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GoChiefs
10-29-2007, 03:37 PM
A year ago Black was a Kansas City Chief. How do you fans feel he's performed in his new digs? Disappointed? Satisfied? Thrilled? Give me the lowdown on Jordan Black as a Texan. Is he still a backup?

In Kansas City he was a starting LT, and could run block, but was horrible in pass protection. He led the league in sacks allowed.

HOU-TEX
10-29-2007, 03:39 PM
A year ago Black was a Kansas City Chief. How do you fans feel he's performed in his new digs? Disappointed? Satisfied? Thrilled? Give me the lowdown on how Jordan Black as a Texan. Is he still a backup?

In Kansas City he was a starting LT, and could run block, but was horrible in pass protection. He led the league in sacks allowed.

He couldn't beat out Salaam = question aswered. :gun:

Hervoyel
10-29-2007, 03:56 PM
He couldn't beat out Salaam = question aswered. :gun:

Yeah but Salaam and Flannagan have pictures of Kubiak and Sherman in the shower together or something. Nobody could beat out Salaam and no power in the universe can get Flannagan's salary cap leeching blob ass off our roster.

Seth Wand was a better LT than Ephraim Salaam and he got asked to turn his play book in by these guys. in favor of versatile depth. That same depth ends up starting for two years.

TEXANRED
10-29-2007, 03:57 PM
My thoughts on Jordan Black? Sure, he sucks.

Thats all I got.

TexansSeminole
10-29-2007, 03:57 PM
In Kansas City he was a starting LT, and could run block, but was horrible in pass protection. He led the league in sacks allowed.

Didn't know that. Some of that great Texan scouting. We need some pass protection...we get a guy like this. We need a pass rush...we get Mario Williams.

gtexan02
10-29-2007, 04:00 PM
Yeah but Salaam and Flannagan have pictures of Kubiak and Sherman in the shower together or something. Nobody could beat out Salaam and no power in the universe can get Flannagan's salary cap leeching blob ass off our roster.

Seth Wand was a better LT than Ephraim Salaam and he got asked to turn his play book in by these guys. in favor of versatile depth. That same depth ends up starting for two years.

No way can you argue that Seth Wand was ever a better LT than Salaam. Salaam was brought in to be a backup last year and performed well. He worked hard, played hard, and played injured.


If Seth Wand was so great, why isn't he on ANY Nfl team this year/

TexansSeminole
10-29-2007, 04:10 PM
If Seth Wand was so great, why isn't he on ANY Nfl team this year/

Because he has been a known project since Day 1. Nobody has time to coach him up except the Texans.

eriadoc
10-29-2007, 04:22 PM
Seth Wand showed some promise, but you can't say he's better than Salaam. You can easily make a case that he's better than Brad Bedell, who was kept in favor of Salaam. Where is Bedell these days, anyway?

inschaubwetrust
10-29-2007, 04:27 PM
Jordan Black? I wasn't aware that he was still on the roster, as poorly as he performed in the pre-season.

Well, my opinion: he was worse than Ephraim Salaam. If you can't find a way to out do that turnstile of a LT, then you have no business in the NFL.

Hervoyel
10-29-2007, 05:50 PM
No way can you argue that Seth Wand was ever a better LT than Salaam. Salaam was brought in to be a backup last year and performed well. He worked hard, played hard, and played injured.


If Seth Wand was so great, why isn't he on ANY Nfl team this year/

Absolutely I can argue that Seth Wand is a better LT right now than Salaam. Do you honestly believe that there aren't guys out there who go home every year who are better than people with jobs in the NFL? Salaam was brought in by Kubiak, because he played in Denver at one time and in the time honored tradition of new NFL coaches everywhere Gary wanted to bring in some of his guys. Sherman did it with Flannagan and later Gado. Kubiak did it with Putzier and Salaam.

I'm not saying he doesn't play hard, work hard, or play injured. I'm saying that he was at best a journeyman LT and that a younger Seth Wand (or even Jordan Black) could play better than what we see out of our LT position on a weekly basis, particularly in the 4th quarter when the only reason Salaam can keep people out of the backfield is that they're 28 points ahead and no longer sending the heavy rush.

Jacksonville, apparently a team on the rise (like we thought the Texans were) couldn't have cared less about keeping Salaam on the roster. We scooped him up like the grateful little bottom-feeders that this franchise has become. Careers come here to end. Guys who should be on the way out come here to get their last payday from the desperate Texans.

TexansSeminole
10-29-2007, 05:53 PM
We scooped him up like the grateful little bottom-feeders that this franchise has become. Careers come here to end. Guys who should be on the way out come here to get their last payday from the desperate Texans.

The worst part about it is that half of our fans don't seem to understand it.

I can't tell you how many times I get on this forum and look at a post and wonder what the hell some of these people are talking about.

Runner
10-29-2007, 07:28 PM
Seth Wand showed some promise, but you can't say he's better than Salaam. You can easily make a case that he's better than Brad Bedell, who was kept in favor of Salaam. Where is Bedell these days, anyway?


The coaches said that Wand and Spencer were neck and neck for the starting LT job. Watching the pre-season games showed the same thing. They gave the job to Spencer, and then kept Salaam because he could play right tackle too. Seth Wand is a better left tackle than Ephraim Salaam; he's about twice the run blocker alone. The Texans need a left tackle.

Remember, Wand only ever blocked for Carr back when most fans were still enamored with Carr. Not a good evaluation scenario.

We've just identified one street free agent that could help the Texans today.

Marcus
10-29-2007, 08:44 PM
We've just identified one street free agent that could help the Texans today.

Oh yeah . . right! :rolleyes:

If Seth Wand were so good, why isn't he on someone's team?

I can understand being upset with Salaam's poor play, but let's not go nose diving into concrete, OK?

GoChiefs, you probably couldn't have picked a worse time to try to get a good evaluation of Black. He's the backup LT to Salaam, and people are as upset with Salaam's play as much as the play of the entire Texans team.

I said this before, and I'll say it again. If you guys think Salaam is stinking it up, wait until he gets hurt. Then with Black as the LT, it won't be long before his nickname is changed from your local "I-69", to our local "I-59".

For Schaub's sake, I hope that never happens.

Runner
10-29-2007, 08:58 PM
He only has to be better then what the Texans have, and he is. He was one of the better run blockers they've had. Davis could actually run behind him and Pitts - look it up. Problem is, the coaches would almost be admitting an error to bring him back. It's easier for them to just say. "we are trying to figure this thing out". Not more effective, just easier.

Wolf
10-29-2007, 09:04 PM
He only has to be better then what the Texans have, and he is. He was one of the better run blockers they've had. Davis could actually run behind him and Pitts - look it up. Problem is, the coaches would almost be admitting an error to bring him back. It's easier for them to just say. "we are trying to figure this thing out". Not more effective, just easier.
true..sadly Davis/Williams isn't here and geeze I'd love to have him here, Dayne just seems really slow this year hitting the holes (more so than last) and that no guy AE (can't spell his name) seemed lightning fast compared to dayne..

edo783
10-29-2007, 09:06 PM
Thoughts on Jordan Black?

Sure, but they don't let you post that type of talk here.

Wolf
10-29-2007, 09:07 PM
wasn't jordan one of the new kids on the block?

BSofA04
10-30-2007, 02:45 AM
Jordan Black has been phenominal while blocking for field goals.
:sarcasm:

kiwitexansfan
10-30-2007, 02:57 AM
Seth Wand = Charley Casserley project = Wasted draft picks.

Runner
10-30-2007, 06:53 AM
Seth Wand = Charley Casserley project = Wasted draft picks.

That's the problem with projects - they are busts around here before they get to develop. Too bad he's not a $50M #1 pick - then he'd have three years of starting to develop, and the coach could tell us how exceptional he is.

He's better than what we have, especially after a year of Mike Munchak coaching. Fixing some of the Texans problems may require making some changes; the good thing about Flanagan going down is they had to put in his better back-up. Same thing with Winston getting some PT last year.

However, they can keep running out the same tired team if that is more comfortable for them. Not much can be done about it from here.

3-5 and the trend is down.


Seth Wand = Charley Casserley project.

However, you did catch the politics of why Wand was replaced by Riley in 2005, ironically they year the offense transitioned from adequate in 2004 to a complete failure in 2005. Coaches make decisions based on things other than on-field performance all the time. That's why fans can't figure out the moves sometimes.

Marcus
10-30-2007, 08:58 AM
However, you did catch the politics of why Wand was replaced by Riley in 2005, ironically they year the offense transitioned from adequate in 2004 to a complete failure in 2005. Coaches make decisions based on things other than on-field performance all the time. That's why fans can't figure out the moves sometimes.

In other words, fans don't know the whole story. You say that he's better than what we now have, while at the same time, he's not on anyone else's team, not even as a backup.

You don't wonder why that is?

Texans Horror
10-30-2007, 11:54 AM
Wand's the tackle that gave them the best production on the field. Nobody before or after has done as well in my book. That he's out there and the Texans haven't signed him is stupid. But I think that's a bridge that might have been burnt when they canned him the first time. It's amazing to me. I think if they'd kept him another two to three weeks on the roster, after Spencer got injured and Salaam obviously was not the answer, he would still be on the team and, IMO, we would not be bitching about the o-line.

Runner
10-30-2007, 07:20 PM
You don't wonder why that is?

About as much as I wonder why Carr is on a roster and people like Testeverde can be brought in as street free agents and be better. I don't think the Texans roster is so stoked with talent it can't be improved.

Politics, system, opportunity - there is a lot that goes into a player's career that they can't control.

Rex King
10-30-2007, 11:16 PM
About as much as I wonder why Carr is on a roster and people like Testeverde can be brought in as street free agents and be better. I don't think the Texans roster is so stoked with talent it can't be improved.

Politics, system, opportunity - there is a lot that goes into a player's career that they can't control.

What politics? I'm not calling you out, I just don't remember politics being involved per se. I remember them making panic moves (for once John McClain was spot on), I remember everything being focussed on reducing sacks - changing schemes, the bell or whistle or gong or whatever to Pavlov train Carr to get rid of the ball, and getting a washed-up right tackle. What I don't remember is Seth Wand saying or doing anything against the coaches or something like that to put him in the doghouse. Or are you saying they were trying to pin the blame for the sackathon on Wand?

Runner
10-30-2007, 11:32 PM
What politics? I'm not calling you out, I just don't remember politics being involved per se. ... What I don't remember is Seth Wand saying or doing anything against the coaches or something like that to put him in the doghouse. Or are you saying they were trying to pin the blame for the sackathon on Wand?

No, I was not talking about politics and anything Wand said or did.


Here is an example of the type of politics that I'm talking about.

The owner likes Carr, so he is the designated starter for 5 years no matter what. No other QB gets a chance. He gets an outlandish extension for very little performance. The David Carr saga was all politics.


I would guess there were some politics around Wand though.

Wand was perceived as a Casserly guy. When the coaches and front office started going at it, some players were inexplicably kept off the field. Riley in favor of Wand is a joke, and Weary was deeper in the doghouse than Wand, among other examples.

When young players are kept off the field early in their careers, it can be tough for them to then make it in the league. It is a fact of the NFL, and many times no fault of the player.

I remember them making panic moves (for once John McClain was spot on), I remember everything being focussed on reducing sacks - changing schemes, the bell or whistle or gong or whatever to Pavlov train Carr to get rid of the ball, and getting a washed-up right tackle.

Ahhh - the good ol' days.

Runner
10-30-2007, 11:38 PM
To get this thread back on topic, Jordan Black was the starting left tackle for a playoff team last year, and so many, many Texans fans were glad to have him. Given the problems the line has had, why doesn't he get some playing time at left tackle or guard? He was supposed to be able to play most positions on the line.

Rex King
10-30-2007, 11:47 PM
Ok, things are a lot clearer. I can see that happening, but in Riley's case, he was brought in before the rift began. I was thinking more along the lines of they brought Riley in, but he was a complete bust, so they didn't want to admit their mistake and reinstall Wand. Which I guess is another flavor of politicing.

Rex King
10-30-2007, 11:53 PM
On Black, I thought he was supposed to be a better RT than LT. Perhaps we may have a better opinion of him if he had to fill in for Winston instead of Salaam.

Runner
10-30-2007, 11:54 PM
Ok, things are a lot clearer. I can see that happening, but in Riley's case, he was brought in before the rift began. I was thinking more along the lines of they brought Riley in, but he was a complete bust, so they didn't want to admit their mistake and reinstall Wand. Which I guess is another flavor of politicing.

If I recall correctly, Riley was on pace to give up almost 30 sacks himself after 2-3 games. They switched Pitts back to left tackle at some point and moved Riley to right guard (ahead of Weary!) either immediately or upon an injury to another lineman.

That Riley must have been some kind of good to earn all that playing time. Or something.

Runner
10-30-2007, 11:57 PM
On Black, ... if he had to fill in for Winston instead of Salaam.


Don't jinx him! Winston is the best young lineman they have, and he's getting a chance to develop.