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View Full Version : The OD "fumble"


OzzO
11-18-2007, 09:02 PM
Okay, we were at a winghouse with the sound turned down - so riddle me this.

OD catches the ball, turn to start his run and gets knocked. He falls to the turf and the ball ends up between his arm and side. A Saint comes and gets the ball but then doesn't move too much further (assuming a whistle was blown).

How the heck did the Saints end up with a turnover? I thought Kubiak was gonna bust a vein on the sidelines - I could defintely read his lips.


I think the Bush turnover a the 1 later in the game was a "even steven" call. Nothing in the replay to overturn the call... I'm just saying.

BigTimeTexanFan
11-18-2007, 09:10 PM
I'm a little surprised they didn't move the camera off of Kubiak because I could definately see what he was saying.

drewmar74
11-18-2007, 09:30 PM
I'm a little surprised they didn't move the camera off of Kubiak because I could definately see what he was saying.

I could read his lips, too, and the game wasn't even in HD.

I'm not the biggest proponent of cussing to make a point, but it was awesome to see Gary working the refs over like that.

Specnatz
11-18-2007, 09:32 PM
That was the biggiest joke I have ever seen on a play in my life as far as replay.

what kind of drugs were the refs doing. I am sorry but that was some BS I have never seen in my entire life. My dog who is blind and has alsymers see's better than that crap.

He should be fined and or suspended. It was more obvious than a paris hitlon dress.

mexican_texan
11-18-2007, 09:35 PM
I could read his lips, too, and the game wasn't even in HD.

I'm not the biggest proponent of cussing to make a point, but it was awesome to see Gary working the refs over like that.
I got the game in HD.

Maddict5
11-18-2007, 09:36 PM
did enjoy the make-up call of reggie 'fumbling' at the GL though :)

HardcoreTexan
11-18-2007, 09:42 PM
The Ref's were definatly saints fans....but Texans still got the big victory

TexanSam
11-18-2007, 09:52 PM
The Ref's were definatly saints fans....but Texans still got the big victory

I don't think the refs were favoring one team over another. I hate when fans make that accusation.

shinerbock_girl
11-18-2007, 09:58 PM
I was wondering the same thing, i can buy the fumble thing, but how did the Saints get the ball??? OD fell on it so he was down, the ball was down under him....Seems to me it should have been a recovered fumble...I don't remember the Saints even touching the ball, yet they ended up with it...

HardcoreTexan
11-18-2007, 09:58 PM
I don't think the refs were favoring one team over another. I hate when fans make that accusation.

Some of those calls were just off the wall

Brandon420tx
11-18-2007, 10:01 PM
The Ref's were definatly saints fans....but Texans still got the big victory

A good officiating crew leaves a game hated by both sides. Which seems to be the case today.

Hardcore Texan
11-18-2007, 10:29 PM
Some of those calls were just off the wall

Does anyone here even know that we are different posters on this board?

gwallaia
11-18-2007, 11:17 PM
Some of the Saints fans on the Saints board http://blackandgold.com/forums/ are complaining about the call of the Bush fumble at the one. What goes around comes around coon-asses.

Hervoyel
11-18-2007, 11:39 PM
I thought both fumbles were pretty questionable calls but in both cases I think the call on the field was the determining factor. When they review it they have to see something that clearly contradicts the ruling on the field and in neither case did the reply show them a definitive view of what happened.

Texans_Chick
11-19-2007, 12:03 AM
Sometimes I think in the replay era that if the ball pops out, the refs tend to call it a fumble. Because action can happen after a fumble. They would prefer to call it a fumble and get overturned, than whistle the play dead and screw up what could have happened after the fumble.

But with most fumbles, the whole knee down thing is often inconclusive from the replay.

So the moral of the story is:

Especially in the replay era, hold on to the ball even after you knee hits. Don't give the ref an opportunity to suggest it is a fumble. (Not that I'm beyotching at OD cuz of his busted nose-blood fountain. Very tough performance).

powerfuldragon
11-19-2007, 10:20 AM
did enjoy the make-up call of reggie 'fumbling' at the GL though :)
make up call my foot. that was all hard work on Mario's part.

HOU-TEX
11-19-2007, 10:26 AM
The fumble Mario caused was a bogus call to me. The Saints Olineman and Kalu were rolling around scrapping for the ball with both having their hands on the ball. Yet they give the ball to the Saints even after Cochran comes out of the pile with it.

Crazy, just crazy. Eh, we won and that's all that matters.:texflag:

powerfuldragon
11-19-2007, 10:28 AM
“The thing I’m mad about, first off, is that (TE) Owen (Daniels) blows his nose up on that play. He’s got a broken nose. He’s out. Yes, he did fumble, but my contention was that he had the ball. He had the ball next to his leg with his hand on the ball. The play was over. They did reach down there and grab it away from him. I told (Referee) Mike (Carey) that not only do we think his knee might be down, but he’s got the ball. The play is over. I’ll have to go back and look at it, but I thought that the play was over, the kid was out, and he had the ball next to his side. I thought it should have been our ball. But, obviously they said I was wrong.”

I told (Referee) Mike (Carey) that not only do we think his knee might be down, but he’s got the ball. yes.... yes he did.

GlassHalfFull
11-19-2007, 10:34 AM
I told (Referee) Mike (Carey) that not only do we think his knee might be down, but hes got the ball. yes.... yes he did.

This is the only part I don't like about being at the game. I would have loved to know what the announcers were saying, and it is hard to lip read Kubiak from the 500 level.

Once again, in our rush to get out of the house we forgot to DVR it. Not that there is room on our DVR, because of all the crap my husband has taped.

Mr teX
11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
He fumbled, the ball was coming loose right after he got hit in his nose & just before his right knee hit. It was the right call, it was just one of those bang-bang plays.

The fumble mario caused was the bogus call b/c stinchcomb didn't have posession, if anything Kau had it & Cochran got it from him. The only thing stinchcomb did was fall on Kalu & try to take it from him.

Ole Miss Texan
11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
It was very very close as to if his knee was down before he fumbled. In the end I thought he was down but the ref made the right call on field in real time.

As far as the recovery...the ball clearly is inbetween Daniels' arm and his body touching both at a standstill. Truthfully I don't know if this constitutes "Possession" or not. I'll be the refs couldn't overturn it because they didn't have indisputable evidence that OD actually had possession of the ball. Even if he's laying on top of it doesn't mean he has possession.

I'm okay with the call as it was called on the field...but feel it probably should have been overturned. It was a tough one though.

There were just a lot of bad calls that game...I saw a lot of holding that didn't get called. But like someone said above...I'll take all the bad calls in the world so long as we win!!! All it does is hurt us 'stats' wise that is really overanalyzed and insignificant. As long as it doesn't hurt any of our guys confidence...they will make up for it the next game. Let's go win another!

b0ng
11-19-2007, 11:01 AM
Really and truly, as a fan of Houston sports, you almost have to expect iffy calls to go the way of the other team, until we really start kicking other teams around on a consistent basis. I know a lot of you were here during the Oilers, and there were always bad calls going against the Oilers back then. The Rockets pretty much had the same thing, until Hakeem had been in the league for a good little bit (5+ years). Really, I've just come to expect it, and I just think that the sooner a lot of us come to accept bad officiating, the sooner we'll be able to just enjoy the games on Sundays.

Also, if you think that there's a bad call against houston, drink a beer. Best drinking game ever.

rickyb
11-19-2007, 01:47 PM
I'm a little surprised they didn't move the camera off of Kubiak because I could definately see what he was saying.

He either said:
"That's *********g horse****"

or

"Those pants make your *** look big."


One of the two. My lip reading skills are rusty.

Andrew6
11-19-2007, 01:53 PM
I personally thought it was probably one of the best officiated games I've seen with the Texans playing in a while. I can understand a few bad calls against your team but sometimes they get rediculous.

mridge01
11-19-2007, 02:47 PM
He fumbled, the ball was coming loose right after he got hit in his nose & just before his right knee hit. It was the right call, it was just one of those bang-bang plays.

The fumble mario caused was the bogus call b/c stinchcomb didn't have posession, if anything Kau had it & Cochran got it from him. The only thing stinchcomb did was fall on Kalu & try to take it from him.

Agreed. Regardless of which way the refs call it, these two plays have to be called the same way don't they?

Ckw
11-19-2007, 02:55 PM
All I can say is Kubiak made my dreams come true with the passion he showed after that play. Sometimes Kubiak is just a little to laid back for my tastes. I like knowing that he has a mean side to him and really knows how to let somebody have it. Lets me know he is probably giving his players the same type of thing when they are goofing up.

Mr teX
11-19-2007, 03:05 PM
what is with everyone thinking we need to have a bunch of kyle turleys & bob knights on our team? when mario was struggling last year some said it was b/c he doesn't play with a mean streak/enough fire etc.., & b/c kubes doesn't punch the ref on every bad call, he's a little laid back, or he's letting too much go & not fighting for his players.

I understand the appeal, but that's not our guys' makeup, & not everyone goes about playing/coaching that way.

Double Barrel
11-19-2007, 03:27 PM
He fumbled, the ball was coming loose right after he got hit in his nose & just before his right knee hit. It was the right call, it was just one of those bang-bang plays.

This is what I thought, as well.

Ckw
11-19-2007, 03:46 PM
what is with everyone thinking we need to have a bunch of kyle turleys & bob knights on our team? when mario was struggling last year some said it was b/c he doesn't play with a mean streak/enough fire etc.., & b/c kubes doesn't punch the ref on every bad call, he's a little laid back, or he's letting too much go & not fighting for his players.

I understand the appeal, but that's not our guys' makeup, & not everyone goes about playing/coaching that way.

That's not at all what I was saying. But I do believe a coach needs to have that fire, at least most coaches, to get the job done. Just my opinion. Personally, I love Kubiak. I think he is great for the franchise. My only point was I like seeing him dish it out a little when he really feels something is messed up. I like that. It was a compliment, not a chance for me to bash Kubiak.

Specnatz
11-19-2007, 04:09 PM
This is what I thought, as well.

I thought it was a fumble but I also thought he had his hands around the ball and it was on his leg, that is what irked me off more than anything.

HOU-TEX
11-19-2007, 04:14 PM
I thought it was a fumble but I also thought he had his hands around the ball and it was on his leg, that is what irked me off more than anything.

I thought this as well. He was on the ground with his arm around the ball. I would've called it a fumble recovered by OD downed by contact. At least it didn't cause a loss.

I hope OD heals quickly. I know how a broken nose feels. It'll be tough to breath through it for a while. I reckon he'll keep the shield on his helmet. It obviously doesn't bother his performance. OD's money. :texflag:

RazorOye
11-19-2007, 04:25 PM
The Ref's were definatly saints fans....but Texans still got the big victory

nonsense

if the refs were Saints fans, they could've overturned the Reggie fumble. They could've called a couple of PI penalties on bang-bang plays by the Texans secondary.

The officiating wasn't great.... but it wasn't great for BOTH teams.

Ole Miss Texan
11-19-2007, 04:36 PM
nonsense

if the refs were Saints fans, they could've overturned the Reggie fumble. They could've called a couple of PI penalties on bang-bang plays by the Texans secondary.

The officiating wasn't great.... but it wasn't great for BOTH teams.

*cough*Hutchins in the Endzone*cough*

*cough*Bennet at the end of the game*cough*

both very very close plays...that in the end were phenominal defensive stands.

RazorOye
11-19-2007, 04:42 PM
*cough*Hutchins in the Endzone*cough*

*cough*Bennet at the end of the game*cough*

both very very close plays...that in the end were phenominal defensive stands.

none of which contradicts or disputes my premise:

the refs were not "Saints fans"

to claim such is nonsense

Shaft75
11-19-2007, 04:56 PM
That was the biggiest joke I have ever seen on a play in my life as far as replay.

what kind of drugs were the refs doing. I am sorry but that was some BS I have never seen in my entire life. My dog who is blind and has alsymers see's better than that crap.

He should be fined and or suspended. It was more obvious than a paris hitlon dress.

How much bigger is biggiest than biggest?

I agree with you completely.

I even yelled out to Mike, the head ref, before a kickoff. He actually tried to explain his point to me. Everyone was like wtf, because they usually ignore people. Weird. He kept trying to reassure me that it was the correct call.

I am still fuming over the OD fumble and then the Mario sack-fumble.

dalemurphy
11-19-2007, 05:00 PM
none of which contradicts or disputes my premise:

the refs were not "Saints fans"

to claim such is nonsense


Of course the refs aren't Saints' fans. However, what I think is reality, is a general disrespect of the Texans which sometimes can cause the ref to give the opposing team the benefit of the doubt. We just need to improve and that will change. Certainly, though, it is very frustrating. But, hey, at least it's not the NBA, where preferential treatment is intentional.

RazorOye
11-19-2007, 05:07 PM
Of course the refs aren't Saints' fans. However, what I think is reality, is a general disrespect of the Texans which sometimes can cause the ref to give the opposing team the benefit of the doubt. We just need to improve and that will change. Certainly, though, it is very frustrating. But, hey, at least it's not the NBA, where preferential treatment is intentional.

dale - love the handle - idolized Murphy while growing up and still venerate him as legendary

i disagree completely with the post, though

regardless of intent, the end result - you are claiming - is the same: that the referees (for whatever reason) called the game completely in favor of the Saints

A visit to the Saints board will dispel that quickly

I don't think either team was given preferential treatment

Specnatz
11-19-2007, 05:09 PM
How much bigger is biggiest than biggest?

I agree with you completely.

I even yelled out to Mike, the head ref, before a kickoff. He actually tried to explain his point to me. Everyone was like wtf, because they usually ignore people. Weird. He kept trying to reassure me that it was the correct call.

I am still fuming over the OD fumble and then the Mario sack-fumble.

Geez Hookem needs to add spell check because I would have sworn I hit the back space to delete that "I".

Texan_Bill
11-19-2007, 05:16 PM
dale - love the handle - idolized Murphy while growing up and still venerate him as legendary

i disagree completely with the post, though

regardless of intent, the end result - you are claiming - is the same: that the referees (for whatever reason) called the game completely in favor of the Saints

A visit to the Saints board will dispel that quickly

I don't think either team was given preferential treatment

While I respect your opinion, there is some history with Shaft's buddy' Mike Carey (head referee) and the Texans...

For those Texans fans that dont recall, think 'football move' a couple of years ago..

Hervoyel
11-19-2007, 05:18 PM
If you go around and read other teams boards (which I never did much in the past but have done this season a little more) then you notice a common pattern among fans regardless of the team they are following. "The Refs are against us" and "We always get bad calls against us".

I'm sure you guys all know this already but nobody has a monopoly on bad calls. I think you should just accept that you'll have two or three things in every game that are just a complete travesty and get on with it. That's what the great teams do. They go back to the huddle and come out and get you on the next down. Everybody gets the crummy calls in the NFL (unlike the NBA where some teams and particularly some players get very obvious preferential treatment) and how much it affects your team is a direct reflection of how good they are.

When you start out like the Texans did in 2002 then a false start can kill a drive dead in it's tracks. We seem to have gotten past that.

rickyb
11-19-2007, 09:24 PM
All I can say is Kubiak made my dreams come true with the passion he showed after that play. Sometimes Kubiak is just a little to laid back for my tastes. I like knowing that he has a mean side to him and really knows how to let somebody have it. Lets me know he is probably giving his players the same type of thing when they are goofing up.

You can ask my brother about Kubiak's mean streak. He played high school football against him. NWA v. St Pius. Gave my brother a concussion. My brother was the one doing the sacking, yet somehow, my brother got sacked. Say, Thanksgiving is coming up. I might have to remind my big bro 'bout that one. :specnatz:

False Start
11-19-2007, 09:34 PM
Yeah Kubes was irate after that play as he should have been . It reminded me of myself at the time , and many others watching football . It looks like he had forgotten where he was , and he was going off like he was in front of the TV at home . It was great . Thats why I'm a big OD fan . The guy is tough and is not scared to take a big hit , and how when he does , he jumps up and shows his opponent hes not scared . Hes a top 10 , maybe even top 5 TE IMO . Hes gonna make for one bada** weather man one day ! :tvhorror: :heh: