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View Full Version : $$$ and Ego vs. Production...which will win?


GP
12-13-2007, 11:34 PM
I finally agree with Collinsworth on something.

Here's the sounbite, word-for-word from the in-game announcing at 1:32 left in the 4th quarter:

Hammond: He [Kubiak] might have found a quarterback tonight.

Collinsworth: Yeah, I tell ya', I don't know how you take him [Sage] out. I don't care if Matt Schaub's healthy or not healthy, this guy's won three ballgames for ya', (camera cuts to Kubiak, looking very proud and happy) he's 3-0 as a starter...the league's all about production, it's not about who gets paid the most (camera cuts to Sage, wearing a bandage on his chin).

Hammond: Wearing that badge of honor there on his chin, the bandage, as he directs another victory by the Houston Texans.

---------------------------------------

Now guys, you can leave all the standard comebacks at the door. Please use original material if you're going to attempt to spin this your way. And stop and remember that there was a time earlier this season when you would CHOP AN ARM OFF for a win like this on national television.

You guys gripe and moan and whine about our team not getting national games, not getting "the love" from the media all off-season/camp/pre-season/regular season, and you come here and try to make guys like me find a silver lining to the mess that was known as Matt Schaub.

I go and FIND a silver lining, stand on it, and take your crap for it...and you are going to do the same thing that the media has done about Mario: Stick your head in the sand and act like nothing is going on here.

Sage owned. He's a big reason we've won 3 games. This team is repsonding to him. But you're not.

To you, he's just a backup. I;ve heard it all week: "Yeah, I am really glad that we have a great backup like Sage in case Schaub goes down" or this one's a great line, too, that gets thrown around: "Everybody loves the backup QB..."

Well, the guy just handed you a gift tonight (with other great efforts by other players) and let's see you Big Boy Up and admit it. But I scanned the game thread tonight, and I saw you guys going wayyyy out of your way to avoid mentioning the guy. It was obvious.

So go ahead and fire away. I want to hear some original stuff tonight. Please dazzle me with your great analysis...cuz all I got to say is that Sage Rosenfels played a great game tonight. I haven't seen Matt Schaub play like this from start-to-finish in any of the 4 games he's won.

Whoops, hold on a second. I gotta' stop and type out what the guys are saying in the postgame analysis. Let's take it to the booth and join them in-progress.....

Parting comments (word-for-word, you can check it) by Steve Mariucci on NFLN: "I don't know why you hurry back Matt Schaub. This guy's [Sage] is playing well enough to win the next games..."

If Sage finishes out with at least one more win, it produces a heckuva' situation for this team: Sage is going to want starting money. We have that money and the draft picks tied up in Schaub. No way does a guy like Schaub want to go the offseason wondering if he's the guy or not, and now way Sage wants to be hung out and twisting in the wind all off-season. This is going to be interesting. You can't pay two QBs a starting salary and have two starters. Something's going to give.

And I bet we let Sage go.

Sage is flourishing in this system. You can see the intensity on Kubiak's face at the end of the game. But I think Kubiak is still stubborn enough to go with Matt Schaub and let Sage go elsewhere. And you guys probably could care, either. Right?

Brandon420tx
12-13-2007, 11:35 PM
I'm not going to go one way or another, I've picked my position and I'll stand by it. The Houston Texans have 2 Starting Quarterbacks.

gtexan02
12-13-2007, 11:38 PM
I say we should trade Rosenfels while he's hot. SD got rid of Brees, and Phi got rid of Garcia. You can't keep your highest paid QB sitting on the bench. Schaub will be great in this league. Rosenfels is good, too, but get something for him while we can

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2007, 11:39 PM
Hello Atlanta ... we'll take two 2nd rounders for Schaub .

TexanSam
12-13-2007, 11:41 PM
I say we should trade Rosenfels while he's hot. SD got rid of Brees, and Phi got rid of Garcia. You can't keep your highest paid QB sitting on the bench. Schaub will be great in this league. Rosenfels is good, too, but get something for him while we can

It's too early for that I think. Neither Sage or Schaub has proven to be a good QB over an entire season. Both Schuab and Sage have done it at times this season, Sage most recently, but I wouldn't trade either of those guys right now. One of them has to prove that they can be an above average QB for 16 games before the Texans decide to trade one of them if that's the route they choose. That's why they should keep both of them right now.

junior
12-13-2007, 11:44 PM
Hello Atlanta ... we'll take two 2nd rounders for Schaub .

Big rep point for that, count me in.

buddyboy
12-13-2007, 11:45 PM
I'm really sick of hearing "I told you so". YES. Sage has played well. YES. He has outplayed Schaub lately. YES. You were right. NO. Don't rub everyone's face in it. Do you get some kind of sick pleasure from this? I find it appropriate that the thread's title has "Ego" in it.

Nawzer
12-13-2007, 11:55 PM
Sage was good and congrats to him on playing a good game. But let's not get too crazy about Sage being a great qb. He's played some good games and has done an excellent job of managing the game. Other than the Titans game in Houston, where he made some amazing plays, he's played well but also made some mistakes. He threw an ill advised pass tonight that got picked off by Dre' Bly and last week agains the Bucs he had a fumble when he should've thrown the ball away. Tonight Sage made some good throws and some basic passes and that's his game. I think coaching staff more than anything deserves credit on gameplanning around Sage's strengths. Matt Schaub in my mind is still the starter for us. Matt's had to adjust to a new team, new coach, new city, new playbook. Also, he's adjusting to starting full time in this league and I think that's a tougher job than what it seems like. Schaub hasn't done anything to suggest he's significantly worser than Sage as a qb. He's made big plays and won a few games but injuries have unfortunately kept him out. Bottom line is, I think Matt Schaub is the starting qb next year. I hope Sage will return but if not I hope we can get something back for him. It's not the first time a backup has looked good and nor will it be the last time.

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2007, 11:58 PM
This is another hindsight thing but I think that we might have been better off with Sage and grooming a young guy .

I tried and did'nt find it but last year I posted taking Trent Edwards in the 3rd ... oh well Matt's a good QB .

Grid
12-14-2007, 12:07 AM
I already said my piece on this.

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45233

To say that its money and ego that won out if Schaub starts is a huge overstatement, and lame to boot.

GP
12-14-2007, 12:55 AM
This is another hindsight thing but I think that we might have been better off with Sage and grooming a young guy .

I tried and did'nt find it but last year I posted taking Trent Edwards in the 3rd ... oh well Matt's a good QB .

Agreed.

This IS a hindsight thing, for sure. I rode Matt Schaub's jock when we signed him. I admit it.

But watching him this season has not been fun. I have 3 or 4 points that I have posted about Schaub and why I think he's bleeding and not succeeding:

1. He's not durable.

2. He's slow getting away from center, which KILLS a QB in today's NFL where defenders are soooo much faster than they used to be.

3. He can't sense blindside pressure well enough or fast enough.

4. He's not a distance runner: He looks good in short bursts.

OMG, I figured it out: He's Drew Bledsoe.

Both of these guys look great when they have all day to pass, but they get smacked around and hurt a lot. They both are compassionate, passionate leaders...admired by their teammates and by coaches...but I think Schaub is headed down the same road as Bledsoe.

Andrew6
12-14-2007, 12:57 AM
I've come to the conclusion that Houston is a LUCKY SOB for having 2 QB's with the ability to win games. The question is are they both willing to share time?

GP
12-14-2007, 01:09 AM
I've come to the conclusion that Houston is a LUCKY SOB for having 2 QB's with the ability to win games. The question is are they both willing to share time?

I just don't see it happening. We WILL be lucky if Sage sticks around.

My bet is that he bolts for another gig.

Chicago is looking like one of many possible stops, IMO. Reckon they would be in the playoff hunt with Sage as their QB this season? Maybe not with having somewhere around the 30th ranked defense against the run this year.

But still, Sage is going to find a place elsewhere next season, IMO.

Hasn't Schaub had prior history with a shoulder (in college)?

Wouldn't be smart to let Sage go. And I would think that the intent would be to open the job up for a battle at camp. Maybe. Hopefully.

Leahmic223
12-14-2007, 01:23 AM
What is so wrong with Schaub?

Has anyone been watching him when all those players were hurt? Has anyone seen how any WR we plug in produces when he's back there? Sage is good, but Schaub is younger plus you have to think about the money issue.

Schaub toughness is in question? Really, it was a MIRACLE Carr didn't get hurt with the horrible LTs we've had. The blindside tackle is SUPER IMPORTANT. I don't think you question a guys toughness after one season, its just been a bad year IMO everyone's been nicked up.

But I think the key thing here is that Schaub still put up good numbers for his first year as a starter, find me a QB that tore up the NFL in his first year as a starter... there isn't many. Not only that he MADE our passing attack a threat. When you heard about our offense it was all about our passing attack, and he did this WITHOUT Andre Johnson whereas Sage is doing it with him.

Schaub is the guy, no doubt in my mind. As a lot of GREAT coaches say and as Ditka says "You don't lose your starting job because of injury." Sage understands that which is why he will be on another team. I hope Kubes understands that also, there is a reason Schaub is the starter. Otherwise Kubes could have easily let Sage be the 'interim' QB like Bledsoe has been for so many teams. The QB that fills in until they draft or find a good young QB to hand the team to.

Hooston Texan
12-14-2007, 01:26 AM
I've said my bit on Schaub in another thread, but to answer one point our Schaub-critic makes here about a history of shoulder problems:

Schaub played for three years at UVA, starting 29 games. He suffered one injury during that time--a separated right shoulder in the first game of his senior year (his left shoulder is the one that is hurt now). He came back after missing the next two games and took every snap the rest of the way that year. The injury took a little zip off his ball the first few games, but after that, he was back to his old self--in the last game of the season, he barbecued DeAngelo Hall and the Hokies.

So yes, he's had one prior shoulder injury, but it was the other shoulder.

GP
12-14-2007, 01:32 AM
I've said my bit on Schaub in another thread, but to answer one point our Schaub-critic makes here about a history of shoulder problems:

Schaub played for three years at UVA, starting 29 games. He suffered one injury during that time--a separated right shoulder in the first game of his senior year (his left shoulder is the one that is hurt now). He came back after missing the next two games and took every snap the rest of the way that year. The injury took a little zip off his ball the first few games, but after that, he was back to his old self--in the last game of the season, he barbecued DeAngelo Hall and the Hokies.

So yes, he's had one prior shoulder injury, but it was the other shoulder.

Perhaps (and I'm not a doctor, not pretending to be one either) a history of shoulder separations, especially in two different arms...might be indicative of a genetic/inherited degenerative situation?

In short, maybe the guy is prone to dislocations of the joints?

I know that Portis has had one big shoulder separation...and I read that once it happens to you, you are a lot more likely to have it happen again. I had heard that even wearing the harness that Portis wears is not going to really help. In fact, I think he wore it and it happened again to him.

Not questioning Schaub's "heart" here, which I think is what a lot of people think (and are pissed at me for, perhaps). I am realistically and logically looking at what MIGHT be a situation where a QB (Schaub) is a "lifer" on the training table.

He might not be physically able to perform, for lack of a better phrase.

Texanmike02
12-14-2007, 02:16 AM
Stop me if this isn't origional.

Schaub had us 1 posession away from beating Indy. He did it with out AJ. He did that with AD as his primary receiver. Does anyone remember how we were talking about AD while AJ was hurt? We had NO running game when he was hurt.

Sage has wins over Oakland,Tampa and Denver. Non of which are AFC playoff quality teams. Tampa is lucky they play in the NFC or they'd be a 5 win team. Denver isn't the same old Denver and do I need to tell you how bad a team that starts Andrew Walters voluntarily?

I'm not saying Sage is bad. We are raving about how he played, no doubt. But he had at least 3 passes that should have been picks. He is good for several bad throws a game. Go ahead. Kill me for it. Tell me I'm crazy. I'm the Debbie Downer. But we played Denver. They are tied with the 9ers for 23rd with 2 sacks a game. Oakland for the record is worse. And Tampa is 14th. He played a good game but he's not the savior. If we could get a 2nd for him... I'd do it in a heart beat. The good news... we might be able to. If Rex can start... I'm sure Sage can win a job.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a Sage fan. I'm a Schaub fan. I just want the best man out there doing what he does winning ball games. I just happen to think that is Schaub at this point. Well maybe that's not accurate. I am pretty sure that Sage won't win games against the guys we need to beat. Play a fast defense like Indy (I kinda wish Freeney was playing this week. We'd really learn alot about Sage if he was) and I don't think he puts enough zip on the ball to be consistantly successful. I also don't know what Schaub has. He hasn't had his weapons. He played behind 4 or 5 different offensive lines due to injury and he's only had a training camp and a few weeks to digest the play book. We might have a better idea of what Sage REALLY is after Jacksonville.

Mike

Mr PC
12-14-2007, 02:19 AM
I just don't see it happening. We WILL be lucky if Sage sticks around.

My bet is that he bolts for another gig.

Chicago is looking like one of many possible stops, IMO. Reckon they would be in the playoff hunt with Sage as their QB this season? Maybe not with having somewhere around the 30th ranked defense against the run this year.

But still, Sage is going to find a place elsewhere next season, IMO.

Hasn't Schaub had prior history with a shoulder (in college)?

Wouldn't be smart to let Sage go. And I would think that the intent would be to open the job up for a battle at camp. Maybe. Hopefully.

There is zero chance of this happening. Sage cannot leave even if he wanted to, he is under contract for the next two seasons. The only way he will leave is if a team offers Kubiak an arm and a leg for Sage and thats not going to happen. Sage is going to stick around right here, he and Matt will compete for the starting position in training camp. Either way we will have no worries about QB.

Mr PC
12-14-2007, 02:22 AM
I think its worth pointing out that Sage was throwing against the best secondary in the NFL. He only gave up 1 INT on a tipped pass, and he gave up zero sacks the whole game. Any time the offense can put up over 30 points the Texans will win the game. Sage moved the chains and was big in the red zone. And is still undefeated as the starting QB.

austintexanite
12-14-2007, 02:26 AM
Man, I'm feeling to good to put up a good argument. Sage played solid, no more no less.

euro-Texan
12-14-2007, 05:21 AM
Man, I'm feeling to good to put up a good argument. Sage played solid, no more no less.

I agree, he had a great start on the first drive and then missed on like the next ten attempts. The running game bailed the team out, he played above average and finished real strong. I think it's almost irresponsible to talk about a QB controversy. The same talking heads that brought that up were the ones who called Mario a bust. They only care about who’s hot at the moment and they love stirring the pot. Hopefully Kubes keeps a cool head. Sage knows his role. I sure like having a solid back-up with our history of injuries, but if Sage has high value in the off season I say we shop him or keep him right here as the back-up. If Shaub was playing like crap, got hurt and all of a sudden Sage turned the team around, that might be different, but there are more variables here. Schaub has been playing real well and took some serious abuse from late hits etc. If sage couldn't replace Carr than we might be getting ahead of ourselves here.

HJam72
12-14-2007, 05:37 AM
If don't know if Schaub is going to play anymore this season, but regardless of that we've got the last two games and then training camp and preseason to decide this. We've got both of these guys under contract, so there's really a lot more time than that. Right now, Sage looks to me like the better QB, but even that is not really by much. Right now is of course a vapor in the wind. If Sage plays against Indy and Jax the next 2 weeks, we will find out a lot about him and his potential.

Both of these QBs are good, and both have flaws. They're also similar, I think.

I think Sage has proven that we didn't need to go out and get Schaub, but even that decision could still turn out to be the right one. We just didn't NEED to is all.

Maddict5
12-14-2007, 05:51 AM
:

1. He's not durable.

2. He's slow getting away from center, which KILLS a QB in today's NFL where defenders are soooo much faster than they used to be.

3. He can't sense blindside pressure well enough or fast enough.

4. He's not a distance runner: He looks good in short bursts.

OMG, I figured it out: He's Drew Bledsoe.

Both of these guys look great when they have all day to pass, but they get smacked around and hurt a lot. They both are compassionate, passionate leaders...admired by their teammates and by coaches...but I think Schaub is headed down the same road as Bledsoe.

that 2-4 could just as easy be sage btw.. look sage has played well no doubt but imo matt brings more to the table in the long run- hes going to get better imo.. matt had games where he didnt fumble or throw ints

and hes had games where hes made stupid throws (like sage also).. im not bothered who plays as long as they win but i think we'll win more games with schaub (and a healthy aj of course:) )