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View Full Version : coaches loose another game for us


geka
11-21-2004, 11:56 PM
How these guys will still have a job in the morning blows my mind

Fiddy
11-21-2004, 11:57 PM
4 of those runs were audibles by Carr, that is not on the coaches...

Reddevil63
11-21-2004, 11:58 PM
Arent audibles (regardless of how bad they are) to get out of BAD plays???

And those audibles in the 4th quarter still dont explain what like 60 yards of offense in the 2nd half? Total meltdown and playing not to lose the lead yet again. We have some of the DUMBest coaches when it comes to football. And Im not one of those bandwagon FIRE HIM guys, I know a bad half of football when I see it.

Blake
11-21-2004, 11:59 PM
Its execution. I dont care if you call an up the gut play, if you execute properly, you can get a ton of yards.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 12:00 AM
yeah well the coaches give carr the audible play options, ok its not like he's manning and can just pick whatever play he wants, that audible was decided by the coach incase carr didnt like what he saw ! Our coaches suck, carr only threw the ball like 10 times in the second half !

TexanExile
11-22-2004, 12:00 AM
The absolute worst rushing plays were AUDIBLES. The coaches are not at fault for that. Carr needs to show some guts and stick to the play, and/or Palmer needs to add some options that aren't 1-yard loss handoffs.

geka
11-22-2004, 12:00 AM
4 of those runs were audibles by Carr, that is not on the coaches...

who sets up the audibles that Carr has to call?

thats right its the coaches fire them all

D-ReK
11-22-2004, 12:01 AM
My guess is Carr audibled into runs because he saw that all of his receivers would be well covered, so he switched it to a run just so we get positive yardage...That is purely speculation, though...Either way, we were outcoached and when that happens, it's time for a change...

geka
11-22-2004, 12:02 AM
Anyways the fact that DD is still playing by its self means coaches heads need to roll

phan1
11-22-2004, 12:08 AM
...sigh... I'm just still in shock.....

One thing is for sure, we are a team based on the perofrmance of Carr. We don't have a 3&out defense. Our offense has to at least get good yards and win the battle of field position. If you look at some of our wins, we constantly pinned the opponent back on their side of the field and forced them to go the whole way of the field to score. We really fizzled out at the end offensively. Two straight 3&outs aren't going to win many games. Right now, Carr literally has to go out and win games for us, and that's a big problem. Someone needs to help him out here!

And yeah... Our running game sucks.

DomDavis
11-22-2004, 12:10 AM
Its execution. I dont care if you call an up the gut play, if you execute properly, you can get a ton of yards.

So why are coaches ever fired then?

Yes, it would be great if we could execute the plays. The problem is that our current personnel can't do that. We are simply not that good at run blocking and we do not have one starting quality running back on this roster right now. It is up to the coaches to recognize this, however, and play to the offense's strength (like in the Minnesota game) - throwing the football. And yes, Carr did make some horrible audibles, but Capers should be screaming at him on the bench after he does it.

In an ideal world, you'd have a 50/50 run/pass ratio to keep teams off balance. The reality, however, is that this team can't be effective doing that. The great coaches know how to shift the gameplan to suit the strengths of their offense, even if it makes things a little unorthodox. Unfortunately, this staff has shown no ability to tailor a gameplan to our personnel. It's all very generic. It's certainly not the worst coaching job of the league, but there have been enough mistakes this year to ponder making a couple of changes, particularly on offense.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 12:10 AM
and oh lord dont try to take johnnson long even ONCE, instead run it up the gut the whole second half with an ineffective running game !

JDizzle
11-22-2004, 12:18 AM
What really got me is the route AJ was running on a critical 3rd and 5 play late in the game. Why in the world would you run your star receiver on a route 3 yards shy of a first down in that situation? As for the playcalling, I don't know enough about it to comment on it, but it looks to me like defenses are having a real easy time figuring us out lately. Two questions came to mind after the game : Why isn't Derrick Armstrong starting? When will Tony Hollings start? Armstrong has made a solid case for himself as a #3 guy, and I think it's time Hollings start de-greening himself as a running back.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 12:19 AM
hollings would of been in there but it seemes he is less durible than davis is , he's always hurt !

Hervoyel
11-22-2004, 12:21 AM
4 of those runs were audibles by Carr, that is not on the coaches...

Aren't the audibles given to Carr by the coaches? Aren't they a subset of plays that he is allowed to audible to? And finally have the Houston Texans ever in their short history audibled to anything other than a vanilla run to the left or (mixing things up to keep the defense honest) the right?

I'm trying very hard to recall a single time I've seen the Texans audible to a pass. Just because I can't remember it doesn't mean it doesn't happen of course but the fact that I can't remember it tells me that it doesn't happen often enough. I've watched all three seasons more times than I can count and audibles to a pass just don't come to me. If I know that an audible has a 99% chance of being a run between the tackles you can bet that defensive coordinators around the league have worked that out as well.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 12:23 AM
Aren't the audibles given to Carr by the coaches? Aren't they a subset of plays that he is allowed to audible to? And finally have the Houston Texans ever in their short history audibled to anything other than a vanilla run to the left or (mixing things up to keep the defense honest) the right?

I'm trying very hard to recall a single time I've seen the Texans audible to a pass. Just because I can't remember it doesn't mean it doesn't happen of course but the fact that I can't remember it tells me that it doesn't happen often enough. I've watched all three seasons more times than I can count and audibles to a pass just don't come to me. If I know that an audible has a 99% chance of being a run between the tackles you can bet that defensive coordinators around the league have worked that out as well.



thank you thats what i've been trying to tell people,,,the coaches give carr options, unlike manning where he can change it into a hail marry if he wants,,,the runs carr audibled into were chosen by the coaches ! So coaches fault again !

Rightnow
11-22-2004, 12:31 AM
I have been quiet about the coaches this year, but clearly there is a problem. FOUR end-arounds! FOUR! What kind of high school play calling is this!

If we don't win six games, this whole organization needs a look. We HAVE to get better this year or heads should roll.

Ibar_Harry
11-22-2004, 03:44 AM
Vinny, very simply no comment. They have all said it better than me!!!! Good Night!

Vinny
11-22-2004, 03:46 AM
Why bring me into this? You guys can point fingers till you are blue in the face if you want. Just leave me out of it.

Ibar_Harry
11-22-2004, 03:56 AM
Actually, I'm amazed by your silence. I think this was a hard game for everyone to take. I think this was a back breaker and I think the rest of the season will be down hill. A lot of people gave their best, particularly on defense, but it simply wasn't enough. I think the coaching staff will find it hard to motivate this team from this point on. Farve had a lot of time and Carr did not. Its the same old story. If this is the best the O-line can do, then I don't know what we can do next year. I don't think you can get a new O-line in one year and we will only have the normal amount of draft picks next year. I think we have a real problem trying to change personnel. I really would like to hear your thoughts, because either our personnel are really bad or the coaches are. May be its somewhere in between. But something has to change to make this a better ball club.

Tedc
11-22-2004, 07:48 AM
IF the OC is calling a bad game and as head coach you don't correct it, it is the head coach's head that needs to fall.

Simply put, the first half of the game was diected by Palmer's game plan and the second half was Capers.

Any kind of manager worth his salt will correct a problem swiftly and justly unless he doesn't care for his job.

Are you listening Charlie? Or does the problem start with you?

aj.
11-22-2004, 08:16 AM
There may be another (dozen) threads on this and you guys can bittch about play calling all you want but the offensive woes on this team start with the offensive line. They are not beating anyone but themselves. They are not working as a unit. They are not aggressive. They are uncomfortable and ineffective in this system. Part of it is personnel and part of it is the new system. They don't get it.

nunusguy
11-22-2004, 08:40 AM
"Favre is a guy you can never have enough points when you play against him," Texans coach Dom Capers said. "You just can't keep giving him opportunities because he's going to make some of those plays. He's one of the greatest who has ever played the position. You have to give him credit."
This quote is out of this mornings Chronicle: so it begs the question coach -
why did you sit on your lead beginning early in the second half by repeatedly
running the ball. In case you forgot, you were playing Bret Farve and that's not Adrian Peterson you've got @ RB.

Meloy
11-22-2004, 09:25 AM
I was going to start a thread when I got to work this morning but this one is just fine. I must own up to the fact of defending Capers & Palmer the first half of season. My observations:

1. One touchdown in a game is not a good offense with the caliber of receivers and tight ends Texans have.
2. Green Bay used their full back as a runner successfully.
3. The Pack's Defensive coordinator "out thunk" Palmer by suckering us in to several end arounds that went no where.
4. No matter what happened in 2003, this year we do not have a running back. Period.
Davis should be used to fake to and for occasional passes out of the backfield.
5. It is difficult for a fan to sit and watch their team "play to not lose" when the team wins. When the result is a loss, this fan goes bananas!
6. Same offensive line only allegedly better. It's the scheme, stupid! It may be great elsewhere but our guys just don't seem to get it. So change. And it ain't because Wade missed games. Weigert and Pitts seem to be lost.

TexansTrueFan
11-22-2004, 10:29 AM
"Favre is a guy you can never have enough points when you play against him," Texans coach Dom Capers said. "You just can't keep giving him opportunities because he's going to make some of those plays. He's one of the greatest who has ever played the position. You have to give him credit."
This quote is out of this mornings Chronicle: so it begs the question coach -
why did you sit on your lead beginning early in the second half by repeatedly
running the ball. In case you forgot, you were playing Bret Farve and that's not Adrian Peterson you've got @ RB.


maybe capers is truly stupid !! I mean cant he understand what he said ??? Well i sure am glad we tried to run the score up on them hahaha , i dont think capers even knows what he's saying when he speaks, he needs to show a lil passion instead of looking like a emotionless *****, Carr neads to quit trying to be Mr. America on national TV, Palmer needs to turn Madden 2005 off easy and use plays that will work, And US fans need to quit making excuses for them they are NOT expansion anymore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vinny
11-22-2004, 11:58 AM
Capers is very respectful and decent man. He is also very bright. It's a shame we have to try to make him look like he is a fool because we get all upset we didn't win a football game. Can't we vent without being disrespectful?

Wolf
11-22-2004, 12:25 PM
maybe capers is truly stupid !! I mean cant he understand what he said ??? Well i sure am glad we tried to run the score up on them hahaha , i dont think capers even knows what he's saying when he speaks, he needs to show a lil passion instead of looking like a emotionless *****, Carr neads to quit trying to be Mr. America on national TV, Palmer needs to turn Madden 2005 off easy and use plays that will work, And US fans need to quit making excuses for them they are NOT expansion anymore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NEWSFLASH!!!!
We aren't the 1st team that Favre has comeback on. There is a reason he is going into the Hall of Fame :shocked

jnhcarrfans
11-22-2004, 12:28 PM
Capers is very respectful and decent man. He is also very bright. It's a shame we have to try to make him look like he is a fool because we get all upset we didn't win a football game. Can't we vent without being disrespectful?

Doesn't look like it. We are way to quick to want to fire people. I think he is doing a good job considering what he's working with. It takes time to build a good or great football team. I feel we are going to put a good playoff team together as long as we stay the course we are on. Hey we're gonna lose some games, but we have shown alot of improvements this year.Right?? :goodbad:

RC4TEXANS
11-22-2004, 12:47 PM
maybe capers is truly stupid !! I mean cant he understand what he said ??? Well i sure am glad we tried to run the score up on them hahaha , i dont think capers even knows what he's saying when he speaks, he needs to show a lil passion instead of looking like a emotionless *****, Carr neads to quit trying to be Mr. America on national TV, Palmer needs to turn Madden 2005 off easy and use plays that will work, And US fans need to quit making excuses for them they are NOT expansion anymore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
send in your resume or let him do his job to the best of his ability / be a fan have a good time watching the game or change the chanel .

El Tejano
11-22-2004, 12:56 PM
I think it is safe to say the coaches got out coached but to say they lost the game is not a totally correct statement. This game was lost because of a lack of running game. Once the defense made Davis cut back inside, we had no running game and were unable to make GB pay for the turnovers. We tend to become one dimensional in the second half.

Double Barrel
11-22-2004, 01:32 PM
Capers is very respectful and decent man. He is also very bright. It's a shame we have to try to make him look like he is a fool because we get all upset we didn't win a football game. Can't we vent without being disrespectful?

Excellent point.

jeesh, people, do you ever hear anything else over your own moaning and groaning?!

Charlie Casserly has ALWAYS said this is a FIVE YEAR PLAN!!!

Do you understand that we are only in year THREE of this FIVE year plan??

I swear, everytime I hear "fire Capers or Casserly" my head wants to explode.

FACT: our team simply does not have the personel to bring a complex system to the table.

WHY? Because we've only been around three freaking years!!

Patience, man, patience. I hate losing as much as the rest of you, but you are losing sight of the BIG PICTURE.

Of course, in light of the emotion on display, my pov is merely :listening

Lucky
11-22-2004, 01:44 PM
Charlie Casserly has ALWAYS said this is a FIVE YEAR PLAN!!!
Actually, Casserly said on his radio show, a week or 2 ago, that he has never mentioned a 5 year plan. They're trying to win now. I'm not sure where the 5 year plan stuff came up. Maybe it's the length of Capers & Casserly's contract?

Anyway, you're right in that we have no alternative but to be patient. Else stop buying tickets & watching the games. We'll have these coaches & most of these players next year. These are the guys who have to get it done.

Ty Webb
11-22-2004, 02:35 PM
It is no secret! When Carr goes to an audible, it is a running play up the middle or over the guards. If I can figure this out, then certainly an experienced defensive coordinator can. I want the Texans to do well, but 58 yards of total offense in the second half won't cut it with a 13-3 lead.

Double Barrel
11-22-2004, 03:06 PM
Actually, Casserly said on his radio show, a week or 2 ago, that he has never mentioned a 5 year plan. They're trying to win now. I'm not sure where the 5 year plan stuff came up. Maybe it's the length of Capers & Casserly's contract?

Interesting...I heard Casserly just last week on the radio taking calls and he said "4-5 year building plan"...and several of my buddies have heard the same thing from him and Capers the past couple of years, too.

In fairness, McNair, Capers and general manager Charley Casserly always have said they were targeting the fourth year for the team to be a playoff contender. Nevertheless, competitive people want to win every time out, and everyone associated with the Texans knows the fans feel the same way.

Source: Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/2827756

idonno:

nunusguy
11-22-2004, 05:30 PM
Losing last night was especially frustrating for many fans because it was a
game we were on track to win with a 13-3 lead in the second half of a home game on national TV and it was a chance for redemption for the horrible efforts the 2 previous weeks against Denver & Indy. We would be back to .500 and have a realistic shot at getting back in the playoff-wildcard hunt.
But we managed to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" as the saying goes - we definitely lost it more than GB won it.

Number19
11-22-2004, 09:04 PM
I just finished looking at the second half, again; and offensively we just stunk - with blame enough to go around. There was some poor play calling. There was some dropped passes. Carr was not as sharp with his passes - some were just plain bad. And we had six breakdowns on the OL - one each by Bruener, Wand, Pitts, McKinney, Weigert and Wade.

We had 32 offensive plays the second half - 6 punts; 6 breakdowns by the OL; 6 incomplete passes; 9 rushes for 3 yds or less; and 1 completed pass for only 3 yds , short of a first down. This leaves a total of only 4 positive plays for the entire second half.

Like I said - the entire team stunk!