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Revolution
12-22-2007, 07:24 AM
The Rams are saying what a good job Linehan has done with "so many injuries". Wow, maybe Kubiak should be up for coach of the year...

Rams president John Shaw said on Dec. 10 that Linehan would be back, and that it was unfair to judge job performance because the team has had so many injuries. The Rams have 11 players on injured reserve, including three offensive line starters and top pass rusher Leonard Little.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80552f10&template=without-video&confirm=true

The main topic of the article is how Torry Holt went off on Linehan on the sideline, but the above quote made me think about the job Kubiak has done.

mancunian
12-22-2007, 07:31 AM
Kubiak has done a great jon especially as we have 16 - 17 players on IR. And Andre missed 7 games.

GuerillaBlack
12-22-2007, 08:12 AM
The Texans next season will have a Brown-like season and make the playoffs with four to six losses.

powerfuldragon
12-22-2007, 08:25 AM
A would mean playoffs... he'd get an a if we reach the playoffs next year even...


he's been doing swell considering he took over a team that went 2 - 14


edit-- after rereading, this one hit me
d'you think the word swell came from a colloquialized version of 'so well'?

Brando
12-22-2007, 09:44 AM
I think with the injury situation and Rick Smith finding players to fit the needs of the team, I think both have done a great job this year. Both get an A.

TEXANRED
12-22-2007, 10:02 AM
Unable to vote b/c the season is not over yet.

To this point he has done a C job. .500 is average , a C is average.

If he goes 7-9 it will be a D.

If he goes 8-8 it will remain a C

If he goes 9-7 it will go to a B.

The only way that he would have gotten an A is if we made the playoffs.

I fully expect an A job next year.

adam
12-22-2007, 10:10 AM
Given the massive amount of injuries, I would give him a B. He has made some questionable decisions, but he is still learning the ways of being an NFL coach. I think he is going to be a fine coach for a number of years to come. To finish .500 would be an amazing feat considering that we are playing with a team that is basically composed of spare parts.

SA Texan
12-22-2007, 10:14 AM
Overall, I think he deserves a B. He has had to overcome a lot with all of the injuries and still had this team in the playoff hunt up until last week. To me that is saying something.
He is a young coach and is going to make mistakes, but is going to continue to improve also. I see playoffs next season.

beerlover
12-22-2007, 10:24 AM
are the Texans headed in the right direction? is there a better coach or one you would rather see walking the sidelines, making the decisions :specnatz:

not really :fans:

regardless of record, the Texans are playing cohesive team ball on both sides buying into the system eliminating silly turnovers (plaqued team ealier in season) demonstrating improvement & better execution. given the talent available players are working their butts off, there is no complaining (at least what we hear of) & maximizing talent. seems like excellent coaching to me - A

eriadoc
12-22-2007, 10:31 AM
The offense has improved both years that he has been in charge, despite the well documented problems. He hasn't drafted much on offense, yet he has still improved the team in that area. The defense has improved as well. He's drafted more premium talent for that side of the ball, but you have to give him credit for doing that. Overall, the team is headed in the right direction, and has shown clear signs of improvement. There have been a couple games this year that really had me down, but with injuries, lack of production from key spots, and a shortage of talent in a few areas, he's done an outstanding job.

The1ApplePie
12-22-2007, 10:44 AM
Everyone thought his ass was going to be fired midway through the season, so he has done a great job.

I figured we would be debating Cowher vs Marty right now

Wolf
12-22-2007, 11:09 AM
I give him a "B" esp with the am't of injuries

One thing is for sure, Kubiak has this team playing no matter what and they don't quit no matter who is injured
beginning of the season

if you gave me an IR list and told me what happened, and our record is what it is.. I'd have laughed at you

Vinny
12-22-2007, 11:35 AM
This season has been a bit of a roller coaster and I've been unhappy at the product at times (inconsistent play) but at the start of the year I figured we would be a .500 team and we are pretty much on course for that so while Kubiak hasn't been able to exceed expecations he hasn't really put out a product that has been a dissapointment. I'd just like us to keep playing physical football and find a few more key players and continue to build our depth this offseason so we can make our first playoff run next year....so I guess I'm happy with Kubiak and this regime since they are what I thought they were....more or less.

tulexan
12-22-2007, 11:47 AM
I give him a high B. He has been far from perfect, but has done well considering the injuries we've had. He still needs to work on clock management and dumb challenges, but I think he's heading in the right direction.

Maddict5
12-22-2007, 12:11 PM
Unable to vote b/c the season is not over yet.

To this point he has done a C job. .500 is average , a C is average.
If he goes 7-9 it will be a D.

If he goes 8-8 it will remain a C

If he goes 9-7 it will go to a B.

The only way that he would have gotten an A is if we made the playoffs.

I fully expect an A job next year.

An A is almost perfect so, using your logic, wouldnt we have to go 16-0 or 15-1 or something for him to get that :sarcasm:

i give him a B and i thought that was pretty harsh.. i think gary's an excellent coach and think hes turning this ship around pretty fast and hes doing it the right way- no quick fixes or shortcuts.. building around a strong D which is difficult to do.. been right about most of the big decisions. the only big 'miss' hes made in my book (hence the B) is the weaver contract

Maddict5
12-22-2007, 12:17 PM
I give him a high B. He has been far from perfect, but has done well considering the injuries we've had. He still needs to work on clock management and dumb challenges, but I think he's heading in the right direction.


actually id just agree with this... we can b1tch about small things he does like the challenges or occassional conservativeness (word?) but in the grand scheme of things, hes a guy who the players seem to like and play hard for and imo like shanahan said hes a guy that more often than not have put our guys in good positions to win... we've beaten teams that look better than us on paper and we're starting to finally become relevant in the nfl
:texflag:

TexansLucky13
12-22-2007, 12:27 PM
Where is option G for Godlike?

rollinstone18
12-22-2007, 01:06 PM
Playcalling/Clock Management/Challenges

Kubiak has just been plain outcoached at times, the Jacksonville and San Diego games come to mind. And the Atlanta game was just embarrassing.

But I gave him a B. Kubes seems to be a player's coach, he gets the best out of 'em. The injuries were too much to overcome. Had Andre played every game I think our record would be better.

kiwitexansfan
12-22-2007, 01:08 PM
I would the combined efforts of Kubiak and Smith a B+.

A for the GM, B for the Coach.

I am pleased with how the season went, being in the hunt till late, at least equalling our best record, continuing to add contributors, other players coming on, what isn't to appreciate.

We fell short of the playoffs, so it can't be an A yet.

beerlover
12-22-2007, 01:27 PM
We fell short of the playoffs, so it can't be an A yet.

with all the injurys? coming off a 2-14 & 6-10 seasons respectivley the Texans where expected to still make the playoffs? is that realistic & how could Kubiak have done more with what he had to work with? inquiring minds want to know :this:

IMO.....the Texans win one of the last two games (both extremely difficult teams to beat) & finish the season 8-8, I'd call that exceeding expectations with outstanding effort in all phases of the organization :)

ObsiWan
12-22-2007, 01:35 PM
All things considered, he's done B- work.

We play in the toughest division in all of the NFL; bar none. Think about it, we're 7-3 outside the division. If we were in any NFC division, I'm convinced we'd be in position for a playoff spot if not the division title.

Kubiak and the coaching staff have made the Texans grudgingly respectable - you all know "they" give us little respect. We're that other team in Texas. Kinda like the Clippers are that other team in L.A.
And they have done this
(1) with no marque' RB, Ahman Green has basically been a non-factor nearly all year. That we got ANY sort of running game out of Dayne and a bunch of whodats goes in the plus column when I grade
(2) an "unproven" starting QB that most talking heads said (at the beginning of the season) that we paid waaay too much for,
(3) a suspect O-line ("bad" according to those same talking heads),
(4) a very suspect and, by mid-season, makeshift secondary,
(5) a very young defense (run by a no-name defensive coordinator), and
(6) according to all accounts, only one real offensive weapon. Did I mention that our "only offensive weapon" was hurt for 7 straight games?

Yeah, all things considered, the coaching staff deserves at least a B-.

AnthonyE
12-22-2007, 02:38 PM
B for both years averages out to a B for the whole tenure.

Last year he gave us something to hope for, going 6-10 with Carr.

This year he's made some idiotic mistakes that's been pissing most of us off, but right now he's doing a helluva job with the injuries and all.

The Pencil Neck
12-22-2007, 03:06 PM
Everyone thought his ass was going to be fired midway through the season, so he has done a great job.

I figured we would be debating Cowher vs Marty right now

Define "everyone". I think by "everyone" you actually mean "The1ApplePie" and that's about it.

Kubiak has done a very good job but just not quite good enough for an A. We had that letdown during the middle of the season. If we had kept it together against the Jags, Titans, and Chargers, he would have gotten an A... and we'd probably be in the playoffs.

However, it was mid-December and we were in the play-off hunt. That's the first time that's happened.

I think we're going to be good next year but let's wait and see what happens (remember the 7-9 season). If we have another 2-14 meltdown, then I guess he'll be gone.

But I like him and I want him to do well. I think we're moving in the right direction even if a couple of choices haven't worked out like we would have liked.

Maddict5
12-22-2007, 03:46 PM
Everyone thought his ass was going to be fired midway through the season, so he has done a great job.

I figured we would be debating Cowher vs Marty right now

wow a sneaky anti-kubiak post from apple.. what can i say? i didnt see it coming, im flabbergasted. and he isnt going anywhere anytime soon no matter how much (to once again quote dunta) sheeeeeeeeeeet you spout

B for both years averages out to a B for the whole tenure.

Last year he gave us something to hope for, going 6-10 with Carr.

This year he's made some idiotic mistakes that's been pissing most of us off, but right now he's doing a helluva job with the injuries and all.

i think thats a little harsh.. idiotic= lovie smith on MNF. questionable yes but i wouldnt call any of his moves idiotic

WWJD
12-22-2007, 04:45 PM
He's done a fine job although his clock management skills sometimes are worrisome at times. Particularly for a guy that's been in the league as long as he has....but overall he's been solid.

Revolution
12-22-2007, 08:00 PM
Unable to vote b/c the season is not over yet.

To this point he has done a C job. .500 is average , a C is average.

If he goes 7-9 it will be a D.

If he goes 8-8 it will remain a C

If he goes 9-7 it will go to a B.

The only way that he would have gotten an A is if we made the playoffs.

I fully expect an A job next year.

I think you have to factor in more than wins and losses.

If Capers had coached this team with all these injuries, I guarantee no more than 4 wins this year. I see the way the team plays with passion and never gives up. He is exceeding my expectations to this point.

b0ng
12-22-2007, 08:17 PM
I want to give him an A, but with keeping Petey Faggins in as long as he did, keeping Green off IR as long as he did before he gave Walker a shot, ugh.

It's really close, the results have been fantastic, in comparison to recent years and I like the way the team looks. I really think that he waited too long to let Smith start doing whatever he wanted with the defense, and all of the blitzing is showing forth now.

Then you have some questionable clock management, horrific challenge efficiency, and ball protection issues.

It's a solid and very high B for me.

The1ApplePie
12-22-2007, 08:18 PM
Define "everyone". I think by "everyone" you actually mean "The1ApplePie" and that's about it.

Kubiak has done a very good job but just not quite good enough for an A. We had that letdown during the middle of the season. If we had kept it together against the Jags, Titans, and Chargers, he would have gotten an A... and we'd probably be in the playoffs.



http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43846&highlight=Marty

Maddict5
12-22-2007, 08:53 PM
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43846&highlight=Marty


a few (6?) guys venting when we were struggling... what do most of them think now i wonder?

edo783
12-22-2007, 09:29 PM
Solid "B".

beerlover
12-22-2007, 09:36 PM
how many head coaching jobs in the NFL has Gary Kubiak had? how many years with head coaching experience? did he inherit a winning team led by a franchise QB?

excatly. nada

early on it was easy to be critical because of our conditioning & frustration, fans venting :drunk:

then a funny thing happen'ed, the team started coming together & playing as if they never lost 17 players to IR. they stopped worrying about what might have been & just kept working, getting better & believing in the offensive & defensive game planning. then they started winning. everyone played a key role in this transformation, but I think Gary above all others took the responsiblity, no the blame for everything. not just the loses, the playcalling, subjecting players not yet ready or healthy to play, for making challenges not for the sake of winning or overturning the call but to send a message. the message is "I believe in this football team" now the football team beleives in him, funny how that works :shades:

winning will lay this discussion to rest, but its safe to say, Gary Kubiak has learned from his mistakes, his retention curve & ability to learn from those mistakes is amazing. fellow Texans fans we are witnessing the transformation of a really exceptional young NFL head coach against imposing odds, all the while hes done it with class and the mutual respect of his associates/players.

lets revist this thead tomorrow after the Colts game & if the Texans lose may I have half the class of Kubiak (Texans will win).

Hervoyel
12-22-2007, 09:38 PM
I believe that you must factor the injuries into any kind of grade and so I gave him a "B" for the year. I came close to giving him a "C" because of a handful of specific issues like his utter inability to challenge a call (will someone please take the red flag away from Gary) and a couple of games where the team simply was not ready to play (Atlanta, Cleveland, Tennessee). In those games the Texans didn't lose because they had guys on injured reserve and they didn't lose because Andre Johnson was on the sidelines. They lost because they played sloppy football.

Kubiak has salvaged what I had considered a low "D" following the second Tennessee game but the last two games will say a lot about him as a leader. If the Texans lose these two games I won't call him a failure because honestly, the Colts and Jaguars to wrap up the season is a tall order. If they lose those games and look unprepared to play then I'm going to have to say that Gary Kubiak deserves an "F" because he can't consistently get his team ready to play.

If they win either one of them and do so looking like they should have won (no fluke -5 yards passing wins allowed) then I'm thinking the "B" is an accurate grade. Normally I'd agree that a .500 record is a "C" but like I said at the start of this post you must take injuries into account.

thunderkyss
12-22-2007, 10:33 PM
Kubiak has done a great jon especially as we have 16 - 17 players on IR. And Andre missed 7 games.

In spite of Andre missing 7 games, I'd say he's done a good job. But that's just me.

Let me explain why.

Everyone who went down this year, with the exception of Andre has been replaced with someone who's just as good. then that means Kubiak & Smith has done a great job finding replacements, right??

Not so fast.

We suck. for the most part, our talent level is in the garbage.

We didn't have Ahman Green for most of the year. Big deal, it's not like he was tearing it up or anything.

Mckinney, Weary.. Earl...

Don't get me wrong, I like the guys, because they are all Texans. But honestly, how hard was it to replace these guys??

It's not like they were Orlando Pace, or Ed Reed.

b0ng
12-22-2007, 11:01 PM
Mckinney, Weary.. Earl...

Don't get me wrong, I like the guys, because they are all Texans. But honestly, how hard was it to replace these guys??

It's not like they were Orlando Pace, or Ed Reed.

You're talking about replacing starters on our team. Earl was replaced with Demps (after a lot of filling in) and he's doing spectacular.

McKinney had Flannagan right below him, who if I remember correctly, was pretty much neck and neck with McKinney for the starting job in TC. Can't really replace a starting Center with somebody off of the street, and expect them to come in and dominate. We did, however, pick up what a lot of people on this very board are calling an exciting pick-up in Greg Enslinger.

And when you say Weary, you should probably also say White too, since he is also done for the season, and was Weary's backup. So you have two people go down that play the exact same position, and then they have Mike Brisiel step in and perform beautifully for the last two games.

So yeah, of those 3 you named, only McKinney really hasn't been replaced yet, and that's only because his backup was the only one that also didn't get injured for the rest of the season.

These guys have done a fantastic job of finding replacements on the fly, when pretty much you're having to scour waiver wires, practice squads, and the street for replacements. The only player who has really gone out, which is as important to us as Orlando Pace is to the Rams is probably Dunta Robinson. He'll never be replaced, per se, but Fred Bennett is definitely being an adequate fill-in while Robinson gets healthy. Gotta love that.

Just because we're not replacing all-pro players when our starters get injured, doesn't mean that there should be no dropoff whatsoever in production when new people step in, is sort of preposterous. It also doesn't mean that Smith shouldn't get any credit because he is replacing dookie with garbage, see what I'm saying.

In terms of finding replacements for players that have gone down with injury this year (And there have been approximately 17 of them) you have to give this front office a boatload of credit. They have pretty much kept the ship afloat the whole time.

Could you imagine Casserly looking for replacements this year? We would've been sunk well before the Cleveland game.

The Pencil Neck
12-22-2007, 11:51 PM
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43846&highlight=Marty

Like I said, define "everyone".

I stopped reading the board for a few weeks after the San Diego game because I knew there were going to be a bunch of knee-jerk reaction threats... and because I had too much work to do. I didn't have enough time to respond to threads I knew were going to get me ticked off. That thread is one of the reaction threads that I didn't want to read but even so, there's not a huge "get rid of Kubiak" sentiment in there even after the 3 bad losses.

Kubiak would have to field a very, very bad team next year to get booted by the END of next season.

eriadoc
12-23-2007, 12:47 AM
This season has been a bit of a roller coaster and I've been unhappy at the product at times (inconsistent play) but at the start of the year I figured we would be a .500 team and we are pretty much on course for that so while Kubiak hasn't been able to exceed expecations he hasn't really put out a product that has been a dissapointment. I'd just like us to keep playing physical football and find a few more key players and continue to build our depth this offseason so we can make our first playoff run next year....so I guess I'm happy with Kubiak and this regime since they are what I thought they were....more or less.

I hear what you're saying, but did you predict they'd be about a .500 team with 17 players on IR and a few key injuries that didn't make IR? I think he's done a great job with the injuries. If the team had stayed healthy this year and ended up where they are right now, I'd be much less happy about it.

prostock101
12-23-2007, 06:41 AM
The majority gave a "B"?!!

Wow, you guys (and gals) are a tough crowd. There's quite a bit of tunnel vision going on around this board. There is such a huge focus on this team making the playoffs after only 6 years in existence. Remember, the Cowgurls went 10 years without making the playoffs and they had an owner/GM that would have sold his mother and cut off his own.....uh, you know....just to make the postseason. Kubiak and Smith have done an excellent job and deserve an "A".

Think about it. Crennel is up for Coach of the Year and he had Derek Anderson as the #2 QB at the start of the season. Now he looks like a genius. He's not. He just got lucky.

Kubaik deserves Coach of the Year.

whiskeyrbl
12-23-2007, 07:32 AM
I gave Kubes an "A". The reasoning is simple, 17 players on IR, playing in probably the toughest division in football. Outside of our division we are 7-3. I know that we need to win our division games, but INDY and JAX are in the top 3 teams in the AFC IMO. Without the injuries and TO's I think we are 10-4 easily at this point. Kubes is doing an excellent job.:fans:

HJam72
12-23-2007, 07:36 AM
I think he's earned a B so far, but he gets an A if we win either of the last two (and an A+++++ if we actually win both of them). Basicly, he's got at least 80 points accrued and the class ain't over yet.

PS-I'm not voting until the season is over (or we win another).

threetoedpete
12-23-2007, 07:58 AM
Unable to vote b/c the season is not over yet.

To this point he has done a C job. .500 is average , a C is average.

If he goes 7-9 it will be a D.

If he goes 8-8 it will remain a C

If he goes 9-7 it will go to a B.

The only way that he would have gotten an A is if we made the playoffs.

I fully expect an A job next year.



I think that is prety harsh. They had no cap space to speak of strating out. Up to you to figure what the tallent level was when they started. If your expecttions were too lofty, that there thing is your ablity to judge tallent and not Smith's and Kubiak's ablity to find it and coach it.

I gave them a "b" and since we're on the subject, it'd be a nice time for Mr. McNair to strut a little bit and pat Smith and Kubes on the back. I think we're out of the hell hole we were in.

There seems to be a minority consenus growing that Sage should be the Starting QB in '08...out of hand.


If that is indeed the case and we indeed squandered two twoes on MS, from my tree it would mean that that is Gary's second strike on QBs. And since the MS move cost us two front line straters, in that sence, if the knee jerk guys like the little dingle berry Charlie Pallio are correct, he is indeed a "C". Banging him for not being able to manage the clock or pick a QB. But do not bang him for a mess he had no controll over. The tallent is what it is.

ArlingtonTexan
12-23-2007, 08:33 AM
I think the b to b minus range is about right. Kubiak's teams play hard and he has done a good job of designing the schemes in order that his most talented players (AJ, Ryans, Williams) perform at high levels. He has not used injuries as excuses and he and Rick smith improved the depth on this team increasing the possibility that the team could survive injury. His weaknesses have been surrounding in game management. Also, there are the handful of games where the team did not seem prepared. Overall, a solid job, but a higher grade, the texans would have had to exceeded expectations greatly. IMO, there are about where a good, not great coach should have the team.

ObsiWan
12-23-2007, 09:44 AM
a few (6?) guys venting when we were struggling... what do most of them think now i wonder?

That's a good question. Where are the ones who were calling for Kubiak's head - or at least predicting that his tenure here would be up soon.

Having scanned that thread, you'd think we didn't stand a chance to win another game.

At least Vinny weighed in with a comment (no grade though, I noticed). Where are the rest of the critics?? If you still think he should be gone, say so. If you've changed your mind or decided to "give him an extension" let us know that too.

Here's another way to pose the "How's Kubiak done so far" question:

All things considered, who would have done better and why?

Maddict5
12-23-2007, 10:07 AM
I think that is prety harsh. They had no cap space to speak of strating out. Up to you to figure what the tallent level was when they started. If your expecttions were too lofty, that there thing is your ablity to judge tallent and not Smith's and Kubiak's ablity to find it and coach it.

I gave them a "b" and since we're on the subject, it'd be a nice time for Mr. McNair to strut a little bit and pat Smith and Kubes on the back. I think we're out of the hell hole we were in.

There seems to be a minority consenus growing that Sage should be the Starting QB in '08...out of hand.

If that is indeed the case and we indeed squandered two twoes on MS, from my tree it would mean that that is Gary's second strike on QBs. And since the MS move cost us two front line straters, in that sence, if the knee jerk guys like the little dingle berry Charlie Pallio are correct, he is indeed a "C". Banging him for not being able to manage the clock or pick a QB. But do not bang him for a mess he had no controll over. The tallent is what it is.

i think kubiak has obviously seen enough that he keeps saying schaub is his guy and i agree with him but thats not important... lets say your scenario plays out like that; would it be strike 2 to kubiak? i mean we'd have 2 quality, relatively cheap qb's


basically what im saying is who picked up sage again? :wild:

adam
12-23-2007, 10:55 AM
i think kubiak has obviously seen enough that he keeps saying schaub is his guy and i agree with him but thats not important... lets say your scenario plays out like that; would it be strike 2 to kubiak? i mean we'd have 2 quality, relatively cheap qb's


basically what im saying is who picked up sage again? :wild:

Matt Schaub, if anything, was not cheap. When you look down the road a little bit and it's two 2nd rounders and 60mil$ later...how much better than Rosenfels was he? Only time will tell, hopefully not a lot of time. I would hate to see another five year QB experiment that didn't work out.

Maddict5
12-23-2007, 11:07 AM
Matt Schaub, if anything, was not cheap. When you look down the road a little bit and it's two 2nd rounders and 60mil$ later...how much better than Rosenfels was he? Only time will tell, hopefully not a lot of time. I would hate to see another five year QB experiment that didn't work out.

yeah he was cheap- 7mil gar and backloaded (and performance i assume) contract... look at what russell among others cost

Vinny
12-23-2007, 11:56 AM
That's a good question. Where are the ones who were calling for Kubiak's head - or at least predicting that his tenure here would be up soon.

Having scanned that thread, you'd think we didn't stand a chance to win another game.

At least Vinny weighed in with a comment (no grade though, I noticed). Where are the rest of the critics?? If you still think he should be gone, say so. If you've changed your mind or decided to "give him an extension" let us know that too.

Here's another way to pose the "How's Kubiak done so far" question:

All things considered, who would have done better and why?I'm not sure how I'd grade the team. As time goes by and we can see the totality of the year I'd say Kubiak had some growing pains but the team overcame some really rotten football from the middle of the season. Part of that blame of that bad football play went to Kubiak and most of the encouraging signs the team has exhibited the last few weeks need to go to Kubiak also. I certainly wouldn't give him an "A" and I think that if the team was still playing as poorly as it played earlier in the year I'd have to give them a "D", but they have played well at times so all I'm left with is a "B" and a "C".

Since Kubiak is still a young coach making mistakes on the job and apparently learning from them I'd have to dish out the "B". He is now 30 games into his new job so next year he doesn't get any room for noobness. :)

Points for the "B":

offensive passing scheme clearly works with a good QB
he was right about his wr group
the line gave up less sacks with a real QB running the show
players are playing hard with no playoffs to play for
injuries - managed to get his reserves to play at a high level

Points for a "C"

running game. Signing an old back with injury concerns...the running game regressed this season
seemed to be outcoached in a few games mid season
the team can't seem to score TD's after halftime adjustments from the opponent
inconsistent play - at times the team hasn't played as physical as I'd like to see but I think that is mostly a defensive observation...but the last few weeks I've perceived that the team has been more physical and more assertive.

ObsiWan
12-23-2007, 12:27 PM
I'm not sure how I'd grade the team. As time goes by and we can see the totality of the year I'd say Kubiak had some growing pains but the team overcame some really rotten football from the middle of the season. Part of that blame of that bad football play went to Kubiak and most of the encouraging signs the team has exhibited the last few weeks need to go to Kubiak also. I certainly wouldn't give him an "A" and I think that if the team was still playing as poorly as it played earlier in the year I'd have to give them a "D", but they have played well at times so all I'm left with is a "B" and a "C".

Since Kubiak is still a young coach making mistakes on the job and apparently learning from them I'd have to dish out the "B". He is now 30 games into his new job so next year he doesn't get any room for noobness. :)

Points for the "B":

offensive passing scheme clearly works with a good QB
he was right about his wr group
the line gave up less sacks with a real QB running the show
players are playing hard with no playoffs to play for
injuries - managed to get his reserves to play at a high levelPoints for a "C"

running game. Signing an old back with injury concerns...the running game regressed this season
seemed to be outcoached in a few games mid season
the team can't seem to score TD's after halftime adjustments from the opponent
inconsistent play - at times the team hasn't played as physical as I'd like to see but I think that is mostly a defensive observation...but the last few weeks I've perceived that the team has been more physical and more assertive.

A very fair-minded assessment. Fair points all. And now you know why I gave him a "B-".

Too many minuses to give him a solid B. You listed some of them under your logic for a C. I would add sticking with Petey Faggins as long as he did and waiting so long to play Darius Walker to that list. The kid seems to be just the kind of patient, set-up-your-blocking RB his zone blocking scheme calls for.

On the other hand, he has his boys playing hard enough to overcome a lot of stuff (injuries and often sucky officiating - let's not forget that) that would have caused a team with a lesser HC to head straight into the tank. That's better than "C" level work IMO. So he get's a B- from me.

Vinny
12-23-2007, 02:15 PM
ok, perhaps C+ after today? We still got our rear ends handed to us after halftime adjustments...Kubiak gets outcoached at times it seems.

Wolf
12-23-2007, 02:20 PM
ok, perhaps C+ after today? We still got our rear ends handed to us after halftime adjustments...Kubiak gets outcoached at times it seems.

true vinny true

but we do well with the scripted plays :rolleyes:

Ckw
12-23-2007, 02:36 PM
Maybe it's just me but I put this game on some other things. Sure some of it is Kubiak's fault but I place much more blame on the following:

1. Sage's 3 INTs
2. The unnecessary roughness call after Mario's sack on TJ
3. The no call when Kalu was obviously held and would have drilled Manning on their second drive of the game. This was the turning point.

Was Kubiak great? No. But can I put all of the blame on him when everytime something looked like it might get going, Sage would throw an INT. Kubiak's fault? In my opinion, no.

b0ng
12-23-2007, 02:49 PM
Maybe it's just me but I put this game on some other things. Sure some of it is Kubiak's fault but I place much more blame on the following:

1. Sage's 3 INTs
2. The unnecessary roughness call after Mario's sack on TJ
3. The no call when Kalu was obviously held and would have drilled Manning on their second drive of the game. This was the turning point.

Was Kubiak great? No. But can I put all of the blame on him when everytime something looked like it might get going, Sage would throw an INT. Kubiak's fault? In my opinion, no.

Citing the refs for a loss is kind of a cop out. Mario overcame holding plenty in the Denver game.

Honestly, we handed the game to the Colts in a pretty package with a nice red bow on top of it. We did not take care of the football, and we did not do anything to stop Manning from being Manning.

We need to stop with the silly turnovers, and I hope that next season we are able to post a decent turnover ratio.

Vinny
12-23-2007, 02:53 PM
We need to stop with the silly turnovers, and I hope that next season we are able to post a decent turnover ratio.
playing from behind alot leads to many of our picks.

b0ng
12-23-2007, 03:03 PM
playing from behind alot leads to many of our picks.

But we weren't really in play from behind mode I think until after the 1st pick.

After that who knows what mode we went into.

It seems like the offense leaves the defense hanging on terrible field position (For our defense) quite a bit. It also seems like they can put together a long string of 3 and outs which will never let a defense rest.

Vinny
12-23-2007, 03:05 PM
But we weren't really in play from behind mode I think until after the 1st pick.

After that who knows what mode we went into.

It seems like the offense leaves the defense hanging on terrible field position (For our defense) quite a bit. It also seems like they can put together a long string of 3 and outs which will never let a defense rest.

You're right...I'm just saying in general. Rosenfels would have had 4 or 5 picks if the defenders hung on to the ball today.

b0ng
12-23-2007, 03:07 PM
You're right...I'm just saying in general. Rosenfels would have had 4 or 5 picks if the defenders hung on to the ball today.

Honestly we just can't ask our backup QB to gunsling us out of a hole. He's pretty solid at keeping a decent hold on a lead.

Once we fell behind after the first Colts touchdown, I got that sinking "We're in trouble" feeling.

Ckw
12-23-2007, 03:43 PM
Citing the refs for a loss is kind of a cop out. Mario overcame holding plenty in the Denver game.

I agree man. But football and sports in general are typically a series of events all connected together that determines the outcome of the game. The Colts second drive of the game sealed our fate. Then when the offense came out and did nothing after the Indy TD, the game was almost over. Then Indy scored again. So yes, in my opinion, the Colts second drive determined the game's outcome. And I don't think it's a cop out to say a bull crap 15 yd unnecessary roughness call greatly hurt us. The game is about momentum. At that point, we lost it.

ObsiWan
12-23-2007, 03:53 PM
ok, perhaps C+ after today? We still got our rear ends handed to us after halftime adjustments...Kubiak gets outcoached at times it seems.

He got outcoached by Tony Dungy. There's a whole list of folks in that group.

their QB is Peyton Manning, Perennial Pro-Bowler.
ours is Sage Rosenfels. Career Back-up.

their RB is Joseph Addai, 1st rd pick and (if they had been really objective) ORoY last season
Our RB is an undrafted F/A who got cut and was brought back out of desparation

I could go on....
Let's just say that we've got a ways to go yet before we can go into their place and expect to win.

beerlover
12-23-2007, 03:58 PM
I'll own it. very dissapointed. Manning put in a full day @ the office, ran thru reads & executed the game plan flawlessly :cowboy1:

It would certainly be easy to rake Kubiak & the Texans effort but I'm going to stay classy. they are what they are (gotta change that thing up a bit) a team in process taking baby steps to becoming a team capable of winning in the NFL not just the doormat we saw today. what happened? we played against the defending Super Bowl Champions & one of the probable AFC Championship game teams (not ready to give New England a win just yet) keeping sharp in rhythm for the playoffs.

How Kubiak reacts from today will be crucial to his second year grade. lets wait & see how they respond against Jacksonville next Sunday in Relient. If the Kubiak/Texans stay positive, play their butts off, compete & win (or not) then I will maintain the season has been a success (or at least on track). :)

brakos82
12-23-2007, 04:03 PM
This is where my Newt post was supposed to go.

ObsiWan
12-23-2007, 04:33 PM
How Kubiak reacts from today will be crucial to his second year grade. lets wait & see how they respond against Jacksonville next Sunday in Relient. If the Kubiak/Texans stay positive, play their butts off, compete & win (or not) then I will maintain the season has been a success (or at least on track). :)

I vote for "on track".

Truth is, as TexanMike keeps reminding us, we're climbing up the ladder but we aren't there yet. I think we're in the middle of the pack when you consider the entire NFL. Unfortunately, we are in the toughest division of the entire NFL.

And it seems like some of y'all have conveniently chosen to forget, a) that our secondary sucked BEFORE everyone got hurt and
b) their QB is Peyton Manning who basically "grew up" in that offensive scheme and makes a living torching secondaries much better than ours.

Hervoyel
12-23-2007, 07:31 PM
Ultimately I think a win against Jacksonville to close out the season will make me happy. I'm not at all pleased with the way we continue to lay eggs in games like we did today but to pull into the off-season with a .500 record after the year we've had will be an accomplishment.

Should he (Kubiak) fail to do so then I think you have to question what we're doing. Maybe you come to the conclusion that we should stay the course but I think you're not being realistic if you don't question anything short of an 8-8 record.

I can't bear to watch Gary stand at that podium and say "This ones on me guys..... (thumps podium with hand a few times) I didn't have them ready to play. Our "kids" (why does he insist on calling grown men "kids"?) fought and never gave up but I didn't have them ready or put them in a position to succeed"

I know the coach takes responsibility for what happens on the field but I don't want to hear the "I didn't have them ready" speech anymore. That's just complete bullshit. It's Gary Kubiak's JOB to have them ready to play and I don't see any one thing that disturbs me more than how utterly flat and directionless the Texans have been in a number of road games this year. We left wins on the table in Atlanta, and Cleveland along with two very close contests against the Titans. We damn near lost against Miami.

I understand injuries and I understand players who are young, new to the team, or starting for the first time. I make allowances for those things just like the rest of you. Those aren't the things that have killed us in 2007. We've lost games because we put the rock on the ground or throw the interception at the worst possible time. We've lost games because of dumb mistakes that quality coaching can control.

I don't think of the Colts games as "We're 1-10 against Peyton Manning. I think of them as "The Texans under Kubiak are 1-3 against the Manning-led Colts". If I'm Gary Kubiak and I've lost games up there by scores like 43-24 and 38-15 then I'm wanting some payback. If the need to kick the crap out of the Colts isn't just eating that man alive right now then I don't want him coaching my team. I'm betting it is.

Still I'm thinking "B" if they wrap up 8-8. Lose next week and I'll call it a "C" if it's a loss like today where they don't even show up.

kiwitexansfan
12-23-2007, 09:58 PM
Lets keep some perspective we are going to have at least a record equal to our best ever record.

If we go 7-9 at least we dropped the last two to playoff teams and not the awful Browns we lost to a few years ago to stop being 8-8.

threetoedpete
12-26-2007, 02:00 PM
Lets keep some perspective we are going to have at least a record equal to our best ever record.

If we go 7-9 at least we dropped the last two to playoff teams and not the awful Browns we lost to a few years ago to stop being 8-8.

Funny how crucial it was for no nothing team with a poor defense to be in position to draft an OLT canidate like Joe Thomas ? Colts with Ugoh. Never used the "C" word in connection with Ugoh...but seems prety lucky. Will say that was a prety good guess by the Colts. As long as the brownies have the OLT and the tractor at RB healthy, they have chance. I'd be careful 'bout launching the brownies into the chopped liver zone out of hand.

Hervoyel
12-26-2007, 02:53 PM
Funny how crucial it was for no nothing team with a poor defense to be in position to draft an OLT canidate like Joe Thomas ? Colts with Ugoh. Never used the "C" word in connection with Ugoh...but seems prety lucky. Will say that was a prety good guess by the Colts. As long as the brownies have the OLT and the tractor at RB healthy, they have chance. I'd be careful 'bout launching the brownies into the chopped liver zone out of hand.

He's talking about the Browns of a couple of years ago when they were chopped liver and we still laid down for them.

Double Barrel
12-26-2007, 03:33 PM
I give him a C right now. We are still a very inconsistent team making a LOT of stupid mistakes, and we have yet to win three games in a row.

I like Kubiak, so my grade has no bearing of a personal grudge. But he sticks with the run too long and has a bad habit of red flagging plays with a horrible successful overturn rate. His clock management is still a cause for concern, too.

We've got the injury problems to be sure, but that did not seem to stop us from playing good ball against the Bucs and Broncos. Unfortunately, he did not prepare us for Indy and we came out flat and uninspired.

Texans_Chick
12-26-2007, 03:49 PM
I give him a C right now. We are still a very inconsistent team making a LOT of stupid mistakes, and we have yet to win three games in a row.

I like Kubiak, so my grade has no bearing of a personal grudge. But he sticks with the run too long and has a bad habit of red flagging plays with a horrible successful overturn rate. His clock management is still a cause for concern, too.

We've got the injury problems to be sure, but that did not seem to stop us from playing good ball against the Bucs and Broncos. Unfortunately, he did not prepare us for Indy and we came out flat and uninspired.

How funny. I think sometimes he gives up on the run too fast, making it easier to tee off on the passer.

Second Honeymoon
12-26-2007, 04:03 PM
I give him a C right now. We are still a very inconsistent team making a LOT of stupid mistakes, and we have yet to win three games in a row.

I like Kubiak, so my grade has no bearing of a personal grudge. But he sticks with the run too long and has a bad habit of red flagging plays with a horrible successful overturn rate. His clock management is still a cause for concern, too.

We've got the injury problems to be sure, but that did not seem to stop us from playing good ball against the Bucs and Broncos. Unfortunately, he did not prepare us for Indy and we came out flat and uninspired.

team comes out flat too often, poor halftime adjustments for the O and D, and a horrible coaching staff merit Kubiak receiving a C- or a D+.

he is also outcoached on a nearly weekly basis and has yet to beat a quality team other than a flatlining Colts at the end of last season.

eriadoc
12-26-2007, 04:05 PM
How funny. I think sometimes he gives up on the run too fast, making it easier to tee off on the passer.

I'm agreeing with this. I have seldom seen Kubiak stick with the run too long, unless you think we just shouldn't bother trying to establish the run first.

Lucky
12-26-2007, 04:26 PM
The Texans have beaten 1 team that is headed to the playoffs.

Only one of the Texans losses are to a team not in contention for the playoffs, as of week 17.

Are the Texans:

a) a team with little talent that is overachieving?
b) a team loaded with talent that is underachieving?
c) a team that has average talent and gives average performances?

I think the answer is (c). A believe a team with average talent that overachieved could have made the playoffs this season (see: Browns, Titans). This team didn't overachieve under Kubiak & staff, so they get a "C" from me.

hollywood_texan
12-26-2007, 04:29 PM
My grade on Kubiak is about a C to C-. Strong showing against the Jags on Sunday could bump things up to a C+. In my grading system, you need a strong B to consider your job safe. Being average doesn't get you to the playoffs, particarily in the AFC South.

The problem Kubiak has is that when he is playing a team with a winning record and good players, the Texans get their clocked clean on a regular basis. Throw in a very good coach, and Kubiak is toast!

I understand the injury issue. But he has conitually shown poor clock management and at times has called really bad plays. There is no creativity in his gameplans to make me think if he had the players, he could do anything with them anyway in a crunch during a big game.

Getting close to .500 by beating bad football teams does not provide much value in my book. Which is basically what Kubiak has done in 2 years. To some extent, I don't see much difference from last year except for a couple good games to give pause for consideration. But, the Texans soon get knocked back to Earth.

From what I see, the handwriting is on the wall with Kubiak, about 2 years and he is gone. McNair is going to have play it out but I just don't see Kubiak being up to the task to compete in the AFC South. I don't see how Kubiak is going to get above 8-8 in the next few years.

Second Honeymoon
12-26-2007, 05:02 PM
My grade on Kubiak is about a C to C-. Strong showing against the Jags on Sunday could bump things up to a C+. In my grading system, you need a strong B to consider your job safe. Being average doesn't get you to the playoffs, particarily in the AFC South.

The problem Kubiak has is that when he is playing a team with a winning record and good players, the Texans get their clocked clean on a regular basis. Throw in a very good coach, and Kubiak is toast!

I understand the injury issue. But he has conitually shown poor clock management and at times has called really bad plays. There is no creativity in his gameplans to make me think if he had the players, he could do anything with them anyway in a crunch during a big game.

Getting close to .500 by beating bad football teams does not provide much value in my book. Which is basically what Kubiak has done in 2 years. To some extent, I don't see much difference from last year except for a couple good games to give pause for consideration. But, the Texans soon get knocked back to Earth.

From what I see, the handwriting is on the wall with Kubiak, about 2 years and he is gone. McNair is going to have play it out but I just don't see Kubiak being up to the task to compete in the AFC South. I don't see how Kubiak is going to get above 8-8 in the next few years.

i reluctantly agree with you on the emboldened text and basically your whole post. kubiak is 2nd rate and his assistants (aside from a few exceptions) are pretty underwhelming as a whole. i blame the late timing of Kubiak's hiring for a lot of it but Kubiak has to show that he can get more talented and proven successful people to work for him and not be afraid to hurt anyone's feelings. And McNair needs to show that he is willing to pay the top dollar which would almost put any prospective top coordinator in the same tax bracket as Kubiak himself.

Spend the money, Bob or just give Kubiak next year to prove a lot of us wrong and if he doesnt.....HIRE BILL COWHER...it just makes sense. he has a lot left in the tank and could finally help the Texans make a real splash in the NFL. With the amount of money that owners are getting from the TV deal, there is no excuse for an owner not spending the money on coaching. Whatever another team is offering any prospective hire, they need to add to the deal until its done. what would an extra $10 million in annual coaching salaries do to McNair and his bottom line? Nothing. He paid a lot for the team and God bless him for that, but it wasn't a philanthropic move (of which he has done a lot of), buying the Texans was a business move. He is just printing money in Reliant just like every other NFL owner...make no mistake.

Cowher would bring numerous people in far more qualified than our present coaching staff.

Double Barrel
12-26-2007, 05:55 PM
How funny. I think sometimes he gives up on the run too fast, making it easier to tee off on the passer.

I understand where you are coming from, but it seems like he'll stick with a failed running game when we are down by three scores.

We started putting together a game plan against the Bucs and Broncos when we used the pass to set up the run, in the way the WCO was originally designed by Bill Walsh.

Our running game is garbage this season, so using it as a catalyst to springboard to the pass just seems myopic.

eriadoc
12-26-2007, 06:28 PM
The Texans have beaten 1 team that is headed to the playoffs.

Only one of the Texans losses are to a team not in contention for the playoffs, as of week 17.

Are the Texans:

a) a team with little talent that is overachieving?
b) a team loaded with talent that is underachieving?
c) a team that has average talent and gives average performances?

I think the answer is (c). A believe a team with average talent that overachieved could have made the playoffs this season (see: Browns, Titans). This team didn't overachieve under Kubiak & staff, so they get a "C" from me.

I am going to go with Option D - a team with little to average talent that is inconsistent. There have been games this year when they've played very well (Carolina before they lost Delhomme, Bucs, Broncos, etc.), poorly (Atlanta!, Miami), and average. I'm not sure where the first Colts game figures into that.

To say that the team has good talent (or maybe even average) is just not accurate. When Glenn Earl is your starting safety and then you have to go into scramble mode when he goes down, there's an indicator. We fans had some level of hopes pinned on Joe Freakin' Echemandu, for chrissakes. That said, there is some premium talent on the team to build with.

IMO, coaches very, very seldom win or lose games on Sunday. They win or lose games with their overall game plan, and even more importantly, with their personnel selections and development. Kubiak has done a good job with his overall game plan, especially given the lack of talent at many positions, not to mention injuries galore. Kubiak has done a good job identifying and drafting the players he wants. Rick Smith has done a fine job of finding guys that can patch holes (Maddox, Cochran, Echemandu, Demps, etc.). Kubiak has some role in that as well, of course. Compare how players have played and progressed under Kubiak with how players regressed under Capers. Kubiak is developing these players, and when he gets enough talent in place, they'll win games for him.

Kubiak has made mistakes in clock management, challenges, and similar areas, but I honestly can't think of one instance where it's cost us a game. I can think of many instances where a player's fumble, or QB interception, or dropped pass cost the team an opportunity to win. Players decide games. Coaches put those players in positons to win games. If our players had played this season with a positive turnover ratio this year, what would our record be? I can think of two games right off that would have been wins, and you can argue a few more.

Thorn
12-26-2007, 07:00 PM
Im giving Kubes a B. Weve had a lot of injury problems this year, no good consistent running attack and a lot of games were played without our starters on offense. I know we are going 7-9 and not 8-8, but Im still giving him a B.

Next year, however, he will not be getting such sympathy from me as I expect two of our three holes (listed below) to be somewhat plugged this offseason.

Offensive line
Running Back
Defensive backs

False Start
12-26-2007, 09:26 PM
I would have to say B . With all of our injuries this season he has done a good job of keeping things together IMO . He is a hundred times better than Dumb Capers . His clock management still needs some improvement . The only other thing he needs to work on is ............ stop challenging so much !! :bat: :brickwall:

CloakNNNdagger
12-27-2007, 09:31 AM
Unfortunately, the door needs to be closed to the numbers affecting one's conclusions on this subject. All the numbers are in as of last game. We will not see the Jags coming out in full force and, therefore, a win this next Sunday will serve no real team test or real victory. It will give us an opportunity to give some players an opportunity to show their value to the organization for next year (almost like preseason). A win and an 8 and 8 season could give us a sense of false security........or should I say a worthless "moral victory." However, a loss to the Jags would call up more questions and doubts about the coaching, the players and the direction the team is taking as a whole is .

Texans_Chick
12-27-2007, 09:39 AM
I understand where you are coming from, but it seems like he'll stick with a failed running game when we are down by three scores.

We started putting together a game plan against the Bucs and Broncos when we used the pass to set up the run, in the way the WCO was originally designed by Bill Walsh.

Our running game is garbage this season, so using it as a catalyst to springboard to the pass just seems myopic.

I understand where you are coming from too. I just think when teams start realizing that the Texans are in all pass mode, they bring the house. Which makes it harder to pass and pass down field.

dickieb
12-27-2007, 02:30 PM
I think Kubiak has done a good job this year, mainly with all the injuries we have had. The Colts have also had injuries and still play exceptional (great job by Dungy), New England has pretty much been healthy. To do as well as those teams have you have to be good and lucky. We just haven't had much luck this year. One thing bothers me that I keep hearing as a knock against Kubiak... clock management. Clock management is primarily a QB responsibility. How many times do you see Manning or Brady look over to the coach and ask if the should clock it or call a timeout? The QB's are supposed to take control in the two minute drill, or at least that's the way I see it.

Double Barrel
12-27-2007, 03:19 PM
I understand where you are coming from too. I just think when teams start realizing that the Texans are in all pass mode, they bring the house. Which makes it harder to pass and pass down field.

This is true. Which begs the question of how much priority has Kubiak put on upgrading our o-line with two off-seasons and two drafts under his belt? It has been a primary issue from the first season on, but yet this franchise seems to think that a great line can be pieced together from other teams' rejects.

It's tough to judge just one season, as so much more is involved. I really wanted to give him a B, but I've seen too many flat performances and uninspired football from this year's team to just put it off on injuries and lack of talent. The inconsistency issue is one that I rank high for a head coach, because teaching fundamentals is part of coaching, too, even at the pro level when required. If we had just beaten even one division opponent (0-5 just sucks) or won 3 in a row this season, then I'd definitely give him a better grade. But our head coach has not changed some fundamental deficiencies on this team, and that's what I tend to expect from the big dog.

GP
12-27-2007, 08:30 PM
I gave a C.

Wins seem to come in the form of "trap games" where we sneak up on people. I don't think Champ Bailey was far off in his comments about us.

I think Haynesworth is as good of an analyst on us as he is a player playing against (His Schaub/Sage remarks).

We're an identity-less team, which I think stems from an identity-less head coach. When we're running over people, we go to the pass too much. When we are passing the ball well, we tend to try and run the ball. We're just unstable and schizo IMO. It's like we never game-planned against each team...we just show up, throw out some scripted plays to start the game and "go fishing" to see what we can do all day.

In contrast, other teams (quality teams) seem to come at us full-blast and it's as if they know what plays we're calling on both sides of the ball. That, to me, speaks volumes about our coaching: We're pretty predictable.

I'm just not feeling the same love I once felt for Kubiak. He did a good job of saving a sinking ship, but I don't think he's the guy to take us to the next level. I think he's a stop-gap guy who sets up the next coach to come in here and take us to the next level.

CloakNNNdagger
12-27-2007, 09:39 PM
I gave a C.

Wins seem to come in the form of "trap games" where we sneak up on people. I don't think Champ Bailey was far off in his comments about us.

I think Haynesworth is as good of an analyst on us as he is a player playing against (His Schaub/Sage remarks).

We're an identity-less team, which I think stems from an identity-less head coach. When we're running over people, we go to the pass too much. When we are passing the ball well, we tend to try and run the ball. We're just unstable and schizo IMO. It's like we never game-planned against each team...we just show up, throw out some scripted plays to start the game and "go fishing" to see what we can do all day.

In contrast, other teams (quality teams) seem to come at us full-blast and it's as if they know what plays we're calling on both sides of the ball. That, to me, speaks volumes about our coaching: We're pretty predictable.

I'm just not feeling the same love I once felt for Kubiak. He did a good job of saving a sinking ship, but I don't think he's the guy to take us to the next level. I think he's a stop-gap guy who sets up the next coach to come in here and take us to the next level.


Great post. As far as the last comments of Kubiak, I hope that the team's "identity" problems will be lost with the loss of the apparently diametrically opposed philosophies of this season's HC and OC. I hope before the beginning of next season someone goes up to Kubiak and smacks him in the head..........."You could've had a V8".............

Mr. White
12-28-2007, 08:28 AM
the apparently diametrically opposed philosophies of this season's HC and OC.

I think that's it in a nutshell. That's the reason I didn't vote. It's pretty obvious that Mike Sherman has had way too much say in what goes on in this organization. And he doesn't want to run Kubiak's style of offense.

When Troy Calhoun got hired on as OC, all the talk was about how much of an offensive genius he was. Anyone else remember the story about John Gruden and Mike Shanahan drinking beer together and Gruden was talking about hiring him? Then Shanahan told Gruden that he already hired him....turned out his offense looked lot like a Green Bay offense.

Kubiak hired Sherman because he needed an experienced guy to learn from in his first HC gig. Looks like Sherman wouldn't come on board unless he had some level of control. It looks like that level of control was a hell of a lot.

I have a feeling that he's gonna run the A&M program into the ground. I honestly hope I'm wrong for the sake of my Ag friends, but I don't think that he has the personality to beat out Mack Brown and Bob Stoops in recruiting year in and year out.

Let's hope he can delegate.

GP
12-28-2007, 10:22 AM
Great post. As far as the last comments of Kubiak, I hope that the team's "identity" problems will be lost with the loss of the apparently diametrically opposed philosophies of this season's HC and OC. I hope before the beginning of next season someone goes up to Kubiak and smacks him in the head..........."You could've had a V8".............

I thought we'd see the offense become a little better with the departure of Calhoun. I was on the Sherman Ship, 100%, thinking that his success in Green Bay would translate to our team. Wrong.

Having said that, several commentators have said that Kubiak gets the call from the booth and he can override it himself (if he wants to) before sending it to the huddle. Thus, the bulk of responsibility is upon Kubiak.

Two years, Two OCs. Same identity-less offense. And we're about to add our third OC in 3 years. I know the offense stays the same so that we're not really changing overall philosophies or anything, and Kubiak can override the call(s) if he wants to, but then why do we even have an OC? Hire a guy to be an Offensive Consultant...someone who watches from above, in the booth, and is what he is: A consultant to the REAL guy who is calling the plays--Kubiak.

Thus and therefore: Kubiak gets a C because he is ultimately the one responsible for the playcalling and gameplanning.

Maybe he gets over the top in his third year, I dunno. I'll give the guy one more season. But if we finish .500 or less--again--then I'm done. I don't need a Super Bowl win next season, though it'd benice, but I'd like to see us play some playoff football and get into that category for once. It'll make us more attractive to FA's who can make a real difference.

infantrycak
12-28-2007, 10:28 AM
I was on the Sherman Ship, 100%, thinking that his success in Green Bay would translate to our team. Wrong.

Two years, Two OCs. Same identity-less offense.

It is a joke to act as if this year's offense and last year's bear any resemblance either in what is attempted or what is achieved.

Honoring Earl 34
12-28-2007, 11:29 AM
Great post. As far as the last comments of Kubiak, I hope that the team's "identity" problems will be lost with the loss of the apparently diametrically opposed philosophies of this season's HC and OC. I hope before the beginning of next season someone goes up to Kubiak and smacks him in the head..........."You could've had a V8".............

I'm hoping Kubiak starts showing us 100% Gary Kubiak . I think he respected Sherman and let him do his own thing . We then had a clash of styles . I for the record like big guys who'll kick your butt because they're dominant . Anybody seen 5 of these guys around ?

I like Kubiak as a leader . He seems like a players coach who does'nt allow excuses and if you don't do your job ... well ... there's a price to be paid .

Texan_Bill
09-22-2008, 03:51 PM
What a difference 9 months and two road losses makes....... :rolleyes:


Seems to me that some fans are more 'unstable' than the organzation.... But it makes for 'good times'!!

Norg
09-22-2008, 05:22 PM
i still have hopes we can make the playoffs this year ..... we just need to get our act together

Texan_Bill
09-22-2008, 05:28 PM
i still have hopes we can make the playoffs this year ..... we just need to get our act together

I'm not saying we were going to make the playoffs, but I will stand by my 9-7 or 8-8 prediction.

Double Barrel
09-22-2008, 05:42 PM
I'm not saying we were going to make the playoffs, but I will stand by my 9-7 or 8-8 prediction.

You are one optimistic dude, my man!

I'm downgrading this team to 6-10 until they can prove that they belong in the NFL. ;)

Nawzer
09-22-2008, 05:53 PM
I blame both defeats on the coaching staff. I think Kubiak and crew have done a real poor job of preparing the players. Some of the plays they were running on Sunday didn't make any sense. Also some of the decisions also made little sense. The Texans to me looked desperate and I think they played into the hands of the Titans. The biggest responsibility of a coaching staff is to get the players ready as best as they can, but the last 2 games didn't look like they were ready to compete with these other teams.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2008, 05:57 PM
You are one optimistic dude, my man!

I'm downgrading this team to 6-10 until they can prove that they belong in the NFL. ;)

Damn skippy I'm optimistic. I just watched this city and surrounding area get punched right in the mouth. We are all picking ourselves up by the boot straps and getting back to work. The ones who aren't there yet, will be there soon...

I suspect that the Texans will do the same. They just go punched in the mouth, (not unlike many of suspected they would) and may take another shot or two in the next couple of weeks... Then the worm turns!! Book it!!!!! ;)

brakos82
09-22-2008, 05:58 PM
C. I voted B back in the day when SAGE was playing...

eriadoc
09-22-2008, 06:50 PM
DRAFT: I give Kubes a B. The 2006 draft was as solid as it comes, and 2007 and 2008 give me optimism. The two 2nd round picks for Schaub keeps this from being an A, but I sure hope Schaub upgrades this mark.

FREE AGENCY: I give Kubes a D. It's funny, CP was just rattling off the FA failures that I posted here a few weeks ago. Under Kubiak, the team has signed (and sometimes with big guaranteed money) Weaver, Greenwood, Flanagan, Green, Putzier, Black, Reeves, and Colvin. I'm probably missing a few of the flops. There have been a couple nice pickups, but they were usually the low-risk signings like Andre Davis, Kevin Walter, Maddox, Cochran, and Hutchins. What impact free agent has Kubiak went after and succeeded with? Weaver, Greenwood, Green, and Flanagan probably qualified at the time as impact signings, but they never worked out. This regime has not done well in FA, IMO.

GAME PLANNING: I give Kubiak a C- here, because he's done more offensively than I expected (this season notwithstanding), but he's allowed so much input from his other coaches that the product seems schizophrenic at times. And we can all complain about Richard Smith, but Kubiak holds the reins. Defensive game planning has been inadequate, at best. Offensively, they got a lot out of a bad situation last year, so there's some goodwill left there.

IN-GAME DECISIONS: I give him a D here. The first drive of the game is usually very good. After that, the adjustments are hit-or-miss, for the most part. His clock management has left me screaming at the field or TV far too often, and he sucks at challenging. In this chess game, Kubiak is always playing from a position of being in check.

The other important category for me is player development, but I am going to abstain from grading that just yet. I'm sure there are other criteria by which to grade him, but these are the important ones for me. YMMV.

Brando
09-22-2008, 06:56 PM
I'm not saying we were going to make the playoffs, but I will stand by my 9-7 or 8-8 prediction.

I'm not expecting the playoffs anymore this year(I would love for the Texans to prove me wrong!). If we end up with a 8-8 record I will be happy considering the way we have started the season.

maddogmrb
09-22-2008, 07:09 PM
Kubiak has done a great jon especially as we have 16 - 17 players on IR. And Andre missed 7 games.

They ain't on IR this year and AJ hasn't missed a game this year.......

maddogmrb
09-22-2008, 07:13 PM
i still have hopes we can make the playoffs this year ..... we just need to get our act together

Ummm ....... okay .........

GuerillaBlack
09-22-2008, 07:13 PM
They ain't on IR this year and AJ hasn't missed a game this year.......

He said that almost 9 months ago.

maddogmrb
09-22-2008, 07:18 PM
I'm not expecting the playoffs anymore this year(I would love for the Texans to prove me wrong!). If we end up with a 8-8 record I will be happy considering the way we have started the season.

Agreed, but probably optimistic at this point.

Eriadoc, I also mostly agree with your post but, I have to figure Schaub in the draft grade and make that a C and I can't give him more than a D for game planning at this point.

Double Barrel
09-23-2008, 10:40 AM
Damn skippy I'm optimistic. I just watched this city and surrounding area get punched right in the mouth. We are all picking ourselves up by the boot straps and getting back to work. The ones who aren't there yet, will be there soon...

I suspect that the Texans will do the same. They just go punched in the mouth, (not unlike many of suspected they would) and may take another shot or two in the next couple of weeks... Then the worm turns!! Book it!!!!! ;)

Well, as comparisons go, the Texans have been manhandled the way Ike manhandled the city. Perhaps you're right. We'll see how this team responds in Jax, a team that we have traditionally played well. Let's just hope that we don't get an ass-kickin' next Sunday...

Just remember, the city and state brought in a lot of help from other places to get back up and running. It certainly was not done on our lonesome. Think the Cowboys could spare a few players? ;)

FirstTexansFan
09-23-2008, 10:42 AM
Think the Cowboys could spare a few players? ;)

You mean you want more than Jacques Reeves? :)

eriadoc
09-23-2008, 11:37 AM
Eriadoc, I also mostly agree with your post but, I have to figure Schaub in the draft grade and make that a C and I can't give him more than a D for game planning at this point.

I did figure Schaub in the draft grade, hence the comment that Schaub makes it a B. The draft grade is very fluid, as we still don't really know what we have from the 2007 class, much less this year's. The 2006 class is the only draft class that can be fairly judged at this point, and Mario, Demeco, Winston, Daniels, and Anderson make that class an A+. I think we also traded a pick in that year's draft for Kevin Walter. Like Schaub, that also gets factored in.

Tedc
09-23-2008, 11:56 AM
Kubiak has not done anything that excites me. Don't get me wrong...I love that he is willing to go for a fourth and one but as a head coach, he has to understand that a field goal is better than nothing, especially on the road...in the second quarter...in the third quarter...early in the fourth quarter...

As much as he wasted time outs, he should have used one if he couldn't get info from the booth on the long out of bounds pass play that set them up inside the 10.

Also, where is the two back set on a goal and one??? With Leach paving the way, Slaton is almost assured to get in.

Bad coaching decisions and the decision to stick with Schaub when he is going bad make me want to give him a D-.

Polo
09-23-2008, 12:09 PM
There isn't a head coach, GM, or anyone involved with an organization that hasn't been scrutinzed by their fan base...

I think overall Kubiak has been a positive influence on this team. I think we are better because of him and others that he's brought in. He's far from perfect, but he isn't nearly as bad as most have started to imply or say he is.

I'm gonna wait a while before I jump...