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MightyTExan
10-31-2007, 01:58 PM
Can anyone confrim this?
Saw this post on another messageboard:
"I was listening to the Dunta Robinson show yesterday on my way home from work. There was one caller who asked Dunta if he thought Mario was living up to the expectations of being drafted number one overall. Dunta said no. He said he's doing some good things, but that he can play better and that he needs to be disruptive on every play. Dunta also said he didn't have one or two years to wait on Mario to develop, he needs Mario to play well now.

He was also asked how he felt about the Pats and Colts game, and he said he can't blame everyone for wanting to watch it, he wants to watch it too. In fact, he told Texan fans to watch that game and just check up on them later."

powerfuldragon
10-31-2007, 02:00 PM
i hope that's true.

TexansLucky13
10-31-2007, 02:03 PM
Can't confirm it, but if it is true, it doesn't surprise me. We really need someone back there to get them in focus. DeMeco is a leader on the field as far as adjusting the play, but we need an attitude leader. Dunta is definitely the first guy in line for that job.

They need to go out there and get pissed off before the game. I mean furious. They need to play like those old defenses everyone loved.

I once heard that Mean Joe Green punched one of the Steeler receivers in the face because he didn't make a catch. Is that true? We need attitude like that! (except he should punch Mario instead)

mridge01
10-31-2007, 02:07 PM
It is true, here's the soundbite (http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2007/10/dunta_wants_patscolts_schillin_1.html).
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the Texans. He's gone the first chance he gets, and I don't blame him a bit.

Xetuoh1836
10-31-2007, 02:15 PM
Does "I'm just keepin it real" mean he doesn't want to show up or will his outspokeness mean, everyone else on the defense needs to show up?:gun:

Thorn
10-31-2007, 02:17 PM
If everyone on the defense played with Dunta's intensity we'd probably be having a different season right now.

Vinny
10-31-2007, 02:17 PM
It's not like Mario's play isn't like totally obviously milquetoast except for the pollyanna fans perhaps.

HoustonFrog
10-31-2007, 02:17 PM
I love Dunta...I really do. Its like he is a smart Texans Talk poster and just gets the forum to say what many are thinking. :heart:

PapaL
10-31-2007, 02:19 PM
I see nothing wrong with his statement. Not like he's making things up.

Leahmic223
10-31-2007, 02:21 PM
I for one am a Loyal Texan fan to the end, I would watch and will watch the Texan game over the Pats game and my Raider friend will watch his team with me.

I'm not watching the Pats-Colts over the Texans because I watch no one over the Texans. Besides...all this hype for a matchup that happens every year one way or another. I mean the last 4-5 years this thing has gone on, if it were on before or after the Texans game...sure I would watch it.

ESPN can hype the game all it wants as some big game that will show us the future and tell you who is going to be the champion. Just like how ESPN hyped the Suns-Mavs games last NBA season only to find out none of those teams went past the second round. Its a regular season matchup between two really good teams, but IDK...I am not that hyped for it. Not me, i'm watching the Texans first week in week out, even when we were 2-14 I still like to see my players battle for a win.

YellerLotYeller
10-31-2007, 02:22 PM
I think my favorite player on this team will be gone before we know it. He will be a superstar if he goes somewhere else. It will be a sad day when we see him in another jersey and all we will have is memories of him busting people in the nose for us.:gun:

Thorn
10-31-2007, 02:22 PM
I'll be watching the Texans. Unless they get behind by 30 points again, but that isn't happening this week.

3andOUT
10-31-2007, 02:24 PM
That's why I love D-Rob. He throws out the tired cliches and spits it like it is. I don't blame him, most football fans appreciate good football and you can guarantee Pats/Colts will be that. They both play disciplined, smart and mistake-free football unlike our team of late.

Vinny
10-31-2007, 02:25 PM
I for one am a Loyal Texan fan to the end, I would watch and will watch the Texan game over the Pats game and my Raider friend will watch his team with me.

I'm not watching the Pats-Colts over the Texans because I watch no one over the Texans. Besides...all this hype for a matchup that happens every year one way or another. I mean the last 4-5 years this thing has gone on, if it were on before or after the Texans game...sure I would watch it.

ESPN can hype the game all it wants as some big game that will show us the future and tell you who is going to be the champion. Just like how ESPN hyped the Suns-Mavs games last NBA season only to find out none of those teams went past the second round. Its a regular season matchup between two really good teams, but IDK...I am not that hyped for it. Not me, i'm watching the Texans first week in week out, even when we were 2-14 I still like to see my players battle for a win.
nobody has to hype this game. These are the two best teams in the NFL and nobody is even in their league right now.

Leahmic223
10-31-2007, 02:29 PM
nobody has to hype this game. These are the two best teams in the NFL and nobody is even in their league right now.

No one has to hype it but ESPN is positive this is the superbowl.

Hardcore Texan
10-31-2007, 02:29 PM
nobody has to hype this game. These are the two best teams in the NFL and nobody is even in their league right now.

Agreed, it will probably be better than the superbowl, both teams are in the AFC......prollly will meet again in the playoffs, hopefully not until the AFC championship game.

Is the pats/colts on at the same time as Texans/raiders? They should both be CBS games anyway. I am as intrigued as anyone, but I will not turn off my Texans.

Vinny
10-31-2007, 02:30 PM
No one has to hype it but ESPN is positive this is the superbowl.This is the game of the year...in case you haven't been paying attention.

Double Barrel
10-31-2007, 02:30 PM
It's not like Mario's play isn't like totally obviously milquetoast except for the pollyanna fans perhaps.

And our head coach. He seems to act like Mario is doing a great job and the rest of us are just ignorant in our expectations.

While I don't expect our HC to throw anyone under the bus, I also don't expect him to put sprinkles on a turd and tell us it's a Little Debbie snack cake.

Things had better turn around, because people are going to leave this team (and not just the fans!). D.Rob is a dude that has a will to win, and if not here, then we will see him in a Colts or Pats uni before we know it. That'll be a sad day when one of our best players bolts because we consistently suck.

As far as the Colts/Pats game, I guess I'm stuck watching the Texans. I'm not giving up time with my boy to hang out at a sports bar where I won't be able to concentrate and enjoy either game. I'll just have to catch it on NFL Replay.

Buffi2
10-31-2007, 02:35 PM
Can Dunta go before his contract is up?

Leahmic223
10-31-2007, 02:36 PM
This is the game of the year...in case you haven't been paying attention.

Um...didn't I say it was a big regular season game?

That is it. That is all it is. A regular season game between 2 undefeated teams. The Team that loses this game isn't going to tear down and have a horrible season the rest of the way. The Boys/Pats game was hyped almost as much, and ESPN then called it a likely preview of the superbowl. I guess, things change when playoffs come around. Colts proved that last year.

I still will not watch it over the Texans.

HoustonFrog
10-31-2007, 02:42 PM
And our head coach. He seems to act like Mario is doing a great job and the rest of us are just ignorant in our expectations.

While I don't expect our HC to throw anyone under the bus, I also don't expect him to put sprinkles on a turd and tell us it's a Little Debbie snack cake.

