PDA

View Full Version : I'm about done with this


Hervoyel
11-25-2007, 08:21 PM
6 years of "keep your head up and quit panicking every time they lose" has me just about ready to walk away. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly where I am. Screw this mess. I've watched 115 games of almost exclusively bad football and I'm tired of it.

Honestly I'd rather watch no football at all than watch consistently bad football with no end in sight. The Texans are institutionally ignorant (still), poorly coached (still), loaded with physical specimens lacking genuine football skills (still), and despite improved statistical performances don't look any better as a group than they did in 2003 or 2004.

I'm not upset about the loss. I know many of you might not believe that but I trust that the posters who know me do. I'm upset about the way we lost and the way we continue to lose. I'm upset about a the damned turnover factory that Gary Kubiak seems to be running on double-shifts. I'm upset about the defense that can't get off the field when it needs to or stop a running back, or pressure a QB. I'm upset about the slugs we've wasted picks on and about the picks we didn't make when the player was right in front of our noses. I'm upset about the free agents we've signed and the ones we passed on who went on to play well for other teams.

I'm upset about our identity-less offense that seems to always be one play away from shooting itself in the foot. I'm sick of the Mike & Gary show and how they consistently go for 5 yards when we need 8. I'm sick of the poorly timed gimmicks and the apologies as Gary Kubiak thumps the podium while telling us all that "x" was (or wasn't) working and that it was his fault that they went away from it (or stuck with it too long).

Gary Kubiak is Hugh Campbell wearing a Butthead mask. Gary Kubiak is clearly in far over his head.

I think I'm done caring for the year. I'm getting close to being done caring at all. I don't like getting this upset on Sundays. I was a happier person having happier weekends before Bob McNair decided to play football owner (badly).

Pantherstang84
11-25-2007, 08:29 PM
I'm about done with talking people off of the ledge.

Hell. If you're going to jump, then Jump! Quit threatening and do it!

houstonhurricane
11-25-2007, 08:33 PM
Man, I really understand where you are coming from. Having spent thousands of dollars to keep watching losing teams has been difficult to stomach. That being said, we are making improvements and stand at 5-6. If we lose next week to the Titans, then you should make the plunge...

J-Russ
11-25-2007, 08:41 PM
I hope McNair goes bankrupt for putting this crap on the field. You don't know **** about football or what it takes to win. Sell it or learn how to win. Get an actual coach that can put together an actual team, that can win games.

And stop it with the goodie boys only club. WE"RE SOFT, GET SOME ***HOLE THAT WANT TO HURT PEOPLE. THIS IS FOOTBALL, NOT GOLF! SHHHESSSSSHH

jerek
11-25-2007, 08:41 PM
I'm not upset about the loss. I know many of you might not believe that but I trust that the posters who know me do. I'm upset about the way we lost and the way we continue to lose.

Quoted for emphasis. It's not upsetting that we lose, it's how we lose.

We lose winnable games that were ours for the taking. We're past talent issues (though we could use more talent) and we're now still, most of the way through year six, looking primarily at coaching issues, albeit slightly more palatable than the Capers recipe. Kubiak is a major improvement but like Capers it seems he is letting his assistant goons run this franchise back into the ground.

I like your reference to an "identity crisis" and our team consistently being on the edge of one horrible play away from a meltdown (my paraphrase.) When Owen Daniels caught that crossing route today I sensed the fumble before the tackler even entered the screen. We're three-quarters of the way through the season and I still am on the edge of my seat throughout the entire game wondering when Schaub will throw some freakout pass into triple coverage or five yards short of his receiver. Our defense puts together magnificent, "top 5" stretches and then goes practice squad on us for entire quarters. We succeed with aggression and then go back to ten straight soft zone calls.

I try to maintain the perspective that Texans football is merely entertainment and the day it is no longer entertaining is the day I will stop watching it (same reason I should give up fantasy football.) Sundays are precious and I spend too much of them being irritated. I try to remember that I'm not a player and that I have no responsibility for our performance come game time except to enjoy it or change the channel.

But it's tough to be excited about Texans football when I think like that and I want to be excited about it. I spent, for the first time this year, the entire Sunday watching NFL football.

I'm not asking for Capersball but that was often less emotionally challenging. No matter what the national media thought, it felt like the Texans were heavy underdogs in virtually every contest. You don't feel as bad watching a blowout loss because we never had any business winning half of them any way. This year's Texans are different--good enough to contend in enough phases of the game, just not consistent enough to get it done against teams that fail to suicide themselves.

We're "close" but I'd like to know when we'll be "there."

Wolf
11-25-2007, 08:50 PM
I don't have confidence in the defense and like you Jerek, I never feel safe.. not with the secondary we have (with injuries and all) along with our Defensive coaches. I never was impressed with them.. even with a lead I am nervous, because secondary stinks and with that we can't get safety help to put 8 in the box if needed to be.

I am really hoping we get an identity like Herv said..because this Kubiak-Sherman thing...we need someone to take hold of what we want on offense

with Smith -Bush thing.. same as above

too many chiefs not enough indians

stingray
11-25-2007, 08:55 PM
I don't have any confidence in the defense. They really don't put any pressure on the Qb when it counts.

imatexan
11-25-2007, 08:55 PM
We won 2 out of the last 3 games, we are 5-6. What more did you expect? Cleveland is a good team and they got the better of us today. This lost hurts but its not one to be calling for coaches and players heads.

Soo go for it! Stop supporting The Texans rite when they start turning things around. I am sticking behind my team no matter what!

Honoring Earl 34
11-25-2007, 08:57 PM
I enjoy the offseason much more now . I like the historical figures draft , the mock drafts , the real draft . The season is just something we have to endure to get to the real fun .

Silver Oak
11-25-2007, 08:57 PM
I see progress, and that's good enough for me.

However, if you've had it, then being a fan of a team probably was never in the cards for you.

HJam72
11-25-2007, 08:58 PM
Hmmmm....Indians playing football. We need more Indians.

I think we need a new quota.

TexanSam
11-25-2007, 08:58 PM
Bye. Maybe I can take your seats at Reliant

stingray
11-25-2007, 09:00 PM
I see progress, and that's good enough for me.

However, if you've had it, then being a fan of a team probably was never in the cards for you.

We get one of these rants everytime the Texans lose on here, no big deal. He's just blowing off steam.

GP
11-25-2007, 09:00 PM
Bob McNair is running this team for profit, not to win it all.

We are not New England, nor Indy, nor Pittsburgh. Those teams have owners who will mortgage their own house if they need to.

Bob is a P.R. man. He cares about image, and he's put together a team that looks good (nice logo, nice facilities, etc.). But he's not going to spend the money it takes to really and truly getus over the top.

I have come full circle on Jerry Jones and Bud Adams. I used to hate those two guys, but within the past few months...I have come to actually admire them. They will do whatever it takes to get it done: They CRAVE to be a winner.

Bob is the nice grandfather who spends his afternoons in the back yard trimming the hedge, and then heads into the house for a sip of lemonade and a nice sit on the couch to catch the Cubs game as he gently falls asleep for an afternoon nap under the whirring of the air conditioner.

No PASSION. He doesn't need to win in the NFL to feel as though he's complete or "whole." He's done his job already. Now we all just show up and cheer for our team. And he sits in the luxury booth with Texas dignitaries and shoots the breeze as they watch his hobby out on the field.

Like I have been saying: We're the L.A. Clippers of the NFL.

I suspect Kubiak will have this year, and the next. But I think the gig (no pun intended) will be up after next year. The biggest error on Kubiak is that he doesn't have a quality staff around him to help him win games. I think he's potentially a good coach if he had the same caliber of coaches around him.

But...that'll never happen. When you see Richard Smith as being tabbed "THE GUY" when we were rebuilding, you shoulda' known it was over.

1. I haven't bought the Richard Smith deal. And never will.

2. I didn't buy the Ahman Green deal, and it looks like I'm right (again).

3. I DID buy the Schaub deal, but now I'm having doubts.

The passing game has improved, but at the expense of just almost completely abandoning the concept of the run game. It's as if Kubiak thinks that the passing game is "it" and that the run game is just a side-show attraction that we don't need to have in order to really win some games.

That's all I got in terms as to WHY we have a bad oline and a bad set of RBs. The run game has looked like a joke since Kubiak got here. No wonder he was rooting for DD to get better. No wonder he waited until the last minute to see if DD would be able to make it with us. I think Kubiak knows that he doesn't know how to operate a run game.

Does anyone on our coaching staff have any run game expertise? I just love all these empty-backfield sets we run. Gee, let me guess what the defense will do...rush Schaub and sack him? Prolly so. Or, they just drop back in a shallow zone and bat the pass away. Or they wait for Owen Daniels to catch it and fumble it.

I feel your pain, Herv. This is a Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde team.

J-Russ
11-25-2007, 09:04 PM
Bob McNair is running this team for profit, not to win it all.

We are not New England, nor Indy, nor Pittsburgh. Those teams have owners who will mortgage their own house if they need to.

Bob is a P.R. man. He cares about image, and he's put together a team that looks good (nice logo, nice facilities, etc.). But he's not going to spend the money it takes to really and truly getus over the top.

I have come full circle on Jerry Jones and Bud Adams. I used to hate those two guys, but within the past few months...I have come to actually admire them. They will do whatever it takes to get it done: They CRAVE to be a winner.

Bob is the nice grandfather who spends his afternoons in the back yard trimming the hedge, and then heads into the house for a sip of lemonade and a nice sit on the couch to catch the Cubs game as he gently falls asleep for an afternoon nap under the whirring of the air conditioner.

No PASSION. He doesn't need to win in the NFL to feel as though he's complete or "whole." He's done his job already. Now we all just show up and cheer for our team. And he sits in the luxury booth with Texas dignitaries and shoots the breeze as they watch his hobby out on the field.

Like I have been saying: We're the L.A. Clippers of the NFL.

I suspect Kubiak will have this year, and the next. But I think the gig (no pun intended) will be up after next year. The biggest error on Kubiak is that he doesn't have a quality staff around him to help him win games. I think he's potentially a good coach if he had the same caliber of coaches around him.

But...that'll never happen. When you see Richard Smith as being tabbed "THE GUY" when we were rebuilding, you shoulda' known it was over.

1. I haven't bought the Richard Smith deal. And never will.

2. I didn't buy the Ahman Green deal, and it looks like I'm right (again).

3. I DID buy the Schaub deal, but now I'm having doubts.

The passing game has improved, but at the expense of just almost completely abandoning the concept of the run game. It's as if Kubiak thinks that the passing game is "it" and that the run game is just a side-show attraction that we don't need to have in order to really win some games.

That's all I got in terms as to WHY we have a bad oline and a bad set of RBs. The run game has looked like a joke since Kubiak got here. No wonder he was rooting for DD to get better. No wonder he waited until the last minute to see if DD would be able to make it with us. I think Kubiak knows that he doesn't know how to operate a run game.

Does anyone on our coaching staff have any run game expertise? I just love all these empty-backfield sets we run. Gee, let me guess what the defense will do...rush Schaub and sack him? Prolly so. Or, they just drop back in a shallow zone and bat the pass away. Or they wait for Owen Daniels to catch it and fumble it.

I feel your pain, Herv. This is a Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde team.

That doesn't make sense at all. If he was just in it for the money, wouldn't he had drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young? He wasn't going to make alot of money picking by Mario Williams.

The guy just doesn't know what the heck hes doing.

Pantherstang84
11-25-2007, 09:06 PM
Bob McNair is running this team for profit, not to win it all.

We are not New England, nor Indy, nor Pittsburgh. Those teams have owners who will mortgage their own house if they need to.

Bob is a P.R. man. He cares about image, and he's put together a team that looks good (nice logo, nice facilities, etc.). But he's not going to spend the money it takes to really and truly getus over the top.

I have come full circle on Jerry Jones and Bud Adams. I used to hate those two guys, but within the past few months...I have come to actually admire them. They will do whatever it takes to get it done: They CRAVE to be a winner.

Bob is the nice grandfather who spends his afternoons in the back yard trimming the hedge, and then heads into the house for a sip of lemonade and a nice sit on the couch to catch the Cubs game as he gently falls asleep for an afternoon nap under the whirring of the air conditioner.

No PASSION. He doesn't need to win in the NFL to feel as though he's complete or "whole." He's done his job already. Now we all just show up and cheer for our team. And he sits in the luxury booth with Texas dignitaries and shoots the breeze as they watch his hobby out on the field.

Like I have been saying: We're the L.A. Clippers of the NFL.

I suspect Kubiak will have this year, and the next. But I think the gig (no pun intended) will be up after next year. The biggest error on Kubiak is that he doesn't have a quality staff around him to help him win games. I think he's potentially a good coach if he had the same caliber of coaches around him.

But...that'll never happen. When you see Richard Smith as being tabbed "THE GUY" when we were rebuilding, you shoulda' known it was over.

1. I haven't bought the Richard Smith deal. And never will.

2. I didn't buy the Ahman Green deal, and it looks like I'm right (again).

3. I DID buy the Schaub deal, but now I'm having doubts.

The passing game has improved, but at the expense of just almost completely abandoning the concept of the run game. It's as if Kubiak thinks that the passing game is "it" and that the run game is just a side-show attraction that we don't need to have in order to really win some games.

That's all I got in terms as to WHY we have a bad oline and a bad set of RBs. The run game has looked like a joke since Kubiak got here. No wonder he was rooting for DD to get better. No wonder he waited until the last minute to see if DD would be able to make it with us. I think Kubiak knows that he doesn't know how to operate a run game.

Does anyone on our coaching staff have any run game expertise? I just love all these empty-backfield sets we run. Gee, let me guess what the defense will do...rush Schaub and sack him? Prolly so. Or, they just drop back in a shallow zone and bat the pass away. Or they wait for Owen Daniels to catch it and fumble it.

I feel your pain, Herv. This is a Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde team.

You had me until you said Bud Adams was a winner.

One Super Bowl appearance (I say it was purely accidental) does not a winner make.

Bud Adams is exactly what you accuse McNair of being. Always has been and always will be.

Wolf
11-25-2007, 09:08 PM
I am not as gloom and doom on that

I think Schaub will be ok with this offense as time goes and the more he knows, I am good with the receivers we have, Daniels needs to hold on to the ball

OL... got to get a LT and a center(long in tooth)

Rb--dayne doesn't fumble the ball(that is all I can say), we need to see some speed at that position

defensively-still working kinks out of switching from 3-4 to 4-3

no pressure, we need to get someone in here to get these young guys developed (just never have been upbeat about the defensive coaching staff esp with all the youth movement that we have had on the defensive side of the ball)


secondary we got to get some safeties

we need to get healthy as a team!!!


we are heading in the right direction but we have many holes to fill

The1ApplePie
11-25-2007, 09:10 PM
Mario cost the least of the 3

You can't expect a team to win when it has a total of one offensive weapon (AJ) in the whole history of the team.

jaybird
11-25-2007, 09:11 PM
Just chimming in... I thought the Texans played well today. I was EXTERMLY surprised to see them get a sack on the Browns.... the Browns entire turn around this year has been their offensive line. They have one of the best lines in the league this year which has given Anderson time to throw the ball. I didn't expect any sacks today.

In terms of the offense.... unfortunatly for the Texans they caught the Browns on a day that they wanted to have their best game defensively. The rookie McDonald played out of his mind this week. I thought with E. Wright being out that the Cleveland DBs would get lit up... but McDonald played the game of his life. I thought with these two teams it would come down to a shoot out and who ever had the ball last would win. Unfortunatly for the Texans the Browns defense played their best game of the year.

The Texans are on the right road. They've had some injuries that have really hurt them... and honestly with the way Cleveland has been playing, especially at home, I thought that the Texans were going to have to play an outstanding game to win today. Texans still have a chance to get to 8-8 which is what I was predicting prior to the season.

TexanSam
11-25-2007, 09:14 PM
Bob McNair is running this team for profit, not to win it all.

We are not New England, nor Indy, nor Pittsburgh. Those teams have owners who will mortgage their own house if they need to.

Bob is a P.R. man. He cares about image, and he's put together a team that looks good (nice logo, nice facilities, etc.). But he's not going to spend the money it takes to really and truly getus over the top.

There is a salary cap in football. It's not as if McNair can spend $300 million to get the best talent available. It's the GM and coaches who choose which players to be on this team, not McNair



I suspect Kubiak will have this year, and the next. But I think the gig (no pun intended) will be up after next year. The biggest error on Kubiak is that he doesn't have a quality staff around him to help him win games. I think he's potentially a good coach if he had the same caliber of coaches around him.

But...that'll never happen. When you see Richard Smith as being tabbed "THE GUY" when we were rebuilding, you shoulda' known it was over.

I'm not sure how you can judge the entire coaching staff. So if we had Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh, and Chuck Noll all on our coaching staff they would magically be able to make our running game better? I had no idea they were gods.


3. I DID buy the Schaub deal, but now I'm having doubts.

Schaub has been the starter for the Texans for 11 games. If you're having doubts about our new QB after less than half a season then you have an extremely short leash. I'm guessing he was supposed to make the Pro Bowl this season right?

The passing game has improved, but at the expense of just almost completely abandoning the concept of the run game. It's as if Kubiak thinks that the passing game is "it" and that the run game is just a side-show attraction that we don't need to have in order to really win some games.

Ron Dayne is good in spurts but he's not a quality NFL running back. Ahman Green is hurt and isn't a quality NFL running back. Echimandu isn't a quality NFL running back. Darius Walker is an unproven commodity. He's a rookie who came out early then went undrafted. Chances are he probably won't be a quality NFL running back. So what kind of running game are they really supposed to have? How are we supposed to muster up 100+ yards a game with the squad we have now?

That's all I got in terms as to WHY we have a bad oline and a bad set of RBs. The run game has looked like a joke since Kubiak got here. No wonder he was rooting for DD to get better. No wonder he waited until the last minute to see if DD would be able to make it with us. I think Kubiak knows that he doesn't know how to operate a run game.

When Kubiak and Smith took over, they took over a disaster of a team. The Texans had holes on the defensive line, linebacker, cornerback, safety, quarterback, running back, wide reciever, tight end, and probably a couple of other positions. In two years, are they supposed to fill all those holes? I think they've done a pretty darn good job in filling some of them, but in no way are we complete.

Does anyone on our coaching staff have any run game expertise? I just love all these empty-backfield sets we run. Gee, let me guess what the defense will do...rush Schaub and sack him? Prolly so. Or, they just drop back in a shallow zone and bat the pass away. Or they wait for Owen Daniels to catch it and fumble it.

You're making it sound as if Schaub has been sacked as much as Carr was. He hasn't and our offensive line play has improved this year with an improved quarterback. And I'd say our passing game has been pretty decent as a whole with what they've had to work with (no running game, Andre Johnson missing 7 games).

TexansSeminole
11-25-2007, 09:22 PM
Like TexanSam said, Bye. It's frustrating but no.

rollinstone18
11-25-2007, 09:24 PM
I'm about done with talking people off of the ledge.

Hell. If you're going to jump, then Jump! Quit threatening and do it!

I'll second that.

GP
11-25-2007, 09:26 PM
You had me until you said Bud Adams was a winner.

One Super Bowl appearance (I say it was purely accidental) does not a winner make.

Bud Adams is exactly what you accuse McNair of being. Always has been and always will be.

I would say that having Steve McNair, Eddie George, and the rest of that bunch was a direct reflection of Bud wanting to win badly. And then there's Jeff Fisher, who just claws his way to a win more than any other Texans coach WE have had around here.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bud is a pure genius...but he has exhibited, IMO, at least some sort of football rationale and reasoning over the course of his ownership of the Oilers and Titans.

Bob McNair, to me, just looks like a guy who wanted a new pet. So you go down to the shelter and adopt one, then you run up to PetsMart and buy some food, a leash, and a few squeaky toys for the new dog. But he's just a cute little mut with not real purpose. He's a lap dog.

This angers a lot of you because you take it personally, as if I am attacking YOUR team. Well, this is my team, too. I rallied around David Carr for the vast majority of his duration here. And when I came around on it, I saw how blindingly loyal McNair had been to David...and things just starting "clicking" as it's related to how Bob runs this team.

Hiring Rick Smith (the GM) was a great move. He's made some solid draft choices and some heads-up roster moves. Not so sure about Kubiak. Like I said earlier, Kubiak has us playing FUNDAMENTALLY better than Capers did...but I don't see him outwitting other coaches. Do any of you?

Leahmic223
11-25-2007, 09:32 PM
Man the Texans are taking some of us on a rollercoaster ride we haven't been on in a while.

Last week things were totally different. "WOW MARIO IS A BEAST OMG!" and "YOU SEE OUR OFFENSE, NO ONE CAN STOP OUR PASSING ATTACK!"

Now its "Offense sucks, defense, sucks, we just suck, get over it."

We need to chill out here a bit. As for McNair not caring...hell the guy cried when we beat the Colts last year, even I didn't do that. He's trying guys, you are acting like its easy to build a championship football team. If it were than every team would have championships by now. Its not that easy.

McNair is willing to stay with Kubes a bit longer to see how and if he makes progress. Its not even Kubes I am worried about, its the coordinators.

Smith the GM has bought in a lot of good young talent and every time guys talk about the Texans they talk about our young defense and our pass attack.

Did we have a bad game today. Yeah, but we are not going to play great football every week...that is what GREAT football teams do and we are not there yet.

When everybody saw us in the playoff hunt everyone got a little ecstatic. I remember people saying "No matter if we win or lose at least we are in it." well we lost and some people are having fits. I said some things about the playoffs I said "I just hope we win 8 games" and "I just hope we don't play the Pats."

With that said, I am really impressed with our new FO.
Mario IS a playmaker, and he is getting better every week. Any one see the kid split a double team today, I think he did it twice but for sure I saw him do it once. DeMeco never fails us. Dunta we know about, Fred Bennett is a solid #2. We need a playmaker playing outsilde LB and a safety that can cover.

On offense we need a LT that isn't named Salaam, A RB that can actually threaten the other team. We are just a few pieces away. We just gotta keep this team together.

They are a YOUNG team, they are not going to out each and every week and play good football. Also people should take a look at the standings...things can be MUCH worse. Some teams are going backwards, some teams just flat out suck, and we are just in the middle of it all.

I think we have tons of cap space the upcoming FA, so we'll see what happens. But look at the moves Smith has made, he's bringing in guys that can and will help this team out.

GP
11-25-2007, 09:36 PM
TexanSam:

Wow. I don't have the ability to reply to the insane amount of replies you had made to my post...nor do I have the time (yawn)...but I will say this, because I feel strongly about it:

There's not a salary cap on coaching staff.

THUS...why can we only get Richard Smith, a has-been, for defensive coordinator? And be told that he's the BEST guy for the job.

You'd do yourself a favor if you stopped and acknowledged that McNair has not spent a proper amount of money, keeping up with NFL standards, to get the B-E-S-T coaching staff he could get.

This is the main foundational argument I have to support my claim(s) that we have a show-pony owner.

I'm waiting for the day when Rick Smith approaches McNair and forces Bob to once-and-for-all throw in the towel and let Rick Smith go out and BUILD a genuine team from top-to-bottom.

And I think we're looking at a day when Rick Smith has to axe Kubiak, and I know Kubiak will be OK with it. Rick Smith is the hidden gem out of all the personnel we have.

Sorry if this analysis doesn't help any of you FEEL better about the team we have right now. I got tired of FEELINGS when we were unable to unload David Carr for even a 7th round pick.

I call it like I see it: McNair needs to let Rick Smith build this team, and he needs to SPEND some money on both players AND on coaches.

Runner
11-25-2007, 09:44 PM
One reason fans get so up and down on the Texans is that they see the exceptional Texans performance (such as last week against the Saints) as the level the Texans are at. That isn't true; that type of performance is the the exception. The performance we saw today is more indicative of where the Texans are at - they consistently play that way.

