View Full Version : Are we playing the 3-4 wrong?

11-22-2004, 10:45 AM
Just curious what others think, but I have been looking at some other teams rosters, and it seems we have a slower more heavy Defensive End-line.

Gary Walker
Height: 6-2
Weight: 324

Robaire Smith
Height: 6-4
Weight: 328
***************Combined for 1 and 1/2 sacks, and 41 tackles.
*****Avg. Weight: 326
***Avg. Height: 6' 3"

Aaron Smith
Height: 6-5
Weight: 298

Kimo von Oelhoffen
Height: 6-4
Weight: 299
***************Combined for 6 sacks, and 41 tackles.
*****Avg. Weight: 298 1/2
***Avg. Height: 6' 4-1/2"

Ty Warren
Height: 6-5
Weight: 300

Richard Seymour
Height: 6-6
Weight: 310
***************Combined for 4 and 1/2 sacks, and 53 tackles.
*****Avg. Weight: 305
***Avg. Height: 6' 5-1/2"

It seems to me that the D line is making plays as well as plugging up the line. While the Texans are just plugging up the line. I think its time to look into getting a more athletic DE, instead of slow monsters. When was the last time you saw Seymour let a QB run around like Farve did?

Just something to think about.

Source NFL.com

11-22-2004, 10:50 AM
The Steelers and Pats have more talent than we do in their front 7's. That has a lot to do with it. If we had better linebackers our line would probably produce a little bit more. We have 1 top caliber linebacker (Sharper), one rookie starting (Babin), one average player (Wong), and one guy who couldn't start on any other 3-4 team other than ours (Foreman).

11-22-2004, 12:15 PM
Speaking of Babin, he provded no rush whatsoever last night. Now, I realize he is a rookie, but good pash rushers generally have an innate ability to go get the QB. He has been inconsistent at best, and generally subpar. Consider that a SF reject like Jeff Posey is our leading sack artist ever, so far as I know. Last night, we didn't blitz very often, and when we did it was not effective. Isn't the hallmark of the Capers 3-4 rushing the QB? Folks, we are LAST in the league in QB sacks. I ask again - is it THIS 3-4 that is at fault? In other words, is this version that Fangio is running too complicated? Do we have the wrong personell? Or do we need to scrap this D, and run a less complicated 4-3? These questions need to be answered this offseason, because in 3 years, the pass rush has been pathetic.

11-22-2004, 12:22 PM
The Packers give up less than one sack a game. We don't rush as well as your average NFL team. 2+2 generally = 4. Expecting sacks last night was setting yourself up for being dissapointed.

11-22-2004, 12:23 PM
I think they overpaid in a big way for Gary Walker this past offseason. His skills were declining and he's getting old quickly and I think they signed him to something like a 4 year contract for big bucks. And he's done nothing to speak of this year.

I'll give Babin a pass since he's a rookie in a new position but he's had some fairly good games and then some where he disappears. Perhaps it's more fair to critique his next season.

Smith, I thought, was a good sign but I'm not seeing as much as I expected from him.

Payne I think is just getting back to some decent playing strength after his horrific injury.

So there you go. You play with what you have.

11-22-2004, 12:26 PM
The problem is not the 3-4, the problem is how it is used and to some extent the players. The pass rush has not been good, but half of that problem is the lack of blitzing, the lack of getting the right players on the field in situations, and the lack of pressure from the Dline. I think that this team will be able to grow greatly by next year. With Babin and Peek having more time to get experience this year, and getting rid of Foreman for either Wong to move over or getting someone else, the Linebackers should be improved greatly next year. We need to either find someone in the draft for the Dline or get someone GOOD in FA. I think it is hard for people to wait for vast improvements, i know i have been with Babin, but if you take a look at things they can improve rather quickly.

One thing I would like to add, my weekly Peek comment. I know he was hurt this week, but when he comes back is he going to get some playing time? He proved he can play at Indy, and another thing of interest to me is that he was featured AGAIN on the Texans web page. It basically said that he doesnt get the time he deserves based on how he has played this year. So far in his two years he has been featured like 3 times on the teams page. I think its time to let him do some things on the field, if this team isnt going to the playoffs this season, then they should start getting the team ready to make a realistic run next season.

11-22-2004, 12:29 PM
I think it would be a good idea to move Smith to the NT, and let Payne rotate in. I dont think Walker is going anywhere. And an idea would be to get a more athletic, faster, DE. And like you said Vinny, we do have a mediocre LB corp. I like Babin, and Sharper to stay where they are, move Wong inside, and to see Foreman upgraded.

If we used only the draft to upgrade these positions, I could see Ahmad Brooks, first round, and Trade up to get Erasmus James 1st round as well.

or Dan Cody
or Marcus Spears

I doubt you can get both. But you get the idea.

11-22-2004, 12:51 PM
The Packers give up less than one sack a game. We don't rush as well as your average NFL team. 2+2 generally = 4. Expecting sacks last night was setting yourself up for being dissapointed.

I wasn't really speaking entierly about last night, although last night was part of the problem. We got no pressure on Favre at all. I was speaking about the entire year. Not only are we not sacking QB's, we are not putting pressure on them either. We are last in the NFL in sacks, using a defense designed to put more pressure on the QB. Isn't that one of the reason Capers is partial to his 3-4? We are 30th in yards given up, and our 3rd down % is LAST in the league. I think both of these are tied in rather strongly to the lack of a pass rush. At some point, someone must be held accountable. Are we not drafting correctly, is the defense too complicated, is the coaching bad, do the players not fit the scheme? These questions need to be throughly evaulated in the offseason.

11-22-2004, 01:00 PM
There is nothing wrong with the 3-4 defense that we our running, our problem is the lack of talent at key areas. Jay foreman is a huge weaklink in the linebacker spot, and babin is just a rookie! IN an idea world we would have two ends that can stuff the run and rush the passer! and you want their weight to be around 290-320. Gary walker used to be the ideal fit for what you wanted in the 3-4. Now he's alittle old and injuries have killed him.

11-22-2004, 01:15 PM
first off I agree with you Porky on most points, primarilly accountability. so far Casserly has done an impressive job in only three years of NFL existance aquiring the players to be competitive. this week the Texans were competitive. Farve did get pressure, Payne tried to arm tackle him & Babin over ran on a blitz. two INT's & only 1 TD.

we've exhausted the scheme itself, the players who are compatible to pull it off are in place it seems to me its the defensive coordinators responsibility to make the calls. By the end of the game the defense was exhausted the best they could hope for was to keep their man in front & make a quick tackle. The lack of any 2nd half offense (on the Texans part) & depth proved the Texans undoing.

11-22-2004, 01:46 PM
I think Jerry DeLoach played in place of the injured Gary Walker last night
and the DLine turned in a solid effort against the run - didn't really miss Walker in the least. I Dunno, but I was surprised at how much Walker wanted to resign this past winter and even more surprised when we gave it to him.
And DeLoach is about 5 years younger than Walker and a FA after this season. Maybe we should have saved that $ for DeLoach.