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beerlover
12-03-2007, 02:43 PM
OT is certainly a need, but the quality & depth of this class depends on the underclassman coming out early. the two top prospects (not including Jake Long because he will be a Top 10 pick) often injured Sam Baker, USC & Gosder Cherilus BC don't exactly capture my imagination. however underclassman Ryan Clady, Boise State & Michael Oher, Mississippi I would welcome with open arms :friends:

if they come out it would be too risky to trade down, at least for my taste so the Texans take one wherever they select & don't play around. if they don't then I would listen to trade offers for the pick to add a 2nd rd. pick. I've already discussed a rising OT out of Pitt who has what it takes, IMO, to play LT Jeff Otah 6-6 340 (Charles Spencer, also from Pitt was 6-5 350). in the last couple weeks his play has been outstanding holding South Florida DE George Selvie without a sack and only two tackles then helping Pitt upset #2 West Virginia.

Center wise if the Texans traded down this too makes some sense. Steve Justice Wake Forrest & Jr. Alex Mack California.

Guard can be addressed from 3rd - 7th, lets hope last years picks (Brandon Frye, Kasey Studdard) get some pt the last 4 games to see what they can do. :)

TexansSeminole
12-03-2007, 02:51 PM
The three offensive lineman that you have listed and I have seen play are Gosder Cherilus, Jake Long, and Steve Justice. All of these players are worthy of picks in the first round IMO. How high is another question. Gosder I think will go top 25. Long probably won't last past 10. Center don't usually go in the top 20, however Justice is a damn good football player.

We will probably pick around 10, depending on the rest of the season, so we are looking at the #1 or #2 LT most likely, and a chance at the best center.

We have so many needs at this point that you could close your eyes and choose a prospect and you would probably be filling a need.

Ole Miss Texan
12-03-2007, 04:30 PM
I understand your point about not trading down. Case in point...2005- we trade down and New Orleans grabs Jammal Brown out of OU. We then take Travis who has been bust until this season, where he's been pretty respectable (we just expect more from a 1st rounder drafted in the top half).

Jeff Otah is a guy I have watched a couple of times, and really started paying attention when I remembered Spencer played at Pitt. At first I assumed he'd be a late 2nd/early 3rd guy like Spencer was but this guy is really impressive. As much of a need as LT is..I think we would be able to draft a better player with our 1st rounder.

However, depending on what happens...Otah I think would be a great selection. I wonder if we play him at left tackle but get a really great opportunity in the 1st round in 2009 draft on a top flight left tackle (like a Michael Oher) if we couldn't select him too. Rumor has it both Spencer and Otah could play Guard. Oher is another O-lineman that could play guard as well. So we'd be looking at a selection of OL guys on our team to fill in along the OL when we have a Spencer or we have a Weary break their leg.

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but...trade down grab LT, C w/ the first to picks this draft. Use our 1st next year on another OL?? That's one way to fix the problem I guess!

beerlover
12-03-2007, 05:45 PM
Centers are a less obvious yet no less valued commodity as Left Tackles. Alex Mack has alot of promise @ the next level & could conceiveably start sooner than most rookies if needed. here is a good article about him-

http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=26665

But such attention to detail goes far beyond game day. Mack is usually the last lineman off the field after practice, always getting in a little extra footwork and hand work while other players grab some Gatorade. For such a large individual, Mack is surprisingly quick. He can run the 40-yard dash in 5.0 seconds, a feat only four lineman at the last NFL Combine surpassed.

That quickness and Mack's brute strength have terrorized opposing defensive lines. Last season, Mack led the team in pancakes—a type of block, not the food—with 25.5, and had a team-high 57.5 knockdowns. This season, he and the rest of the line have allowed only eight sacks, lowest in the conference. The Bears are averaging 167.8 yards per game on the ground this year behind that line. Part of that success stems from Mack’s experience with a primarily ground-based offense in high school. Since coming to Cal, however, Mack has had to learn to protect pocket passers like Nate Longshore.

Insideop
12-05-2007, 03:37 PM
Centers are a less obvious yet no less valued commodity as Left Tackles. Alex Mack has alot of promise @ the next level & could conceiveably start sooner than most rookies if needed. here is a good article about him-

http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=26665

I think we will definately be in the market for a Center this year since we don't know if McKinney or White will be back at the start of next season, and Flanagan will be starting his 14th year.

You're right about Mack, and he or Justice could go off the board in the late 1st or early 2nd round. I'm much higher on Mack than Justice due to the size difference (Mack, 6-5, 300 lbs and Justice, 6-4, 280 lbs), and they both run about the same forty (5.06). I'm not sure how the Texans will be able to get either one since they don't have a 2nd rd. pick, unless they are able to trade down in the 1st. At this point though, we just don't know where the Centers will start coming off the board. Like last year, it could be late in the 2nd round.

I do think this group coming out this year is much stronger than last years group, especially if Mack comes out. Others to keep an eye on are:

Pollock, Az St., 6'4", 295 lbs., 4.92 forty.
Velasco, Georga, 6'4", 328 lbs., 5.06 forty
Legursky, Marshall, 6'3", 311 lbs., 5.22 forty
Spieker, Missouri, 6'3", 305 lbs., 5.14 forty

There are others out there that are pretty good, but one of these should fall to us in the 3rd or even 4th round and maybe later. It all depends on what other teams are looking for and how high or low they value these players. JMHO!

threetoedpete
12-05-2007, 04:11 PM
Left off Cody Walace of Texas Agrecutural and Mechanical.

Well the only way they are going to hit the left tackle is if they Like Clady , Boone or Oher and figgure he's the guy.And all of those guys are Juniors who have yet to declare. I try to move down to hit a cover corner first myself if they all come out. And hope and pray the pickens aren't too lean after day one. Take a chance on Bennidict in day two who is being reported to be under acheiving to the tallent level, or King Dunlop who's been a curl lipped Jane his whole career. Then there are the two gaurds who are dinged up. Teams do not like to take the dinged up guys high. But in our position, a team who's left the feild unattended for so long...you have to take some chances. If Oher, Boone falls to them or Clady, they have ebough tallent you pass the corner or the stud rb for. Loadholt, move down take the Cover corner and hope he falls enough for you to move back up in the second and go get him. You miss on loadholt got to go slumming with the numbers guy Bennidict or the hurt guys. Whether Spencer comes back or not with two guys into the equation and the cover corner, you can post the 11-5's next August. I'll yell at you again , but it will be possible. Possible, not likly. Won't really matter whether Charles Spencer or Dante are there or not if they hit the correct holes. The frist questions are what are the guys feet like ?
Can the guy run block ? Anything around the five-o mark and can lift thirty times, I'm smelling realy closly if I'm a Texan's scout. Personaly I think we just hit the critacal mass mark on the o-line.

badboy
12-05-2007, 04:15 PM
Left off Cody Walace of Texas Agrecutural and Mechanical.

Well the only way they are going to hit the left tackle is if they Like Clady or Oher and figgure he's the guy. I try to move down to hit a cover corner first my self and hope and pray the pickens aren't too lean after day one. Take a chance on Bennidict who is being reported to be under acheiving to the tallent level, or King Dunlop who's been a curl lipped Jane his whole career. Then there are the two gaurds who are dinged up. Teams do not like to take the dinged up guys high. But in our position, a team who's left the feild unattended for so long...you have to take some chances. If Oher falls to them or Clady, they have ebough tallent you pass the corner or the stud rb for. Loadholt, move down take the Cover corner and hope he falls enough for you to move back up in the second and go get him. You miss on loadholt got to go slumming with the numbers guy Bennidict or the hurt guys. Whether Spencer comes back or not with two guys into the eqation and the cover corner, you can post the 11-5's next August. I'll yell at you again , but it will be possible. Possible, not likly.

Is trade down from #11 or so to Arizona # 17 or so and get a 2nd possible? Then a trade from 17 to late 20s for a third? Am I hoping to hard?

threetoedpete
12-05-2007, 04:42 PM
Is trade down from #11 or so to Arizona # 17 or so and get a 2nd possible? Then a trade from 17 to late 20s for a third? Am I hoping to hard?

No that's what I'm thinking. I mean if we're talking about hitting a bunch of stuff, making the team good enough to be competitive enough to make a playoff run if we avoid injuries for once...I don't see any other way they can do it. I mean yeah the stud RB or Cover corner would be a nice addition. But if the stud RB dosen't have anyholes ? We've seen Dayne this year all the guy needs is a hole and he can shuffle on down the feild. Severl DBs who can be CB/ Fs canidates. Only one free safty. They take the free safty in round one, we aren't going anywhere next year. The Key is all of the Junior OLTs. will they declare ? They all come out we have a better chance at hitting better tallent. Teams will be more willing to take the chance on the o-line guys falling in to the latter rounds.

b0ng
12-05-2007, 09:10 PM
Honestly, I'm really hoping that they add any talent they feel needed to the defense through free agency. I think we've got our nice rookie starters on all 3 of the levels of defense, and we just need maybe one or two players to really make it work out. I'm also kind of hoping they cut Greenwood and Weaver to free up some cap space from next year, or at least make em renegotiate their contracts. This is one draftnicks overview of some first rounders from a different board (I respect this guy's opinion and he seems to be pretty decent at telling who can perform and who will probably underperform in the NFL)

Things are starting to look up if you need OL help this year.

1. Long - looks like a rich man's Levi Brown, in that he's a RT, but will be a really good one.

2. Baker - fallen to mid-first IMO. Poor-man's Brick.

3. Oher - shaking that future guard label, but he still might be a RT.

4. Clady - Good candidate to leave early, has the feet for RT.

5. Boone - will he leave early? Probably shouldn't with this class.

6. Cherilus - a RT in the NFL, ala Trueblood and Marten.

7. Loadholdt - hype machine spinning out of control here. Let's chill out before we have the next Kwame Harris or Kenyatta Walker.

8. Hills - if the Ugoh comparison is apt, he'll do better in the NFL than in college.

Those are just the potential firsts. There are a lot of other guys with first day grades right now.

ProFootballWeekly has also done a nice report scouting OL this draft (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/positionrptOL.htm) that I think a lot of people would like to look at. Here are some quotes about players already mentioned here:

To the welcome ears of NFL decision-makers who could never have enough good offensive linemen, this year’s OT class could be as rich as there has been in the past decade with the support of some talented underclassmen. However, the pickings are much more slim inside, and the senior class provides very little quality or depth inside.

At the top of this year’s offensive line class sits Michigan OLT Jake Long. At first glance, he looks like more of a throwback right tackle than a left tackle — he’s huge, very tough, nasty and will try to bury his man in the ground in the run game. But he has shed weight and made a concerted effort to improve his quickness the past two years, making strides in pass protection and proving more than capable of holding down the OLT spot in the pros.

Pittsburgh OLT Jeff Otah may have as much upside as any player in the draft. Having come from Nigeria when he was seven and not playing organized football until his senior year in high school, he is still learning how to use angles and take advantage of his immensely talented skill set. He has terrific size with long arms and great foot quickness.

Boston College OLT Gosder Cherilus has regressed as a senior since moving from the right side to the left to replace Dallas Cowboys 2007 third-round pick (No. 67 overall) James Marten. He plays as if he is thinking too much, has been slow to slide and anticipate what is coming at him and does not consistently finish.

Wake Forest’s Steve Justice has emerged as the top center in the country. He is not for every team. His lack of girth could make it difficult for him to handle massive space-eaters. However, for a team like the Colts or Broncos, he could bring tremendous value, getting to the second level and using his quickness to zone off areas. He figures to be the first senior center drafted

And so on and so forth.

Personally, I think that we should easily be able to pick up some good OL talent in this years draft, and really, as long as we don't overpay, I've come around a little on this years FA OL coming out as well. I'm not a big fan of Faneca (Too old for my taste), but Ryan Lilja and Max Starks might make me take a second look if the price is right. Either one would be able to come in and have an immediate impact I think, but I also believe that Faneca is the one that is out in Pittsburgh, and Starks will get re-signed.

For the draft though, I really think it all depends on who is available at the time and go from there. Clady, Baker, Long, and Otah, or Oher, one should be available when we pick, and I think any of those guys would be a decent 1st round value.

For 3rd round you've maybe got one of Justice, Mack, or Wallace available as well. I don't know if we go OL two times in a row, but I wouldn't be extremely butthurt if we did. If we can pick up 3 decent bodies for the OL in the offseason (And I mean like possible starters, not just backups) then I think Schaubs performance will be a ton better than this year, and I also think our running game will pick up quite a bit. This will of course leave a huge gaping hole at RB, which will make most casual fans to call in with retarded "We should've taken _____" on local radio shows, but I can deal with that.

painekiller
12-05-2007, 11:19 PM
Beerlover nice find on the OC from Cal. What round to you think he goes?

beerlover
12-06-2007, 11:46 AM
Beerlover nice find on the OC from Cal. What round to you think he goes?

2nd rd. to the first team who needs a Center (should he declare). possiblities include Atlanta, Detroit, KC or TB.

threetoedpete
12-06-2007, 12:17 PM
I don't know where this guy is getting the "hype Machine" from. Every time I see Loadholt play he crushes everything in front of him...go ask Texas' Frank Okam.
He handled the Mizzu guys fairly well I thought. And those guys got after Reisling. Hype Machine...I know what I saw.

Runner
12-06-2007, 04:16 PM
It seems like draft o-line is the what we hear every year when the season is tanking, but as soon as the off-season is here more shiny objects catch our attention.

Mario's combine numbers!
Reggie Bush - the next Gale Sayers!
Vince Young - all he does is win!

Last year most people didn't want to "waste" the tenth pick on Levi Brown, but he ended up going fifth.

It will be interesting to see if the trend continues this off-season.

bah007
12-06-2007, 04:32 PM
It seems like draft o-line is the what we hear every year when the season is tanking, but as soon as the off-season is here more shiny objects catch our attention.

Mario's combine numbers!
Reggie Bush - the next Gale Sayers!
Vince Young - all he does is win!

Last year most people didn't want to "waste" the tenth pick on Levi Brown, but he ended up going fifth.

It will be interesting to see if the trend continues this off-season.

Good point.

beerlover
12-12-2007, 01:13 AM
despite what appears to be a major concern (OL) they've actually improved, only allowed 18 sacks (16/Schaub & 2 for Sage) which is among the NFL leaders. The Saints have allowed only 11 while both the Patriots & Browns have 16 :)

edo783
12-12-2007, 04:42 AM
despite what appears to be a major concern (OL) they've actually improved, only allowed 18 sacks (16/Schaub & 2 for Sage) which is among the NFL leaders. The Saints have allowed only 11 while both the Patriots & Browns have 16 :)

While the stats have certainly improved, I can't see where any actual quality of O-line improvement has happend. IMO, most if not all of the decline in sacks is attributable to a change in QB and offensive scheme. Now, is the line playing better...yes and that is likely due to them being in the scheme for a couple of years with the same coaches, but are they a good O-oline....not by a long shot..

Hervoyel
12-12-2007, 08:19 AM
I have half a mind to rename this thread "The 7th Annual Draft O-Line Thread" because we see this same thread every year (because we need help every year, not knocking anybody for starting it)

Texans Horror
12-12-2007, 08:39 AM
And just like every year, no first round pick ever goes to the left tackle...

threetoedpete
12-12-2007, 08:59 AM
Well they need a left tackle...and they need a front line RB. But when you get a
QB controvercy, with all due respect on the sack numbers there beerlover...after the #2 puts up a couple of good games...you've got a problem. From my tree...the system is so good and Andre Johnson is soo good...they cover up a lot of bad. We had two great open feild blocks the last two games by an o-lineman...Erick got both of 'em. From My tree...we need better athletes along the oline. Slumming for them the second day is only going to get our QB killed. I mean how much value is there when you have to switch out the Qb every three or four years ? 65 had great game sunday, no doubt. But the factor all season long has been...when they come up against a great DT in the middle our rush attack is stoped dead in it's tracks. And it's been that way since McKinney went down. See how 65 and Falnagan do this week. Flanagan, as much as I've balsted the guy has had a couple of decent starts. Paper is whipping everybody up for a winning record...we'll see. What is Salaam up to now tewnty -four straight games ? Legs are starting to get heavy. From my tree we're spending out a very good swing guy much like they wore out Dominic Davis-Williams. This horse only has only so many snaps left in him and apparently we're going to use them all this season. They ride him untill he drops stone cold dead, he'll be no use to anyone. On the one hand you can say they got good value with the swing guy making twenty five starts...on the other... if he goes down befor the marathon is over...now you gotta find two guys.

threetoedpete
12-12-2007, 09:31 AM
I have half a mind to rename this thread "The 7th Annual Draft O-Line Thread" because we see this same thread every year (because we need help every year, not knocking anybody for starting it)

And untill they get one, a top flight tallent at OLT, there will be one. We were teased by Bosselli, then Wand and Pitts, then Spencer.... I haven't been teased up this much since I went out with the hot little neighborhood methodist gurl, Kathleen Newsome. So you can prety much assume if there isn't one, I'm dead and in the ground.

badboy
12-12-2007, 10:45 AM
despite what appears to be a major concern (OL) they've actually improved, only allowed 18 sacks (16/Schaub & 2 for Sage) which is among the NFL leaders. The Saints have allowed only 11 while both the Patriots & Browns have 16 :)Reducing sacks has not had a impact on Ws that I had hoped for but it is a tremendous boost to team and confidence factor for QBs.

badboy
12-12-2007, 10:54 AM
And untill they get one, a top flight tallent at OLT, there will be one. We were teased by Bosselli, then Wand and Pitts, then Spencer.... I haven't been teased up this much since I went out with the hot little neighborhood methodist gurl, Kathleen Newsome. So you can prety much assume if there isn't one, I'm dead and in the ground.Uh.. telephone call for you from Kathleen's dad. I think it is ok to go for a LT in later rounds if you want to place your eggs in that basket. Unfortunately, the team usually gets an ok player that hopefully plays above his round selection. I do not think we have experienced that. Winston comes closest but he is not playing at first round potential and maybe not 2nd round imo. Maybe stats will show I'm incorrect but my point is LT protects the center point of the team and I'd feel better with a first round guy.

beerlover
12-12-2007, 10:58 AM
I have half a mind to rename this thread "The 7th Annual Draft O-Line Thread" because we see this same thread every year (because we need help every year, not knocking anybody for starting it)

there should be an O-line thread every year, regardless don't you think? I would suggest that production does matter & since Kubiak has taken charge of the draft process there has been a marked improvement with the talent level & draft emphasis towards the O-line.

the Texans have needs everywhere, in Kubiaks first two drafts he has adressed need/depth on the O-Line. 2006 3rd rd. picks Spencer & Winston (both still with the team, Spencers career in question only because of injury) 2007 5th rd pick Brandon Frye (yet to see action) 6th rd. Kasey Studdard (limited action). for the 2008 draft the Texans only have 6 picks, if they follow form two of those picks will go to the offensive line or 1/3 of the draft will be used on O-Line.

obviously a key to building a great O-Line is using higher picks, specificly its that 2nd rd. pick, you know the one's we don't have (07/08) so the natural reaction would be to use the 1st rd. pick this year to finally fill this need , but only if the right one falls into our laps (I don't see Clady or Long slipping out of the top 10 & Oher stays in school). that leaves three prospects to pin your hopes on one a true LT Sam Baker, Gosder Cherilus projects to RT & Jeff Otah who would be a bit of a reach that early.

seems to me the Texans have two options. take BLTA (Best Left Tackle Available) Sam Baker w/1st pick or trade down & get Jeff Otah late in the 1st.

Pittsburgh OT Jef Otah, 6-6, 340, 5.30, Pittsburgh… Otah is one Pitt Panther who didn’t get away. Certainly is just starting to scratch the surface of some impressive physical potential and has as much upside as any player in the 2008 draft class. Indeed, with the senior OT class thinned out by injuries (Sam Baker of USC and Tony Hills of Texas) and off-field issues (Gosder Cherilus of Boston College), Otah has risen to the 32 spot among senior OTs behind Michigan’s Jake Long. Otah, though, could drop down if nay of as many as a half dozen or so top junior OTs opt to enter this year’s drfat. Otah, whose family immigrated from Nigeria when he was 7, played only one season of high school football and two at junior college before ending up at Pitt. Otah has great size at almost 6-7 and 340 pounds, along with decent quickness and agility. Otah also has long arms and a strong punch, although he likely still needs work in an NFL weight room. Strong drive blocker who realy locks and keeps his feet alive, but needs to work hard on keeping his pads low. http://www.gbnreport.com/scoutsnotebook.htm

OL is a need, what I'm saying is that the numbers say there has been improvement, for a number of reasons since Kubaik came on board & that regardless which route they take it will be addressed by professionals who know excatly what they need :)

threetoedpete
12-12-2007, 12:45 PM
Sounds about right to me beerlover.


unfortunatly the winds are blowing against us.




http://www.gbnreport.com/index.htm


Oher had been thought to be leaning the other way, however, has reportedly been inspired to stay in school for another year with the arrival of former Arkansas coach Houston Nutt who has moved over to take over at Ole Miss. Same story for Oklahoma junior MLB Curtis Lofton, the Big XII defensive player of the year, who also will check out his potential draft status but says he would only likely enter the draft if he were rated as a possible top 10-15 prospect which he concedes isn’t likely.


I don't want any OLT. I want a great OLT.

Insideop
12-12-2007, 11:18 PM
there should be an O-line thread every year, regardless don't you think? I would suggest that production does matter & since Kubiak has taken charge of the draft process there has been a marked improvement with the talent level & draft emphasis towards the O-line.

the Texans have needs everywhere, in Kubiaks first two drafts he has adressed need/depth on the O-Line. 2006 3rd rd. picks Spencer & Winston (both still with the team, Spencers career in question only because of injury) 2007 5th rd pick Brandon Frye (yet to see action) 6th rd. Kasey Studdard (limited action). for the 2008 draft the Texans only have 6 picks, if they follow form two of those picks will go to the offensive line or 1/3 of the draft will be used on O-Line.

obviously a key to building a great O-Line is using higher picks, specificly its that 2nd rd. pick, you know the one's we don't have (07/08) so the natural reaction would be to use the 1st rd. pick this year to finally fill this need , but only if the right one falls into our laps (I don't see Clady or Long slipping out of the top 10 & Oher stays in school). that leaves three prospects to pin your hopes on one a true LT Sam Baker, Gosder Cherilus projects to RT & Jeff Otah who would be a bit of a reach that early.

seems to me the Texans have two options. take BLTA (Best Left Tackle Available) Sam Baker w/1st pick or trade down & get Jeff Otah late in the 1st.

Pittsburgh OT Jef Otah, 6-6, 340, 5.30, Pittsburgh… Otah is one Pitt Panther who didn’t get away. Certainly is just starting to scratch the surface of some impressive physical potential and has as much upside as any player in the 2008 draft class. Indeed, with the senior OT class thinned out by injuries (Sam Baker of USC and Tony Hills of Texas) and off-field issues (Gosder Cherilus of Boston College), Otah has risen to the 32 spot among senior OTs behind Michigan’s Jake Long. Otah, though, could drop down if nay of as many as a half dozen or so top junior OTs opt to enter this year’s drfat. Otah, whose family immigrated from Nigeria when he was 7, played only one season of high school football and two at junior college before ending up at Pitt. Otah has great size at almost 6-7 and 340 pounds, along with decent quickness and agility. Otah also has long arms and a strong punch, although he likely still needs work in an NFL weight room. Strong drive blocker who realy locks and keeps his feet alive, but needs to work hard on keeping his pads low. http://www.gbnreport.com/scoutsnotebook.htm

OL is a need, what I'm saying is that the numbers say there has been improvement, for a number of reasons since Kubaik came on board & that regardless which route they take it will be addressed by professionals who know excatly what they need :)

We got most of the other NFL Nigerians, may as well get this one too. :shades: