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Yankee_In_TX
11-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Seriously. If he was playing Madden, he would pick the same defensive play 40 times, then change it, get a sack, then go back to the first play the entire rest of the game.

adam
11-25-2007, 07:18 PM
He is pretty bad, a change would be welcome.

prostock101
11-25-2007, 07:20 PM
Gets my vote. His scheme's really suck.

Yankee_In_TX
11-25-2007, 07:20 PM
Gets my vote. His scheme's really suck.

He has schemes?

TheIronDuke
11-25-2007, 07:22 PM
Maybe Sherman will take him to A&M with him?

tulexan
11-25-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't understand, we blitz once and get a sack and then never blitz again.

alphajoker
11-25-2007, 07:32 PM
I don't understand, we blitz once and get a sack and then never blitz again.

I don't know if I would constitute Mario's sack as a blitz. He was pretty much left unblocked.

Yankee_In_TX
11-25-2007, 07:33 PM
I don't understand, we blitz once and get a sack and then never blitz again.

Wait for it, wait for it......... Wait for it...... (the quote that either (i) we blitzed 31 times or (ii) we don't blitz because we get burned when we do)

Yankee_In_TX
11-25-2007, 07:33 PM
I don't know if I would constitute Mario's sack as a blitz. He was pretty much left unblocked.

Wasn't it due to Demeco coming up to the line and taking Mario's man?

tulexan
11-25-2007, 07:34 PM
No, but I believe DeMeco blitzed and Joe Thomas picked him up.

Allstar
11-25-2007, 07:39 PM
Isn't it Richard Smith??

ObsiWan
11-25-2007, 07:40 PM
Seriously. If he was playing Madden, he would pick the same defensive play 40 times, then change it, get a sack, then go back to the first play the entire rest of the game.

Hold up dawg!! Rick Smith is our GM!!
You mean fire RICHARD Smith.
don't get it twisted

And the fact that 10 posts got submitted before anyone corrected that glaring error kinda irritates me.

J-Russ
11-25-2007, 07:41 PM
Been on the bandwagon since the end of last year.

Yankee_In_TX
11-25-2007, 07:42 PM
Hold up dawg!! Rick Smith is our GM!!
You mean fire RICHARD Smith.
don't get it twisted

LOL, so edited. Too much studying. I did put "DC" in the title at least.

*apparently that does not change the external thread title*

bckey
11-25-2007, 09:27 PM
Never wanted him. Adios!

HJam72
11-25-2007, 10:11 PM
I don't think firing Rick Smith will make our D better. :)

Firing Richard Smith, on the other hand, could make our D better, our O better, our paraphanelia sell better, our uniforms look better, and our cheerleaders hotter. I think it might even make global warming go away.

Leahmic223
11-25-2007, 10:37 PM
I don't understand, we blitz once and get a sack and then never blitz again.

How about when we blitzed the falcons all game long only to get burned on short passes all game long...

Yeah I'm hoping some staff changes are made.

alphajoker
11-26-2007, 03:58 PM
Wasn't it due to Demeco coming up to the line and taking Mario's man?

No, but I believe DeMeco blitzed and Joe Thomas picked him up.

I watched the game again, and yes, Williams definitely owes his sack to Ryans. His blitz forced Thomas to leave Williams untouched.

Double Barrel
11-26-2007, 04:08 PM
I was hoping they'd let Richard Smith go last off-season, but then there were those stats that everyone kept saying indicates his D was getting better.

TEXANS84
11-26-2007, 04:09 PM
It's pretty bad when an opposing player (Winslow) calls your defense "vanilla" before you play.

YoungTexanFan
11-26-2007, 04:38 PM
I think this calls for the pink soap again. We seem to have a general opinion of what we want done to him, at least football wise, so I feel we should break out the pink soap again.

Any others with me on this thought?

Texans_Chick
11-26-2007, 04:52 PM
I was hoping they'd let Richard Smith go last off-season, but then there were those stats that everyone kept saying indicates his D was getting better.

The defense was so awful the first three games, like historically awful, that it could only get better.

By the end of the season, the Texans were, as a general rule playing worse competition. The Colts were good, but the Texans barely slowed them down--it was the Dayne Train that kept them off the field.

I do not want Richard Smith as the defensive coordinator next year. Nor would I like Frank Bush just to be promoted. I want the Texans to find someone who is a defensive specialist with a track record of success running a defense and pay them big money. Who are the options out there?

If you have an offensive minded head coach, you need a stud DC to give the job to so you don't have to think about it.

I recognize that the Texans offense has been doing no favors to the defense by turning the ball over. But at the same time, the defensive scheme is like my husband going to Baskin-Robbins. He always orders vanilla with nothing on it, even though there's tons of flavors. That's just wrong.

Leahmic223
11-26-2007, 04:57 PM
I remember that one time...we rush more than 4 guys...Mario got a sack...and we never blitzed again....

brakos82
11-26-2007, 06:54 PM
I don't think firing Rick Smith will make our D better. :)

Firing Richard Smith, on the other hand, could make our D better, our O better, our paraphanelia sell better, our uniforms look better, and our cheerleaders hotter. I think it might even make global warming go away.
Did you kill your kids? :bat:

DerekLee1
11-26-2007, 07:05 PM
How about when we blitzed the falcons all game long only to get burned on short passes all game long...

Yeah I'm hoping some staff changes are made.

wait...we blitzed the Falcons? I don't remember any pressure on Harrington. ? Now what the Eagles were doing to the Pats last night - THAT was blitzing.

GP
11-26-2007, 11:25 PM
Would have been a lot easier to never hire the guy in the first place.

Hundreds of quality defensive coordinators out there, and Richard Smith was the only guy we could hire?

BIG MONEY can net you a top-notch d-coordinator. I saw the hiring of Richard Smith for exactly what it was, and still is today: Penny-pinching by McNair.

There's no cap on coaching salaries. You can spend a billion dollars if you want to.

LOL. I can't wait to see how this offseason goes. We can get all the high-profile free agent players we can get our hands on, and it won't matter if we have poor coaching.

Texans_Chick
11-27-2007, 09:12 AM
Would have been a lot easier to never hire the guy in the first place.

Hundreds of quality defensive coordinators out there, and Richard Smith was the only guy we could hire?

BIG MONEY can net you a top-notch d-coordinator. I saw the hiring of Richard Smith for exactly what it was, and still is today: Penny-pinching by McNair.

There's no cap on coaching salaries. You can spend a billion dollars if you want to.

LOL. I can't wait to see how this offseason goes. We can get all the high-profile free agent players we can get our hands on, and it won't matter if we have poor coaching.


Who was better at the time?

Kubiak had sort of a late start hiring staff because of Denver being in the playoffs that year.

As I recall, there weren't any candidates out there at the time that made me say, "dang, I wish we would have got that guy."

dalemurphy
11-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Would have been a lot easier to never hire the guy in the first place.

Hundreds of quality defensive coordinators out there, and Richard Smith was the only guy we could hire?

BIG MONEY can net you a top-notch d-coordinator. I saw the hiring of Richard Smith for exactly what it was, and still is today: Penny-pinching by McNair.

There's no cap on coaching salaries. You can spend a billion dollars if you want to.

LOL. I can't wait to see how this offseason goes. We can get all the high-profile free agent players we can get our hands on, and it won't matter if we have poor coaching.

There's plenty to criticize regarding the Texan organization and Bob McNair. However, calling him a penny-pincher shows that you have no concern for the truth- either as a result of enormous ignorance or a simple lack of integrity.

Bob McNair put up $700 million to build a great stadium, HOPING the NFL would grant Houston a franchise over L.A.

