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View Full Version : Who do we take....???


Ole Miss Texan
10-28-2007, 09:23 PM
Well, I think everyone is freaking out about our season. I don't really see us getting to 8-8 this season anymore so let's just assume we finish 6-10...we have 3 more victories the rest of the year and we'll pretend they are against oakland, new orleans, and tennessee of course :)

So if we end up with the #8 overall pick and the following players are all available...who do we take? These are the top prospects at their positions and of needs for the Texans.

1. Make your pick
2. Post who you selected and why

There are going to be valid arguements for each guy...but if you feel like it please rank the players of the order you'd select them over each other.

Ole Miss Texan
10-28-2007, 09:26 PM
I'll start off and say I would love any of these players, however if I had to choose one I would take Sam Baker. I think we need to fix our OL and get a guy to anchor that spot for 10+ years, protect Schaub b/c he is getting beat up, and open up running lanes for our RB's.

I also really like Stewart and Phillips....these are my top 3 guys...order-wise I'm not so sure.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 09:33 PM
Kenny Phillips in a heart beat. I cannot watch our current safeties blow coverages and just play plain bad any longer.

TexansLucky13
10-28-2007, 09:56 PM
If it's offense in the first round, it needs to be a lineman. We can't draft a RB and hope that he can fix our problems. We have to start from the inside out.

If it's defense, it obviously should be a defensive back.... and probably a safety. I haven't seen any of these guys play but I sure hope they don't get overlooked by our scouts and staff.

beerlover
10-28-2007, 10:03 PM
the best way to take pressure off your QB is a solid running game. until the Texans address this need with a legitimate power/explosive downhill type back, Kubiaks system of a balanced attack that worked in Denver will struggle its too one-dimensional, predictable & easily stopped.

Jonathan Stewart

ps. Ole Miss but I've been watching Sam Baker for a couple years now & he keeps looking older & battle worn each outing. this past weekend against Oregon it looked to me like he hyper-extended his knee & had to remove himself from the field :ouch:

gwallaia
10-28-2007, 10:12 PM
Is Ray Rice entering the draft this year?

bah007
10-28-2007, 10:20 PM
Jonathan Stewart or Dan Connor.

If we are top 10 then I'm not sure Phillips is worth the pick. He still has an impact in the running game but he looks like less of a playmaker against the pass back there than he did last year.

Ole Miss Texan
10-28-2007, 10:39 PM
beerlover- That's too bad about Baker...how do you feel about Ryan Clady? Is he a guy that could sneak up into a top 10-15 pick and be good for the Texans?

gwallaia- I'm not sure if Rice is declaring or not. He's a RB I really like but not in the top half of the 1st round...I'd take him if we traded down.

bah007- I see Stewart and Connor as being solid picks. I think they are safe picks and we know what we're getting... studs. That concerns me about Phillips though, I just really really want a ball-hawking FS...I hope he steps it up.

awtysst
10-28-2007, 10:47 PM
I do not normally participate in draft discussions so early since its hard to know who is in and who is not. Also we have no idea where the Texans will be drafting. That being said, if we were in fact picking 8 I would not select any of those players. We have too many holes as it is, and one player will not make a difference.

So, here is what I would do:
I would trade our 8th pick to the team picking 20 for their #20, #52, and #84. The math works perfectly here. If this occurs we would have #20,#52, #72, and #84.

This would allow us to fill our many holes with very good players. Here are some potential names to consider.
#20: Ryan Clady: OT-Boise State:We need a strong LT and he seems to be a great fit

#52: Terrell Thomas:CB- USC: Put him with Dunta, slide Bennett over to nickle and you now have a very impressive CB group. Oh, and this means we can finally cut Faggins!

#72: Cory Boyd: RB-South Carolina: He has 4.48 speed, has good hands, and can carry the rock through a very tough SEC schedule. I think he would look good in a Texans uni.

#84: Jonathan Hefney, FS, Tennessee. From what i am seeing there are not a lot of good senior FS. This might be the second best one available.

All of these picks seem reasonable(right now) and all could step in and start tomorrow for the Texans. The key to building a successful team is through the draft and wise FA moves. This only takes into account the draft. Clealry we will have a lot of $ to throw around in the off season. I suggest we use some of that money to resign Dunta.

rollinstone18
10-28-2007, 11:14 PM
I do not normally participate in draft discussions so early since its hard to know who is in and who is not. Also we have no idea where the Texans will be drafting. That being said, if we were in fact picking 8 I would not select any of those players. We have too many holes as it is, and one player will not make a difference.

So, here is what I would do:
I would trade our 8th pick to the team picking 20 for their #20, #52, and #84. The math works perfectly here. If this occurs we would have #20,#52, #72, and #84.

This would allow us to fill our many holes with very good players. Here are some potential names to consider.
#20: Ryan Clady: OT-Boise State:We need a strong LT and he seems to be a great fit

#52: Terrell Thomas:CB- USC: Put him with Dunta, slide Bennett over to nickle and you now have a very impressive CB group. Oh, and this means we can finally cut Faggins!

#72: Cory Boyd: RB-South Carolina: He has 4.48 speed, has good hands, and can carry the rock through a very tough SEC schedule. I think he would look good in a Texans uni.

#84: Jonathan Hefney, FS, Tennessee. From what i am seeing there are not a lot of good senior FS. This might be the second best one available.

All of these picks seem reasonable(right now) and all could step in and start tomorrow for the Texans. The key to building a successful team is through the draft and wise FA moves. This only takes into account the draft. Clealry we will have a lot of $ to throw around in the off season. I suggest we use some of that money to resign Dunta.

I like that scenario, but I like Craig Steltz over Hefney. And maybe Xavier Abibi over Thomas. I think Bennett will prove to be a solid #2 CB.

Still, I voted for Phillips. If we have another top ten pick and choose not to trade down, Phillips is the best value pick in my opinion. I wouldn't be upset if we went with Ryan Clady or Jonathan Stewart though.

threetoedpete
10-29-2007, 08:18 AM
McFaddin Falls we switch with Dallas. Dallas selects Darrin McFaddin in the four slot. Texan get 15, 31 and Dallas' 2nd in '08 & '09

1. # 15 over all -Ryan Clady Boise St.
2. # 31 over all - Ezra Butler LB Nevada
3 Dallas 2nd- Reggie smith DB OU
4. our 3- Heath Benedict OL Newberry
5. our 4- Doug Legurski C Marshall

Trade our Extra '09 2 for Turner the burner. But be carefull what you wish for you just may get it.

But to answer the original question I get the best OLineman I can get my hands on. What we have isn't going to develope into a top ten unit. Can I get an ahmen ? If they don't like the guys in that slot you trade back untill the pick fits the need. If they can't do that BPA. I'd guess over pay for a big Corner who has S experence or who translates to safty at the end of his career.

beerlover
10-29-2007, 08:39 AM
I understand the idea of addressing multiple needs via the draft in a trade down scenero, but that was not the option of this poll "who do you take....???"

that said, Clady is a better fit for this team over Baker (not listed). I would love to draft a good young LT, that would be a tough, tough decision to make between Clady & Stewart but I think Stewart grades out higher, again bpa in this scenero as well :specnatz:

kastofsna
10-29-2007, 09:05 AM
BPA. of those guys, it's probably Baker.

beerlover
10-29-2007, 09:12 AM
BPA. of those guys, it's probably Baker.

can you explain why?

eriadoc
10-29-2007, 10:27 AM
I voted Sam Baker, but really, I haven't seen Baker play since last year, so I don't know how he's doing. I'm basically voting for a left tackle. Every year, we fans (and evidently the team) make excuses why we shouldn't draft a left tackle (and later, a center). Every year, this is what we get. From 2002-2004, Carr was making progress, and could have been a good QB in this league, even with what shortcomings he had. Anyone remember David Carr vs. the Vikings in 2004? Anyone remember the heart against the Falcons in 2003? etc., etc., etc. Eventually, it all caught up to him, and he became the "happy feet, ohmygod I'm going to get hit, tuck-and-curl or run out of bounds" David Carr. We all hated that. We have a QB right now that can be a good QB in this league. How long before he turns into the next DC? Granted, it's early to ask that question, but it's worth asking, because I don't want to see another DC here.

Fix the damn offensive line already.

Errant Hothy
10-29-2007, 10:42 AM
Come draft time I think there is a distinct possability that we'll have our shot at McFaddin and if that is the case its McFaddin over all...including all the LTs.

swtbound07
10-29-2007, 11:01 AM
we start CC F'ing Brown. Kenny Phillips, craig Steltz, who the F ever. new free safety. Its not optional.

Errant Hothy
10-29-2007, 11:11 AM
we start CC F'ing Brown. Kenny Phillips, craig Steltz, who the F ever. new free safety. Its not optional.

We are also starting Ahman Green, Salaam, Flannagan, Pitts, Clark, Weaver, Hutchins, Greenwood and Faggins.

Oh how I wish FS was our only issue

Vinny
10-29-2007, 11:12 AM
I hate that this is what Texans fans do mid season every year....it's like a rich tradition.

Brando
10-29-2007, 11:16 AM
I hate that this is what Texans fans do mid season every year....it's like a rich tradition.
no kidding............

:gun:
Kenny Phillips. Do I have to explain why?

powerfuldragon
10-29-2007, 11:17 AM
i wouldn't mind seeing the texans address rb or db in the 1st round this year..

beerlover
10-29-2007, 11:22 AM
here is an interesting angle that I have to give Vinny credit for :vinny: to paraphrase he said that winning teams can still draft better football players than the Texans late in the first round think about it, I think its a valid point.

I'm not sure if its a function of needs or trying to hit the guy with the biggest upside or just the pressure with top 10 draft picks? but they (Pats/Colts) seem to hit the mark repeatedly & produce enough to keep them ahead of the curve, mixing experience with talent balancing the salary cap & enhancing team chemistry.

If the Texans reach for a LT because they need one or think he is the bpa they should think twice & for a change just draft the best football player (bfp) period, now theres a novel concept. case in point - DeMeco Ryans.

if you want a LT thats a football player forget about bpa & draft a player who fits the Texans system, is durable, understands his positions nuances, studies film like a scholar, is selfless putting his teamates 1st, is a warrior & has game to back it up. more & more its apparent this has become a game of psychological warfare the Texans are losing that directly translates to winning football.

Errant Hothy
10-29-2007, 12:23 PM
I hate that this is what Texans fans do mid season every year....it's like a rich tradition.

What else are we supposed to do, plan a play-off watch party or something?

:sarcasm:

badboy
10-29-2007, 01:14 PM
here is an interesting angle that I have to give Vinny credit for :vinny: to paraphrase he said that winning teams can still draft better football players than the Texans late in the first round think about it, I think its a valid point.

I'm not sure if its a function of needs or trying to hit the guy with the biggest upside or just the pressure with top 10 draft picks? but they (Pats/Colts) seem to hit the mark repeatedly & produce enough to keep them ahead of the curve, mixing experience with talent balancing the salary cap & enhancing team chemistry.

If the Texans reach for a LT because they need one or think he is the bpa they should think twice & for a change just draft the best football player (bfp) period, now theres a novel concept. case in point - DeMeco Ryans.

if you want a LT thats a football player forget about bpa & draft a player who fits the Texans system, is durable, understands his positions nuances, studies film like a scholar, is selfless putting his teamates 1st, is a warrior & has game to back it up. more & more its apparent this has become a game of psychological warfare the Texans are losing that directly translates to winning football.

Is it possible that a team like Pats and Colts draft picks look better than ours because they have better players around them and less pressure to be "worth the pick"?

I have always been a proponent of a LT. I am not sure Baker is the guy, but with a trade down, Clady could look like a smart pick. We need to protect Schaub or he will become a Carr. I am now leaning towards RB if the right one is there, BUT I just do not see Smith drafting one with our commitment to Green for at least one more year. $6-7 million guaranteed is a lot to swallow.

The gamecock RB was suspended in 2005 for "non academic" issues and when he came back I understand he missed practice. Has that been cleared up? Slashing a lady's tire is serious but maybe he has matured.

badboy
10-29-2007, 01:17 PM
What else are we supposed to do, plan a play-off watch party or something?

:sarcasm:That was part of the original 5 year plan. We are now on our 2nd 5 year plan. Starting to sound like the old USSR. 5 year plans worked well for them. Putin will announced his any day.

kastofsna
10-29-2007, 01:23 PM
here is an interesting angle that I have to give Vinny credit for :vinny: to paraphrase he said that winning teams can still draft better football players than the Texans late in the first round think about it, I think its a valid point.
one of the main reasons they manage to hit so many key guys in the latter part of round one is coaching. the rookies just have a better coaching staff and do better because of that. especially if a team with poor coaching drafts a pretty raw player early on.

beerlover
10-29-2007, 07:26 PM
one of the main reasons they manage to hit so many key guys in the latter part of round one is coaching. the rookies just have a better coaching staff and do better because of that. especially if a team with poor coaching drafts a pretty raw player early on.

certainly thats one.

could be they just have a better understanding of the total process from start to finish.

Giant Tiger
10-29-2007, 08:12 PM
I voted for Baker, but I'd rather trade down to get extra picks. We need a LT for Schaub plus our line looks like they're getting pushed backwards inside the 5 yard line. I'd like to get a C too.:twocents:

Carr Bombed
10-29-2007, 08:17 PM
If you believe Schaub is the longterm answer here........bite the bullet, support your guy, and get him a damn LT.......period.

Do y'all realize in the time the Texans have been searching for a long term answer at LT, ALL OUR DIVISIONAL RIVALS HAVE REPLACED THEIR OLD ONES AND FOUND ANOTHER.

Fix the Oline.

Ole Miss Texan
10-29-2007, 08:54 PM
If the Texans reach for a LT because they need one or think he is the bpa they should think twice & for a change just draft the best football player (bfp) period, now theres a novel concept. case in point - DeMeco Ryans.


Demeco Ryans was a great pick. Last year I thought Patrick Willis was the safest pick in the entire draft. You know exactly what your going to get with him and that's a stud. IMO he was basically risk free...sure fire great player.

This year, I'm starting to think Jonathan Stewart is that pick. I think Stewart is going to be such a solid running back and not risky at all. When we get to FS like Phillips or a LT like Clady or Baker...I think it becomes more risky.

You take the chance of really upgrading your team with a stud LT but then again he may not turn out to be that. I think a LT would do the most for this team but it's more Risky of a pick. I think if we pick stewart, we know exactly what we're getting and that is a good thing because he's "guaranteed" to be good, in my opinion.

Brandon420tx
10-29-2007, 09:29 PM
They pick me with the 13th pick, I become the new defensive co-ordinator and our defense scores 10 touchdowns next year!

Ole Miss Texan
10-29-2007, 09:56 PM
They pick me with the 13th pick, I become the new defensive co-ordinator and our defense scores 10 touchdowns next year!

So do we trade down to get you? If so what other picks do we receive? :pirate:

beerlover
10-29-2007, 10:37 PM
Demeco Ryans was a great pick. Last year I thought Patrick Willis was the safest pick in the entire draft. You know exactly what your going to get with him and that's a stud. IMO he was basically risk free...sure fire great player.

This year, I'm starting to think Jonathan Stewart is that pick. I think Stewart is going to be such a solid running back and not risky at all. When we get to FS like Phillips or a LT like Clady or Baker...I think it becomes more risky.

You take the chance of really upgrading your team with a stud LT but then again he may not turn out to be that. I think a LT would do the most for this team but it's more Risky of a pick. I think if we pick stewart, we know exactly what we're getting and that is a good thing because he's "guaranteed" to be good, in my opinion.

well at least we're getting closer to some answears. the Texans need to maximize bang for the buck & your correct in your conclusion its safer plus you get more bang for your buck by addressing LB or RB. Does anyone remember the Texans expansion team led by then ILB Jamie Sharper? everyone says take a LT take a LT but they just don't apparate out of thin air like some wizard in Harry Potter or grow in trees like apples & oranges.

last year there where those who laughed at me when I wanted the Texans to draft Levi Brown, said he wasnt good enough, didnt fit the scheme, yada yada yada well we didnt even get that choice because someone ahead of us thought better of it. Now come next draft if the Texans are staring down Jake Long with their selection then go for it by all means otherwise we'll all just have to hold our collective breath & hope Charles Spencer makes a full recovery or new tackle (not Baker) can grasp the concept of what it means to play LT in the NFL & not someones jersey for a holding call.

threetoedpete
10-30-2007, 12:25 AM
we start CC F'ing Brown. Kenny Phillips, craig Steltz, who the F ever. new free safety. Its not optional.

The HC today on his show on 610 gave an impenetrable , I post again , impenetrable endorcement of C.C. Brown. We ain't drafting a FS on day one.
He likes his safties.

Ole Miss Texan
10-30-2007, 12:52 AM
The HC today on his show on 610 gave an impenetrable , I post again , impenetrable endorcement of C.C. Brown. We ain't drafting a FS on day one.
He likes his safties.

CC is our SS now...but with Boulware...Glenn eventually coming back from injury...drafting of B. Harrison last year.. we've got a lot of SS's. I guess CC would move back to FS.

BSofA04
10-30-2007, 01:25 AM
I voted for Sam Baker but am willing to take the best Left Tackle available with our first pick. Our secondary might be crap right now, but losing our franchise QB to injury because of current LT can't shift his weight is worse. Much worse in the long term. Salaam has to go back to the bench and Schaub deserves better. Here's my top LT prospects in order of preference....
1. Jake Long Michigan (it would be great to get him, but it would also suck because we're picking in the top ten...again)
2. Gosdner Cherilus BC (been very impressed watching him play, seems to be very comfortable switching from RT to LT this year)
3. Sam Baker USC (great prospect but excels in the passing game while inconsistent at the running game)
4. Tony Hills UT (above average LT but has been know to get beat by inferior competition. Plays too high at times which causes him to lose leverage. Houston native)

Best Underclassmen
1. Phil Loadholt Oklahoma (6'8" 350 lb. man-child. Doing a solid job with limited D-I experience. Instant starter once transfered from JC. Is also deceivingly quick. Possibly be available in the 2nd/3rd Round??)
2. Ryan Clady Boise St.(seems athletic but his lower body strength is a concern.)

kiwitexansfan
10-30-2007, 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by Vinny
I hate that this is what Texans fans do mid season every year....it's like a rich tradition.


Yep, it is what Texans fans do..... after the loss last week my first inclination was head to the draft forum and start finding the next group of Houston Texans.

The thing is I think we draft ok, its not like we're letting Matt Millen draft for us. Things break down once they become Texans, the schemes we run just don't work with the talent we have.

kiwitexansfan
10-30-2007, 02:09 AM
The HC today on his show on 610 gave an impenetrable , I post again , impenetrable endorcement of C.C. Brown. We ain't drafting a FS on day one.
He likes his safties.

Reading this endorsement made me feel like this..:tearup: then like this :bat: and finally like this :cry2:

CoastalTexan
10-30-2007, 08:14 AM
For us Texan Fans the draft is the highlight of our year because we have never sniffed the playoffs.

Ole Miss Texan
10-31-2007, 10:24 AM
So after doing some reading around the internet, apparently Malcolm Jenkins from Ohio St. is the best CB if he declares? Plays man-to-man and has good size, 6-1 208lbs.

I was thinking about 'what if this guy was rated higher than all the others on our board'...so we select him. As much needs as we have on our team, its still not like cb is a strength...

Can you imagine how good our cb's would be if we had Dunta Robinson (top 10 pick)...Malcolm Jenkins (top 10 pick) as our starters and then Fred Bennet coming off the bench...with Faggins backing up! That would be awesome cb's and probably our biggest strength on the team!

painekiller
11-01-2007, 01:44 AM
For those of you who don't know this is a deep draft for tackles, you do not have to take Joe Thomas or bust in the top 15,

My OT to Watch list. (not in any order)

Jake Long 6-7 305 Michigan
Sam Baker 6-5 308 Southern California
Michael Oher 6-6 322 Ole Miss
Jeff Otah 6-6 340 Pitt
Andrew Gardner 6-6 300 Georgia Tech (Jr)
Chris Williams 6-6 320 Vanderbilt
Phil Loadholt 6-7 350 Oklahoma (JC Xfer)
Ryan Clady 6-6 319 Boise St. Jr.
Kirk Barton 6-6 300 Ohio St. (RT)
Alex Boone 6-7 315 Ohio St. (LT) Jr.
Breno Giacomini 6-7 305 Louisville (because I like his name)

I am not saying all these guys are first rounders, they are just guys that have caught my eye, there are others that will go in the top 120 picks. My favorite two guys are Clady and Boone, both juniors, both have great feet. And both can be had after a trade down based on current rankings.

As for seniors Williams and Oher have impressed me, and they can be had mid round, or maybe push Baker out of the top 10. Our current pick of 9 would have us taking a dang good OT, and a trade down could net us a 2nd and 3rd rounder and still a stud OT in the 1st. Trade down is my vote, is every year we have been a team.

painekiller
11-01-2007, 01:46 AM
Can you imagine how good our cb's would be if we had Dunta Robinson (top 10 pick)...Malcolm Jenkins (top 10 pick) as our starters and then Fred Bennet coming off the bench...with Faggins backing up! That would be awesome cb's and probably our biggest strength on the team!

That would be nice, but our safeties still need a huge upgrade. And I am wondering if it's not time for a new DB coach.

CLTEXAN_FAN
11-01-2007, 04:48 AM
Sam Baker only because if we use our first pick on the Defense again I may jump off a cliff.

The line needs help.

Pearl Trade
11-01-2007, 07:11 AM
Kenny Philips. its awful watching our curent safeties get beat every time

HOU-TEX
11-01-2007, 10:09 AM
Glen Dorsey. :worm:

Ole Miss Texan
11-01-2007, 11:12 AM
For those of you who don't know this is a deep draft for tackles, you do not have to take Joe Thomas or bust in the top 15,

My OT to Watch list. (not in any order)

Jake Long 6-7 305 Michigan
Sam Baker 6-5 308 Southern California
Michael Oher 6-6 322 Ole Miss
Jeff Otah 6-6 340 Pitt
Andrew Gardner 6-6 300 Georgia Tech (Jr)
Chris Williams 6-6 320 Vanderbilt
Phil Loadholt 6-7 350 Oklahoma (JC Xfer)
Ryan Clady 6-6 319 Boise St. Jr.
Kirk Barton 6-6 300 Ohio St. (RT)
Alex Boone 6-7 315 Ohio St. (LT) Jr.
Breno Giacomini 6-7 305 Louisville (because I like his name)

I am not saying all these guys are first rounders, they are just guys that have caught my eye, there are others that will go in the top 120 picks. My favorite two guys are Clady and Boone, both juniors, both have great feet. And both can be had after a trade down based on current rankings.

As for seniors Williams and Oher have impressed me, and they can be had mid round, or maybe push Baker out of the top 10. Our current pick of 9 would have us taking a dang good OT, and a trade down could net us a 2nd and 3rd rounder and still a stud OT in the 1st. Trade down is my vote, is every year we have been a team.

I'd be thrilled with a trade down and get a great LT. However like you said not many of these guys are 1st round guys. i'm not familiar with some of them but would they even fit this team?

Guestimating at this point:
Senior Jake Long- 1st rounder-probably long gone by the time we pick...won't be had in a trade down.
Senior Sam Baker-1st rounder- have a shot at him...don't think we can get him if we trade down.
Senior Jeff Otah- I havn't seen him as 1st round talent so we could def. get him in a trade down. He's a huge guy but from what I've read he's more of a RT in the pros...so i wouldn't pencil him in as a solid LT pick for us yet. (2nd-3rd rd guy?)
Senior Chris Williams- I havn't seen or heard much of him but what i have is good. He could be underated at this point and can be had in a trade down... he could be a good option for us at LT(2nd-3rd rd guy?)-good trade down guy
Senior Kirk Barton- As you mentioned a RT...not sure if we're going to trade down to pick up a RT to switch him to LT in the pros...Don't see him as our stud guy to get...but I havn't watched him.
Senior Breno Giacomini- Awesome name...

so of the seniors..I only see 2 1st round talents that won't be had in a trade down.

Underclassmen:
Michael Oher- he's a junior and I feel pretty confident he's going to stay for his senior year. It would do him well b/c the limited action I've seen him in..he hasn't been dominant. At this point I think he's a late first/ early second type of pick because he has so much potential and can play all along the line. Should he stay in school and get one more year under his belt..he should be a top 20 pick easy for 2009 (probably a 5-15 pick).
Andrew Gardner-know nothing about him
Phil Loadholt- I've heard good things about this guy not sure if he comes out if he'd be late 1st or early 2nd...sounds like a stud..good trade down guy.
Ryan Clady- Heard more positives about him than most other prospects, probably a mid 1st rounder to late 1st? Excellent trade down guy.
Alex Boone- don't know anything about him but havn't heard much of him being a early pick if he declares...

So with limited knowledge on these prospects and purely speculating at this point..I don't really see us getting a crack at a bonafide stud LT. We've got 6 guys that are for sure entering the draft, 2 of whom will not be had in a trade down from our #9. 2 of whom are probably more suited for RT. 1 definite viable option and 1 I don't know about. Of the 5 underclassmen...how many are really going to declare? Oher I dont think will. That leaves Ryan Clady and Phil Loadholt as two guys I know some of that sound really good. The other two I'm unfamiliar with.

So if half the juniors declare and we trade down..I really see probably 3 or 4 viable options for us at LT for next season...assuming they grade out to be a late 1st, or 2nd/3rd round guys. I'm also assuming these guys would be ones we would target and fit our system (whatever the hell system this is).

All in all thanks a lot for posting your watch list. As you can see I'm unfamiliar with many of them so this will be a great list many of us can go off of and try to watch.

Ole Miss Texan
11-01-2007, 11:20 AM
That would be nice, but our safeties still need a huge upgrade. And I am wondering if it's not time for a new DB coach.

I've been wondering a similar thing...about a new DB coach. Mr. Hoke needs to turn things around.

The free safety position is the one position that has me scratching my head the most about. I ...scuse me...all of us fans seem to thing its a huge problem. We see all the blown assignments, being late to the wr, completely missing a wr/te several times. I think the safeties have hurt our secondary more than our cb's. However...everything I hear from Kubiak and the other coaches is that it doesn't seem to be a big deal to them. CC is playing well, Faggins is the other guy at cb...hutching is good. I just don't get it. If we have Faggins at Cb AND either CC or Hutchins at FS...we will ALWAYS have a bad secondary.

somethings gotta be done there but for some strange feeling I feel like nothing will ever change.

YoungTexanFan
11-01-2007, 12:13 PM
I've been wondering a similar thing...about a new DB coach. Mr. Hoke needs to turn things around.

The free safety position is the one position that has me scratching my head the most about. I ...scuse me...all of us fans seem to thing its a huge problem. We see all the blown assignments, being late to the wr, completely missing a wr/te several times. I think the safeties have hurt our secondary more than our cb's. However...everything I hear from Kubiak and the other coaches is that it doesn't seem to be a big deal to them. CC is playing well, Faggins is the other guy at cb...hutching is good. I just don't get it. If we have Faggins at Cb AND either CC or Hutchins at FS...we will ALWAYS have a bad secondary.

somethings gotta be done there but for some strange feeling I feel like nothing will ever change.


Phillips has not been playing that well this year, and is more of a SS than a FS. I think FS is a natural position that you either are born to play or aren't. Brown is obviously not a FS, but I feel that Craig Steltz is a natural FS and he isn't a first round guy. He isn't an athletic freak, he is just a player. He makes good things happen, and that is all we can ask for. He takes good angles, and he understands where to be and what to do around the ball.

bah007
11-01-2007, 12:25 PM
Phillips has not been playing that well this year, and is more of a SS than a FS. I think FS is a natural position that you either are born to play or aren't. Brown is obviously not a FS, but I feel that Craig Steltz is a natural FS and he isn't a first round guy. He isn't an athletic freak, he is just a player. He makes good things happen, and that is all we can ask for. He takes good angles, and he understands where to be and what to do around the ball.

Too bad we dont have a 2nd round pick.

I dont see Steltz falling to the 3rd. He's been solid all year.

badboy
11-01-2007, 01:20 PM
Too bad we dont have a 2nd round pick.

I dont see Steltz falling to the 3rd. He's been solid all year.But we could have one if we do trade down for a LT in 1st, FS in 2nd, a RB in 3rd, center in 4th, OLB in 5th. If Samuel can play more than cover 2, we could get him in FA. As we are going to win the majority of our remaining games, this scenario will not play out.:user:

Errant Hothy
11-01-2007, 02:28 PM
Let's play what if:

- What if when we get on the clock all the LT propects are still there and so is McFadden...who you taking?

- What if Jonathan Stwerart and all but the top LT prospect is there...who you taking?

- Same as above but you are offered a lower 1st and another 3rd...who you taking?

kastofsna
11-01-2007, 02:32 PM
McFadden is the clear best player in this draft, you obviously take him without question.

Ole Miss Texan
11-01-2007, 03:23 PM
Let's play what if:

- What if when we get on the clock all the LT propects are still there and so is McFadden...who you taking?

I take McFadden.

- What if Jonathan Stwerart and all but the top LT prospect is there...who you taking?

Tough one but I probably take the LT propect unless Stewart is graded our higher than he is.

- Same as above but you are offered a lower 1st and another 3rd...who you taking?

Depends how many spots we drop/how low the 1st round pick is. According to the Pick Value Chart..dropping from 9th to 13th would get you the corresponding 3rd round pick. It depends who is still available at our 9th pick besides Stewart and the LT. But I would probably make this trade down for sure (yikes like when we got TJ). Trading down we would still be looking at J. Stewart, S. Baker, M.Jenkins, D. Connor, R.Clady,R. Smith, etc. I think we would get a real solid player and have that 3rd for a Center or a Running back?

badboy
11-01-2007, 03:50 PM
Let's play what if:

- What if when we get on the clock all the LT propects are still there and so is McFadden...who you taking?

I take McFadden.

- What if Jonathan Stwerart and all but the top LT prospect is there...who you taking?

Tough one but I probably take the LT propect unless Stewart is graded our higher than he is.

- Same as above but you are offered a lower 1st and another 3rd...who you taking?

Depends how many spots we drop/how low the 1st round pick is. According to the Pick Value Chart..dropping from 9th to 13th would get you the corresponding 3rd round pick. It depends who is still available at our 9th pick besides Stewart and the LT. But I would probably make this trade down for sure (yikes like when we got TJ). Trading down we would still be looking at J. Stewart, S. Baker, M.Jenkins, D. Connor, R.Clady,R. Smith, etc. I think we would get a real solid player and have that 3rd for a Center or a Running back?

I agree. I really want a solid LT but from what I read, McFadden is going to be good. Fantasies aside, Green is here next year with guaranteed money. I would be stunned if Smith took a RB in first. Look for a trade down like you mention. If we can solidify two spots, it is hard to argue against. I'm not sure which is rated a higher need by Kubes, center or FS. For the life of me I do not understand his satisfaction with our FS.

painekiller
11-01-2007, 05:18 PM
I'd be thrilled with a trade down and get a great LT. However like you said not many of these guys are 1st round guys. i'm not familiar with some of them but would they even fit this team?

[/B]

I said not all where 1st rounders, I did not say not many where 1st rounders. Just wanted to be clear. It is still early in the draft boards game and at this time 2 years ago, Winston was still a 1st rounder, so all ranking and projected list need to be taken with a huge sack of salt.

But I have seen list that 6 OTs in the top 23 players. Will all of the juniors declare? No. Will all projected 1st rounder stay top 31 players? No (remember #32 this year will the the 1st pick of the 2nd round due to NE having to give up there 1st rounder).

But I am seeing a large number of big uglies that can play OT available for the draft. I am saying OT because I am not sold on using a rookie at LT, and besides I would be willing to give Winston a shot at LT, and drafting a road grader for the RT.

TexansSeminole
11-01-2007, 06:38 PM
I think the depths of the positions are pretty important.

Would most of you agree that we need to DRAFT a FS/CB and O-line this year? We need to draft someone in the secondary IMO.

How deep are the FS, CB, and O-line positions in this draft?

From what I can see, FS is pretty thin but CB is actually kind of strong.

I don't know too much about O-lineman but from what I can tell it isn't a thin group at tackle or center.

If a position like FS is thin past the second round what is your draft plan?

Insideop
11-02-2007, 12:03 AM
Demeco Ryans was a great pick. Last year I thought Patrick Willis was the safest pick in the entire draft. You know exactly what your going to get with him and that's a stud. IMO he was basically risk free...sure fire great player.

This year, I'm starting to think Jonathan Stewart is that pick. I think Stewart is going to be such a solid running back and not risky at all. When we get to FS like Phillips or a LT like Clady or Baker...I think it becomes more risky.

You take the chance of really upgrading your team with a stud LT but then again he may not turn out to be that. I think a LT would do the most for this team but it's more Risky of a pick. I think if we pick stewart, we know exactly what we're getting and that is a good thing because he's "guaranteed" to be good, in my opinion.

I voted for Sam Baker because he was the only LT on the list and we need a LT badly. Having said that though, I do agree with OMT about Stewart. For some reason I don't know why (gut feeling maybe), I think Stewart may end up being the best pick. I got the same feeling about Okoye last year and Mario the year before, even when I thought there was no way the Texans would pick them. But, it's a long way to the draft and a lot of football left to play, and a lot can happen between now and then. So, like the rest of you, I'll just keep speculating on the future of the team and what they will do, because it's fun!

badboy
11-02-2007, 08:53 AM
I think the depths of the positions are pretty important.

Would most of you agree that we need to DRAFT a FS/CB and O-line this year? We need to draft someone in the secondary IMO.

How deep are the FS, CB, and O-line positions in this draft?

From what I can see, FS is pretty thin but CB is actually kind of strong.

I don't know too much about O-lineman but from what I can tell it isn't a thin group at tackle or center.

If a position like FS is thin past the second round what is your draft plan?Since we are playing what if, a reasonable scenario would entail Bennett becoming a solid #2 CB and Faggins moving to Nickle. Is FS then as glaring a weakness? Especially if an OLB that can cover is brought in. Another could be picking up a solid CB in FA as we have the money. Asante Samuel could be had for $30m in first three years of a five year deal. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/07/17/no_new_deal_for_samuel/

The1ApplePie
11-02-2007, 09:43 AM
I'd go Stewart. You don't win championships by drafting RBs in the later rounds.

Unless you find an LT who is a absolute freak like Pace, I don't see why you draft one that high with all the holes he have.

Jake Long is more of a Guard prospect I think

It will be a safety, CB, or RB. McNair needs to get the merch selling and TV markets back, and O-Linemen don't get any of that done.

I'd say Conner for a good pick if McFadden or Stewart isn't there. Kid's a freak and a good LB can run a defense.

If we could trade down and get a CB in the first and Slaton in the 2nd, that would be the best case scenario.

kastofsna
11-02-2007, 10:19 AM
Jake Long is more of a Guard prospect I think

justify that statement.

badboy
11-02-2007, 10:30 AM
justify that statement.I'm interested also. Never heard that before. Also would you go with Slaton in 2nd when an Aldridge from Houston or Charles from UT may be had lower? Or other back with similar skills? I see Slaton as more of a "scat back" that could work on Texans but not for many carries.

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 10:34 AM
I'd go Stewart. You don't win championships by drafting RBs in the later rounds.

Willie Parker, Kevin Faulk, Terrell Davis and Michael Pittman seem to like their rings just fine.

tulexan
11-02-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm interested also. Never heard that before. Also would you go with Slaton in 2nd when an Aldridge from Houston or Charles from UT may be had lower? Or other back with similar skills? I see Slaton as more of a "scat back" that could work on Texans but not for many carries.

I wouldn't draft Charles at all. He hasn't been very good since his freshman season (who was the quarterback on that team?) and fumbles a lot. I don't think Aldridge is anything more than a 3rd down back. He may be fast, but he is too small.

kastofsna
11-02-2007, 11:08 AM
Willie Parker, Kevin Faulk, Terrell Davis and Michael Pittman seem to like their rings just fine.
i'm sure Joseph Addai, Jamal Lewis, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, and of course some recent conference champs with Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, Shaun Alexander, Eddie George, etc.

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 11:26 AM
i'm sure Joseph Addai, Jamal Lewis, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, and of course some recent conference champs with Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, Shaun Alexander, Eddie George, etc.

By no means am I saying a 1st round back is a bad thing to have--just that it is silly to act as if you have to have one to win a championship. 1st round RB's have won three of the last ten championships.

tulexan
11-02-2007, 11:29 AM
i'm sure Joseph Addai, Jamal Lewis, Marshall Faulk, Emmitt Smith, and of course some recent conference champs with Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, Shaun Alexander, Eddie George, etc.

Do you really want to bring up Cedric Benson as an example of a running back who was drafted high who carried their team to success?

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 11:44 AM
Do you really want to bring up Cedric Benson as an example of a running back who was drafted high who carried their team to success?

Including Thomas Jones is kind of dubious as well. Yes he was a 1st rounder but one who was considered a bust until he got to his third team, who promptly drafted a replacement for him.

beerlover
11-02-2007, 11:51 AM
Willie Parker, Kevin Faulk, Terrell Davis and Michael Pittman seem to like their rings just fine.

what works for a few more often than not eludes others many times over :cool:

news flash- the Texans still lack enough talented players to compete each week in the NFL. RB happens to be just one of many positions needing addressed, how Rick Smith goes about this buisness of projecting/fitting in roster spots to build a cohesive unit that can withstand injurys, create mis-matches & out execute the opposition is a tall order but one I'm confident he will accomplish. just because you don't need an elite RB to win a Superbowl or that Denver has never spent a 1st rd. pick on a RB does not mean if the bpa when the Texans select or trade down offers don't return enough, whatever, if Jonathan Stewart grades out here both in terms of NEED, CHARACTER, TALENT, DURABILITY & UPSIDE then he'd take him regardless what you or anybody else think's for that matter :cowboy1:

painekiller
11-02-2007, 11:55 AM
1 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 2001 1st round
2 Larry Johnson KC 2003 1st round
3 Frank Gore SF 2005 3rd round
4 Tiki Barber NYG 1997 2nd round
5 Steven Jackson STL 2004 1st round
6 Willie Parker PIT undrafted FA
7 Rudi Johnson CIN 2001 4th rounder
8 Brian Westbrook PHI 2002 3rd rounder
9 Chester Taylor MIN 2002 6th rounder
10 Travis Henry TEN 2001 2nd rounder
11 Thomas Jones CHI 2000 1st rounder
12 Edgerrin James ARI 1999 1st rounder
13 Ladell Betts WAS 2002 2nd rounder
14 Fred Taylor JAC 1998 1st rounder
15 Warrick Dunn ATL 1997 1st rounder
16 Jamal Lewis BAL 2000 1st rounder
17 Julius Jones DAL 2004 2nd rounder
18 Joseph Addai IND 2006 1st rounder
19 Ahman Green GB 1998 3rd rounder
20 Deuce McAllister NO 2007 1st rounder
21 Tatum Bell DEN 2004 2nd rounder
22 Ronnie Brown MIA 2005 1st rounder

Of the twenty two 1000 yd backs last year, that's only 63 yds/game, half where 1st rounders (11), 5 where 2nd rounders and 3 where not 1st day talents (4-7 rounder or UDFA).

30 1st round picks where spent on RB from 1997 to 2006 (the years of the player on above list) 85 where picked on the 1st day during this time. There is a high bust factor in selecting a RB in the 1 round, and more so in a 1st day pick.

But the reward for drafting a great back is huge, the issue lies more so in where in the 1st round the back is drafted, as to the risk cost factor, after the mid point of the 1st round the backs tend to be a lower risk than the top 10 picked backs are. IMO this is due to the teams being more established before drafting RB, and this factor alone say go with the OL in the 1st and RB in the 2nd.

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 11:59 AM
just because you don't need an elite RB to win a Superbowl or that Denver has never spent a 1st rd. pick on a RB does not mean if the bpa when the Texans select or trade down offers don't return enough, whatever, if Jonathan Stewart grades out here both in terms of NEED, CHARACTER, TALENT, DURABILITY & UPSIDE then he'd take him regardless what you or anybody else think's for that matter :cowboy1:

I have repeatedly made the point that people should disregard Denver's drafting history and that as Kubiak has already demonstrated he is willing to take a 1st round RB. Right now Stewart looks like a great possibility next year and I am not against 1st round RB's at all. My only point was asserting you have to have a 1st round RB to win a championship is demonstrably false--sure it helps, but it isn't a necessity.

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 12:01 PM
Of the twenty two 1000 yd backs last year, that's only 63 yds/game, half where 1st rounders (11), 5 where 2nd rounders and 3 where not 1st day talents (4-7 rounder or UDFA).

You can do the same analysis for basically every position. On average the talent is higher at the top of the draft and therefore so are the results.

kastofsna
11-02-2007, 12:20 PM
Do you really want to bring up Cedric Benson as an example of a running back who was drafted high who carried their team to success?
he was integral to their offense.

i was just pointing out the other side of the story. really, with any sitatuon where someone makes a point for drafting a player high or low, there's plenty of examples of the opposite. or when someone says "you have to sit a QB" or "you have to start them right away" there's always going to be a counterpoint with just as much evidence.

you don't need a first round QB or RB to win a Super Bowl, but plenty of them have won Super Bowls, and plenty of non-first rounders have won Super Bowls. really can't make a case against either one.

kastofsna
11-02-2007, 12:21 PM
You can do the same analysis for basically every position. On average the talent is higher at the top of the draft and therefore so are the results.
i think the numbers speak to how well teams actually do draft. everyone calls it a crapshoot, but bottomline, the majority of great players tend to be first rounders.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 01:01 PM
Kenny Phillips in a heart beat. I cannot watch our current safeties blow coverages and just play plain bad any longer.

I'm with you. I've been wanting a safety for a couple of drafts now. I'm tired of seeing these guys come out and then seeing them make plays. Safety has never been a high 1st round or 1st round staple for many but that has changed over the last few years and you can see a difference when someone is hawking and hitting back there.

TexansSeminole
11-02-2007, 01:28 PM
I'm with you. I've been wanting a safety for a couple of drafts now. I'm tired of seeing these guys come out and then seeing them make plays. Safety has never been a high 1st round or 1st round staple for many but that has changed over the last few years and you can see a difference when someone is hawking and hitting back there.

I think Kenny Phillips could do wonders for the secondary.



Also kastofsna, Steltz seems to be a SS to me. I see him make a few plays in coverage, but it looks to me like the guy plays closer to the line of scrimmage than most safeties. He makes alot of plays sideline to sideline but I just don't understand why you think he is more of a FS than Phillips. They both cover ground well but I think Phillips is better in covering the field on passing downs. I realize Kenny is not having a great year but his team is having a pretty crap year.

I just don't see Steltz being more successful than Phillips when it comes to deep zone or the ability to cover a slot guy man to man in the NFL. Please respond because I usually read you and YTF for alot of draft information.

bah007
11-02-2007, 02:17 PM
I wouldn't draft Charles at all. He hasn't been very good since his freshman season (who was the quarterback on that team?) and fumbles a lot. I don't think Aldridge is anything more than a 3rd down back. He may be fast, but he is too small.