Things had better turn around, because people are going to leave this team (and not just the fans!). D.Rob is a dude that has a will to win, and if not here, then we will see him in a Colts or Pats uni before we know it. That'll be a sad day when one of our best players bolts because we consistently suck.

As far as the Colts/Pats game, I guess I'm stuck watching the Texans. I'm not giving up time with my boy to hang out at a sports bar where I won't be able to concentrate and enjoy either game. I'll just have to catch it on NFL Replay.

You can say "Mario is doing some good things and we see improvement when we watch the tape but has a long ways to go" and this still represents needing improvement and not exaggerating his play.....a mildly upbeat disappointment. I'll take that over the b.s.

As far as the game. I thought about buying it since I have Direct TV but I'm not sure.

Errant Hothy
10-31-2007, 02:49 PM
Let me start this by saying that I think Dunta is easily our best defensive player, and I shudder to think what the D would look like without him,,,

but,...

...I always get concerned when players start calling each other in public. I cannot decide if Dunta is trying to be aleader and motivate Mario or if he frustration is just boiling over. My issue is the "every play" crack, as I could easily see this causing alot of resentment within the locker room (espically in light of the end of the Tennesse game). This could also be a sign that Kubiak is on the verge of losing this team.

Don't get me wrong I like the fact that Dunta alsways speaks his mind, and I fully supported him in his comments about Carr last season. But the difference is that Dunta is making these comments in the middle of the season.

Then again maybe Dunta can do what John McClain cannot.

Just the thoughts that came to my mind when I read/heard the interview.

Joe Texan
10-31-2007, 02:55 PM
I will be very very very very very very very mad if Kubes runs Dunta off.

Htownsportsfan
10-31-2007, 03:05 PM
No one has to hype it but ESPN is positive this is the superbowl.

Hell it could be better than the super bowl! The NFC's best is not even close to matching up with NE and or Indy! Dallas is a damn good NFC team and NE just demolished them. NE is playing what could be the best footbal anyone has playe din 10 years. Washington had a top 5 defense and NE just racked up 52 on them.

Vinny
10-31-2007, 03:06 PM
Then again maybe Dunta can do what John McClain cannot. I can guarantee you one thing...not one player in that locker room gives a rats booty about what McClain has to say.
You can say "Mario is doing some good things and we see improvement when we watch the tape but has a long ways to go" and this still represents needing improvement and not exaggerating his play.....a mildly upbeat disappointment. I'll take that over the b.s.Thats what he kept saying about Carr before he cut him last year.

mexican_texan
10-31-2007, 03:19 PM
Don't see anything negative here. Dunta isn't afraid to speak his mind, he's just an honest person. He's not dissing Mario, he is underperforming.

mridge01
10-31-2007, 03:28 PM
By the way, ESPN is hyping the game and all, but why isn't this game the Monday Night game or the Sunday night game at the very least. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

Errant Hothy
10-31-2007, 03:28 PM
I can guarantee you one thing...not one player in that locker room gives a rats booty about what McClain has to say.

a) I know

and

b) I'm glad

It was meant to be said tounge-in-check.

Hagar
10-31-2007, 03:37 PM
Can Dunta go before his contract is up?Not physically but mentally, yep, he sure can.

Also, IIRC, he only has two years left on this contract. Given his play, he'll warrent a pretty good size contract. If I were him and the Texans are in the same shape then as they are now, I would probably back off a bit and save my body for my next team and my next contract. Remember, a player's body is his product and no one buys broken products.

I know some of y'all won't like hearing that but it is a fact of life in the NFL.

tedr
10-31-2007, 03:38 PM
I don't think there is anything wrong with what Dunta said. He's earned the right to say that by playing the way he has. I also liked how he called out his team for not playing with enough intensity when interviewed after the last game. Somebody needs to light a fire under these guys, and I don't think the coaches are doing enough of that. I hope he doesn't leave, but I don't blame him if he does.

Vinny
10-31-2007, 03:41 PM
Not physically but mentally, yep, he sure can.

Also, IIRC, he only has two years left on this contract. Given his play, he'll warrent a pretty good size contract. If I were him and the Texans are in the same shape then as they are now, I would probably back off a bit and save my body for my next team and my next contract. Remember, a player's body is his product and no one buys broken products.

I know some of y'all won't like hearing that but it is a fact of life in the NFL.
Dunta's next contract lies in his game film...he wants a big contract so he will do what he needs to do to look good on film. That is the real fact of NFL life....he ain't gonna coast.

Double Barrel
10-31-2007, 03:42 PM
By the way, ESPN is hyping the game and all, but why isn't this game the Monday Night game or the Sunday night game at the very least. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

The networks pay big money for the rights to NFL games. And both the Pats and Colts are AFC teams, which are the domain of CBS. The network has as much right to this game as anyone under the current agreements.

The bigger question is why didn't the NFL set this one up from the point of scheduling last Spring to be a primetime game.

And for the record, NFLN is hyping this one as much, if not more, than ESPiN.

Thorn
10-31-2007, 03:45 PM
I can't possibly see where the Texans are stupid enough to let him go. I just don't see it. He'll get a big fat signing bonus and be here for a while longer. Dunta is good for us, be he ain't the best in the league. There are better corners than him. But for us, he's invaluable.

Vinny
10-31-2007, 03:45 PM
"Guys are coming after us. We need to come after them a little more," said defensive end N.D. Kalu. "It's almost like we're too nice out there."http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3087111

Honoring Earl 34
10-31-2007, 04:06 PM
Dunta's been here since 2004 . In that time he's lost a lot more than he's won and if I were him , I would'nt use to much finese when describing the situation ... what are they going to do trade me to a worse team .

The problem is who'll be after Dunta ... Demeco ... is he going to get run off for saying something bad about an underperforming teamate .

I think this is a calculated risk on Dunta's part to right the ship . It's a risk of desperation though .

TexanAddict
10-31-2007, 04:13 PM
I personally love the way Dunta doesn't pull any punches, on the field or elsewhere.

JDizzle
10-31-2007, 04:15 PM
I'm gonna miss Dunta when he signs with someone else.

Hardcore Texan
10-31-2007, 04:40 PM
And our head coach. He seems to act like Mario is doing a great job and the rest of us are just ignorant in our expectations.

While I don't expect our HC to throw anyone under the bus, I also don't expect him to put sprinkles on a turd and tell us it's a Little Debbie snack cake.

Things had better turn around, because people are going to leave this team (and not just the fans!). D.Rob is a dude that has a will to win, and if not here, then we will see him in a Colts or Pats uni before we know it. That'll be a sad day when one of our best players bolts because we consistently suck.

As far as the Colts/Pats game, I guess I'm stuck watching the Texans. I'm not giving up time with my boy to hang out at a sports bar where I won't be able to concentrate and enjoy either game. I'll just have to catch it on NFL Replay.


In Austin, they are not showing the Raiders/Texans, they are going with Pats/Colts.

http://www.keyetv.com/entertainment/listings/default.aspx

I am glad I broke down and got the NFL Sunday ticket.