Furthermore, what players have we lost because we wouldn't pay them? We've certainly overpaid a number of marginal players. I've never seen any indication that management has been handcuffed by any economic issue other than the salary cap. If anything, we've mismanaged the cap. We were certainly hampered this offseason by cap room- while that does indicate a level of incompetence, certainly it doesn't indicate frugality.

Brandon420tx
11-27-2007, 10:21 AM
It's pretty bad when an opposing player (Winslow) calls your defense "vanilla" before you play.

Especially when the defensive co-ordinator gets a chance to do something about it but still plays vanilla with double scoops.

Mr. White
11-27-2007, 10:56 AM
Shoulda just hired Jim Bates when they had the chance. Maybe his Packer has-beens would have been better than Sherman's.

bigbrewster2000
11-27-2007, 11:04 AM
Would have been a lot easier to never hire the guy in the first place.

Hundreds of quality defensive coordinators out there, and Richard Smith was the only guy we could hire?

BIG MONEY can net you a top-notch d-coordinator. I saw the hiring of Richard Smith for exactly what it was, and still is today: Penny-pinching by McNair.

There's no cap on coaching salaries. You can spend a billion dollars if you want to.

LOL. I can't wait to see how this offseason goes. We can get all the high-profile free agent players we can get our hands on, and it won't matter if we have poor coaching.

There's plenty to criticize regarding the Texan organization and Bob McNair. However, calling him a penny-pincher shows that you have no concern for the truth- either as a result of enormous ignorance or a simple lack of integrity.

Bob McNair put up $700 million to build a great stadium, HOPING the NFL would grant Houston a franchise over L.A.

Furthermore, what players have we lost because we wouldn't pay them? We've certainly overpaid a number of marginal players. I've never seen any indication that management has been handcuffed by any economic issue other than the salary cap. If anything, we've mismanaged the cap. We were certainly hampered this offseason by cap room- while that does indicate a level of incompetence, certainly it doesn't indicate frugality.
He was complaining about the exact same thing in another thread. And he has never really given another option as a DC that would have been better at the time and has not given a reason as to why Mcnair is a penny pincher except that we supposedly don't pay coaches. I don't know how he would actually know either way how much a coach is getting paid. I don't think it was publicized what any of our coordinators were being paid.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 11:48 AM
There's plenty to criticize regarding the Texan organization and Bob McNair. However, calling him a penny-pincher shows that you have no concern for the truth- either as a result of enormous ignorance or a simple lack of integrity.

Bob McNair put up $700 million to build a great stadium, HOPING the NFL would grant Houston a franchise over L.A.

Furthermore, what players have we lost because we wouldn't pay them? We've certainly overpaid a number of marginal players. I've never seen any indication that management has been handcuffed by any economic issue other than the salary cap. If anything, we've mismanaged the cap. We were certainly hampered this offseason by cap room- while that does indicate a level of incompetence, certainly it doesn't indicate frugality.


McNair didn't spend $700 million until AFTER Houston was granted team.

We have lost Steve Foley, Aaron Glenn, and Jamie Sharper because McNair/Casserley didn't want to pay them. We also drafted Mario partly because Bob didn't want a holdout with Bush (penny pinching basically).

We have failed to attain any top Free Agents due to him penny pinching but resigned losers like David Carr to max extensions.

We probably have the cheapest coaching staff in the NFL behind Buffalo. No one is making top dollar and it shows on the field.

McNair spent a lot of money to get the team here, of that there is no question. But he has done little to help the team since then. He needs to open up the wallet and hire some top coaching (INCLUDING HEAD COACH) if he wants this franchise to turn the corner. Both our coordinators were pretty bad and our head coach is basically a glorified OC. A good OC but not a good Head Coach. He looks completely overwhelmed and has since Day One. All I need to know is that Gary thought Carr could succeed. That alone shows that Gary doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground.

Hire Cowher as HC
Hire LeBeau as DC
Sign Faneca as FA
Bring Joey Porter over from Miami for $$ and to reunite with Cowher/LeBeau
Draft a RB

if we do those things, we will be in the playoffs next year without a doubt...but we won't. Gary is here for at least 2 more years, so prepare for more suckitude.

Goldensilence
11-27-2007, 12:32 PM
There are a few guys we should have on speed dial at the end of the year.

1. Ron Rivera
2. Marvin Lewis - Cinci will probably fire him at the end of the year.
3. John Fox- See Marvin Lewis

All three of those guys have coached and helped put together solid to great defenses. Thsoe 3 are a good start but they'll prolly command a big salary and i really hope McNair is willing to shell out for it.

dalemurphy
11-27-2007, 12:50 PM
McNair didn't spend $700 million until AFTER Houston was granted team.

We have lost Steve Foley, Aaron Glenn, and Jamie Sharper because McNair/Casserley didn't want to pay them. We also drafted Mario partly because Bob didn't want a holdout with Bush (penny pinching basically).

We have failed to attain any top Free Agents due to him penny pinching but resigned losers like David Carr to max extensions.

We probably have the cheapest coaching staff in the NFL behind Buffalo. No one is making top dollar and it shows on the field.

McNair spent a lot of money to get the team here, of that there is no question. But he has done little to help the team since then. He needs to open up the wallet and hire some top coaching (INCLUDING HEAD COACH) if he wants this franchise to turn the corner. Both our coordinators were pretty bad and our head coach is basically a glorified OC. A good OC but not a good Head Coach. He looks completely overwhelmed and has since Day One. All I need to know is that Gary thought Carr could succeed. That alone shows that Gary doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground.

Hire Cowher as HC
Hire LeBeau as DC
Sign Faneca as FA
Bring Joey Porter over from Miami for $$ and to reunite with Cowher/LeBeau
Draft a RB

if we do those things, we will be in the playoffs next year without a doubt...but we won't. Gary is here for at least 2 more years, so prepare for more suckitude.


Are you actually arguing that we didn't sign Foley, Sharper, and Glenn because McNair was unwilling to fork over the money? That's ridiculous! The GM decided they weren't worth the money. We've overspent all over the place for players like Robaire Smith, Todd Wade, Seth Payne, Gary Walker- all those guys got bigger contracts than would've been required to secure the players you listed.

Also, it's a ridiculous assumption that we drafted Mario over Reggie for monetary reasons. First of all, it was a good decision. Second, the Texans have always been among the first to pay out there high first round picks. Bush even said when it happened that they were in basic agreement on money before they began to seriously consider Mario.

How do you know what the coaching staff makes? I'm sure Kubiak, Sherman, Frank Bush, and John Hoke rank fairly high in coaching salaries for the positions they're coaching.

dalemurphy
11-27-2007, 12:53 PM
There are a few guys we should have on speed dial at the end of the year.

1. Ron Rivera
2. Marvin Lewis - Cinci will probably fire him at the end of the year.
3. John Fox- See Marvin Lewis

All three of those guys have coached and helped put together solid to great defenses. Thsoe 3 are a good start but they'll prolly command a big salary and i really hope McNair is willing to shell out for it.


No thank you on all three of those guys! We don't need a name, we just need someone better- I trust that Kubiak and Smith can study the issue, interview, and find a good fit without going after a name. All three of those guys you mentioned have seriously underachieving defenses right now- which is why the last two will be fired. I know Rivera coaches LBs this year, but certainly the SD LBs are much less productive with him than they were last year under Phillips and company.

Specnatz
11-27-2007, 01:05 PM
McNair didn't spend $700 million until AFTER Houston was granted team.

We have lost Steve Foley, Aaron Glenn, and Jamie Sharper because McNair/Casserley didn't want to pay them. We also drafted Mario partly because Bob didn't want a holdout with Bush (penny pinching basically).

