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Dallas_Texan
11-08-2007, 11:03 AM
Can someone tell me how are young OL guys are doing? I rarely get a chance to see them. Does it look like any of them will be able to step up and be the answer at their respective positions?

HOU-TEX
11-08-2007, 11:05 AM
Can someone tell me how are young OL guys are doing? I rarely get a chance to see them. Does it look like any of them will be able to step up and be the answer at their respective positions?

White has been the only one to see any PT. He's done just as well as Flanny, if not better.

Studdard has a pulled Hamstring or groin.

Frye has been moved up to the roster as a swing tackle, but has yet to see any time on the field.:)

Dallas_Texan
11-08-2007, 11:14 AM
White has been the only one to see any PT. He's done just as well as Flanny, if not better.

Studdard has a pulled Hamstring or groin.

Frye has been moved up to the roster as a swing tackle, but has yet to see any time on the field.:)

Well at least that's one less position for us to draft! Now we just need an RB, LT, CB1, FS, OLB, and pass rushing DE!!!

HOU-TEX
11-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Well at least that's one less position for us to draft! Now we just need an RB, LT, CB1, FS, OLB, and pass rushing DE!!!

I can agree with that. Maybe not exactly in that order. I'd add a Center too.

Oh heck, we need alot.:shades:

Couch Potatoe
11-08-2007, 12:26 PM
What's the status on Spencer? Is he coming back this year?

HOU-TEX
11-08-2007, 12:31 PM
What's the status on Spencer? Is he coming back this year?

No, he'll be in camp for next season.:cool:

infantrycak
11-08-2007, 12:35 PM
What's the status on Spencer? Is he coming back this year?

They have to either have him start practicing next week (and there have been no indications they will do so) or they have to place him on IR. If they do practice him, they have three weeks for practice and then must either activate him to the roster or put him on IR.

Dallas_Texan
11-08-2007, 12:35 PM
I can agree with that. Maybe not exactly in that order. I'd add a Center too.

Oh heck, we need alot.:shades:

Wait, I thought White was playing Center now??

Spike
11-08-2007, 12:48 PM
While I haven't seen White get many snaps, I really hope that the coaching staff gets him more involved the second half of the season. The coaches raved about this guy in the off-season and all indications are that he has held his own in the limited action seen. The drop-off at center since Steve went down has been noticeable, so I am not sure that we lose too much by getting this guy in the mix.

If White were to prove able to assume the starters responsibilities, we have a lot of options going into next season. Studdard and Frye both needed a season to grow and learn the professional level, but both of these guys, together with Spencer's return gives us another three young guys with the opportunity to solidify this line. Despite popular thought, we have drafted young talent at this spot, but the OL players take some time to develop and injuries have hurt us, so hopefully with a year of seasoning at the professional level, one or two of these guys prove to be worth the draft pick. I don't know anything about Frye, but I did see Studdard play for four years at UT and I believe that he has what it takes to push for playing time.

You have to believe we either bring in a solid veteran OR use a first day pick to bring in one more body, so with White - that would be five new players to fix one of the weakest links on this team.

threetoedpete
11-08-2007, 01:37 PM
Kubiack said about two weeks ago that Spencer would not be back this season.


Well now is the time to shake things up if they are going to do it. Both with the offense and defense. If they stand pat, they are playing for draft order and choices. The problem is at this point, they are guessing at what they do have in the o-line guys. It's very educated guess. But they need some snaps. If for nothing else to find out what is and is not a critical need of '08.

badboy
11-08-2007, 01:39 PM
While I haven't seen White get many snaps, I really hope that the coaching staff gets him more involved the second half of the season. The coaches raved about this guy in the off-season and all indications are that he has held his own in the limited action seen. The drop-off at center since Steve went down has been noticeable, so I am not sure that we lose too much by getting this guy in the mix.

If White were to prove able to assume the starters responsibilities, we have a lot of options going into next season. Studdard and Frye both needed a season to grow and learn the professional level, but both of these guys, together with Spencer's return gives us another three young guys with the opportunity to solidify this line. Despite popular thought, we have drafted young talent at this spot, but the OL players take some time to develop and injuries have hurt us, so hopefully with a year of seasoning at the professional level, one or two of these guys prove to be worth the draft pick. I don't know anything about Frye, but I did see Studdard play for four years at UT and I believe that he has what it takes to push for playing time.

You have to believe we either bring in a solid veteran OR use a first day pick to bring in one more body, so with White - that would be five new players to fix one of the weakest links on this team.

Wait, wait, wait. No one has said Spencer will be back next year let alone this year. They are hopeful he will return next season, but that injury may keep him from being an effective LT if he can play at all. We seem to keep forgetting he has basically 2 games NFL experience. Sure he looked good those few plays, but do we risk Carr, er Schaub? White may win starter by end of this season but again nothing has shown that as a "gimme". I did not see last game but some said Flannagan played well. As most of you know, I am not his fan, but White has not shown much so far. I can not see LT not being addressed during draft, even if we knew C.S. was going to play LT in 08. I agree we have to pick up another solid LT in Free Agency (but who?) and imo 1st round. I have see some info that Baker may drop into 10-14 area.

barrett
11-08-2007, 01:44 PM
White looked stellar against San Diego. (despite the outcome) He came in during the first quarter when Flannigan went down with a head injury. He doesn't get much attention as the third string Center but I was very surprised to see Flannigan back under center for the Raider game. I thought it was apparent that White had done a much better job. Kubiak is a fan of Flannigan so I think Chris White has some challenges to overcome to break into that starting spot. Furthermore, Flannigan is said to have played "his best game thusfar" during that Raider game so if nothing else, maybe White will at least push Flannigan to give a hoot about his position.

Studdard would be playing if his hamstring issue hadn't come up at such a bad time. He would be getting reps for sure. Starting? I don't know, but reps for sure.

Frye, we'll see. I don't know how he fits in vs. Jordan Black but as far as I know he's the backup. I think as a swing you're the 3rd Tackle that suits and that's all that you have on game day. He seemed to go from obscurity to swing status somewhere in the last two or three weeks. We'll see how that develops.

Keep in mind as well that Pitts and Weary are only in their 6th year. The line is VERY young as a whole.

threetoedpete
11-08-2007, 01:50 PM
Wait, wait, wait. No one has said Spencer will be back next year let alone this year. They are hopeful he will return next season, but that injury may keep him from being an effective LT if he can play at all. We seem to keep forgetting he has basically 2 games NFL experience. Sure he looked good those few plays, but do we risk Carr, er Schaub? White may win starter by end of this season but again nothing has shown that as a "gimme". I did not see last game but some said Flannagan played well. As most of you know, I am not his fan, but White has not shown much so far. I can not see LT not being addressed during draft, even if we knew C.S. was going to play LT in 08. I agree we have to pick up another solid LT in Free Agency (but who?) and imo 1st round. I have see some info that Baker may drop into 10-14 area.

You are not going to find an OLT in free agency who's price tag isn't dear. You can forget that one. There is a wave currently going on at OLT in the NFL. Old gerneration out. New generation in. Just hope we are sitting on a good one when the music quits playing. Been some good prospects the last three drafts. Be another good class this year. Doesn't mean it will always be that way.

badboy
11-08-2007, 02:02 PM
You are not going to find an OLT in free agency who's price tag isn't dear. You can forget that one. There is a wave currently going on at OLT in the NFL. Old gerneration out. New generation in. Just hope we are sitting on a good one when the music quits playing. Been some good prospects the last three drafts. Be another good class this year. Doesn't mean it will always be that way.
I agree 100%, but when I said that in another thread I was soundly attacked.

Insideop
11-08-2007, 06:21 PM
Well at least that's one less position for us to draft! Now we just need an RB, LT, CB1, FS, OLB, and pass rushing DE!!!

Sorry to burst your bubble DT, but we will still need to get a Center in the Draft, FA or Trade (I prefer Draft myself). If White is the answer at Center that's great, but I don't think Flanagan will be back next year, due to his age (14th season), not being a good run blocker and being slow. McKinney may be back next season, but if he is, will he be as good? It will be his 12th year, so he has to be slowing down some, even if he didn't injure himself.

We need to start grooming a young stud Center in there in case McKinney and Flanagan don't come back next year. If they do come back, and that's a big IF at this point, we can always put the young Center on the Practice Squad. I know there's a risk of losing them, but at this point, I seriously doubt both McKinney and Flanagan will be back to play next year at 100%. I just don't see it. JMHO!

Insideop
11-08-2007, 06:56 PM
You are not going to find an OLT in free agency who's price tag isn't dear. You can forget that one. There is a wave currently going on at OLT in the NFL. Old gerneration out. New generation in. Just hope we are sitting on a good one when the music quits playing. Been some good prospects the last three drafts. Be another good class this year. Doesn't mean it will always be that way.

TTP, if we don't trade back and get extra picks, and say we get Stewart (or CB) in the 1st round, I'm thinking there will be some good LT's still out there on the board. Personally, I wouldn't mind them getting that hoss you brought up on another thread, Heath Benedict. He's flying low under the radar now, but come Combine time, he may shoot up the boards and out of range for us.

If we follow this scenario, it still leaves us without a Center or finding one in later rounds, and I think finding a Center this Offseason is as important as getting a LT. Most good Centers are usually gone by the middle of the 3rd round. So to me, it seems that it will be critical this Offseason, to find a way to pickup a 2nd rounder or another 3rd rounder, so we can get that "stud Center" we need and still get a good LT. JMHO!

Runner
11-08-2007, 10:21 PM
White looked stellar against San Diego. (despite the outcome) He came in during the first quarter when Flannigan went down with a head injury. He doesn't get much attention as the third string Center but I was very surprised to see Flannigan back under center for the Raider game.

You shouldn't have been surprised. The Texans have a history of not starting the best players they have available on the offensive line. It is part of the team culture, and a big part of the continuing o-line problems.

They probably need to fix that.

mexican_texan
11-08-2007, 10:39 PM
Flannagan knows the offense a lot better than Chris White. It's as simple as that. Add to that the fact that Rosenfels and Schaub are a lot more accustomed to taking the snap from Flannagan than from White.

barrett
11-08-2007, 11:20 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble DT, but we will still need to get a Center in the Draft, FA or Trade (I prefer Draft myself). If White is the answer at Center that's great, but I don't think Flanagan will be back next year, due to his age (14th season), not being a good run blocker and being slow. McKinney may be back next season, but if he is, will he be as good? It will be his 12th year, so he has to be slowing down some, even if he didn't injure himself.

We need to start grooming a young stud Center in there in case McKinney and Flanagan don't come back next year. If they do come back, and that's a big IF at this point, we can always put the young Center on the Practice Squad. I know there's a risk of losing them, but at this point, I seriously doubt both McKinney and Flanagan will be back to play next year at 100%. I just don't see it. JMHO!

TTP,If we follow this scenario, it still leaves us without a Center or finding one in later rounds, and I think finding a Center this Offseason is as important as getting a LT. Most good Centers are usually gone by the middle of the 3rd round. So to me, it seems that it will be critical this Offseason, to find a way to pickup a 2nd rounder or another 3rd rounder, so we can get that "stud Center" we need and still get a good LT. JMHO!



Are ya'll not paying attention?!? This kid is gonna be great! I think there is some truth to the fact that his playbook knowledge may be limited, not to mention that Flannigan has his spot in Kubiak's eye. But Flannigan is 86 years old... and SUCKS! McKinney will be back next year and White will be competing for that job. I guarantee it!

Rex King
11-08-2007, 11:38 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure about White. TBH, I thought he played okay against SD, but wasn't blown away. He has to call the protections, and his inexperience could hurt there. If Flannagan had had a poor game against the Raiders, I'm sure we would have seen the kid. But we're still in "win" mode, not fall 40-man mode yet.

threetoedpete
11-09-2007, 02:12 AM
TTP, if we don't trade back and get extra picks, and say we get Stewart (or CB) in the 1st round, I'm thinking there will be some good LT's still out there on the board. Personally, I wouldn't mind them getting that hoss you brought up on another thread, Heath Benedict. He's flying low under the radar now, but come Combine time, he may shoot up the boards and out of range for us.

If we follow this scenario, it still leaves us without a Center or finding one in later rounds, and I think finding a Center this Offseason is as important as getting a LT. Most good Centers are usually gone by the middle of the 3rd round. So to me, it seems that it will be critical this Offseason, to find a way to pickup a 2nd rounder or another 3rd rounder, so we can get that "stud Center" we need and still get a good LT. JMHO!

I don't believe they'll get the trade down deal. The Mocks I'm seeing and agreed they are very early....everyone is going to get healthy if they stand pat...including the Texans. What you are saying posting a move down scenario is saying someone is going to lose their minds over prospect and make us an offer. Or...we move back at a lesser value and keep moving back untill the need and the BPA meet. What you are giving up by doing this is
precieved tallent value. After seeing all three....I don't give a good GD who they select out of Smith of Oklahoma or the two Jenkins. The Jenkins out of South florida is not an Einstien, But he plugs a hole. All three are 4.4 CB guys who support the run and are big enough to paly FS. But what I'm posting is you're not going to get a second (700 point value) to move down this year. Pick any mock you want. Notice the names you see that the draft nicks have slipping into the second.... there is a lot of bloody tallent on this draft board...It's a sellers market. The only weak poition I see is elite DTs. There are rotation guys at Dt all over the board.

Agreed. You don't have to pick one in the first round. All that does is lessen the bust factor. But there are only so many 300 pound guys who have the numbers to attempt to be put out on that island at OLT. I mean the last four weeks the Bills just didn't suddenly get the tallent pills passed around to thier o-lineman. Jason Peters is developing in to a fine young OLT guy.
That was the same time we were arguing in here on whether or not Seth Wand or Pitts should be our starting OLT. Well guess what , while the Texans were sctaching their collective buts, Peters developed into something. Our Peters is out. Hasn't played a down in twenty games and counting. You tell me. Has he developed ? The big question on our plates is how long you can wait ? Or are we going to push all of our chips into the middle of the table on Salaam/Spencer soap opera ? Your QB just got knocked around and has concussion number one on his plate. He has four more in the tank. You tell me how much longer they can wait ? Gotta kid outta Aurburn everyone is going to stay way from with a ten foot pole because of attitude issues. Got the Newberry Kid. Tony Hills of Texas. I mean your correct, the guys are out there. Just gotta nut up and pick them.

They also gotta decide are we staying with the Green Bay power running game ? If they are they gotta find one guy they can trust to get out into space and knock someone down in the dirt. 'Cuase I'm teling you right now we ain't getting that from our gaurds. I mean the money in that system is the Rb-TEs on the screens. And if we don't have anyone blocking on the screens..... Salaam sat on someone and sprung ol' earth worm seacher for a big gain in the Oakland game. I'm sorry , but the Gaurds are MIA on anything that invovels execusion on the edge with movement involved.

But what happens every draft they try to plug several holes and make do with the o-line. Well form my tree it ain't working. Try something else. Our five fingers do not make a fist. They make a wicker basket. And we already lost one QB prospect through the holes and they are working over number two.

Pitts and Weary are getting older. And it's been awhile since you've seen either make a clean block out on the edge or in space. I mean don't tell me how good they are. They are not playing it this season. HC has got to start the young ones. See what we got and what we need. Still say Frye is your center prospect. Bt untill he plays you don't know.

Now why they are being stuborn about Flanagan I don't know. He can't play. They run across weaken DT situations, they'll do ok. They come across the beasts of the league, they'll get their clocks cleaned. that 0-3 in the division is there for a reason. Every game we've run across a tallented healthy big guy in the middle, we've gotten killed.

Every game they don't monkey around with the o-line tells me the guys we have backing up are not NFL propects and we're in trouble. He's doing the same thing with these guys as he did with the back up recievers. They won't know untill the guys get some snaps. Guess what Walter, Davis and Anderson don't suck. They just needed some targets.

Now they draft they draft the CB first or the studly Rb, won't argue that those aren't a need. I really doubt that this HC throws the new RB under the bus. If anything his devotion to Flanagan says he will play it just the oposite way. He stuck on Spencer and Salaam. I've seen nothing yet that says he will suddenly change RBs in the middle of the new RBs new contract. Have you ? Now if we're talking cratlidge...that's something else. But I haven't seen that posted anywhere yet. Have you ?

But I'm telling you we're not going to catch the Colts if they don't improve the tallent on the o-line. I'm not and Edgar Casey. I've watched it pluged and patched for five years and it hasn't worked yet. And it won't work in '08 either. they gotta draft some o-lineman. The higher the better in my book.

threetoedpete
11-09-2007, 03:23 AM
One more thingy. There are only so many 300 pound guys who can kick slide and pick up an elite speed rusher. You're looking for guys very low in regaurds to forty times and cone drills. Doesn't mean they can play, means there is an indication of a tallent level there that meets the position needs. Guy's putting up 5.3's or poor cone drill times, that there tihingy is a RT/gaurd prospect. You look it up. There are only so many of those guys on the board who meet the position requirments every year.

Couch Potatoe
11-09-2007, 07:58 AM
So at what point do the Texans bite the bullet and draft a stud LT? Year after year we keep talking about how poor I oline is and yet they keep putting a bandaid on the problem.

So what's more important on your oline a stud LT or bruising center? If we could draft another LT (I get tired of hearing that) and get one more season from McKinney at center, would that solidify our line for one season?

Isn't it easier to pick up a corner, LB, &/or safety in free agency vs. a LT or center without breaking the bank?

Insideop
11-09-2007, 05:19 PM
Are ya'll not paying attention?!? This kid is gonna be great! I think there is some truth to the fact that his playbook knowledge may be limited, not to mention that Flannigan has his spot in Kubiak's eye. But Flannigan is 86 years old... and SUCKS! McKinney will be back next year and White will be competing for that job. I guarantee it!


I think you need to pay attention! First off, I said if White is the answer at Center, that's great! But, my whole point is, do we want to go into next season with White and 2 very old and oft injured backups? You even stated in your post that "Flanagan is 86 years old... and SUCKS!" And, can you guarantee that McKinney will be back next year or even be at 100%?

All I'm saying is we need to start grooming a young "stud" Center now so we can have somebody ready to go when White goes down and Flanagan and McKinney can no longer play (Which may be next season!). It usually takes several years for a Center to develop into a good player. JMHO!

Spike
11-10-2007, 10:03 AM
Wait, wait, wait. No one has said Spencer will be back next year let alone this year. They are hopeful he will return next season, but that injury may keep him from being an effective LT if he can play at all. We seem to keep forgetting he has basically 2 games NFL experience. Sure he looked good those few plays, but do we risk Carr, er Schaub? White may win starter by end of this season but again nothing has shown that as a "gimme". I did not see last game but some said Flannagan played well. As most of you know, I am not his fan, but White has not shown much so far. I can not see LT not being addressed during draft, even if we knew C.S. was going to play LT in 08. I agree we have to pick up another solid LT in Free Agency (but who?) and imo 1st round. I have see some info that Baker may drop into 10-14 area.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, my point is that - given the opportunity - we could have some missing peices of the puzzle. Sure, Flannagan may have had a better game against the Raiders, but do we really think he is the long term answer? Flannagan may have the edge against White today, but we need to get White more snaps to determine what the up-side will be. Maybe Spencer won't ever be an effective LT, but maybe he can be pushed over to guard?

IMO, I would rather see us shuffle things around and take some chances to determine if we can fill some holes - rather than just hoping that we can fix this problem solely through the draft and free agency.