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View Full Version : CAN Schaub take a hit?!


Dread-Head
12-02-2007, 03:45 PM
Schaub isn't a bad QB, but this is the second time this season I've seen the man time I've seen the man get hit and get removed from a game. David Carr wasn't the greatest QB, but he COULD take a hit. Schaub has taken some hits true, but it seems that it doesn't take much for a defense to remove him. Am I being too critical of the man or does he just need to toughen up a bit?

stingray
12-02-2007, 03:52 PM
It's starting to look like he's brittle. Gingerbread man...

TheIronDuke
12-02-2007, 03:55 PM
I dunno, if it comes back that he broke his left arm or something then he's obviously not just a puss.

That being said, with this OL he's going to get hit a lot. It's not like he goes out every time he gets hit but he's obviously not as tough as Carr was.

Whatever happens, with the injury bug constantly biting our OL we had better invest draft picks and a lot of money on the FA for the damn OL once and for all.

nut
12-02-2007, 04:00 PM
No.

stingray
12-02-2007, 04:06 PM
I dunno, if it comes back that he broke his left arm or something then he's obviously not just a puss.

That being said, with this OL he's going to get hit a lot. It's not like he goes out every time he gets hit but he's obviously not as tough as Carr was.

Whatever happens, with the injury bug constantly biting our OL we had better invest draft picks and a lot of money on the FA for the damn OL once and for all.

This OL has played very good this year. They were #7 overall in giving up sacks. Yes, they are injured, but schaub hasn't been hit that much this year.

TheIronDuke
12-02-2007, 04:09 PM
Yeah but how many hits has he taken?

I agree that he gets hurt a lot but it just takes one hit in the right spot to put someone out. Towards the end here Carr would go into the fetal position, I don't want Schaub doing that.

adam
12-02-2007, 04:12 PM
You're right about one thing: For all of his faults (and let's face it, he had to many to be a starting QB for any team), Carr could take an ass whooping when a defense would bring him a full can of it.

Schaub has potential to be a good QB, but I am beginning to wonder if he has what it takes to be a full time starter. He is very brittle and lacks the mental strength in clutch situations. He is a good bandage, but I am not sure if he is the future of this football team.

OzzO
12-02-2007, 04:13 PM
'cause Carr would fall just before the defense got to him, thus lessening the blow.

Hagar
12-02-2007, 04:16 PM
I don't know if Schaub is a wuss, but I can tell you that this team isn't going to move forward until it fixes the line problems on both sides of the ball.

run-david-run
12-02-2007, 04:16 PM
you just need one good hit to knock someone out. landing on your shoulder with a 280 lbs man on you will mess your arm up now matter how tough you are.

GP
12-02-2007, 04:24 PM
This OL has played very good this year. They were #7 overall in giving up sacks. Yes, they are injured, but schaub hasn't been hit that much this year.

A post I can agree with.

I'm off the Schaub wagon.

In today's NFL, you don't need 2-3 seasons to see if someone's going to make it.

Schaub needs perfect protection to get the ball away. He began the year showing that he could eek out of some pressure and get the ball away, and since the 2nd game of the season...he's been unable to do that.

I argues with people when they said Schaub was immobile. But they were right on the money--Schaub is sluggish getting away from the center, giving the dline an added advantage on the pass rush. Then, he's not showing the ability to sense the blindside pressure.

Even VY (as awful a QB as he is, IMO) was able to side-step the pressure and get the ball away.

Kubiak is probably regretting NOT putting his name in the hat for the A&M jobl. He probably would have been the better option for A&M.

junior
12-02-2007, 04:24 PM
'cause Carr would fall just before the defense got to him, thus lessening the blow.

it wasnt until season 4 of ass whoopins that he started doing that. this isnt even 1 full season and he has been on the sideline a bunch.

can we get a refund on those 2 2nd rounders.

sage the starter , carr the back up, 2 second rounders, and $47 million richer would have been better than what we have got so far.

adam
12-02-2007, 04:25 PM
'cause Carr would fall just before the defense got to him, thus lessening the blow.

A lot of times, yes. However, I've seen Carr get the crap knocked out of him plenty of times. Most of which he would just get up and keep going. Don't get me wrong, there isn't a time in which I've ever wanted Carr back...but I could only wish that Matt was as durable.

Spled
12-02-2007, 04:26 PM
Hopefully with a better o-line, Schaub will take less blind hits.

GP
12-02-2007, 04:27 PM
it wasnt until season 4 of ass whoopins that he started doing that. this isnt even 1 full season and he has been on the sideline a bunch.

can we get a refund on those 2 2nd rounders.

sage the starter , carr the back up, 2 second rounders, and $47 million richer would have been better than what we have got so far.

Gotta agree.

This is beginning to look like another dark cloud over our team.

I suspect the boards will be smoldering, charred, and in ruins when this season is over. There will be no end to the debate about how to fix this team.

HoustonFrog
12-02-2007, 04:29 PM
it wasnt until season 4 of ass whoopins that he started doing that. this isnt even 1 full season and he has been on the sideline a bunch.

can we get a refund on those 2 2nd rounders.

sage the starter , carr the back up, 2 second rounders, and $47 million richer would have been better than what we have got so far.

Why the hell would you even want Carr back on the team. He wasn't even listed as the backup in Carolina today. Not only that but we would have to hear people say he should be playing still. No thanks. i like Schaub. I don't think someone is soft when they are just getting things dislocated or broken. I think Carr knew how to take a hit...maybe laying down, but I'd still rather have Schaub. The first time I'm all for drafting O-line high and getting it right. I mean is Favre a wuss and he got knocked out the other game. Its more a matter of how you are hit and where you land. This debate almost makes the board unbearable at times. JMO..people mneed to be more even keel on this whole thing.

rollinstone18
12-02-2007, 04:30 PM
maybe he needs to drink more milk

Brandon420tx
12-02-2007, 04:32 PM
I think of it this way:
Opposing defenses benefitted more with Carr in the game, so they put their effort into NOT hurting him when they gently lowered his instinctedly limp body to the turf.

Now defenses treat our QBs like a real QB, and they go head-hunting.

TEXANRED
12-02-2007, 04:33 PM
Schaub reminds me of Chris Chnandler. He is a good QB that cant stay healthy, thus all the teams save one, have done poorly.

Thorn
12-02-2007, 04:35 PM
Schaub appears to be an injury prone QB, and when you put someone like that behind our line, it's a reciepe for disaster. I don't know. I started out this season hating the Schaub trade, and then changed my mind and became a Schaub supporter. I reserve the right to change my mind again, but I'm waiting to see how the season plays out.

8-8 is not going to happen this year. We are losers once again.

But I still say we are in better shape now than we were a year ago at this time. There has been improvement in this team. The fact that we were dangling the playoffs before our eyes at one point in time this season proves that.

Another off season of trades and draft picks, and we'll be a better team. Again. But this year it's really true.

HoustonFrog
12-02-2007, 04:36 PM
Here is my theory...to add on to above.

Carr was never a good QB and didn't have the QBing skills for the NFL but took the hits. The line didn't help/

Schaub has all the moxy and skills we need but has been hurt. Still has made plays downfield despite line but they don't help.

Get an O-line finally and see if we can make the guy who actually can play stay upright and help us out.

As for Schaubs toughness, from what I heard he played most of the first half of the season with bruised and battered linbs.

TEXANRED
12-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Here is my theory...to add on to above.

Carr was never a good QB and didn't have the QBing skills for the NFL but took the hits. The line didn't help/

Schaub has all the moxy and skills we need but has been hurt. Still has made plays downfield despite line but they don't help.

Get an O-line finally and see if we can make the guy who actually can play stay upright and help us out.

As for Schaubs toughness, from what I heard he played most of the first half of the season with bruised and battered linbs.
IMO I believe Schaub is fragile and no matter how good he can be, a QB that rides the pine b/c he is always hurt is a useless good QB.

Some people are just more prone to injuries than other. For example Adrian Peterson seems to always get hurt.

Runner
12-02-2007, 05:12 PM
This OL has played very good this year. They were #7 overall in giving up sacks. Yes, they are injured, but schaub hasn't been hit that much this year.

No, Schaub performed as advertised and made them look better. He's now starting to look nervous in the pocket at times and getting hurt. Go figure.

This team so rarely has a good passing and a good running game during the same game, I don't see why this line is "very good".

TexansSeminole
12-02-2007, 05:14 PM
Being #7 in sacks allowed doesn't account for the fact that Schaub gets rid of the ball abnormally quick on alot of plays and also the perception of a sack. If you know that Salaam can't block for more than 3 seconds, your going to mentally feel it coming.

BSofA04
12-02-2007, 05:25 PM
Look guys, whatever happened to Schaub, it couldn't have come at a worse time. We need to be able to beat the Titans and the fact that Schaub can't finish a game against them looks really bad, not matter how you slice it. He's show that he can be a major force and a more consitent pocket passer than Carr but for ****** sake....you have to be able to beat the Titans!!! I'm just irrate that Schaub couldn't finish the game. I've looked forward to redemtion for a whole year and we lay a ******* egg. I still have faith in Schaub but his physical toughness is in question. My gosh man, it's only 17 sacks in 12 games, let's go Schaubby!!!!!!!!!

nunusguy
12-02-2007, 05:38 PM
I still have faith in Schaub but his physical toughness is in question. My gosh man, it's only 17 sacks in 12 games, let's go Schaubby!!!!!!!!!
I agree, it's a fair question and a valid concern.

austintexanite
12-02-2007, 05:44 PM
Right when I saw him go down I was thinking the same thing. He did land on the shoulder, so it didn't surprise me that he got hurt. I think he can take a hit, but I don't think he can take someone llanding on his shoulder.

junior
12-02-2007, 06:05 PM
Why the hell would you even want Carr back on the team. He wasn't even listed as the backup in Carolina today. Not only that but we would have to hear people say he should be playing still. No thanks. i like Schaub. I don't think someone is soft when they are just getting things dislocated or broken. I think Carr knew how to take a hit...maybe laying down, but I'd still rather have Schaub. The first time I'm all for drafting O-line high and getting it right. I mean is Favre a wuss and he got knocked out the other game. Its more a matter of how you are hit and where you land. This debate almost makes the board unbearable at times. JMO..people mneed to be more even keel on this whole thing.

thats a great point ,favre hasnt missed a game in 13 years or something and ours has, great comparison.

and yes i would rather have carr as a back up this year plus 2 2nd rounders and all those millions. i thought then and still think that money was better spent somewhere else.

i hope i am proven wrong and i will say when i am but as of now its my opinion that i havent.

BSofA04
12-02-2007, 06:12 PM
thats a great point ,favre hasnt missed a game in 13 years or something and ours has, great comparison.

and yes i would rather have carr as a back up this year plus 2 2nd rounders and all those millions. i thought then and still think that money was better spent somewhere else.

i hope i am proven wrong and i will say when i am but as of now its my opinion that i havent.

If Carr was our backup, who'd be our starter???? Rosenfels, Quinn, maybe even Carr????

Hooray for mediocrity (barely)! Seriously man, do you till think that Carr or a backup QB is the answer for our offense? No doubt we gave up some picks for Schaub, but it's safe to say that his poise in games has led to some victories. Had the previous regime/rookie QB been in, it would be insane in Houston. Your point won't hold any weight as long as Schaub continues to prove to Houston that he is a major upgrade, with half the learning curve. I do respect your opinion though.

The1ApplePie
12-02-2007, 06:30 PM
Brady Quinn + 2 second rounders is better than Fragile Matty

TexansSeminole
12-02-2007, 06:33 PM
Brady Quinn + 2 second rounders is better than Fragile Matty

This argument can't be justified because Brady Quinn hasn't played in the NFL.

junior
12-02-2007, 06:35 PM
If Carr was our backup, who'd be our starter???? Rosenfels, Quinn, maybe even Carr????

Hooray for mediocrity (barely)! Seriously man, do you till think that Carr or a backup QB is the answer for our offense? No doubt we gave up some picks for Schaub, but it's safe to say that his poise in games has led to some victories. Had the previous regime/rookie QB been in, it would be insane in Houston. Your point won't hold any weight as long as Schaub continues to prove to Houston that he is a major upgrade, with half the learning curve. I do respect your opinion though.

no i dont go read the first post, and you're right hooray for mediocrity. oh never mind we need 2 more wins for that.

major upgrade? 9 td 9 int and 5-7 vs. 10 td and 7 int and 4-8 last year. $47 million well spent i say.

BSofA04
12-02-2007, 06:45 PM
no i dont go read the first post, and you're right hooray for mediocrity. oh never mind we need 2 more wins for that.

major upgrade? 9 td 9 int and 5-7 vs. 10 td and 7 int and 4-8 last year. $47 million well spent i say.

Do you want me to bust out the carr stats this season? Again, your argument holds no weight. 'Nuff said.

ArlingtonTexan
12-02-2007, 06:48 PM
Staying on the field is a major part of being in the NFL. Whether unlucky or not right now there is a question as to whether or Schaub is going to be able to that.

junior
12-02-2007, 06:51 PM
Do you want me to bust out the carr stats this season? Again, your argument holds no weight.

that makes no sense, i am comparing qb's for the texans.

i swear some people only hear what they want to hear. go find 1 of my posts where i say carr is better than schaub, i say he is not a major upgrade, and your opinions are just that, all i gave you was facts. we can argue our opinions all day but RIGHT NOW the facts are that he is an upgrade , but not a major one.

BSofA04
12-02-2007, 07:00 PM
that makes no sense, i am comparing qb's for the texans.

i swear some people only hear what they want to hear. go find 1 of my posts where i say carr is better than schaub, i say he is not a major upgrade, and your opinions are just that, all i gave you was facts. we can argue our opinions all day but RIGHT NOW the facts are that he is an upgrade , but not a major one.

But that was the basis for my previous post. Who would YOU rather have at QB???? Quinn, VY, Carr, Rosenfels or Schaub? I'd say the Schaub is a more polished passer than all of them and has a higher upside.

I understand that you don't think Schaub is a major upgrade, but my point is that he is. Consider the alternatives.

junior
12-02-2007, 07:33 PM
But that was the basis for my previous post. Who would YOU rather have at QB???? Quinn, VY, Carr, Rosenfels or Schaub? I'd say the Schaub is a more polished passer than all of them and has a higher upside.

just my opinion but i will take sage for now with those 2 2nd rounders and the money back. but thats all fantasy now.

this has been my opinion from the start, but i bet you would have to admit that to this point schaub has been a disappointment compared the hype and expectations that we all had.

make no mistake about this is all subject to change, he can turn out to be everything we were told he was or maybe this is it. and if it is then thats not good for the money and picks invested.

my opinion is not set, meaning that if he proves to be great i will say it and say i was wrong, but i didnt like the move and from what i have seen through 3/4 of the first season i still don't.

dskillz
12-02-2007, 07:39 PM
maybe he needs to drink more milk


This might be the post of the year.

adam
12-02-2007, 07:48 PM
I'm willing to give Schaub another season, seeing as how this is his first season of a starter. He has shown moments of brilliance, and he has shown moments of complete ineptitude. I think he should get at least one more season, if only because there will be no adequate replacements for him in free agency next season (unless y'all would like to have Carr back on the roster).

With all of that said, the one thing that I am not willing to do is sit back for 5 years and watch a QB struggle. My patience is running thin, I don't want any more 5 year plans.

TexansSeminole
12-02-2007, 07:51 PM
Everybody gets injured. It's too bad for Schaub. Things could be alot better next year for Schaub. His receivers will have more experience, hopefully they can remain healthy. Maybe we will have some new offensive lineman and some new running backs would be nice.

He got some pretty good experience this year. Started 11 games. Played what, 8 or 9 all the way through? I am assuming he is done for the year.

Schaub's stats for the year:

192/289 66.4% 2,241 yards 7.8 yards/attempt 9 TD 9 INT 16 sacks 7 fumble 3 lost. 87.2 Rating. 11 games played.

He is an upgrade at every aspect of quarterbacking over the last quarterback we had if you ask me. He had a pretty good first year starting. He made some clear mistakes, but did a hell of alot of good things to go with that. Schaub is one of the main reasons that some people can call our WR corps strong, or somewhat strong.

I'd also like to add that he had eight 200 yard passing games. Started the season with 6 of them in a row.

fikster
12-02-2007, 07:57 PM
Schaub appears to be an injury prone QB, and when you put someone like that behind our line, it's a reciepe for disaster. I don't know. I started out this season hating the Schaub trade, and then changed my mind and became a Schaub supporter. I reserve the right to change my mind again, but I'm waiting to see how the season plays out.

8-8 is not going to happen this year. We are losers once again.

But I still say we are in better shape now than we were a year ago at this time. There has been improvement in this team. The fact that we were dangling the playoffs before our eyes at one point in time this season proves that.

Another off season of trades and draft picks, and we'll be a better team. Again. But this year it's really true.

Kubes, is that you?

ObsiWan
12-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Brady Quinn + 2 second rounders is better than Fragile Matty

And you base that on what, EXACTLY? Given that Quinn can't beat out Derek Anderson.

question #2: How do you know that Quinn wouldn't be just as or more "fragile" than some of you say Schaub is?

Now, having said that, I fall back to my std Schaub statement: Yes, he is two 2nd round picks better than Carr. I'm not yet convinced he's two 2nd round picks better than Sage.

fikster
12-02-2007, 08:14 PM
Does anyone else see the flaw in this whole thread? Everyone is talking about an upgrade over Carr? Are you kidding me. Anyone is better than Carr, even a 44 year old who was sitting at home enjoying retirement.

This team should be better. Schaub has lost us games as well as won a few. He is fragile. Very, very fragile. The line has done a pretty good job this year considering the injuries.

I am just tired of the Denver mentality. We need to get our own and quit thinking about how they would have handled it in Denver. It is time for Kubes to get his own identity.

HoustonFrog
12-03-2007, 09:45 AM
thats a great point ,favre hasnt missed a game in 13 years or something and ours has, great comparison.

and yes i would rather have carr as a back up this year plus 2 2nd rounders and all those millions. i thought then and still think that money was better spent somewhere else.

i hope i am proven wrong and i will say when i am but as of now its my opinion that i havent.

I'm just saying people take hits.

All those millions?The investment of guaranteed money isn't even that bad...7 million. We were going to draft a QB so there is one 2nd rounder. You'd rather have Carr and all the questions and infighting we dealt with for years?That is ridiculous. You forget that we are going to get a break on his salary too. That guy isn't even close to Schaub. I' don't like the injuries but if you don't think he has looked good despite losing his #1 receiver and center you aren't watching football or you are with a jaded eye.

Texans_Chick
12-03-2007, 10:37 AM
Staying on the field is a major part of being in the NFL. Whether unlucky or not right now there is a question as to whether or Schaub is going to be able to that.

Fair point.

I also think the coaching staff didn't do him any favors. The Texans throw the ball a lot in circumstances where they don't need to. That is a dangerous approach to take with a Haynesworth-included Titan defensive line that has played very well against the league and the Texans in particular.

An example, proving my point:

It's 2nd and 3, sloppy weather, and Schaub tries to get a ball off and gets hit in the hand as he is throwing the ball. Even if that isn't killing him, you might want to run the next play just to give him and the line more of a breather put the Titans more on their heels.

So then it is 3rd and 3, the Titans bring it, and Schaub gets crushed on the blindside.

They give lip service to the running game and then they don't run in circumstances where they can.

I like the sets where they run when the wide receivers/tight ends are spread, and not so much running that power I crap, because the Texans line is not going to overpower many opposing lines when those guys know you are more likely than not going to run.

Anybody playing the quarterback position for the Texans is going to be vulnerable until the Texans get a legitimate take-it-to-the-house, consistent positive yardage threat at the running back position. Dayne is doing an admirable job with his skill sets, but defenses know what he can't do.

Brett Favre and Tom Brady can sorta make do without much of a running game, but they are pretty unique guys combined with a defense that can hold down the fort without a time chewing running game. And even Favre is going to be hard pressed to come back from the pasting he took from the Cowboys.

For the rest of the season the Texans are in survival mode. Kubiak last spring in SI spoke the truth that the Texans were going to need a few more offseasons to get their rosters more playoff caliber. But they also need some huge luck--hoping that the decent players they already have don't get killed before that happens.

/still bummed about Dunta, now bummed about Weary

HoustonFrog
12-03-2007, 10:50 AM
Fair point.

I also think the coaching staff didn't do him any favors. The Texans throw the ball a lot in circumstances where they don't need to. That is a dangerous approach to take with a Haynesworth-included Titan defensive line that has played very well against the league and the Texans in particular.

An example, proving my point:

It's 2nd and 3, sloppy weather, and Schaub tries to get a ball off and gets hit in the hand as he is throwing the ball. Even if that isn't killing him, you might want to run the next play just to give him and the line more of a breather put the Titans more on their heels.

So then it is 3rd and 3, the Titans bring it, and Schaub gets crushed on the blindside.

They give lip service to the running game and then they don't run in circumstances where they can.

I like the sets where they run when the wide receivers/tight ends are spread, and not so much running that power I crap, because the Texans line is not going to overpower many opposing lines when those guys know you are more likely than not going to run.

Anybody playing the quarterback position for the Texans is going to be vulnerable until the Texans get a legitimate take-it-to-the-house, consistent positive yardage threat at the running back position. Dayne is doing an admirable job with his skill sets, but defenses know what he can't do.

Brett Favre and Tom Brady can sorta make do without much of a running game, but they are pretty unique guys combined with a defense that can hold down the fort without a time chewing running game. And even Favre is going to be hard pressed to come back from the pasting he took from the Cowboys.

For the rest of the season the Texans are in survival mode. Kubiak last spring in SI spoke the truth that the Texans were going to need a few more offseasons to get their rosters more playoff caliber. But they also need some huge luck--hoping that the decent players they already have don't get killed before that happens.

/still bummed about Dunta, now bummed about Weary

Could not agree more TC. Some will say O-line, etc but I think teams know we have to throw at a certain point and they just pin their ears back and tee off. There is no one to keep them honest.

beerlover
12-03-2007, 10:50 AM
It's 2nd and 3, sloppy weather, and Schaub tries to get a ball off and gets hit in the hand as he is throwing the ball. Even if that isn't killing him, you might want to run the next play just to give him and the line more of a breather put the Titans more on their heels.

So then it is 3rd and 3, the Titans bring it, and Schaub gets crushed on the blindside.

They give lip service to the running game and then they don't run in circumstances where they can.



excatly. I was so mad @ the play calling in that situation, looked to me that Schaub wasn't all there after being jammed, the pocket was collapsing bad then try & move out of the pocket with backside pursuit = disaster :shades:

The1ApplePie
12-03-2007, 11:39 AM
And you base that on what, EXACTLY? Given that Quinn can't beat out Derek Anderson.

question #2: How do you know that Quinn wouldn't be just as or more "fragile" than some of you say Schaub is?

Now, having said that, I fall back to my std Schaub statement: Yes, he is two 2nd round picks better than Carr. I'm not yet convinced he's two 2nd round picks better than Sage.

There aren't too many QBs that could beat out Anderson right now.

2. Could he really take a hit worse than Schaub? He got decked plenty of times at ND and kept getting up.

I agree with your statment about being 2 second rounders better than Carr, but he and Sage may be in a dead heat.

Double Barrel
12-03-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't know if Schaub is a wuss, but I can tell you that this team isn't going to move forward until it fixes the line problems on both sides of the ball.

I agree. No protection and no consistent pressure will never allow us to run any game plan. The battle is won/lost in the trenches, and after 6 dismal seasons, the Texans FO still can't figure out such fundamental concepts of controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

Back the drawing board for another couple of years. Wake me when they [eventually] string three wins in a row together. Monumental task as that appears to be.

Texans_Chick
12-03-2007, 12:00 PM
I agree. No protection and no consistent pressure will never allow us to run any game plan. The battle is won/lost in the trenches, and after 6 dismal seasons, the Texans FO still can't figure out such fundamental concepts of controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

Back the drawing board for another couple of years. Wake me when they [eventually] string three wins in a row together. Monumental task as that appears to be.

They need to survive the rest of the season. Just survive.

Hard to build for the future in the offseason when your solid players are going down to injury.

petedy
12-03-2007, 12:13 PM
As much as I am a Carr fan,I believe he diffently is now damaged goods. He has had a compression fracture of the back and two concussions this season alone. In 2004, he had his first concussion and that probably set the whole scenerio of his skiddishness. So I'm going to reserve judgement on Schaub right now to see how he performs when healthy. Then the question will be will he then go to a fetal position when attacked? I said from the beginning they need to improve the o-line. Your runningback situation also sucks.

Dallas_Texan
12-03-2007, 12:28 PM
This OL has played very good this year. They were #7 overall in giving up sacks. Yes, they are injured, but schaub hasn't been hit that much this year.

No, it's b/c Shaub is mobile. That doesn't mean the OL is good, it just means he's good at running. If we had a good OL, then we wouldn't need our QB to be mobile. So it is WAY PAST TIME to put some money into the Offensive Line. Can you imagine if we finally got a great OL, AND our QB was mobile?!?!?!?

Mailman
12-03-2007, 12:45 PM
Can you imagine if we finally got a great OL, AND our QB was mobile?!?!?!?

Or a running back with the power to run between the tackles and the speed to get around the edge?

treygar
12-03-2007, 01:53 PM
Brady Quinn + 2 second rounders is better than Fragile Matty

One of the better quotes I've read on this messageboard in awhile.

ApplePie I remember us going back and forth before the draft where you were calling for Marshawn Lynch.

I hate to say it, but you were right sir I apologize for my past misgivings.

Mailman
12-03-2007, 02:28 PM
That sounds like a great quote to you because the hyped player who hasn't played at all (i.e. Quinn) is always given a sky-high ceiling without any consideration of his floor, whereas a guy who's played about half a season at the hardest position on the field is a known quantity incapable of improvement.

Flip the script. Given this organization's sketchy record with regards to personnel decisions, the whiners would just as easily bash the front office for not trading for a quarterback in lieu of two #2s because Texans draft pick are usually busts...am I close? I think so.

The1ApplePie
12-03-2007, 02:37 PM
That sounds like a great quote to you because the hyped player who hasn't played at all (i.e. Quinn) is always given a sky-high ceiling without any consideration of his floor, whereas a guy who's played about half a season at the hardest position on the field is a known quantity incapable of improvement.

Flip the script. Given this organization's sketchy record with regards to personnel decisions, the whiners would just as easily bash the front office for not trading for a quarterback in lieu of two #2s because Texans draft pick are usually busts...am I close? I think so.

Schaub wasn't any more proven than Quinn when he was brought in. He was the most hyped back up in the NFL, that was it.

The trade was made before Quinn's draft stock took a tumble. If Kubes knew he could get Quinn in the draft, do you think he makes the trade?

2 2nd rounders equals two starters gone.

Thorn
12-03-2007, 02:41 PM
Kubes, is that you?

LOL. If it was, there'd be some big changes coming in the off season.

Mailman
12-03-2007, 02:51 PM
Schaub wasn't any more proven than Quinn when he was brought in. He was the most hyped back up in the NFL, that was it.

The trade was made before Quinn's draft stock took a tumble. If Kubes knew he could get Quinn in the draft, do you think he makes the trade?

2 2nd rounders equals two starters gone.

Those are some big ass sumptions you're making there. Quinn played well in the preseason, but so did Jacoby Jones....and how are Chris Houston and Jamaal Anderson doing in Atlanta? Not that great from what I've read.

This organization was not interested in grooming another rookie QB to become a franchise starter. Kubiak and Smith went after Schaub because he had three years of professional experience (i.e. training camps and countless hours of film study and practice time) that would allow the team to compete sooner rather than later. I agreed with their thinking then and I agree with it now. I see no reason to believe Schaub is not the franchise QB. He's been solid, not spectacular but not terrible. I think he could aptly be compared to a guy like Matt Hasselbeck. Check his numbers from his first full season in Seattle.

Specnatz
12-03-2007, 03:44 PM
This thread reads like the who's who of the haters, bashers and people who have disappeared until today, got to love that mind set.

As far as Schaub being gingerbread man, lets see he was knocked out of two games by late hits and blind sided helmet to helmet hits, causing him to miss a game. One of which was a concusion in which rules dictate that if it is severe enough the player must sit out a week and not play.

Some of you make me sick to my stomach how you turn on a player because of things that are beyond his control and to vilify a player because of your personal agendas based upon a draft that is in the past or because of the love fest of some dudes hair.

austintexanite
12-03-2007, 03:50 PM
Fair point.

I also think the coaching staff didn't do him any favors. The Texans throw the ball a lot in circumstances where they don't need to. That is a dangerous approach to take with a Haynesworth-included Titan defensive line that has played very well against the league and the Texans in particular.

An example, proving my point:

It's 2nd and 3, sloppy weather, and Schaub tries to get a ball off and gets hit in the hand as he is throwing the ball. Even if that isn't killing him, you might want to run the next play just to give him and the line more of a breather put the Titans more on their heels.

So then it is 3rd and 3, the Titans bring it, and Schaub gets crushed on the blindside.

They give lip service to the running game and then they don't run in circumstances where they can.

I like the sets where they run when the wide receivers/tight ends are spread, and not so much running that power I crap, because the Texans line is not going to overpower many opposing lines when those guys know you are more likely than not going to run.

Anybody playing the quarterback position for the Texans is going to be vulnerable until the Texans get a legitimate take-it-to-the-house, consistent positive yardage threat at the running back position. Dayne is doing an admirable job with his skill sets, but defenses know what he can't do.

Brett Favre and Tom Brady can sorta make do without much of a running game, but they are pretty unique guys combined with a defense that can hold down the fort without a time chewing running game. And even Favre is going to be hard pressed to come back from the pasting he took from the Cowboys.

For the rest of the season the Texans are in survival mode. Kubiak last spring in SI spoke the truth that the Texans were going to need a few more offseasons to get their rosters more playoff caliber. But they also need some huge luck--hoping that the decent players they already have don't get killed before that happens.

/still bummed about Dunta, now bummed about Weary

I was thinking the same thing, they should have spread them out and handed the ball off to Joe or Ron. Schaub was hurt on the play before, the coaches should have seen than and called for a spread run.

Texans_Chick
12-03-2007, 04:31 PM
That sounds like a great quote to you because the hyped player who hasn't played at all (i.e. Quinn) is always given a sky-high ceiling without any consideration of his floor, whereas a guy who's played about half a season at the hardest position on the field is a known quantity incapable of improvement.

Flip the script. Given this organization's sketchy record with regards to personnel decisions, the whiners would just as easily bash the front office for not trading for a quarterback in lieu of two #2s because Texans draft pick are usually busts...am I close? I think so.

Drafting is all about fit.

The Texans in 2007 needed someone at QB who wasn't completely new to the speed and pace and lockerroom stuff of the NFL. They didn't need someone to be the face or abs or whatever of the franchise. Especially someone who's agent was very proud of his client's abilities.

Kubiak got Schaub early enough that they could hit the ground running with preparing him for the scheme. With Quinn, you would have had to wait for him to sign, and then there would have been the who's the man between Rosenfels and Quinn. (and as an aside, just think of the ND alums who would flock to the MBs). They picked Schaub to be the man. He's shown leadership qualities, but he has got injured. Some of the injury is fluke, and some of it isn't.

Sometimes you make decisions and they work, and sometimes they don't. It would have been an interesting season to watch a Texan team that stayed healthy, but that didn't happen. Now they just need to survive.

GP
12-03-2007, 04:48 PM
This thread reads like the who's who of the haters, bashers and people who have disappeared until today, got to love that mind set.

As far as Schaub being gingerbread man, lets see he was knocked out of two games by late hits and blind sided helmet to helmet hits, causing him to miss a game. One of which was a concusion in which rules dictate that if it is severe enough the player must sit out a week and not play.

Some of you make me sick to my stomach how you turn on a player because of things that are beyond his control and to vilify a player because of your personal agendas based upon a draft that is in the past or because of the love fest of some dudes hair.

That'd be me. But not for the reasons you listed.

I'd just like to see us "hit" on a great QB or RB. Just once. I don't really care what college he comes from. I just want to see Bob McNair go out and lay it all on the line.

We're not 2 or 3 seasons into the existence of this franchise. We're pretty far down the line, and all I see around here is the obligatory "Just growing pains..." or "It takes time!" excuses that we've been hearing since Day 1.

I guess the only thing that brings me ANY hope is that AMobi has produced sacks, as a rookie, from an interior position on the line. And, Mario has been generating pressure...I actually saw him use some swim move/hand fighting technique when he got one of those sacks, I was impressed (for a change).

Maybe the DL is getting patched up enough to finally focus on the OL and the DBs.

We are so cursed, though. Having Charles Spencer go out was brutal. Who knows what things would be like with Spencer healthy. This franchise has never selected an OL in the first round. Never.

And I don't see us doing it anytime soon. It would be a shock, frankly.

Like I have said: "We'll see what happens in the off-season. If we go after marginal players, instead of talented ones, and if Richard Smith is still the DC, then that tells me all I need to know."

Matt Schaub is slow. He's slow getting away from center, he's sluggish in the pocket, and he gets blindsided too much. Do we check players for their peripheral vision during a physical?

Sorry. I'm off the Schaub wagon.

I stuck on the Carr wagon long enough to know when a guy is not going to get over the top. And Schaub is a goner. But you guys keep on fighting the good fight. Slurp down the Kool Aid and serve it up to the others. I've had enough of it myself.

ArlingtonTexan
12-03-2007, 07:17 PM
I agree. No protection and no consistent pressure will never allow us to run any game plan. The battle is won/lost in the trenches, and after 6 dismal seasons, the Texans FO still can't figure out such fundamental concepts of controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.


Actually, the team has spent of ton of time, money and draft picks (DL) on trying to accomplish the goal of solid line play. The problem is that they have done a poor job of identifying the correct players at the correct point in their careers.

beerlover
12-04-2007, 12:58 AM
observation from watching Brady pull another rabbit out of the hat vs. the Ravens- he does not get layed out when he's sacked, meaning Brady gets respect, even if the rusher has a clean shot there is no intention to hurt or injure its touch & down. when it concerns Schaub he has taken some really vicious shots that would hurt anyone, like he is a rag doll, he gets no respect from opposing defenses or league officals when it comes to leveling damages/fines. just pure speculation on my part, I'll admit, but if Brady had been slammed down on the turf or hit helmet to helmet that guy would probably be sitting the rest of the season :goodnight

threetoedpete
12-04-2007, 03:02 AM
So we're off the MS band wagon are we ?

I think it's been awhile since some of you played some balls out tackle football. No one would of walked away from the hit that Odom put on MS. No one. Soft ? please. I dunno and I ain't in the room...my guess is it is a third degree sepertion. His arm was under him and Odom fell on it full bore.

So we're now going to part with x number of picks and start fresh again ? Or draft a QB and hope we hit a Brady scenario ? You guys are nuts. David Carr was a prime prospect when he came out. MS has had three bad hits and he is on the verge of entering the DC zone. MS is not a bad QB. What is bad is the total lack of support from the franchise. Gotta have a line. Good enough is not good enough. Getting by will only get your guy killed. Every time you switch QBs from scratch in the NFL you set the franchise back at least three years. All of you who danced on DC's Texan grave...you got what you wanted...It's not the QB. As pointed out above already, MS can move in the pocket. He had a clean chalk board and wasn't a mess when he started. The quetion now is what is the brain trust going to do about this in the off season ? David Carr wan't a disater untill after he had taken 149 hits. Here' hoping that MS lives to get through season three.

What did I tell you the first of the season.. Everyone filling out their little guesses as who we were going to be beat for our "W's". We're going to sweep these guys ...going to win three in a row here.... What did I tell ya ? Better not loose anyone down the streach. This franchise has missed on seven...count them seven, offense tackles in six years. You can't fail like that and not expect the chickens to come home to roost one day. Well it's here. I thought it would be Salaam on the ground. Just a few weeks ago I posted beter get the rookies some reps... Yeah well here you go. The back ups gotta go. We're going to serve them up cold turkey. They haven't had live bullets since August. Bon Appotite NFL. Gonna be a hoot. You make your own luck.

eriadoc
12-04-2007, 11:58 AM
It bears mentioning that the other QB here in the past came in and played with a separated shoulder (throwing, at that). It'll be interesting to see how Schaub handles it. Favre is going back out there with an injured opposite shoulder next week, too.

Texans_Chick
12-04-2007, 12:12 PM
Actually, the team has spent of ton of time, money and draft picks (DL) on trying to accomplish the goal of solid line play. The problem is that they have done a poor job of identifying the correct players at the correct point in their careers.

And developing those players. See e.g. Fred Weary, Seth Wand sitting on benches in 2005.

And having a consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball in order to find the right fit. See e.g. every year of the Texans, fining players to get them to crash diet to play zone, and then backing off of that.

And then trying to make those players do things that aren't really their strength, sometimes because of need and sometimes out of ignorance. See e.g. Moving Steve McKinney to right guard in 2006 or arranging the defensive linemen in a way to find a place for Anthony Weaver and his contract to play.

And then playing players because they were a off season signing. See e.g. Victor Fat Freaking Riley at left tackle in 2005 (but not Jordan Black in 2007).

And they have had some really horrible luck, see e.g. Charles Spencer.


The problem is that every team that has good linemen wants to keep them because they know the importance of a line too. So you have to develop your own. And developing your own is difficult when you've had a revolving door at offensive line coach (and people coaching that who had never coached it before or don't have NFL experience coaching it), and a revolving door of scheme and philosophy--primarily zone, or not zone or whatever. Or on the defensive line where you have changed the entire scheme, you have had multiple defensive line coaches, and your defensive scheme is run by someone who has never done it before.

Fortunately, most of the Texans games left are at home, which makes it easier for offensive lines. The Colts game might get a little scary. You'd like to run it a bunch there, but we are running out of healthy running backs.

Double Barrel
12-04-2007, 12:25 PM
Actually, the team has spent of ton of time, money and draft picks (DL) on trying to accomplish the goal of solid line play. The problem is that they have done a poor job of identifying the correct players at the correct point in their careers.

This is true, and I think our D-line is improving. Give these kids another year or so, and I think the dividends will pay off.

But, our o-line still stinks in spite of the patchwork. We have never spent a high round pick on a offensive lineman, and I think we need to refocus ourselves in order to truly build "from the ground up".

Specnatz
12-04-2007, 12:42 PM
And having a consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball in order to find the right fit. See e.g. every year of the Texans, fining players to get them to crash diet to play zone, and then backing off of that.


The problem is that every team that has good linemen wants to keep them because they know the importance of a line too. So you have to develop your own. And developing your own is difficult when you've had a revolving door at offensive line coach (and people coaching that who had never coached it before or don't have NFL experience coaching it), and a revolving door of scheme and philosophy--primarily zone, or not zone or whatever. Or on the defensive line where you have changed the entire scheme, you have had multiple defensive line coaches, and your defensive scheme is run by someone who has never done it before.

Fortunately, most of the Texans games left are at home, which makes it easier for offensive lines. The Colts game might get a little scary. You'd like to run it a bunch there, but we are running out of healthy running backs.


February 2, 2001: Chris Palmer is hired as the Texans' first offensive coordinator. Palmer spent the previous two seasons as head coach of the expansion Cleveland Browns.

January 30, 2006: Houston hires Troy Calhoun as the offensive coordinator.

Jan. 17, 2007: The Texans promote assistant head coach/offense Mike Sherman to assistant head coach/offensive cooridinator. Sherman replaces Troy Calhoun who left after the season to become head coach at the Air Force Academy.

March 7: The Texans hire Frank Pollack as offensive line coach.

November 2007: Mike Sherman takes the Texas A&M Head coaching position.


The Texans will have and will have had 3 different Offensive coordinators in the last 3 years and two different 0-line coaches and lots of changes on the Defensive side of the ball as well.

How in the hell can you have any consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball if you keep changing coaches. Which is easier to maintain consistency offense or defense when you have changes? It seems we are all in agreement that Richard Smith needs to go. With Sherman gone and with no telling who he takes with him there is going to be yet again turn over on both sides of the ball. I do not know the X's and O's like some do but it seems hiring all these old guys that are retreads is not helping, the team needs young talent that can and want to make a name for themself. Sure it is risky but I think it is a risk worth taking if Kubiak is willing to listen to new ideas.

ArlingtonTexan
12-04-2007, 02:04 PM
This is true, and I think our D-line is improving. Give these kids another year or so, and I think the dividends will pay off.

But, our o-line still stinks in spite of the patchwork. We have never spent a high round pick on a offensive lineman, and I think we need to refocus ourselves in order to truly build "from the ground up".


If you look around the league, the only OL position that requires a high 1st round draft pick is OLT and I agree we need the long term answer there. Of this year's opening day OL, three were Texans' first day picks Pitts (2nd), Weary (3rd), and winston (3rd) with Spencer (3rd) as a guy they wanted to start. The biggest issue with building the total OL through the draft is drafting 1 or 2 every year, not the round they were drafted with the exceptions noted above.

The1ApplePie
12-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Boller took some monster hits last night, some of them deep into cheap shot territory, and he still managed to get up and not lie on the field crying.

Double Barrel
12-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Boller took some monster hits last night, some of them deep into cheap shot territory, and he still managed to get up and not lie on the field crying.

So you think we should have worked a deal with the Ravens for Boller? :um:

cuppacoffee
12-04-2007, 03:45 PM
Regardles of the reason..Kubiak doesn't show a lot of patience with players who can't stay on the field.

Unless your name is Ahman.


:coffee:

ArlingtonTexan
12-04-2007, 04:10 PM
And developing those players. See e.g. Fred Weary, Seth Wand sitting on benches in 2005.

And having a consistent philosophy for the offensive/defensive side of the ball in order to find the right fit. See e.g. every year of the Texans, fining players to get them to crash diet to play zone, and then backing off of that.

And then trying to make those players do things that aren't really their strength, sometimes because of need and sometimes out of ignorance. See e.g. Moving Steve McKinney to right guard in 2006 or arranging the defensive linemen in a way to find a place for Anthony Weaver and his contract to play.

And then playing players because they were a off season signing. See e.g. Victor Fat Freaking Riley at left tackle in 2005 (but not Jordan Black in 2007).

And they have had some really horrible luck, see e.g. Charles Spencer.


The problem is that every team that has good linemen wants to keep them because they know the importance of a line too. So you have to develop your own. And developing your own is difficult when you've had a revolving door at offensive line coach (and people coaching that who had never coached it before or don't have NFL experience coaching it), and a revolving door of scheme and philosophy--primarily zone, or not zone or whatever. Or on the defensive line where you have changed the entire scheme, you have had multiple defensive line coaches, and your defensive scheme is run by someone who has never done it before.

Fortunately, most of the Texans games left are at home, which makes it easier for offensive lines. The Colts game might get a little scary. You'd like to run it a bunch there, but we are running out of healthy running backs.

Missed this post earlier today...excellent stuff

Mr teX
12-04-2007, 04:21 PM
So we're off the MS band wagon are we ?

I think it's been awhile since some of you played some balls out tackle football. No one would of walked away from the hit that Odom put on MS. No one. Soft ? please. I dunno and I ain't in the room...my guess is it is a third degree sepertion. His arm was under him and Odom fell on it full bore.

So we're now going to part with x number of picks and start fresh again ? Or draft a QB and hope we hit a Brady scenario ? You guys are nuts. David Carr was a prime prospect when he came out. MS has had three bad hits and he is on the verge of entering the DC zone. MS is not a bad QB. What is bad is the total lack of support from the franchise. Gotta have a line. Good enough is not good enough. Getting by will only get your guy killed. Every time you switch QBs from scratch in the NFL you set the franchise back at least three years. All of you who danced on DC's Texan grave...you got what you wanted...It's not the QB. As pointed out above already, MS can move in the pocket. He had a clean chalk board and wasn't a mess when he started. The quetion now is what is the brain trust going to do about this in the off season ? David Carr wan't a disater untill after he had taken 149 hits. Here' hoping that MS lives to get through season three.

What did I tell you the first of the season.. Everyone filling out their little guesses as who we were going to be beat for our "W's". We're going to sweep these guys ...going to win three in a row here.... What did I tell ya ? Better not loose anyone down the streach. This franchise has missed on seven...count them seven, offense tackles in six years. You can't fail like that and not expect the chickens to come home to roost one day. Well it's here. I thought it would be Salaam on the ground. Just a few weeks ago I posted beter get the rookies some reps... Yeah well here you go. The back ups gotta go. We're going to serve them up cold turkey. They haven't had live bullets since August. Bon Appotite NFL. Gonna be a hoot. You make your own luck.

I gotta hand it to ya, you have been on the horn non-stop to get quality o-linemen in here. After last weeks' game & the last 5 years here in houston as well as watching what joe thomas has helped David Anderson & the browns to become has made me a believer. HELP ME UP ON THE BANDWAGON 3 toe!