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View Full Version : Anyone Care to Re-visit the Babin-for-Boulware Trade?


Tulip
11-13-2007, 09:36 PM
Thinking of Morency/Gado got me thinking about Rick's Smith's latest player-for-player trade.

How's that working out for us?

I understand that the Texans were short-handed at safety. And they were a little stacked at the tweener DE/OLB position.

However, and I believe this held true for the Morency/Gado trade as well - that you aren't going to get more help out of a guy who wasn't in training camp with you. So why trade the guy who was? I think this has been especially noticeable with Boulware, who has rarely showed his face outside of special teams.

However, I concede that it's quite possible that Babin could have spent a great number of game days inactive, a la Shantee Orr. So he could have just been wasting a roster spot.

Thoughts? My TV is on the fritz and my new one is too heavy for me to take out of the box, so I need some entertainment this evening.

Allstar
11-13-2007, 09:38 PM
I believe the trade was a wash and I don't think babin has done much in Seattle... so, meh.

But for what it's worth, I think Babin would have produced more here than boulware has.

TEXANRED
11-13-2007, 09:39 PM
Thinking of Morency/Gado got me thinking about Rick's Smith's latest player-for-player trade.

How's that working out for us?

I understand that the Texans were short-handed at safety. And they were a little stacked at the tweener DE/OLB position.

However, and I believe this held true for the Morency/Gado trade as well - that you aren't going to get more help out of a guy who wasn't in training camp with you. So why trade the guy who was? I think this has been especially noticeable with Boulware, who has rarely showed his face outside of special teams.

However, I concede that it's quite possible that Babin could have spent a great number of game days inactive, a la Shantee Orr. So he could have just been wasting a roster spot.

Thoughts? My TV is on the fritz and my new one is too heavy for me to take out of the box, so I need some entertainment this evening.
I dont think Babin has played for the Hawks yet

Tulip
11-13-2007, 09:41 PM
So if Babin hasn't contributed for the Seahawks and Boulware hasn't contributed for the Texans, it seems like it was a negative trade for both teams.

mexican_texan
11-13-2007, 09:44 PM
So if Babin hasn't contributed for the Seahawks and Boulware hasn't contributed for the Texans, it seems like it was a negative trade for both teams.
Except for the fact that Boulware has contributed to the Texans.

bah007
11-13-2007, 09:54 PM
Except for the fact that Boulware has contributed to the Texans.

Boulware has seen the field in all 9 games this year & has 5 tackles.
http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelboulware/gamelogs?id=BOU338982

Babin has only played in 2 games (both blowouts) this year & hasnt recorded any stats.
http://www.nfl.com/players/jasonbabin/gamelogs?id=BAB714004

Allstar
11-13-2007, 09:55 PM
Except for the fact that Boulware has contributed to the Texans.

I assume you are referring to special teams play. He did cause a fumble early on on a kick return I believe. It also seems that when good things happen on ST, he's usually right there. So, yeah, I would agree Boulware has contributed. (except against the Colts)

TheRealJoker
11-13-2007, 10:03 PM
Boulware also blocked an XP or a FG I think.

Tulip
11-13-2007, 10:08 PM
So at this point last year, Babin's stats for the Texans were better than they are this year for the Seahawks and Boulware's were better for the Seahawks than they are this year for the Texans.

I'm thinking that training camp is a good thing.

adam
11-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Babin hasn't produced a whole lot in Seattle. With that said, watching Dallas Clark abuse Boulware just about sums it up for me. I would have kept Babin.

threetoedpete
11-14-2007, 01:26 AM
Tulip just wondering what the point of all of this is. The Guy wasn't kevin Green, was never going to be Kevin Green and we don't run the 3-4 anymore. The guy had hit his ceiling. What we spent to get him, that there thingy was a bust. The sooner he was out the door the sooner the team could lick it's wounds. the fact that we got anything at all for him was a positive for me.

Maddict5
11-14-2007, 09:33 AM
we lost so far.. anyone who says 'oh neither has produced so its a draw' is kidding themselves.. babin would be contributing alot more to us than boulware is

Errant Hothy
11-14-2007, 09:44 AM
we lost so far.. anyone who says 'oh neither has produced so its a draw' is kidding themselves.. babin would be contributing alot more to us than boulware is

How would Babin have contributed?

He was likely to see the field about as much as Shantee Orr has, and that hasn't been enough to do much. He isn't seeing the field in Seattle, a team who runs a system more suited to his playing style and a team that stil needs D-line help.

I'll just add Babin to the overrated former Texans list, he can keep Morency company on it.

Maddict5
11-14-2007, 09:56 AM
How would Babin have contributed?

He was likely to see the field about as much as Shantee Orr has, and that hasn't been enough to do much. He isn't seeing the field in Seattle, a team who runs a system more suited to his playing style and a team that stil needs D-line help.

I'll just add Babin to the overrated former Texans list, he can keep Morency company on it.

because hes a much better de than orr so he
1) would see the field more
2) would be making more impact than orr

he isnt seeing the field in seattle because tapp is a very good pass rusher.. stay in denial if you want but we lost on both the babin and morency trades

Errant Hothy
11-14-2007, 10:06 AM
because hes a much better de than orr so he
1) would see the field more
2) would be making more impact than orr

he isnt seeing the field in seattle because tapp is a very good pass rusher.. stay in denial if you want but we lost on both the babin and morency trades

So you think Babin would see the field more over Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, or Earl Cochran? Sorry as a 4-3 DE Babin would not beat out any of those four. Just like he cannot crack the line-up in Seattle.

As for the Morency trade, we traded a scrub for a another scrub. Green Bay has been so impressed with Morency's play that they the went and traded a draft pick, soemthing that is more valuable then Gado or Morency, for Ryan Grant. Yup, Morency must sure be lighting it up in Green Bay. Atleast we didn't give up a draft pick to get Gado.

beerlover
11-14-2007, 10:08 AM
because hes a much better de than orr so he
1) would see the field more
2) would be making more impact than orr

he isnt seeing the field in seattle because tapp is a very good pass rusher.. stay in denial if you want but we lost on both the babin and morency trades

the Texans lost on both draft picks, different regime, Kubiak/Smith are in still clean-up mode.

Mr teX
11-14-2007, 10:22 AM
Babin hasn't produced a whole lot in Seattle. With that said, watching Dallas Clark abuse Boulware just about sums it up for me. I would have kept Babin.

Clark abuses lots of safeties, you shouldn't hold that against him.

b0ng
11-14-2007, 11:43 AM
Babin was traded so that we could shore up a snake-bitten FS position. If you guys remember, Glenn Earl and Jason Simmons both hurt themselves (Season-ending too, if I remember right) in pre-season. We had too many DE's at the time, and I believe that Jason Babin was just the odd man out.

Boulware has contributed some, but did get badly burned by Dallas Clark. Jason Babin hasn't made it onto the field more than a handful of times. If that. He's just there to be insurance for Tapp going down. He was just a victim of a team needing to grab one position at the expense of another. If he had performed better in his time here, he probably wouldn't have had to worry about such a situation happening.

I see the trade as just a blip on the radar of this season, and I'm really just indifferent as the results haven't impacted anybody so far.

dalemurphy
11-14-2007, 11:51 AM
Boulware, I believe, was more than an attempt to plug a hole this year. I think they like him and see him as someone who can beat out Glenn Earl at SS. Babin was gone after this year, regardless. So, I'd say the can't be graded yet.

Maddict5
11-14-2007, 12:02 PM
So you think Babin would see the field more over Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, or Earl Cochran? Sorry as a 4-3 DE Babin would not beat out any of those four. Just like he cannot crack the line-up in Seattle.

yep just like he did last year.. and was playing even better this year.. and seattle just have better de's than us- pretty simple really

As for the Morency trade, we traded a scrub for a another scrub. Green Bay has been so impressed with Morency's play that they the went and traded a draft pick, soemthing that is more valuable then Gado or Morency, for Ryan Grant. Yup, Morency must sure be lighting it up in Green Bay. Atleast we didn't give up a draft pick to get Gado.

hey i never said morency was great but hes a good bit better than gado.. you cant hold the fact that GB got a pretty good rb in addition to him as a reason the trade was good for us...

anyway its not really worth arguing cos it seems you have it in your head the texans can do no wrong and have to justify that despite the reality.. thats alright but we did lose on both trades- were they huge franchise- changing loses? no but it still would be nice if we hadn't made them...

we've done ok on most of the big decisions so far, namely

mario V vince V reggie
schaub
amobi

Errant Hothy
11-14-2007, 12:30 PM
hey i never said morency was great but hes a good bit better than gado.. you cant hold the fact that GB got a pretty good rb in addition to him as a reason the trade was good for us...

The made that trade after having ample time to find out of Morency was going to be able to be productive for them, and the fact that they made the trade shows that the Packers had about as much faith in Morency as the Texans did.

anyway its not really worth arguing cos it seems you have it in your head the texans can do no wrong and have to justify that despite the reality.. thats alright but we did lose on both trades- were they huge franchise- changing loses? no but it still would be nice if we hadn't made them...

we've done ok on most of the big decisions so far, namely

mario V vince V reggie
schaub
amobi

I don't think the Texans can do no wrong, but I refuse to hlod everything against them. In both deals we traded non-star players who had failed to produce (and yes Bain failed to produce, at least in the coaching staff's eyes; and we won't get in to what we gave up for Babin) for two players who at least had a shot at producing. Neither trade can be called a bad deal for any of the four teams involved. You can say that none of trades went the way the teams involved had hoped, but nobody made a horendous deal.

eriadoc
11-14-2007, 12:36 PM
The trade was made so late, you can't really evaluate it yet. Babin would have contributed here as a situational pass rusher - a role player. Boulware was familiar with the system Seattle was running and would have served a backup role there, if the money didn't prohibit that (from what I heard at the time fo the trade). On new teams, that late in the game, with no training camp, neither of them will do much for the teams they went to this year.

What makes the trade a win for us, if you can call it that, is that we have a warm body at SS, which we didn't have after Earl went down. We had a glut of defensive linemen. Even as nothing more than a special teams warm body, Boulware is better than whatever we could sign off the street at this point.

Hervoyel
11-14-2007, 12:41 PM
Boulware, I believe, was more than an attempt to plug a hole this year. I think they like him and see him as someone who can beat out Glenn Earl at SS. Babin was gone after this year, regardless. So, I'd say the can't be graded yet.

I'm in complete agreement with you on this.

I don't believe that Rick Smith made that trade to turn our SS spot into a strength "by week 6". I think he took a spot where we had some depth and used it to get a guy he expects to beat out our incumbent during camp next year. By the end of the season I think Boulware will be competing against the other safeties with an equal understanding of the defense scheme (if you can call this crap the Texans (Smith/Bush) roll out there a "scheme")

Next training camp I think they expect him to push Glenn Earl to the bench. It may or may not happen but I think that was the intent. Rick Smith knows as well as anybody that bringing a guy into a new system with no training camp isn't going to help you right away.

He got a chance to trade a surplus for a need (with little risk since Babin wasn't exactly setting the world on fire here to begin with) and as a nice side effect it made a lot of fans who thought Boulware would be starting in two weeks happy for a while.

badboy
11-14-2007, 01:06 PM
You have to give up nothing to get nothing in this league.

buddyboy
11-14-2007, 01:10 PM
Tulip just wondering what the point of all of this is. The Guy wasn't kevin Green, was never going to be Kevin Green and we don't run the 3-4 anymore. The guy had hit his ceiling. What we spent to get him, that there thingy was a bust. The sooner he was out the door the sooner the team could lick it's wounds. the fact that we got anything at all for him was a positive for me.

I disagree. We ran the 3-4 with him for a couple of years, then moved him to his natural position at DE, where he led our team in sacks in his first year back to DE (i know, 5 is still pretty bad). I think that moving a player back to his natural position, or even moving them to a different position all together merits a couple years of evaluation. No, Jason Babin didn't look good as a 3-4 OLB and yes, the Texans spent way too much on him, but I believe he was a solid player and had potential to be a better player. I would take situational pass rushing over a ST player any day, especially how little pressure our DL has gotten on the QB this season.

Who cares what we spent on him? If it turns out Travis Johnson turns out to be a decent player, but not FIRST ROUND talent, does that mean we should trade him? Because MW might never live up to his first pick status, does that qualify him as a bust? After a player is drafted, we should try to not look at where they were drafted, but just look at how they are contributing to the team. Ryans contributed much more than a second round draft pick should have last year, so does it matter that he was a second rounder? Fred Bennet is playing well this year, does it matter that he was a fourth rounder? Babin cost the Texans, yes. But he was a decent player and one could argue that he never really HURT the texans with his play. Bouleware has had a history of blowing coverage and while he may be contributing on STs, and while Babin might not be playing in Seattle, I still think that this trade was a complete wash, for both teams.

3andOUT
11-14-2007, 02:57 PM
It was like trading paper for plastic. YOu had a guy, you didn't have a spot for and didn't think fit in that much and you traded him for a body to fill your injury decimated secondary. Because we had some no names in the secondary and we went out and got a familiar name, people automatically thought this guy was going to be an answer. I don't think anybody in the Texans organization thought this guy was going to be more than a special teamer.