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Texanmike02
10-29-2007, 08:17 PM
I've been as level headed as I can. But one thing bugs me. I watch Schaub and his performance is getting worse. I know he's throwing off his back foot. That much is obvious. I just have to wonder though, with the line that we're trotting out there.... are we damaging him too? Its not a stretch to assume that HWWDNSO might have been ruined by a combination of factors. Coaching and the OL had a lot to do with it.

I think our coaching is better, but our OL is still bad. I am hoping White makes a difference. But look at Schaub's numbers.

His passer rating is dropping like a rock. His completion % is WAY down. His yards/Attempt is somewhat stable. but he hasn't thrown a TD in 5 weeks, granted he missed significant time in two of those. But its his play that I'm worried about more than the numbers. His accuracy is getting worse, and I don't mean just the completion%. I mean where he's placing the ball when he's passing. I have no doubt that a QB can take a bad season, but we need this line fixed this off season in the worst way.

I keep bouncing back and forth. I think we need a SS/FS like no other need, but at the same time we better have a running game and an OL upgrade next year or we may see our Lexus turn into a Yugo overnight. I still think its fixable... but man... its more urgent the more I think about it.

Mike

TexansSeminole
10-29-2007, 08:31 PM
I've been as level headed as I can. But one thing bugs me. I watch Schaub and his performance is getting worse. I know he's throwing off his back foot. That much is obvious. I just have to wonder though, with the line that we're trotting out there.... are we damaging him too? Its not a stretch to assume that HWWDNSO might have been ruined by a combination of factors. Coaching and the OL had a lot to do with it.

I think our coaching is better, but our OL is still bad. I am hoping White makes a difference. But look at Schaub's numbers.

His passer rating is dropping like a rock. His completion % is WAY down. His yards/Attempt is somewhat stable. but he hasn't thrown a TD in 5 weeks, granted he missed significant time in two of those. But its his play that I'm worried about more than the numbers. His accuracy is getting worse, and I don't mean just the completion%. I mean where he's placing the ball when he's passing. I have no doubt that a QB can take a bad season, but we need this line fixed this off season in the worst way.

I keep bouncing back and forth. I think we need a SS/FS like no other need, but at the same time we better have a running game and an OL upgrade next year or we may see our Lexus turn into a Yugo overnight. I still think its fixable... but man... its more urgent the more I think about it.

Mike

I would like to say that it is his injuries. Obviously, injuries can affect your play both in a pyschological way and a physical way, I think that is what is happened. Also, of course, losing AJ.

Regarding players that we need: I think we need a FS more than anything. Teams around our division, and the league for that matter, have been grabbing these safeties who can play man coverage like a CB but we don't seem to take the hint. You would think we would atleast build to beat our division champs. It's such an important position now a days, and both of our safeties don't play like an NFL safety should. The least we could do would be to get a FS who can cover AND play the run.

Shoot, the Redskins went as far as to draft two of them in the last few years.

Corrosion
10-29-2007, 08:39 PM
The biggest problem this team has is its O-line imo . Its been that way since day the first season and hasnt really gotten better .... poor choices in FA havent helped . This years line can pass block better than in years past (prior to McKinney's injury anyhow) but they fail so miserably at run blocking that the improvement in pass blocking is nulified .

Until they address the line with a scheme (this Kubiak / Sherman hybrid crap aint working) and players who are competent they wont win .

I'd prefer they find some big mean nasty O-linemen who can just blow people off the ball and leave it up to the RB to make the next guy miss or break a tackle .... and forget about these more athletic linemen who get pushed back on seemingly every run play ...... Dominate the line Dominate the game , simple as that .

kiwitexansfan
10-29-2007, 08:40 PM
I have been banging the DB upgrade drum as loud as anyone around here for a few seasons, but I am starting to think that we need to fix the OLine more than we need to upgrade at DB.

We've invested a lot of time, money and draft picks into QB's and skill players on offense only to see them ruined by bad line play and inconsistent/bad coaching/schemes on the line. To recoup that investment we need to get the line solidified asap.

If I was told that we are going to go OL, OL, OL, OL, OL, OL in this years draft, I could live with that.

nunusguy
10-29-2007, 08:41 PM
I would like to say that it is his injuries. Obviously, injuries can affect your play both in a pyschological way and a physical way, I think that is what is happened.
Even if he recovers from the physical variety, the psychological may be with him much longer.
But the injury yestesday, I dunno I guess a concussion ? I don't think that's been officailly reported as a concussion, but I don't think Carr ever had a concussion ? That's kinda ominous.

ATXtexanfan
10-29-2007, 08:43 PM
new qb and rb, same o-line and the same problems. sam baker USC would look good in a texan uni. we need to spend picks on this o-line because free agency is costly when it comes to the 0-line. use the cash on other areas

Texanmike02
10-29-2007, 09:01 PM
I tend to agree. Draft a CB/S definately , but RB,OLB etc can be addressed in FA. Whatever you do you HAVE to address the OL in the draft. Although I just checked and there will be some very solid OL in free agency it looks like. Alot of Indy and Pitt linemen will most likely not be signed.

TexansSeminole
10-29-2007, 09:05 PM
Draft a CB/S definately , but RB,OLB etc can be addressed in FA. Whatever you do you HAVE to address the OL in the draft.

I would go with some variation of this:
1st round: S
3rd round: OL
4th round: RB
5th round: LB
6th round: CB
7th round: OL

You could even move these around all you want and I would be happy. Drafting at needs late may not fill the starting role, but atleast we can get some new guys in those position groups.

edit: The problem is we have serious needs in the offensive line and the secondary. It's hard to fix these things with the draft alone. We will have to be very active in the off-season to have a chance at being a good team next year.

eriadoc
10-29-2007, 09:06 PM
If eight games of this O-Line is enough to ruin Matt Schaub, then I think we all need to salute YKW. It's too early for this to affect Schaub, but it's not too early for the fans to realize that it's about to be SIX years running of poor offensive line play. The offensive line affects every aspect of a team, and it's been the most neglected unit for five drafts now. Give Matt Schaub three years behind this line, and I dare say he'd develop happy feet, dump-off tendencies, and a rushed feel to everything. And this line isn't even as bad as the 2002 and 2005 versions of Texans.

Chester Pitts and Eric Winston have been our best two drafted linemen. Draft OL already. I don't want to see reruns.

Texanmike02
10-29-2007, 09:23 PM
If eight games of this O-Line is enough to ruin Matt Schaub, then I think we all need to salute YKW. It's too early for this to affect Schaub, but it's not too early for the fans to realize that it's about to be SIX years running of poor offensive line play. The offensive line affects every aspect of a team, and it's been the most neglected unit for five drafts now. Give Matt Schaub three years behind this line, and I dare say he'd develop happy feet, dump-off tendencies, and a rushed feel to everything. And this line isn't even as bad as the 2002 and 2005 versions of Texans.

Chester Pitts and Eric Winston have been our best two drafted linemen. Draft OL already. I don't want to see reruns.

I didn't mean to suggest that he was ruined already. Just that we're not protecting him and that could have a long term effect on his psyche. At the risk of turning this into another YKW thread (I really don't want that), I don't know if you salute him, but I definitely think that you have to aknowledge the possibility that 4 years of awful coaching combined with 5 years of horrendous line play might have ruined his career before it began.

Mike

edo783
10-29-2007, 09:24 PM
I screamed my head off (well at least vigorously proposed it in print) for 3-4 years before this and was pretty much poo-pooed that the O-line wasn't really that bad. Spencer has been as big of a hit in the nads to us as Mr. Boz was. We are lucky that Winston seems to be working out at RT.

Carr Bombed
10-29-2007, 09:29 PM
I've been as level headed as I can. But one thing bugs me. I watch Schaub and his performance is getting worse. I know he's throwing off his back foot. That much is obvious. I just have to wonder though, with the line that we're trotting out there.... are we damaging him too? Its not a stretch to assume that HWWDNSO might have been ruined by a combination of factors. Coaching and the OL had a lot to do with it.

I think our coaching is better, but our OL is still bad. I am hoping White makes a difference. But look at Schaub's numbers.

His passer rating is dropping like a rock. His completion % is WAY down. His yards/Attempt is somewhat stable. but he hasn't thrown a TD in 5 weeks, granted he missed significant time in two of those. But its his play that I'm worried about more than the numbers. His accuracy is getting worse, and I don't mean just the completion%. I mean where he's placing the ball when he's passing. I have no doubt that a QB can take a bad season, but we need this line fixed this off season in the worst way.

I keep bouncing back and forth. I think we need a SS/FS like no other need, but at the same time we better have a running game and an OL upgrade next year or we may see our Lexus turn into a Yugo overnight. I still think its fixable... but man... its more urgent the more I think about it.

Mike

I'll just post a link to a post I made last week, when I lost it after the Titans game

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=765682#post765682

So to answer your question......yes.

stingray
10-29-2007, 09:34 PM
What is HWWDNSO?

Texanmike02
10-29-2007, 09:38 PM
What is HWWDNSO?

Our former QB. A long time ago, (don't remember if it was before the boards merged but I think it was just after) we took a vow not to mention his name for a month. Then something came up and I had to reference him so I called him He Who we do not speak of in an obvious rip off of The Village.

Mike

GrandeDavid
10-29-2007, 09:39 PM
If eight games of this O-Line is enough to ruin Matt Schaub, then I think we all need to salute YKW. It's too early for this to affect Schaub, but it's not too early for the fans to realize that it's about to be SIX years running of poor offensive line play. The offensive line affects every aspect of a team, and it's been the most neglected unit for five drafts now. Give Matt Schaub three years behind this line, and I dare say he'd develop happy feet, dump-off tendencies, and a rushed feel to everything. And this line isn't even as bad as the 2002 and 2005 versions of Texans.

Chester Pitts and Eric Winston have been our best two drafted linemen. Draft OL already. I don't want to see reruns.


I agree with you. I'm also a fan of the Cincinnati Bengals, and the reason the 1990's is termed "The Lost Decade" by the Cincinnati media and fans is because they had no offensive line. Now I don't think the Texans will exactly do to Matt Schaub what the Bungles did to David Klingler, but he really has been taking some poundings lately, and Schaub's soft teammates have yet to retaliate and stand up for him like pro's should.

The Texans, at this point, as disgustingly incompetent as they've looked so often the past few games, would not surprise me if they finished like 5-11. Until the line improves, you're just going to see seasons like that. Soon a decade will pass and the Bengals of the 1990s will have a companion franchise. That is terrifying. So having said that, I don't think Schaub is ruined, at least not yet, but he'll never have a chance to succeed consistently with this line and with these putrid ball carriers they call "running backs". And of all the rotten damn luck, Andre Johnson gets lost for so many games...its just freaking rotten how this franchise has been so mismanaged, cursed, snakebitten, horribly coached, the list never ends.

stingray
10-29-2007, 09:39 PM
Our former QB. A long time ago, (don't remember if it was before the boards merged but I think it was just after) we took a vow not to mention his name for a month. Then something came up and I had to reference him so I called him He Who we do not speak of in an obvious rip off of The Village.

Mike

Ohh, OK..

GrandeDavid
10-29-2007, 09:40 PM
What is HWWDNSO?

Good question!

Thorn
10-29-2007, 10:20 PM
If I was told that we are going to go OL, OL, OL, OL, OL, OL in this years draft, I could live with that.

I'll second that emotion.

maddogmrb
10-29-2007, 10:51 PM
Yes, we are ruining this QB. Seems like I remember just how much better our oline was going to be with this new QB and that MOST ALL the oline probs were due to the old QB. Well, obviously that isn't the case. I think the best thing to do with Matt is sit him for the Oakland game and then the bye and then sit him for the next game after the bye and let him get his senses back. We are ALREADY dangerously close to Carrerrizing him and I think he has too much potential for that to happen to a 2nd Texan QB.

I would like next year's draft to look like this:
1st round: OL
3rd round: OLB
4th round: OLB
5th round: BPA
6th round: BPA
7th round: BPA

We traded a #1 for Boulware, so maybe with new coaching in the offseason we can actually make a safety out of him.

We need to sign 2 IMPACT (not reject) FA's ... preferably an olineman and an OLB. Add a good FA DL and DB to the mix and we have shored up most of our weak spots in one year. After all .... this is THE YEAR we are to make a big hit in the FA market, right?

I believe RB will straighten itself out between Ahman, Echodude, and Chris Taylor. Please send the Dayne train packing!

And then we need to shake up the coaching staff. Both coordinators need to go and maybe a couple of assistants, too. If the scheming and techniques on both sides of the ball don't improve in 2008 well, bye bye Kubes.

The1ApplePie
10-29-2007, 11:52 PM
Schaub just may be too soft, simple as that. Wasn't that a knock on him comming out of college?

They aren't going to draft an O-lineman in the 1st. McNair won't allow it.

O-Linemen don't get a team primetime TV spots and tons of merch sold, and after the PR disaster (and football disaster) of the 2006 draft, McNair ain't gonna take another lineman.

kiwitexansfan
10-30-2007, 02:53 AM
I would like next year's draft to look like this:
1st round: OL
3rd round: OLB
4th round: OLB
5th round: BPA
6th round: BPA
7th round: BPA




Why the obsession with upgrading at the OLB spots?? Of all the issues the team has, and given the relative importance of OLB's especially in the 4-3 why go wild on OLB?

BSofA04
10-30-2007, 02:56 AM
Why the obsession with upgrading at the OLB spots?? Of all the issues the team has, and given the relative importance of OLB's especially in the 4-3 why go wild on OLB?

No joke. Let's forget about the OLB and concentrate on keeping our franchise QB from getting killed. OT should be priority #1, secondary #2 then BPA.

