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View Full Version : Why some people don't like Kevin Walter


KJ3
10-17-2007, 08:22 AM
because everyone has already forgotten how well he played on sunday. he finished with a career-high and game-high 12 catches for 160 yards (13.3 avg.).

just giving the due recognition.

Yankee_In_TX
10-17-2007, 08:32 AM
He has actually won me over. The more games he plays, the better he plays.

Vinny
10-17-2007, 08:52 AM
I don't know why you would think people don't like KW...I can't think of anyone slamming him or being negative about him since he has started to actually produce something. He's kinda of a cross between Tim Smith (ex-Oiler) and Joe Jurevicius...he really hasn't done much till the last few games.

HJam72
10-17-2007, 08:53 AM
Being impressed with AD or JJ doesn't necessarilly mean not liking Walter. Besides, I'm sure this last game has a lot of people changing their minds. I'm kind of on the fence right now, which is much better for Walter than what I thought a week ago.

Vinny
10-17-2007, 09:02 AM
vinny-seems to me that a lot of people still don't see him as a viable #2 across from aj. especially while andre davis was making a couple catches people wanted him at the 3 and davis at 2. i was never sold on davis (and that was before the endzone fumble and getting manhandled/letting the ball go) but i just felt like walter deserved some mention on here because he had a terrific game.
he's had what...one big game? Gaffney had a double digit catch game when AJ was out with Carr...we all know he was cut by two teams shortly afterwards. Patience....time will tell.

Yankee_In_TX
10-17-2007, 09:03 AM
I think AD and KW are two different types. AD is the speed burst smaller guy, while Kevin is a better blocking, more physical receiver (I could be totally wrong, but that's my mental impression).

Vinny
10-17-2007, 09:42 AM
its called an analogy...try one sometimes...they are tasty.

nunusguy
10-17-2007, 09:51 AM
I think AD and KW are two different types. AD is the speed burst smaller guy, while Kevin is a better blocking, more physical receiver (I could be totally wrong, but that's my mental impression).
That's an accurate description of each. Which begs the question, why use KW instead of AD in the reverse play that took all afternoon th develope with the plodding KW ? And whoever you use Kubiak, please don't have Schaub out there running interference. Dang kubiak !

HJam72
10-17-2007, 09:55 AM
All Schaub has to do is stick his head in somebody's knee. That ain't so hard. :user:

HJam72
10-17-2007, 09:56 AM
Apparently your analogy wasn't analgesic. :shades:

infantrycak
10-17-2007, 10:08 AM
That's an accurate description of each. Which begs the question, why use KW instead of AD in the reverse play that took all afternoon th develope with the plodding KW ? And whoever you use Kubiak, please don't have Schaub out there running interference. Dang kubiak !

That play was run with KW (I admit going what during the play) to set up a different play later in the game with the same formation and personnel--a pass that ended up with a pretty long gain I believe.

Marcus
10-17-2007, 10:16 AM
KJ3, to answer your question as to "why some people don't like Kevin Walter" is because he's a possession receiver. A possession receiver at the #2, no matter who it is, is just too vanilla for the great unwashed.

They want someone who has the speed to take it to the house, if he should happen to beat his man deep. They don't see that in Walter, and that's all they care about. Walter just ain't 'sexy' enough.

infantrycak
10-17-2007, 10:27 AM
KJ3, to answer your question as to "why some people don't like Kevin Walter" is because he's a possession receiver. A possession receiver at the #2, no matter who it is, is just too vanilla for the great unwashed.

They want someone who has the speed to take it to the house, if he should happen to beat his man deep. They don't see that in Walter, and that's all they care about. Walter just ain't 'sexy' enough.

And the funny thing is he catches balls deep with receptions this year of 39, 35 and 46 yds already.

PapaL
10-17-2007, 10:50 AM
And the funny thing is he catches balls deep with receptions this year of 39, 35 and 46 yds already.

Catching a deep ball and taking it to the house are two different things. No doubt Walter will catch it, he will however get caught shortly there after.

infantrycak
10-17-2007, 10:59 AM
Catching a deep ball and taking it to the house are two different things. No doubt Walter will catch it, he will however get caught shortly there after.

Slightly better ball placement would have resulted in a couple of those and some missed balls being TD's. Yes there is a difference, but he has more quicks than people give him credit for as well--avoiding one tackle is often more important that far down field than top end speed.

Mr teX
10-17-2007, 11:05 AM
props to you KJ3, Walter's showing why Kubes was so high on him in the 1st place. I remember in previous threads folks were wondering why he wasn't doing more & he should be demoted to 3rd string b/c of it.

Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.

HoustonFrog
10-17-2007, 11:14 AM
I despise the guy. Hate comes to mind. Burning anger.

Double Barrel
10-17-2007, 11:20 AM
While AJ is certainly our offensive playmaker, Schaub has done a great job with the remaining WRs. I've always hoped that KW would step up as a possession receiver, as I know the Bengals wanted to keep him when we signed him as an RFA. While a lot of folks have lobbied to have JJ at #2, I don't think Kevin is going to give up his spot without a fight.

QB/WRs has been one of the few bright spots this season, along with Kris Brown's leg.

DBCooper
10-17-2007, 11:29 AM
Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.


I think his speed is the perception problem. He is a decent receiver, if he was faster (quicker?), he would be a real threat.

dickieb
10-17-2007, 11:50 AM
And the funny thing is he catches balls deep with receptions this year of 39, 35 and 46 yds already.

Huh, huh, you said "balls deep" huh, huh.

Vinny
10-17-2007, 01:43 PM
i've seen it on more than one occassion schaub gets excited and throws a lob pass that makes you go...huh??!!

and then it lands like 10 ft in front of walter. i think for those instances schaub just needs to take a deep breath (figuratively) before he throws so he doesn't throw up anymore "giddyballs"...QB's misfire. I saw the great Tom Brady make a couple of awful throws last week too...it happens. Right now nobody but Schaub is really producing...his mistakes are magnified since he has to carry the team. Schaub is throwing for nearly 70% and he misses a few tosses that were important...but looking at his body of work makes me think it is an aberration.

infantrycak
10-17-2007, 02:13 PM
QB's misfire. I saw the great Tom Brady make a couple of awful throws last week too...it happens. Right now nobody but Schaub is really producing...his mistakes are magnified since he has to carry the team. Schaub is throwing for nearly 70% and he misses a few tosses that were important...but looking at his body of work makes me think it is an aberration.

Exactly--this micro-examination of Schaub after each game is like a 180 degree reversal from past years. Now instead of expectations being too low they are ridiculously high with the QB expected to be darn near perfect. Manning, Brady and every other QB make poor throws and less than ideal placement throws every week.

TexanSam
10-17-2007, 02:16 PM
I think why people complained about Walter in the past is because he hadn't shown anything. Before the season, Kubiak stated Walter was going in as our #2 WR when he had done nothing in previous years to show that he could handle the task. Obviously, things have changed now and I'm not sure of anyone who dislikes Walter right now.

dtran04
10-17-2007, 02:20 PM
It shows that Kubiak really does know what he's doing. His mistake was not playing him earlier, like he admitted.

Hervoyel
10-17-2007, 02:36 PM
its called an analogy...try one sometimes...they are tasty.


They taste of chicken!

Lucky
10-17-2007, 05:24 PM
I just wanted to congratulate everyone in the thread who correctly spelled "Walter" rather than "Walters". It is a TexansTalk record and you all should be proud.

"Everyone" liked Davis more than Walter because Andre had made some plays downfield in the Colts and Falcons games. Now, Davis fumbles out of the end zone, Walter has a breakout game, and "Everyone" like Walter more. After Jacoby takes a skinny post to the house against the Titans, "Everyone" will want Jones to become the #2 WR. "Everyone" is known for asking the question, "What have you done for me lately?"

They taste of chicken!

That you made me laugh at that is so wrong.

FILO_girl
10-17-2007, 05:46 PM
its called an analogy...try one sometimes...they are tasty.


That's a repper if I have ever saw one.

I think 'ol KW has really stepped up to help out with AJ's absence.
But opinions are like a-holes...and mine has sat too long today already.:shades:

BigBull17
10-17-2007, 06:06 PM
QB's misfire. I saw the great Tom Brady make a couple of awful throws last week too...it happens. Right now nobody but Schaub is really producing...his mistakes are magnified since he has to carry the team. Schaub is throwing for nearly 70% and he misses a few tosses that were important...but looking at his body of work makes me think it is an aberration.

Yeah, hes in the range of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, with AJ and JJ out and no running game. Hes carrying this team right now.

Fox
10-17-2007, 07:22 PM
Schaub is undoubtedly carrying this team right now and if our defense was playing lights out like the jaguar's, the titan's, or the bucc's than we'd all forget about his misfires and be talking about how he's a natural born winner. My main problems with Schaub's game at this point is he seems to miss throws in the red zone, sometimes wide open (by NFL standards) receivers, and that although he obviously has a good amount of pocket presence he's putting too many balls on the ground. Getting caught from behind and fumbling can happen to the best QB's, but regardless, it's happening too much right now with him and he's got to get that fixed.

nunusguy
10-17-2007, 08:39 PM
Schaub is undoubtedly carrying this team right now and if our defense was playing lights out like the jaguar's, the titan's, or the bucc's than we'd all forget about his misfires and be talking about how he's a natural born winner.
The defense didn't play that badly on Sunday for 3 quarters, except for the Jags busting a couple long running plays. They got a couple turnovers for the offense, but the O just couldn't convert for TDs. But I suppose they did let up eventually after watching the offense fall flat on its face so many times.

Fox
10-17-2007, 08:47 PM
The defense didn't play that badly on Sunday for 3 quarters, except for the Jags busting a couple long running plays. They got a couple turnovers for the offense, but the O just couldn't convert for TDs. But I suppose they did let up eventually after watching the offense fall flat on its face so many times.

They didn't play badly when Reggie Williams fumbled the ball. How many times did they force Jax to punt again? They didn't give up many home runs until the fourth, but they did give up 7-8 minute drives for TD's and most teams will take that any day..

To the poster about Schaub's fumbling issue, as I said above it happens to the best of them, but it's happening too often with Schaub right now. He's fumbled four times in the past three games, he needs to be more aware of where the rush is coming from and that he needs to get rid of the ball.

Runner
10-17-2007, 09:05 PM
Apparently your analogy wasn't analgesic. :shades:

Although it was apoplectic.

Runner
10-17-2007, 09:08 PM
It shows that Kubiak really does know what he's doing.

At best 50/50 on number two receivers right now - Moulds/Walter.

50/50 - Bradford's nickname. 50/50 shot of catching a ball that hit him in the hands.........

False Start
10-17-2007, 09:16 PM
K Dub is a cool guy . I'm glad to see him succeed . Maybe he could turn out to be Largentish ........... :cool:

barrett
10-17-2007, 09:35 PM
I just wanted to congratulate everyone in the thread who correctly spelled "Walter" rather than "Walters". It is a TexansTalk record and you all should be proud.

It's been driving me crazy the extra "s". I've taken to calling him Kevins Walter.

p.s. I've coined a new nick name for mister Daniels as well....

"OPEN Daniels"

Fox
10-17-2007, 10:20 PM
how can you ask him to do something that people can't do? people can't see behind them. that's physics. it's a weird coincidence that people keep hitting him as he pulls the ball up to throw, it sucks and i wish it would quit happening, but i don't think he could have much better pocket presence than he does right now...you're being pretty picky with your observations man...

He isn't always getting hit as he pulls up to throw, against Jax he was rolling out trying to make a play and Spicer ran him down before he'd even begun the throwing motion. I'd be pretty surprised if after 8 games as a starter Schaub couldn't make any improvements in his pocket presence, do you think he's already achieved his maximum potential?

Napa Auto Parts
10-18-2007, 01:01 AM
I like Walter i just cant get used to the Idea Of having a White wide Reciever well unless if it was Steve Largent or Eddie Mac:texflag:

Vinny
10-18-2007, 01:13 AM
I'd be pretty surprised if after 8 games as a starter Schaub couldn't make any improvements in his pocket presence, do you think he's already achieved his maximum potential?
We just went from one of the most awful QB's in the NFL with the least amount of pocket presence to a guy who is probably top 5 when it comes to getting that ball out of his hands...you guys really are nitpicking this way too much. Schaub really avoided several sacks Sunday and gets that ball out in a hurry...you just aren't going to be able to look good 100% of the time if your team can't run the ball. The Titans have nothing but praise (http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/2003/titans/demand/v_texans101707.rm&proto=rtsp) for his pocket awareness.

Fox
10-18-2007, 10:09 AM
yea, i remember that. he was running away from spicer even though spicer was in an area that he couldn't see. pretty unreal how much pocket presence schaub has, and if this is the maximum i think we're all fine with it because it's some of the best in the league. spicer is just faster, what is he supposed to do? steriods? to run faster?!

NEXT

Ha, he's achieved his potential in 8 games, brilliant. You don't have to look at every defender to be aware of them. Four fumbles in three games is too many, plain and simple, if our protection is sub par Schaub needs to work on being more aware of the situation and balancing holding onto the ball, trying to make a play, and getting rid of it. I like how he stands in the pocket and calmly rolls out to let plays develop, but it's also allowing defenders to get in and knock the ball out. Schaub and Kubiak need to work on it, it's not that difficult of a concept, we shouldn't be fumbling the ball from our QB 1+ times a game regardless.

This has nothing to do with Carr. I don't evaluate what I see on the field with Schaub by comparing it to Carr, I evaluate Schaub by his play. He has things he can work on, I don't think it's too nit picky to say that any player has areas of his game he can work on. I agree with you that the run game definitely has alot to do with it, it's allowing teams to pin back their ears and come after Schaub every down. Hopefully when we get the run going, this problem will get better, but until then I don't think Kubiak is going to use that as any excuse to turn over the ball.

real
10-18-2007, 10:22 AM
Ha, he's achieved his potential in 8 games, brilliant. You don't have to look at every defender to be aware of them. Four fumbles in three games is too many, plain and simple, if our protection is sub par Schaub needs to work on being more aware of the situation and balancing holding onto the ball, trying to make a play, and getting rid of it. I like how he stands in the pocket and calmly rolls out to let plays develop, but it's also allowing defenders to get in and knock the ball out. Schaub and Kubiak need to work on it, it's not that difficult of a concept, we shouldn't be fumbling the ball from our QB 1+ times a game regardless.

This has nothing to do with Carr. I don't evaluate what I see on the field with Schaub by comparing it to Carr, I evaluate Schaub by his play. He has things he can work on, I don't think it's too nit picky to say that any player has areas of his game he can work on. I agree with you that the run game definitely has alot to do with it, it's allowing teams to pin back their ears and come after Schaub every down. Hopefully when we get the run going, this problem will get better, but until then I don't think Kubiak is going to use that as any excuse to turn over the ball.

If your mother accidentally spills some juice on your rug are you going to fuss and complain, and ***** and moan ?




Sometimes it's good to appreciate the overall body of work and don't sweat the small stuff...

You're sweating the small stuff kido...relaxx.....:cowboy1:

Fox
10-18-2007, 10:31 AM
If your mother accidentally spills some juice on your rug are you going to fuss and complain, and ***** and moan ?




Sometimes it's good to appreciate the overall body of work and don't sweat the small stuff...

You're sweating the small stuff kido...relaxx.....:cowboy1:

I happen to think Schaub is a great QB and the answer for this team, I just think he can get better. But.... ok, I'll stop criticizing him, Schaub is god. Everything he does is fantastic. Where's the kool aid?

The Pencil Neck
10-18-2007, 11:14 AM
I happen to think Schaub is a great QB and the answer for this team, I just think he can get better. But.... ok, I'll stop criticizing him, Schaub is god. Everything he does is fantastic. Where's the kool aid?

Let's say I criticize you because you only put one space between a period and the first letter of the next sentence. That would be really dumb, wouldn't it? (EDIT: Especially because it looks like the display is automatically killing the second space. :) )

Schaub is not God. Schaub makes plenty of mistakes. There are lots of things that you can criticize him for... pocket presence isn't really one of those things. You could say that he underthrows some deep balls. That he isn't as accurate on the deep balls as he could be. That sometimes he seems to throw off his back foot and from odd angles. That he's been able to move the ball between the 20's but he hasn't been able to put the ball in the end zone. That he makes a couple of bonehead plays every game.

But pocket presence? I don't see his pocket presence as anything close to being a problem. I'm not even going to get onto him for ball security in that instance because I think he was about the pull the ball back to throw it. I have a problem with ball security when a QB is running around with the ball in one hand when they're NOT going to throw, but if they're about to throw and they get hit, the ball has to be in one hand so I'm not going to worry about that.

real
10-18-2007, 11:21 AM
I happen to think Schaub is a great QB and the answer for this team, I just think he can get better. But.... ok, I'll stop criticizing him, Schaub is god. Everything he does is fantastic. Where's the kool aid?


What you write does have a tone, and the tone of your writing is coming off as more bitchy-moany rather than constructive criticism...

We know that is something he needs to work on...We know that those are things he shouldn't have done...

It would be like constantly harping on your mother for spilling that juice on your rug...

Sometimes a simple "uuuggghhh" is enough....

Fox
10-18-2007, 11:47 AM
Let's say I criticize you because you only put one space between a period and the first letter of the next sentence. That would be really dumb, wouldn't it? (EDIT: Especially because it looks like the display is automatically killing the second space. :) )

Schaub is not God. Schaub makes plenty of mistakes. There are lots of things that you can criticize him for... pocket presence isn't really one of those things. You could say that he underthrows some deep balls. That he isn't as accurate on the deep balls as he could be. That sometimes he seems to throw off his back foot and from odd angles. That he's been able to move the ball between the 20's but he hasn't been able to put the ball in the end zone. That he makes a couple of bonehead plays every game.

But pocket presence? I don't see his pocket presence as anything close to being a problem. I'm not even going to get onto him for ball security in that instance because I think he was about the pull the ball back to throw it. I have a problem with ball security when a QB is running around with the ball in one hand when they're NOT going to throw, but if they're about to throw and they get hit, the ball has to be in one hand so I'm not going to worry about that.

Fair enough, his red zone performance and fumbling were just the two issues that jumped to my mind. There are bigger issues as you pointed out to complain about. Turn over's just stick in my mind because they cause such drastic changes in momentum.

HoustonFrog
10-18-2007, 12:18 PM
We just went from one of the most awful QB's in the NFL with the least amount of pocket presence to a guy who is probably top 5 when it comes to getting that ball out of his hands...you guys really are nitpicking this way too much. Schaub really avoided several sacks Sunday and gets that ball out in a hurry...you just aren't going to be able to look good 100% of the time if your team can't run the ball. The Titans have nothing but praise (http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/2003/titans/demand/v_texans101707.rm&proto=rtsp) for his pocket awareness.

I can't add much to this or to what others said below

As far as Walters, I think with AJ not coming back anytime soon....well it looks like that could be the case...he could really be an every week 6-8 catch guy if he plays like last week and works the middle and the sidelines.

The Pencil Neck
10-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Fair enough, his red zone performance and fumbling were just the two issues that jumped to my mind. There are bigger issues as you pointed out to complain about. Turn over's just stick in my mind because they cause such drastic changes in momentum.

That particular turnover was really painful but I consider it an example of the defense just making a good play. Last year, when DC fumbled and it was returned for a TD (against the Raiders and against the Titans), it was a different situation I think. He was just running with the ball in one hand in one situation and wasn't really looking to throw and he was hit and the ball came out. The other time, iirc, he was looking down the field with the ball in one hand and it got stripped out. Those are examples of bad, bad fumbles.

I'm more concerned with Andre Davis' fumble. If he had the ball secure OR he was actively reaching it out across the goal line, we have a TD there instead of them having the ball on the 20 and beginning the time killing drive that sucked the life out of us. Also, the ball getting away from Davis on that "interception" was very irritating. He's been playing really well and made some amazing plays but those two plays seem like a lack of concentration.

Fox
10-18-2007, 12:46 PM
No doubt AD's fumble into the end zone was probably the most frustrating play of the day for me. Almost as frustrating as when Gaffney inexplicably fumbled the ball into the end zone without even having a defender touch him. I really don't like that rule, maybe it's sour grapes but I would like the offense to retain the ball, lose the down, and get the ball on the 5 or something rather than give it away. Fumbles in the red zone can be, in effect, a 14 point swing because you go from being potentially being 7 up to 7 behind if they capitalize on the turn over and score a TD, huge game changers.

Walter's been very steady and just what this offense needs with AJ down. I think his lack of speed is evident when he runs reverses, but he's got enough speed to get behind a defense and if Schaub puts more on some of those balls so Walter doesn't have to wait on them then he goes for TD's instead of 30 yards.

Second Honeymoon
10-18-2007, 03:07 PM
I love Schaub
I love Walter (though I wasn't very high on him after last year but that was with a total scrub throwing him the rock)
I hate haters

Specnatz
10-18-2007, 03:10 PM
a'davis' fumble in the endzone might be something i never let go. maybe i will, but i doubt it...holding the ball out like that makes it so unsecured that i'm sure i could strip him, or my sister, or baby infant jesus could...that's just...dumb.

getting the ball manhandled out of your grasp doesn't sit well with me either, although i thought he was clearly down as he had possession, a knee down, and contact from a defender. but, twas an interception.

He is a young player and he made a mistake, I bet he does not make it again though.

Vinny
10-18-2007, 03:12 PM
He is a young player and he made a mistake, I bet he does not make it again though.Don't kid yourself...he will keep making mistakes...they all do. The great ones make plays to overcome their mistakes.

HoustonFrog
10-18-2007, 03:21 PM
a'davis' fumble in the endzone might be something i never let go. maybe i will, but i doubt it...holding the ball out like that makes it so unsecured that i'm sure i could strip him, or my sister, or baby infant jesus could...that's just...dumb.

getting the ball manhandled out of your grasp doesn't sit well with me either, although i thought he was clearly down as he had possession, a knee down, and contact from a defender. but, twas an interception.

I'm there with you. That is a tide-turner and pretty much changes the way the Jags had to play offense. They are on their heals to they really can play their own brand of ball. Its frustrating because from the one and a guy persuing you can wrap both arms around it and fall forward and make it. It was simply dumb.

76Texan
10-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Don't kid yourself...he will keep making mistakes...they all do. The great ones make plays to overcome their mistakes.

Exactly!

Will MS be able to overcome not only his mistakes, but those of others on the team as well, that is the question.

As Kubiak said, with Matt, they are trying to work with him to become better than just an average QB.

IMO, MS is on schedule as far as the learning curve.
He's not ahead, he's not behind.

Vinny
10-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Exactly!

Will MS be able to overcome not only his mistakes, but those of others on the team as well, that is the question.

As Kubiak said, with Matt, they are trying to work with him to become better than just an average QB.

IMO, MS is on schedule as far as the learning curve.
He's not ahead, he's not behind.We would be 1-5 without Schaub. He lead us to a come from behind victory over the Panthers, he was moving the team between the 20's and giving us a shot to beat the Dolphins when we had zero skill guys healthy besides him. Without that last min drive from the 3 yard line in a critical situation we don't win that game. That was something Carr could not do...when we needed a big drive it was always 3 and out. When we needed a garbage time TD it was a 5 yard dinkfest against prevent defenses till we scored with Carr. Schaub avoided at least 4 drive killing sacks last Sunday with his pocket awareness and feel for the game.

76Texan
10-18-2007, 04:14 PM
I do not understand your point in the last post, Vinny.

Vinny
10-18-2007, 04:25 PM
I do not understand your point in the last post, Vinny.
I'm elaborating on your point...if he was not playing up to expectations we would be 1-5. I can't see victories in those two games with our old QB at the helm. I think most of us who are reasonable expect him to improve as he gains experience...but so far he has been a breath of fresh air.

76Texan
10-18-2007, 04:36 PM
I'm elaborating on your point...if he was not playing up to expectations we would be 1-5. I can't see victories in those two games with our old QB at the helm. I think most of us who are reasonable expect him to improve as he gains experience...but so far he has been a breath of fresh air.

Agree! We can all use some fresh air!

But honestly, I don't know what record we would have if Carr is still here.
Probably best that I don't think about it, LOL!:cool:

BigBull17
10-18-2007, 04:40 PM
We just went from one of the most awful QB's in the NFL with the least amount of pocket presence to a guy who is probably top 5 when it comes to getting that ball out of his hands...you guys really are nitpicking this way too much. Schaub really avoided several sacks Sunday and gets that ball out in a hurry...you just aren't going to be able to look good 100% of the time if your team can't run the ball. The Titans have nothing but praise (http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/2003/titans/demand/v_texans101707.rm&proto=rtsp) for his pocket awareness.

Good point. Schaub wasnt the only QB to give up a fumble Sunday. Anyone know who it was?

HOU-TEX
10-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Good point. Schaub wasnt the only QB to give up a fumble Sunday. Anyone know who it was?

Culpepper

santo
10-18-2007, 04:47 PM
Good point. Schaub wasnt the only QB to give up a fumble Sunday. Anyone know who it was?


Brady

Double Barrel
10-18-2007, 04:52 PM
Brady

Who was also sacked 3 times, too, IIRC.

BigBull17
10-18-2007, 04:53 PM
Culpepper

Close, the guy Im thinking about has a little more Hardware.

Specnatz
10-18-2007, 05:06 PM
Don't kid yourself...he will keep making mistakes...they all do. The great ones make plays to overcome their mistakes.

Was not my point. I know he will make mistakes but I was referring to that mistake in particular. Where he held the ball out in front and it was an easy strip.

New_Texans
10-18-2007, 05:07 PM
Hes not a number 1, he can catch all the balls he want and eat up yards but he can't score touchdowns with is YAC ability. Hes a number 2-3...We really need to have Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones, and Walter out there. Two burners and two clutch receivers (including Daniels).

Runner
10-18-2007, 06:13 PM
Who was also sacked 3 times, too, IIRC.


Brady, huh? Did they score any offensive touchdowns? :)

Malloy
10-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Honestly I had no feelings about him as a player, neither good nor bad before last sunday. Kevin Walter did impress me and I hope he keeps doing that!

BigBull17
10-18-2007, 07:06 PM
Brady, huh? Did they score any offensive touchdowns? :)

Yeah, but is their # 3 David Anderson?

Texanmike02
10-18-2007, 08:15 PM
props to you KJ3, Walter's showing why Kubes was so high on him in the 1st place. I remember in previous threads folks were wondering why he wasn't doing more & he should be demoted to 3rd string b/c of it.

Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.

Schaub's deep ball has been less than impressive. He's missed several receivers deep. One of the reason I haven't given him an A when I reviewed the games.

You must be able to hit that deep ball especially when your receiver gets a step.

as far as KW... He has EXCELLENT hands. I think the best on the team. He's not the best athlete on the team but he runs very crisp routes and shields the ball with is body well when catching in traffic. He is a classic possession receiver. As Schaub works on his game... he will be a valuable part of this offense.

Mike

BigBull17
10-18-2007, 09:50 PM
Schaub's deep ball has been less than impressive. He's missed several receivers deep. One of the reason I haven't given him an A when I reviewed the games.

You must be able to hit that deep ball especially when your receiver gets a step.

as far as KW... He has EXCELLENT hands. I think the best on the team. He's not the best athlete on the team but he runs very crisp routes and shields the ball with is body well when catching in traffic. He is a classic possession receiver. As Schaub works on his game... he will be a valuable part of this offense.

Mike

I agree he has had a few bad deep throws, but at least he freakin throws them. YKW was so scared of makeing mistakes he refused to throw them. You cant be that way. He will get his aim down and learn the placing he needs. But other than that, he has been having a great year.

Kaiser Toro
10-18-2007, 09:52 PM
I likes these Kevins Walters. :specnatz:

Texanmike02
10-18-2007, 10:24 PM
I agree he has had a few bad deep throws, but at least he freakin throws them. YKW was so scared of makeing mistakes he refused to throw them. You cant be that way. He will get his aim down and learn the placing he needs. But other than that, he has been having a great year.

That may be true. But I'm pretty much done measuring players on our roster today by the standards set in the past. MS has to be judged on his own merit. That really goes for the whole team. Especially when talking about what their skill set is.

Mike

Fox
10-18-2007, 10:33 PM
Do you guys think the short throws on deep routes are an issue with accuracy, arm strength, or timing? It's probably a little of each, but I've seen some posters and Lance Zierlein refer to it as an arm strength issue. On Andre's 70 some odd yard TD to start the season he didn't have to slow down for the ball, so we know Schaub has the ability to hit the deep ball on the money. I've also seen him overthrow receivers deep so I don't think it's all arm strength. I tend to think at this point he may be just throwing the ball too late and not throwing it too deep for fear of overthrowing his target.

It's not a horrible problem, a 30-40 yard reception is still a 30-40 yard reception, but if he can get the timing worked out to hit them in stride we're going to score more touchdowns and force teams to keep their safeties back.

Texanmike02
10-18-2007, 10:45 PM
Do you guys think the short throws on deep routes are an issue with accuracy, arm strength, or timing? It's probably a little of each, but I've seen some posters and Lance Zierlein refer to it as an arm strength issue. On Andre's 70 some odd yard TD to start the season he didn't have to slow down for the ball, so we know Schaub has the ability to hit the deep ball on the money. I've also seen him overthrow receivers deep so I don't think it's all arm strength. I tend to think at this point he may be just throwing the ball too late and not throwing it too deep for fear of overthrowing his target.

It's not a horrible problem, a 30-40 yard reception is still a 30-40 yard reception, but if he can get the timing worked out to hit them in stride we're going to score more touchdowns and force teams to keep their safeties back.

I'm not sure. Judging from what I've seen its a timing/accuracy issue if you ask me. I've seen him make long throws... longer than some of the ones he misses on. It seems to be a placement issue if you ask me. Take for example the one to AD on the right sideline in the ATL game. It was thrown over the wrong shoulder (unless I suppose AD was supposed to leave more room on the sideline when he ran his route).... AD had to turn and contort his body and wasn't able to reel it in. That throw was about as deep as he's been asked to throw the ball, other than the one he under threw KW to in the Miami game on the left side.... maybe he's trying to lay it in there with too much touch... because KW did have his man beat when he got to that spot.. he just had to wait for the ball If its thrown at a lower trajectory its prob 6.

Mike

BigBull17
10-18-2007, 10:49 PM
That may be true. But I'm pretty much done measuring players on our roster today by the standards set in the past. MS has to be judged on his own merit. That really goes for the whole team. Especially when talking about what their skill set is.

Mike

That wasnt really my goal to compair the two. I just said that to win in this leauge, you have to take that chance. If you dont, then D's can just take the away the shallow/intermediate and you're dead in the water. It happened to use repeatedly in the past, and to Tampa with Brad Johnson. If there is no threat deep, its harder to play offense. Thus, even if he hasnt had sucess that he wants, he still has shown the ballz to let it rip. So, as a defense, you cant shorten your coverage against us. I guess I should have been more clear.

I know it sounds like rambling, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.

Texanmike02
10-18-2007, 11:33 PM
That wasnt really my goal to compair the two. I just said that to win in this leauge, you have to take that chance. If you dont, then D's can just take the away the shallow/intermediate and you're dead in the water. It happened to use repeatedly in the past, and to Tampa with Brad Johnson. If there is no threat deep, its harder to play offense. Thus, even if he hasnt had sucess that he wants, he still has shown the ballz to let it rip. So, as a defense, you cant shorten your coverage against us. I guess I should have been more clear.

I know it sounds like rambling, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

BigBull17
10-18-2007, 11:59 PM
I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

Yeah, he had a better touch early. I know people dont want to hear psyco babble, but I think he was so worried about throwing a pick, he let it get to him. Of corse, he started throwing them and then became scared to even think about it.

On a side note, Im completly not on topic. So, I have no idea why poeple get wierd on Walter. I guess its because he is nothing like you would expect your #2 to look like. He isnt fast. He isnt a huge guy. He isnt a fantastic leaper. He just does all the blue collor things that make you successful. Hes not gonna get you 150 every game. Hes not a 2 TD a game guy. Hes not a YAC guy. He will just catch 5 balls for around 50-70 yards, and 4 of them will be first downs.

I will admit, I think Davis gives us our best threat opposite Dre, but Walter should be on this team for a while as a #3. When Jacoby is ready, he will still be there and thats not a bad thing. You could do worse at the spot than Walter. Remember Corey Bradford?

The Pencil Neck
10-19-2007, 02:01 AM
I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

I've always thought he injured something in his rotator cuff and lost the strength necessary to make those throws. I've said that before and been told that I was wrong. But something happened to make him stop throwing the deep ball.

Texanmike02
10-19-2007, 06:19 AM
I've always thought he injured something in his rotator cuff and lost the strength necessary to make those throws. I've said that before and been told that I was wrong. But something happened to make him stop throwing the deep ball.

didn't he separate it or something at one point? Because I know the last two or 3 years he just couldn't throw it... the few times he tried they weren't the same.

Mike

Mr teX
10-19-2007, 09:37 AM
didn't he separate it or something at one point? Because I know the last two or 3 years he just couldn't throw it... the few times he tried they weren't the same.

Mike

Eh, i know in 1 of our buffalo games something happened to his throwing shoulder, but i don't think arm strengh was the issue with his deep ball towards the end of his tenure here. he just got so paranoid of throwing a pick that he often times just tried to throw it where no one, not even his WR, could catch it.

infantrycak
10-19-2007, 10:04 AM
I'm not sure. Judging from what I've seen its a timing/accuracy issue if you ask me. I've seen him make long throws... longer than some of the ones he misses on. It seems to be a placement issue if you ask me. Take for example the one to AD on the right sideline in the ATL game. It was thrown over the wrong shoulder (unless I suppose AD was supposed to leave more room on the sideline when he ran his route).... AD had to turn and contort his body and wasn't able to reel it in. That throw was about as deep as he's been asked to throw the ball, other than the one he under threw KW to in the Miami game on the left side.... maybe he's trying to lay it in there with too much touch... because KW did have his man beat when he got to that spot.. he just had to wait for the ball If its thrown at a lower trajectory its prob 6.

Mike

It is timing and accuracy, but it may not all be on the QB. Classic counter example from Brady last week. Watson down the middle with the DB tight on his left shoulder. Brady throws the ball to the left of the DB and then Watson breaks across the front of the DB and gets the ball. Watson isn't on the same page with Brady on that play and the ball looks horribly mis-thrown. A lot of stuff happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand--receivers changing pace, direction, looking over a different shoulder than anticipated, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all that a new QB operating with backup receivers is going to have some miscommunication/timing for a while.

For comparison sake:

Matt Schaub 31-40 yards in the air--71.4% 40+ yards--50%
HWWNBN (career) 31-40 yards--39% 40+ yards--23%
Manning (the good one--last three years) 31-40 yards--65% 40+ yards--50%

Texans_Chick
10-19-2007, 10:08 AM
It is timing and accuracy, but it may not all be on the QB. Classic counter example from Brady last week. Watson down the middle with the DB tight on his left shoulder. Brady throws the ball to the left of the DB and then Watson breaks across the front of the DB and gets the ball. Watson isn't on the same page with Brady on that play and the ball looks horribly mis-thrown. A lot of stuff happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand--receivers changing pace, direction, looking over a different shoulder than anticipated, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all that a new QB operating with backup receivers is going to have some miscommunication/timing for a while.

True. Also, it is hard to say how Schaub's thigh bruise suffered a couple of weeks ago has affected his throwing. I've seen some wicked thigh bruises, and it's not like you just ran into the side of your desk or something. If they are bad enough, you can get a divot in your muscle and it kills you to walk

infantrycak
10-19-2007, 10:14 AM
True. Also, it is hard to say how Schaub's thigh bruise suffered a couple of weeks ago has affected his throwing. I've seen some wicked thigh bruises, and it's not like you just ran into the side of your desk or something. If they are bad enough, you can get a divot in your muscle and it kills you to walk

Kubiak said the bruise on his thigh was so bad blood had pooled down into his calf. Ouch.

76Texan
10-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Due to various reasons, and with the sample being so small, I think it's to early to really gauge Matt's long ball efficiency.

A Texan
10-20-2007, 01:59 PM
6'3" 215 is pretty nice size for a reciever. he's not fast, but he's not slow either. i can't find his 40 time anywhere but i'll bet it's not that much different from anyone else...i still think johnson, walter, jones give us the best mix of everything you want to see recievers doing. davis coughing up the ball twice at jacksonville is something i'll take my time in getting over.

Walter's 40 time is usually quoted as being in the mid 4.5's