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Andrew6
12-16-2007, 09:41 PM
This is my take on the players, please add your own input.

50 Anderson, Charlie LB 6-4 243 Mississippi 4 * I think he makes good special teams plays

89 Anderson, David WR 5-10 194 Colorado State 2 * havn't seen much out of him

32 Bennett, Fred * CB 6-0 197 South Carolina 0 * love him don't see him going anywhere.

71 Black, Jordan T 6-5 310 Notre Dame 4 * unless he does something to show me he is worth staying he can go and not hurt my feelings.

28 Boulware, Michael S 6-3 220 Florida State 4 * havn't seen anything special from him.

7 Boyd, Shane QB 6-1 232 Kentucky 1 * IDK

65 Brisiel, Mike G 6-5 300 Colorado State 1 * has really shown promise

24 Brown, C.C. S 6-0 208 Louisiana-Lafayette 3 * I'd like to see him step his game up

3 Brown, Kris K 5-11 206 Nebraska 9 * Should be in the ProBowl

87 Bruener, Mark TE 6-4 260 Washington 13 * makes plays sometimes

78 Butler, Rashad T 6-4 293 Miami (Fla.) 2 * havn't seen anything from him

55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 Illinois 8 * makes some plays but I'd like to see him progress

96 Cochran, Earl DE 6-5 284 Alabama State 3 * has really shown some flashes

43 Cook, Jameel FB 5-10 237 Illinois 7 * still have a bad taste in my mouth from him last year

40 Cox, Curome S 6-1 204 Maryland 3 * havn't seen anything from him.

81 Daniels, Owen TE 6-3 247 Wisconsin 2 * Future probowler (if he holds on to the ball.)

11 Davis, André WR 6-1 195 Virginia Tech 6 * need to keep him for sure.

36 Dayne, Ron RB 5-10 245 Wisconsin 8 * old but low miles. (sounds like an old lady car. I'd say we keep him just for depth.

47 Demps, Will S 6-0 208 San Diego State 6 * He has shown he deserves a spot on the team and needs to get with the WR coach to learn to catch.

54 Diles, Zac * LB 6-0 240 Kansas State 0 * shows flashes

85 Dreessen, Joel TE 6-4 260 Colorado State 3 * shows flashes in limited fashion

33 Echemandu, Adimchinobi RB 5-10 226 California 4 * not seeing him as a Texan next year.

38 Faggins, Demarcus CB 5-10 178 Kansas State 6 * uhhh well then.

58 Flanagan, Mike C 6-5 301 UCLA 12 * Sad when this is the best you have

21 Fletcher, Jamar CB 5-10 180 Wisconsin 7 * shown some flashes

75 Frye, Brandon * T 6-4 302 Virginia Tech 0 * havn't seen much from him

56 Greenwood, Morlon LB 6-0 238 Syracuse 7 * he doesn't make big plays but has shown some promises

57 Hodgdon, Drew C 6-3 309 Arizona State 3 * don't know much about him

34 Hutchins, Von DB 5-9 181 Mississippi 4 * A keeper in my book has made some good plays

80 Johnson, Andre WR 6-3 219 Miami (FL) 5 * He's my hero

99 Johnson, Travis NT 6-3 305 Florida State 3 * we'll see if he made a case to be kept

12 Jones, Jacoby * WR 6-2 210 Lane College 0 * started strong but now plays scared or thinking too much.

94 Kalu, N.D. DE 6-3 265 Rice 10 * Another defensive nigerian nightmare

53 Kershaw, William LB 6-3 240 Maryland 2 * don't know much about him

44 Leach, Vonta FB 6-0 250 East Carolina 4 * deffinate keeper

95 Maddox, Anthony DT 6-1 295 Delta State 4 * I personally love this player and would love to see us keep him.

91 Okoye, Amobi * DT 6-2 302 Louisville 0 * future probowler

48 Pittman, Bryan LS 6-3 270 Washington 5 * 300 LS's and you're the best 1 screw up and your hated. Still a keeper

69 Pitts, Chester G/T 6-3 320 San Diego State 6 * I can't beleive this is the best we have

88 Putzier, Jeb TE 6-4 256 Boise State 6 * shows flashes in limited action adds depth.

18 Rosenfels, Sage QB 6-4 225 Iowa State 7 * could be a starter on most teams including the Texans

59 Ryans, DeMeco LB 6-2 236 Alabama 2 * He's an animal

74 Salaam, Ephraim T 6-7 300 San Diego State 10 * would make a good BACK UP

8 Schaub, Matt QB 6-5 237 Virginia 4 * I'll hold my opinion till I see more

64 Studdard, Kasey * G 6-2 303 Texas 0 * very injury prone we'll see what happens.

1 Turk, Matt P 6-5 240 Wis.-Whitewater 14 * great but inconsistant

37 Walker, Darius * RB 5-11 205 Notre Dame 0 * shows promise

83 Walter, Kevin WR 6-3 214 Eastern Michigan 5 * has shown he deserves his #2 status

98 Weaver, Anthony DE 6-3 280 Notre Dame 6 * has shown some flashes

90 Williams, Mario DE 6-7 291 N.C. State 2 * He's a beast

73 Winston, Eric T 6-7 310 Miami (FL) 2 * Quit getting penaties.

25 Wynn, Dexter DB 5-9 175 Colorado State 4 * don't see much out of him except special teams heh

92 Zgonina, Jeff DT 6-2 290 Purdue 14 * havn't seen much from him


PRACTICE SQUAD

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
79 Bulman, Tim DT 6-4 292 Boston College 3 ?
52 Castañeda, Eduardo * LB 6-2 243 ITESM 0 ?
19 Hamilton, Derrick WR 6-4 207 Clemson 2 ?
42 Mitchell, Brandon * S 6-3 205 Ohio State University 0 - thought he was hurt

39 Roberson, Derrick * CB 5-10 175 Rutgers 0 * In the limited play i've seen him in he shows promise
66 Robinson, DelJuan * DT 6-3 296 Mississippi State 0 * havn't seen much from him
68 Stevenson, Dan G 6-5 300 Notre Dame 2 ?
86 Williams, Harry WR 6-2 186 Tuskegee 2 ?

INJURED RESERVE

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
47 Abbate, Jon * FB 5-11 245 Wake Forest 0 don't know much about him

20 Alexander, Roc DB 5-10 190 Washington 4 * havn't really seen much

51 Barber, Shawn LB 6-2 240 Richmond 10 * was decent

26 Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 215 Notre Dame 4 * was decent

30 Green, Ahman RB 6-0 218 Nebraska 10 * can we get our money back

31 Harrison, Brandon * S 6-2 215 Stanford 0 * havn't seen enough of him

62 Jackson, Scott G 6-4 300 Brigham Young 3 * who?

97 Killings, Cedric DT 6-2 310 Carson-Newman 5 * poor guy

13 Mathis, Jerome WR 5-11 191 Hampton 3 * Mr. Phantom Injuries

76 McKinney, Steve C 6-4 302 Texas A&M 10 * I like him hope he comes back for if nothing else added depth

23 Robinson, Dunta CB 5-10 174 South Carolina 4 * I miss him

22 Simmons, Jason S/CB 5-9 198 Arizona State 10 * don't know too much about him

27 Taylor, Chris RB 5-11 220 Indiana 1 * we'll see how he does after that kneed injury

70 Weary, Fred G 6-4 308 Tennessee 6 * hope he is able to compete especially since this was a contract year

63 White, Chris C 6-2 285 Southern Miss. 2 * saw him play at USM thought he was decent

PUP

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
77 Spencer, Charles T 6-4 352 Pittsburgh 2 * not sure if he'll ever play again

