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View Full Version : Could Sage be auditioning as trade bait the rest of season?


TheRealJoker
12-04-2007, 02:03 PM
Do any of you guys think that if Sage plays very well to close out the season we will receive offers for our backup qb in the offseason for a team in need of a veteran qb that can step in and start right away?

I wouldn't want to trade Sage but if a team offers the right price it would be hard not to. I mean, if he plays well enough over these last 4 games where a team like the Bears offer their 2nd round pick (ala AJ Feely to Dolphins a few years back) then it would be hard not to take that deal even though reliable backup QBs are hard to find and Schaub's durability issues in 06.

nunusguy
12-04-2007, 02:09 PM
Given the problem Schaub has staying on the field because of continually getting hurt, I would imagine the Texans price for Sage is escalating as we
post to this thread.

Double Barrel
12-04-2007, 02:09 PM
I wouldn't trade Sage right now. We need a competent backup QB in 2008, especially in light of injury concerns with Schaub and the fact that we have yet to get consistent pass protection from week to week.

Dallas_Texan
12-04-2007, 02:11 PM
Do any of you guys think that if Sage plays very well to close out the season we will receive offers for our backup qb in the offseason for a team in need of a veteran qb that can step in and start right away?

I wouldn't want to trade Sage but if a team offers the right price it would be hard not to. I mean, if he plays well enough over these last 4 games where a team like the Bears offer their 2nd round pick (ala AJ Feely to Dolphins a few years back) then it would be hard not to take that deal even though reliable backup QBs are hard to find and Schaub's durability issues in 06.

That's why I wouldn't. Schaub seems (I may be wrong, you can't guage a hit from the stands) but he seems to be more fragile than we thought. The last thing we want is to get caught without a backup right now. But if he has a shot to start somewhere, I would love for him to get a shot too. He's earned it. ---Only if we get a second rounder or better though.....otherwise there will be riots!

TheRealJoker
12-04-2007, 02:13 PM
I agree that we shouldn't trade Sage, but everyone has their price and to me Sage's price is a 2nd round pick. That's high for a backup qb imo (yes, I know we traded twice that for Schaub!!!) and I doubt most teams would go for it (unless Sage plays lights out the rest of the season) but its high because I think that's how valuable he is to this football team.

TheRealJoker
12-04-2007, 02:17 PM
Who do you guys see as possibilities to make this trade? IMO:

Bears, Jets, Falcons, 49ers, Bills, Ravens, Chiefs, and Panthers are all gonna be in the market for a QB next season and are therefore all in the running for our backup QB who is gonna light up the league these last 4 games!!!

Andrew6
12-04-2007, 02:18 PM
as many holes as we need to fill right now I wouldn't say trading Sage for a few draft picks wouldn't be a bad idea. Kubiak beleives in a building a team through the draft and what better way than to get more draft picks. This coming draft should have alot of good prospects. If houston can pick up someones #1 & #2 picks in next draft or even 2 #2's I'd say it'd be worth it. They can even pick up a QB in the draft to train up.

TheRealJoker
12-04-2007, 02:21 PM
There's lots of talent to be had in the 2nd round of an NFL draft. Sure you can get your busts like any other but i'd gladly risk getting a Tony Hollings or Jabar Gaffney to get the next DeMeco Ryans or Marcus Mcneil (pro bowl LT Chargers 2nd round same draft).

Texanfan4ever
12-04-2007, 02:29 PM
That's why I wouldn't. Schaub seems (I may be wrong, you can't guage a hit from the stands) but he seems to be more fragile than we thought. The last thing we want is to get caught without a backup right now. But if he has a shot to start somewhere, I would love for him to get a shot too. He's earned it. ---Only if we get a second rounder or better though.....otherwise there will be riots!

FIrst off, Matt's two injuries were late helmet hits, one from Haynesworth in the last Titan's game, and the other really late hit from that other *****, who I can't think of his name, who should be suspended. That doesn't make him fragile. AND it wasn't the lines fault.

Now SUnday, Odom should have never been able to get to Matt. That was a missed block. Still doesn't make him fragile.

As far as Sage, that would be a big loss if he left.

hollywood_texan
12-04-2007, 02:30 PM
There's lots of talent to be had in the 2nd round of an NFL draft. Sure you can get your busts like any other but i'd gladly risk getting a Tony Hollings or Jabar Gaffney to get the next DeMeco Ryans or Marcus Mcneil (pro bowl LT Chargers 2nd round same draft).

Jabar Gaffney is not a bust.

He is doing very well with the Patriots. He caught the game winning TD last night!

kastofsna
12-04-2007, 02:33 PM
Gaffney was a bust with Houston.

YellerLotYeller
12-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Jabar Gaffney is not a bust.

He is doing very well with the Patriots. He caught the game winning TD last night!


Thanks for reminding us.....:gun:

TheRealJoker
12-04-2007, 02:36 PM
Gaffney was a bust with Houston.