In 22 career games in the Big 12, Charles has 1584 yds & 17 TDs on 278 carries (thats 5.70 yds per carry).

He doesnt get many yds because Greg Davis has had no clue what to do since Vince Young left.

He is the fastest guy on the team & they cant even get him touches because Davis needs a once in a lifetime college QB to make his schemes work.

Charles has run a 4.20 (wind-aided) 40 yard dash. At 6-1, 205, even a 4.3 40 would get him a very nice signing bonus on draft day.

BTW, Charles is a junior and only 2 players have ever declared early at Texas while Mack Brown has been the head coach, so I see Jamaal sticking around until year next.

badboy
11-02-2007, 03:00 PM
I wouldn't draft Charles at all. He hasn't been very good since his freshman season (who was the quarterback on that team?) and fumbles a lot. I don't think Aldridge is anything more than a 3rd down back. He may be fast, but he is too small.But that is the way I see Slaton, as a not every down back. I do not see drafting a "scat back" higher than 3rd, if then. We have to many other needs. Charles has put ball on ground but has also put up some yardage numbers also. I would not draft him either unless he fell to 5th. By the way Slaton is 195lbs 5'10". Anthony is 5'9" 175.

Ole Miss Texan
11-02-2007, 03:12 PM
But that is the way I see Slaton, as a not every down back. I do not see drafting a "scat back" higher than 3rd, if then. We have to many other needs. Charles has put ball on ground but has also put up some yardage numbers also. I would not draft him either unless he fell to 5th. By the way Slaton is 195lbs 5'10". Anthony is 5'9" 175.

Steve Slaton would be a perfect draft pick for our team if we were picking at say 22 and had our OL shored up, healthy QB, 3 good wr's, 1 good strong young RB, good TE, solid DL and LB corpse and had our FS and CB #2 spot filled.

HoustonFrog
11-02-2007, 03:14 PM
In 22 career games in the Big 12, Charles has 1584 yds & 17 TDs on 278 carries (thats 5.70 yds per carry).

He doesnt get many yds because Greg Davis has had no clue what to do since Vince Young left.

He is the fastest guy on the team & they cant even get him touches because Davis needs a once in a lifetime college QB to make his schemes work.

Charles has run a 4.20 (wind-aided) 40 yard dash. At 6-1, 205, even a 4.3 40 would get him a very nice signing bonus on draft day.

BTW, Charles is a junior and only 2 players have ever declared early at Texas while Mack Brown has been the head coach, so I see Jamaal sticking around until year next.

All good except that the guy is full of FUMBLES!!! and has made it a habit at times. If college guys are poking around knowcking balls out what are trained pros who tackle and punch in one motion going to do. Don't get me wrong, the kid can be impressive but I see him fumbling and getting banged up.

badboy
11-02-2007, 04:04 PM
Steve Slaton would be a perfect draft pick for our team if we were picking at say 22 and had our OL shored up, healthy QB, 3 good wr's, 1 good strong young RB, good TE, solid DL and LB corpse and had our FS and CB #2 spot filled.I could sign off on that, but I would leave off the e on corpse. They aren't that bad. J/K.

badboy
11-02-2007, 04:09 PM
All good except that the guy is full of FUMBLES!!! and has made it a habit at times. If college guys are poking around knowcking balls out what are trained pros who tackle and punch in one motion going to do. Don't get me wrong, the kid can be impressive but I see him fumbling and getting banged up.

http://scoreboards.aol.com/football/ncaaf/player/41649/player.aspx

4 fumbles. Hmm.

Ole Miss Texan
11-02-2007, 04:41 PM
I could sign off on that, but I would leave off the e on corpse. They aren't that bad. J/K.

hahahah touche my friend...touche

painekiller
11-02-2007, 04:51 PM
http://scoreboards.aol.com/football/ncaaf/player/41649/player.aspx

4 fumbles. Hmm.

In just this season.

There is a good article online about how Earl Campbell has become his mentor and Earl is working with Charles. And if he stays in school and solves the fumbling issue he could be a top 15 draft pick in 2009.

Currently I would take a 2nd day pick on the kid. Oh and one more thing, Tiki Barber was a fumbler also until he was coached a new way to carry the ball and it worked for him.

threetoedpete
11-02-2007, 09:22 PM
I wouldn't draft Charles at all. He hasn't been very good since his freshman season (who was the quarterback on that team?) and fumbles a lot. I don't think Aldridge is anything more than a 3rd down back. He may be fast, but he is too small.

Well all I know about him is that if he has effective blocking, he gets into the second level, he will give the Db's a run to the end zone. Ulatoski made about the best hook block I've ever seen on the left defense end in the Nebraska game and Charles poped off the right end along the sideline like a cork out of a champagne bottle. He has world class speed no doubt. But....you don't know if he's a good blocker and you don't know if he can be an effective reciever. And he's gotta be both to be on this roster with this coach.

barberman
11-03-2007, 07:23 PM
Baker, It`s time to fix this problem once and for all. I don`t think Spencer will come back at a LT, We need OL help to get this Offense moving consistantly. And in the 3rd round draft the best available Center.

rollinstone18
11-04-2007, 07:55 PM
If Dunta's injury is as bad as it sounds, I change my vote to none of the above. Instead I'd rather we select Malcolm Jenkins, assuming he declares.

Ole Miss Texan
11-04-2007, 09:28 PM
If Dunta's injury is as bad as it sounds, I change my vote to none of the above. Instead I'd rather we select Malcolm Jenkins, assuming he declares.

I concur. I change my vote now to Malcolm Jenkins- CB- Ohio St.

dangit this sucks.

badboy
11-05-2007, 12:36 PM
I could sign off on that, but I would leave off the e on corpse. They aren't that bad. J/K.Update,although beating the Raiders was significant, losing Dunte makes your original spelling more accurate than I had thought. Did you see into the future?

badboy
11-05-2007, 12:43 PM
hahahah touche my friend...toucheNo offense OMT but you need to be more selective with those words that have or could have an 'e' on the end. I'm not sure if you meant touche or inadvertantly added another 'e' as with corps(e). I am your friend, but don't go touch (e)ing me. WHAHAHAHA. I am so giddy with this win. :fans: