PDA

View Full Version : '08 Potential RB Thread


Imatexanfan
11-12-2007, 12:49 AM
You know I'm sure that the Cowboys will be giving up J. Jones and the the Chiefs with P. Holmes just a off the wall question, which one would ya'll prefer?! Me if I was to pick would be Jones but then I think where he came from The Cowballs, then the other end would be the Preist.:doot:

On top of that is there anyway we could draft D. McFadden or something more than a D-Lineman. If we lean toward defense I pick Steltz from LSU just see J Lynch and Polmalau mix in 'em.:texflag:

adam
11-12-2007, 09:12 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: give Echemandu a chance before we go spending all of our resources on expensive RBs. Everyone seems to be set on the idea that we need to draft a RB, despite the glaring holes in our secondary. Why not give Echemandu a chance to show us what he has? In his one game that he played in, he carried for 68 yards on 12 attempts (5.8 YPC). He even broke a 20 yarder! Why should we stick with Green who can't stay ont he field for any length of time and Dayne who can only muster one or two solid outings a season? Give the kid a chance, and if he works...go out and fix the holes in our defense. Your shiny, new, expensive runner won't be of much good when our defense can't get him on the field without surrendering 7 points.

V Man
11-12-2007, 09:43 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: give Echemandu a chance before we go spending all of our resources on expensive RBs. Everyone seems to be set on the idea that we need to draft a RB, despite the glaring holes in our secondary. Why not give Echemandu a chance to show us what he has? In his one game that he played in, he carried for 68 yards on 12 attempts (5.8 YPC). He even broke a 20 yarder! Why should we stick with Green who can't stay ont he field for any length of time and Dayne who can only muster one or two solid outings a season? Give the kid a chance, and if he works...go out and fix the holes in our defense. Your shiny, new, expensive runner won't be of much good when our defense can't get him on the field without surrendering 7 points.

Everyone also forgets that we will have Taylor back next year as well. Now if MacFadden falls in our lap, take him if not go secondary or o-line (unless we trade down).

painekiller
11-12-2007, 09:45 AM
Lets look at our RBs for next year: Green is still here due to cap cost to cut (4.8M), Taylor should be back, and he is a nice speed size combo guy 5-11 220, Adimchinobi Echemandu 5-10 226,. suddenly the RB position does not look as bad. The problem is injuries, we keep having injuries to these guys.

The if's are will Green stay healthy enough to trust, can Taylor ever get on the roster and not fumble his way off, is Echemandu the real deal or just a 2 quarter flash?

I do not see this team spending big money, nor a high pick on RB if Echu looks solid the rest of the way.

On the other hand, if the team decides they can afford to cut Green, then Taylor and Echu become pieces and I would love to spend a 3rd on a guy like :
Kevin Smith 6-0, 210 4.52 Central Florida
Allen Patrick 5-11, 195 4.45 Oklahoma
Chris Johnson 5-11, 200 4.35 East Carolina
Matt Forte 6-0, 225 4.58 Tulane

None of these guys are Superstars but being apart of a 3 headed monster could go a long way.

tulexan
11-12-2007, 10:43 AM
On the other hand, if the team decides they can afford to cut Green, then Taylor and Echu become pieces and I would love to spend a 3rd on a guy like :
Kevin Smith 6-0, 210 4.52 Central Florida
Allen Patrick 5-11, 195 4.45 Oklahoma
Chris Johnson 5-11, 200 4.35 East Carolina
Matt Forte 6-0, 225 4.58 Tulane

None of these guys are Superstars but being apart of a 3 headed monster could go a long way.

I think these are the types of players that we are most likely going to look at. We have way too many holes in positions where you can't just plug someone in to spend a high pick on a running back.

There is still a big question mark on Spencer and we need at least one more player for our secondary.

TEXANRED
11-12-2007, 11:04 AM
I wouldn't depend on a single RB that is currently on the Texans roster for next year. Green gets hurt and cant stay healthy, Dayne should be a no resign, Taylor has started one game his entire NFL career, Enchowhosits gets hurt his first game with the Texans.

RB is a priority whether in the draft or through FA. I like Jones, he is a hard runner and a starter unlike Turner who has been nothing but a back up who is going to want starter money.

adam
11-12-2007, 11:35 AM
I wouldn't depend on a single RB that is currently on the Texans roster for next year. Green gets hurt and cant stay healthy, Dayne should be a no resign, Taylor has started one game his entire NFL career, Enchowhosits gets hurt his first game with the Texans.

RB is a priority whether in the draft or through FA. I like Jones, he is a hard runner and a starter unlike Turner who has been nothing but a back up who is going to want starter money.

Julius Jones would be an interesting option to look at. However, with that said, I still say we give Echemandu a chance. He aquires a minor injury in his first game, and we should completely give up on him? I'm not buying it. I would give him the bulk of the runs in a game in the near future. Green can't stay on the field and Dayne has already had his token solid outing this season.

Mr teX
11-12-2007, 11:43 AM
Green- most likely will be the starter next year splitting carries with the drafted player/ FA/ Echamandu next year.
Dayne- will finally be put out
Taylor-probably cut next year b/c they were never high on him in the 1st place & he'll be coming off of knee surgery & won't show well.
Echamandu- will take dayne's place as the short yardage pounding type of RB kubes feels he just has to have.

Draft wise i think we take a look @ hart from michigan or maybe Felix jones, the other RB outta Arkansas if he comes out. Maybe Ray Rice. Either way, i think kubes will "break the code" & take a RB in the 1st next year b/c he's tired of seeing his offense rudderless without a running game & also knows he'll be on the hot seat.

Free Agency - i could see us looking into picking up J. Jones, he's a 1 cut & go type RB. Anyone else available is just not worth mentioning except MAYBE noah herron.-- gotta keep that Denver/GB pipeline open.

Goldensilence
11-12-2007, 12:00 PM
Lets look at our RBs for next year: Green is still here due to cap cost to cut (4.8M), Taylor should be back, and he is a nice speed size combo guy 5-11 220, Adimchinobi Echemandu 5-10 226,. suddenly the RB position does not look as bad. The problem is injuries, we keep having injuries to these guys.

The if's are will Green stay healthy enough to trust, can Taylor ever get on the roster and not fumble his way off, is Echemandu the real deal or just a 2 quarter flash?

I do not see this team spending big money, nor a high pick on RB if Echu looks solid the rest of the way.

On the other hand, if the team decides they can afford to cut Green, then Taylor and Echu become pieces and I would love to spend a 3rd on a guy like :
Kevin Smith 6-0, 210 4.52 Central Florida
Allen Patrick 5-11, 195 4.45 Oklahoma
Chris Johnson 5-11, 200 4.35 East Carolina
Matt Forte 6-0, 225 4.58 Tulane

None of these guys are Superstars but being apart of a 3 headed monster could go a long way.

I like his game. Seems like the cut and go back this offense is supposed to prefer.

We'll also have money to play with in FA as well.

adam
11-12-2007, 12:09 PM
Either way, i think kubes will "break the code" & take a RB in the 1st next year b/c he's tired of seeing his offense rudderless without a running game & also knows he'll be on the hot seat.

Yet, we have a back that shows potential in limited time...and he is only worth the role of Ron Dayne? Why not let Echemandu try before we go into the realm of risking spending millions and a draft pick on a RB? Especially considering how badly we need someone in the secondary? The best back this team has ever had (Dominick Davis/Williams) was drafted in the 4th round.

Mr teX
11-12-2007, 01:20 PM
Yet, we have a back that shows potential in limited time...and he is only worth the role of Ron Dayne? Why not let Echemandu try before we go into the realm of risking spending millions and a draft pick on a RB? Especially considering how badly we need someone in the secondary? The best back this team has ever had (Dominick Davis/Williams) was drafted in the 4th round.

1, B/c he has a history of injury all the way back to his college days at cal & the game in which he played with us didn't do anything to help him shed that tag. Combine this with the fact that he was a 7th round draft pick who couldn't even latch on in places such as cleveland & minnesota, & i think it'd be a mistake for kubes to go into next season banking on him to be a major contributor @ the RB slot. He's a nice change of pace though.

2, b/c the RB class this year is deep & lots of good pro prospects will probably be there for us if we end up picking top 10 again, but they'll all be pretty much gone by the time we get up to pick again in the 3rd round; remember, we don't have a second.

3, Dunta will be back in some capacity, Bennett looks to be the real deal @ #2, & Von will be able to go @ CB/FS as a nickel if need be. In addition to all this, we still should have Demps or Boulware & Earl will also be back. Yeah, i know it's a little thin on talent there, but if Dunta can come back & be close to how he was pre-injury, we'll more than likely have the CB positions filled & we've got plenty to pick from when it comes to our safeties in which case Von Hutchins & Demps have shown they can do a little something back there. As long as Faggins isn't out there, we should be at least b average.

I know it sounds suspect, especially watching our secondary play this year, but we need an NFL starting caliber, dependable back worse than we need secondary help at this point. The system we run depends heavily on it, & kubes hasn't had that since he's been here.

Brando
11-12-2007, 02:49 PM
What do you think? He is a former Bronco.....

Former Denver running back Tatum Bell has been buried in Detroit. He likely will not return as a free agent in the offseason. A potential landing spot for Bell is Houston

Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7410162)

Exithios
11-12-2007, 02:51 PM
1, B/c he has a history of injury all the way back to his college days at cal & the game in which he played with us didn't do anything to help him shed that tag. Combine this with the fact that he was a 7th round draft pick who couldn't even latch on in places such as cleveland & minnesota, & i think it'd be a mistake for kubes to go into next season banking on him to be a major contributor @ the RB slot. He's a nice change of pace though.

2, b/c the RB class this year is deep & lots of good pro prospects will probably be there for us if we end up picking top 10 again, but they'll all be pretty much gone by the time we get up to pick again in the 3rd round; remember, we don't have a second.