TEXANRED
12-16-2007, 10:09 PM
50 Anderson, Charlie LB 6-4 243 Mississippi - cut

89 Anderson, David WR 5-10 194 Colorado State - cut

32 Bennett, Fred * CB 6-0 197 South Carolina 0 - keep

71 Black, Jordan T 6-5 310 Notre Dame - cut

28 Boulware, Michael S 6-3 220 Florida State - keep

7 Boyd, Shane QB 6-1 232 Kentucky 1 - cut

65 Brisiel, Mike G 6-5 300 Colorado State 1 - keep

24 Brown, C.C. S 6-0 208 Louisiana-Lafayette 3 - cut

3 Brown, Kris K 5-11 206 Nebraska - keep

87 Bruener, Mark TE 6-4 260 Washington - cut

78 Butler, Rashad T 6-4 293 Miami (Fla.) - who? cut

55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 Illinois 8 - cut

96 Cochran, Earl DE 6-5 284 Alabama State - keep

43 Cook, Jameel FB 5-10 237 Illinois 7 - cut, who needs two FB's?

40 Cox, Curome S 6-1 204 Maryland - keep

81 Daniels, Owen TE 6-3 247 Wisconsin 2 - keep

11 Davis, André WR 6-1 195 Virginia Tech- keep

36 Dayne, Ron RB 5-10 245 Wisconsin - keep

47 Demps, Will S 6-0 208 San Diego State - keep

54 Diles, Zac * LB 6-0 240 Kansas State 0 *- keep

85 Dreessen, Joel TE 6-4 260 Colorado State - keep

33 Echemandu, Adimchinobi RB 5-10 226 California - cut

38 Faggins, Demarcus CB 5-10 178 Kansas State - if casserly is a GM I would trade him to that team.

58 Flanagan, Mike C 6-5 301 UCLA 12 - cut

21 Fletcher, Jamar CB 5-10 180 Wisconsin 7 - keep

75 Frye, Brandon * T 6-4 302 Virginia Tech 0 - keep

56 Greenwood, Morlon LB 6-0 238 Syracuse 7 - cut

57 Hodgdon, Drew C 6-3 309 Arizona State - cut

34 Hutchins, Von DB 5-9 181 Mississippi 4 - keep

80 Johnson, Andre WR 6-3 219 Miami (FL) - trade, kidding, keep

99 Johnson, Travis NT 6-3 305 Florida State - keep, he brings some nasty.

12 Jones, Jacoby * WR 6-2 210 Lane College 0 - keep

94 Kalu, N.D. DE 6-3 265 Rice 10 - cut

53 Kershaw, William LB 6-3 240 Maryland - who? cut

44 Leach, Vonta FB 6-0 250 East Carolina - keep

95 Maddox, Anthony DT 6-1 295 Delta State - keep

91 Okoye, Amobi * DT 6-2 302 Louisville 0 - keep

48 Pittman, Bryan LS 6-3 270 Washington - keep

69 Pitts, Chester G/T 6-3 320 San Diego State 6 - keep

88 Putzier, Jeb TE 6-4 256 Boise State - cut

18 Rosenfels, Sage QB 6-4 225 Iowa State 7 - keep, make him mayor.

59 Ryans, DeMeco LB 6-2 236 Alabama 2 - keep

74 Salaam, Ephraim T 6-7 300 San Diego State 10 - keep

8 Schaub, Matt QB 6-5 237 Virginia - keep

64 Studdard, Kasey * G 6-2 303 Texas - keep

1 Turk, Matt P 6-5 240 Wis.-Whitewater 14 - cut

37 Walker, Darius * RB 5-11 205 Notre Dame - cut

83 Walter, Kevin WR 6-3 214 Eastern Michigan - keep

98 Weaver, Anthony DE 6-3 280 Notre Dame 6 - trade or cut

90 Williams, Mario DE 6-7 291 N.C. State - keep

73 Winston, Eric T 6-7 310 Miami (FL) - keep

25 Wynn, Dexter DB 5-9 175 Colorado State 4 - keep

92 Zgonina, Jeff DT 6-2 290 Purdue 14 - cut




# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
47 Abbate, Jon * FB 5-11 245 Wake Forest - cut, we dont need 3 FB's

20 Alexander, Roc DB 5-10 190 Washington - cut

51 Barber, Shawn LB 6-2 240 Richmond - cut

26 Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 215 Notre Dame - cut

30 Green, Ahman RB 6-0 218 Nebraska - cut

31 Harrison, Brandon * S 6-2 215 Stanford - keep

62 Jackson, Scott G 6-4 300 Brigham Young 3 * who?

97 Killings, Cedric DT 6-2 310 Carson-Newman - he should retire

13 Mathis, Jerome WR 5-11 191 Hampton 3 - cut

76 McKinney, Steve C 6-4 302 Texas A&M 10 - cut

23 Robinson, Dunta CB 5-10 174 South Carolina - keep

22 Simmons, Jason S/CB 5-9 198 Arizona State - cut

27 Taylor, Chris RB 5-11 220 Indiana - keep

70 Weary, Fred G 6-4 308 Tennessee 6 - keep

63 White, Chris C 6-2 285 Southern Miss. 2 - keep

PUP

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
77 Spencer, Charles T 6-4 352 Pittsburgh - he better be a keeper

mexican_texan
12-16-2007, 10:21 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45081

The Pencil Neck
12-16-2007, 10:37 PM
KEEPERS

50 Anderson, Charlie LB 6-4 243 Mississippi 4
Good on Special teams, good backup LB, and has played well with Danny Clark down
89 Anderson, David WR 5-10 194 Colorado State 2
Played well when we had the injuries to our receivers. He should be given another chance to make the team.
32 Bennett, Fred * CB 6-0 197 South Carolina 0
He rocks.
65 Brisiel, Mike G 6-5 300 Colorado State 1
Stepping up with the injuries. We might actually be thick at guard.
3 Brown, Kris K 5-11 206 Nebraska 9
87 Bruener, Mark TE 6-4 260 Washington 13
I believe he is still one of the best blocking TE's in the biz. But I haven't watched him much this year.
55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 Illinois 8
Would like to improve the position so that Danny becomes depth. But I still like him.
96 Cochran, Earl DE 6-5 284 Alabama State 3
He has played well.
81 Daniels, Owen TE 6-3 247 Wisconsin 2
11 Davis, André WR 6-1 195 Virginia Tech 6
36 Dayne, Ron RB 5-10 245 Wisconsin 8
47 Demps, Will S 6-0 208 San Diego State 6
He doesn't always make the tackles and he doesn't always catch the interception. But most times he does make the tackles and he hits pretty hard. He's better than what we've had in the past.
54 Diles, Zac * LB 6-0 240 Kansas State 0
85 Dreessen, Joel TE 6-4 260 Colorado State 3
He has played well both on offense and in special teams.
58 Flanagan, Mike C 6-5 301 UCLA 12
At least until we get 2 younger, better players.
21 Fletcher, Jamar CB 5-10 180 Wisconsin 7
Has shown flashes
75 Frye, Brandon * T 6-4 302 Virginia Tech 0
I think he's got a future.
56 Greenwood, Morlon LB 6-0 238 Syracuse 7
Has improved the past few weeks.
34 Hutchins, Von DB 5-9 181 Mississippi 4
I'd like to see him put into a depth role but he's done everything asked of him.
80 Johnson, Andre WR 6-3 219 Miami (FL) 5
99 Johnson, Travis NT 6-3 305 Florida State 3
He has improved this year.
12 Jones, Jacoby * WR 6-2 210 Lane College 0
I just hope he can return to form. He hasn't been the same since the separated shoulder.
94 Kalu, N.D. DE 6-3 265 Rice 10
44 Leach, Vonta FB 6-0 250 East Carolina 4
95 Maddox, Anthony DT 6-1 295 Delta State 4
91 Okoye, Amobi * DT 6-2 302 Louisville 0
48 Pittman, Bryan LS 6-3 270 Washington 5
69 Pitts, Chester G/T 6-3 320 San Diego State 6
88 Putzier, Jeb TE 6-4 256 Boise State 6
18 Rosenfels, Sage QB 6-4 225 Iowa State 7
59 Ryans, DeMeco LB 6-2 236 Alabama 2
74 Salaam, Ephraim T 6-7 300 San Diego State 10
I'd love for him to be our backup swing tackle; the role Kubiak originally wanted for him.
8 Schaub, Matt QB 6-5 237 Virginia 4
I'm a Schaub fan.
64 Studdard, Kasey * G 6-2 303 Texas 0
1 Turk, Matt P 6-5 240 Wis.-Whitewater 14
37 Walker, Darius * RB 5-11 205 Notre Dame 0
I expect some moves at RB and Darius could be gone but I think he's showing that he could play well for us in the future.
83 Walter, Kevin WR 6-3 214 Eastern Michigan 5
90 Williams, Mario DE 6-7 291 N.C. State 2
73 Winston, Eric T 6-7 310 Miami (FL) 2
92 Zgonina, Jeff DT 6-2 290 Purdue 14
I think Jeff has given us a lot of good minutes.
76 McKinney, Steve C 6-4 302 Texas A&M 10
I don't know if he's going to make it back.
23 Robinson, Dunta CB 5-10 174 South Carolina 4
27 Taylor, Chris RB 5-11 220 Indiana 1
I think he really could have helped this year.
70 Weary, Fred G 6-4 308 Tennessee 6
63 White, Chris C 6-2 285 Southern Miss. 2
30 Green, Ahman RB 6-0 218 Nebraska 10
I had hopes for Ahman. I hope he can come back next year and actually contribute.

EXPENDABLE
71 Black, Jordan T 6-5 310 Notre Dame 4
28 Boulware, Michael S 6-3 220 Florida State 4
Haven't seen as much from him as I'd like
7 Boyd, Shane QB 6-1 232 Kentucky 1
He could be good. Looked good in preseason with the Cards.
24 Brown, C.C. S 6-0 208 Louisiana-Lafayette 3
He'll probably come back and compete but I'd like to upgrade this position.
78 Butler, Rashad T 6-4 293 Miami (Fla.) 2
We got this guy late and apparently Smith and Kubiak like him. But I haven't seen anything from him.
43 Cook, Jameel FB 5-10 237 Illinois 7
40 Cox, Curome S 6-1 204 Maryland 3
He's played well on special teams but I don't know how he figures in on the defense.
33 Echemandu, Adimchinobi RB 5-10 226 California 4
38 Faggins, Demarcus CB 5-10 178 Kansas State 6
57 Hodgdon, Drew C 6-3 309 Arizona State 3
53 Kershaw, William LB 6-3 240 Maryland 2
98 Weaver, Anthony DE 6-3 280 Notre Dame 6
He's getting paid a lot of money and I don't see that we're getting that much out of him. I think he's a decent player but he shouldn't be one of our highest paid players.
25 Wynn, Dexter DB 5-9 175 Colorado State 4
He's played OK but not great.
13 Mathis, Jerome WR 5-11 191 Hampton 3
With Andre Davis stepping up, I think Jerome is out of here.
22 Simmons, Jason S/CB 5-9 198 Arizona State 10


POSSIBLES
42 Mitchell, Brandon * S 6-3 205 Ohio State University 0
I'm hoping the year on the practice squad was good for him.
66 Robinson, DelJuan * DT 6-3 296 Mississippi State 0
Showed flashes in pre-season. Hopefully the year on the PS was good for him.
86 Williams, Harry WR 6-2 186 Tuskegee 2
The coaching staff liked him in preseason. We had a lot of good receivers on our squad and he couldn't find the field.
47 Abbate, Jon * FB 5-11 245 Wake Forest 0
Such a great story. Hope he can make it next year.
51 Barber, Shawn LB 6-2 240 Richmond 10
I'd forgotten he was even on the squad. If he comes back strong, he could be really nice to have.
26 Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 215 Notre Dame 4
I would really love for us to get better safeties and make him expendable.
31 Harrison, Brandon * S 6-2 215 Stanford 0
I have hopes for this kid.
62 Jackson, Scott G 6-4 300 Brigham Young 3
He looked good in preseason. He might even have made the team.
97 Killings, Cedric DT 6-2 310 Carson-Newman 5
I hope he makes it back.
77 Spencer, Charles T 6-4 352 Pittsburgh 2
I hope he can make ti back.

DerekLee1
12-16-2007, 10:50 PM
Longest. Messages. Ever.

It's pointless to go through the roster a player at a time, and the bottom line is if they've been selected through the draft and were on the gameday roster at any time, and have contract time remaining, they'll be kept. We should be looking more at which free agents to re-sign, and Andre' Davis is the number one priority.

TEXANRED
12-16-2007, 11:16 PM
Longest. Messages. Ever.

It's pointless to go through the roster a player at a time, and the bottom line is if they've been selected through the draft and were on the gameday roster at any time, and have contract time remaining, they'll be kept. We should be looking more at which free agents to re-sign, and Andre' Davis is the number one priority.

I disagree.

Will Demps is the number one priority. We have plenty of receivers who can catch, but only one player who can play safety.

rollinstone18
12-16-2007, 11:56 PM
Cut Green.

Dread-Head
12-17-2007, 12:17 PM
Keep:Ryans, Williams, Robinson, Bennett, Kalu, Brown, Rosenfels, Johnson and that TE whose name I can never remember.

Trade:Faggins.

Errant Hothy
12-17-2007, 12:47 PM
With all the cutting that is being suggested Rick Simth is going to have to be the busiest GM in the NFL to get the roster re-built. Some of the guys that y'all want to cut are good back of the roster guys, and it's easier to keep them then to try and replace them (which is not always possible).

TEXANS84
12-17-2007, 01:33 PM
Trade:Faggins.

I dont believe Faggins would be worthy of a trade, to any team.

threetoedpete
12-17-2007, 02:08 PM
Longest. Messages. Ever.

It's pointless to go through the roster a player at a time, and the bottom line is if they've been selected through the draft and were on the gameday roster at any time, and have contract time remaining, they'll be kept. We should be looking more at which free agents to re-sign, and Andre' Davis is the number one priority.

Agreed #2...give Leech and Salaam a bump. Re do thier deals. #3. Fish or cut bait on Robinson. Either they re do him and carry him. Take the gamble or they move on. There is no thrid choice. Glad I don't have to choose.

threetoedpete
12-17-2007, 02:11 PM
Keep:Ryans, Williams, Robinson, Bennett, Kalu, Brown, Rosenfels, Johnson and that TE whose name I can never remember.

Trade:Faggins.

Joel Dresen...the other one on the bubble is WR Dav Anderson.

Lucky
12-17-2007, 02:12 PM
Trade:Faggins.
Pray that Casserly gets another GM gig. Then we can get 2nd & 3rd picks for Petey.

rmartin65
12-17-2007, 02:17 PM
Right, Mathis is Mr. Phantom Injuries. That would explain the blood clot, and the fractured foot.

threetoedpete
12-17-2007, 02:24 PM
Right, Mathis is Mr. Phantom Injuries. That would explain the blood clot, and the fractured foot.

The hole in his leg bone ? Look there was something there. frustrating as it was to everyone...he was tring to play through a medical condition the doctors missed....several times. Not saying the guy is untouchable...just saying there was a medical reason. I'm not in the room but Kubiak doesn't strike me the kind of coach who likes to be teased. He is however the kind coach that lives and dies with his players if they are giving him a max effort. Emergance of Davis has left him vaneralble....vaneralbel not DOA.

ObsiWan
12-17-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm mostly in agreement with The Pencil Neck's assessment.

The only guys I would cut out of hand would be Jordan Black (big disappointment) and maybe Petey Faggins. And Faggins, while he sucks at CB, has done a decent job on special teams since being demoted.

I would move Shane Boyd over to the "Possibles" list. Perhaps he could be groomed next year to be Schaub's replacement, allowing us to trade Sage prior to the '09 season.

We'll likely only keep five backs.
- Green will be given one more preseason to show what he can do.
- Dayne is Kubiak's boy; he ain't goin' no place.
- Taylor may well start if he comes back 100% and Green does not. - Walker, if he continues to be productive, has earned another year maybe as the 3rd down back
- I may be wrong, but I'm betting we draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round.
- Echemandu will be the odd man out.

None of the guys who started the year on the O-line gets cut out of hand. They deserve a chance to be beat out. If they can make garage-door sized holes for Ron Dayne (and we all know he won't fit thru anything smaller), they must be doing something right.

Except for Weaver, leave the D-line alone. And Weaver just needs his contract adjusted to match his level of play.

Secondary is jelling; don't ask me how that bunch of cast-offs is doing it, but they seem to be getting it done. No. Wait. We do know how. Mario & company aren't giving opposing QBs all day to throw any more. So matched with our improved D-line (and Richard Smith calling more blitzes) there's enough potential (B.Mitchell & B. Harrison plus whoever we draft) and some real talent (Fred Bennett, Dunta) in our gaggle of DBs to field a decent secondary next season. And I like the way they hit.
Of course, if Manning & Co. torches them, I reserve the right to do a 180 and cut the whole lot. ;o)

All in all, I like our guys. They play with pride - at least they have over the last month. The next two games will be interesting given we're officially eliminated from the playoffs. Perhaps we should revisit this topic - and I know we will - after the Jags game.

Dread-Head
12-17-2007, 10:47 PM
I dont believe Faggins would be worthy of a trade, to any team.

Things we can trade FOR Faggins:

1. Team Bus

2. tray of nachos, a hot dog and a drink.

3. lovable koala

4. elderly Georgia Bloodhound named Zeke (currently residing at Merle's feed store)

5. 6 pack of Shiner Bock

6. Case of Budweiser

7. Keg of Schaffer (the beer good enough for Paul and the CBS Orchestra)

8. Autographed photo of Bob "Mr Baseball" Uekker

9. Megumi Hayashibara action figure

10. $2.00 and a sandwich.

And we All know what KIND of sandwich!...

:splits: THAT'S RIGHT IT'S....Pastrami on rye with provolone.:bat:

Grid
12-17-2007, 10:54 PM
I am still of the opinion that we should keep Faggins. Considering the injury issues that we have had, I am wary of getting rid of ANY of our secondary guys unless we can easily upgrade them.. and I dont think Faggins is half as bad as people here make him out to be.

Hardcore Texan
12-17-2007, 11:07 PM
50 Anderson, Charlie LB 6-4 243 Mississippi - cut

89 Anderson, David WR 5-10 194 Colorado State - cut

32 Bennett, Fred * CB 6-0 197 South Carolina 0 - keep

71 Black, Jordan T 6-5 310 Notre Dame - cut

28 Boulware, Michael S 6-3 220 Florida State - keep

7 Boyd, Shane QB 6-1 232 Kentucky 1 - cut

65 Brisiel, Mike G 6-5 300 Colorado State 1 - keep

24 Brown, C.C. S 6-0 208 Louisiana-Lafayette 3 - cut

3 Brown, Kris K 5-11 206 Nebraska - keep

87 Bruener, Mark TE 6-4 260 Washington - cut

78 Butler, Rashad T 6-4 293 Miami (Fla.) - who? cut

55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 Illinois 8 - cut

96 Cochran, Earl DE 6-5 284 Alabama State - keep

43 Cook, Jameel FB 5-10 237 Illinois 7 - cut, who needs two FB's?

40 Cox, Curome S 6-1 204 Maryland - keep

81 Daniels, Owen TE 6-3 247 Wisconsin 2 - keep

11 Davis, André WR 6-1 195 Virginia Tech- keep

36 Dayne, Ron RB 5-10 245 Wisconsin - keep

47 Demps, Will S 6-0 208 San Diego State - keep

54 Diles, Zac * LB 6-0 240 Kansas State 0 *- keep

85 Dreessen, Joel TE 6-4 260 Colorado State - keep

33 Echemandu, Adimchinobi RB 5-10 226 California - cut

38 Faggins, Demarcus CB 5-10 178 Kansas State - if casserly is a GM I would trade him to that team.

58 Flanagan, Mike C 6-5 301 UCLA 12 - cut

21 Fletcher, Jamar CB 5-10 180 Wisconsin 7 - keep

75 Frye, Brandon * T 6-4 302 Virginia Tech 0 - keep

56 Greenwood, Morlon LB 6-0 238 Syracuse 7 - cut

57 Hodgdon, Drew C 6-3 309 Arizona State - cut

34 Hutchins, Von DB 5-9 181 Mississippi 4 - keep

80 Johnson, Andre WR 6-3 219 Miami (FL) - trade, kidding, keep

99 Johnson, Travis NT 6-3 305 Florida State - keep, he brings some nasty.

12 Jones, Jacoby * WR 6-2 210 Lane College 0 - keep

94 Kalu, N.D. DE 6-3 265 Rice 10 - cut

53 Kershaw, William LB 6-3 240 Maryland - who? cut

44 Leach, Vonta FB 6-0 250 East Carolina - keep

95 Maddox, Anthony DT 6-1 295 Delta State - keep

91 Okoye, Amobi * DT 6-2 302 Louisville 0 - keep

48 Pittman, Bryan LS 6-3 270 Washington - keep

69 Pitts, Chester G/T 6-3 320 San Diego State 6 - keep

88 Putzier, Jeb TE 6-4 256 Boise State - cut

18 Rosenfels, Sage QB 6-4 225 Iowa State 7 - keep, make him mayor.

59 Ryans, DeMeco LB 6-2 236 Alabama 2 - keep

74 Salaam, Ephraim T 6-7 300 San Diego State 10 - keep

8 Schaub, Matt QB 6-5 237 Virginia - keep

64 Studdard, Kasey * G 6-2 303 Texas - keep

1 Turk, Matt P 6-5 240 Wis.-Whitewater 14 - cut

37 Walker, Darius * RB 5-11 205 Notre Dame - cut

83 Walter, Kevin WR 6-3 214 Eastern Michigan - keep

98 Weaver, Anthony DE 6-3 280 Notre Dame 6 - trade or cut

90 Williams, Mario DE 6-7 291 N.C. State - keep

73 Winston, Eric T 6-7 310 Miami (FL) - keep

25 Wynn, Dexter DB 5-9 175 Colorado State 4 - keep

92 Zgonina, Jeff DT 6-2 290 Purdue 14 - cut




# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
47 Abbate, Jon * FB 5-11 245 Wake Forest - cut, we dont need 3 FB's20 Alexander, Roc DB 5-10 190 Washington - cut

51 Barber, Shawn LB 6-2 240 Richmond - cut

26 Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 215 Notre Dame - cut

30 Green, Ahman RB 6-0 218 Nebraska - cut

31 Harrison, Brandon * S 6-2 215 Stanford - keep

62 Jackson, Scott G 6-4 300 Brigham Young 3 * who?

97 Killings, Cedric DT 6-2 310 Carson-Newman - he should retire

13 Mathis, Jerome WR 5-11 191 Hampton 3 - cut

76 McKinney, Steve C 6-4 302 Texas A&M 10 - cut

23 Robinson, Dunta CB 5-10 174 South Carolina - keep

22 Simmons, Jason S/CB 5-9 198 Arizona State - cut

27 Taylor, Chris RB 5-11 220 Indiana - keep

70 Weary, Fred G 6-4 308 Tennessee 6 - keep

63 White, Chris C 6-2 285 Southern Miss. 2 - keep

PUP

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
77 Spencer, Charles T 6-4 352 Pittsburgh - he better be a keeper



If we did this, no way we could fill half of these holes. I bolded the ones that I think we have to keep....and on left Ahman off because I think he might hang it up. A lot of these guys are solid depth that we need.

Hardcore Texan
12-17-2007, 11:08 PM
sorry.....double post.

Grid
12-17-2007, 11:22 PM
Just looking at the ones you bolded..

C.C. Is definatly one of our best Safeties..why would you cut him?

Bruener is old.. I could see us cutting him if a replacement became available.

Clark has been starting at OLB for us for half the season, he hasnt lit the league on fire but our defense hasnt been bad with him in it..why wouldnt you AT LEAST keep him as depth?

Cut...Greenwood? What the hell have you been smoking? Why would you even consider such a thing? Have you bothered to watch a game since 2005? The guy has played in 13 games and has 100 tackles, a sack, and an INT. He is one of our best defensive players. Good LORD man.

Kalu..yah maybe.

Putzi..same as Bruener...but if Daniels goes down we would REALLY regret not having Putzier to back him up unless we got a good quality replacement.

Turk.. if we can find another quality punter..sure.

Walker.. of our 4 RBs..Walker is the second best behind Dayne. Yah...I dont think cutting him would be smart.

Weaver..and Kalu? I hope Cochran is feeling really freaking healthy next year. Weaver or Kalu..someone needs to stay.

So you want to cut Cook and Abbate? Cause we only need one FB? Dude.. did you watch the Bucs game? the FB is important to this offense. We need 2.

Glenn Earl gets the boot too huh? No way. Earl and Brown have both been quality safetys for us. They are 2nd stringers at the least.

Mathis..yah..get him out of here. We have plenty of good WRs and he has blown his chance 10 times over.

McKinney.. cutting McKinney is entirely dependent upon what we do this offseason. If we get a hold of a quality Center from another team..then cut him. If we draft a center, keep him..so the new Center can be eased in.


Simmons.. ok earl, simmons, and brown.. Demps HAS looked good, but I dont know that im ready to say he is capable of being our ENTIRE secondary.

ObsiWan
12-17-2007, 11:33 PM
What I'd really like to see is who's contract is up after this year. That'll tell me who to re-sign and who to let walk.

Anyone got that info?? Is there already a thread on that someplace??

TEXANRED
12-17-2007, 11:44 PM
Just looking at the ones you bolded..

C.C. Is definatly one of our best Safeties..why would you cut him?

Thats like saying Tito is the most well adjusted Jackson.



Clark has been starting at OLB for us for half the season, he hasnt lit the league on fire but our defense hasnt been bad with him in it..why wouldnt you AT LEAST keep him as depth?

Clark had a few good games against his former teams but he is just alright, nothing to write home about. IMO he is less than average, he is dead weight, and needs to go.

Cut...Greenwood? What the hell have you been smoking? Why would you even consider such a thing? Have you bothered to watch a game since 2005? The guy has played in 13 games and has 100 tackles, a sack, and an INT. He is one of our best defensive players. Good LORD man.

Jay Forman had a bunch of tackles too. He is always behind the play and his assigned areas in passing situations are as vulnerable as the French.


Walker.. of our 4 RBs..Walker is the second best behind Dayne. Yah...I don't think cutting him would be smart.
Thats like saying Jermaine is the second most well adjusted Jackson.

Weaver..and Kalu? I hope Cochran is feeling really freaking healthy next year. Weaver or Kalu..someone needs to stay.

One is to old and the other is unproductive and is playing in the wrong system. I would rather play Cochran and draft or pick up SFA then have either of them wearing steel blue, battle red, and liberty white.

Maybe trade weaver.

So you want to cut Cook and Abbate? Cause we only need one FB? Dude.. did you watch the Bucs game? the FB is important to this offense. We need 2.
Then Taylor can play FB when he is not to busy being the 3rd string RB next year. Its a waist of a roster spot.

Glenn Earl gets the boot too huh? No way. Earl and Brown have both been quality safetys for us. They are 2nd stringers at the least.
These guys have been the worst safety duo since Eric Brown and Matt Stevens.



McKinney.. cutting McKinney is entirely dependent upon what we do this off season. If we get a hold of a quality Center from another team..then cut him. If we draft a center, keep him..so the new Center can be eased in.

We definitely need someone who is younger and more dependent. This is the second year in a row McKinney has been hurt.


Simmons.. ok earl, simmons, and brown.. Demps HAS looked good, but I don't know that im ready to say he is capable of being our ENTIRE secondary.
We are the 19th ranked Defense. Better than last year, sure, but not good enough. We already know what we have in these guys and its not good enough. I would rather free up the roster spots and try out other kids.

The guys that I said to cut are unproductive or on the downside of there careers.

And our LB core is as horrible as our safeties. If you want to see what a real LB/Safety looks like watch Green Bay.

drewmar74
12-18-2007, 12:02 AM
Things we can trade FOR Faggins:

2. tray of nachos, a hot dog and a drink.


I'll take number 2, just as long as the drink is a cold beer.

Thanks!

AnthonyE
12-18-2007, 12:28 AM
50 Anderson, Charlie LB 6-4 243 Mississippi 4 - Keep, good special teams guy.

89 Anderson, David WR 5-10 194 Colorado State 2 - Cut, haven't seen much.

32 Bennett, Fred * CB 6-0 197 South Carolina 0 - Favorite rookie, keep.

71 Black, Jordan T 6-5 310 Notre Dame 4 - If he's gone, I won't miss him.

28 Boulware, Michael S 6-3 220 Florida State 4 - Cut.

7 Boyd, Shane QB 6-1 232 Kentucky 1 - Who? I still want Zebranksy.

65 Brisiel, Mike G 6-5 300 Colorado State 1 - A lot of promise. Maybe we can groom him?

24 Brown, C.C. S 6-0 208 Louisiana-Lafayette 3 - PA guy makes him sound really good, although he doesn't do much.

3 Brown, Kris K 5-11 206 Nebraska 9 - Probowler, obvious keep.

87 Bruener, Mark TE 6-4 260 Washington 13 Quality depth?

78 Butler, Rashad T 6-4 293 Miami (Fla.) 2 - Heard the name, don't remember who he is.

55 Clark, Danny LB 6-2 245 Illinois 8 - He's decent. Keep for depth, I guess.

96 Cochran, Earl DE 6-5 284 Alabama State 3 - One of my favorite players. I'm still mad at him for that roughing the kicker penalty against the bears in the preseason, though.

43 Cook, Jameel FB 5-10 237 Illinois 7 - Cut. I like the guy, but fumbles to easily.

40 Cox, Curome S 6-1 204 Maryland 3 - I've seen him make plays in special teams, but maybe cut.

81 Daniels, Owen TE 6-3 247 Wisconsin 2 * Future probowler (if he holds on to the ball.) (AGREE)

11 Davis, André WR 6-1 195 Virginia Tech 6 - Keep. Easy.

36 Dayne, Ron RB 5-10 245 Wisconsin 8 - Quality depth, nice runner to make defenses tired.

47 Demps, Will S 6-0 208 San Diego State 6 * He has shown he deserves a spot on the team and needs to get with the WR coach to learn to catch. (AGREE)

54 Diles, Zac * LB 6-0 240 Kansas State 0 - I make him good in madden. Keep considering he's a rook.

85 Dreessen, Joel TE 6-4 260 Colorado State 3 - Can hang on to the ball in tough situations.

33 Echemandu, Adimchinobi RB 5-10 226 California 4 - Cut. I appreciate what he did in SD, but neeahhh.

38 Faggins, Demarcus CB 5-10 178 Kansas State 6 - To be honest, I like the guy... I like his character. Good special teams guy and he made me famous via Battle Red Day picture. (LOL) However, cut because people don't like him.

58 Flanagan, Mike C 6-5 301 UCLA 12 - Ew, cut.

21 Fletcher, Jamar CB 5-10 180 Wisconsin 7 - Keep. Depth.

75 Frye, Brandon * T 6-4 302 Virginia Tech 0 - I remember the pick, but has he played?

56 Greenwood, Morlon LB 6-0 238 Syracuse 7 - Consistent. 100+ tackles per year. Good compliment to DeMeco.

57 Hodgdon, Drew C 6-3 309 Arizona State 3 - In limited action, he's been decent.

34 Hutchins, Von DB 5-9 181 Mississippi 4 - Keep. We're lucky to have him. We'd be in serious trouble if he weren't on the team.

80 Johnson, Andre WR 6-3 219 Miami (FL) 5 - Probowler. Keep, dur.

99 Johnson, Travis NT 6-3 305 Florida State 3 - Keep, he makes some good plays and he's fearless. He gets after QBs and all that jazz. Not afraid to fight.

12 Jones, Jacoby * WR 6-2 210 Lane College 0 - Love the guy, needs to work on his mindset in the offseason.

94 Kalu, N.D. DE 6-3 265 Rice 10 - Rice alum in the NFL? Keep.

53 Kershaw, William LB 6-3 240 Maryland 2 - Who?

44 Leach, Vonta FB 6-0 250 East Carolina 4 - Keep, def. Great player.

95 Maddox, Anthony DT 6-1 295 Delta State 4 - Keep, one of my favorites since last year's CLE game.

91 Okoye, Amobi * DT 6-2 302 Louisville 0 - If no rookie wall, he'd be droy.

48 Pittman, Bryan LS 6-3 270 Washington 5 - 1 bad snap in 1000. Keep.

69 Pitts, Chester G/T 6-3 320 San Diego State 6 - Keep, I like the guy.

88 Putzier, Jeb TE 6-4 256 Boise State 6 - Very good TE depth.

18 Rosenfels, Sage QB 6-4 225 Iowa State 7 - One of the best backups in the league. Keep or trade.

59 Ryans, DeMeco LB 6-2 236 Alabama 2 - Future Probowler, should be in this year. Keep.

74 Salaam, Ephraim T 6-7 300 San Diego State 10 - Keep for depth.

8 Schaub, Matt QB 6-5 237 Virginia 4 - If not injured, top 5 QB in the league. (in yards and all that. not TDs. :/)

64 Studdard, Kasey * G 6-2 303 Texas 0 - Keep.

1 Turk, Matt P 6-5 240 Wis.-Whitewater 14 - Keep, big upgrade from Stanley dispite inconsistency.

37 Walker, Darius * RB 5-11 205 Notre Dame 0 - Keep, shown promise.

83 Walter, Kevin WR 6-3 214 Eastern Michigan 5 - Good #2.

98 Weaver, Anthony DE 6-3 280 Notre Dame 6 - Cut. He's a great media-friendly player, but geez. I want a pass rusher. Maybe we should draft one in the 1st round next year?! O_O

90 Williams, Mario DE 6-7 291 N.C. State 2 - Had doubts at the beginning of the season, but he's really pulling it together. Should be in probowl.

73 Winston, Eric T 6-7 310 Miami (FL) 2 - Developed into good RT.

25 Wynn, Dexter DB 5-9 175 Colorado State 4 * don't see much out of him except special teams heh (AGREE)

92 Zgonina, Jeff DT 6-2 290 Purdue 14 - Has cool hair. Keep.


PRACTICE SQUAD

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
79 Bulman, Tim DT 6-4 292 Boston College 3 - Who?
52 Castañeda, Eduardo * LB 6-2 243 ITESM 0 - Gave up big play in preseason. Mexican National player, and we're required to have at least one, so keep. :P
19 Hamilton, Derrick WR 6-4 207 Clemson 2 - Who?
42 Mitchell, Brandon * S 6-3 205 Ohio State University 0 - Familiar name, not familiar with play.

39 Roberson, Derrick * CB 5-10 175 Rutgers 0 - Keep.

66 Robinson, DelJuan * DT 6-3 296 Mississippi State 0 - Who?

68 Stevenson, Dan G 6-5 300 Notre Dame 2 - Who?
86 Williams, Harry WR 6-2 186 Tuskegee 2 - Who?

INJURED RESERVE

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
47 Abbate, Jon * FB 5-11 245 Wake Forest 0 - Didn't even know he was on IR.

20 Alexander, Roc DB 5-10 190 Washington 4 - Keep. depth.

51 Barber, Shawn LB 6-2 240 Richmond 10 - Keep, depth.

26 Earl, Glenn SS 6-1 215 Notre Dame 4 Keep, maybe.

30 Green, Ahman RB 6-0 218 Nebraska 10 - CUT.

31 Harrison, Brandon * S 6-2 215 Stanford 0 - Keep.

62 Jackson, Scott G 6-4 300 Brigham Young 3 - Who?

97 Killings, Cedric DT 6-2 310 Carson-Newman 5 - Keep, its the least we can do.

13 Mathis, Jerome WR 5-11 191 Hampton 3 - ah, keep.

76 McKinney, Steve C 6-4 302 Texas A&M 10 - KEEP. Love this guy.

23 Robinson, Dunta CB 5-10 174 South Carolina 4 - Future probowler. Top 5 CB.

22 Simmons, Jason S/CB 5-9 198 Arizona State 10 - Decent guy, wouldn't matter either way.

27 Taylor, Chris RB 5-11 220 Indiana 1 - Keep. Depth.

70 Weary, Fred G 6-4 308 Tennessee 6 - Keep, I like the guy.

63 White, Chris C 6-2 285 Southern Miss. 2 - Hm?

PUP

# Player Name Pos HT WT College Exp
77 Spencer, Charles T 6-4 352 Pittsburgh 2 - COME BACK! :(

ubecool454
12-18-2007, 09:39 AM
Andre I was almost with you until you said cut glen earl. I think we keep him and if he is not the starter , he provides depth. And greenwood...i don't think so. The guy has been pretty solid.

rmartin65
12-18-2007, 02:18 PM
The hole in his leg bone ? Look there was something there. frustrating as it was to everyone...he was tring to play through a medical condition the doctors missed....several times. Not saying the guy is untouchable...just saying there was a medical reason. I'm not in the room but Kubiak doesn't strike me the kind of coach who likes to be teased. He is however the kind coach that lives and dies with his players if they are giving him a max effort. Emergance of Davis has left him vaneralble....vaneralbel not DOA.

I know. I was being sarcastic. I dont think that he is "phantom injuries". That is why I put some examles out there.

Grid
12-18-2007, 07:24 PM
Thats like saying Tito is the most well adjusted Jackson.


Every player on your team cant be a probowler. C.C. is young, and has shown ability. Cutting him would be idiotic.


Clark had a few good games against his former teams but he is just alright, nothing to write home about. IMO he is less than average, he is dead weight, and needs to go.


I disagree..I think he is decidedly average, and for that very reason he needs to be kept as depth.


Jay Forman had a bunch of tackles too. He is always behind the play and his assigned areas in passing situations are as vulnerable as the French.


This is just bull****. You are operating under the same assumptions that Texans fans had about him after his first year here. He has been one of our best LBs. According to ESPN, he has no tackles for a loss.. neither does DeMeco.. and Morlon is second on the team in tackles, behind only DeMeco.


Thats like saying Jermaine is the second most well adjusted Jackson.


Walker is a Rookie.. a rookie who has played well for us. We need to upgrade at the RB position.. but upgrading does not involve cutting everyone we have now.


One is to old and the other is unproductive and is playing in the wrong system. I would rather play Cochran and draft or pick up SFA then have either of them wearing steel blue, battle red, and liberty white.


One of our strengths on the Dline this year was the ability to trade out Dlinemen regularly without a significant dropoff in production. The dropoff in talent between Cochran, Weaver, and Kalu is negligible. The only way we could afford to lose both Weaver and Kalu is if we spent more money on the Dline, which we DO NOT need to be doing. If a good player for a good price becomes available to us, then by all means..grab him.. but I seriously DOUBT we are going to come get 2 players better than Weaver and Cochran without tieing up MORE money in the Dline.



Then Taylor can play FB when he is not to busy being the 3rd string RB next year. Its a waist of a roster spot.


Taylor? Are you kidding me? Heck...if all it takes to be a FB is the ability to run and 220+ lbs.. we have about 20 guys capable of playing FB for us :P.

Its only a "WASTE" of a roster spot if the position isnt important to you. FB is important to our offense and we need a skilled backup at the position.


These guys have been the worst safety duo since Eric Brown and Matt Stevens.


That is just false..dunno how else to say it. I find it incredible that after a couple years of having absolutely no pass rush..where even a superstar like Dunta struggles to make plays.. we see Brown and Earl put up solid seasons.. but when they get injured, suddenly they are horrible and need to be cut. And now we have a pass rush, but you dont care to keep them around to see what they can do. At the very least they should both be on the team as depth...I could see ONE of them getting cut if we focus on the secondary this offseason.



We definitely need someone who is younger and more dependent. This is the second year in a row McKinney has been hurt.


We need to address the Oline as much as possible this offseason. I would like to see 3-4 new legitimate olinemen on the team.


We are the 19th ranked Defense. Better than last year, sure, but not good enough. We already know what we have in these guys and its not good enough. I would rather free up the roster spots and try out other kids.

The guys that I said to cut are unproductive or on the downside of there careers.

And our LB core is as horrible as our safeties. If you want to see what a real LB/Safety looks like watch Green Bay.


Our 19th ranked defense has alot more to do with youth than talent. We are not untalented, we are just inconsistent. We can use upgrades in many spots, but the only players on our defense that need to be cut are the fringe players.. 3rd string and such. The players that have been starting for us this year, and last year, need to be kept.. either as starters in 2008, or depth.

As for being unproductive.. some people need to understand that every player on your team cant be a superstar. Not everyone is going to be a human highlight reel. Sometimes a good starter is one that just does their job and allows your superstars to excel.

I repeat..

we..cant...have...a...superstar...at...every...pos ition.

That applies to our LB core and our secondary. We COULD use one more OLB that is a bit more dominant out there.. but it is way down our list behind Oline, RB, and CB.

thunderkyss
12-18-2007, 08:47 PM
43 Cook, Jameel FB 5-10 237 Illinois 7 * still have a bad taste in my mouth from him last year


81 Daniels, Owen TE 6-3 247 Wisconsin 2 * Future probowler (if he holds on to the ball.)



Things that make you go, "hmm......"

Texanmike02
12-18-2007, 08:53 PM
I am still of the opinion that we should keep Faggins. Considering the injury issues that we have had, I am wary of getting rid of ANY of our secondary guys unless we can easily upgrade them.. and I dont think Faggins is half as bad as people here make him out to be.

As hard as I've been on him. I agree comletely. He's a HORRIBLE CB2 because of his lack of speed but as a dime back he's not bad at all. He is actually very good when the field is shortened (when we're defending the redzone) because he good until he has to match stride for stride for more than 20 or 30 yards.

Mike

thunderkyss
12-18-2007, 09:03 PM
These guys have been the worst safety duo since Eric Brown and Matt Stevens.


We are the 19th ranked Defense. Better than last year, sure, but not good enough. We already know what we have in these guys and its not good enough. I would rather free up the roster spots and try out other kids.

The guys that I said to cut are unproductive or on the downside of there careers.

And our LB core is as horrible as our safeties. If you want to see what a real LB/Safety looks like watch Green Bay.


I agree on the LBs, I love Demeco, but all three need to be upgraded. Moving Demeco to the weekside, & getting us a mean SOB in the middle would be my priority in the offseason..... defense wise.

I know with Demeco's Pro-Bowl selection, this won't be a popular opinion, & Greenwood had a great year. But we need better play from our LBs.

Of course, Richard Smith's reluctance to blitz may be clouding my judgement some.

Safety... I really like Glenn & CC Brown. Like Grid says, you can't get ProBowlers at every position, but I don't really think there are many Safeties that wil improve this team that much, over Glenn & Brown.

