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badboy
10-31-2007, 03:29 PM
Charles Spencer: May not make it back as a left tackle & little evidence to support he could be the guy in 2008.

Salaam: Like it or not he is the starter this year. No one has beat him out.

Winston: He is steady at RT. Would you give him a shot?

Pitts: Rarely misses a game and has played LT. Has the contract already.

A draft pick like Ryan Clady that should be available: How are the two stud LTs taken recently in first round doing? A mid to high first round LT is not a guaranteed starter and may need 2-3 years to come into his own.

A free agent: uh, who? Victor Riley types. Most of quality probably will re-sign.

Other options I may have missed for this demanding spot?

Ole Miss Texan
10-31-2007, 03:36 PM
You missed Jordan Black and Brandon Frye......yikes. Looks like another long year with Salaam.

badboy
10-31-2007, 03:56 PM
You missed Jordan Black and Brandon Frye......yikes. Looks like another long year with Salaam.Neither has a shot at being the starter.

3andOUT
10-31-2007, 04:00 PM
Charles Spencer: May not make it back as a left tackle & little evidence to support he could be the guy in 2008.

Salaam: Like it or not he is the starter this year. No one has beat him out.

Winston: He is steady at RT. Would you give him a shot?

Pitts: Rarely misses a game and has played LT. Has the contract already.

A draft pick like Ryan Clady that should be available: How are the two stud LTs taken recently in first round doing? A mid to high first round LT is not a guaranteed starter and may need 2-3 years to come into his own.

A free agent: uh, who? Victor Riley types. Most of quality probably will re-sign.

Other options I may have missed for this demanding spot?

I hope Spence can come back and pick up where he left off before Ronny Dayne mounted him, but obviously you're going to have to make a tough decision with him on whether he can come back or whether you need to find another LT.

I am definitely not in favor of taking a 2nd year guy who has just cracked the starting lineup and gotten comfortable in his position and moving him to the opposite side where he has to learn new angles and technique. Plus you typically face the best end on the left side of the offense and I'm not sure how he handles facing those guys on a consistent basis.

Pitts has never been more than okay at LT, but I would consider putting him there if you can get a better interior lineman in the draft or FA.

The line is more about getting guys on the same page, knowing eachother's tendencies and working together as a unit than it is about individual greatness. They need to get a decent line and let them fight together for an extended period of time and I think you will see tons of improvement. You can't just keep taking guys out and throwing other guys in and expect to be better as a unit.

dalemurphy
10-31-2007, 04:16 PM
You missed Jordan Black and Brandon Frye......yikes. Looks like another long year with Salaam.


Charles Spencer
Jordan Black
Rashod Butler
Brandon Frye
Eric Winston
Chester Pitts
Salaam
F.A.
Draft pick

YoungTexanFan
10-31-2007, 04:30 PM
I'm in favor of trying Winston at LT. He was a top 10 type talent, the best in his class at LT before his injury. Obviously it took him a while to recover, but his instinct and coaching at Miami has no gone anywhere. He is a very capable OT, and I think he could play LT at a very solid level for us next year.

Ole Miss Texan
10-31-2007, 06:27 PM
It's not like Winston is playing the RT position lights out...given he's a 2nd year 3rd round pick he's obviously doing good.

Is there any chance Winston is BETTER at LT than RT? I'd like to see the coaches play with this in practice.

nunusguy
10-31-2007, 06:42 PM
Is there any chance Winston is BETTER at LT than RT? I'd like to see the coaches play with this in practice.

We've got some guys who hang around this Board who say Winston is more of a LT than a RT because he's athletic, he's more of a finesse type than the
more power type players who tend to play on the strong-side (right) side of the OLine. And they campaign regularly for him to be moved to LT next year.

painekiller
10-31-2007, 10:08 PM
and coaching at Miami has no gone anywhere.

OK I agree with you about giving Winston a chance at LT. But the knock on him and the reason he dropped in the draft was a twofold, one was slow feet, in the senior bowl his feet appeared to be cemented to the field, now part of that could have been his injury not having the full time to recover.

The second knock was his total lack of technique. He was bullying lesser talent in college. Again the senior bowl exposed his lack of coaching.

When the Texans drafted him and pigeoned holed him into the RT position they also set him back with regard to his comfort zone. He was asked to move and then do everything backwards, that is hard to do. Some guys can do it seamlessly and others take time.

All that said, he is my first option, Pitts is my second option, lets see what Frye has to offer, and go from there. I would look very hard at OT in the 1st round of the draft, after a trade down, under current rankings and trade charts we could get Ryan Clady and a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

I am not counting on Spencer to make it back to LT, I hope he can still play some OL position for us.

BTW I like the idea of trying Frye at OC. Why not?

V Man
11-01-2007, 09:27 AM
If we would have gone after Gather in the Sup. Draft like we should have, we wouldn't be having this problem. Sorry I know that it is too late to be crying about this, but it still erks me that we could have had him for our third rounder (there won't be anyone close to that talent when we draft this year).

badboy
11-01-2007, 09:42 AM
OK I agree with you about giving Winston a chance at LT. But the knock on him and the reason he dropped in the draft was a twofold, one was slow feet, in the senior bowl his feet appeared to be cemented to the field, now part of that could have been his injury not having the full time to recover.

The second knock was his total lack of technique. He was bullying lesser talent in college. Again the senior bowl exposed his lack of coaching.

When the Texans drafted him and pigeoned holed him into the RT position they also set him back with regard to his comfort zone. He was asked to move and then do everything backwards, that is hard to do. Some guys can do it seamlessly and others take time.

All that said, he is my first option, Pitts is my second option, lets see what Frye has to offer, and go from there. I would look very hard at OT in the 1st round of the draft, after a trade down, under current rankings and trade charts we could get Ryan Clady and a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

I am not counting on Spencer to make it back to LT, I hope he can still play some OL position for us.

BTW I like the idea of trying Frye at OC. Why not?

If you are right and we can swap first and pick up a 2nd and a 3rd. I say "done deal". Which do you think would benefit us more, swap firsts and get another (Dallas) first or swapping and getting a 2nd & 3rd? I realize it is difficult as not knowing where any picks would be. Just an interesting idea as I understand the first three rounds offer more talent than last year and we did very well then.

beerlover
11-01-2007, 09:42 AM
Jake Long, Michigan could still be available when the Texans select or trade down, add a 2nd rd. pick (Center Alex Mack, Cal) & pick Ryan Clady, Boise State, that would provide instant infusion to the O-Line :bowser:

Yankee_In_TX
11-01-2007, 09:48 AM
If we draft an LT, and Spencer comes back and plays well, how easily could they adjust to playing a guard? Or RT and cold Winston play guard?

IE IMO it's time to stop banking on unkown injuries and draft, ASSUMING if Spencer does come back we wouldn't be wasting a player.

badboy
11-01-2007, 09:59 AM
If we draft an LT, and Spencer comes back and plays well, how easily could they adjust to playing a guard? Or RT and cold Winston play guard?

IE IMO it's time to stop banking on unkown injuries and draft, ASSUMING if Spencer does come back we wouldn't be wasting a player.That is an assumption I do not want to make. I want the best tackle we can draft, if Long is available I get him. I think I saw a mock showing him going 1st pick. If he is not available and keep in mind the picks of LT in upper first round have not set the world on fire, I would hope someone would trade with us. I am open to an RB but only two are worth a top ten pick, McFadden and Jonathan Stewart. Some like Ray Rice but I have not seen any mention of him recently.

We seem to forget Spencer looked good but only played in a few games. We may be projecting too much even if he comes back 100% healthy. Our O line is so bad, we should go for LT even if C.S. comes back.

Texans Horror
11-01-2007, 10:03 AM
The LT needs to be fixed with a resounding slam dunk in the draft. The position is that critical. I don't think it should be fixed with a developmental guy, unless the guy is already in house and will be on the field next September. I'll beat my dead horse and say I don't want the Texans to try another free agent at left tackle. I have yet to see it work well, and I think they need to try a new tactic.

First round, trade up if need be. Get the best or second-best tackle coming out of the NCAAs. Somebody who is as ready to play as a draft pick can be.

Texans Horror
11-01-2007, 10:05 AM
If we draft an LT, and Spencer comes back and plays well, how easily could they adjust to playing a guard? Or RT and cold Winston play guard?

IE IMO it's time to stop banking on unkown injuries and draft, ASSUMING if Spencer does come back we wouldn't be wasting a player.

Just me, but I really don't think Spencer's coming back. Even if he does, I think he won't make final cuts next year. Too bad of an injury and too much time on the sidelines.

Yankee_In_TX
11-01-2007, 10:06 AM
We seem to forget Spencer looked good but only played in a few games. We may be projecting too much even if he comes back 100% healthy. Our O line is so bad, we should go for LT even if C.S. comes back.


My question is can an LT play RT and can a RT/LT switch to guard?

I'm all for drafting an LT, but what happens to Spencer if he comes back and wins the LT job or wins a starting job but not LT?

The1ApplePie
11-01-2007, 10:44 AM
They need to take an LT, but will they? Nope

Its going to be an RB or a CB, someone McNair can market

Texans Horror
11-01-2007, 11:07 AM
My question is can an LT play RT and can a RT/LT switch to guard?

I'm all for drafting an LT, but what happens to Spencer if he comes back and wins the LT job or wins a starting job but not LT?

Supposedly, on the Texans they can do that and more. Most of the players are on the roster because they are swing players, though I have only seen McKinney "swing" to other positions.

What I have heard is that changing from one side of the ball to the other is difficult for offensive linemen. It's retraining your thinking process and the movements of hands and feet.

It is possible to switch, but very difficult and not normally recommended.

badboy
11-01-2007, 11:12 AM
My question is can an LT play RT and can a RT/LT switch to guard?

I'm all for drafting an LT, but what happens to Spencer if he comes back and wins the LT job or wins a starting job but not LT?I think the answer to your question is yes. Winston was a LT converted to right and though not a candidate for pro bowl seemingly has done a good job.
http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/winston_eric00.html

I think many O tackles are converted to guard and do well. Injuries to our key players have crushed us the last two years.

Take any good team and remove their best W/R, starting center, starting RB, starting SS, starting back up SS, #3 W/R and then have your starting QB knocked out of a couple games. Most teams would have a dismal record also.

And then there are our turn overs...

beerlover
11-01-2007, 11:16 AM
honestly this is more likely the Texans have too many needs to use a high pick on bpa whoever is available. they need to find a trading partner & add picks/players who are definite upgrades over whats presently on the roster. Spencer coming back (bonus) or not (I'm going to leave that question up to them & the Texans doctors).

LT RB C CB FS LB DE

TexansSeminole
11-01-2007, 11:20 AM
If we would have gone after Gather in the Sup. Draft like we should have, we wouldn't be having this problem. Sorry I know that it is too late to be crying about this, but it still erks me that we could have had him for our third rounder (there won't be anyone close to that talent when we draft this year).

We probably found out that he listens to rap music or something and took him off our draft board.

barrett
11-01-2007, 05:34 PM
Kubiak said today that they are going to be working Frye as a guard. He had been a tackle. He also said that Rashad Butler has looked great in practice and that he'll be suiting up as the swing tackle.

Lucky
11-02-2007, 07:12 PM
...He also said that Rashad Butler has looked great in practice and that he'll be suiting up as the swing tackle.
Here's an interesting piece from the Charlotte Observer's blog (http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/) on Rashad Butler. With the all the negative comments pointed at the Texans medical staff (and probably deservedly so), it's nice to see that they got something right.


Remember Rashad Butler? http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/images/2007/11/01/panthers1.jpg (http://blogs.charlotte.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/01/panthers1.jpg)

He's the offensive tackle the Panthers wasted a third-round pick on last season. They hung onto him last year and quietly urged him to bulk up. That never really happened and the Panthers released him in training camp.


He's surfaced in Houston and the Texans expect to activate him Sunday.


"He's come a long, long way," Texans coach Gary Kubiak told the Houston media. "I expect to go into the game with him as our swing tackle. He's been that good in practice."


So how did Butler go from a bust to a steal in such a short time?


It turns out there's a lot more to his story.


Butler revealed to the Houston media that he has ulcerative colitis, which would explain his inability to keep weight on. Butler said the illness was first diagnosed after he went home to Florida following June workouts with the Panthers. Butler said he advised the Panthers of his condition when he reported to training camp, but he still had trouble keeping his weight up.


He began taking medication (seven pills each morning), but said he didn't really start to get relief until after he signed with the Texans.


"Soon as I went to the doctor out here, he attacked it a lot stronger than it was attacked when I was at home or in Carolina," Butler said. "Once he talked to me and everything, I kind of knew I was going to be on the rebound upward and everything."


Butler said he's added about 15 pounds and said last year was a miserable experience.


"Oh, man, it was hard because I just didn't have energy, really didn't have any strength," Butler said. "I mean, I was losing weight daily. At one time, I got down to about like 275, 270 -- you can't play O-line at that weight. I haven't been 270 since I want to say maybe like junior year in high school or whatever.


"So I mean it was hard practicing, (getting) real tired easily, but I'm happy I got it under control now because that's something I don't want any athlete to ever go through."


Kubiak said Butler has earned the respect of the coaches and his new teammates and that's why he'll be active this week.


"The kid was very light," Kubiak said. "... He's out here playing extremely well in practice. Our players want him up. They want him up because of the way he's practicing, so he'll get his chance this week. He'll be up."

threetoedpete
11-02-2007, 07:22 PM
If we would have gone after Gather in the Sup. Draft like we should have, we wouldn't be having this problem. Sorry I know that it is too late to be crying about this, but it still erks me that we could have had him for our third rounder (there won't be anyone close to that talent when we draft this year).

The only bad actor guy the Texan have ever gone after was T.J. And the only reason they drafted him is was because C.C. got caught with his pants down. Now a bi polar guy doesn't bother me that much. He's having his best year so far.

The Texan's said they were desperate but not that desperate to take a chance on Gaithers attitude changing. Time will tell if it was a mistake or not. This GM likes to save his move up ammo. I'm all for that. Go draft the Dunbar King kid out of Auburn in the forth this draft. Basically the same thing. A big package you hope will grow up into a man.

Ckw
11-03-2007, 02:04 AM
Here's an interesting piece from the Charlotte Observer's blog (http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/) on Rashad Butler. With the all the negative comments pointed at the Texans medical staff (and probably deservedly so), it's nice to see that they got something right.

Very good story that deserves it's own thread Lucky. Let's hope this guy turns into something. Sad to hear about all the trouble that he had, but now that he has it figured out we might have really found ourselves something.

threetoedpete
11-03-2007, 02:46 PM
We've got some guys who hang around this Board who say Winston is more of a LT than a RT because he's athletic, he's more of a finesse type than the
more power type players who tend to play on the strong-side (right) side of the OLine. And they campaign regularly for him to be moved to LT next year.

Well I'm sitting here watching the Pittsburg kid play vs Syracuse. He gave up a sack one play in the game on a game with a linebacker blitz. Then the next play he destroys a speed rush. After huge punt return, he makes a crushing block at the point of attack to spring a fourteen yard run. So there's more than one way to do it. Kick Erick outside to the left and draft a brut like Utah for a RT, a high end right tackle who'll put three yards on the board everytime you call rush to the right, that might work. Winston's knee has had two years to heal. I don't give a darn how they rebuild it. But it's gotta be done. They can't stand pat on the tallent they have on the roster for '08. Someone says they can they are excepting another losing season before they get started.
Going with the colittis guys just doesn't do it for me. They've all been pain in the butt for the last three years.

Honoring Earl 34
11-03-2007, 04:35 PM
Well I'm sitting here watching the Pittsburg kid play vs Syracuse. He gave up a sack one play in the game on a game with a linebacker blitz. Then the next play he destroys a speed rush. After huge punt return, he makes a crushing block at the point of attack to spring a fourteen yard run. So there's more than one way to do it. Kick Erick outside to the left and draft a brut like Utah for a RT, a high end right tackle who'll put three yards on the board everytime you call rush to the right, that might work. Winston's knee has had two years to heal. I don't give a darn how they rebuild it. But it's gotta be done. They can't stand pat on the tallent they have on the roster for '08. Someone says they can they are excepting another losing season before they get started.
Going with the colittis guys just doesn't do it for me. They've all been pain in the butt for the last three years.

It seems the Texans are looking for steals on the OL . Kinda like going to the dollar store for filet mignon .

The problem with the Texans is , they really need help at DB , OL , and RB like yesterday . So who do you pick with your #1 pick .

Bubbajwp
11-03-2007, 07:11 PM
It seems the Texans are looking for steals on the OL . Kinda like going to the dollar store for filet mignon .

The problem with the Texans is , they really need help at DB , OL , and RB like yesterday . So who do you pick with your #1 pick .

BPA

Honoring Earl 34
11-03-2007, 09:36 PM
BPA

Dorsey from LSU ?

CloakNNNdagger
11-03-2007, 11:21 PM
Here's an interesting piece from the Charlotte Observer's blog (http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/) on Rashad Butler. With the all the negative comments pointed at the Texans medical staff (and probably deservedly so), it's nice to see that they got something right.


Do note that the doctor treating the ulcerative colitis would be an internist...........The Texans' "trauma/ortho" surgeons are the one's who would be caring for the other players whose care we've questioned.

nut
11-04-2007, 09:23 PM
A defensive lineman might be picked #1. It's happened before.