2BCF
10-30-2007, 03:52 AM
Well, if we do "ruin" this QB, it'll be the first.

spanrep
10-30-2007, 08:08 AM
I watched Schuab play in high school and a little bit in college...he's a good passer, but probably soft and definitely light on the leadership skills.

jaxfan21
10-30-2007, 09:10 AM
Come on now people this is the NFL, coaches work hard at gameplans. If you notice a weakness in a QB you exploit it. There comes a time when a new QB will have his ups but once you have video of what worked and what failed you gameplan for that. You cannot tell me it has to do all with the line and all with AJ being out. Teams have figured Schuab and the Houstons O weakness by game video. That is why the make the big dollars to study the game. Even the worst O line and worst QB can have a great game with a great gameplan.

AnthonyE
10-30-2007, 09:14 AM
I have a feeling the defenses only defensive gameplan is "Blitz the hell out of him."

At the moment, I think we're ruining this QB. In 6 years, this is the first time we had a true QB, and he's literally being driven into the ground.

gjmac2
10-30-2007, 09:20 AM
Why the obsession with upgrading at the OLB spots?? Of all the issues the team has, and given the relative importance of OLB's especially in the 4-3 why go wild on OLB?

I think it's an obsession because it's an area of need, just below O-line and Safety, but definetly a need.

Greenwood and Clark are not getting it done. They are slow, and are not good pass rushers.

Texans Horror
10-30-2007, 09:43 AM
Yes, I think the Texans are ruining Schaub. And if they don't do something asap, they are going to have turned a great quarterback into a bad quarterback.

The problem is simple, from my perspective. On the offensive line, there are five people. The two cornerstones are Center and Left Tackle. The Texans have average players at RG, RT, and LG. What they lack are the two pillars - the foundation - of a great line.

I also think the Texans have one decent player in the defensive secondary who compensates for the FS, SS, and other CB as much as possible, but at the same time is weakened by the lack of much help out there.

Lineman need to be drafted. Having watched the Texans go through a plethora of free agent linemen, I believe their best products (with the exception of McKinney) have always come from the draft.

The Texans need to build from the trenches out, like they did on the defensive side of the ball. I think the defensive line is starting to show its potential. The Texans draft should look for linemen in the first and third round. Or better yet, trade down for a second round pick and take the best tackle and best lineman in the second. We have enough swing players to turn somebody into a Center.

Defensive secondary should be addressed in free agency. This will be enough to get the Texans by for one more year. With Schaub's back-side protected and the run-game working, the offense will eat the clock better, improving the defense. I think this will put less burden on the secondary and create for a much better product. And Matt will not be sidelined every game due to injuries.

eriadoc
10-30-2007, 10:53 AM
Well, if we do "ruin" this QB, it'll be the first.

I think many would disagree with you. A lot of folks only seem to remember the David Carr from 2005 and 2006. From 2002-2004, Carr was making progress as you'd expect from a young QB, despite the crappy O-Line play, and started 2004 with better stats than what Schaub has right now. Somewhere along the way, the wheels fell off. Now, Carr bears a great deal of the blame for not pulling out of it, but the Texans bear a great deal of the blame for putting him there in the first place. I can sit here and say Carr is no good and doesn't have a place on this team (hell, NFL), and I think I'm right. But if I start asking how he got to that place from the guy that had heart, guts, a great arm, and one who showed he could have played in this league to where he is now ..... well, this offensive line sucked when Carr was here and they suck now. No big surprises there.

maddogmrb
10-30-2007, 11:09 AM
Why the obsession with upgrading at the OLB spots?? Of all the issues the team has, and given the relative importance of OLB's especially in the 4-3 why go wild on OLB?

and BSofA said:
"No joke. Let's forget about the OLB and concentrate on keeping our franchise QB from getting killed. OT should be priority #1, secondary #2 then BPA."

Because our OLB are really bad. Because they can't tackle, can't cover, and can't blitz. They are a huge liability on our defense and are making Demeco look bad, too. If you will read my post OT IS the priority with the #1 pick and #1 FA signing.

maddogmrb
10-30-2007, 11:15 AM
[QUOTE=Texans Horror;773507]

I think the defensive line is starting to show its potential.

QUOTE]


Are you sure you've been watchin the Texans DL? Or were you just saying its potential is what is being shown, which isn't a lot at this point?

Texans Horror
10-30-2007, 11:40 AM
Are you sure you've been watchin the Texans DL? Or were you just saying its potential is what is being shown, which isn't a lot at this point?

I know things look bleak right now, but I think the D-line has improved over last year this same time when Mario was behind the eight ball. Amobi in particular is showing a lot of promise (as opposed to the Texans telling us he has promise, I'm seeing it on the field).

spurstexanstros
10-30-2007, 03:41 PM
I think many would disagree with you. A lot of folks only seem to remember the David Carr from 2005 and 2006. From 2002-2004, Carr was making progress as you'd expect from a young QB, despite the crappy O-Line play, and started 2004 with better stats than what Schaub has right now. Somewhere along the way, the wheels fell off. Now, Carr bears a great deal of the blame for not pulling out of it, but the Texans bear a great deal of the blame for putting him there in the first place. I can sit here and say Carr is no good and doesn't have a place on this team (hell, NFL), and I think I'm right. But if I start asking how he got to that place from the guy that had heart, guts, a great arm, and one who showed he could have played in this league to where he is now ..... well, this offensive line sucked when Carr was here and they suck now. No big surprises there.

Shoot when I said this last year, I almost got run off all the boards. I said the Texans problems did not lay solely at the QB position. True, I was the biggest Carr fan on here but my point was the O-line was to blame, as well as lack of the running game and very pourous secondary. However you had the Carr haters being myopic and saying get rid of Carr and the Texans will be better. Sure enough the offense improved but not to the extent to which the abscence of Carr made a difference. Like last year the Texans had success running the ball and got protection for the QB. Also like last year the Texans struggle when they cannot do either. The old problems rear their ugly head and makes you wonder."HMMMM I guess it wasnt Carr's fault?"

WWJD
10-30-2007, 03:47 PM
I watched Schuab play in high school and a little bit in college...he's a good passer, but probably soft and definitely light on the leadership skills.

I'm not arguing about what you say but I remember when they signed Matt all the other players were saying he's a natural leader and in fact had made a point to call all the players and introduce himself.

Perhaps he's not a fiery leader maybe but I've not heard he's not a leader like David was.

Just my take from what I've read!

threetoedpete
10-30-2007, 03:59 PM
I think many would disagree with you. A lot of folks only seem to remember the David Carr from 2005 and 2006. From 2002-2004, Carr was making progress as you'd expect from a young QB, despite the crappy O-Line play, and started 2004 with better stats than what Schaub has right now. Somewhere along the way, the wheels fell off. Now, Carr bears a great deal of the blame for not pulling out of it, but the Texans bear a great deal of the blame for putting him there in the first place. I can sit here and say Carr is no good and doesn't have a place on this team (hell, NFL), and I think I'm right. But if I start asking how he got to that place from the guy that had heart, guts, a great arm, and one who showed he could have played in this league to where he is now ..... well, this offensive line sucked when Carr was here and they suck now. No big surprises there.


Thank you. there someone without an axe to grind has posted it. Still some hard core YKW hatters out there. Yeah we got it, YKW hatters. You were dead wrong then and you're dead wrong now. You're out on the gang plank and you can't man up now. Well you get to relive it all over again. I told you JA's so. Sit on it and spin Carr be free. Man up you were wrong. This o-line sucks.

dskillz
10-30-2007, 04:05 PM
One thing I am going to point out is that if you look back at the first 3 games that the team played very well, Schaub did throw some very poor passes. Seemingly he threw them up for grabs. I am not saying that Schaub is terrible or anything. Just saying that he was showing a habit for throwing interceptions when we were playing better.

eriadoc
10-30-2007, 04:11 PM
Thank you. there someone without an axe to grind has posted it. Still some hard core YKW hatters out there. Yeah we got it, YKW hatters. You were dead wrong then and you're dead wrong now. You're out on the gang plank and you can't man up now. Well you get to relive it all over again. I told you JA's so. Sit on it and spin Carr be free. Man up you were wrong. This o-line sucks.

Well, to be fair, I have an axe to grind - I have hated our O-Line for a long time. And Carr certainly was less than worthless for his last couple years here. IMO, it's not that hard to see the progress and the promise that Carr showed from 2002-2004, and still realize he was a much bigger part of the problem in 2005-2006. The O-Line has been a problem pretty close to every year.

With Schaub, you can point to a few metrics and show improvement, but at the end of the day, we have the same results - a crappy team and a crappy offense that only scores TDs in garbage time.

And for the record, I'm pro-Schaub, and was suggesting Schaub as a replacement back when people were telling me it couldn't be done for financial/trade reasons.

HoustonFrog
10-30-2007, 04:32 PM
Shoot when I said this last year, I almost got run off all the boards. I said the Texans problems did not lay solely at the QB position. True, I was the biggest Carr fan on here but my point was the O-line was to blame, as well as lack of the running game and very pourous secondary. However you had the Carr haters being myopic and saying get rid of Carr and the Texans will be better. Sure enough the offense improved but not to the extent to which the abscence of Carr made a difference. Like last year the Texans had success running the ball and got protection for the QB. Also like last year the Texans struggle when they cannot do either. The old problems rear their ugly head and makes you wonder."HMMMM I guess it wasnt Carr's fault?"

I'm not sure even where to start on this. Carr led to his own demise on the field and off the field. He was just as much to blame as the the O-line. Schaub has shown more in his 8 starts here than I saw the last 3 years from Carr. I think it is comical that in order for a guy to be accepted and considered an "improvement" here he has to never throw Ints, never make mental mistakes and be perfect. Up until 2 games ago Schaub was ranked in the top 10 in 7 fo 10 QB catergories and was still trying to go downfield despite the injuries, line and running game. Carr basically stopped trying anything but to pad his stats with 5 yard outs. Your post makes absolutely no sense if you actually watch the games. Two totally different styles. The O-line is bad but I'd much rather have Schaub than Carr. Carr went to a team with a great line and what has he done there?

Double Barrel
10-30-2007, 04:46 PM
Thank you. there someone without an axe to grind has posted it. Still some hard core YKW hatters out there. Yeah we got it, YKW hatters. You were dead wrong then and you're dead wrong now. You're out on the gang plank and you can't man up now. Well you get to relive it all over again. I told you JA's so. Sit on it and spin Carr be free. Man up you were wrong. This o-line sucks.

Dude, how long have you been stewing over that hatred? Seriously, it's not good for the heart and soul. It's just a game yada yada yada they play we watch.

yeah, the o-line is a major problem (once again). But it doesn't take away from the fact that YKW never put in the effort that great QBs do. Things like working out with WRs in the off-season, leading by example, being a student of the game.

I'm not a hater. I rooted for the guy for years. But reality is what it is, and he was the wrong pick for the wrong situation. Maybe he could have been a better QB on another team. Maybe. That is a matter of debate. But the fact remains that he never went above and beyond what was required to be a good/great QB as a Houston Texan. Taking lots of glamour shots does not qualify one as anything other than a male model.

Some of you guys crack me up for confusing analysis with emotion.

threetoedpete
10-30-2007, 04:51 PM
I'm not sure even where to start on this. Carr led to his own demise on the field and off the field. He was just as much to blame as the the O-line. Schaub has shown more in his 8 starts here than I saw the last 3 years from Carr. I think it is comical that in order for a guy to be accepted and considered an "improvement" here he has to never throw Ints, never make mental mistakes and be perfect. Up until 2 games ago Schaub was ranked in the top 10 in 7 fo 10 QB catergories and was still trying to go downfield despite the injuries, line and running game. Carr basically stopped trying anything but to pad his stats with 5 yard outs. Your post makes absolutely no sense if you actually watch the games. Two totally different styles. The O-line is bad but I'd much rather have Schaub than Carr. Carr went to a team with a great line and what has he done there?

How in God's name can you post this drivel now. What I saw was a guy pull himself off the ground for you guys 248 times. And what did he get in return. Kicked in the teeth for three years. He was a warrior for you and you threw him under the bus. What it tells me there are a whole lot of folks who do not understand the physics, have no clue, of what a guy like albert Haynesworth falling on you at full bore dose to the body. Give it up. David Carr is not here. We are working now on the third QB this season. DC is not in the equation anymore. MS took 12 hits and he looks as though he is one more hit away from being done for the year. The elimination of David Carr was not the majic bean you told us all it would be. And no matter how you spin it...you were wrong there old hoss.

threetoedpete
10-30-2007, 05:03 PM
Dude, how long have you been stewing over that hatred? Seriously, it's not good for the heart and soul. It's just a game yada yada yada they play we watch.

yeah, the o-line is a major problem (once again). But it doesn't take away from the fact that YKW never put in the effort that great QBs do. Things like working out with WRs in the off-season, leading by example, being a student of the game.

I'm not a hater. I rooted for the guy for years. But reality is what it is, and he was the wrong pick for the wrong situation. Maybe he could have been a better QB on another team. Maybe. That is a matter of debate. But the fact remains that he never went above and beyond what was required to be a good/great QB as a Houston Texan. Taking lots of glamour shots does not qualify one as anything other than a male model.

Some of you guys crack me up for confusing analysis with emotion.



Well double barrel I'll tell you something I'll let it go when people stop dancing on DC's Texan grave how about that. Got guy in here two years after the fact still got it in there sigs. Post one line snide remarks. I'll let it go when they do. And the reason he never went beyound the point of excellence, and why this still keeps coming up, is you had a good guy and a good prospect stuck in a position he had absolutly no controll over. He never quit and he didn't throw anyone under the bus untill the very end. All the while he was getting beat to death on the feild. Now you guys want to stcik to the party line...fine. But the fact remains you were wrong and this season is coming back into your face to prove it to you.

HoustonFrog
10-30-2007, 05:03 PM
How in God's name can you post this drivel now. What I saw was a guy pull himself off the ground for you guys 248 times. And what did he get in return. Kicked in the teeth for three years. He was a warrior for you and you threw him under the bus. What it tells me there are a whole lot of folks who do not understand the physics, have no clue, of what a guy like albert Haynesworth falling on you at full bore dose to the body. Give it up. David Carr is not here. We are working now on the third QB this season. DC is not in the equation anymore. MS took 12 hits and he looks as though he is one more hit away from being done for the year. The elimination of David Carr was not the majic bean you told us all it would be. And no matter how you spin it...you were wrong there old hoss.

What drivel...the truth. You guys wanted to say his stats were great last year throwing short so what is "off" about the truth of Schaub's stats up until the last two starts. Your not a Texans fan, you are a Carr fan who just waits for failure. Carr is still doing his song and dance in Carolina and he looks just as bad. Schaub is taking hits and is still trying to go down field. The fact is, when you spew crap like this, it just shows that you don't know jack about football when watching it and that you are only seeing with your "hope he fails" goggles when watching. Schaub has still shown to be a better QB and the Texans are better off than they were before. Anyone who knows football sees this. Carr being able to take a hit doesn't make him a good QB. He still couldn't play in the pocket and he still can't now. You guys were sure quiet until 2 weeks ago. Pretty sad.."hoss." O-line or not, we are in better shape with Schaub. Now go wish on a star that Dave can beat out a 43 year old journeyman. You've proven nothing but how big a fan you really are. Heck you said it best in another thread

QB. B+.- Matt Schaub has proven to be a competent quarterback. He doesn’t throw as well on the run a he does in the pocket. He does have the feet and the clock in his head to avoid disasters in the pocket. What remains to be seen is whether he is tough enough to with stand the assault he will be subjected to the rest of the season.

2BCF
10-30-2007, 05:08 PM
How in God's name can you post this drivel now. What I saw was a guy pull himself off the ground for you guys 248 times. And what did he get in return. Kicked in the teeth for three years. He was a warrior for you and you threw him under the bus. What it tells me there are a whole lot of folks who do not understand the physics, have no clue, of what a guy like albert Haynesworth falling on you at full bore dose to the body. Give it up. David Carr is not here. We are working now on the third QB this season. DC is not in the equation anymore. MS took 12 hits and he looks as though he is one more hit away from being done for the year. The elimination of David Carr was not the majic bean you told us all it would be. And no matter how you spin it...you were wrong there old hoss.

So, is he sweet or salty???

HOU-TEX
10-30-2007, 05:28 PM
Well double barrel I'll tell you something I'll let it go when people stop dancing on DC's Texan grave how about that. Got guy in here two years after the fact still got it in there sigs. Post one line snide remarks. I'll let it go when they do. And the reason he never went beyound the point of excellence, and why this still keeps coming up, is you had a good guy and a good prospect stuck in a position he had absolutly no controll over. He never quit and he didn't throw anyone under the bus untill the very end. All the while he was getting beat to death on the feild. Now you guys want to stcik to the party line...fine. But the fact remains you were wrong and this season is coming back into your face to prove it to you.

Not really. I think everyone who is/was realistic knew the Oline was borderline mediocre. Carr sucked either way. I think it's safe for you to blow out the candles on your Shrine de Carr. Go ahead and toss the soiled photos of him in the fire and let your love for him go. It's therapeutic, so go ahead Petey, release the love.:heart:

Double Barrel
10-30-2007, 06:34 PM
Well double barrel I'll tell you something I'll let it go when people stop dancing on DC's Texan grave how about that. Got guy in here two years after the fact still got it in there sigs. Post one line snide remarks. I'll let it go when they do. And the reason he never went beyound the point of excellence, and why this still keeps coming up, is you had a good guy and a good prospect stuck in a position he had absolutly no controll over. He never quit and he didn't throw anyone under the bus untill the very end. All the while he was getting beat to death on the feild. Now you guys want to stcik to the party line...fine. But the fact remains you were wrong and this season is coming back into your face to prove it to you.

Awe, c'mon now, Petey. Everyone has the right to discuss former players around these parts, especially when they played here for five seasons.

Nobody said YKW was a bad guy, and I think most folks would not argue that the situation did not allow for him to grow as a player and probably set his deficiencies in stone. And be that as it may, he knew the status of our o-line/running game when he gladly accepted a large bonus to re-sign with the team. But that still did not mean that he was dedicated to growing as a player by doing the things that the great ones do. Heck, even mediocre QBs work out in the off-season with their WRs, and AJ said he never did that in four seasons with the boy.

As far as being wrong, about what? Schaub is a better QB, and YKW has proven to be less than a valid no. 2. So it can't be that part. The line? Yeah, I guess we should always disclaimer our opinions with "unless someone integral gets hurt". Losing McKinney was a huge blow, and not something that I think anyone predicted.

The only thing I was "wrong" about was misplaced optimism that these linemen had some sack and skills. So please excuse me for trying to look at the positive side of things. I'm not a master of negativity like some folks seem to be.

infantrycak
10-30-2007, 06:51 PM
And the reason he never went beyound the point of excellence, and why this still keeps coming up, is you had a good guy and a good prospect stuck in a position he had absolutly no controll over.

Was Carr fighting up hill?--sure.
Was he abused?--sure.
Did he show up on game day?--except for leadership, yes he was a gamer.

Did he give it his all?--not even close as has been well established particularly after his departure and with the contrast to the work and extra work Schaub does/

Did he have absolutely no control?--nope, see answer above. If he had studied like Peyton Manning or Schaub, done some extra work with the receivers, come up with some ways to be a leader beyond merely his play on the field, then he would have done everything within his control, but he didn't.

ATXtexanfan
10-30-2007, 07:36 PM
One thing I am going to point out is that if you look back at the first 3 games that the team played very well, Schaub did throw some very poor passes. Seemingly he threw them up for grabs. I am not saying that Schaub is terrible or anything. Just saying that he was showing a habit for throwing interceptions when we were playing better.

i've argued this point to friends and they didn't want to hear it, hopefully it's growing pains, rep to you

SICLICK
10-31-2007, 04:02 PM
I say we get him out of that damned number 8 jersey!

junior
10-31-2007, 10:47 PM
Dude, how long have you been stewing over that hatred? Seriously, it's not good for the heart and soul. It's just a game yada yada yada they play we watch.

yeah, the o-line is a major problem (once again). But it doesn't take away from the fact that YKW never put in the effort that great QBs do. Things like working out with WRs in the off-season, leading by example, being a student of the game.

I'm not a hater. I rooted for the guy for years. But reality is what it is, and he was the wrong pick for the wrong situation. Maybe he could have been a better QB on another team. Maybe. That is a matter of debate. But the fact remains that he never went above and beyond what was required to be a good/great QB as a Houston Texan. Taking lots of glamour shots does not qualify one as anything other than a male model.

Some of you guys crack me up for confusing analysis with emotion.


does that hold true for you as well

Imatexanfan
10-31-2007, 11:20 PM
To the answer to your question: Are we ruining another QB?


Well............hell Yeah, let me ask you what do YOU think.

Wow what a smart one here. (being sarcastic):cowboy1:

Double Barrel
11-01-2007, 11:21 AM
does that hold true for you as well


Is this a question or a statement? You're attempt at being cryptic has failed. :um:

DBCooper
11-01-2007, 04:16 PM
The premise to this question is all wrong.

Schaub can do things that Carr will never be able to do (his reads, his release).

So, are we ruining "another" QB? No, we didn't ruin the first one.

But if we cannot protect Schaub, he will not be any good to us on IR.

I think a reliable running game would help tremendously, even without solid pass blocking.

HoustonFrog
11-01-2007, 04:19 PM
The premise to this question is all wrong.

Schaub can do things that Carr will never be able to do (his reads, his release).

So, are we ruining "another" QB? No, we didn't ruin the first one.

But if we cannot protect Schaub, he will not be any good to us on IR.

I think a reliable running game would help tremendously, even without solid pass blocking.

Well said!Rep

markn
11-01-2007, 04:48 PM
The premise to this question is all wrong.

Schaub can do things that Carr will never be able to do (his reads, his release).

So, are we ruining "another" QB? No, we didn't ruin the first one.

A chandelier and a beer mug aren't the same thing, but if you pound them into the ground for long enough, the results are the same.

badboy
11-01-2007, 05:20 PM
How many boo boos by free safety have led to points against us? Regardless, we can do nothing until end of this year when

1. AJ will be back and have a few games in to change the way we see offense
2. Green may be healthy rest of year and maybe " " " " " "
3. White may win starter role at center eliminating that need
4. Bennett could win " " " CB " " "
5. Schaub returns for N.O. & reverts to being very good

We draft 1) LT & get a 2nd in trade down
2nd) we get a FS
3rd) we get an Aldridge type RB to support Green/ Eche
4th) Best OLB
5th) BPA

I can dream can't I?