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View Full Version : Sounds like Kubes has had it with T.J.


TEXANRED
12-23-2007, 10:10 PM
He hurt his football team. Twice. Ya know I gotta go back and look at the plays in fairness to him, but uh, regardless he hurt his football team twice on the field and its not going to happen. And if that happens somebody else is going to be on the field he's not going to hurt his team.
http://www.houstontexans.com/index2.html

I don't think TJ will be wearing Texan colors for very much longer. Which is too bad cus I like the guys mean streak. He is just a bone head. Kinda like Peek was.

austintexanite
12-23-2007, 10:18 PM
I saw the first PF, which was BS, but wasn't able to watch the 2nd one.

Hervoyel
12-23-2007, 10:29 PM
The first one I thought was pretty ticky-tack. Peyton Manning gets that call and maybe a few other QB's do too but TJ was already in motion when Manning went down. It was a classic "Put a skirt on him" call.

The second one I thought was just plain foolish considering that the refs had pretty much already established that they were going to be calling this one pretty close.

TJ doesn't think and a player who doesn't think is a liability.

Spled
12-23-2007, 10:30 PM
The personal foul after Mario's sack was a bad call IMO. How are defenders supposed to stop their momentum when they're going for the sack? It seemed the team fell apart after it, so I can see why Kubiak's angry about it.

281
12-23-2007, 10:32 PM
the first one was the worst calls i've seen in a long time... the second was blatant.

Marcus
12-23-2007, 10:33 PM
I saw the first PF, which was BS, but wasn't able to watch the 2nd one.

Well, if you had of, you wouldn't be complaining about the first one. Don't be surprised if he doesn't get fined by the league.

TEXANRED
12-23-2007, 10:35 PM
I think that TJ is one of those players that has a rep with refs and gets doesn't get any kind of slack.

Between his Defensive holding and personal fouls he is a drive sustaining penalty waiting to happen.

Marcus
12-23-2007, 10:39 PM
TJ doesn't think and a player who doesn't think is a liability.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much how Kubiak is looking at it.

Andrew6
12-23-2007, 10:42 PM
wow, kinda sad when a 20 yrd kick off return is part of your high lights. Mario had a damn good sack.

TheRealJoker
12-23-2007, 10:51 PM
Everyone is pretty sure that Amobi is going to be a beast a couple years from now. The problem is we need someone like Fat Albert in the middle of our DL NOW if we want to compete in the toughest division in football!!!

TJ hasn't lived up to his 1st round draft pick even when he plays well. His penalties (I didn't agree with the 1st one, but as a whole on the season) have to be weighed in when looking at his performance. His highlights have not made up for his mistakes. We need an impact DT and we need to get rid of TJ imo. He's got talent, but he lacks the smarts and methinks he'll be in Kubes doghouse from now on.

hollywood_texan
12-23-2007, 10:53 PM
If Kubiak wants to pull out the scorecard of who hurts the Texans, not just factoring in personal foul penalties, he might not have a job.

Kubiak just got flat out, out coached again.

He needs to look in the mirror first and all the other problems with this team before calling anyone out publicly.

If he is going to have a reasonable standard, not just personal foul penalties, of who should not be on the team because they hurt the team too much, the Texans probably wouldn't have a full 47 man roster and less a few coaches.

First, I understand the TJ issue, but one penalty was BS. Second, it's not like these two penalties are the reason the Texans or without them, they would have won.

Kubiak needs to get a grip...

Marcus
12-23-2007, 10:56 PM
Speaking of Mario, did anyone catch his interview on Inside The Game and see those earrings of his?

I know he's rich as hell, but jeezus, they looked like 10 carats each.

TEXANRED
12-23-2007, 11:01 PM
If Kubiak wants to pull out the scorecard of who hurts the Texans, not just factoring in personal foul penalties, he might not have a job.

Kubiak just got flat out, out coached again.

He needs to look in the mirror first and all the other problems with this team before calling anyone out publicly.

If he is going to have a reasonable standard, not just personal foul penalties, of who should not be on the team because they hurt the team too much, the Texans probably wouldn't have a full 47 man roster and less a few coaches.

First, I understand the TJ issue, but one penalty was BS. Second, it's not like these two penalties are the reason the Texans or without them, they would have won.

Kubiak needs to get a grip...
Offensively we had a pretty good game plan. Its not Kubes fault people drop the football, run the wrong routes, or throw 3 INT's.

Defensively, well thats different. I think that everyone should be prepared to have Smith come back next year. I believe he will get a pass due to all the injuries on the Defensive side of the ball. I am sure that is what his excuse is for playing a soft defense against Indy.

beerlover
12-23-2007, 11:01 PM
Kubiak needs to get a grip...

thats excatly what he's doing. can't say it any better than Hervoyel, "TJ doesn't think and a player who doesn't think is a liability". its not like this was an isolated incident either, he's killed defensive stands all season with stupid, flagrant, personel fouls.

Marcus
12-23-2007, 11:03 PM
Kubiak just got flat out, out coached again.

Oh . . bull****!

Manning lights up the defense for over 300 yards, Rosenfels throws like crap, and yet they lose because Kubiak "got outcoached"?

Right! :crazy:

hollywood_texan
12-23-2007, 11:12 PM
Oh . . bull****!

Manning lights up the defense for over 300 yards, Rosenfels throws like crap, and yet they lose because Kubiak "got outcoached"?

Right! :crazy:

The team didn't show and no adjustments. That is coaching, plain and simple.

Look, I understand Kubiak is going at this short handed when he is going up against the Colts, but I just don't get the feeling Kubiak is going to bring a winner if he had all the parts anyway.

Kind of like Carr and the offensive line issue.

Besides, pointing the finger at any one person right now just seems pointless. That is really my main issue with Kubiak.

TJ kicked off this team isn't going to make the Texans better or would have given them any better chance to win against Colts today.

So, it's not as crazy as you think if you look at from a different perspective.

Nice try, I'll give you an A for effort, just like everyone else does for Kubiak and wish for next year.

Ha!

eriadoc
12-23-2007, 11:16 PM
The team didn't show and no adjustments. That is coaching, plain and simple.

Look, I understand Kubiak is going at this short handed when he is going up against the Colts, but I just don't get the feeling Kubiak is going to bring a winner if he had all the parts anyway.

Kind of like Carr and the offensive line issue.

Besides, pointing the finger at any one person right now just seems pointless. That is really my main issue with Kubiak.

TJ kicked off this team isn't going to make the Texans better or would have given them any better chance to win against Colts today.

So, it's not as crazy as you think if you look at from a different perspective.

Nice try, I'll give you an A for effort, just like everyone else does for Kubiak and wish for next year.

Ha!

When AJ is open, very open, and your QB throws behind him for a pick that starts the downhill slide, I'm wondering what adjustments you'd make. Rosenfels played like crap. Period. There is only so much coaching you can do when your QB sucks. Funny, that sounds like a familiar refrain, huh?

TheRealJoker
12-23-2007, 11:21 PM
Our defense definately got outcoached. Peyton must've been licking his chops when he saw the cushion our bend but dont break DC was letting our corners give their WRs. Particularly on 3rd down.

How can you get a pass rush going when all Peyton has to do is throw the ball as soon as he gets it and he'll get a 1st down because his WRs are getting a 5 yard cushion on 3rd and 4?

cuppacoffee
12-23-2007, 11:33 PM
Unbelievable.

I watched channel 13s inside the game tonight.

I say BS to what I was hearing.

Kubiak getting on TJs case about the two penalties. BS

Bob Allen getting on TJs case about the penalties. BS

Spencer Tillman (what makes him an expert) getting on TJs case. BS.

Kubiak saying that if TJ continues to hurt the team he will not play. BS

Get a clue Kubiak… TJs two penalties, one highly dubious by the way, didn’t lose the game.

Hurting the team?

Lets talk about O linemen missing blocks and hurting the team. or

Wideouts who cannot get open. or

A qb throwing ints. all over the field. Lets bench them instead.

I am not too knowledgeable about game plans and the x’s and o’s, but a few people who do know question your game planning and second half adjustments ( ? ) Bench yourself.

You have a patchwork of castoffs playing your defensive backfield, letting the opposing players run amok in the secondary. Bench them.

You wanna blame TJ? Blame TJ? BS.

I will take penalties of aggression anytime.

TJ….Don’t let the desperate coaches, tv announcers or message board posters get you down. Hang in there and play aggressive, take a chance at making a play. I’ll take a 15 yard’er to try and get to Manning. It worked on Shaub…didn’t it.

We have enough nice guy losers on this team already.

Remove me from the Kubiak bandwagon.

:coffee:

Texanmike02
12-23-2007, 11:46 PM
This is a generalization. Usually I go back and do some research but I don't have time right now but I think 3rd quarters are our worst quarter by far. It seems like we get out coached between the end of the 1st half and the beginning of the 4th quarter week in and week out. I don't know how much of it has to do with Kubes having to learn to make adjustments. I don't honestly know if you learn to make them or if its natural.

Oh a note to our QBs:

I know that every time I look at Manning on the sideline (when you can see him not just when its focused on him) he's either talking to someone (hand motioning making me think he's talking about a play) or he's looking at the snapshots.

281
12-24-2007, 12:00 AM
man, i can't believe how knee-jerk you guys are after losing a game on the road to the superbowl champs down a starting QB/RB and lacking an NFL secondary. jesus h. christ. talent-wise, we have a lot of work to do. get over it.

Texanmike02
12-24-2007, 12:02 AM
man, i can't believe how knee-jerk you guys are after losing a game on the road to the superbowl champs down a starting QB/RB and lacking an NFL secondary. jesus h. christ. talent-wise, we have a lot of work to do. get over it.

Hey just for the record. I don't think I've changed much from week to week. Though I have to admit I was wrong about our receivers. WAAAAAAY WRONG

Mik

beerlover
12-24-2007, 12:05 AM
DeMeco Ryan is playing hurt, when can you remember him having only two tackles in a game? think that might have had something to do with all those missed tackles no wonder the defense looked so bad. when your rookie cb leads the team in tackles (11) you know your in trouble :crutch:

eriadoc
12-24-2007, 12:10 AM
Unbelievable.

I watched channel 13s inside the game tonight.

I say BS to what I was hearing.

Kubiak getting on TJs case about the two penalties. BS

Bob Allen getting on TJs case about the penalties. BS

Spencer Tillman (what makes him an expert) getting on TJs case. BS.

Kubiak saying that if TJ continues to hurt the team he will not play. BS

Get a clue Kubiak… TJs two penalties, one highly dubious by the way, didn’t lose the game.

Hurting the team?

Lets talk about O linemen missing blocks and hurting the team. or

Wideouts who cannot get open. or

A qb throwing ints. all over the field. Lets bench them instead.

I am not too knowledgeable about game plans and the x’s and o’s, but a few people who do know question your game planning and second half adjustments ( ? ) Bench yourself.

You have a patchwork of castoffs playing your defensive backfield, letting the opposing players run amok in the secondary. Bench them.

You wanna blame TJ? Blame TJ? BS.

I will take penalties of aggression anytime.

TJ….Don’t let the desperate coaches, tv announcers or message board posters get you down. Hang in there and play aggressive, take a chance at making a play. I’ll take a 15 yard’er to try and get to Manning. It worked on Shaub…didn’t it.

We have enough nice guy losers on this team already.

Remove me from the Kubiak bandwagon.

:coffee:

Unless you're just PO'd at Kubiak for choosing TJ to be the whipping boy, I don't see how anything you've said equates to a problem with Kubak. *shrug*

As for TJ, the first one was a penalty of aggression, and on Manning. I didn't have a problem with that one, and like other posters have said, it was a ticky-tack call. The second one was blatantly stupid. He was just trying to get a lick in when the player was clearly down, AND he led with the helmet to the back of the other guy's helmet. Aggressive play is good when coupled with intelligence. TJ has had problems all year with personal fouls and defensive holding. Defensive holding is so infrequently called against anyone else on the team, or hell, any other team when I watch other games.

TJ bears some responsibility for his play, especially over the course of the season, but no, he isn't the reason we lost the game. It was a total team loss.

281
12-24-2007, 12:10 AM
DeMeco Ryan is playing hurt, when can you remember him having only two tackles in a game? think that might have had something to do with all those missed tackles no wonder the defense looked so bad. when your rookie cb leads the team in tackles (11) you know your in trouble :crutch:

forgot about that too... i was wondering where he was all game!

hollywood_texan
12-24-2007, 12:10 AM
When AJ is open, very open, and your QB throws behind him for a pick that starts the downhill slide, I'm wondering what adjustments you'd make. Rosenfels played like crap. Period. There is only so much coaching you can do when your QB sucks. Funny, that sounds like a familiar refrain, huh?

Your taking one situation and making a point. I am looking at the total package of Kubiak, not just one game or one issue.

There is an old saying, people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

You wanna scapegoat TJ, fine.

Are these personal fouls an issue and a cost to the team, of course they are. But not really when you look at the big picture of what is going on and all the other problems there are.

Bottom line is Kubiak should have handled this in house. Calling a player out like that really isn't the best thing to do under any circumstance, doing it in this circumstance just seems foolish.

Besides, when does Kubiak give a straight answer anyway half the time?

Which brings me probably to the real issue, these two guys don't like each other. Which is probably why Kubiak said what he said, which shows is very poor coaching on his part if that is the case.

As every week goes by, it seems clear Kubiak is in over his head.

Next week will really be interesting to say the least...

cuppacoffee
12-24-2007, 12:10 AM
man, i can't believe how knee-jerk you guys are after losing a game on the road to the superbowl champs down a starting QB/RB and lacking an NFL secondary. jesus h. christ. talent-wise, we have a lot of work to do. get over it.


I agree with all that you typed, minus the knee jerk.

Get over what?

Get over Kubiak placing blame on the only player in the game that had any semblance of a give a damn attitude?

281
12-24-2007, 12:18 AM
[/B]


I agree with all that you typed, minus the knee jerk.

Get over what?

Get over Kubiak placing blame on the only player in the game that had any semblance of a give a damn attitude?

where in in his words does he place blame on TJ for an entire loss? what he said was right: boneheaded plays hurt a football team. that second (and VERY blatant) penalty did just that... and how that penalty is attributed to "having a give a damn" attitude is way beyond me... how is losing your head and getting your team penalized showing you "give a damn"? i hate losing as much as the next man, but i think you're looking WAY too hard into a couple of sentences.

eriadoc
12-24-2007, 12:20 AM
Your taking one situation and making a point. I am looking at the total package of Kubiak, not just one game or one issue.

There is an old saying, people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

You wanna scapegoat TJ, fine.

Are these personal fouls an issue and a cost to the team, of course they are. But not really when you look at the big picture of what is going on.

Bottom line is Kubiak should have handled this in house. Calling a player out like that really isn't the best thing to do under any circumstance, doing it in this circumstance just seems foolish.

Besides, when does Kubiak give a straight answer anyway half the time?

Which brings me probably to the real issue, these two guys don't like each other. Which is probably why Kubiak said what he said, which shows is very poor coaching on his part if that is the case.

As every week goes by, it seems clear Kubiak is in over his head.

Next week will really be interesting to say the least...

I agree with that completely, and TJ shouldn't be made a scapegoat in any case. In agreeing to that, I still don't come to the same conclusions some of y'all appear to. Kubiak has made some mistakes along the way, but he hasn't cost us games. The players on the field have decided games. Today's loss is fresh in all our minds, but the bottom line is that the team has performed better under Kubiak than at any point in history, and that's with 17 players on IR, the best player missing half the season, and his main QB banged up for a few of the 11 games he played in. He was already dealing with a talent shortage, than on top of that, we lead the league in injuries. Some of the premier talent he does have is still young, raw, and has quite a ways to go. Mario is 21 or 22. Demeco is 21 or 22. Okoye is 20. Schaub is just into his first year with any significant playing time. This is Walter's first year with any significant playing time. OD is only in his second year. Winston is only in his second year.

With all of this, Kubiak has turned this offense into an NFL-caliber offense. It still has problems, but it's night versus day compared to anything we've ever seen here in Houston. 2004 was the closest, and that was for maybe half a season. The defense, which is not Kubiak's forte, as everyone already knows, can take over games at times. As they mature, they'll become even more of a force.

Kubiak will be fine.

hollywood_texan
12-24-2007, 12:22 AM
TJ wasn't the only one to place blame on for this game.

Coaching is about decision making.

This really isn't about TJ as much as how Kubiak handled this situation. Which was very poorly. Same as his clock management skills.

281
12-24-2007, 12:26 AM
TJ wasn't the only one to place blame on for this game.

Coaching is about decision making.

This really isn't about TJ as much as how Kubiak handled this situation. Which was very poorly. Same as his clock management skills.

haha, his clock management skills need work... but goddang, you're making mt. everest out of a coke line. i wouldn't even call it a "situation".

eriadoc
12-24-2007, 12:27 AM
TJ wasn't the only one to place blame on for this game.

Coaching is about decision making.

This really isn't about TJ as much as how Kubiak handled this situation. Which was very poorly. Same as his clock management skills.

There have been so many other situations in the past two years where fans have clamored for accountability. TJ did something stupid and hurt his team. He didn't lose the game for us, but he still hurt his team. He basically erased a potential drive-killing sack by Mario and then gave them 15 yards again later, after being warned after the first one. Accountability matters. Kubiak should have done it in house, I agree.

As for Kubiak's clock management skills, I can point out clock management gaffes by most of the other coaches in the league. I watch plenty of games, and at one point or another, wonder what the hell just about every coach was thinking. The bottom line is, they haven't lost games for us, and they haven't even cost us as badly as TJ's penalties today (or Pitts' false starts for YEARS).

Sidebar - how the hell does the CENTER get a false start? WTF was that? Anyway ....

I agree with your sentiment; I just don't see how you can come to the conclusion that you've reached. *shrug* No worries, though.

hollywood_texan
12-24-2007, 12:28 AM
I agree with that completely, and TJ shouldn't be made a scapegoat in any case. In agreeing to that, I still don't come to the same conclusions some of y'all appear to. Kubiak has made some mistakes along the way, but he hasn't cost us games. The players on the field have decided games. Today's loss is fresh in all our minds, but the bottom line is that the team has performed better under Kubiak than at any point in history, and that's with 17 players on IR, the best player missing half the season, and his main QB banged up for a few of the 11 games he played in. He was already dealing with a talent shortage, than on top of that, we lead the league in injuries. Some of the premier talent he does have is still young, raw, and has quite a ways to go. Mario is 21 or 22. Demeco is 21 or 22. Okoye is 20. Schaub is just into his first year with any significant playing time. This is Walter's first year with any significant playing time. OD is only in his second year. Winston is only in his second year.

With all of this, Kubiak has turned this offense into an NFL-caliber offense. It still has problems, but it's night versus day compared to anything we've ever seen here in Houston. 2004 was the closest, and that was for maybe half a season. The defense, which is not Kubiak's forte, as everyone already knows, can take over games at times. As they mature, they'll become even more of a force.

Kubiak will be fine.

Yes, the Texans are starting to score some quality points.

But, it's the same old song and dance when they play a good team, which is get their jocks handed to them.

Kubiak is an ok coach, but I don't see him has taking us to the playoffs in the next couple of years. Especially considering the conference and division we are in.

hollywood_texan
12-24-2007, 12:35 AM
haha, his clock management skills need work... but goddang, you're making mt. everest out of a coke line. i wouldn't even call it a "situation".

It's very poor management skills for a supervisor to call an employee out like that publicly.

Kubiak has every right to get after TJ for this stupid crap. Hell, put Ben Gay in TJ's jock for 5 weeks straight until he doesn't get flaged for a personal foul. Go for it, great idea.

But, the public doesn't need to know about it. Particarily, in the same game where a lot of other players contributed to same old song and dance loss seems foolish to be pointing fingers at anybody.

Kubiak just elaborated too much...

Which is poor decision making, and coaching is all about decision making.

281
12-24-2007, 12:44 AM
It's very poor management skills for a supervisor to call an employee out like that publicly.

Kubiak has every right to get after TJ for this stupid crap. Hell, put Ben Gay in TJ's jock for 5 weeks straight until he doesn't get flaged for a personal foul. Go for it, great idea.

But, the public doesn't need to know about it. Particarily, in the same game where a lot of other players contributed to same old song and dance loss seems foolish to be pointing fingers at anybody.

Kubiak just elaborated too much...

Which is poor decision making, and coaching is all about decision making.

in fairness to kubiak, i don't think he called him out actively, i think he was just answering a question... still, i don't blame him for singling TJ out... nobody else on the team had a personal foul. last i checked, this is NOT the first time TJ has been called out publicly by kubiak. i'm sure TJ can handle it, and if by some strange reason he thinks it's unwarranted, he's wrong.

dtran04
12-24-2007, 12:48 AM
None of the other guys are stupid enough to get personal fouls. TJ is 3rd in the league (or that's what was said) in getting called for personal fouls.

hollywood_texan
12-24-2007, 12:52 AM
in fairness to kubiak, i don't think he called him out actively, i think he was just answering a question... still, i don't blame him for singling TJ out... nobody else on the team had a personal foul. last i checked, this is NOT the first time TJ has been called out publicly by kubiak. i'm sure TJ can handle it, and if by some strange reason he thinks it's unwarranted, he's wrong.

Kubiak should just do it, not talk about it or give details, and let the media and the fans figure it out for themselves.

Joe Texan
12-24-2007, 06:24 AM
TJ's last PF was absolutely Bone Head and he knew it before he did it. Helmet to Helmet. I bet he gets fined and hopefully suspended. It was just plain Bone Head. Come on TJ, We have more people on the team than yourself, Have some respect.

aj.
12-24-2007, 06:36 AM
When the head coach admits being outcoached in his opening post-game comments, who's to argue? I don't think he was taking one for the team.

"We were just totally dominated. We were dominated by them in all three phases. We got outplayed, we got outcoached and we got our butt kicked big time.”

- Kubiaks opening statement during post game comments

I agree with him, especially in the context of the defensive game plan - whatever it was.

Joe Texan
12-24-2007, 06:42 AM
Man AJ, did we really have a defensive game plan, I thought our defense left after the first series.

bigbrewster2000
12-24-2007, 06:57 AM
When the head coach admits being outcoached in his opening post-game comments, who's to argue? I don't think he was taking one for the team.



I agree with him, especially in the context of the defensive game plan - whatever it was.
That is a pretty common answer by coaches when they get spanked, Shannahan said the same or similar thing last week when we beat Denver. I dont have a problem with those comments because they are true. However, some of you guys need to chill the heck out. Kubiak has done a good job with this team. Sure he makes mistakes but not really that often. Every coach makes mistakes it is just a matter of how he learns from them. He does not make the same mistakes over and over again so I think jumping all over Kubes when we lose and then not saying jack when he wins is petty.

aj.
12-24-2007, 07:21 AM
That is a pretty common answer by coaches when they get spanked.

That's why I said "I don't think he was taking one for the team" (because I think he believed it, and it wasn't lip service). Kubiak typically says things like 'we all need to get better - players, coaches, etc., but he typically doesn't play the 'outcoached' card.

However, some of you guys need to chill the heck out... I think jumping all over Kubes when we lose and then not saying jack when he wins is petty. .

If that's directed at me, I'd recommend that you to pay closer attention.

BattleRedToro
12-24-2007, 07:32 AM
That is a pretty common answer by coaches when they get spanked, Shannahan said the same or similar thing last week when we beat Denver. I dont have a problem with those comments because they are true. However, some of you guys need to chill the heck out. Kubiak has done a good job with this team. Sure he makes mistakes but not really that often. Every coach makes mistakes it is just a matter of how he learns from them. He does not make the same mistakes over and over again so I think jumping all over Kubes when we lose and then not saying jack when he wins is petty.

So is exaggerating Travis Johnson's personal foul issue. Travis Johnson only has 4 Personal Fouls for the entire season. It just so happens that 2 of them were in yesterday's game. Some of the people on this board are acting like he gets a Personal Foul every week and that's just not so.

If I remember correctly, Kubiak said something about needing to go back and look at the film. I'm sure that when he does he will agree with most others that the first call was ticky-tacky and not TJ's fault.

I sincerely doubt that Kubiak will get rid of Travis Johnson after this season. His play has improved, even though he isn't playing his natural position, 3 Technique Defensive Tackle. He has instead been playing Nose Tackle, a position he isn't ideally suited to playing. While I wouldn't mind seeing the Texans sign a real Nose Tackle, like an Albert Haynesworth, but I doubt that they can afford to do that with so many other needs on the team and their salary cap situation. I also doubt that they could do that and keep TJ, and I don't want them to get rid of TJ.

Thorn
12-24-2007, 07:38 AM
I didn't see the game, but after reading a lot of the comments, I am beginning to wonder folks really are trying to blame the loss on one person, which is pretty silly. The Texans just don't have what it takes to compete with the big boys yet, it's that plain and simple. TJ may be an ass, and he is, but he didn't lose the game for us.

From reading all the threads here it looks to be another team wide effort, including the coaching staff, on this loss.

whiskeyrbl
12-24-2007, 07:58 AM
If I were to try to blame one person it would be Richard Smith and his Defensive game plan, or lack of. How do you not press recievers at the line, or try to blitz Manning more than three times in a game. It can't be because he is scared they will get burned, they did anyway!!!! In all fairness this loss goes from McNair to the waterboys as who's to blame. We are not able to overcome our mistakes especially against teams with the capabilities of Indy. Kubes said before the season we were still 1 or 2 years away. I know it's frustrating to watch year in and year out, to be so close and watch it fade away. Hell some of us here remember the late 60's - early 70's with the Oilers, painfull. But when we went to the playoffs (a then record) 7 consecutive years it was really SWEET. Blow your steam out this week. Get ready for the Jags, just don't give up on what we are building here. Fine wine takes time.

HJam72
12-24-2007, 08:02 AM
We have a built in excuse anyway. It takes Ron Dayne to beat the Colts. :)

He's our Colt killer--only reason he's still in football (little exaggeration there).

TEXANRED
12-24-2007, 09:13 AM
I don't think that Kubes was blaming anyone for a loss. I think this is a collection of two years worth of personal fouls and defensive holding penalties.

TJ has a high motor, is aggressive, and doesn't have any quit. But he is a bone head. He has been in this league for three years now. He should know better.

TJ is a liability just like Peek was. TJ's penalties are the serious ones, defensive holding is an automatic first down, personal fouls are an automatic first down. Its hard to get off the field as a defensive unit if you keep doing things like that.

cuppacoffee
12-24-2007, 09:20 AM
So is exaggerating Travis Johnson's personal foul issue. Travis Johnson only has 4 Personal Fouls for the entire season. It just so happens that 2 of them were in yesterday's game. Some of the people on this board are acting like he gets a Personal Foul every week and that's just not so.

If I remember correctly, Kubiak said something about needing to go back and look at the film. I'm sure that when he does he will agree with most others that the first call was ticky-tacky and not TJ's fault.

I sincerely doubt that Kubiak will get rid of Travis Johnson after this season. His play has improved, even though he isn't playing his natural position, 3 Technique Defensive Tackle. He has instead been playing Nose Tackle, a position he isn't ideally suited to playing. While I wouldn't mind seeing the Texans sign a real Nose Tackle, like an Albert Haynesworth, but I doubt that they can afford to do that with so many other needs on the team and their salary cap situation. I also doubt that they could do that and keep TJ, and I don't want them to get rid of TJ.

Thank you Battle Red Toro.

Excellent post.

I feel that Kubiak threw TJ under the bus, therefore my rant against Kubiak.

I haven't noticed any posters on this site feeling the need to start a bogus
"Hey TJ... Manning just dissed your mamma thread" to help fire him up for a game.

Kubes has a lot to learn. We need more Travis Johnsons on this team.

I nominate myself for president of the Travis Johnson fan club.


:coffee:

The1ApplePie
12-24-2007, 09:21 AM
Maybe TJ can be traded for the fatass DT the Texans have always needed.

beerlover
12-24-2007, 09:24 AM
Late hits on the quarterback and other personal fouls have kept the defense on the field. its something Kubiak has to address the public release is up to debate, not sure if that was out of frustration, something that was building up throughout the season or not, but clearly TJ is the leader in the clubhouse in boneheaded penaltys. remember KC & Travis Johnson's taunting of Trent Green, lucky IMO that did'nt cost him more than a 15-yard penalty. this type of behavior just does not represent what the Texans organization is all about, clearly he has become that square peg trying to fit into a round hole.

Anyone venture a guess about his trade value? maybe package a deal with Weaver to aquire a 2nd rd. pick?

Specnatz
12-24-2007, 09:33 AM
Your taking one situation and making a point. I am looking at the total package of Kubiak, not just one game or one issue.

There is an old saying, people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

You wanna scapegoat TJ, fine.

Are these personal fouls an issue and a cost to the team, of course they are. But not really when you look at the big picture of what is going on and all the other problems there are.

Bottom line is Kubiak should have handled this in house. Calling a player out like that really isn't the best thing to do under any circumstance, doing it in this circumstance just seems foolish.
Besides, when does Kubiak give a straight answer anyway half the time?

Which brings me probably to the real issue, these two guys don't like each other. Which is probably why Kubiak said what he said, which shows is very poor coaching on his part if that is the case.

As every week goes by, it seems clear Kubiak is in over his head.

Next week will really be interesting to say the least...

How many times have I seen here that Kubiak a player is doing well and he is consistant and people blast Kubiak for giving a comapny line or not fully disclose injuries (like everyother damn team) and he is taken to task for it. Being blasted for not saying publicly a player did poorly when most everyone here thinks the player is sucking.

Now he calls a player out after being frustrated with the repeated flagerant fouls. It may not just be about this one instance but a compilation of all the penalties over the course of the season. Maybe Coach Kubiak is as frustrated as the rest of us with those penalties and he thought it needed to be address pubilcly. But since he is not a certain other D-Lineman he should not be called out publicly like others have wanted a certain other player called out publicly.

Besides not a single one of you know what conversations took place between TJ and Coach Kubiak after the first penalty.

b0ng
12-24-2007, 09:39 AM
TJ wasn't the only one to place blame on for this game.

Coaching is about decision making.

This really isn't about TJ as much as how Kubiak handled this situation. Which was very poorly. Same as his clock management skills.

What??? A coach calls out a player publicly for getting stupid penalties all season?!?! FIRE HIM

No really, Kubiak will be here next year and that's that. He's already gotten the team to tying it's best record Kubiak is going nowhere this offseason, or probably next barring a horrific meltdown.

TJ, on the otherhand, has underperformed significantly his entire career. And this "give a damn attitude" that some of you are slobbering over has only appeared this season, in his contract year. Get over it, TJ is a mediocre player at best, and gets really dumb drive sustaining penalties a lot more than he should at worst. I fully expect him to be wearing a different colored jersey at the start of next year.

But really, trying to say Kubiak is terrible because he slams one player at a press converence, LOL. Some of you posters on here are the ones that are "terrible".

threetoedpete
12-24-2007, 09:47 AM
TJ wasn't the only one to place blame on for this game.

Coaching is about decision making.

This really isn't about TJ as much as how Kubiak handled this situation. Which was very poorly. Same as his clock management skills.

Colts were very prepared and we were not. They knew what we were going to do befor we knew. The big problem I had with the game is that when they ran out the second and third team guys on their roster, we still could not compete with them. And that one falls squarly on the player's shoulders. The "our players were hurt" one doesn't fly either...they had guys out also. The bottom line was their oline manhandled our D-line. And our o-line barly registered a heart beat. We got beat by a much more tallented team. They litteraly beat us down.

Well on T.J. the bottom line is this is football. What I know this morning for a fact is there is one guy on this team who can not stand to loose, and that is Travis Johnson. If you don't have the stomache to rough up Manning a little bit...you're in the wrong sport, but are on the correct team.

This football team is soft.


It's coached soft, so it should be no surprise that it plays soft. Do you want Manning's head on a platter or not ? T.J. my not be an Einstien but he's got that one figured out. To beat the colts you gotta rough up manning a bit. You wanna beat'em fair and square, you don't wanna beat them bad enough...yet.

b0ng
12-24-2007, 09:54 AM
I'll ask everybody here, where was this "TJ has the I don't want to lose attitude" and "TJ is the only one who gives a damn" last season? Or the season before that? Was he the only one giving a damn while totally living up to his 1st round selection on the bench?

All of a sudden he's playing for a contract and he comes out and actually cracks the starting rotation and people are in love with the guy now? I just don't get it.

How much money do you guys think TJ is going to want this off season? What would you peeps re-sign him for?

threetoedpete
12-24-2007, 10:11 AM
I'll ask everybody here, where was this "TJ has the I don't want to lose attitude" and "TJ is the only one who gives a damn" last season? Or the season before that? Was he the only one giving a damn while totally living up to his 1st round selection on the bench?

All of a sudden he's playing for a contract and he comes out and actually cracks the starting rotation and people are in love with the guy now? I just don't get it.

How much money do you guys think TJ is going to want this off season? What would you peeps re-sign him for?

You will find no post of mine saying I'm in love with Travis Johnson. I understand the situation of where and how we aquired him. I undertand he turned the jets on this season for the contract. I have consitantly maintained that he is way over payed for what he brings to the table. And if he doesn't take a pay cut this off season they should cut him... out right.

However, he is not soft.

feebleminded
12-24-2007, 10:21 AM
You will find no post of mine saying I'm in love with Travis Johnson. I understand the situation of where and how we aquired him. I undertand he turned the jets on this season for the contract. I have consitantly maintained that he is way over payed for what he brings to the table. And if he doesn't take a pay cut this off season they should cut him... out right.

However, he is not soft.

The guy is under contract through 2011. He also has a base salary of around 700K next year.

I dont now what kind of contract he was playing for. More like playing not to be cut.

I don't know where it came from, but this idea that TJ is one if the highest paid players on the team is wrong.

Leahmic223
12-24-2007, 10:46 AM
Okay we get rid of TJ...who else has a mean streak on that defense?

Who else...most Championship teams have a rebel, all good teams do. We know Dunta isn't a nice guy on defense...but I think TJ is the only guy on our Dline that plays with the thought of "Someone's going to get hurt today."

I also really liked his play this season and Kubiak is fooling himself if he thought TJ hurt the team...okay Mario gets the sack...you know what would have happened...the Colts would throw for about 20 yards and get a first yard, our defense did not stop Manning once all game, everytime our defense made a stop it was because the Colts did something wrong this game.

I am not for getting rid of TJ. He knows he screwed up the guy just made a mistake. Just like our whole team did that day. TJs mistake though was in the heat of action the first one was ticky tack and full of BS, the second though understandable. Its not like he did it on purpose, he wouldn't hurt his team on purpose he just wasn't thinking at the time is all.

Also playing with that wreckless abandon during football usually is a good thing, I can't remember who said it Deacon, LT, or some other HOF Def player, but you have to be crazy to play football.

threetoedpete
12-24-2007, 10:47 AM
The guy is under contract through 2011. He also has a base salary of around 700K next year.

I dont now what kind of contract he was playing for. More like playing not to be cut.

I don't know where it came from, but this idea that TJ is one if the highest paid players on the team is wrong.

Link please.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=J&player=3814

Johnson, Travis
Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position
2007 Texans $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 355,280 $ 1,182,780 $ 1,630,780 DE
2006 Texans $ 350,000 $ 0 $ 5,215,940 $ 5,565,940 $ 1,397,940 DE
2005 Texans $ 230,000 $ 0 $ 1,060,000 $ 1,290,000 $ 1,290,000 DE


And I have never posted also, that he is the highest payed player on the team. What I have always posted is he is way overpaid for what he brings to the table. I stand by both points.

Texan_Bill
12-24-2007, 10:55 AM
A few more details:

7/30/2005: Signed a five-year, $10.2 million contract. The deal includes $7.77 million in guarantees. 2007: $435,000, 2008: $707,500, 2009: $1,030,000, 2010: $1,352,500, 2011: $1,675,000, 2012: Free Agent


Link: Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=3152)

cuppacoffee
12-24-2007, 11:00 AM
What??? A coach calls out a player publicly for getting stupid penalties all season?!?! FIRE HIM


You talking to me? :D

I re-read my posts. Don't see where I have called for anyones firing.

All season? Slight exaggeration, but expected.:shades:

No really, Kubiak will be here next year and that's that. He's already gotten the team to tying it's best record Kubiak is going nowhere this offseason, or probably next barring a horrific meltdown.

Tying its best record. Yeah...thats what he was brought here to do..:sarcasm:


TJ, on the otherhand, has underperformed significantly his entire career. And this "give a damn attitude" that some of you are slobbering over has only appeared this season, in his contract year. Get over it, TJ is a mediocre player at best, and gets really dumb drive sustaining penalties a lot more than he should at worst. I fully expect him to be wearing a different colored jersey at the start of next year.


Slobbering over? :rofl:

Regardless of his reason. TJ is playing much better this year, so yeah, lets get rid of him by all means.

But really, trying to say Kubiak is terrible because he slams one player at a press converence, LOL. Some of you posters on here are the ones that are "terrible".

You are right..I am so ashamed, I am so terrible...Kubiak is a keeper.

TJ should have stopped the Colts offense and given the ball back to our offensive juggernaut of a team. Oh..knocking Manning out of the game is one way of doing this. :idea:

Fifteen yards and a fine might be worth it. Happens all the time. ( see Shaub, Matt.. starting QB for the Houston Texans).

Nevermind .... that would ruin our image, other teams wouldn't look forward to playing against us anymore.

Run TJ out of town.

edit: I did not watch the game. At what point did TJs penalty occur. Was it early or was it late in the game, with Peyton still passing with a 35 15 lead? Inquiring mind has to ask.


:coffee:

feebleminded
12-24-2007, 11:04 AM
Link please.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=J&player=3814

Johnson, Travis
Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position
2007 Texans $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 355,280 $ 1,182,780 $ 1,630,780 DE
2006 Texans $ 350,000 $ 0 $ 5,215,940 $ 5,565,940 $ 1,397,940 DE
2005 Texans $ 230,000 $ 0 $ 1,060,000 $ 1,290,000 $ 1,290,000 DE

I think your link pretty much tells the story in that the salary numbers are at the minimums for experience, so I am not sure where the notion of TJ taking a haircut to his salary comes from.

Here are a couple more:
http://www.nflpa.org/Resources/ActivePlayerSearch.aspx?id=37303

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html

Are you are talking about the signing/ guaranteed roster bonus structure that came in the design of his rookie deal? That is water under the bridge; it is spent money.

Second Honeymoon
12-24-2007, 11:07 AM
Kubiak and the coaching staff did not have the Texans ready to play. Period.

Richard Smith got totally owned by Manning and the defensive gameplan was easily one of the worst ever....even for Smith (which is saying a lot)

Kubiak needs to lay off TJ and realize that he was playing hard and sometimes late hits happen. To be honest, any coach that isn't a little girl would have hoped for more late hits considering the Colts were throwing downfield up 30 points in the 2nd Half. I personally think we should have taken a run at someone (preferably Manning) to send a message that playing Madden-style football against us comes at a cost. I applaud TJ and Kubiak needs to grow a pair. Puhlease. This chivalry act is a joke.

Kubiak convinced the team to not quit after the Browns debacle, and for that he gets another year, but if the team continues to flatline through games at their present clip, the guy needs to find a new job because he would be considered a failure as head coach by all but the biggest homers.

Richard SMith needs to go this offseason though. He just isn't in the same planet much less the same league as some of the coaches in the league. Tom Moore and Manning completely pwned him....at least we will get a better draft pick because 8-8 or 9-7 means nothing to me. Playoffs or bust, baby.

Signed,
The Greatest Texans Fan, Me.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE FROM MY FAMILY AND I

feebleminded
12-24-2007, 11:16 AM
And I have never posted also, that he is the highest payed player on the team. What I have always posted is he is way overpaid for what he brings to the table. I stand by both points.

Ok I was under the impression that you wrote:

I undertand he turned the jets on this season for the contract. I have consitantly maintained that he is way over payed for what he brings to the table. And if he doesn't take a pay cut this off season they should cut him... out right.

That is what I responded to. 1) The dude is under contract through 2011.

2) The base salary is at the minimum for his playing experience.

DexmanC
12-24-2007, 11:17 AM
Besides, when does Kubiak give a straight answer anyway half the time?


He's the straightest shooter this team has ever had. Ever listen to his radio show, or press conferences?

nunusguy
12-24-2007, 11:25 AM
I think lack of focus and intensity was a far bigger problem in this game than
lack of preperation by Kubiak and his coachs. Of course, that's sorta the same thing when one gets right down to it. And I do agree with those who think TJ was basically a scapegoat. One of those PFs was just a bad call.
I also wonder why they left DeMeco in the game if his production was that
meager ? He's now a PB, 'cmon coach he doesn't have to prove anything at this point. If he's hurt, get him out of there and let your rookie backer Zack Diles get some experience.

cuppacoffee
12-24-2007, 11:45 AM
Kubiak and the coaching staff did not have the Texans ready to play. Period.

Richard Smith got totally owned by Manning and the defensive gameplan was easily one of the worst ever....even for Smith (which is saying a lot)

Kubiak needs to lay off TJ and realize that he was playing hard and sometimes late hits happen. To be honest, any coach that isn't a little girl would have hoped for more late hits considering the Colts were throwing downfield up 30 points in the 2nd Half. I personally think we should have taken a run at someone (preferably Manning) to send a message that playing Madden-style football against us comes at a cost. I applaud TJ and Kubiak needs to grow a pair. Puhlease. This chivalry act is a joke.

Kubiak convinced the team to not quit after the Browns debacle, and for that he gets another year, but if the team continues to flatline through games at their present clip, the guy needs to find a new job because he would be considered a failure as head coach by all but the biggest homers.

Richard SMith needs to go this offseason though. He just isn't in the same planet much less the same league as some of the coaches in the league. Tom Moore and Manning completely pwned him....at least we will get a better draft pick because 8-8 or 9-7 means nothing to me. Playoffs or bust, baby.

Signed,
The Greatest Texans Fan, Me.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE FROM MY FAMILY AND I


What the hell is going on here. :thumbup

Me and SH are in complete agreement about something.:yahoo:

Must be the Christmas season...:D

Merry Christmas to all.

:coffee:

hollywood_texan
12-24-2007, 12:27 PM
What??? A coach calls out a player publicly for getting stupid penalties all season?!?! FIRE HIM

No really, Kubiak will be here next year and that's that. He's already gotten the team to tying it's best record Kubiak is going nowhere this offseason, or probably next barring a horrific meltdown.

TJ, on the otherhand, has underperformed significantly his entire career. And this "give a damn attitude" that some of you are slobbering over has only appeared this season, in his contract year. Get over it, TJ is a mediocre player at best, and gets really dumb drive sustaining penalties a lot more than he should at worst. I fully expect him to be wearing a different colored jersey at the start of next year.

But really, trying to say Kubiak is terrible because he slams one player at a press converence, LOL. Some of you posters on here are the ones that are "terrible".

I never said to fire Kubiak, go read all most posts. At least get it straight.

Kubiak is shaping up to be a mediocre coach. Sure, I understand he will probably be around for 2 more years, it really doesn't matter to me. Do you realize that the Texans under Kubiak have about a winless record against teams that are above .500? I don't know the number, but most of the wins are coming against team that are below .500!

Bottom line is, Kubiak shouldn't be calling any player out that hurts the team given how the entire team just gave up last Sunday. If you really look at who hurts the team, not just looking at personal foul penalties, we definitely wouldn't have a defensive coordinator and several other players.

You handle this type of stuff by action, plain and simple. Bench him a game, make him inactive, and let the media and fans figure it out for themselves.

David Carr did a lot more last year to hold back this team back, and Kubiak didn't say one word. Which brings me to my opinion, it's personal between Kubiak and TJ. These probably just don't like each other. It's happens, but a head coach in the NFL should handle it a lot better.

I am not sticking up for TJ or that this issue shouldn't be resolved. It's poor management skills by Kubiak to discuss this situation they way he did.

Of course TJ is not the best player on the team, but who is going to take his place that is going to better than him? We are kind of stuck with it. It's such a poor bluff at this stage of the season. Maybe he was referring to the offseason?

Who knows, Kubiak is just in over his head...

Second Honeymoon
12-24-2007, 01:39 PM
What the hell is going on here. :thumbup

Me and SH are in complete agreement about something.:yahoo:

Must be the Christmas season...:D

Merry Christmas to all.

:coffee:

maybe its karma. my brother just got engaged to his girlfriend who is a Notre Dame alumni/legacy so maybe we will be on the same wavelength more in the future. my brother and her are expecting a baby in August so there will be a little Notre Dame golden domer/Baylor golden bear hybrid running err crawling around come next Christmas. i haven't cried in a while but yesterday i was bawling with joy upon receiving the news. it was a nice pick-me-up after the abomination we were all subjected to from the RCA Dome.

GO NOTRE DAME!!
GO BAYLOR!!

oh and Texas Fight!! holiday bowl, here we come..............again.

austintexanite
12-24-2007, 01:42 PM
I doubt that TJ will be cut next year. Kubiak and he will probably have a nice chat this week to sort out what the problem is. I don't like the fact that Kubes said those comments in public, it should have been done in house, but I like the message. The message being that you are held accountable for your actions, and I also don't think that Kubiak was blaming the loss on TJ but just pointing out that the reason we're not at an elite level is because we make bonehead mistakes whereas Championship teams rarely do. :texflag:

Second Honeymoon
12-24-2007, 01:46 PM
I doubt that TJ will be cut next year. Kubiak and he will probably have a nice chat this week to sort out what the problem is. I don't like the fact that Kubes said those comments in public, it should have been done in house, but I like the message. The message being that you are held accountable for your actions, and I also don't think that Kubiak was blaming the loss on TJ but just pointing out that the reason we're not at an elite level is because we make bonehead mistakes whereas Championship teams rarely do. :texflag:

i think our coaching staff prevents us from being an elite team as much if not more than our level of talent on the field. you gotta have talent in the booth and on the sideline and I just dont see it. it's a dimestore 3rd rate coaching staff and it shows on the field on a weekly basis.

can Kubiak ever beat a quality team? after 2 years, he has had one quality win and that was against a playoff bound Colts team with little to play for.

austintexanite
12-24-2007, 03:20 PM
I agree that Kubiak has had his share of WTF moments, but overall I still keep him as our HC. However, I think we do need a DC that can gameplan consistent pressure. I'm not saying to blitz all the time, but enough where you have to keep the other team honest and guessing what we are doing.

beerlover
12-24-2007, 03:28 PM
I doubt that TJ will be cut next year. Kubiak and he will probably have a nice chat this week to sort out what the problem is. I don't like the fact that Kubes said those comments in public, it should have been done in house, but I like the message. The message being that you are held accountable for your actions, and I also don't think that Kubiak was blaming the loss on TJ but just pointing out that the reason we're not at an elite level is because we make bonehead mistakes whereas Championship teams rarely do. :texflag:

I firmly beleive TJ is trade bait & as stated earlier for different reasons (salary cap considerations) Anthony Weaver.

beerlover
12-24-2007, 03:32 PM
i think our coaching staff prevents us from being an elite team as much if not more than our level of talent on the field. you gotta have talent in the booth and on the sideline and I just dont see it. it's a dimestore 3rd rate coaching staff and it shows on the field on a weekly basis.

can Kubiak ever beat a quality team? after 2 years, he has had one quality win and that was against a playoff bound Colts team with little to play for.

you gotta be kidding me :shades: what a classless, haven't got a clue, bah-humm-bug Christmas for anyone who thinks this coaching staff is the reason why the Texans are not an elite team. 3rd rate coaching staff my :bat:

StarStruck
12-24-2007, 03:46 PM
Kubes need to back off of TJ and not threatenen his livlihood. The man's got to eat, and god don't like ugly.
;)

dtran04
12-24-2007, 06:30 PM
Read the presser on the website. Kubiak clearly states he thinks the first call was a bad one. He agreed the 2nd one was late.

CloakNNNdagger
12-24-2007, 08:07 PM
I agree that Kubiak has had his share of WTF moments, but overall I still keep him as our HC. However, I think we do need a DC that can gameplan consistent pressure. I'm not saying to blitz all the time, but enough where you have to keep the other team honest and guessing what we are doing.

I'd have to ask myself how much worse could we have looked with a scheme based on proponderance of blitzing..........at least, it would have added elements of guessing, surprise and possibly success. As it was, we were left with predictability, boredom and humiliation.

Joe Texan
12-24-2007, 08:23 PM
We could not get the defense together with Capers either. A lot of the problem is Dunta being gone. Remember he is the Heart and Soul of the Defense.

Pantherstang84
12-24-2007, 08:32 PM
Well. I can see Hollywood's point. I said as much after Schaub got bull-dogged into the ground at Hillbillyville. THe Hillbillies figured out how to keep Schaub from beating them.

Personally, I think this team needs more piss and vinegar like TJ brings. I want the Texans to stop being the team everyone looks forward to playing.

I'm of the opinion that the only way to beat Jesus Manning is to put him on the sideline, locker room, ambulance, anywhere but on the field. Too bad TJ wasn't successful.

If that makes me classless, so be it. I still sleep at night.

Leahmic223
12-24-2007, 09:27 PM
I'd have to ask myself how much worse could we have looked with a scheme based on proponderance of blitzing..........at least, it would have added elements of guessing, surprise and possibly success. As it was, we were left with predictability, boredom and humiliation.

I don't get why we are not blitzing...our secondary can't cover anyone anyhow so might as well get the guy who is throwing it instead of waiting for him to find a guy wide open for 10+ yard passes all game.

CloakNNNdagger
12-24-2007, 09:34 PM
I don't get why we are not blitzing...our secondary can't cover anyone anyhow so might as well get the guy who is throwing it instead of waiting for him to find a guy wide open for 10+ yard passes all game.

That's exactly what I was getting at..................at least, until anything significant changes.:ok:

mexican_texan
12-24-2007, 09:45 PM
I didn't watch many plays, but on one play when Indy scored, I think it was Kenton Keith, DeMeco looked to be in unbearable pain.

dtran04
12-24-2007, 10:12 PM
They tried to blitz plenty of times. Problem is, the Texans' blitzers are TERRIBLE. Sending Morlon Greenwood and Charlie Anderson scares nobody. Then again, Peyton sniffed out every single one of them. He clearly pointed them out, and ran plays the other way. Even I could tell who was blitzing. The safeties moved too soon and it just gave away their positioning.

BigBull17
12-24-2007, 10:24 PM
Our defense definately got outcoached. Peyton must've been licking his chops when he saw the cushion our bend but dont break DC was letting our corners give their WRs. Particularly on 3rd down.

How can you get a pass rush going when all Peyton has to do is throw the ball as soon as he gets it and he'll get a 1st down because his WRs are getting a 5 yard cushion on 3rd and 4?

My thoughts exactly. Why run a weak zone with Harrison out? You cant play zone vs the Colts and expect anything else. They will disect you over and over with out mercy. The only way you do beat them has been shown. You blitz and take your lumps. They will kill any soft, blanket zone coverage. You HAVE to get pressure on Peyton and bump the WR. Its the only way. You wont get the pressure with a 4 man rush, ever. Not with the 18 yard cusion you give. I know our DB's arent good, but giving up 30 play drives isnt the way to "protect" them.

adam
12-24-2007, 10:29 PM
Said simple, T.J. makes too many mistakes on a team that has very few to spare. He is more of a liability than an asset, I would mind seeing Zgogina (a seasoned veteran) fill in for him for the rest of the season.

Imatexanfan
12-24-2007, 10:42 PM
"We were just totally dominated. We were dominated by them in all three phases. We got outplayed, we got outcoached and we got our butt kicked big time.”

- Kubiaks opening statement during post game comments

You know he's right at an extent and yet I get the feeling that they were getting back at us for last year. Maybe Kubes should have thought about that huh bring his "A" game.....right. With all the injuries and so forth good job, heres an "A" for team effort...hilarious.:user:

Maddict5
12-25-2007, 06:59 AM
kubiak's monday presser just killed this thread

infantrycak
12-25-2007, 08:30 AM
kubiak's monday presser just killed this thread

Yup, dead thread walking from the time it was started:

(on the personal fouls against DT Travis Johnson) “The first one, the roughing, I don’t see it. I don’t know what the kid did wrong. It will be interesting to see that the league says. I think it was a mistake. I think the call was a mistake. The kid was just playing ball, Mario (Williams) makes a good play, whatever, but I disagree with that one. The other one, he’s a little late. It’s the first play of the second half. We just walked out of the locker room and it wasn’t fun in there at halftime and we came out to be aggressive. I like the kid’s aggression. He knows he can’t hurt the team. He was a little late so it was a mistake on his part.”

CloakNNNdagger
12-25-2007, 08:43 AM
My thoughts exactly. Why run a weak zone with Harrison out? You cant play zone vs the Colts and expect anything else. They will disect you over and over with out mercy. The only way you do beat them has been shown. You blitz and take your lumps. They will kill any soft, blanket zone coverage. You HAVE to get pressure on Peyton and bump the WR. Its the only way. You wont get the pressure with a 4 man rush, ever. Not with the 18 yard cusion you give. I know our DB's arent good, but giving up 30 play drives isnt the way to "protect" them.


Let's see.........if I remember, we picked up Mario for the sole purpose of getting to Manning and beating the Colts. I don't understand why we would need blitzing packages or a well-constructed game plan or a coaching staff that can recognize the need for interim game plan adjustment...................after all, we've got Mario..........and we still didn't win.............go figure...........I just can't understand it.

Leahmic223
12-25-2007, 10:36 AM
Let's see.........if I remember, we picked up Mario for the sole purpose of getting to Manning and beating the Colts. I don't understand why we would need blitzing packages or a well-constructed game plan or a coaching staff that can recognize the need for interim game plan adjustment...................after all, we've got Mario..........and we still didn't win.............go figure...........I just can't understand it.

Happy Holidays...

BTW just having Mario isn't enough, the secondary actually has to cover a guy for a second or two for Mario to get a sack. Peyton has great pocket presence, if he sees a sack coming he's going to avoid it at all costs. There are not many teams that beat Peyton with their front four, not even the Jags were able.

You have to play the WR physical, you have to confuse him and hit him every now and then, and your offense Has to score somehow.

There are alot of teams that have played the Colts one team that beat them the Pats because they have everything. The Chargers...because they have blitzers AND they have that ball hawking CB. Mario can't do it by himself. But I think your post was a bit of a shot at the coaching staff I guess, I just wanted to say that.

Vinny
12-25-2007, 10:42 AM
kubiak's monday presser just killed this thread

Yup, dead thread walking from the time it was started:(on the personal fouls against DT Travis Johnson) “The first one, the roughing, I don’t see it. I don’t know what the kid did wrong. It will be interesting to see that the league says. I think it was a mistake. I think the call was a mistake. The kid was just playing ball, Mario (Williams) makes a good play, whatever, but I disagree with that one. The other one, he’s a little late. It’s the first play of the second half. We just walked out of the locker room and it wasn’t fun in there at halftime and we came out to be aggressive. I like the kid’s aggression. He knows he can’t hurt the team. He was a little late so it was a mistake on his part.”

Yeah, I was in the game thread and made the same comment Kubiak did (http://texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=810171&postcount=222) about what I considered a bad call on TJ in real time. I didn't think the second play was all that smart but at least Kubiak was tearing up their backsides at the half. I know it didn't help the team overcome a year of bad 3rd quarters....but at least he isn't in there looking at his feet.

dtran04
12-25-2007, 10:44 AM
When did Manning actually have to hold the ball? Maybe once or twice and he got sacked as a result. He probably has a much harder time playing Madden then he did yesterday.

Vinny
12-25-2007, 10:48 AM
When did Manning actually have to hold the ball? Maybe once or twice and he got sacked as a result. He probably has a much harder time playing Madden then he did yesterday.Manning did a good job of sliding around the pocket because there were a few times I thought we had good pressure but Manning made smart, subtle moves and bought himself a beat or two. A lesser QB gets sacked a couple of times methinks.

dtran04
12-25-2007, 11:07 AM
Manning did a good job of sliding around the pocket because there were a few times I thought we had good pressure but Manning made smart, subtle moves and bought himself a beat or two. A lesser QB gets sacked a couple of times methinks.

Oh of course. This team desperately needs a good blitzing LB besides Demeco.

TheRealJoker
12-25-2007, 11:10 AM
Manning did a good job of sliding around the pocket because there were a few times I thought we had good pressure but Manning made smart, subtle moves and bought himself a beat or two. A lesser QB gets sacked a couple of times methinks.

Enter Jay Cutler

Double Barrel
12-26-2007, 06:34 PM
Getting beat by the Colts is something we are quite accustomed to around here. It really came as no surprise that we lost to the Super Bowl Champions again. I just wish we had minimized our mistakes and played with more focus.

As far as TJ is concerned, I will be surprised if he is NOT a Texan next season. Our D-line should be fearsome next year.

Maddict5
12-26-2007, 07:18 PM
Getting beat by the Colts is something we are quite accustomed to around here. It really came as no surprise that we lost to the Super Bowl Champions again. I just wish we had minimized our mistakes and played with more focus.

As far as TJ is concerned, I will be surprised if he is NOT a Texan next season. Our D-line should be fearsome next year.


agreed... i fully expect amobi to become a kevin williams-type impact DT next year, mario should continue to improve and travis does a fine job at what he does- i like his intensity and spirit.

and i think kubiak knows we have to move weaver on.. whether its to free agency, dt or backup role. we really need a decent bookend pass rusher to mario cos hes done it all on his own this yr

question of the day- weaver has played here for two yrs- played in 30 games, how many sacks does he have? (i know sacks arent the be all and end all but he doesnt have many hurries either iirc so take a guess):cowboy1:

BattleRedToro
12-27-2007, 06:35 AM
The biggest problem with Weaver seems to be that he can't get healthy. He has had this recurring shoulder problem for what seems like 2 seasons now.

I know he is a hard worker and a real quality individual, but if he can't stay healthy I don't know how the Texans can keep him due to the salary cap.

If it weren't for the salary cap they could wait on a player like Weaver to heal up, but with the salary cap they can't.

Maddict5
12-27-2007, 10:58 AM
answer: 1 sack.. over two yrs = pathetic

infantrycak
01-03-2008, 04:50 PM
Don't remember seeing this posted:

Johnson was flagged earlier in the game for a late hit on Colts quarterback Peyton Manning. Kubiak says the league now says that call was a mistake.

"I said I thought the first one was a no call, which the league said it was," Kubiak said. "They said they were wrong.

"You feel bad for the kid from that standpoint. The second play he's a little bit late on the play.

"I love his effort," Kubiak said. "That's part of the game."


Link (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5338384&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.1.1)

I wish the teams would discuss more about what the NFL says were bad calls.

76Texan
01-03-2008, 05:21 PM
I think TJ has made some progress. I'd rather to see him get hit with a penalty to set an agressive tone for the D (as long as it's not dirty).
But he still has to get better, sooner.

Weaver, I think, is not "really" asked to go after the QB. More as containment, so that other guys can do that (including Babin and Peek last year) like Mario, Okoye, Cochran, Orr, and some LB or safety on a blitz.

I recall a sack by Orr very early in the year. Weaver should have been credited for half a sack, or at least a quarter of the sack, because he flushed the QB to the other side.

He even dropped back on a few pass plays.

powerfuldragon
01-03-2008, 06:04 PM
man... and i'd just taken a liking tj. i'd hate to see him go.