And in the event you find someone you'd like to start over them, they are at the very least second string. why get rid of them??

Demps & Von Hutchins make for good depth if you ask me. I even like the idea of using Von Hutchins as the nickel back, and keeping fletcher behind him.

IMHO, if we get better play from our LBs in pass coverage, our safeties will look like Pro-Bowlers.

One last thing. We've got to get a real CB. We can't be satisfied knowing Dunta is our best CB.

Hardcore Texan
12-18-2007, 09:14 PM
806879]Just looking at the ones you bolded..[/B]

C.C. Is definatly one of our best Safeties..why would you cut him?

Bruener is old.. I could see us cutting him if a replacement became available.

Clark has been starting at OLB for us for half the season, he hasnt lit the league on fire but our defense hasnt been bad with him in it..why wouldnt you AT LEAST keep him as depth?

Cut...Greenwood? What the hell have you been smoking? Why would you even consider such a thing? Have you bothered to watch a game since 2005? The guy has played in 13 games and has 100 tackles, a sack, and an INT. He is one of our best defensive players. Good LORD man.

Kalu..yah maybe.

Putzi..same as Bruener...but if Daniels goes down we would REALLY regret not having Putzier to back him up unless we got a good quality replacement.

Turk.. if we can find another quality punter..sure.

Walker.. of our 4 RBs..Walker is the second best behind Dayne. Yah...I dont think cutting him would be smart.

Weaver..and Kalu? I hope Cochran is feeling really freaking healthy next year. Weaver or Kalu..someone needs to stay.

So you want to cut Cook and Abbate? Cause we only need one FB? Dude.. did you watch the Bucs game? the FB is important to this offense. We need 2.

Glenn Earl gets the boot too huh? No way. Earl and Brown have both been quality safetys for us. They are 2nd stringers at the least.

Mathis..yah..get him out of here. We have plenty of good WRs and he has blown his chance 10 times over.

McKinney.. cutting McKinney is entirely dependent upon what we do this offseason. If we get a hold of a quality Center from another team..then cut him. If we draft a center, keep him..so the new Center can be eased in.


Simmons.. ok earl, simmons, and brown.. Demps HAS looked good, but I dont know that im ready to say he is capable of being our ENTIRE secondary.

Please tell me that you are not talking to me.....I bolded the ones I want to keep, and you commented on those.

Grid
12-18-2007, 09:41 PM
Please tell me that you are not talking to me.....I bolded the ones I want to keep, and you commented on those.

No I was talking to the original poster about the ones that you bolded.

Hardcore Texan
12-18-2007, 09:43 PM
Okay, just checking, it seemed like we were pretty much in agreement, thanks!

Fox
12-18-2007, 09:43 PM
I agree on the LBs, I love Demeco, but all three need to be upgraded. Moving Demeco to the weekside, & getting us a mean SOB in the middle would be my priority in the offseason..... defense wise.

I know with Demeco's Pro-Bowl selection, this won't be a popular opinion, & Greenwood had a great year. But we need better play from our LBs.

Of course, Richard Smith's reluctance to blitz may be clouding my judgement some.

Safety... I really like Glenn & CC Brown. Like Grid says, you can't get ProBowlers at every position, but I don't really think there are many Safeties that wil improve this team that much, over Glenn & Brown.

And in the event you find someone you'd like to start over them, they are at the very least second string. why get rid of them??

Demps & Von Hutchins make for good depth if you ask me. I even like the idea of using Von Hutchins as the nickel back, and keeping fletcher behind him.

IMHO, if we get better play from our LBs in pass coverage, our safeties will look like Pro-Bowlers.

One last thing. We've got to get a real CB. We can't be satisfied knowing Dunta is our best CB.


I agree with most of this but wanted to comment on two things I disagree with. I think we'd be better off looking for an upgrade at strong side LB than looking for an upgrade at MLB and pushing Demeco into Greenwood's spot. Demeco might make a great WLB, but he was the best MLB in the AFC this year, why screw with something that's working so well there. Greenwood's been solid most of the year, and even been a difference maker in a couple games.

The other thing is that at this point I'd like to leave Demps starting as our FS and keep CC at SS if we can keep them signed. CC's always been a guy who's debatably been a better SS than FS, and while Demps misses tackles occasionally and drops some easy picks, he makes so many plays that it balances out IMO.

At this point I like the idea of keeping Hutchins and Faggins on the roster as depth. Hutchins is great because he can be serviceable as a corner or a safety, and Faggins makes a pretty good dime back. We definitely need to pick up another corner to pair with Bennett, since we have no idea when and how Dunta's going to come back from his injury. Major props to Smith for finding Bennett in the 4th, he's been a pleasant surprise this year.

One other move I'd like to see on the defensive side of the ball would be for us to go get a pass rushing RE so we can move Williams to LE on a more regular basis. Williams looks better as a LE, IMO, and having a second pass rusher from the RE position would make Kubiak's "I want to generate all of my pass rush with only my front four," theory make more sense.

thunderkyss
12-18-2007, 10:21 PM
One other move I'd like to see on the defensive side of the ball would be for us to go get a pass rushing RE so we can move Williams to LE on a more regular basis. Williams looks better as a LE, IMO, and having a second pass rusher from the RE position would make Kubiak's "I want to generate all of my pass rush with only my front four," theory make more sense.

I was watching Tennessee play San Diego the other day(DVR), I know, I know, it's the tacks. But the front 4 of those two teams(I know SD plays a 3-4), were something to watch.

VandenBosh & Haynesworth were amazing. They would move KVB on either side, and sometimes, they'd put Haynesworth in at RDE sometimes, with Kyle at RDT. SanDiego didn't know which way was up. Shane Olivea & Marcus McNeil looked like scrubs.

Now, Shawn Merriman(who got stumped by a tight-end every now and then) moves from side to side of course, But he and Olshansky wrecked Havoc on the Tennesse line. & While Igor is a 3-4 DE, he lined up outside the OLT, while Merriman rushed the guard several times.

It was beautiful.

I think Mario can handle it. The moving around.

& if you want to pressure a QB with 4 downlinemen, this is the way you do it.

brakos82
12-18-2007, 10:27 PM
sorry.....double post.
:wild:

TEXANRED
12-18-2007, 10:45 PM
Every player on your team cant be a probowler. C.C. is young, and has shown ability. Cutting him would be idiotic.

I agree with that, but since you know this, what is the point in hanging onto them? I can throw a stick in this town two miles in any direction and hit at least 20 people who can play safety. I bet you if Smith had to he could pull a SFA and not experience a drop off in what CC Brown brings to the table. There is nothing special unless you count the fact that he is constantly out of position and bite on the run fake 90% of the time.



I disagree..I think he is decidedly average, and for that very reason he needs to be kept as depth.
I disagree, Clark is below average. But in any case I would rather have young and average with upside than a guy who is going to be collecting a SS check next year. Clark's well is dry and this team needs to pursue a player who has upside if they are going to get better as a unit.



This is just bull****. You are operating under the same assumptions that Texans fans had about him after his first year here. He has been one of our best LBs. According to ESPN, he has no tackles for a loss.. neither does DeMeco.. and Morlon is second on the team in tackles, behind only DeMeco.
No just watching the games and not reading the stats. Obviously his previous team felt the same way about him, along with the Texans and Raiders. Forman was terrible in coverage and didnt know how to wrap up.



Walker is a Rookie.. a rookie who has played well for us. We need to upgrade at the RB position.. but upgrading does not involve cutting everyone we have now.
Walker is afraid to get hit and runs out of bounds rather than take on tacklers. Lundy was a better talent and I don't see Lundy anywhere near this team.



One of our strengths on the Dline this year was the ability to trade out Dlinemen regularly without a significant drop off in production. The drop off in talent between Cochran, Weaver, and Kalu is negligible. The only way we could afford to lose both Weaver and Kalu is if we spent more money on the Dline, which we DO NOT need to be doing. If a good player for a good price becomes available to us, then by all means..grab him.. but I seriously DOUBT we are going to come get 2 players better than Weaver and Cochran without tieing up MORE money in the Dline.
Weaver is supposed to be and DE and he is not, he is not even close. He needs to get traded to a 34 defense. You really don't expect Kalu to come back for a 14th season do you? He had a strong start but age has dictated he slows down if he is going to make it through the NFL season. We don't need these older people that are going to slow down as the season wheres on if we are going to make the playoffs.

You don't need to spend alot of money on DLine to add depth. Maddox was a SFA. Or even better you can get a solid younger, cheaper DLineman in the second day of the draft.




Taylor? Are you kidding me? Heck...if all it takes to be a FB is the ability to run and 220+ lbs.. we have about 20 guys capable of playing FB for us :P.

Its only a "WASTE" of a roster spot if the position isnt important to you. FB is important to our offense and we need a skilled backup at the position.

Taylor was practicing as a FB during training camp this year to have a chance to make the team. If you have not noticed Kubiak does not activate three RB's. So if Taylor is going to be activated for games he is going to have to play FB. Which means I get to cut Cook and Abante(sp) who was a converted LB.



That is just false..dunno how else to say it. I find it incredible that after a couple years of having absolutely no pass rush..where even a superstar like Dunta struggles to make plays.. we see Brown and Earl put up solid seasons.. but when they get injured, suddenly they are horrible and need to be cut. And now we have a pass rush, but you don't care to keep them around to see what they can do. At the very least they should both be on the team as depth...I could see ONE of them getting cut if we focus on the secondary this offseason.
Brown and Earl put up average seasons. Demps is clearly and upgrade and was even made a Pro bowl alternate. Where is Brown?

I never liked Earl, and liked Brown less. So no, it wasn't just when they get hurt. They are not real safeties.

Demps, McCree, Atwater, Lynch, Williams, Dawkins, Harrison, Taylor, Chuck Cecil. Those guys are safeties. Thats how you play that position.




We need to address the Oline as much as possible this offseason. I would like to see 3-4 new legitimate olinemen on the team.

Seriously, is it too much to ask to draft a LT in the first round?



Our 19th ranked defense has alot more to do with youth than talent. We are not untalented, we are just inconsistent. We can use upgrades in many spots, but the only players on our defense that need to be cut are the fringe players.. 3rd string and such. The players that have been starting for us this year, and last year, need to be kept.. either as starters in 2008, or depth.
This defense is at a turning point. Williams is going to be in his third year, as well as Ryans, Amobi in his second, Travis his fourth, DRob his fifth, Bennett his second. All those guys, all of those guys are going to be pro bowlers.

Demps should be our starter next year and start to look for Browns replacement. We need two outside line backers. You like Greenwood, thats nifty. I think everyone should have at least one fan outside there mom. I think he would look real good in a Titan uniform. I would then throw at him all day long.

The point that I am trying to make is that if we are going to get better we keep searching for better players at every position and continue to up grade every chance we get and not let our personal emotions get involved. Personally, I am a fan of the Texans and not anyone player. The only player who's spot is cast in stone is AJ. The other 21 starters are expendable.

As for being unproductive.. some people need to understand that every player on your team cant be a superstar. Not everyone is going to be a human highlight reel. Sometimes a good starter is one that just does their job and allows your superstars to excel.

I repeat..

we..cant...have...a...superstar...at...every...pos ition.

That applies to our LB core and our secondary. We COULD use one more OLB that is a bit more dominant out there.. but it is way down our list behind Oline, RB, and CB.

This entire statement is hog wash. Yes you can, and teams have done it. The Oilers has it on both side of the ball, the Cowboys just sent 11 guys to the pro bowl, look at the patriots, Indy, ect.

And before you say that they are special circumstances, I would like to point out that its not special, that is what playoff caliber teams look like. We just have not seen that here in Houston in 15 years. That was the last time a Houston NFL team went to the playoffs. 1993.

Grid
12-19-2007, 02:10 AM
....

Sending 11 players to the pro bowl is roughly HALF your team.

Possible Pro-Bowl Caliber players on the Texans:

Andre Johnson
Owen Daniels
Vonta Leach
Mario Williams
Dunta Robinson
Demeco Ryans
Amobi Okoye
Kris Brown
Fred Bennett
Matt Schaub

There is 10 guys that could play at a pro-bowl level with enough help around them.

Other possibilities: Kevin Walter, Travis Johnson, Will Demps, Jacoby Jones, Andre Davis, Chester Pitts, Charles Spencer, Eric Winston, Morlon Greenwood (yah), Michael Boulware

All of these players are guys that COULD feasibly be pro-bowl caliber players if our team is firing on all cylinders.

Having 11 pro-bowlers has nothing to do with having superstars at every position, and everything to do with having a good cohesive team that knows how to win.

If you expect us to have superstars all over the field before we are a playoff caliber team..its gonna be 2093 before we ever see a playoff berth..and thats only if they abolish the salary cap and McNair decides to throw money around like Dan Snyder.


And I dare you to throw a stick 2 miles in any direction and not hit a fat man, an old woman, or a child. 20 people within every 2 mile radius that are capable of playing Safety better than Brown/Earl? ..I should just stop typing right now because that is just ...i dont even know what it is. Impossible to comprehend..thats what it is.

Greenwoods previous team used him in an entirely different way. Even so.. he was a valuable part of thier defense even though he didnt put up the flashy stats. I will concede that a good OLB should be something we target (eventually) this offseason. But not to replace Greenwood. Greenwood needs to stay..he is solid.

As for Taylor...we were practicing ALOT of people at FB this offseason.. and Taylor didnt make the squad. What does that tell you? You seem to believe that football talent is something that everyone possesses in spades..except for the guys you want to cut. Well, im sorry to say that just throwing a jersey on someone and having them practice at a position does not make them a viable candidate for a spot on the 53 man roster.


And Walker ran out of bounds like...twice.. when he played. If you are going to criticize him, then you should pick at his lack of speed, power, and experience. He has vision and good decision making skills..other than that he is lackluster and I doubt he will ever be more than a 3rd string RB for us. But he is young and I could be wrong, and because of that..I dont want to get rid of him. Its fairly stupid to get rid of a player after one year unless they have shown that they cant play at an NFL level. Walker definatly hasnt shown that.

Demps, McCree, Atwater, Lynch, Williams, Dawkins, Harrison, Taylor, Chuck Cecil. Those guys are safeties. Thats how you play that position.

Demps has been good for one game. A bit of caution may be in order before you cut ever other safety we have. And id like to add Sanchez, Gutierrez, Myers, Black, Rosewood, Smith, Carter, Nguyen, Singh, and McMillavich to your list of superstar safetys. Those are all the people within stick throwing distance of myself right now.. take your pick.

Rex King
12-19-2007, 11:09 AM
I agree with your main premise, but disagree with this bit:

....As for Taylor...we were practicing ALOT of people at FB this offseason.. and Taylor didnt make the squad. What does that tell you?
Didn't Taylor get injured before cuts? I think trying him at FB had more to do with the staff's lack of confidence in Cook.

Demps has been good for one game. A bit of caution may be in order before you cut ever other safety we have. And id like to add Sanchez, Gutierrez, Myers, Black, Rosewood, Smith, Carter, Nguyen, Singh, and McMillavich to your list of superstar safetys. Those are all the people within stick throwing distance of myself right now.. take your pick.
It's more than one game. He's played well since he's taken over the starting role. If healthy, I'd keep Earl and Simmons because we can't upgrade every position this offseason, or have superstars everywhere as you say, but those two are big question marks to me because of their injuries.

Andrew6
12-19-2007, 01:43 PM
[QUOTE=Grid;807624]....


Having 11 pro-bowlers has nothing to do with having superstars at every position, and everything to do with having a good cohesive team that knows how to win.

exactly look at how well Jacksonville has been and didn't send one player to the probowl.

BigBull17
12-19-2007, 02:25 PM
I agree on the LBs, I love Demeco, but all three need to be upgraded. Moving Demeco to the weekside, & getting us a mean SOB in the middle would be my priority in the offseason..... defense wise.

I know with Demeco's Pro-Bowl selection, this won't be a popular opinion, & Greenwood had a great year. But we need better play from our LBs.

Of course, Richard Smith's reluctance to blitz may be clouding my judgement some.

.

Um, if we werent gonna move Demeco with Patrick Willis on the board, he isnt moving.

beerlover
12-19-2007, 03:19 PM
I like our LB's besides DeMeco (defined leader) Morlan Greenwood is steadily improving, still young & only going to get better. Charlie Anderson is a unrestricted free agent, drafted by Casserly to be LOLB behind Babin. lately he has also adapted to the 4-3 upgrading his play & receiving more pt. I would say they re-sign him. Boulware is the question mark, he needs his contract re-structed if he stays with the team, seems limited to special teams & back-up SLB.

Rick Smith has really stacked cupboards on IR, some of whom we have yet to see regular season action. alot of tough decisions will have to made in free agency & the draft. other than cb & rb I beleive the emphasis will be on solidifying the front lines with at least one new starter on each + two more long term to develop. :twocents: