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Double Barrel
12-15-2007, 02:11 PM
Does anyone know where to find our red zone statistics? How many attempts and the results? Also, can we find it broken down by QB? I've got a buddy that was asking me about Schaub and Rosenfels, and I can't find the thread that I thought mentioned these specific game stats.

Any help is greatly appreciated! :howdy:

joedinkle
12-15-2007, 02:44 PM
I don't know where to find the statistics, but I think you'll be better served looking for redzone statistics with Andre Johnson and without Andre Johnson.

TexansLucky13
12-15-2007, 02:50 PM
Ten bucks says Rosenfels is better in the RZ....

Lucky
12-15-2007, 02:55 PM
Matt Schaub's red zone stats: (http://www.nfl.com/players/mattschaub/situationalstats?id=SCH085186)

53.3% - 5 TD - 1 INT - 89.4 QBR

Sage Rosenfels red zone stats: (http://www.nfl.com/players/sagerosenfels/situationalstats?id=ROS396938)

78.9% - 8 TD - 0 INT - 125.3 QBR

TexansLucky13
12-15-2007, 02:56 PM
Matt Schaub's red zone stats: (http://www.nfl.com/players/mattschaub/situationalstats?id=SCH085186)

53% - 5 TD - 1 INT - 89.4 QBR

Sage Rosenfels red zone stats: (http://www.nfl.com/players/sagerosenfels/situationalstats?id=ROS396938)

78.9% - 8 TD - 0 INT - 125.3 QBR

Sweet Jesus Mary and Joseph.

So when does a QB discussion become a QB controversy?

:stirpot:

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 03:06 PM
Sweet Jesus Mary and Joseph.

So when does a QB discussion become a QB controversy?

:stirpot:

When Andre Johnson is not playing with either QB you will have a better sample of data to spark a controversy.

TexansLucky13
12-15-2007, 03:09 PM
When Andre Johnson is not playing with either QB you will have a better sample of data to spark a controversy.

This is true. Regardless, there will be intense discussion about this in the off season, I am sure.

I can't wait!

:sarcasm:

tulexan
12-15-2007, 03:22 PM
I really think that in the minds of the coaching staff, there is no discussion. Matt was brought in to be our franchise QB and he lost his job from an injury, not performance. What Sage is showing us is that he is one of the best backup QB's in the league and can step in when necessary. Matt has shown us that when he has a healthy team, he is a top 10 QB in the league.

Thorn
12-15-2007, 03:37 PM
If Sage starts, has a good game, and wins against Indy, it's gonna be a very interesting off season. http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

Lucky
12-15-2007, 03:37 PM
...I think you'll be better served looking for redzone statistics with Andre Johnson and without Andre Johnson.

Matt in RZ with AJ: 66.7% - 4 TD - 0 INT - 122.5 QBR
Sage in RZ with AJ: 80.0% - 3 TD - 0 INT - 125.8 QBR

Stats include a spike by Matt in RZ to stop clock. Doesn't include a red zone fumble by Sage in TB game, or the rushing TD Sage had in Broncos game.

HJam72
12-15-2007, 03:38 PM
I think if Rosenfels were younger we'd have a QB controversy. By the offseason, we still might. Right now we still don't.

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 03:39 PM
Matt in RZ with AJ: 66.7% - 4 TD - 0 INT - 122.5 QBR
Sage in RZ with AJ: 80.0% - 3 TD - 0 INT - 125.8 QBR

Stats include a spike by Matt in RZ to stop clock. Doesn't include a red zone fumble by Sage in TB game, or the rushing TD Sage had in Broncos game.

Friggin AJ is flat out money.

HJam72
12-15-2007, 03:42 PM
I think Carr was a little better. :jk:

AnthonyE
12-15-2007, 03:48 PM
I don't want to even talk about it.

Lucky
12-15-2007, 04:00 PM
Friggin AJ is flat out money.
Of course, the Sage Supporters will say that Rosenfels doesn't need AJ to get-r-done. :gun:

Forgetting the numbers, my observation is that Matt plays more "coached" than Sage, and is better in the pocket. Sage is faster & looser, and can make more plays outside the pocket. With a better offensive line, Matt would look better. With what the Texans have now, Sage's mobility is very helpful.

HJam72
12-15-2007, 04:02 PM
Of course, the Sage Supporters will say that Rosenfels doesn't need AJ to get-r-done. :gun:

Forgetting the numbers, my observation is that Matt plays more "coached" than Sage, and is better in the pocket. Sage is faster & looser, and can make more plays outside the pocket. With a better offensive line, Matt would look better. With what the Texans have now, Sage's mobility is very helpful.

Holy Bull! We're still talking about getting better in the red zone? :splits:

Welcome to Houston, Texas, where the red zones are painted and considered part of the endzones.

Double Barrel
12-15-2007, 04:39 PM
Matt Schaub's red zone stats: (http://www.nfl.com/players/mattschaub/situationalstats?id=SCH085186)

53.3% - 5 TD - 1 INT - 89.4 QBR

Sage Rosenfels red zone stats: (http://www.nfl.com/players/sagerosenfels/situationalstats?id=ROS396938)

78.9% - 8 TD - 0 INT - 125.3 QBR

Matt in RZ with AJ: 66.7% - 4 TD - 0 INT - 122.5 QBR
Sage in RZ with AJ: 80.0% - 3 TD - 0 INT - 125.8 QBR

Stats include a spike by Matt in RZ to stop clock. Doesn't include a red zone fumble by Sage in TB game, or the rushing TD Sage had in Broncos game.

Thanks for the information, Lucky! :thumbup

Maddict5
12-15-2007, 04:46 PM
are matt's 70 yard td passes to aj included in those figures? :)

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 04:48 PM
are matt's 70 yard td passes to aj included in those figures? :)

Nope, just red zone defined by the situational stats by being in the opponent's side of the field from the 19 yard line through the goal line.

Double Barrel
12-15-2007, 04:50 PM
Any idea how many RZ possessions each QB has? The discussion presented to me was that Sage has more chances in the RZ than Matt, which I disputed.

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 04:53 PM
Any idea how many RZ possessions each QB has? The discussion presented to me was that Sage has more chances in the RZ than Matt, which I disputed.

That granular reporting I do not believe is available and would constitute taking the data that is out there at the team level and then splicing it from there based upon who was under center. The data that Lucky has produced is only based on passing attempts and does take into account rushes.

Maddict5
12-15-2007, 05:16 PM
Nope, just red zone defined by the situational stats by being in the opponent's side of the field from the 19 yard line through the goal line.

my point was that sage and aj havent had any huge plays yet.. like matt and aj do

joedinkle
12-15-2007, 05:44 PM
Redzone issues aside, I think that Matt is more likely to make the big play. That just demoralizes the defense. But I don't understand why every wants to start Sage over Matt. What has Matt shown you that makes you believe he's not a good starting QB. With a better running game and better PASS PROTECTION(not just sacks taken, but how many times have you seen Matt hurried or hit after he's thrown? TONS!) Matt can be a top 10 QB easy, and with more time in the system and a healthy AJ a top 5 QB.

Maddict5
12-15-2007, 06:09 PM
That granular reporting I do not believe is available and would constitute taking the data that is out there at the team level and then splicing it from there based upon who was under center. The data that Lucky has produced is only based on passing attempts and does take into account rushes.

sage is the clear winner in the redzone offence

ugh that was painful:


matt has qb'ed 23 trips to the RZ resulting in 9 tds, 13 fgs, 1 int, 0 fumbles
sage has qb'ed 15 trips to the RZ resulting in 12 tds, 1 fgs, 1 int, 1 fumble (v TB)


note this was done manually and was pretty boring but hopefully theres not mistake...

1) @atl we got to the atl 19 after a 3rd down pass and kicked a fg- i didnt count that since it really wasnt a RZ offence imo
2) sages int came on a play @ the SD 20.. i always thought from 20 in was the RZ so i counted it
3) 1 of matts fg's came as we ran out of time in the first half v the saints.. we kicked it on 2nd down after a spike

Mr PC
12-15-2007, 06:11 PM
I think once he develops Schaub will bascially be a Matt Hasslebeck type QB. He wont ever be Manning, but with the right pieces in place he could still take the team to the superbowl. He has struggled in the red zone, this is quite common among rookie QBs because the red zone is the most difficult area to pass in. Sage Rosenfels has been awesome this season, no question about it. People ask the question what has Matt done to deserve losing the starting spot, but they never ask the opposite question, what has Sage done to deserve to lose the starting spot. There is no question that Sage has played every bit as good as Matt.

Mr PC
12-15-2007, 06:13 PM
matt has qb'ed 23 trips to the RZ resulting in 10 tds, 13 fgs, 0 int, 0 fumbles
sage has qb'ed 15 trips to the RZ resulting in 12 tds, 1 fgs, 1 int, 1 fumble (v TB)



are you sure about this? I seem to remember Matt throwing at least one INT while in the red zone.

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 06:14 PM
sage is the clear winner in the redzone offence

ugh that was painful:


matt has qb'ed 23 trips to the RZ resulting in 10 tds, 13 fgs, 0 int, 0 fumbles
sage has qb'ed 15 trips to the RZ resulting in 12 tds, 1 fgs, 1 int, 1 fumble (v TB)


note this was done manually and was pretty boring but hopefully theres not mistake...

1) @atl we got to the atl 19 after a 3rd down pass and kicked a fg- i didnt count that since it really wasnt a RZ offence imo
2) sages int came on a play @ the SD 20.. i always thought from 20 in was the RZ so i counted it
3) 1 of matts fg's came as we ran out of time in the first half v the saints.. we kicked it on 2nd down after a spike

Appreciate the work, did you account for the AJ variable?

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 06:16 PM
are you sure about this? I seem to remember Matt throwing at least one INT while in the red zone.

I believe that was a pass play involving AJ (just outside of the RZ) and AJ did not make a great effort.

The Pencil Neck
12-15-2007, 06:23 PM
are you sure about this? I seem to remember Matt throwing at least one INT while in the red zone.

Yes, he had one against the Colts right after the big JJ punt return, iirc.

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 06:27 PM
Yes, he had one against the Colts right after the big JJ punt return, iirc.

Good memory

Indianapolis Colts at 06:14
1-10-IND 26 (6:14) 29-J.Addai right guard to IND 29 for 3 yards (56-M.Greenwood).
2-7-IND 29 (5:43) 18-P.Manning pass incomplete short left to 87-R.Wayne (23-D.Robinson).
3-7-IND 29 (5:33) (Shotgun) 18-P.Manning pass incomplete short right to 44-D.Clark.
4-7-IND 29 (5:26) 17-H.Smith punts 63 yards to HOU 8, Center-48-J.Snow. 12-J.Jones ran ob at IND 18 for 74 yards (17-H.Smith). (Punt hang time 3.8 seconds.) HOU's 12 Jones injured on the return and taken for x-rays.

Houston Texans at 05:09
1-10-IND 18 (5:09) 8-M.Schaub pass short middle intended for 83-K.Walter INTERCEPTED by 58-G.Brackett at IND 3. 58-G.Brackett to IND 29 for 26 yards (44-V.Leach).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29229&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG3

Maddict5
12-15-2007, 06:34 PM
are you sure about this? I seem to remember Matt throwing at least one INT while in the red zone.

i do too but apparently not on a play from the 20 or inside... maybe on the 25or 30 yd line


Appreciate the work, did you account for the AJ variable?

no but i still have the info here


sage: with aj: 7 RZ trips: 6 tds, 1 fumble
without aj: 8 RZ trips: 6 tds, 1 fg, 1 int (impressive):


matt: with aj: 12 RZ trips: 6 tds, 6 fgs
without aj: 11 trips: 3 tds, 7 fgs, 1 int

Maddict5
12-15-2007, 06:35 PM
Good memory

Indianapolis Colts at 06:14
1-10-IND 26 (6:14) 29-J.Addai right guard to IND 29 for 3 yards (56-M.Greenwood).
2-7-IND 29 (5:43) 18-P.Manning pass incomplete short left to 87-R.Wayne (23-D.Robinson).
3-7-IND 29 (5:33) (Shotgun) 18-P.Manning pass incomplete short right to 44-D.Clark.
4-7-IND 29 (5:26) 17-H.Smith punts 63 yards to HOU 8, Center-48-J.Snow. 12-J.Jones ran ob at IND 18 for 74 yards (17-H.Smith). (Punt hang time 3.8 seconds.) HOU's 12 Jones injured on the return and taken for x-rays.

Houston Texans at 05:09
1-10-IND 18 (5:09) 8-M.Schaub pass short middle intended for 83-K.Walter INTERCEPTED by 58-G.Brackett at IND 3. 58-G.Brackett to IND 29 for 26 yards (44-V.Leach).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29229&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG3

oops sorry guys:gun:

its fixed... when it was only a 1 play 'drive', i mustve missed it scanning through the play-by-play

Mr PC
12-15-2007, 06:59 PM
sage: with aj: 7 RZ trips: 6 tds, 1 fumble
without aj: 8 RZ trips: 6 tds, 1 fg, 1 int (impressive):


matt: with aj: 12 RZ trips: 6 tds, 6 fgs
without aj: 11 trips: 3 tds, 7 fgs, 1 int

nice work, thanks for compiling the stat. I cant help but notice that Sage likes to get TDs when he is in the red zone.

Maddict5
12-15-2007, 07:09 PM
nice work, thanks for compiling the stat. I cant help but notice that Sage likes to get TDs when he is in the red zone.


yep sage def have much better stats in the RZ but i did notice we kicked some really short fgs earlier in the season (on ATL 1 yard line most memorably).. i dont think we'd see that today

Double Barrel
12-15-2007, 08:05 PM
i do too but apparently not on a play from the 20 or inside... maybe on the 25or 30 yd line




no but i still have the info here


sage: with aj: 7 RZ trips: 6 tds, 1 fumble
without aj: 8 RZ trips: 6 tds, 1 fg, 1 int (impressive):


matt: with aj: 12 RZ trips: 6 tds, 6 fgs
without aj: 11 trips: 3 tds, 7 fgs, 1 int

Thanks for the information. Very interesting to read.

The Pencil Neck
12-16-2007, 02:59 AM
IIRC, early in the season, Matt had a couple of questionable throws in the red zone. After those throws (including the interception), he started playing it a lot safer in situations like that. Sage wings them in there in the RZ. Some of his throws are really threading the needle.

I think Matt's just trying not to make a mistake and lose points when he's down there and that was keeping him out of the end zone.