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tulexan
11-06-2007, 11:27 AM
Haven't seen anyone comment on this

Williams lined up as an outside linebacker three times against the Raiders and excelled in that situation. There seemed to be more explosiveness and he seemed to see the field better. It helped the defense, mostly because it caught the Raiders somewhat off guard. If the Texans do it more often, it might not be as effective. Keep your eye on Williams, though. He will probably be taking his hands off the field more often.

http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/11/kubiak_praises_williams_should.html

TEXANS84
11-06-2007, 11:30 AM
Woah, never noticed that during the game.

TexansLucky13
11-06-2007, 11:35 AM
Need Vinny to review the game tape and tell us if this is accurate or not.

Texan_Bill
11-06-2007, 11:36 AM
I didn't really notice him line up as an OL either... But, just because the DE is in a 2 point stance, doesn't make him a linebacker... Heck, there was a time when many DE's came off the ball in a 2 point stance..

Double Barrel
11-06-2007, 11:36 AM
whoah, Mario a 3-4 LB....can you imagine?! :whistle:

powerfuldragon
11-06-2007, 11:40 AM
whoah, Mario a 3-4 LB....can you imagine?! :whistle:
locomotive

nunusguy
11-06-2007, 11:42 AM
We've got another active thread that goes into this topic, but I didn't realize
Mario was "behind" the LOS as opposed to being on the LOS when he was upright at the time the ball was snapped.
Now putting him at LB is a whole different thing, but then many argue he's really out of poisition as a 4-3 DE, especially on the weakside since he played strongside in college and because of his size is more suited for the strongside.
But as an OLB in a 3-4, that's got possibilities. Course many say he should be a DE (with his hand down), in a 3-4.
Take your pick ?

False Start
11-06-2007, 11:45 AM
I didn't notice that . It may have some promise to it if true .

HOU-TEX
11-06-2007, 11:46 AM
Richard Smith did something unconventional?? No way!!:gun:

Freakin %$#@face. :bat:

Mr. White
11-06-2007, 12:02 PM
I was listening to Kubes' show last night on 610 and they mentioned him lining up with his hand off the ground a few times. Kubes agreed that he seemed more explosive and that it was something that they would do more often.

They never said anything about him lining up at OLB.

Maybe they'll pull a Greg Ellis with him. That seemed to work out all right for the Cowboys.

Dallas_Texan
11-06-2007, 12:05 PM
Haven't seen anyone comment on this



http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/11/kubiak_praises_williams_should.html


I LOVE IT!! At least we're trying something different. I don't care if you put Kris Brown in at FS, just TRY something different from time to time. :texflag:

I think we need to take advantage of the fact that Kalu can still do some damage, and move Mario around a little. They still have to account for Okoye too!

BigBull17
11-06-2007, 12:21 PM
Sounds good. He can play a little like Jason Taylor. You never know where he will come from. If it works, why not. My buddy and I said maybe we could throw out some 3-4 every now and then. You have some guys who could play Dt and 3-4 ends, put Mario and Orr at OLB, and Meco and Greenwood/Clark at middle. Not every down, but maybe a few times a game.

Dallas_Texan
11-06-2007, 12:30 PM
Sounds good. He can play a little like Jason Taylor. You never know where he will come from. If it works, why not. My buddy and I said maybe we could throw out some 3-4 every now and then. You have some guys who could play Dt and 3-4 ends, put Mario and Orr at OLB, and Meco and Greenwood/Clark at middle. Not every down, but maybe a few times a game.

BigBull for DC !!!

Ole Miss Texan
11-06-2007, 12:33 PM
I'm all for trying things differently but to choose a Linebacker as the #1 overall pick?????

tulexan
11-06-2007, 12:35 PM
I'm all for trying things differently but to choose a Linebacker as the #1 overall pick?????

This is setting up us taking Chris Long this year in the first round

awtysst
11-06-2007, 12:38 PM
I'm all for trying things differently but to choose a Linebacker as the #1 overall pick?????

Lawrence Taylor was number 2 in 1981. Merriman was 12 in 2005. Vilma was 12 in 04, Urlacher 9 in 2000.
If he excels and becomes the monster we thought, why not. I say put him in the best place to succeed. Its narrow minded to say that just because he is a number 1 he should not be a LB. Who cares where he plays as long as he contributes and makes big plays.

marks01234
11-06-2007, 12:54 PM
I'm all for trying things differently but to choose a Linebacker as the #1 overall pick?????

Your right

At this point, he should only remain at the DE position or move to LT.:gun:

gtexan02
11-06-2007, 01:02 PM
Lawrence Taylor was number 2 in 1981. Merriman was 12 in 2005. Vilma was 12 in 04, Urlacher 9 in 2000.
If he excels and becomes the monster we thought, why not. I say put him in the best place to succeed. Its narrow minded to say that just because he is a number 1 he should not be a LB. Who cares where he plays as long as he contributes and makes big plays.

Actually, I think OMT has a point. There are certain players you just don't draft with the 1st overall pick. Williams was sold to us as the next great pass rushing DE. Those are hard to find. If he transitions into an average OLB, thats a failure. An OLB who is strong against the run is not worthy of a 1st overall choice. I bet Williams is horrible in pass coverage as well

He has the physical gifts to be a success. Get some coaches who can actually utilize him in the role he was supposed to suceed at instead of trying to backfit him to make up for their poor schemes.

Errant Hothy
11-06-2007, 01:06 PM
Actually, I think OMT has a point. There are certain players you just don't draft with the 1st overall pick. Williams was sold to us as the next great pass rushing DE. Those are hard to find. If he transitions into an average OLB, thats a failure. An OLB who is strong against the run is not worthy of a 1st overall choice. I bet Williams is horrible in pass coverage as well

He has the physical gifts to be a success. Get some coaches who can actually utilize him in the role he was supposed to suceed at instead of trying to backfit him to make up for their poor schemes.

Yeah, but just because he rushes from a 2 point stance a couple times a game does not make him an OLB, And we all know that, and we all know that there is about 0 chance that Mario will be made into a full time OLB.

It's just the same ******* people stirring the same ******* pot about the ******* 2006 draft; and I really wish it would stop.

And why does it matter where he lines up, as long as he gets in the backfield and makes palys, or allowd others to make plays.

markn
11-06-2007, 01:12 PM
I'm all for trying things differently but to choose a Linebacker as the #1 overall pick?????

At this stage, if there's a crime, it's that he was drafted #1 overall, not that he may convert to OLB. Mario at #1 was probably a mistake, let's move on and get the most out of him.

Errant Hothy
11-06-2007, 01:13 PM
At this stage, if there's a crime, it's that he was drafted #1 overall, not that he may convert to OLB. Mario at #1 was probably a mistake, let's move on and get the most out of him.

Going by stats the first 3 picks in 06 were all crimes.

bah007
11-06-2007, 01:16 PM
Actually, I think OMT has a point. There are certain players you just don't draft with the 1st overall pick. Williams was sold to us as the next great pass rushing DE. Those are hard to find. If he transitions into an average OLB, thats a failure. An OLB who is strong against the run is not worthy of a 1st overall choice. I bet Williams is horrible in pass coverage as well

He has the physical gifts to be a success. Get some coaches who can actually utilize him in the role he was supposed to suceed at instead of trying to backfit him to make up for their poor schemes.

We could use him like the Cowboys use Ware. Send him on every play, just from different sides.

Double Barrel
11-06-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm all for trying things differently but to choose a Linebacker as the #1 overall pick?????

31 teams probably wish they had taken DeMeco Ryans in the first round of 2006.

Same year Green Bay took A.J. Hawk in the first round, too.

markn
11-06-2007, 01:27 PM
Going by stats the first 3 picks in 06 were all crimes.

Indeed. At the time I was a huge advocate of trading down. You could quite easily argue that the most successful draftee from 2006 so far was #30.

badboy
11-06-2007, 01:34 PM
Forget this. I want to know if we can play him at RB in red zone. He does not know how to run over anyone but he might be able to slide down tacklers and get into the end zone. He is definitely worth #1 if he can get 5-6 sacks as DE, switch to OLB and get another 3-4 and then score two TDs as an RB. He is a mite light for LT as someone suggested but maybe tight end?