We have failed to attain any top Free Agents due to him penny pinching but resigned losers like David Carr to max extensions.

We probably have the cheapest coaching staff in the NFL behind Buffalo. No one is making top dollar and it shows on the field.

McNair spent a lot of money to get the team here, of that there is no question. But he has done little to help the team since then. He needs to open up the wallet and hire some top coaching (INCLUDING HEAD COACH) if he wants this franchise to turn the corner. Both our coordinators were pretty bad and our head coach is basically a glorified OC. A good OC but not a good Head Coach. He looks completely overwhelmed and has since Day One. All I need to know is that Gary thought Carr could succeed. That alone shows that Gary doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground.

Hire Cowher as HC
Hire LeBeau as DC
Sign Faneca as FA
Bring Joey Porter over from Miami for $$ and to reunite with Cowher/LeBeau
Draft a RB

if we do those things, we will be in the playoffs next year without a doubt...but we won't. Gary is here for at least 2 more years, so prepare for more suckitude.

Yes it is very good in principal to say hire a guy who at the moment would rather be with his family in North carolina and last time I checked a map Houston is no where near North carolina.

As far as letting the players go, that was Casserly's call not McNair. McNair just rights the checks and Casserly is the one who made the calls on those players but of course that would be far to easy to blame the people who are responsible but hey lets blame the owner for listening to those that he has put in place.

Dick LeBeau is with the Pittsburg Steelers and has been the Defensive Coordinator of the Steelers since 2004, unless you promote him to something above D-Cor I am not sure how expect to sign him away from the Steelers but hey yeah lets just toss a name out there without facts or knowledge of a guys career. This is his second stint with the steelers, it is home to him.

Faneca is a LG, a position we do not really need to upgrade compared to other positions like Center and the DB and LT. Granted he is one of the best at his position but still the money should be spent upgrading the weakest spots on the team.

As far as Porter is concerned, I do not really care for him but if the money was right sure why not.

You are a revisonist when it comes to the history of players and of how things have happened with the Texans you change who you blame depending on whom the thread is about. In this thread you are not blaming McNair for Mario and Carr but as soon as a Kubiak thread appears you will blame him solely for the decision. Yes the Carr situation was McNairs and all the advice he got from others who later recanted what they said. McNair does not know players he seeks advice and goes with it, what a novel concept for an owner.

nunusguy
11-27-2007, 01:21 PM
I dunno, so tell me what Smith has got to do with OD dropping or fumbling footballs coming his way ? Or how is he to blame for AJ being indifferent
about fighting with a rookie CB for passes ?

Specnatz
11-27-2007, 01:38 PM
I dunno, so tell me what Smith has got to do with OD dropping or fumbling footballs coming his way ? Or how is he to blame for AJ being indifferent
about fighting with a rookie CB for passes ?

Actually in this thread it has absolutely nothing to do with either of those things, because they happened on the offensives side of the ball not the defense. This thread is about the dfense being vanillia and bland and not very imaginative.

If you want to talk about those things there is a thread regarding OD and his fumbles, feel free to start a thread about AJ not doing what he can to prevent the Int, other than that feel free to chime in on how the defense is in this thread.

:gun:

beerlover
11-27-2007, 02:00 PM
I don't see any major changes coming, defensively. our front four have been playing well Williams, Okoye, Johnson & Weaver. Linebacking is also much improved with the addtion of Danny Clark (three leading tacklers DeMeco- 94, Greenwood- 68, Clark-66) thats good production there. secondary wise they've been overacheiving given the extent of injurys. remember the Texans lost starting SS Earl Glenn before the season started, then his replacement Jason Simmons, so Rick Smith went out & aquired a couple more safetys in Boulware (dissapointment) & Will Demps (been very good). we lost our best CB in Dunta Robinson for the season (maybe next year too) & so they promoted late 4th rd. pick Fred Bennett who has been learning well ahead of the curve. meanwhile Fletcher has been out (suppossed to add depth) & Von Hutchins stepped up to supplant Faggins who was your nickle back to begin with. I guess everyone has forgotton that C.C. Brown was a 6th rd pick from the football dynasty L.A.-Lafayette & that his 58 tackles are 4th best on the team.


lets be realistic now the Texans defense has improved under Richard Smith. the Texans are 19th in total defense so far in 07 combine that improvement with his first season (24th) against 05 (31st) & you can see a positive trend. so I beleive its resonable to assume there will be no changes made here for the time being, that needs will be addressed in the offseason & the status of current players on the roster will be closely evaluated :d:

nunusguy
11-27-2007, 02:07 PM
Actually in this thread it has absolutely nothing to do with either of those things, because they happened on the offensives side of the ball not the defense. This thread is about the dfense being vanillia and bland and not very imaginative.

If you want to talk about those things there is a thread regarding OD and his fumbles, feel free to start a thread about AJ not doing what he can to prevent the Int, other than that feel free to chime in on how the defense is in this thread.

:gun:
I didn't miss the subject of the thread, I know its about Smith & the D.
The point I'm trying make is that we lost in Cleveland Sunday more because
our receivers didn't make the clutch plays (as the Cleveland receivers did),
and not because of any deficiencies or inadequacies or lack of origionality on the part of Smith or his defense.

GP
11-27-2007, 02:25 PM
He was complaining about the exact same thing in another thread. And he has never really given another option as a DC that would have been better at the time and has not given a reason as to why Mcnair is a penny pincher except that we supposedly don't pay coaches. I don't know how he would actually know either way how much a coach is getting paid. I don't think it was publicized what any of our coordinators were being paid.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, how about Gene Chizik?

Remember him? That's a guy we could use. He's a d-coordinator who is failing as a HC right now in the NCAA. I have always felt that 99% of coaches need to stop pretending to be HCs. If you are a good d-coordinator (Wannstedt, Labeu, etc.) you need to stick with your bread & butter. Gene Chizik would be a pretty good d-coordinator, IMO. A few guys make it out: Gruden, Cowher, Pete Carroll. But most go in to the HC and find out really quick that they need to be a coordinator.

He took Auburn's defense and took it from a joke and made it one of the best NCAA defenses.

He leaves Auburn, goes to Texas, and makes UT's defense one of the best.

Track record. I want a guy who has achieved greatness in the DC role within the past 5 years or so. Not a guy hwo's pretty much irrelevent and hasn't been turning things around anywhere.

Is that good enough? I don't sit at home all day and study who is who. But I know that there are ACHIEVERS out there who would fit the role a lot better than Richard Smith.

BTW, I come up with lots of solutions and ideas. Thanks for attempting to disparage me, though. You guys go ahead and continue shooting from the hip.

barrett
11-27-2007, 02:26 PM
i agree with beer lover. another point to make is that on top of everything else, our defense has been put in some pretty ugly situations on several occasions. they have also had bad games where they just didn't show up to play, on the other hand there have been numerous occasions where our offense has left them with a short field and their backs against the endzone and they have continued over and over to force field goal attempts.

barrett
11-27-2007, 02:28 PM
No thank you on all three of those guys! We don't need a name, we just need someone better- I trust that Kubiak and Smith can study the issue, interview, and find a good fit without going after a name. All three of those guys you mentioned have seriously underachieving defenses right now- which is why the last two will be fired. I know Rivera coaches LBs this year, but certainly the SD LBs are much less productive with him than they were last year under Phillips and company.

wasn't everyone thinking that Frank Bush our "senior defensive assistant" was supposed to end up being the guy?

Imatexanfan
11-27-2007, 02:31 PM
You know don't laugh or anything but is there anyway we can get that ol' geezer from the Eagles, Jim Johnson?! Now I know he's old but man I've always liked the D that he's put together up there. Every year they're off the chain, Jimmy come on down "the water is fine..."(I've always wanted to say that):fans:

GP
11-27-2007, 02:35 PM
wasn't everyone thinking that Frank Bush our "senior defensive assistant" was supposed to end up being the guy?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Who knows? We don't.

I'm not slamming you, but I am trying to point out that with Gary Kubiak...I don't think we're going to know anything until it happens. Herm Edwards is a guy will get up there and basically let you know what he thinks.

Gary, on the other hand, is very crafty with his words.

I honestly think Richard Smith will be the defensive coordinator as long as Gary Kubiak is the HC here.

Calhoun ran off to be HC at Air Force.

And now Sherman is heading into Aggieland.

Seems the only way OUT is for you to leave on your own.

If Richard Smith is the DC next year, then that'll pretty much tell me all I need to know about the Gary Kubiak era.

barrett
11-27-2007, 02:39 PM
keep in mind when discussing DC changes, we have to look at our personnel. do we have the right players for the right schemes? if we brought in some guy that want's to radically change the schemes does that mean we have to change a bunch of personnel? i'd love to retain some continuity regardless of what coaching changes (may) happen.

i still really think that loosing duanta showed that we can play better in a zone than in man. when he returns i hope that whoever is coaching the defense will stick with that somewhat.

barrett
11-27-2007, 02:55 PM
i don't feel "slammed". personally i agree with you. i think richard smith WILL be our coordinator next year as well. i'm not even sure that's a bad thing. i don't think it's resonable to say that someone will be the coach "for as long as kubiak is here". i'm sure everyone is evaluated at the end of the season.

bigbrewster2000
11-27-2007, 03:14 PM
Well, how about Gene Chizik?

Remember him? That's a guy we could use. He's a d-coordinator who is failing as a HC right now in the NCAA. I have always felt that 99% of coaches need to stop pretending to be HCs. If you are a good d-coordinator (Wannstedt, Labeu, etc.) you need to stick with your bread & butter. Gene Chizik would be a pretty good d-coordinator, IMO. A few guys make it out: Gruden, Cowher, Pete Carroll. But most go in to the HC and find out really quick that they need to be a coordinator.

He took Auburn's defense and took it from a joke and made it one of the best NCAA defenses.

He leaves Auburn, goes to Texas, and makes UT's defense one of the best.

Track record. I want a guy who has achieved greatness in the DC role within the past 5 years or so. Not a guy hwo's pretty much irrelevent and hasn't been turning things around anywhere.

Is that good enough? I don't sit at home all day and study who is who. But I know that there are ACHIEVERS out there who would fit the role a lot better than Richard Smith.

BTW, I come up with lots of solutions and ideas. Thanks for attempting to disparage me, though. You guys go ahead and continue shooting from the hip.

Are you saying Gene Chizik now or then, because I was specifically talking about then which is specifically stated in my post. I am not attemting to disparage you, I am trying to get a solution to the problem not just a continued statement of the problem. How do you know that Chizik was available when Smith was hired?

GP
11-27-2007, 03:19 PM
Are you saying Gene Chizik now or then, because I was specifically talking about then which is specifically stated in my post. I am not attemting to disparage you, I am trying to get a solution to the problem not just a continued statement of the problem. How do you know that Chizik was available when Smith was hired?

Because he was an official head coaching candidate, early on, when we canned Capers. I began to actually pull for the guy to maybe get the Texans HC spot...but the field narrowed fairly quickly and Gene was excluded.

I then realized that it was for the best: We needed a guy who had been in the NFL. Gene Chizik is a great DC.

bigbrewster2000
11-27-2007, 03:27 PM
Because he was an official head coaching candidate, early on, when we canned Capers. I began to actually pull for the guy to maybe get the Texans HC spot...but the field narrowed fairly quickly and Gene was excluded.

I then realized that it was for the best: We needed a guy who had been in the NFL. Gene Chizik is a great DC.
If he had his hat in the head coaching ring do you think he even put his hat or even wanted to put his hat into the DC job here? I am just curious. I personally would not try to get an effetively lesser job with a team that would not give me the HC job. And while he is failing as a Head Coach right now he is making more money as a College HC than he would as the Texans DC.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 03:28 PM
Are you actually arguing that we didn't sign Foley, Sharper, and Glenn because McNair was unwilling to fork over the money? That's ridiculous! The GM decided they weren't worth the money. We've overspent all over the place for players like Robaire Smith, Todd Wade, Seth Payne, Gary Walker- all those guys got bigger contracts than would've been required to secure the players you listed.

Also, it's a ridiculous assumption that we drafted Mario over Reggie for monetary reasons. First of all, it was a good decision. Second, the Texans have always been among the first to pay out there high first round picks. Bush even said when it happened that they were in basic agreement on money before they began to seriously consider Mario.

How do you know what the coaching staff makes? I'm sure Kubiak, Sherman, Frank Bush, and John Hoke rank fairly high in coaching salaries for the positions they're coaching.

wrong. whether or not the GM thought they werent worth the money, they were let go for financial reasons. Glenn was worth the money and was already signed, Sharper was dinged but was still a good veteran presence, Foley never even got to see the field because our GM/Coaching Staff were too oblivious to his playmaking abilities and tried to overcoach him. If McNair didn't care about the $$ he would have kept Glenn and Sharper and NOT overpay for the guys brought in to replace them (which you list in your post). Bottom line is that Glenn should have NEVER been released. Period. he was released for $$ reasons. He was not a liability and is still in the league to this day.....oh and we are sitting here looking for CB help :(

We sent a contract to both Mario and Reggie. Mario's agent jumped at the chance, Bush's called our bluff. McNair called the agent's bluff and signed/drafted Mario. It was PARTLY for financial reasons due to the fact that McNair didn't want a holdout and didn't want to be held hostage by Bush's agent. Whether or not we made the right decision is a LONG way from being proven and frankly I would give Bush the nod at this time. Both are underperforming and inconsistent, but Bush has made more of a difference to his team than Mario has in almost every aspect (wins, losses, increase interest in fans/media, marketability) I don't think either player was worth the $$ and picks but Bush has probably had a better return than Mario and anyone outside of Houston will say the same. It's not as lopsided as once thought but most experts would give the nod to Bush based on Mario's sleepwalking through most games.

As for our coaching staff, the only high profile guys we have gotten were Calhoun, who has departed to the AF Academy, and Sherman, who has gone to the college that doesnt believe in female cheerleaders. The rest of our staff is bottom of the barrel at best. Sherman gets paid well but Richard Smith was there like their 5th choice and its due to the fact that Kubiak couldnt hire a staff until almost February due to Denver's AFC Championship run. Not all his fault but now its time to fix it and get a real staff, not some dimestore staff.

If we dont go the Cowher route, and its obvious we won't, we should do the next best thing. Hire a quality and proven Defensive Coordinator such as Rivera or Fox and then a good OC to replace Sherman and help Kubiak keep the offense progressing (which it has under Gary/Mike's watch)

Coaches don't count against the salary cap, so what is wrong with getting the best staff that money can buy. It's not a guarantee that its gonna work but it sure can't hurt. it's a hell of a lot better idea than throwing loads of jack to 2nd rate Free Agents such as Wade, Greenwood, etc.

You give Gary next year with a new DC and OC to turn things around. If he doesnt, its time to get a new coaching regime.....Cowher would be nice.

Oh and Spec, I only mention LeBeau to Houston if it was with Cowher coming here too. Of course he aint coming to Houston to be a DC under Gary. No doubt. As for Faneca, that would be a good signing and we are going to have to pony up for a renewal for Pitts or Weary anyway, so we choose one to keep and sign Faneca to replace the one who departs.