3, Dunta will be back in some capacity, Bennett looks to be the real deal @ #2, & Von will be able to go @ CB/FS as a nickel if need be. In addition to all this, we still should have Demps or Boulware & Earl will also be back. Yeah, i know it's a little thin on talent there, but if Dunta can come back & be close to how he was pre-injury, we'll more than likely have the CB positions filled & we've got plenty to pick from when it comes to our safeties in which case Von Hutchins & Demps have shown they can do a little something back there. As long as Faggins isn't out there, we should be at least b average.

I know it sounds suspect, especially watching our secondary play this year, but we need an NFL starting caliber, dependable back worse than we need secondary help at this point. The system we run depends heavily on it, & kubes hasn't had that since he's been here.

I agree.

Our secondary looks worse than they are lately (although they are pretty bad) because our defense is spending way too much time on the field. If we can wrap our hands around an every down back and fortify our line, that should keep our defense off the field and prevent our secondary from being exploited for 45 minutes a game.

My $0.02

PapaL
11-12-2007, 03:02 PM
If you have a fumble drill named after you - you shouldn't be on our team.

Carr Bombed
11-12-2007, 03:04 PM
Every year all Houston does is pick up everybody elses washed up players and then year after year Texan fans are left wondering why their team still sucks

I'm tired of doing that.

badboy
11-12-2007, 03:13 PM
Green- most likely will be the starter next year splitting carries with the drafted player/ FA/ Echamandu next year.
Dayne- will finally be put out
Taylor-probably cut next year b/c they were never high on him in the 1st place & he'll be coming off of knee surgery & won't show well.
Echamandu- will take dayne's place as the short yardage pounding type of RB kubes feels he just has to have.

Draft wise i think we take a look @ hart from michigan or maybe Felix jones, the other RB outta Arkansas if he comes out. Maybe Ray Rice. Either way, i think kubes will "break the code" & take a RB in the 1st next year b/c he's tired of seeing his offense rudderless without a running game & also knows he'll be on the hot seat.

Free Agency - i could see us looking into picking up J. Jones, he's a 1 cut & go type RB. Anyone else available is just not worth mentioning except MAYBE noah herron.-- gotta keep that Denver/GB pipeline open.

I agree with your assessment. Green while it's hard to stay on field looks good when he is there. Also, 2nd year of guaranteed 6-7 million dollars. A free agent such as Jones could be on team and may effect the draft. We can afford him if he is what Kube's wants. A draft pick would go here, but unless McFadden or Johnathan Stewert is there in first, my money says no RB before 6th round. I do not see Taylor being on team or making an impact. Eche looked ok for a very short time and it will be interesting to see how he does. I think it is tough to evaluate a player off a few plays such as Charles Spencer.

badboy
11-12-2007, 03:14 PM
Yet, we have a back that shows potential in limited time...and he is only worth the role of Ron Dayne? Why not let Echemandu try before we go into the realm of risking spending millions and a draft pick on a RB? Especially considering how badly we need someone in the secondary? The best back this team has ever had (Dominick Davis/Williams) was drafted in the 4th round.We have seven more games before free agency and draft. I think it is safe to say Eche will get his chance.

adam
11-12-2007, 03:42 PM
1, B/c he has a history of injury all the way back to his college days at cal & the game in which he played with us didn't do anything to help him shed that tag. Combine this with the fact that he was a 7th round draft pick who couldn't even latch on in places such as cleveland & minnesota, & i think it'd be a mistake for kubes to go into next season banking on him to be a major contributor @ the RB slot. He's a nice change of pace though.

Seeing as how he has only had one game with a meaningful amount of carries (a good game), I don't think it's very fair to harp on his "history". Especially when we went into this season expecting something other than an injury plagued season out of Ahman Green. All I am saying is that we should give him the bulk for a few games this season and see how he does. If he is no better Green/Dayne, then fine...go out and get a RB (my preference would be Julius Jones). Otherwise, I would say we keep him and still get help in our secondary (which I'll touch in a minute).

2, b/c the RB class this year is deep & lots of good pro prospects will probably be there for us if we end up picking top 10 again, but they'll all be pretty much gone by the time we get up to pick again in the 3rd round; remember, we don't have a second.

If we do have to get a new running back, I would rather not do so in the draft. At the very least, not in the first round. The bust rate is much to high for me to put a lot of hope in finding our savior at RB in the first round of the draft. Again, I would be happy with Julius Jones if Echemandu was to not work out.

3, Dunta will be back in some capacity, Bennett looks to be the real deal @ #2, & Von will be able to go @ CB/FS as a nickel if need be. In addition to all this, we still should have Demps or Boulware & Earl will also be back. Yeah, i know it's a little thin on talent there, but if Dunta can come back & be close to how he was pre-injury, we'll more than likely have the CB positions filled & we've got plenty to pick from when it comes to our safeties in which case Von Hutchins & Demps have shown they can do a little something back there. As long as Faggins isn't out there, we should be at least b average.

It's uncertain that Dunta will ever be back at full capacity. I know that's horrifying to hear, but he suffered two major injuries in one play. If he does come back, who knows how effective he'll be. I'll agree with you on Bennett, he's is the one cog in our secondary that doesn't concern me at this point. I am not comfortable with anyone outside of C.C. Brown at the safety position, and even he is suspect. I have seen all of them get burned and blow a coverage at one point or another. The one thing that I am keeping an eye out for is Jamar Fletcher's return. I'm not sure what exactly he can contribute, but I don't think it'll be enough to save our secondary.

I know it sounds suspect, especially watching our secondary play this year, but we need an NFL starting caliber, dependable back worse than we need secondary help at this point. The system we run depends heavily on it, & kubes hasn't had that since he's been here.

Well, it raises a good question. Is it the offense not being able to stay on the field? Or the defense not being able to get them back on the field without allowing a score? I would say the latter, but I'm sure everyone has their opinions.

Mr teX
11-12-2007, 05:22 PM
Seeing as how he has only had one game with a meaningful amount of carries (a good game), I don't think it's very fair to harp on his "history". Especially when we went into this season expecting something other than an injury plagued season out of Ahman Green. All I am saying is that we should give him the bulk for a few games this season and see how he does. If he is no better Green/Dayne, then fine...go out and get a RB (my preference would be Julius Jones). Otherwise, I would say we keep him and still get help in our secondary (which I'll touch in a minute).

True, but he still got hurt in that 1 game & if you go & look back at his history @ cal, i believe he had 2 seasons cut short by injury. I'm willing to bet that's why he was a late 7th rounder & was unable to stick at on other teams.


If we do have to get a new running back, I would rather not do so in the draft. At the very least, not in the first round. The bust rate is much to high for me to put a lot of hope in finding our savior at RB in the first round of the draft. Again, I would be happy with Julius Jones if Echemandu was to not work out.

You could say that about almost every prospect drafted @ the top, doesn't mean you don't pick up a guy who has everything that you're looking for in a prospect for your system if he falls to you.


It's uncertain that Dunta will ever be back at full capacity. I know that's horrifying to hear, but he suffered two major injuries in one play. If he does come back, who knows how effective he'll be. I'll agree with you on Bennett, he's is the one cog in our secondary that doesn't concern me at this point. I am not comfortable with anyone outside of C.C. Brown at the safety position, and even he is suspect. I have seen all of them get burned and blow a coverage at one point or another. The one thing that I am keeping an eye out for is Jamar Fletcher's return. I'm not sure what exactly he can contribute, but I don't think it'll be enough to save our secondary.

While i agree with you on Dunta, you still have to give him the benefit of the doubt b/c you know he can play if he comes back anywhere close to what he was. Plus, i'm not too thrilled with this year's crop of DB's; not enough to draft any of them in the top 10 anyway. I also agree with you in regards to the FS but again, i still don't think any of the prospects coming out are going to be that much better than the ones we have already.
Well, it raises a good question. Is it the offense not being able to stay on the field? Or the defense not being able to get them back on the field without allowing a score? I would say the latter, but I'm sure everyone has their opinions.

In all but maybe 2 games (Jags, SD) the defense has been able to lock down for at least 1 half which tells me they at least have it in them to do on a regular basis. But up until the raiders game, we hadn't had a 100 yd rusher, & that was against the worst run defense in the league. What's more is that if i'm not mistaken, we only had 3-4 tops all last season & that's terrible for a offense that runs lots of play-action pass



but, i suppose we couldn't really go wrong either way, i would just like to see them FINALLY get this offense off the ground.

DiehardChris
11-12-2007, 05:35 PM
Er, I say no. He's got a reputation for being soft, and he's not a good blocker.

I think it's a lot more likely that we address it in the draft... I thought maybe first round, but who knows how Dunta's injury will affect our draft board. Sure doesn't sound like it's the kind of injury that he can definitely come back from next season.

adam
11-12-2007, 06:38 PM
A fumble machine with the speed of Ron Dayne. I'll pass.

Hervoyel
11-12-2007, 07:39 PM
What do you think? He is a former Bronco.....



Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7410162)

God I hope not. If we do find Tatum Bell in our backfield next year it will tell me that we're still picking through the castoff pile to find our running game. I don't think it will be a good sign.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-12-2007, 07:46 PM
Hell no

Xetuoh1836
11-12-2007, 07:49 PM
No, thank you.....next!!

tulexan
11-12-2007, 08:36 PM
A fumble machine with the speed of Ron Dayne. I'll pass.

Not that I want Tatum Bell, but do you know anything about him?

He is by far faster than Ron Dayne.

Second Honeymoon
11-12-2007, 08:46 PM
If Hart falls to the 3rd Round, I think he would be worth a shot. I also think Jamaal Charles could be worth a 3rd round shot. His problem is fumbling and that can be coached up (see Tiki Barber). JC knows how to run with the zone blocking scheme and he has the breakaway speed to take it to the house.

I would love for the Texans to get a top prospect like McFadden or Slaton but I just think the price will be too high. We need too spend that 1st Round pick on a top FS like Kenny Phillips from The U or the best CB on the board or if somehow Glenn Dorsey can fall to our draft slot (i'd say 8-14th overall) we would be crazy not to take him....but I think that is a pipe dream. I would have no problem going 5 years in a row on DL in the 1st Round....but only for Dorsey.

I think its safe to say that we will have at worst, an opportunity to get a probowl caliber Safety in Phillips in next years draft in the 1st Round.

Dream Scenario: Sign Bill Cowher, Dick LeBeau AND Alan Faneca, Trade for DeAngelo Hall, DRob gets back healthy, we draft Phillips or Dorsey, and we pick up Hart or Charles in the 3rd Round. Instant playoff contender.

Just Imagine Mario - Dorsey - Okoye - Weaver with LeBeau sending blitzes from the corners. I guess I am in dreamland though. With enough $$ it could happen though. No doubt. Tell Cowher that he can have Joe Gibbs money and have him lure Faneca over. Ok, I am going to go take my meds.

mexican_texan
11-12-2007, 08:48 PM
I think we'll find a good running back in the draft. Probably an unknown, much like Chris Taylor.

adam
11-12-2007, 08:52 PM
Not that I want Tatum Bell, but do you know anything about him?

He is by far faster than Ron Dayne.

I was exaggerating. He is probably faster than Dayne. However, he is in no way a speed machine. From what I've seen, he is pretty sluggish.

tulexan
11-12-2007, 09:18 PM
I was exaggerating. He is probably faster than Dayne. However, he is in no way a speed machine. From what I've seen, he is pretty sluggish.

Yeah he is really slow

Emerging talent with a fine combination of size, strength and speed One of the fastest players in the country, Bell boasts a 4.34 clocking in the 40-yard dash

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=35754

adam
11-12-2007, 09:39 PM
Yeah he is really slow



http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=35754

For the record, Ron Dayne had a 4.65 time when he was being scouted for the NFL. 40 times rarely give a good deal of insight into what a RB is going to look like. From what I've seen of Tatum Bell, he fumbles chronically and fails to hit the holes with any intensity.

threetoedpete
11-13-2007, 12:31 AM
Lets look at our RBs for next year: Green is still here due to cap cost to cut (4.8M), Taylor should be back, and he is a nice speed size combo guy 5-11 220, Adimchinobi Echemandu 5-10 226,. suddenly the RB position does not look as bad. The problem is injuries, we keep having injuries to these guys.

The if's are will Green stay healthy enough to trust, can Taylor ever get on the roster and not fumble his way off, is Echemandu the real deal or just a 2 quarter flash?

I do not see this team spending big money, nor a high pick on RB if Echu looks solid the rest of the way.

On the other hand, if the team decides they can afford to cut Green, then Taylor and Echu become pieces and I would love to spend a 3rd on a guy like :
Kevin Smith 6-0, 210 4.52 Central Florida
Allen Patrick 5-11, 195 4.45 Oklahoma
Chris Johnson 5-11, 200 4.35 East Carolina
Matt Forte 6-0, 225 4.58 Tulane

None of these guys are Superstars but being apart of a 3 headed monster could go a long way.


I tivoed Kevin Smith UCF, the other night. I doubt he drops into the third round. The positives on him are he is a true beast. The negatives are he is very raw. He likes to dance a bit too much. TBS, if by some mircle he was on the board in the third...you spend ammo to move up and go get him at the top of the third.

He has the chance to be that special. Arm tackles will not bring him down. He has true elite field vision and moves. He's a beast. Doubt he gets through the second round though.

painekiller
11-13-2007, 01:24 AM
I tivoed Kevin Smith UCF, the other night. I doubt he drops into the third round. The positives on him are he is a true beast. The negatives are he is very raw. He likes to dance a bit too much. TBS, if by some mircle he was on the board in the third...you spend ammo to move up and go get him at the top of the third.

He has the chance to be that special. Arm tackles will not bring him down. He has true elite field vision and moves. He's a beast. Doubt he gets through the second round though.

The four guys I mentioned are currently flying below the radar in the early mocks, which we all know are never correct. There are always guys thought to be sure 1st rounder that fall and guys who jump into the mix. Another back I like is Mendenhall, another junior who may come out early. The question we all will not know the answer to for some time is how many Rbs go in the first? McFaddin, Stewart, Slaton, Rice, Jones, someone not on my current radar?

It's funny how many QB and RB get taken in the 1st round in mocks.

Couch Potatoe
11-13-2007, 05:27 AM
Jones in FA, Taylor, Green, or a drafted RB is still suspect until you fix the O-line. I still say we need a stud center and see where Spencer is at LT. Then and only then can you run against the good teams. This offense depends on the run so it's crucial to get the O-line fixed for good.

We can't afford to put any more money right now into the D-line. No more high priced FA either.

beerlover
11-13-2007, 06:47 AM
y'all knew I'd have to get me some of this :bat:

Jones/Holmes are not downhill zone blocking backs. end of discussion.

while they're exceptions to the rule, late rd. picks tend to come with history of nagging/severe injury's. then they have to fit into the scheme/mentality of what Kubiak expects them to do which also includes blocking.

did anyone watch the Green Bay game this weekend when they steam rolled Adrian Peterson's Vikings? He is as good of RB as you'll find, but he was exposed by spreading him out & keeping him from heading North/South. meanwhile this new kid out of nowhere Ryan Grant (The Packers acquired running back Ryan Grant from the New York Giants for an undisclosed future draft pick. Grant, a graduate of Notre Dame, spent the 2005 season on the Giants' practice squad and the 2006 season on injured reserve) rushes for 119 & this helps keep Minnesota off Farve.

the problem is you just can't count on a consistant basis these 2nd tier backs are gonna stay healthy. they have track records which indicate its a flip of the coin how much production you can expect from them in return while floating roster spots in constant flux, not to mention timing with your QB/linemen.

this is why Kubiak/Rick Smith should seriously consider an elite 1st rd. RB who fits their system if available. otherwise pass on a talent like Jonathan Stewart & regret it for the next 10 years :bunpan:

Mr. White
11-13-2007, 07:14 AM
I can't say that I'm surprised that it's not even December yet and we're already talking about April.

Having said that, I think that we should take the first RB that comes our way that's over 6'3 and 300 pounds. A RB like Joe Thomas is in Cleveland. I was heartbroken when my man-crush didn't slip to us at 10. Levi Brown was even gone by then.

McFadden and Slaton will probably be gone in the top 3 (and I don't think we'll be picking there anyway) so we need to draft the top LT on the board.

Tatum Bell might not be the next Earl Campbell, but he's better than any of the bottom-feeders we have right now.

beerlover
11-13-2007, 09:11 AM
07 Texans/traded/waived RB production-

Ron Dayne 348 yds 3.5 avg. 2 td (ribs)

Ahman Green 260 yds 3.7 avg. 2 td (ankle/Knee)

Vernand Morency 70 yds 4.1 avg. 0 td (traded GB/knee)

Adimchinobe Echemandu 68 yds 5.7 avg. 0 td (thigh/hamstring)

Samkon Gado 46 yds 2.6 avg. 1 td (waived/Dolphins)

Jameel Cook 24 yds 3.0 avg. 0 td (off PUP)

Vonta Leach 1 yd 1.0 avg. 0 td (re-signed 07)

Chris Taylor 0 yds 0 avg. 0 td (IR Knee)

committed to the run? effective? what if Chris Taylor comes back? what if Ahman can stay healthy? what if Echemandu is the real deal? what if Pigs can :pigfly: what if Jonathan Stewart comes out & is sitting there in the 1st rd. when the Texans pick? what do y'all think beerlover does if the Texans pass on him? :gun:

bah007
11-13-2007, 09:19 AM
If Hart falls to the 3rd Round, I think he would be worth a shot. I also think Jamaal Charles could be worth a 3rd round shot. His problem is fumbling and that can be coached up (see Tiki Barber). JC knows how to run with the zone blocking scheme and he has the breakaway speed to take it to the house.

I'll eat my hat if Jamaal declares early. Only 2 players have ever done so at UT under Mack Brown.

If Mike Hart falls to the 3rd, then I'm all for that.

ATX
11-13-2007, 09:42 AM
I'm surprised Michael Turner hasn't been mentioned, what's his situation in San Diego going to be after the season?

Lucky
11-13-2007, 09:45 AM
I'm surprised Michael Turner hasn't been mentioned, what's his situation in San Diego going to be after the season?
Turner will be an unrestricted free agent. Unless he's franchise tagged by the Bolts. Which is unlikely.

infantrycak
11-13-2007, 09:46 AM
I'm surprised Michael Turner hasn't been mentioned, what's his situation in San Diego going to be after the season?

Turner will be a FA after the season and looking for a $30-40 mil deal for 5-6 years.

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 09:50 AM
For the record, Ron Dayne had a 4.65 time when he was being scouted for the NFL. 40 times rarely give a good deal of insight into what a RB is going to look like. From what I've seen of Tatum Bell, he fumbles chronically and fails to hit the holes with any intensity.

The thing is a sub 4.3 time and a sub 4.6 time are really very different speeds. But I agree he doesn't run his hardest or fastest when he should, that or that 40 time is a fluke.

Mr teX
11-13-2007, 09:55 AM
I'll eat my hat if Jamaal declares early. Only 2 players have ever done so at UT under Mack Brown.

If Mike Hart falls to the 3rd, then I'm all for that.


Mike Hart's not falling to the 3rd even if kubes feels he has to trade up to get him in the 2nd round. someone will get him there when Kubes ultimately passes on him in the 1st, or something else wacky happens. I'd like to see him here b/c i think he's going to be good in the NFL.

You can't argue against his production, he's not a fumbler he's got pretty good hands & very good speed & he's a gamer. The only knock on this guy is that he's a little injury prone. But i figure since he'll be sharing carries for at least his 1st year, that won't be a problem for him.

he's got a build & running style similar to DD but with more speed, & you know how kubes & Shanahan felt about him when he was at Denver.

I figure he's kubes' dream prospect @ RB, short of an Adrian Peterson-like guy. I'd like to see him here unless we somehow get our hands on McFadden.

Maddict5
11-13-2007, 09:55 AM
If we do have to get a new running back, I would rather not do so in the draft. At the very least, not in the first round. The bust rate is much to high for me to put a lot of hope in finding our savior at RB in the first round of the draft. Again, I would be happy with Julius Jones if Echemandu was to not work out.


i actually think the opposite:
2007: marshawn lynch (good), AD (super)
2006: bush (meh very average), maroney (good when healthy), williams (ditto), addai (very good)
2005: benson (average again), brown (excellent when healthy), cadillac (ditto)
2004: steven kackson (excellent), kevin jones (good when healthy)

bar benson and bush they've all shown they can play rb at a high level and def looks to have a much lower bust rate than most positions.. biggest problem seems to be staying healthy

now look at fa etc (i might miss a few):
green (decent but has been very injury prone), jamal lewis (poor/average), mcgahee (only ok), thomas jones (poor), tatum bell :gun:, reuben droughns :wild: , edge (decent this yr), travis henry (pretty good when not getting busy or smoking.NOTE selvin young also looks good in denver),

ATX
11-13-2007, 09:57 AM
Turner will be a FA after the season and looking for a $30-40 mil deal for 5-6 years.

I'd pay that much for Turner......how much did Green cost us?

infantrycak
11-13-2007, 10:22 AM
I'd pay that much for Turner......how much did Green cost us?

4 years $23 mil--$5 mil signing bonus and $1.5 mil roster bonus this year.

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 10:26 AM
mcgahee (only ok)

I must defend McGahee here. He has played well this year and he is the only thing besides Todd Heap that is doing anything for that Ravens offense. Teams don't worry about McNair or Boller when they play the Ravens...this is the guy they are trying to stop. 6th on the rushing leader board with 749 yards and a 4.3 YPC. He has also been a pretty good receiver out of the backfield this year.

ATX
11-13-2007, 10:29 AM
4 years $23 mil--$5 mil signing bonus and $1.5 mil roster bonus this year.

So basically the same price as Green? I hope the front office is considering making a move on Turner. Sign Turner, cut Green.....

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 10:30 AM
So basically the same price as Green? I hope the front office is considering making a move on Turner. Sign Turner, cut Green.....

I don't see anything wrong with Green other than his injury. However, injuries are also a part of the game and if he is going to lose a step permantently through this injury I would agree with you.

ATX
11-13-2007, 10:39 AM
I don't see anything wrong with Green other than his injury. However, injuries are also a part of the game and if he is going to lose a step permantently through this injury I would agree with you.

Green is on the downside of his career, sure he has a little left in the tank, but Turner is young and doesn't have the wear and tear as he's been backing up LT in San Diego. He'd start on most teams in the league IMO and would seriously be worth signing him.

TexansSeminole
11-13-2007, 10:41 AM
Green is on the downside of his career, sure he has a little left in the tank, but Turner is young and doesn't have the wear and tear as he's been backing up LT in San Diego. He'd start on most teams in the league IMO and would seriously be worth signing him.

Def agree that Turner would be better.

ATX
11-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Def agree that Turner would be better.

I just think Green was a stopgap signing and he really hasn't done much here IMO. Even the games he was healthy, he was still average. Turner could be our guy for the next 5-6 years barring significant injury.

otisbean
11-13-2007, 11:03 AM
Signing Turner allows us to draft an OT and secondary in the first and third. THis would allow us to fill 3 out of 4 holes that we have. Of course you could sign Samuels and draft a RB in the first or third as well, BUT if you think Turner is going to command big bucks wait til you see what Samuels gets on the open market. Turner is probably the cheaper option.

infantrycak
11-13-2007, 11:03 AM
So basically the same price as Green? I hope the front office is considering making a move on Turner. Sign Turner, cut Green.....

My numbers were probably a little off on Turner. I think he is going to sign a contract that averages about $8 mil a year v. a little over $5 mil a year for Green. Contrast that with say the #10 pick at about $3 mil a year for someone like Stewart.

Signing Turner will be cheaper than signing Samuels.

Maddict5
11-13-2007, 11:42 AM
id like turner too.. he always impresses anytime i see him despite pretty limites touches

and sorry about mcgahee.. sunday night was still in my mind

austintexanite
11-13-2007, 12:18 PM
I haven't seen Turner too much so I can't really say. I like Hart in the 3rd round, but God knows if he'll be available. Jonathan Steward would be nice in the first round, but we need linemen for that.

badboy
11-13-2007, 01:03 PM
My numbers were probably a little off on Turner. I think he is going to sign a contract that averages about $8 mil a year v. a little over $5 mil a year for Green. Contrast that with say the #10 pick at about $3 mil a year for someone like Stewart.

Signing Turner will be cheaper than signing Samuels.ICAK, do you think we could sign Samuel and a RB like Turner or Julius Jones (is he a free agent for sure? I could not find out) and have enough left of $30 million cap for draft? Resolving two big needs in FA and then getting LT, FS, OLB and center would look much more doable in draft.

rmartin65
11-13-2007, 01:17 PM
I know I have said this before, but Danny Woodhead could be a good fit in Houston. Especially if the Texans run a multi back system. He runs well, has 4.4 speed, and catches the ball as well. He will be there on the second day, only because he is 5'7". And I think I read somewhere that Chadron State runs a zone blocking scheme, thats what the Texans are trying to do, right?

infantrycak
11-13-2007, 01:37 PM
ICAK, do you think we could sign Samuel and a RB like Turner or Julius Jones (is he a free agent for sure? I could not find out) and have enough left of $30 million cap for draft? Resolving two big needs in FA and then getting LT, FS, OLB and center would look much more doable in draft.

The rookie salary pool isn't going to eat up a ton. Last year the Texans' pool was $3.8 mil and it should be similar this year say $4.2 mil. Resigning FA's and tendering RFA's will probably eat $12-14 mil leaving something around $10-12 mil. There are all sorts of ways to structure deals. For instance, Clements has a cap hit of $11.1 mil this year but that is because San Fran paid him no signing bonus and a $10 mil roster bonus which doesn't get prorated. Same deal paid as a signing bonus would have had a cap hit this year of $2.35 mil. In other words even if the Texans only had $8 mil in cap space for FA's, yes they could sign two big FA's like Samuels and Turner depending on how they structure the deals. Whether it is a good idea to have that much money hanging in future years is another matter--the way San Fran did it keeps the number down in future years.

TK_Gamer
11-13-2007, 01:47 PM
if we are not set at the center position a new running back will pay minimal returns. IMHO

badboy
11-13-2007, 02:01 PM
The rookie salary pool isn't going to eat up a ton. Last year the Texans' pool was $3.8 mil and it should be similar this year say $4.2 mil. Resigning FA's and tendering RFA's will probably eat $12-14 mil leaving something around $10-12 mil. There are all sorts of ways to structure deals. For instance, Clements has a cap hit of $11.1 mil this year but that is because San Fran paid him no signing bonus and a $10 mil roster bonus which doesn't get prorated. Same deal paid as a signing bonus would have had a cap hit this year of $2.35 mil. In other words even if the Texans only had $8 mil in cap space for FA's, yes they could sign two big FA's like Samuels and Turner depending on how they structure the deals. Whether it is a good idea to have that much money hanging in future years is another matter--the way San Fran did it keeps the number down in future years.This is exactly what I thought. And Samuel has said he would sign for $40 million over four years. That is doable. We could be out bid but still a chance. I do unserstand we could draft a CB in first, but why not use that pick for another position and get a FA to fill a hole. Someone maybe you caid Samuel could only be a cover 2 CB and might not be as good in our system. I just disagree. ALso, would not players on team such as Ahman Green be willing to re-do contract to free up cash?

infantrycak
11-13-2007, 02:06 PM
This is exactly what I thought. And Samuel has said he would sign for $40 million over four years.

Samuel said he would sign that last year for the Patriots. That doesn't mean he will do it once he hits the open market.

I do unserstand we could draft a CB in first, but why not use that pick for another position and get a FA to fill a hole. Someone maybe you caid Samuel could only be a cover 2 CB and might not be as good in our system. I just disagree.

Rick Smith will undoubtedly try to fill one to three obvious needs through free agency. We'll just have to wait and see which ones he can get filled.

ALso, would not players on team such as Ahman Green be willing to re-do contract to free up cash?

Generally when contracts get done they get lengthened--not sure that is a viable option with Green.

Hook'er
12-03-2007, 01:35 PM
I hope Green is released after this season!:texflag:

The1ApplePie
12-03-2007, 01:56 PM
So if the Texans choke in the last games and the 9ers go on a winning streak, do we have a shot at McFadden?

If so, if we don't take him, maybe we can get Jerry Jones on the phone

adam
12-03-2007, 02:46 PM
I would like to see Julius Jones come to town. In my personal opinion, I would much rather invest in a FA RB than spend a draft pick gambling. Yes, our last free agency RB (Green) didn't play out so well, but just about anyone could have seen that coming. Jones has been doing well for the majority of his career and doesn't have a reputation for being injury prone. I think he would be a fine addition to any team, especially ours. I find Derrick Ward interesting as well, but I would still prefer Jones.