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Joe Texan
10-22-2007, 01:06 PM
I am going to bash anyone who even thinks about jumping on any of the defense in this game. For them to hold the Teetons to 7 feildgoals to give us the oppertunity sp to go ahead. I say hats off to the Defense and maybe the offense and Kubes will take a lesson and play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

YoungTexanFan
10-22-2007, 01:14 PM
I am going to bash anyone who even thinks about jumping on any of the defense in this game. For them to hold the Teetons to 7 feildgoals to give us the oppertunity sp to go ahead. I say hats off to the Defense and maybe the offense and Kubes will take a lesson and play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

That was some good redzone defense, but Smith's refusal to send the blitz or throw out uniqe packages cost us some this game IMO.

Porky
10-22-2007, 01:24 PM
I will say Travis Johnson came to play, but Kerry Collins looks like Payton Manning throwing to Harrison and Wayne, we didn't have much pass rush most of the game, and the Meatballs score on 10, count em, 10 drives, but you think the D played well? I don't know what your criteria of success is, but that ain't it in my mind. :devilpig:

bckey
10-22-2007, 01:25 PM
Well start bashing because they couldn't stop the backup qb, backup rb, and wr2 from getting into field goal range when it mattered. Good teams win when they have the lead with less than a minute left and all the momentum. The defense is healthy and has most of the top draft picks but they still continue to give up big plays when it matters and have no pass rush.

The Texans have now lost 3 division games with 2 out of 3 left on the road. And the remaining schedule looks really tough now. They will be lucky to be a 6 win team by the end of the season and match last years record. Seriously. They are losing to teams they should beat regardless of injuries. Remember. We almost lost to Miami and Cleo Lemon. Kris Brown had to pull that one out with a 57 yard kick. That is something that won't happen on a regular basis.

I'm happy Schaub and I like Kubiak way better than Capers but something needs fixing. Read Hervs post on this and I agree 100% with what he is saying.

Double Barrel
10-22-2007, 01:40 PM
I am going to bash anyone who even thinks about jumping on any of the defense in this game. For them to hold the Teetons to 7 feildgoals to give us the oppertunity sp to go ahead. I say hats off to the Defense and maybe the offense and Kubes will take a lesson and play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

yeah, getting scored on 10 times in a game is always something to be proud of....or not.

Face it, this whole team stinks, once again.

Oh, except they have 'heart' now, so that accounts for something I hear.

gtexan02
10-22-2007, 01:42 PM
Sorry, but giving up 38 points to a team missing their #1 running back, their #1 WR, and their #1 QB does not impress. Not to mention it was another game of ZERO pass rush, only 1 sack, and a game in which we gave up a game winning field goal with 50 seconds left.

beerlover
10-22-2007, 01:42 PM
is it too much to expect that Mario Williams makes a sack when the games on the line? sure the defense is tired but what about the offensive linemen of the Titans? this team needs the #1 overall pick to step up & show some leadership, Collins is a proto-typical pocket passer, not very mobile & suggestive to questionable decisions when harrassed under pressure. I don't care how good your db's are if you give a pure passer like Collins time to pick his targets, history will keep repeating itself until the big guy breaks thru- :deadhorse

DiehardChris
10-22-2007, 01:43 PM
They gave up 422 yards to an average (at best) offense lead by Kerry freaking Collins.

They got one sack, and aside from a small handful of plays, never got close to him otherwise.

The defense did well to not give up TDs, and it was great that they scored a TD themselves - but to say they deserve to be saluted? Come on. They got pushed around all day long.

Texan_Bill
10-22-2007, 01:44 PM
I am going to bash anyone who even thinks about jumping on any of the defense in this game. For them to hold the Teetons to 7 feildgoals to give us the oppertunity sp to go ahead. I say hats off to the Defense and maybe the offense and Kubes will take a lesson and play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

Joe,
I hear what you're saying but it's not so much bashing the defense as they held the Tinnbreads to field goals, but their inability to make a stop when really, really, REALLY needed (i.e. not allowing them to move the length of the field in under a minute). A defense can play well for 59 minutes, but if they can't make a game winning stop, then the onus is on them.

TexansLucky13
10-22-2007, 01:46 PM
yeah, getting scored on 10 times in a game is always something to be proud of....or not.

Face it, this whole team stinks, once again.

Oh, except they have 'heart' now, so that accounts for something I hear.

According to you, we had a good O-line. What happened to that?

:thumbdown

The fact is, I have a lot of respect for this defense after Sunday's game. Our offense couldn't move the ball for three quarters of football. The defense was out there playing their asses off to keep us in that game and to give the offense a chance.

The loss is on the offense, plain and simple. They couldn't get anything done until the fourth quarter, and that is bad football. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to have their brain scanned.

WWJD
10-22-2007, 01:46 PM
I'm sort of torn about how the defense played..on the one hand the Titans could have hung 60 on the Texans had the defense not stepped up...

on the other hand they had multiple scoring opportunities so the ship had a leak in it somewhere.

And that pass Collins throw was perfect...perfect....and he had time to throw.

Double Barrel
10-22-2007, 01:46 PM
If our defense cannot get inspired by ST recovering an on-side kick (twice in a row!) and an offensive effort by our BACKUPS, then they deserve all the criticism they get.

It was LESS THAN A MINUTE that they had to hold for us to have one of the greatest games in Texans history. Less than a freakin' minute!! And they failed. That's all there is to it.

WWJD
10-22-2007, 01:51 PM
The Titans are well coached although Coach Fisher looked like he had suffered a concussion there when the game was over...and was it just me but they really didn't celebrate that much...jumping on the kicker and all like most teams do when they kick a game winning throw.

The whole team was deficient yesterday. The offense was high schoolish for 3 quarters and the defense was bend but don't break...they need a defense that doesn't even bend.

The Titans about killed Schaub yesterday...he looked like Carr out there.

That surprised me. I did not know they had such a good D line.

DiehardChris
10-22-2007, 01:52 PM
If our defense cannot get inspired by ST recovering an on-side kick (twice in a row!) and an offensive effort by our BACKUPS, then they deserve all the criticism they get.

It was LESS THAN A MINUTE that they had to hold for us to have one of the greatest games in Texans history. Less than a freakin' minute!! And they failed. That's all there is to it.

I have to agree with all of the above. THIS was their chance to live up to even a tiny bit of their potential. We had ALL the momentum in the world.

All they had to do was stop an already average Titans offense who didn't even have it's greatest weapon - Vince Young. All they had to do was stop them ONE TIME and what did we get instead...

They didn't even have to use a single one of their three time outs!! The defense totally rolled over on that last drive. I get that they were exhausted - but you don't think the offense was exhausted after taking a beating for 3 quarters - then frantically scoring 29 points in the 4th?

Sorry, I think the defense deserves the criticism they get.

Double Barrel
10-22-2007, 01:53 PM
According to you, we had a good O-line. What happened to that?

uhhhh, we lost one of our best linemen awhile back? :um:

I thought you were smarter than that...

TexansLucky13
10-22-2007, 01:56 PM
I have to agree with all of the above. THIS was their chance to live up to even a tiny bit of their potential. We had ALL the momentum in the world.

All they had to do was stop an already average Titans offense who didn't even have it's greatest weapon - Vince Young. All they had to do was stop them ONE TIME and what did we get instead...

They didn't even have to use a single one of their three time outs!! The defense totally rolled over on that last drive. I get that they were exhausted - but you don't think the offense was exhausted after taking a beating for 3 quarters - then frantically scoring 29 points in the 4th?

Sorry, I think the defense deserves the criticism they get.

Yea, I think the offense was pretty rested, considering they only got three first downs in the first three quarters.

The defense deserves a better offense.

DiehardChris
10-22-2007, 01:57 PM
Yea, I think the offense was pretty rested, considering they only got three first downs in the first three quarters.

The defense deserves a better offense.

Whatever 'rest' they got from not getting first downs was replaced by them getting the living s**t kicked out of them. They were just as exhausted, I promise you.

Ole Miss Texan
10-22-2007, 03:01 PM
I thought our defense played well also. I understand 38 points to a back up QB, etc...and thats completely relevant but the following are the reasons why I think Tennessee's offense was so productive even though our defense played pretty well.

Houston Offensive Series:
1. Fumble on the 2nd play
2. 3 and out: PUNT
3. Interception on the 5th play.
4. 3 and out: PUNT
5. 3 and out: PUNT
6. 3 and out: PUNT
7. Fumble on the 2nd play.
....halftime.....
8. Interception on the 3rd play.
9. 3 and out: PUNT

There was our first 9 drives and the first 3 quarters. Our offense was utterly pathetic and keeping a defense on the field that long and that often is detrimental to a team. We need to get our OL build up because they are letting every single team get after our QB and not opening lanes for our RB's. Salaam has let more guys in his backfield than Pamela Anderson.

TxDavid
10-22-2007, 03:25 PM
I'm with you Joe. I don't fault the defense at all on this one. They were out on the field for 20 minutes of clock time during the first half alone - 2/3rds of the half. When the offense goes out there for 5 minutes at a time, and gets less yards than time it takes for me to walk into the stadium from the parking lot - I don't blame the defense. They're going to be a step slower by the end.

Coming around in the fourth quarter is too late. I don't think the offense broke a sweat until then. Imagine if half of those field goals were touchdowns. The defense made 8 stops in the redzone that resulted in FGs. If half of those were touchdowns there would have been 16 additional points on the board. The defense is not to blame here. It was a nice 4th quarter rally, but the offense has to play for the other 3 quarters too. This is not a 15 minute game.

DiehardChris
10-22-2007, 03:49 PM
Hey, I'm not blaming the defense for the loss. Far from it - I'm just saying that just as they don't deserve all the blame - they certainly deserve a share of it.

Again, they gave up 422 yards to an already average offense without their best weapon. It was a team loss. Offense, defense, ST, coaching, all the way down the line.

Speedy
10-22-2007, 07:04 PM
you're kidding yourself if you believe that a 3 and out, no matter how physical, compares to getting driven down the field everytime-for 3 quarters no less...

anyone care enough to post where the titans started each drive? i can't remember exactly but it didn't seem like the titans had many long drives...

When you're on the field for 30 minutes of the 1st 45 of the game, it doesn't really matter how long the drives are.

NINE trips to the redzone and even though the defense only allowed 2 TD's in those NINE trips, Tennessee scored on every single one. When you give up 10 scores out of 16 possessions, well, you stink.

And then when you're back in the game with a chance to actually win, and the defense just has to make one stop to save the day, they can't get it done.

So come on back and jump me for that, JT.

BigBull17
10-22-2007, 08:56 PM
I am going to bash anyone who even thinks about jumping on any of the defense in this game. For them to hold the Teetons to 7 feildgoals to give us the oppertunity sp to go ahead. I say hats off to the Defense and maybe the offense and Kubes will take a lesson and play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

Im a little in the middle of this topic. I feel they fought their ***** off to keep it from getting to out of hand, but they couldnt make the play when they needed to. Its just a fact, and no excuses are acceptable. Oh, and Faggins got hosed on the PI, for what its worth.

hookinreds
10-22-2007, 09:36 PM
Here is how the Defense got to start off each time back on the field.
1st
Titan 31 (FG)
Texan 23 (Ryans Fumble recovery)
Titan 39 (Ryans Fumble recovery for TD)
Titan 24 (punt)
Texan 38 (FG)
One drive for a FG

2nd
Texan 49 (FG)
Titan 23 (TD)
Titan 49 (FG)
Texan 32 (FG)
One long drive for a TD

3rd
Texan 30 (FG)
Titan 24 (TD)
One long drive for a TD

4th
Titan 20 (punt)
Titan 24 (punt muffed by Texans)
Texan 33 (punt)
Texan 17 (FG)
Titan 20 (FG)
One long drive for a FG

kiwitexansfan
10-22-2007, 09:59 PM
Letís put a little more perspective on this, against the Titans the D gave up long drives and gave up points. Flashback to the Jags game, the D gave up long drives and gave up points.

Isnít the idea of the defence to get the opposition off the field.

He who controls the clock, controls the game.

hookinreds
10-22-2007, 10:14 PM
Letís put a little more perspective on this, against the Titans the D gave up long drives and gave up points. Flashback to the Jags game, the D gave up long drives and gave up points.

Isnít the idea of the defence to get the opposition off the field.

He who controls the clock, controls the game.

The key is to keep your offense on the field, attempt to move the ball down the field, and scoring points. Our offense didn't stay on the field, sure as heck didn't move the ball, and didn't wasn't scoring.

Forcing your defense to go on the field to keep the other team from being in fieldgoal range after 20 yard or less is a rediculous thing to ask for, putting them on the field with the other team already in field goal range is (well let's just say it's not a nice thing)...and then tell them that's not good enough when they hold them to the FG or less?

Please tell me what you were expecting from the drives that I didn't highlight? The defense gave up one legitimate score per quarter, 2 FGs and two TDs. (excluding drives that required 25yrds or less to put the Titans in FG range from midfield.
For the length of time they were out there, coupled with the amount of time it takes to get your turn in line with the water bottle boy (that was so wrong) before you have to huddle back up, they did a good job.

Speedy
10-22-2007, 10:33 PM
You're forgetting that when Tennessee was in a position to have to have a long drive, they did it. Long drives, short drives, it doesn't matter. They did both. They had 4 drives of 9 plays or more and scored on every one. 3 drives of 60 yards or more and scored on every one. Tennessee started 7 drives inside their own 35 and scored 4 times for a total of 20 points, and 3 of those started inside their own 30.

The offense gets every bit as much of the blame and they put the D in a lot of bad situations, but to say the D didn't play all that bad is ridiculous. They stunk up the joint.

Joe Texan
10-22-2007, 10:40 PM
The Defense played with the will to win, the O played with the will to lose except in the 4th qtr. The coaches played to lose all game.

Why did Anderson feild a punt. What do we have now 5 punt returners.
Why anderson in a game this critical?

All you defense naysayers here I am bashing your heads:bat: :brickwall: :hothboy: :club: :deadhorse

jerek
10-22-2007, 10:48 PM
It's hard to stop any one when you're on the field for most of the game and are consistently getting put in awful position. Big turnovers were very costly and our offense couldn't stay on the field. What defense would play well in those circumstances?

Having said that, it's pretty piss poor that we couldn't muster up one stop when it mattered most. This game was an ugly performance all the way around, but our offense was worse.

hookinreds
10-22-2007, 10:56 PM
You're forgetting that when Tennessee was in a position to have to have a long drive, they did it. Long drives, short drives, it doesn't matter. They did both. They had 4 drives of 9 plays or more and scored on every one. 3 drives of 60 yards or more and scored on every one. Tennessee started 7 drives inside their own 35 and scored 4 times for a total of 20 points, and 3 of those started inside their own 30.

The offense gets every bit as much of the blame and they put the D in a lot of bad situations, but to say the D didn't play all that bad is ridiculous. They stunk up the joint.


Jeez, you write it like they had about 15 drives resulting in scores, when in actually it was only 4 times. Let's dissect your analysis shall we?

4 drives of 9 plays or more and scored on every one.
3 drives of 60yds or more and scored on every one (included in above)
Tennessee started 7 drives inside their own 35 and scored 4 times (included above)
3 of those started inside their own 30 (again included in above)

So what you really meant to say was that the Titans had 4 scoring drives consisting of 9 plays or more, 3 of which were of over 60 yards.

Funny how that still only equals the 20pts that I mentioned on the same 4 drives that I mentioned.

A drive that starts in or near FG range and ends up in a FG does not a drive make.

hookinreds
10-22-2007, 11:01 PM
Yea, if Dunta hadn't have given up that catch we would have won the game. He didn't even look for the ball! No worries, if they hadn't have caught it, he would have been flagged for PI since he was face guarding when he slapped for it.

Jeeez did that sound as stupid as I hope it did?

Granted, I have no freaking idea how the hell the couldn't hold them after that comeback either, that pissed me off...but the odds finally caught up.

kiwitexansfan
10-22-2007, 11:14 PM
Why were talking defense can we talk turnovers and sacks.

Why is this defense practically incapable of getting them?

Yes Ryans returned a fumble for a TD, but that is one sack which caused the one turnover, that is one defensive play worth noting, but they played a heck of a lot of plays where they came out the loser.

Is it scheme, personnel, coaching, the alignment of the moon?

:d: :d:
:shoot:

beerlover
10-22-2007, 11:22 PM
Why were talking defense can we talk turnovers and sacks.

Why is this defense practically incapable of getting them?

Yes Ryans returned a fumble for a TD, but that is one sack which caused the one turnover, that is one defensive play worth noting, but they played a heck of a lot of plays where they came out the loser.

Is it scheme, personnel, coaching, the alignment of the moon?

:d: :d:
:shoot:

the Texans have been making progress in that area its just not showing yet :d: Fisher has always done a good job preaching (attacking/dislodging the football) aggressive defensive philosophy his system has been in place for years so they have a different mind set.

Speedy
10-23-2007, 12:02 AM
Jeez, you write it like they had about 15 drives resulting in scores, when in actually it was only 4 times. Let's dissect your analysis shall we?

4 drives of 9 plays or more and scored on every one.
3 drives of 60yds or more and scored on every one (included in above)
Tennessee started 7 drives inside their own 35 and scored 4 times (included above)
3 of those started inside their own 30 (again included in above)

So what you really meant to say was that the Titans had 4 scoring drives consisting of 9 plays or more, 3 of which were of over 60 yards.

Funny how that still only equals the 20pts that I mentioned on the same 4 drives that I mentioned.

A drive that starts in or near FG range and ends up in a FG does not a drive make.I'm sorry. I didn't mean to confuse the issue with stats even though those 422 yards came from somewhere on that football field, but let me clear it up for you. The defense sucked. Good night now.

kiwitexansfan
10-23-2007, 02:37 AM
the Texans have been making progress in that area its just not showing yet :d: Fisher has always done a good job preaching (attacking/dislodging the football) aggressive defensive philosophy his system has been in place for years so they have a different mind set.

What evidence is there of progress being made, talking about doing something and making progress towards achieving what you talk about are different things.

beerlover
10-23-2007, 03:11 AM
What evidence is there of progress being made, talking about doing something and making progress towards achieving what you talk about are different things.

its fairly common knowledge thats something they where trying to work on during camp & pre-season. don't have the specific numbers in front of me but think they where leading the league after a couple weeks in take aways. You can see them & most other NFL teams trying to rip, hit, knock whatever dislodge the ball away from the runner or stand him up & wait for help. I was watching the Cowboy Viking game yesterday & Peterson had the ball stripped from him when the player held onto his free arm while he reached around & punched the ball away from his other hand, pretty slick, seems to be a trend or art form that some are better at performing than others.

not sure whats changed over the past several games, if its the defense wearing down, coaching waivering or lack of development in the practice but I do believe its getting better but its hard for them to stick to this practice when they struggle with basics like just wrapping up & stopping the running game or defending the pass when QB's have so much time to throw. Sage fumbling the center exchange was rust as was David Andersons lack of exposure returning punts, but by & large seperating the ball from offensive weapons is a skill aquired through coaching, practice then successful experience :twocents:

Kaiser Toro
10-23-2007, 07:41 AM
Here is a link to the drive chart for the game. Take into consideration that the time of possession was 30 to 15 minutes in favor of the Titians heading into the 3rd quarter. Defending a short field all game, coupled with no special teams, no starting QB, no WR1 and no running game says to me that the defense did a lot of bending and certainly did not quit. Much like the fans were waiting for someone to make a play on the field, I am sure the defense was as well, because everyone was tired.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/drivechart?game_id=29287&displayPage=tab_drive_chart&season=2007&week=REG7

Texan_Bill
10-23-2007, 08:52 AM
The Defense played with the will to win, the O played with the will to lose except in the 4th qtr. The coaches played to lose all game.

Why did Anderson feild a punt. What do we have now 5 punt returners.
Why anderson in a game this critical?

All you defense naysayers here I am bashing your heads:bat: :brickwall: :hothboy: :club: :deadhorse

Joe.. I wasn't bashing the "D" at all... They played well considering the turnovers and field position.

I merely stated that they weren't able to make a stop when it counted for the win.. If we use the excuse that they were tired - than whats the point of making a valiant comeback to begin with?? Should we have just folded our tents and said, well it doesnt matter 'cause the "D" will be too tired to stop them for a game winning field goal drive...

That coupled with the fact that this Defense (except Okoye) has done this before (See Buffalo last year)...

hookinreds
10-23-2007, 02:57 PM
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to confuse the issue with stats even though those 422 yards came from somewhere on that football field, but let me clear it up for you. The defense sucked. Good night now.


Team 1: 422 yards on 16 possessions = 26.375 yards per possession
Team 2: 324 yards on 9 possessions = 36.000 yards per possession
Team 3: 308 yards on 12 possessions = 25.666 yards per possession
Team 4: 226 yards on 10 possessions = 22.600 yards per possession
Team 5: 382 yards on 12 possessions = 31.833 yards per possession

Index:
Team 1=Houston (Rank #21 Def YPG)
Team 2=Pittsburgh (Rank #1 Def YPG)
Team 3=Baltimore (Rank #2 Def YPG)
Team 4=Indianapolis (Rank #3 Def YPG)
Team 5=New England (Rank #4 Def YPG)

8 times the Titans started at midfield or closer 6 of which started in FG range.
(TN49,H49,38,33,32,30,23,17) resulting in 6 FG; 1 Fum; 1 Punt

I'd say they did ok this week based on the number of possessions they had to defend.

Maddict5
10-23-2007, 03:07 PM
Team 1: 422 yards on 16 possessions = 26.375 yards per possession
Team 2: 324 yards on 9 possessions = 36.000 yards per possession
Team 3: 308 yards on 12 possessions = 25.666 yards per possession
Team 4: 226 yards on 10 possessions = 22.600 yards per possession
Team 5: 382 yards on 12 possessions = 31.833 yards per possession

Index:
Team 1=Houston (Rank #21 Def YPG)
Team 2=Pittsburgh (Rank #1 Def YPG)
Team 3=Baltimore (Rank #2 Def YPG)
Team 4=Indianapolis (Rank #3 Def YPG)
Team 5=New England (Rank #4 Def YPG)

8 times the Titans started at midfield or closer 6 of which started in FG range.
(TN49,H49,38,33,32,30,23,17) resulting in 6 FG; 1 Fum; 1 Punt

I'd say they did ok this week based on the number of possessions they had to defend.

i think somebody deserves some rep

Joe Texan
10-23-2007, 04:20 PM
I am not singling anyone out but there are a few of you who want to throw the team under the Bus. The Defense did all they could barring a coaches decision to give Dunta some help after the first pass on the last drive. Coaches lost the game plain and simple, the offense helped, the defense did all they could to keep us in it.

Specnatz
10-23-2007, 04:26 PM
I am not singling anyone out but there are a few of you who want to throw the team under the Bus. The Defense did all they could barring a coaches decision to give Dunta some help after the first pass on the last drive. Coaches lost the game plain and simple, the offense helped, the defense did all they could to keep us in it.

Exactly. when you limit them to just field goals with crappy position all game long, it is up to the offense to stop giving them the damn ball on a short field.

Oh was Dexter Wynn not active for the game?

Double Barrel
10-23-2007, 05:53 PM
I am not singling anyone out but there are a few of you who want to throw the team under the Bus. The Defense did all they could barring a coaches decision to give Dunta some help after the first pass on the last drive. Coaches lost the game plain and simple, the offense helped, the defense did all they could to keep us in it.

We've won with just defensive effort before. This just wasn't one of them.

I'm not throwing the D under a bus, but they had to prevent the Titans from scoring, not just touchdowns. Their kicker set an NFL record in our house, and I'm supposed to give them props?

Sorry, man, the entire team stunk it up and I'm not letting any of them off the hook. I'm tired of being a fanatic for a lost cause, and this is just words of frustration and aggravation on my part....obviously because I still care (damnit! :shades:)

I do agree, though, that the coaches should bear the brunt. The team did not seem to be prepared for this game, from both a mental and physical standpoint.

Speedy
10-23-2007, 07:34 PM
OK, whatever...38 points and 422 yards....the defense was out-freaking-standing. Yee-haw!!

joedinkle
10-23-2007, 07:52 PM
OK, whatever...38 points and 422 yards....the defense was out-freaking-standing. Yee-haw!!

What do you expect when they get the ball within our 40 on 6 possessions? They're in field goal range the moment they get the ball. We're lucky more of those weren't TD's.

Speedy
10-23-2007, 08:55 PM
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.

Vinny
10-23-2007, 09:32 PM
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.

nicely done :d:

TexansSeminole
10-23-2007, 09:39 PM
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.

rep

TexansLucky13
10-23-2007, 09:45 PM
Team 1: 422 yards on 16 possessions = 26.375 yards per possession
Team 2: 324 yards on 9 possessions = 36.000 yards per possession
Team 3: 308 yards on 12 possessions = 25.666 yards per possession
Team 4: 226 yards on 10 possessions = 22.600 yards per possession
Team 5: 382 yards on 12 possessions = 31.833 yards per possession

Index:
Team 1=Houston (Rank #21 Def YPG)
Team 2=Pittsburgh (Rank #1 Def YPG)
Team 3=Baltimore (Rank #2 Def YPG)
Team 4=Indianapolis (Rank #3 Def YPG)
Team 5=New England (Rank #4 Def YPG)

8 times the Titans started at midfield or closer 6 of which started in FG range.
(TN49,H49,38,33,32,30,23,17) resulting in 6 FG; 1 Fum; 1 Punt

I'd say they did ok this week based on the number of possessions they had to defend.

This is by far the most relevant post in this thread.

"You must spread some rep".... I owe you one.

Kaiser Toro
10-23-2007, 11:54 PM
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.

There ain't a big enough but in the world to hide the first part of your diatribe. The defense held in the first quarter and scored the only points. The offense flat out failed - fumble, punt, interception, punt, punt, punt fumble, interception, punt. That was the first nine possessions and they tallied 26 plays. At this point we are half way through the third quarter.

Yep the defense needs to get better. Yep individuals need to produce. But the incessant overstatement of the demise of the Texans defensive personnel is shockingly gleeful through this virtual voyeur's ocular cavities. Get us one FS, one LB and a new DC and we will be terrific.

Maddict5
10-24-2007, 12:32 PM
1st drive: started at TEN 31: 6 plays, 35 yards- 52 yd fg
2nd drive: started at HOU 23: 3 plays, fumble recovery
3rd drive: started at TEN 39: 1 play, fumble recovery,td
4th drive: started at TEN 24: 3 plays, 1 yard, punt
5th drive: started at HOU 38: 9 plays, 31 yards- 25 yd fg
6th drive: started at HOU 49: 4 plays, 45 yards-21 yd fg
7th drive: started at TEN 23: 9 plays 77 yards- 1 yd td
8th drive: started at HOU 32: 4 plays, 18 yards- 28 yd fg
9th drive: started at HOU 30: 6 plays, 5 yards- 43 yd fg
10th drive: started at TEN 27: 12 plays, 73 yards- 4yd td

NOTE: TO THIS POINT (3 MINS LEFT- 3 Q), THE TEXANS OFFENCE HAD 9 DRIVES AND AVERAGED EXACTLY 3 PLAYS PER DRIVE IN THIS TIME WITH (OBVIOUSLY) 0 POINTS AND 1 FIRST DOWN AND HAD HELD THE BALL FOR A WHOPPING 11 MIN 46 SEC OUT OF 42 MINUTES WHICH MEAN THE D HAD AN AVERAGE 1 MIN 18 SEC REST BEFORE BEING OUT ON THE FIELD AGAIN

THIS NOTICEABLY TIRED THE D IN THE 10TH DRIVE WHERE THEY NEVER EVEN FORCED A 3RD DOWN

the D has now 'conceded' 35 points but imo has made plenty of stops and forced a turnover when the tacks scoring position as well as scoring a defensive TD.. im really surprised at the people who are blaming the D for this mess when its so blatantly obvious that they made plenty of stops which, if they hadnt been given such ridiculous field position should've been punts.. some of the established posters should know better and DB, personally, id be thinking rob bironas would be sending thank you cards to the texans offence not the D

and look at the td's even:
1st- had the tacks in 3rd and long when petey got a harsh enough PI cal in the endzone
2nd- they were obviously gassed from being on the field



and just to finish it off:
11th drive: started at TEN 20, 4 plays, 31 yards, punt
12th drive: started at TEN 24, 3 plays, 6 yards, punt MUFF
13th drive: started at HOU 33, 3 plays, -6 yards, punt1 off play- int
14th drive: started at HOU 17, 3 plays, 6 yards, fg
Great job D- 3 stops in a row
Last drive: well you know- incomplete, incomplete, big gain for fg


My conclusion: the D came to play- got loads of stops and kept us in it.. this could have be an epic loss (im talking 50-60 points) if they hadn't played so well and many of the posters above me are just pissed about the game and want to blame everybody.. well not me, the D was great given the circumstances

:d: http://www.maddecent.com/blog/mp3/haters.jpg:d:

Texan Asylum
10-24-2007, 12:36 PM
Oh, except they have 'heart' now, so that accounts for something I hear.

I said that once...I'm thinking of taking it back. I'll wait for a few more games to make that call.

hookinreds
10-24-2007, 12:46 PM
1st drive: started at TEN 31: 6 plays, 35 yards- 52 yd fg
2nd drive: started at HOU 23: 3 plays, fumble recovery
3rd drive: started at TEN 39: 1 play, fumble recovery,td
4th drive: started at TEN 24: 3 plays, 1 yard, punt
5th drive: started at HOU 38: 9 plays, 31 yards- 25 yd fg
6th drive: started at HOU 49: 4 plays, 45 yards-21 yd fg
7th drive: started at TEN 23: 9 plays 77 yards- 1 yd td
8th drive: started at HOU 32: 4 plays, 18 yards- 28 yd fg
9th drive: started at HOU 30: 6 plays, 5 yards- 43 yd fg
10th drive: started at TEN 27: 12 plays, 73 yards- 4yd td

NOTE: TO THIS POINT (3 MINS LEFT- 3 Q), THE TEXANS OFFENCE HAD 9 DRIVES AND AVERAGED EXACTLY 3 PLAYS PER DRIVE IN THIS TIME WITH (OBVIOUSLY) 0 POINTS AND 1 FIRST DOWN AND HAD HELD THE BALL FOR A WHOPPING 11 MIN 46 SEC OUT OF 42 MINUTES WHICH MEAN THE D HAD AN AVERAGE 1 MIN 18 SEC REST BEFORE BEING OUT ON THE FIELD AGAIN

THIS NOTICEABLY TIRED THE D IN THE 10TH DRIVE WHERE THEY NEVER EVEN FORCED A 3RD DOWN

the D has now 'conceded' 35 points but imo has made plenty of stops and forced a turnover when the tacks scoring position as well as scoring a defensive TD.. im really surprised at the people who are blaming the D for this mess when its so blatantly obvious that they made plenty of stops which, if they hadnt been given such ridiculous field position should've been punts.. some of the established posters should know better and DB, personally, id be thinking rob bironas would be sending thank you cards to the texans offence not the D

and look at the td's even:
1st- had the tacks in 3rd and long when petey got a harsh enough PI cal in the endzone
2nd- they were obviously gassed from being on the field



and just to finish it off:
11th drive: started at TEN 20, 4 plays, 31 yards, punt
12th drive: started at TEN 24, 3 plays, 6 yards, punt MUFF
13th drive: started at HOU 33, 3 plays, -6 yards, punt1 off play- int
14th drive: started at HOU 17, 3 plays, 6 yards, fg
Great job D- 3 stops in a row
Last drive: well you know- incomplete, incomplete, big gain for fg


My conclusion: the D came to play- got loads of stops and kept us in it.. this could have be an epic loss (im talking 50-60 points) if they hadn't played so well and many of the posters above me are just pissed about the game and want to blame everybody.. well not me, the D was great given the circumstances

:d: http://www.maddecent.com/blog/mp3/haters.jpg:d:
Nice, rep added!

Maddict5
10-24-2007, 01:33 PM
The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.

that might be because, by my calculations, we've turned the ball over the 3rd most in the league (only behind STL and CHI) and as im going off stats, i have no idea where those teams turned the ball over but i suspect they weren't anywhere near as bad as we were against the titans on sunday.. so that stat means zilch imo

kiwitexansfan
10-24-2007, 01:46 PM
Team 1: 422 yards on 16 possessions = 26.375 yards per possession
Team 2: 324 yards on 9 possessions = 36.000 yards per possession
Team 3: 308 yards on 12 possessions = 25.666 yards per possession
Team 4: 226 yards on 10 possessions = 22.600 yards per possession
Team 5: 382 yards on 12 possessions = 31.833 yards per possession

Index:
Team 1=Houston (Rank #21 Def YPG)
Team 2=Pittsburgh (Rank #1 Def YPG)
Team 3=Baltimore (Rank #2 Def YPG)
Team 4=Indianapolis (Rank #3 Def YPG)
Team 5=New England (Rank #4 Def YPG)

8 times the Titans started at midfield or closer 6 of which started in FG range.
(TN49,H49,38,33,32,30,23,17) resulting in 6 FG; 1 Fum; 1 Punt

I'd say they did ok this week based on the number of possessions they had to defend.

Your statistics are flawed by the fact that there was such a short field to defend. If the Titans had longer fields, chances are they would of had longer drives.

As the field gets shorter it gets harder to move the ball because the defense becomes more concentrated, e.g. harder to stretch the field etc. This essentially is why bend don't break defenses work.

Also depending on the coaching, when a team gets into 'scoring position' playcalling can change to ensure that field position is not lost and the points are indeed scored.

I appreciate your work in doing these stats, but stats only tell part of the story, please don't let stats lie to your eyes. The defense got beat down in the three quarters that the Titans came to play and the only minute that counted.

hookinreds
10-24-2007, 02:45 PM
Your statistics are flawed by the fact that there was such a short field to defend. If the Titans had longer fields, chances are they would of had longer drives.

As the field gets shorter it gets harder to move the ball because the defense becomes more concentrated, e.g. harder to stretch the field etc. This essentially is why bend don't break defenses work.

Also depending on the coaching, when a team gets into 'scoring position' playcalling can change to ensure that field position is not lost and the points are indeed scored.

I appreciate your work in doing these stats, but stats only tell part of the story, please don't let stats lie to your eyes. The defense got beat down in the three quarters that the Titans came to play and the only minute that counted.

Flawed? All I did was take statistics that included every possession for each of the teams last week as a comparison of what each defense did that week. I didn't place the ball on a particular yard mark for any of the games, and I didn't check where each of there opponents drives started from either, but I guess I could do that.

Are you suggesting that the NFL should only count possessions that include drives of say 40+ yards? Last time I checked, you could still stretch a defense from outside the 30 and only need to get around the 33-35 yard line to have a "statistical" chance at making a field goal. Should the NFL disregard drives where the opponent starts on their own 40yd line and drives 25yds to kick a winning field goal?

All defenses (well most) are able to tighten up the reigns as the ball gets closer to the goal line. Making it more difficult to punch it in, that's why the Red Zone starts at the 20, not outside the 20, as you are expected to come away with a TD, a FG is a failure but still puts points on the board. 8 times the Titans had the ball in close and 6 times could only muster field goals. If the defense never went on the field and the Titans only attempted to kick, they would have probably hit 7-8 of them. So, the defense kept two of the possessions out of box score and the other 6 ended up what we prayed they would only become.

Please note that I am mearly expressing my perspective, not attacking you or any other poster personally...I would be doing the same thing if we were sitting next to each watching the game.

kiwitexansfan
10-24-2007, 02:59 PM
Flawed? All I did was take statistics that included every possession for each of the teams last week as a comparison of what each defense did that week. I didn't place the ball on a particular yard mark for any of the games, and I didn't check where each of there opponents drives started from either, but I guess I could do that.

Are you suggesting that the NFL should only count possessions that include drives of say 40+ yards? Last time I checked, you could still stretch a defense from outside the 30 and only need to get around the 33-35 yard line to have a "statistical" chance at making a field goal. Should the NFL disregard drives where the opponent starts on their own 40yd line and drives 25yds to kick a winning field goal?

All defenses (well most) are able to tighten up the reigns as the ball gets closer to the goal line. Making it more difficult to punch it in, that's why the Red Zone starts at the 20, not outside the 20, as you are expected to come away with a TD, a FG is a failure but still puts points on the board. 8 times the Titans had the ball in close and 6 times could only muster field goals. If the defense never went on the field and the Titans only attempted to kick, they would have probably hit 7-8 of them. So, the defense kept two of the possessions out of box score and the other 6 ended up what we prayed they would only become.

Please note that I am mearly expressing my perspective, not attacking you or any other poster personally...I would be doing the same thing if we were sitting next to each watching the game.

I'm just saying that stats without context are meaningless.

As the saying goes, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

hookinreds
10-29-2007, 01:18 AM
My apoligies, I didn't realize that we were posting threads a week in advance. You were right, it looked horrible.

:gun:

Dread-Head
10-29-2007, 01:57 AM
Buddy Ryan! Buddy Ryan! For the love of god BUDDY RYAN!

Better Idea. Let's see if we can get some DNA from Art Rooney, George Hallis, Vince Lombardi, Bear Bryant & Tom Landry. Spice all that DNA and create a SUPERCOACH! HA. HA HA. BWAH...HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!:stirpot:

Texanator
10-29-2007, 10:31 AM
As I said at the 3rd base. " Never give up and never surrender. " Our defense wasn't "GOOD" by any means, but am I the only one who noticed that on the Teetons last drive the play clock had ticked down to 0 then started up again and ticked to 37 before they ever snapped the ball? I always thought the home field advantage as far as time goes usually goes to the friggin HOME TEAM!!!! :gun: :gun: :gun:

hookinreds
10-29-2007, 02:49 PM
As I said at the 3rd base. " Never give up and never surrender. " Our defense wasn't "GOOD" by any means, but am I the only one who noticed that on the Teetons last drive the play clock had ticked down to 0 then started up again and ticked to 37 before they ever snapped the ball? I always thought the home field advantage as far as time goes usually goes to the friggin HOME TEAM!!!! :gun: :gun: :gun:

I actually resuscitated this thread as it was completely relevant to this weeks defense...or lack thereof.

:deadhorse: