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View Full Version : Domanick Davis - 3rd down back


STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-21-2004, 11:22 PM
That is what he was drafted as, and that is exactly what he is. Now the front office needs to get us a workhorse back to carry the load whether it be through the draft or free agency. What are our options? Ronnie Brown is at the top of my list. Suggestions?

Fiddy
11-21-2004, 11:47 PM
You are my new best friend!!!

I want Ronnie Brown and will make it well known until draft day!!!

BWPaint
11-22-2004, 12:59 AM
That is what he was drafted as, and that is exactly what he is. Now the front office needs to get us a workhorse back to carry the load whether it be through the draft or free agency. What are our options? Ronnie Brown is at the top of my list. Suggestions?

Ronnie Brown, behind this line.....now that is laughable.....you guys keep calling for new players...when all you have to do is look at the Line....watch the tape!!!!

There is no LINE NO LINE NO LINE NO LINE!!!! Geez...

How do you expect anyone to run, when all there are, are Yellow Jersey with big CHEESE HEADS on them waiting for you? Please answer me that....

It aint' the running back my friends, its the line,

Vinny
11-22-2004, 01:03 AM
It is the back, and it is the line. The line will be better via playing together more but Dom will still be Dom. When he goes off and 'explodes', its for 8 yards. He just doesn't have great break-away speed and is not strong enough to run over people. If we did have a great back he would make our line look alot better than it looks to most of you. There were several plays when Dom had one guy to beat and couldn't beat him to bust off a long run. Several.

TexanTom
11-22-2004, 01:58 AM
I'm no expert on running backs or offensive line play - but I feel like 2/3rds of our running plays end up with Domanick Davis running directly into the back of one of his linemen, and I KNOW that isn't an effective way to run the ball especially when your offensive line isn't getting much (any?) push. I thought the whole point of the zone blocking scheme was that it kind of spread the line out and created all these cutting lanes. I've also sorta felt like Davis has been 'running scared' since his fumbling spree in the early games, running like he just wants to get down on the ground and not fumble.
My point is....is Davis not being patient enough for the holes to open up? or is the line not executing the blocking scheme very well and so they all end up bunched up and the lanes would never develop even if Davis waited forever? My gut is telling me Davis isn't being patient enough because I feel like he always is just running into the backs of linemen but my head is saying that the o-line's pass protection has been pretty weak all year so maybe they aren't executing.

Vinny
11-22-2004, 02:08 AM
Dom is on NFL game film now and Teams know how to defend him. Teams scout and know he is not someone you have to commit an extra player to fortify the front-7 in order to stop. Last year he was a bit of an unknown. In order to run for more than 4.0 ypc in the NFL you have to be able to run away from people or run over them because you only have 9 blockers covering 11 players. If they all block their man you still have to beat the unblocked player. Dom can do a little of both (run over or run away from defenders), but if you are objective you can see that he can do a little of both, but its only a little of both.

Breaking down this year...

21 carries, 87 yards (4.1 YPC)
25 carries, 78 yards (3.1 YPC)
10 carries, 12 yards (1.2 YPC)
14 carries, 31 yards (2.2 YPC)
10 carries, 25 yards (2.5 YPC)
22 carries, 56 yards (2.5 YPC)
19 carries, 71 yards (3.7 YPC)
31 carries, 98 yards (3.2 YPC)
21 carries, 65 yards (3.3 YPC)

TOTALS:

173 carries, 523 yards (3.02 YPC) Long run 11 yards

*I heisted these figures and haven't double checked them but they look accurate. You would figure with 173 carries he would have made one linebacker miss or run over one, for one run of more than 11 yards. Just one, but he hasn't. Blocking is part of the dynamic, but it is only part of the equation.

TexanTom
11-22-2004, 02:47 AM
Certainly teams have figured out they only need 7 in the box to stop the run, but they've also figured out they only need a four man rush to get pressure on the QB as well.
Also - I don't feel a lot of the time I watch the replay of a run and say "What was he doing look at that lane he could have gone thru!" So could ANY running back consistently run behind the line in its current state? I know good running backs create some of their own opportunities, but I don't know that the line is giving Davis many opportunities these days...and as you said...he doesn't seem to be at the level to create his own.

But is the solution a new RB, better o-line players, a better blocking scheme to fit our players, or simply more time for the players to get used to the new scheme?

TheOgre
11-22-2004, 08:06 AM
The line definitely didn't block well at times, but Davis had some chances for some decent gains. It seemed like Davis was running the way Wells did in 2002. He showed no speed, little power, and none of that short burst of explosiveness he had last year. He had 3-4 times where it was down to one guy to beat and he could have had a good gain. Not once did he break it. He also seemed to be ankle tackled more than I like.

If Hollings is healthy I think we ought to put him in and see what he can do. We already know the limits of Davis and Wells, but we need to determine if we need to draft another back next year.

RTP2110
11-22-2004, 08:26 AM
Didn't Davis gain a signifigant amount of weight in this past offseason? Maybe it's slowing him down this year.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 09:52 AM
i'm sorry but yall can complain and get whatever running back yall want but he wont be able to do anything behind this o-line and than the next year you'd call for another RB and deja vu. Maybe we can consider the line the problem,,,sacks, run blocking, heck J.J moses couldnt run through the holes the o-line opens !

aj.
11-22-2004, 10:11 PM
Watching Derrick Blaylock tonight sure does remind me of DD. Of course it is against NE. But the Chiefs OL is pretty good and Blaylock is going nowhere.

utahmark
11-22-2004, 10:28 PM
i think he is starting to run better. seems like those fumbles early in the year got to him. maybe he has been thinking about not fumbling to much. the main problem is the oline. the knocks on davis is his speed and durability not his ability at finding the hole. finding an opening is what a "third down back" should be good at. so if he cant find an opening im pretty sure what ever guy we pick up or draft will have a hard time as well.

i may be wrong and maybe he is not good enough to be our feature back. but i think the smart thing to do is fix the oline first. then if he still isnt doing it get a new rb. rather than wasting a pick a running back and then realizing that davis wasnt the problem. when we could use that pick on an olineman that we know we need.

Youngstown Colt
11-22-2004, 10:31 PM
this is what ive seen as a colt fan who would be a texans fan if they werent in my division:
Domanick davis had a good year last year, but i always thought a lot of his yards came because opposing teams feared David Carrs arm, and protected the deep ball. hes got the tools to be pretty good, but ive kinda thought jonathan wells could do most of the same things

jr0ck
11-23-2004, 12:47 PM
rather than wasting a pick a running back and then realizing that davis wasnt the problem. when we could use that pick on an olineman that we know we need.

you gotta a friend in me, my setiments exactly

wags
11-28-2004, 04:15 PM
Season long runs of 15, 27, and 41 yards today. 16 carries for 129 yards.

For the season 189 carries for 652 yards. 3.45 yards per carry. 8 TD's.

Just thought I would update the numbers.

Vinny
11-28-2004, 04:17 PM
Thank goodness. At least he had a few runs over 12 yards before week 13.

TexansTrueFan
11-28-2004, 04:20 PM
well i dont think a 1000 yards is out of the question for him this season. And i hope you all see how dangerious he can be with help from the o-line !

wags
11-28-2004, 04:45 PM
Thank goodness. At least he had a few runs over 12 yards before week 13.

For a fourth round pick who is in his second year, I think he is OK. Hopefully our running game picks up from here.

nunusguy
11-28-2004, 05:05 PM
Don't want to take anything away from DD, but yea, there was something funny about that long run at the end of the game. The announcer said the
Titans let him do it and that sounded far fetched, but maybe that's what
really happened. Anyway, DD had a good day but don't think he's our long-term, full time back. He's a tough little runner with good hands but I
don't think he's got the quickness or explosiveness we need to have in our
featured RB.

Supertex
11-28-2004, 05:24 PM
Until todays performance I was dissapointed in Dom. Now he showed he can do it, he knows he can do it, and now hopefully he will do it. Hes not a great runningback but he is definetly a good one. I agree with the others , its the line. If you notice david carr never has time to stay in the pocket. The pass rush dynamites in and he has to throw it quick causing us to miss 3rd down conversions. The line however did do better late in the game but we need consistancy.

infantrycak
11-29-2004, 10:11 AM
IF, big IF, the OL will give him a chance, let's see what the confidence from this game does for DD in the next few games. DD's psyche took a huge hit in the 1st two games (silly that you have to worry about NFL guys psyche but it does make a difference)--maybe we will start to see the DD that came in and shocked everyone with just six runs against Miami.

shinerbock_girl
11-29-2004, 10:19 AM
Well sometimes we all just need alittle confidence builder....This game with DD playing well may be just what he needed....Lets hope its not short lived....

TheOgre
11-29-2004, 10:56 AM
Well DD just needs about 70 YPG over the last 5 games to get to 1000 yards. IF he stays healthy, I think he can get it.

Vinny
11-29-2004, 02:35 PM
1000 yards isn't impressive in a 16 game schedule. Thats not even 60 yards a game.

TexansTrueFan
11-29-2004, 02:59 PM
well vinny i think Davis is lucky to have that considering the recent play of the O-line,,,now if he was running behind denvers o-line i would say he'd have about 1200-1500 yrds !

wags
11-29-2004, 03:12 PM
1000 yards isn't impressive in a 16 game schedule. Thats not even 60 yards a game.

Vinny please. We all know that 16 x 60 = 960. To be a 1000 yard rusher you have to bust out for 62.5 yards a game. That is so much harder to do than 60 yards a game. The 62.5 barrrier is one of the biggest numbers in all of sports. :bowdown:

:jk:

Vinny
11-29-2004, 03:14 PM
ok, so I use fuzzy math.

TheOgre
11-29-2004, 03:17 PM
1000 yards isn't impressive in a 16 game schedule. Thats not even 60 yards a game.
1000/16 = 62.5 YPG :hmmm:

1000 yards was the standard for a 12 game schedule. For some reason that has stuck around decades later. For a 16 game schedule, the equivalent would be 1333 yards. They should set the new standard at 1300.

*edit* looks like I waited to long to post my reply

El Tejano
11-29-2004, 03:58 PM
Well there is nothing we can do about replacing him now so we need to give him our support since none of these stats matter during this time of the season. Ws are the only thing that counts. And since of our 5 wins came without those outstanding stats, we may be able to win some more.

Fiddy
11-29-2004, 04:06 PM
And lets not forget that the Titans gave up 151 yards rushing to the Jags last week and 101 to the Bears (w/o Thomas Jones)

wags
11-29-2004, 04:14 PM
And lets not forget that the Titans gave up 151 yards rushing to the Jags last week and 101 to the Bears (w/o Thomas Jones)

So true. They gave up those yards to a high first rounder with 7 years league experience(Taylor) and a high second rounder with four years experience(Thomas). I think our little fourth round pick who has two years experience deserves very little credit.

Fiddy
11-29-2004, 04:17 PM
So true. They gave up those yards to a high first rounder with 7 years league experience(Taylor) and a high second rounder with four years experience(Thomas). I think our little fourth round pick who has two years experience deserves very little credit.I am just saying that the Titans have been run on lately. I am not trying to take away credit from Davis, he finally had a good game...but a featured back is a featured back...

TexansTrueFan
11-29-2004, 04:50 PM
ok FORGET it yall are right Davis sucks,,,,he was a one hit wonder, i say we just cut him so we can always wonder what if,,,,like what if it was just the O-Line, cause they sure cant protect carr very well either,,,so does that mean that carr is no good either ?

Fiddy
11-29-2004, 08:22 PM
. . .like what if it was just the O-Line, cause they sure cant protect carr very well either,,,so does that mean that carr is no good either ?Without good protection, Carr is completing 62% of his passes has a career high 12 TDs with only 9 INTs and is 10th in the league in passing yards, so he is doing pretty good...

Hervoyel
11-29-2004, 08:32 PM
So maybe 1,000 yards is no big deal in todays NFL (and I happen to agree with that) and maybe a 1,000 yards is about 1,000 yards shy of where Davis wanted to be when the season ends. If he gets it then combined with last years 1,000 I think he's about 1,500 yards ahead of where the Texans expected him to be when they drafted him in the 4th round to compete for return duties and play some 3rd down back.

I'll take it for now certainly. If the line improves and he's sitting around 1,500 yards next season then I'll be a very happy fan indeed. If they improve and he's still doing a grand a year then there's always the draft and free agency.

TexansTrueFan
11-29-2004, 08:58 PM
Without good protection, Carr is completing 62% of his passes has a career high 12 TDs with only 9 INTs and is 10th in the league in passing yards, so he is doing pretty good...


yes well carr has more options can run, than pass, Davis can ONLY hope his o-line blocks for him, cause if not theres not much he can do like carr can. We are lucky carr is so mobile or else he wouldnt be doing NEAR as good as he is ! I blame D.D bad year soley on the o-line, just my opinion though !

Wolf
11-29-2004, 11:43 PM
Davis had a good game, I am glad to see that. I am not sold that he is the franchise back.. Give me a few games and let me see him make guys miss. I am not bashing Davis, it is just think about the RB's in the league and compare him with them.Davis isn't the worst RB,but is he in the top 16?

BornOrange
11-30-2004, 01:07 AM
On his runs of 27 and 41 yards, Davis had huge holes that most of us could have run through for close to the same yardage. On the run of 27 yards, he was tackled by the first guy to touch him. On the TD run for 41 yards, he was never touched.

Much of DD's problems this year have been that he can't break tackles. Good running backs are able to run thru or by the first tackler, or at least when they get tackled by that first man it is only after they get an extra couple of yards. This year DD needs an open hole to get 4 yards.

Remember in the Green Bay game when DD got through the hole and was one-on-one with LB Nai Diggs? Diggs was able to wrap up DD and stand him up. Good (not great, just good) RB's are able to at least keep their legs going and dive forward after contact.

fresno8
11-30-2004, 01:44 AM
Last year I had hoped Willis McGahee could fall into our hands in the 2nd round, wouldn't that have been nice. Davis is a good receiver out of the back field, but isn't a great back, he's just average. I've never been very impressed with him he gets big gains only when the line opens a gaping hole. I agree we definately need a work horse some one with speed, power or both. I wish Lindell White or Reggie Bush were coming out this year we could use either one. Davis will get us to .500, but we need a premeir back to get us to the playoffs and beyond. The line will continue to gel over the course of this year and into next year, but we could use some help on the left side of the line. Go Texans

Vinny
11-30-2004, 06:08 PM
Speaking of McGahee...

The Bills were 0-4 before he was starting and have gone 5-2 since he has been starting. Early in the year everyone was moaning how bad the Bills line was. Since McGahee stepped up they are no longer blaming their line for all their problems. A great back can make your line's job much easier.

wags
11-30-2004, 06:19 PM
Speaking of McGahee...

The Bills were 0-4 before he was starting and have gone 5-2 since he has been starting. Early in the year everyone was moaning how bad the Bills line was. Since McGahee stepped up they are no longer blaming their line for all their problems. A great back can make your line's job much easier.

McGahee is not that much better than Travis Henry, if any. Travis Henry was great the last two years, rushing for 1450 and 1350, and the O-line still sucked. Bledsoe is actually scrambling a little and avoiding sacks, rather than just curling up into a fetal position.

Vinny
11-30-2004, 06:24 PM
Could he have made the same impact early in the season? There was the 13-10 loss to Oakland in which Henry was stopped near the goal line. Henry fell down on a critical third-down play Oct. 3 against New England with the Bills trying to tie the game. Drew Bledsoe fumbled on an attempted bootleg on the next play, and Richard Seymour ran it back for a touchdown in the Pats' 31-17 win.

So maybe.

The Bills had gone nine games without a rushing touchdown until McGahee scored his first career TD against Arizona. His seven TDs have come in his last five games. He has 726 yards rushing, putting him on pace for 1,056 yards. Factor his six starts over a 16-game season, and McGahee would be on pace for 1,594 yards rushing. The Bills have not had a 1,500-yard rusher since O.J. Simpson ran for 1,503 yards in 1976.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20041130/1051393.asp

wags
11-30-2004, 06:36 PM
Hypotheticals. Gotta love em.

Has McGahee run for those 1594 yards? Nope. Has Travis Henry run for 1350 and 1450 his last two seasons. Yep. McGahee still has a little proving to do before he is deemed great.

Vinny
11-30-2004, 06:38 PM
Hypotheticals. Gotta love em.

Has McGahee run for those 1594 yards? Nope. Has Travis Henry run for 1350 and 1450 his last two seasons. Yep. McGahee still has a little proving to do before he is deemed great.
There is nothing hypothetical about the Bills going nine consecutive games without a rushing touchdown then McGahee comes on with seven TD's in his last five games.

aj.
11-30-2004, 06:39 PM
1000 yards was the standard for a 12 game scheduleEven though 1000 yards meant a lot more during the years of the 12 game schedule, 1000 rushing yards remained a benchmark well into the era of the 14 game schedule from 1960-77 (when I started watching football). If you go back and look at the books you will find that there were very few 1,000 yard rushers in the AFL/NFL (not more than 2-3 in the NFL and fewer in the AFL) until 1972 when there were at least 9 guys who did it. But then in '73 and '74 there were only 5. Then things got cooking again in the late 70's with more and more 1000 yard rushers. When they went to 16 game schedule in '78 then 1000 yards became less impressive even though it remains some kind of legacy measure of goodness.

wags
11-30-2004, 06:43 PM
There is nothing hypothetical about the Bills going nine consecutive games without a rushing touchdown then McGahee comes on with seven TD's in his last five games.

True. However you can't assume without proof that he will rush for 1594 yards or that he would have won the Oakland and New England game. As the article implies.

Vinny
11-30-2004, 06:46 PM
I'm not assuming anything. I just know that with the same line the Bills are getting much more production from their running game. TD's out of the Running game have been non-existant before McGahee. A larger more physical McGahee wears down a defense and gets in the end zone more than the smallish Henry did with the same line.

Hervoyel
11-30-2004, 07:22 PM
On his runs of 27 and 41 yards, Davis had huge holes that most of us could have run through for close to the same yardage. On the run of 27 yards, he was tackled by the first guy to touch him. On the TD run for 41 yards, he was never touched.

Much of DD's problems this year have been that he can't break tackles. Good running backs are able to run thru or by the first tackler, or at least when they get tackled by that first man it is only after they get an extra couple of yards. This year DD needs an open hole to get 4 yards.

Remember in the Green Bay game when DD got through the hole and was one-on-one with LB Nai Diggs? Diggs was able to wrap up DD and stand him up. Good (not great, just good) RB's are able to at least keep their legs going and dive forward after contact.

You know what though? Last season Davis did break tackles. He broke tackles all the time. Since the horrible start he had this season with the fumble problems he hasn't been the same back even when he had holes to run through. He hasn't been able to twist away from anyone. He hasn't run over anyone and yes, last year he ran over some people. He shook people off of him all the time last year.

That particular aspect of his game was not in my mind a question at all. He could get extra yards after contact. The downside to his game was always the lack of speed when he did get away from people. He could get good yardage on a regular basis before his fumbles got inside his head and changed his style. It just remains to be seen whether he's going to get that back. A few good games could turn him back around I think. He just needs to start going for it again while still being aware of keeping the ball in his hands and off the ground. Focusing on nothing but avoiding the fumble apparently leads to 3 yards a carry and an unwillingness to break a tackle.

aj.
11-30-2004, 07:41 PM
He's had over 175 touches now without a fumble. Maybe he'll get over it. I'd like to see the DD that caught my attention in the Indy game last year - at Indy - I recall a run around right end near the goal line that made me go "whoa" this dude can bring it.

TexanExile
11-30-2004, 08:19 PM
I'm confused. Some are saying DD's to blame for his fall-off in production this year. Others blame the O-line. I think the truth's somewhere in the middle, and I really do think the 4 fumbles at the start of the season messed him up for a while.

Fact is, he's not committing nearly as many turnovers as our star QB, who's getting hyped for progress and growth. And what's changed more since last season--Davis, or the offensive line? The same line protecting our star QB, right?