Which is why he was included in my example of 2nd round busts we've had...although admittedly there are many choices other than Gaffney :(

powerfuldragon
12-04-2007, 02:37 PM
hope not. i like having sage as a #2

TheRealJoker
12-04-2007, 02:40 PM
hope not. i like having sage as a #2

As does everyone else, but i'd enjoy having another DeMeco or a pro bowl LT more.

The1ApplePie
12-04-2007, 02:43 PM
See what kind of numbers he can put up. If he can stay healthy and put up numbers like Schaub, then trading him would be stupid.

Give him a chance to beat out Fragile Matty in the offseason, and go from there.

powerfuldragon
12-04-2007, 02:43 PM
As does everyone else, but i'd enjoy having another DeMeco or a pro bowl LT more.
you saying mareyo is going to hawaii?

Errant Hothy
12-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Given the problem Schaub has staying on the field because of continually getting hurt, I would imagine the Texans price for Sage is escalating as we
post to this thread.

I think upgrading along the o-line would help this tremendously, but I know that is a minority viewpoint in Houston.

austintexanite
12-04-2007, 02:52 PM
I don't think we should trade Sage unless a team is offering a 2nd rounder. However, I severly doubt that.

Imatexanfan
12-04-2007, 02:56 PM
Man I hope we keep 'em he's the best back up I've seen ever.

They trade 'em and thats it, McNair its on.:bat:

Twitch-Houston
12-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Gaffney was a bust with Houston.

Gaffney as Texan has David Carr at QB

Gaffney as Patriot has Tom Brady at QB

what was that commercial that said...."you make the call"?

Errant Hothy
12-04-2007, 02:58 PM
Gaffney as Texan has David Carr at QB

Gaffney as Patriot has Tom Brady at QB

What are you trying to say? :devilpig:

Post #4444 for me.

hollywood_texan
12-04-2007, 02:59 PM
Gaffney was a bust with Houston.

Your point is meaningless.

Gaffney has proved he can play in the league.

Which proves it wasn't Gaffney that was the issue but the Texans organization it's self. The guy has made some clutch catches for the Patriots (AFC Championship game and last night).

The Eagles even cut Gaffney and the Patriots picked him up several weeks later after he cleared waivers.

Point is, that is how you build a team. Through the draft and plugging in guys from the scrap heap.

The Texans are going to have a hard time building a core putting all their chips down in trades and the free agency market.

I digress, Gaffney is not a bust...

hollywood_texan
12-04-2007, 03:06 PM
The Texans probably should consider trading Rosenfels for another draft pick.

They need as many draft picks as possible to build a solid team.

I just don't see the point in keeping two QBs while your still hovering around 5 or 7 wins for the year every year when you can get decent value and plug glaring holes in the personnel roster.

The best way to improve the offensive line for the long-term is through the draft.

Bottom line, having two QBs is an unneeded luxury at this time with the current roster. It's overkill that isn't going to improve the overall record.

Double Barrel
12-04-2007, 03:43 PM
Jabar Gaffney is not a bust.

He is doing very well with the Patriots. He caught the game winning TD last night!

yep. And he was catching Tom Brady passes in the playoffs last year, too.

Gaffney was a bust with Houston.

The ball thrower had nothing to do with it, right? :ok:

ArlingtonTexan
12-04-2007, 04:46 PM
Unless somebody is going to overpay, absolutely no reason to consider trading Rosenfels. Essentially, the Texans would create a significant hole, back-up QB, to maybe filling some other need. Classic robbing Peter to pay Paul or borrowing your way out of debt, etc.

eric138
12-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Who do you guys see as possibilities to make this trade? IMO:

Bears, Jets, Falcons, 49ers, Bills, Ravens, Chiefs, and Panthers are all gonna be in the market for a QB next season and are therefore all in the running for our backup QB who is gonna light up the league these last 4 games!!!

Why would these guys give up any draft picks when they can get the number 1 draft pick David Carr for nothing.. :)

OzzO
12-04-2007, 05:24 PM
Do any of you guys think that if Sage plays very well to close out the season we will receive offers for our backup qb in the offseason for a team in need of a veteran qb that can step in and start right away?....

I don't think we'll be shopping him, but if it's a sellers market - who knows. As mentioned above, possibly bring in a youngin' that slipped in the draft. I think we have the competent FO to find the gems now - at least in comparison to CC's factory.

adam
12-04-2007, 06:25 PM
Considering that, over the course of this season, Sage has come in and competently played football...almost as frequently as Schaub had, I would say he has value. That said, I have been watching Shane Boyd and he does have potential. If he could come in a play as well as Sage, I would be open to snagging a draft pick or two for Sage. There are a lot of teams that could use a QB, namely Atlanta.

ArlingtonTexan
12-04-2007, 06:42 PM
Considering that, over the course of this season, Sage has come in and competently played football...almost as frequently as Schaub had, I would say he has value. That said, I have been watching Shane Boyd and he does have potential. If he could come in a play as well as Sage, I would be open to snagging a draft pick or two for Sage. There are a lot of teams that could use a QB, namely Atlanta.

Where have you been watching Boyd?

dtran04
12-04-2007, 06:47 PM
I hope they can keep Boyd in the system for awhile. It's always nice to have a developmental player waiting in the wings. Who knows, it could be a Romo situation. On that note, I wonder what really happened with Zabransky?

Thorn
12-04-2007, 06:56 PM
Since the only thing that Schaub has proved this season is his potential, and considering the state our offensive line is in, I think getting rid of Sage is about the stupidest idea Iíve ever heard of. Before we go getting rid of Sage, letís make it through a season with a decent O-line, Schaub standing on two feet, and someone besides Dayne running the ball. And yes, Dayne's been doing well, but do you really want this guy as our permanent starter?

Otherwise when Schaub goes out, we have NO chance. At least with Sage we do stand a chance of winning, if for no other reason heís familiar with the players and the system.

Only one reason I would get rid of Sage, and that's (during the draft) to get a draft pick to specifically draft a QB on the spot, which ain't happening since we have a large invenstment in Schaub. For now, I thank the Gods of football we have Sage.

hollywood_texan
12-04-2007, 07:55 PM
Since the only thing that Schaub has proved this season is his potential, and considering the state our offensive line is in, I think getting rid of Sage is about the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard of. Before we go getting rid of Sage, let’s make it through a season with a decent O-line, Schaub standing on two feet, and someone besides Dayne running the ball. And yes, Dayne's been doing well, but do you really want this guy as our permanent starter?

Otherwise when Schaub goes out, we have NO chance. At least with Sage we do stand a chance of winning, if for no other reason he’s familiar with the players and the system.

Only one reason I would get rid of Sage, and that's (during the draft) to get a draft pick to specifically draft a QB on the spot, which ain't happening since we have a large invenstment in Schaub. For now, I thank the Gods of football we have Sage.

I don't think getting good value out of Sage is a such a stupid idea.

There are so many holes on this team and most importantly, the Texans need to build a core of players through the draft.

I don't see how keeping two QBs on the roster like this is going to translate to more than 6 or 7 wins.

The Texans need draft picks, it's that simple.

If the Texans were knocking on the door for a playoff run, I could see holding onto to Sage. A 2nd or 3rd round pick probably would be a slam dunk for me to trade Sage.

So amazing the Texans will drop two 2nd round draft picks and slide two spots in the first round for an unproven QB but would be hesitant to trading a journeyman QB they got for nothing. That just doesn't make sense to me. Being stacked at the QB position considering the state of the roster also doesn't make sense to me either.

Thorn
12-04-2007, 08:36 PM
Being stacked at the QB position considering the state of the roster also doesn't make sense to me either.


Having a good backup QB is gold. But how much trade value is Sage worth? Is he worth a 2nd round pick? Or more? I suppose if we got a 2nd rounder and a 3rd or 4th round pick, yeah. But then what are we going to do for a backup? We'd then have to use a pick on a decent QB prospect, or get a QB in FA. Unless we end up with another good backup PLUS a decent pick, I just don't see it.

And I didn't imply anyone was stupid for saying something different, after all, I've said some pretty stupid things here myself. I just think the idea of giving up a solid backup QB for an unproven draft choice with nothing else gained in the trade doesn't make sense to me.

The1ApplePie
12-04-2007, 08:40 PM
Only problem with trading Sage is we don't want to wind up like Atlanta, starting someone like Harrington, epsecially with Matt's history

adam
12-04-2007, 09:34 PM
Where have you been watching Boyd?

I've seen him play in college, I've seen him practice, and I'm pretty sure I saw him play during the preseason.

b0ng
12-04-2007, 09:59 PM
I don't see how keeping two QBs on the roster like this is going to translate to more than 6 or 7 wins.


Having a backup QB in case your starter goes down is not a "luxury" it's "competent roster management".

If Sage demands starter money one year, then yeah, we should shop him around. He is signed to a 4 year (beginning March '06) 7 million dollar deal, so we won't even have to worry about that for a little while.

Build through the draft yes, trade your veteran backup QB who knows the scheme and the players around him? No no and no. That's just plain silly.

DerekLee1
12-04-2007, 10:10 PM
Gaffney was a bust with Houston.

Gaffney was never a bust. First of all, he was a 2nd round pick. Hard to call anyone not drafted in the first round a "bust". Secondly, he didn't have a real QB throwing the ball to him until he got to New England.

edo783
12-04-2007, 10:22 PM
I think upgrading along the o-line would help this tremendously, but I know that is a minority viewpoint in Houston.

Wooohooo, what do you know......I'm a minority!

hollywood_texan
12-04-2007, 10:30 PM
Having a backup QB in case your starter goes down is not a "luxury" it's "competent roster management".

If Sage demands starter money one year, then yeah, we should shop him around. He is signed to a 4 year (beginning March '06) 7 million dollar deal, so we won't even have to worry about that for a little while.

Build through the draft yes, trade your veteran backup QB who knows the scheme and the players around him? No no and no. That's just plain silly.

It is a luxury considering the state of affiars. Having Sage as the backup doesn't even mean a. 500 record.

The Texans need players! It's that simple. They gave up a lot get Schaub, this is great way to get that ground back. They need it! They have very little invested in Rosenfels.

The idea of a competent backup is important in the NFL, but the Texans are not at that point where it really makes a difference to this team when it comes to wins.

ArlingtonTexan
12-04-2007, 10:48 PM
I've seen him play in college, I've seen him practice, and I'm pretty sure I saw him play during the preseason.

Ok..I thought I missed something.

fikster
12-04-2007, 11:55 PM
Gaffney was never a bust. First of all, he was a 2nd round pick. Hard to call anyone not drafted in the first round a "bust". Secondly, he didn't have a real QB throwing the ball to him until he got to New England.

wow, mcnabb is not a real qb?

Insideop
12-05-2007, 12:16 AM
I've seen him play in college, I've seen him practice, and I'm pretty sure I saw him play during the preseason.

You did see him in preseason if you watched the Arizona game. He was their 3rd or 4th string QB and he played sometime in the 4th quarter. When he was cut by Arizona the Texans picked him up because they remembered him in that game. He stood out as a good developmental QB. :throwball:

Insideop
12-05-2007, 12:31 AM
Unless somebody is going to overpay, absolutely no reason to consider trading Rosenfels. Essentially, the Texans would create a significant hole, back-up QB, to maybe filling some other need. Classic robbing Peter to pay Paul or borrowing your way out of debt, etc.

I have to agree with you on this AT. Unless a team is so desperate and would give us 3 or 4 picks, I wouldn't even think about trading Sage away. Now if Schaub was someone who never got hurt, and we had a 3rd string QB that could step in like Sage, it would be a different story. But at this time, it doesn't make any sense to do this. It would be like taking a step backwards. If we're going to get extra draft picks, it will probably come by trading back during the draft like they did this past draft when they traded back in the 4th and picked up an extra 5th rounder. JMHO!

hollywood_texan
12-05-2007, 01:59 AM
Having a backup QB in case your starter goes down is not a "luxury" it's "competent roster management".


It definitely is a luxury now that I think about it. Why? There are 32 teams, so with backups, there are 64 guys that could play QB in a regular season game in the NFL in a given week.

That is why there is a premium on quality backups.

At some point, backups are going to get to walk due to how free agency work. Which is why Atlanta delt Schaub.

Better to get value before that happens.

I don't know if Rosenfels is in high demand or if he will be at the end of the year.

But, I would rather have a young rookie starting at linebacker, offensive line, or defensive back, than having a player that is going to riding the bench.

Like I said too many holes on this team...

Corrosion
12-05-2007, 06:07 AM
How long is his current contract w/ the Texans ?! When does he become an UFA ?



At this point Im keeping Sage on the roster ..... The O-line still blows and until this team puts some top tier talent in the OL .... Schaub will get some vacation time in early .... I want a back-up QB who can step in and get the job done .

Bad-The-Van-Puke anyone ?! Thought not .

:brickwall:

Memo to Richard Smith : Fix the OL , no more 6th round favors , no more UDFA garbage . Spend some damn money and fix whats been ailing this team from day one .
/blue in the face


Just in case you are dyslexic or retarded whatever was wrong with that !d!07 you replaced as GM ..... LO ehT xiF


:gun:

b0ng
12-05-2007, 10:48 AM
It definitely is a luxury now that I think about it. Why? There are 32 teams, so with backups, there are 64 guys that could play QB in a regular season game in the NFL in a given week.

That is why there is a premium on quality backups.

At some point, backups are going to get to walk due to how free agency work. Which is why Atlanta delt Schaub.

Better to get value before that happens.

I don't know if Rosenfels is in high demand or if he will be at the end of the year.

But, I would rather have a young rookie starting at linebacker, offensive line, or defensive back, than having a player that is going to riding the bench.

Like I said too many holes on this team...

1. Sage is signed to a 4 year deal that began in '06. So he's signed through '9. He's costing the Texans 1.6 mil in cap space. That is not premium money.

2. The reason ATL wanted Schaub is because he knew that teams would pay him a lot more money than what he was making in ATL and it was his contract year. Say it with me, contract year.

Now imagine this will you. Schaub goes down due to a late hit from some cheapshot artist. And out comes. . . Quincy Porter, or Bradlee Van Pelt under center. You would cry, I would cry, and the 1 draft pick that we would get for dealing Sage (Because no team is going to give us multiple picks for him) would also cry.

I don't see how you think having Sage on our team is keeping us below .500 when in reality, it's pretty much keeping us from going any lower. He has stepped in to no less than 3 games this year, and he started 1 and won it too? You're wanting to trade away our insurance policy for draft picks. If we did trade Sage we would absolutely have to spend the only draft pick we would get for him, on. . . another QB. It wouldn't work, and the only way it would happen is if somebody would be goofy enough to try to trade multiple (2+) draft picks to get him.

It definitely is a luxury now that I think about it. Why? There are 32 teams, so with backups, there are 64 guys that could play QB in a regular season game in the NFL in a given week.

That is why there is a premium on quality backups.

What does that even mean? Lots of teams carry 3 QB's on their roster because the starter is old (Garcia and the Bucs) or they are in the middle of a QB carousel right now (Jackson, Minnesota).

If people are knocking down the door to get Sage then yeah, trade him for 2 or 3 picks. But I know that's not going to be the case this offseason. Dealing him, just to deal him is such a horrible way of shooting yourself in the foot, it's Casserly-like.

And here's a question I pose to you, would you rather have a young rookie taking snaps under center? Because that is what would happen if Schaub ever got hurt in a game (which has happened a lot so far), and we had dealt Sage for a single draft pick.

I just can't believe that this thread got started about Sage of all people, when who we should be shopping around for draft picks is Anthony Weaver. He takes up more cap space, produces less, and has more people to take his place than Sage does. He fits all the criteria for trade that Sage doesn't.

hollywood_texan
12-05-2007, 11:58 AM
I don't see how you think having Sage on our team is keeping us below .500 when in reality, it's pretty much keeping us from going any lower.

The Texans need players, it's that simple. Keeping Sage isn't going to put the Texans over .500, if you wanna look at it from that perspective.

I understand the logic behind having a quality backup. In some circumstances, it is good to have, but it is a luxury the Texans don't need if they get good value.

Schaub and Sage cannot play at the same time. I would much rather have an impact player that will play every game. Meaning, the Texans could get a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I think the team would be a lot better off if they had a rookie sensation starting at linebacker, offensive line, or defensive back in place of Sage sitting on the bench coming in on spot duty.

Furthermore, whenever there is an injury on the offensive line and defensive backfield, we are picking guys off the street while being stacked at the QB position. The Texans need players, which is what I think is more important than carrying 2 QBs.

Also, Sage's contract is also an advantage because he locked up for a small amount of cap hit for the team that acquires him.

It would be in the Texans best interest to pursue the possibility of trading Sage if does well while Schaub is out and there is legit interest in obtaining his services.

That's all I am saying...

And here's a question I pose to you, would you rather have a young rookie taking snaps under center? Because that is what would happen if Schaub ever got hurt in a game (which has happened a lot so far), and we had dealt Sage for a single draft pick.


When I look at who the Texans have at RB, offensive line, and defensive backs, the answer to your question is yes. I would be more than happy to run that risk if it means drafting a rookie sensation to fill one of those holes.

It just amazes what the Texans will do for the QB position, but just ignore other positions.

ArlingtonTexan
12-05-2007, 12:23 PM
The issue with trading Sage is that someone would have to value him as a starter, not a quality reserve in order to get enough value to make losing him worthwhile. In essence, a veteran back-up QB, familiar with your system has more value to the team he is on than in the open market. In a lot of ways, he is like the dependable, paid for 2nd car. You don't realize the value until you either have to use the thing more than expected or you don't have one.

hollywood_texan
12-05-2007, 12:32 PM
The issue with trading Sage is that someone would have to value him as a starter, not a quality reserve in order to get enough value to make losing him worthwhile. In essence, a veteran back-up QB, familiar with your system has more value to the team he is on than in the open market. In a lot of ways, he is like the dependable, paid for 2nd car. You don't realize the value until you either have to use the thing more than expected or you don't have one.

I hear what you are saying and really don't disagree with you or the other people I have responded to.

It's really a matter of perspective and analysis of the current situation regarding the roster.

You probably are right, Sage probably has more value to the Texans than any other team. It's one thing to be a quality backup QB in the NFL, it's another to be a legit starter learning a new system.

I would explore the opportunity though, that's for sure, and try to Casserly some other GM to the Texans benefit.

b0ng
12-05-2007, 12:36 PM
I can see your reasoning, but I just cannot agree with it. Unless there's a team that's willing to give up multiple picks, the value Sage brings to the Texans as a quality backup that does not take up that much cap space is more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder that would be a best case scenario we would get for him.

We would be plugging a hole at the line or backfield, and opening up a worse hole at our QB position. We would maybe solve one problem and definitely generate a way worse one.

Corrosion
12-05-2007, 12:47 PM
If some team value's Sage as a starting calibur QB and is willing to break the bank to get him you have to pull the trigger ......

Problem is that I dont see Sage as a starter elsewhere . In reality he has had one REALLY good quarter of football against the Titan's while the rest of his play has been merely average at best .

Another thing is that I think the Texans offense suits him well ... systems can make or break a player . If those would be trade partners see him the same way I do then his value isnt near high enough to let him go .


More draft picks on this team would be a nice luxury as there are so many holes to fill .... LT , C , OLB , CB (im not counting on Dunta) and FS to name a few .... Sage just isnt the guy to trade to help fill those holes .

hollywood_texan
12-05-2007, 12:48 PM
I can see your reasoning, but I just cannot agree with it. Unless there's a team that's willing to give up multiple picks, the value Sage brings to the Texans as a quality backup that does not take up that much cap space is more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder that would be a best case scenario we would get for him.

We would be plugging a hole at the line or backfield, and opening up a worse hole at our QB position. We would maybe solve one problem and definitely generate a way worse one.

I am lot more concerned about playing Ron Dayne, Chester Pitts, Ephirham Salem, Fred Weary, and on and on for another year.

If I could get one very good rookie starter to replace one of those guys and the trade off is moving Sage. Done!

I think you are looking at a one year of benefit, I am looking 3 to 4 years down the road. And what is that benefit from your perspective? Maybe a .500 record?

The Texans have to really start addressing the offensive line issues, need a big play running back, a quality linebacker, and the defensive backfield is just a complete mess. The Texans gave up two 2nd round draft picks and slipped two spots in the first to get Schaub. I think it is very clear Schaub it not the player to make the Texans better considering what they gave up for him. It was a push.

My point is the Texans don't have enough drafts picks to address glaring holes in the roster. Building a team through free agency and trades puts you in the mess we are in right now and is for the short term.

TheRealJoker
12-05-2007, 02:04 PM
I just can't believe that this thread got started about Sage of all people, when who we should be shopping around for draft picks is Anthony Weaver. He takes up more cap space, produces less, and has more people to take his place than Sage does. He fits all the criteria for trade that Sage doesn't.

...except value to other teams

You basically answered your own question as to why people dont want to trade for Weaver instead of Sage.

Overpriced contract + less production on the field = Not so much value on the open market.

Corrosion
12-05-2007, 02:20 PM
...except value to other teams

You basically answered your own question as to why people dont want to trade for Weaver instead of Sage.

Overpriced contract + less production on the field = Not so much value on the open market.

Weaver reminds me of Jay Foreman ...... Ugh. (yeah I know Different position)


The guy was made out to be a very good run stopper upon arival . Ive yet to really see that . In the Titans game Sunday .... Titans have the ball first and goal at the Texans seven (this is the Titans first scoring drive). Weaver gets driven backwards for 6 yards by White ..... down to the one . This type of play has been typical of the Texans defense for quite a while .

DerekLee1
12-05-2007, 02:23 PM
Trade him for a 2nd rounder. Trade our high 1st round pick for a low 1st round and second round pick. Then take Jonathan Stewart in the late first round, Colt Brennan in the high second round, and your late 2nd and 3rd round picks on OL and secondary.

RB upgraded, backup QB hole filled with a gifted potential future starter (toward the end of Schaub's contract), and holes at OL and secondary filled.

This all assumes, of course, that we land a premium lineman (Faneca?) and safety (Bob Sanders?) in free agency.

threetoedpete
12-05-2007, 02:46 PM
I have to agree with you on this AT. Unless a team is so desperate and would give us 3 or 4 picks, I wouldn't even think about trading Sage away. Now if Schaub was someone who never got hurt, and we had a 3rd string QB that could step in like Sage, it would be a different story. But at this time, it doesn't make any sense to do this. It would be like taking a step backwards. If we're going to get extra draft picks, it will probably come by trading back during the draft like they did this past draft when they traded back in the 4th and picked up an extra 5th rounder. JMHO!

Agreed: So going by this logic....we're so bad that we have to get draft picks out of players who have proved themselves on the roster, why not go whole hog ?
Lets trade Andre Johnson to Dallas for their two ones and two ?

No way ?

I mean that's basiclly what we are saying. We have a bad o-line any way, lets just trade away one of the better back ups in the league that affords you the luxury of saving a roster spot for a specail teams guy or an extra TE or FB. Instead...let's just keep three young guys suck up roster spots and let us get beat to death when MS goes down ? Is that it ?

So are you suggesting that we go next season with MS and the guy from New Mexico, San Deigo State and the guy from Tulsa as the primary back ups ?

Or are you posting that they should spend the third on the best QB that comes sliding down the board ? Just would like to see your plan for replacing Sage. Or are you going to pick up a FA guy who is determined by one of the other teams to not be ready for prime time yet ? One of Oakland's cast offs ? Just curious how you would fill this void .

hollywood_texan
12-05-2007, 03:09 PM
Agreed: So going by this logic....we're so bad that we have to get draft picks out of players who have proved themselves on the roster, why not go whole hog ?
Lets trade Andre Johnson to Dallas for their two ones and two ?

No way ?

I mean that's basiclly what we are saying. We have a bad o-line any way, lets just trade away one of the better back ups in the league that affords you the luxury of saving a roster spot for a specail teams guy or an extra TE or FB. Instead...let's just keep three young guys suck up roster spots and let us get beat to death when MS goes down ? Is that it ?

So are you suggesting that we go next season with MS and the guy from New Mexico, San Deigo State and the guy from Tulsa as the primary back ups ?

Or are you posting that they should spend the third on the best QB that comes sliding down the board ? Just would like to see your plan for replacing Sage. Or are you going to pick up a FA guy who is determined by one of the other teams to not be ready for prime time yet ? One of Oakland's cast offs ? Just curious how you would fill this void .

The offensive line and defensive backfield are full of band aids. If you could trade Sage to a get a starter in the second or third of next year's draft to fill one of those issues, I say you do it. The Texans need quality starters, not an insurance policy at this stage of the game.

I understand your point about the QB position and having a quality backup, but what about all the other positions that are lacking serious talent as well?

The Texans are going to have to get creative in order to revamp the roster. Sliding two spots last year and giving up to 2 second rounds picks set the Texans back at the expense of the QB position. That sure sounds famaliar!

Keeping Sage isn't going to build this team for the future and it isn't going to mean a push to be better than .500. Besides, due to free agency, Sage is going to get leave anyway if has the opportunity to start somewhere else. At least get some value when you acquired him for nothing.

Too many holes on the roster to say a backup QB is untouchable.

threetoedpete
12-05-2007, 03:56 PM
The offensive line and defensive backfield are full of band aids. If you could trade Sage to a get a starter in the second or third of next year's draft to fill one of those issues, I say you do it. The Texans need quality starters, not an insurance policy at this stage of the game.

I understand your point about the QB position and having a quality backup, but what about all the other positions that are lacking serious talent as well?

The Texans are going to have to get creative in order to revamp the roster. Sliding two spots last year and giving up to 2 second rounds picks set the Texans back at the expense of the QB position. That sure sounds famaliar!

Keeping Sage isn't going to build this team for the future and it isn't going to mean a push to be better than .500. Besides, due to free agency, Sage is going to get leave anyway if has the opportunity to start somewhere else. At least get some value when you acquired him for nothing.

Too many holes on the roster to say a backup QB is untouchable.



Two weeks ago I would of listened to this. Our o-line just got whiped out. There aren't just holes in the dam anymore we need to improve...there is no dam. It's gone. So just know going in that they aren't going to rebuild the o-line with quality draft picks in one draft. Too many holes not to keep a solid QB on the roster. Unless you're playing for the '09 draft and you want the team to crater in '08 on purpose ? Is that what you are posting ? Waist '08 to get at the '09 draft class ? Kubiack should of given the young o-line guys some snaps way befor it became a disater. He didn't . Why...he dosen't give up. He's stuborn. He honestly believed that they still had a chance even after the Jaxonville beat down. Even after McKinney went down. He's not going to waist a year to get to the quick fix. He dosen't operate that way. So let's trade A.J. and get a bunch of picks... I don't think so. They're going to need every roster spot they have to squeeze as many o-lineman onto the roster as they possibly can come cut downs in August. Wanna believe anything is going to happen believe that one.

hollywood_texan
12-05-2007, 05:58 PM
Two weeks ago I would of listened to this. Our o-line just got whiped out. There aren't just holes in the dam anymore we need to improve...there is no dam. It's gone. So just know going in that they aren't going to rebuild the o-line with quality draft picks in one draft. Too many holes not to keep a solid QB on the roster. Unless you're playing for the '09 draft and you want the team to crater in '08 on purpose ? Is that what you are posting ? Waist '08 to get at the '09 draft class ? Kubiack should of given the young o-line guys some snaps way befor it became a disater. He didn't . Why...he dosen't give up. He's stuborn. He honestly believed that they still had a chance even after the Jaxonville beat down. Even after McKinney went down. He's not going to waist a year to get to the quick fix. He dosen't operate that way. So let's trade A.J. and get a bunch of picks... I don't think so. They're going to need every roster spot they have to squeeze as many o-lineman onto the roster as they possibly can come cut downs in August. Wanna believe anything is going to happen believe that one.

I never said trade AJ or to even trade a starter. You are going down a path I didn't even bring up.

You mention McKinney on the offensive line. Without the injury he had this season, he probably wouldn't start on many teams in the NFL.

This whole injury issue for 2007 is really a misnomer, most of the players the Texans that were injured this year would have had a hard time finding a new team anyway if cut by the Texans.

Here is a question for you, how does trading your backup QB mean your throwing away a season anyway? It's a risk and it seems to be very expensive insurance that we really don't need at this point.

Like I said, given the current situation of the Texans, the backup QB should not be untouchable. Which seems to be what you are advocating.

I am not saying to give him away. But, pump up his value and see what you can get. Besides, with free agency and if is that good, he'll get his shot anyway and the Texans will not get any value in return. And just what is that value, we hang around just under .500. I am not saying one player will make the difference, but that one player could be an important piece of the puzzle the Texans wouldn't have otherwise. Futhermore, we gave up two 2nd round draft picks for a QB we have to provide insurance on. The cost of ownership with Texans QBs is ridiculous!

The Texans need players. If we can trade a backup QB to get a rookie starter on the offensive line, linebacker, RB, or defensive back. I say do it. You have to take risks to be successful.

I understand the concept you are coming from, but that doesn't mean it is applicable to every situation. The Texans situation is one of those situations.

Mr PC
12-05-2007, 06:09 PM
Seeing as we have a starting QB that cant stay in the game for more than 2 drives I dont think its a good idea to trade Sage away. He knows how to run this offense better than anyone we could replace him with. Sage's value to this team far exceeds his trade value, so I seriously doubt he'll be leaving anytime soon.

DerekLee1
12-05-2007, 10:55 PM
Lets trade Andre Johnson to Dallas for their two ones and two ?

If Dallas actually offered that, I think you'd have to do it. That would give you THREE number ones and a 2nd round pick. No-brainer.

BigBull17
12-05-2007, 11:13 PM
If Dallas actually offered that, I think you'd have to do it. That would give you THREE number ones and a 2nd round pick. No-brainer.

And take the colossal cap hit that comes with it? What good are 3 1st round picks if we absorb that kind of dead money? And what do you accomplish if you lose one of the best players in the NFL, and far and away the best on our team? Thats just foolish. Look for any resource you can find that is expendable, but for the love of all that is holy, dont touch AJ.

b0ng
12-05-2007, 11:22 PM
If Dallas actually offered that, I think you'd have to do it. That would give you THREE number ones and a 2nd round pick. No-brainer.

Well if that's the case, we could probably also offload Mario for a 1st rounder, we could get rid of Dunta probably for a 1st as well. Heck, then we could easily ship off Owen Daniels for a 3rd or 4th, and then after that we could probably sucker some team into taking Demeco Ryans off our hands for a 1st and 3rd.

After that we would have FIVE number ones a 2nd and like a million others in the later rounds! We would be unstoppable!

Seriously, you don't just give away your best players for draft picks unless your cupboard is completely bare of talent and you have to rebuild. We are already a few years into rebuilding, and we are doing what I consider to be a great job. Injuries have really caught up to us this year, and I don't think that there is a need to send off any player with value for draft picks.

Don't trade Sage, for anything. It will only lead to tears when Matt gets hurt again (likely) and you can't just hope that the QB you drafted in the 4th round is going to set the world on fire, or you are going to be talking about the draft again, only in October.

TheRealJoker
12-05-2007, 11:23 PM
The Cowboys certainly did well for themselves when they traded Herschel Walker...

Just sayin!!!

b0ng
12-06-2007, 01:44 AM
The Cowboys certainly did well for themselves when they traded Herschel Walker...

Just sayin!!!

They did get like 6 picks for Walker right?

Texanmike02
12-06-2007, 02:00 AM
That's why I wouldn't. Schaub seems (I may be wrong, you can't guage a hit from the stands) but he seems to be more fragile than we thought. The last thing we want is to get caught without a backup right now. But if he has a shot to start somewhere, I would love for him to get a shot too. He's earned it. ---Only if we get a second rounder or better though.....otherwise there will be riots!

You know. I was thinking. (That is usually dangerous and leads to long posts) that maybe Schaub isn't that fragile. Is it possible the team is sitting him at the first sign of trouble because of the pass protection problems? Just a thought. Did we maybe learn from our experience with Carr?

Mike

threetoedpete
12-06-2007, 03:13 AM
You know. I was thinking. (That is usually dangerous and leads to long posts) that maybe Schaub isn't that fragile. Is it possible the team is sitting him at the first sign of trouble because of the pass protection problems? Just a thought. Did we maybe learn from our experience with Carr?

Mike

Well from your post to Rick Smith's eyes. What we know for a fact is that he has one concusion in the bank and four left in the tank. You can throw that 18 number out there if you want to...my tree the guy has taken some tremendiuos shots this year. Shots that would have knock anyone out. So just what is your standard for fragile ? His fault , line's fault it realy doesn't matter. At this rate the guy will be done after three seasons.


I tend to be positive about the players. I stuck By DC untill the Oakland game. So, I think throwing MS under the bus is a little premature at this time.

I believe we over paid for him just a tad. I also believe he has proven himself to be more than just a blue collar QB. He is a top five guy under the correct circumstances ? Just what are they prepaired to do to get the circumstances correct. I dunno. We'll see.

Texanmike02
12-06-2007, 04:27 AM
I'm probably going to become the most unpopular person on this board... but I'm not sure what the love fest with Sage is really. He's a decent backup but the more I think about it... He's not really that special. In every game he's been in I can think of several great throws. I can also think of several bad throws. He takes way too many risks if you ask me, and he eventually gets burned. Yeah he knows the offense, but he seems in a rush to make something happen. Could we do worse? Sure. Could we do better? I'm sure we could. Honestly, if some team wanted to offer me something substancial for him I'd listen. I don't think that a backup QB that makes alot of ill advised throws is really that hard to replace. Just my opinion, but I think we have a tendancy to over value him.

Mike

hollywood_texan
12-06-2007, 12:32 PM
Just my opinion, but I think we have a tendancy to over value him.

Mike

Probably the best comment in this thread which makes this whole discussion moot. Nevertheless, a good conversation and a good way to kill time.

Point is, no team is probably going to trade for Rosensfels.

You can lock up this thread if you like because it seems we have come full circle.

bckey
12-06-2007, 12:51 PM
Not saying Schaub is bad because I do like him but to me he kind of reminds me of Chad Pennington. Intelligent QB that is injury prone with a weak arm.

As for Sage I don't think it would be a good idea to trade him unless we got a big bounty for him which I don't see happening. Until Schaub proves he can stay on the field we will need a good back up like Sage.