GP
11-25-2007, 09:46 PM
TexanSam:

Wow. I don't have the ability to reply to the insane amount of replies you had made to my post...nor do I have the time (yawn)...but I will say this, because I feel strongly about it:

There's not a salary cap on coaching staff.

THUS...why can we only get Richard Smith, a has-been, for defensive coordinator? And be told that he's the BEST guy for the job.

You'd do yourself a favor if you stopped and acknowledged that McNair has not spent a proper amount of money, keeping up with NFL standards, to get the B-E-S-T coaching staff he could get.

This is the main foundational argument I have to support my claim(s) that we have a show-pony owner.

I'm waiting for the day when Rick Smith approaches McNair and forces Bob to once-and-for-all throw in the towel and let Rick Smith go out and BUILD a genuine team from top-to-bottom.

And I think we're looking at a day when Rick Smith has to axe Kubiak, and I know Kubiak will be OK with it. Rick Smith is the hidden gem out of all the personnel we have.

Sorry if this analysis doesn't help any of you FEEL better about the team we have right now. I got tired of FEELINGS when we were unable to unload David Carr for even a 7th round pick.

I call it like I see it: McNair needs to let Rick Smith build this team, and he needs to SPEND some money on both players AND on coaches.

And by the way:

When I made this same analysis last year, around this same time, almost EVERY board member here was bashing me.

Now? Well, let's just say that I make the SAME argument(s) here for the past few weeks, and there's a lot less people berating me for it. I would have had 45 angry replies by now (when I did this last year). But now, there's a pretty small amount of you guys who are attempting to call me on it.

More people are beginning to see the progression over the past 6 years:

1. McNair brings NFL back to Houston: Yay!

2. Carr made the first pick: Yay!

3. Capers and Texans begin to tank: Get a new coach.

4. Kubiak will help David be a good QB: Yay!

5. David stinks even with Kubiak's help: Get a new QB.

6. Schaub wins first two games: Yay!

7. Schaub and entire team look mediocre ever since: Hmmmm....

Maybe the next step here is for our owner to just completely let a GM do his job: Manage the team's personnel. I understand that it is hard for McNair to do this after the Casserly debacle...who could blame him?

But he needs to see the improvement that Rick Smith has brought. He is a very very smart guy. He gets things done.

But the coaching staff is behind, IMO. I don't know how you remedy this. But I would bet that Rick Smith does. Of course, this is assuming that McNair would spend the money necessary to get good players AND good coaches.

Kubiak MIGHT be a good coach, but I don;t know if we'll know for sure if he doesn't have better assistants around him. Of course, this is what we theorized when Capers was fired and we wondered of Carr was bad or if it was all the coaches fault. See what I mean?

We just have been shafted, royally, when it comes to assitants. That's my opinion, and I could care if you disagree.

Showtime100
11-25-2007, 09:47 PM
As a Houston sports fan I've been through much worse. This doesn't even register on the what-am-I-doing-here-O-meter.

Pantherstang84
11-25-2007, 09:49 PM
Now. I can buy the assistant coach problem. I believe there is an element of truth to it.

GP
11-25-2007, 09:50 PM
One reason fans get so up and down on the Texans is that they see the exceptional Texans performance (such as last week against the Saints) as the level the Texans are at. That isn't true; that type of performance is the the exception. The performance we saw today is more indicative of where the Texans are at - they consistently play that way.

Exactly.

I wasn't thrilled with our Saints victory.

I knew it was an anomaly.

So for those who sit around here and say that we just need to have more faith...take a deep breath and realize that we are missing wayyyyy too many ingredients to be considered just a few steps away from being good.

The coaching staff has THIS season and NEXT season, IMO. Rick Smith is spoon feeding Kubiak a lot of talent, IMO. Let's see what he and his staff do with it. Thus far, I'm underwhelmed.

Buffi2
11-25-2007, 09:54 PM
There needs to be a mindset change here. We've been watching poor play for 6 years, but when Kubiak took over - he basically started from the beginning. It isn't as if he inherited the talent Wade Phillips did.

I try to think of this as year 2 and if you look at it that way, we aren't doing so badly.

We are better this year than last. If we keep on keeping on - we'll get there sooner rather than later. I hope.

I'm not giving up yet, but I can understand those that do. Six years is a long time to have your heart broken every Sunday.

GP
11-25-2007, 10:02 PM
Richard Smith was THE best we could get for D-Coordinator?

Just stop and think about it for a second.

Bob's Texans team is profitable. IIRC, the Colts spent all but a few bucks of their cap money. Peyton re-negotiated to help out. Those guys had a top-to-bottom (and everywhere in-between) mentality of doing EVERYTHING it took to win the Super Bowl.

Bill Cowher cried and trembled when he handed the Lombardi trophy to the owner. The old man smiled. He had been there before, and he wanted to get back there every year.

Do you FEEL that from Bob McNair? I see a guy who has done just enough. But I don;t think, from what I have seen, that McNair is the type of guy who eats, sleeps, and breathes NFL football.

Love him or hate him, but Jerry Jones wants to win.

And I suspect that a few around here are beginning to catch onto that same attitude--We're tired of being a nicely pressed jersey, a clean cut crew of do-gooders.

We're ready to destroy people. Winning a game, then losing a game, and then winning a game, and then losing two games, etc., is just getting to be too much for a lot of the people around here who had (and might STILL) buy into what we're being asked to support.

I hear, supposedly, that we'll have a ton of free'd up cap space for players this next offseason. Well, I'll believe it when I see it. We should see MASSIVE upgrades in a few areas, which would be DB and OL and COACHING ASSISTANTS (IMO) and then a reliable, young RB.

And remember: Bobby McNairly CAN spend an indefinite amount of money, at any point, on any coaching position he feels would warrant the spending. There's no CAP on coaching salaries.

Baga21
11-25-2007, 10:05 PM
fact: We got beat (not blown out) by a probable AFC playoff team on the road.

I agree, the O looked off today and OD needs to hold on to the damn ball, but the fact of the matter is we played tough and got beat by a good offensive team on a major role to the playoffs.

on to the next game...

Marcus
11-25-2007, 10:20 PM
Bob is a P.R. man. He cares about image, and he's put together a team that looks good (nice logo, nice facilities, etc.). But he's not going to spend the money it takes to really and truly get us over the top.

In a league where you have something called a salary cap, he couldn't throw more money at it if he wanted to.

euro-Texan
11-25-2007, 10:24 PM
Let's allow a 24hr cool down period. I was ready to break stuff too!

Leahmic223
11-25-2007, 10:26 PM
Houston fans are just frustrated. Our last hope was the Rockets and then they decide to go on a 6 game losing streak.

Marcus
11-25-2007, 10:41 PM
6 years of "keep your head up and quit panicking every time they lose" has me just about ready to walk away. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly where I am. Screw this mess. I've watched 115 games of almost exclusively bad football and I'm tired of it.

Honestly I'd rather watch no football at all than watch consistently bad football with no end in sight. The Texans are institutionally ignorant (still), poorly coached (still), loaded with physical specimens lacking genuine football skills (still), and despite improved statistical performances don't look any better as a group than they did in 2003 or 2004.

I'm not upset about the loss. I know many of you might not believe that but I trust that the posters who know me do. I'm upset about the way we lost and the way we continue to lose. I'm upset about a the damned turnover factory that Gary Kubiak seems to be running on double-shifts. I'm upset about the defense that can't get off the field when it needs to or stop a running back, or pressure a QB. I'm upset about the slugs we've wasted picks on and about the picks we didn't make when the player was right in front of our noses. I'm upset about the free agents we've signed and the ones we passed on who went on to play well for other teams.

I'm upset about our identity-less offense that seems to always be one play away from shooting itself in the foot. I'm sick of the Mike & Gary show and how they consistently go for 5 yards when we need 8. I'm sick of the poorly timed gimmicks and the apologies as Gary Kubiak thumps the podium while telling us all that "x" was (or wasn't) working and that it was his fault that they went away from it (or stuck with it too long).

Gary Kubiak is Hugh Campbell wearing a Butthead mask. Gary Kubiak is clearly in far over his head.

I think I'm done caring for the year. I'm getting close to being done caring at all. I don't like getting this upset on Sundays. I was a happier person having happier weekends before Bob McNair decided to play football owner (badly).

I've been around here as long as you have, Herv. I understand where you're coming from. Watching any Texans football game is an exercise in frustration, certainly not any form of relaxing entertainment. Instead, it's a stress filled chore.

There have been many times where I wished there was a switch I could throw to make me instantly not care, not be a fan of this wretched team. That way I could just go back to just watching a good football game on Sundays, like back when we didn't have a team. I was relaxing, fun entertainment back then. I miss those days.

But I'm hooked. There's no switch I can throw. (believe me, I'd throw it if I could) And you're hooked too, Herv. So, until the day ever arrives where the team does eventually put a winner on the field, you're gonna suffer just like me.:)

b0ng
11-25-2007, 10:46 PM
Gosh I mean 6 years, we should've already had a 4 year dynasty already! :rolleyes:

If any of you "fans" that are spouting off the giving up crap have season tickets I'll gladly take them off your hands. I mean, that's the only reason you're trying to tell me, a Texans homer, that we suck. You just want somebody to give your tickets to right? Because I mean, if you don't have tickets to give me, then I really don't care what you're reasoning is on why we suck, unless you're going to have a good discussion on X's and O's.

This is why I value Vinny's (even though I might not agree with it) opinion, and Texans_Chick opinion more than most others on this board. Because they actually give a good discussion on the flaws and strengths of the players and the coaching involved. Saying that you're done because Bob McNair, or Gary Kubiak, or Rick Smith or whoever hired some defensive coordinator rather than some other defensive coordinator just seems extremely whiny to me.

I know we're always going to have our flaws, and jumping up and down and screaming trying to convince a faceless person on the internet that their team sucks worse than any other team has sucked in the history of the game, just seems overreactive and really adds nothing to the discussion of football that I thought was supposed to happen around here.

Stop being dramatic and just go quietly if you want to go, but otherwise, why not discuss who you would like to see as a DC, or what players sound good to be added in free agency, etc etc. Saying "These guys suck and I won't be a fan anymore, just you watch! I'm leaving! Hey! Pay attention to me!" just seems excessively dramaqueen-ish.

We get enough of this sort of trash on the sports radio shows, I figured you guys would be above that.

Speedy
11-25-2007, 10:53 PM
6 years of "keep your head up and quit panicking every time they lose" has me just about ready to walk away. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly where I am. Screw this mess. I've watched 115 games of almost exclusively bad football and I'm tired of it.

Honestly I'd rather watch no football at all than watch consistently bad football with no end in sight. The Texans are institutionally ignorant (still), poorly coached (still), loaded with physical specimens lacking genuine football skills (still), and despite improved statistical performances don't look any better as a group than they did in 2003 or 2004.

I'm not upset about the loss. I know many of you might not believe that but I trust that the posters who know me do. I'm upset about the way we lost and the way we continue to lose. I'm upset about a the damned turnover factory that Gary Kubiak seems to be running on double-shifts. I'm upset about the defense that can't get off the field when it needs to or stop a running back, or pressure a QB. I'm upset about the slugs we've wasted picks on and about the picks we didn't make when the player was right in front of our noses. I'm upset about the free agents we've signed and the ones we passed on who went on to play well for other teams.

I'm upset about our identity-less offense that seems to always be one play away from shooting itself in the foot. I'm sick of the Mike & Gary show and how they consistently go for 5 yards when we need 8. I'm sick of the poorly timed gimmicks and the apologies as Gary Kubiak thumps the podium while telling us all that "x" was (or wasn't) working and that it was his fault that they went away from it (or stuck with it too long).

Gary Kubiak is Hugh Campbell wearing a Butthead mask. Gary Kubiak is clearly in far over his head.

I think I'm done caring for the year. I'm getting close to being done caring at all. I don't like getting this upset on Sundays. I was a happier person having happier weekends before Bob McNair decided to play football owner (badly).

I'm not trying to talk anybody off a ledge or anything like that, and I'm certainly not going to stop watching or caring or whatever. I'm just posting because I have to agree with a whole lot of this post. I'm tired of losing. It's been 6 years of losing. Hell, it's been 14 years since this city had a football team that didn't lose.

115 football games, of which the Texans have won just 37.

I don't want to be the Cardinals. I'm tired of losing.

austintexanite
11-25-2007, 10:57 PM
I have been a fan since day one and I will continue to be one. I see massive progress since last year, and despite today's loss, we are still on schedule to have a .500 record. In my eyes, we are improving and I will continue to support them. I'm not saying that I don't get frustrated or have doubts with coaching and playcalling, but I believe that kubiak has done a good job with what he has inherited. If we beat the team that were the Oilers, three of our last four games are at home and can still pull out a very respectable record. In my opinion, we didn't use enough play action today, and Cleveland's secondary had a good day. Schaub didn't play well today, but I believe that he has played well for the season. The team has improved in Kubes two years, and I believe we will continue to improve.

Dread-Head
11-25-2007, 11:03 PM
We won 2 out of the last 3 games, we are 5-6. What more did you expect? Cleveland is a good team and they got the better of us today. This lost hurts but its not one to be calling for coaches and players heads.

Soo go for it! Stop supporting The Texans rite when they start turning things around. I am sticking behind my team no matter what!



Amen.

Allstar
11-25-2007, 11:35 PM
FOr the record, IIRC, Richard Smith was not the first choice for DC. It was Jim Bates (I think that was his name), the DC of the Dolphins. He said he would do it, but only if he had 100% control of the defense. Kubes said he wouldn't allow that, and elected to go with Richard Smith and Frank Bush as co-defensive coordinators. The Cardinals wouldn't allow Bush to be interviewed, let alone become a DC for another team at the time, thus, Richard Smith became our sole defensive coordinator

dtran04
11-25-2007, 11:38 PM
Sooo....there's gonna be a new mod? :)

threetoedpete
11-26-2007, 12:00 AM
One reason fans get so up and down on the Texans is that they see the exceptional Texans performance (such as last week against the Saints) as the level the Texans are at. That isn't true; that type of performance is the the exception. The performance we saw today is more indicative of where the Texans are at - they consistently play that way.

Agreed: They are conistantly inconsistant.

The bottom line is that this group cannot put together a string of three wins in a row. They have never done it. Now wanna say it's the coaches, high draft choices or scheme what ever...I've noticed it's never the overall tallent of the squad. We knew how bad it was when Charlie Casserly left. We know where the holes are. We knew it would be damn near impossible to fill all of the holes in a couple of drafts. Do what you want seems to me have an awefull lot of time invested in this to be giving up now.

valleytexfan
11-26-2007, 01:54 AM
Man the Texans are taking some of us on a rollercoaster ride we haven't been on in a while.

Last week things were totally different. "WOW MARIO IS A BEAST OMG!" and "YOU SEE OUR OFFENSE, NO ONE CAN STOP OUR PASSING ATTACK!"

Now its "Offense sucks, defense, sucks, we just suck, get over it."

We need to chill out here a bit. As for McNair not caring...hell the guy cried when we beat the Colts last year, even I didn't do that. He's trying guys, you are acting like its easy to build a championship football team. If it were than every team would have championships by now. Its not that easy.

McNair is willing to stay with Kubes a bit longer to see how and if he makes progress. Its not even Kubes I am worried about, its the coordinators.

Smith the GM has bought in a lot of good young talent and every time guys talk about the Texans they talk about our young defense and our pass attack.

Did we have a bad game today. Yeah, but we are not going to play great football every week...that is what GREAT football teams do and we are not there yet.

When everybody saw us in the playoff hunt everyone got a little ecstatic. I remember people saying "No matter if we win or lose at least we are in it." well we lost and some people are having fits. I said some things about the playoffs I said "I just hope we win 8 games" and "I just hope we don't play the Pats."

With that said, I am really impressed with our new FO.
Mario IS a playmaker, and he is getting better every week. Any one see the kid split a double team today, I think he did it twice but for sure I saw him do it once. DeMeco never fails us. Dunta we know about, Fred Bennett is a solid #2. We need a playmaker playing outsilde LB and a safety that can cover.

On offense we need a LT that isn't named Salaam, A RB that can actually threaten the other team. We are just a few pieces away. We just gotta keep this team together.

They are a YOUNG team, they are not going to out each and every week and play good football. Also people should take a look at the standings...things can be MUCH worse. Some teams are going backwards, some teams just flat out suck, and we are just in the middle of it all.

I think we have tons of cap space the upcoming FA, so we'll see what happens. But look at the moves Smith has made, he's bringing in guys that can and will help this team out.

This post says it all for me. Yes, I'm frustrated, but NO WAY I'll ever leave the Texans...baby steps are better than leaping backwards like in '05. No ifs ands or buts, the Texans are an improving franchise and I'm sticking with them. :texflag:

adam
11-26-2007, 02:18 AM
This loss sucks, and for the worst kind of reason. This is the kind of loss that you see coming from a mile away. Anyone who has been watching football for any length of time can tell you that if you don't play with intensity, if your offense doesn't execute in clutch situations, if your defense can't get off the field...you're going to lose football games. We've lost 6 games this season for any combination of these reasons. The offense choked in the Colts game when we needed them to come through and drive it down field and the defense choked in the Titans game after what should have been a huge come from behind win. Our other 4 losses have just been escapades of comically bad coaching and football play. The simple truth is that our losses leave a lot to be desired, mainly a win...because we had the capability of winning those games. We've yet to lose to a team that was simply better than us in every aspect, we've beaten ourselves more than anything. Despite the statistical improvement we've seen, we are still killing ourselves in the same manner as we did the last 5 years. Something needs to change, some people need to go. This is not an elite team, and wont be anytime soon if we settle for what we have now. We are one of those teams that is not as good as it's record.

With all of that said, I live for this football team. I live for Sunday, and have sat through every second of every ass beating we have taken this season. Houston is the place I call home, and just as the Oilers used to be, the Texans are my hometeam. They will be until either I die or McNair decides to move the team to Oklahoma, Canada, or LA. I have the sometimes blind optimism of a truly reckless homer, and I'm damned proud. If you wish to leave the fan base, that's your peroggative. I on the other hand will stick it out, and probably lose a lot of hair because of it.

Runner
11-26-2007, 05:59 AM
I think everyone is forgetting that this team rocks in pre-season. :)

ObsiWan
11-26-2007, 07:25 AM
And by the way:

When I made this same analysis last year, around this same time, almost EVERY board member here was bashing me.

Now? Well, let's just say that I make the SAME argument(s) here for the past few weeks, and there's a lot less people berating me for it. I would have had 45 angry replies by now (when I did this last year). But now, there's a pretty small amount of you guys who are attempting to call me on it.

More people are beginning to see the progression over the past 6 years:

1. McNair brings NFL back to Houston: Yay!

2. Carr made the first pick: Yay!

3. Capers and Texans begin to tank: Get a new coach.

4. Kubiak will help David be a good QB: Yay!

5. David stinks even with Kubiak's help: Get a new QB.

6. Schaub wins first two games: Yay!

7. Schaub and entire team look mediocre ever since: Hmmmm....

Maybe the next step here is for our owner to just completely let a GM do his job: Manage the team's personnel. I understand that it is hard for McNair to do this after the Casserly debacle...who could blame him?

But he needs to see the improvement that Rick Smith has brought. He is a very very smart guy. He gets things done.

But the coaching staff is behind, IMO. I don't know how you remedy this. But I would bet that Rick Smith does. Of course, this is assuming that McNair would spend the money necessary to get good players AND good coaches.

Kubiak MIGHT be a good coach, but I don;t know if we'll know for sure if he doesn't have better assistants around him. Of course, this is what we theorized when Capers was fired and we wondered of Carr was bad or if it was all the coaches fault. See what I mean?

We just have been shafted, royally, when it comes to assistants. That's my opinion, and I could care if you disagree.

I'm with you on the defensive side of the ball. And I wouldn't mind having a more innovative offensive coordinator. When you don't have smackdown talent all around, you need to be a little unpredictable. We aren't. Now whether that's the assistants, the coordinators, or Kubiak, I don't rightly know.

If Sherman actually takes the A&M job, it'll be interesting to see who we hire as offensive coordinator. Too bad they weren't interested in Richard Smith. ...but not surprising.

ObsiWan
11-26-2007, 07:38 AM
This loss sucks, and for the worst kind of reason. This is the kind of loss that you see coming from a mile away. Anyone who has been watching football for any length of time can tell you that if you don't play with intensity, if your offense doesn't execute in clutch situations, if your defense can't get off the field...you're going to lose football games. We've lost 6 games this season for any combination of these reasons. The offense choked in the Colts game when we needed them to come through and drive it down field and the defense choked in the Titans game after what should have been a huge come from behind win. Our other 4 losses have just been escapades of comically bad coaching and football play. The simple truth is that our losses leave a lot to be desired, mainly a win...because (1) we had the capability of winning those games. We've yet to lose to a team that was simply better than us in every aspect, (2) we've beaten ourselves more than anything. Despite the statistical improvement we've seen, we are still killing ourselves in the same manner as we did the last 5 years. Something needs to change, some people need to go. (3) This is not an elite team, and wont be anytime soon if we settle for what we have now. We are one of those teams that is not as good as it's record.

With all of that said, I live for this football team. I live for Sunday, and have sat through every second of every ass beating we have taken this season. Houston is the place I call home, and just as the Oilers used to be, the Texans are my hometeam. They will be until either I die or McNair decides to move the team to Oklahoma, Canada, or LA. I have the sometimes blind optimism of a truly reckless homer, and I'm damned proud. If you wish to leave the fan base, that's your peroggative. I on the other hand will stick it out, and probably lose a lot of hair because of it.

(1) and (2) go together. In fact, you could have summed up everyone's feeling about this game, the Atlanta game, and probably the SD game (although, I'd bet that, back in preseason, most of us figured that one was going to be a loss anyway) with the simple sentence, "This team beats itself waaaay too much."

(3) If you think we're going to stand pat with the players we have, you're smoking something illegal. Kubiak's only been here two years and already we're waaay ahead of where we were talent-wise. Are there other holes to fill? Hell yes. Did every move we made work out? Hell no. No one bats 1.000.
And raise your hand (you lying dogs) if you saw 14-15 people going on IR this season...
All things considered, I like the players we have now waaay more than the team we had in 2005 or even 2004 (well, for the most part).

This is year two of Kubiak. In college you give a guy 4 yrs to get his guys into his program. In the pros, with free agency, that gets cut down to 3 (although given the salary cap mess Casserly left, I'm inclined to give Smith and Kubes all four years). Next year, we should seriously challenge for the division or a legit wild card spot.

Last year, it was the Saints.
This year its the Browns.
Next year is our turn.
Hide and watch.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 08:51 AM
Adios...anyone else? We can use this post to group 'em all together and put them out of their misery, and save bullets.

PapaL
11-26-2007, 09:08 AM
Mario cost the least of the 3

You can't expect a team to win when it has a total of one offensive weapon (AJ) in the whole history of the team.

DD/W might take some offense to that.

PapaL
11-26-2007, 09:14 AM
This season is a clear example of a young team finding itself. Finding ways to win and lose games.
Our coach has been here a year and a half now - these things take time. If some don't want to waste another 5 years then Buh Bye.
It may not be pretty, fun or easy but this team is making strides in the right direction. If some of you can't see that then leave. Stop complaining and move on. Don't come back when things materialize though.

bigbrewster2000
11-26-2007, 09:20 AM
Agreed: They are conistantly inconsistant.

The bottom line is that this group cannot put together a string of three wins in a row. They have never done it. Now wanna say it's the coaches, high draft choices or scheme what ever...I've noticed it's never the overall tallent of the squad. We knew how bad it was when Charlie Casserly left. We know where the holes are. We knew it would be damn near impossible to fill all of the holes in a couple of drafts. Do what you want seems to me have an awefull lot of time invested in this to be giving up now.

Except they did. 4 in a row. Last 2 last year, first 2 this year. Granted we havent done it all in one season.

bigbrewster2000
11-26-2007, 09:36 AM
Like most of you guys have already said, if you don't like it get the the bleep out. The only thing I am tired of are these threads of people threating to leave. Fine, Go. Stop saying it and just do it.

And for those of you that can't see that this team is getting better then you don't know football. If you don't understand the salary cap or how long it takes to get out of salary cap hell, then you don't know football. If you don't understand that you cant fill 10 holes with 7 picks and NO MONEY, then you don't know football. Finally, if you think a young team, with a young QB in his first season, and your best playmakers hurt for a good portion of the season, is not going to have growing pains, then you don't know football. Finally, if you think most of the issues on this team are from coaching then you really don't know football.

ArlingtonTexan
11-26-2007, 10:03 AM
Agreed: They are conistantly inconsistant.

The bottom line is that this group cannot put together a string of three wins in a row. They have never done it. Now wanna say it's the coaches, high draft choices or scheme what ever...I've noticed it's never the overall tallent of the squad. We knew how bad it was when Charlie Casserly left. We know where the holes are. We knew it would be damn near impossible to fill all of the holes in a couple of drafts. Do what you want seems to me have an awefull lot of time invested in this to be giving up now.

Welcome to mediocrity. This describes what a 7-9 to 9-7 football team looks and smells like.

TexanSam
11-26-2007, 10:19 AM
FOr the record, IIRC, Richard Smith was not the first choice for DC. It was Jim Bates (I think that was his name), the DC of the Dolphins. He said he would do it, but only if he had 100% control of the defense. Kubes said he wouldn't allow that, and elected to go with Richard Smith and Frank Bush as co-defensive coordinators. The Cardinals wouldn't allow Bush to be interviewed, let alone become a DC for another team at the time, thus, Richard Smith became our sole defensive coordinator

I know we have Frank Bush on the staff now. I wonder if Kubiak is going to allow him to be the sole D-coordinator if Smith is let go

Marcus
11-26-2007, 10:25 AM
Adios...anyone else? We can use this post to group 'em all together and put them out of their misery, and save bullets.

Hervoyal doesn't need, or deserve to be put in that "adios" group. He's been around here before Day One. He's venting the same frustration that a lot us feel.

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 10:32 AM
Hervoyal doesn't need, or deserve to be put in that "adios" group. He's been around here before Day One. He's venting the same frustration that a lot us feel.

I agree completely. People are acting like Herv is just some fairweathered fan. The guy is been hard core and one of the best fans. I think everything he said in his post has merit. I think this thread shows that there are alot of people willing to drink the koolaid of.."we are getting there partner" and then they slap you on the butt. That is b.s. I saw a post above about knowing football and the salary cap. Well other teams have turned it around and in this day and age of parity it should be even easier to see the light. I see progress this year but I do see alot of what Herv is stating. There is only so long you can accept the b.s. and say.."ok, one more year" and list excuses. At some point the expansion type mentality has to wear off. Kubes admitted yesterday that if he had it to do over again he should have stuck with the run. Again, he has been honest this year but admitting mistakes after the fact doesn't do us any good when you are running the show. I think it is refreshing to see someone address the real concerns instead of the weekly off and on bandwagoners who think Schaub is great and then are peeved that he didn't go 25-26 for 300 and 2 TDs and no ints. Its called realism. I think next year should be the year for huge expectations though....not .500.

eriadoc
11-26-2007, 10:34 AM
Personally, I am happy to have read this thread. It's been rather enlightening, with folks identifying themselves quite clearly.

Herv, hang in there. It's frustrating to watch, but like I said in another thread, this team has never been as good as 5-6. We're getting there.

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 10:39 AM
Hervoyal doesn't need, or deserve to be put in that "adios" group. He's been around here before Day One. He's venting the same frustration that a lot us feel.

Houston fans have been eating their young for a long time. Nothing new.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 10:45 AM
Hervoyal doesn't need, or deserve to be put in that "adios" group. He's been around here before Day One. He's venting the same frustration that a lot us feel.

Then Hervoyal needs to get off the ledge. Not exactly sure what "before Day One" is supposed to emply other than Hervoyal should understand why this team isn't the same as previous years, or that as a previous Oiler fan, that this would be anything new from what we have had to deal with in the past.

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 10:51 AM
Then Hervoyal needs to get off the ledge. Not exactly sure what "before Day One" is supposed to emply other than Hervoyal should understand why this team isn't the same as previous years, or that as a previous Oiler fan, that this would be anything new from what we have had to deal with in the past.

Doesn't mean you have to "accept" what is being fed to you.

Texan_Bill
11-26-2007, 10:52 AM
Well, I for one am not going to renew my PSL's or ever watch another Texans game - ever......... :wild:









Sopping, dripping wet with :sarcasm:

powerfuldragon
11-26-2007, 10:57 AM
Hell. If you're going to jump, then Jump! Quit threatening and do it!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/Goyathlay.jpg

powerfuldragon
11-26-2007, 10:58 AM
Houston fans have been eating their young for a long time. Nothing new.
yeah... too bad we didn't draft him.

Vinny
11-26-2007, 11:02 AM
Then Hervoyal needs to get off the ledge. Not exactly sure what "before Day One" is supposed to emply other than Hervoyal should understand why this team isn't the same as previous years, or that as a previous Oiler fan, that this would be anything new from what we have had to deal with in the past.He's been here since before the team was named. It's just a guy fed up and venting about watching another year of meaningless football in December. It's been over a decade since we have had a playoff run here in Houston.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 11:02 AM
Doesn't mean you have to "accept" what is being fed to you.

Not accepting and quitting are two very different things. But the fact we are being fed a meal of reality should be nothing new. As far as "next year", isn't that the slogan for every fan of every team that doesn't win the Super Bowl...again, shouldn't be anything new. When would they be expected to say...definitely not next year, there's no hope for us, please don't watch, buy tickets, or purchase any merchandise. There are choices, watch the product that's put on the field and criticize it all you want, make excuses all you want or praise it all you want, but quitting or mention quitting…jeeez

Revolution
11-26-2007, 11:03 AM
I feel your pain Herv. I will never abandon this team, however. One day, one day, really one day, we will win the Super Bowl and just think how sweet the feeling will be...

:trophy:

A guy can dream can't he???? :fans:

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 11:03 AM
Then Hervoyal needs to get off the ledge. Not exactly sure what "before Day One" is supposed to emply other than Hervoyal should understand why this team isn't the same as previous years, or that as a previous Oiler fan, that this would be anything new from what we have had to deal with in the past.

Are you now in charge of fans can think or say?

Then Hervoyal needs to get off the ledge. Not exactly sure what "before Day One" is supposed to emply other than Hervoyal should understand why this team isn't the same as previous years, or that as a previous Oiler fan, that this would be anything new from what we have had to deal with in the past.

In six years the Texans have not been able to control field position (the NUMBER ONE component of the game of football). End of story.

Then Hervoyal needs to get off the ledge. Not exactly sure what "before Day One" is supposed to emply other than Hervoyal should understand why this team isn't the same as previous years, or that as a previous Oiler fan, that this would be anything new from what we have had to deal with in the past.

Oh please......can't you just shut up and let the guy vent without throwing him under the bus just to show us all what a GREAT FAN you are?

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 11:05 AM
He's been here since before the team was named. It's just a guy fed up and venting about watching another year of meaningless football in December. It's been over a decade since we have had a playoff run here in Houston.

So the other decades of not winning the Super Bowl have been any different, or losing meaningful football games in December makes it much easier to stomach?

Double Barrel
11-26-2007, 11:06 AM
.500 football is hard to watch. Obviously it's better than 2-14 football, which was just painful to endure. But a .500 team gives you a little hope, only to fumble it away (literally).

I've reached a state of 'zen' with our hometown team. I'm sort of indifferent. I watch 100% of every game, but then I just find something else to do when it's over, win or lose. They play, we watch. It is just entertainment at the end of the day.

I've endured way too much losing to quit now, though. While I certainly understand Herv's perspective, it would be my luck that the Texans go on magical playoff run the year that I quit watching.

You get desperate as a football fan and 6 straight years of losing. I've been born and raised a "Cowboy hater"...but I've actually started questioning myself with existential wonderment of why do I hate Dallas...I mean, they're from Texas, they're winners, they've never really done me wrong....see? I'm getting desperate thoughts to find a secondary team to root for! Texans in my heart forever, but still....I....just....hate....losing....year...aft er....freakin'....year!!! :gun:

Vinny
11-26-2007, 11:08 AM
So the other decades of not winning the Super Bowl have been any different, or losing meaningful football games in December makes it much easier to stomach?You will have to ask him not me....Herv has a long history here so I really don't question him being a bandwagon guy.

markn
11-26-2007, 11:14 AM
6 years of "keep your head up and quit panicking every time they lose" has me just about ready to walk away. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly where I am. Screw this mess. I've watched 115 games of almost exclusively bad football and I'm tired of it.

I've got a lot of sympathy for this view, and yesterdays was a soul-destroying defeat. Just when you think the team has turned the corner they do this to you. Trouble is, we've turned so many corners we're going around in circles. I guess this what a 0.500 team is all about. Hang in there Hervoyel, one of these corners may not lead down a blind ally.

Unfortunately, Schaub's play is a microcosm of the entire team. He looked so much better last week, but against Cleveland, his main fault has re-emerged. In rugby circles, the kind of throw that Schaub often makes is termed a 'Hospital Pass'. He may not have a laser arm, but he's got to stop putting the ball in a position where his receiver is going to take the mother of all hits if he's going to make a completion. There's another Dre Johnson type injury just around the corner unless he wises up.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 11:16 AM
Are you now in charge of fans can think or say?



In six years the Texans have not been able to control field position (the NUMBER ONE component of the game of football). End of story.



Oh please......can't you just shut up and let the guy vent without throwing him under the bus just to show us all what a GREAT FAN you are?

Point 1: Let's see, he posted it.

Point 2: Number one component of football is to outscore the other team and put a W on the board not matter how you do it. Must be a lot of pictures in your story book.

Point 3: Thanks for recognizing my fandom, had it for quite some time now. Oh, and he's driving the bus that he's under, not me, but thank you for playing our game.

bckey
11-26-2007, 11:25 AM
Hang in there Herv. I feel the same way after some of the Houston games. It doesn't help when you get a game like yesterday AND have Tasker announcing. Add to that a close up of Schaub's face after that last int where he looks like a whooped puppy and you get some really bad emotions stirring.

A lot of these young guys on here just don't understand the painful experience it has been to be a fan of Houston football since the early days of the Oilers. Good times have been few and far between. It gets really frustrating to see a new team in Houston doing a lot of the same crap the Oilers did. We'll get em next year. Thats our rally cry every year come December.

And finally, throw in the fact that Dallas is 10-1 at this point and we Houston fans have about all we can stomach this year.

beerlover
11-26-2007, 11:33 AM
Dallas has established a winning culture long ago, it feeds off of fans expectations year in & year out with players/coaches/fans all buying in. Houston is struggling to develop a winning culture from scratch yet have some of its fan base scared from the Oilers losing culture. The Texans just don't have the same set of expectations, yet until they beat the :deadhorse into submission & that takes winning :trophy:

chicagotexan2
11-26-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm about done with talking people off of the ledge.

Hell. If you're going to jump, then Jump! Quit threatening and do it!

And I'll make sure no innocent bystanders get hit when you splatt. Faiweather fans can stick it.

Mr. White
11-26-2007, 11:36 AM
This is usually the time of year that you see sensible fans turn on the organization.

As much as I hate to say it, I was one of 'em last year after passing on Vince Young bit us in the ass and we were still stuck with a hair model as a QB. Comments that McNair made about that choice to the media just pissed me off more. Not introducing the offense when the Titans came to town really pissed me off because they didn't want the boo's to hurt Carr's feelings.

This year, the hair model is out and I'm pretty damn happy.

I've also suspected that Mike Sherman had waaaay too much offensive input as an O-Line coach and again as an OC. Another problem just solved itself IMO.

Now if we could just get a real Defensive Coordinator......

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 11:37 AM
So the other decades of not winning the Super Bowl have been any different, or losing meaningful football games in December makes it much easier to stomach?

I would think so. If you are a playoff talent team, there is hope. In the current scenario, he seems to be saying that hope is a fleeting thing after 6 years because of the same mistakes. He can speak for himself, but I don't see his complaints as lame. The fact is, when you are being told to wait and be patient, people run out of patience. I'll put it this way, you can't feed people the drafting of a guy like Mario and say "we brought him in to be the guy off the edge that allows us to beat the Colts and put pressure on Manning" and then the next year say "he does the little things people don't see and holds the line well, etc, etc." Smart football fans will start to smell the b.s. I think all people want is to see the direction. I think this years team is improved. But I was one who was happy to start with a guy not named Carr and to move forward. I just think there is only so much of the same mistakes you can hear though.

SheTexan
11-26-2007, 11:40 AM
I sorta feel the same way DB does. I just don't let losing get to me anymore. The day is done, we blew another game, life goes on as a football fan. I guess I like pulling for the underdog! I was screaming my lungs out for Philly to beat the Pats last night! I had a sh*tfaced grin on my ugly mug when I saw the Titans score. I have always hated the Dallas Cowboys and will continue to do so. NOT too would disrespect the football foundation on which I was rainsed!! lol I have watched my second fav football team flounder longer than I have the Texans. I find myself cheering for teams I never thought I would cheer for, ex: the Lions. I love the game of football. I don't just watch the TEXANS, I watch it all. Every week I find as much pleasure as I do disappointment. If my team can't win, then I sure as hell hope someone else knocks off my most hated teams!lol It's a game I chose to invest in many years ago. I will NEVER let it go!!

SOOO, next weekend I will be watching my 8y/o grandson play in HIS superbowl! For once in my life I will find myself screaming for the Cowboys, even though they will be decked out in orange and white. I'll continue to console my oldest grandson because his football team sucked this year and his season is over. I'll get up Sunday morning and wonder what TEXAN team will show up to play the hated Titans. I'll have faith that it will be the one I am most proud of. If not, Monday will be a new day and I'll start making plans for TB. That's just the way it is with me. I'm a TEXAN fan for life! At my age I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever see my favorite team in the playoffs, lets not even mention the SB. Regardless, I'll hang in there through it all, and hope that SOMEDAY they will make me proud that I did!

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 11:46 AM
I sorta feel the same way DB does. I just don't let losing get to me anymore. The day is done, we blew another game, life goes on as a football fan. I guess I like pulling for the underdog! I was screaming my lungs out for Philly to beat the Pats last night! I had a sh*tfaced grin on my ugly mug when I saw the Titans score. I have always hated the Dallas Cowboys and will continue to do so. NOT too would disrespect the football foundation on which I was rainsed!! lol I have watched my second fav football team flounder longer than I have the Texans. I find myself cheering for teams I never thought I would cheer for, ex: the Lions. I love the game of football. I don't just watch the TEXANS, I watch it all. Every week I find as much pleasure as I do disappointment. If my team can't win, then I sure as hell hope someone else knocks off my most hated teams!lol It's a game I chose to invest in many years ago. I will NEVER let it go!!

SOOO, next weekend I will be watching my 8y/o grandson play in HIS superbowl! For once in my life I will find myself screaming for the Cowboys, even though they will be decked out in orange and white. I'll continue to console my oldest grandson because his football team sucked this year and his season is over. I'll get up Sunday morning and wonder what TEXAN team will show up to play the hated Titans. I'll have faith that it will be the one I am most proud of. If not, Monday will be a new day and I'll start making plans for TB. That's just the way it is with me. I'm a TEXAN fan for life! At my age I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever see my favorite team in the playoffs, lets not even mention the SB. Regardless, I'll hang in there through it all, and hope that SOMEDAY they will make me proud that I did!

I feel like I should stand up and salute the flag or something. That folks in a nutshell is exactly what it is all about.

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 11:51 AM
Point 1: Let's see, he posted it.

Point 2: Number one component of football is to outscore the other team and put a W on the board not matter how you do it. Must be a lot of pictures in your story book.

Point 3: Thanks for recognizing my fandom, had it for quite some time now. Oh, and he's driving the bus that he's under, not me, but thank you for playing our game.

Typical response. The greatest minds in football concern themselves with controlling field position, but you outrsmart them all by wanting a W (no matter how you get it). Brilliant.

dskillz
11-26-2007, 11:54 AM
He's been here since before the team was named. It's just a guy fed up and venting about watching another year of meaningless football in December. It's been over a decade since we have had a playoff run here in Houston.

I concur. I have been a fan of this team since day one. Hell, I was writing letters and e-mails to the NFL when it was between LA and Houston! It is hard to keep losing games that you know you should win. It is hard when your head coach can tell you exactly what he did wrong after the game that prevented the team from winning. The "Aw shucks, we lost, but we battled until the very end," stuff is old too. It gets much older when you are paying good money to see the team. I am not jumping off the bandwagon, but when expectations are high, the crash back to reality hurts that much more.

You might say, "Well, just don't have high expectations!", but if you don't have those, what is the point of even being a fan? I am staying on board, but if I become "That guy", I might as well jump off. "That guy" refers to the fan who is at every single game, early with his Texan jersey, hat, pants and anything else he can get, but rags on the team the entire game. Missed pass, "Get Schaub out of there!!!"; short gain on the ground, "Green you are washed up!!!"; missed FG, "My mom can kick better than you!!!". Don't want to become "That guy"!

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 12:12 PM
Typical response. The greatest minds in football concern themselves with controlling field position, but you outrsmart them all by wanting a W (no matter how you get it). Brilliant.

No kidding? Controlling field position huh, wouldn't have thought that would have anything to do with winning a ball game. Thanks for the Football 101 refresher. Genius.

Speedy
11-26-2007, 12:26 PM
I've been born and raised a "Cowboy hater"...but I've actually started questioning myself with existential wonderment of why do I hate Dallas...I mean, they're from Texas, they're winners, they've never really done me wrong....see? I'm getting desperate thoughts to find a secondary team to root for! Texans in my heart forever, but still....I....just....hate....losing....year...aft er....freakin'....year!!! :gun:
WHOA!!!! DB starting to see the light?:splits: Walk towards the light DB, TOWARDS THE LIGHT! I'll pull you through.:tomato:

cuppacoffee
11-26-2007, 12:27 PM
I've seen several mentions here about "fairweather" fans and "bandwagons."

When was the "fairweather"? I must have missed it.

Is the occasional win we stumble into considered fairweather?..idonno:

And the bandwagon? Is that the driverless wagon sitting in the mire with four missing wheels and no mules to pull it? .. :(

Why all the namecalling?

Just wondering.

:coffee:

Porky
11-26-2007, 12:37 PM
I haven't seen this much wailing and gnashing of teeth since Ernie refused to join Bert in the bathtub for a good back cleaning. :user:

Grams
11-26-2007, 12:39 PM
I am not sure why some are that upset over a loss to the Browns?

The Brown actually have an oline that is pretty good - we don't

The Browns actually have a secondary - our is on IR.

I am not sure why you think we are actually going to win most of our games with the number of (starting) players we have on IR?

We just don't have the depth to recover these injuries. Some of our starters are marginal at best and when they go down, we get less than marginal players.

I think that we are doing ok this year - considering.

Sure beats what Miami is doing this year.

PapaL
11-26-2007, 12:45 PM
Doesn't mean you have to "accept" what is being fed to you.

You don't have to "eat" what's being served.

disaacks3
11-26-2007, 12:45 PM
I'm in this for the Long Haul, so I see little point in sugar-coating what the strengths & weaknesses of this team are.

I really hope that the release of Sherman will help Kubes re-define the Offense (again), rather than the utter mismatch of Denver/Green Bay styles. while I'm sure that Sherman had more than a few 'life lessons' to impart to Kubiak, it's time for them BOTH to get on w/ their respective careers.

The Defense the Texans put on the field yesterday is about as good as it's going to get without some heavy-duty roster replacements in the secondary. I'd like to see more 'chucking' at the line and more blitzes, but Richard Smith simply isn't going to do it in this lifetime.

I hate this ~.500 football as much as the next guy, but it simply isn't realistic to expect much better from a team with this many catastrophic injuries with no depth to back it up.

We were Talent-shy on BOTH sides of the ball before training camp was over. Why the sudden shock that we can look really bad AFTER all the injuries?

Enjoy the exceptions when they come (see Saints Game) and try not to get too low when the wheels come off. :)

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 12:55 PM
You don't have to "eat" what's being served.

HMMM..another good way to put it.:)

Texan_Bill
11-26-2007, 12:55 PM
I'm in this for the Long Haul, so I see little point in sugar-coating what the strengths & weaknesses of this team are.

I really hope that the release of Sherman will help Kubes re-define the Offense (again), rather than the utter mismatch of Denver/Green Bay styles. while I'm sure that Sherman had more than a few 'life lessons' to impart to Kubiak, it's time for them BOTH to get on w/ their respective careers.

The Defense the Texans put on the field yesterday is about as good as it's going to get without some heavy-duty roster replacements in the secondary. I'd like to see more 'chucking' at the line and more blitzes, but Richard Smith simply isn't going to do it in this lifetime.

I hate this ~.500 football as much as the next guy, but it simply isn't realistic to expect much better from a team with this many catastrophic injuries with no depth to back it up.

We were Talent-shy on BOTH sides of the ball before training camp was over. Why the sudden shock that we can look really bad AFTER all the injuries?

Enjoy the exceptions when they come (see Saints Game) and try not to get too low when the wheels come off. :)

Great post!! :fans:



PS and thanks for changing your avatar....

Andrew6
11-26-2007, 12:56 PM
looks like the Browns made some major changes from last year that worked. Looks like we made some major changes and some didn't work. How do we fix this?

Andrew6
11-26-2007, 12:58 PM
I feel like I should stand up and salute the flag or something. That folks in a nutshell is exactly what it is all about.

I actually felt a tear coming, Granny is the Best.

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 12:59 PM
No kidding? Controlling field position huh, wouldn't have thought that would have anything to do with winning a ball game. Thanks for the Football 101 refresher. Genius.

Again, completely typical. A respected, long-time Houston fan goes on the board and vents his (totally justifiable) angst over a truly stupid loss - and there you are, ready to shoot your mouth off in order to show everyone what a REAL Texans fan is like - you know, the real ones - like you.

And, in perfect form, you don't see anything disrespectful about it. You didn't tell Herv "Hey, I'll always be a fan", instead you basically told him to shut up and shove off if he can't hang wiith the real fans, like you. And when other respected members call you on it, you simply dig in.

It's all about your "fandom", as you call it. You might be the worst kind of fan there is.

The1ApplePie
11-26-2007, 01:21 PM
The only time the Texans had "Band Wagon" fans was the few months between the last loss to the Browns and the 2005 draft when everybody and their brother thought Reggie was comming.

We are all Texans fans, and we all have been since the thing started! Its not like the great play of David Carr had people in Utah wearing Carr Jersies around town.

powerfuldragon
11-26-2007, 01:28 PM
heywegetgoodstats?

Noblesse Oblige
11-26-2007, 01:35 PM
Bob McNair is running this team for profit, not to win it all.

We are not New England, nor Indy, nor Pittsburgh. Those teams have owners who will mortgage their own house if they need to.

Bob is a P.R. man. He cares about image, and he's put together a team that looks good (nice logo, nice facilities, etc.). But he's not going to spend the money it takes to really and truly getus over the top.

I have come full circle on Jerry Jones and Bud Adams. I used to hate those two guys, but within the past few months...I have come to actually admire them. They will do whatever it takes to get it done: They CRAVE to be a winner.

Bob is the nice grandfather who spends his afternoons in the back yard trimming the hedge, and then heads into the house for a sip of lemonade and a nice sit on the couch to catch the Cubs game as he gently falls asleep for an afternoon nap under the whirring of the air conditioner.

No PASSION. He doesn't need to win in the NFL to feel as though he's complete or "whole." He's done his job already. Now we all just show up and cheer for our team. And he sits in the luxury booth with Texas dignitaries and shoots the breeze as they watch his hobby out on the field.

Like I have been saying: We're the L.A. Clippers of the NFL.

I suspect Kubiak will have this year, and the next. But I think the gig (no pun intended) will be up after next year. The biggest error on Kubiak is that he doesn't have a quality staff around him to help him win games. I think he's potentially a good coach if he had the same caliber of coaches around him.

But...that'll never happen. When you see Richard Smith as being tabbed "THE GUY" when we were rebuilding, you shoulda' known it was over.

1. I haven't bought the Richard Smith deal. And never will.

2. I didn't buy the Ahman Green deal, and it looks like I'm right (again).

3. I DID buy the Schaub deal, but now I'm having doubts.

The passing game has improved, but at the expense of just almost completely abandoning the concept of the run game. It's as if Kubiak thinks that the passing game is "it" and that the run game is just a side-show attraction that we don't need to have in order to really win some games.

That's all I got in terms as to WHY we have a bad oline and a bad set of RBs. The run game has looked like a joke since Kubiak got here. No wonder he was rooting for DD to get better. No wonder he waited until the last minute to see if DD would be able to make it with us. I think Kubiak knows that he doesn't know how to operate a run game.

Does anyone on our coaching staff have any run game expertise? I just love all these empty-backfield sets we run. Gee, let me guess what the defense will do...rush Schaub and sack him? Prolly so. Or, they just drop back in a shallow zone and bat the pass away. Or they wait for Owen Daniels to catch it and fumble it.

I feel your pain, Herv. This is a Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde team.

Really, NE and Pittsburgh are historically teams that wouldn't mortgage the future--they'd rather rebuild through the draft than keep expensive free agents. They are just really good at drafting and in coaching.

gtexan02
11-26-2007, 02:04 PM
I've endured way too much losing to quit now, though. While I certainly understand Herv's perspective, it would be my luck that the Texans go on magical playoff run the year that I quit watching.


Please, for the rest of us, if thats all it takes, quit watching :)

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 02:13 PM
If you can't stand losing, you don't deserve to win.

Bulluck53
11-26-2007, 02:22 PM
You guys were an expansion team in what has been one of the most competitive divisions in football since reallingment. Had you been in the NFC East of NFC South you'd be happy.

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 02:32 PM
You guys were an expansion team in what has been one of the most competitive divisions in football since reallingment. Had you been in the NFC East of NFC South you'd be happy.

I wouldn't call the NFC East too shabby.

powerfuldragon
11-26-2007, 02:36 PM
come on herv, quit your jive talkin. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8XVJx5bjrI)

Texan_Bill
11-26-2007, 02:42 PM
come on herv, quit your jive talkin. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8XVJx5bjrI)

*shakes head*.. Leave it up to PD to find and post a Bee Gee's video. Hilarious!!!

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 02:46 PM
come on herv, quit your jive talkin. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8XVJx5bjrI)

good gawd...rep on the way

dskillz
11-26-2007, 02:49 PM
If you can't stand losing, you don't deserve to win.

I guess all coaches in the NFL don't deserve to win. Because they all can't stand losing and it kills them not to win.

This board is for people to vent, communicate and celebrate. Because a few people a venting, people want to start the namecalling and calling people "not real fans". So silly.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 02:53 PM
I guess most coaches in the NFL don't deserve to win.

Can't stand means you walk away from it because your tired of it. Not that you don't like it. Good try though.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 02:56 PM
I guess all coaches in the NFL don't deserve to win. Because they all can't stand losing and it kills them not to win.

This board is for people to vent, communicate and celebrate. Because a few people a venting, people want to start the namecalling and calling people "not real fans". So silly.

Sounds like your the KING of changing words around. I don't have shit to say to you honestly. I'm tired of addressing posters like you.

powerfuldragon
11-26-2007, 03:03 PM
find and post a Bee Gee's video.

hey man, they found that elusive intangible known as the funk on that number. :splits:

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 03:07 PM
*shakes head*.. Leave it up to PD to find and post a Bee Gee's video. Hilarious!!!

Love the BeeGees. See Stayin Alive dance :specnatz:

GP
11-26-2007, 03:29 PM
I notice that there are some posters who have been here since the beginning, and they are treading carefully upon Herv's post. They understand what he's talking about. They have been a part of thousands of discussions about Texans football with Herv.

And then there's the guys who have 137 posts or so. Guys who either (A) lurked around for years, too scared to post (perhaps), or they are guys who have (B) just recently joined the discussion boards.

I haven't seen any of the "old guard" poke fun of Herv. But I have definitely seen some classless fans, those who weren't here for the beginning, who are piling on and puffing their chests out as if they are real bad dudes.

So to the "real fans" who are piling onto Herv, I say this: It takes a pretty big person to publicly announce that he's very near the breaking point, especially when you've been right there for so long. I would even go so far as to say that Herv IS a good fan because he is willing to stop playing pretend; he's allowing himself to question the ownership and overall direction of this team.

I mean, if you think that the owner and the top dogs of the NFL team you root for are possibly not made of the right stuff to get it done, it's not too far off to think that you ARE just wasting your time trying to believe in the team.

At the end of the day, a fan has to know that his team's owner and upper management are truly dedicated to the ART of trying to win a title. There are several teams in the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB who are looking at the profit line more than the stat line after the games and season are over.

Some of you guys need to lay off the little one-line zingers you are using to pad your post count. Come to the plate with more than just "Well, get out of here...see ya later!"

Don't lose heart, Herv. Your post might get read by someone in an important position with the Texans...and you might be the one post that changes the direction of this franchise.

IlliniJen
11-26-2007, 03:31 PM
Quitting?

Can I have your stuff?

IlliniJen
11-26-2007, 03:37 PM
I notice that there are some posters who have been here since the beginning, and they are treading carefully upon Herv's post. They understand what he's talking about. They have been a part of thousands of discussions about Texans football with Herv.

And then there's the guys who have 137 posts or so. Guys who either (A) lurked around for years, too scared to post (perhaps), or they are guys who have (B) just recently joined the discussion boards.

I haven't seen any of the "old guard" poke fun of Herv. But I have definitely seen some classless fans, those who weren't here for the beginning, who are piling on and puffing their chests out as if they are real bad dudes.

So to the "real fans" who are piling onto Herv, I say this: It takes a pretty big person to publicly announce that he's very near the breaking point, especially when you've been right there for so long. I would even go so far as to say that Herv IS a good fan because he is willing to stop playing pretend; he's allowing himself to question the ownership and overall direction of this team.

I mean, if you think that the owner and the top dogs of the NFL team you root for are possibly not made of the right stuff to get it done, it's not too far off to think that you ARE just wasting your time trying to believe in the team.

At the end of the day, a fan has to know that his team's owner and upper management are truly dedicated to the ART of trying to win a title. There are several teams in the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB who are looking at the profit line more than the stat line after the games and season are over.

Some of you guys need to lay off the little one-line zingers you are using to pad your post count. Come to the plate with more than just "Well, get out of here...see ya later!"

Don't lose heart, Herv. Your post might get read by someone in an important position with the Texans...and you might be the one post that changes the direction of this franchise.

I think you're just committing the same act of arrogance if you believe that the posters that haven't been HERE from the beginning are somehow less of a fan/poster/person/whatever just because they haven't been around an interwebs message board since day 1.

I think what you're trying to express that no one who has been a TEXANS fan from day 1 should have their fanhood questioned. Message board resident or not be damned, but I think all of us who have been on board with the Texans from the day the franchise was awarded to the city is feeling the pangs of frustration.

What I do not think is appropriate is for folks to call Herv a bandwagoner or whatever is implied by his not being "fan enough" by expressing a sense of helplessness in the face of what has been 6 rough years of mediocre football. But I also don't think flaunting messageboard membership from day 1 makes him any more of a fan than say, I dunno, myself, who has watched every game on TV save for maybe 2 or 3 because I was out of town. Just using myself as an example, but the old guard/new guard stuff doesn't account for it so much as long-suffering fan vs. classless "I'm a better fan than you" fandom.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 03:39 PM
I notice that there are some posters who have been here since the beginning, and they are treading carefully upon Herv's post. They understand what he's talking about. They have been a part of thousands of discussions about Texans football with Herv.

And then there's the guys who have 137 posts or so. Guys who either (A) lurked around for years, too scared to post (perhaps), or they are guys who have (B) just recently joined the discussion boards.

I haven't seen any of the "old guard" poke fun of Herv. But I have definitely seen some classless fans, those who weren't here for the beginning, who are piling on and puffing their chests out as if they are real bad dudes.

So to the "real fans" who are piling onto Herv, I say this: It takes a pretty big person to publicly announce that he's very near the breaking point, especially when you've been right there for so long. I would even go so far as to say that Herv IS a good fan because he is willing to stop playing pretend; he's allowing himself to question the ownership and overall direction of this team.

I mean, if you think that the owner and the top dogs of the NFL team you root for are possibly not made of the right stuff to get it done, it's not too far off to think that you ARE just wasting your time trying to believe in the team.

At the end of the day, a fan has to know that his team's owner and upper management are truly dedicated to the ART of trying to win a title. There are several teams in the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB who are looking at the profit line more than the stat line after the games and season are over.

Some of you guys need to lay off the little one-line zingers you are using to pad your post count. Come to the plate with more than just "Well, get out of here...see ya later!"

Don't lose heart, Herv. Your post might get read by someone in an important position with the Texans...and you might be the one post that changes the direction of this franchise.

If your just starting to question the ownership and coaches of this franchise, you haven't been paying very close attention.

Sounds to me like Herv doesn't get anything out of the Texans anymore but unhappyness. I understand and respect it and I agree that when that happens there is no reason to be a fan anymore. It's not about saying he is not a "real fan". It's about saying "Bye".

Regarding the bolded part, I don't think that questioning the ownership and overall direction of the team has anything to do with being a fan. I can do that with plenty of teams that I don't care about.

Seems that some of you are reading too much into this because the guy is a moderator. Just sounds like the Texans don't do anything positive for him anymore.

I stand by what I said before, if you can't stand to lose you don't deserve to win. Just like how if your not willing to put the work in you really don't deserve it. Not calling anybody fake fans. I'm just telling it like it is.

Hate me or not for addressing a moderator as I have. I really don't care.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 03:40 PM
What I do not think is appropriate is for folks to call Herv a bandwagoner or whatever is implied by his not being "fan enough" to express a sense of helplessness in the face of what has been 6 rough years of mediocre football. But I also don't think flaunting messageboard membership from day 1 makes him any more of a fan than say, I dunno, myself, who has watched every game on TV save for maybe 2 or 3 because I was out of town. Just using myself as an example, but the old guard/new guard stuff doesn't account for it so much as long-suffering fan vs. classless "I'm a better fan than you" fandom.

Exactly.

Texan_Bill
11-26-2007, 03:41 PM
hey man, they found that elusive intangible known as the funk on that number. :splits:

Love the BeeGees. See Stayin Alive dance :specnatz:

Ironically enough, I watched the whole video and started 'jivin'..... :spy:

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 03:47 PM
Again, completely typical. A respected, long-time Houston fan goes on the board and vents his (totally justifiable) angst over a truly stupid loss - and there you are, ready to shoot your mouth off in order to show everyone what a REAL Texans fan is like - you know, the real ones - like you.

And, in perfect form, you don't see anything disrespectful about it. You didn't tell Herv "Hey, I'll always be a fan", instead you basically told him to shut up and shove off if he can't hang wiith the real fans, like you. And when other respected members call you on it, you simply dig in.

It's all about your "fandom", as you call it. You might be the worst kind of fan there is.



I'm sorry. Maybe I should have joined the support group, given Herv a big hug and tell him it's going to be alright. My apologies, it just read like all the rest of the quitters posts.

At what point did I declare myself supreme Texan Fan #1, or should that be ActualTexan, my apologies for infringing on your turf.

Let’s say you go to the movies once a week. Each time you go to a movie, there’s a different kid in the movie crying for his parent to get him a drink/candy. Each week you’re “thinking”, I wish they would just get the kid a drink so he will shut up. After 10 weeks of hearing yet another kid crying for a drink/candy, you’re not thinking anymore and you just tell the parent to get the kid a drink/candy, makes no difference that it might not be the same kid every week, or a kid that 9/10 times is a perfect little soldier. Has nothing to do with Herv, personally, he just happened to be that parent in the movies, and I was venting at his vent? Or are we not allowed to do that?

dskillz
11-26-2007, 03:49 PM
Sounds like your the KING of changing words around. I don't have shit to say to you honestly. I'm tired of addressing posters like you.

Posters like me? What exactly does that mean? Why don't you explain yourself as you want to bring profanity to the discussion.

You made a comment saying that if you can't stand losing, you don't deserve to win. I made a comment saying that every NFL coach can't stand losing. So in other words, to attack someone here because they are frustrated and venting isn't right at all. Hell, does Dunta Robinson not deserve to win because he vents as well?

If that makes me not worthy of a response, just put me on your ignore list now.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 03:51 PM
I will say that if this exact post was posted by someone else, perhaps a random poster, there would not be as much support or as much "it's ok, your right" posts.

Posters like me? What exactly does that mean? Why don't you explain yourself as you want to bring profanity to the discussion.

People who change other people's words around to make a point. "Real fan" is something I never wrote on this message board.

"I guess all coaches in the NFL don't deserve to win. Because they all can't stand losing and it kills them not to win." In the way that I used the term "can't stand" it is pretty obvious what I meant by it, but you would like to change it to something different.

Like I said, I don't have shit to say to you. What you do is fine by me, it's just rediculous.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 04:01 PM
Posters like me? What exactly does that mean? Why don't you explain yourself as you want to bring profanity to the discussion.

You made a comment saying that if you can't stand losing, you don't deserve to win. I made a comment saying that every NFL coach can't stand losing. So in other words, to attack someone here because they are frustrated and venting isn't right at all. Hell, does Dunta Robinson not deserve to win because he vents as well?

If that makes me not worthy of a response, just put me on your ignore list now.

Maybe I should just define every word and term that I use when typing so that people like you are not confused. Please use logical thinking.

I'll do it this time for you. "Can't stand" - when one cannot subject themselves to something anymore so they eliminate the situation from their lives.

Bulluck53
11-26-2007, 04:06 PM
I wouldn't call the NFC East too shabby.

My bad I meant West, but you get the point.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 04:40 PM
And then there's the guys who have 137 posts or so. Guys who either (A) lurked around for years, too scared to post (perhaps), or they are guys who have (B) just recently joined the discussion boards.

I haven't seen any of the "old guard" poke fun of Herv. But I have definitely seen some classless fans, those who weren't here for the beginning, who are piling on and puffing their chests out as if they are real bad dudes.

That's me, the chest puffing lurker too scared to post. Before you lay down suppressing fire, at least be in the right grid.

markn
11-26-2007, 04:46 PM
And then there's the guys who have 137 posts or so. Guys who either (A) lurked around for years, too scared to post (perhaps), or they are guys who have (B) just recently joined the discussion boards.

It's the guys with about 41 posts who've been lurking around since last December that are really get on my nerves.

Double Barrel
11-26-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm sorry. Maybe I should have joined the support group, given Herv a big hug and tell him it's going to be alright. My apologies, it just read like all the rest of the quitters posts.

I guess rooting for a lost cause for 6 years never causes even the slightest frustration in you? You can be happy that our team is a joke and has never posted a winning record, much less won three games in a row in a season?

Braindead or spiked koolaide....I'm not sure which. :shades:

I will say that if this exact post was posted by someone else, perhaps a random poster, there would not be as much support or as much "it's ok, your right" posts.

Being a 'regular' has it's positives...we know Herv and consider him a good friend. BIG difference than a noob that has no history or background to consider.

Sometimes reputation of the speaker carries more weight than others. For instance, if President Bush says a terrorist is in a building, we might grant him a bit more credibility than say, Barney the 'hello guy' at your local Wal-Mart says the same thing.

This thread is called venting, folks. As in tired of rooting for a bland product whose destiny sometimes appears to be a lost cause. Rattle off all the positives, the hoped-fors next years, and all that jazz, but at the end of the day: 29-61, and we still suck after six straight seasons.

:texflag:

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 05:15 PM
Being a 'regular' has it's positives...we know Herv and consider him a good friend. BIG difference than a noob that has no history or background to consider.

Sometimes reputation of the speaker carries more weight than others. For instance, if President Bush says a terrorist is in a building, we might grant him a bit more credibility than say, Barney the 'hello guy' at your local Wal-Mart says the same thing.

This thread is called venting, folks. As in tired of rooting for a bland product whose destiny sometimes appears to be a lost cause. Rattle off all the positives, the hoped-fors next years, and all that jazz, but at the end of the day: 29-61, and we still suck after six straight seasons.

:texflag:

I realize that but no matter who it comes from when you say your done it means the same thing. Almost everybody is frustrated. When it comes to just being tired of losing, I don't really see how anybody's reputation supercedes anyone elses. Seems that the subject is about the level of tolerance that you have for losing, not your reputation as a poster.

It's venting unless he leaves, then it is a goodbye thread.

I'm sure age has alot to do with it. I'm only 20. I feel and hope I have alot more time to watch football and enjoy life. Spending my Sunday watching a losing team at my age doesn't seem to be much of a problem for me. However, I can see how it may be a problem if I were working 40 hours a week and Sunday was one of my only days to relax.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 05:18 PM
I guess rooting for a lost cause for 6 years never causes even the slightest frustration in you? You can be happy that our team is a joke and has never posted a winning record, much less won three games in a row in a season?

Braindead or spiked koolaide....I'm not sure which. :shades:

Sure it does, pisses me off to no end, and living in Cowboy country doesn't make it any easier, but I'm pretty certain I haven't stated that I'm "done with the team" or "not watching any more".



Being a 'regular' has it's positives...we know Herv and consider him a good friend. BIG difference than a noob that has no history or background to consider.

Sometimes reputation of the speaker carries more weight than others. For instance, if President Bush says a terrorist is in a building, we might grant him a bit more credibility than say, Barney the 'hello guy' at your local Wal-Mart says the same thing.

This thread is called venting, folks. As in tired of rooting for a bland product whose destiny sometimes appears to be a lost cause. Rattle off all the positives, the hoped-fors next years, and all that jazz, but at the end of the day: 29-61, and we still suck after six straight seasons.

:texflag:

To one of the other posters points…if you take away Herv’s number of posts, would you be defending the poster or the content?

Texan_Bill
11-26-2007, 05:20 PM
To one of the other posters points…if you take away Herv’s number of posts, would you be defending the poster or the content?

Actually yes... In other words, I would attack the post not the poster, stating what I disagree with and why.

Runner
11-26-2007, 05:30 PM
Actually the frustrating thing is that the team continues to make the same mistakes year after year as Herb pointed out. The corporate culture is hard to change.

Wasted first pick. The "give Mario some time excuses" are an echo of the same thing for Carr. Carr runs out of bounds for a sack, Mario gets stoned by a tight end on a running play. But he's still learning! Hardly.

Bad signing with big bonuses. Todd Wade=Anthony Weaver. Eric Moulds and Ahman Green. The last three are on Kubes - he was in control even when Casserly was here. Don't pass the buck for him.

Remember how the Texans would be fired up because "Kubes" brings leadership? The Browns were the team that wanted to take that game by the throat yesterday, and they did. The Texans got beat physically as well as mentally. I don't want to say heartless, because a lot of players give their all. I'll just say the team has no soul.

What do we hear after every game? Capers: We didn't execute. Kubes: It was my fault. Well then change something.

Many think this is a completely different Texans team than before. Well, it does have new players and a better quarterback. Other than that, on field results are about the same - for the same reasons.

If the Texans can go 2-3 from here on out, they'll match the best record of the Capers/Carr era. I keep reading about being two years removed from a two win team. They're only three years removed from a seven win team as well.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 05:34 PM
Actually the frustrating thing is that the team continues to make the same mistakes year after year as Herb pointed out. The corporate culture is hard to change.

Wasted first pick. The "give Mario some time excuses" are an echo of the same thing for Carr. Carr runs out of bounds for a sack, Mario gets stoned by a tight end on a running play. But he's still learning! Hardly.

Bad signing with big bonuses. Todd Wade=Anthony Weaver. Eric Moulds and Ahman Green. The last three are on Kubes - he was in control even when Casserly was here. Don't pass the buck for him.

Remember how the Texans would be fired up because "Kubes" brings leadership? The Browns were the team that wanted to take that game by the throat yesterday, and they did. The Texans got beat physically as well as mentally. I don't want to say heartless, because a lot of players give their all. I'll just say the team has no soul.

What do we hear after every game? Capers: We didn't execute. Kubes: It was my fault. Well then change something.

Many think this is a completely different Texans team than before. Well, it does have new players and a better quarterback. Other than that, on field results are about the same - for the same reasons.

If the Texans can go 2-3 from here on out, they'll match the best record of the Capers/Carr era. I keep reading about being two years removed from a two win team. They're only three years removed from a seven win team as well.


But are you quitting?

Runner
11-26-2007, 05:35 PM
But are you quitting?

I quit a long time ago.

DerekLee1
11-26-2007, 05:49 PM
If any of you want to be "done with this", then be done with it. Just don't come back a couple of years from now thumping your chest telling everyone "I was a fan all along; I've stuck with them since the beginning". Feeling disgusted and venting frustration is one thing; but you can't tell me that this team that's on the field right now isn't trying their hardest out there. I don't see a single player not giving it everything on the field. Kubiak gets fired up on the sidelines. Bob McNair jumps up and down every time we score. Don't tell me those guys don't want to win. It's not lack of effort; it's lack of talent, and THAT will get fixed in time.

But on this bus to the SuperBowl, it's for all my boys and girls that have been with me since Day One. The rest of you can just read it in the papers the next day.

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 05:55 PM
If any of you want to be "done with this", then be done with it. Just don't come back a couple of years from now thumping your chest telling everyone "I was a fan all along; I've stuck with them since the beginning". Feeling disgusted and venting frustration is one thing; but you can't tell me that this team that's on the field right now isn't trying their hardest out there. I don't see a single player not giving it everything on the field. Kubiak gets fired up on the sidelines. Bob McNair jumps up and down every time we score. Don't tell me those guys don't want to win. It's not lack of effort; it's lack of talent, and THAT will get fixed in time.

But on this bus to the SuperBowl, it's for all my boys and girls that have been with me since Day One. The rest of you can just read it in the papers the next day.

no offense...but did you actually read this thread?

DerekLee1
11-26-2007, 06:00 PM
no offense...but did you actually read this thread?

I got through about half of it and gave up. I'm just tired of the threats of "I'm quitting on this team".

TEXANRED
11-26-2007, 06:00 PM
Actually the frustrating thing is that the team continues to make the same mistakes year after year as Herb pointed out. The corporate culture is hard to change.

Wasted first pick. The "give Mario some time excuses" are an echo of the same thing for Carr. Carr runs out of bounds for a sack, Mario gets stoned by a tight end on a running play. But he's still learning! Hardly.

Bad signing with big bonuses. Todd Wade=Anthony Weaver. Eric Moulds and Ahman Green. The last three are on Kubes - he was in control even when Casserly was here. Don't pass the buck for him.

Remember how the Texans would be fired up because "Kubes" brings leadership? The Browns were the team that wanted to take that game by the throat yesterday, and they did. The Texans got beat physically as well as mentally. I don't want to say heartless, because a lot of players give their all. I'll just say the team has no soul.

What do we hear after every game? Capers: We didn't execute. Kubes: It was my fault. Well then change something.

Many think this is a completely different Texans team than before. Well, it does have new players and a better quarterback. Other than that, on field results are about the same - for the same reasons.

If the Texans can go 2-3 from here on out, they'll match the best record of the Capers/Carr era. I keep reading about being two years removed from a two win team. They're only three years removed from a seven win team as well.

This is a much different team otherwise people would not get so worked up about a loss. We expect this team to go out and win were as before we were hopefull and felt fortunate if we beat the other team.

We are three years removed from seven and nine but in that three years everything has changed. We have a new HC, GM, QB, new offensive schemes, new defensive schemes, new personnel at just about every position. You really have to look at it as year one and year two. IMO, the biggest thing that has held this team back was changing from the 34 to the 43. We had no DE's, no OLB's and no Safeties to play the 43. So have to draft Defense but at the same time try and draft offensive help that will fit the new offensive schemes.

Now we are changing again, Sherman leaving raises another question, are we going to run the Denver Zone block or continue to run Green Bay's style?

ActualTexan
11-26-2007, 06:07 PM
I got through about half of it and gave up. I'm just tired of the threats of "I'm quitting on this team".

....got it. No prob.

Runner
11-26-2007, 06:08 PM
This is a much different team otherwise people would not get so worked up about a loss. We expect this team to go out and win were as before we were hopefull and felt fortunate if we beat the other team.

We are three years removed from seven and nine but in that three years everything has changed. We have a new HC, GM, QB, new offensive schemes, new defensive schemes, new personnel at just about every position. You really have to look at it as year one and year two. IMO, the biggest thing that has held this team back was changing from the 34 to the 43. We had no DE's, no OLB's and no Safeties to play the 43. So have to draft Defense but at the same time try and draft offensive help that will fit the new offensive schemes.

Now we are changing again, Sherman leaving raises another question, are we going to run the Denver Zone block or continue to run Green Bay's style?


I don't think they get to start over at year one. The Texans were better when Kubiak got them than when they started from scratch.

Changing to a defensive scheme that doesn't fit the personnel isn't a very good reason to give them more time. Even if the theory is true, it was self inflicted. Having the wrong scheme for the available talent was the classic problem for the Palmer/Carr or the zone blocking scheme/Wade and Riley @ tackle offensive problems.

DerekLee1
11-26-2007, 06:13 PM
I don't think they get to start over at year one. The Texans were better when Kubiak got them than when they started from scratch.

Changing to a defensive scheme that doesn't fit the personnel isn't a very good reason to give them more time. Even if the theory is true, it was self inflicted. Having the wrong scheme for the available talent was the classic problem for the Palmer/Carr or the zone blocking scheme/Wade and Riley @ tackle offensive problems.

TOTALLY disagree here. Capers and Casserly RUINED this team. Bad personnel and a losing mentality hurts a team for years. Starting fresh from nothing lets you mold a team the way you want it. Would you rather build a house from scratch, or inherit an old house that's had pets soiling the carpet and kids tearing up the yard and drunk friends knocking holes in the walls and rotting fence boards, peeling paint, etc., etc. It's much harder to turn a team around than to start from scratch. Ask the Bengals. They were in the cellar for a decade and a half.

Runner
11-26-2007, 06:26 PM
Would you rather build a house from scratch, or inherit an old house that's had pets soiling the carpet and kids tearing up the yard and drunk friends knocking holes in the walls and rotting fence boards, peeling paint, etc., etc.

I'd rather have a good analogy.

DerekLee1
11-26-2007, 06:34 PM
I'd rather have a good analogy.

OK...build a new car from an auto parts store (with some junkyard parts where needed), or inherit a jalopy with bent rims (Domanick Davis), pistons that won't fire (Carr), no bumpers (offensive line), busted steering column (bad coaching), and a bent frame (lousy draft picks)? Oh...but the exhaust system works well (AJ).

Double Barrel
11-26-2007, 06:47 PM
I realize that but no matter who it comes from when you say your done it means the same thing. Almost everybody is frustrated. When it comes to just being tired of losing, I don't really see how anybody's reputation supercedes anyone elses. Seems that the subject is about the level of tolerance that you have for losing, not your reputation as a poster.

You stated: "I will say that if this exact post was posted by someone else, perhaps a random poster, there would not be as much support or as much "it's ok, your right" posts."

The reputation of a noob or 'random poster' does not exist. Herv has been a long time member of the board and we know how deep his loyalty to the team has always been. Part of being happy about winning is being angry over losses. Venting is one of the by-products of being angry. This thread is a vent rant.

Why is a person's fan support for a team questioned because of perceived "tolerance" towards garbage ball and consistently losing games? This makes no sense to me.

If you're happy with losing, then I contend you don't really care to begin with. :howdy:

It's venting unless he leaves, then it is a goodbye thread.

He never said he was leaving. His exact words were "I think I'm done caring for the year.". I reached that point earlier in the season. I still wear my hardhat and jerseys proudly to every game, and watch 100% of the away games, but I'm not basing my happiness and emotional state on a failing consumer entertainment product. Life is much richer and deeper than just living vicariously through a sports team.

Sure it does, pisses me off to no end, and living in Cowboy country doesn't make it any easier, but I'm pretty certain I haven't stated that I'm "done with the team" or "not watching any more".

Herv never said he was quitting. That is you blowing it out of your assumption. Comprehension of points is in order in for good communication skills.

To one of the other posters points…if you take away Herv’s number of posts, would you be defending the poster or the content?

Read his original post again. Tell me what you disagree with. It seems that you are Don Quixote attacking imaginary diseases, because what you are implying was never said to begin with.

Yes, I'd defend what the original post says regardless of who said it. I'm tired of watching a garbage product on the field and have serious concerns that the McNair FO runs this team like a business to make money instead of running it to be a championship caliber franchise. It's my opinion, but there is a lot of evidence available to support the premise.

Questioning the status quo does not equate to quitting, though....well, maybe in your mind it does, but I will not assume that is the case.

But are you quitting?

If I put sprinkles on a cat turd and tell you it's a brownie, would you eat it?

Again, a rant does not necessarily equal quit.

Page 6 (or 7 whatever), and the original post should be mentioned for clarity to all involved:

6 years of "keep your head up and quit panicking every time they lose" has me just about ready to walk away. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly where I am. Screw this mess. I've watched 115 games of almost exclusively bad football and I'm tired of it.

Honestly I'd rather watch no football at all than watch consistently bad football with no end in sight. The Texans are institutionally ignorant (still), poorly coached (still), loaded with physical specimens lacking genuine football skills (still), and despite improved statistical performances don't look any better as a group than they did in 2003 or 2004.

I'm not upset about the loss. I know many of you might not believe that but I trust that the posters who know me do. I'm upset about the way we lost and the way we continue to lose. I'm upset about a the damned turnover factory that Gary Kubiak seems to be running on double-shifts. I'm upset about the defense that can't get off the field when it needs to or stop a running back, or pressure a QB. I'm upset about the slugs we've wasted picks on and about the picks we didn't make when the player was right in front of our noses. I'm upset about the free agents we've signed and the ones we passed on who went on to play well for other teams.

I'm upset about our identity-less offense that seems to always be one play away from shooting itself in the foot. I'm sick of the Mike & Gary show and how they consistently go for 5 yards when we need 8. I'm sick of the poorly timed gimmicks and the apologies as Gary Kubiak thumps the podium while telling us all that "x" was (or wasn't) working and that it was his fault that they went away from it (or stuck with it too long).

Gary Kubiak is Hugh Campbell wearing a Butthead mask. Gary Kubiak is clearly in far over his head.

I think I'm done caring for the year. I'm getting close to being done caring at all. I don't like getting this upset on Sundays. I was a happier person having happier weekends before Bob McNair decided to play football owner (badly).

Attack the post, not the poster. I'd really like to engage any Texans apologist(s) that wish to counter Herv's points, because I've got some swamp property in Arizona that you might want to purchase. :cowboy1:

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 07:34 PM
I guess rooting for a lost cause for 6 years never causes even the slightest frustration in you? You can be happy that our team is a joke and has never posted a winning record, much less won three games in a row in a season?

Braindead or spiked koolaide....I'm not sure which. :shades:



Being a 'regular' has it's positives...we know Herv and consider him a good friend. BIG difference than a noob that has no history or background to consider.

Sometimes reputation of the speaker carries more weight than others. For instance, if President Bush says a terrorist is in a building, we might grant him a bit more credibility than say, Barney the 'hello guy' at your local Wal-Mart says the same thing.

This thread is called venting, folks. As in tired of rooting for a bland product whose destiny sometimes appears to be a lost cause. Rattle off all the positives, the hoped-fors next years, and all that jazz, but at the end of the day: 29-61, and we still suck after six straight seasons.

:texflag:

Spread some rep around. Well said. I think when you take things in context to the loyalty and desire that a poster has shown over the years it easier to see where it came from. Not only that but I really don't see where anything he said was that far off base. I'd rather have a passionate fan who let out his frustrations than people who keep saying that people need to accept our direction and deal with it.

swtbound07
11-26-2007, 07:36 PM
i've met herv. He's a good guy. This season sucks. Love is pain. Such is life. I wholeheartedly understand. I wish I had it in me to stop being so emotionally attached to this team. I don't. I dont' have it in me. I envy the ones who can. Every sunday is dread mixed with hope mixed with getting shot in the groin....oh wait, thats sean taylor's sunday. Disregard

Runner
11-26-2007, 07:40 PM
OK...build a new car from an auto parts store (with some junkyard parts where needed), or inherit a jalopy with bent rims (Domanick Davis), pistons that won't fire (Carr), no bumpers (offensive line), busted steering column (bad coaching), and a bent frame (lousy draft picks)? Oh...but the exhaust system works well (AJ).

The part of the analogy that is bad is that the old team had some good players (7-9 quality) besides Andre, and the new additions aren't all high quality.

They aren't rebuilding with excellent quality as your analogy suggests- Mario, Weaver, Flanagan, Black, Moulds, Green and other moves were rebuilding the same old house, car, whatever or just flat out wasting cap space. As usual.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 07:57 PM
Why is a person's fan support for a team questioned because of perceived "tolerance" towards garbage ball and consistently losing games? This makes no sense to me.The subject I was talking about was him leaving, not about questioning his fandom. I'm sure there are Texan fans who already quit caring, because their tolerance for some of the stupid things we have done was lower than ours.

If you're happy with losing, then I contend you don't really care to begin with. :howdy::

What are you supposed to do in protest losing? If I could do something and it would change some things, like hire a new defensive coordinator, I would but I can't. If you know a way how, show me where and sign me up.

His points are very good, I don't question them.

axman40
11-26-2007, 08:01 PM
Attack the post, not the poster. I'd really like to engage any Texans apologist(s) that wish to counter Herv's points, because I've got some swamp property in Arizona that you might want to purchase. :cowboy1:
I am still holding out for the coastal property in Nevada!
:cowboy1:

texasguy346
11-26-2007, 08:05 PM
Spread some rep around. Well said. I think when you take things in context to the loyalty and desire that a poster has shown over the years it easier to see where it came from. Not only that but I really don't see where anything he said was that far off base. I'd rather have a passionate fan who let out his frustrations than people who keep saying that people need to accept our direction and deal with it.

I tend to agree with you. We've all had a game or games where your frustration with the Texans boils over. The Browns game seems to be that game for Herv. There have been at least a few games over the last few years where I was in the same boat as Hervoyel. I really didn't think I could physically tolerate to watch this team play a losing brand of football week in and week out. However, after I cooled off & Sunday approached I found myself getting my hopes up once again that perhaps this Sunday I'd see the Texans play the brand of football I'd been hoping for through so many years. Still hasn't happened yet.

Hervoyel
11-26-2007, 08:14 PM
I don't recall asking anyone to talk me off of a ledge and for the record Double Barrell understood exactly what I meant. I don't care what happens in the win/loss column anymore this year. I can't afford to anymore this year. That's me. Your mileage may vary.

I don't know how "you" (speaking collectively to everyone who reads this) take your football. I don't know if you overreact or barely pay attention. I don't know if you're a face painter or somebody who sits through the games sipping your red wine and talking to a client. What's more I don't really care unless you want to post about it.

I get sick to my stomach when my team loses. I get so angry when the Texans do something stupid that my chest shrinks about three sizes and I get light headed and have to close my eyes and think about breathing for a while. I'm something of a hypertension poster child and I've got a cardiolagist who thinks that if we can ever find a way to turn cholesteral into gasoline then I'm going to single handedly put the middle-east out of business. I'm a 42 year old man from a line of men where exactly 1 person has made it past 49 years old without a heart attack in the past three generations. I've got an expiration date on me like a gallon of milk.

And I love watching my hometown team (Houston) play football. I take it too seriously and I know it. I let it get to me when I shouldn't and I know it.

I'm taking a break for a while. I don't want to watch any more of this for a while. I'm tired of it and no longer find it entertaining. It's entertainment after all not a damned religon.

Football and particularly NFL football is entertainment. It's a spectator sport that's played because people enjoy watching it and are willing to pay for the privilege to do so. Television shows are also entertainment as are movies and CD's. How long would you continue to watch a TV show that you were highly anticipating but that never panned out and stayed just as bad as it started? How many movies in a series would you pay to see if the first one was good and every one of the sequels sucked? Take your favorite music artist and tell me how many crappy CD's he\she\they have to put out before you decide to pass on the next one?

I'm stepping back and getting myself some perspective before I blow out an "o" ring or something. You guys carry on the good fight and have fun doing it. I'll come back next year and anyone who wants to give me crap for stepping off the bandwagon can have at it. I could not care less. When a "bandwagon" stays stuck in the mud for 6 years and never moves forward without slipping back into the ruts then I reserve the right to step off for a bit and stretch my friggin legs.

TEXANRED
11-26-2007, 08:19 PM
Spread some rep around. Well said. I think when you take things in context to the loyalty and desire that a poster has shown over the years it easier to see where it came from. Not only that but I really don't see where anything he said was that far off base. I'd rather have a passionate fan who let out his frustrations than people who keep saying that people need to accept our direction and deal with it.

True to a point. However, what makes this post any different than the countless other "I quite you" threads?

I find it ironic that the same people who defend this thread are the same people who would go and tell a poster they don't know to not let the door hit them on the way out.

Sure its Herv, and yes he has been a mighty contributor to this board over the years but does it make him any more of a fan than the guy who just signed on to vent his frustrations and looking for moral support?

I feel Herv's pain, I really do, but to be honest if I can survive seven straight one and done playoff appearances, 35-3, and a first round exit after winning 11 straight and home field throughout the playoffs, I can survive anything.

hookinreds
11-26-2007, 08:20 PM
Read his original post again. Tell me what you disagree with. It seems that you are Don Quixote attacking imaginary diseases, because what you are implying was never said to begin with. See below.


Attack the post, not the poster. I'd really like to engage any Texans apologist(s) that wish to counter Herv's points, because I've got some swamp property in Arizona that you might want to purchase. :cowboy1: How ironic that you don't even get the phrase right. Perhaps that was the Don Quixote imaginary disease setting in.

Originally Posted by Hervoyel
6 years of "keep your head up and quit panicking every time they lose" has me just about ready to walk away. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly where I am. Screw this mess. I've watched 115 games of almost exclusively bad football and I'm tired of it.

Context in between is arguable discussion.

I think I'm done caring for the year. I'm getting close to being done caring at all. I don't like getting this upset on Sundays. I was a happier person having happier weekends before Bob McNair decided to play football owner (badly). If it looks like a duck...

Carr Bombed
11-26-2007, 08:30 PM
You guys carry on the good fight and have fun doing it. I'll come back next year and anyone who wants to give me crap for stepping off the bandwagon can have at it.

Well as long as you come back next year..........it would suck to lose a quality poster like yourself over a crappy football team.

I'll hold down the fort on this swirling turd until you decide to return. :bag:

HoustonFrog
11-26-2007, 08:43 PM
True to a point. However, what makes this post any different than the countless other "I quite you" threads?

I find it ironic that the same people who defend this thread are the same people who would go and tell a poster they don't know to not let the door hit them on the way out.

Sure its Herv, and yes he has been a mighty contributor to this board over the years but does it make him any more of a fan than the guy who just signed on to vent his frustrations and looking for moral support?

I feel Herv's pain, I really do, but to be honest if I can survive seven straight one and done playoff appearances, 35-3, and a first round exit after winning 11 straight and home field throughout the playoffs, I can survive anything.

Well I don't think I have knocked the people I don't know either to tell you the truth. Not my style. I seem to relate more to the frustration and angst in the post than the poster himself. However, knowing what a hardcore fan he has been it is easier to relate. I was/is that way about Dallas since I grew up in Ft. Worth. I could win the lottery and have sex with a supermodel and a Cowboy loss would ruin the weekend in the old days...never happened though. :) I've mellowed. Since I moved here in 1993 and the Texans came along I have had a hard time getting on the train. The last couple of years I've started to and wanted to see success. So I can see the pain of those alot more invested. What you said is partly true but I can't lie and say that I don't relate more to someone I've seen dissect the team and talk pasionately about them. Just human nature. I also think alot of his points were spot on.

TexansSeminole
11-26-2007, 09:00 PM
Hope to see you on the message board again.

Speedy
11-26-2007, 09:32 PM
If any of you want to be "done with this", then be done with it. Just don't come back a couple of years from now thumping your chest telling everyone "I was a fan all along; I've stuck with them since the beginning".

See, why the hell would that matter to anybody? That's what I don't get. I don't care if you're a so-called bandwagoner, I don't care if you're a so-called fairweathered fan, I don't care if you go to all the games, I don't care if you never go to a game, I don't care if you've followed the team since 2000, I don't care if you start following the team when they clinch their 1st playoff berth, I don't care if you bleed Battle Red, I don't care if you post 10 gozillion times on a message board or 5 times, I don't care if you get too emotional, I get care if you have no emotion.

I DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF FAN YOU ARE!! (other than you being a belligerent buttmunch sitting by me at the game)

Let people be fans the way THEY want to be fans, or not, and not the way YOU want them to.

150+ posts about this man's rant and labeling what kind of fan he is for it?? Are you serious? There's gotta be something else to talk about.

TEXANRED
11-26-2007, 09:38 PM
It could always be worse, we could be the Dolphins.

frequentfliertx
11-26-2007, 09:45 PM
I don't know. We've got some decent receivers out there. OUR RUNNING GAME TRULY SUCKS!!!! How does this team compare with the old Oilers? I don't know. If we would've beaten Cleveland, then going into this week's game against the Titans we would've been a serious wild card contender. Instead we have another year of meaningless crap. I think that all us PSL owners are starting to feel like suckers for investing in this organization.

GP
11-26-2007, 09:48 PM
Quitting?

Can I have your stuff?

See? It's posts like this that I am talking about.

You just proved my point, pal.

One-line zingers that are meant to be cute...no real substance.

Seems you and your friends think it's comedy hour around here. You guys are the "SportsCenter" crowd...always trying to be a clown, trying to get over the top. You have zero respect for Herv.

People like you and the other 130-post crowd really don't get it. I think you're actually happy that the guy is disenfranchised about this team. I think you WANT him to go.

We need a moderator (Vinny?) to put some people in their places. I think it's pretty easy to see that we've got some guys here who are mostly interested in provoking others into endless and worthless dialogue.

I am more ashamed of some of YOU than I am of this team right now, and that's saying a lot. You guys need to take a seat and re-read your posts.

All this clowning, with the sarcastic one-liners, is getting to be more than just obnoxious. It's getting downright disrespectful and dishonoring of a guy who deserves more than to be KICKED when he's hurting, when he's not really needing anymore sucker punches.

Pat yourselves on your backs, you clowns. You're champs. :thumbup

frequentfliertx
11-26-2007, 09:49 PM
I mean, take this for instance. David Carr (no offense to DC, I still like him) was the franchise upon which the whole team was centered. Since his trade, he's been a bust in Carolina. And Bonselli, what a bust he was. And why did we get Ahman Green, who is 30 (way past his prime?) We have made so many bad decisions. Will it get better? Who knows?

texanfreak
11-26-2007, 10:27 PM
I am truly sorry to see any fan leave. however, if anyone wants to leave so be it.I have been and alway's will be a houston sport's fan. I will never root for a team from a different city.So all i can really say is goodbye

dalemurphy
11-26-2007, 10:41 PM
I don't recall asking anyone to talk me off of a ledge and for the record Double Barrell understood exactly what I meant. I don't care what happens in the win/loss column anymore this year. I can't afford to anymore this year. That's me. Your mileage may vary.

I don't know how "you" (speaking collectively to everyone who reads this) take your football. I don't know if you overreact or barely pay attention. I don't know if you're a face painter or somebody who sits through the games sipping your red wine and talking to a client. What's more I don't really care unless you want to post about it.

I get sick to my stomach when my team loses. I get so angry when the Texans do something stupid that my chest shrinks about three sizes and I get light headed and have to close my eyes and think about breathing for a while. I'm something of a hypertension poster child and I've got a cardiolagist who thinks that if we can ever find a way to turn cholesteral into gasoline then I'm going to single handedly put the middle-east out of business. I'm a 42 year old man from a line of men where exactly 1 person has made it past 49 years old without a heart attack in the past three generations. I've got an expiration date on me like a gallon of milk.

And I love watching my hometown team (Houston) play football. I take it too seriously and I know it. I let it get to me when I shouldn't and I know it.

I'm taking a break for a while. I don't want to watch any more of this for a while. I'm tired of it and no longer find it entertaining. It's entertainment after all not a damned religon.

Football and particularly NFL football is entertainment. It's a spectator sport that's played because people enjoy watching it and are willing to pay for the privilege to do so. Television shows are also entertainment as are movies and CD's. How long would you continue to watch a TV show that you were highly anticipating but that never panned out and stayed just as bad as it started? How many movies in a series would you pay to see if the first one was good and every one of the sequels sucked? Take your favorite music artist and tell me how many crappy CD's he\she\they have to put out before you decide to pass on the next one?

I'm stepping back and getting myself some perspective before I blow out an "o" ring or something. You guys carry on the good fight and have fun doing it. I'll come back next year and anyone who wants to give me crap for stepping off the bandwagon can have at it. I could not care less. When a "bandwagon" stays stuck in the mud for 6 years and never moves forward without slipping back into the ruts then I reserve the right to step off for a bit and stretch my friggin legs.

Understood. However, you will be missing out on some prime character building pain and suffering. For me, I'm going to continue to hope and get decimated with disappointment because one day... maybe a long time from now, it's going to pay off huge!

I became a Braves' fan in about 1980. That decade of pain and misery made the run in the 90s some of the best memories of my life. All these frustrations and losses go in the bank. Imagine how great that first division championship is going to be when it happens!

IlliniJen
11-26-2007, 11:16 PM
See? It's posts like this that I am talking about.

You just proved my point, pal.

One-line zingers that are meant to be cute...no real substance.

Seems you and your friends think it's comedy hour around here. You guys are the "SportsCenter" crowd...always trying to be a clown, trying to get over the top. You have zero respect for Herv.

People like you and the other 130-post crowd really don't get it. I think you're actually happy that the guy is disenfranchised about this team. I think you WANT him to go.

We need a moderator (Vinny?) to put some people in their places. I think it's pretty easy to see that we've got some guys here who are mostly interested in provoking others into endless and worthless dialogue.

I am more ashamed of some of YOU than I am of this team right now, and that's saying a lot. You guys need to take a seat and re-read your posts.

All this clowning, with the sarcastic one-liners, is getting to be more than just obnoxious. It's getting downright disrespectful and dishonoring of a guy who deserves more than to be KICKED when he's hurting, when he's not really needing anymore sucker punches.

Pat yourselves on your backs, you clowns. You're champs. :thumbup

You completely missed my intended point. Anyone else play MMORPGs here? Whenever someone spirals, the requisite response is 'can I have your stuff?'

IT'S A JOKE.

Now breathe. I guess us "noobs" need to annotate our posts a bit more.

IlliniJen
11-26-2007, 11:24 PM
I gotta say this...some of y'all would NEVER make it as Cubs fans. Now THAT'S some suffering. But you won't find one dyed in the wool Cubs fan giving up on their team EVER.

That's what I love about sports. It's not always pretty, and you can suffer a century of futility, but if you look forward to every year with the same hopefulness of the years past, no one can question your loyalty.

The Texans have been the "perfect storm" of circumstances. Inherited players, a mass of injuries, failed first round picks...I'm not so sure that I could make the claim that ownership is as lax as folks claim. Mistakes have been made but we're year 1 1/2 (if that, because you have to subtract a lot for having Carr last year) into a turn-around and anyone who expected to be in the playoffs this year...THE AFC PLAYOFFS, is just setting themselves up to be disappointed. So turn that frown upside down. It's a freakin' sport. If the team losing ruins the rest of your week, well, some self-correction probably needs to occur.

Leahmic223
11-27-2007, 12:34 AM
My god... this team is 5-6 going to week 13 and some people figure we are going backwards somehow...

hookinreds
11-27-2007, 01:27 AM
See? It's posts like this that I am talking about.

You just proved my point, pal.

One-line zingers that are meant to be cute...no real substance.

Seems you and your friends think it's comedy hour around here. You guys are the "SportsCenter" crowd...always trying to be a clown, trying to get over the top. You have zero respect for Herv.

People like you and the other 130-post crowd really don't get it. I think you're actually happy that the guy is disenfranchised about this team. I think you WANT him to go.

We need a moderator (Vinny?) to put some people in their places. I think it's pretty easy to see that we've got some guys here who are mostly interested in provoking others into endless and worthless dialogue.

I am more ashamed of some of YOU than I am of this team right now, and that's saying a lot. You guys need to take a seat and re-read your posts.

All this clowning, with the sarcastic one-liners, is getting to be more than just obnoxious. It's getting downright disrespectful and dishonoring of a guy who deserves more than to be KICKED when he's hurting, when he's not really needing anymore sucker punches.

Pat yourselves on your backs, you clowns. You're champs. :thumbup

You are absolutely right GP, it’s about post count and number of words per post that make the content valid. We should have been paying more attention to your original post. How did we miss this gem I’ll never know? I tried to remember some of your posts so that I knew where you were coming from before reviewing your “opinion”, but I couldn’t remember. After searching I remembered why, it’s because you jump back and forth over the fence more than my neighbor’s cat. I’ve never seen anybody declare “I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again” or “I knew from the beginning” in so many different ways and yet contradict yourself when the time is right.

Bob McNair is running this team for profit, not to win it all.

We are not New England, nor Indy, nor Pittsburgh. Those teams have owners who will mortgage their own house if they need to. Why leave out the other SB winning teams since 2000 (Rams, Ravens, Bucs).

I have come full circle on Jerry Jones and Bud Adams. I used to hate those two guys, but within the past few months...I have come to actually admire them. They will do whatever it takes to get it done: They CRAVE to be a winner.

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY GOT TO BE KIDDING!




1. I haven't bought the Richard Smith deal. And never will.
Think your hanging true on this one, but his tenure is still young.


2. I didn't buy the Ahman Green deal, and it looks like I'm right (again).


“GP;641867 Ahman Green signed. Because of Dayne's success, I ain't laughing at this move. We run the ZB scheme, Ahman hasn't been as injured as it's been theorized around here, and the guy averages 1200 yds. a year for a decade. He's a good decision for the reason of giving us a year or two to find a solid, younger RB for the future...thus, freeing us up to draft for other needs.”

“GP;707584 RB: "B." Dayne looked good. Ahman got 4 yards on a sweep/pitch that I was sure only got maybe 2 yards...so the fact that Ahman got 4 yards out of what I thought was a bad play is telling me that Ahman still has it."

Reads an awful lot like a vote of confidence from the beginning, or did you already say that?


3. I DID buy the Schaub deal, but now I'm having doubts.
Enquiring minds want to know? On or off?
But then I found the Holy Grail in these morsels of wisdom:

That's what I hate about the media, it;s why I made a big jump during college years to get away from a journalism major and just get a P.R. and Advertising degree...at least in Advertising or P.R. you are "who you are" instead of journalists who fake it all the time and jump from ship to ship as the tide turns different ways.

My thoughts exactly.
We live in a world where people remember only what happened over the past 24 hours. Once the 24 hours has passed, it's back to square one.
It's like watching a rally in tennis around here:
Carr did great!
Carr $#%@& sucks.
Carr did great!
Carr $#%@& sucks.
Carr did great!
Carr $#%@& sucks.
Back and forth, back and forth.
Amazing.
Just pick a side and stay there, that's what I say.
Kind of what we’d like to say to, but you’ve been saying it all along.
Why do you need Vinny/moderator? I don’t believe I’ve posted anything out of line or taken a different stance from when I was posting with him and the rest of the “old guard” back in the day or any other post I’ve made on this board.

Note: Last post for me on this one, pretty played out. Oh and I PM’d Hervoyel since I was replying to the title, opening and closing statements and didn’t see who posted. Thought it was a typical after lost game post.

GP
11-27-2007, 08:02 AM
You completely missed my intended point. Anyone else play MMORPGs here? Whenever someone spirals, the requisite response is 'can I have your stuff?'

IT'S A JOKE.

Now breathe. I guess us "noobs" need to annotate our posts a bit more.

Uhhh...I think I understand now.

You ASSUME that we know what you mean because evvvvverybody plays MMORPGS (whatever that is)...okey dokey.

When you post something, it might be a good idea to "annotate" as you mentioned. All I saw, and I all I STILL see is a bunch of guys knocking on someone and dragging the corpse around the streets of texanstalk.com.

Granted, Herv has not asked for anyone to feel sorry for him. But the guy is a fellow fan, and for a lot of you to just kick him to the curb...well, it rubs me raw to see you so blindly loyal to a team of spoiled millionaires and yet you can't be understanding and even remotely nice to a MAN who has also followed this same team that you apparently worship more than real people whom you spend time with on this board.

Out.

bigbrewster2000
11-27-2007, 09:48 AM
See? It's posts like this that I am talking about.

You just proved my point, pal.

One-line zingers that are meant to be cute...no real substance.

Seems you and your friends think it's comedy hour around here. You guys are the "SportsCenter" crowd...always trying to be a clown, trying to get over the top. You have zero respect for Herv.

People like you and the other 130-post crowd really don't get it. I think you're actually happy that the guy is disenfranchised about this team. I think you WANT him to go.

We need a moderator (Vinny?) to put some people in their places. I think it's pretty easy to see that we've got some guys here who are mostly interested in provoking others into endless and worthless dialogue.

I am more ashamed of some of YOU than I am of this team right now, and that's saying a lot. You guys need to take a seat and re-read your posts.

All this clowning, with the sarcastic one-liners, is getting to be more than just obnoxious. It's getting downright disrespectful and dishonoring of a guy who deserves more than to be KICKED when he's hurting, when he's not really needing anymore sucker punches.

Pat yourselves on your backs, you clowns. You're champs. :thumbup

I think it is pretty funny that you are screaming for the moderator that is famous for one line zingers.

Texans Horror
11-27-2007, 10:49 AM
Hey, it's going to be a frustrating season. We knew going into the season that watching the Texans this year would be agonizing. Not because they have the crap pounded out of them week-in and week-out, but because they are close to winning some of these games, and they are just a little off from being a dominating team. They lack that extra year of being together, that extra offseason of tuning the team, and two or three additional solid players on the team. It's not as far off as the record shows. Schaub should get better. He's playing like a rookie right now and making some bad throws. The defense is being insconsistent. Injuries have plagued the team. In my book, they should have beaten Atlanta and now Cleveland. There will be more frustrating, close-call games ahead. But in the end, I think the Texans are on the cusp of turning things around. So I'm not as frustrated watching some of these losses as I was watching the complete apathy of the 2-14 season. Losing is a habit, but so is winning, and they're learning good habits.

jerek
11-27-2007, 10:52 AM
I reserve the right to step off for a bit and stretch my friggin legs.

Take a well deserved break--I know exactly what you mean--but please stick around the boards! I enjoy reading your posts.

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 11:10 AM
You completely missed my intended point. Anyone else play MMORPGs here? Whenever someone spirals, the requisite response is 'can I have your stuff?'

IT'S A JOKE.

Now breathe. I guess us "noobs" need to annotate our posts a bit more.

Don't explain levity to people that don't understand levity... Not unlike PD's post about 'Jive talking'.... Sometimes a funny one liner can lighten the mood. Unfortunately this thread went ugly way to fast to have an impact.

************************************************** *****

By the same token, Herv, take all the time you need. We don't always agree on things, but I still enjoyed your posts and sometimes discussing them with you, albeit from a differet point of view.

Your intial post for example. I am as frustrated as you are but not for necessrialy the same things that you are. I wanted to post what I agreed with and what I disagreed with - but unfortunately this thread spiraled out of control - way too quickly.

Hang in there Herv - and we'll be here when you are done 'stretching'...

GP
11-27-2007, 11:27 AM
I think it is pretty funny that you are screaming for the moderator that is famous for one line zingers.

That was intentional, on my behalf. Thank you for playing along and helping me to make a point.

I wanted to show you that you guys KNOW there is a standard of conduct here (an unwritten rule about treating each other fairly), and I think it's funny that the 130-post crowd isn't held to the standard...but I go with a zinger and WHAM! it's "Well, well...look at you! You're not so big yourself."

Thus, someone trying to point out that I broke a rule is in essence admitting that there is a field of play where the conduct needs to be on-the-level.

Scan my posts. They are about 99% structured in every form: Grammar, paragraphs, spelling, a logical flow of thoughts and ideas (whether you agree with it or not). I try to use real instances, quotes from players/coaches, situations on the field and in the media coverage, and my own observations to bring some form of objective and constructive analysis to the discussions. I typically avoid the threads that I know are just baiting everyone into a big flame war. Being around the boards this long has taught me THAT much.

What I am upset about, in this thread, is that we have some posters who are using little Seinfeld/sarcastic one-line zingers...cute remarks and put-downs with no real input to the conversation. It's typical one-upsmanship whereby a person says something and a whole string of people just rattle off little quips to get a giggle and to try and outdo the other guy.

That's all fine and well, IMO, when the topic is lighthearted. But you guys are just bashing away at a fellow fan in a thread where al the guy wanted to do is express what he thinks he is seeing. He offered a LOT of points, and I really don't see most of the posters trying to address those points. I see "Get out of here" or " Go ahead! Jump!," or "Buh-bye," or "See ya'," or "Can I have your stuff." I mean, come one guys...is that the best you can do?

And then there are the posters who have been here for a long time. They are saying "Hey man, I understand. Just make sure you come back," or "Well, I will miss you because I enjoyed hanging out here with you and talking football."

See the difference?

I don't know. Maybe I need to lower my expectation(s) of a few posters on this board. Maybe I have unfairly held a few to the standards that some others are living up to and seem to hold in high regard.

I just really don't see the deserved respect for a longtime fan (not a bandwagonner, as a few of you are charging) and it irks me. You're not showing a sense of history around here, an appreciation for what the long-term guys have brought to the table.

So be it.

mridge01
11-27-2007, 11:39 AM
My god... this team is 5-6 going to week 13 and some people figure we are going backwards somehow...

Probably because the Texans are not going forward. I'm with hervoyel. The biggest factor with this team is identity. Kubiak has had 27 games with this team and I still don't know what it is it does well. Even when they win you kind of wonder how it happened. I looked at the stats after the Saints game and was surprised the Texans won by 13 points. They only had one sack and I never saw a pass rush on Brees the whole game. All they've done all year is beat bad teams (Chiefs, Panthers, Dolphins, Raiders, Saints), lose to the crappy Falcons (injuries I guess though it doesn't explain the defense), and lose to teams with better records (Colts, Titans, Jags, Chargers, Browns). That tells me they are a little more talented than the worst teams in the league, but still can't hold the jocks of teams that are .500 or better. I wasn't all that upset the Texans lost to the Browns b/c they never win games against equally matched teams on the road. Somehow they find ways to look incompetent and lose.

TEXANRED
11-27-2007, 11:50 AM
Good job Herv look what you have done.

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria! (Ghostbusters, joke reference, figured i better annotate that)

This is kinda like a David Carr thread..... who has more credibility, who has been a fan longer, who is the bigger fan, questioning peoples devotion to the team. Noobs -vs- the Old Timers.....Good times.

If the team losing ruins the rest of your week, well, some self-correction probably needs to occur.

Things kinda get put in perspective after what happened to Sean Taylor, not only did a young man lose his life but he also left behind his one year old daughter that will never get to know her father.

There are more important things in life than football....not many though.

Leahmic223
11-27-2007, 12:13 PM
Probably because the Texans are not going forward. I'm with hervoyel. The biggest factor with this team is identity. Kubiak has had 27 games with this team and I still don't know what it is it does well. Even when they win you kind of wonder how it happened. I looked at the stats after the Saints game and was surprised the Texans won by 13 points. They only had one sack and I never saw a pass rush on Brees the whole game. All they've done all year is beat bad teams (Chiefs, Panthers, Dolphins, Raiders, Saints), lose to the crappy Falcons (injuries I guess though it doesn't explain the defense), and lose to teams with better records (Colts, Titans, Jags, Chargers, Browns). That tells me they are a little more talented than the worst teams in the league, but still can't hold the jocks of teams that are .500 or better. I wasn't all that upset the Texans lost to the Browns b/c they never win games against equally matched teams on the road. Somehow they find ways to look incompetent and lose.

Not going forward? Maybe you are unaware of where we have been the last 6 years. Our season was DONE by now last season. We were looking at who we could and should get. The year before that our season was done before week 8. Also no pass rush on Brees...I am not sure what game you watched.

No matter how you try to slice it up, its 5-6, a record we've never seen this far into the season. People don't chalk us up as wins any more. People are overreacting and expected too much from them this year. The journey to being a good team isn't going to look pretty, it isn't going to always look good. But if you see your record go up DESPITE your schedule, it usually means the team improved. Beating teams you should beat and losing to teams you should does not make you a crappy team, it makes you a mediocre team. A crappy team is looking at the NFL draft right now, things could be MUCH worse than they are now.

Mr. White
11-27-2007, 12:14 PM
Fandom in general is a pretty subjective thing. The reason that I'm a sports fan at this stage in my life is pretty simple. I'm married and have a family and a stable job and require a form of entertainment that won't be harmful to that lifestyle. I used to be a musician and lived my life accordingly. There were a few years where I could give a rat's ass about sports.

Perspective is a pretty important thing to remember here. I don't really agree with fans telling other fans how to be fans. There are a lot more important things in life. (No offense to hookinreds here or anyone else in particular. Just talking in general.)

Take for example my secondary fanhood of the Cowboys. I grew up watching them when the Oilers were blacked out (which was often.) It seems like I watch almost all their games, but I'm not heartbroken when they lose. I even pile on a little bit for fun when people bash them. It's just too damn easy.

Most people around here grew up hating the Cowboys. I never got the memo that Houstonians were supposed to hate all things Dallas. All I knew was that was the only team that I got to see on Sundays for the better part of the 1980's.

By the same token, as much as I tried to, I didn't really care much when they won Super Bowls. I probably won't care much this year if they go this year either. And I won't be surpised when the Patriots stomp a mudhole in their asses again.

I'll watch damn near any game and pick a side for any stupid reason (usually uniforms,) but there's only one team that I ride or die with.

Take care, Herv. We'll leave the light on.

aj.
11-27-2007, 12:50 PM
I'm not reading 9 pages - someone catch me up.

But first, I'll take a stab at it and someone can tell me if I got the gist.

1. Someone has had it and they're calling it quits.
2. Others pile on, calling the person fairweather and bandwagon.
3. Still others pile on the piler's on - defending the person who has called it quits.
4. The thread spirals into the abyss of 'what is a true fan,' and 'I've been here for x years and you haven't so what I say has more credibility.'
5. Someone brings up David Carr's gloves.
6. Someone else posts something smart ass like this.

Did that about get it?

Honoring Earl 34
11-27-2007, 12:53 PM
I'm not reading 9 pages - someone catch me up.

But first, I'll take a stab at it and someone can tell me if I got the gist.

1. Someone has had it and they're calling it quits.
2. Others pile on, calling the person fairweather and bandwagon.
3. Still others pile on the piler's on - defending the person who has called it quits.
4. The thread spirals into the abyss of 'what is a true fan,' and 'I've been here for x years and you haven't so what I say has more credibility.'
5. Someone brings up David Carr's gloves.
6. Someone else posts something smart ass like this.

Did that about get it?

What about the we should have drafted Vince Bush ?

stevn8r
11-27-2007, 12:59 PM
I am a fan, period! I always have been and always will be. I will be happy when we win and sad when we lose. If we go to the playoffs, then I get to be a fan for that year a little longer and I can watch the Texans play a few more games that year.

I'm not reading 9 pages - someone catch me up.

But first, I'll take a stab at it and someone can tell me if I got the gist.

1. Someone has had it and they're calling it quits.
2. Others pile on, calling the person fairweather and bandwagon.
3. Still others pile on the piler's on - defending the person who has called it quits.
4. The thread spirals into the abyss of 'what is a true fan,' and 'I've been here for x years and you haven't so what I say has more credibility.'
5. Someone brings up David Carr's gloves.
6. Someone else posts something smart ass like this.

Did that about get it?

Thanks for the wrap up! :texflag: :fans:

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 01:12 PM
I'm not reading 9 pages - someone catch me up.

But first, I'll take a stab at it and someone can tell me if I got the gist.

1. Someone has had it and they're calling it quits.
2. Others pile on, calling the person fairweather and bandwagon.
3. Still others pile on the piler's on - defending the person who has called it quits.
4. The thread spirals into the abyss of 'what is a true fan,' and 'I've been here for x years and you haven't so what I say has more credibility.'
5. Someone brings up David Carr's gloves.
6. Someone else posts something smart ass like this.

Did that about get it?
Thats it in a nutshell!!

What about the we should have drafted Vince Bush ?

Oh, I think that was thrown in there somewhere as well!!

Also add in 'post whores'.....

Imatexanfan
11-27-2007, 01:13 PM
I was saying that I'm gone too when they didn't draft VY but it don't matter to me no more, I live by the sword and so will die by the sword. I've been a Houston fan since 1982. I live for tomorrow and today again will be yesterday's tomorrow. This franchise is only what 5/6 years old but it is getting better than before. After all these years come on they're only a year or two away and a player or two away from being real contenders. The playoff possibility is interesting but only because other .500 teams in contention with wild cards. :texflag:

I imagine what if they had all been healthy and playing all the way down to even Spencer but once again I live for tomorrow and hopefully the lessons learned from the past will only get better. Believe me patience is a virtue and it's been over like 40 years now. Hell even the Astros finally just made it to the world series a few years ago after all those years and I stand by them too. Go Texans until it's written on my tombstone. Not giving up on your losing team may be more important than winning but they will have their glorious time someday without Bush or VY.:fans:

powerfuldragon
11-27-2007, 01:29 PM
wait for it.

HOU-TEX
11-27-2007, 01:32 PM
:popcorn:

powerfuldragon
11-27-2007, 01:34 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/Waambulance.jpg

or maybe, some may be in need of a pair of peepers like those worn my good friend Lt. Geordi La Forge.





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/laforge.jpg

Hookem Horns
11-27-2007, 01:51 PM
I know I would be better off in life if I just didn't care about sports period. Sports are almost like an addicting drug. Even if you win it all the "high" doesn't last. I suffered with the NY Rangers for years, they were the perennial playoff chokers for decades. Some said they were cursed because when something could go wrong it typically always would. Opposing fans would chant "1940!" at their road games since that was the last time they ever touched the Cup. Of course I wasn't born before 1940 so I never saw them win anything. FINALLY in 1994 it happened and they made us fans suffer the whole way by having all the games close, OT, and almost blowing Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals. However in 1994 they finally brought back the Cup. That same year I saw the Rockets win their first NBA Championship. At the time everyone thought I was a bandwagon jumper (I lived in Delaware) because I rooted for both the Rangers and Rockets. Only those that knew me could testify that I have been rooting for those teams my whole life. Seeing the Rangers win the Cup was the greatest sports high I have ever been on, it was great. The Rockets thing was icing on the cake however I am not as big a basketball fan. However no sooner than I can wipe the champaign off my mouth fellow fans were already talking about next year. Who are is coming back? Is the coach going to stay? Can the Rangers repeat? I was thinking "I don't want next year, I want to celebrate THIS year". However, before I knew it next year was already here and the Cup was now just a memory. It's a never ending cycle. Kinda like drugs.

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 01:56 PM
I know I would be better off in life if I just didn't care about sports period. Sports are almost like an addicting drug. Even if you win it all the "high" doesn't last. I suffered with the NY Rangers for years, they were the perennial playoff chokers for decades. Some said they were cursed because when something could go wrong it typically always would. Opposing fans would chant "1940!" at their road games since that was the last time they ever touched the Cup. Of course I wasn't born before 1940 so I never saw them win anything. FINALLY in 1994 it happened and they made us fans suffer the whole way by having all the games close, OT, and almost blowing Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals. However in 1994 they finally brought back the Cup. That same year I saw the Rockets win their first NBA Championship. At the time everyone thought I was a bandwagon jumper (I lived in Delaware) because I rooted for both the Rangers and Rockets. Only those that knew me could testify that I have been rooting for those teams my whole life. Seeing the Rangers win the Cup was the greatest sports high I have ever been on, it was great. The Rockets thing was icing on the cake however I am not as big a basketball fan. However no sooner than I can wipe the champaign off my mouth fellow fans were already talking about next year. Who are is coming back? Is the coach going to stay? Can the Rangers repeat? I was thinking "I don't want next year, I want to celebrate THIS year". However, before I knew it next year was already here and the Cup was now just a memory. It's a never ending cycle. Kinda like drugs.


Great post and analogy!! For me, I guess the difference between Oilers days and now as a Texan fan, is that I went from being an addict to a social user... In other words, I no longer throw shoes at my television set, punch walls or go into a drunken stooper (see Buffalo game)... I'm still a rabid fan, but no longer let the outcome of the game have an outcome on 'my' actions.

bigbrewster2000
11-27-2007, 02:02 PM
That was intentional, on my behalf. Thank you for playing along and helping me to make a point.

I wanted to show you that you guys KNOW there is a standard of conduct here (an unwritten rule about treating each other fairly), and I think it's funny that the 130-post crowd isn't held to the standard...but I go with a zinger and WHAM! it's "Well, well...look at you! You're not so big yourself."

Thus, someone trying to point out that I broke a rule is in essence admitting that there is a field of play where the conduct needs to be on-the-level.

Scan my posts. They are about 99% structured in every form: Grammar, paragraphs, spelling, a logical flow of thoughts and ideas (whether you agree with it or not). I try to use real instances, quotes from players/coaches, situations on the field and in the media coverage, and my own observations to bring some form of objective and constructive analysis to the discussions. I typically avoid the threads that I know are just baiting everyone into a big flame war. Being around the boards this long has taught me THAT much.

What I am upset about, in this thread, is that we have some posters who are using little Seinfeld/sarcastic one-line zingers...cute remarks and put-downs with no real input to the conversation. It's typical one-upsmanship whereby a person says something and a whole string of people just rattle off little quips to get a giggle and to try and outdo the other guy.

That's all fine and well, IMO, when the topic is lighthearted. But you guys are just bashing away at a fellow fan in a thread where al the guy wanted to do is express what he thinks he is seeing. He offered a LOT of points, and I really don't see most of the posters trying to address those points. I see "Get out of here" or " Go ahead! Jump!," or "Buh-bye," or "See ya'," or "Can I have your stuff." I mean, come one guys...is that the best you can do?

And then there are the posters who have been here for a long time. They are saying "Hey man, I understand. Just make sure you come back," or "Well, I will miss you because I enjoyed hanging out here with you and talking football."

See the difference?

I don't know. Maybe I need to lower my expectation(s) of a few posters on this board. Maybe I have unfairly held a few to the standards that some others are living up to and seem to hold in high regard.

I just really don't see the deserved respect for a longtime fan (not a bandwagonner, as a few of you are charging) and it irks me. You're not showing a sense of history around here, an appreciation for what the long-term guys have brought to the table.

So be it.

Look, i don't personally care how structured your posts are(good for you) and you should not care or take offense when someone sends a one line zinger at someone.(that by the way was not even directed at you) Especially because the guy you are attacking made his point the very next post with substance in it. You are only attacking one guy basically for doing it. Effectively just the new posters.

You are the one that is not really making this a friendly place. PD is doing the exact same thing with his pictures and videos and not a stinking peep from you. PD that stuff is hilarious by the way. Keep it coming. Pretty much what you are saying is that if I dont have as many posts as you then I am not worthy of an opinion.

You need to get real and lower you expectations because this is in fact a place with many opinions and personalities, and you need to learn to get along on here and for a guy with over 1000 posts you ought to know that since post count seems to be so important to you.

If you dont like the one liners then ignore them. We are all able to write something structured but that is not always my agenda when I come on here. It's to talk people, get news, and commiserate with fellow Texans fans. You are making silly arguments.

Double Barrel
11-27-2007, 02:23 PM
How ironic that you don't even get the phrase right. Perhaps that was the Don Quixote imaginary disease setting in.


Oh Mighty Master Phraser, please have mercy and shed your infinite knowledge upon us less worthy creatures in order that we may be enlightened by the glory of your wisdom. :rolleyes: whatever

I don't know. Maybe I need to lower my expectation(s) of a few posters on this board. Maybe I have unfairly held a few to the standards that some others are living up to and seem to hold in high regard.


If you have no expectations, you will not be let down. :howdy:

5. Someone brings up David Carr's gloves.


You are the first to mention The Gloves. Congrats. :gun:

powerfuldragon
11-27-2007, 02:42 PM
*sneaks off to distribute these to 'the 130-post crowd'*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/comman19081.jpg

TEXANRED
11-27-2007, 03:04 PM
I'm not reading 9 pages - someone catch me up.

But first, I'll take a stab at it and someone can tell me if I got the gist.

1. Someone has had it and they're calling it quits.
2. Others pile on, calling the person fairweather and bandwagon.
3. Still others pile on the piler's on - defending the person who has called it quits.
4. The thread spirals into the abyss of 'what is a true fan,' and 'I've been here for x years and you haven't so what I say has more credibility.'
5. Someone brings up David Carr's gloves.
6. Someone else posts something smart ass like this.

Did that about get it?

DING DING DING, you are the winner, tell him what he has won chuck.......All the kids toys made in China you could possibly want!!

BeerTastesLikeVictory
11-27-2007, 03:08 PM
Zing!

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 03:09 PM
*sneaks off to distribute these to 'the 130-post crowd'*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/comman19081.jpg

Thats what I'm talking about PD.... :specnatz:

TEXANRED
11-27-2007, 03:09 PM
Zing!

La Choy makes Chinese food "Zing" American.

GP
11-27-2007, 04:08 PM
Look, i don't personally care how structured your posts are(good for you) and you should not care or take offense when someone sends a one line zinger at someone.(that by the way was not even directed at you) Especially because the guy you are attacking made his point the very next post with substance in it. You are only attacking one guy basically for doing it. Effectively just the new posters.

You are the one that is not really making this a friendly place. PD is doing the exact same thing with his pictures and videos and not a stinking peep from you. PD that stuff is hilarious by the way. Keep it coming. Pretty much what you are saying is that if I dont have as many posts as you then I am not worthy of an opinion.

You need to get real and lower you expectations because this is in fact a place with many opinions and personalities, and you need to learn to get along on here and for a guy with over 1000 posts you ought to know that since post count seems to be so important to you.

If you dont like the one liners then ignore them. We are all able to write something structured but that is not always my agenda when I come on here. It's to talk people, get news, and commiserate with fellow Texans fans. You are making silly arguments.

Well, there's not enough time for me type responses to all the posters here who are having a good time with all this. I'm not trying to be the police, but I think a lot of people see through all of it for what it really has been: A bunch of guys getting their kicks off of dogging a fellow fan.

I don't know how much more I can do to get that point across.

When people know they've stepped over the line, they tend to continue down the path of being a jerk about it. Human nature doesn't want ourselves to look within and think we might have overstepped our boundaries.

You say this is a place to mingle with fellow fans...but I see a wolfpack mentality of guys ganging up on someone.

I have stood by a fellow fan. And if I get dogged for doing it, then so be it.

GP
11-27-2007, 04:13 PM
And, "No," post count is not the only thing that matters.

This is being proved by the same ones I am calling out: The ones who build their post count off of cute little sarcastic comments.

My posts are usually medium-to-long in length. I have a lot to share about what I think about this team. I respond to others with my own opinions and ideas. They might not be correct, but they have some basis in constructiveness (if that's a word).

So here's the point where someone comes along and rattles off something corny, or attach a funny photo. Because, after all, we like to stay on topic with our posts, correct? :cool:

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 04:23 PM
And, "No," post count is not the only thing that matters.

This is being proved by the same ones I am calling out: The ones who build their post count off of cute little sarcastic comments.

My posts are usually medium-to-long in length. I have a lot to share about what I think about this team. I respond to others with my own opinions and ideas. They might not be correct, but they have some basis in constructiveness (if that's a word).

So here's the point where someone comes along and rattles off something corny, or attach a funny photo. Because, after all, we like to stay on topic with our posts, correct? :cool:

Who ARE you calling out. I post plenty of one liners. I also applaud those that do with a sense of humor, without berating anyone else. I am totally against one liners that attack a poster and not the post, but other than that I could care less if your (anyone's) post contains 10 characters or 14,000. Why should anyone care?

I also add to the topic at hand unless, as is the case here, the topic has become so derailed that people can't even remember it was about Herv 'up to here' with the losing. As I said several pages ago, Herv and I have agreed and disagreed over many of topics, however, we discuss them without the name calling or the BS. Once again, attack the post, not the poster.


I am just trying to figure out what your stance is, since, I often go for the humorous posts and sometimes the one liners.

GP
11-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Who ARE you calling out. I post plenty of one liners. I also applaud those that do with a sense of humor, without berating anyone else. I am totally against one liners that attack a poster and not the post, but other than that I could care less if your (anyone's) post contains 10 characters or 14,000. Why should anyone care?

I also add to the topic at hand unless, as is the case here, the topic has become so derailed that people can't even remember it was about Herv 'up to here' with the losing. As I said several pages ago, Herv and I have agreed and disagreed over many of topics, however, we discuss them without the name calling or the BS. Once again, attack the post, not the poster.


I am just trying to figure out what your stance is, since, I often go for the humorous posts and sometimes the one liners.

You are, in my estimation, engaging in dialogue with me. You and I have kicked around the ideas over in the Richard Smith thread. There's a two-way line of communication with you and I.

But take a look at those who seem to only post when they have a one-liner to share. THAT'S who I am talking about. This whole thread is full of guys who have posted anywhere from a half-dozen or so one-liners and smack talk remarks. Heck, there's times in this thread where it goes 3 or 4 or 5 replies and they are ALL cute little zingers, aimed at nothing more than trying to poke fun of someone.

Their attention was on Herv, but now it's on me. I don't care. I just feel strongly that some people are only on the boards to frustrate and rag on people. Period. And then, sometimes, they pulla real post out of their hat for good measure.

But I think there's a lot of people who come here PRIMARILY to antagonize.

I engage in dialogue. In fact, it's hard sometimes to really find anything in the threads that really is an actual football conversation where we can discuss stuff.

I teach High School, and I see this same sort of immaturity every day. It doesn't help me to come here and see people who are 35 or 43 and act the same way on a pretty consistent basis instead of enagaging in actual dialogue most of the time.

Add to it that I think some posters are dogging a fellow fan, and I've just been irked to the inth degree today.

Double Barrel
11-27-2007, 04:50 PM
I've said it before and I shall say it again: if you are a fan of the Texans after these first six years, you are a fan. There is no bandwagon for crappy teams who have never had a winning record in their history. For some folks to imply that a bandwagon exists is just myopic.

Runner
11-27-2007, 04:53 PM
How 'bout them Texans?

markn
11-27-2007, 04:54 PM
The ability to limit oneself to insightful contributions is usually considered a benign trait, but this apparent obsession with Post Count leads me to believe I'll be a 'better' TexansTalker if I propagate meaningless babble, enter into pointless argument and post "David Carr sucks. lolllll111!!!" several times a day.

This debate started with a sad confession from a clearly devoted fan which struck a chord with me. That a painful defeat has caused us to descend into such a squabbling morass is really quite sad, and even as a relative n00b with a shockingly low Post Count, it's not been pretty to watch.

Pardon the intrusion.

Oh,

David Carr sucks. lolllll111!!!

axman40
11-27-2007, 04:56 PM
I've said it before and I shall say it again: if you are a fan of the Texans after these first six years, you are a fan. There is no bandwagon for crappy teams who have never had a winning record in their history. For some folks to imply that a bandwagon exists is just myopic.
Hello I am looking for a new sport ,I need a team that is struggling and no fans .
Not only do I drive the Bandwagon , I am the Bandwagon!
:pirate:

IlliniJen
11-27-2007, 06:06 PM
Uhhh...I think I understand now.

You ASSUME that we know what you mean because evvvvverybody plays MMORPGS (whatever that is)...okey dokey.

When you post something, it might be a good idea to "annotate" as you mentioned. All I saw, and I all I STILL see is a bunch of guys knocking on someone and dragging the corpse around the streets of texanstalk.com.

Granted, Herv has not asked for anyone to feel sorry for him. But the guy is a fellow fan, and for a lot of you to just kick him to the curb...well, it rubs me raw to see you so blindly loyal to a team of spoiled millionaires and yet you can't be understanding and even remotely nice to a MAN who has also followed this same team that you apparently worship more than real people whom you spend time with on this board.

Out.

You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too angry. Have some Tension Tamer Tea from Celestial Seasonings...it's delish.

I guess I assumed that the "Can I have your stuff" one-liner, that's been around for about a decade now, had crept out of the geek basement and become a bit more of an internet meme, but obviously not so much.

Look, I think things are being taken to the extreme. Either you've:

1. Thrown up your hands in complete disgust and are quitting the Texans all together

or

2. Are blindly loyal to a bunch of spoiled millionaire football players.

I think that's a little too black/white for my tastes. I LOVE the Texans. I will always be a fan, but that doesn't preclude me from the following:

1. Being frustrated in the face of 6 years of losing teams.
2. Taking issue with lax management/incompetence.
3. Having CONSTRUCTIVE criticism for the players, coaches, management, etc.

There is a way to temper one's fanhood with reality. I hate myopic fans, but I also hate bandwagon jumpers. I don't think Herv is either of those. I think he's let the Texans and their woes get to him a little bit more than is healthy, because it's not FUN anymore. He can take a break from the team and try to get a little emotional distance without being labeled a "bad fan."

I think many people vent their frustrations in ways that don't appear to be tempered with reasonableness or constructive criticism. And some folks don't actually READ the reasonableness or constructive criticism. It's hard being a fan of a team that needs so much help and improvement and to point out those things without seeming like you're harping (just as long as you're not riding the "we needed to draft Vince Bush" dead horse...like we really need a RB who can't run or a QB who can't throw).

Sheesh...the internets: serious business.

IlliniJen
11-27-2007, 06:12 PM
I've said it before and I shall say it again: if you are a fan of the Texans after these first six years, you are a fan. There is no bandwagon for crappy teams who have never had a winning record in their history. For some folks to imply that a bandwagon exists is just myopic.

You obviously weren't in sports bars directly after the 2-0 start. Boy, there were finally some Texans fans about. There was at least the beginnings of a bandwagon. Peeps were fired up.

Now? Not so much. There weren't enough Texans fans this past week to deaden the loud, annoying Browns fans. BROWNS FANS?! WTF? What dead log did these guys roll out from under?

TD
11-27-2007, 06:41 PM
However, before I knew it next year was already here and the Cup was now just a memory. It's a never ending cycle. Kinda like drugs.

That's why I love my Rockets championship video. It's the perpetual roach in the ashtray. :specnatz:

Double Barrel
11-27-2007, 06:50 PM
Hello I am looking for a new sport ,I need a team that is struggling and no fans .
Not only do I drive the Bandwagon , I am the Bandwagon!
:pirate:

hehe, competitive belly-button lint collecting. There's a sport for ya' to bandwagon! :doot:

You obviously weren't in sports bars directly after the 2-0 start. Boy, there were finally some Texans fans about. There was at least the beginnings of a bandwagon. Peeps were fired up.

No, I wasn't in a sports bar (don't drink anymore), but I'd say those were probably Texans fans that finally had a team to feel good about. They came out of hiding for a week or so there. Big back-to-back wins....probably one of our top five highlights in franchise history. (damn, that's just sad to hear myself say....)

Maybe it's just me, but "bandwagon" is usually a term I reserve for teams like the Yankees, Cowboys, Steelers, Bulls, Patriots, etc. Continuous winning records and numerous championships in the history seem to be the teams that people want to jump on board, NOT the lowly expansion Texans with a rich tradition of losing and futility. Perhaps I'm just old school that way, though. idonno:

aj.
11-27-2007, 07:13 PM
Maybe it's just me, but "bandwagon" is usually a term I reserve for teams like the Yankees, Cowboys, Steelers, Bulls, Patriots, etc. Continuous winning records and numerous championships in the history seem to be the teams that people want to jump on board, NOT the lowly expansion Texans with a rich tradition of losing and futility. Perhaps I'm just old school that way, though. idonno:

If you attended games in the Dome pre-1977 you know that LYB was built on the bandwagon element. So was Glanville/Pardee's teams in the context of emergence from the dark era of the early 80's. So will the Texans first playoff era team. Many of the fans jumping on were doing it because of the excitement that was generated, not because they were a bunch of die hards in hibernation.

I know a lot of people who won't give the Texans a second look until they 'contend.' Many of them will be the younger folks that haven't had the opportunity to have a winner (read: playoff contender) in their back yard and are looking for a team to root for - whether they realize it or not.

TexansSeminole
11-27-2007, 07:20 PM
If you attended games in the Dome pre-1977 you know that LYB was built on the bandwagon element. So was Glanville/Pardee's teams in the context of emergence from the dark era of the early 80's. So will the Texans first playoff era team. Many of the fans jumping on were doing it because of the excitement that was generated, not because they were a bunch of die hards in hibernation.

I know a lot of people who won't give the Texans a second look until they 'contend.' Many of them will be the younger folks that haven't had the opportunity to have a winner (read: playoff contender) in their back yard and are looking for a team to root for - whether they realize it or not.

I really think the Texans could have a big fan base too.

aj.
11-27-2007, 07:24 PM
I really think the Texans could have a big fan base too.

They do. That wasn't my point.

"Built on" was a bad choice of words. There was and is a core foundation of diehards, but the bandwagon element is what made us stand in line for single game seats and SROs in the Dome parking lot back in the day - and that element is alive and well today.

TEXANRED
11-27-2007, 07:52 PM
And, "No," post count is not the only thing that matters.

This is being proved by the same ones I am calling out: The ones who build their post count off of cute little sarcastic comments.

My posts are usually medium-to-long in length. I have a lot to share about what I think about this team. I respond to others with my own opinions and ideas. They might not be correct, but they have some basis in constructiveness (if that's a word).

So here's the point where someone comes along and rattles off something corny, or attach a funny photo. Because, after all, we like to stay on topic with our posts, correct? :cool:

Then there are times when you need to extract the rather large stick wedged between the two fluffy pillows and realize that the thread has run its course.

We get it, you like Herv, and he is given the free pass to say he quite the Texans were as the hundreds of others who have written the same posts have been crucified, tared and feather, and ran out of the city.

But thanks for keeping us on course Cpt. Bringdown.

Oh, and thanks for thinking that I am cute.

Runner
11-27-2007, 08:08 PM
Herv said something sad
My feelings hurt. I hurt yours!
Emo forum soon.

Double Barrel
11-28-2007, 10:10 AM
If you attended games in the Dome pre-1977 you know that LYB was built on the bandwagon element. So was Glanville/Pardee's teams in the context of emergence from the dark era of the early 80's. So will the Texans first playoff era team. Many of the fans jumping on were doing it because of the excitement that was generated, not because they were a bunch of die hards in hibernation.

I know a lot of people who won't give the Texans a second look until they 'contend.' Many of them will be the younger folks that haven't had the opportunity to have a winner (read: playoff contender) in their back yard and are looking for a team to root for - whether they realize it or not.

yep, I realize that and agree. But, a 2-0 Texans is nowhere near the Luv Ya Blue or run-and-shoot Oilers, so my bandwagon example is applicable. I'd say the 2-0 fans were folks who have been rooting for the team and finally had something to hope for and be proud of. Once the team actually has a winning record and makes it to the playoffs, your example of bandwagon would be in full effect.

Until then, I maintain that a losing franchise does not have a bandwagon built just yet.

TexansSeminole
11-28-2007, 10:12 AM
Until then, I maintain that a losing franchise does not have a bandwagon built just yet.

I tend to agree with this.

powerfuldragon
11-28-2007, 10:26 AM
And, "No," post count is not the only thing that matters.

This is being proved by the same ones I am calling out: The ones who build their post count off of cute little sarcastic comments.

My posts are usually medium-to-long in length. I have a lot to share about what I think about this team. I respond to others with my own opinions and ideas. They might not be correct, but they have some basis in constructiveness (if that's a word).

So here's the point where someone comes along and rattles off something corny, or attach a funny photo. Because, after all, we like to stay on topic with our posts, correct? :cool:

GP, it's not the size of the post that matters, it's what you do with it.

maybe i post the abrupt and absurd because that's how i deal with the pains of being a fan of a team that's never had a winning record (see DB's post earlier about bandwagons and the like)... or maybe i do it in an attempt to lighten the place up. for christ's sake, this is an INTERNET message board... if you wanna poop in everyone's dessert and have every topic be a somber, formal display of points and counter-points, then fine. Do it. nobody's getting in your way.
frankly, the fact that you are complaining about it leaves me a little bewildered because one-liners aren't that tough to scroll past... why the upturned nose? are our jokes insulting your acumen in some way? what's the point of stressing so much over the internet?

om shanti om.


Herv said something sad
My feelings hurt. I hurt yours!
Emo forum soon.
Prophetic Haiku
I pray you'll be proven wrong.
emo boards = awful.

aj.
11-28-2007, 12:13 PM
Until then, I maintain that a losing franchise does not have a bandwagon built just yet.

Maybe our definition of bandwagon is different.

This franchise came into existence with a large component of fringe fans. That group (including some die hards) has been dropping by the wayside for a while now because of 'natural causes' (W-L record) and self inflicted injury (the litany of bad management decisions).

I'm assuming most of the die hards are still hanging around. I'm having a hard time believing the fringe element from the '02-'04 years is still around. I see the empty seats this year up in the corners. I see emptys and large turnover every week in the section to my immediate right (101).

I'm basing my point in part on the number of people who sat around me in 2002-04 that are no longer there, and people at work that used to own non-PSL season tickets that no longer do. Hell, the entire city of Austin is one big bandwagon.

I'm not sure what your 2-0 reference means - I must not have read that - but I have friends and neighbors who were all 'fired up' after that Carolina game that now ask me periodically how the Texans are doing because they honestly don't know.

SICLICK
11-28-2007, 12:19 PM
Hey it could be worse....we could be the Dolphins.
Texans will only get better. GO TEXANS!!!!
:texflag: :fans:

mridge01
11-28-2007, 12:24 PM
Not going forward? Maybe you are unaware of where we have been the last 6 years. Our season was DONE by now last season. We were looking at who we could and should get. The year before that our season was done before week 8. Also no pass rush on Brees...I am not sure what game you watched.

No matter how you try to slice it up, its 5-6, a record we've never seen this far into the season. People don't chalk us up as wins any more. People are overreacting and expected too much from them this year. The journey to being a good team isn't going to look pretty, it isn't going to always look good. But if you see your record go up DESPITE your schedule, it usually means the team improved. Beating teams you should beat and losing to teams you should does not make you a crappy team, it makes you a mediocre team. A crappy team is looking at the NFL draft right now, things could be MUCH worse than they are now.

I'm not disagreeing with you, meerly pointing out why a fan would become impatient. I never said the Texans were crappy, just that they had no identity. Sometimes they play good enough to beat bad teams, play bad enough to lose to good teams, and have the occasional WTF was that game (i.e., vs. Falcons and Chargers).
By the way, do you have video of the "consistent pass rush" plays vs. the Saints you could post, because I didn't see it at all.

Double Barrel
11-28-2007, 12:27 PM
Maybe our definition of bandwagon is different.

This franchise came into existence with a large component of fringe fans. That group (including some die hards) has been dropping by the wayside for a while now because of 'natural causes' (W-L record) and self inflicted injury (the litany of bad management decisions).

I'm assuming most of the die hards are still hanging around. I'm having a hard time believing the fringe element from the '02-'04 years is still around. I see the empty seats this year up in the corners. I see emptys and large turnover every week in the section to my immediate right (101).

I'm basing my point in part on the number of people who sat around me in 2002-04 that are no longer there, and people at work that used to own non-PSL season tickets that no longer do. Hell, the entire city of Austin is one big bandwagon.

I'm not sure what your 2-0 reference means - I must not have read that - but I have friends and neighbors who were all 'fired up' after that Carolina game that now ask me periodically how the Texans are doing because they honestly don't know.

yeah, good points. I can see the definition from either perspective. Myself, I'd consider those types of Texans fans to be more casual, which in and of itself is probably a form of bandwagon.

Then there are the fans that don't watch any football and might not even own a single piece of Texans merchandise. These are the typical bandwagon fans in my mind, simply because the Houston Texans are not even on their radar until a worthy product is presented to them.

Perhaps it's just a degree thing, not quite as black and white because of different points of view. But I still find it rather amusing that a perpetual losing team like ours could even have a bandwagon. I've just never seen anyone inclined to suddenly start rooting for losers. Did the Saints ever have a bandwagon during their first 20 years without a winning record? :um:

aj.
11-28-2007, 12:33 PM
But I still find it rather amusing that a perpetual losing team like ours could even have a bandwagon.

We have one - it's just empty now ... unlike September 9, 2002 when you couldn't jump on because it was full. They'll be back some day.

ActualTexan
11-28-2007, 12:52 PM
Hell, the entire city of Austin is one big bandwagon.


Why does everyone keep saying this about Austin. At the core, Austin isn't a bit damn different than anywhere else. When the Texans look competitive, more people talk, watch, discuss, and think about the Texans. When they loose repeatedly, the opposite happens. Take a look in Reliant, and the exact same damn thing takes place IN Houston. When the Texan build a competitive tradition, that will change. End of story.

Austin fans have the Longhorns to concern themselves with. If UT was in Houston or Dallas (or Amarillo for that matter) and had a 100 year-old winning tradition, people in those cities would act just as they do in Austin. End of story.

Because of a long history of great football, Austin has a large Cowboy fanbase. Big deal. Name a city in Texas that doesn't. End of story.

I have friends that are Steelers fans, Vikings fans, Auburn fans, USC fans, etc, etc, etc. I have never felt the need to think that they suck (or disparage them in any way) - which is the most common theme on a HUGE number of posts on this board outside of straight Xs and Os.

SOME Texans fans have a big chip and a red-headed step-child mentality that spills over the Xs and Os and goes into slapping anyone that doesn't drink the koolaide - which is why I chimed in on this thread to begin with.

Ah well...sports trash talk. What an improvement on the game. I'd rather just have some good football.

(You can have the soapbox back now)

hookinreds
11-28-2007, 01:13 PM
Hell, the entire city of Austin is one big bandwagon.

:gun:

brickman
11-28-2007, 01:41 PM
I know where you are coming from. I had been a NY Jet fan for 30+ years and got fed up with them and jumped ship earlier this year. I decided to root for the Texans as my team because they are a young, up and coming team and I didn't want to pick a great team like the Patriots and be a bandwagon fan. As I've watched them this year, the Texans have the base for a very good team that just needs help in a few spots (o-line, rb and db). I really believe that they are going to be a force to be reckoned with in a year or two. You've gone through the bad times, hang around to enjoy the good times. It should be fun!!!!! Keep the faith..... a lot of injuries this year have derailed them but they will bounce back. Just my :twocents:
:texflag:

HoustonFrog
11-28-2007, 01:49 PM
Why does everyone keep saying this about Austin. At the core, Austin isn't a bit damn different than anywhere else. When the Texans look competitive, more people talk, watch, discuss, and think about the Texans. When they loose repeatedly, the opposite happens. Take a look in Reliant, and the exact same damn thing takes place IN Houston. When the Texan build a competitive tradition, that will change. End of story.

Austin fans have the Longhorns to concern themselves with. If UT was in Houston or Dallas (or Amarillo for that matter) and had a 100 year-old winning tradition, people in those cities would act just as they do in Austin. End of story.

Because of a long history of great football, Austin has a large Cowboy fanbase. Big deal. Name a city in Texas that doesn't. End of story.

I have friends that are Steelers fans, Vikings fans, Auburn fans, USC fans, etc, etc, etc. I have never felt the need to think that they suck (or disparage them in any way) - which is the most common theme on a HUGE number of posts on this board outside of straight Xs and Os.

SOME Texans fans have a big chip and a red-headed step-child mentality that spills over the Xs and Os and goes into slapping anyone that doesn't drink the koolaide - which is why I chimed in on this thread to begin with.

Ah well...sports trash talk. What an improvement on the game. I'd rather just have some good football.

(You can have the soapbox back now)

I know where you are coming from in a way. I've detailed it too many times to count on here but I grew up in Cowboy country in Ft. Worth. I was...5-7 when I started getting engrossed in sports and that was mid to late 70s when the Cowboys/Steelers thing was going and it was a heyday. I've been a hardcore fan, although a more mature one recently, ever since. The thing was though, people up there didn't have any hatred towards Houston..at least that I ever saw. My oldest bro went to UT and was there for Earl. I was taken in to since you idolize your older sibs. So Earl in Houston was fun for me too. When I came here in 1993 I rooted for local teams even though my home teams were Dallas teams. Since the Texans came I was pretty casual. I joined these sites a couple of years back to discuss how I thought Carr was ruining the team and that it was hard to go full on board with them with him around. I'm still here. I cheer for them to win now and try to be supportive. I'm still upset more when the Boys lose....people here know that...but I'm coming around to my team here and have been for the last couple of years. I want to support the team. I'll put it this way, I'm not on any Cowboy boards. So I see the chip on the shoulder thing and it is understandable but frustrating coming from my perspective. But I like hearing the rants and I love the talk here and I see the diehards and want the best from the organization.

swtbound07
11-28-2007, 02:22 PM
I don't come here much anymore. There was a time when i thought i'd always come to these boards and hangout after the game. This place has changed. We can't give up a field goal without somebody coming on this board to start a thread calling for somebodies job. We are in the midst of one of our best seasons EVER and some of you can't enjoy that. We have a legitimate chance to win every time we take the field. When has that ever been true. This is a forum of Chaos and Snark, of Anger and Insult, and of Arguements long rehashed. I don't come here much anymore. In fact, the only reason I haven't just deleted this place from my bookmarks is that some of my best friends are here, and have shady cell phone plans. Double Barrell is a great guy, and made me and my girlfriend feel more then welcome at his tailgate. He's what makes this board good. PD is an awesome guy when you get to know him, and is a blast to go to a Chiefs game with. Jerek is a genuine, caring, thoughtfull person who I consider myself lucky to be friends with. I could go on and on, listing the people who i really care about on this board...Vinny, Elle, Diego, Bob and Will, Dream. These are my friends. KT up in austin, helping me out with parking....just genuinely good people. My point is, if your coming to this board to complain and argue and whine, your missing out on the chance to know some really good people. Herv is an exceptionally good guy. Instead of coming up with a snap response, if you haven't, then take the time to really talk to herv and get to know him. /2 cents

Brando
11-28-2007, 02:37 PM
I don't come here much anymore. There was a time when i thought i'd always come to these boards and hangout after the game. This place has changed. We can't give up a field goal without somebody coming on this board to start a thread calling for somebodies job. We are in the midst of one of our best seasons EVER and some of you can't enjoy that. We have a legitimate chance to win every time we take the field. When has that ever been true. This is a forum of Chaos and Snark, of Anger and Insult, and of Arguements long rehashed. I don't come here much anymore. In fact, the only reason I haven't just deleted this place from my bookmarks is that some of my best friends are here, and have shady cell phone plans. Double Barrell is a great guy, and made me and my girlfriend feel more then welcome at his tailgate. He's what makes this board good. PD is an awesome guy when you get to know him, and is a blast to go to a Chiefs game with. Jerek is a genuine, caring, thoughtfull person who I consider myself lucky to be friends with. I could go on and on, listing the people who i really care about on this board...Vinny, Elle, Diego, Bob and Will, Dream. These are my friends. KT up in austin, helping me out with parking....just genuinely good people. My point is, if your coming to this board to complain and argue and whine, your missing out on the chance to know some really good people. Herv is an exceptionally good guy. Instead of coming up with a snap response, if you haven't, then take the time to really talk to herv and get to know him. /2 cents


Herv is a diehard and a good guy. He was venting like I do in some game threads which I vowed to stay out off because I vent more than ever. I've been here through the beginning, maybe not here at TexansTalk but the official board. Numerous name changes(ThirdEyeBC32 and God of Wine). I have cancelled my account a couple of times because I hated reading all the negativity and I went on "vacation" so to speak. He has been here from the beginning and he deserves to be able to vent here. I enjoy reading his post and he will be missed here if he decides to be done with this.

ActualTexan
11-28-2007, 02:48 PM
Hell, the entire city of Austin is one big bandwagon.

Like I said, I haven't felt the need to disparage other fans, you have repeatedly shown that you do...just as you did to Herv.

Whatever.

HoustonFrog
11-28-2007, 03:02 PM
I don't come here much anymore. There was a time when i thought i'd always come to these boards and hangout after the game. This place has changed. We can't give up a field goal without somebody coming on this board to start a thread calling for somebodies job. We are in the midst of one of our best seasons EVER and some of you can't enjoy that. We have a legitimate chance to win every time we take the field. When has that ever been true. This is a forum of Chaos and Snark, of Anger and Insult, and of Arguements long rehashed. I don't come here much anymore. In fact, the only reason I haven't just deleted this place from my bookmarks is that some of my best friends are here, and have shady cell phone plans. Double Barrell is a great guy, and made me and my girlfriend feel more then welcome at his tailgate. He's what makes this board good. PD is an awesome guy when you get to know him, and is a blast to go to a Chiefs game with. Jerek is a genuine, caring, thoughtfull person who I consider myself lucky to be friends with. I could go on and on, listing the people who i really care about on this board...Vinny, Elle, Diego, Bob and Will, Dream. These are my friends. KT up in austin, helping me out with parking....just genuinely good people. My point is, if your coming to this board to complain and argue and whine, your missing out on the chance to know some really good people. Herv is an exceptionally good guy. Instead of coming up with a snap response, if you haven't, then take the time to really talk to herv and get to know him. /2 cents

Rep. Good words

Chance_C
11-28-2007, 03:25 PM
I don't come here much anymore. There was a time when i thought i'd always come to these boards and hangout after the game. This place has changed. We can't give up a field goal without somebody coming on this board to start a thread calling for somebodies job. We are in the midst of one of our best seasons EVER and some of you can't enjoy that. We have a legitimate chance to win every time we take the field. When has that ever been true. This is a forum of Chaos and Snark, of Anger and Insult, and of Arguements long rehashed. I don't come here much anymore. In fact, the only reason I haven't just deleted this place from my bookmarks is that some of my best friends are here, and have shady cell phone plans. Double Barrell is a great guy, and made me and my girlfriend feel more then welcome at his tailgate. He's what makes this board good. PD is an awesome guy when you get to know him, and is a blast to go to a Chiefs game with. Jerek is a genuine, caring, thoughtfull person who I consider myself lucky to be friends with. I could go on and on, listing the people who i really care about on this board...Vinny, Elle, Diego, Bob and Will, Dream. These are my friends. KT up in austin, helping me out with parking....just genuinely good people. My point is, if your coming to this board to complain and argue and whine, your missing out on the chance to know some really good people. Herv is an exceptionally good guy. Instead of coming up with a snap response, if you haven't, then take the time to really talk to herv and get to know him. /2 cents

Excellent post....I'm with everyone here on the respect for Herv. He's been here from day one. But the bottom line is if he wanted to totally quit the team, what difference does it make to anyone? Sorry to see you go Herv, I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years. I've met lots of people from these boards, and I was hoping to meet you someday.

hollywood_texan
11-28-2007, 04:21 PM
My definition of a bandwagon fan is a person that:

A: Never has lived in the city for the team they are rooting for,
B: Probably never been to the stadium or even seen an away game in person with repsect to the team in question, and
C: The team in question has a long history of winning championships or very strong showings every year.

If anything, it seems like most people on this board live in Houston or surrouding areas.

Instead of calling someone that lives in Houston a bandwagon fan, probably should call them a fair weather fan.

Just my perspective for what it's worth. It's really a matter of a discussion between curtains or drapes.

Bottom line, I really don't see an issue with someone venting about the Texans or even deciding to not follow the Texans.

Sometimes I think about all the cash in season tickets, plane flights to games, hotel rooms, and gear I have spent on the Texans, and it just seems pointless.

That is why I have come to the agreeement with myselft that as long as Reliant is a great stadium and tailgating is allowed before the games, I will continue to pay for season tickets and go to games (both home and away).

But, I am really putting a stop to buying any gear and having any expectations of results on the field.

I was optimistic to this season, but it really just seems to be another shade of gray with Kubiak. Schaub is a nice edition, but I just don't get the sense that the Texans even have an identity yet. It just amazes me AJ was a non-factor against Cleveland because they didn't even gameplan to get him in the game from what I can tell.

We'll know, at the latest, by mid-way of next season if the Kubiak tenure is going to amount to anything.

As for Herv, I hear what he is saying, thought has crossed my mind a few times. The way I deal with it is that I have zero expectations of the coaching staff and players as I said before.

Maybe instead of calling Herv something, maybe you should consider that he is actually pondering a very smart decision we shoud all think about...

hookinreds
11-28-2007, 05:49 PM
Like I said, I haven't felt the need to disparage other fans, you have repeatedly shown that you do...just as you did to Herv.

Whatever.

Round Rock is a city located in the U.S. state of Texas within Williamson County of the Austin-Round Rock metropolitan area. As of the 2000 U.S. Census, the city had a total population of 61,136 (though the 2005 census estimate placed the population at 86,316 ).

See Also: North Austin

I was putting a bullet in my head for aj's comment about Austin being one big bandwagon.

imatexan
11-28-2007, 06:29 PM
As far as the post about Reliant having empty seats this year...that is not true. Thier are of course always going to be some from the no shows but overall the attendance has been great soo far this year.

TEXANRED
11-28-2007, 08:12 PM
I don't come here much anymore. There was a time when i thought i'd always come to these boards and hangout after the game. This place has changed. We can't give up a field goal without somebody coming on this board to start a thread calling for somebodies job. We are in the midst of one of our best seasons EVER and some of you can't enjoy that. We have a legitimate chance to win every time we take the field. When has that ever been true. This is a forum of Chaos and Snark, of Anger and Insult, and of Arguements long rehashed.

Thats b/c a lot of us, myself included, thought this was going to be the year where we come out of the dark.

Joe Texan
11-29-2007, 10:33 AM
don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

A true fan stands behind his team through any season. We have issues but We have a football team. LA does not have the same privilidge. I get mad at some of the dumb moves we make but that is football. Right now Kubes is running the team, It is his first chance and he is 2 years into it. He has pretty much dropped everybody that needed dropping and added a body that is somewhat better if not all better. We cannot build a team in 1 year which is what the Coaching staff had to do thanks to Casserly and Capers. I personally will wait till Hell freezes over if thats how long it takes and I will still be standing in the Bull Pen as the players walk off the feild.

hadaad
11-29-2007, 11:02 AM
I understand about the frustration that expectations, realistic or otherwise, can put on a fan. I cheer for the Texans and when they lose, particularly the way they did on Sunday, I get frustrated. But I don't let myself buy into this expectation, whether it's of the playoffs, of a certain record or even of victory against a particular team.

I love the Texans. I was very proud of them when they got rid of Carr, not because I hated Carr but because it was a change that showed we are no longer an expansion franchise. Yes, we're going to have disappointing showings where we wonder if anything will ever be right again. But we're also going to have proud moments like last Christmas.

Hey, at least we're not the Detroit Lions.

b0ng
11-29-2007, 11:49 AM
Thats b/c a lot of us, myself included, thought this was going to be the year where we come out of the dark.

I'm pretty sure this year we've gotten more positive press than we have any other year really. I think that getting upset because the Texans aren't in the playoffs every year is just a little silly. I'll be upset when we go to playoffs one year and then don't repeat the performance next year.

If you don't want to watch the Texans or anything because of shoddy performances this year that's fine, and I can understand that now that I've thought about it. But really to me, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want those adrenaline rushes on Sundays, win or lose. Watching the Texans on Sundays is fun. I get together with my family and we enjoy the game by griping about the officiating, talking about who's doing good and who's not, and all that. I wouldn't give that up for the world.

Chance_C
11-29-2007, 01:38 PM
don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.


You better hope GP doesn't see that "one liner"....:backsout:

GP
11-30-2007, 11:28 AM
You better hope GP doesn't see that "one liner"....:backsout:

I did see it, and he can meet me at the truck stop to sort it out with a good fist fight.

Just kidding.

Honestly, I have had posters on the boards (back whenit all began at houstontexans.com) do that sort of thing--Tell me to meet them somewhere for a fight. Seriously.

At least I don't tell anybody to leave. I got that going for me, which is nice...

White Runningback
12-02-2007, 02:16 PM
I'm about done with talking people off of the ledge.

Hell. If you're going to jump, then Jump! Quit threatening and do it!

Stop then, cap'n Save-a-Ho. no one asked to be dissuaded. Some of you are too dim to realize the ship is sinking before it is evidenced by why some of you rode Carr's jock until his was no longer a Texan.

Won't be long before he's out of the league selling insurance.

I love how doubting your team = not being a fan. F_cking laughable.

cuppacoffee
12-02-2007, 07:58 PM
I'm pretty sure this year we've gotten more positive press than we have any other year really. I think that getting upset because the Texans aren't in the playoffs every year is just a little silly. I'll be upset when we go to playoffs one year and then don't repeat the performance next year.

If you don't want to watch the Texans or anything because of shoddy performances this year that's fine, and I can understand that now that I've thought about it. But really to me, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want those adrenaline rushes on Sundays, win or lose. Watching the Texans on Sundays is fun. I get together with my family and we enjoy the game by griping about the officiating, talking about who's doing good and who's not, and all that. I wouldn't give that up for the world.


Guilty!

Gotta fess up here. I attended the Kansas City game and was pretty excited at the win. Since then...well...not so much of an accomplishment after all.

Watched the Carolina game...excited again at the win ...then again not so much of an accomplishment.

Watched the debacle against the Falcons. Stomach started churning.

Watched the heroic efforts of our field goal kicker beat the Dolphins. Yeah...that was really a reason to get excited. :sarcasm: That did it for me.

So no knee jerk reaction here.

Haven't watched a game since. I still tune in to catch the scores, hoping to be excited about a win ( adrenaline rushes ? ) maybe so, but not very often.

I watch Bob Allen and Spencer Tillman to catch the highlights and hear the reasons we lost (majority of the time).

When I have sat in my recliner and watched Texan games the last few years, I am usually in a very sour mood the rest of the day. Just not the way I want to spend Sundays around my family anymore.

I can't enjoy it, and my spouse finds a way to make me regret it...:whip:

If anyone asks' me, I still claim the Texans as my favorite pro team and listen to the jeers.

I still hate the Titans and Cowboys.

I still enjoy coming to these boards and reading all the comments and opinions.

Is it Kubiak? Mr McNair ? Our OC? Our DC? Our players? idonno:

Am I a bandwagon fan? I don't know...haven't really seen a bandwagon around here to jump on or off of..

A bad fan? Again..I don't know.

Not asking for opinions here. Although I am sure I will hear a few.:D

I may not know about 'schemes', and x's and o's, but I do know good football when I see it...and I am not seeing it from the Texans.

The Texans do not have to win for me to enjoy watching the games, of course it would help.

Like I said in 2004, maybe next year..:texflag:

:coffee:

Texan Asylum
12-02-2007, 09:47 PM
I don't recall asking anyone to talk me off of a ledge and for the record Double Barrell understood exactly what I meant. I don't care what happens in the win/loss column anymore this year. I can't afford to anymore this year. That's me. Your mileage may vary.

I don't know how "you" (speaking collectively to everyone who reads this) take your football. I don't know if you overreact or barely pay attention. I don't know if you're a face painter or somebody who sits through the games sipping your red wine and talking to a client. What's more I don't really care unless you want to post about it.

I get sick to my stomach when my team loses. I get so angry when the Texans do something stupid that my chest shrinks about three sizes and I get light headed and have to close my eyes and think about breathing for a while. I'm something of a hypertension poster child and I've got a cardiolagist who thinks that if we can ever find a way to turn cholesteral into gasoline then I'm going to single handedly put the middle-east out of business. I'm a 42 year old man from a line of men where exactly 1 person has made it past 49 years old without a heart attack in the past three generations. I've got an expiration date on me like a gallon of milk.

And I love watching my hometown team (Houston) play football. I take it too seriously and I know it. I let it get to me when I shouldn't and I know it.

I'm taking a break for a while. I don't want to watch any more of this for a while. I'm tired of it and no longer find it entertaining. It's entertainment after all not a damned religon.

Football and particularly NFL football is entertainment. It's a spectator sport that's played because people enjoy watching it and are willing to pay for the privilege to do so. Television shows are also entertainment as are movies and CD's. How long would you continue to watch a TV show that you were highly anticipating but that never panned out and stayed just as bad as it started? How many movies in a series would you pay to see if the first one was good and every one of the sequels sucked? Take your favorite music artist and tell me how many crappy CD's he\she\they have to put out before you decide to pass on the next one?

I'm stepping back and getting myself some perspective before I blow out an "o" ring or something. You guys carry on the good fight and have fun doing it. I'll come back next year and anyone who wants to give me crap for stepping off the bandwagon can have at it. I could not care less. When a "bandwagon" stays stuck in the mud for 6 years and never moves forward without slipping back into the ruts then I reserve the right to step off for a bit and stretch my friggin legs.

Well said Herv...I've been stretching my legs since Atlanta. :cool:

Life has been alot less stessful in the "entertainment" department since.

ActualTexan
12-02-2007, 09:55 PM
Guilty!

Gotta fess up here...



nice post

Speedy
12-03-2007, 12:14 AM
Well, today is the first time all year that I just had a ho-hum attitude about the game. Might have had to do with the way they just look so unprepared to play a football game, or the way their game plan looked like they just pulled it out of an old pair of jeans that just came out of the dryer. I have picture-in-picture and for the first time I had some of the Texans game in the little box while Seattle/Philly got the big screen.

The anger seems to be gone now that I think I've come to the realization that this isn't the year, not even for .500, and the apathy has set in. Now I just shake my head and laugh when the Texans find, not even another way, but the same ways over and over to lose a football game.

Blah!!!

And I'll be there this Sunday, Lord willing, starting with getting in line at a little after 7:00 am for my 58th consecutive game. That isn't even about the Texans any more. That's about me and my streak.

beerlover
12-03-2007, 12:25 AM
vent, vent, vent, blah, blah, blah same old song & dance :specnatz:

cuppacoffee
12-03-2007, 10:11 AM
vent, vent, vent, blah, blah, blah same old song & dance :specnatz:


Agreed

Kind of summarizes Kubiaks' and the players description of why we lost... again...and again...and again.

Come on BL...each week it's 'Kubiaks fault' per Kubiak.

It is the 'players fault' per whichever player is being interviewed.

"I gotta do a better job of coaching."... Well do it then.

"I gotta give 110% to take up the slack."... You should have been giving it your all from the get-go.

It just isn't fun to watch anymore. At least not for me.

To me "venting" is sitting in my recliner and screaming at the tv as if someone in there can hear me. It's being upset that I have wasted another three hours of my life being miserable.

Yes..I love the game...I am just as much a Texan fan as your are, maybe, but personally there is a limit to how much ineptitude I can tolerate.

Apparently you are a glutton for punishment... :D.. :jk:

You are a good fan though..so hang in there...

ps Hope your QB gets some Heisman recognition.


:coffee:

Double Barrel
12-03-2007, 10:45 AM
Having no expectations for this team seems to be the key to me having a good rest-of-the-day after they lay yet another losing egg.

When folks ask me, "what happened to your Texans", I don't even know what to say or where to start. It's been the same problems for six seasons straight - bad coaching, poor execution, no protection, no consistent third down stops or conversions, yada yada yada - and I just don't have the brain power to truly know where it all starts and stops. Our losing ways are starting to become institutionalized, ingrained into the fabric of this franchise, so I don't have much hope until they give me a reason to hope.

I'll always be a Texans fan, although less enthusiastic about it right now than I used to be.

powerfuldragon
12-03-2007, 10:48 AM
good thing mtv had a beauty and the geek marathon on sunday.

santo
12-03-2007, 10:58 AM
good think mtv had a beauty and the geek marathon on sunday.


Man, that's what I get for not having cable.

dskillz
12-03-2007, 11:18 AM
Having no expectations for this team seems to be the key to me having a good rest-of-the-day after they lay yet another losing egg.

When folks ask me, "what happened to your Texans", I don't even know what to say or where to start. It's been the same problems for six seasons straight - bad coaching, poor execution, no protection, no consistent third down stops or conversions, yada yada yada - and I just don't have the brain power to truly know where it all starts and stops. Our losing ways are starting to become institutionalized, ingrained into the fabric of this franchise, so I don't have much hope until they give me a reason to hope.

I'll always be a Texans fan, although less enthusiastic about it right now than I used to be.

Exactly. That is where I am at right now as well. Can't get too excited about it when t hey win, can't get too down when they lose. But it kind of takes the fun out of being a fan, right?

I do see friends that get all upset with every sack and INT. They are about to punch a hole in the wall if the other team scores. That is fun? Is that relaxing? The biggest question for me is if I will continue buying season tickets. I have a new house to pay for in 2008, and while season tickets won't break my budget, the money could be spent in other areas for sure.