McNair has yet to make a move that sends the message that Houston is here to win. It seems we are here to just exist. I don't know what is wrong with suggesting taht we upgrade our coaching and our talent on the field. WTF is so wrong with that? Is everyone here satisified with what we have? I didn't think so. You can slam me for having a different opinion on how to fix things, but one thing is without question. THINGS NEED TO BE FIXED.

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 03:31 PM
I thought Sharper was let go, because he dared to question leadership on the team (probably aimed at HWSRN and Capers).. and had nothing to do with being dinged (although he was) or monetary reasons...

infantrycak
11-27-2007, 03:40 PM
I thought Sharper was let go, because he dared to question leadership on the team (probably aimed at HWSRN and Capers).. and had nothing to do with being dinged (although he was) or monetary reasons...

Depends on the agenda of the person posting. McClain did say around that time (don't remember if it was before or after) that the Texans had concerns about Sharper's knee. Turns out those concerns, if not imaginary, were correct.

Foley was a non-issue money wise. Fangio/Capers just didn't like the guy and wanted to fill the roster spot with someone they liked better same as with Marlon McCree. May have been bad decision making but it wasn't penny pinching.

As for our coaching staff, the only high profile guys we have gotten were Calhoun, who has departed to the AF Academy, and Sherman, who has gone to the college that doesnt believe in female cheerleaders. The rest of our staff is bottom of the barrel at best. Sherman gets paid well but Richard Smith was there like their 5th choice and its due to the fact that Kubiak couldnt hire a staff until almost February due to Denver's AFC Championship run. Not all his fault but now its time to fix it and get a real staff, not some dimestore staff.

John Hoke is very well regarded and several teams have made runs at him. Smith wasn't their first choice but that wasn't because of money concerns but availability. They wanted Frank Bush and were rejected. Now totally contrary to your point they have both with a corresponding increase in salaries.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 03:41 PM
I thought Sharper was let go, because he dared to question leadership on the team (probably aimed at HWSRN and Capers).. and had nothing to do with being dinged (although he was) or monetary reasons...

yeah he was basically outing Carr as a bad QB and poor leader and asking why he was being coddled so much. then when they saw that he was making so much $$ and was dinged they were like 'lets get rid of him, he doesnt think Carr is any good. God forbid a player step up and call Carr out for being a crappy QB. David is God and will lead us to the Super Bowl'

Sharper, Glenn, Robaire Smith, and Gary Walker all called out Carr indirectly and every last one of them was shown the door. All were high dollar players though so it was a combination of reasons but $$ was a factor. No doubt.

I was actually worried about Dunta but by the time he called out DC it was obvious to everyone besides Jerek, nflforher, DC's family, and Caddy that Carr was total crap....so he got a pass. Thank God.

man, I just want the team to show more fire and stop making stupid mistakes. There is still little to no accountability on this team even though it has improved....after all Mario is 'exceptional' even though he was practically invisible on the field in Cleveland (unblocked sack notwithstanding)

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 03:44 PM
Depends on the agenda of the person posting. McClain did say around that time (don't remember if it was before or after) that the Texans had concerns about Sharper's knee. Turns out those concerns, if not imaginary, were correct.

Foley was a non-issue money wise. Fangio/Capers just didn't like the guy and wanted to fill the roster spot with someone they liked better same as with Marlon McCree. May have been bad decision making but it wasn't penny pinching.

I still don't know why they got rid of McRee. He made plays for us that year and I thought was a great get. I did think that Foley was up for reneg though and it was a contributing factor.

As for Sharper he wasnt giving us enough return on our investment but our defense went from being a strength the 7-9 year to being a handicap once Glenn and Sharper departed for a combo of reasons. I thought he gave us good leadership as did Glenn. Essentially trading Glenn and a 2nd Round pick for PBuchananon is still one of the worst moves in NFL history. PBuc wasn't a bad player but why get rid of Glenn? Glenn could have at least been a nickel and depth.......Back in those days you could count on our defense showing up....now its pretty much a coin toss.

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 03:56 PM
My agenda was that I was completely happy with the Texans picking Sharper in the expansion draft. I knew he played second fiddle to Ray Lewis in Baltimore (and deservedly so), but I also recognized that he was making a lot of plays for that defense too.

And yes, I remember that Sharper blew his knee out in Seattle and in fact, by the time the Texans played their Sunday night game there, Sharper was already done.

I never could figure out the Marlon McCree deal. Seems like on minute the FO made a decent move bringing talent and creating depth to a perennial weak position for us, only to turn around and let him go to San Diego?!?! WTH?? Not saying that McCree was a world beater, but how good would he look in the secondary right now???

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 04:37 PM
My agenda was that I was completely happy with the Texans picking Sharper in the expansion draft. I knew he played second fiddle to Ray Lewis in Baltimore (and deservedly so), but I also recognized that he was making a lot of plays for that defense too.

And yes, I remember that Sharper blew his knee out in Seattle and in fact, by the time the Texans played their Sunday night game there, Sharper was already done.

I never could figure out the Marlon McCree deal. Seems like on minute the FO made a decent move bringing talent and creating depth to a perennial weak position for us, only to turn around and let him go to San Diego?!?! WTH?? Not saying that McCree was a world beater, but how good would he look in the secondary right now???


exactly man, I just want to win. and I am sick of our team bringing knives to a gun fight. why dont we blitz? is this another byproduct of the 'good guy' aka 'bunch of losers' mentality? football is a man's sport not a gentleman's sport. if you want a gentleman's sport go watch The Masters of watch some tennis. What ever happened to the House Of Pain attitude. Now it seems like the organization is so paranoid about 'character' and taking players off their draft board that we have a bunch of vanilla premed student losers who arent willing to do waht it takes to win.

you gotta hurt people to win. you gotta take chances to win. you gotta smash people in teh mouth. i just dont see it other than Dunta and CC and the next guy CC can cover will be the first.

sbalderrama
11-27-2007, 04:53 PM
why dont we blitz?

because we don't want to leave our depleted secondary more vulnerable than they already are. Do you people really think the coaches arn't thinking about this stuff?

from Gary's monday presser:

(on not being overly aggressive on defense) “Well, I would say over the course of the last two weeks, we probably have not blitzed that much. Of course, we’ve had some secondary problems, which from a standpoint of how we approached those games of what gave us a chance to win, I think we were doing the right things. I think we were doing the right things yesterday I should say, I think, I know we were. But we can still do a better job with our four guys of rushing the quarterback, you’re right. There comes times you’ve got to get more aggressive and try to make some plays, but like I said I think we had our football team in position. They were doing their job. Sometimes you’ve got to do a little bit more than your job. You’re right, so it’s something we’ll have to take a look at, but they gave us a chance.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3956

GP
11-27-2007, 04:53 PM
If he had his hat in the head coaching ring do you think he even put his hat or even wanted to put his hat into the DC job here? I am just curious. I personally would not try to get an effetively lesser job with a team that would not give me the HC job. And while he is failing as a Head Coach right now he is making more money as a College HC than he would as the Texans DC.

Well, IMO, and I guess it doesn't count for much or I'd be an NFL exec...

Chizik was not ready for a HC job in the NFL. He did the next best thing and is now a HC in the NCAA. However, he's not exactly ripping up the competition in the NCAA.

And that's where a smart guy cuts his losses and goes back to doing what he does best: calling the defense. I don't see Chizik going back to a coordinator job in the NCAA after being a HC in the NCAA. But I can definitely see the guy making the leap up to the Texans as a DC...with the added bonus of possibly being able to take over as Texans HC if the stars align correctly.

You and I might think that it's a slap in the face: Hey! Why didn't you just hire me in the first place?

But...we're talking about professional men who are always angling or jockeying their careers into the best position available.

If I were Gene Chizik, I'd look at the Texans in this way: (1) I get to coach Mario Williams, Amobi Okoye, and DeMeco Ryans; and (2) I might just do well enough to get a HC spot in the NFL.

He's done the DC gig in NCAA. He's done the HC gig in the NCAA. The NFL is the next frontier for the guy, IMO.

All of this to say this: He's only ONE guy (out of many many more) who can do this job as DC. But we have Richard Smith? I had to re-read the message boards when I read that we had hired Richard Smith as DC two years ago. I read his bio, his career accomplishments and such, and I was stunned. This was it? Wow.

I didn't buy it for a second. Add this move in with all the others (David Carr extension, a bad string of washed up linemen on both sides of the ball, letting Aaron Glenn go due to m-o-n-e-y) and the ledger begins to tip to one side of the page: We possibly have a tightwad owner. I mean, it IS possible. Theguy didn't get wealthy by accident...but yet you are not going to win a Super Bowl by paying more attention to the bottom line rather than the stat line in the box scores.

This does not sit well with the fan who wants to believe that things are fine. That things are going as planned. It eats at those who don't want to think it's possible to become as disenfranchised as Herv has. You don't want to be that way. It crushes your spirit.

And I'm not trying to be the guy who crushes anybody's spirit. But I have learned, as a Texans fan, that you better not over-inflate your expectations. Not now. And probably not for a few more years.

It'll take a lot more than I think any of us are even prepared to calculate, IMO, to get us to a situation of being a bonified NFL team who is playing on the same level as the others. On a consistent basis, by the way.

We've had bargain-basement assistants/coordinators. Heck, JOE MARCIANO is the only guy brought back after the Capers era. He's a guy who is operating at a high level, IMO. He won't be a HC, but he gets HIS job done almost all the time. He's a star. And we kept him. But we need about 12 more Joe Marciano's in the other areas.

Maybe Bob Mcnair spent his self-imposed budget of coaching money on Joe Marciano (just kidding, but it's plausible).

GP
11-27-2007, 05:02 PM
You guys are asking about why didn't blitz more.

I haven't seen anybody ask why Mario is back to putting his hand down on the ground during the snap count.

He looked LIGHT YEARS ahead of where's been when we played the Saints. He was motoring into position, collapsing the pocket and forcing Bress to move around and into other linemen.

BUt what happens next week? Back to putting the hand down. I might have missed some plays vs. Browns...but I'm fairly sure that he was not standing up on the vast majority of plays like he had vs. Saints.

This team, overall, has success doing something and then they get cute and try to do other stuff. "Let's EXPAND!" NO!!!!! Let's just keep doing what we do best...we tend to WIN when we are content with being one-dimentional.

Sometimes I think, and I have stated this before, that Gary and the crew get excited over a win and they begin trying to implement other things. This is basically a team that still has Capers residue all over it, in terms of a losing mentality--a "we beat ourselves" mentality.

Can we just do one thing and do it well for awhile? Man, it's very easy to see where Herv is coming from. This team is an enigma. A mystery.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 05:03 PM
because we don't want to leave our depleted secondary more vulnerable than they already are. Do you people really think the coaches arn't thinking about this stuff?

from Gary's monday presser:

(on not being overly aggressive on defense) “Well, I would say over the course of the last two weeks, we probably have not blitzed that much. Of course, we’ve had some secondary problems, which from a standpoint of how we approached those games of what gave us a chance to win, I think we were doing the right things. I think we were doing the right things yesterday I should say, I think, I know we were. But we can still do a better job with our four guys of rushing the quarterback, you’re right. There comes times you’ve got to get more aggressive and try to make some plays, but like I said I think we had our football team in position. They were doing their job. Sometimes you’ve got to do a little bit more than your job. You’re right, so it’s something we’ll have to take a look at, but they gave us a chance.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3956

gary said nothing other than 'we give up. our secondary sucks and our four guys arent doing enough. were doing our best.'

i dont buy it. they didnt blitz when we had Dunta either. I am sick of the excuses for the bad play by the defense. If those 4 can't get it done, then put another combination of 4 in there.

i understand that the secondary is banged up.....because of this YOU BLITZ SO THE GUYS DONT HAVE TO COVER THEIR MAN FOR 5-8 SECONDS! they are looking at it the wrong way. if your secondary sucks YOU BLITZ. they are just too stupid and conservative to realize this.

the only sacks we have gotten all year have basically been coverage sacks, so that tells me we dont blitz and that the lack of blitzing hurts our secondary.

reading that load of garbage from Gary's presser only makes me question his ability to problem solve even more.

so i guess rushing 4 and letting the browns throw the ball all over the field with no pressure is a good game plan? whatever, Gary and his 2nd rate assistants all suck.

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 05:10 PM
exactly man, I just want to win. and I am sick of our team bringing knives to a gun fight. why dont we blitz? is this another byproduct of the 'good guy' aka 'bunch of losers' mentality? football is a man's sport not a gentleman's sport. if you want a gentleman's sport go watch The Masters of watch some tennis. What ever happened to the House Of Pain attitude. Now it seems like the organization is so paranoid about 'character' and taking players off their draft board that we have a bunch of vanilla premed student losers who arent willing to do waht it takes to win.

you gotta hurt people to win. you gotta take chances to win. you gotta smash people in teh mouth. i just dont see it other than Dunta and CC and the next guy CC can cover will be the first.

Very true about the good character thing. It's gone too far. Other than Sean Jones (and thats considered a white collar crime), I am not really sure who else from the "House of Pain" days are serving time in prison or are a true menace to society. Those guys got after it, hit and intimidated people.

I'm all for punching somebody in the mouth. In fact, we have been too nice for too long so it needs to be more than a punch in the mouth, it needs to be a fist down someone's throat...


My rant for the day.....

GP
11-27-2007, 05:16 PM
gary said nothing other than 'we give up. our secondary sucks and our four guys arent doing enough. were doing our best.'

i dont buy it. they didnt blitz when we had Dunta either. I am sick of the excuses for the bad play by the defense. If those 4 can't get it done, then put another combination of 4 in there.

i understand that the secondary is banged up.....because of this YOU BLITZ SO THE GUYS DONT HAVE TO COVER THEIR MAN FOR 5-8 SECONDS! they are looking at it the wrong way. if your secondary sucks YOU BLITZ. they are just too stupid and conservative to realize this.

the only sacks we have gotten all year have basically been coverage sacks, so that tells me we dont blitz and that the lack of blitzing hurts our secondary.

reading that load of garbage from Gary's presser only makes me question his ability to problem solve even more.

so i guess rushing 4 and letting the browns throw the ball all over the field with no pressure is a good game plan? whatever, Gary and his 2nd rate assistants all suck.

I noticed he used the "we're doing the right things" line again.

This is the same line he used to try and explain the bad play of Ron Dayne and Samkon Gado, remember? "Ron and Samkon are doing the right things..."

I don't think Gary needs to flip out at the podium or anything. He just needs to exhibit the ability to be honest about the team. He's not. Maybe he wants Richard Smith gone as much as I do. Maybe.

It seems "maybe" is the key word for this team.

Second Honeymoon
11-27-2007, 05:17 PM
Very true about the good character thing. It's gone too far. Other than Sean Jones (and thats considered a white collar crime), I am not really sure who else from the "House of Pain" days are serving time in prison or are a true menace to society. Those guys got after it, hit and intimidated people.

I'm all for punching somebody in the mouth. In fact, we have been too nice for too long so it needs to be more than a punch in the mouth, it needs to be a fist down someone's throat...


My rant for the day.....

I hetero-love me some TexanBill....yeah Bubba McDowell i think is an ordained minister. That dude used to rock people's worlds. You can be good people and still be mean as hell and a guy you wouldn't want to run into in a dark alley. Reliant is country club atmosphere whereas Astrodome was like Thunderdome "2 men enter; 1 man leave'

GP
11-27-2007, 05:21 PM
I hetero-love me some TexanBill....yeah Bubba McDowell i think is an ordained minister. That dude used to rock people's worlds. You can be good people and still be mean as hell and a guy you wouldn't want to run into in a dark alley. Reliant is country club atmosphere whereas Astrodome was like Thunderdome "2 men enter; 1 man leave'

Remember Gary Brown and Lorenzo White?

We'd pop a screen pass out to one of those guys, and it was like "BOO-YA!"

I used to get goosebumps from watching us run the screen pass and just DOMINATE and bulldoze defenders.

That's why I get so ticked off when we run the screen pass on the Texans team...and we get about 4 yards off it.

Yeah, there was a Buddy Ryan "Make Them Beg For Mercy" attitude back in those days. (Sigh) That was a fun time, minus Frank Reich.

Goldensilence
11-27-2007, 05:23 PM
No thank you on all three of those guys! We don't need a name, we just need someone better- I trust that Kubiak and Smith can study the issue, interview, and find a good fit without going after a name. All three of those guys you mentioned have seriously underachieving defenses right now- which is why the last two will be fired. I know Rivera coaches LBs this year, but certainly the SD LBs are much less productive with him than they were last year under Phillips and company.

Dude...you're crazy not to think ONE of those 3 is a better candidate.

I'm not saying let's go get a name...All 3 of those guys have great track records when it comesto defense. Under Rivera the Bears were consistently a top 3 defense and if i'm remembering right through the fog of my memory Marvin Lewis was part of the architect behind the dominant Ravens defenses. Fox has a good track record as well and he hasn't had some bad defenses in Carolina either.

It's not completely Marvins fault the mess that is Cinci right now. Injuries have really derailed Fox in Carolina...not helping is HWONBN. As for Rivera....he has never been under a 3-4 defense and that was Wade Phillips job who is currently doing a whale of a job with the Dallas D.It hasn't helped that The Norv Turner effect has fallen on that team and they surely will continue to spiral in SD if he continues to be the captain of that ship.

But hey....i mean...what's in a name...or track record?

Texan_Bill
11-27-2007, 05:42 PM
Remember Gary Brown and Lorenzo White?

We'd pop a screen pass out to one of those guys, and it was like "BOO-YA!"

I used to get goosebumps from watching us run the screen pass and just DOMINATE and bulldoze defenders.

That's why I get so ticked off when we run the screen pass on the Texans team...and we get about 4 yards off it.

Yeah, there was a Buddy Ryan "Make Them Beg For Mercy" attitude back in those days. (Sigh) That was a fun time, minus Frank Reich.

Very true, which brings me back into my rant.. I forgot that we had an O-line that was just as capable of punching people in the mouth as the "D". In some respects, people lost sight of that as we went to the run and shoot full time. But prior to using it full time, we used 'red-gun' which was our 'part-time' run and shoot, our O-line could dominate the line of scrimmage. Add to that O-line that stable of running backs, which you mention a couple above, and the Oilers were downright nasty..... Until Buddy Ryan went super conservative in the play-offs with his 46 defense.

dalemurphy
11-27-2007, 11:46 PM
Dude...you're crazy not to think ONE of those 3 is a better candidate.

I'm not saying let's go get a name...All 3 of those guys have great track records when it comesto defense. Under Rivera the Bears were consistently a top 3 defense and if i'm remembering right through the fog of my memory Marvin Lewis was part of the architect behind the dominant Ravens defenses. Fox has a good track record as well and he hasn't had some bad defenses in Carolina either.

It's not completely Marvins fault the mess that is Cinci right now. Injuries have really derailed Fox in Carolina...not helping is HWONBN. As for Rivera....he has never been under a 3-4 defense and that was Wade Phillips job who is currently doing a whale of a job with the Dallas D.It hasn't helped that The Norv Turner effect has fallen on that team and they surely will continue to spiral in SD if he continues to be the captain of that ship.

But hey....i mean...what's in a name...or track record?

Would you also like Brian Billick as the new O.C. After all, he made a name for himself as a great O.C. in Minnesota 10 years ago. We can just ignore the fact that as a head coach is offensed as been consistantly abysmal.

John Fox and Marvin Lewis have been utter failures for the past three years. Explain to me how a defensive genius could have a healthy Julius Peppers, Ruckers, Jenkins, J.Beason, Thomas Davis, Chris Gamble, Richard Marshall.. and be an absolutely horrific defense. How many probowl and/or first round picks does that defense have?

Meanwhile, I would think that a difference-maker of a coach could produce something other than consistently the worst defense in the league, even if the talent is below average. But, Marvin Lewis, consistantly has a horrible defense in Cincinnati.

edo783
11-28-2007, 12:25 AM
Would you also like Brian Billick as the new O.C. After all, he made a name for himself as a great O.C. in Minnesota 10 years ago. We can just ignore the fact that as a head coach is offensed as been consistantly abysmal.

John Fox and Marvin Lewis have been utter failures for the past three years. Explain to me how a defensive genius could have a healthy Julius Peppers, Ruckers, Jenkins, J.Beason, Thomas Davis, Chris Gamble, Richard Marshall.. and be an absolutely horrific defense. How many probowl and/or first round picks does that defense have?

Meanwhile, I would think that a difference-maker of a coach could produce something other than consistently the worst defense in the league, even if the talent is below average. But, Marvin Lewis, consistantly has a horrible defense in Cincinnati.

It is kind of interesting how coaches who were great offensive or defensive coaches seem to screw up that part when they are head coaches. Just look at Dom Capers for us. Well, he actually screwed up both, but you get my point.

dalemurphy
11-28-2007, 12:31 AM
gary said nothing other than 'we give up. our secondary sucks and our four guys arent doing enough. were doing our best.'

i dont buy it. they didnt blitz when we had Dunta either. I am sick of the excuses for the bad play by the defense. If those 4 can't get it done, then put another combination of 4 in there.

i understand that the secondary is banged up.....because of this YOU BLITZ SO THE GUYS DONT HAVE TO COVER THEIR MAN FOR 5-8 SECONDS! they are looking at it the wrong way. if your secondary sucks YOU BLITZ. they are just too stupid and conservative to realize this.

the only sacks we have gotten all year have basically been coverage sacks, so that tells me we dont blitz and that the lack of blitzing hurts our secondary.

reading that load of garbage from Gary's presser only makes me question his ability to problem solve even more.

so i guess rushing 4 and letting the browns throw the ball all over the field with no pressure is a good game plan? whatever, Gary and his 2nd rate assistants all suck.


He's not going to call out his coordiator. If you read the quote, I think he does say they need to be more aggressive. Smith will be replaced after the season. Don't worry.

Goldensilence
11-28-2007, 11:03 AM
Would you also like Brian Billick as the new O.C. After all, he made a name for himself as a great O.C. in Minnesota 10 years ago. We can just ignore the fact that as a head coach is offensed as been consistantly abysmal.

John Fox and Marvin Lewis have been utter failures for the past three years. Explain to me how a defensive genius could have a healthy Julius Peppers, Ruckers, Jenkins, J.Beason, Thomas Davis, Chris Gamble, Richard Marshall.. and be an absolutely horrific defense. How many probowl and/or first round picks does that defense have?

Meanwhile, I would think that a difference-maker of a coach could produce something other than consistently the worst defense in the league, even if the talent is below average. But, Marvin Lewis, consistantly has a horrible defense in Cincinnati.

Actually yeah i wouldn't mind giving Billick a shot at OC look at how Martz has revived himself as OC with the Lions.

I don't see how you could label Fox's tenure there too much of failure his teams have made the playoffs, gone to the NFC championship game and oh yeah lost by a field goal in the closing seconds of a superbowl. He knows what it takes to win and it's not like his defenses have been horrific. Injuries have played a part on that defense.

I guess you don't remember Marvin Lewis in Baltimore or when he felt snubbed took the DC position in Washington where a underacheiving Defense RESPONDED to him. I think that's been a problem is players responding to a coach on defense and the coach knowing what they are doing. As for his HEADCOACHING tenure...sometimes you work with what you're given and sometimes you're just as good as your assistant coaches.

If we don't go after one of those guys....I'm all for bringing someone from Philly and the Jim Johnson School of defense.

dalemurphy
11-28-2007, 11:29 AM
Actually yeah i wouldn't mind giving Billick a shot at OC look at how Martz has revived himself as OC with the Lions.

I don't see how you could label Fox's tenure there too much of failure his teams have made the playoffs, gone to the NFC championship game and oh yeah lost by a field goal in the closing seconds of a superbowl. He knows what it takes to win and it's not like his defenses have been horrific. Injuries have played a part on that defense.

I guess you don't remember Marvin Lewis in Baltimore or when he felt snubbed took the DC position in Washington where a underacheiving Defense RESPONDED to him. I think that's been a problem is players responding to a coach on defense and the coach knowing what they are doing. As for his HEADCOACHING tenure...sometimes you work with what you're given and sometimes you're just as good as your assistant coaches.

If we don't go after one of those guys....I'm all for bringing someone from Philly and the Jim Johnson School of defense.


Martz's offenses at St. Louis were always good. He didn't revive anything. He was a bad head coach but always a good O.C.

Regarding Fox, what injuries have caused this defense this season to be so pathetic? I'll go out on a limb and say Richard Smith would have a pretty good defense with Peppers, Ruckers, Jenkins, Thomas Davis, Beason, CGamble, R.Marshall, C.Harris on the active roster.

Marvin Lewis has been in charge of the Bengals for 5 years, trying to improve the defense and it's only gone from bad to worse.

Just because someone has a reputation for success years ago doesn't make them an answer today. You are dealing off of a very limited list. You don't know the names of guys that could be very good D.C.'s because as a fan, you only hear the names the media throws around.

Nobody was screaming to give a job to Jeff Fisher in the mid 90s. Bill Cowher wasn't a name until after he was hired. I'm just saying that I want the Texans' organization to do thorough research and make a good hire. Furthermore, hiring a big name like those mentioned seems reactionary, unthorough, and like the type of move bad organizations make: See the Washington Redskins and Al Saunders, Steve Spurrier, etc...

Goldensilence
11-28-2007, 11:56 AM
Martz's offenses at St. Louis were always good. He didn't revive anything. He was a bad head coach but always a good O.C.

Regarding Fox, what injuries have caused this defense this season to be so pathetic? I'll go out on a limb and say Richard Smith would have a pretty good defense with Peppers, Ruckers, Jenkins, Thomas Davis, Beason, CGamble, R.Marshall, C.Harris on the active roster.

Marvin Lewis has been in charge of the Bengals for 5 years, trying to improve the defense and it's only gone from bad to worse.

Just because someone has a reputation for success years ago doesn't make them an answer today. You are dealing off of a very limited list. You don't know the names of guys that could be very good D.C.'s because as a fan, you only hear the names the media throws around.

Nobody was screaming to give a job to Jeff Fisher in the mid 90s. Bill Cowher wasn't a name until after he was hired. I'm just saying that I want the Texans' organization to do thorough research and make a good hire. Furthermore, hiring a big name like those mentioned seems reactionary, unthorough, and like the type of move bad organizations make: See the Washington Redskins and Al Saunders, Steve Spurrier, etc...

I point back to the first line of this post. Sometimes great coordinators don't make great HC.

Injuries on the Offense for Carolina have piled up IMO. I don't care how good a D you are if your offense can't stay on the field.....well we should know how that works here.

I'll agree on not being the biggest fan of what Washington does. But what Al Saunders had to work with in KC is vastly different from what he has to work with in DC. Not to mention a young QB who is looking like he'll be a solid NFL QB which i thought Jason Campbell had no shot at.

All that said I think it's paramount that Kubiak shows he's not afraid to let go of assistants or coordinators if it's not working out. Something the last regime couldn't do until it was too late. I don't care if we go with a lesser known name like you suggest or after one of the 3 like I've suggested in the end it's clear it's not working out and we needachange.

threetoedpete
11-28-2007, 01:31 PM
Of course there is always the other little thingy. They don't have the tallent on the roster to compete competively, consistantly when they have a couple of their front line players on the shelf ? Naw, that couldn't be it. Look fourth and one...everybody on the edge of their chairs screaming "go for it". They get stuffed. Got 'em down to their fourth team DB....he punks the all pro WR and the new QB...Ah, that's a tallent thingy. Coaches can't play for them. In the end players must execute. And our players, judging by the results of this season, regardless of the stats, do not have the tallent to compete. Their only goal now is to erase the donut in the division "W" column. No one wants to go balls out blitzing any more than Richard Smith does. You may disagree with that. But there is a reason they do not blitz more.

austintexanite
11-28-2007, 03:19 PM
If Lewis gets the axe in Cincy, that would be a great pickup for us. But, I severely doubt that will happen. Maybe if we dished out some serious cash for the DC of the Eagles and Ravens.

Rex King
11-29-2007, 09:22 PM
Just some food for thought:

On both MNF and NFL Matchup, Jaws mentioned that the Steelers and Ravens blitz about 40% of the time. About 10% of those blitzes resulted in a sack.

Don't know how it applies to us, but just thought it was interesting that two of the supposedly best blitzing teams still have a very low "success" rate on blitzes.

Andrew6
11-29-2007, 09:24 PM
Just some food for thought:

On both MNF and NFL Matchup, Jaws mentioned that the Steelers and Ravens blitz about 40% of the time. About 10% of those blitzes resulted in a sack.

Don't know how it applies to us, but just thought it was interesting that two of the supposedly best blitzing teams still have a very low "success" rate on blitzes.

Does it mention how it rushes the QB ? wonder how many INT. or tackles in the backfield etc. . . that produces.

Rex King
11-29-2007, 09:31 PM
That's why I put "success" in quotes. Jaws only mentioned the sacks, not the hurries, etc.

YoungTexanFan
11-30-2007, 11:39 AM
Most of the DC's known for blitzing are running the 3-4. While we have some personel geared toward that defense, we shouldn't attempt to fill our roster with that type of players. I wouldn't mind looking at the college level DC's. I would be really selective, but most college coaches are looking for a chance to move up to the next level. I wouldn't mind plucking a DC from the SEC or Big 10 maybe. I don't know who coaches who or what the make or their availabilty, so I'll just throw out some stuff.

LSU DC
Penn St DC
Ohio St DC

Just some consistently good college defenses. I think Bo Pelinni or something is at LSU, and I've heard he is on the move to a HC job at the NCAA level, but I'm not that sure.

brakos82
09-28-2008, 06:36 PM
Nothing new...

Corrosion
09-28-2008, 07:12 PM
Dick Smith isnt fired yet ? ..... whats the hold up ? :d: