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badboy
10-26-2007, 10:22 AM
Do we have anyone on team that we could do without that would bring us a second round pick in a trade? We do not seem very deep at many positions, but it is an idea (although probably not a good one.)

PapaL
10-26-2007, 11:55 AM
Schaub, AJ, OD, DeMeco and Drob.

Good thing they're not going anywhere.

bah007
10-26-2007, 01:02 PM
maybe sage? i don't know if he could reel in a 2nd, and i doubt the texans want to trade a good backup qb...pitts or weary might bring a nice pick. maybe walter or davis? i dunno, it doesn't seem like we have a whole lot to offer up outside of our starpower.

i'm not so opposed to trading down in the first though. that's the 'easy' way to get a 2nd. to be honest, we really need it to keep moving forward and i believe rick smith is going to do everything he can to get it.

Out of the guys you mentioned I bet only Davis could even get us a 3.

The only guys that could get us a 2 or better are our stars & that isnt gonna happen.

We have stars & role players but we just dont have those intermediate guys yet.

Ole Miss Texan
10-26-2007, 01:05 PM
Well, Oakland traded Randy Moss to New England for a Fourth Round Pick.

badboy
10-26-2007, 01:57 PM
Out of the guys you mentioned I bet only Davis could even get us a 3.

The only guys that could get us a 2 or better are our stars & that isnt gonna happen.

We have stars & role players but we just dont have those intermediate guys yet.You touched on something I've been mulling over.. JJ, Walters and AJ are your first three and Anderson plays well enough to be the fourth. Davis continues his good start and we sign him to a good but reasonable three year deal before this season ends. Could Davis get you a 2nd or a high 3rd? I really do not want to touch our WR but that may be a depth we can explore to strengthen the team with another first day pick. Or could be used to trade up for a special player.

bah007
10-26-2007, 02:00 PM
Well, Oakland traded Randy Moss to New England for a Fourth Round Pick.

Thats just because Oakland couldnt wait to get rid of him.

He was a team cancer & he was "supposed to be" washed up.

Poor Raiders.

Errant Hothy
10-26-2007, 02:49 PM
I think Davis gets you a fourth at best. And as a side note didn't Davis sign just a one year deal?

badboy
10-26-2007, 02:52 PM
I think Davis gets you a fourth at best. And as a side note didn't Davis sign just a one year deal?Yes , but I said sign him this season say week 14 to a three year deal. That would help a trade. I think a WR avg 18-22 yds with 50 catches would be worth a second.

threetoedpete
10-26-2007, 03:03 PM
Yes , but I said sign him this season say week 14 to a three year deal. That would help a trade. I think a WR avg 18-22 yds with 50 catches would be worth a second.

You gotta remeber it's all supply and demand. I see a kid like the Indiana kid and Blythe for Iowa SU, I see a herd of WRs out there. These two couldn't catch a sniff at an all america team. So the question begs to be asked why give up a fourth round pick when you can hold your water and bring in a clean chalk board and coach him up the way you want him coached up. Davis has a history of injuries also. He's ok in a rotation but thinking he can go out and put up fifty to sixty snaps a game...banging on the running plays, is a bit of a reach. He is what he is, a number four or five guy. I think he is exactly like Peerless Price. With better hands. I think we just need to hang on to our second teired WR guys. QB, FB and WR our three things we shouldn't have to adress this off season.

You might have a chance to get a high day two for Weaver with a three four team like Baltimore. But then you gotta find another DE.

badboy
10-26-2007, 03:08 PM
You gotta remeber it's all supply and demand. I see a kid like the Indiana kid and Blythe for Iowa SU, I see a herd of WRs out there. These two couldn't catch a sniff at an all america team. So the question begs to be asked why give up a fourth round pick when you can hold your water and bring in a clean chalk board and coach him up the way you want him coached up. Davis has a history of injuries also. He's ok in a rotation but thinking he can go out and put up fifty to sixty snaps a game...banging on the running plays, is a bit of a reach. He is what he is, a number four or five guy. I think he is exactly like Peerless Price. With better hands. I think we just need to hang on to our second teired WR guys. QB, FB and WR our three things we shouldn't have to adress this off season.

You might have a chance to get a high day two for Weaver with a three four team like Baltimore. But then you gotta find another DE.

Ok but Davis may get 50 this season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/DaviAn01.htm#2007

Would you wait for a 4th round WR who might not make team? If there is a WR you like at 2nd round cool but you have an 800+ yds guy for a second who is pretty exciting.

Errant Hothy
10-26-2007, 03:19 PM
Ok but Davis may get 50 this season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/DaviAn01.htm#2007

Would you wait for a 4th round WR who might not make team? If there is a WR you like at 2nd round cool but you have an 800+ yds guy for a second who is pretty exciting.

Don't forget that at the start of the season there were 2 4th round WRs who bet Davis out for playing time on our own roster. And it's not like we're known for havinf crazy Patroits like depth.

digitalswim
10-26-2007, 03:31 PM
I want a 2nd rounder as much as the next guy but at the end of the day trading away players is not going to help us. When I say that, I mean players that have any kind of actual trade value.

You know what is going to make our team stronger? Patience. We are not going to get even close to what we need out of the draft / FA next offseason. What we will get is a little bit closer to our goals.

It may suck a bit at times but the power house teams of the league didn't get that way overnight. They built quality and depth through the draft and by retaining their players.

Scooter
10-26-2007, 03:43 PM
I want a 2nd rounder as much as the next guy but at the end of the day trading away players is not going to help us. When I say that, I mean players that have any kind of actual trade value.

You know what is going to make our team stronger? Patience. We are not going to get even close to what we need out of the draft / FA next offseason. What we will get is a little bit closer to our goals.

It may suck a bit at times but the power house teams of the league didn't get that way overnight. They built quality and depth through the draft and by retaining their players.

this is a perfect post. everybody wants more draft picks, but if you look at shanahan & kubiak's track record, they usually trade draft picks for players ... not vice versa.

badboy
10-26-2007, 03:44 PM
Don't forget that at the start of the season there were 2 4th round WRs who bet Davis out for playing time on our own roster. And it's not like we're known for havinf crazy Patroits like depth.Not to be arguementative but how are those two 4ths doing now?

TexansLucky13
10-26-2007, 03:46 PM
I thought the trade deadline passed.....?

badboy
10-26-2007, 03:46 PM
I want a 2nd rounder as much as the next guy but at the end of the day trading away players is not going to help us. When I say that, I mean players that have any kind of actual trade value.

You know what is going to make our team stronger? Patience. We are not going to get even close to what we need out of the draft / FA next offseason. What we will get is a little bit closer to our goals.

It may suck a bit at times but the power house teams of the league didn't get that way overnight. They built quality and depth through the draft and by retaining their players.I do not expect a power house team next year. I do expect a team that compete with the Falcons and Miami's. The future is great but you had better keep me interested now or I could go somewhere else. Are you listening Astros?

badboy
10-26-2007, 03:49 PM
I thought the trade deadline passed.....?The thought was using Andre Davis as an example. Sign him to a three year deal this season in say week 14 and then you trade him before draft for a 2nd.

Errant Hothy
10-26-2007, 03:53 PM
Not to be arguementative but how are those two 4ths doing now?

Being hurt is a lot different from being sucky. Injuries happen and when Mathis and Jones beat Davis out for playing time all three were healthy.

C'mon you're better then that. :devilpig:

Errant Hothy
10-26-2007, 03:54 PM
The thought was using Andre Davis as an example. Sign him to a three year deal this season in say week 14 and then you trade him before draft for a 2nd.

Yeah, cause we have the cap room to sign anybody right now, and when we do have the room Davis will be a FA.

Of the players we have on our roster that might get us a 2nd round pick, we cannot affrod to lose any of them.

Insideop
10-27-2007, 10:19 PM
I want a 2nd rounder as much as the next guy but at the end of the day trading away players is not going to help us. When I say that, I mean players that have any kind of actual trade value.

You know what is going to make our team stronger? Patience. We are not going to get even close to what we need out of the draft / FA next offseason. What we will get is a little bit closer to our goals.

It may suck a bit at times but the power house teams of the league didn't get that way overnight. They built quality and depth through the draft and by retaining their players.

Best post on this thread! Thanks digitalswim! I like you're line of thinking. Building the team slowly through the Draft is the best way to go IMO. I realize they have had to use FA as a stop-gap to help improve the team in the short term, but I believe the Draft is what they will use to build a solid foundation for the long haul. I think the Schaub trade was an exception to what they would like to do with the Draft, but they saw an opportunity and felt they had to make a move before the window closed. It hurt losing those two 2nd rounders, but weighing all the factors, it was a good deal for us. I don't think you'll see them make those kinds of moves too often.

I really believe Smith and Kubes plan is to build through the Draft, get FA's to fill the short term gaps, and for the most part, keep their Draft picks (and maybe get extra picks by trading down). JMHO!

badboy
10-30-2007, 03:15 PM
Being hurt is a lot different from being sucky. Injuries happen and when Mathis and Jones beat Davis out for playing time all three were healthy.

C'mon you're better then that. :devilpig:Jones was a 3rd round pick and considered a reach from small college. I don't think Andre got same shot as Jones as coaches want that pick to be worth it. Especially not having a 2nd round pick. Look, I am just saying people want to build with the draft. WR seems to be our only strong area. If we could get a 2 or 3 for Davis, I say do it. AJ, Walter, Jones and Anderson look pretty good to me. If Davis has a decent year and everything points to that happening, he will want a nice contract as afree agent and we could lose him anyway. ALthough I do not see much on the market for our 30 million.

If we end up with a top 6,7, or 8 Dallas may part with two 1st to trade up for McFadden:

We could have two 1st, a 2nd or two 3rds and a 4th to get better with.

Bubbajwp
10-30-2007, 05:49 PM
If we end up with a pick between 5 and 10 Darren McFadden will be long gone.

There is no chance of Andre Davis getting us a second round pick. We would be lucky to get a fourth or fifth round pick for him If Andre Davis had the value to bring us a second round pick his signing bonus would cost us to much. WR's dont typically have much trade value.

infantrycak
10-30-2007, 06:02 PM
If Andre Davis had the value to bring us a second round pick his signing bonus would cost us to much.

I'm with you that Davis won't get a 2nd but what is this about signing bonus?

Bubbajwp
10-30-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm with you that Davis won't get a 2nd but what is this about signing bonus?
Oh sorry, they were talking about signing him for three years and trading him. So we would still have to pay his signing bonus.

infantrycak
10-30-2007, 06:08 PM
Oh sorry, they were talking about signing him for three years and trading him. So we would still have to pay his signing bonus.

OK--wasn't sure if you were talking about him or the draft pick. Either way, the signing bonus, around $1-2 mil wouldn't be the sticking point, the odds on anyone giving a 2nd would be.

ArlingtonTexan
10-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Guys like Randy Moss and Darrell Jackson only fetch a 4th rounder and we are talking about Andre Davis and a 2nd. :gun:

badboy
10-31-2007, 12:50 PM
Guys like Randy Moss and Darrell Jackson only fetch a 4th rounder and we are talking about Andre Davis and a 2nd. :gun:Davis is one year younger than Jackson and almost 3 younger than Moss. I am not interested in life time stats, but Davis is doing good this season. Ok, no 2nd round but would you take a fourth if available? Remember most say it is better to build through the draft. Or do we hang on to him if he keeps up this season's pace? Also, the thread was to identify any players we could afford to lose and get something helpful in return.

bah007
10-31-2007, 01:37 PM
Davis is one year younger than Jackson and almost 3 younger than Moss. I am not interested in life time stats, but Davis is doing good this season. Ok, no 2nd round but would you take a fourth if available? Remember most say it is better to build through the draft. Or do we hang on to him if he keeps up this season's pace? Also, the thread was to identify any players we could afford to lose and get something helpful in return.

Chances are that you wont be able to replace Davis' production with a 4th round player.

ArlingtonTexan
10-31-2007, 06:23 PM
Davis is one year younger than Jackson and almost 3 younger than Moss. I am not interested in life time stats, but Davis is doing good this season. Ok, no 2nd round but would you take a fourth if available? Remember most say it is better to build through the draft. Or do we hang on to him if he keeps up this season's pace? Also, the thread was to identify any players we could afford to lose and get something helpful in return.

Why do you want to ignore his entire career? Any team looking at trading for him will look at his entire body of work...not just the handful of decent starts that he made this year. Anyway, unless I am mistaken Davis is an unrestricted FA after the year is over. The Texans have limited say in his future. Signing players to a contract and then trading that player is not a normal or wise (salary cap, even if a relatively small amount). My point is not that I would not take a 4th rounder for Davis, but that no NFL team would trading a 4th rounder for a guy who has had a mediocore career overall and two or three decent games this year. Davis is closer to not playing in the league in 2008 than the texans getting any sort of compensation (under any circumstances).

badboy
11-01-2007, 01:11 PM
New position. In 2008, we will have @ SS Glenn Earl, Jason Simmons, Brandon Harrison, Brandon Mitchell, Will Demps, Boulaware, CC Brown. Any of those worth a trade for a reasonable pick? Again, I am looking at subtracting from our strengths ( I almost laughed) to add to a weakness.

Ole Miss Texan
11-01-2007, 02:12 PM
New position. In 2008, we will have @ SS Glenn Earl, Jason Simmons, Brandon Harrison, Brandon Mitchell, Will Demps, Boulaware, CC Brown. Any of those worth a trade for a reasonable pick? Again, I am looking at subtracting from our strengths ( I almost laughed) to add to a weakness.

Well we may be able to trade for another player...but I doubt a draft pick. I don't think any teams are dying for a SS enough to give up a draft pick. Could go down like a Babin/Boulware type thing though.

Bubbajwp
11-01-2007, 07:36 PM
New position. In 2008, we will have @ SS Glenn Earl, Jason Simmons, Brandon Harrison, Brandon Mitchell, Will Demps, Boulaware, CC Brown. Any of those worth a trade for a reasonable pick? Again, I am looking at subtracting from our strengths ( I almost laughed) to add to a weakness.

I think any second or third round pick will outperform all of these guys. So no.

Napa Auto Parts
11-01-2007, 10:32 PM
i would love to trade for a 2nd we should cut our ties with Mario Williams hopefully we can still get a second for him but in my humble opinion i think the best we would get is a 4th rounder for him.:fans:

TexansSeminole
11-01-2007, 11:17 PM
Look, I am just saying people want to build with the draft. WR seems to be our only strong area. If we could get a 2 or 3 for Davis, I say do it. AJ, Walter, Jones and Anderson look pretty good to me. If Davis has a decent year and everything points to that happening, he will want a nice contract as afree agent and we could lose him anyway. ALthough I do not see much on the market for our 30 million.

The way I see it there is no reason to start taking away from our strengths to upgrade other positions. I think people like to build their teams with young players and the draft is the best way to do it. We upgraded the WR position in last year's and the year before's draft and FA. Andre Davis, Kevin Walter, David Anderson and Jacoby Jones can help out team in the future, IMO we need to keep our young WRs. We have a young and inexperienced (at this point) QB that is supposed to be the future of the position. Why don't we keep the WRs he has been working with, they seem to have a pretty good chemistry going right now. If we want to help our QB out, having WRs that know our system and QB can be one of the ways to do that. Trading a WR away for a offensive lineman prospect (or whatever you want to do with that draft pick) may not be what is best for the team.

We will have alot of money to use this offseason. There will be guys for us to grab.

LBs that could be out there: Karlos Dansby, Demarrio Williams, and Teddy Lehman

Olineman: A couple of Pittsburg guys: Alan Faneca maybe (I don't think we will get him though. Someone else on the board was saying he could ho with Cowher if Cowher gets hired somewhere. I thought that was probably pretty accurate.) Max Starks. The Colts have a bunch of guards in contract years. They are likely to let one go in order to pay the other two extra $. Ruben Brown from the Bears looks to be in a contract year. We could upgrade Weary most likely and bring in some competition for Studdard. Sean Locklear could be there but I bet the Seahawks resign him.

Asante Samuel will be out there again.

Likely RBs we could add depth with that I see: Mewelde Moore, LeBrandon Loefield, maybe Michael Turner if we were willing to dish some real money out there for him. That is the real question, will we really put the money out there for some of these guys.

Please share any information and/or speculation about if these guys around the league in contract years will be available.

New position. In 2008, we will have @ SS Glenn Earl, Jason Simmons, Brandon Harrison, Brandon Mitchell, Will Demps, Boulaware, CC Brown. Any of those worth a trade for a reasonable pick? Again, I am looking at subtracting from our strengths ( I almost laughed) to add to a weakness.

Again we aren't going to get anything for any of these guys. We should keep them all and have a serious battle for that SS spot because that is the position that all of those players play. I think Jason Simmons and Will Demps could play FS below average and CC can play it well below average. Let them all battle it out.


We aren't going to get a second or any draft pick that will help us threw a trade. If we want a second or another third or fourth we are going to have to trade back from the first round and I think that the chances of that are low and it may not even be a good idea.

Look we have alot of money to use in free agency. The people I have listed above are just a few of the people that may be available during the offseason. We need playmakers on this team and high picks are going to help us get that. If we trade back we are risking not getting a player that could really change this football team.

It looks like we are going to be drafting in that 10-15 range again. We need to fill one of these major holes with that pick. I think you could argue CB/FS/OT/OC/RB are our major holes.

badboy
11-02-2007, 08:35 AM
The way I see it there is no reason to start taking away from our strengths to upgrade other positions. I think people like to build their teams with young players and the draft is the best way to do it. We upgraded the WR position in last year's and the year before's draft and FA. Andre Davis, Kevin Walter, David Anderson and Jacoby Jones can help out team in the future, IMO we need to keep our young WRs. We have a young and inexperienced (at this point) QB that is supposed to be the future of the position. Why don't we keep the WRs he has been working with, they seem to have a pretty good chemistry going right now. If we want to help our QB out, having WRs that know our system and QB can be one of the ways to do that. Trading a WR away for a offensive lineman prospect (or whatever you want to do with that draft pick) may not be what is best for the team.

We will have alot of money to use this offseason. There will be guys for us to grab.

LBs that could be out there: Karlos Dansby, Demarrio Williams, and Teddy Lehman

Olineman: A couple of Pittsburg guys: Alan Faneca maybe (I don't think we will get him though. Someone else on the board was saying he could ho with Cowher if Cowher gets hired somewhere. I thought that was probably pretty accurate.) Max Starks. The Colts have a bunch of guards in contract years. They are likely to let one go in order to pay the other two extra $. Ruben Brown from the Bears looks to be in a contract year. We could upgrade Weary most likely and bring in some competition for Studdard. Sean Locklear could be there but I bet the Seahawks resign him.

Asante Samuel will be out there again.

Likely RBs we could add depth with that I see: Mewelde Moore, LeBrandon Loefield, maybe Michael Turner if we were willing to dish some real money out there for him. That is the real question, will we really put the money out there for some of these guys.

Please share any information and/or speculation about if these guys around the league in contract years will be available.



Again we aren't going to get anything for any of these guys. We should keep them all and have a serious battle for that SS spot because that is the position that all of those players play. I think Jason Simmons and Will Demps could play FS below average and CC can play it well below average. Let them all battle it out.


We aren't going to get a second or any draft pick that will help us threw a trade. If we want a second or another third or fourth we are going to have to trade back from the first round and I think that the chances of that are low and it may not even be a good idea.

Look we have alot of money to use in free agency. The people I have listed above are just a few of the people that may be available during the offseason. We need playmakers on this team and high picks are going to help us get that. If we trade back we are risking not getting a player that could really change this football team.

It looks like we are going to be drafting in that 10-15 range again. We need to fill one of these major holes with that pick. I think you could argue CB/FS/OT/OC/RB are our major holes.

Good info but about two weeks ago I researched most of the free agents you mentioned. There is quite a bit of uncertainty if some will even be on the market. While Texans have estimated $30m, I do not want to throw money at "good" players. For a very good or excellent player, I would over pay if needed. A Samuel for example. If Bennett earns starter by end of season should we go after Asante? This 26 year old has 4 ints and even his coach said teams seem to be throwing away from him. He and Dunte could tighten down the D. Would that ease the need for a FS? Some say Samuel can only play cover 2. I doubt that.

As for RB, if McFadden or Jonathan Stewert (I'm not as sold on him as some) is not available, I would consider a trade. I'm concerned that 10-15 may be very optimistic. AJ will be back but Davis has done well yards per catch wise & I do not see AJ scoring a lot of TDs. I hope I'm wrong. As for drafting an RB Green was signed with a $6-7 million guarantee. A very significant contract for a Texan RB. I doubt an RB will be taken in draft until very late, if at all. I do think we will bring in one or two "has been" types like Dayne that they hope to catch lightning in a bottle for a year maybe two. Same with a "filler" tackle; both of these in FA. I still think Bennett should be considered at some point for FS, if the mind set is to go after Samuel in off season. That would definitely give our D a stronger look, with Faggins back at nickle. We could then use a pick for an OLB. I hate to mess with what isn't broke but some have entertained the thought of moving Demeco to OLB and Diles to MLB. I have mixed feelings on that, too. Our OLB while "solid" by Kube's opinion, can't cover most receivers and either can't or is not allowed to go after QB.

I disagree with you on that I would take away from our strength to improve a weak area in SOME cases. We have an abundance of SS and if we can move one to shore up a hole on either side of ball, do it. Draft versus FA, I have a different view than most. I like a good combination. Both are a crap shoot but with FA you have some history of NFL play to look at. You can't compare a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd draft selection to an old guy pick up at the end of his career. To me a Ron Dayne would compare to maybe a 4th round selection. He could spark but so can a D. Davis Williams.

TexansSeminole
11-02-2007, 01:35 PM
Good info but about two weeks ago I researched most of the free agents you mentioned. There is quite a bit of uncertainty if some will even be on the market. While Texans have estimated $30m, I do not want to throw money at "good" players. For a very good or excellent player, I would over pay if needed. A Samuel for example. If Bennett earns starter by end of season should we go after Asante? This 26 year old has 4 ints and even his coach said teams seem to be throwing away from him. He and Dunte could tighten down the D. Would that ease the need for a FS? Some say Samuel can only play cover 2. I doubt that.

The way I see it we need to upgrade the CB position somehow. Do we need to bring in a guy who can start, a guy who can play nickel, or do we draft a corner? We need to do one of these things. It would ease the need for a FS but it wouldn't hide the fact that we don't have one. FS is a pretty important position, the QB of the defense IMO (some say it is the MLB I think it is the FS).

infantrycak
11-02-2007, 01:44 PM
the QB of the defense IMO (some say it is the MLB I think it is the FS).

It's both. The MLB makes the calls for the front 7 and the FS for the DB's.

bah007
11-02-2007, 01:48 PM
It's both. The MLB makes the calls for the front 7 and the FS for the DB's.

Yea thats the way I remember it.

TexansSeminole
11-02-2007, 02:20 PM
It's both. The MLB makes the calls for the front 7 and the FS for the DB's.

I know they both recite the plays but there can only be one QB haha.

Ole Miss Texan
11-02-2007, 02:51 PM
well it seems nobody has been calling the plays in our secondary the last few games. There has been more blown assignments and coverages back there than I've ever seen on any nfl team over a season.

Assuming there is an overall lack of talent of our combined cornerbacks and safeties ...its a necessity to get the entire secondary on the same page. If one player blows his assignment in the secondary its an EASY touchdown if we're playing a good team...it requires (a) the opposing OL to hold their own against our DL....which is happening consistently and (b) a quarterback that will stand in the pocket and let plays develop.

The chargers have a good OL and a good QB. I'm not diminishing Antonio Gates freak athletic ability that game against us....but its pretty easy to score against a secondary where the players aren't all running the same play.