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Texans_Chick
11-20-2007, 10:50 AM
Apparently, the NFL instead of doing team by team deals for ticket resellers, is working on a league wide reseller of tickets.

Some teams don't have deals with ticket sellers, and in fact, the Patriots are suing StubHub because they forbid reselling tickets for profit.

There is a long wait list for Texan fans wanting to be season ticket holders in premium seats. I would like for the Texans to crack down on the folks who are profiteers so that those tickets might become more Texan fan tickets and not visiting team tickets.

If the Texans are truly serious about the fans "being the homefield advantage" it is something they need to do. Politely, of course.

If you would like to read more about the subject, I wrote about it here:

NFL to Get New Deal With Ticket Resellers: Are Fans Winners or Losers? (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/20/nfl-to-get-new-deal-with-ticket-resellers-are-fans-winners-or-l/)

I have mixed feelings about it some, but ultimately, I think encouraging people to purchase tickets for profit hurts your fanbase. There are so many people who want to be in the BullPen for example, or on the sidelines.

Prohibiting resale for profit might hurt the value of your PSL longterm, but I didn't buy that puppy to make money from it.

So, if this is an issue that really bothers you, I suggest doing the following:

1. Leave a comment at the article. Doesn't need to be a long comment, but something short that adds to the conversation and is preferably polite and logical. Just something that shows publicly you care.
2. Click on the "Email This" link at the bottom of the article.
3. Email it to "Fanfeedback@HoustonTexans.com" Be sure to leave them your real email and name, and a brief polite comment about the topic. (As a bonus, I think they are giving away Andre Johnson minihelmets to people sending stuff to fanfeedback--don't know the cutoff date off the top of my head).
4. Spread the word to those who you think might be interested in this.



:texflag:

Double Barrel
11-20-2007, 10:54 AM
Aren't there legal issues with regards to the PSL agreements that prevent the Texans from canceling accounts to sell to hometown fans?

I've been told that, as a binding contract, there is little the Texans can do to force people to give up PSLs unless they have violated team policy.

Maybe this NFL angle will change some things. The front row of our section (500s) is always a fan rotation, and usually opposing teams' fans at that. Seems to me that the Texans would want a) 100% Texans fans in the Bull Pen, and b) Texans fans on the front row of every section to represent and inspire the crowd support.

To borrow a quote from Vinny, it seems like the Houston Texans is a marketing company with a football division sometimes.

Texans_Chick
11-20-2007, 11:12 AM
Aren't there legal issues with regards to the PSL agreements that prevent the Texans from canceling accounts to sell to hometown fans?

I've been told that, as a binding contract, there is little the Texans can do to force people to give up PSLs unless they have violated team policy.

Maybe this NFL angle will change some things. The front row of our section (500s) is always a fan rotation, and usually opposing teams' fans at that. Seems to me that the Texans would want a) 100% Texans fans in the Bull Pen, and b) Texans fans on the front row of every section to represent and inspire the crowd support.

To borrow a quote from Vinny, it seems like the Houston Texans is a marketing company with a football division sometimes.


You know, I am not sure I can find my PSL agreement handy. You can write just about anything you want in a PSL agreement. The Patriots have a team policy that you can't resell your tickets for more than face value.

As for the front rows with opposing fans, I know at least on the field level between the 30s, many of those seats went to F.O.B's. But the bottom rows were open to the public, and unfortunately the ticket brokers often got first dibs.

Yankee_In_TX
11-20-2007, 11:17 AM
If I remember correctly, your PSL agreement says something to the effect you can lose your seat rights for selling for profit. I THINK.

Double Barrel
11-20-2007, 11:18 AM
But the bottom rows were open to the public, and unfortunately the ticket brokers often got first dibs.

When a ticket broker is a team sponsor, I cannot help but wonder if there were deals worked out before the public ever got a chance to buy them.

I hate to say that I don't trust this FO in that way, but I don't.

Yankee_In_TX
11-20-2007, 11:21 AM
When a ticket broker is a team sponsor, I cannot help but wonder if there were deals worked out before the public ever got a chance to buy them.

I hate to say that I don't trust this FO in that way, but I don't.

OT: Our cats, which figured out years ago what door knobs are, will fling themselves up against them when they want in a room. Thank God their little paws can't grip them (no thumbs).

This morning one learned how to pull a cabinet open, that just seems like a problem.

BigWig
11-20-2007, 11:22 AM
If I remember correctly, your PSL agreement says something to the effect you can lose your seat rights for selling for profit. I THINK.

I wish all those ticket gougers I have been looking at would read this! I finally decide to get back to a game and I am getting hosed, especially on Stubhub.

Tedc
11-20-2007, 11:29 AM
I have hated the Texans relationship with Stub Hub since the beginning and I feel that it is harmful to the fan base.

I kinda feel like the Texans are pimping Stub Hub to the fans. There are only two winners in that love triangle and it isn't the PSL holders. By doing so and then telling fans they want to build a "Home Field Advantage" is hypocritical at best.

Money is the all important force in play here and the Texans are showing what is most important to them.

Silver Oak
11-20-2007, 11:54 AM
I will say it was disheartening to look into the Bullpen on Sunday and see all of the black and gold jerseys seated in there. Rough estimate from my seat, but I would guess 15% Saints fans were in that area.

Texans_Chick
11-20-2007, 12:07 PM
So many great comments here re: the official relationship, opposing fans in the BullPen.

PLEASE put them over at the FanHouse site and email that article to the Texans. I'd love to hear any responses you get. (I know the site asks for your email but it's just to approve your comment to avoid spam).

The Texans care what fans think about what they are doing, but sometimes with issues of money, they have to be called out some publicly.

AOL FanHouse is the #1 Sports Blog on the internet and I know it is read by tons of people in the league and in radio and TV.

I don't ask for comments very often, and only when I think that maybe we can make a difference. That's what fans do--individuals working together for a common purpose can make a difference.

TxDavid
11-20-2007, 02:05 PM
Well I dug up my PSL agreement, and there is nothing in regards to revocation in regards to selling the tickets for profit. But there was in regards to the PSL itself, and distribution of the tickets under Section 7b, 7c, & 7d.. Here's the verbiage from the PSL agreement:

7. REPRESENTATIONS OF LICENSEE. Licensee hereby represents and warrants as follows:

(a) Licensee has read and understands the terms of the Permanent Seat License Agreement including this Exhibit B;

(b) Licensee is not acquiring this PSL as an investment and has no expectation of profit as an owner of this PSL;

(c) Licensee is acquiring this PSL solely for the right to purchase tickets to Team football games played in the Stadium;

(d) Licensee is acquiring this PSL for Licensee's own use and not with a view to the distribution of this PSL or tickets to others;

(e) Licensee acknowledges that the transfer of this PSL will be restricted and that PSLs are subject to forfeiture under certain conditions including those explained in this agreement.

Texans_Chick
11-20-2007, 02:08 PM
Well I dug up my PSL agreement, and there is nothing in regards to revocation in regards to selling the tickets for profit. But there was in regards to the PSL itself, and distribution of the tickets under Section 7b, 7c, & 7d.. Here's the verbiage from the PSL agreement:

7. REPRESENTATIONS OF LICENSEE. Licensee hereby represents and warrants as follows:

(a) Licensee has read and understands the terms of the Permanent Seat License Agreement including this Exhibit B;

(b) Licensee is not acquiring this PSL as an investment and has no expectation of profit as an owner of this PSL;

(c) Licensee is acquiring this PSL solely for the right to purchase tickets to Team football games played in the Stadium;

(d) Licensee is acquiring this PSL for Licensee's own use and not with a view to the distribution of this PSL or tickets to others;

(e) Licensee acknowledges that the transfer of this PSL will be restricted and that PSLs are subject to forfeiture under certain conditions including those explained in this agreement.


So what are those forfeiture conditions?

So many of the best seats in Reliant are held by brokers. It is sad.

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:27 PM
You know, I am not sure I can find my PSL agreement handy. You can write just about anything you want in a PSL agreement. The Patriots have a team policy that you can't resell your tickets for more than face value.

As for the front rows with opposing fans, I know at least on the field level between the 30s, many of those seats went to F.O.B's. But the bottom rows were open to the public, and unfortunately the ticket brokers often got first dibs.

Texans chick, the difference in the texans and the pats is they don't have psls. The fans didn't have to help fund the stadium. Mr Craft dug deep into his own pockets. The PSL owners and the rodeo helped fund this stadium so I feel anyone that did this should be able to do what they please with their tickets. Those people that are on the waiting list...let them wait. The Texans announced long before the Texans started playing here that tickets were available. You haven't seen anything yet..wait until this team starts hitting the playoffs on a regular basis. I still cannot understand you and a few more posters in here worrying about fans that don't have seats that want seats. As long as you have yours you should be happy and support our team. They missed out...but they do have a few things to do to get in the stadium...ebay, stubhub, another losing season or you can give them your tickets. Whatever the NFL comes up with, you can bet that the NFL sees money in it for them to to even be bothered with it.

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:33 PM
I wish all those ticket gougers I have been looking at would read this! I finally decide to get back to a game and I am getting hosed, especially on Stubhub.

Big not to be a wiseguy, but i know you aren't whining. You had tickets and sold them and i bet you made a little something off of them. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOT SOLD YOUR PSL.:shades:

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:37 PM
I will say it was disheartening to look into the Bullpen on Sunday and see all of the black and gold jerseys seated in there. Rough estimate from my seat, but I would guess 15% Saints fans were in that area.

I have Texans cheerleaders directly in front of me..if action pauses on the field I watch them..not the bullpen fans..get real! Maybe I don't understand but it just seems like u guys are in other peoples business again.

Hardcore Texan
11-20-2007, 02:38 PM
You know, I am not sure I can find my PSL agreement handy. You can write just about anything you want in a PSL agreement. The Patriots have a team policy that you can't resell your tickets for more than face value.

As for the front rows with opposing fans, I know at least on the field level between the 30s, many of those seats went to F.O.B's. But the bottom rows were open to the public, and unfortunately the ticket brokers often got first dibs.

Who is policing this I wonder? Because it is happening all over Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-PATRIOTS-STEELERS-TICKETS-SRO-GILLETTE-STADIUM-12-9_W0QQitemZ230194161354QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16122QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-England-Patriots-tickets-vs-New-york-Jets-Endzone_W0QQitemZ120186312637QQihZ002QQcategoryZ16 122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:44 PM
Who is policing this I wonder? Because it is happening all over Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-PATRIOTS-STEELERS-TICKETS-SRO-GILLETTE-STADIUM-12-9_W0QQitemZ230194161354QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16122QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-England-Patriots-tickets-vs-New-york-Jets-Endzone_W0QQitemZ120186312637QQihZ002QQcategoryZ16 122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

No one is policing it...it takes to much time and money to do that. The texans have their money and could careless. I really doesn't bother me at all because...I GOT MINE! Hardcore someone is going to pay that money too. Texans fans that don't have tickets have been getting tickets for little or nothing for the last 5 years. If I can make a initial investment then why should me or anyone else care if they have to pay extra. I think the texans see it that way...a $66 dollar seat for the psl owner is $75 for the person that wanted to wait and see.

Yankee_In_TX
11-20-2007, 02:48 PM
Who is policing this I wonder? Because it is happening all over Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-PATRIOTS-STEELERS-TICKETS-SRO-GILLETTE-STADIUM-12-9_W0QQitemZ230194161354QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16122QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-England-Patriots-tickets-vs-New-york-Jets-Endzone_W0QQitemZ120186312637QQihZ002QQcategoryZ16 122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I believe the Patriots are using a never enforced MA state law to sue Stub Hub.

And just because it's against policy doesn't mean people don't do it :-P

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:51 PM
This Thread .....Deja vu.

Double Barrel
11-20-2007, 02:53 PM
(d) Licensee is acquiring this PSL for Licensee's own use and not with a view to the distribution of this PSL or tickets to others;

(e) Licensee acknowledges that the transfer of this PSL will be restricted and that PSLs are subject to forfeiture under certain conditions including those explained in this agreement.

(d) seems pretty clear to me that what ticket brokers are doing is against the PSL regulations. I doubt the Texans will do anything to a team sponsor, though.

(e) could easily be invoked if (d) was being violated. JMO.

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:54 PM
I believe the Patriots are using a never enforced MA state law to sue Stub Hub.

And just because it's against policy doesn't mean people don't do it :-P

Yankee, Carolina has a law that limits the amount that NC residents can bid over the face value. Once the price reaches a certain percentage over the face value, they are not able to bid on it. I doubt that happens here though.

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 02:57 PM
(d) seems pretty clear to me that what ticket brokers are doing is against the PSL regulations. I doubt the Texans will do anything to a team sponsor, though.

(e) could easily be invoked if (d) was being violated. JMO.

Right double barrel because the Texans already have their dough. I have dealt in the second hand markets buying a selling and it does serve a purpose. I am all for it because i do like to make road trips.

Texan_Bill
11-20-2007, 02:57 PM
Just curious though, if the Texans and Stub-Hub were only married out of convenience with no real support dollars, then we could raise some he77 about it and actually force the Texans to enforce their own rules that we (we being both parties) agreed to.

As far as real sponsors, I doubt many are selling tickets at a profit and would suspect, that their ticket packages were included with their sponsorship(s).

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 03:00 PM
Just curious though, if the Texans and Stub-Hub were only married out of convenience with no real support dollars, then we could raise some he77 about it and actually force the Texans to enforce their own rules that we (we being both parties) agreed to.

As far as real sponsors, I doubt many are selling tickets at a profit and would suspect, that their ticket packages were included with their sponsorship(s).

Bill good luck but I don't have that kind of time to care about other fans without tickets. I got mines. I have sold tickets to opposing fans and they pay a lot better...lol..I have also bought tickets from opposing fans and dug deep in my pockets.

SheTexan
11-20-2007, 03:38 PM
Good read TC. I remember a few years back when the Pats revoked a guys tickets because he sold them on E-Bay. He had been a season ticket holder for somewhere around 20 yrs or so, had NEVER missed a home game, and a supposed diehard Pats fan. His wife booked a cruise, I think, so he sold his tickets to one game on the net. They caught him, and his PSLs became history. I read at one time, several yrs ago, that he was suing the Pats to get his tickets back. Never found out the results of that battle.

Is there a list of OFFICIAL Texan sponsers anywhere? There are dozens of corp owned seats around me, in the Bullpen. These seats are usually occupied by opposing teams fans. I would like to contact them myself and politely ask them to make a deal with the Texans to trade those seats for seats elsewhere in the stadium, so those seats can become available to Texan fans, esp those who WANT to be in the Bullpen. Sunday there were almost two FULL rows of Saints fans in the lower section of 116. There were three Saints fans on row B, on the isle. The fellow told me he is a TEXAN fan when we don't play the Saints, Titans, or Cowboys. GO FIGURE!!! :bat: I would really like to know how many PSLs in the Bullpen are owned by brokers or corporations. My guess is 50%.

hollywood_texan
11-20-2007, 03:47 PM
Something to think about, what if the Texans clamp down on all this activity and the games are no longer sell outs?

You guys are assuming Texan fans are going to:

A. Immediately purchase all of these available seats, and

B. Go to the game and spend the same amount of money on concessions.

You guys are expecting the Texans to turn away business with the expectation that the fan base will come through spending the same amount of money or more.

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 03:50 PM
Good read TC. I remember a few years back when the Pats revoked a guys tickets because he sold them on E-Bay. He had been a season ticket holder for somewhere around 20 yrs or so, had NEVER missed a home game, and a supposed diehard Pats fan. His wife booked a cruise, I think, so he sold his tickets to one game on the net. They caught him, and his PSLs became history. I read at one time, several yrs ago, that he was suing the Pats to get his tickets back. Never found out the results of that battle.

Is there a list of OFFICIAL Texan sponsers anywhere? There are dozens of corp owned seats around me, in the Bullpen. These seats are usually occupied by opposing teams fans. I would like to contact them myself and politely ask them to make a deal with the Texans to trade those seats for seats elsewhere in the stadium, so those seats can become available to Texan fans, esp those who WANT to be in the Bullpen. Sunday there were almost two FULL rows of Saints fans in the lower section of 116. There were three Saints fans on row B, on the isle. The fellow told me he is a TEXAN fan when we don't play the Saints, Titans, or Cowboys. GO FIGURE!!! :bat: I would really like to know how many PSLs in the Bullpen are owned by brokers or corporations. My guess is 50%.

She Texan I doubt that it is 50%. If a smart broker wanted to make money he would've bought the better sideline seats or clubhouse seats because those are the more desireable seats.

ubecool454
11-20-2007, 03:53 PM
Something to think about, what if the Texans clamp down on all this activity and the games are no longer sell outs?

You guys are assuming Texan fans are going to:

A. Immediately purchase all of these available seats, and

B. Go to the game and spend the same amount of money on concessions.

You guys are expecting the Texans to turn away business with the expectation that the fan base will come through spending the same amount of money or more.

Good point Hollywood_texan.

Texan_Bill
11-20-2007, 04:06 PM
Something to think about, what if the Texans clamp down on all this activity and the games are no longer sell outs?

You guys are assuming Texan fans are going to:

A. Immediately purchase all of these available seats, and

B. Go to the game and spend the same amount of money on concessions.

You guys are expecting the Texans to turn away business with the expectation that the fan base will come through spending the same amount of money or more.

Quit trying to be a voice of reason.... No seriously thats a good point.

To mitigate that from happening, I would start with the Bull Pen section and use that as a litmus test, but no more than that - at any given time..

You're right, that could backfire otherwise.

hollywood_texan
11-20-2007, 04:20 PM
Well I dug up my PSL agreement, and there is nothing in regards to revocation in regards to selling the tickets for profit. But there was in regards to the PSL itself, and distribution of the tickets under Section 7b, 7c, & 7d.. Here's the verbiage from the PSL agreement:

7. REPRESENTATIONS OF LICENSEE. Licensee hereby represents and warrants as follows:

(a) Licensee has read and understands the terms of the Permanent Seat License Agreement including this Exhibit B;

(b) Licensee is not acquiring this PSL as an investment and has no expectation of profit as an owner of this PSL;

(c) Licensee is acquiring this PSL solely for the right to purchase tickets to Team football games played in the Stadium;

(d) Licensee is acquiring this PSL for Licensee's own use and not with a view to the distribution of this PSL or tickets to others;

(e) Licensee acknowledges that the transfer of this PSL will be restricted and that PSLs are subject to forfeiture under certain conditions including those explained in this agreement.

I just called the Texans and talked to a guy that went up the food chain regarding this whole issue and the section from the PSL you cited above.

First, regarding Section 7 of the PSL agreement, that has nothing to do with selling game tickets in any way shape or form.

Second, the Texans do not have any legal mechanism to prevent any ticketholder from selling their tickets except for applicable laws. Meaning, selling tickets on the grounds of Reliant Stadium.

It was basically explained that the Texans right now are not in the position to dictate which season ticketholders they want. See my previous post on that.

Bottom line, I don't think the Texans can prevent this and at this time they would probably be losing revenue if they tried to implement something similar to what you guys are looking for.

Double Barrel
11-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Something to think about, what if the Texans clamp down on all this activity and the games are no longer sell outs?

You guys are assuming Texan fans are going to:

A. Immediately purchase all of these available seats, and

B. Go to the game and spend the same amount of money on concessions.

You guys are expecting the Texans to turn away business with the expectation that the fan base will come through spending the same amount of money or more.

I honestly don't expect the Texans to do crap, even if they had legal recourse. One, these are paid for seats, and two, they don't want to risk a black out in the home market because of the advertising dollars (not to mention the public relations hit).

I just called the Texans and talked to a guy that went up the food chain regarding this whole issue and the section from the PSL you cited above.

First, regarding Section 7 of the PSL agreement, that has nothing to do with selling game tickets in any way shape or form.

Second, the Texans do not have any legal mechanism to prevent any ticketholder from selling their tickets except for applicable laws. Meaning, selling tickets on the grounds of Reliant Stadium.

It was basically explained that the Texans right now are not in the position to dictate which season ticketholders they want. See my previous post on that.

Bottom line, I don't think the Texans can prevent this and at this time they would probably be losing revenue if they tried to implement something similar to what you guys are looking for.

This is pretty much what I've been told in the past. They cannot prevent it, and they wouldn't prevent it even if they could.

The only thing that will change this is winning, because then bandwagon Houston fans would be willing to pay those high scalper prices. Even then, expect to never have all Texans fans in the Bull Pen, and the ration of Texans fans to opposing fans will fluctuate with the win/loss record.

Texans_Chick
11-20-2007, 04:44 PM
Just curious though, if the Texans and Stub-Hub were only married out of convenience with no real support dollars, then we could raise some he77 about it and actually force the Texans to enforce their own rules that we (we being both parties) agreed to.

As far as real sponsors, I doubt many are selling tickets at a profit and would suspect, that their ticket packages were included with their sponsorship(s).

The article I linked to said that teams have mid to high six figure deals with reselling companies.

But once the national deal is in place, it is not suppose to interfere with local rules prohibiting resale for profit. So the Patriots can continue trying to get the tickets out of the hands of brokers.

What I wonder is whether the Texans will be required to give our personal information to the new sponsor, and whether down the road they could opt out.

Yankee_In_TX
11-20-2007, 05:54 PM
Second, the Texans do not have any legal mechanism to prevent any ticketholder from selling their tickets except for applicable laws.


Except yoinking your PSL, no PSL, no tickets the next year. Not saying they should would or will, just saying they can.

Joe Texan
11-20-2007, 06:02 PM
I have discussed this with the Texans and as of right now the State of Texas has no laws on scalping and untill they do the Texans will not do anything. Going to the Texans is the wrong answer. You need to hit the people living off of our money in the capitol. Every politician is a crook and the scalpers have bought them.

hollywood_texan
11-20-2007, 06:23 PM
Except yoinking your PSL, no PSL, no tickets the next year. Not saying they should would or will, just saying they can.

Like I said, I called the Texans and talked to guy that went to the Legal Deptartment about this issue and specifically Section 7 of the PSL agreement.

I asked directly, "is there any mechanism the Texans could use in the PSL agreement or any other contract to pull someone's PSL if they sell tickets for a profit?" The guy said, there is no legal contract or language to pull that off against a season ticketholder.

He went on futher to say that Texas does not have any laws to prohibit this transaction unless it's on the stadium grounds.

The Houston Texans cannot yank anyone's PSL for selling their tickets, unless maybe they do it on stadium grounds.

Yankee_In_TX
11-20-2007, 06:32 PM
Like I said, I called the Texans and talked to guy that went to the Legal Deptartment about this issue and specifically Section 7 of the PSL agreement.

I asked directly, "is there any mechanism the Texans could use in the PSL agreement or any other contract to pull someone's PSL if they sell tickets for a profit?" The guy said, there is no legal contract or language to pull that off against a season ticketholder.

He went on futher to say that Texas does not have any laws to prohibit this transaction unless it's on the stadium grounds.

The Houston Texans cannot yank anyone's PSL for selling their tickets, unless maybe they do it on stadium grounds.

That's ok, but I'm telling you basic first year law student contracts theory. The contract says what it says. "Forfeiture" means "forfeiture" means "forfeiture."

And if you talked to Greg, well, who knows what their PR answer is. If you didn't, well, they fibbed about their position, lol.

In practice the ONLY situation I could see them yanking PSL's is if you sell them to Bob. Bob gets banned from Reliant for whatever. The next week you sell to Sue. Sue gets banned from Reliant for whatever. Week three you show up, also getting tossed out of the game. I bet they'd yank the PSL for repeated behavioral stuff.

Joe Texan
11-20-2007, 06:51 PM
The texans can yank your ticket, or psl whenever they feel it necessary. They have no position on scalping though.

Speedy
11-20-2007, 07:25 PM
Wait until you buy tickets from one of these "brokers", StubHub, Ticket Attractions, Ebay, whatever, you have the original ticket in hand, and when you get it scanned to enter the stadium a big STOP shows up on the scanner, like happened to me at an Astros game this past season. Come to find out, the original owner of the tickets, after he sold them to me via StubHub, sold those same tickets again by going to his online account and e-mailing them to the 2nd buyer, which voided my tickets.

I just don't get this ticket "broker" game. You go online to one of these sites and click on any game, and there's thousands of tickets available. Yet you try to buy tickets directly from the team, and there's none available, or they're sold out.

Trying to buy opening day tickets to the Astros and less than 2 minutes after the tickets go on sale, they're sold out?? Yet I immediately go to Ticket Attractions and there's thousands of tickets to that game, but at a ridiculously higher price. That's just freaking insane and wrong, and yes, something needs to be done to get that under control.

DoCRoN
11-20-2007, 08:06 PM
OT: Our cats, which figured out years ago what door knobs are, will fling themselves up against them when they want in a room. Thank God their little paws can't grip them (no thumbs).

This morning one learned how to pull a cabinet open, that just seems like a problem.

You're lucky you have round doorknobs. Imagine having said cat and door handles like these:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q303/ronpga/doorhandle.jpg

It can definitely prove challenging (for us, not the cat)!!!!

Hardcore Texan
11-20-2007, 08:50 PM
Wait until you buy tickets from one of these "brokers", StubHub, Ticket Attractions, Ebay, whatever, you have the original ticket in hand, and when you get it scanned to enter the stadium a big STOP shows up on the scanner, like happened to me at an Astros game this past season. Come to find out, the original owner of the tickets, after he sold them to me via StubHub, sold those same tickets again by going to his online account and e-mailing them to the 2nd buyer, which voided my tickets.

I just don't get this ticket "broker" game. You go online to one of these sites and click on any game, and there's thousands of tickets available. Yet you try to buy tickets directly from the team, and there's none available, or they're sold out.

Trying to buy opening day tickets to the Astros and less than 2 minutes after the tickets go on sale, they're sold out?? Yet I immediately go to Ticket Attractions and there's thousands of tickets to that game, but at a ridiculously higher price. That's just freaking insane and wrong, and yes, something needs to be done to get that under control.

Wow, that does suck. It sucks that people would scam someone out of the hard earned dollars.


As far as jacked up ticket prices go if you want to go to a game, you just have to accept it. I have been to 4 games at Reliant and I had to pay between 2x and 3x face value all but once. It sucks, but I realize if I wanted to go that's what I had to do. That's why I found a way to afford PSL's off of someone this year (and thankfully he was a fellow Texans fan or maybe thankfully I was), at least I will never pay over face again.

And is just not sports, my wife took our then 9 yr old daughter to see Hannah Montana and we paid out the nose for that birthday present. It would be nice if it was fair and all the brokers didn't swoop in and buy everything up creating this secondary market, but unless you are a broker the rest of us are left dealing with it.

StarStruck
11-21-2007, 01:00 AM
I can see both sides, especially after losing out by a few minutes of buying tickets for Celine Dion's concert at Toyota Center January 09 when they went on sale on Monday. However, as long as I have to pay $7.00 for a bottle of domestic beer and $8.00 for a baked potato, I am reluctant to complain about Joe Blow selling a $56 ticket for $75 that he had to commit to months ago whether he was going to the game or not.

Yankee_In_TX
11-21-2007, 09:46 AM
You're lucky you have round doorknobs. Imagine having said cat and door handles like these:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q303/ronpga/doorhandle.jpg

It can definitely prove challenging (for us, not the cat)!!!!

Yikes, that would be a losing battle for us.

Tedc
11-21-2007, 01:35 PM
I can see both sides, especially after losing out by a few minutes of buying tickets for Celine Dion

Dude, you lost me at Celine Dion.

Buffi2
11-21-2007, 02:00 PM
Here is the answer I received from the Texans regarding the reselling of PSL's and opposing team fans in the bullpen.

Thank you for your email and support of the Houston Texans! We appreciate your feedback regarding the reselling of tickets. We cannot control what season ticket holders decide to do with their tickets once they have purchased them. We sell our remaining tickets through Ticketmaster and we can not guarantee which fans purchase these tickets. Stubhub is one of our sponsors but we do not sell them any tickets it is strictly advertising. The tickets you find on there are from season ticket holders. We would like the Stadium to be filled with Texans fans to create and maintain the home field advantage and we think the Stadium is one of the best when it is filled with Texans fans. Thank you and have a great Thanksgiving!

There you have it - :gun:

Yankee_In_TX
11-21-2007, 02:02 PM
Dude, you lost me at Celine Dion.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l285/zykw78/gay/55.jpg

(pretend I PS'ed it to say Celine)

Tedc
11-21-2007, 02:04 PM
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l285/zykw78/gay/55.jpg

(pretend I PS'ed it to say Celine)

Not that there is anything wrong with it.

SheTexan
11-21-2007, 02:26 PM
One of the most electrifying concerts I have ever been to was Celine Dion. I saw her perform at the old Compaq center before it became the BIG church, and I can guarantee you, that performance was enjoyed tremendously by both sexes. She has an unbeliveable GOD given talent, and she definitely gives you the most for your money.

I remember buying tickets to a Backstreet Boys concert from some broker. Paid a TON of money for them because my girls wanted to go so bad. Great concert, but I have hearing loss to this day, due to that concert, and that is NO joke. I had total hearing loss in my right ear for three days after that concert and never regained it all back.

Sorry if I got off topic! Just thinking about ticket brokers. :texflag:

Texan_Bill
11-21-2007, 02:38 PM
I guess I could go to a Celine Dion concert in the same way I could go to say, a Rod Stewart concert.......... to pick up chicks... :pirate:

Mean Machine
11-21-2007, 09:08 PM
I heard from a reliable source that 20% of the Texans' season ticket holders are scalpers. Apparently, when 2001 rolled around and the Texans season tickets first went on sale, the scalpers pounced on the psl's and the tickets.

Sunday's game with all the aints fans there was embarassing to the organization. I would have really liked the opportunity to get a response to the opposing teams fans making up almost 1/3rd of our stadium from Mr McNair.

Something has GOT to be done about this, the WE ARE THE HOMEFIELD ADVANTAGE is meaningless when true Texans fans can't get tickets because so many are held by scalpers and they re-sell them at outlandish prices.

The Texans can easily go thru and determine who owns what tickets with nothing more than a phone campaign and address verification program.

If they want this to stop, they have the means availble to do it.

Yankee_In_TX
11-21-2007, 09:11 PM
I honeslty wonder, if you swipped every ticket broker's (let's define that as 10 or more PSL's that you only ever resell) seat, and offered them to Houston fans (someone who will only resell when they can't make a game, out of towners included) - what % would sell.

TEXANSTAILGATER
11-22-2007, 08:31 AM
I got this form letter, too! It's bullsh*t!

Thank you for your email and support of the Houston Texans! We appreciate your feedback regarding the reselling of tickets. We cannot control what season ticket holders decide to do with their tickets once they have purchased them. We sell our remaining tickets through Ticketmaster and we can not guarantee which fans purchase these tickets. Stubhub is one of our sponsors but we do not sell them any tickets it is strictly advertising. The tickets you find on there are from season ticket holders. We would like the Stadium to be filled with Texans fans to create and maintain the home field advantage and we think the Stadium is one of the best when it is filled with Texans fans. Thank you and have a great Thanksgiving!



GO TEXANS!

StarStruck
11-25-2007, 07:54 PM
I heard from a reliable source that 20% of the Texans' season ticket holders are scalpers. Apparently, when 2001 rolled around and the Texans season tickets first went on sale, the scalpers pounced on the psl's and the tickets.

It's been over six years so my memory could be fading, but if I recall correctly, those PSLs were on sale for quite a while. Seems that I took a few days maybe even a couple of weeks to decide which section I wanted to purchase. One thing I have learned when it comes to purchasing tickets is having your mind made up by the time they become available, then act.

:offtopic If Celine Dion's "A New Day" becomes available on DVD, it would be well worth the purchase. After seeing that concert in Vegas, I felt I owed the lady some more money.

hollywood_texan
11-26-2007, 12:22 PM
I honeslty wonder, if you swipped every ticket broker's (let's define that as 10 or more PSL's that you only ever resell) seat, and offered them to Houston fans (someone who will only resell when they can't make a game, out of towners included) - what % would sell.

Probably not many is my opinion.

For the last two seasons, I have been selling some games I couldn't use. Typically, in the past, I would just give away all tickets to family/friends. Without getting into sorted details, I noticed people really wanted certain games and avoided other games even though they were free. Further, there were some other personal issues that really are not relevant to this discussion.

Point is, most of the people I know, are not Texans fans.

So, starting last year, I started selling tickets on ebay. The big draw teams, Bears, Chiefs, Cowboys, Titans, and so on, draw the best sells on ebay. I ask very nicely of the people that win my auctions what team they are rooting for, Texan fans are maybe 40% on the tickets I have sold.

Furthermore, I have found that opposing fans going to Reliant are willing to pay more money for tickets. That is my experience from posting available tickets on this board and selling tickets on ebay.

To bring this home, I have auctions for my seats on ebay at FACE VALUE WITH NO SHIPPING COSTS/NO RESERVE for the Tampa Bay game. I am getting e-mails from people that when the tickets don't sell, they'll buy them for below face. It probably won't come to that, but there is very little interest in these tickets compared to high draw teams.

FYI, I have 6 seats on the aisle, 3 rows from the field, next to the Bull Pen. These are great seats and sold for a very high premium for the Titans game!

Bottom line, if you want to sell out Reliant, you are going to have to have opposing fans there in force.

whiskeyrbl
11-26-2007, 12:32 PM
Here is the answer I received from the Texans regarding the reselling of PSL's and opposing team fans in the bullpen.



There you have it - :gun:
Got the exact same response

Specnatz
12-05-2007, 11:11 PM
Bob, from what I can tell no one as any problem with that what so ever. You are not a corporation that has a lot of parking passes and seats. that is the only thing that I can tell people hate.

Every time I buy tickets I try and see if I can get them under face value off ebay. If I was going to goto the Siants or Titans game I know I would have to pay through the nose for them. I think that is the thing that is confussing everyone.

Idividual - that would be you and Holloywood
Corporation - http://stores.ebay.com/I-AM-A-HOUSTON-TEXAN

You making a little profit fine, corporation designed to screw the fans and the Texans letting them BAD!!

Like Bill said before he would love to move up but he cant because of a company like the one I posted has them so he is SOL.

hollywood_texan
12-07-2007, 10:49 AM
Bob, from what I can tell no one as any problem with that what so ever. You are not a corporation that has a lot of parking passes and seats. that is the only thing that I can tell people hate.

Every time I buy tickets I try and see if I can get them under face value off ebay. If I was going to goto the Siants or Titans game I know I would have to pay through the nose for them. I think that is the thing that is confussing everyone.

Idividual - that would be you and Holloywood
Corporation - http://stores.ebay.com/I-AM-A-HOUSTON-TEXAN

You making a little profit fine, corporation designed to screw the fans and the Texans letting them BAD!!

Like Bill said before he would love to move up but he cant because of a company like the one I posted has them so he is SOL.


You are assuming there are Texan fans that will step up and be on the hook every year for season tickets regarding tickets that are vacated by the corporate scalpers.

I suspect that if the Texans eliminated the scalping issue you guys are so upset about, Reliant wouldn't be a sell out.

At some point, could these scalpers walk away? They have to be taking a bath on Texan tickets if their sole purpose is to make a monetary profit on their investment.

A guy like me must really annoy them, I put my tickets up at face or little less, with no reserve and free shipping. From some perspective, I am actually screwing the scalpers because I am further diluting the market at a cheaper price.

Texans_Chick
12-07-2007, 11:59 AM
You are assuming there are Texan fans that will step up and be on the hook every year for season tickets regarding tickets that are vacated by the corporate scalpers.

I suspect that if the Texans eliminated the scalping issue you guys are so upset about, Reliant wouldn't be a sell out.

At some point, could these scalpers walk away? They have to be taking a bath on Texan tickets if their sole purpose is to make a monetary profit on their investment.

A guy like me must really annoy them, I put my tickets up at face or little less, with no reserve and free shipping. From some perspective, I am actually screwing the scalpers because I am further diluting the market at a cheaper price.


I am guessing every field level ticket currently owned by scalpers would easily be purchased by an individual season ticket holder. There is a wait list a mile long for the bottom level.

A ticket broker friend says he makes plenty of money off of the Texans. Not as much as he would if they were doing well, but he is doing fine.

Hardcore Texan
12-07-2007, 01:52 PM
I am guessing every field level ticket currently owned by scalpers would easily be purchased by an individual season ticket holder. There is a wait list a mile long for the bottom level.
A ticket broker friend says he makes plenty of money off of the Texans. Not as much as he would if they were doing well, but he is doing fine.

I believe if this was done they would sell out in heartbeat, for field level PSL's only, as you stated. The best way to get field level PSL's is to find an individual that wants to sell. That's what I had to do and I had to pay 70% over face for them too. Other than that you will rot away on the waiting list. Texans' fans would jump on them for face value.

I am with Bob and Hollywood as well. I live out of town and with small kids I can't make it to every home game, and the ones I can't I try to make a little money of my investment back. That's the only way I could talk the wife into it.....LOL. And most of the time I am lucky to get face value.

Specnatz
12-07-2007, 02:27 PM
I believe if this was done they would sell out in heartbeat, for field level PSL's only, as you stated. The best way to get field level PSL's is to find an individual that wants to sell. That's what I had to do and I had to pay 70% over face for them too. Other than that you will rot away on the waiting list. Texans' fans would jump on them for face value.

I am with Bob and Hollywood as well. I live out of town and with small kids I can't make it to every home game, and the ones I can't I try to make a little money of my investment back. That's the only way I could talk the wife into it.....LOL. And most of the time I am lucky to get face value.

This is where the argument gets skewed. I have not seen one person, NOT ONE, who has objected to you selling your seats, YOUR SEATS. Of course if you could sell to a Texan fan it would be better but if you don't no one is going to hold it against you. HardCore it is about a company that owns a bunch of seats and PSLs that most of us do not like, NOT the individual.

Individual is the key word here, PLEASE understand that.

Hardcore Texan
12-07-2007, 02:36 PM
This is where the argument gets skewed. I have not seen one person, NOT ONE, who has objected to you selling your seats, YOUR SEATS. Of course if you could sell to a Texan fan it would be better but if you don't no one is going to hold it against you. HardCore it is about a company that owns a bunch of seats and PSLs that most of us do not like, NOT the individual.

Individual is the key word here, PLEASE understand that.

Oh, I know, I get it.....sorry if I came off otherwise, I was just chiming in and also agreeing with TC's post that people would jump all over those PSL's. And I totally understand what you are saying, it's all good.

And I know companys have jumped all over every ticket market, I have to pay double face value any time I want to do anything and seem like I always sell my tickets cheaper or at face. (I just got PSL's in the last couple weeks, I had Longhorn season tix up til now, but are not renewing since I found a decent deal with the Texans which is my first team in any sport)

hollywood_texan
12-07-2007, 03:14 PM
I am guessing every field level ticket currently owned by scalpers would easily be purchased by an individual season ticket holder. There is a wait list a mile long for the bottom level.

I am basing my opinion on the experience selling my tickets tickets on ebay, watching the market on ebay, and observations at Reliant for the 2 or 3 games I make every year. Take it for what it's worth in that regard.

But, if you are right, why it is so difficult to sell my tickets at face (with free shipping) on ebay for games at Reliant against teams that don't draw well? My seats are 3 rows from the field and on the aisle. Very nice seats.

I know I am in the endzone, but there just doesn't seem to be that much interest for single game tickets in my experience for certain games. Furthermore, the games that do sell well, it's typically not Texan fans buying my tickets. Again my two year experience.

With that, I am concluding that if Texan fans aren't really interested in my tickets on ebay, I don't think there would be much interest for purchasing PSLs and reuping every year with season tickets.

Not saying I am right and your wrong, but just explaining why I don't think there would be huge run on Texans tickets.


A ticket broker friend says he makes plenty of money off of the Texans. Not as much as he would if they were doing well, but he is doing fine.

I suspect it's a couple games a year that he is making his money and breaking even the rest of the year on the games when opponents at Reliant don't draw well. It's kind of things work out for me for the games I sell.

I would ask a few questions regarding what games are being purchased at a premium and who is doing the purchasing.

It's possible he isn't making his money off of Texans fans.


Personally, I would like to see what would happen if they got rid of all the corporate scalpers just to see what happens to season tickets and if Reliant sells out like it has the first 6 years.

I guess we'll never know...

Hardcore Texan
12-07-2007, 03:21 PM
I am basing my opinion on the experience selling my tickets tickets on ebay, watching the market on ebay, and observations at Reliant for the 2 or 3 games I make every year. Take it for what it's worth in that regard.

But, if you are right, why it is so difficult to sell my tickets at face (with free shipping) on ebay for games at Reliant against teams that don't draw well? My seats are 3 rows from the field and on the aisle. Very nice seats.

I know I am in the endzone, but there just doesn't seem to be that much interest for single game tickets in my experience for certain games. Furthermore, the games that do sell well, it's typically not Texan fans buying my tickets. Again my two year experience.

With that, I am concluding that if Texan fans aren't really interested in my tickets on ebay, I don't think there would be much interest for purchasing PSLs and reuping every year with season tickets.

Not saying I am right and your wrong, but just explaining why I don't think there would be huge run on Texans tickets.



I suspect it's a couple games a year that he is making his money and breaking even the rest of the year on the games when opponents at Reliant don't draw well. It's kind of things work out for me for the games I sell.

I would ask a few questions regarding what games are being purchased at a premium and who is doing the purchasing.

It's possible he isn't making his money off of Texans fans.


Personally, I would like to see what would happen if they got rid of all the corporate scalpers just to see what happens to season tickets and if Reliant sells out like it has the first 6 years.

I guess we'll never know...

I think those LL PSL's would sell because people would see them as investment and hope to break even when they can't be there and hope the team starts to do really well thus causing the market value of the PSL's to go up signigicantly.

My limited experience has been the same as yours with premium games and not breaking even on others, but if we start winning a lot one of the seasons then every game's value will increase. JMHO.