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View Full Version : Texans hire Alex Gibbs...promote Shanihan to OC


texanfan2002114
01-08-2008, 11:17 PM
Texans coach Gary Kubiak is trying to hire Alex Gibbs as assistant head coach to replace Mike Sherman.

Gibbs, who would not be the offensive coordinator, was an assistant under head coaches Dan Reeves and Mike Shanahan when Kubiak was a player and assistant coach with the Denver Broncos.

"Alex is one of the best coaches I've ever seen," Kubiak said today. "He raised me as an offensive coordinator with the Broncos. I wouldn't be sitting here today if not for Alex, a coach that showed me a lot of tough love. He taught me so much about the game, and I know what he can do for our team if we're fortunate enough to get him."

Gibbs, who is regarded as one of the best offensive line coaches in NFL history, spent 13 years with the Broncos, including nine (1995-2003) as assistant head coach under Shanahan.

Gibbs was supposed to retire after the 2003 season, but Atlanta coach Jim Mora lured him out of retirement. He was an assistant with the Falcons from 2004-06 before retiring for the second time. He was out of football last season.

Kubiak is looking for an offensive coordinator to replace Sherman, who was assistant head coach/offensive coordinator before Texas A&M hired him as head coach

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5438034.html

AnthonyE
01-08-2008, 11:19 PM
I read this earlier, and if this were to happen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r559C51uE

TexanSam
01-08-2008, 11:20 PM
That's interesting and I'd love for it to happen!

mexican_texan
01-08-2008, 11:31 PM
Didn't we go after him before?

Wolf
01-08-2008, 11:41 PM
I read this earlier, and if this were to happen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r559C51uE

got you beat I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU2yt6wOoK0

texanfan2002114
01-08-2008, 11:43 PM
Didn't we go after him before?

I don't think so. I think what you are remembering is everyone wanted Gibbs here right after the year that Carr took 70 something sacks, so that he could fix the o-line.

I hope they sign him and in my opinion, it would be an upgrade over Sherman as the o-line coach.

mexican_texan
01-08-2008, 11:47 PM
I don't think so. I think what you are remembering is everyone wanted Gibbs here right after the year that Carr took 70 something sacks, so that he could fix the o-line.

I hope they sign him and in my opinion, it would be an upgrade over Sherman as the o-line coach.
He's better than Sherman without a doubt.

awtysst
01-08-2008, 11:56 PM
Not only is he better than Sherman, but he and Kubiack actually speak the same language. Both are Zone blocking scheme guys instead of a zone blocking/power running combo.

AnthonyE
01-09-2008, 12:20 AM
got you beat I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU2yt6wOoK0

rofl, i accept my defeat.

CloakNNNdagger
01-09-2008, 09:02 AM
Not only is he better than Sherman, but he and Kubiack actually speak the same language. Both are Zone blocking scheme guys instead of a zone blocking/power running combo.

Exactly.........an end to the confusing push me pull you dilemma the Texans have been demonstrating.............

badboy
01-09-2008, 09:04 AM
If signed the Oline will probably breathe a sigh of relief.

awtysst
01-09-2008, 09:11 AM
If signed the Oline will probably breathe a sigh of relief.

I think a bigger sigh of relief would come from Schaub.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2008, 09:23 AM
If signed the Oline will probably breathe a sigh of relief.

The good news is that he very much improved the running game in ATL, so the Texans would actually do more running.

The bad news for the line is that there were reports that he was crazed about weight numbers for linemen. After he left, a few of them said that the linemen would do nutty things to make weight because they feared getting their playing time taken away by Gibbs if they didn't make weight. So they would starve themselves before weigh-ins. And then, when they are playing against big d-linemen felt overmatched.

Other reports suggest if a guy can move, then Gibbs doesn't care how much they weigh.

All told, if they can hire him, I think it would be a good move. I also like the idea that he would be an assistant head coach but not the OC, because basically he is on the same page as Kubiak and would be a Kubiak helper. And then if he wants to retire again, it would not be like we would have to get another OC. And anything to help the running game would be a good thing. Gibbs is supposed to be very loud and emphatic during practices, a very good teacher.

Here's my write up: Houston Texans Trying to Lure Alex Gibbs Out of Retirement (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/08/houston-texans-trying-to-lure-alex-gibbs-out-of-retirement/)

Has some links and opinion in it. And I digression about the defensive side of the ball getting some guru attention too.

Mr. White
01-09-2008, 09:25 AM
I'd love to have the guy on board. His success is well-documented.

I cringe to think of what the transition to a real ZBS might be like if they decide to change the scheme.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2008, 09:31 AM
I don't think so. I think what you are remembering is everyone wanted Gibbs here right after the year that Carr took 70 something sacks, so that he could fix the o-line.

I hope they sign him and in my opinion, it would be an upgrade over Sherman as the o-line coach.

Yes, the Texans went after him when he was in ATL. He ended up staying in ATL as a consultant. Then when Mora got canned, that relationship ended because Petrino was going back to a power game. So, Gibbs wasn't in football at all last year.

badboy
01-09-2008, 09:35 AM
A healthy AJ, less QB sacks, a mobile QB and maybe a ground game? Lions, tigers and bears! Oh my. I feel like Dorothy entering the land of make believe. I hope I don't have to wake up in September 08. Now if Oz (Richard Smith)....

Mr. White
01-09-2008, 09:38 AM
The bad news for the line is that there were reports that he was crazed about weight numbers for linemen.

When Kubes took over, there was little doubt that this would be a ZBS offense. I remember a Chester Pitts interview on 610 a couple of years ago and all the talk was about how Kubiak had all of them on diets so they could be effective zone blockers.

Somewhere along the line, Mike Sherman mentioned that they also use his own power-blocking scheme. Then it seems like that's all they use, despite the media saying otherwise.

Like I said further up the thread....if Gibbs comes in and changes the system, it ain't gonna be pretty.

Wolf
01-09-2008, 09:46 AM
Not only is he better than Sherman, but he and Kubiack actually speak the same language. Both are Zone blocking scheme guys instead of a zone blocking/power running combo.

true, and got me thinking, did a search and not sure how accurate but a writeup on ZBS and PBS
http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/blogs/25768-o-line-schemes-zone-blocking-vs-drive-blocking.html

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/03/31/ramblings/stat-analysis/2484/

HoustonFrog
01-09-2008, 10:31 AM
This is the part I love..heard on the radio this morning and was in papers

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5439213.html

In Gibbs' 13 seasons with the Broncos all with Kubiak as a backup quarterback and offensive coordinator Denver averaged fewer than 115 yards rushing once. They averaged at least 124 yards nine times.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2008, 10:43 AM
When Kubes took over, there was little doubt that this would be a ZBS offense. I remember a Chester Pitts interview on 610 a couple of years ago and all the talk was about how Kubiak had all of them on diets so they could be effective zone blockers.

Somewhere along the line, Mike Sherman mentioned that they also use his own power-blocking scheme. Then it seems like that's all they use, despite the media saying otherwise.

Like I said further up the thread....if Gibbs comes in and changes the system, it ain't gonna be pretty.

When Kubiak first took over, they were fined per pound for not making weight. The most effective looking blocker that year was Charles Spencer, the only guy who didn't make the weight requirements. Spencer, as I understood how things went, was a Mike Sherman pick.

I'm not sure that it would be too ugly changing the system as there is some familiarity with it already. I worry about what the Texans could do at center though as Flanagan seemed to struggle with the ZBS and McKinney is coming off of knee surgery.

ATL didn't seem to have many transitional issues with improving their running game. And the best years at Denver offensively were ones where Gibbs was with them.

tulexan
01-09-2008, 10:54 AM
When Kubiak first took over, they were fined per pound for not making weight. The most effective looking blocker that year was Charles Spencer, the only guy who didn't make the weight requirements. Spencer, as I understood how things went, was a Mike Sherman pick.

I'm not sure that it would be too ugly changing the system as there is some familiarity with it already. I worry about what the Texans could do at center though as Flanagan seemed to struggle with the ZBS and McKinney is coming off of knee surgery.

ATL didn't seem to have many transitional issues with improving their running game. And the best years at Denver offensively were ones where Gibbs was with them.

Interesting that we brought Eslinger in at the end of the season, a former Bronco C who has experience in the ZBS.

infantrycak
01-09-2008, 11:03 AM
When Kubiak first took over, they were fined per pound for not making weight.

Weird conflicting info. I know you got that directly from someone with the team, but Chester Pitts on 610 am one time said he was never given a specific weight he had to reach or be fined.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2008, 11:29 AM
Weird conflicting info. I know you got that directly from someone with the team, but Chester Pitts on 610 am one time said he was never given a specific weight he had to reach or be fined.

Yeah, McKinney downplayed the weight thing too when Kubiak first came over.

I heard it from a couple sources with the team.

Maybe it only applied to a few guys on the line.

Texans Pride
01-09-2008, 11:32 AM
Well its about time. . . I have been screaming for this since last year when Mora was fired from Atlanta! I called it a year ago...I was just a bit off on my timing!

last years thread:
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33779

Joe Texan
01-09-2008, 11:35 AM
This will be Sage and Mats song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSV1URdtgTc

Silver Oak
01-09-2008, 11:56 AM
This will be Sage and Mats song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSV1URdtgTc


I challenge anyone to watch that video and not find yourself humming along.

nunusguy
01-09-2008, 12:31 PM
Interesting that we brought Eslinger in at the end of the season, a former Bronco C who has experience in the ZBS.
A clear indication that Smith is signing ZB lineman because Kubiak wants to go that way, and with the latest move on Gibbs it clinches it that's his very strong preference. Now of course he may not end up getting Gibbs and have
to compromise with the schemes that a different OC might prefer, like with
Sherman.

drewmar74
01-09-2008, 12:48 PM
A clear indication that Smith is signing ZB lineman because Kubiak wants to go that way, and with the latest move on Gibbs it clinches it that's his very strong preference. Now of course he may not end up getting Gibbs and have
to compromise with the schemes that a different OC might prefer, like with
Sherman.

DON'T SAY THAT! HE'S COMING! HE ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY HAS TO SIGN ON!

Seriously, I said more than once this year that the O-line just looked like the lacked a mean streak. I'm hoping that Gibbs can help get them that inherent nastiness that I think you need to play in the trenches.

b0ng
01-09-2008, 12:48 PM
To me this just indicates that Kubiak is moving away from a hybrid system that we were using earlier this year. I know Spencer doesn't fit the mold of ZBS guy, but I'm sure having one 340 lb offensive lineman will be good.

I think we are going to see a lot more of the Denver system next year, especially if we are able to land Alex Gibbs. Either way, these developments do not concern me, which is good!

I don't remember offseasons being anything bug a rollercoaster when the former regime was in charge. Is my memory being selective again?

Hardcore Texan
01-09-2008, 01:10 PM
Not only does this thread have a lot of good discussion and content, but the proper timing and use of youtube videos really push it into that upper echelon of oustanding. :)

sakebomb
01-09-2008, 01:13 PM
I agree. Any thread that uses YOU TUBE links definitely rocks.

beerlover
01-09-2008, 01:17 PM
I know I'm in the minority but I thought for the first time in Texans history the team, including the offensive line was coached up & played as well as possible given the talent, injurys & experience levels.

Regarding Gibbs if thats who Kubiak wants & it helps improve continuity its a no brainer :cool:

badboy
01-09-2008, 01:26 PM
DON'T SAY THAT! HE'S COMING! HE ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY HAS TO SIGN ON!

Seriously, I said more than once this year that the O-line just looked like the lacked a mean streak. I'm hoping that Gibbs can help get them that inherent nastiness that I think you need to play in the trenches.Kasey Studdard and my hopeful LT Alex Boone have a streak of nastiness and could benefit. See my thread BOONE, BOONE, BOONE! for recent Sports Illustrated article on Ohio State LT that looked good in Ohio State's recent loss to LSU.

drewmar74
01-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Kasey Studdard and my hopeful LT Alex Boone have a streak of nastiness and could benefit. See my thread BOONE, BOONE, BOONE! for recent Sports Illustrated article on Ohio State LT that looked good in Ohio State's recent loss to LSU.

I'll go check it out. I recall reading about Studdard playing with a bit of a chip on his shoulder but he saw such limited action that it was hard to get a feel for his motor.

Specnatz
01-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Not to throw ice water on everyone, but I have a question. Joe Gibbs is leaving the Redskins mainly for family reasons, I have heard one of the grand kids has luekemia. Should I infer that it is not one of Alex's children?

Errant Hothy
01-09-2008, 01:47 PM
Not to throw ice water on everyone, but I have a question. Joe Gibbs is leaving the Redskins mainly for family reasons, I have heard one of the grand kids has luekemia. Should I infer that it is not one of Alex's children?

There is no relation between Joe's and Alex's families.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2008, 02:09 PM
DON'T SAY THAT! HE'S COMING! HE ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY HAS TO SIGN ON!

Seriously, I said more than once this year that the O-line just looked like the lacked a mean streak. I'm hoping that Gibbs can help get them that inherent nastiness that I think you need to play in the trenches.

Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2008, 02:13 PM
Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.

Don't tease me like this.

Just.

Don't.

Do.

It.

eriadoc
01-09-2008, 02:15 PM
All I have done for years now is preach O-line. An Alex Gibbs hire would make me the happiest with the Texans that I have been since 19-10.

dtran04
01-09-2008, 02:17 PM
This hire would be the best move this entire offseason, short of aquiring Tom Brady. LOL

drewmar74
01-09-2008, 02:20 PM
Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.

WOOT! WOOT!

HOU-TEX
01-09-2008, 02:21 PM
Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this stand for? I'd like to check it out if allowed. I've seen you mention it before, but now I'm curious. :cool:

HJam72
01-09-2008, 02:23 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what does this stand for? I'd like to check it out if allowed. I've seen you mention it before, but now I'm curious. :cool:

I'm pretty sure it's something naughty. Kubes is a wild guy. :elle:

dtran04
01-09-2008, 02:26 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what does this stand for? I'd like to check it out if allowed. I've seen you mention it before, but now I'm curious. :cool:


It's a comment here.

http://www.atexansblog.com/2008/01/07/super/#comments

Errant Hothy
01-09-2008, 02:34 PM
Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.

Add to that one of McClain's comments in his latest blog:
{Scott, I think Gibbs is coming, and the deal will be done soon. -- JOHN}

steelbtexan
01-09-2008, 02:34 PM
Better late than never

Tulip
01-09-2008, 02:35 PM
It's done. Gibbs is hired and Shanahanigans Jr is promoted.

Story at Chron.

drewmar74
01-09-2008, 02:36 PM
It's done. Gibbs is hired and Shanahanigans Jr is promoted.

Story at Chron.

*shakin' booty*

WOOT WOOT

*shakin' booty*

WOOT WOOT

badboy
01-09-2008, 02:37 PM
Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.At least these comments get to where I can see and enjoy them.

dtran04
01-09-2008, 02:38 PM
I guess persuading Gibbs to come here wasn't too difficult.

santo
01-09-2008, 02:39 PM
:fans: :fans: :fans: :fans: :fans:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5440572.html

badboy
01-09-2008, 02:47 PM
Just curious as to why is not more being said about Chick Harris RB coach? O line coach is mentioned. O co-ordinator mentioned...

CoastalTexan
01-09-2008, 02:53 PM
Very Nice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j9QeUoPOi4&feature=related

infantrycak
01-09-2008, 03:00 PM
So much for Second Honeymoon's theory that they won't go after top guys.

Second Honeymoon
01-09-2008, 03:18 PM
So much for Second Honeymoon's theory that they won't go after top guys.

not a theory. merely an observation that we have had a 2nd rate coaching staff since Kubes got here and an unwillingness to bring in any top guys for top $$. Its not all Bob and Gary's fault that the staff has been below average but this move means they realize that we need better coaching and they are taking steps to address us (obviously I wasn't the only one who thought their coaching staff needed help...Gary, RS, and Bob felt the same way obviously...maybe i wasn't so crazy after all). they still need to upgrade other parts of their coaching staff (new DC anyone?)

but hiring Gibbs goes a long way towards improving the overall caliber of the staff...

get us a new DC and let Kubes and Shanahan coordinate the offense, and we would have taken big steps towards making our coaching staff respectable.

I think McNair is realizing that hiring top coaches is a tool that the more prosperous owners have access to. Hopefully he keeps it up and continues to upgrade what has been a pretty lackluster staff. Now they have proven they can hire, but can they fire? as in Fire Richard Smith. if they do and replace him with a qualified and skilled DC, we could be in for great things in 08.

i dont drink the koolaid and it still seems like my feelings are pretty much in line with the organization though it seems to take the franchise a little longer to get the picture. I just want more proactive moves and less reactive. I don't mind labeled a cynic or pessimist because I feel I know what this team needs and wont let bias or homering influence my opinion. Villify me if you must, icak.

HOU-TEX
01-09-2008, 03:28 PM
not a theory. merely an observation that we have had a 2nd rate coaching staff since Kubes got here and an unwillingness to bring in any top guys for top $$. Its not all Bob and Gary's fault that the staff has been below average but this move means they realize that we need better coaching and they are taking steps to address us (obviously I wasn't the only one who thought their coaching staff needed help...Gary, RS, and Bob felt the same way obviously...maybe i wasn't so crazy after all). they still need to upgrade other parts of their coaching staff (new DC anyone?)

but hiring Gibbs goes a long way towards improving the overall caliber of the staff...

get us a new DC and let Kubes and Shanahan coordinate the offense, and we would have take big steps towards making our coaching staff respectable.

I think McNair is realizing that hiring top coaches is a tool that the more prosperous owners have access to. Hopefully he keeps it up and continues to upgrade what has been a pretty lackluster staff. Now they have proven they can hire, but can they fire? as in Fire Richard Smith. if they do and replace him with a qualified and skilled DC, we could be in for great things in 08.

i dont drink the koolaid and it still seems like my feelings are pretty much in line with the organization though it seems to take the franchise a little longer to get the picture. I just want more proactive moves and less reactive.

I honestly doubt McNair had anything to do with this hiring or any other hiring/signing that has or will take place.

But hey, believe what you want. :specnatz:

Specnatz
01-09-2008, 03:31 PM
I honestly doubt McNair had anything to do with this hiring or any other hiring/signing that has or will take place.

But hey, believe what you want. :specnatz:

Nope you are 100% wrong.

McNair went to Kubiak and Smith and told them who to hire regardless if it was a good fit for the coaching staff. now luckily it is a good move for the staff butt without McNair telling Smith and kubiak who to hire we would have gone into next season without a coach.

threetoedpete
01-09-2008, 03:35 PM
So much for Second Honeymoon's theory that they won't go after top guys.

funny that seems to be a reoccouring theme.

HOU-TEX
01-09-2008, 03:37 PM
Nope you are 100% wrong.

McNair went to Kubiak and Smith and told them who to hire regardless if it was a good fit for the coaching staff. now luckily it is a good move for the staff butt without McNair telling Smith and kubiak who to hire we would have gone into next season without a coach.

Spec, I hope you're being sarcastic here.:thinking:

nunusguy
01-09-2008, 03:42 PM
Rejoice all ye ZB offensive linemen ! Employment opportunities are coming to
Houston.

TexanSam
01-09-2008, 03:43 PM
Matt at DGDB&D has a commenter who said he works at a restaurant where Kubiak, Gibbs and Smith met. Kubiak had a big smile on his face.

See, now this thread is nearly complete. YouTubes and blog gossip comments.

Maybe Kubiak just finished eating a nice, juicy steak

Second Honeymoon
01-09-2008, 03:44 PM
I honestly doubt McNair had anything to do with this hiring or any other hiring/signing that has or will take place.

But hey, believe what you want. :specnatz:

he may not have had a hand in choosing Gibbs or soliciting him to talk to us, but I would imagine at some point he had to give the move the 'green light'.

i am just trying to give McNair some credit for showing more of a willingness to spend some money on coaching. granted, Sherman and Gibbs salaries should nearly cancel each others out so its not really much more money out of pocket but that doesnt matter to me. They didn't stay the course or attempt to delegate. They went out and got a top guy and arguably upgraded over Sherman (who did a great job with our OL especially). It shows that they arent satisfied with par for the course.

Now get one of the Ryan brothers, Gregg Williams, or Rivera and I would be blown away. That would be a top staff. With Marciano, it would be a very highly regarded staff across the top of the board.

Thorn
01-09-2008, 03:44 PM
Well, whomever told who to hire whom is fine with me, as the little reading I've done so far on this seems to indicate this is a good move.

infantrycak
01-09-2008, 03:48 PM
(obviously I wasn't the only one who thought their coaching staff needed help...Gary, RS, and Bob felt the same way obviously...maybe i wasn't so crazy after all).

Hellllooooooo--the assistant head coach/OC left to take another job. Gary, RS and Bob didn't do anything to initiate that.

PapaL
01-09-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm Giddy in anticipation. Is it next year yet?

Corrosion
01-09-2008, 03:55 PM
I know I'm in the minority but I thought for the first time in Texans history the team, including the offensive line was coached up & played as well as possible given the talent, injurys & experience levels.

Regarding Gibbs if thats who Kubiak wants & it helps improve continuity its a no brainer :cool:

I have to agree with that statement . At the begining of the season I dont think we expected the OL to play as well as they did . Pass protection was not stellar but wasnt as bad as in previous years (credit Schaub and Rosenfels or the OL ?) But I didnt see much if any progress in run blocking . (Credit the backs ? or the OL with this ?). In fact the numbers say they were worse .

They gave up a total of 22 sacks this season , A lot of that improvement I have to attribute to the guy's playing the QB position . They didnt sack themselves and in general got the ball out quickly (who woulda thunk it?!) Last season they had 43 sacks ..... thats almost a 50% reduction .

As for the running game . In 06 they had a total of 1,687 rushing yards . An avg of 3.9 per carry and 105.4 yards per game . In 07 1,586 rushing yards . An avg of 3.8 and 99.1 yards per game . (Blame it on the loss of Ahman Green if you like but he didnt produce any better than the other backs on the roster, just go check the game logs and compare his carries to those of Dayne and Co.)

Hiring Gibbs will be a good move , no doubt . But the fact is that this team lacks TALENT along the OL and until they get better here we will likely see the same results no matter who is coaching them . Talent is the one thing you cant teach .

beerlover
01-09-2008, 04:02 PM
I wonder what if any impact Gibbs hiring will have on personel decisions, retaining players servies, free agents & draft prospects? he might be on a fast track to the film room reviewing players ability to run his zbs. :beer:

Second Honeymoon
01-09-2008, 04:03 PM
Hellllooooooo--the assistant head coach/OC left to take another job. Gary, RS and Bob didn't do anything to initiate that.

but they didnt stay the course, promote from within or delegate. they went out and got some help. Kubes could have wanted to take over the playcalling duties. Who knows. Hiring Gibbs cancels losing Sherm out so we don't take any steps back in regards to coaching. Now if they can improve our defensive coordinator situation, we would be sitting really pretty.

icak, do you think having Richard Smith as our DC gives us our best chance at winning in 2008?

threetoedpete
01-09-2008, 04:04 PM
Rejoice all ye ZB offensive linemen ! Employment opportunities are coming to
Houston.

Coach Dent 11/27/06

I think I can offer up some observations about the zone scheme. I coached for several year on the college level and currently use the zone run game in our system on the high school level in Delaware. We are the only team that blocks zone.

First of all, there are different factions of zone and different followers of concepts within the zone run game. The Texans violate some of my basic premises for zone. I am not alone in this thinking either.

Namely, the Texans do not run true zone. Zone coaches are split as to the use of the fullback, but most...and especially in the NFL... do not believe that you can truly run zone using a fullback. Why?

#1 - Zone is a concept where you are trying to get the defense to run. More specifically, you are trying to get linebackers to run. They overrun or underpersue a hole and the running back "punches it" into the hole. When you introduce the fullback, it no longer becomes a zone, it becomes an ISO play where the fullback leads up onto a linebacker at the Point Of Attack (POA). This declares where you are running the ball and destroys cutbacks and removes the mystery as to where you are hitting the hole.

#2 - The NFL produces extremely violent collisions. The result is, you don't see too many fullbacks surviving a full year in the NFL or being very effective. With the fullback at 3-4 yards and the linebacker at 3-4 yards, you are looking at two Mack trucks colliding at full speed. MOST times, the defense wins. With us not having a Mack truck and instead, a Suzuki Sidekick, you can imagine the collisions are definitely not to our liking. As a result, many teams in the NFL employ an H back or a tight end who moves along the line. Because he is at the line of scrimmage, he can get to the linebacker sooner and the collision is not as traumatic.

#3 - With the H back, you have the ability to create a double team at the point of attack, especially on the outside; which is what many people were expressing frustration over. Zone blocking is all about creating a double team at the POA. Over the seven years I have been coaching at the smallest school in the best conference in the state, we have had a grand total of 4 zone plays that have gone for negative yards. The problem with a fullback is that he is a single block for the linebacker, but it also creates a single block for the tight end or the tackle to the side he is going to. So now Daniels is singled up on a superior athletic defensive end and he can't handle it.

Watch a bunch of NFL games this weekend and watch when teams run the stretch play. The number one penalty called on that play is holding on the tight end or the tackle to the playside. It is a difficult block and when the tackle or tight end is singled up, you can basically write it down as a no gain play or a hold.

- - - - - - - -
The coaches who I deal with on the college and pro level believe in a three tiered zone concept scheme. That is, that you MUST run ALL THREE phases of the zone to be successful. The Texans do not. They run outside zone (which again, is not outside zone in my opinion with the FB). They also run what is referred to as Middle Zone that hits in between the guard and tackle. They do not run the inside zone. They actually tried to run a version of it for the first time all year on the play where Cook went left and the running back went right. The RB then cut it back to the left (inside zone is essentially a designed cutback play). Cook missed the block on the backside and the play went for nada.

The zone play creates the SAME look for the offensive line and running backs every week against every team. It is the entire offensive line working in unison along with the RB. They step the same way with what is called a weight adjustment step. When they take this step, and you stop the film, and the team runs all three phases of the zone...then you cannot tell if the ball is going to be stretch and go outside to the tackle area and bounce, or to the guard tackle area, or to the backside cutback. The linebackers MUST stay and slow read the play. This means the linemen can keep their shoulders square to the line of scrimmage and double team at the point of attack.

The object for the linemen is twofold. One create a wall of humanity and no runthrough lanes for the linebackers. The second is to take their double teams right into the laps of the linebackers. We call it, securing the first level and then going for gold on the second level. By running it the same way and threatening the entire front, the Raven linebackers will be in the same place as the Raider linebackers. If the linebackers get frisky and try to runthrough, they are always wrong and create a running lane for the back.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Those of you still with me.....

The problem with the Texan backs is that their zone steps are horrific. They do not take effective zone steps and they define the hole they are going to run to too quickly. Our backs are told to STAY ON TRACK for three steps. They are on railroad tracks, pushing thier aiming point. This sets up the blocks and secures the double teams. If the guard and center are doubleteaming up to the linebacker and the running back just starts turning his shoulders and running to the sidelines, then the linebacker will fly across and the guard will not be able to get up for the double team. This means the backer is unblocked. In the Texan scheme, this problem is further complicated by their "man concept" in the zone. Presnap, the Texan linemen are defining who they are going to block. What happens now, is the guard will not help the center and will immediately go up for the backer. When he does, he has made a number of mistakes. First, he has left the double team and the center has a nearly impossible block to make on the DT. The DT runs the line and kills cutbacks. Secondly, the guard has created a break in the line which encourages runthroughs by the backside linebacker who is taught to flow to the ball and, if he can, run underneath the blockers and behind the play and chase it down. Both of which happen all too frequently with the Texans.

- - - - - - - -
You do not need to have "small, quick linemen" to run zone. As a matter of fact, it works better when you have some beef upfront because you are moving the defensive line two and three yards forward and gaining positive yards. The smaller quicker linemen in Denver also called for the need for the backside cutblocks that so many defensive linemen scream about to the league. Oddly enough, I do not recall any linemen for the Texans cutting anyone on the backside ala Denver. I haven't necessarily been looking, but I haven't seen it. Done correctly, there is nothing cheap about it. But one of the reasons the Denver linemen did it is because they couldn't block the defender with their strength, so they would submarine them on the backside and cut their legs out. Generally this happens at the knee and sometimes (in Denver's case) it happens behind the knee. Some coaches actually refer to the technique as "break his knee". We refer to it as "driving your shoulder pad through his thigh board". But ultimately, it is the same concept.

By knocking down the backside, you create cutback lanes.

-- - - - - - - -
LASTLY!! And believe me, I could talk about zone all night long! And have at clincs!

There needs to be a CWM principle in place. This is "Check with Me". When my QBs go to the line, they are taught where we need to run the ball for each zone play. For instance, when we run middle zone, we run it to the 1 technique. This is the defensive linemen who is shaded to the inside shoulder of either guard. We run the ball to this technique because it creates a double team with the guard and center and it is an easy block right at the point of attack. We have NEVER lost yards on Middle zone!

The Texan PROBLEM with thier zone is that they do NOT use a CWM system. They espouse to the system of running zone to either side regardless of technique. This, in my opinion, is flat out wrong. Using the example above. If you run middle zone AWAY from the 1 technique, then that means you are running it TO a 3 technique. This means that the center is working with the other guard on a double team to the linebacker. But this NEVER happens because the guard will ALWAYS stay with the DT and the center will ALWAYS go to the linbebacker. Neither has help. You are running the football now to a side with two single blocks at the point of attack. Not zone in my book.

I think the Texans have moved away from the CWM principle during the season. Because they most certainly used it in preseason. I was extremely excited when I saw them against KC in the opening preseason game. Carr got them into the right run play and they ran the zone to perfection. Then as we got closer to and enventually into the season that went away.

Feel free to email me with any questions. Thanks for reading and hope this cleared up some questions folks were having!
__________________
The World IS a better place, now that Vonta Leach has permanently taken Jamel Cook's place!
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austintexanite
01-09-2008, 04:05 PM
Now get one of the Ryan brothers, Gregg Williams, or Rivera and I would be blown away. That would be a top staff. With Marciano, it would be a very highly regarded staff across the top of the board.

I would love to get one of the Ryan twins. All four of those guys love to have th qb tasting the dirt. I was and still am hoping that they interview one of them. Great job on hiring Gibbs, I truly can't wait for next year. :fans: :fans: :fans:

threetoedpete
01-09-2008, 04:09 PM
but they didnt stay the course, promote from within or delegate. they went out and got some help. Kubes could have wanted to take over the playcalling duties. Who knows. Hiring Gibbs cancels losing Sherm out so we don't take any steps back in regards to coaching. Now if they can improve our defensive coordinator situation, we would be sitting really pretty.

icak, do you think having Richard Smith as our DC gives us our best chance at winning in 2008?

in a word yes. Unless they are switching defenes again the only thing Smith needs is a little more umph from the tallent. Ain't got it. Go get it. Dansby would help. Cover corner would help. Better rush DE would help. I think he got the best the guys he had had to offer. Waiting for kubes to throw him under the bus like you said he would two weeks ago.

infantrycak
01-09-2008, 04:18 PM
icak, do you think having Richard Smith as our DC gives us our best chance at winning in 2008?

Compared to whom that we can realistically hire?

Frankly I don't know about Smith. I think he doesn't believe he has the personnel to be as aggressive as he wants. If we had two solid CB's I think you would see a lot more aggressive defensive play calling. Signing a more athletic SLB like Karlos Dansby would also allow more aggressive play calling.

Joe Texan
01-09-2008, 04:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-NLlwzfOM

AnthonyE
01-09-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm Giddy in anticipation. Is it next year yet?

Oooh! Not yet! Only 244 days left!

Double Barrel
01-09-2008, 04:47 PM
All I have done for years now is preach O-line. An Alex Gibbs hire would make me the happiest with the Texans that I have been since 19-10.


Word up! No doubt about it, this hire is most excellent! :doot: :texflag:

Porky
01-09-2008, 04:50 PM
Great move by Kubes and company. Congrats to all!

adam
01-09-2008, 05:00 PM
Hell of a good move, next season keeps looking better and better.

Second Honeymoon
01-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Compared to whom that we can realistically hire?

Frankly I don't know about Smith. I think he doesn't believe he has the personnel to be as aggressive as he wants. If we had two solid CB's I think you would see a lot more aggressive defensive play calling. Signing a more athletic SLB like Karlos Dansby would also allow more aggressive play calling.

how many NFL teams have two solid CBs? very few, some don't even have one solid CB. that just doesnt hold water. if your DBs are having trouble covering their men, you have to be aggressive and force the QB to get rid of it before the DBs get worked over. The guy just isn't getting it done and there are guys out there that I feel we could get if we just do it and stop pussyfooting around. Does anyone think that Richard Smith is going to lead our defense to a championship level? Isn't that what you aim for? If he isn't that guy then get a guy who could be.

The defense just needs fixing and I don't see talent as being the problem as much as the scheme and mentality of our soft defensive gameplans. We make backups look like All-Pros and we get slaughtered anytime we actually have to face a good QB or an important game like the Browns game. If someone isnt getting the job done, get someone who can. That is all i am saying. Richard Smith has failed to produce a quality defense after 2 years. Change is good.

texasguy346
01-09-2008, 05:10 PM
Great hire by the Texans. Luring Gibbs out of retirement is going to pay off for the Texans in 2008 & beyond.

infantrycak
01-09-2008, 05:17 PM
how many NFL teams have two solid CBs? very few, some don't even have one solid CB. that just doesnt hold water.

I am talking about solid in the sense that they are closer to being able to start for multiple teams in the league than they are to their couch. We had a rookie and a bunch of guys who are lucky to be playing.

badboy
01-09-2008, 05:24 PM
Hark the harold angels sing...oops almost got carried away. Back tomorrow.

MightyTExan
01-09-2008, 05:32 PM
Sooooooo........

Who coaches the QB's now? :backsout:

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2008, 05:37 PM
One of the things I like about this is that I think it's going to make some offensive linemen want to come here to play.

I'm so psyched.

Line_Producer
01-09-2008, 05:43 PM
Ahem...allow me.


PEANUT BUTTER, JELLY TIME!:splits:

PEANUT BUTTER, JELLY TIME!:splits:

Second Honeymoon
01-09-2008, 05:46 PM
I am talking about solid in the sense that they are closer to being able to start for multiple teams in the league than they are to their couch. We had a rookie and a bunch of guys who are lucky to be playing.

ok, i get what you are saying then. i just feel if your secondary is suspect, you have to take chances and disrupt the QBs rhythym. its a difference in philosophy and we know his way isn't working so why not try being aggressive?

Fox
01-09-2008, 05:47 PM
Great move with Gibbs, this is one of those acquisitions that the fans on the MB's have been clamoring for for years.

Shanahan to OC, not a big deal. Kubiak primarily oversees the offense and does that pretty well, great opportunity for Shanahan to advance his career but shouldn't change our offense much if at all.

Richard Smith I'm torn on. For some small stretches of games our defense looks fearsome, some stretches we bend but don't break, and for big stretches we just break. He doesn't have a ton of talent to work with (especially in the secondary) but if you read the national opinions about our team we're considered to have more than our fair share of young studs manning the D (MW, AO, TJ, Ryans, DRob, now Bennett). One of my least favorite things about Smith is that his D gives up enormous games to lackluster offenses at times, and consistently gets slapped around by the good ones. The problem is with all of these young players on defense and all the change that's going on there, bringing in a new DC might actually bring that unit a step backwards. Just look at Denver, they bring in the big name DC last year in Bates, and they suck it up this year. Big names do not guarantee success. At this point I say hold on to Smith, get him some more players in the secondary, and potentially allow Bush to have a bigger hand in the grand scheme of things to freshen things up.

tulexan
01-09-2008, 05:47 PM
One of the things I like about this is that I think it's going to make some offensive linemen want to come here to play.

I'm so psyched.

Not only that, but running backs too.

76Texan
01-09-2008, 05:58 PM
Interesting that we brought Eslinger in at the end of the season, a former Bronco C who has experience in the ZBS.
I believe the Golphers of U Minnesota was running a version of ZBS during his days, but they also employed man at times.
That is another reason why I said I like Eslinger.

hookinreds
01-09-2008, 06:05 PM
Outstanding!!!!

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2008, 06:08 PM
Pete, that was one hell of a post last page. I played TE and a little bit of H-back in a ZBS in HS for 4 years and I never got it explained like that. Yeah, we had clinics and film sessions, but to break it down like that is remarkable. We also called it "rail blocking". All of the linemen and TE would power step or rail block left or right depending on the call. We ran a CWM offense as well, and the call was made at the line.

For example, when we were running middle zone left, rail left...the line would step hard left with a DT usually lined up in the 1 technique as he said. We were actually told to widen our gaps to encourage a DT to shoot a particular hole. Anyways, the LG would rail block left into the RDT in the 1 technique. His objective was to turn the DT's shoulders and allow for the C to take over the double team as the RB was about to hit the hole while the LG would continue on his "rail" to the left, engaging with a LB attempting to either fill the hole or flow to the ball. If the block was made at the second level, it created an easy and obvious cutback lane for the RB. It was like an easy 12 yards. If the LB was able to shed the LG block before the RB passed, it was still a 5 yard gain. Sure, the play in theory failed, but it was still a 5 yard run on a "failed" play. That is the beauty of a true ZBS. I as well could talk about principles and assignments for hours.

76Texan
01-09-2008, 06:23 PM
I have to agree with that statement . At the begining of the season I dont think we expected the OL to play as well as they did . Pass protection was not stellar but wasnt as bad as in previous years (credit Schaub and Rosenfels or the OL ?) But I didnt see much if any progress in run blocking . (Credit the backs ? or the OL with this ?). In fact the numbers say they were worse .

They gave up a total of 22 sacks this season , A lot of that improvement I have to attribute to the guy's playing the QB position . They didnt sack themselves and in general got the ball out quickly (who woulda thunk it?!) Last season they had 43 sacks ..... thats almost a 50% reduction .

As for the running game . In 06 they had a total of 1,687 rushing yards . An avg of 3.9 per carry and 105.4 yards per game . In 07 1,586 rushing yards . An avg of 3.8 and 99.1 yards per game . (Blame it on the loss of Ahman Green if you like but he didnt produce any better than the other backs on the roster, just go check the game logs and compare his carries to those of Dayne and Co.)

Hiring Gibbs will be a good move , no doubt . But the fact is that this team lacks TALENT along the OL and until they get better here we will likely see the same results no matter who is coaching them . Talent is the one thing you cant teach .We will have the off-season to exchange ideas about this as well as many other subjects.

76Texan
01-09-2008, 06:27 PM
Pete, that was one hell of a post last page. I played TE and a little bit of H-back in a ZBS in HS for 4 years and I never got it explained like that. Yeah, we had clinics and film sessions, but to break it down like that is remarkable. We also called it "rail blocking". All of the linemen and TE would power step or rail block left or right depending on the call. We ran a CWM offense as well, and the call was made at the line.

For example, when we were running middle zone left, rail left...the line would step hard left with a DT usually lined up in the 1 technique as he said. We were actually told to widen our gaps to encourage a DT to shoot a particular hole. Anyways, the LG would rail block left into the RDT in the 1 technique. His objective was to turn the DT's shoulders and allow for the C to take over the double team as the RB was about to hit the hole while the LG would continue on his "rail" to the left, engaging with a LB attempting to either fill the hole or flow to the ball. If the block was made at the second level, it created an easy and obvious cutback lane for the RB. It was like an easy 12 yards. If the LB was able to shed the LG block before the RB passed, it was still a 5 yard gain. Sure, the play in theory failed, but it was still a 5 yard run on a "failed" play. That is the beauty of a true ZBS. I as well could talk about principles and assignments for hours.
One of quite a few references I've read today that I'd like to bookmark and come back to during the off-season.

Some conflicting ideas among the authors, who are all football coaches (or maybe my understanding of the concept is not quite clear.http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif )

drewmar74
01-09-2008, 06:29 PM
Sooooooo........

Who coaches the QB's now? :backsout:

My money is on Akili Smith or Todd Marinovich.

TheRealJoker
01-09-2008, 06:41 PM
Getting Alex Gibbs will help our OL more than any single player we sign this offseason!!!

steelbtexan
01-09-2008, 06:48 PM
Coach Dent 11/27/06

Pete
What do we need to fix the o-line? More talent @ LT & C or is there enough talent but we just need to get on the same page? If it is the latter I'm sure coach Gibbs will fix that. How do you feel Pitts will take to coach Gibbs? He isn't the most intense guy. Where does Mckinney fit in the ZBS? Is he atheletic enough to fit in?

Leahmic223
01-09-2008, 07:02 PM
Alex Gibbs....Championship!

:splits:

Double Barrel
01-09-2008, 07:13 PM
Pete, that was one hell of a post last page.

Pete was quoting another poster. Unfortunately, Coach Dent has not been around the forum since April 2007. He might not have made the move to TexansTalk or perhaps did not realize the change-over.

WesmanTexanfan
01-09-2008, 07:23 PM
That's interesting and I'd love for it to happen!

yes, me too, we neeeeeeeed a great O line coach, that would be sweeeeeeeeeet if we land him

76Texan
01-09-2008, 07:24 PM
Pete was quoting another poster. Unfortunately, Coach Dent has not been around the forum since April 2007. He might not have made the move to TexansTalk or perhaps did not realize the change-over.

I have read his posts before, on those occasions I visited the main board.
Still have lingering questions for him, if only I can remember what they were. :thinking:

CloakNNNdagger
01-09-2008, 07:39 PM
I think we'll now see the return of the H-back.:superman:

76Texan
01-09-2008, 07:43 PM
I think we'll now see the return of the H-back.:superman:

If I'm not mistaken, I've seen our TE line up at H-back.

TexansFanatic
01-09-2008, 07:53 PM
yes, me too, we neeeeeeeed a great O line coach, that would be sweeeeeeeeeet if we land him

What's this "if" business. It's a done deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3189246

Hardcore Texan
01-09-2008, 08:00 PM
This is really good news, Gibbs can do serious wonders for our run game.

Mini-Shanny must have quite the talent, he's on the fastrack, probably watched his dad coach since he was in diapers.

I don't guess we are getting a new DC, seems like only the fans think it is him?

michaelm
01-09-2008, 08:00 PM
I think we'll now see the return of the H-back.:superman:

Makes me wonder what changes might come at the fullback position, and especially if or how it affects Leach. Also, how does Breuner fit into the H-back situation, if at all..? I don't know enough about the position, but I seem to recall it being more similar to a tight end type guy than a fullback. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2008, 08:02 PM
Great move with Gibbs, this is one of those acquisitions that the fans on the MB's have been clamoring for for years.

Shanahan to OC, not a big deal. Kubiak primarily oversees the offense and does that pretty well, great opportunity for Shanahan to advance his career but shouldn't change our offense much if at all.

Richard Smith I'm torn on. For some small stretches of games our defense looks fearsome, some stretches we bend but don't break, and for big stretches we just break. He doesn't have a ton of talent to work with (especially in the secondary) but if you read the national opinions about our team we're considered to have more than our fair share of young studs manning the D (MW, AO, TJ, Ryans, DRob, now Bennett). One of my least favorite things about Smith is that his D gives up enormous games to lackluster offenses at times, and consistently gets slapped around by the good ones. The problem is with all of these young players on defense and all the change that's going on there, bringing in a new DC might actually bring that unit a step backwards. Just look at Denver, they bring in the big name DC last year in Bates, and they suck it up this year. Big names do not guarantee success. At this point I say hold on to Smith, get him some more players in the secondary, and potentially allow Bush to have a bigger hand in the grand scheme of things to freshen things up.

A couple of thoughts about today's hiring.

Two great things about this move:

1. It shows that Kubiak isn't all about him. That if he can find someone who he thinks will help, he is more the merrier. The former Denver hires on the staff have been the strongest parts of the offense.

2. It is a good thing for Shanny the younger. I was uncertain about him coming to the Texans until I heard him speak at a coaching clinic. You completely forget how old he is. He is very impressive talking football.

One of the best things at the coaching clinic he talked about was how things early in the game set up plays late in the game. That they watch defensive tendencies and then exploit them later in the game with certain play calls. It was neat seeing him show various examples of this. (notably part of the talk showed how the offensive line play in the ZBS could set up opposing teams for being exploited on the pass--we may be seeing more of this under Gibbs).

The plus for him is that he and Kubiak are completely on the same page. The negative for Shanny as OC is that if the offense struggled at all, the fanbase would be pointing fingers at him. It was harder to point fingers at Sherman because of his experience level, but less so if the struggles happen under Shanahan.

When you get someone like Gibbs to be assistant head coach, it gives Shanahan more coverage because you have so much experience on the offensive side of the ball that people won't put all the blame on him. So it is much more palatable to say Shanny for OC if you are doing it at the same time as getting Gibbs. Nice move.


As for your comment about Bates, he was always a meh in my book and not a big name. Nothing in his background suggested that he was a special type of coordinator. I am glad we passed on him.

That being said, I would love us to upgrade the defensive coaching if there is someone out there with the experience and track record that would be nice to see. Even if you have the caysh, you can't necessarily get the guy you want, so if they are looking to do a change, they are going to have to be pretty quiet about it or Smith gets hung out to dry.

CloakNNNdagger
01-09-2008, 08:53 PM
Makes me wonder what changes might come at the fullback position, and especially if or how it affects Leach. Also, how does Breuner fit into the H-back situation, if at all..? I don't know enough about the position, but I seem to recall it being more similar to a tight end type guy than a fullback. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The H-back is a mix between the FB and the TE. Whereas the TE is mostly used as an extra blocker and sometime receiver, the elite H-back usually is utilized as a "man for all seasons" in that he is expected to be a balanced mix of blocker, pass protector and receiver..........and he better have the brains of a QB, the hands of glue and the body of a battering ram...............

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2008, 08:57 PM
The H-back is a mix between the FB and the TE. Whereas the TE is mostly used as an extra blocker and sometime receiver, the elite H-back usually is utilized a "man for all seasons" in that he is expected to be a balanced mix of blocker, pass protector and receiver..........and he better have the brains of a QB, the hands of glue and the body of a battering ram...............

Owen Daniels? Hell, Kevin Walter although I'm not sure about him on blitz pickup, they did use him as a RB at times.

Fox
01-09-2008, 09:10 PM
A couple of thoughts about today's hiring.

Two great things about this move:

1. It shows that Kubiak isn't all about him. That if he can find someone who he thinks will help, he is more the merrier. The former Denver hires on the staff have been the strongest parts of the offense.

2. It is a good thing for Shanny the younger. I was uncertain about him coming to the Texans until I heard him speak at a coaching clinic. You completely forget how old he is. He is very impressive talking football.

One of the best things at the coaching clinic he talked about was how things early in the game set up plays late in the game. That they watch defensive tendencies and then exploit them later in the game with certain play calls. It was neat seeing him show various examples of this. (notably part of the talk showed how the offensive line play in the ZBS could set up opposing teams for being exploited on the pass--we may be seeing more of this under Gibbs).

The plus for him is that he and Kubiak are completely on the same page. The negative for Shanny as OC is that if the offense struggled at all, the fanbase would be pointing fingers at him. It was harder to point fingers at Sherman because of his experience level, but less so if the struggles happen under Shanahan.

When you get someone like Gibbs to be assistant head coach, it gives Shanahan more coverage because you have so much experience on the offensive side of the ball that people won't put all the blame on him. So it is much more palatable to say Shanny for OC if you are doing it at the same time as getting Gibbs. Nice move.


As for your comment about Bates, he was always a meh in my book and not a big name. Nothing in his background suggested that he was a special type of coordinator. I am glad we passed on him.

That being said, I would love us to upgrade the defensive coaching if there is someone out there with the experience and track record that would be nice to see. Even if you have the caysh, you can't necessarily get the guy you want, so if they are looking to do a change, they are going to have to be pretty quiet about it or Smith gets hung out to dry.

He had a pretty good track record in his previous two stops at Miami and Green Bay. I recall an article or two about him being a diva and turning down DC jobs that wouldn't allow him complete control of the defense, I figured if he thought he had that much clout maybe he had enough of a reputation (aka big name) around the league to pull it off. Anyways, my only point is that hitting the reset button with a new DC who has a more recognizable name and/or history isn't necessarily going to help, and might indeed set us back with our young players who have just adapted (or are still adapting) to the current set up. However, if some guy becomes available who has a great track record and would fit in well then I wouldn't shed any tears over replacing someone who has been mediocre thus far.

BigBull17
01-09-2008, 10:53 PM
One of the things I like about this is that I think it's going to make some offensive linemen want to come here to play.

I'm so psyched.

And RBs. If you are a FA you may come here for less money and more glory. RBs tend to really flurish in Gibbs system. Now to fix the defense...

Grid
01-09-2008, 11:19 PM
Wish we could get a hold of Monte Kiffin as DC. I love the Monte Kiffin style defense.

Wolf
01-09-2008, 11:25 PM
guess I can do it now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU2yt6wOoK0

TheRealJoker
01-09-2008, 11:26 PM
Wish we could get a hold of Monte Kiffin as DC. I love the Monte Kiffin style defense.

+ 1 zillion

Rex King
01-10-2008, 12:30 AM
Pete, that was one hell of a post last page. I played TE and a little bit of H-back in a ZBS in HS for 4 years and I never got it explained like that. Yeah, we had clinics and film sessions, but to break it down like that is remarkable. We also called it "rail blocking". All of the linemen and TE would power step or rail block left or right depending on the call. We ran a CWM offense as well, and the call was made at the line.

For example, when we were running middle zone left, rail left...the line would step hard left with a DT usually lined up in the 1 technique as he said. We were actually told to widen our gaps to encourage a DT to shoot a particular hole. Anyways, the LG would rail block left into the RDT in the 1 technique. His objective was to turn the DT's shoulders and allow for the C to take over the double team as the RB was about to hit the hole while the LG would continue on his "rail" to the left, engaging with a LB attempting to either fill the hole or flow to the ball. If the block was made at the second level, it created an easy and obvious cutback lane for the RB. It was like an easy 12 yards. If the LB was able to shed the LG block before the RB passed, it was still a 5 yard gain. Sure, the play in theory failed, but it was still a 5 yard run on a "failed" play. That is the beauty of a true ZBS. I as well could talk about principles and assignments for hours.

Good info. I was under the misguided impression that all zone plays were determined "on the fly" where the running back saw the hole open up. But from what you and Coach Dent are saying with the CWM principle, the "hole" is actually designated in a sense for inside and middle zone plays. Does this apply to the stretch play (Broncos style) as well?

Rex King
01-10-2008, 12:40 AM
http://www.gosimpsons.com/ProdImages/BurnsExcellentSticker.jpg

"It's all coming together now, Smithers."

Kubiak has mentioned a few times now the need to get a young left tackle. I interpreted him to mean someone besides Spencer. Meaning this draft. Meaning a young Texans LT could be getting coached up by one of the best o-line coaches ever. I don't want to jinx it by saying what else this could mean.:whip:

I wonder about pass protection though. Despite the Falcons' impressive rushing numbers, Vick got sacked a bunch. Was a lot of this on Vick, like the Carr effect? I do remember a lot of Falcons fans complaining about the mediocrity of their o-line and how Gibbs made it look a lot better than it was.

Grid
01-10-2008, 12:49 AM
All this info on the "correct" zone blocking scheme makes me hope that Gibbs comes in and sets things straight.



Here is the thing though.. the use of fullbacks is not a "new" thing with the ZBS and the NFL. Fullbacks were used extensively in Denver while they were making the ZBS famous.

Now..its true that fullbacks in the "Denver" scheme were not used the same way others used them..yes they did run blocking but they were also (more importantly) used as receivers and for misdirection.. (I think...im pretty much talking out my ass here).

Anyway..my question is.. can the ZBS be implemented "fully" and still make use of our FB?

Either way..I hope Gibbs comes in and gives us a real honest-to-god direction to move forward with on the Oline.

The Pencil Neck
01-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Here is the thing though.. the use of fullbacks is not a "new" thing with the ZBS and the NFL. Fullbacks were used extensively in Denver while they were making the ZBS famous.

Now..its true that fullbacks in the "Denver" scheme were not used the same way others used them..yes they did run blocking but they were also (more importantly) used as receivers and for misdirection.. (I think...im pretty much talking out my ass here).

Anyway..my question is.. can the ZBS be implemented "fully" and still make use of our FB?

Either way..I hope Gibbs comes in and gives us a real honest-to-god direction to move forward with on the Oline.

Well, I just went back and looked at some highlights of the Atlanta offense from 2005 and... voila... Fullbacks.

2005 was still Gibbs, right?

eriadoc
01-10-2008, 03:21 AM
I wonder about pass protection though. Despite the Falcons' impressive rushing numbers, Vick got sacked a bunch. Was a lot of this on Vick, like the Carr effect? I do remember a lot of Falcons fans complaining about the mediocrity of their o-line and how Gibbs made it look a lot better than it was.

Vick definitely amplified the sacks. Their line was not a cast of all-stars, and Gibbs did make them look better than they were, talent-wise, but Vick exacerbated the sacks issue as well. Actually, a lot of scrambling QBs tend to do that. A decently mobile QB with good field awareness will thrive behind a well-coached ZBS line.

leebigeztx
01-10-2008, 03:46 AM
One thing about Gibbs and its widely known, gibbs doesn't like the use of high draft picks on lineman. Gibbs would rather develop a atheletic type lineman from the 3rd rd or so.

PapaL
01-10-2008, 06:55 AM
The H-back is a mix between the FB and the TE. Whereas the TE is mostly used as an extra blocker and sometime receiver, the elite H-back usually is utilized as a "man for all seasons" in that he is expected to be a balanced mix of blocker, pass protector and receiver..........and he better have the brains of a QB, the hands of glue and the body of a battering ram...............

Ahem...and not fumble.

Maddict5
01-10-2008, 09:21 AM
great move with gibbs..

and about smith, remember last year we did blitz quite a bit so i think we might see more of it in the future if the secondary gets settled

:fans:

hookinreds
01-10-2008, 09:32 AM
great move with gibbs..

and about smith, remember last year we did blitz quite a bit so i think we might see more of it in the future if the secondary gets settled

:fans:

We blitzed quite a bit?

NitroGSXR
01-10-2008, 09:56 AM
I challenge anyone to watch that video and not find yourself humming along.
Video watched but your challenge failed. I did not hum along.

I'm Deaf.

You owe me a cookie.

:specnatz:

Goldensilence
01-10-2008, 11:36 AM
What great luck to get Gibbs on our staff. I know the moves earlier in the season were pointing to a move in the more true ZB future. What makes me curious now is if we see a shuffle in the OL. Didn't we PS a former UM LT this year or was he RT?

I definately like the move and think this staff can only benefit from his presence. I know Lil Shanahan is only 28 but I'm willing to give him a shot behind Kubiak and Gibbs backs. I'm hoping it pays dividends down the road as far as remaining on staff if he does have a successful tenure as I'm sure we all hope he has. It looks more now like Kubiak has the staff in place he wants with Gibbbs on board and Frank Bush getting in the door last year.

I'm still far from sold on Smith. I think it's still no coincidence the play calling gets more aggressive and the defense looks better. We did have a lot of injuries this season and I'll give him that but i mean how long can we continue to run what looks like to me a schemeless defense? What will this defense hang its hat on next year? How many Pro Bowl Quality Players on defense will it take to make Smith comfortable sending more on the blitz? It leaves me wondering is Smith that guy that can get this defense to crack the top 10 consistantly. I doubt we'll see the change over this year and maybe the injuries bought him one more year. I can deal just I'll be nervous about it going into next year.

Joe Texan
01-10-2008, 11:38 AM
Sorry Nitro I will try to find you tube with sign

Maddict5
01-10-2008, 11:41 AM
We blitzed quite a bit?

in 06 yeah.. i remember kubiak saying that we were blitzing too much which sparked a debate her on what a 'blitz' was.... zone blitzes etc

cuppacoffee
01-10-2008, 12:03 PM
Is this the same message board that "hailed" the coming of Mike Sherman?..:shades:

The same message board that later started questioning if Sherman was actually a good hire?..:confused:

Where are the Denver connection complaints?

It seems that our O line will be starting from scratch again, not necessarily a bad or good thing, just something to ponder during the long offseason...:thinking:

For the record...I'm all for the Gibbs hiring and the promotion of Shanny Jr.

I'm on the fence concerning our DC.


:texflag:

:coffee:

WesmanTexanfan
01-10-2008, 12:19 PM
I read this earlier, and if this were to happen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r559C51uE

aaaahahahahaha


well IT HAPPENED. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOH, im siked, i cant wait to average a minimum of 115 rush yards per game............ yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, im glad he gave shanahan a shot at the OC job, i think theyll both do great.......

eriadoc
01-10-2008, 12:21 PM
Is this the same message board that "hailed" the coming of Mike Sherman?..:shades:

The same message board that later started questioning if Sherman was actually a good hire?..:confused:

Where are the Denver connection complaints?

It seems that our O line will be starting from scratch again, not necessarily a bad or good thing, just something to ponder during the long offseason...:thinking:

For the record...I'm all for the Gibbs hiring and the promotion of Shanny Jr.

I'm on the fence concerning our DC.


:texflag:

:coffee:

Well, I think the result of that came to be what many suspected. A bastardized version of ZBS and man-block power scheme don't really mix all that well. Do one or the other, and do it well.

As far as starting over again .... regardless of the Gibbs hire, who did you think had a set job going into TC next year? Hopefully, Winston and maybe Pitts. The other jobs would all be up for grabs, if I were in charge. Salaam is past whatever prime he had, though still good for a backup. Weary, McKinney, White, and Spencer all have serious injury issues to overcome. Flanagan is past his prime. Brisiel, Studdard, and Frye are all unproven for the most part. The line was due for change anyway. I think they've added pretty athletic linemen, for the most part, so they'll fit Gibbs' ZBS scheme fine, I think. Pitts' strength really is his athleticism for his size. Spencer was thought to be very athletic for a 350lb. guy, and Winston is quick. Returns from injury leave some doubts, but for the most part, Gibbs is not going to have to try and paint his masterpiece with crayons.

This would be the perfect time to draft a LT and groom him!

HOU-TEX
01-10-2008, 12:39 PM
Is this the same message board that "hailed" the coming of Mike Sherman?..:shades:

The same message board that later started questioning if Sherman was actually a good hire?..:confused:

Where are the Denver connection complaints?

It seems that our O line will be starting from scratch again, not necessarily a bad or good thing, just something to ponder during the long offseason...:thinking:

For the record...I'm all for the Gibbs hiring and the promotion of Shanny Jr.

I'm on the fence concerning our DC.


:texflag:

:coffee:

I wouldn't think of it as starting over, cup. Think of it as an advanced class in Zone-Blocking with the teacher of the class being the best of the best. :texflag:

thunderkyss
01-10-2008, 12:43 PM
One thing about Gibbs and its widely known, gibbs doesn't like the use of high draft picks on lineman. Gibbs would rather develop a atheletic type lineman from the 3rd rd or so.

This has been the same philosophy in Denver & what Kubiak seems to have brought here.

I know Denver has used two first day picks in the last ten years on OL, but they didn't last long.

Most of their linemen have been late first day picks, or later... some even undrafted.

Htownsportsfan
01-10-2008, 12:55 PM
For all of us who like nasty Alex Gibbs is perfect! To say he is gruff is an understatement! He hates the media and in Denver would fine his players for giving comments to the media, ask Stinky he got fined for giving a quote to an Idaho rag. According to Lance Z this morning that should bring a halt to the E Salaam show and Mckinney show on 1560. "Z" also said this will be a turning point for this franchise that you can look back on years from now and clearly see a corner was turned with this hire. Only negative is he may be a short term guy!

tulexan
01-10-2008, 01:00 PM
For all of us who like nasty Alex Gibbs is perfect! To say he is gruff is an understatement! He hates the media and in Denver would fine his players for giving comments to the media, ask Stinky he got fined for giving a quote to an Idaho rag. According to Lance Z this morning that should bring a halt to the E Salaam show and Mckinney show on 1560. "Z" also said this will be a turning point for this franchise that you can look back on years from now and clearly see a corner was turned with this hire. Only negative is he may be a short term guy!

Even if he is just a short term guy, if our coaches and players can soak up everything that he does and learn from it, we will be in a much better situation for years to come

WesmanTexanfan
01-10-2008, 01:04 PM
This has been the same philosophy in Denver & what Kubiak seems to have brought here.

I know Denver has used two first day picks in the last ten years on OL, but they didn't last long.

Most of their linemen have been late first day picks, or later... some even undrafted.

like studard, he'll be a beast if he stays healthy.... was part of the best college O lineive evr seen (at UT, vince young era)

TexansLucky13
01-10-2008, 01:34 PM
I am excited about this!

HoustonFrog
01-10-2008, 01:50 PM
Is Shanahan going to get a "MS" Matt Schaub tatoo now:rolleyes:

michaelm
01-10-2008, 02:04 PM
This has been the same philosophy in Denver & what Kubiak seems to have brought here.

I know Denver has used two first day picks in the last ten years on OL, but they didn't last long.

Most of their linemen have been late first day picks, or later... some even undrafted.

Interesting to note that George Foster, who was one of Denver's first round OTs, is a free agent from Detroit this offseason. I think Foster went to Detroit in the Dre Bly trade, but may be mistake.
FYI, Foster is a RT, so I don't know how that would jibe with what we want to do in free agency.

threetoedpete
01-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Pete, that was one hell of a post last page. I played TE and a little bit of H-back in a ZBS in HS for 4 years and I never got it explained like that. Yeah, we had clinics and film sessions, but to break it down like that is remarkable. We also called it "rail blocking". All of the linemen and TE would power step or rail block left or right depending on the call. We ran a CWM offense as well, and the call was made at the line.

For example, when we were running middle zone left, rail left...the line would step hard left with a DT usually lined up in the 1 technique as he said. We were actually told to widen our gaps to encourage a DT to shoot a particular hole. Anyways, the LG would rail block left into the RDT in the 1 technique. His objective was to turn the DT's shoulders and allow for the C to take over the double team as the RB was about to hit the hole while the LG would continue on his "rail" to the left, engaging with a LB attempting to either fill the hole or flow to the ball. If the block was made at the second level, it created an easy and obvious cutback lane for the RB. It was like an easy 12 yards. If the LB was able to shed the LG block before the RB passed, it was still a 5 yard gain. Sure, the play in theory failed, but it was still a 5 yard run on a "failed" play. That is the beauty of a true ZBS. I as well could talk about principles and assignments for hours.


Not my work, coach dent posted that a couple of years ago. I came from three runs and a cloud of dust program.

Well I've seen some dubious post regaurding ZBS latly. I thought the time was apt to repost it. Some of those posts were hurting my brain.

threetoedpete
01-10-2008, 02:27 PM
Pete
What do we need to fix the o-line? More talent @ LT & C or is there enough talent but we just need to get on the same page? If it is the latter I'm sure coach Gibbs will fix that. How do you feel Pitts will take to coach Gibbs? He isn't the most intense guy. Where does Mckinney fit in the ZBS? Is he atheletic enough to fit in?

I posted it the other day they will be looking for four more just like Erick Winston...The olt being the lone exception and have a longer wing span. The last Great Denver OLT was a conveted TE from Colorodo Matt Lepsis. The link is in the draft and College boards. The beauty of the system is that you can groom guys to fit. Much like in the 3-4 defense you're looking for tweener guys in the middle rounds...Like Ezra Butler and TCU's Tommy Blake to fill the OLB role, in this scheme you're looking for guys who can run and are quick enough to get angles on guys. Spencer might fit. The problem with the scheme is we have great DTs within the division. Basicaly you're tring to get guys running out of poition and then sealing them and creating a running lane. One thing you can be certain of...anyone who posts a poor wonderlick will not be picked. You gotta be able to think quick on your feet.

'nother thing I just thought of...I though that Frye would make a good ZBS center. Especailly in our division. He's not prototypical....but He squats 685 and is quick and kinda stumpy. I think he will make a good barometer. If anyone can get it out of him Gibbs can.

cuppacoffee
01-10-2008, 02:35 PM
For all of us who like nasty Alex Gibbs is perfect! To say he is gruff is an understatement! He hates the media and in Denver would fine his players for giving comments to the media, ask Stinky he got fined for giving a quote to an Idaho rag. According to Lance Z this morning that should bring a halt to the E Salaam show and Mckinney show on 1560. "Z" also said this will be a turning point for this franchise that you can look back on years from now and clearly see a corner was turned with this hire. Only negative is he may be a short term guy!


I've been an advocate of nasty ever since the Travis Johnson brohaha..:bat: .

I like Travis. I don't mind the occasional 15 yarder :penalty:.to get the opponents attention.

I imagine Gibbs will find the media :joker: in Houston even easier to hate.

I take from the comments made by Kubiak that Gibbs is here to tutor Kubes as much as the O line. It shows that Kubiak is serious about learning his trade.

I love using smilies.:D

:gotexans1


:coffee:

Second Honeymoon
01-10-2008, 02:59 PM
I've been an advocate of nasty ever since the Travis Johnson brohaha..:bat: .

I like Travis. I don't mind the occasional 15 yarder :penalty:.to get the opponents attention.

I imagine Gibbs will find the media :joker: in Houston even easier to hate.

I take from the comments made by Kubiak that Gibbs is here to tutor Kubes as much as the O line. It shows that Kubiak is serious about learning his trade.

I love using smilies.:D

:gotexans1


:coffee:

yup. TJ knows that football is a full contact sport and isn't afraid to lay the wood to someone to send a message. When people are cheapshotting you or throwing downfield up by 30 in the 4th Quarter, its time to lay the wood. We need more like TJ imho. guys that arent afraid to stick their nose in it.

DocBar
01-10-2008, 04:24 PM
Sooooooo........

Who coaches the QB's now? :backsout:

Shannahan will still coach the QB's.

eriadoc
01-10-2008, 05:30 PM
yup. TJ knows that football is a full contact sport and isn't afraid to lay the wood to someone to send a message. When people are cheapshotting you or throwing downfield up by 30 in the 4th Quarter, its time to lay the wood. We need more like TJ imho. guys that arent afraid to stick their nose in it.

There are more intelligent ways to do it, and more intelligent times to do it than those situations and times that TJ has chosen to do the things he does. That's my only issue with it. Haynesworth is an example. I don't think he got as many 15-yd personal fouls called on him this season, yet I would fear him a lot more than TJ.

thunderkyss
01-10-2008, 05:37 PM
Interesting to note that George Foster, who was one of Denver's first round OTs, is a free agent from Detroit this offseason. I think Foster went to Detroit in the Dre Bly trade, but may be mistake.
FYI, Foster is a RT, so I don't know how that would jibe with what we want to do in free agency.

I was pointing out Denver's record of finding better OL talent for their system in the later rounds than in the early rounds. I'd expect Kubiak & Gibbs to continue do the same here.

powerfuldragon
01-10-2008, 06:12 PM
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=809645&postcount=8

http://www.noahshachtman.com/images/Carson-Karnak.jpg

steelbtexan
01-10-2008, 07:55 PM
I posted it the other day they will be looking for four more just like Erick Winston...The olt being the lone exception and have a longer wing span. The last Great Denver OLT was a conveted TE from Colorodo Matt Lepsis. The link is in the draft and College boards. The beauty of the system is that you can groom guys to fit. Much like in the 3-4 defense you're looking for tweener guys in the middle rounds...Like Ezra Butler and TCU's Tommy Blake to fill the OLB role, in this scheme you're looking for guys who can run and are quick enough to get angles on guys. Spencer might fit. The problem with the scheme is we have great DTs within the division. Basicaly you're tring to get guys running out of poition and then sealing them and creating a running lane. One thing you can be certain of...anyone who posts a poor wonderlick will not be picked. You gotta be able to think quick on your feet.

'nother thing I just thought of...I though that Frye would make a good ZBS center. Especailly in our division. He's not prototypical....but He quats 685 and is quick and kinda stumpy. I think he will make a good barometer. If anyone can get it out of him Gibbs can.

Thanks Pete @ the combine we should look for o-line with good 40 times & 3cone drill times with good wunderlich scores. NO V.Y. clones hahaha

steelbtexan
01-10-2008, 07:58 PM
My sleeper pick 6th rd. Brad Cottam TE Tennessee

Texans future starting LT

76Texan
01-11-2008, 12:37 PM
There are coaches who have different oppinion about the use of the FB in ZBS.

Here are some thoughts of Jeff Jagodzinski (Packers' OC, learning from Alex Gibbs in Atlanta) why the FB isn't neccessarily at a disadvantage against the LB:

"The reason the fullback doesn't need to be a big, bruising blocker is the way the zone scheme works. As the offensive line flows in one direction, with each lineman responsible for an area rather than an individual defender, it's harder for a linebacker to simply pick a hole and attack. So when the fullback is making the read on the defender he needs to block, that player isn't likely to have a full head of steam.

He's assigned a specific guy, but he's got all those linemen in front of him, knowing their respective gaps, so he doesn't have linebackers running downhill on him all the time," offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski said. "You don't have to be that big hammer to be a fullback in this system."

Full article here:http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2006/08/24/2/

Errant Hothy
01-11-2008, 02:09 PM
I think the hiring of Gibbs is great news for a kid like Rashad Butler. If Butler can add some of the weight he dropped in Carolina, I expect him to atleast battle for a starting spot, and his most natural position in a ZBS might just be LT.

steelbtexan
01-11-2008, 04:21 PM
I think the hiring of Gibbs is great news for a kid like Rashad Butler. If Butler can add some of the weight he dropped in Carolina, I expect him to atleast battle for a starting spot, and his most natural position in a ZBS might just be LT.

Agreed
This is a big offseason for him, he needs to put on about 20 lbs of muscle.

76Texan
01-11-2008, 09:51 PM
Another thing about FB in the ZBS, I think, is to keep the play action pass option open. Like the one to A.J. in the Chiefs game.

We had shown a couple of running plays before that, and now the LBs, the LCB and the FS all bite.

...
And it's not like we're asking the FB to meet the LB the whole game long. Perhaps half a dozen time, I'm not even sure that much, especially head on.

Runner
01-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Weird conflicting info. I know you got that directly from someone with the team, but Chester Pitts on 610 am one time said he was never given a specific weight he had to reach or be fined.

Yeah - he didn't have to weigh a specific weight like 310. He just had to be under 311*. :)

*Example numbers just made up and have no reflection on reality.

Yeah, McKinney downplayed the weight thing too when Kubiak first came over.

I heard it from a couple sources with the team.

Maybe it only applied to a few guys on the line.

I'm pretty sure they all had weights they had to meet, which they all did but Spencer.

threetoedpete
01-12-2008, 09:12 AM
All this info on the "correct" zone blocking scheme makes me hope that Gibbs comes in and sets things straight.



Here is the thing though.. the use of fullbacks is not a "new" thing with the ZBS and the NFL. Fullbacks were used extensively in Denver while they were making the ZBS famous.

Now..its true that fullbacks in the "Denver" scheme were not used the same way others used them..yes they did run blocking but they were also (more importantly) used as receivers and for misdirection.. (I think...im pretty much talking out my ass here).

Anyway..my question is.. can the ZBS be implemented "fully" and still make use of our FB?



Either way..I hope Gibbs comes in and gives us a real honest-to-god direction to move forward with on the Oline.


That's a good question. Our Fb should of got a pro bowl invite in my book.
I don't have a good answer.

I'm not going to look up all of the names of tackles that were picked by the franchise and didn't make it. What I will say is that every time one failed, it set us back a couple of years.

From my tree, they had what they had on the roster. And what they had on the roster lent itself to running the Green Bay power game with the Denver passing attack prinkled on top. I think Sherman did an outstanding job for what he had to work with. Kubiak and the boys play calling was outstanding.
But you're only going to go so far when the threat of A.J. was taken away and the guys on the roster have limited ablities. We had one guy and only one guy on the roster who conistantly, when faced with the execution of a block one on one in space, made the play. That there thingy should be all you need to know. That will change shortly. Book it.

The1ApplePie
01-12-2008, 11:12 AM
Man Peyton Hillis would be a monster in the ZBS.

RB in the first, Hillis in the 5th:whip:

76Texan
01-14-2008, 11:46 PM
Another play with the FB in ZBS.
Panthers game, 5 min 1st quarter.
Showing a counter run to the right when the line pulls to the left. The FB seems to declare where we run, that's what we like the defense to think.
All 3 LBs bought the run. Another nice play action fake, 33 yd gain for A.J.