Specnatz
10-31-2007, 04:50 PM
I'm gonna miss Dunta when he signs with someone else.

Franchise Tag .................................................. ....



D'oh

Porky
10-31-2007, 04:51 PM
I heard a good bit of Dunta's show yesterday. I have started to check it out more because he is very honest, and doesn't just spew out Craig Biggio style sound bites. I heard him pretty much call most of his teammates everything but the pillsbury dough boy. I mean he didn't come right out and say these guys are soft, but the inference was definetely there. I also remember him specifically saying that we have some young guys that need to get better NOW, and to hell with potential. He said he isn't getting any younger, and he's tired of waiting for these guys to pull their weight.

nunusguy
10-31-2007, 04:53 PM
I can't possibly see where the Texans are stupid enough to let him go. I just don't see it. He'll get a big fat signing bonus and be here for a while longer. Dunta is good for us, be he ain't the best in the league. There are better corners than him. But for us, he's invaluable.
I dunno if they would let him go, but he may be unwilling to stay.
Dunta is a powerful little guy - on the field and off of it. And he would be the type who management wouldn't want to try to push around. That guy marchs
to a different drummer, and if he set is mind to leave when he is a FA and negotiate a deal with another team, a playoff contender, I don't think the Texans would try to push D-Rob around. You know that wouldn't be a good stradegy. But they can make it awfully temping for him to stay, financailly speaking.
But he's not only my favorite player, he's my favorite personality on the team.
By the way, you couldn't have somebody Mario's size playing like Dunta Robinson. You'd have to ban him from the league - he's 100 lbs bigger than D-Rob.

Second Honeymoon
10-31-2007, 05:05 PM
Franchise Tag .................................................. ....



D'oh

yup, Spec wins. Dunta doesnt have a choice. He can hold out and demand a trade but if he was franchise'd he would get huge money and I don't know if he could turn all that down just to force a trade. Samuel did a similar thing to the Patriots this year and ended up getting his money and got re-signed.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2007, 05:19 PM
The networks pay big money for the rights to NFL games. And both the Pats and Colts are AFC teams, which are the domain of CBS. The network has as much right to this game as anyone under the current agreements.

The bigger question is why didn't the NFL set this one up from the point of scheduling last Spring to be a primetime game.

And for the record, NFLN is hyping this one as much, if not more, than ESPiN.

I think this revolves around the flex scheduling idea.

It's one thing for a network to pick all games 6 months in advance and carry the risk of a rating bombs, but to wait and cherry pick 10 days before?

What I am saying is, Fox and CBS needed a little love in order to agree to the flex schedule. That is my opinion though.

But, we have heard about this type of stuff for several years now. That's probably why. Otherwise, the good games would always get picked over. The day games need some big rating hitters from time to time, this is one of them!

It's no secret the Networks, cable providers, satellite TV providers, and the NFL have their issues with figuring things out distributing games via TV/Internet. This is one of those things and perplexing to fans.

What works for the fans may not be doable from the businesses listed above. Perfect example, DirectTV and the Sunday Ticket. Great article on espn.com about that whole issue with an historical perspective.

hollywood_texan
10-31-2007, 05:27 PM
yup, Spec wins. Dunta doesnt have a choice. He can hold out and demand a trade but if he was franchise'd he would get huge money and I don't know if he could turn all that down just to force a trade. Samuel did a similar thing to the Patriots this year and ended up getting his money and got re-signed.

Dunta does have a choice!

He goes through his contract and either takes the 1 year franchise contract or doesn't play. He can come in about week 10, get full credit for a season and become an unrestricted free agent. He may have to do that 2 years though.

Point is, all Dunta has to do is not sign a contract, play under the 1 year franchise contract stuff and at some point he becomes an unrestricted free agent. The Texans can't make him sign a long-term deal, but can make it painful to get out!

If he plays really hard ball, the Texans might just trade him somewhere so they can get some value out of Dunta. It is kind of scortched Earth, but if he is really pissed and thinks things are going no where anyway playing for the Texans, what does he have to lose? Absolutely NOTHING!!!

Just watch, this can start to get real interesting in the offseason.

infantrycak
10-31-2007, 05:43 PM
Samuel did a similar thing to the Patriots this year and ended up getting his money and got re-signed.

Samuel only signed the one year franchise tender and with the agreement he would not be franchised next year.

Runner
10-31-2007, 05:59 PM
It's not like Mario's play isn't like totally obviously milquetoast except for the pollyanna fans perhaps.

I was going to say, "the players see Mario play too".

I'm sure Dunta isn't the only one that thinks Mario isn't near as good as a first rounder should be, much less a #1 pick.

Baga21
10-31-2007, 06:09 PM
From everything I've seen and heard from Dunta Robinson, he just doesn't seem to be the type of guy to want to leave so badly that he would turn down a top shelf offer from the Texans just to bolt to a different team.

I know he is the most frustrated Texan about the losing and has continued to call out his team, but that just tells me he is too invested in this team to just sit around and watch what he feels is a talented team go to waste. He is a Texan first and I just feel he wants to be here and be a main component of the team when it finally does turn the corner.

I may be way off here, but I just don't see him bolting for greener pastures when the team is really not too far off from winning football.

nunusguy
10-31-2007, 06:16 PM
From everything I've seen and heard from Dunta Robinson, he just doesn't seem to be the type of guy to want to leave so badly that he would turn down a top shelf offer from the Texans just to bolt to a different team.

If you think you have a feel for D-Rob, then you must realize that if there is one player on this team who would pass up guaranteed money to have the opportunity to negotiate in free agency to play for a winner/play in the playoffs, its Dunta Robinson.

Baga21
10-31-2007, 06:25 PM
If you think you have a feel for D-Rob, then you must realize that if there is one player on this team who would pass up guaranteed money to have the opportunity to negotiate in free agency to play for a winner/play in the playoffs, its Dunta Robinson.

I do realize that as well. This is why I said I may be way off...

It's just my opinion from what I've seen/heard from this proud man from day 1 of arriving in Houston.

junior
10-31-2007, 08:52 PM
what was his thoughts last week giving up the 2 pass plays that set the titans winning field goal. was he as blunt about his play as he is about others.

just saying that his first year 6 picks, two and a half seasons later 5 more, would he say he has under performed his expectations since then.

Andrew6
10-31-2007, 09:05 PM
what was his thoughts last week giving up the 2 pass plays that set the titans winning field goal. was he as blunt about his play as he is about others.

just saying that his first year 6 picks, two and a half seasons later 5 more, would he say he has under performed his expectations since then.

You said what I was thinking. He gave up 2 big pass plays in the Titans game and the last one set them up for the game winning field goal after a Huge comeback in the fourth Quarter. We'd be sitting at 4 - 4 and not 3 and 5 right now.

ubecool454
10-31-2007, 09:43 PM
You can say "Mario is doing some good things and we see improvement when we watch the tape but has a long ways to go" and this still represents needing improvement and not exaggerating his play.....a mildly upbeat disappointment. I'll take that over the b.s.

As far as the game. I thought about buying it since I have Direct TV but I'm not sure.

u have to have sunday ticket with direct tv

ubecool454
10-31-2007, 09:47 PM
what was his thoughts last week giving up the 2 pass plays that set the titans winning field goal. was he as blunt about his play as he is about others.

just saying that his first year 6 picks, two and a half seasons later 5 more, would he say he has under performed his expectations since then.

on the titans game, dunta took the blame.

junior
10-31-2007, 10:01 PM
on the titans game, dunta took the blame.

but was he as hard on himself about underperforming the last 2 and a half years as he is on everyone else.

awtysst
10-31-2007, 10:28 PM
Not physically but mentally, yep, he sure can.

Also, IIRC, he only has two years left on this contract. Given his play, he'll warrent a pretty good size contract. If I were him and the Texans are in the same shape then as they are now, I would probably back off a bit and save my body for my next team and my next contract. Remember, a player's body is his product and no one buys broken products.

I know some of y'all won't like hearing that but it is a fact of life in the NFL.

Thats why we need to resign him this off season. We have a big chunk of money and some of that should be used to resign our best DB.

Imatexanfan
10-31-2007, 10:45 PM
Dunta is to the extent of me to an expective but you all know that I say whats on my mind and thats what he does also. So its all to thegood to me. Go ahead dog.:cool:

Napa Auto Parts
10-31-2007, 10:52 PM
What more can be said about Dunta he has no fear in management the reason being he know's he's good. i love the fact that he called out mario but honestly i pretty much convinced myself and accepted that mario is just and will always be a combine warrior that casserly fell in love with.:gun:

Double Barrel
11-01-2007, 10:20 AM
but was he as hard on himself about underperforming the last 2 and a half years as he is on everyone else.

EVERYONE underperforms on losing teams. D.Rob has been as blunt about himself as anyone else. It's called accountability, which seems to be severely lacking with many players on this team.

bckey
11-01-2007, 12:27 PM
In Corpus Christi CBS has chosen to show the Colts/Pats game instead of the Texans so I don't even have a choice.

bah007
11-01-2007, 12:38 PM
You said what I was thinking. He gave up 2 big pass plays in the Titans game and the last one set them up for the game winning field goal after a Huge comeback in the fourth Quarter. We'd be sitting at 4 - 4 and not 3 and 5 right now.

Dunta had near perfect coverage on that play & Collins put the ball exactly where it had to be.

Dunta got beat deep but he did everything right. Sometimes (especially in Houston sports) the other guys just have more luck than you do.

Porky
11-01-2007, 12:39 PM
In Corpus Christi CBS has chosen to show the Colts/Pats game instead of the Texans so I don't even have a choice.

If only Houston could get the Pats/Colts game I might actually be able to watch a quality game. :gun:

digitalswim
11-01-2007, 01:13 PM
Franchise Tag .................................................. ....



D'oh

No way in hell the Texans are gonna franchise him when the average one year salary for a franchised DB is $7,790,000 million. The guy is solid but he isn't worth top 5 DB money nor does it make financial sense to burn up cap room with a big one year contract for a guy that would want to leave the team the following year as many of you are suggesting.

mridge01
11-01-2007, 01:58 PM
Dunta had near perfect coverage on that play & Collins put the ball exactly where it had to be.

Dunta got beat deep but he did everything right. Sometimes (especially in Houston sports) the other guys just have more luck than you do.

If he got beat, then by definition he didn't do everything right. Starting with playing only two yards of the receiver without jamming him. On 3 and long, give a little cushion, or if you're going to play up, jam the receiver.

Vinny
11-01-2007, 01:59 PM
If he got beat, then by definition he didn't do everything right. Starting with playing only two yards of the receiver without jamming him. On 3 and long, give a little cushion, or if you're going to play up, jam the receiver.He had good coverage...but the S was like a mile away from the play. We should have had two S up top but we went with single S....bad scheme, poor coaching, and Dunta takes the blame.

Leahmic223
11-01-2007, 02:47 PM
No way in hell the Texans are gonna franchise him when the average one year salary for a franchised DB is $7,790,000 million. The guy is solid but he isn't worth top 5 DB money nor does it make financial sense to burn up cap room with a big one year contract for a guy that would want to leave the team the following year as many of you are suggesting.

Man he deserves top 5 DB money because if he goes to any other team, thats what he's going to become. Also if we lose him we'll have NOTHING at secondary, we should make strides to keep him, otherwise we'll have ANOTHER major hole to fill.

Honoring Earl 34
11-01-2007, 02:55 PM
He had good coverage...but the S was like a mile away from the play. We should have had two S up top but we went with single S....bad scheme, poor coaching, and Dunta takes the blame.

On this play , if I'm not mistaken , Collins only looked this way . You'd think that maybe the safety would think ... hmmm ... they're protecting Collins and this is single coverage .

HoustonFrog
11-01-2007, 03:25 PM
He had good coverage...but the S was like a mile away from the play. We should have had two S up top but we went with single S....bad scheme, poor coaching, and Dunta takes the blame.

I agree. The other day I was talking about how if you blamed anyone, blame the scheme or coaching. Dunta was in the right place. Its a situation where you have to give them credit for making a perfect play. Dunta was man enough to accept it. I'm not sure what people are in here ripping the guy, he is the one guy who cares and goes all out and is one of our best players. People get beat.

If junior or someone else can name one one outspoken leader on a team that has never had a bad game or never made a bad play I'm open to it. Kond of hard to make every play on defense when there are only 2-3 out of 11 guys capable of playing at a high enough standard to start of teams.

digitalswim
11-01-2007, 03:26 PM
Man he deserves top 5 DB money because if he goes to any other team, thats what he's going to become. Also if we lose him we'll have NOTHING at secondary, we should make strides to keep him, otherwise we'll have ANOTHER major hole to fill.

For the record I do not think he is going anywhere despite his grumbling. The only reason I responded was because of the mentioning of franchising him which would never happen.

Depsite evidence to the contrary I do not believe the Texans are that innept to let their best DB go. They will mash out a deal long before it is even an issue. In fact this issue is really all about knee jerk over reactors jumping to conclusions because he isn't even in a contract year anyway.

The guy plays hard and wants his buddies to play hard as well. I can respect that. I think I would have had a man to man discussion with my teammate before calling him out on a radio show but I guess thats how he rolls. Whatever blows your dress up...

Leahmic223
11-01-2007, 03:33 PM
For the record I do not think he is going anywhere despite his grumbling. The only reason I responded was because of the mentioning of franchising him which would never happen.

Depsite evidence to the contrary I do not believe the Texans are that innept to let their best DB go. They will mash out a deal long before it is even an issue. In fact this issue is really all about knee jerk over reactors jumping to conclusions because he isn't even in a contract year anyway.

The guy plays hard and wants his buddies to play hard as well. I can respect that. I think I would have had a man to man discussion with my teammate before calling him out on a radio show but I guess thats how he rolls. Whatever blows your dress up...

I was just saying, we should do anything to keep him here.

As for the comments, they don't affect me as much. I just find it odd that Kalu said Mario played well, and before the season Weaver was saying thet he works too hard to not reach his potential. With Kubiak saying what he did, it seems the general consensus from the Texans is that Mario is doing his job.

Double Barrel
11-01-2007, 04:02 PM
In fact this issue is really all about knee jerk over reactors jumping to conclusions because he isn't even in a contract year anyway.

I'm the one that brought it up and it's not overreacting. It is speculation from fans that are tired of watching a crappy product for 6 straight seasons, so one can only imagine what D.Rob thinks about it. When you add this to the fact that the Texans FO tends to ship off vocal players who do not tow the company line, it is a legitimate concern.

Football is a business, so there is no "jumping to conclusions" to discuss the nature of the way things work. To be naive to that part of the industry is just delusional and a bit stupid, in all honesty. Asante Samuel - one of the best DBs in football - just got franchised and he'll be a free agent next season as a result. What makes you believe that we have the power to keep players when a dynasty like the Pats have the same problem?

I think I would have had a man to man discussion with my teammate before calling him out on a radio show but I guess thats how he rolls.

And how do you know that he didn't have a man-to-man discussion with his teammates? I bet your big man complex would shrink if you had the opportunity to call out Dunta in person.

eriadoc
11-01-2007, 04:04 PM
I was just saying, we should do anything to keep him here.

As for the comments, they don't affect me as much. I just find it odd that Kalu said Mario played well, and before the season Weaver was saying thet he works too hard to not reach his potential. With Kubiak saying what he did, it seems the general consensus from the Texans is that Mario is doing his job.

The "smart" folks on this board say he's not, but of course none of them are coaching in the NFL, for whatever that's worth. Count me among those wondering what the heck to believe. I know what I expect, and I know I'm not seeing it, but without access to game film, I don't know what the coaches expect, and are seeing to make them happy. *shrug*

infantrycak
11-01-2007, 04:07 PM
When you add this to the fact that the Texans FO tends to ship off vocal players who do not tow the company line, it is a legitimate concern.

Do we really have anything to support this other than fan speculation?--who falls into this category?

Sharper--is there reason to believe this was the reason v. what they said--a huge cap number and concerns about his knee--which turned out correct.
Walker--speaking out really the reason or a huge cap number and missing 18 games.

The "smart" folks on this board say he's not, but of course none of them are coaching in the NFL, for whatever that's worth. Count me among those wondering what the heck to believe. I know what I expect, and I know I'm not seeing it, but without access to game film, I don't know what the coaches expect, and are seeing to make them happy. *shrug*

I still would love to know what the fracas on the sideline was against TN. Interesting that it was the DE's Mario and Kalu disagreeing with the coach.

Double Barrel
11-01-2007, 04:09 PM
The "smart" folks on this board say he's not, but of course none of them are coaching in the NFL, for whatever that's worth. Count me among those wondering what the heck to believe. I know what I expect, and I know I'm not seeing it, but without access to game film, I don't know what the coaches expect, and are seeing to make them happy. *shrug*

This staff also has a vested interest in propping him up, so I'm not buying everything they say as "fact". The same things were said about Carr before they unceremoniously tried to get rid of him before The Big Dump.

I don't know what to think, either, but I do know that the experts at NFLN are not too impressed and other teams are not very concerned about our 'well-stocked' defensive line right now. That is reality.

eriadoc
11-01-2007, 04:12 PM
This staff also has a vested interest in propping him up, so I'm not buying everything they say as "fact". The same things were said about Carr before they unceremoniously tried to get rid of him before The Big Dump.

I don't know what to think, either, but I do know that the experts at NFLN are not too impressed and other teams are not very concerned about our 'well-stocked' defensive line right now. That is reality.

Not really. Kubiak said things like he expects more from David, he knows David can do better, David's done some good things, but there's work to do, etc. He never used the word "exceptional" when describing David Carr's season. Kubiak never really throws his guys under the bus, but his praise for Mario has been over the top thus far. It makes me wonder what I've been missing.

Double Barrel
11-01-2007, 04:15 PM
Do we really have anything to support this other than fan speculation?--who falls into this category?

Sharper--is there reason to believe this was the reason v. what they said--a huge cap number and concerns about his knee--which turned out correct.
Walker--speaking out really the reason or a huge cap number and missing 18 games.

yeah, it's speculation, but sometimes fans can be pretty astute. Don't forget Glenn! He wasn't too happy, and neither was Eric Moulds, for that matter. We can 20/20 hindsight their careers all day, but they were contributors when they were fired. And the only source we seem to have is 'official sources', and I'm not about to bite that hook, line, and sinker.

This owner is big on "high character", and it seems safe to assume that speaking out publicly against the company line is frowned upon.

It doesn't take a PhD in anything to understand that a fierce competitor like D.Rob is just getting tired of being on a garbage team that lacks the basic fundamentals required to consistently win games. It's basic human nature, really. I can't blame him if he ends up leaving and I wouldn't hold it against him. It's a business, he wants to win, and we suck.

Runner
11-01-2007, 04:18 PM
...it seems the general consensus from the Texans is that Mario is doing his job.

In public anyway.

Runner
11-01-2007, 09:58 PM
Do we really have anything to support this other than fan speculation?--who falls into this category?


Of all the players mentioned, I think Aaron Glenn may have been in this category.

Napa Auto Parts
11-01-2007, 10:20 PM
In Corpus Christi CBS has chosen to show the Colts/Pats game instead of the Texans so I don't even have a choice.



Lucky you some people in houston will have to watch the texans play unless they go out to their local sports bar.

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 08:21 AM
yeah, it's speculation, but sometimes fans can be pretty astute. Don't forget Glenn! He wasn't too happy, and neither was Eric Moulds, for that matter. We can 20/20 hindsight their careers all day, but they were contributors when they were fired. And the only source we seem to have is 'official sources', and I'm not about to bite that hook, line, and sinker.

Fans can be pretty astute and at the same time they have a tendency to read all the tea leaves as ill visions when the team isn't winning. The problem with using Glenn as an example is we do have an unofficial source--him. He said exactly the same thing as the club, that the Texans intended to keep him when they brought Buchanon in and he asked to be released which they agreed to because of his almost franchise CB salary.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 08:30 AM
Fans can be pretty astute and at the same time they have a tendency to read all the tea leaves as ill visions when the team isn't winning. The problem with using Glenn as an example is we do have an unofficial source--him. He said exactly the same thing as the club, that the Texans intended to keep him when they brought Buchanon in and he asked to be released which they agreed to because of his almost franchise CB salary.

I sweep all of this under the file tab of "Casserly" and try not to understand.:gun:

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 08:59 AM
I've got respect for Dunta but he needs to shut up at this point, b/c
his unit is the weakest on the defense, yet he keeps vouching for faggins like he's actually a starting CB. Gain control of that part of the defense 1st. I don't care where any of those guys were drafted, The d-line & secondary work together & as long as Faggins & CC brown are on the field, The oppositon will always have someone open on 3-5 step drops in which case a pass rush is pretty much canceled out b/c of how fast the QB can get the ball out.

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 09:07 AM
He had good coverage...but the S was like a mile away from the play. We should have had two S up top but we went with single S....bad scheme, poor coaching, and Dunta takes the blame.

Kind of like Mario taking the blame for the d-line whoas when Weaver only has 1 sack in the last 20 odd games as Andre pointed out on 610 a couple of days ago. Or TJ FINALLY showing promise. Really, the guy can't be the only one who is expected to come up with pressure on the QB. As it is, when there is pressure, it's usually him anyway.

Double Barrel
11-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Fans can be pretty astute and at the same time they have a tendency to read all the tea leaves as ill visions when the team isn't winning. The problem with using Glenn as an example is we do have an unofficial source--him. He said exactly the same thing as the club, that the Texans intended to keep him when they brought Buchanon in and he asked to be released which they agreed to because of his almost franchise CB salary.

This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I think of Ray Lewis recently openly criticizing his head coach's decisions to throw passes on short yardage situations. Brian Billick basically agreed with Lewis. Do you honestly think that this Texans FO could stand to have someone out there questioning coaching or personnel decisions?

This team's mentality just seems fragile, IMO, and they lack consistent leadership that actually provides positive influence on the team. I've never seen much from our FO to indicate that they value this trait. More to the point, I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 10:12 AM
This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I think of Ray Lewis recently openly criticizing his head coach's decisions to throw passes on short yardage situations. Brian Billick basically agreed with Lewis. Do you honestly think that this Texans FO could stand to have someone out there questioning coaching or personnel decisions?

This team's mentality just seems fragile, IMO, and they lack consistent leadership that actually provides positive influence on the team. I've never seen much from our FO to indicate that they value this trait. More to the point, I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

That's a little different though. ray is the heart & soul of that team, offense & defense. Billick "the offensive genuis", wouldn't even be wearing a superbowl ring if it wasn't for that guy running that defense the way he did in 2000. Plus, the fans are all on ray's side, popular player wise & in this particular situation. He's also one of the very few players who could do it & get away with it, manning & probably brady being the others.

Since no one now or ever has been able to hold a candle to what ray is or has been to the ravens, that's yet another reason for him to just chill, unless he's saying what he's saying TRYING to get run out of town.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 10:24 AM
Kind of like Mario taking the blame for the d-line whoas when Weaver only has 1 sack in the last 20 odd games as Andre pointed out on 610 a couple of days ago. Or TJ FINALLY showing promise. Really, the guy can't be the only one who is expected to come up with pressure on the QB. As it is, when there is pressure, it's usually him anyway.

I think comparing Dunta's situation to Mario's is pretty naive. We have seen Dunta make plays and play his tail off. I can't say I've seen that from Mario yet....the overall #1 pick. It isn't his fault but when you are the #1 overall pick and your team passed over multiple guys who produce, you better be more than "just learning and getting my feet wet."People accept that b.s. too much. The D-line is horrible but as the #1 pick he should be making those guys better not vice versa

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 10:44 AM
I think comparing Dunta's situation to Mario's is pretty naive. We have seen Dunta make plays and play his tail off. I can't say I've seen that from Mario yet....the overall #1 pick. It isn't his fault but when you are the #1 overall pick and your team passed over multiple guys who produce, you better be more than "just learning and getting my feet wet."People accept that b.s. too much. The D-line is horrible but as the #1 pick he should be making those guys better not vice versa

Like Dunta, I see mario play hard every week, whether that translates into sacks is another story.
You guys give the others a pass too much & put too much stock in where a guy was drafted. How many times do the patriots have to win the superbowl with 3rd round guys for you guys to see that the best teams are usually those that function as a team; meaning no one person is the key to bringing down the house. You say it isn't his fault that he was drafted where he was, but then back track & say he should be making everyone else better. It goes both ways my friend. You think Ed Reed could roam around & do what he does if he didn't have guys capable of picking up the slack around him? Of all the major sports, this is the closest thing to a team sport there is & whether you guys wanna see it or not Mario nor Dunta for that matter can do it alone in their respective units, they both need help from the others.

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 10:46 AM
This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I'm just saying there isn't a single example we have any solid information on that there was payback for speaking out and as you have noted, we have at least one where there hasn't been any so I chock it up to could be but we really don't know.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 11:10 AM
Like Dunta, I see mario play hard every week, whether that translates into sacks is another story.
You guys give the others a pass too much & put too much stock in where a guy was drafted. How many times do the patriots have to win the superbowl with 3rd round guys for you guys to see that the best teams are usually those that function as a team; meaning no one person is the key to bringing down the house. You say it isn't his fault that he was drafted where he was, but then back track & say he should be making everyone else better. It goes both ways my friend. You think Ed Reed could roam around & do what he does if he didn't have guys capable of picking up the slack around him? Of all the major sports, this is the closest thing to a team sport there is & whether you guys wanna see it or not Mario nor Dunta for that matter can do it alone in their respective units, they both need help from the others.

With the way you are putting it, then there are NEVER any special players and that great players are because of great teammates. Not true. How do you think DeMeco makes plays and is a leader his rookie year. That same D-line has to cover him and make sure he has room to move. Yet he has an inate ability to make play. I said it isn't Marios fault where he was drafted but the label will always be #1. Sorry but if you are #1 you shouldn't act like a project. I'm not sure what games you are watching but I've never seen a guy with his size get taken out and puched back and out of plays by one guy. Again, WE were told that he was what we were missing for a pass rush. He is a pass rushing specialist. HE should be opening things up for others not the other way around. I also never excused the other guys on the line. And to answer your question, YES on Ed Reed because the guy is a playmaker and can lay the wood. He is the coach and leader fo the secondary, just like DeMeco runs our D. I don't give anyone on this team a pass, I just think Dunta and DeMeco are two that can say they have shown the talent to start on other teams. You also are wrong if you don't think guys like Seymour and some others weren't studs making lesser guys betteron teams like the Pats. I'll never get why fans here love to accept mediocre play and guys who "take time." Why can't a Jacoby or a DeMeco be an example of a fearless guy who makes plays when given the chance.

Double Barrel
11-02-2007, 11:22 AM
I'm just saying there isn't a single example we have any solid information on that there was payback for speaking out and as you have noted, we have at least one where there hasn't been any so I chock it up to could be but we really don't know.

yep...I'll be the first to admit that being a fan of a habitually losing team causes the mind to wonder about speculative scenarios. Wish things were different, but we don't even seem to put forth a competitive effort lately, which is the M.O. of the 'same old Texans'.

dskillz
11-02-2007, 11:35 AM
This is all true...but name a player on this team ('cept D.Rob) that has spoken publicly against company policy and lived to be a Texan the next season.

I think of Ray Lewis recently openly criticizing his head coach's decisions to throw passes on short yardage situations. Brian Billick basically agreed with Lewis. Do you honestly think that this Texans FO could stand to have someone out there questioning coaching or personnel decisions?

This team's mentality just seems fragile, IMO, and they lack consistent leadership that actually provides positive influence on the team. I've never seen much from our FO to indicate that they value this trait. More to the point, I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

You hit the nail right on the head. I wonder how Kubiak is taking one of his best players basically say just the opposite of what he has said every week. If you want to take that a step further, maybe Dunta is questioning what Kubiak is seeing on the field every week.

I am starting to question the ownership of this team myself. Seems that even with an almost total overhaul of the coaching staff and players, the same losing mentality is still there. Is it coming from the top???

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 11:40 AM
With the way you are putting it, then there are NEVER any special players and that great players are because of great teammates. Not true. How do you think DeMeco makes plays and is a leader his rookie year. That same D-line has to cover him and make sure he has room to move. Yet he has an inate ability to make play. I said it isn't Marios fault where he was drafted but the label will always be #1. Sorry but if you are #1 you shouldn't act like a project. I'm not sure what games you are watching but I've never seen a guy with his size get taken out and puched back and out of plays by one guy. Again, WE were told that he was what we were missing for a pass rush. He is a pass rushing specialist. HE should be opening things up for others not the other way around. I also never excused the other guys on the line. And to answer your question, YES on Ed Reed because the guy is a playmaker and can lay the wood. He is the coach and leader fo the secondary, just like DeMeco runs our D. I don't give anyone on this team a pass, I just think Dunta and DeMeco are two that can say they have shown the talent to start on other teams. You also are wrong if you don't think guys like Seymour and some others weren't studs making lesser guys betteron teams like the Pats. I'll never get why fans here love to accept mediocre play and guys who "take time." Why can't a Jacoby or a DeMeco be an example of a fearless guy who makes plays when given the chance.

Well for starters, there are only max 3 guys on the entire defense that almost all teams would take on as starters, mario is one of them.
& i guess the pats have really missed Seymour's play on defense up to this point & they really missed Harrison in the secondary.

You're right he is a pass rush specialist who's supossed to be opening things up for everyone else, but you're crazy if you think that it's not supposed to work the other way around either.

There are special players in this league, but for a defense/offense to function at it's best as a unit, others have to be able to pick up the slack when the main guys aren't producing, schemed against, injured etc. I felt the same at the beginning of the year when mario got 2 sacks on opening day & the defense looked good & i feel the same way now that he & the defense are struggling.

Marcus
11-02-2007, 11:48 AM
Just got through reading this long thread. :whew Some comments...

...I always get concerned when players start calling each other in public. I cannot decide if Dunta is trying to be aleader and motivate Mario or if he frustration is just boiling over. My issue is the "every play" crack, as I could easily see this causing alot of resentment within the locker room (espically in light of the end of the Tennesse game). This could also be a sign that Kubiak is on the verge of losing this team.

Don't get me wrong I like the fact that Dunta alsways speaks his mind, and I fully supported him in his comments about Carr last season. But the difference is that Dunta is making these comments in the middle of the season.

I have the very same concerns here. For a player, there is a time and place for airing your concerns. Other than just telling the fans what they want to hear, I don't see how making these feelings known publicly, as opposed to making them behind closed doors, can be anything but counterproductive . . . unless he has an ulterior motive. :hmmm:

This owner is big on "high character", and it seems safe to assume that speaking out publicly against the company line is frowned upon.

D'Rob's a pretty smart guy. You don't think he didn't know this beforehand?

I am honestly starting to believe that marketing and selling tickets is the primary focus and building a solid football team is secondary if the market supports losing.

Uh, you've lost me on that one. Leaving tickets out of it, explain to me how the market would support losing? I've had my own complaints about McNair, but I don't see how he would think that anything but a winning team would increase marketing.

Since no one now or ever has been able to hold a candle to what ray is or has been to the ravens, that's yet another reason for him to just chill, unless he's saying what he's saying TRYING to get run out of town.

Back to that ulterior motive. Maybe he's doing this to fast track his way out of here before contract time.

Like I said before, airing these "dirty laundry" comments publicly, rather than in the locker room, where only the players and coaches can hear, I can't see how there would not be some sort of resentment.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 12:08 PM
Well for starters, there are only max 3 guys on the entire defense that almost all teams would take on as starters, mario is one of them. & i guess the pats have really missed Seymour's play on defense up to this point & they really missed Harrison in the secondary.

You're right he is a pass rush specialist who's supossed to be opening things up for everyone else, but you're crazy if you think that it's not supposed to work the other way around either.

There are special players in this league, but for a defense/offense to function at it's best as a unit, others have to be able to pick up the slack when the main guys aren't producing, schemed against, injured etc. I felt the same at the beginning of the year when mario got 2 sacks on opening day & the defense looked good & i feel the same way now that he & the defense are struggling.

I agree that units have to work together. I think the Pats D is substantially better with those guys vs. without them. They still have only played one top team and that team exposed some defensive problems. But your argument goes both ways since they did win with crap receivers look how much better they are with top receivers. The bolded part we will agree to disagree. Other teams would take him maybe but not as a starter IMHO. Where we are disagreeing is who should be helping who the most. We passed up a boatload of 1st round guys...not just the popular names..who can make plays for him, so I want to see more than "progress" or plays I have to hear about from Kubes secret films.

Leahmic223
11-02-2007, 01:32 PM
I agree that units have to work together. I think the Pats D is substantially better with those guys vs. without them. They still have only played one top team and that team exposed some defensive problems. But your argument goes both ways since they did win with crap receivers look how much better they are with top receivers. The bolded part we will agree to disagree. Other teams would take him maybe but not as a starter IMHO. Where we are disagreeing is who should be helping who the most. We passed up a boatload of 1st round guys...not just the popular names..who can make plays for him, so I want to see more than "progress" or plays I have to hear about from Kubes secret films.

The films are not secret, they just see more than we do.

What Kubiak is PROBABLY seeing is that the secondary gets beat to quick for Mario to get any pressure, I know I saw several times where Mario rushed the passer only to see the QB pass it to a open guy. That's not mario fault, that is someone's else. The coaches just see something different.

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 01:59 PM
I agree that units have to work together. I think the Pats D is substantially better with those guys vs. without them. They still have only played one top team and that team exposed some defensive problems. But your argument goes both ways since they did win with crap receivers look how much better they are with top receivers. The bolded part we will agree to disagree. Other teams would take him maybe but not as a starter IMHO. Where we are disagreeing is who should be helping who the most. We passed up a boatload of 1st round guys...not just the popular names..who can make plays for him, so I want to see more than "progress" or plays I have to hear about from Kubes secret films.

saying the bolded really isn't saying much though b/c i guarantee u that every team does that @ 1 point or another on the 1st day of the draft. If we had a re-draft after all of these players' 1st seasons in the NFL , there'd be at least 5 teams who'd be killing themselves trying to land Addai way earlier than he was picked that year. Ditto for Marcus McNeil, Maurice Jones Drew & Devin Hester. Yet none of these guys were thought to be top 10 in the draft at any point.

I understand your overall point though i agree somewhat, but as with DC, i won't lay the blame completely at his feet when it comes to something that 3 others are responsible for as well.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 02:00 PM
The films are not secret, they just see more than we do.
What Kubiak is PROBABLY seeing is that the secondary gets beat to quick for Mario to get any pressure, I know I saw several times where Mario rushed the passer only to see the QB pass it to a open guy. That's not mario fault, that is someone's else. The coaches just see something different.

I know, I'm half joking since I DVR some games and try to see what he sees but don't. The problem I have is that it isn't what you are explaining that he talks about it. It is phantom double teams that he drives through and gets there right when the QB is throwing that Kubes speaks of. Maybe it is me, it is definitely not a cut on people like you trying to defend Mario, but I of the opinion that I'm tired of exucses for him and he should be farther along this.

Mr teX
11-02-2007, 02:03 PM
I know, I'm half joking since I DVR some games and try to see what he sees but don't. The problem I have is that it isn't what you are explaining that he talks about it. It is phantom double teams that he drives through and gets there right when the QB is throwing that Kubes speaks of. Maybe it is me, it is definitely not a cut on people like you trying to defend Mario, but I of the opinion that I'm tired of exucses for him and he should be farther along this.

Well DE is more than sacks- run responsibility, getting his share of the pressure etc. i think that's what Kubes is speaking of. Meaning mario does everything that they're asking him to do.

Leahmic223
11-02-2007, 02:09 PM
I know, I'm half joking since I DVR some games and try to see what he sees but don't. The problem I have is that it isn't what you are explaining that he talks about it. It is phantom double teams that he drives through and gets there right when the QB is throwing that Kubes speaks of. Maybe it is me, it is definitely not a cut on people like you trying to defend Mario, but I of the opinion that I'm tired of exucses for him and he should be farther along this.

Lol I know I saw the phantom double team also. The LG never comitted to Mario so it wasn't really a double team. But I defend our 2006 #1 pick, I think sometimes the Houston fans are too hard on the guy.

Also we didn't really pass up anything to get him. Bush still hasn't proved his potential and VY either. Same with D'Brick. As mr.Tex is saying every team passes up guys they should have got.

If you were to do the draft again guy slike Demeco, Addai would be top 5. But you can't do it again, and Mario was going to be the first defensive player taken even if we skipped on him. Players are drafted by potential and I don't think any of the top 3 guys have reached it yet.

Double Barrel
11-02-2007, 02:48 PM
Uh, you've lost me on that one. Leaving tickets out of it, explain to me how the market would support losing? I've had my own complaints about McNair, but I don't see how he would think that anything but a winning team would increase marketing.

The Houston Texans are on of the most valuable sports franchises around, in spite of a history of losing and mediocre play. The games have been sold-out for six seasons straight. You can find Texans gear in a huge variety of colors and objects. Marketing and selling tickets are the one thing this team excels at when you step back and look at the big picture.

Where is the incentive to really shake things up? Sure McNair would like more market share and I have no doubt that he'd like to win more games. But I have yet to see any really big names associated with the front office. Our two head coaches have one winning season between them in their HC careers, an overhyped GM in Casserly, inexperienced GM in Smith, and our coordinators ('cept Sherman) are not from winning backgrounds in their respective positions. Heck, this is Richard Smith's first job as DC! yeah, that is awe-inspiring....or not.

The point being: why spend a lot of money acquiring big time coordinators and assistance coaches if people support the product in spite of being mediocre?

Same with D'Brick.

No offense, but you haven't watched much of D'Brickashaw Ferguson with a comment like that. Most experts project him as a dominant LT in just his second season. He won't get Pro Bowl honors playing on a losing Jets team, though, so people disregard him until they make a splash.

Specnatz
11-02-2007, 03:19 PM
The Houston Texans are on of the most valuable sports franchises around, in spite of a history of losing and mediocre play. The games have been sold-out for six seasons straight. You can find Texans gear in a huge variety of colors and objects. Marketing and selling tickets are the one thing this team excels at when you step back and look at the big picture.

Where is the incentive to really shake things up? Sure McNair would like more market share and I have no doubt that he'd like to win more games. But I have yet to see any really big names associated with the front office. Our two head coaches have one winning season between them in their HC careers, an overhyped GM in Casserly, inexperienced GM in Smith, and our coordinators ('cept Sherman) are not from winning backgrounds in their respective positions. Heck, this is Richard Smith's first job as DC! yeah, that is awe-inspiring....or not.

The point being: why spend a lot of money acquiring big time coordinators and assistance coaches if people support the product in spite of being mediocre?




I keep hearing this spend money on big name coordinators and everything will be fine speech, but for some reason I do not see the Pats doing that and they still win. The just have a better assesment of the ones they do hire.

The Redskins have how much money tied up in DC and OC? Does not seem to be doing them any good and those two coordinators were high on a lot of peoples list, including the DC for either the same position here or HC when Kubiak was hired.

Double Barrel
11-02-2007, 04:04 PM
I keep hearing this spend money on big name coordinators and everything will be fine speech, but for some reason I do not see the Pats doing that and they still win. The just have a better assesment of the ones they do hire.

It's not a speech so much as it is perspective. Comparing us with the Pats must be a joke, because I cannot take that seriously. There is a world of difference between what they've put together and what we've got. We maybe have 3-4 people on our entire team that would make the cut in New England, and that probably includes coaches.

And regardless of what other big name coordinators are or are not doing, the fact remains that Richard Smith has proven nothing but being ineffective as a DC. The verdict is out on the Sherman/Kubiak hybrid offense, but it's not looking good and, in fact, has proven to be vanilla and without flexibility.

The Redskins have how much money tied up in DC and OC? Does not seem to be doing them any good and those two coordinators were high on a lot of peoples list, including the DC for either the same position here or HC when Kubiak was hired.

Starts with the owner. The Redskins have done jack crap since DS bought the team.

Specnatz
11-02-2007, 05:03 PM
It's not a speech so much as it is perspective. Comparing us with the Pats must be a joke, because I cannot take that seriously. There is a world of difference between what they've put together and what we've got. We maybe have 3-4 people on our entire team that would make the cut in New England, and that probably includes coaches.

And regardless of what other big name coordinators are or are not doing, the fact remains that Richard Smith has proven nothing but being ineffective as a DC. The verdict is out on the Sherman/Kubiak hybrid offense, but it's not looking good and, in fact, has proven to be vanilla and without flexibility.

Starts with the owner. The Redskins have done jack crap since DS bought the team.

Please do not misunderstand, and think I like Richard Smith and his schemes because I do not. Also, I was not comparing our talent to that of New England, my referance was to the coaches they have had. They seem to keep getting hired as head coaches and what has any of them done since leaving the nest?

My point, not so precisely put, is that big name coaches do not neccessarily lead to success. The assistants have to work with the HC and have some sort of philosophical agrrement versus differances (I.E. Kubiak and Sherman, Richard Smith, frank bush).

Runner
11-02-2007, 05:23 PM
You hit the nail right on the head. I wonder how Kubiak is taking one of his best players basically say just the opposite of what he has said every week. If you want to take that a step further, maybe Dunta is questioning what Kubiak is seeing on the field every week.


To take it two steps further, what are the odds Dunta is the only player with a poor opinion of Mario? Unlikely, since they do get to see the film.

The fact of the matter is, I think many of Mario's supporters here would see more flaws if he was wearing a different uniform and playing exactly the same way.