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swisher
12-10-2007, 08:59 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but Mario is two sacks away from the franchise record for sacks by a player. Kailee Wong currently holds the record at 15.

brakos82
12-10-2007, 09:01 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but Mario is two sacks away from the franchise record for sacks by a player. Kailee Wong currently holds the record at 15.

Yes it has. :bat:

GuerillaBlack
12-10-2007, 09:06 PM
Mario is only in his second year, too. He is going to be adding on to that record for a while. It sure is fun having this new team and watching these records being formed.

Yankee_In_TX
12-10-2007, 09:06 PM
as TJ said it is this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Konami_Code.png

Except TJ was talking about Mario Bros. This angers me as a seasoned video game geek!

awtysst
12-10-2007, 09:17 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but Mario is two sacks away from the franchise record for sacks by a player. Kailee Wong currently holds the record at 15.

Actually isnt he only 1 away?
Wong:15
Mario last year:4.5+ Mario this year: 9.5=14
15-14=1. IE Mario is one back.

TEXANS84
12-10-2007, 10:36 PM
http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=5356060&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

Funny stuff at the "longhorns board"

austintexanite
12-10-2007, 11:31 PM
http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=5356060&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

Funny stuff at the "longhorns board"

Reminds me of the stuff on orangebloods.com

BigBull17
12-11-2007, 01:08 AM
I am now going to state, for the record, that all the guys who ridiculed us can stop talking now and just let Michael Smith, and Bill Parcells cover our games from now on. They were the only two who didnt blast us into the stone age for passing on the Prince of RB and InVinceable himself.

Maddict5
12-11-2007, 08:30 AM
They were the only two who didnt blast us into the stone age for passing on the Prince of RB .

i call him reggie 'the emperor' bush because of his similiarity to the emperor new clothes fairytale.. ie everybody saying how great he is eventhough if you look at him objectively, you see theres not much there at all

Wolf
12-11-2007, 09:36 AM
Except TJ was talking about Mario Bros. This angers me as a seasoned video game geek!

very true, I couldn't find the whole quote from TJ LOL

Texan_Bill
12-11-2007, 09:51 AM
http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=5356060&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

Funny stuff at the "longhorns board"

Really funny stuff!!! Although, there are many lucid, articulated points made there......... Bwaaahaaaaaahaaaa!!!

TexansFanatic
12-11-2007, 11:37 AM
Actually isnt he only 1 away?
Wong:15
Mario last year:4.5+ Mario this year: 9.5=14
15-14=1. IE Mario is one back.

2 away from sole possession of the record.

swisher
12-11-2007, 03:17 PM
Yes it has. :bat:

Well its worth repeating. I wish the Texans would make a commercial to air during next years draft with Kubiak watching film of Mario Williams saying "This is for all of those Heisman Trophy winners we did not take #1 in 2006."

Mr teX
12-11-2007, 04:02 PM
Well its worth repeating. I wish the Texans would make a commercial to air during next years draft with Kubiak watching film of Mario Williams saying "This is for all of those Heisman Trophy winners we did not take #1 in 2006."

It'd be cooler if it was mario watching film of himself showing sacks against various opponents but beginning with a VY sack & ending with a RB run stuffing tackle. At the end of the commercial the camera zooms in on mario's face & he says "any questions?"

BigBull17
12-11-2007, 04:32 PM
It'd be cooler if it was mario watching film of himself showing sacks against various opponents but beginning with a VY sack & ending with a RB run stuffing tackle. At the end of the commercial the camera zooms in on mario's face & he says "any questions?"

Instead of any questions, maybe "Youre welcome"

Double Barrel
12-11-2007, 04:37 PM
Instead of any questions, maybe "Youre welcome"


That would rock! :thumbup

Mr teX
12-11-2007, 04:45 PM
That would rock! :thumbup

yeppers!

Specnatz
12-11-2007, 04:49 PM
I like it a lot, the "your welcome" fits perfect.


:d:

cuppacoffee
12-11-2007, 05:00 PM
Instead of any questions, maybe "Youre welcome"


Doubt any of the national corps would do this commercial.

But I'd bet my milk money that if a local company did it, then it would only be a matter of time before it was shown on bspn.

OK local businesses, you've been given the idea, run with it.

Maybe mattress Mac can donate a tv to Bush to watch Mario play.


:coffee:

DerekLee1
12-11-2007, 05:01 PM
I like it a lot, the "your welcome" fits perfect.

Ditto. Madden and the NFL wouldn't go for it, but the Texans marketing department could sure do it as a season ticket promo in the spring and summer. Intersperse video of Mario watching the Reggie and Vince commercials with cuts of his sacks, ending on the Reggie one with him saying, "Thanks". Then Mario could just look at the camera and say it.


Nice.

BigBull17
12-11-2007, 05:11 PM
Its a gift, they just come to me...

BigBull17
12-11-2007, 05:18 PM
Ditto. Madden and the NFL wouldn't go for it, but the Texans marketing department could sure do it as a season ticket promo in the spring and summer. Intersperse video of Mario watching the Reggie and Vince commercials with cuts of his sacks, ending on the Reggie one with him saying, "Thanks". Then Mario could just look at the camera and say it.


Nice.

Yeah, cause its all fun a nd games when its the "lowly" Texans. God forbid you make fun of Barry Sayers...

TEXANS84
12-11-2007, 06:54 PM
Great writeup by Peter King on Mario online right now:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/12/11/mmqbte/index.html

Lucky
12-11-2007, 07:00 PM
From the Peter King piece linked above:
Vindication should be Charley Casserly's. It's still early, and we can't judge the top of the 2006 draft after 1 3/4 seasons, but the last major decision Casserly made before being nudged into the CBS NFL Today studio show (where, by the way, he's doing a thorough, cool and insightful job) has turned out to be brilliant.
This was not Charley Casserly's pick. I don't care how often he takes credit for it. And I don't know if it was actually Kubiak's or McNair's pick. But, there's no freakin' way that a lame duck GM gets to make the call on a $54 million investment.

austintexanite
12-11-2007, 07:03 PM
Great writeup by Peter King on Mario online right now:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/12/11/mmqbte/index.html

Just read that before I got here and was going to post it, luckily I looked here so there wouldn't be another thread about it. It's a good read, you guys should also check out the recovery of Kevin Everitt. Inspiration for anyone who is having a rough patch at any moment of their life.

Runner
12-11-2007, 07:36 PM
This was not Charley Casserly's pick. I don't care how often he takes credit for it. And I don't know if it was actually Kubiak's or McNair's pick. But, there's no freakin' way that a lame duck GM gets to make the call on a $54 million investment.

When he was playing poorly it was a Casserly pick, at least on this board. No way Kubiak would have done it! Opinion sways with the wind...

:)

Specnatz
12-11-2007, 08:18 PM
When he was playing poorly it was a Casserly pick, at least on this board. No way Kubiak would have done it! Opinion sways with the wind...

:)

I always thought it was a Kubiak pick and the YKW was Mcnair but what the heck do I know I was not in on any of the meetings.

Runner
12-11-2007, 08:33 PM
I always thought it was a Kubiak pick and the YKW was Mcnair but what the heck do I know I was not in on any of the meetings.

I always thought it was a Kubiak pick too. He had a lot of control when he got here. I always noticed Casserly getting bashed for Mario while Kubiak got praised for Demeco, Winston, Spencer, Daniels, etc.

But you're right - we don't know. Maybe they were all Casserly picks. :shocked

El cabezon
12-11-2007, 08:36 PM
From the Peter King piece linked above:

This was not Charley Casserly's pick. I don't care how often he takes credit for it. And I don't know if it was actually Kubiak's or McNair's pick. But, there's no freakin' way that a lame duck GM gets to make the call on a $54 million investment.

Regardless of what you think this was Charley Casserly's pick.

Runner
12-11-2007, 08:37 PM
Regardless of what you think this was Charley Casserly's pick.

Excellent reasoning. :sarcasm:

El cabezon
12-11-2007, 08:52 PM
Excellent reasoning. :sarcasm:

In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.

run-david-run
12-11-2007, 08:57 PM
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.

Just based on the fact the Mario, along with most every other player we drafted that year, has turned out to be a good/great player, I'm going to assume CC was nowhere near the draft room. Check past draft history for examples/depression.

El cabezon
12-11-2007, 09:01 PM
Just based on the fact the Mario, along with most every other player we drafted that year, has turned out to be a good/great player, I'm going to assume CC was nowhere near the draft room. Check past draft history for examples/depression.

Didn't he drafted a cornerback while he was at Washington, I forgot his name but he now plays for Denver.

Runner
12-11-2007, 09:04 PM
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.

Well said.


Intense anyway.

Fox
12-11-2007, 09:19 PM
Didn't Kubiak say that the offensive and defensive staffs held separate meetings, both to decide which player the team should draft first overall, and both sides came back Mario? Isn't it possible, and likely for that matter, that Kubiak and Casserly both wanted to choose Mario? Trying to say it was Casserly's more than Kubiak's choice and vice versa seems like an exercise in futility, IMO.

Specnatz
12-11-2007, 09:22 PM
I always thought it was a Kubiak pick too. He had a lot of control when he got here. I always noticed Casserly getting bashed for Mario while Kubiak got praised for Demeco, Winston, Spencer, Daniels, etc.

But you're right - we don't know. Maybe they were all Casserly picks. :shocked

I will give credit where it is due, from what I recall Kubiak himself said daniels was a CC pick, I never heard him say that about any other guys drafted. I do not recall where I saw it at or the link I am sure it was posted on here more than once and maybe that is where I read it, not sure.

Ryans I thought was one of the Assistance. Geez I wish that kind of info could be had, like in baseball. A player is scouted and or signed (especially non-drafted guys) by a certain person it is always listed.

Runner
12-11-2007, 09:36 PM
I will give credit where it is due, from what I recall Kubiak himself said daniels was a CC pick, I never heard him say that about any other guys drafted. I do not recall where I saw it at or the link I am sure it was posted on here more than once and maybe that is where I read it, not sure.

Ryans I thought was one of the Assistance. Geez I wish that kind of info could be had, like in baseball. A player is scouted and or signed (especially non-drafted guys) by a certain person it is always listed.

I think I did hear that Casserly recommended Daniels now that you mention it. It must have been in the press - a Kubiak quote.

DeMeco was highly touted by the linebackers coach, Johnny Holland.

I think Kubiak was responsible for pulling the trigger on them though. That's all good - listen to advice and make your decision.

HJam72
12-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Maybe the real problem was Capers and our old DC.

Even so, I'm glad to have Rick Smith.

Lucky
12-11-2007, 09:41 PM
Regardless of what you think this was Charley Casserly's pick.

I stand corrected. Or roll on the floor, laughing. Something like that.

HJam72
12-11-2007, 09:42 PM
Lucky is standing on the floor and rolling. :specnatz:

markn
12-11-2007, 10:42 PM
I don't buy into this "now Mario rocks he must have been a Kubiak pick" nonsense. Casserly was a below average GM, but not every move he made was a disaster and I don't see what's wrong with acknowledging his successes. For every P-Buc and Babin, there's a Johnson and a Robinson. The difference between a good GM and a bad is quite fine, and Rick Smith's success rate so far isn't monumentally better than CC's.

I guess it makes people feel comfortable thinking that every bad thing that happened to the Texans can be blamed on previous management and now that there's a new regime in town everything will be just fine. The world doesn't work that way, there are usually many contributing factors and shades of gray involved. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Wolf
12-11-2007, 10:49 PM
not that my opinion or theory means anything.

IMO, Casserly was kept through the draft because, why would a team release a lame duck GM that could possibly be picked up by another team as a "consultant" before the draft..It would make no sense. most could argue that it would be wrong, but say the Saints or Titans (who picked closely behind the Texans)picked him up for his "input".. that would be "corporate" suicide before a "strategy" session(aka draft), no matter what anyone would say, it would give an edge to the team that drafted just behind the Texans and also know what they were thinking about players and how they would rate them

Casserly might have had input as a lame duck GM , but I don't think much because Kubiak, and Smith and such were changing schemes(wouldn't suprise me if Sherman had alot of say)... and those coaches knew what they wanted


of course my opinion means not much

Specnatz
12-11-2007, 10:52 PM
I don't buy into this "now Mario rocks he must have been a Kubiak pick" nonsense. Casserly was a below average GM, but not every move he made was a disaster and I don't see what's wrong with acknowledging his successes. For every P-Buc and Babin, there's a Johnson and a Robinson. The difference between a good GM and a bad is quite fine, and Rick Smith's success rate so far isn't monumentally better than CC's.

I guess it makes people feel comfortable thinking that every bad thing that happened to the Texans can be blamed on previous management and now that there's a new regime in town everything will be just fine. The world doesn't work that way, there are usually many contributing factors and shades of gray involved. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right, when do you want your F'n parade down S. Bartel Dr? CC and the screw up draft factory did nothing to help this team move out of expansion mode.

Runner
12-11-2007, 11:00 PM
OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right,

I disagree with this. You also have to consider those players who may have been good that the coaches messed up.

Lucky
12-11-2007, 11:04 PM
IMO, Casserly was kept through the draft because, why would a team release a lame duck GM that could possibly be picked up by another team as a "consultant" before the draft...
That's a good point. My thought was that Denver wouldn't let Rick Smith leave until after the draft (probably along similar rationale). Plus, Casserly had hired all the scouts and put the system in place. Kubiak probably needed help with with the process and Casserly had all of the contacts.

Casserly might have had input as a lame duck GM , but I don't think much because Kubiak, and Smith and such were changing schemes(wouldn't suprise me if Sherman had alot of say)... and those coaches knew what they wanted
And that's pretty much the system Casserly had with Capers & staff. They would tell Casserly who they wanted, and Casserly would find a way to get them (remember the '03 draft littered with Senior Bowlers the Texans coached?). You can't blame Casserly for drafting Babin or trading for P-Bust. Just the cost it took to acquire them.

markn
12-11-2007, 11:06 PM
OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right, when do you want your F'n parade down S. Bartel Dr? CC and the screw up draft factory did nothing to help this team move out of expansion mode.

Well off the top of my head, Gaffney, Pitts, Weary, White, D Davis, Johnson, Robinson, TJ, Mathis, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Winston were all reasonable draft picks.

Look, I'm not especially defending Casserly - I'm glad he's gone, I just think people should fess up and admit he got a few right.

disaacks3
12-11-2007, 11:40 PM
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks. Spoken like a true "Big Head"...lol

Kudos for standing your ground...even if it's shaky and prone to volcanic activity.

eriadoc
12-12-2007, 01:19 AM
Well off the top of my head, Gaffney, Pitts, Weary, White, D Davis, Johnson, Robinson, TJ, Mathis, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Winston were all reasonable draft picks.

Look, I'm not especially defending Casserly - I'm glad he's gone, I just think people should fess up and admit he got a few right.

I still contend that coaching screwed up some pretty decent prospects during the C&C years. Casserly made some reasonable picks, as you pointed out. However, he did two very critical things wrong. First, he overpaid players by a large margin. Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood, etc. Second, when he screwed up a deal, it wasn't by a little. The Buchanon deal was incompetent, by any measure. The Babin deal was a debacle. Even if Babin had gone to Pro Bowls here, he wouldn't have lived up to the cost of three picks on a developing team.

Casserly has a seat at the head of the table for who screwed this team up, but that case is sometimes slightly overstated by the message board fans.

76Texan
12-12-2007, 03:10 AM
If we're gonna hold somebody accountable for his mistakes, at least we should attempt to consider credit where it's due. :shades:

threetoedpete
12-12-2007, 09:32 AM
I think I did hear that Casserly recommended Daniels now that you mention it. It must have been in the press - a Kubiak quote.

DeMeco was highly touted by the linebackers coach, Johnny Holland.

I think Kubiak was responsible for pulling the trigger on them though. That's all good - listen to advice and make your decision.


agreed: You're never going to know for sure...my two cents...Charley Casserly was a "yes" guy...he hunted up the tallent, administered the scouts, told he coches their weaknesse and strengths, options and then pulled he trigger if the coach gave the ok.
He doesn't make waves. He's a team guy. There was a whole lot of reachin' the first five years...I do not believe it was all CC's doing as so many on the board believe. There were many fingers in that dung pie. We saw one last sunday...a 4-3 develppemental guy chosen by at the time a 3-4 team...makes you wonder. It was only a seventh rounder but the guy has found himself apparently.

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0021332





http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Blazinhot54/2006/05/10/Charlie_Casserly_Texans_GM_Resigns
http://blog.kir.com/archives/002735.asp


Several of my friend's observations on specific picks were also quite interesting. For example, on Jason Babin (LB 2004 first round), Seth Wand (OT 2003 third round) and Travis Johnson (DL 2005) -- all of whom are often cited as Casserly "bust" picks -- my friend disagreed and characterized each of them as decent picks, at least at this point in the evaluation process.

"Babin started and played reasonably well as a rookie, and then he has been injured while learning a new system in his second season," my friend noted. "He may not be a star, but he can still develop into a solid NFL starter."

As for Wand, my friend observed: "He's a small college player who has been pushed too fast at this level. That doesn't mean he won't eventually become at least an average NFL player."

With regard to Johnson, my friend pointed out that his inconsistent play this season is at least partly attributable to being thrown into a poorly-organized defensive unit that is just now adjusting to the change from the 4-3 to the 3-4 defense. "He's not Reggie White," my friend chuckled. "But it's way too early to characterize him as a bust."

So, why don't the Texans have enough good players? "Well, I haven't analyzed Casserly's free agent and trade transactions, so those certainly could have something to do with that," observed my friend. "But remember, quality depth is built up over time and the Texans are still a young franchise. Wand is a good example. He was a decent pick, but he is a project and thus, might not have been the best fit for a team such as the Texans that needs players who can play at the NFL-level as soon as possible."

markn
12-12-2007, 09:50 AM
I still contend that coaching screwed up some pretty decent prospects during the C&C years. Casserly made some reasonable picks, as you pointed out. However, he did two very critical things wrong. First, he overpaid players by a large margin. Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood, etc. Second, when he screwed up a deal, it wasn't by a little. The Buchanon deal was incompetent, by any measure. The Babin deal was a debacle. Even if Babin had gone to Pro Bowls here, he wouldn't have lived up to the cost of three picks on a developing team.

Casserly has a seat at the head of the table for who screwed this team up, but that case is sometimes slightly overstated by the message board fans.

Can't argue with any of that.

markn
12-12-2007, 09:55 AM
It was only a seventh rounder but the guy has found himself apparently.

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0021332


Indeed. White and Gaffney are two prime examples of players drafted by CC who the coaching staff couldn't get to work out in Houston. Gaffney is now making match winning catches for the best team in NFL history and White is putting up the same kind of numbers as Mario.

Casserly made some huge mistakes, but this assumption that he had an inverse Midas touch (everything he touches turn to s...) simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

No one had any trouble pointing the finger at Casserly when it looked like MW was a bust, but now he's putting in good displays people are trying to re-write history.

El cabezon
12-12-2007, 11:42 AM
Just based on the fact the Mario, along with most every other player we drafted that year, has turned out to be a good/great player, I'm going to assume CC was nowhere near the draft room. Check past draft history for examples/depression.

I know that CC made mistakes, can name me a GM that has not made any mistakes? Some of you guys are just looking for an excuse to bad mouth anybody, and I mean anybody. You got to stop being so darn negative and need to learn to enjoy life.

dalemurphy
12-12-2007, 11:54 AM
OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right, when do you want your F'n parade down S. Bartel Dr? CC and the screw up draft factory did nothing to help this team move out of expansion mode.


Let's see:

Gaffney
C. Pitts
Fred Weary
DFaggins (6th round)
AJohnson
Dom. Davis (4th round)
DRobinson
Travis Johnson
Mario
D.Ryans
Winston
CSpencer
ODaniels (4th round)
Jerome Mathis (4th round)

those are some good picks off the top of my head. One can criticize Casserly without using hyperbole. It just makes you look ignorant.

Reality is that Casserly had a very successful draft working with a good head coach (Kubiak). However, he and Capers were unable to find any success together- moves like the one for Babin and Buchanan were attempts to get the guy that Capers wanted. Personally, I think their communication and understand of one another was part of the problem. Furthermore, I don't think Casserly comprehended the 3-4 defense.

TexansLucky13
12-12-2007, 12:04 PM
To get this discussion back on track....

I :heart: Mario Williams

:hide: :tease:

Specnatz
12-12-2007, 12:13 PM
I am sorry I did not put the sarcsm smiley there, I figured the whole parade might be a give away.

Yeas, I know CC picked more than just two guys who did actually play decent and were not total suckage. But my premis still stands that he did more harm than he did good. I will not include anyone but Daniels from the 2006 draft because he was a lame duck GM.

Now one name I noticed people listing is Travis Johnson, he has gotten called a bost more often than I could possibly count and now he is listed as a good player casserly picked? WTF is up with that.

Murphy you listed Faggins? Do you want anyone to take you seriously?

Vinny
12-12-2007, 12:21 PM
Where is Vinny, Second honeymoon and Apple and a few others that would not say anything nice about his play where are they now.

I defended him a few times and got plastered yet when he has a good game those same individuals who trash him when he has some bad plays are no where to be seen.

If you are going to trash any player who has a bad game, when he has a good game you need to suck it up and say he played well. That is for any player. Be objective.




P.S. Dream i know the titans won but put that in your pipe and smoke it or stick it I could careless which.I donno why you would lump me in with pure haters other than the fact that you dog me to your buddies since you are pretty vocal about not liking me (eh, word travels fast). I just post what I see and I don't tell you guys what you want to hear....you don't like that but hey, there isn't any fun in objective observation. I haven't been around much lately but when he has played well I've commented on it (http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=71810&postcount=14). Heck, I got behind the pick early on (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6139) and was told I wasn't credible...so I stopped posting at HPF. When I post my football observations they are real and I don't sugar coat them and will call a spade a spade. When Mario played poorly early on I said so....but then again, I just comment on what I see and Mario playing well is very important to our sucess. Have you noticed that we lose alot when our top guys don't play well? Mario had a great game and we beat the Bucs last week...two plus two stuff.

Specnatz
12-12-2007, 12:41 PM
I donno why you would lump me in with pure haters other than the fact that you dog me to your buddies since you are pretty vocal about not liking me (eh, word travels fast). I just post what I see and I don't tell you guys what you want to hear....you don't like that but hey, there isn't any fun in objective observation. I haven't been around much lately but when he has played well I've commented on it (http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=71810&postcount=14). Heck, I got behind the pick early on (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6139) and was told I wasn't credible...so I stopped posting at HPF. When I post my football observations they are real and I don't sugar coat them and will call a spade a spade. When Mario played poorly early on I said so....but then again, I just comment on what I see and Mario playing well is very important to our sucess. Have you noticed that we lose alot when our top guys don't play well? Mario had a great game and we beat the Bucs last week...two plus two stuff.

My exact quote was we do not get along because of my comment regarding VY fans. In fact I have never cussed you or said anything really hateful. In fact I also said I respect your opinion in regards to a lot of football discussions, but some people when they talk forget to say everything and only ad what they want to cause issues on a board. Not sure whom you have been talking to but all you have to do is ask me and I would be honest.

You have trashed Mario very bad and when Kubiak said he was the most consistant defensive lineman you trashed that comment as well. I never said any of the critism was not deserved, but it was like he was singled out. Weaver has been the worst defensive player on the team but it was all Marios fault, at least that is how it appeared to me.

I stand by my comment about calling those that have bashed him out. Now granted, I guess in hindsight, I should have not lumped you in with true haters and that may have appeared as I was calling you a true hater which I did not mean to do.

Vinny
12-12-2007, 12:44 PM
My exact quote was we do not get along because of my comment regarding VY fans. In fact I have never cussed you or said anything really hateful. In fact I also said I respect your opinion in regards to a lot of football discussions, but some people when they talk forget to say everything and only ad what they want to cause issues on a board. Not sure whom you have been talking to but all you have to do is ask me and I would be honest.

You have trashed Mario very bad and when Kubiak said he was the most consistant defensive lineman you trashed that comment as well. I never said any of the critism was not deserved, but it was like he was singled out. Weaver has been the worst defensive player on the team but it was all Marios fault, at least that is how it appeared to me.

I stand by my comment about calling those that have bashed him out. Now granted, I guess in hindsight, I should have not lumped you in with true haters and that may have appeared as I was calling you a true hater which I did not mean to do.
I’ve heard what you have said about me. I told you I didn’t like you calling me a jock sniffer and I told you what I thought of you privately. Since you have an axe to grind with me just leave me out of your posts and I'll do the same for you.

Specnatz
12-12-2007, 12:54 PM
I’ve heard what you have said about me. I told you I didn’t like you calling me a jock sniffer and I told you what I thought of you privately. Since you have an axe to grind with me just leave me out of your posts and I'll do the same for you.

I never called you a jock sniffer, EVER. When I used the term jocksniffer it was in regards to certain VY fans who thinks he walks on water and was referring to the people here in Austin. I tried to explain that to you. You have for the most part been objective about VY, I know you respect his game and I complimented you on that. As far as axe to grind, nope not at all. Not with anyone.

run-david-run
12-12-2007, 12:54 PM
I know that CC made mistakes, can name me a GM that has not made any mistakes? Some of you guys are just looking for an excuse to bad mouth anybody, and I mean anybody. You got to stop being so darn negative and need to learn to enjoy life.

He was fired for a reason. GM is a position with very low turnover, when someone gets the can, its because they did a bad job for an extended period of time. Everyone is going to find some diamonds in the rough and going to draft some high round busts. However, CC got almost nothing from the 2nd and 3rd round picks. 5 years into our existance, about 2/3 of our draft picks were no longer on the team. That is inexcusable and a direct reflection of the coaching staff and GM, as a result they have been replaced. Its pretty simple.

In regards to Mario: why would you let a person who is about to be fired for a history of bad decisions make the biggest decision in your franchise's history? I'm sure he had input, but there is no way that the final decision came down to him.

Texan_Bill
12-12-2007, 01:00 PM
I never called you a jock sniffer, EVER. When I used the term jocksniffer it was in regards to certain VY fans who thinks he walks on water and was referring to the people here in Austin. I tried to explain that to you. You have for the most part been objective about VY, I know you respect his game and I complimented you on that. As far as axe to grind, nope not at all. Not with anyone.

But he does!!! He does!!!!

************************************************** *

I've supported Mario from the beginning BUT, he has deserved criticism and harsh criticism - at times. He played well at the beginning of the season, and has played well the last couple of games. In between those games he disappeared for a little while.

Specnatz
12-12-2007, 01:07 PM
But he does!!! He does!!!!

************************************************** *

I've supported Mario from the beginning BUT, he has deserved criticism and harsh criticism - at times. He played well at the beginning of the season, and has played well the last couple of games. In between those games he disappeared for a little while.

That critism was fine, heck i have critism for some of his play, that is not what I was referring to. It was he does nothing right and the total lambasting him saying the prise Kubiak gave him by saying he was the most consistant player along the line was not warrented when everything showed that priase was. Now that does not mean he did not need to improve.

Okoye has disapeared since about week 9, TJ the most inconsistant player and Weaver is non-exsistant. I guess you could say Weaver is the most consistant because he plays terrible every week.

Texan_Bill
12-12-2007, 01:17 PM
That critism was fine, heck i have critism for some of his play, that is not what I was referring to. It was he does nothing right and the total lambasting him saying the prise Kubiak gave him by saying he was the most consistant player along the line was not warrented when everything showed that priase was. Now that does not mean he did not need to improve.

Okoye has disapeared since about week 9, TJ the most inconsistant player and Weaver is non-exsistant. I guess you could say Weaver is the most consistant because he plays terrible every week.

Context... Context my man!!

Listen, I like Kubiak and I have supported Mario - but there were times where I had to roll my eyes about Kubes' comments. It was Kubiaks attempt to mitigate some of the negative pub surrounding Mario since the draft. And in doing so, I think he may have overcompensated.

I expected Okoye to dissappear. Not making excuses but rookies hit walls. I will say that I was impressed with how he came out of the gate, and it gives him a lot to build on in his second year.

HoustonFrog
12-12-2007, 01:26 PM
My exact quote was we do not get along because of my comment regarding VY fans. In fact I have never cussed you or said anything really hateful. In fact I also said I respect your opinion in regards to a lot of football discussions, but some people when they talk forget to say everything and only ad what they want to cause issues on a board. Not sure whom you have been talking to but all you have to do is ask me and I would be honest.

You have trashed Mario very bad and when Kubiak said he was the most consistant defensive lineman you trashed that comment as well. I never said any of the critism was not deserved, but it was like he was singled out. Weaver has been the worst defensive player on the team but it was all Marios fault, at least that is how it appeared to me.

I stand by my comment about calling those that have bashed him out. Now granted, I guess in hindsight, I should have not lumped you in with true haters and that may have appeared as I was calling you a true hater which I did not mean to do.

Because Kubes was FOS when he was talking about him earlier in the season and was basiically covering for his player because he was taking alot of heat. It is OK to see a player struggle and say.."the guy is horrible" and then appreciate it when he finally gets it. I mean it happens.

I know that CC made mistakes, can name me a GM that has not made any mistakes? Some of you guys are just looking for an excuse to bad mouth anybody, and I mean anybody. You got to stop being so darn negative and need to learn to enjoy life.

Dear Lord, do we really have to go through his drafts and trades again?

Specnatz
12-12-2007, 01:26 PM
Context... Context my man!!

Listen, I like Kubiak and I have supported Mario - but there were times where I had to roll my eyes about Kubes' comments. It was Kubiaks attempt to mitigate some of the negative pub surrounding Mario since the draft. And in doing so, I think he may have overcompensated.

I expected Okoye to dissappear. Not making excuses but rookies hit walls. I will say that I was impressed with how he came out of the gate, and it gives him a lot to build on in his second year.

That I can understand. :d:


Can he also please stop taping the podeum. Geez. I do not think he has ever rematched his press conferance.

HoustonFrog
12-12-2007, 01:33 PM
Let's see:

Gaffney
C. Pitts
Fred Weary
DFaggins (6th round)
AJohnson
Dom. Davis (4th round)
DRobinson
Travis Johnson
Mario
D.Ryans
Winston
CSpencer
ODaniels (4th round)
Jerome Mathis (4th round)

those are some good picks off the top of my head. One can criticize Casserly without using hyperbole. It just makes you look ignorant.

Reality is that Casserly had a very successful draft working with a good head coach (Kubiak). However, he and Capers were unable to find any success together- moves like the one for Babin and Buchanan were attempts to get the guy that Capers wanted. Personally, I think their communication and understand of one another was part of the problem. Furthermore, I don't think Casserly comprehended the 3-4 defense.

Really, you going to stick with all those guys as legit "good" NFL players? Casserly was a horrible GM that set us back with picks like Ragone. Its funny that he is in this thread because wasn't the rumor that he wanted to announce that Bush was our pick but Reeves had to rein him in so as not to ruin trade value, etc.?How good can a guy be when we have to hire a GM babysitter for him?

Maddict5
12-12-2007, 02:56 PM
I donno why you would lump me in with pure haters other than the fact that you dog me to your buddies since you are pretty vocal about not liking me (eh, word travels fast). I just post what I see and I don't tell you guys what you want to hear....you don't like that but hey, there isn't any fun in objective observation. I haven't been around much lately but when he has played well I've commented on it (http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=71810&postcount=14). Heck, I got behind the pick early on (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6139) and was told I wasn't credible...so I stopped posting at HPF. When I post my football observations they are real and I don't sugar coat them and will call a spade a spade. When Mario played poorly early on I said so....but then again, I just comment on what I see and Mario playing well is very important to our sucess. Have you noticed that we lose alot when our top guys don't play well? Mario had a great game and we beat the Bucs last week...two plus two stuff.

i have no problem with alot of the stuff you said, but you did go through a phase a couple of weeks back where you used to trash mario just because a team would run to his side... it seemed hyper-critical

Vinny
12-12-2007, 03:05 PM
i have no problem with alot of the stuff you said, but you did go through a phase a couple of weeks back where you used to trash mario just because a team would run to his side... it seemed hyper-critical I think "hyper-critical" is a bit of an overstatement. I didn't post much...and most of it centered on my being disappointed in his play. I never called him a bust or droned on and on about him being the wrong pick. I never waxed on and on about how we should have taken Young or anyone else....just made a few comments about how I was really dissapointed in his play at times when I thought we needed our elite players to pick it up a notch. Hell, even Kubiak said as much last week when he stated that he had a talk with his better players stepping up their games in order for this team to improve. In case you haven't noticed, we win games when our elite players play like elite players. When they don't, we tend to lose. Perhaps you just are more ok with losing than I am or you just haven't connected those dots.

Double Barrel
12-12-2007, 04:58 PM
I've supported Mario from the beginning BUT, he has deserved criticism and harsh criticism - at times. He played well at the beginning of the season, and has played well the last couple of games. In between those games he disappeared for a little while.

This is my take, as well. I was on board with picking Mario the night before the 2006 draft, as evidenced in the board's history. Although I tended to be a D'Brick or AJ Hawk fan back then, I was cool with picking a defensive guy, too.

Since then, I've openly expressed being disappointed by certain aspects of his game. I understand the nature of the position is a 2-3 year learning curve, so I've always been patient about it, but losing tends to magnify the frustration. I care about our players and have high expectations for them. It's only human to be down from time to time, especially after six seasons of suck. But that doesn't mean I hate the pick or ever thought he was a 'bust'. Far from it.

I think Vinny comes from the same angle. No homer glasses but still hope for our hometown players, countered with realistic analysis of the product on the field. It doesn't require drinking koolaide or hatorade to be a good football fan.

dalemurphy
12-12-2007, 05:44 PM
Really, you going to stick with all those guys as legit "good" NFL players? Casserly was a horrible GM that set us back with picks like Ragone. Its funny that he is in this thread because wasn't the rumor that he wanted to announce that Bush was our pick but Reeves had to rein him in so as not to ruin trade value, etc.?How good can a guy be when we have to hire a GM babysitter for him?

I'm not crazy. I'm not arguing that Casserly was a good GM. I'm just of the opinion that the GM and Head Coach were too independent. I don't think either had much say on the other's hiring. Further, they never got on the sam page. Also, I think Capers' entire winning formula was highly flawed. I think it's the combination of those two that were the downfall. Casserly, I believe is an adequate talent evaluator and I suggest looking at the '06 draft as evidence of that.

Having said that, he made some horrible decisions, overpaid for almost every free agent, overpaid for trades, was totally uninspiring, and I'm thrilled that Rick Smith is here and he is gone!

Rex King
12-12-2007, 06:21 PM
Gotta give credit where it's due. Casserly was pushing for Mario from the start, but Kubiak came to the same decision:

http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060501/734742-p.html

(got the link from another board)

Reading the link you posted, Vinny, you're right. Casserly never looked like he had a plan. Drew Henson in the 6th, OK, but Dave Ragone in the 3rd as well? But some of this may have been on Capers. Casserly said something to the effect that Kubes was excellent at communicating what specific type of player he needed/wanted, implying Capers had not been.

threetoedpete
12-12-2007, 06:28 PM
This is my take, as well. I was on board with picking Mario the night before the 2006 draft, as evidenced in the board's history. Although I tended to be a D'Brick or AJ Hawk fan back then, I was cool with picking a defensive guy, too.

Since then, I've openly expressed being disappointed by certain aspects of his game. I understand the nature of the position is a 2-3 year learning curve, so I've always been patient about it, but losing tends to magnify the frustration. I care about our players and have high expectations for them. It's only human to be down from time to time, especially after six seasons of suck. But that doesn't mean I hate the pick or ever thought he was a 'bust'. Far from it.

I think Vinny comes from the same angle. No homer glasses but still hope for our hometown players, countered with realistic analysis of the product on the field. It doesn't require drinking koolaide or hatorade to be a good football fan.



yeah I'll come out of the closet. You go look at my posts now and I was posting the same thing in 05. I wanted D'brickasaw in the worst way. All the negitive things said bout Mario were true. But what was also true was the guy was a 299 pound, 4.66 speed phenomon. Those guys don't grow on trees either. Took some coaching up and some time but he is getting it. What I have never wavered on was my expecttions for Vincent. Never. He i doing exactly what I thought he would do. Doesn't make him a bad player. But he was far from polished coming out. Might be he will excede Mario we'll see. I'm very copmfortable with how everything has turned out so far.

tulexan
12-12-2007, 06:35 PM
Gotta give credit where it's due. Casserly was pushing for Mario from the start, but Kubiak came to the same decision:

http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060501/734742-p.html

(got the link from another board)

Reading the link you posted, Vinny, you're right. Casserly never looked like he had a plan. Drew Henson in the 6th, OK, but Dave Ragone in the 3rd as well? But some of this may have been on Capers. Casserly said something to the effect that Kubes was excellent at communicating what specific type of player he needed/wanted, implying Capers had not been.

Really good read. I think this also dispels a lot of rumors about how the decision was made (i.e. Bush was being unreasonable and McNair was pissed about the scandal).

Maddict5
12-13-2007, 01:27 PM
I think "hyper-critical" is a bit of an overstatement. I didn't post much...and most of it centered on my being disappointed in his play. I never called him a bust or droned on and on about him being the wrong pick. I never waxed on and on about how we should have taken Young or anyone else....just made a few comments about how I was really dissapointed in his play at times when I thought we needed our elite players to pick it up a notch. Hell, even Kubiak said as much last week when he stated that he had a talk with his better players stepping up their games in order for this team to improve. In case you haven't noticed, we win games when our elite players play like elite players. When they don't, we tend to lose. Perhaps you just are more ok with losing than I am or you just haven't connected those dots.


yeah sure... that must be it :gun:

austintexanite
12-13-2007, 03:39 PM
That sportingnews article is a great read. Everyone should check it out.

TexansSeminole
12-13-2007, 05:29 PM
Gotta give credit where it's due. Casserly was pushing for Mario from the start, but Kubiak came to the same decision:

http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060501/734742-p.html

(got the link from another board)


Possibly the best quote from the article:

A few weeks earlier, an interviewer asked Casserly whether he wanted to be the next Stu Inman, the Trail Blazers' general manager who passed up Michael Jordan for Sam Bowie.

"Who says (Bush) is Michael Jordan?" replied Casserly. Now Casserly leans back in his chair. "People can judge this short term," he says. "But the smart ones will wait a few years. Check back with me then."

b0ng
12-13-2007, 10:51 PM
I just have to say. Mario. Williams. Oh My God.

wicked_wayz
12-13-2007, 10:56 PM
I just have to say. Mario. Williams. Oh My God.

wha he said

Khari
12-13-2007, 11:00 PM
i :heart: mario

kiwitexansfan
12-13-2007, 11:11 PM
I think we just saw Mario's coming out party.... Prime TV, all eyes on him, 3.5 sacks.... hope he gets a trip to Honolulu and now only 0.5 sacks off the league lead.

gg no re
12-13-2007, 11:12 PM
I missed his performance because my sister wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy and the subsequent spinoff with Addison.

gtexan02
12-13-2007, 11:14 PM
WOWOWOWOWOW who the hell cares who drafted him, all that matters is he is a TEXAN and he is AMAZING! Im jumping on the bandwagon with a BIG ol' platter of crow and big ol' Im sorry Mario! Im sure glad you're here!

GuerillaBlack
12-13-2007, 11:15 PM
Mario is a ****ing beast.

TexanSam
12-13-2007, 11:16 PM
I liked his hula dance when he got his 3rd sack! Man I hope he makes it too Hawaii!!

TexansLucky13
12-13-2007, 11:17 PM
All doubters have been put to shame.

Mario has almost as many sacks as VY has interceptions.... and that is REALLY saying something. Way to go!

Nawzer
12-13-2007, 11:17 PM
I've said this last year and this year that Mario Williams is not the reason the Texans weren't winning more games. We just weren't a good team. But when we do start winning more games you can bet Mario Williams will be one of the main reasons why. We are witnessing the birth of a superstar right in front of our eyes. Enjoy the ride people it's going to be a blast!

TheIronDuke
12-13-2007, 11:21 PM
Mario just jokingly punched Chuck Norris in his arm after the game and Chuck Norris blew up into a thousand pieces.

Then Mario re-constructed the pieces of Chuck Norris and invented a time machine and reversed global warming and killed Osama bin Laden in the process.

Mario Williams is the man.

run-david-run
12-13-2007, 11:23 PM
God I love being right about stuff like this, almost as much as seeing Mario tear up opposing offenses. I think the fan vote ended 2 days ago (of course), but I'm sure Mario will get voted in by players/coaches or if someone has an injury.

Too bad AJ was hurt or we could have had 2 Texans as All-Pros, possibly.

New_Texans
12-13-2007, 11:29 PM
All doubters have been put to shame.

Mario has almost as many sacks as VY has interceptions.... and that is REALLY saying something. Way to go!


Lets put it this way, mario almost has 2 times as many sacks as vince has touchdowns (passing).


Vince who?

HoustonFrog
12-13-2007, 11:31 PM
Great play and something that I'm excited to watch. It makes the secondary and everyone else better.

TexanSam
12-13-2007, 11:33 PM
He seemed kinda mad at the end of the game that he couldn't get another sack

Brandon420tx
12-13-2007, 11:33 PM
He seemed kinda mad at the end of the game that he couldn't get another sack

You think so too? :doot:

run-david-run
12-13-2007, 11:34 PM
You think so too? :doot:

After the 4th one, he had this hillarious exchange with Kalu over who's sack it was. Who knew football could be fun as a fan?

TexansFanatic
12-13-2007, 11:39 PM
Did that really just happen? YES!!!

Mario Williams. The best player taken in the 2006 draft. Period.

TexanSam
12-13-2007, 11:43 PM
Did that really just happen? YES!!!

Mario Williams. The best player taken in the 2006 draft. Period.

Well...DeMeco might have a say in that :doot:

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2007, 11:48 PM
Well...DeMeco might have a say in that :doot:

OK ... we now have a monster draft in 2006 .

Mario
Demeco
Hopefully Spencer / Winston
Owens
Walter for a 7th

TexansLucky13
12-13-2007, 11:50 PM
OK ... we now have a monster draft in 2006 .

Mario
Demeco
Hopefully Spencer / Winston
Owens
Walter for a 7th

Hell yes.

MEGA SWATT
12-13-2007, 11:51 PM
MARIO WILLIAMS IS KING:splits:

Hooston Texan
12-14-2007, 12:01 AM
And with that, the doubters crawled away.

I say enough about deciding what Casserly did and did not do. Let's look instead at what the Texans (be it Casserly, Smith or Kubes) did with their last two drafts:

2006:
1: Mario--'nuff said.
2: Demeco--An even better pick than Mario
3: Spencer--had a good start to solving LT before the freak injury
3: Winston--looks like a fixture at RT
4: Daniels--fumbling aside, a great value pick
Then Lundy (6) and Anderson (7)--some contributions there, too.

2007:
1: Okoye--hit the wall hard, but what upside
3: Jones--even though he's struggled, we all saw what he's capable of
4: Bennett--looks like we might just have a CB here
Too soon to tell on the others.

Of our last 8 picks in the first four rounds, we've got 5 solid-to-great starters, two with real potential and one who looked lke the answer at LT before his injury. That's a whale of a job drafting.

TexansLucky13
12-14-2007, 12:03 AM
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/6bce3141-5bfe-4079-97a0-c070b8ef91be.jpg

"I want my mommy!"

-Jay

Hook'er
12-14-2007, 12:06 AM
See you at the ProBowl Mario!:d:

Fox
12-14-2007, 12:11 AM
I gotta eat my crow too, I said earlier this season that Mario hadn't given us any "wow" moments.

Tonight was wow.

Mario's the man.

kastofsna
12-14-2007, 12:28 AM
couldn't see the game because of work, but a friend of mine texted me after his final sack, but all he said was "Texans get the last laugh. Reggie and Vince suck." i knew Mario must've done something sweet.

kiwitexansfan
12-14-2007, 12:57 AM
All doubters have been put to shame.

Mario has almost as many sacks as VY has interceptions.... and that is REALLY saying something. Way to go!

Mario has more TD's than Reggie Bust has had 25+ yard runs... in his career.

And hate to gloat but I always dreamed about getting Mario over RB and VY... and he finally is living up to his SUPER Mario tag.

kiwitexansfan
12-14-2007, 01:00 AM
:mario2: :fireball: :marionaner: :mario3:

Its fun when good things happen.

BigBull17
12-14-2007, 01:48 AM
Man, Im in lala land over what I saw tonight. I am just stoked that he did it on the grand stage. Just WOW.

Vinny
12-14-2007, 02:14 AM
I just walked in from the game. Nice to meet Edo and Overalls.....both very nice guys. Mario was lights out tonight and Okoye really helped with great push inside on two of Mario's sacks...this should be a great tandem next season. Seems the team is turning the corner as Mario turns his corner. Its been a while since I remember feeling this good about the team.

valleytexfan
12-14-2007, 02:17 AM
I'm right there with you Vinny. I love feeling good about the Texans...and the past five days have been magnificent!!!!!!!:whip:

austintexanite
12-14-2007, 02:23 AM
I missed his performance because my sister wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy and the subsequent spinoff with Addison.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/6bce3141-5bfe-4079-97a0-c070b8ef91be.jpg

"I want my mommy!"

-Jay

LLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEE on the first one, j/k family time is well spent. That's a great *******ing picture man. :texflag:

TheRealJoker
12-14-2007, 02:28 AM
This was the best Texans home game i've ever attended!!! The crowd was electric, the team won decisively, and I think we've finally seen Mario turn the corner and become a legit superstar in H-Town as evidenced by the "MA-RI-O" chants throughout the stadium after every play he made tonight.

Ckw
12-14-2007, 02:37 AM
This was the best Texans home game i've ever attended!!! The crowd was electric, the team won decisively, and I think we've finally seen Mario turn the corner and become a legit superstar in H-Town as evidenced by the "MA-RI-O" chants throughout the stadium after every play he made tonight.

Man for sure. This was amazing. This was my third game (also was at the Indy and Titans games) and this one was by far the best. But that could also be because I was 7th row instead of 2nd deck last row...

powerfuldragon
12-14-2007, 10:11 AM
I missed his performance because my sister wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy and the subsequent spinoff with Addison.
please tell me you're joking. please tell me you at least tried to give her five across the eyes just for thinking you might be willing to skip texans football for some trifling medical soap....


also, Mario Williams '08

Double Barrel
12-14-2007, 12:10 PM
Mario said in a post game interview on NFLN that he's never been to Hawaii and will never go unless invited.

I like the attitude! :texflag:

eriadoc
12-14-2007, 12:20 PM
I missed his performance because my sister wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy and the subsequent spinoff with Addison.

Never, ever tell anyone you watched Grey's Anatomy over the Texans. For shame.

threetoedpete
12-14-2007, 12:58 PM
Never, ever tell anyone you watched Grey's Anatomy over the Texans. For shame.

Well, I watch with the wife. There are lot worse chick shows out there. Bonding time. It works. Twenty five years of marrage and counting. Pick your fights carefully, don't sweat the small stuff...carve out some bonding time. You will be king of the house.

Yes, but your sister conveintly forgot to tell you it was a re-run...too funny. See I knew becuse I let her watch her shows and when I decide to dump one... she lets me.

El cabezon
12-14-2007, 01:36 PM
Excellent reasoning. :sarcasm:

« High marks for primetime Texans | Main

December 13, 2007
What an incredible 31-13 victory for the Texans (w/audio)
Before we dive into the Texans' 31-13 victory over the Broncos, let's give some credit to Charley Casserly, the former general manager who convinced owner Bob McNair and coach Gary Kubiak to draft Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

Here you go dude, this is on todays blog.

Link (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/12/what_an_incredible_3113_victor_1.html)

Lucky
12-14-2007, 01:56 PM
Here you go dude, this is on todays blog.

If John McClain said it, then it has to be true.

El cabezon
12-14-2007, 02:03 PM
If John McClain said it, then it has to be true.


So what you're saying is that I'm supposed to believe you and some of the MB members instead of McClain who is a lot closer to the team?
Let me think about that one......the answer is no, I'll believe McClain.

Double Barrel
12-14-2007, 03:13 PM
So what you're saying is that I'm supposed to believe you and some of the MB members instead of McClain who is a lot closer to the team?
Let me think about that one......the answer is no, I'll believe McClain.

McClain has also stated on numerous occasions that the Texans made a mistake picking Mario over Vince Young, and has consistently stated that VY should already have his name engraved on the Hall of Fame.

So take McClain's spewage with a grain of salt. The dude is a weed in the wind, and if he was as smart as he thinks he is, he would be working for a team evaluating talent instead of just talking about one.

And actually, McClain is not that close to the team. He's a lot closer to the Tennessee Titans, though. They are his favorites.

infantrycak
12-14-2007, 03:21 PM
So what you're saying is that I'm supposed to believe you and some of the MB members instead of McClain who is a lot closer to the team?
Let me think about that one......the answer is no, I'll believe McClain.

McClain is closer to the NFL in general but isn't closer to this team. There has been a notable drop off in attributed quotes since Casserly left. McClain is doing nothing more than speculating like any other fan at this point.

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2007, 03:31 PM
« High marks for primetime Texans | Main

December 13, 2007
What an incredible 31-13 victory for the Texans (w/audio)
Before we dive into the Texans' 31-13 victory over the Broncos, let's give some credit to Charley Casserly, the former general manager who convinced owner Bob McNair and coach Gary Kubiak to draft Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.

Here you go dude, this is on todays blog.

Link (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/12/what_an_incredible_3113_victor_1.html)

Digging a little deeper , you must thank them for extending Carr's contract . Then thank Bush for taking illegal money .

Take these two events and add Mario's off the chart combine and you get our present situation .

Fox
12-14-2007, 03:51 PM
Did it seem like the lineman were standing nearly single file in the middle of the field prior to snaps, and then they'd move once the offense came to the line of scrimmage so the offense didn't know where Mario was going to line up until they set up? Have we always done that and I just never noticed?

That's freakin sweet that Smith is letting Mario call for his favorite five plays, and it seems to be working too.

The Pencil Neck
12-14-2007, 04:27 PM
Did it seem like the lineman were standing nearly single file in the middle of the field prior to snaps, and then they'd move once the offense came to the line of scrimmage so the offense didn't know where Mario was going to line up until they set up? Have we always done that and I just never noticed?


We've been doing that for most of the year. It's not entirely to keep the offense from knowing where Mario is; it's also about looking at the offensive alignment and then us putting our guys where they can do the most damage. For example, to put Mario weakside or strongside for a particular play.

GuerillaBlack
12-14-2007, 04:27 PM
I missed his performance because my sister wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy and the subsequent spinoff with Addison.

Your weak. Grey's Anatomy over the Texans? Could you not get to a computer and at least watch NFL.Com's coverage?

mexican_texan
12-14-2007, 04:37 PM
Jim Rome just apologized to Mario.

Fox
12-14-2007, 04:38 PM
I just walked in from the game. Nice to meet Edo and Overalls.....both very nice guys. Mario was lights out tonight and Okoye really helped with great push inside on two of Mario's sacks...this should be a great tandem next season. Seems the team is turning the corner as Mario turns his corner. Its been a while since I remember feeling this good about the team.

Good point on Okoye, looking back at the highlights he may not have any sacks to show for it but he was creating havoc last night.

markn
12-14-2007, 04:45 PM
Jim Rome just apologized to Mario.

Read it here:

http://www.jimrome.com/home/articles/article_3.html

gg no re
12-14-2007, 04:55 PM
Your weak. Grey's Anatomy over the Texans? Could you not get to a computer and at least watch NFL.Com's coverage?
t all critics please don't come down on me like that

you don't understand

you just don't!

you're all just as bad as mario's critics :(

GuerillaBlack
12-14-2007, 05:03 PM
Jim Rome:

Mario Williams is a Monster
Jim Rome / 12-14-2007

Quick shout out to Houston Texans stud, Mario Williams. Speaking on behalf the entire universe, sorry we crushed and vilified you before you had even stepped on to your first NFL field. Sorry, we annihilated you as the NFL’s Sam Bowie before you had even had a chance to rush your first NFL QB…and we’re all guilty of it.

Who amongst us didn’t jump the Texans for taking Williams over Reggie Bush and Vince Young. I mean, has there even been more pressure on a draft pick. Even if he succeeded, he still failed. No matter what he did, it would never be enough. Considering he went first and who he was taken over, he had to be a once in a lifetime player. Playing great wasn’t enough, he had to take over games by himself…and that’s exactly what he’s doing now. Taking over games. He hounded Jay Cutler last night like he owed him money or stole something from him…sacked him three and half times…giving him 9 in the last 5 games alone.

The guy is playing like a stronger Dwight Freeney…a faster Patrick Kerney. He’s playing like the number one pick overall…and he’s playing much better than Bush and V-Y. Bush and Young relied on their natural ability last year and both have taken big steps backwards this year. Williams, on the other hand, stayed the course and caught up with his ability, and now he dominating…and best of all, despite all the heat he took, he never once lashed out, got bent or demanded an apology. Well, here’s the apology you never asked for Mario, but deserve. You’re a beast on the field, a class act off it. You’ve blown by Bush and Young. You’re living up to the hype and it looks the Texans knew exactly what they were doing. See you in Honolulu, Mario!

threetoedpete
12-14-2007, 11:56 PM
Really good read. I think this also dispels a lot of rumors about how the decision was made (i.e. Bush was being unreasonable and McNair was pissed about the scandal).

But not everyone within the organization agrees on Williams. He didn't play hard at the beginning of last season, nor was he consistently productive. Casserly and Kubiak study all his games; they don't believe any of these negatives is persuasive enough. They also have questions about Bush. If he is this good, why did he play just part-time at USC? And why, near the end of the national championship game, did USC turn to LenDale White more than Bush? Do you pay No. 1 money to a guy who will not be a full-time back? They never answer these questions to their satisfaction. May be not but I guessed this one correct. Still say leaving the owner of a NFL club dangling for two days wouldn't help any draft choice under any circumstances. Acroding to this, the desidsion was made way befor the scandals broke.


http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/12/what_an_incredible_3113_victor_1.html
McClain's Blog:
But the closer the Texans got to the draft, the more reports they heard about Bush and the controversy he would be in the middle of involving NCAA violations. First, it was Casserly who fell in love with Williams and recommended not drafting Bush. Then McNair and Kubiak came on board.

threetoedpete
12-15-2007, 12:04 AM
Last word from the horse's mouth:

On April 18, McNair meets with Kubiak, Casserly and the two coordinators so he can hear how each player would influence his respective side of the ball. Two days later, at a gathering of his minority partners, McNair is asked, "Isn't this a marketing as well as a football decision?" He responds: "Nothing is more important than doing what it takes to win games." McNair wants a contract signed before the draft but agrees a stalemate with either player won't prevent his selection.

http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060501/734742-p.html


Word

Runner
12-15-2007, 02:29 AM
So what you're saying is that I'm supposed to believe you and some of the MB members instead of McClain who is a lot closer to the team?
Let me think about that one......the answer is no, I'll believe McClain.

Did you also believe him when he stated in no uncertain terms that Pitts would be the left tackle under Kubiak, or when in January of this year he said Spencer's recovery was coming along nicely? Those two examples jump to mind, and can be found in old threads here (for anyone who cares to compare different points of view rather than relying solely on a newspaper's version of the truth).

I think I saw statements like the one quoted above then too when "some message board members" differed with his opinion. A lot of people argued with me and the couple of others who were not riding the "Spencer will be back for 2007" spin cycle. It was still a surpise to many when Spencer never made an attempt to play.

Does McClain have a lot of inside knowledge? Yes.

Is he infallible? No.

Is it easier just to believe everything one reads in the paper? I guess so.

=====================

Just for the record, I think the Capers coaching staff did far more damage to the team than Casserly. The reason I pointed out that Kubiak gets credit for good picks and Casserly gets credit for bad picks during that draft was to point out the irony of the situation.

Arky
12-15-2007, 09:16 AM
That Sporting News article is right on, IMO. If you combine what it has with the press conference of Bob McNair, I think you get the full picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNw-tXyn6qM

In the press conference, McNair states that they had tendered both Reggie and Mario the same offer. (I think this was $26 million. But it sounds like both respective agents wanted $28 million (Sporting News). Sounds like Mario's agent was willing to relent the $2 million quicker than the Bush camp. Then again, McNair mentions they were "close enough" with Bush that it wasn't really an issue.)

As far as McClain goes, I'm really not quite sure why he keeps insisting that it was Casserley's pick. No doubt, he was still GM at the time and had input. Casserley liked Mario. But so did Kubes. Mr. McNair just wanted to win football games. In the youtube video, McNair explains that the coaches decided that they needed defense over offense with that pick. In the end, IMO, it was a consensus organizational pick. Not a one man decision. At least, that's the way I see it....

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2007, 10:32 AM
Kubiak the candidate wanted Bush and nodded to Carr. In my opinion he was not going to make two committments on two unknowns right out of the gate.

How it really went down is anyone's guess, but I would surmise that the current (pre-draft) and future spending had something to do with it.

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=300318&highlight=mario+draft#post300318

Chance_C
12-15-2007, 11:55 AM
I was mixed up in the days leading to the draft. Honestly, I didn't want Bush because of exactly what's going on with him now. I knew that we couldn't get Young because of the Carr situation. And I was a little skeptical about Mario. To me though (and I know this sounds opposite of sexy) I thought Mario was the sexy pick. I thought he had the possibility of becoming great. The tangibles were there, but he was going from North Carolina State to the NFL after all. How it all translates is a crap shoot for sure, and like every college athlete, there were questions concerning Mario and his translation to the next level. Almost two seasons into his career, it looks like it's translating pretty well. I'm proud for him, for the organization, for the team, the fans, and everyone involved. All the positive press concerning him and our team is music to my ears. And I think that we all agree as he goes our team goes. One thing is for sure. He has set the bar pretty high for himself....:texflag:

Rex King
12-16-2007, 11:53 AM
There are going to be a lot of endorsements, schills, and degenerates coming after Mario this offseason wanting a piece of him. I hope he’s ready for it, because Reggie and VY clearly weren’t. I think that’s part of the reason they’ve regressed this year. While they were out doing their commercials, Mario had his nose to the grindstone.

BSofA04
12-16-2007, 11:57 AM
There are going to be a lot of endorsements, schills, and degenerates coming after Mario this offseason wanting a piece of him. I hope he’s ready for it, because Reggie and VY clearly weren’t. I think that’s part of the reason they’ve regressed this year. While they were out doing their commercials, Mario had his nose to the grindstone.

Comments like this get you rep points. Well said.

b0ng
12-18-2007, 01:29 AM
Sorry to bring this old topic back up Joker, but this is in reference to why Mario didn't get nominated for Defensive Player of the Week and you said:

Mario didn't get nominated because his team didn't win their football game.

NFL Defensive Player of the Week Nominee's (http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-defense)

So, here's an excerpt:


Brian Urlacher (http://www.nfl.com/players/brianurlacher/profile?id=URL059326), LB, Chicago Bears
Urlacher was everywhere in the Bears' 20-13 loss to the Vikings on Monday night. He recorded six tackles, sacked Tarvaris Jackson two times, intercepted him once and recovered a fumble by the Vikings quarterback.

Impressive stats none the less.

TheRealJoker
12-18-2007, 01:34 AM
1) Brian Urlacher is one of the most well known players in the league

2) The game was broadcast on MNF

3) That's one hell of a game.

Maddict5
12-18-2007, 06:19 AM
1) Brian Urlacher is one of the most well known players in the league

2) The game was broadcast on MNF

3) That's one hell of a game.


true but i counter that with two words: tavaris jackson :wild:

AnthonyE
12-18-2007, 09:06 AM
true but i counter that with two words: tavaris jackson :wild:

You win.

TEXANS84
12-18-2007, 11:57 AM
• Mario Williams' breakout season validates his selection as the No. 1 overall selection in 2006 NFL Draft. Often compared to Bruce Smith as a prospect, Williams is becoming a dominant pass rusher off the edge due to improved footwork and hand usage. No longer relying solely on his athleticism to defeat blockers, Williams has developed a series of counter moves to handle the various short sets opposing tackles have used against him.

But the real key to Williams' stellar season has been the Texans' decision to use him primarily at left end after using him at several spots last year. By lining Williams to the offensive right, the Texans are often able to get their top pass rusher matched up against tight ends and running backs in pass protection (most offenses are right handed, so teams typically line up their tight end to the right). And move is paying off, as Williams has tallied 10 sacks in the past seven games, including three and a half against the Broncos on Thursday night.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/bucky_brooks/12/16/scouts.notebook/1.html

Honoring Earl 34
12-19-2007, 12:56 AM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/NY+Jets/WWHI/2007/wwhi121407.htm

76Texan
12-19-2007, 01:13 AM
I still firmly believe that the Texans did right by lining up Mario all over the place in his first year.
A crash course, you may say. Throwing him into the fire. Throwing him into the pool. Whatever. That is how you fast track a good player, long as you trust that he can benefit from it. Let him match up with lotsa good-great players on the O-line.

I truly believe that it makes him a better player sooner for us. You can't be the best until you face all the best, IMHO.

austintexanite
12-19-2007, 01:43 AM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/NY+Jets/WWHI/2007/wwhi121407.htm

I heard rumblings that he wasn't having a great year. I wanted him as our pick last year.

HJam72
12-19-2007, 01:43 AM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/NY+Jets/WWHI/2007/wwhi121407.htm

Wow, I thought they were really set with those two guys (Ferguson and Mangold).

beerlover
12-19-2007, 02:58 AM
Wow, I thought they were really set with those two guys (Ferguson and Mangold).

I would trade the Jets our 1st & 3rd picks for them :)

thunderkyss
12-19-2007, 08:21 AM
2) The game was broadcast on MNF


I'm starting to think Mario is being punished because the Thursday night game was on NFLN.

I'm 90 miles east of Houston(Port Arthur Texas). I was at the Buccaneer game, but I set my DVR to record the game. The channel guide said it was going to be the Texans & the Bucs, but when I watched it, it was freak'n Dallas & the Lions.

My point, Mario's two best games weren't on TV.

Wolf
12-21-2007, 05:54 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20071221_Paul_Domowitch___No__1_pick_turning_into_ Super_Mario.html
TWENTY MONTHS ago, it seemed like a no-brainer. Reggie Bush or Mario Williams? A once-in-a-decade running back or a defensive end with a questionable motor.

When the Houston Texans went with the big guy behind door No. 2, well, the club's general manager, Charley Casserly, got a lot more votes for Village ***** than he did for NFL Executive of the Year. Bypassing Bush for Williams was considered Ryan Leaf-like lunacy.

"At least people believed in Ryan Leaf,'' said Casserly, who resigned shortly after the 2006 draft and now works for CBS. "Half the league would have taken Leaf [over Peyton Manning]. But we believed in what we were doing at the time. Now, I think people see what we saw then.''

Fourteen games into his second season, Williams is a blossoming star. He is second in the league in sacks with 13 and leads all NFL defensive ends in tackles.

Bush, meanwhile, who was taken by the Saints with the second pick in that draft, is not playing at all like a once-in-a-decade running back. Forced to be a carry-the-load running back after Deuce McAllister went down in Week 3 with a season-ending injury, Bush is averaging just 3.7 yards per carry and 5.7 yards per reception. Mr. Big Play has become Mr. Small Play.

"We had some questions about whether you could line Reggie up and play him every snap as a runner,'' Casserly said. "We did think he had big-play ability and did think he could have a role on the team. But would you have to have another back with him? That became a question.''


Bush is 6-foot and 200 pounds, which is 2 inches taller and about the same weight as the Eagles' Brian Westbrook, who also faced is-he-an-every-down-back questions when he came into the league. But Bush has a thinner lower body than Westbrook. His lower body resembles that of a wide receiver more than a running back. He also doesn't have near the leg strength that Westbrook does.

Casserly and the Texans felt they could get a running back later in the draft or even in free agency. They didn't think they could get a 6-7, 290-pound defensive end with 4.65 speed like Williams anywhere else.

"We were switching to a 4-3 from a 3-4 and needed a defensive end who could be a force,'' Casserly said. "When you're playing a four-man front, you've got to have a guy you can build that defense around. You saw the impact Reggie White had. I'm not trying to compare this kid to Reggie. But you've got to have that kind of guy in your defensive line. Somebody that people have to game plan against.''

Casserly scouted Williams several times in person and watched endless tape. He didn't see the inconsistent motor that many other scouts saw.

"I thought he played hard in every game I saw him play,'' he said. "What happens with a defensive lineman is, you can go stretches where you don't make any plays. You're playing hard, you're beating your man, but the ball might be going away from you or you just don't make the play."

Wolf
12-21-2007, 07:03 PM
posted this on another thread, but a good read for Mario Fans

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/SPORTS03/712210370&theme=

Tulip
12-22-2007, 01:05 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20071221_Paul_Domowitch___No__1_pick_turning_into_ Super_Mario.html

Good stuff, Wolf - thanks.

Hookem Horns
12-22-2007, 03:36 PM
Kubiak the candidate wanted Bush and nodded to Carr. In my opinion he was not going to make two committments on two unknowns right out of the gate.


Actually Carr was an unknown. It was known that he currently sucked at that time, however it was unknown whether or not he could stop sucking under Kubiak. Of course we all know that the suckness that was Carr was legitimate suckness and there would be no changing that. Kubes was 1 for 2 there.

I don't claim to be a football expert but I was convinced that neither Carr or Bush would pan out well in the NFL. I just knew that picking Bush and keeping Carr would have launched us into Arizona Cardinalness for the next decade. Looks like I ended up being right there. When healthy Bush has barely shown any flashes and certainly hasn't been a game breaker. However now the question of his durability comes up. Some scouts didn't think he had the body to hold up well in the NFL. After having to carry the load for the Saints this is looking like it could be the case.

Where I hope I will be proven wrong in all of this is with VY. VY's legs are what really made him the superstar in college. Can he continue to have that threat and stay healthy in the NFL? If not, he may still end up being a decent QB but not the superstar he was in college.

We do have to keep all of this in perspective though. Mario is looking the better of the 3 RIGHT NOW, however the landscape of things changes so fast in the NFL. We may not truly know for another 3 to 5 years who made out best in this draft. It might be that none of the top 3 end up being the best.

thunderkyss
12-22-2007, 11:51 PM
However now the question of his durability comes up. Some scouts didn't think he had the body to hold up well in the NFL. After having to carry the load for the Saints this is looking like it could be the case.

But.. wasn't he carrying the load because another, more prototypical running back got injured??


Look, I'm not a Reggie Apologist or anything, but can you start attacking his durability after one injury??

I mean Duce has a fat paycheck, just like Reggie, & he has a history of injuries.

Let's talk about the fumbles, the inability to find the end zone, the pitiful stats, the endless barrage of ridiculous Reggie Bush commercials played again & again on NFL Network.

We'll slam him about his durability next year, when he can't make a full season again.

Tulip
12-23-2007, 10:32 AM
I think questioning Bush's durability is perfectly legitimate because one of the biggest knocks on him coming out was his body type and how that could make him susceptible to injury while try to ply RB. And he keeps himself in perfect physical shape, if anyone has ever seen segments on his workout regimen. Durability is a concern with him, whether he has a history of injuries or not.

Back to Mario, the actual topic of this thread, I am itching for another monster game from him. Too bad they aren't playing at home, because I think Mario really feeds off the home crowd.

Maddict5
12-23-2007, 10:54 AM
Back to Mario, the actual topic of this thread, I am itching for another monster game from him. Too bad they aren't playing at home, because I think Mario really feeds off the home crowd.

the crowd feeds off mario too.. hes quietly become our franchise player (not to take away from demeco,aj,dunta etc or anything but because of what happened last yr and how its turned out, hes become the fan favourite)

jerek
12-23-2007, 10:54 AM
I think today is a really big game for Mario Williams. We drafted him with the tagline of "getting to Manning" and now that we have seen him come on and really develop as of late, today would be the perfect day for him to fulfill on that promise.

TheRealJoker
12-23-2007, 11:07 AM
If/When Mario has a big game today the "MA-RI-O" chants for all pro and other recognitions will not be ignored!!!

tbell ncsu
12-23-2007, 07:09 PM
is there a torrent or video of the game online yet?

Wolf
12-29-2007, 10:06 AM
more kudos for Williams

Their stories are important too, and here they are:

Mario Williams

If only the second-year defensive end of the Houston Texans got as much attention for his play as he received for being the top overall pick of last year’s NFL Draft.

Williams had no control over the Texans’ selection of him over players such as Reggie Bush and Houston native Vince Young, and he had to hear a lot about what a huge mistake the Texans had made by taking him. Williams is quickly proving those naysayers wrong as he evolves into one of football’s best defensive players.

Williams has 14 sacks this year (Julius Peppers' career high is 13), ranking him second in the NFL in that category. He also has 55 tackles and is playing a complete game, stuffing the run as well as he tracks down QBs. Bush, the player Houston was ripped for not taking, is looking more like Larry Centers than Gale Sayers every day. At the time of his season-ending knee injury three weeks ago, Bush ranked 37th in yards per carry among the 47 backs with more than 75 attempts, he led the NFL in dropped passes and carried the lowest yards per reception average of any back in the top-10 in catches since 1963. Bush’s longest play this year is 25 yards, and Williams even topped him there with fumble recovery returned 38 yards for a touchdown on the opening weekend of the season.

Vince Young has also struggled mightily in his sophomore year. Thus far, Williams has probably played better than anyone from the 2006 Draft, and he’s definitely exceeded the performance of one Reggie Bush.


http://www.laurinburgexchange.com/articles/2007/12/29/news/sports/sports01.txt

Joe Texan
12-29-2007, 10:09 AM
I have said it fro the 2006 draft, M A R I O M A R I O

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2007, 10:14 AM
He is nothing but a workout warrior.

axman40
12-29-2007, 10:46 AM
He is nothing but a workout warrior.
Actually he dominates inferior talent!
:texflag:

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2007, 10:53 AM
Actually he dominates inferior talent!
:texflag:

Actually he should have no sacks recorded because everyone steers the QB into his path or the QB just goes down.

ATX
12-29-2007, 11:07 AM
Actually he should have no sacks recorded because everyone steers the QB into his path or the QB just goes down.

That and the fact that he isn't going against a great LT on every rush like great DE's always do. :)

b0ng
12-29-2007, 11:12 AM
IT's obvious he takes games off because he doesn't have a sack in every game!

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2007, 11:15 AM
He is just wired wrong. Not having fast twitch muscles like Peppers will keep him from attaining Peppers'-like sack numbers.

nunusguy
12-29-2007, 11:32 AM
A huge factor that many overlook is the number of sack opportunities presented to a pass rusher who is on a team which routinely has a large lead
vs. a team which routinely is behind.
One team is rushing the ball while it sits on its lead and runs the clock out while the other has to constantly put its QB at risk of being sacked in obvious passing situations in an effort to get back in the game.
That factor alone gives a Dwight Freeney a tremendous edge over a Mario Williams in sack opportunities.

SheTexan
12-29-2007, 11:38 AM
KT! I love the sig pic!! :d:

Work ethics and attitude, coupled with strength, quickness, and a quick learning curve, will make Mario one of the best DE the NFL has ever seen, past or present. He DOES feed off the fans, and is one of the FEW players to ever give fans recognition. Dunte does, and so does Bennett, and it's a nice feeling to see them respond to the fans the way they do.

BigBull17
12-29-2007, 03:27 PM
A huge factor that many overlook is the number of sack opportunities presented to a pass rusher who is on a team which routinely has a large lead
vs. a team which routinely is behind.
One team is rushing the ball while it sits on its lead and runs the clock out while the other has to constantly put its QB at risk of being sacked in obvious passing situations in an effort to get back in the game.
That factor alone gives a Dwight Freeney a tremendous edge over a Mario Williams in sack opportunities.

Has anyone oticed that Freeny's sack numbers have gone down alot since Carr moved out of the AFC south? Just wondering.

TexansFanatic
12-29-2007, 07:59 PM
Has anyone oticed that Freeny's sack numbers have gone down alot since Carr moved out of the AFC south? Just wondering.

Nice.

Runner
12-30-2007, 07:18 PM
Actually he should have no sacks recorded because everyone steers the QB into his path or the QB just goes down.

That and the fact that he isn't going against a great LT on every rush like great DE's always do. :)

IT's obvious he takes games off because he doesn't have a sack in every game!

He is just wired wrong. Not having fast twitch muscles like Peppers will keep him from attaining Peppers'-like sack numbers.


Flipping the coin over, now that he is playing well we can give up the (phantom) double team excuse too!

Wolf
01-06-2008, 11:26 AM
little old and not sure if this was mentioned

if so my apologies

After this Sunday, the Texans' rookies will no longer be rookies. How do you think they will come back after their break? The Texans are obviously hopeful that Amobi Okoye can make a similar jump as Mario Williams did last offseason.

Williams said there isn't much of a secret to using the offseason to your advantage. It's mostly about using common sense.

"It's all about taking care of your own self," Williams said. "You could have everybody sitting here trying to say you need to do this, do that, but at the end it comes down to how hard you're going to do whatever you were supposed to have been doing. So it's pretty much you've go to take it upon yourself and do what's right for you and what you know you need to work on."


http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/12/offensive_coordinator_search_t.html

Wolf
01-06-2008, 11:59 AM
http://search.nfl.com/search/query?query=%22mario+williams%22&type=video&txtIgnore=

videos at nfl.com of him throughout the season

marks01234
01-07-2008, 11:05 AM
http://search.nfl.com/search/query?query=%22mario+williams%22&type=video&txtIgnore=

videos at nfl.com of him throughout the season


thanks!

powerfuldragon
01-07-2008, 01:09 PM
you know what would be really cool? if every time he was about to all out rush the QB, he yelled MMMAAARRRIOOO HHHWWWILLIAMMMMS in the style of Leeroy Jenkins...

Maddict5
01-07-2008, 02:30 PM
mario got 1 vote for DPOTY

Rey
09-07-2011, 11:37 PM
I wanted to bump the Mario is a bust thread, but this one shall do.

I couldn't find the fast twitch conversation. Lots of comments that sound similar to ones we hear about Mario now. Plus it's just fun to pass time reading oldie threads.

badboy
09-07-2011, 11:56 PM
I wanted to bump the Mario is a bust thread, but this one shall do.

I couldn't find the fast twitch conversation. Lots of comments that sound similar to ones we hear about Mario now. Plus it's just fun to pass time reading oldie threads.But how many draft picks can we get for him?
:kitten::doot:

Kaiser Toro
09-08-2011, 12:38 AM
Mario is a couple of twitches short of Greased Lightning.

GP
09-08-2011, 12:44 AM
Mario is a couple of twitches short of Greased Lightning.

NFLN was re-airing their Top 100 players show.

When showing DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, it's obvious that Ware is built different from Mario. Whereas Mario is tall and long, Ware is shorter and wider...Ware gets his pad level low and drives through or around the lineman, and has amazing instincts--Just a twist here, or a spin there, at seemingly a split-second of reaction and he's to the QB or the ball carrier.

Watching those clips of Ware, I can say that my eyes don't see those same qualities in Mario.

Before everybody jumps my ass and scolds me for daring to dog Mario and puff up Ware on here...just one thing: I think Mario is adequate. He's not bad, he's not decent. He's adequate. He should be great, though. And this preseason action we saw from him? I hope he flips a switch early in the reg season. I have serious doubts, personally.

Rey
09-08-2011, 01:17 AM
NFLN was re-airing their Top 100 players show.

When showing DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, it's obvious that Ware is built different from Mario. Whereas Mario is tall and long, Ware is shorter and wider...Ware gets his pad level low and drives through or around the lineman, and has amazing instincts--Just a twist here, or a spin there, at seemingly a split-second of reaction and he's to the QB or the ball carrier.

Watching those clips of Ware, I can say that my eyes don't see those same qualities in Mario.

Before everybody jumps my ass and scolds me for daring to dog Mario and puff up Ware on here...just one thing: I think Mario is adequate. He's not bad, he's not decent. He's adequate. He should be great, though. And this preseason action we saw from him? I hope he flips a switch early in the reg season. I have serious doubts, personally.

Mario and Dwight freeney weren't the same type of de's either.

If you are expecting Mario to look like ware or freeney you will be disappointed. That's just not who he is.

GP
09-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Mario and Dwight freeney weren't the same type of de's either.

If you are expecting Mario to look like ware or freeney you will be disappointed. That's just not who he is.

I only expect a highly-touted DE, such as Mario, to produce and to do it on a consistent basis....not be quiet and invisible for several games and then run into a string of sacks against weak teams like the Rams or Raiders, etc.

Freeny and Ware are better DEs than Mario.

Put Ware on this Texans defense and he gets 127 sacks and is banned from the NFL for sexual assault on the field of play.

And in case somebody wants to scold me, again (and not pointing fingers at you, rey), let me say this: This defense, with a new d-coord and better secondary players and a Defense-heavy draft that produced JJ Watt, is outgrowing Mario Williams. Not entirely, obviously. I mean to say that this defense as a whole unit is capable of wreaking havoc with or without Mario.

We've practically had no other "good" defensive players outside of Mario Williams, Dunta Robinson, and DeMeco Ryans when he's not hurt or making "it's juts another game" comments. It's easy to understand why so many fans are still thinking Mario is just mislabeled by the haters, etc. Whatever. The guy is not "great," and I won't buy the argument from some who claim he's a top tier guy. He's close, but no cigar, IMO.

ObsiWan
09-08-2011, 02:35 AM
I only expect a highly-touted DE, such as Mario, to produce and to do it on a consistent basis....not be quiet and invisible for several games and then run into a string of sacks against weak teams like the Rams or Raiders, etc.

Freeny and Ware are better DEs than Mario.

Put Ware on this Texans defense and he gets 127 sacks and is banned from the NFL for sexual assault on the field of play.

And in case somebody wants to scold me, again (and not pointing fingers at you, rey), let me say this: This defense, with a new d-coord and better secondary players and a Defense-heavy draft that produced JJ Watt, is outgrowing Mario Williams. Not entirely, obviously. I mean to say that this defense as a whole unit is capable of wreaking havoc with or without Mario.

We've practically had no other "good" defensive players outside of Mario Williams, Dunta Robinson, and DeMeco Ryans when he's not hurt or making "it's juts another game" comments. It's easy to understand why so many fans are still thinking Mario is just mislabeled by the haters, etc. Whatever. The guy is not "great," and I won't buy the argument from some who claim he's a top tier guy. He's close, but no cigar, IMO.

What about the guys who voted him as one of the top 100 players of last year. They play him week-in/week-out. I guess they don't know what they're talking about either, huh?

The assessment from guys with first-hand data carry more weight than fans or talking heads who don't play.

Rey
09-08-2011, 07:44 AM
I only expect a highly-touted DE, such as Mario, to produce and to do it on a consistent basis....not be quiet and invisible for several games and then run into a string of sacks against weak teams

Do you watch other de's/olb's?

Lots of them tend to get sacks in bunches.

And Mario gets sacks against good teams so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Remember when he hurt Ben rothelisberger in pittsburg?

He gets sacks against good qb's. Problem is, in the past if he wasn't getting sacks hardly anyone else was.

And I disagree that freeney is a better de than Mario was. He was a better pass rusher for sure. But freeney is not great against the run. There is more to being a de than pinning your ears back. when the colts are getting pounded freeney and Mathis are invisible. They have about 0 impact on the game. Go back and look at the first game from last year as well as the many other times opponents run the ball at them.

Marios role is changing under Phillips so it's not fair to compare old Mario to ware because they weren't asked to do the same things. And still, like I said earlier, they are two different types of players. Judge him on his own merits, not based on what others do.

If he fails it won't be because he isn't like Demarcus ware as there have Been all types that have failed and all types that have done well.

Section516
09-08-2011, 08:08 AM
Semi-relevant..

I had a good laugh when reading on the Jag's forum, they figured they'd offer us a firstie and get a little Williams on their side.

in-division trade for inadequate compensation=WIN!

ObsiWan
09-08-2011, 09:38 AM
Semi-relevant..

I had a good laugh when reading on the Jag's forum, they figured they'd offer us a firstie and get a little Williams on their side.

in-division trade for inadequate compensation=WIN!

Interesting how THEY see his value and our own fans do not.

b0ng
09-08-2011, 09:43 AM
Interesting how THEY see his value and our own fans do not.

Fans are jaded and almost always hate their own players, or love them incessantly without reason.

Look at the Jags fans talking about how great their season is going to be now that they got rid of that bum Garrard. Nevermind who is replacing Garrard this cut makes their team better!

Fans come up with all kinds of dumbass reasoning as to why they don't like a specific player, be it smirking after a bad play (or laughing), not completely dominating every single player that lines up in front of them, to making too much money (lol). I think Mario is going to be fine this year, especially if others are contributing in the QB Pressure aspect of our defense.

infantrycak
09-08-2011, 10:30 AM
When showing DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys, it's obvious that Ware is built different from Mario. Whereas Mario is tall and long, Ware is shorter and wider...

You need to get your eyes checked. Ware is a shorter version of Mario and isn't wider at all. He is two inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter. Freeney would be the shorter thicker comparison.

And Mario gets sacks against good teams so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

He's not talking about anything realistic. Mario has sacked Manning more than anyone else during his tenure in the league and Manning is the toughest QB in the league to sack.

GP
09-08-2011, 11:19 AM
I just love Internet debates.

I say Mario is not top tier, others say he is, so I'm wrong and they're right.

I'll see what he does this year, but make no mistake about it...he will be defended (as usual) because "He's in a new system and asked to play a different role."

Previously, he was on a bad defense. Now he's on SUCH a good defense that it overshadows him and his "new role" which also provides an excuse for any lack of impact he might have this year.

A rhinestone sitting on top of a pile of horse manure sparkles, but it ain't a diamond. Mario has been the best d-linemen we've had in the Kubiak era, but that doesn't mean he's All-World. I'd even wager that had he been drafted at like pick 15 (like we normally do every year) he wouldn't be as heavily touted by everybody.

Last thing: He gains a bit of "pop" by virtue of having beaten out VY and RB in the draft. Remember how everybody thought we were dumb for taking Mario over such vaunted talents as VY and RB? That's because nobody knew Mario Williams before he became Houston's #1 pick. He wasn't a prominent NCAA player on a big-time NCAA team, and it blew people's minds when he was picked #1. By virtue of NOT being as bad as VY and RB, he gains some cred that I think is overblown.

I want to see him dominate several games in-a-row and be unblockable. Haven't seen it yet.

beerlover
09-08-2011, 11:28 AM
I just love Internet debates.

I say Mario is not top tier, others say he is, so I'm wrong and they're right.

I'll see what he does this year, but make no mistake about it...he will be defended (as usual) because "He's in a new system and asked to play a different role."

Previously, he was on a bad defense. Now he's on SUCH a good defense that it overshadows him and his "new role" which also provides an excuse for any lack of impact he might have this year.

A rhinestone sitting on top of a pile of horse manure sparkles, but it ain't a diamond. Mario has been the best d-linemen we've had in the Kubiak era, but that doesn't mean he's All-World. I'd even wager that had he been drafted at like pick 15 (like we normally do every year) he wouldn't be as heavily touted by everybody.

Last thing: He gains a bit of "pop" by virtue of having beaten out VY and RB in the draft. Remember how everybody thought we were dumb for taking Mario over such vaunted talents as VY and RB? That's because nobody knew Mario Williams before he became Houston's #1 pick. He wasn't a prominent NCAA player on a big-time NCAA team, and it blew people's minds when he was picked #1. By virtue of NOT being as bad as VY and RB, he gains some cred that I think is overblown.

I want to see him dominate several games in-a-row and be unblockable. Haven't seen it yet.

speaking of debates I hope this one turns out better: remember Kubiak said when he got the HC gig he would make HWMNBN a better starting NFL QB? now it's Wade turn, he might have just told Bob that he could turn Mario into a playmaking OLB in his hybrid defense. :chef:

Section516
09-08-2011, 11:32 AM
Out of the 2006 draft, who would you rather have?

Out of these, the only one i would consider would be Ngata, which wouldn't of lead to Okoye, which may of lead to Revis or Willis. I don't think Revis would of developed into what he is today, however.

*Queue butterfly effect

*only listing Probowlers, per Wiki

Williams, Mario† DT
Young, Vince † QB
Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT
Vernon Davis TE
Jay Cutler QB
Haloti Ngata DT
Antonio Cromartie† CB
Tamba Hali† LB
Davin Joseph† G
DeAngelo Williams RB
Mercedes Lewis TE
Nick Mangold C
Joseph Addai RB
(Demeco Ryans, already drafted) LB
Roman Harper S
Marcus McNeill OT
Greg Jennings WR
Devin Hester WR/R
MJJ RB
OD (alreadt drafted) TE
Jahri Evans G
Leon WashingtonRB
Stephen Gostowski K
Brandon Marshall WR
Elvis Dumerville DE
Kyle Williams DT
Antoine Bethea S
Cortland Finnegan CB

mussop
09-08-2011, 11:47 AM
If he fails it won't be because he isn't like Demarcus ware as there have Been all types that have failed and all types that have done well.

Show me anyone that has played that position that isn't a ware type that has done well. Mario doesn't fit the typical type of athlete that you find at the position. This is the first time that I have heard of a player with Mario's skillset being tried at OLB.

I think Everyone would agree Mario is a great athlete for his size but compared to the Ware's of the NFL he doesn't have the first step or initial burst to blow by Olinemen. That is what makes Ware types so dangerous.

And Mario certainly hasn't shown the instincts or technique to make up for his lack of burst. That is why you see OLinemen and TE's able to lock him up so much. He is going to get his stats simply because of his size and ability but the question people like me want answered is, can he be a weapon at OLB? Unless he miraculously develops some legit moves, instincts and a killer mentality I don't see how that is possible.

Is he going to be terrible? No! Can he become the weapon that the position was designed for? We'll see but I along with others seriously doubt it.

GP
09-08-2011, 12:04 PM
speaking of debates I hope this one turns out better: remember Kubiak said when he got the HC gig he would make HWMNBN a better starting NFL QB? now it's Wade turn, he might have just told Bob that he could turn Mario into a playmaking OLB in his hybrid defense. :chef:

I think that by virtue of having Wade as d-coord, improving the secondary with TWO quality guys in Manning and Joseph, and the Defense-heavy draft...it pretty much is going to put Mario under the microscope.

Can he produce with all this upgraded talent around him?

Kubiak came in and improved the offense in just one season. He even reduced Carr's sack numbers in a HUGE way. A dramatic dip in sacks-taken by Carr. With a new offense, and a few upgrades on offense, even Carr looked better in just one year. However, he looked better because everything around him became better.

Can Mario make a jump up with the uprades around him? For the record, since everybody loves to parse my replies: I am NOT equating Carr and Mario, just saying that both guys were the "Feature Player/Leader" of their respective position(s) and both guys had a new coach come in and upgrade the system and the players around him.

Mario will retire a Texans player. Bob wants it, and I understand the mindset. He's not terrible, he's not mediocre. He's "good" and Bob will want him and Andre Johnson to retire Texans. Can't blame him on that one.

Dutchrudder
09-08-2011, 12:10 PM
you know what would be really cool? if every time he was about to all out rush the QB, he yelled MMMAAARRRIOOO HHHWWWILLIAMMMMS in the style of Leeroy Jenkins...

I agree with this. He would be my favorite player if he did that.

beerlover
09-08-2011, 12:13 PM
I like when Wade has him up on the line with his hand down. Is this your typical OLB position? probably not, but it puts Mario in the best position to get into the backfield quickest. Teams counter by running the opposite direction, this feeds them into the teeth of Wades defensive shifts. If Mario gets a sack or tackle behind the line of scrimmage that's a bonus, bottom line is there will be more three & outs than ever allowing Texan offense to rack up significantly more scoring plays which should translate into more wins :mario:

badboy
09-08-2011, 12:16 PM
It no longer matters to me what pick Mario was or what position he played last season. He does not have to be super Mario to be successful in this defense but he has to be pretty good and soon. We have a better defense around him and arguably the best DC in NFL at the 3-4. Wade thinks he can turn Williams into a very good QB disrupter and we know he has done this with others. Against Collins, Mario should have a very good if not great game.

BigBull17
09-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Semi-relevant..

I had a good laugh when reading on the Jag's forum, they figured they'd offer us a firstie and get a little Williams on their side.

in-division trade for inadequate compensation=WIN!

Pssh, he's only worth a 3rd...:mariopalm:

Rey
09-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Show me anyone that has played that position that isn't a ware type that has done well. Mario doesn't fit the typical type of athlete that you find at the position. This is the first time that I have heard of a player with Mario's skillset being tried at OLB.

I think Everyone would agree Mario is a great athlete for his size but compared to the Ware's of the NFL he doesn't have the first step or initial burst to blow by Olinemen. That is what makes Ware types so dangerous.

And Mario certainly hasn't shown the instincts or technique to make up for his lack of burst. That is why you see OLinemen and TE's able to lock him up so much. He is going to get his stats simply because of his size and ability but the question people like me want answered is, can he be a weapon at OLB? Unless he miraculously develops some legit moves, instincts and a killer mentality I don't see how that is possible.

Is he going to be terrible? No! Can he become the weapon that the position was designed for? We'll see but I along with others seriously doubt it.


1st, I disagree that TE's and lineman consistently lock him up. IMHO, a lot of people like to look at games and make determinations without knowing exactly what a player is trying to do. Often times D-linemen are asked to hold the point of attack in running situations. Exactly how many times have you seen Mario get pushed back and cleared out of the way?

As far as your point about showing another player like Mario being successful there hasn't been many players like him to play that position. But that's not what I said. What I said was that there have been different types of players to play the position.

I don't think your argument really holds a lot of weight because you are not taking into account innovation. If folks always did one thing the same way you wouldn't have anyone setting trends.

Maybe Mario fails. I don't know. IMOHO, I think he will succeed though. But saying that no one like him has done it before doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

BigBull17
09-08-2011, 12:30 PM
Out of the 2006 draft, who would you rather have?

Out of these, the only one i would consider would be Ngata, which wouldn't of lead to Okoye, which may of lead to Revis or Willis. I don't think Revis would of developed into what he is today, however.

*Queue butterfly effect

*only listing Probowlers, per Wiki

Williams, Mario† DT
Young, Vince † QB
Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT
Vernon Davis TE
Jay Cutler QB
Haloti Ngata DT
Antonio Cromartie† CB
Tamba Hali† LB
Davin Joseph† G
DeAngelo Williams RB
Mercedes Lewis TE
Nick Mangold C
Joseph Addai RB
(Demeco Ryans, already drafted) LB
Roman Harper S
Marcus McNeill OT
Greg Jennings WR
Devin Hester WR/R
MJJ RB
OD (alreadt drafted) TE
Jahri Evans G
Leon WashingtonRB
Stephen Gostowski K
Brandon Marshall WR
Elvis Dumerville DE
Kyle Williams DT
Antoine Bethea S
Cortland Finnegan CB

Haloti Ngata. Love Mario but Ngata is a beast.

Ole Miss Texan
09-08-2011, 12:31 PM
I like when Wade has him up on the line with his hand down. Is this your typical OLB position? probably not, but it puts Mario in the best position to get into the backfield quickest. Teams counter by running the opposite direction, this feeds them into the teeth of Wades defensive shifts. If Mario gets a sack or tackle behind the line of scrimmage that's a bonus, bottom line is there will be more three & outs than ever allowing Texan offense to rack up significantly more scoring plays which should translate into more wins :mario:
Great post, I agree with you too much BL. I love seeing Mario on the line of scrimmage. Whether we want to call this a 3-4, 4-3 or 5-2.... I still think Mario will be doing virtually the same thing. Maybe he stands up a little more, but it's not like he won't have his hand in the dirt either.

We're finally getting a really really solid front 7 unit. Mario, Watt, Smith, Barwin, Reed, et al... I hope we can find a stud NT this next draft and I hope we don't let these pieces get away. Build it and keep it.

El Tejano
09-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Eh...he sux!

dream_team
09-08-2011, 02:37 PM
1st, I disagree that TE's and lineman consistently lock him up. IMHO, a lot of people like to look at games and make determinations without knowing exactly what a player is trying to do. Often times D-linemen are asked to hold the point of attack in running situations. Exactly how many times have you seen Mario get pushed back and cleared out of the way?

This! ^^^

People will like to point at a video clip of Mario setting the edge, then say... "see! he can't even fight off that block." none of us really knows what defensive play was called in that situation. if Mario rushed the passer on every single down, offenses would simply call screens and draws his way. they have to mix it up to keep the offense guessing what he's going to do.

What makes Mario great is his versatility. He plays the run just as well as he rushes the passer... so why make him one dimensional?

DocBar
09-08-2011, 08:54 PM
Damn. Nobody was more against MW moving to WOLB than me, and I let it go. The people that know what they're talking about decided to move him there, so let it be and we'll all see what it will be. I'm just glad that Kubiak doesn;t have that "just sucked on a lemon" look that Peyton has. Yes, I'm watching the game and Green Bay just recovered a Saints fumble.

DocBar
01-07-2012, 08:30 PM
Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

ziggy29
01-07-2012, 08:39 PM
Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

At the start of this season I would have thought bringing Mario back was an absolute must. Seeing the emergence of other players on the D-line makes me backtrack a little from that. I still want him back if a deal can be made that makes the finances work, but I'm not sure a bank-breaking deal is worth it for the team at this point. And I think keeping him would require a below-market deal given the other signing needs and salary cap issues.

Nawzer
01-07-2012, 08:43 PM
Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

Well the Texans need to make an educated decision with MW. It can't just be a decision simply based on the hopes that guys like Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin will be even better next year. They need to research, analyze, and dissect every piece of information they have on MW and then make a decision. Personally, I think he'll be back for at least 1 more year, but with the money saved they can sign a good no.2 receiver, another pass rusher, and perhaps more help in the secondary. It's going to be a tough decision for Rick Smith to make. All we can hope for as fans is that the decision is made with due diligence.

DexmanC
01-07-2012, 08:43 PM
They ain't gonna let Mario walk for nothin. They'll franchise his ass first.
Could you imagine this guy with THIS defense next year? Who you gonna
double team at the line of scrimmage? They may average a sack-per-pass
attempt on defense with all the weapons the Texans will be bringing back.

fiasco west
01-07-2012, 08:45 PM
Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

Isn't Foster a RFA any ways? Foster isn't going any where, if anything he's looking like the franchise player on the offense.

I'd like to have Mario back. Sure Barwin has stepped in and done his thing but I think Mario is a different animal and with him we'd be one step closer to building a legendary defense. Also I think McNair will want Mario back, we know he can be a sympathetic guy and lets remember all the crap this team has taken because they picked Mario over Bush/VY...I don't see him just letting Mario walk. If Mario goes it's probably because a team opened up the bank to a number the Texans cap can't match.

I guess we'll see, it'll be the biggest story for this team in the offseason but I sure hope we won't have to think about it until February ;)

Goatcheese
01-07-2012, 08:46 PM
Mario is a 20 sack threat in Wade's scheme and is a mountain on run defense. BR has done well for a 2nd round pick, but he's not close to replacing a legitimate blue chip player. You don't just let an elite talent walk.

Foster is a RFA and we can keep him for peanuts.

pirbroke
01-07-2012, 08:50 PM
I would like to see him back at end, but watt ain't going nowhere and the ninja has been a assessing lately. It will be a tough offseason for Smith. I also wonder if Mario is healthy enough to play now, or at super bowl time. It would be a bummer if we reach super bowl and he is healthy but must stay in street clothes.

DocBar
01-07-2012, 08:51 PM
At the start of this season I would have thought bringing Mario back was an absolute must. Seeing the emergence of other players on the D-line makes me backtrack a little from that. I still want him back if a deal can be made that makes the finances work, but I'm not sure a bank-breaking deal is worth it for the team at this point. And I think keeping him would require a below-market deal given the other signing needs and salary cap issues.I was all for trading him in TC and PS then he played like a monster for the 1st few games. I'm for keeping him, but only if the price is right.

Well the Texans need to make an educated decision with MW. It can't just be a decision simply based on the hopes that guys like Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin will be even better next year. They need to research, analyze, and dissect every piece of information they have on MW and then make a decision. Personally, I think he'll be back for at least 1 more year, but with the money saved they can sign a good no.2 receiver, another pass rusher, and perhaps more help in the secondary. It's going to be a tough decision for Rick Smith to make. All we can hope for as fans is that the decision is made with due diligence.I think they were doing that when they drafted Reed. No one knew if MW could make the change, so the drafted some insurance that payed offf big time.

They ain't gonna let Mario walk for nothin. They'll franchise his ass first.
Could you imagine this guy with THIS defense next year? Who you gonna
double team at the line of scrimmage? They may average a sack-per-pass
attempt on defense with all the weapons the Texans will be bringing back.If they franchise him, do that do it at the OLB or DE position? Do they sign and trade him? If not, they're basically paying very high rent on a player for one season and that hurts the cap more than just letting him walk. If they had no intentions of letting him walk, they would've extended him in the PS.

thunderkyss
01-09-2012, 09:11 AM
Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.

That's why Richard Smith gets paid the big bucks.

I guarantee you Mario won't count more than $6M against our cap if we decide to keep him.

I've seen enough from our front 7 to be comfortable with the idea of moving forward without Mario. But if I had my rathers, we either sign Mario to a long term deal or draft someone early to replace him.

Brooks Reed & Connor Barwin are nice, but we're one injury away from having no pass rush.

amazing80
01-09-2012, 09:18 AM
I would like to see him back at end, but watt ain't going nowhere and the ninja has been a assessing lately. It will be a tough offseason for Smith. I also wonder if Mario is healthy enough to play now, or at super bowl time. It would be a bummer if we reach super bowl and he is healthy but must stay in street clothes.

i read that he is healthy to play next weekend. Not sure how good he would have been as not playing and not being in game shape would have affected him. So maybe it is a blessing we IRd him because we would have started him and Reed and Barwin are playing too good not to let them continue RIGHT NOW.

Long term, we need to figure out how to sign Mario, Foster and figure out if Yates is the guy, because Matt will be a free agent soon as well.

I think the best solution would be working out a deal with Mario and trading Ryans. Love the guy, but you can get a quality ILB for much cheaper and use the money on Foster. It is a tough choice either way, but this is what separates great perennial playoff teams, from the occasional run some teams make. This off-season will be a crazy one even if it means we sign no outside free agents.

Not to mention quality back-ups like Dresseen will most likely go elsewhere for more money.

Scooter
01-09-2012, 09:37 AM
what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

TexansBull
01-09-2012, 09:49 AM
Why would Mario want to stay here if Wade isn't here?

I think the Mario discussion is on hold until we see what Wade does. He said if they franchise him in the end he is a DE(more money) than a LB. He probably would want to be a DE instead of a LB if Wade isn't here. He knows Wade is a defensive genius and Wade was giving him the shot to be a Demarcus Ware type of player in this defense. Lets hope Wade stays because then our offseason gets more complicated.

ChampionTexan
01-09-2012, 09:54 AM
Why would Mario want to stay here if Wade isn't here?

I think the Mario discussion is on hold until we see what Wade does. He said if they franchise him in the end he is a DE(more money) than a LB. He probably would want to be a DE instead of a LB if Wade isn't here. He knows Wade is a defensive genius and Wade was giving him the shot to be a Demarcus Ware type of player in this defense. Lets hope Wade stays because then our offseason gets more complicated.

This has been said numerous times in these discussions, but if franchised, Mario will receive a tender of 120% of his 2011 salary. This number (whatever it is) is in excess of what the franchise amount will be for any defensive position, making that designation meaningless to both the Texans and Mario.

El Tejano
01-09-2012, 10:03 AM
I will say this. If there is anything we learned this season it is that you can't have enough depth on your team.

Yes, letting go of Mario would save us cap money or you could even sign and trade him and get some value but letting him go not only takes away a very good pass rusher but it also takes away our ability to have another experienced guy on the team.

As much as I think Dreesen is a great addition to this team. The ultimate teammate and player. I do believe that we spent a draft pick on Garret Graham and James Casey and I think they can do an adequate job or better.

Foster is a no brainer. You lock him up today.

beerlover
01-09-2012, 10:09 AM
If Colts can pay Manning then the #1 overall pick so can Texans at minimum pay Mario Williams.

amazing80
01-09-2012, 10:22 AM
If Colts can pay Manning then the #1 overall pick so can Texans at minimum pay Mario Williams.

Ya but the Colts have a ton of players coming off their books, like wayne and mathis more notably.

dalemurphy
01-09-2012, 10:29 AM
They ain't gonna let Mario walk for nothin. They'll franchise his ass first.
Could you imagine this guy with THIS defense next year? Who you gonna
double team at the line of scrimmage? They may average a sack-per-pass
attempt on defense with all the weapons the Texans will be bringing back.

They can't franchise tag him. He would cost $17 million against the cap. There is no way they can afford to do that. It is simply not possible.

TexansBull
01-09-2012, 10:53 AM
This has been said numerous times in these discussions, but if franchised, Mario will receive a tender of 120% of his 2011 salary. This number (whatever it is) is in excess of what the franchise amount will be for any defensive position, making that designation meaningless to both the Texans and Mario.

Thanks for correcting me, but thats not the point of my post. The point is Mario's choice to sign a long term deal or be adverse to getting franchised may be related to whether Wade is here or not.

DocBar
01-09-2012, 12:30 PM
what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.There are a lot more than just MW and AF being FA's this iffseason. Myers, Dreesen and Allen are also FA's. Remember, we're on the verge of maxing out our cap right now.

marks01234
01-09-2012, 09:51 PM
There are a lot more than just MW and AF being FA's this iffseason. Myers, Dreesen and Allen are also FA's. Remember, we're on the verge of maxing out our cap right now.

Mario takng up a big portion of the cap right now. We should be able to sign him long term and have a significant chunk free'd up right there. Enough to get Foster locked in.

Got to sign those guys. Franchise players. Keep them around and we can find the other pieces.

DocBar
01-09-2012, 09:55 PM
Mario takng up a big portion of the cap right now. We should be able to sign him long term and have a significant chunk free'd up right there. Enough to get Foster locked in.

Got to sign those guys. Franchise players. Keep them around and we can find the other pieces.IF MW is willing. Don't forget about draft picks, blah blah blah. It just isn't going to be that easy. I hope we can keep MW and see him blossom in the 3-4, but I just don't see it as economically feasible.

Texan_Bill
01-09-2012, 09:56 PM
Mario will be offered a lot more than he is worth here... That said, (and I like Mario a lot), he should go make some money on a 4-3 team...

Do I want him back, "Oh Hell Yeah"!! Signed Stoned Cold Steve Austin!!!!

VTexan
01-09-2012, 09:58 PM
We will sign Arian to a big time contract and franchise Mario.. as a linebacker

steelbtexan
01-09-2012, 10:27 PM
what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

Mr teX
01-10-2012, 01:36 AM
I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.


This is absurd. Dude has been your only stalwart on defense for years, he finally gets a competent d-coord. & begins to flourish & then you say peace out to him/ make him earn his job back? :kubepalm:


He needs to be brought back & should be. Reed has stepped in & done OK, but i've seen nothing to indicate he's the 2nd coming of Kevin Greene or even CM III. I'd like to see more before i say goodbye to a bonafide stud edge rusher in Mario.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but i think the odd man out should be Ryans. Not only for the reasons he stated, but also b/c he comes off the field anyway in most 3rd & long passing situations & is obviously a liability in coverage. One of the reasons people want Reed over Mario is b/c of his versatility to cover the pass. Well, If i'm wade i put that to the test.

I ask Reed to drop about 10-15 lbs, pair him up with Sharpton in the offseason (competition) & see how he looks at the other MLB spot alongside Cush next year. This gets he & Mario on the field together & we see if Reed is in fact the real deal. We'd also get to see what we really have in Braman as well since he'd then be Mario/Barwin's main back up.

If it doesn't work, well you can always kick Mario back down to DE & slide Reed back over to OLB. Sharpton can then step in alongside Cush.

Clamp
01-10-2012, 03:05 AM
This is absurd. Dude has been your only stalwart on defense for years, he finally gets a competent d-coord. & begins to flourish & then you say peace out to him/ make him earn his job back? :kubepalm:


He needs to be brought back & should be. Reed has stepped in & done OK, but i've seen nothing to indicate he's the 2nd coming of Kevin Greene or even CM III. I'd like to see more before i say goodbye to a bonafide stud edge rusher in Mario.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but i think the odd man out should be Ryans. Not only for the reasons he stated, but also b/c he comes off the field anyway in most 3rd & long passing situations & is obviously a liability in coverage. One of the reasons people want Reed over Mario is b/c of his versatility to cover the pass. Well, If i'm wade i put that to the test.

I ask Reed to drop about 10-15 lbs, pair him up with Sharpton in the offseason (competition) & see how he looks at the other MLB spot alongside Cush next year. This gets he & Mario on the field together & we see if Reed is in fact the real deal. We'd also get to see what we really have in Braman as well since he'd then be Mario/Barwin's main back up.

If it doesn't work, well you can always kick Mario back down to DE & slide Reed back over to OLB. Sharpton can then step in alongside Cush.

I agree with you for the most part, but I don't know how Reed would do moving inside. He was a defensive end in college so he is already a conversion player moving to OLB, so moving inside where he would have many more responsibilities is yet another BIG change for him especially in only his second year. He may be able to do it, but its asking a lot and most guys who have walked his path would not be successfull doing that I dont think.

Allstar
01-10-2012, 03:16 AM
They can't franchise tag him. He would cost $17 million against the cap. There is no way they can afford to do that. It is simply not possible.

You sound an awful lot like a certain not-so-liked Chronicle reporter before we went after Asomugha. Remember-- the Jets went into last offseason with not much cap room to speak of, signed Holmes to a $50 million deal and then had the cheese to sign Nnamdi.

The salary cap is a funny thing, and has been worked many different ways in the past. I would not be surprised in the least if the Texans worked a few contracts in a way that allowed us to franchise Mario and sign Foster. I'm not saying that's what I prefer to happen, but I've learned in the past that assuming things about the cap can be rather pointless.

fiasco west
01-10-2012, 05:07 AM
I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

And what about the first few weeks without Foster? Did it say volumes about what Foster is worth?

No, but it was a few people who thought Foster was 'replaceable' because Tate played well. Now that Foster is healthy and beasting out there no one would dare say that. Tate was the guy that was getting stuffed last Saturday...Imagine if we didn't have Foster and just Tate for that Bengals game...

The same applies here. Just because the defense has been great without Mario doesn't mean they aren't BETTER with him. It's not like when Mario was on the field the defense sucked. If anything the front 7 got great pressure when he was on the field.

Also Reed is taking Barwin's old spot. Barwin is the guy who has actually replaced Mario.

I dunno bout anyone else but Mario, Cushing, Ryans, and Barwin sounds like the best group of LBs in the NFL. Not mind that Reed and Sharpton (still have faith in that guy) can sub in and out and keep guys fresh.

dalemurphy
01-10-2012, 06:23 AM
We will sign Arian to a big time contract and franchise Mario.. as a linebacker

His franchise tag will still be $17 million, because anyone tagged is guaranteed a 20% increase over the previous season.

dalemurphy
01-10-2012, 06:29 AM
You sound an awful lot like a certain not-so-liked Chronicle reporter before we went after Asomugha. Remember-- the Jets went into last offseason with not much cap room to speak of, signed Holmes to a $50 million deal and then had the cheese to sign Nnamdi.

The salary cap is a funny thing, and has been worked many different ways in the past. I would not be surprised in the least if the Texans worked a few contracts in a way that allowed us to franchise Mario and sign Foster. I'm not saying that's what I prefer to happen, but I've learned in the past that assuming things about the cap can be rather pointless.

First of all, signing Holmes and bidding on Asomugha is much different. Any deal can be manipulated and back-ended to make it relatively inexpensive in the short term. Franchise tags are quite different. That number is a hard number. Remember, the Texans are right up against the cap and had to reconfigure contracts to get Manning and Joseph done. They can get a little relief by extending Schaub but they also have guys like Myers, Dreessen, Duane Brown, not to mention Foster (whom they promised a new deal after this season) that they need to re-sign or extend for numbers north of their previous deals.

If the Texans are going to keep Mario, they will have to sign him to a long term deal. I would love to keep Mario via the franchise tag but it's not plausible. It's cut him loose or pay him for another 5 or 6 years. That is the only decision to make if the franchise number everyone is reporting for him is close to accurate.

amazing80
01-10-2012, 07:50 AM
On another board a poster said he read from an insider on twitter a few weeks back that you can no longer franchise a player then trade them, per the new cba rules.......has anyone else heard about this or have a link so I can search? I know someone posted the CBA agreement on here before, so can someone link me to it again please.....

gafftop
01-10-2012, 08:13 AM
Re: The Mario Issue, Let's look at it in another way

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gafftop 4/19/11
Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion. "

12/20/11 Update on Mario situation

Here we are almost exactly 8 months from the above post. Took a lot of negative hits from this thread I started. Here we are now and where do we stand? It was my feeling that no matter what happened we would be in a bad place with Mario once the season was over.

I am reading on other threads that we trade Mario now for this and/or that. Someone please explain how we do this? Isn't he a free agent? I think we missed our chance to get something of value for MW. I still thinks he WALKS with us getting nothing but the PITY pick/consolation pick/Dunta pick etc.

Why do I think we get nothing? I don't think we can " non-exclusive " franchise and expect anyone to offer anything for Mario if it means them giving up high round draft choices. I don't think we outright franchise him because he is not worth what we would need to pay him. We can transition tag him but correct me if I am wrong, if we don't match we get nothing.

Anyone watch the game last night. Anyone see Aldon Smith. Anyone think Mario is better. I am sure there are.

Somebody make me feel better and explain how we come out of this deal whole.

I can't help but think where this team would be now if a trade would have been made and we had a real 1b WR and another real CB.

The great teams stay great by always increasing overall talent VALUE. We will lose overall value if we keep Mario or we lose overall value if we let Mario walk.

I really am ecstatic with the Texans season. It may not seem like that but I am. I just have this feeling that we could be a whole lot better if a trade was made.

You asked for it and there it is.

I think the outcome of this Mario situation will be a major factor in the future of the Texans. I think the best outcome has passed us by. That being trading him while we still had rights. We rolled the dice but my feelings were they would come up snake eyes no matter what in reference to long term. Our best situation would have been for him to play like Bruce Smith and stay healthy and help us go deep in playoffs .

Someone again please explain how we trade him and get something for him in the off season. I am just not seeing it.

1/10/12
Tired of rehashing this issue, so I just copy what was posted 9 months ago in the top section of this post.

Go Texans.

thunderkyss
01-10-2012, 08:23 AM
I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

I don't think too many people thought our defense was goin to suck without Mario Williams I'm one of the biggest "keep Mario" proponents & I've never thought our defense would suck without Mario.

But to this day, I think we would ave a better defense with Mario than without. Yes, I think we would have the #1 defense with Mario, by a good margin.

Next year when we play more competent offenses, like Greenbay, Detroit, Chicago, New England, Miami... A better Colts team, Jags, & TItans... I'd rather have that extra edge rusher.

thunderkyss
01-10-2012, 10:36 AM
You sound an awful lot like a certain not-so-liked Chronicle reporter before we went after Asomugha. Remember-- the Jets went into last offseason with not much cap room to speak of, signed Holmes to a $50 million deal and then had the cheese to sign Nnamdi.

The salary cap is a funny thing, and has been worked many different ways in the past. I would not be surprised in the least if the Texans worked a few contracts in a way that allowed us to franchise Mario and sign Foster. I'm not saying that's what I prefer to happen, but I've learned in the past that assuming things about the cap can be rather pointless.

I'm honestly a little curious as to why the Texans didn't do something with Mario's contract this past offseason. I know they were moving him to another position, but they should know what they have in Mario & what they are going to get from him.

If they franchise him, that tells me they aren't as confident in Mario as I am.

gafftop
01-10-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm honestly a little curious as to why the Texans didn't do something with Mario's contract this past offseason. I know they were moving him to another position, but they should know what they have in Mario & what they are going to get from him.
If they franchise him, that tells me they aren't as confident in Mario as I am.


What does it tell you if they let him walk.

My guess is they know what they have in Mario and they try to move him ( even though I think the chances are very slim and that option is over) or he walks. Someone with more knowledge may be able to explain how the new franchise levels work but based on the old ones I don't think the Texans will franchise him, they just can't afford to. Plus I don't think the demand out in the league is high for Mario, plus what leverage do the Texans have on Mario. I am sure they talked to Mario during the off season but he probably wanted to test FA.

The Texans rolled the dice on him and again I think the best outcome would have been if he stayed healthy and played to an All Pro caliber and still I think the Texans would have had a dilemma in regards with what to do about Mario in the upcoming season.

I don't think the odds were very good on rolling the dice and keeping Mario this season vs trading him.

Very interested to see how it all ends. I think Mario will not break the bank where ever he ends up. Just my opinion.

badboy
01-10-2012, 12:14 PM
what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

There is just no way you can know this. You do not have any idea of how well a draft pick can be. For example Donta Hightower and Vinn Curry could be Demeco Ryans and Mario Williams. You admit you guessed wron about Mario transitioning and you could be wrong here also. I am not advocatging a trade but would consider offers before saying yes or no.

infantrycak
01-10-2012, 01:18 PM
Quick comparison to a team looking at retaining their best pass rusher:

JJ Watt - 2.6 mil
Antonio Smith - 8 mil
Conner Barwin - $585k
Shaun Cody - $2.25 mil
Mario - ?

Corey Williams - 6 mil
Ndamukong Suh - 9.25 mil (salary only, couldn't find bonuses)
Kyle Vanden Bosch - 5.9 mil
Cliff Avril - ?

DL and OLB's Texans - $13.44 mil + Mario
DL Detroit - $21.15 mil

badboy
01-10-2012, 03:30 PM
Quick comparison to a team looking at retaining their best pass rusher:

JJ Watt - 2.6 mil
Antonio Smith - 8 mil
Conner Barwin - $585k
Shaun Cody - $2.25 mil
Mario - ?

Corey Williams - 6 mil
Ndamukong Suh - 9.25 mil (salary only, couldn't find bonuses)
Kyle Vanden Bosch - 5.9 mil
Cliff Avril - ?

DL and OLB's Texans - $13.44 mil + Mario
DL Detroit - $21.15 milSmith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

nero THE zero
01-10-2012, 03:38 PM
Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

Yes (http://rivals.yahoo.com/wisconsin/football/recruiting/player-Derek-Watt-108050).

Derek Watt
Outside linebacker
Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Pewaukee
View Map
Ht:6'2"
Wt:215 lbs
Bench Max:315
Squat Max:450
Shuttle:4.3
Class:2011 (High School)

gafftop
01-10-2012, 04:09 PM
Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

Does the bonus they receive never go against the cap? I have a hard time believing it never counts against the cap. Someone please explain. Thanks

badboy
01-10-2012, 05:03 PM
Does the bonus they receive never go against the cap? I have a hard time believing it never counts against the cap. Someone please explain. ThanksBonuses are different but when speaking in general bonus is considered "upfront" money that player gets to sign the contract. The amount is averaged over the deal. For example Smith's $12.5m over 5 yrs was subtracted from his total deal of $35.5m. His annual salary can then be divided however agent and team chooses. The bonus is divided over deal= $12.5m divided by 5= $2.5m added to each year's salary. Smith's for 2011 was $4.6 + $2.5= $7.1m total cap hit. 2012: $5.5m + 2.5= $8m. If a player is traded the entire remaining amount is applied against team total cap next season. To clarify, the total bonus "up front" is subtracted from total contract amount to get true "salary costs". $35.5m - 12.5m= $23 million over 5 years + the prorated avg of $2.5m.

This is why I believe Texans will be able to sign Mario if they choose. Dunta Robinson signed for $7m bonus BUT $25.5 m guaranteed. A combo of SMith and DR's deal for Mario: 6 year $72m with $20m upfront and first 3 seasons guaranteed.

$72m- $20(bonus)= $52m salary.
$20m divided by 6(years)= $3.4m annual cap hit. Here is where it gets good. We backload the 6 years say 1. $3m 2. $3m 3. $3m Now he has $20m in his pocket + $9m for 3 years guaranteed. The cap is $3.4( bonus)+ $3m salary = $6.4m for three seasons. His 2011 cap was $15m and we now have the difference of almost $9million.

In 2013, the new television monster deal with NFL kicks in with an extra $3Billion to be divided among 32 teams.

Mario remaining 3 seasons: $52m- $9m (1st 3 seasons)=$43m divided by remain 3 seasons = $14m which is where he stands for 2011.

Ole Miss Texan
01-10-2012, 05:40 PM
babboy is headed in the right direction, as usual.

Keep in mind the salary cap should be increasing over the next several years. So while we were close to it this year, next year may be a different story. It will be very interesting to watch this transpire.

infantrycak
01-10-2012, 05:43 PM
Does the bonus they receive never go against the cap? I have a hard time believing it never counts against the cap. Someone please explain. Thanks

Bonuses all eventually count against the cap. The variation is in timing of the cap accounting. Signing bonuses are pro-rated over the lifetime of the contract. Roster bonuses are accounted for in the cap for the league year in which they are paid.

PapaL
01-10-2012, 05:51 PM
Mario's contract is going to be the Giant White Elephant in the room whenever our off-season starts.

Rey
01-10-2012, 05:53 PM
Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

I can't think of the guy's name, but there is a player from SMU that I really like as a late round draft pick.

I've also mocked Jared Crick as I think he could be good value if he slips because of his inury.