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Wolf
11-25-2007, 09:26 PM
I do admit I don't ever hear his name and minus the sacks, he looks to be playing up to par as far as tackles (statwise)

http://www.nfl.com/players/anthonyweaver/profile?id=WEA508538

and with that i was just trying to see how much we are paying the guy (I am not saying he isn't working hard, it is just that i hardly hear his name called out)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

this article was a couple of years ago

Weaver, 25, is considered an emerging defender who seems ready to elevate his game. He is better against the run than the pass but has improved his pass-rush skills. He played in just 10 games, with eight starts, in 2005 because of back and toe injuries. But Weaver, who has missed just one game in his first three NFL seasons, was healthy by the end of the season, and is health is not a concern to Houston officials. Weaver finished with 46 tackles and two sacks in 2005.

For his career, Weaver, a second-round choice in 2002, has 237 tackles, 14 sacks, six forced fumbles and four recoveries. He has appeared in 57 games and started in 54 of them.


Contract details of the multi-year deal were not immediately available. But league sources said Weaver, a player clearly targeted by the Texans for an early free agency strike, could sign a deal that averages in the $5 million range and includes an eight-figure signing bonus

TheRealJoker
11-25-2007, 09:34 PM
I like Weaver as a person, he seems well spoken and intelligent in interviews. But for what we paid him he's not living up to the contract.

We knew he wouldn't be pressuring the passer too much when we signed him but he was supposed to be the premier run stuffing DE in the league when we got him and I dont see that either judging by our run defense. I know one player doesn't equal a team but something's gotta give.

Wolf
11-25-2007, 09:36 PM
I like Weaver as a person, he seems well spoken and intelligent in interviews. But for what we paid him he's not living up to the contract.

We knew he wouldn't be pressuring the passer too much when we signed him but he was supposed to be the premier run stuffing DE in the league when we got him and I dont see that either judging by our run defense. I know one player doesn't equal a team but something's gotta give.

exactly and I don't know what it is, scheme that we are running or was it fools gold being he was surrounded by pretty good talent in baltimore (reed,lewis,boulware,mccallister)

TheRealJoker
11-25-2007, 09:41 PM
I think most of our problems lie in the schemes we run.

Hookem11
11-25-2007, 11:45 PM
It seems to me that although Weaver is servicable, particularly in the run game, that is not what we need from our DE (especially opposite Mario) what would help the defense more than anything, and seems to be the main missing component missing from our defense, is a true speed edge rusher, someone with a little bit of explosiveness off the ball, maybe with a few flaws even as long as they can provide a little bit of that quick explosion that seems to be the only thing really missing from marios game

BSofA04
11-26-2007, 12:00 AM
It seems to me that although Weaver is servicable, particularly in the run game, that is not what we need from our DE (especially opposite Mario) what would help the defense more than anything, and seems to be the main missing component missing from our defense, is a true speed edge rusher, someone with a little bit of explosiveness off the ball, maybe with a few flaws even as long as they can provide a little bit of that quick explosion that seems to be the only thing really missing from marios game

The problem is that we say this every year and we end up taking a defensive lineman in the draft.

Don't get me wrong I completely agree with you, but maybe it's the scheme more than the players. Richard Smith seems content with allowing our front four to rush the pass with little help from the linebackers and secondary. Just about every team we play blitzes the hell outta us. We can have tons of talent and potential on the defensive front, but if you want to increase the number of sacks you have to let the dogs out of the gate.

Bottomline, our secondary isn't good enough to create a lot of coverage sacks so we need to bring the heat. Why Richard Smith hasn't figured this out is beyond me.

Hookem11
11-26-2007, 12:13 AM
I definitely dont want to spend another high round pick on a DE, but i wouldnt mind maybe a project type athlete of a DE in a later round, seems like there are a lot of those un-polished "athletes" out there that could help with the pass rush, also i really wouldnt mind seeing charlie anderson play a little bit, whenever i have seen him play the guy just seems explosive, not that it would matter if we are playing the same vanilla defense, but does anyone else have opinions on charlie? the little ive seen him play seems like he could be effective in the pass rush from the LB position

painekiller
11-26-2007, 02:50 AM
exactly and I don't know what it is, scheme that we are running or was it fools gold being he was surrounded by pretty good talent in baltimore (reed,lewis,boulware,mccallister)


No the problem was Casserly, he never understood what made a great FA signing. He continued to hand out big player money to average players. Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood (misplaced as a MLB in a 3-4) on defense, and my favorite the three LT paid RTs he brought in, Todd Wadd, Zach Weigart, and my favorite Victor Riley (OK he did not get huge money, but Casserly brought in a RT to be LT for the 3rd time).

Think of Weaver as Casserly's swan song. His last big splash.

And yes I think we need to move Mario to the LDE and let Weaver go, why because of his cost.

I found a post from the old houstonprofootball.com archive (they updated server and lost the ability to search some of the real old stuff, IIRC) It's a fun read but it a long thread and it goes everywhere, so travel at your own risk http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-5715.html

Keith03-15-2006, 03:37 PM
Here are Weaver's base salaries per NFLPA:

2006 1000000.00
2007 2500000.00
2008 3500000.00
2009 3500000.00
2010 4000000.00

Add in his $12M bonus, and this total matches the reported $26.5M total contract value. I'll estimate Weaver's 2006 cap figure at $3.4M when I update it later tonight.

Weaver's cap figure next year presumably jumps up to $4.9M in 2007 and $5.9M in 2008-09. Yeow.


If you cut Weaver after May 1, then you can spread the cap hit out to 2 years, which saves the team money next season against the cap. So if the team is as unhappy with Weaver as I am, he will not be a Texan next opening day.

Runner
11-26-2007, 06:09 AM
...but i wouldnt mind maybe a project type athlete of a DE in a later round, seems like there are a lot of those un-polished "athletes" out there that could help with the pass rush,

One Mario is enough, thank you.

Hook'er
11-26-2007, 06:12 AM
I definitely dont want to spend another high round pick on a DE, but i wouldnt mind maybe a project type athlete of a DE in a later round, seems like there are a lot of those un-polished "athletes" out there that could help with the pass rush, also i really wouldnt mind seeing charlie anderson play a little bit, whenever i have seen him play the guy just seems explosive, not that it would matter if we are playing the same vanilla defense, but does anyone else have opinions on charlie? the little ive seen him play seems like he could be effective in the pass rush from the LB position

I guess we should have kept Babin!:gun:

PapaL
11-26-2007, 06:18 AM
I guess we should have kept Babin!:gun:

How is Babin doing this year?

Imagine how much better we would be doing with all his 2 games played and 0 tackles and 0 sacks.

otisbean
11-26-2007, 08:19 AM
I would like to see them add a speed rusher at the RE, move MW to LE - where he says is more comfortable, and move Weaver down to the DT rotation. On passing downs having MW, Weaver, Okoye, and a speed DE could definitely beef up the pass rush. Against running teams like the Titans, you could go MW, Okoye, TW, and Weaver for more size.

nunusguy
11-26-2007, 08:35 AM
I would like to see them add a speed rusher at the RE, move MW to LE

That's the formula. He's a strongside DE, we've known that from Day 1 and now that he's starting to play with some confidence, a little more production
it's a change I'm expecting next year. And we need a pass rusher on the
weakside, even if just a 3rd down specialists.
Now I dunno what we do with Weaver ? Big problem of course is he's got a big cap-number.

Hookem11
11-26-2007, 11:50 AM
I guess we should have kept Babin!:gun:
The differenced being all of the draft picks we gave up for Babin, wheras we could probably find someone more athletic and more explosive, albeit less polished perhaps, in the 4th or 5th round

HOU-TEX
11-26-2007, 11:55 AM
Maybe we can draft Chris Long from UVA in this years draft. :backsout:

buddyboy
11-26-2007, 12:04 PM
The differenced being all of the draft picks we gave up for Babin, wheras we could probably find someone more athletic and more explosive, albeit less polished perhaps, in the 4th or 5th round

I can't understand why people keep bringing up how much we gave up for him. So what we paid WAY too much for him? After we drafted him, that's a moot point. After someone get's drafted, they are a player on your team, and if they contribute, they shouldn't continuously be compared to where they were drafted. Ok, Babin was a reach, but if he was a decent player, there's NO reason to let him go, JUST because he was drafted too high and with too many draft picks. I don't think GMs say "Hmmm, this guy was drafted in the first round, but's playing like a second rounder...let him go, he's not playing to his potential." If the player contributes, there's no reason to let them go, no matter how much you paid for them, unless the GM has an urge to hide their mistakes.

PapaL
11-26-2007, 01:00 PM
I can't understand why people keep bringing up how much we gave up for him. So what we paid WAY too much for him? After we drafted him, that's a moot point. After someone get's drafted, they are a player on your team, and if they contribute, they shouldn't continuously be compared to where they were drafted. Ok, Babin was a reach, but if he was a decent player, there's NO reason to let him go, JUST because he was drafted too high and with too many draft picks. I don't think GMs say "Hmmm, this guy was drafted in the first round, but's playing like a second rounder...let him go, he's not playing to his potential." If the player contributes, there's no reason to let them go, no matter how much you paid for them, unless the GM has an urge to hide their mistakes.

Performance=Draft Status=Pay=Performance=Pay

Babin played well enough in collage to earn him a higher draft status which enabled him to get paid for that status. He however performed at a level well beneath his pay. I'm sure GM's say "Hmmm this guy is making 1st rounder money but performing like 6th rounder." Getting rid of said player is admitting a mistake.

Andrew6
11-26-2007, 01:06 PM
I'd like to see Maddox in more on the Defense. When he does play he seems to make big plays. I think the reason you don't see him as much is b/c of Okoye and TJ at this position. I think he's more of a force than atleast TJ and has more exp. at the position over Okoye.

HOU-TEX
11-26-2007, 01:14 PM
I'd like to see Maddox in more on the Defense. When he does play he seems to make big plays. I think the reason you don't see him as much is b/c of Okoye and TJ at this position. I think he's more of a force than atleast TJ and has more exp. at the position over Okoye.

I don't think so. TJ has out performed all of the DTs. I have no problem with his play. Okoye will get better, Zgonina is a patch and Maddox is a backup at best.

Let's face it. We need upgrades all over the roster. We need to quit relying on patches.:)

Andrew6
11-26-2007, 01:17 PM
I don't think so. TJ has out performed all of the DTs. I have no problem with his play. Okoye will get better, Zgonina is a patch and Maddox is a backup at best.

Let's face it. We need upgrades all over the roster. We need to quit relying on patches.:)

I don't know about him out performing anyone and I do agree we need upgrades. I like maddox as a back up and thats what he is. Even as a back up though he's recorded 11 tackles and 2 sacks. Thats not bad for a back up.

HOU-TEX
11-26-2007, 01:24 PM
I think he's more of a force than atleast TJ and has more exp. at the position over Okoye.

I don't know about him out performing anyone and I do agree we need upgrades. I like maddox as a back up and thats what he is. Even as a back up though he's recorded 11 tackles and 2 sacks. Thats not bad for a back up.

I was commenting on your statement above. You mentioned Maddox was more of a force than TJ. Then you say Maddox is a backup which I mentioned. So you want to replace TJ, who's having his best year as a pro, with a back up?

Maybe I'm misreading or something.:)

painekiller
11-26-2007, 07:53 PM
I would like to see them add a speed rusher at the RE, move MW to LE - where he says is more comfortable, and move Weaver down to the DT rotation. On passing downs having MW, Weaver, Okoye, and a speed DE could definitely beef up the pass rush. Against running teams like the Titans, you could go MW, Okoye, TW, and Weaver for more size.

The problem with that idea is twofold, one Weaver is really to small to play DT effectively against the run. Two you are paying him a sackers money to play the run. That is not a good investment, and it is typical Casserly.

Lucky
11-27-2007, 08:50 AM
That is not a good investment, and it is typical Casserly.
I hate to stop a Casserly bashing (or a slam to his contract guy, Dan Ferens), but the Weaver deal wouldn't have gone down without Kubiak's rubber stamp. If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.

Maddict5
11-27-2007, 12:42 PM
If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.

with mario going to LE and drafting calais campbell!! i tempted to go for it just for outrage factor among the fans!! :fans:

painekiller
11-27-2007, 01:30 PM
with mario going to LE and drafting calais campbell!! i tempted to go for it just for outrage factor among the fans!! :fans:

Great another no motor guy from the state of Florida. Campbell by his own admission can play better, he did not have a good year. I want someone that did, someone that understood that he was in a contract year, and he needed to play his ass off.

Not someone that is apologizing for it, yet is still going to take your money. If he goes back to school and has a big year next year, then I will reconsider this stance. The guy looks good on paper, and that appears to be the trouble, he read the paper.

painekiller
11-27-2007, 02:00 PM
I hate to stop a Casserly bashing (or a slam to his contract guy, Dan Ferens), but the Weaver deal wouldn't have gone down without Kubiak's rubber stamp. If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.

I have a feeling conversation went like this;

Kubiak: Charlie, we have identified our needs, since last years team was not good against the rush, and I prefer a 4-3 defense, we need a LDE, Babin and Peak are too small to play the strong side. Also we need a RB we can depend on, this DD kid seems to be hurt alot.

Casserly: (Looking up the meaning of strong side and 4-3, and looking at GBN FA List for ideas)(OK Casserly never looked at a computer) Well RB should be taken care of with Reggie Bush he is the best thing I have seen since Desmond Howard er I mean Barry Sanders, yea that's it. We can get this FA guy from Baltimore they have a good defense, he is young. I think I can trick him into signing here.

Kubiak: Well we need a DE, it's your job to know which one is best for us. I'm to busy looking at tape and installing a playbook, looking for a DL coach, finding a place to live, trying to get David Carr to return a call, it has been a crazy month.

Casserly: I got your back Gary. Trust me, I have a Super Bowl Ring for being such a good scout, and putting together the best scab team. I can handle this one.

Well you get my drift

Kubiak came from an atmosphere where the HC controlled the entire organization. Everyone understood there roles. They had the type players they wanted down and it was always a matter of filling the needs. The scouting department understood the coaches needs, and just presented the players, on some the coaches had preferences, but one man had final say.

When Kubiak got here, Casserly was VP and he had been the man who laid out the team plan. He was the man that had McNair's ear. Everyone in the building other than Kubiak coaching hires, had been hired by Casserly. Was he really in a place to question the long time GM about a DE? Yes he was able to get his backup QB, a person he had tried to get while he was in Denver, but Kubiak had not been involved in selecting defensive players before. He needed someone to be his right hand.

I disagree with the way McNair handled the firings of Capers and Casserly, I would have fired them both together. But he did not. So Lucky we have this problem, which guy gets the glory and which guy gets the blame? I think Casserly's track record stands for itself, and Kubiaks record does also, I am blaming Casserly.

Runner
11-27-2007, 04:47 PM
I hate to stop a Casserly bashing (or a slam to his contract guy, Dan Ferens), but the Weaver deal wouldn't have gone down without Kubiak's rubber stamp. If it's all about "accountability", then Gary needs to own up to this one and cut Weaver loose in the offseason.

The shorthand of "all bad picks were because of Casserly, all good picks were because Kubiak was in control" makes it easier to hope for the future if one can ignore the glaring inconsistency.

I keep thinking that Casserly and Capers built a team that could carry Carr to a 7-9 record. Had one change been made - Schaub for Carr - that team probably would have won one or two more games.

With all of the Casserly and Capers ineptness and all of the Smith and Kubiak brilliance, this current team should have a better record than one those jokers ever put together. It isn't all schedule and injury, and there was enough money laying around to overpay Weaver, Moulds, Green, and even Black.

The talent of the previous regime's team was higher than they are now given credit for, IMO. Coaching, politics, and David Carr destroyed it.

beerlover
11-28-2007, 04:25 AM
the negativity seen on this board lately from such longtime standouts ready & willing to strike anyone or anything in its path is astonishing & Anthony Weaver I guess is no different. at the time the Texans signed him he was considered one of the top 15 unrestricted free agents period. sure the Texans paid him handsom sums of :money: but he was considered a cornerstone to changing schemes to a 4-3 & to sign key FA's the Texans where kinda forced to pay remember? then he suffered a torn rotator cuff which is a severe injury for a strength position & is just now gaining full mobility & strength. on top of that he is one of the few talented veteran leaders, this team so desperately needs (this is a team loaded w/young talent).

the Texans are ranked 19th in total defense so far this season. last year it was 28th. another healthy jump like that & we're looking at cracking the top 10 in a couple years, of which Weaver is an integral part. look...:shades: all year we wait for football season to start (some like me never stop with the offseason/draft) but now when its here all I hear is whining & :crying: well I'm not having none of it, I yearn to watch & see the Texans compete week after week both good & bad no matter what but I must say, for a change y'all have grounded me. brought me back to the mainstream, to at least offer a view not jaded in negativity but to find the positives of this team & Anthony Weaver is surely one of them :texflag:

Runner
11-28-2007, 05:49 AM
the negativity seen on this board lately from such longtime standouts ready & willing to strike anyone or anything in its path is astonishing & Anthony Weaver I guess is no different. at the time the Texans signed him he was considered one of the top 15 unrestricted free agents period. sure the Texans paid him handsom sums of :money: but he was considered a cornerstone to changing schemes to a 4-3 & to sign key FA's the Texans where kinda forced to pay remember?

Most of this could be said about Todd Wade. It's cool to jump on Casserly now for bad signings, even though people were just as pleased with Wade the first year or two as we are "supposed' to be with Weaver now. The Texans are getting about the same impact out of the two siginings, albeit on different sides of the ball.

If all the players were as good as they are purported to be on this board, the Texans would be a lot better than they are now.

Not everyone sees players as faultless or good deals just because they are Texans. Many post these opinions, and they are just as valid as those that think players are great acquisitions mainly because the Texans picked them up. That's what the board is for.

BattleRedToro
11-28-2007, 06:50 AM
Well the question now becomes, if the Texans were to cut Weaver after the season ends, who could they replace him with?

I don't believe they have the luxury of drafting another Defensive Lineman in the 1st Round, or even the 3rd Round for that matter, and I doubt there will be any speedy edge rushing DE's available in the 4th Round. So, that leaves Free Agency or a Trade if that need is to be filled before next season. If not, it means that it will have to be addressed 2 drafts from now.

otisbean
11-28-2007, 10:30 AM
The problem with that idea is twofold, one Weaver is really to small to play DT effectively against the run. Two you are paying him a sackers money to play the run. That is not a good investment, and it is typical Casserly.


If you atcually read my post you would see that I said to move weaver inside on passing downs where he and Okoye would have a quickness advantage over the majority of OGs in the league. I said to move him outside during running downs to keep the run defense stout. I have no problem with you not liking my idea but make sure you and I are talking about the same thing. I would not leave Weaver inside on running downs as (like you said) he is too small. He would give us an inside pass rusher on passing downs though.

Weaver is a decent player that is getting paid too much. He is probably better suited to play end in 3-4. I mentioned moving him around to try to get the most out of him. Sometimes it cost too much to cut a player because of the dead money issue. You have to eat that players $$$ and pay a new guy to play his position. I don't know what the situation with Weaver is cap wise, but he isn't a bad player. Of course it would be great to upgrade 30% of the players on the team, but with the salary cap sometimes this takes awhile.

beerlover
11-28-2007, 11:50 AM
Most of this could be said about Todd Wade. It's cool to jump on Casserly now for bad signings, even though people were just as pleased with Wade the first year or two as we are "supposed' to be with Weaver now. The Texans are getting about the same impact out of the two siginings, albeit on different sides of the ball.

If all the players were as good as they are purported to be on this board, the Texans would be a lot better than they are now.

Not everyone sees players as faultless or good deals just because they are Texans. Many post these opinions, and they are just as valid as those that think players are great acquisitions mainly because the Texans picked them up. That's what the board is for.

these are not opinions, they're facts. a torn rotator cuff for a strongside end is a big deal, it takes time to heal & regain strength yet the fans are impatient & expect him to excell half a season later? besides, overpaying both Wade & Weaver was the price to attract free agents to a losing Texans, post expansion franchise plain & simple (Casserly or Kubiak).

however I beg to differ with your associtation between Wade & Weaver right there. Wade was unceremoniously released by the Houston Texans last July because Kubiak did not feel he was a good fit for the system they were installing. Weaver was brought in because he was a good fit for the defense Richard Smith (4-3) system wanted to run, different circumstances. at least try to understand players are researched to find the best fit for the system, for a coach to install thats the GM's job (Rick Smith was not hired yet) Weaver still fits that purpose even post Mario pick while Wade is a LG with the Redskins. those are the facts, deny it if y'all want to but don't blame Weaver, he came to Houston to work hard & play football, is strong in the community, a good teammate & does whatever the coaching staff asks him to do.

if you want to focus on something that needs fixed its not a young defensive line thats improving each week its an offense that leads the NFL in giveaways (29) think about the linemen who have to turnaround & go back on the field after the offense turns the ball over? I don't think thats Weaver's problem, yet series after series he goes back in there to stop another unfortunate mis-handling by the offense :specnatz:

nunusguy
11-28-2007, 12:28 PM
If you atcually read my post you would see that I said to move weaver inside on passing downs where he and Okoye would have a quickness advantage over the majority of OGs in the league. I said to move him outside during running downs to keep the run defense stout. I have no problem with you not liking my idea but make sure you and I are talking about the same thing. I would not leave Weaver inside on running downs as (like you said) he is too small. He would give us an inside pass rusher on passing downs though.

Weaver is a decent player that is getting paid too much. He is probably better suited to play end in 3-4. I mentioned moving him around to try to get the most out of him. Sometimes it cost too much to cut a player because of the dead money issue. You have to eat that players $$$ and pay a new guy to play his position. I don't know what the situation with Weaver is cap wise, but he isn't a bad player. Of course it would be great to upgrade 30% of the players on the team, but with the salary cap sometimes this takes awhile.
Weaver is redundant and therefor expendable with Mario also on our team.
Its well known we never intended to draft Mario and that's why we took
Weaver - we needed a strong-side DE in Kubiaks 4-3. And Weaver would
still be very valuable and necessary had we not drafted Mario. But Mario
should clearly be playing the position on the DLine AW is now manning.
But Travis Johnson is playing well and along with AO they are both
3-technique type tackles, as is Weaver if he's moved inside. Weaver is simply too small to be a NT (or 0 or 1-technique type if you choose that terminology) type in the DLine.
So now that means if Weaver is moved inside we've got no less than 3 players who are 3-technique types and there is only one 3-technique position in the 4-3 DLine. Somebody has to go, and its going to be Weaver or TJ because AO isn't going anyway.

beerlover
11-28-2007, 01:01 PM
Weaver is redundant and therefor expendable with Mario also on our team.
Its well known we never intended to draft Mario and that's why we took
Weaver - we needed a strong-side DE in Kubiaks 4-3. And Weaver would
still be very valuable and necessary had we not drafted Mario. But Mario
should clearly be playing the position on the DLine AW is now manning.
But Travis Johnson is playing well and along with AO they are both
3-technique type tackles, as is Weaver if he's moved inside. Weaver is simply too small to be a NT (or 0 or 1-technique type if you choose that terminology) type in the DLine.
So now that means if Weaver is moved inside we've got no less than 3 players who are 3-technique types and there is only one 3-technique position in the 4-3 DLine. Somebody has to go, and its going to be Weaver or TJ because AO isn't going anyway.

guess Shantee Orr is going away http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3964

Runner
11-28-2007, 04:43 PM
these are not opinions, they're facts. a torn rotator cuff for a strongside end is a big deal, ...
deny it if y'all want to but don't blame Weaver

I didn't say a torn rotator cuff or its effects were an opinion, but that mis-statement did give you a good jumping off point for your desertation of other facts as you see them.

My opinion: Weaver isn't worth the money he is being paid.

If you don't agree with that, that is your opinion and that's fine. Facts can lead to legitimately different opinions and still be facts. The world isn't black and white; it is gray. In other words, even though we have different opinions it doesn't mean I don't know what a fact is and have to be treated like I'm stupid and misinformed.

I don't blame Weaver; that may be an assumption of "fact" on your part. I think he should go to the team offering the best money/opportunity and do his best there. However, if a team continually makes similar decisions that don't turn out well IMO, I will comment on them as my opinion. Furthermore, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm in some sort of denial.

==========================

With all that being said, I still don't see why the Texans aren't better with so many players who are above criticism to one segment or another of this board.

Lucky
11-28-2007, 05:18 PM
Well the question now becomes, if the Texans were to cut Weaver after the season ends, who could they replace him with?
The obvious answer is Mario Williams. He's a true 4-3 LDE. The you find a player (or players) to play RDE. I think Earl Cochran could be part of that solution. And you don't have to spend a 1st round pick in the draft on a pass rushing tweener. Look at the sack leaders and you will find plenty who were mid round selections.

...but don't blame Weaver, he came to Houston to work hard & play football, is strong in the community, a good teammate & does whatever the coaching staff asks him to do.
I wouldn't argue against any of that. But as of right now, he's overpaid. And the only position he can play should be manned by Mario Williams, who is the Texans best LDE.

otisbean
11-28-2007, 05:22 PM
I agree to all that Weaver isn't worth the money I don't think that is a question, BUT he is on the team with a contract. You can't just go cutting everyone that you feel is overpaid. You have to pay the rest of his bonus plus a new guy to play the position. There comes a point where you can handle releasing players based on the contract and the cap situation, and I honestly don't know where Weaver is in that regard. I have a feeling since he is less than half way through he would cost us quite a bit in dead money. It seems that the job of the coaching staff should be to utilize players to the best of their ablilities -ie put them in a position to be productive. This was why I suggested moving him around abit on the line depending on situation - to try to get more productivity out of him.

It would be great if you could cut guys that didn't produce based on their contract numbers, but that isn't the case in the NFL. You have to pay a price in the accelerated bonus. I don't think Weaver is such a bad player that he needs to be cut if he costs us a bunch in dead money. If you can cut him and not get killed with the cap and find a good replacement then by all means chop away. I am not sure it will be that easy this off season.

Vinny
11-28-2007, 05:26 PM
The obvious answer is Mario Williams. He's a true 4-3 LDE. The you find a player (or players) to play RDE. I think Earl Cochran could be part of that solution. And you don't have to spend a 1st round pick in the draft on a pass rushing tweener. Look at the sack leaders and you will find plenty who were mid round selections.
Guys like Darryl Tapp and Elvis Dumervil are there every year after the first round. We just need to do our homework and find a player suitable for the weakside edge rusher. You can reach for guys in the first round that were mentioned earlier in this thread like Calais Campbell but he is kind of a poor man's Sean Jones....not sure he would be any better than someone like Tapp long term.

I wouldn't argue against any of that. But as of right now, he's overpaid. And the only position he can play should be manned by Mario Williams, who is the Texans best LDE.I'd like to see us cut Weaver and put in Mario at the strong side end full time also.

otisbean
11-28-2007, 05:27 PM
Weaver is redundant and therefor expendable with Mario also on our team.
Its well known we never intended to draft Mario and that's why we took
Weaver - we needed a strong-side DE in Kubiaks 4-3. And Weaver would
still be very valuable and necessary had we not drafted Mario. But Mario
should clearly be playing the position on the DLine AW is now manning.
But Travis Johnson is playing well and along with AO they are both
3-technique type tackles, as is Weaver if he's moved inside. Weaver is simply too small to be a NT (or 0 or 1-technique type if you choose that terminology) type in the DLine.
So now that means if Weaver is moved inside we've got no less than 3 players who are 3-technique types and there is only one 3-technique position in the 4-3 DLine. Somebody has to go, and its going to be Weaver or TJ because AO isn't going anyway.

Look, if it costs us a ton of dead money to cut Weaver than I am against it. Play him at strong side end against running teams and move him to TJs position in passing downs and he will produce. Sign or draft a player like Trent Coles or Burgess to come in a weak side end during passing downs.

I think if anyone needs to be released it is Green. If his knee is a chronic issues then he doesn't need to be here. Cutting two guys in the first couple years into their deals could be problematic to the cap. Of the the two i would release Green and keep Weaver.

Lucky
11-28-2007, 06:27 PM
I agree to all that Weaver isn't worth the money I don't think that is a question, BUT he is on the team with a contract. You can't just go cutting everyone that you feel is overpaid. You have to pay the rest of his bonus plus a new guy to play the position. There comes a point where you can handle releasing players based on the contract and the cap situation, and I honestly don't know where Weaver is in that regard.
I don't either. I had heard he had received a $12 million bonus upon signing for 5 years with the Texans. But I looked on houstonprofootball.com's salary cap page (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html), and Weaver's prorated bonus calls for a $1.2 million hit on the cap. I'm not sure where the $1.2 million per year disparity comes from, unless half of the $12 million came in a roster bonus.

If Weaver does still carries $7.2 million hit in bonus allocation, he probably is too expensive to cut. I still think it would be in the best interest of the team to move Williams to LDE and find a solution at RDE. Weaver could backup. Yeah, that would suck to pay that much to a reserve. But, the Texans can't afford to play guys based on how much cap hit they bring.

painekiller
11-28-2007, 06:28 PM
Look, if it costs us a ton of dead money to cut Weaver than I am against it. Play him at strong side end against running teams and move him to TJs position in passing downs and he will produce. Sign or draft a player like Trent Coles or Burgess to come in a weak side end during passing downs.

I think if anyone needs to be released it is Green. If his knee is a chronic issues then he doesn't need to be here. Cutting two guys in the first couple years into their deals could be problematic to the cap. Of the the two i would release Green and keep Weaver.

Actually we save money against the cap if we cut Weaver after May 1st. That is why I have started this tangent. Weaver is redundant, and his salary could be better spent elsewhere.

otisbean, your right I missed the part about passing downs. That is how I had envisioned Weaver being used last year on passing downs. and for the most part it was early in the season. But Weaver is not a pass rusher even from the inside, he had 1 sack total last year, and Maddox had how many? (2) Also teams just ran draws on us when we went small for passing plays. You need to get the 4 best every town players you can get on the field so the offense cannot exploit your weaknesses.

BattleRedToro
11-28-2007, 09:15 PM
The obvious answer is Mario Williams. He's a true 4-3 LDE. The you find a player (or players) to play RDE. I think Earl Cochran could be part of that solution. And you don't have to spend a 1st round pick in the draft on a pass rushing tweener. Look at the sack leaders and you will find plenty who were mid round selections.


I wouldn't argue against any of that. But as of right now, he's overpaid. And the only position he can play should be manned by Mario Williams, who is the Texans best LDE.

I know Mario would replace Weaver at LDE. What I meant was who would replace Mario at RDE after he moves to LDE.

beerlover
11-29-2007, 12:10 AM
I expect Anthony Weaver to improve as the season continues really helping the run defense & pass rush as he gets closer to 100% in football shape. thats my opinion, grey, black or white :bat:

edo783
11-29-2007, 08:35 AM
I'd like to see us cut Weaver and put in Mario at the strong side end full time also.

And please let him stand up. It seems to be night and day as to how much faster off the ball he is standing.

beerlover
12-02-2007, 01:54 PM
from the 1st half (Titans game today) Mario has moved to the left side & been more productive, just sacked Vince Young & the announcers agree with y'all that he fits better there.

so while Weaver looks healthier & moving around better (saw him drop into TE coverage) naturally Mario is an upgrade, therefore a game time precedent has been made- Mario Williams has found his position (LDE). This make's Weaver expendable & now I must confess I too was in the wrong :cool:

BattleRedToro
12-04-2007, 06:08 AM
What about Terrel Suggs from the Baltimore Ravens at RDE. He will become a free agent after the season ends, is 25 years old and can play either 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 RDE. If they could make it work I definitely think that he would be a good fit for the Texans.