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View Full Version : With playoff chances gone, why play injured Players ?


nunusguy
12-18-2007, 06:36 AM
"Schaub, 26, is contemplating offseason surgery on his shoulder, but he refuses to give up on the sliver of hope that he can play in the final two games of this season."
**
"Ryans injured his right knee against Tampa Bay when he tore his posterior cruciate ligament."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5386034.html
***********************************
Both these guys still want to play this year, which is admirable.
But why not get them their surgeries and on the road to recovery for the 2008 season instead of risking further injury in meaningless games in the remainder of this season ?

grinch1134
12-18-2007, 07:52 AM
I think we were always playing for a winning season, meaning none of the upcoming games are meaningless; at least not to me and those fans that have wanted to see this team finish big. Also these two divisional games give us a chance to not go completely winless in the division. And to finalize my thoughts, seeing Schaub in action two more games should help quiet the start Sage crowd.

GP
12-18-2007, 10:36 AM
I think we were always playing for a winning season, meaning none of the upcoming games are meaningless; at least not to me and those fans that have wanted to see this team finish big. Also these two divisional games give us a chance to not go completely winless in the division. And to finalize my thoughts, seeing Schaub in action two more games should help quiet the start Sage crowd.

Yeah, because it's all about silencing the "Start Sage" crowd and not about winning. This is David Carr all over again.

LOL.

I'd think that if you are so high on Matt Schaub, you'd be glad to let the little peon Sage Rosenfels do his menial job as a backup, let Schaub rest and put his feet up on the sideline while Sage serves like a slave, and therefore allow Schaub to get fully healthy so he can play his token 1-to-2 games next season before getting hurt again.

What is it about Matt Schaub that has him so stinkin' untouchable around here? I personally think it comes down to a bunch of ego-driven fans who don't want to see smack talk dropped on us if Schaub doesn't work out. With the plethora of fans around here taking joy in Bush's and Vince's bad play recently, it only furthers my assumption. Seems we have people more focused on what people THINK of us and less concerned with how this team looks on the field, as a T-E-A-M. There's just no comparison between how this offense ran with Schaub and how it has been flowing (IMO) with Sage. The tempo is faster, the receivers are catching everything, and we're getting into the endzone more regularly with less struggling to do so. There's a confidence amongst the players when Sage is taking the snaps.

Quit worrying about appearances and let the W-L stats speak for themselves. That's what counts, remember?

Ole Miss Texan
12-18-2007, 10:40 AM
It depends how the doctors/trainers feel. If they say Demeco can play and not risk further injury, I'd be fine with it. If there's some sort of chance that it could aggrevate it or make it worse- I wouldn't let him walk around!! The kids gonna be a probowler for us for a long time, keep him healthy.

As far as schaub goes, again it depends how the trainers feel. there is no use rushing him back b/c he's been injured a few times this season. Let him get healthy and get surgery sooner thus allowing him to practice sooner in the off season. Sage is doing a great job. Let Matt heal up and take the reins over next season.

threetoedpete
12-18-2007, 10:45 AM
From my tree, he wants to give MS a chance to have one more good outing to slay the QB controversey. this team has enough on it's plate without that next spring. I agree it is pointless to trot him out there. But, it must mean a lot to Kubes. Anyone calling for Sage over MS is bacically a troll wanting to stir the pot up as far as I'm concerned. Closet cow polkes fans ?

eriadoc
12-18-2007, 10:48 AM
It depends how the doctors/trainers feel. If they say Demeco can play and not risk further injury, I'd be fine with it. If there's some sort of chance that it could aggrevate it or make it worse- I wouldn't let him walk around!! The kids gonna be a probowler for us for a long time, keep him healthy.

As far as schaub goes, again it depends how the trainers feel. there is no use rushing him back b/c he's been injured a few times this season. Let him get healthy and get surgery sooner thus allowing him to practice sooner in the off season. Sage is doing a great job. Let Matt heal up and take the reins over next season.

Assuming he's not going to further injure it by normal playing, you also have to assess whether getting the month's headstart on surgery is worth the return. If waiting means he's going to be gimpy at the beginning of the season next year, I'd rather he have the surgery now and get a headstart on rehab. We're already going to be short Dunta Robinson.

nunusguy
12-18-2007, 10:58 AM
From my tree, he wants to give MS a chance to have one more good outing to slay the QB controversey. this team has enough on it's plate without that next spring. I agree it is pointless to trot him out there. But, it must mean a lot to Kubes. Anyone calling for Sage over MS is bacically a troll wanting to stir the pot up as far as I'm concerned. Closet cow polkes fans ?
Whatever the Texans might hope to accomplish by playing Schaub again this year, know there is also a big downside to such a decision:
(1) the most obvious and biggest concern is that he reinjuries his already injured shoulder and complicates his recovery
(2) plays poorly due to the existing injury or rustiness due to missed playing time from the injury, which then does tend to fire up any talk of a QB controversy

hollywood_texan
12-18-2007, 11:07 AM
"Schaub, 26, is contemplating offseason surgery on his shoulder, but he refuses to give up on the sliver of hope that he can play in the final two games of this season."
**
"Ryans injured his right knee against Tampa Bay when he tore his posterior cruciate ligament."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5386034.html
***********************************
Both these guys still want to play this year, which is admirable.
But why not get them their surgeries and on the road to recovery for the 2008 season instead of risking further injury in meaningless games in the remainder of this season ?


I believe Demeco's injury is very similar to Adrian Peterson's injury of the Vikings.

AP didn't require surgery and was playing in a couple of weeks.

I don't think Demeco's injury is as bad you think it is.

As for Schaub, who knows. He had a shoulder injury his senior year in college, which as I understand it, is the reason he slipped to the 3rd in the draft in the first place.

Scooter
12-18-2007, 11:55 AM
i dont think it has anything to do with qb controversies or anything like that. kubiak gave them the goal of bringing mcnair and houston a winning season and that's still what they're working towards. the team's on a high right now and just like last year every player wants to contribute and finish strong. for all the things that we have to fix on our team, chemistry and determination arent on the list.

HoustonFrog
12-18-2007, 12:06 PM
Yeah, because it's all about silencing the "Start Sage" crowd and not about winning. This is David Carr all over again.

LOL.

I'd think that if you are so high on Matt Schaub, you'd be glad to let the little peon Sage Rosenfels do his menial job as a backup, let Schaub rest and put his feet up on the sideline while Sage serves like a slave, and therefore allow Schaub to get fully healthy so he can play his token 1-to-2 games next season before getting hurt again.

What is it about Matt Schaub that has him so stinkin' untouchable around here? I personally think it comes down to a bunch of ego-driven fans who don't want to see smack talk dropped on us if Schaub doesn't work out. With the plethora of fans around here taking joy in Bush's and Vince's bad play recently, it only furthers my assumption. Seems we have people more focused on what people THINK of us and less concerned with how this team looks on the field, as a T-E-A-M. There's just no comparison between how this offense ran with Schaub and how it has been flowing (IMO) with Sage. The tempo is faster, the receivers are catching everything, and we're getting into the endzone more regularly with less struggling to do so. There's a confidence amongst the players when Sage is taking the snaps.

Quit worrying about appearances and let the W-L stats speak for themselves. That's what counts, remember?

Still trying and spinning.. Dear Lord. Comical. TEAM is right. You reflect it so well in this post.(eye roll)

Anyways, Sage should play out the string

grinch1134
12-18-2007, 04:10 PM
Yeah, because it's all about silencing the "Start Sage" crowd and not about winning. This is David Carr all over again.

LOL.

I'd think that if you are so high on Matt Schaub, you'd be glad to let the little peon Sage Rosenfels do his menial job as a backup, let Schaub rest and put his feet up on the sideline while Sage serves like a slave, and therefore allow Schaub to get fully healthy so he can play his token 1-to-2 games next season before getting hurt again.

What is it about Matt Schaub that has him so stinkin' untouchable around here? I personally think it comes down to a bunch of ego-driven fans who don't want to see smack talk dropped on us if Schaub doesn't work out. With the plethora of fans around here taking joy in Bush's and Vince's bad play recently, it only furthers my assumption. Seems we have people more focused on what people THINK of us and less concerned with how this team looks on the field, as a T-E-A-M. There's just no comparison between how this offense ran with Schaub and how it has been flowing (IMO) with Sage. The tempo is faster, the receivers are catching everything, and we're getting into the endzone more regularly with less struggling to do so. There's a confidence amongst the players when Sage is taking the snaps.

Quit worrying about appearances and let the W-L stats speak for themselves. That's what counts, remember?

Yeah because all my post said was to silence the Sage crowd. Read then type. I never once called Schaub untouchable, so please l quote someone else's post next time or just hit quick reply.

The point is these aren't meanlingless games and our star((ting)should have read starting) quaterback should lead us to the end. I for one have no problem letting Mickey Mouse quarterback if it wins us games, but until Sage is named the team's starting quarterback for the season, he will remain the backup. And yes he has done a great job backing up Matt.

adam
12-18-2007, 04:17 PM
Yeah because all my post said was to silence the Sage crowd. Read then type. I never once called Schaub untouchable, so please l quote someone else's post next time or just hit quick reply.

The point is these aren't meanlingless games and our star quaterback should lead us to the end. I for one have no problem letting Mickey Mouse quarterback if it wins us games, but until Sage is named the team's starting quarterback for the season, he will remain the backup. And yes he has done a great job backing up Matt.

I'm not particularly on either side of this argument, I really don't care who the starter is so long as we win. However, isn't it a little early to call Schaub a star? I don't think that he has done anything phenomenal, or at least nothing "star worthy".

I'm all for giving him another season. That said, no five year denials like what we had with Carr. If Schaub fails to produce next season, I would be completely up to sitting him.

Nighthawk
12-19-2007, 01:59 AM
Yeah, because it's all about silencing the "Start Sage" crowd and not about winning. This is David Carr all over again.

What is it about Matt Schaub that has him so stinkin' untouchable around here?


I second. I never understood the endless support for Carr. I was calling for his head after season 2 (of 5). Also 3, 4, and 5.

Now, Sage looks pretty good (maybe real good with a little help from the coaches seeing him as a potential starter), while Schaub looks frail, injury prone, glass jaw.

I liked Schaub at the start of the season, but at a minimum they gotta treat him to a crash course in the gym for the next 9 months. And they can't consider him untouchable. After 5 years of Carr you'd think the Texans would have learned that lesson.

HJam72
12-19-2007, 02:21 AM
I second. I never understood the endless support for Carr. I was calling for his head after season 2 (of 5). Also 3, 4, and 5.

Now, Sage looks pretty good (maybe real good with a little help from the coaches seeing him as a potential starter), while Schaub looks frail, injury prone, glass jaw.

I liked Schaub at the start of the season, but at a minimum they gotta treat him to a crash course in the gym for the next 9 months. And they can't consider him untouchable. After 5 years of Carr you'd think the Texans would have learned that lesson.

I don't know about this debate, but I gotta agree with that comment--assuming he can with his shoulder.

brickman
12-21-2007, 07:21 AM
It depends how the doctors/trainers feel. If they say Demeco can play and not risk further injury, I'd be fine with it. If there's some sort of chance that it could aggrevate it or make it worse- I wouldn't let him walk around!! The kids gonna be a probowler for us for a long time, keep him healthy.

As far as schaub goes, again it depends how the trainers feel. there is no use rushing him back b/c he's been injured a few times this season. Let him get healthy and get surgery sooner thus allowing him to practice sooner in the off season. Sage is doing a great job. Let Matt heal up and take the reins over next season.



GREAT POST!!!! 100% agree.

edo783
12-21-2007, 03:56 PM
Two games left, out of th playoffs........just play it safe and sit them.

Hardcore Texan
12-21-2007, 08:33 PM
Has anyone thought of this?

If Schaub goes ahead and has surgery now to get a head start on next year and Sage gets hurt after that.......who the hell is going to play QB?

I think we should start Sage the rest of the year, dress Schaub as the backup if he is healthy enough, and should have surgery right after the year is over.

Next is the OTA's and mini camp......Kubiak has always said every position is open competition in the offseason. This should take care of the "QB Controversy", performance is what mattters, let's see if Kubiak stays true to this, I suspect he will.

And hopefully neither one of them is going anywhere for awhile. I do think after it is said and one, Schaub wins out, but I am willing to be unbias about it.

Texans Pride
12-21-2007, 10:27 PM
Both these guys still want to play this year, which is admirable.
But why not get them their surgeries and on the road to recovery for the 2008 season instead of risking further injury in meaningless games in the remainder of this season ?[/QUOTE]

because before this team can make the playoffs, this team has to learn how to win! These last two games are anything but meaningless.

CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2007, 11:02 PM
Just a while back, Schaub stated that his doctor told him that his shoulder injury was such that he could not injure it any further. I'd love to meet his doctor........any significant injury to a joint (especially an injury that requires surgery) will destabilize that joint..........any additional direct trauma would inevitably lead to further injury........Someone interject a little common sense..............

edo783
12-22-2007, 05:00 AM
Just a while back, Schaub stated that his doctor told him that his shoulder injury was such that he could not injure it any further. I'd love to meet his doctor........any significant injury to a joint (especially an injury that requires surgery) will destabilize that joint..........any additional direct trauma would inevitably lead to further injury........Someone interject a little common sense..............

CND, I was wondering that myself. kind of has the ring of "Wishing and hoping" that it will heal on its own and to keep the other team guessing.

GP
12-22-2007, 08:47 AM
Just a while back, Schaub stated that his doctor told him that his shoulder injury was such that he could not injure it any further. I'd love to meet his doctor........any significant injury to a joint (especially an injury that requires surgery) will destabilize that joint..........any additional direct trauma would inevitably lead to further injury........Someone interject a little common sense..............

Clinton Portis would agree with you--He dislocated his shoulder, began wearing a harness, and he STILL re-injured it over and over. I think he's been re-injuring it off-and-on for the past two seasons.

Manny Gamburian (MMA fighter) has a history of dislocating a shoulder. He fought in the UFC this past summer, and was doing really well until he landed on the shoulder and it popped out on him...he knew he was done and he tapped as soon as the opponent (Nate Diaz) jumped on him. Joe Rogan was commentating and stated that Manny had a history of repeatedly dislocating the shoulder, which is pretty much a death sentence in that particular sport.

They never specify Matt's injury. They refer to the injury as "it." I still think Matt is done for the year and is scheduled for some sort of procedure (whatever "it" might be). All this posturing is just head games being played on the Colts and Jags to make them gameplan for either QB instead of being able to just focus on Sage and his tendencies.

Matt's not coming back this year.

GP
12-22-2007, 08:57 AM
Still trying and spinning.. Dear Lord. Comical. TEAM is right. You reflect it so well in this post.(eye roll)

Anyways, Sage should play out the string

Go bang on Vinny, or JoeTexan, or Nighthawk. Each of those guys, to some degree, have said something negative about your boy.

JoeTexan: Matt throws high and behind his receivers.

Vinny: Makes a comment about whether the "brain trust" known as Texans management will try to validate the Schaub deal like they tried with Carr.

Nighthawk: Makes similar comments that I have made about Schaub's fragility.

But nooooo....you stalk me and hound me on everything I say. I have moved on, but you've drawn me back in. You love Matt Schaub, and that's fine with me. I don't know what your fascination is with him. My only fascination with Sage is that he's the only QB on our team whom I think is actually worth his salt, earning his keep around here, and gives our TEAM the best chance to win. Should he go to some other team, I wouldn't follow him there or root for him on Sundays--I just think that right now, for our team, he's the best we got. Period.

I have seen enough to know that Matt Schaub is NOT the answer for QB here. It's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

You just salivate when you see me post on this topic. You don't reply to anybody else around here, who shares a not-so-hot opinion of Schaub, the same way that you do to me. So I guess you have a fascination with Schaub and with me, as well. I guess I can see why: Both Schaub and I are resting this weekend while Sage does the heavy lifting.

CloakNNNdagger
12-22-2007, 09:14 AM
Clinton Portis would agree with you--He dislocated his shoulder, began wearing a harness, and he STILL re-injured it over and over. I think he's been re-injuring it off-and-on for the past two seasons.

Manny Gamburian (MMA fighter) has a history of dislocating a shoulder. He fought in the UFC this past summer, and was doing really well until he landed on the shoulder and it popped out on him...he knew he was done and he tapped as soon as the opponent (Nate Diaz) jumped on him. Joe Rogan was commentating and stated that Manny had a history of repeatedly dislocating the shoulder, which is pretty much a death sentence in that particular sport.

They never specify Matt's injury. They refer to the injury as "it." I still think Matt is done for the year and is scheduled for some sort of procedure (whatever "it" might be). All this posturing is just head games being played on the Colts and Jags to make them gameplan for either QB instead of being able to just focus on Sage and his tendencies.Matt's not coming back this year.

I would hope that this would the reason for the vagueness by Shaub and the Texans. Otherwise, as I have previously stated, the Texans medical staff's experience and judgement need to be critically questioned, and Schaubs head needs to be examined.

That being said, getting a needed operation sooner rather than later would allow for a longer period of recovery before the spring........and serve the team a much more needed "edge" than playing silly games for the last 2 "morale" games of this season.

GP
12-22-2007, 11:46 AM
I would hope that this would the reason for the vagueness by Shaub and the Texans. Otherwise, as I have previously stated, the Texans medical staff's experience and judgement need to be critically questioned, and Schaubs head needs to be examined.

That being said, getting a needed operation sooner rather than later would allow for a longer period of recovery before the spring........and serve the team a much more needed "edge" than playing silly games for the last 2 "morale" games of this season.

What's most funny, to me, is that there's no way the two teams (Jags and Colts) are buying what Kubiak and Schaub are trying to sell. On one hand, you admire that they are trying to use speculative mis-information to try and get an edge; to try and win these two games by doing everything they can; but on the other hand you have to think that Jags and Colts are a bit too smart for this.

IIRC, some other teams were miffed at the Patriots for how they would handle their week-long active/non-active routine of trying to play head games with their opponents. And IIRC, you have to be genuine about how you're listing someone all week long.

So, you have Schaub slipping (in his interview) and saying that he doesn't want to risk re-injuring the shoulder...and the reporter (a Texans website staffer conducting the interview) CORRECTING Matt after Matt finished saying the contradiction. The interviewer said, "But the doctor said...." and Matt then trying to adjust and say "Well, umm, yeah...what he said..."

Good stuff. They won't say "what" the injury is, Matt contradicts himself and needs to be prompted so as to keep the ploy on-track, and all of it to get some sort of edge.

With Domanick Davis and now Ahman Green having this "bone-on-bone" condition, you wonder why we have this happening to two Texans RBs, or wondering why our doctors/trainers are not spotting some early warning signs before we got locked into a contract with these guys. Are their cases of this on other NFL teams? What other teams have RBs suffering this same condition? The fact that we've hit on two RBs who were good RBs but who have what's basically an incurable knee condition is bizarre.

Forget hiring better OCs and DCs. Get the training staff from New England. That team has had like 4 guys out the whole year.

Vinny
12-22-2007, 12:16 PM
I've just stated that the jury is still out on Schaub and that we should showcase Rosenfels and let Schaub sit till next year. No reason to rush out and make his shoulder problem even worse in games that don't matter. Sage hasn't played as well on the road as he has at home so this should be a big day for Rosenfels tomorrow.

disaacks3
12-22-2007, 12:37 PM
At this point DeMeco IS a "proven commodity" and should be allowed to rest, recuperate and get surgery (if needed).

As for Schaub, the jury is still out...on him as a QB overall AND his durability.

Our QB controversy isn't someting worth losing any sleep over. Sage didn't end up as a backup in Houston by accident, his game has plenty of flaws. Don't let a couple of inspired performances fool you...I love the energy and mobility that Sage provides, but he occasionally thinks he's Favre and tries to force the ball in places he shouldn't because he lacks the velocity.

Schaub has NEVER gotten the chances Sage has (until Houston), due to the fact he was playing behind the sub-divine power that WAS Michael Vick. He SEEMS to be a slightly better decision-maker than Sage, but still had 1-2 bonehead throws a game as well.

If there's no injury to Schaub's "throwing" shoulder, I have no problem with Kubes suiting him up as a reserve for the last two games. Starting a guy who is 'favoring' a shoulder just doesn't seem worth it though. I'm not that worried about "recovery time" on a QB's non-throwing shoulder.

CloakNNNdagger
12-22-2007, 05:56 PM
If there's no injury to Schaub's "throwing" shoulder, I have no problem with Kubes suiting him up as a reserve for the last two games. Starting a guy who is 'favoring' a shoulder just doesn't seem worth it though. I'm not that worried about "recovery time" on a QB's non-throwing shoulder.


I would point out that if the injury of the non-throwing shoulder is severe enough to be requiring surgery, Schaub's play would undoubtedly be significantly compromised. Usually such an injury precludes the normal raising of the arm, a motion that is necessary to stabilize the football prior to release. We would have a "lame duck" quarterback leaving himself open to other further injury.

The Pencil Neck
12-22-2007, 06:28 PM
I would point out that if the injury of the non-throwing shoulder is severe enough to be requiring surgery, Schaub's play would undoubtedly be significantly compromised. Usually such an injury precludes the normal raising of the arm, a motion that is necessary to stabilize the football prior to release. We would have a "lame duck" quarterback leaving himself open to other further injury.

I've had a bunch of shoulder problems (I'm a powerlifter) and I can't imagine that someone with a shoulder that's bad enough to require off-season surgery could play. Even in a non-throwing shoulder.

Until you actually have a bum shoulder like that (or have been around someone with that), I don't think you can really realize how debilitating it is. It effects you in a lot of ways you don't expect... including making it very hard to sleep.

threetoedpete
12-23-2007, 08:49 AM
Has anyone thought of this?

If Schaub goes ahead and has surgery now to get a head start on next year and Sage gets hurt after that.......who the hell is going to play QB?

I think we should start Sage the rest of the year, dress Schaub as the backup if he is healthy enough, and should have surgery right after the year is over.

Next is the OTA's and mini camp......Kubiak has always said every position is open competition in the offseason. This should take care of the "QB Controversy", performance is what mattters, let's see if Kubiak stays true to this, I suspect he will.

And hopefully neither one of them is going anywhere for awhile. I do think after it is said and one, Schaub wins out, but I am willing to be unbias about it.



If the shoulder is that bad that two weeks will make a signifacant difference ? I dunno, but there has to be a reason that kubiak would take the risk and push the issue.


They alway say every position is open to competition. Coach speak. Doesn't mean WALTER is goinng to bump A.J. as the #1.


Just as absurd and disingenuous as saying stats between two guys with different oponents and personel at their disposal at different times is equivalent. What is the old computer saying: "Garbage in, Garbage out."