He was signed as a DE. Play him there.

Errant Hothy
11-06-2007, 01:35 PM
Forget this. I want to know if we can play him at RB in red zone. He does not know how to run over anyone but he might be able to slide down tacklers and get into the end zone. He is definitely worth #1 if he can get 5-6 sacks as DE, switch to OLB and get another 3-4 and then score two TDs as an RB. He is a mite light for LT as someone suggested but maybe tight end?
He was signed as a DE. Play him there.

The next Mike Vrabel?

badboy
11-06-2007, 02:16 PM
The next Mike Vrabel?He might not seek the ground as fast as Dayne anyway.

TexansSeminole
11-06-2007, 02:20 PM
Mario doesn't have the agility to play OLB even in a 3-4.

Jason Taylor has alot more quickness than Mario and that is one of the reason it works for him. Another reason is that Jason Taylor is a relentless pass rusher.

This sounds like a really bad idea to me. He is like 300 pounds and people complain about his quickness at DE, imagine at OLB.

It may work if all he did was blitz from that spot, which defeats the whole purpose considering you are trying to confuse the defense not give them a hint about what you are doing.

Ole Miss Texan
11-06-2007, 02:23 PM
If he excels and becomes the monster we thought, why not. I say put him in the best place to succeed. Its narrow minded to say that just because he is a number 1 he should not be a LB. Who cares where he plays as long as he contributes and makes big plays.

This is where we have a different view point. We want him to excel and become the monster we thought he would be at DE! We have had this discussion over an over about how Kubiak wants to generate a good pass rush from the front 4 and not the front 7. We have to get a consistent pass rush from our DL and that's where Mario is going to stay. If he lines up as an OLB for a few plays so be it...that means he's versitile...but to spend the #1 overall pick on a LB is not the wisest investment.

31 teams probably wish they had taken DeMeco Ryans in the first round of 2006.

Same year Green Bay took A.J. Hawk in the first round, too.

Yes you're right, but that doesn't address the fact that choosing Mario to play LB at #1 overall is a waste. AJ Hawk was picked #5 overall by Green Bay. I'm sure 31 teams wish they picked Maquis Colston in the 6th round....so be it.

The point is that when you have the #1 overall pick and you have a plethora of holes you're not getting the best VALUE by choosing Mario #1 for LB. Again, a few times a game...cool. Full time? no. If you want to build a really good LB corps you can easily do that a smarter way that would give you more value per pick.

IlliniJen
11-06-2007, 02:23 PM
I know many of us wish they had a working flux capacitor so they could travel back to the 2006 draft in order to warn Casserly and Kubiak that Mario may not be the best #1 pick. Right now, I don't know if Bush or VY were worthy of that spot either. Maaaaaaybe Bush with the way he's stepped up a bit with Deuce's absense.

But play Mario where he makes the most impact. If it's not at DE, then shame on us, we made a bad choice, but there's really no way applying a "you don't draft LB as the first pick!" argument makes much of a difference if that's what the team chooses to do (which they likely won't).

Make the most out of the PLAYER, not make the most out of a PICK POSITION that occurred 2 years ago.

Ole Miss Texan
11-06-2007, 02:29 PM
Make the most out of the PLAYER, not make the most out of a PICK POSITION that occurred 2 years ago.

This is a good post and a great point...

However I think getting the most from Mario for our Defense is at DE. I think him as a full time OLB would be a huge mistake. Put him there every now and then and tell him what he needs to do during those plays, if you want. But Mario wouldn't make a good every down LB.

TexansSeminole
11-06-2007, 02:30 PM
I know many of us wish they had a working flux capacitor so they could travel back to the 2006 draft in order to warn Casserly and Kubiak that Mario may not be the best #1 pick. Right now, I don't know if Bush or VY were worthy of that spot either. Maaaaaaybe Bush with the way he's stepped up a bit with Deuce's absense.

But play Mario where he makes the most impact. If it's not at DE, then shame on us, we made a bad choice, but there's really no way applying a "you don't draft LB as the first pick!" argument makes much of a difference if that's what the team chooses to do (which they likely won't).

Make the most out of the PLAYER, not make the most out of a PICK POSITION that occurred 2 years ago.

For sure, I agree with this.

I would probably quit watching the Texans until they got new coaches if they decided to move Mario to OLB. Seems like a horrible idea.

HOU-TEX
11-06-2007, 02:33 PM
I know this is kind of off topic, but does anybody else find it odd that TJ is the only one that bats balls down at the LOS? Mario is probably 5 yards behind the QB at that time, but what about the rest of them?
:d:
Sorry about the random thought. :)

bah007
11-06-2007, 03:19 PM
I know this is kind of off topic, but does anybody else find it odd that TJ is the only one that bats balls down at the LOS? Mario is probably 5 yards behind the QB at that time, but what about the rest of them?
:d:
Sorry about the random thought. :)

Well its hard for Weaver to bat the ball from his back.

The1ApplePie
11-06-2007, 04:11 PM
This reminds me:

Why did we switch from the 3-4 in the first place?

I don't think Mario has the football intelligence or agility to play OLB except for rushing the passer directly. He could be a good 3-4 DE though, with his size and strength

Yankee_In_TX
11-06-2007, 04:12 PM
The next Mike Vrabel?

Best Buckeye EVER.

Texan_Bill
11-06-2007, 04:18 PM
Best Buckeye EVER.

Make up your mind.. I thought it was Archie Griffin?!?

Specnatz
11-06-2007, 04:41 PM
Make up your mind.. I thought it was Archie Griffin?!?

I thought it was Maurice Clarrett?

:specnatz:

Texans_Chick
11-06-2007, 05:00 PM
Forget this. I want to know if we can play him at RB in red zone. He does not know how to run over anyone but he might be able to slide down tacklers and get into the end zone. He is definitely worth #1 if he can get 5-6 sacks as DE, switch to OLB and get another 3-4 and then score two TDs as an RB. He is a mite light for LT as someone suggested but maybe tight end?

He was signed as a DE. Play him there.

When he was at NC State they had him do a lot of different things. Including playing some outside linebacker once in a while.

I'm okay with making the Texans defense a little less predictable.

Vinny
11-06-2007, 05:25 PM
When you start experimenting with guys in "new" positions its a sign that you are having to be creative to get somethng out of the player...not a good sign at first glance imo

Mr teX
11-06-2007, 05:27 PM
When you start experimenting with guys in "new" positions its a sign that you are having to be creative to get somethng out of the player...not a good sign at first glance imo

Or the scheme with the personnel you have..

Vinny
11-06-2007, 05:34 PM
Or the scheme with the personnel you have..
The "scheme" for a weakside DE isn't very complex. "get after the QB", protect the edge, and chase the back for the backside cutback isn't exactly the Pythagorean theorem.

Mr teX
11-06-2007, 05:44 PM
The "scheme" for a weakside DE isn't very complex. "get after the QB", protect the edge, and chase the back for the backside cutback isn't exactly the Pythagorean theorem.

oh if the game were only that simple......

maybe he looked back at his secondary after dunta went down & thought we definitely can't cover anything back there now, man or cover 2 shell, i've got to find a way to get more pressure to help out my secondary a bit more. & since Mario's the only D-linemen they have that could pull off the D-ware type playing.....

Texans_Chick
11-06-2007, 05:50 PM
When you start experimenting with guys in "new" positions its a sign that you are having to be creative to get somethng out of the player...not a good sign at first glance imo

Never know.

One of the things that they said about him when they drafted him was that he was versatile and could do different things.

And then when they tried that all at once, they thought he got confused, so they decided to put him at one spot (mostly decided by where Anthony Weaver could play).

But then, they moved him around some. I think some of the experimentation comes from the defensive schemes being too predictable.

White Runningback
11-06-2007, 06:26 PM
When you start experimenting with guys in "new" positions its a sign that you are having to be creative to get somethng out of the player...not a good sign at first glance imo

My sentiment exactly.

Vinny
11-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Never know.

One of the things that they said about him when they drafted him was that he was versatile and could do different things.

And then when they tried that all at once, they thought he got confused, so they decided to put him at one spot (mostly decided by where Anthony Weaver could play).

But then, they moved him around some. I think some of the experimentation comes from the defensive schemes being too predictable.
or it could have been he didn't do anything well...so they went back to concentrating on playing just one spot poorly.

just being a bit sarcastic. :)


Lots of problems on this team bigger than Mario not playing like a difference maker. Mario has at least not been a total bust (like you know who)....I still consider him a work in progress.

Thorn
11-06-2007, 06:48 PM
Never know.

One of the things that they said about him when they drafted him was that he was versatile and could do different things.

Whatever it takes to win games is fine with me. I don't care if they line Mario up as a tight end, as long as we start winning games.

IlliniJen
11-06-2007, 10:29 PM
For sure, I agree with this.

I would probably quit watching the Texans until they got new coaches if they decided to move Mario to OLB. Seems like a horrible idea.

I don't necessarily disagree with this.

BUT, riddle me this...if in 2-3 years Mario is getting the same type of stats he's getting now and not turning into the stud at DE and it seems he may make more of an impact in some sort of LB position, what do you do then?

If I were writing the checks for the Texans, I would hire a coach just for Mario and teach him something other than the bullrush. Add a little variation to his game with some moves.

TexansSeminole
11-06-2007, 10:29 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with this.

BUT, riddle me this...if in 2-3 years Mario is getting the same type of stats he's getting now and not turning into the stud at DE and it seems he may make more of an impact in some sort of LB position, what do you do then?

If I were writing the checks for the Texans, I would hire a coach just for Mario and teach him something other than the bullrush. Add a little variation to his game with some moves.

Put the guy wherever he will be the most successful. But the guy is 300 pounds. He will not play OLB successfully.

tulexan
11-06-2007, 10:44 PM
Put the guy wherever he will be the most successful. But the guy is 300 pounds. He will not play OLB successfully.

Adalius Thomas is 270. I don't see why Mario couldn't do it.

Wolf
11-06-2007, 10:44 PM
Put the guy wherever he will be the most successful. But the guy is 300 pounds. He will not play OLB successfully.

I don't know, some on carolina's board are complaining about Peppers and his productivity this year, Mario and him are pretty even.

I am not saying mario is peppers (he has proven himself) but wonder what is going on . scheme? players around him? offense not doing enough to make another team one dimensional so the defense can do what is best


just brainstorming here

Runner
11-06-2007, 11:51 PM
The "scheme" for a weakside DE isn't very complex. "get after the QB", protect the edge, and chase the back for the backside cutback isn't exactly the Pythagorean theorem.

Ouch. What is that - 6th grade math?

BigBull17
11-07-2007, 12:25 PM
BigBull for DC !!!

I accept. Cant do much worse can I?

BigBull17
11-07-2007, 12:27 PM
I know many of us wish they had a working flux capacitor so they could travel back to the 2006 draft in order to warn Casserly and Kubiak that Mario may not be the best #1 pick. Right now, I don't know if Bush or VY were worthy of that spot either. Maaaaaaybe Bush with the way he's stepped up a bit with Deuce's absense.

But play Mario where he makes the most impact. If it's not at DE, then shame on us, we made a bad choice, but there's really no way applying a "you don't draft LB as the first pick!" argument makes much of a difference if that's what the team chooses to do (which they likely won't).

Make the most out of the PLAYER, not make the most out of a PICK POSITION that occurred 2 years ago.

The best of the bunch is Demeco Ryans. Id take him number one...

adam
11-07-2007, 06:51 PM
I noticed it. I thought he performed exceptionally in the two-point stance. Who knows, maybe we can move him to OLB and play a 3-4 defense? Historically speaking, it is harder to produce against. Any sort of a change would help at this point. We seem to give up at least one huge pass a game and too many rushing yards. Change it up Smith!