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View Full Version : Kubiak stays, coordinators GO


DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:01 PM
Kubiak doesn't need to go, but his coordinators definitely do. Richard Smith and Mike Sherman are awful. There is WAY too much talent on both sides of the ball to suck like this. It's unacceptable. Ahman Green was a HUGE mistake, as was Mario Williams. And I'm sure it was Smith and Sherman fighting to get those guys. Jacoby Jones, Demeco Ryans, Matt Schaub, Amobi Okoye - those guys were Kubiak's picks (along with Rick Smith). Those guys have been stellar.

Sherman's play calling is way too predictable. If Jones isn't lined up, it's a run. If he's on the field, it's a pass. With the talent the receivers have shown, WHY are we still trying to "establish the running game"? Convert this team to a pass-first offense like the Pats and Colts to move the linebackers off the line and open up holes for the running backs. WE DON'T HAVE THE TALENT THAT DENVER HAS HAD. WE CAN'T RUN THE BALL LIKE THEY DO!!!

Our defense is just pathetic. Five first-round picks on that team, and a sixth (Ryans) that is basically another (first pick in the second round). That's over HALF OF YOUR DEFENSE. This should be a top five defense that puts fear in opposing quarterbacks. Yet these awful blitz packages are ALWAYS picked up by the offense, usually for a huge gain. We blitz two guys and STILL have no pressure on the opposing QB. (Remember Kerry Collins to Roydell Williams for a loss after the greatest 4th quarter comeback in NFL history?)

I still think Kubiak is THE guy, but he and Smith need to ditch the "good ol' boys" and hire some young studs as their coordinators. What are Ray Childress, Mike Munchak, and Warren Moon up to these days?

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:04 PM
Most of this is on Kubiak...he hand picked his staff and he prepares the team. Childress is running a car dealership, Munchack is a well respected O-line coach for the Titans (a future head coach) and Moon is doing play by play.

Thorn
10-28-2007, 06:05 PM
It wouldn't break my heart any to see Richard Smith go. There is two much talent on the defense to be screwing up like this. Then again, a lack of decent defensive backs does limit what you can do.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:07 PM
Our defense is just pathetic. Five first-round picks on that team, and a sixth (Ryans) that is basically another (first pick in the second round). That's over HALF OF YOUR DEFENSE. This should be a top five defense that puts fear in opposing quarterbacks. Yet these awful blitz packages are ALWAYS picked up by the offense, usually for a huge gain. We blitz two guys and STILL have no pressure on the opposing QB. (Remember Kerry Collins to Roydell Williams for a loss after the greatest 4th quarter comeback in NFL history?)

I agree. The positioning and timing of our players when we blitz is elementary. David Carr could recognize some of the things we try to do defensively before the snap.

Leahmic223
10-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Wait wait...what?

WAY too much talent? Where?

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:11 PM
Most of this is on Kubiak...he hand picked his staff and he prepares the team. Childress is running a car dealership, Munchack is a well respected O-line coach for the Titans (a future head coach) and Moon is doing play by play.

By the time Kubiak picked a defensive coordinator, all the good candidates were off the table. Mike Sherman was a Casserly pick, and another bad one. Kubiak has too much respect for him because he was a former head coach to override him, which is another reason he needs to go. What exactly did he do for Green Bay again anyway? They were contenders before and after his tenure there, and mediocre during. Hmm...mediocrity on a Sherman-coached team? Sound familiar? FIRE HIM.

And give me a 46 defense with this personnel set. Can we get Buddy Ryan out of retirement?

Thorn
10-28-2007, 06:11 PM
Wait wait...what?

WAY too much talent? Where?


umm....potential talent? Yeah, I know, they aren't showing a lot right now.

awtysst
10-28-2007, 06:12 PM
You know I was thinking.

Anyone notice how the Bears have fallen off defensively this year? Is it coincidence that Ron RIvera, their LB coach is now in SD? I think Rivera would be a great D coordinator and I would love to bring him in.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:13 PM
You know I was thinking.

Anyone notice how the Bears have fallen off defensively this year? Is it coincidence that Ron RIvera, their LB coach is now in SD? I think Rivera would be a great D coordinator and I would love to bring him in.

How in the world do you propose we get this done???

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:13 PM
Mike Sherman was a Casserly pick, and another bad one. Kubiak has too much respect for him because he was a former head coach to override him, which is another reason he needs to go. What exactly did he do for Green Bay again anyway? They were contenders before and after his tenure there, and mediocre during. Hmm...mediocrity on a Sherman-coached team? Sound familiar? FIRE HIM.

I don't think that is the case, but if it was, then Kubiak isn't the guy I'd want running this team. You have to have a VERY strong personality to run a team full of very strong personalities. Someone has to tell them how the cow ate the cabbage and it needs to be Kubiak.

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:14 PM
You know I was thinking.

Anyone notice how the Bears have fallen off defensively this year? Is it coincidence that Ron RIvera, their LB coach is now in SD? I think Rivera would be a great D coordinator and I would love to bring him in.
Rivera was the Bears defensive coordinator.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:14 PM
I don't think that is the case, but if it was, then Kubiak isn't the guy I'd want running this team. You have to have a VERY strong personality to run a team full of very strong personalities. Someone has to tell them how the cow ate the cabbage and it needs to be Kubiak.

Kubiak should be mad during this press conference. I realize that coaches need to keep their cool, but he needs to show the team that the performance they have shown in the last 3 weeks is not going to be tolerated.

NitroGSXR
10-28-2007, 06:15 PM
And give me a 46 defense with this personnel set. Can we get Buddy Ryan out of retirement?
At least we know that Buddy would have the balls to punch Sherman for his screwups. Maybe even Kubiak.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:15 PM
You know I was thinking.

Anyone notice how the Bears have fallen off defensively this year? Is it coincidence that Ron RIvera, their LB coach is now in SD? I think Rivera would be a great D coordinator and I would love to bring him in.

Rivera would be a great pickup. Or Singletary and/or Buddy Ryan to run the 46 I mentioned earlier.

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:17 PM
Rivera would be a great pickup. Or Singletary and/or Buddy Ryan to run the 46 I mentioned earlier.
Even guys who know and run that defense don't use 46 fronts much. You have to have elite talent or it's just too unsound. Williams in Washington is using more cover2 shell now and his defense has improved this year.

NitroGSXR
10-28-2007, 06:19 PM
Even guys who know and run that defense don't use 46 fronts much. You have to have elite talent or it's just too unsound. Williams in Washington is using more cover2 shell now and his defense has improved this year.
How did that work out for him today?

Runner
10-28-2007, 06:19 PM
Mike Sherman was a Casserly pick, and another bad one.

a) Absolutely not. Sherman was Kubiak's guy.

b) After Moulds, Flanagan, Salaam, Bedell, Black, Gado, Dayne, Weaver, and yes Mario, it is about time to lose the "it was Casserly's pick" excuse.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:20 PM
Even guys who know and run that defense don't use 46 fronts much. You have to have elite talent or it's just too unsound. Williams in Washington is using more cover2 shell now and his defense has improved this year.

You don't need all-around elite talent. Speedy, intelligent middle linebacker? Check. Front four with pass rush ability? Check (although unsuccessful in these schemes). Secondary with speed to be able to blitz? Check. Two solid cover corners? Oh, wait...maybe we do have a problem.

awtysst
10-28-2007, 06:20 PM
Rivera was the Bears defensive coordinator.

You are correct. Think he would like to be a Def coordinator in Htown?

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:23 PM
How did that work out for him today?
Name one team that has stopped the Pats this year and you win the prize.

Show me one team in the NFL that uses 46 fronts for their base defense....you won't be able to because nobody uses these fronts except in a package or two here and there.

awtysst
10-28-2007, 06:23 PM
How in the world do you propose we get this done???

We contact him and ask him to interview with us. Then we decide if he is the best person for the job or if someone else (like a Mike Singletary) would be a better fit for us, Then we offer them a contract, and get them down here working on our off season/draft/scheming strategy.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:24 PM
b) After Moulds, Flanagan, Salaam, Bedell, Black, Gado, Dayne, Weaver, and yes Mario, it is about time to lose the "it was Casserly's pick" excuse.

Could not agree more. I'm tired of hearing that.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:26 PM
We contact him and ask him to interview with us. Then we decide if he is the best person for the job or if someone else (like a Mike Singletary) would be a better fit for us, Then we offer them a contract, and get them down here working on our off season/draft/scheming strategy.

I meant more on the terms of how are we going to lure him from San Diego. San Diego has maybe one of the most talented defenses in the league. Why would he want to leave San Diego and put his money on Hutchins and Petey to play man coverage in his blitz schemes.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:27 PM
Show me one team in the NFL that uses 46 fronts for their base defense....you won't be able to because nobody uses these fronts except in a package or two here and there.

Show me three teams that used 46 fronts when Buddy Ryan was coaching and I'll show you three teams with Top 5 defenses. Just because they don't use them much now doesn't mean they wouldn't be successful. The cover 2 is a cop-out.

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:29 PM
Show me three teams that used 46 fronts when Buddy Ryan was coaching and I'll show you three teams with Top 5 defenses.The run and shoot worked in the 80's too. I still maintain you have to have elite talent to run a 46 defense as your base defense because putting your corners on islands is the exact opposite of what most good defenses are doing in todays game to combat todays more sophisticated offensive schemes.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:34 PM
a) Absolutely not. Sherman was Kubiak's guy.

I stand corrected. I believe you're right about that, if the national papers were accurate.

b) After Moulds, Flanagan, Salaam, Bedell, Black, Gado, Dayne, Weaver, and yes Mario, it is about time to lose the "it was Casserly's pick" excuse.

Who else was actually AVAILABLE at the time those guys were brought in that were better? Moulds and Mario were still during Casserly's tenure, Flanagan and Gado were Sherman's choices (and Flanagan was beat out for his starting job this year - Kubiak's call), and Salaam and Black were supposed to be backups to Charles "Nasty" Spencer. Weaver has been so-so and a decent bargain for what he's paid, and Dayne was always supposed to be a 2nd- or 3rd-stringer. I'm not making excuses for Kubiak; I'm just saying his own personal talent picks have been more hit than miss.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:36 PM
The run and shoot worked in the 80's too.

New England and Indy often run schemes very similar to the run and shoot. The
problem with it in the 80's was no packages to run time off the clock, especially against - oh yeah - 46 defenses.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:38 PM
Weaver has been so-so and a decent bargain for what he's paid

But how does Weaver fit in with the defense we are building? Mario, from what I can tell, isn't going to get to the QB as often as we would like. We need another pass rusher at DE. Weaver is bad in that respect.

Dread-Head
10-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Most of this is on Kubiak...he hand picked his staff and he prepares the team. Childress is running a car dealership, Munchack is a well respected O-line coach for the Titans (a future head coach) and Moon is doing play by play.

I think Munchak is happy where he is. Moon even said when he was playing that he wanted to go into broadcasting. I don't think he wants to coach.

Napa Auto Parts
10-28-2007, 06:41 PM
We should Trade for David Carr

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:41 PM
But how does Weaver fit in with the defense we are building? Mario, from what I can tell, isn't going to get to the QB as often as we would like. We need another pass rusher at DE. Weaver is bad in that respect.
Weaver is a 3-4 End...totally miscast and his name is never called....he's more invisible than Greenwood usually is.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:42 PM
Weaver is a 3-4 End...totally miscast and his name is never called....he's more invisible than Greenwood usually is.

He is not even a bad player in my mind. He is just in a horrible situation. I don't see what our team is trying to get out of him.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:47 PM
I have an open mind...I'm just a bit of an NFL historian and follow schemes and coaching concepts. I'm just speaking my mind...you do the same, but that doesn't mean I won't challenge something you post. I'll expect the same.

Agreed - but still, seriously, how would you fix this clunker. I'm out of ideas, and apparently so is the team.

Runner
10-28-2007, 06:48 PM
Who else was actually AVAILABLE at the time those guys were brought in that were better? Moulds and Mario were still during Casserly's tenure, Flanagan and Gado were Sherman's choices (and Flanagan was beat out for his starting job this year - Kubiak's call), and Salaam and Black were supposed to be backups to Charles "Nasty" Spencer. Weaver has been so-so and a decent bargain for what he's paid, and Dayne was always supposed to be a 2nd- or 3rd-stringer. I'm not making excuses for Kubiak; I'm just saying his own personal talent picks have been more hit than miss.

Moulds and Mario are on Kubiak. He was in control while Casserly was done making decisions at that point. I can't remember for sure, but I think he cut Gaffney. He should have kept Jabbar vs giving Moulds a $5M bonus for one year and cut.

Sherman works for Kubiak.

Salaam was supposed to be a back-up and will start for two years before all is done - Kubiak's call. He should have kept Wand as back-up left tackle, and he really should have brought him in the minute Spencer went down. It was a poor decision that he brought back Bedell instead of Wand when Spencer got hurt. This would have eliminated the need for Black too. All on Kubiak.

Spencer being "Nasty" doesn't change the fact he's played 1.5 games. Kubiak should have done more to replace him.

There is no excuse for Ron Dayne - he has had one or two good games a year for most of his career. Bad depth choice when you have an older starter. On Kubiak.

Yes Kubiak has made some good moves. If he gets credit for his hits, he gets credit for his misses.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 06:53 PM
I think Munchak is happy where he is. Moon even said when he was playing that he wanted to go into broadcasting. I don't think he wants to coach.

Munchak would make the move back to Houston for a promotion, guaranteed. It's why you coach.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 06:54 PM
Salaam was supposed to be a back-up and will start for two years before all is done - Kubiak's call. He should have kept Wand as back-up left tackle, and he really should have brought him in the minute Spencer went down. It was a poor decision that he brought back Bedell instead of Wand when Spencer got hurt. This would have eliminated the need for Black too. All on Kubiak.

It has become painfully apparent to me that Black was not brought in to play. He was paid alot to come in here and be an insurance policy to Salaam. How come these guys aren't in a battle? Salaam has not played well and I just don't understand why Black isn't given much of a chance considering Kubiak always talks about adding depth for competition.

Vinny
10-28-2007, 06:55 PM
Agreed - but still, seriously, how would you fix this clunker. I'm out of ideas, and apparently so is the team.I know you are just throwing ideas out there....your ideas are as good as mine at this point.

overcoming years of bad personnel decisions is tough. Good players can overcome mediocre coaching at times (teams will be inconsistent). I'm fairly sure that great coaching can't make mediocre talent and turn it into winning playoff teams. Combine years of bad drafting, bad FA acquisitions and then toss in what looks like a poorly coached team...and you have a synergistic mess we call the Texans. If you look at other franchises who have made numerous personnel mistakes in short periods of time it seems like it takes years and years to get over the hump all the while they turn over coach after coach.

TEXANRED
10-28-2007, 06:56 PM
Most of this is on Kubiak...he hand picked his staff and he prepares the team. Childress is running a car dealership, Munchack is a well respected O-line coach for the Titans (a future head coach) and Moon is doing play by play.

Well if Munchack is going to be a Head Coach it might as well be in Houston.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 07:00 PM
Moulds and Mario are on Kubiak. He was in control while Casserly was done making decisions at that point. I can't remember for sure, but I think he cut Gaffney. He should have kept Jabbar vs giving Moulds a $5M bonus for one year and cut.

Williams was McNair's call. It's been widely reported that Kubiak wanted Reggie Bush, but after the issues with his parents' house, Casserly convinced McNair that Bush would be bad news for the team. Gaffney's contract expired, and he bolted for Philly (where he was cut after training camp) with some nasty words about the team.

Sherman works for Kubiak.Kubiak is fresh in this league and my personal thought is that the NFL is still a good ol' boys league and he doesn't want to ruffle any feathers by second-guessing someone who's been in the league a lot longer. That will have to change or he'll be flushed out QUICK.

Salaam was supposed to be a back-up and will start for two years before all is done - Kubiak's call. He should have kept Wand as back-up left tackle, and he really should have brought him in the minute Spencer went down. It was a poor decision that he brought back Bedell instead of Wand when Spencer got hurt. This would have eliminated the need for Black too. All on Kubiak.

Spencer being "Nasty" doesn't change the fact he's played 1.5 games. Kubiak should have done more to replace him.

There is no excuse for Ron Dayne - he has had one or two good games a year for most of his career. Bad depth choice when you have an older starter. On Kubiak.

All agreed here.

DerekLee1
10-28-2007, 07:02 PM
I know you are just throwing ideas out there....your ideas are as good as mine at this point.

overcoming years of bad personnel decisions is tough. Good players can overcome mediocre coaching at times (teams will be inconsistent). I'm fairly sure that great coaching can't make mediocre talent and turn it into winning playoff teams. Combine years of bad drafting, bad FA acquisitions and then toss in what looks like a poorly coached team...and you have a synergistic mess we call the Texans. If you look at other franchises who have made numerous personnel mistakes in short periods of time it seems like it takes years and years to get over the hump all the while they turn over coach after coach.

I hope that's not the case with Kubes. I really believe he's going to be a stellar coach, but he needs guys around him (coaches and players) to help him fix this mess first.

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 07:05 PM
If you look at other franchises who have made numerous personnel mistakes in short periods of time it seems like it takes years and years to get over the hump all the while they turn over coach after coach.

It just makes you think. How long will a turnaround take for us? How many years before we can call ourselves a legitimate playoff team? I fear that it may be many years before we may do that.

TEXANRED
10-28-2007, 07:08 PM
You know who else was Casserly's pick?

Kubiak.

Kubiak and Smith are friends, do you think Smith has the stones to fire Kubiak?

TexansSeminole
10-28-2007, 07:08 PM
Kubiak is fresh in this league and my personal thought is that the NFL is still a good ol' boys league and he doesn't want to ruffle any feathers by second-guessing someone who's been in the league a lot longer. That will have to change or he'll be flushed out QUICK.

I don't think Kubiak is so much fresh in the league as he is fresh in his position. I think he needs Sherman for guidance, but that guidance isn't getting him very far.

The1ApplePie
10-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Rivera is not interested in being a coordinator. He's in San Diego to learn the 3-4 better, so he can be a head coach.

If this season keeps going south, Kubes either goes to A&M or gets the boot.

I'm sure McNair is loving watching Reggie Bush jersies flying off the shelfs or entire reigons of Texas demanding to have Titans' games instead of Texans games so they can see VY.

TEXANRED
10-28-2007, 07:14 PM
I don't think Kubiak is so much fresh in the league as he is fresh in his position. I think he needs Sherman for guidance, but that guidance isn't getting him very far.

Sherman was only good b/c he was still using the talent from Holmgren/Wolf.

He was not a good HC.

nunusguy
10-28-2007, 07:24 PM
Williams was McNair's call. It's been widely reported that Kubiak wanted Reggie Bush, but after the issues with his parents' house, Casserly convinced McNair that Bush would be bad news for the team.
Based upon what I've heard and read, I buy that theory. But if Bush was effectively removed from the Board, that certainly doesn't mean that Marios name was the only one that remained for Kubiak to choose from.

Carr Bombed
10-28-2007, 08:19 PM
New England and Indy often run schemes very similar to the run and shoot. The
problem with it in the 80's was no packages to run time off the clock, especially against - oh yeah - 46 defenses.

You know what the funniest thing listening to you pimp the 4-6 defense is? Is that the fact that your trying to say that's what Houston needs to run shows that you don't know crap about the 4-6 defense.

If we were to run the 4-6 with the DB talent we have now, instead of having a top 5 defense, we would instantly have the most putrid defense in atleast the last 5 years on NFL football.

You have to have guys who can shutdown both sides of the field vertically and great athletes that can run sideline to sideline and cover every other hole the defense leaves open, because it leaves ALOT of holes that must be filled in the passing game. It takes a hellava lot more than "one badass MLB" and if you think that's all the Bears defense was, it just further shows that you don't know what your talking about....from sideline to sideline that 85 bears team had one of the most dominant LBing cores to ever step onto a NFL field, they used to compete against eachother who could terrorize the QB the most

The Ravens tried to run the 4-6 a few years back and the reason why Rex Ryan felt he could get away with it was, because he had Chris McCallister on one side, Samari Rolle on the other, Deon Sanders as his nickle back, and the best S in the league at the time in Ed Reed who was coming off a "defensive player of the year" award.

Their LB core consisted of Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Terral Suggs, and the most mult-talented defensive player in the game, Adalius Thomas.

I didn't even get into some of the reasons why this defense has gone extinct in the NFL is, because the cap makes it nearly impossible to collect that much talent on the defensive side of the ball, or the fact that today's offenses are MUCH more complex and efficient then they were back in the day, or how today's rules enforcement are geared against that typed of defense (they enforce the "no chuck" now), or how today's TE position has a much more prolific role in offenses, and they are much more athletic then they were back in the day too.........today's TE is just as big as a "skilled" position as #1 WOs and runningbacks, but don't let any of that stop you so.....

Could you please explain, with all your knowledge on the 46 defense how the heck you feel that defense would fit and work here.