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pittbull
11-22-2004, 01:03 AM
I hope that only fans who understand the game of football will read this. If your a person that goes to the game to be seen, for the tailgating, to wear face paint and say you were there, this isn't for you!!! Reason being, your excuse to last night's loss is the same, "we we're that close!" Sorry to say this, but "BULL!!!" Although Christ Palmer seems to be a O-Coordinator who can draw up "some" nice plays, he also either seems to become numb when having a lead in the second half, or Dom Capers needs to go!! Guess what folks, I'm not going to blame Palmer this time. I have to many family members who have played in the "League", friends who have, and are playing in the "league", and both sets know too much about what happens on the sidelines! O-Coordinators like to score, that's why they are coaches, but HEAD COACHES have the final decision.
Most of you know I am originally from Pittsburgh, PA, and guess what, Dom Capers went through that town! As a disciple of Bill Cowher, both of these guys do the same thing, slow down the second half if they have a lead. Neither fail to realize, if your defense doesn't have the talent to carry your team, score until the lights fall out the scoreboard, especially when you have a future hall of fame QB on the other side of the ball. This philosophy is what go Capers run out of Carolina, failing to win close games and losing the respect of his team. Don't blame David Carr, he just runs the offense after the play is sent in. Don't blame Dominic Davis when every defense in the league knows that Dom will run the ball, to try to kill the clock. Don't blame the o-line who is at the mercy of eight in the box, when Gaff and Johnson could be thrown to for first downs. For all who don't know, this is why they spend countless hours in the filmroom, game planning for "what-ifs"! Well, the what if hit them, and they made the decision to dummy the offense. POINT BLANK! We are in a better situation if we are down by 3-to-7 point heading into the second half, rather than up, letting these coaches kill the "MO"! Not only will the game continue to be exciting, but the players will use their GOD-Given talents. Myself, BullPenAndy, SheTexan, and Joe Texan can do what they did in the second half. AJ gets paid to be a 4.3 speedster, not a 5.9 extra run blocker! Carr gets paid to be a rocket armed QB, not a third string signal caller, who hands off to the running back! If I was the offense, I would revolt! Refuse to play under these circumstances. It's easy to see, we know what works and I'm sure those guys do to. Hopefully, someone will shake up the coaching staff, and give them some sight! Ask the Colts, if your not close enough to win, how can you come back!:hmmm:

ATX
11-22-2004, 01:29 AM
we need to get a winner for a coach. i say hire stoops from oklahoma. that guy knows how to win and it is only a matter of time before he'll be in the nfl. the time is now, capers isn't a winner, palmer isn't a winner, sure casserly is a proven winner, but he isn't coaching, just getting us the talent. what we need is a winner, not a loser like capers. sure he's a nice guy, but nice guys don't stay around long in the nfl. you have to be a winner. Stoops now or never.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 01:34 AM
i dunno its been seen that most college coachs that go to the NFL never work out, i saw get one of these young fresh adventurious coordinators assistant coaches and give him a shot like atlanta did with jim mora !!!!!!!!

ATX
11-22-2004, 01:38 AM
let's see, what about jimmy johnson? the problem with college coaches is that not enough true winner coaches get into the nfl. spurrier was never really a winner. sure he was good, but never like a stoops, switzer, or johnson. those guys are winners. and the fact remains that most if not every nfl coach went through college coaching at some time or another.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 01:40 AM
yeah but they also became either defensive, offensive, special team coordinators before they became head coaches !

jnhcarrfans
11-22-2004, 01:43 AM
we throw in the towel to quick. we need to give it time. it will work out. DD will come back around. It's only his 2nd year. We expected to much from this team. look at the bright side we could be the lions. have you read there board. they want mooch and joey h out of detriot. now!!!! we are not that bad.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 01:47 AM
is it not funny to you davis rushed for a 1000 yards last season , so the COACHES decide to change to a new blocking scheme now he is one of the lowest rushing RBs in the NFL ???? Seems like a strange call to me !! Why change what works ?

Grid
11-22-2004, 01:48 AM
even if what you say is true.. coaches need time to grow too.. and Capers has not yet had enough time to show whether or not he is incapable of running the Texans. It is only the third season and we are not yet a solid team. We have buttloads of talent..but that does not make a good team.. when we achieve a bit more balance we will be able to make a better opinion of whether or not it is Capers, or the team.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 01:50 AM
well he couldnt prove it to the panthers, same problem he's having here is a matter of fact maybe 2 more losing seasons and black outs because we cant sell enough tickets will help change yalls minds !

Ediddy73
11-22-2004, 01:54 AM
I have to admit that I didn't bother to read your your highly informative diatribe. I was too busy laughing my butt off at the gross mispelling of the word knowledgeable. way to come off looking like such the MENSA. If you want to be taken seriously, your best bet is to not use words that infer that only people of your rapier wit and superior intellect should read your post, and with more than a twinge of irony, mispelling a word that by definition disqualifies you from reading your own post. I hate spell Nazis as much as the rest of you, but this was too damn funny to pass up. Way to come off looking "knowledgable" FIRE PITTBULL!!!!! lol, hey chicken little, is that a piece of sky on your windshield?

jnhcarrfans
11-22-2004, 01:55 AM
well he couldnt prove it to the panthers, same problem he's having here is a matter of fact maybe 2 more losing seasons and black outs because we cant sell enough tickets will help change yalls minds !

Hey the panthers made the mistake of building there team around veteran players. there is no upside to that. I'll tell you this will be differnt. I think he did a great job when he got that team to 1 play from the superbowl don't you? you just don't do that with an expansion team unless you know what you are doing. His players just got too old. this is a young team look out. we will get better. :patriot

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 02:02 AM
I have to admit that I didn't bother to read your your highly informative diatribe. I was too busy laughing my butt off at the gross mispelling of the word knowledgeable. way to come off looking like such the MENSA. If you want to be taken seriously, your best bet is to not use words that infer that only people of your rapier wit and superior intellect should read your post, and with more than a twinge of irony, mispelling a word that by definition disqualifies you from reading your own post. I hate spell Nazis as much as the rest of you, but this was too damn funny to pass up. Way to come off looking "knowledgable" FIRE PITTBULL!!!!! lol, hey chicken little, is that a piece of sky on your windshield?

yku got A reel priblem if yu r moree consernied wth spellliin thaan thhe tim !!!
He made gooood ponts by the way ! Seems to have more knowledge about the game than you !!!!!! I'll take it you just dont know sh*t about what we're talking about so ya gotta poijnt out a little spelling error !

disaacks3
11-22-2004, 02:10 AM
I was too busy laughing my butt off at the gross mispelling of the word knowledgeable. way to come off looking like such the MENSA. That's not half as impressive as pointing out such an error by following such it with one of your own. That bolded area wouldn't be a non-capitalized sentence fragment, would it? :rofl:

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 02:17 AM
haha i think you are right it seems we have some uneducated fans on here :shocked

rhc564
11-22-2004, 05:19 AM
we throw in the towel to quick. we need to give it time. it will work out. DD will come back around. It's only his 2nd year. We expected to much from this team. look at the bright side we could be the lions. have you read there board. they want mooch and joey h out of detriot. now!!!! we are not that bad.

The point here has nothing to do with the age of the players or how long
they've played together or how long they've been in the NFL or who they
do or do not know,etc. The point is that the Coaching Staff did not put
the players into a posistion for them to win a "WINNABLE" game.

It's not like the players would have been expected to convert plays
they've never used before--- quite the contrary--- they were not given
the oppurtunity to run those plays because of the risk involve, like a turn-
over. But, and this is important, those plays have been used with success
by these Texans to win previous games....It's 'coaching not to lose.'

Trying to win a game and doing whatever it takes to win that game is
called 'coaching to win.' Three quesses how the Texans are coached
most of the time (especially in winnable games like yesterday)and the first
two guesses don't count...

Charlie Weiss does not have a contract yet for next year..... :hmmm:

SheTexan
11-22-2004, 10:14 AM
Get use to it guys! I don't think Casserly/McNair will fire anyone until they have gone past their original 5-6 yr game plan. They will give Capers that much time to prove what he can do. JMO. We're a THIRD year expansion team! Have patience!

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 10:21 AM
patience ????? Hard to have any when Capers is doing the same stuff he was in Carolina, he doesnt adjust, we have the talent to compete the coaches just dont utilize it !!! I mean wheres johnnson and the long ball, gaffney on the slant on 3rd down ? Billy miller right up the middle of the field, the screen ? Ok i can give ya our plays hmmm run it up the gut 2 times in a row, and than throw the ball 2 johnnson 3 yards short of the first down !! Man we really need to be patient guys i mean (who cares if we never win with capers) We still got the cool texans emblem :loser

cuppacoffee
11-22-2004, 10:51 AM
Most of you know I am originally from Pittsburgh, PA, and guess what, Dom Capers went through that town! As a disciple of Bill Cowher, both of these guys do the same thing, slow down the second half if they have a lead. Neither fail to realize, if your defense doesn't have the talent to carry your team, score until the lights fall out the scoreboard, especially when you have a future hall of fame QB on the other side of the ball.

I'm not a Cower fan either but last time I looked he was doing OK in Pittsburgh. :hmmm:
But then I'm just a casual observer who doesnt claim to know much about football.

CAC :coffee:

KKHouston
11-22-2004, 01:56 PM
patience ????? Hard to have any when Capers is doing the same stuff he was in Carolina, he doesnt adjust, we have the talent to compete the coaches just dont utilize it

I don't agree with firing the coaches, but this statement is true. There is no adjustments at halftime. It's clear, Green Bay went in to the locker room, and adjusted. It worked.

We continually play to protect a lead, not to win the ballgame. Capers is known for that, regardless of some of the peanut gallery's comments that are sure to follow. Chris Palmer simply doesn't belong in the NFL, either.

Mr. Capers is a classy, very respectable gentleman, however, that being said, He's not head coach material, and the staff he has chosen is not the right one to lead this team into the future, much past the original five year mark.

Porky
11-22-2004, 02:27 PM
I agree with the jist of Pittbill's comments, although not with some of the specifics. I have been saying since last year, Capers coaches not to lose. This is nothing new. His formula is the same every game. Either try to build a lead, and hang on for dear life, or stay close, and try to pull off a game winning drive. Last night was no different. While I realize we have been talent difficient, we have NEVER even been close to blowing anyone out. This team is being built in the image of it's coach. Therefore, we don't see this team go for the juggular. We see a retreat into a box, cowering in the corner, hoping the boogie man might go away, and we some how come out on top. On top of that, for the third straight game we got outcoached from top to bottom. It's time for Mcnair to seriousely analyze the direction the team is taking under Caper's leadership.

Hervoyel
11-22-2004, 02:48 PM
You know what Porky, with respect to the offensive line (where I believe a great deal of the teams problems live) I question whether the talent deficient argument can hold water. The line starts one guy who's basically a newb and that's Wand. Aside from Wand the line's as experienced as most any in the NFL and they're not sufferring from an injury problem. They've had some guys miss time of course but this was their 10th game together in this system and with these players.

Our starters are playing and practicing and not getting any better. Wade and Weigert were players this team went out and chose to pick up. Same for McKinney and all three have good starting experience in this league. Pitts we drafted and he's started every game since coming into the league. I just find it real hard to conclude (as I suspect you do as well) that these players themselves are not good enough or are not good enough to play better than they have the last three weeks.

Early in the season I knew that the line needed time to do that magical "gel" thing and I didn't start watching NFL football three years ago when the Texans started up. I've been watching this process happen for decades and watching lines (mostly the Oilers line) incorporate new players and position changes. The progress here is slow to a point of being almost invisible. 10 games and not a hint of progress in run blocking or pass protection is cause for alarm. Maybe it wasn't in 2002 when the guys starting on the line were hopelessly incompetent for the most part but this group has players. This group is not deficient in talent.

Not of course that you were arguing that they weren't good enough talent-wise or anthing. Just that I've been seeing the lack of depth/talent being mentioned prominently in several posts today and when I saw you mention it (and it has been a factor in both 2002 and 2003) I chose to comment on it here.

TheOgre
11-22-2004, 03:14 PM
I'm not convinced our offense is that talented. Carr and AJ look like the real deal but who else is good? Gaffney and Armstrong are nice role players but neither strikes me as a true #2 receiver (at least yet). They both strike me as good #3's. Of these two, Armstrong looks more ready to be the #2 man. Bradford has got to go. He isn't doing well as our home run hitter.

Wells and Davis look pedestrian in the backfield. The verdict is still out on Hollings.

The O-line is very inconsistent and the depth at OT is horrible. I think Spears should be nicknamed the Matador. He lets the bull rusher run right past him.

We know what Banks brings to the table but we don't know where Ragone is in relation to Banks (in terms of development).

TE is the forgotten position. Billy Miller and Bruener haven't done much this year. Joppru could end up being the highest bust this team has had. Hopefully he can go later this year.

Defensively, we have 3 rookies that are learning the ropes and doing well. I like Earl, Babin, and Robinson. I still think Foreman should be the first to go defensively, and I think we have some depth issues in many positions. I will say that I am a fan of Marlon McCree. He seems to get overlooked.

Basically every injury exposes our lack of depth. We still need to examine the O-line, RB, ILB (Foreman), TE, nickel back, and the front seven depth.

Porky
11-22-2004, 03:30 PM
Speaking of the TE, you can say they are forgotten, and they are, but who is at blame. Is it lack of skill. Well, I don't think so, considering Miller was our leading receiver in 02. Is it Carr? Is it coaching? I think it's the last one. Nobody is saying that Miller should be the leading receiver, but you have to throw him at least a couple of balls a game. It keeps the defense honest, and can be used to great effect against a cover 2. Against a team like Indy, I really thought they would exploit the center of the field a few times with Miller, but I never saw it.

pittbull
11-22-2004, 03:32 PM
What you have to realize, Cowher, and many that have come from his system, play to lose, rather than to win! If you look at teams in the West Coast offensive scheme, they score until you cannot stop them. If you are well ahead of a team, come the fourth quarter, you don't have to worry about "Hall of Fame" Qb's coming back to bite you in the !@#! Capers plays to lose. Cowher, although he has had success in Pittsburgh, can afford to do this over the years! He built a system, based on a strong defense that can close games down the stretch. HOUSTON DOES NOT HAVE THAT! Pittsburgh has always had a strong running game. HOUSTON DOES NOT HAVE THAT YET! Teams that do not have strong, bruising style, running games, historically put the game out of reach, due to not being able to control the clock well towards the end of the game. What did Indy do to use last week? Sure they have James, but he's not the bruiser who is going to take a pounding, nor is the o-line built to run block for 1 1/2 quarters. Has anyone looked at the size of our tackles? Classic pass protecting tackles! 6'6" and 6'7". Long, lean, and agile, to go against speed rushers, not smaller and stronger for the run! Guess what, we're in the Steeler-style category! We have to put teams out of reach with the weapons we have.