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beerlover
10-16-2007, 04:09 AM
Do you feel RB is highly rated now on the Texans draft board? Would Kubiak spend a #1 on a RB even if he was not the bpa because of need? Here's a prospect out of Oregon people have been asking about name of Jonathan Stewart, here is his school profile-

http://goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3378&SPID=233&DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=177405&Q_SEASON=2007

If you were the GM/Coach of the Texans would you use the #1 pick in 08 (assuming he declares early) on this RB or other available around the middle of the first?

beerlover
10-16-2007, 12:11 PM
early on i see it as a bpa pick as long as bpa is an o'line, linebacker, rb, or a safety.

what about CB or DE?

i'd like to see a good rb on the texans next year. ahman is ahman, he'll get some yards but he just isn't a gamebreaker anymore. a rb to learn the skills and switch out with ahman would make our offense that much deadlier...maybe even deadly in the red zone...

I agree :)

but what specific skill set is missing from the Texans backfield? or is it heart, determination, intangibles? It seems for the running game to be successful the backs need to be more explosive hitting the holes, decisive in lane recognition & do a better job of keeping balance by using footwork/body lean to pick up extra yardage. instead of 2 yards on 1st & 10 they need to get 3 1/2 yards hitting the hole quicker with more determination will net you that, right now we don't have a back who can do that.

now how do you rate that as a need, or prioitize the rb position on this team with all the other needs? I guess thats why Rick Smith gets paid the big bucks & I'm confident he'll make the right assessment. This is just my humble opinion & beleive me its changed cause I was not on the RB bandwagon as a primary need (even though I'm on record last draft saying if Adrian Peterson somehow slipped to the Texans I would take him, but thats more a case of bpa) but the best way to take the heat off Schaub & the OL is to be able to run the ball effectively. upgrading the Center position with McKinney gone is also critical to the running game, if there is a stud Center available in the first round I'd take him & address RB via free agency (I've noticed you can't aquire really good Centers in FA but you can get RB's).

back to RB prospects this kid from Washington/Oregon is flying under the radar because of the system he plays in, with his strength, size & explosive speed Jonathan Stewart would certainly upgrade the position. of course I also want S Kenny Phillips, OT Ryan Clady, DE Derrick Harvey, CB Reggie Smith, LB James Laurinaitis ........LOL

Errant Hothy
10-16-2007, 12:25 PM
Jonathan Stewart is the guy I want (not surprising since I've been saying since April), unless somehow we wind up in a position to get MacFadden; and I don't think he is flying under anybody's radar. While Oregon has certain ly moved to a spread offense, Stewart had a great yeart last year in a more convetional offense.

YoungTexanFan
10-16-2007, 12:29 PM
what about CB or DE?



I agree :)

but what specific skill set is missing from the Texans backfield? or is it heart, determination, intangibles? It seems for the running game to be successful the backs need to be more explosive hitting the holes, decisive in lane recognition & do a better job of keeping balance by using footwork/body lean to pick up extra yardage. instead of 2 yards on 1st & 10 they need to get 3 1/2 yards hitting the hole quicker with more determination will net you that, right now we don't have a back who can do that.

now how do you rate that as a need, or prioitize the rb position on this team with all the other needs? I guess thats why Rick Smith gets paid the big bucks & I'm confident he'll make the right assessment. This is just my humble opinion & beleive me its changed cause I was not on the RB bandwagon as a primary need (even though I'm on record last draft saying if Adrian Peterson somehow slipped to the Texans I would take him, but thats more a case of bpa) but the best way to take the heat off Schaub & the OL is to be able to run the ball effectively. upgrading the Center position with McKinney gone is also critical to the running game, if there is a stud Center available in the first round I'd take him & address RB via free agency (I've noticed you can't aquire really good Centers in FA but you can get RB's).

back to RB prospects this kid from Washington/Oregon is flying under the radar because of the system he plays in, with his strength, size & explosive speed Jonathan Stewart would certainly upgrade the position. of course I also want S Kenny Phillips, OT Ryan Clady, DE Derrick Harvey, CB Reggie Smith, LB James Laurinaitis ........LOL

Love that wish list by the way, but would you leave Smith at CB? He seems to fit more into a FS role in the NFL to me right now.

On the topic of RB's, we just need a legit back. We don't need anymore steamrollers. We need a guy who can hit the right hole and make something happen. We need a RB that a LB can't chase down from behind. We need a true RB. I called before the season I wasn't expecting much out of Green, but honestly, he surprised me pre-injury. Regardless, he isn't our answer. I'm really high on Felix Jones out of Arkansas, but he may chose to stay for a better spot...though it's not like playing without McFadden and at Arkansas is going to help his chances of more money. I am not high on Slaton. I'm undecided on Stewart right now. I might look at someone like Mike Hart on the second day too.

beerlover
10-16-2007, 12:56 PM
Love that wish list by the way, but would you leave Smith at CB? He seems to fit more into a FS role in the NFL to me right now.

On the topic of RB's, we just need a legit back. We don't need anymore steamrollers. We need a guy who can hit the right hole and make something happen. We need a RB that a LB can't chase down from behind. We need a true RB. I called before the season I wasn't expecting much out of Green, but honestly, he surprised me pre-injury. Regardless, he isn't our answer. I'm really high on Felix Jones out of Arkansas, but he may chose to stay for a better spot...though it's not like playing without McFadden and at Arkansas is going to help his chances of more money. I am not high on Slaton. I'm undecided on Stewart right now. I might look at someone like Mike Hart on the second day too.

he has the size & some saftey experience already so FS might very well become his natural position in the NFL. :)

I've been very frustrated this year trying to catch Oregon/Jonathan Stewart, Dish has changed regions on me for some reason (I will make a call) so I've missed watching games, I think thats a problem for alot of us when it comes to a prospect out of area that makes it hard to eval :mail:

Farough
10-16-2007, 01:12 PM
I've said that he's the running back that we need since last years draft on the other board. He would be an upgrade to our backs and learn a great deal about playing in the NFL behind Amhan Green for the first few years.

gtexan02
10-16-2007, 01:15 PM
The problem is, we have 1 1st rounder, no 2nds, and 1 3rd rounder.

We REALLY need secondary help. Our defense is worse than our offense at this point. In order of needs, I'd say, assuming Fred Bennet becomes our #2 CB:

FS
LT
RB
C

And we only have 2 first day picks for those

Hervoyel
10-16-2007, 01:37 PM
There is not a doubt in my mind that Gary Kubiak would draft a RB in the first round if he thought that he needed one. Why this belief persists that Kubiak would never do this I cannot begin to understand.

He tried to do it in his first draft as Texans coach when he attempted to trade back up into the first round to get DeAngelo Williams. He failed and nobody is upset that we got DeMeco Ryans instead but there it is, he tried to do it.

The first round we'll look at positions of need and take the highest rated guy among those players or among all positions if a highly rated player outside of our "most needed" spots happen to fall to us - with very few exceptions. I expect we'd pass on QB, DE/DT, TE, possibly WR.

beerlover
10-16-2007, 01:47 PM
The problem is, we have 1 1st rounder, no 2nds, and 1 3rd rounder.

We REALLY need secondary help. Our defense is worse than our offense at this point. In order of needs, I'd say, assuming Fred Bennet becomes our #2 CB:

FS
LT
RB
C

And we only have 2 first day picks for those

your right thats not alot to work with, lets slot our 3rd rd. pick on a Center. that leaves one pick between RB, LT & CB/FS. LT is gonna be real hard to address via FA or costly in a trade. top tier CB's are just plain expensive, do we even have salary cap room? would you be happy if the Texans/Kubiak continue to run out RB's by committe & pass on a true franchise back?

here is hoping, no praying Spencer can return that would solve our LT position. that Bennett does in fact continue to develop alongside fellow gamecock Dunta Robinson w/Von Hutchins (2nd on team in tackles) @ FS.

not bad, well not as grievous to me as our RB situation. without a running game the Texans will continue to struggle in the red zone, at least until Andre comes back. the Texans say they are committed to running the ball, listening to Kubiak yesterday he remains very positive about Ahman Green & that he is now 100% healthy, I hope he's right...we'll see but maybe its time to invest a #1 pick on a RB http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6988308899378179196&q=Jonathan+Stewart&total=4745&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

bah007
10-16-2007, 03:09 PM
Love that wish list by the way, but would you leave Smith at CB? He seems to fit more into a FS role in the NFL to me right now.

On the topic of RB's, we just need a legit back. We don't need anymore steamrollers. We need a guy who can hit the right hole and make something happen. We need a RB that a LB can't chase down from behind. We need a true RB. I called before the season I wasn't expecting much out of Green, but honestly, he surprised me pre-injury. Regardless, he isn't our answer. I'm really high on Felix Jones out of Arkansas, but he may chose to stay for a better spot...though it's not like playing without McFadden and at Arkansas is going to help his chances of more money. I am not high on Slaton. I'm undecided on Stewart right now. I might look at someone like Mike Hart on the second day too.

I dont see Hart falling to day 2.

He's not physically imposing, he's not incredibly fast, but he never fumbles & he just gets it done.

You cant put a price on intangibles & Hart leads the pack in that area, guaranteed.

Ole Miss Texan
10-16-2007, 03:22 PM
Jonathan Stewart looks like a beast and if we select him in the first I wouldn't be upset one bit.

However, I'm not so sure we would select him strictly out of need. FS (Reggie Smith?), LT (Barry Richardson?), OLB (Dan Connor?) are other potential needs that could be BPA. It depends how the Texans grade these players, well and others, and who's available. If they think a FS or a OLB is a better pick than Stewart...I don't think they'd go with the RB.

I'm just very upset with our OL right now and think we gotta strengthen that. If Spencer doesn't come back and take over the LT position- we're screwed next season. Plain and simple...if spencer can't do it... our passing game and running game will not be very good even with Green & Stewart combination.

Could be a good year to trade down and pick up extra pick(s), and just select a real quality player. Trade farther down in the first and grab a 2nd or 3rd rder...and take the BPA at that point.

real
10-16-2007, 03:23 PM
I think in the first we need to take BPA from the following positions:

FS
CB
RB
OLB
LT
C

Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

I'd take the OLB. Then I'd try to trade a 3rd and a 5th for a mid second rounder or something, and pick up the best RB available....That way I'd have Green, and that RB then I'd let Chris Taylor, Gado, Dayne, and Walker battle for the last 1 or two spots.


I'm not thinking we are not going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

But of course this is October. I could be wrong.

YoungTexanFan
10-16-2007, 03:49 PM
I think in the first we need to take BPA from the following positions:

FS
CB
RB
OLB
LT
C

Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

I'd take the OLB. Then I'd try to trade a 3rd and a 5th for a mid second rounder or something, and pick up the best RB available....That way I'd have Green, and that RB then I'd let Chris Taylor, Gado, Dayne, and Walker battle for the last 1 or two spots.


I'm not thinking we are going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

But of course this is October. I could be wrong.

I actually agree for the most part. I'm not really keen on giving up the picks for a RB, but we almost need to it seems. I'm really in favor of opening the wallet for a FA CB. I actually think the FO is comfortable with the OT's we have, and I am really in favor of letting Winston have a shot at LT when Spencer either fails to make it back or fails to be what everyone wants. We need a true C, but we can't really afford one honestly. We need so much help, but a 6th round project C isn't going to work for us.

beerlover
10-16-2007, 04:04 PM
I think in the first we need to take BPA from the following positions:

FS
CB
RB
OLB
LT
C

Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

I'd take the OLB. Then I'd try to trade a 3rd and a 5th for a mid second rounder or something, and pick up the best RB available....That way I'd have Green, and that RB then I'd let Chris Taylor, Gado, Dayne, and Walker battle for the last 1 or two spots.


I'm not thinking we are going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

But of course this is October. I could be wrong.

you bring up two good points- Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

unless there is a LT on the rise (last year Joe Staley) or a FS/CB who slips I think your right.

I'm not thinking we are going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

it says they know they got a problem & have thrown everything but the kitchen sink (1st rd. pick) to solve it.

& theres one thing that supports the Texans addressing the offense first this year because the last FOUR DRAFTS the Texans have used their #1 pick on defense. hence by process of elimination its a RB that helps Schaub, the offensive line & helps reduce the defense time on the field.

beerlover
10-16-2007, 04:48 PM
enough opinion before leaving for work I'm going to do some research comparing the bpa with where the RB's where selected according to OURLADS over the past three drafts-

2005

9.59 (rated #1) Ronnie Brown - selected #2
9.49 (rated #6) Carnell Williams - selected #5
9.39 (rated #9) Cedric Benson - selected #4
4.99 (rated 172) Frank Gore - selected #65

2006

9.65 (rated #1) Reggie Bush - selected #2
9.44 (rated #10) Lendale White - selected #45
9.40 (rated #14) DeAngelo Williams - selected #27
9.38 (rated #16) Laurence Maroney - selected #21
8.69 (rated #53) Joseph Addai - selected #30
6.94 (rated #99) Maurice Drew - selected 60

2007

9.59 (rated #3) Adrian Peterson - selected #7
9.24 (rated #15) Marshawn Lynch - selected #12

summary

one. even the best draft service is not perfect
two. teams have a better idea who fits their system
three. teams do draft RB based on need, regardless of rating

gtexan02
10-16-2007, 09:23 PM
enough opinion before leaving for work I'm going to do some research comparing the bpa with where the RB's where selected according to OURLADS over the past three drafts-

2005

9.59 (rated #1) Ronnie Brown - selected #2
9.49 (rated #6) Carnell Williams - selected #5
9.39 (rated #9) Cedric Benson - selected #4
4.99 (rated 172) Frank Gore - selected #65

2006

9.65 (rated #1) Reggie Bush - selected #2
9.44 (rated #10) Lendale White - selected #45
9.40 (rated #14) DeAngelo Williams - selected #27
9.38 (rated #16) Laurence Maroney - selected #21
8.69 (rated #53) Joseph Addai - selected #30
6.94 (rated #99) Maurice Drew - selected 60

2007

9.59 (rated #3) Adrian Peterson - selected #7
9.24 (rated #15) Marshawn Lynch - selected #12

summary

one. even the best draft service is not perfect
two. teams have a better idea who fits their system
three. teams do draft RB based on need, regardless of rating

four. 2006 was an insane year for running backs

infantrycak
10-17-2007, 12:07 AM
three. teams do draft RB based on need, regardless of rating

How are you differentiating drafting on need v. a team having a much different evaluation of who was bpa?

beerlover
10-17-2007, 02:24 AM
How are you differentiating drafting on need v. a team having a much different evaluation of who was bpa?

standard deviation +/- from general consensus value to actual real value of the pick. Bush & Peterson would be BPA (-) both drafted lower than rated while Joseph Addai & Maruice Drew (+) taken higher than projected.

real
10-17-2007, 02:27 AM
How do you know where that team actually had said player ranked on their draft board ?

BPA to one team may not be BPA to another team...?

infantrycak
10-17-2007, 09:58 AM
standard deviation +/- from general consensus value to actual real value of the pick. Bush & Peterson would be BPA (-) both drafted lower than rated while Joseph Addai & Maruice Drew (+) taken higher than projected.

How do you know where that team actually had said player ranked on their draft board ?

BPA to one team may not be BPA to another team...?

That's what I was getting at. The fact that Addai was taken higher than draftniks projected (i.e. depending on the draftnik something between throwing a dart at the wall and an educated guess) says nothing about the Colts' draft board. They may have had him ranked even higher than where they took him and in their minds were getting a draft steal on value rather than pushing a need. A Texans' example may be DeMeco Ryans who they had ranked as a mid-late 1st rounder who they didn't expect to be there but many draft sites had going lower than where we took him.

Ole Miss Texan
10-17-2007, 10:22 AM
A Texans' example may be DeMeco Ryans who they had ranked as a mid-late 1st rounder who they didn't expect to be there but many draft sites had going lower than where we took him.

Thanks infantrycak....this really excites me and made my day better. We got such a steal!!

beerlover
10-17-2007, 11:32 AM
this applies to all positions of course, but throw in a little common sense. everyone knew the Colts where unloading Edge & needed a replacement. from what I've seen you could plug almost any RB in that system with that line & still be effective. if the Colts didn't use their 1st rd. pick on him the draft board suggests he'd be gone by the second rd. (#62) or they would have had to trade up (since he was rated @ that point in the draft as the best RB available, thats different than bpa).

speaking of DeMeco Ryans, the Texans took him @ #33 well ourlads had him rated #27 Charles Spencer taken by the Texans @ #65 was rated #35 you could make a stronger case that he was the bpa but as we all know both filled huge needs.

Errant Hothy
10-17-2007, 11:36 AM
You need to stop confussing Ourlads'/any draft service's rankings with team's draftboards.

It's been pretty obvious over the years that the teams are much, much better at evaluating talent then the draft service's are.

beerlover
10-17-2007, 11:50 AM
You need to stop confussing Ourlads'/any draft service's rankings with team's draftboards.

It's been pretty obvious over the years that the teams are much, much better at evaluating talent then the draft service's are.

did I not say they where not perfect :ok:

also stated that teams do a much better job knowing who fits their systems better & what they really need, but thanks for your :twocents:

real
10-17-2007, 11:52 AM
this applies to all positions of course, but throw in a little common sense. everyone knew the Colts where unloading Edge & needed a replacement. from what I've seen you could plug almost any RB in that system with that line & still be effective. if the Colts didn't use their 1st rd. pick on him the draft board suggests he'd be gone by the second rd. (#62) or they would have had to trade up (since he was rated @ that point in the draft as the best RB available, thats different than bpa).


I don't understand how you come to these conclusions....

Just look at the top of the '06 draft for instance...

We took Mario over Reggie and D-Brick....Two positions that one might have argued we needed more help at....

The Saints took RB....Clearly a position they didn't need....

And then the Titans took VY over Matt Leinart...Many people had Leinart as the the best overall QB in the draft, but the Titans liked VY...

And then to top it all off...Leinart fell all the way to ten while being passed by three teams that needed a QB...Oakland, Buffalo, and Detroit...

What seems like a "common sense" pick to one person may not be a smart pick to someone else...I just think it's all relative to that individual team...

Errant Hothy
10-17-2007, 11:58 AM
did I not say they where not perfect :ok:

also stated that teams do a much better job knowing who fits their systems better & what they really need, but thanks for your :twocents:

Fair enough. It's just you seem to base alot of your posts on where Ourlad's had a player ranked and I think that leads to flawed conclussions.

badboy
10-17-2007, 01:47 PM
The problem is, we have 1 1st rounder, no 2nds, and 1 3rd rounder.

We REALLY need secondary help. Our defense is worse than our offense at this point. In order of needs, I'd say, assuming Fred Bennet becomes our #2 CB:

FS
LT
RB
C

And we only have 2 first day picks for thoseSign Assante Samuel for your CB in Free Agency move Bennett (4.45 speed) to FS. Sign RB in first and LT in 3rd or vice versa. 4th round grab best center available. 5th best OLB. IMO FA does not offer any RBs to solve our problem and probably no unrestirctive LT will be available.

Our problem is not getting to red zone. 30% completion of getting INTO RZ is issue. Green, Dayne nor Gado has been the answer. I was hopeful Leach and TEs would score more. Wrong.

Goldensilence
10-17-2007, 02:06 PM
Sign Assante Samuel for your CB in Free Agency move Bennett (4.45 speed) to FS. Sign RB in first and LT in 3rd or vice versa. 4th round grab best center available. 5th best OLB. IMO FA does not offer any RBs to solve our problem and probably no unrestirctive LT will be available.

Our problem is not getting to red zone. 30% completion of getting INTO RZ is issue. Green, Dayne nor Gado has been the answer. I was hopeful Leech and TEs would score more. Wrong.

Sorry but what is some posters here obession with moving a CB to safety? I don't like the idea at all.Few CBs really successfully make that transition or have the size to. Rod Woodson is one of the few exceptions off the top of my head.

Say it once and again I don't trust players post NE. Some palyers have cashed in and done very little to date after moving on while the Pats seem to plug in someone else and still are successful. People talk about system players coming out of college i guess it's the same way with NE schemeing (at least in my mind)..

We need to go either LT or RB first round. I also wouldn't mind a great OLB. I think that would really help our defense out.

I'd rather go after Asomaugh from Oakland if we're going FA CB. Quentin Jammmer Will be availble.There not really any big name LB's available that i know of.Looking at the FA list as of right now no one jumps out.

Great teams build through the draft and hire FA guns when needed.

badboy
10-17-2007, 02:24 PM
you bring up two good points-

unless there is a LT on the rise (last year Joe Staley) or a FS/CB who slips I think your right. STALEY WAS KNOWN TO HAVE A WEAK POINT OF ATTACK AND WAS NOT A GOOD RUN BLOCKING TACKLE. WITH OUR SCHEME, HE DID NOT LEAP OFF THE PAGE AS WHAT WE NEEDED. SUPPOSEDLY LTs WILL BE AVAILABLE WHEN WE PICK IN FIRST IF TEAM DECIDES TO GO THERE.



it says they know they got a problem & have thrown everything but the kitchen sink (1st rd. pick) to solve it.

& theres one thing that supports the Texans addressing the offense first this year because the last FOUR DRAFTS the Texans have used their #1 pick on defense. hence by process of elimination its a RB that helps Schaub, the offensive line & helps reduce the defense time on the field.SAME ARGUMENT COULD HAVE BEEN USED LAST DRAFT (AND WAS BY ME) BUT GUESS WHO GOT DRAFTED?

badboy
10-17-2007, 02:35 PM
Sorry but what is some posters here obession with moving a CB to safety? I don't like the idea at all.Few CBs really successfully make that transition or have the size to. Rod Woodson is one of the few exceptions off the top of my head.

Say it once and again I don't trust players post NE. Some palyers have cashed in and done very little to date after moving on while the Pats seem to plug in someone else and still are successful. People talk about system players coming out of college i guess it's the same way with NE schemeing (at least in my mind)..

We need to go either LT or RB first round. I also wouldn't mind a great OLB. I think that would really help our defense out.

I'd rather go after Asomaugh from Oakland if we're going FA CB. Quentin Jammmer Will be availble.There not really any big name LB's available that i know of.Looking at the FA list as of right now no one jumps out.

Great teams build through the draft and hire FA guns when needed.

No obsession on my part on moving a CB to FS. There is a hole, I offer a suggestion. Sounds as if the obession is yours on refusing to consider the idea. FYI Fred Bennett is 6' 2" 227 lbs and 4.45 40 speed. He has the build to play safety and more importantly speed and ability to hit. I'm ok with him at CB, but you can buy a very good CB this off season with the $30 million in cap space and still maybe pick up another need or two.

Goldensilence
10-17-2007, 02:45 PM
No obsession on my part on moving a CB to FS. There is a hole, I offer a suggestion. Sounds as if the obession is yours on refusing to consider the idea. FYI Fred Bennett is 6' 2" 227 lbs and 4.45 40 speed. He has the build to play safety and more importantly speed and ability to hit. I'm ok with him at CB, but you can buy a very good CB this off season with the $30 million in cap space and still maybe pick up another need or two.

Hence the use of the word SOME. I've seen suggestions on moving Dunta over there. I just haven't seen a high success ratio of guys making an impact jumping the spot. Unless we've forgotten the Coleman jump.I'm not refusing. I just plain don't like the idea and don't see why it keeps geting floated.

I'm still not sure if Richard Smith has a grasp on what he wants to do defensively.

Errant Hothy
10-17-2007, 03:00 PM
Sign Assante Samuel for your CB in Free Agency move Bennett (4.45 speed) to FS. Sign RB in first and LT in 3rd or vice versa. 4th round grab best center available. 5th best OLB. IMO FA does not offer any RBs to solve our problem and probably no unrestirctive LT will be available.

Our problem is not getting to red zone. 30% completion of getting INTO RZ is issue. Green, Dayne nor Gado has been the answer. I was hopeful Leach and TEs would score more. Wrong.

If moving Bennett to FS was an option don't you think it would have made a tons more sense to have him start at FS from Day 1 of the rookie camp? Why spend a year coaching him on CB technigues to then just move him to FS a year later.

beerlover
10-17-2007, 03:03 PM
SAME ARGUMENT COULD HAVE BEEN USED LAST DRAFT (AND WAS BY ME) BUT GUESS WHO GOT DRAFTED?

If we beleive what was said "Amobi Okoye was the #1 defensive player on their board" & bpa I have no problem with it (the week of the draft I had the Texans selecting him too) because I'm suspicious of the need to prove the Mario pick overwhelming case not so far fetched- this is excatly where need(s) = bpa

Personally I wanted a LT, yall know who but he was taken #5 overall, now it remains to be seen how that particular group develops as a whole the rest of the season into the combine, I'm not sold on any as of yet. If it where today & I could be resonably assured the Texans where picking, say late teens, if a RB was rated high enough on the Texans board vs. a LT similarly rated as bpa the Texans should take the RB. I know this is a departure but this is a different QB, a different group of players & the inability to run the ball is @ the central core of the problem along with stronger Center play that Vinny had mentioned at least two years ago & its only getting worse with McKinney gone. those are two huge gapping holes/needs that bpa or not if a close enough deviation warrents should become the overriding factor. I figured posting ourlads numbers would suggest the varibility of draft board to draft board & that bpa is merely a figment of any teams imagination thats fluid up & into the actual draft itself :cool:

badboy
10-17-2007, 05:11 PM
Hence the use of the word SOME. I've seen suggestions on moving Dunta over there. I just haven't seen a high success ratio of guys making an impact jumping the spot. Unless we've forgotten the Coleman jump.I'm not refusing. I just plain don't like the idea and don't see why it keeps geting floated.

I'm still not sure if Richard Smith has a grasp on what he wants to do defensively.Since you quoted my post and then said obsession I thought you meant me. I can understand that some CBs should not be moved to safety, but it is done. I think Dunte, Samuel, Bennett and best of SS on roster could be a formidable back field. Especially if my suggestion resolves two positions and does not entail a draft pick.

badboy
10-17-2007, 05:15 PM
If moving Bennett to FS was an option don't you think it would have made a tons more sense to have him start at FS from Day 1 of the rookie camp? Why spend a year coaching him on CB technigues to then just move him to FS a year later.Bennett is not an option at FS unless we plug hole @ CB. By signing a FA of Samuel's caliber, CB is no longer a need. Most think Faggins can handle nickle and Bennett size and speed can move him to another hole Free safety.

Errant Hothy
10-17-2007, 05:36 PM
Bennett is not an option at FS unless we plug hole @ CB. By signing a FA of Samuel's caliber, CB is no longer a need. Most think Faggins can handle nickle and Bennett size and speed can move him to another hole Free safety.

Like I said, if the team wanted to or thought they could move Bennett to FS why would they not do it from Day 1 of rookie camps? It's not like Kubiak and company wern't telling us how good they thought Petey was going to be at the #2 CB spot.

This idea that you can move a CB to FS is getting out of control. First it was Robinson, now it's Bennett. Doesn't anybody remember how poorly Coleman played as a FS. A big CB does not equal a good FS. Guys who can play S and guys who can player CB are two very different players.

FYI, Samuel's goiong to be looking to be the highest paid CB in the league in the offseason; and I don't h in khe will be worth that kind of money.

bah007
10-17-2007, 06:01 PM
No obsession on my part on moving a CB to FS. There is a hole, I offer a suggestion. Sounds as if the obession is yours on refusing to consider the idea. FYI Fred Bennett is 6' 2" 227 lbs and 4.45 40 speed. He has the build to play safety and more importantly speed and ability to hit. I'm ok with him at CB, but you can buy a very good CB this off season with the $30 million in cap space and still maybe pick up another need or two.

Just FYI, but Fred Bennett is only 6-0 & 197 lbs, unless he has put on 30 lbs since the season started.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=10566

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=287

Ryan
10-17-2007, 07:16 PM
Assuming that we can get a 100% Charles Spencer back, my draft priorities are

FS
RB
C
OLB
CB

badboy
10-18-2007, 12:11 PM
Just FYI, but Fred Bennett is only 6-0 & 197 lbs, unless he has put on 30 lbs since the season started.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=10566

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=287
You are correct. I had his size and speed hand written on the list of draft picks & can't recall where I got 227, but it was wrong. I hesitated (for what that's worth) when I typed my post, but was in hurry and should have researched. Still my point is his size is more than enough to play FS and he does have speed of a corner.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-18-2007, 12:13 PM
You are correct. I had his size and speed hand written on the list of draft picks & can't recall where I got 227, but it was wrong. I hesitated (for what that's worth) when I typed my post, but was in hurry and should have researched. Still my point is his size is more than enough to play FS and he does have speed of a corner.



You were probably thinking of Brandon Harrison.

badboy
10-18-2007, 12:14 PM
Like I said, if the team wanted to or thought they could move Bennett to FS why would they not do it from Day 1 of rookie camps? It's not like Kubiak and company wern't telling us how good they thought Petey was going to be at the #2 CB spot.

This idea that you can move a CB to FS is getting out of control. First it was Robinson, now it's Bennett. Doesn't anybody remember how poorly Coleman played as a FS. A big CB does not equal a good FS. Guys who can play S and guys who can player CB are two very different players.

FYI, Samuel's goiong to be looking to be the highest paid CB in the league in the offseason; and I don't h in khe will be worth that kind of money.And as I have said, Bennett was not drafted to be a safety. Abbatte was signed for one positioned and played at FB. Not all cbs can play S or vice versa. Bennett may be one that can adjust. Why not consider it? Especially if you lock up CB in FA?

infantrycak
10-18-2007, 12:21 PM
You are correct. I had his size and speed hand written on the list of draft picks & can't recall where I got 227, but it was wrong. I hesitated (for what that's worth) when I typed my post, but was in hurry and should have researched. Still my point is his size is more than enough to play FS and he does have speed of a corner.

You're thinking of Brandon Harrison.

Edit--oops, beat to the punch.

Errant Hothy
10-18-2007, 12:26 PM
And as I have said, Bennett was not drafted to be a safety. Abbatte was signed for one positioned and played at FB. Not all cbs can play S or vice versa. Bennett may be one that can adjust. Why not consider it? Especially if you lock up CB in FA?

IF, and I say once again if, the team thought that Bennett could possible be the answer at Fs, why would they have drafted Harrison in the next round? Why would they not have moved Bennett to FS at the start of rookie camps, and not waste a year at CB (and possible having to contridict everything you coached into him this year)?

All I am saying that it is obvious that the team, who know more about the players and their abilities then you or I combined, has shown nothing that would lead anybody to believe that Bennett will play anywhere but CB. Add to that how much Kubiak thought of Faggins at the start of the season, and the team still never considered moving Bennett (as evident by the fact that he got ZERO reps at any position besides CB).

If you think moving from LB to FB is the same as moving from CB to FS...then good for you. I don't think the comparisoon is even remotly similar.

Also Samuel is not going to be worth the amount of money it will cost to sign him.

Clmon guys, how aften to do see a team move a young CB to FS? And when it does happen how often does it work? There is a difference between drafting a college CB to play FS (whichi does work), and moving a rookie CB to FS (which does not happen all that often).

badboy
10-18-2007, 01:01 PM
IF, and I say once again if, the team thought that Bennett could possible be the answer at Fs, why would they have drafted Harrison in the next round? Why would they not have moved Bennett to FS at the start of rookie camps, and not waste a year at CB (and possible having to contridict everything you coached into him this year)?

All I am saying that it is obvious that the team, who know more about the players and their abilities then you or I combined, has shown nothing that would lead anybody to believe that Bennett will play anywhere but CB. Add to that how much Kubiak thought of Faggins at the start of the season, and the team still never considered moving Bennett (as evident by the fact that he got ZERO reps at any position besides CB).

If you think moving from LB to FB is the same as moving from CB to FS...then good for you. I don't think the comparisoon is even remotly similar.

Also Samuel is not going to be worth the amount of money it will cost to sign him.

Clmon guys, how aften to do see a team move a young CB to FS? And when it does happen how often does it work? There is a difference between drafting a college CB to play FS (whichi does work), and moving a rookie CB to FS (which does not happen all that often).

Hothboy, we just ain't connecting today. I NEVER said he was drafted to play free safety. He was selected to be a corner and has been training for that. Does that mean he can NEVER play safety? NO. There are several options for next season. One of those I presented was moving a big fast Bennett to FS as I think he will be better than anyone we now have. If successful that eliminates using a pick on FS. We only do that move IF we get a CB such as Samuel in free agency. CB & FS two large holes would then be filled with NO loss of draft picks. We could the use 1st and third to fill holes at RB and LT best avail or whatever. Most teams do not take a center day one. There is a reason for that. I am not saying it can't be done just that it usually is not. 4th round go center, again resolving a weakness. (If Chris White works out use the 4th for another area. I know he's short but so was Mark Stepnowski) 5th I can see going for OLB.

beerlover
10-18-2007, 01:37 PM
ironic that the Texans traded their original 4th rd. pick (#107) to N.O. who wound up being a RB (Antonio Pittman) on a thread about the Texans drafting a RB :rofl:

Antonio Pittman was ranked 3rd overall (8.75) among the 07 RB class according to OURLADS, 42 overall. did N.O. have him @ the top of their board as bpa? is that the reason they where willing to give up the extra pick to move up & take him or was it out of need?

anyway they ended up releasing him during their final roster cuts & he wound up in St. Louis & so far not much production to show for it. so in essence the Texans wound up with a young CB who is now getting some playing time & a young OL to develop while N.O. has nothing to show for their 07 4th & 5th rd. picks.

another point & a real concern to me at least is evaluation of the RB position. obvious N.O. & ourlads missed something about Pittman. to me he lacked measureables & was a product of the system @ Ohio State. once in a while you can find a Maurice Drew later in the draft but when it comes to a sure thing & addressing this need its best to address it early, 1st rd. early. heck if there is a chink in the New England Patriots its the fact their running backs are all injured or less than 100%. you need quality depth at this position at least two studs to limit wear & tear if nothing else to keep both healthy.

rollinstone18
10-18-2007, 02:33 PM
I'd like to know what the scouts of this board think of Cory Boyd. He seems like a solid 3rd round pick.

Errant Hothy
10-18-2007, 03:13 PM
Hothboy, we just ain't connecting today. I NEVER said he was drafted to play free safety. He was selected to be a corner and has been training for that. Does that mean he can NEVER play safety? NO. There are several options for next season. One of those I presented was moving a big fast Bennett to FS as I think he will be better than anyone we now have. If successful that eliminates using a pick on FS. We only do that move IF we get a CB such as Samuel in free agency. CB & FS two large holes would then be filled with NO loss of draft picks. We could the use 1st and third to fill holes at RB and LT best avail or whatever. Most teams do not take a center day one. There is a reason for that. I am not saying it can't be done just that it usually is not. 4th round go center, again resolving a weakness. (If Chris White works out use the 4th for another area. I know he's short but so was Mark Stepnowski) 5th I can see going for OLB.

Maybe, but I just don't believe that you can move many players from CB to FS the positions are very different and reguire differnt kind of players. Regardless of what the team does in FA I don't want to find out if Bennett can do it. I think there is a real chance that movinig Bennett to FS may hurt his development as a CB, and CB's are worth more and are harder to find then FS's.

I'm also a little tired of the whole "we can move a CB to FS to fix our FS issues" idea. First is was suggested with Dunta Robinson, now it's Fred Bennett. The idea is gettting up there with the VY v Reggie debates from 06.

Regardless of what the team does, I don't think there is any chance that the team moves Bennett to FS. IF they felt he could play FS at all, I'm sure they (the coaches) would be getting him some reps or they would have already moved him.

Bennett is a CB, leave him as a CB.

And you might wnat to give up the Samuel pipe dream. I doubt Rick Smith will offer the kind of money the Samuel wants, and will get from somebody other then the Texans. Why not go after Ricardo Cocleagh(sp?) from Pittsburgh?

76Texan
10-18-2007, 05:03 PM
I'd like to know what the scouts of this board think of Cory Boyd. He seems like a solid 3rd round pick.

What was the problem in the game against LSU?
I didn't have a chance to watch it.

badboy
10-18-2007, 05:05 PM
Maybe, but I just don't believe that you can move many players from CB to FS the positions are very different and reguire differnt kind of players. Regardless of what the team does in FA I don't want to find out if Bennett can do it. I think there is a real chance that movinig Bennett to FS may hurt his development as a CB, and CB's are worth more and are harder to find then FS's.

I'm also a little tired of the whole "we can move a CB to FS to fix our FS issues" idea. First is was suggested with Dunta Robinson, now it's Fred Bennett. The idea is gettting up there with the VY v Reggie debates from 06.

Regardless of what the team does, I don't think there is any chance that the team moves Bennett to FS. IF they felt he could play FS at all, I'm sure they (the coaches) would be getting him some reps or they would have already moved him.

Bennett is a CB, leave him as a CB.

And you might wnat to give up the Samuel pipe dream. I doubt Rick Smith will offer the kind of money the Samuel wants, and will get from somebody other then the Texans. Why not go after Ricardo Cocleagh(sp?) from Pittsburgh?

Ricardo Colclough 5'11" 195 25yoa
http://news.steelers.com/team/player/49205/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6797/career
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5563

Tell me why you want this guy? I realize he will probably be cheap.

Errant Hothy
10-18-2007, 05:26 PM
Ricardo Colclough 5'11" 195 25yoa
http://news.steelers.com/team/player/49205/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6797/career
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5563

Tell me why you want this guy? I realize he will probably be cheap.

He's played in a 3-4, which puts it's Cbs on an island. He would be a good #2 CB. Cost, because Samuel is going to want to be the highest paid DB in the NFL and I don't think he is worth it.

I've just been looking over who might be available in the offseason, and who might come at a reasonable price.

I think Samuel is a pipe-dream.

Nevermind. Ricardo isn't free till next year. :gun:

rmartin65
10-18-2007, 05:43 PM
If we cant get a RB early, I want Danny Woodhead from Chadron State on the second day. Legit 4.4 speed (could probably get faster), and 5'7" 200 pounds. Jones-Drew is 5'7" 208 pounds. He would be a good back for the "system" we seem to be running. He also has good hands out of the backfield.
http://www2.csc.edu/athletics/news/images/aWoodhead_dsc3502_lowres.jpg

beerlover
10-18-2007, 06:19 PM
If we cant get a RB early, I want Danny Woodhead from Chadron State on the second day. Legit 4.4 speed (could probably get faster), and 5'7" 200 pounds. Jones-Drew is 5'7" 208 pounds. He would be a good back for the "system" we seem to be running. He also has good hands out of the backfield.
http://www2.csc.edu/athletics/news/images/aWoodhead_dsc3502_lowres.jpg

thats excatly what I'm afraid of. bypassing elite 1st rd. talent & addressing need in the 6th or 7th rd. its not anything against this or any other late rd. RB prospect its more about the odds of them actually panning out, not just making the roster or practice squad but becoming the starter- bottom line a clear upgrade over what we have.

76Texan
10-18-2007, 06:28 PM
Well, Gil Brandt seems to like him.

rmartin65
10-18-2007, 08:09 PM
thats excatly what I'm afraid of. bypassing elite 1st rd. talent & addressing need in the 6th or 7th rd. its not anything against this or any other late rd. RB prospect its more about the odds of them actually panning out, not just making the roster or practice squad but becoming the starter- bottom line a clear upgrade over what we have.

Oh, I agree. I definately want a first round guy. Slaton or Stewart it sounds like. But if they pass on the first round or two, that is who I want.


Well, Gil Brandt seems to like him.

Really? Where did you see that? I have heard other people, but not Brandt. Cool

76Texan
10-19-2007, 12:29 AM
USA Today, NY Times, looks like they both quote from the same source:

"He's just a phenomenal player," Gil Brandt, a former Dallas Cowboys vice president of player personnel and an analyst for NFL.com, says of Woodhead. "I feel certain that somebody will draft him."

Because of his size, Woodhead is most likely to get NFL consideration as a third-down back and/or kick returner, although he hasn't returned kicks at Chadron State.

Ole Miss Texan
10-19-2007, 01:09 AM
If we go with a LT or a FS in the 1st round....what RB's should we be looking at for the 3rd round?

There seems to be a decent # of guys that are interesting. McFadden and Stewart seem like the only guys that are 1st round locks at this point. Then there's Slaton, Hart, etc.

Dontrell Savage from Ok St is a guy i've been impressed with. What about allen patrick from oklahoma? Any chance these guys make it past the 2nd for our pick in the 3rd?

There just seems to be a lot of RB's this year that the first DAY will be littered with decent backs....and only 2 superb guys that we may not have a shot at either of them.

Errant Hothy
10-19-2007, 12:33 PM
If we go with a LT or a FS in the 1st round....what RB's should we be looking at for the 3rd round?

There seems to be a decent # of guys that are interesting. McFadden and Stewart seem like the only guys that are 1st round locks at this point. Then there's Slaton, Hart, etc.
Dontrell Savage from Ok St is a guy i've been impressed with. What about allen patrick from oklahoma? Any chance these guys make it past the 2nd for our pick in the 3rd?

There just seems to be a lot of RB's this year that the first DAY will be littered with decent backs....and only 2 superb guys that we may not have a shot at either of them.

Hart and Rice will go in the 1st round as well, as could Slaton.

rmartin65
10-19-2007, 02:05 PM
USA Today, NY Times, looks like they both quote from the same source:

"He's just a phenomenal player," Gil Brandt, a former Dallas Cowboys vice president of player personnel and an analyst for NFL.com, says of Woodhead. "I feel certain that somebody will draft him."

Because of his size, Woodhead is most likely to get NFL consideration as a third-down back and/or kick returner, although he hasn't returned kicks at Chadron State.

Cool. On a side note, he got injured last night.
http://www.theindependent.com/stories/10192007/spo_spowoodhead19.shtml

badboy
10-19-2007, 02:31 PM
He's played in a 3-4, which puts it's Cbs on an island. He would be a good #2 CB. Cost, because Samuel is going to want to be the highest paid DB in the NFL and I don't think he is worth it.

I've just been looking over who might be available in the offseason, and who might come at a reasonable price.

I think Samuel is a pipe-dream.

Nevermind. Ricardo isn't free till next year. :gun:Concerning Samuel
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6456
He has 3 ints in 6 games projected to 8 ints. Is that worth $15m/year? How would having him opposite Dunte effect Mr. R? Teams go away from him now but with a Samuel sitting over there? I think you could easily reduce seven points against you from every game. That I agree is a lot of coin, but we have $30m for 2008. Now will GM ok the expediture? That may be another story.

badboy
10-19-2007, 02:52 PM
USA Today, NY Times, looks like they both quote from the same source:

"He's just a phenomenal player," Gil Brandt, a former Dallas Cowboys vice president of player personnel and an analyst for NFL.com, says of Woodhead. "I feel certain that somebody will draft him."

Because of his size, Woodhead is most likely to get NFL consideration as a third-down back and/or kick returner, although he hasn't returned kicks at Chadron State.I do not want anymore 3rd down backs who can return. How about stepping up and drafting a go to RB?

76Texan
10-19-2007, 05:04 PM
Cool. On a side note, he got injured last night.
http://www.theindependent.com/stories/10192007/spo_spowoodhead19.shtml
I know! It so happened that I caught the game to see of there's any chance he can be like Newhouse of the old Cowboys or MJD. Only one play, but it doesn't seem like his built and running style is like either one of them.

So, like badboy says, I don't think we can use him.

If we need to replace Mathis, we'd probably be better off with Anthony Alridge (Houston Cougars). He's good at returning KO, sub 4.30 speed.
Good hands, can catch the ball out of the backfield or as a receiver.
Has good second burst, and can make people miss.
They are starting to run him between tackles some, with good results.
(Last year, the Cougars use jackie Battle for uphill running).

He had good games against Oregon and Alabama already.
Ducks: 22-224 yds, TD; 3 catches-88 yds, TD; 1 KO RT 32 yd
Tides: 17-106 yds; 7 catches-94 yds, TD; 1 KO RT 17 yd (short kick).

Currently he's #8 nationally in rushing (748 yds, 6.39 ave), and #7 in all-purpose.
He's currently projected to go between round 3-4 on a couple of boards.

Here's a 60-yd run up the middle against Oregon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG7fOH8T3GM&mode=related&search=

An 85-yd screen pass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ff7fS06deQ

tulexan
10-19-2007, 06:04 PM
I've said it a few times, and I will continue to say it.

Matt Forte

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161747

Currently fifth in the nation in rushing and should be even higher after this week against SMU. He started off a little slow, but his last four games have been 303 against SELU, 75 against LSU, 202 against Army, and 209 against UAB.

He is big (6'1" 224), has breakaway speed, and can catch the ball out of the backfield.

Currently has 151 carries for 919 yards and 9 touchdowns (6.1 ypc) and 21 catches for 182 yards and 0 touchdowns (8.7 ypc)

76Texan
10-19-2007, 06:55 PM
I've said it a few times, and I will continue to say it.

Matt Forte

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161747

Currently fifth in the nation in rushing and should be even higher after this week against SMU. He started off a little slow, but his last four games have been 303 against SELU, 75 against LSU, 202 against Army, and 209 against UAB.

He is big (6'1" 224), has breakaway speed, and can catch the ball out of the backfield.

Currently has 151 carries for 919 yards and 9 touchdowns (6.1 ypc) and 21 catches for 182 yards and 0 touchdowns (8.7 ypc)
I will try to catch him tomorrow night, but I'm afraid I will have to switch over to the LSU/Auburn game later on.

Thing is, I haven't seen him run against a quality team.
The LSU was OK, but not impressive.

Right now, for example, NFL Draft Scout rated Alridge at #91 (3-4 round) and Matt Forte (6 round). He could very well be a steal in the 6th rd.
I'll give my opinion after I watch him some more tomorrow, K!

tulexan
10-19-2007, 08:47 PM
He won't be around in the 6th. I see him as a 4th round pick at the latest.

rmartin65
10-20-2007, 04:11 PM
I know! It so happened that I caught the game to see of there's any chance he can be like Newhouse of the old Cowboys or MJD. Only one play, but it doesn't seem like his built and running style is like either one of them.

So, like badboy says, I don't think we can use him.


We might be able to use him though. Before the season people were talking about wanting a small, fast back. He can do it, and I think he can be an every down player. Just cause he is short does not mean he cant carry the load.

His height to weight ratio is actually pretty good, he is pretty thick in his lower body.
Danny Woodhead- 2.9 lbs per inch (5'7" 200)
Shaun Alexander- 3.2 lbs per inch (5'11" 228)
Maurice Jones-Drew- 3.1 lbs per inch (5'7" 208)
LT- 3.15 lbs per inch (5'10" 221)
Adrian Peterson- 3 lbs per inch (6'1" 217)
Reggie Bush- 2.8 lbs per inch (6' 203)
Joseph Addai- 3 lbs per inch (5'11" 214)
LJ- 3.15 lbs per inch (6'1" 230)

I tried to be pretty even in the backs I chose to look at. Heights and weights off of NFL.com

Here are some highlight vids I found
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5867103654859090949&q=Danny+Woodhead+football&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3276129322956382405&q=Danny+Woodhead+football&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

tulexan
10-21-2007, 12:48 AM
I will try to catch him tomorrow night, but I'm afraid I will have to switch over to the LSU/Auburn game later on.

Thing is, I haven't seen him run against a quality team.
The LSU was OK, but not impressive.

Right now, for example, NFL Draft Scout rated Alridge at #91 (3-4 round) and Matt Forte (6 round). He could very well be a steal in the 6th rd.
I'll give my opinion after I watch him some more tomorrow, K!

38 rushes for 343 yards and 4 touchdowns. Had a 77 yard touchdown and a 65 yard run where he was tackled at the 1.

threetoedpete
10-21-2007, 01:34 AM
You need to stop confussing Ourlads'/any draft service's rankings with team's draftboards.

It's been pretty obvious over the years that the teams are much, much better at evaluating talent then the draft service's are.

Com'on Hoth boy, Ourlad has been doing this for a while. Teams reach. Owners want to sell tickets. Our lads is just a scout evaluating based on his scouting experence. 20 plus years btw.

http://www.ourlads.com/about.cfm

and he is very good at sloting players based on there athletic ablity. Throw away the team needs...who has the best combine...just raw who is the best athlete and how do they compare to what's already in the league. Wanna bang on someone who throws up a mock and is talking out of their arse, that' s one thing...you can bet every team's war room is reading his mail. There is a reason he is very good at what he does. All he does is watch film on guys every day, all year long.

threetoedpete
10-21-2007, 01:42 AM
I've said it a few times, and I will continue to say it.

Matt Forte

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161747

Currently fifth in the nation in rushing and should be even higher after this week against SMU. He started off a little slow, but his last four games have been 303 against SELU, 75 against LSU, 202 against Army, and 209 against UAB.

He is big (6'1" 224), has breakaway speed, and can catch the ball out of the backfield.

Currently has 151 carries for 919 yards and 9 touchdowns (6.1 ypc) and 21 catches for 182 yards and 0 touchdowns (8.7 ypc)



The kid from UCF has good games when his o-line comes across someone they can compete against. He has the size and production. This board will be loaded with smurf backs. Aldridge will always, as great of an athlete a he is, be a liablity in the pocket blocking. And anyone who says he won't doesn't know what they are talking about. Where are you going to play him ? in the slot ? What do you do with J.J. then ? I'm all for the playmaker but you take him you'll suck up two roster spots for him. We're not good enough yet for this icing.

nfl-brit
10-21-2007, 09:54 AM
I know I'm a 'thick Brit' whose knowledge is surpassed by most of you, but it seems to me that our one #1 pick HAS TO BE the best RB left in the pot, surely?

I think we should stick with our corps of WR's into next season, because, imho, I think they're beginning to develop well - good games from Jacoby, a good spell for the other Andre as stand-in and a recent monster game from Walter.

The secondary needs help, but I think if we're willing to go with some vets, FA will help us there.

We need a franchise RB - to share carries with AG at first, and eventually replace him. We have got to use our first pick on a quality RB. I have no idea who's looking good......anyone?:fans:

tulexan
10-21-2007, 09:57 AM
The kid from UCF has good games when his o-line comes across someone they can compete against. He has the size and production. This board will be loaded with smurf backs. Aldridge will always, as great of an athlete a he is, be a liablity in the pocket blocking. And anyone who says he won't doesn't know what they are talking about. Where are you going to play him ? in the slot ? What do you do with J.J. then ? I'm all for the playmaker but you take him you'll suck up two roster spots for him. We're not good enough yet for this icing.

I never brought up anyone from UCF or Aldridge and Forte is far from a smurf back.

nfl-brit
10-21-2007, 10:03 AM
I never brought up anyone from UCF or Aldridge and Forte is far from a smurf back.

What's a 'smurf back'??idonno:

kiwitexansfan
10-21-2007, 05:45 PM
What's a 'smurf back'??idonno:

I believe they are referring to some one who is small in stature, referencing the diminutive smurfs of TV fame.

beerlover
10-22-2007, 12:50 AM
Oregon Runs Over Washington, 55-34

10/20/2007 - Associated Press http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=1284861

SEATTLE (AP) -- After waiting so long to be the featured guy in Oregon's backfield, Jonathan Stewart didn't need the speech.

Still, Oregon coach Mike Bellotti made sure Stewart was comfortable carrying the load with backfield mate Jeremiah Johnson out for the season with a knee injury.

Stewart, who waited 2 1/2 seasons for this moment, gave his coach an emphatic answer Saturday night with the second-best rushing performance in Oregon history. Stewart ran for a career-high 251 yards and two touchdowns, Andre Crenshaw added 113 yards and two second-half scores, and No. 7 Oregon pulled away late for a 55-34 win over Washington.

"When somebody goes down like Jeremiah last week, somebody has to step up," Stewart said. "Right now we're not missing a beat."

The Ducks finished with a school-record 465 rushing yards and 661 total yards. The final numbers even staggered some of Oregon's offensive linemen, who bullied Washington's defense.

"It's really, really unbelievable," Oregon left tackle Max Unger said. "It's a pretty unbelievable feeling when you see the (defensive) line and you can choose what runs you want to do. That's never really happened before."

Whether it was pounding runs inside or stretching the Huskies to the perimeter, Stewart and the Ducks were never stopped. Stewart rushed for 144 yards at halftime, had 198 at the end of the three quarters, and became the first Oregon back to rush for 200 yards since Ontario Smith set a school record with 285 yards against Washington State in 2001.

The Seattle-area native who spurned Washington, finished with 32 carries, seven more than his previous high.

76Texan
10-22-2007, 06:22 PM
Texans might draft between #8-11
I say why not go for an every-down RB in the first and a change of pace RB, or a bruiser in the 4th or later rounds.

rmartin65
10-22-2007, 06:37 PM
I say why not go for an every-down RB in the first and a change of pace RB, or a bruiser in the 4th or later rounds.

I would not be unhappy with that. The running game is bad enough to warrent two picks. I just dont see it happening though, there are too many holes.

76Texan
10-22-2007, 06:40 PM
I like Stewart even before the season started, and I also like Ray Rice and J. Lane (A&M).
McFadden probably will be gone by the time we pick.

I'm starting to like Forte, and of course I always root for Alridge (both as later round picks)

I haven't had the chance to watch other guys much so I can't give my .02 cents.

76Texan
10-22-2007, 06:43 PM
I would not be unhappy with that. The running game is bad enough to warrent to picks. I just dont see it happening though, there are too many holes.

True that. I'd like to see if we can find an O-linemen in the 3rd (probably a center). I'm really hoping that Spencer can come back healthy. That will help us from not having to look for another LT in the draft.

tulexan
10-22-2007, 07:11 PM
Texans might draft between #8-11
I say why not go for an every-down RB in the first and a change of pace RB, or a bruiser in the 4th or later rounds.

Are you saying we should use 2 picks on running backs? We have way too many needs (even with free agency) to spend multiple picks on one position.

76Texan
10-22-2007, 07:20 PM
Are you saying we should use 2 picks on running backs? We have way too many needs (even with free agency) to spend multiple picks on one position.

It's not that crazy, I don't think.
Kubiak wants to control the clock, and we need good RBs to do that.

I'm assuming that we can find a center in the 3rd, Spencer comes back 100%.
Studdard improves enough to back up at guard, or maybe somebody else, or a FA.

Earl & Simmons come back should help the D and I believe Bennett will be a solid NFL player. We may also be able to find a backup in certain area via FA and the 5th round if we're lucky.

stingray
10-22-2007, 08:16 PM
Our schedule looks pretty tough coming up. With 4 out of our next 5 games on the road, we might end up with a record that Darren McFadden might be a posibilty.

beerlover
10-22-2007, 11:15 PM
it might be a good idea to catch Oregon vs. USC this weekend to see what Jonathan can do against future NFL talent especially USC LB's :cool:

76Texan
10-23-2007, 02:46 PM
Slaton looks pretty good as well. Strong, quick burst and have multi gears.

bah007
10-23-2007, 02:51 PM
Slaton looks pretty good as well. Strong, quick burst and have multi gears.

He had a fumbling problem last year. I dont know if its been corrected or not.

Its hard to tell how good he really is cuz Pat White is such a threat to run.

real
10-23-2007, 02:53 PM
I really don't think Slaton is all that...

rollinstone18
10-23-2007, 03:14 PM
it might be a good idea to catch Oregon vs. USC this weekend to see what Jonathan can do against future NFL talent especially USC LB's :cool:

Does Oregon have a good o-line?

bah007
10-23-2007, 03:15 PM
I really don't think Slaton is all that...

He looks like a Reggie Bush clone to me, except with worse hands & less speed.

76Texan
10-23-2007, 04:09 PM
I was watching a NY station that shows a Rutgers show.
They talked about Slaton, and showed some clips.
They think he has improved from last year, faster, stronger.
We'll see some more of him this weekend.

beerlover
10-23-2007, 04:45 PM
Does Oregon have a good o-line?

average @ best but they're pretty athletic & spread it out. the upgrade has been new offensive Coordinator Chip Kelly. Dixion has flourished & teams cannot stack the box & key on Stewart although thats what I expect from the Trojans this week. force Dixion to beat them with his arm & decision making, so we'll see both how Chip adjusts the offesnsive sets & how good Jonathan does up against several future NFL defensive prospects.


vote for Jonathan Stewart- http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3383&SPID=233&ATCLID=1286006&DB_OEM_ID=500

rmartin65
10-27-2007, 11:02 PM
Cool. On a side note, he got injured last night.
http://www.theindependent.com/stories/10192007/spo_spowoodhead19.shtml

Evidently, Woodhead's statistics are not because of a system. He sat out this weeks game with an injury, and Chadron State only had 66 yards on 27 carries, and only 127 yards through the air. They did win 7-6.

Just thought it was interesting.

tulexan
10-27-2007, 11:13 PM
Forte had another huge game this week. 278 yards 2 TDs. If he gets at least 200 yards next week, he will only be the fourth running back ever to have 5 consecutive 200+ yard rushing games.

What is amazing about him is that he is the only real weapon that Tulane has, other teams know that and still can't stop him.

PapaL
10-27-2007, 11:48 PM
Saw Ray Rice play today - looked very good. Big solid guy with some speed. Didn't see homerun speed but he has enough to be a good back.

threetoedpete
10-28-2007, 01:37 AM
I do not want anymore 3rd down backs who can return. How about stepping up and drafting a go to RB?

So....are you gonna cut Green or pay two guys 40 plus million in '08? Inquiring minds wish to know ?

tulexan
10-28-2007, 12:15 PM
I know not many people have seen Forte play, here is a highlight clip of him on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbaIF22NGQ

beerlover
10-28-2007, 02:03 PM
the upgrade has been new offensive Coordinator Chip Kelly. Dixion has flourished & teams cannot stack the box & key on Stewart although thats what I expect from the Trojans this week. force Dixion to beat them with his arm & decision making, so we'll see both how Chip adjusts the offesnsive sets & how good Jonathan does up against several future NFL defensive prospects.

very impressive outing for Stewart (103 yds. 2 TD's & 4.1 avg. per carry) I think thats pretty close to what you can expect from him in the NFL. while that doesn't sound like that much its still 1600 yards & 32 TD's :cool:

Jonathan is the total package, has a low center of gravity, durable frame, hits the hole quickly, is deceisive, will dish out punishment & gives second effort- every down. exceptional balance, good footwork, instincts, has hands & vertical leaping ability to pluck the ball. very good in the red zone, has a nose for getting across goal line. reminds me of a slightly bigger, more powerful, explosive version of DeAngelo Williams. If he declare's for the 08 draft I see him worth a top 20 pick.

76Texan
10-28-2007, 02:42 PM
Looks like all the candidates are making a case for themselves this weekend.

If the Texans decide to go for a RB this year, either in the first or by trading down a little, we should be able to get a decent to very good one.

SF49erFaithful
10-28-2007, 03:36 PM
Jonathan Stewart was great yesterday, and has all the measurables. If he declares he is a very realistic option for you guys if Kubiak decides to go RB in the draft.

bah007
10-28-2007, 04:07 PM
I know not many people have seen Forte play, here is a highlight clip of him on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbaIF22NGQ

Forte looks great but if we go RB in the 1st I want Stewart & nobody else.

beerlover
10-31-2007, 11:40 PM
Forte looks great but if we go RB in the 1st I want Stewart & nobody else.

yeah buddy :thumbup

another big test this upcoming weekend for Stewart & the Ducks as they face #4 Arizona State Sun Devils. Craig Bray was just voted as National Defensive Coordinator of the week in the Sun Devils 31-20 defeat of the Cal Bears. this is a really compelling match-up of strength vs. strength & I beleive that if Mack cancels out Bray your left with a really clear picture of the athletes involved which offers football fans unusual insight into a prospects future viability: Jonathan Stewart.

Its one thing to amass huge numbers & stats against weaker foes & less talented players its quite another when you jump up as close as you can get to NFL talent, coaching & big media stages- it tends to bring out either the worst of best in a person, the utlimate test of endurance under difficult conditions. This game should go along way in confimring/changing opinion in regards to what a RB brings to a team to help win a championship :cowboy1:

tulexan
10-31-2007, 11:50 PM
Forte looks great but if we go RB in the 1st I want Stewart & nobody else.

I'm not pushing to draft Forte in the first. Honestly I think we should go with either an OT or a DB, but if he is available in the 3rd, we should take him. He may not be playing in the SEC or PAC 10, but there have been several running backs who put up big numbers against lesser talents in college and continued success into the NFL. When you combine that with the fact that he doesn't have a great line, has zero passing game, is the focal point of all defenses he faces, and still puts up historic numbers, you have a special player.

UAB's coach put it the best "you don't run for 300+ yards on accident"

Errant Hothy
11-01-2007, 05:56 PM
Good read on Stewart:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3088547&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

The itty-bitty seventh grader became a physical marvel, a chiseled 5-11, 230-pound mass of speed and power and potential, with eye-popping measurables -- the most celebrated recruit in Oregon history.

This season, however, he's become something else: A running back.

The conversation about Stewart used to focus on his 4.34 40-yard dash and his 402-pound power clean, but that never entirely muzzled whispers that for all his physical ability he wasn't an instinctual ball carrier.

beerlover
11-01-2007, 11:59 PM
Stewart is scheduled to be on the Rome Show, Friday November 2nd @ 12:25 pm (sports radio 610) in case anyone wants to hear the interview :phone:

beerlover
11-02-2007, 01:46 PM
bully on the field coming from High School has learned to pick his holes/spots, developing patience, reading/using blocking schemes a vehicle to move in space. great kid, excellent character will be a good fit for some lucky team :whip:

Ole Miss Texan
11-02-2007, 03:54 PM
Stewart is scheduled to be on the Rome Show, Friday November 2nd @ 12:25 pm (sports radio 610) in case anyone wants to hear the interview :phone:

I caught the tail end of it so didn't get to hear much. I tuned in right when he said Dennis and was about to change it (Thinking Franchione and ATM), but for some reason i tough of dennis dixon...which I never do. Lucky I did b/c it was Stewart and all I heard was him saying something to the likes of "well I couldn't perform or Dennis couldn't be near as successful with them....they are the real stars of this team and the ones that deserve the credit" he was talking about their Offensive line.

Again if anybody listened please let us know how the overall interview went. The little I did catch I thought he sounded like a well spoke, humble, kind of guy. this will be a great game this weekend.

Ole Miss Texan
11-02-2007, 03:56 PM
bully on the field coming from High School has learned to pick his holes/spots, developing patience, reading/using blocking schemes a vehicle to move in space. great kid, excellent character will be a good fit for some lucky team :whip:

I guess you pretty much summed it up..thanks beerlover.

1. learned to pick his holes/spots--->good fit for this offense
2. developed patience---->good fit for this offense
3. reading/using blocking schemes---->good fit for this offense
4. Great kid/excellent character----->good fit for this team

Uncanny. The only thing i see wrong is lucky...and we have not been so lucky lately :)

beerlover
11-02-2007, 04:50 PM
I caught the tail end of it so didn't get to hear much. I tuned in right when he said Dennis and was about to change it (Thinking Franchione and ATM), but for some reason i tough of dennis dixon...which I never do. Lucky I did b/c it was Stewart and all I heard was him saying something to the likes of "well I couldn't perform or Dennis couldn't be near as successful with them....they are the real stars of this team and the ones that deserve the credit" he was talking about their Offensive line.

Again if anybody listened please let us know how the overall interview went. The little I did catch I thought he sounded like a well spoke, humble, kind of guy. this will be a great game this weekend.

well how about this for irony- it was stated before the season (did not indicate source) that the Ducks offensive line was ranked last in the Pac-10, or something to that affect. anyway he was vehement is his support of his teammates & hurled all the praise on them for the season the Ducks are having taking none of the credit for himself.

rome was quick to add that if the Ducks did win the game he would invite his entire offensive line to be on the show & Jonathan was overjoyed at that thought to say the least.

for exact comments you can access the interview via the Jim Rome show website in a day or two- http://www.jimrome.com/home.html

Ole Miss Texan
11-02-2007, 05:02 PM
well how about this for irony- it was stated before the season (did not indicate source) that the Ducks offensive line was ranked last in the Pac-10, or something to that affect. anyway he was vehement is his support of his teammates & hurled all the praise on them for the season the Ducks are having taking none of the credit for himself.

rome was quick to add that if the Ducks did win the game he would invite his entire offensive line to be on the show & Jonathan was overjoyed at that thought to say the least.

for exact comments you can access the interview via the Jim Rome show website in a day or two- http://www.jimrome.com/home.html

I caught that...Stewarts awesome. And then Rome was like..I didn't really think that through but we'll have some sort of conference call with 5 people, we'll make it work!

Insideop
11-02-2007, 06:49 PM
I guess I'm starting to get onboard with drafting a RB in the 1st round, especially if it's Stewart. I haven't seen him play, but I heard alot of good things about him and he does seem to be a good fit for what Kubes wants to do. Still, not having a 2nd round pick, makes it tough to go that route when we need a LT and Center so bad.

One thing that does push me to go with a RB in the 1st is the fact that this is projected to be a deep draft for OT's. If we could get Stewart in the 1st and get a very good LT in the 3rd that would be ideal. And, it just so happens that one of Stewart's teammates at Oregon is Max Unger who is a 6'5", 306 lbs, OT who is projected to go in the 3rd round (if he declares). According to WalterFootball.com, Unger runs a 5.04 forty and is a possible candidate for a zone blocking team. This is all just speculation now with a lot of football left to play, but it could be one possible scenario if things play out right come April. Of course that still leaves us with trying to get a Center, FS, CB, etc...... :hmmm: What to do, what to do! Too many holes and not enough picks!

rmartin65
11-03-2007, 09:16 AM
Ok, I am convinced. Put me on the Stewart bandwagon.

bah007
11-03-2007, 09:39 PM
Ok, I am convinced. Put me on the Stewart bandwagon.

Yes. Join us.

Ole Miss Texan
11-03-2007, 10:38 PM
Stewart looked really good tonight. He showed that he's got Speed (rushing, receiving, and even kick returning), great vision, is very elusive, and can BREAK tackles very well. I don't know what his Yards after Contact were but it was probably close to 80% of his total rushing yards.

rmartin65
11-04-2007, 09:22 AM
He did play well. But the Arkansas running game was sick. Mcfadden and Jones, just sick.

tulexan
11-04-2007, 09:28 AM
I would take Felix Jones over Stewart. The guy breaks huge runs every single game in a tough conference.

rmartin65
11-04-2007, 11:00 AM
I would take Felix Jones over Stewart. The guy breaks huge runs every single game in a tough conference.

Its a close one. But I am thinking Stewart. He has more of an NFL body than Jones, and has shown he can be The back. Jones may be good, dhe is not far behind, but I think Stewart is the safer pick.

beerlover
11-04-2007, 11:17 AM
Its a close one. But I am thinking Stewart. He has more of an NFL body than Jones, and has shown he can be The back. Jones may be good, dhe is not far behind, but I think Stewart is the safer pick.

its not going to matter soon anyway, Stewart is moving himself into becoming a top 10 pick, his receiving skills are developing into elite status for a RB, he has very soft hands & plucks the ball effortlessly, not to mention he has over 30 pounds of muscle on Felix without impacting his explosive speed capability.

TEXANRED
11-04-2007, 11:46 AM
I would take Felix Jones over Stewart. The guy breaks huge runs every single game in a tough conference.

The Gamecocks didnt have an answer for Arkansas last night. Jones averaged 15 yards a carry and had three TD's.

McF busted out a long run for a TD. I think it was somewhere in the seventy yard range.

tulexan
11-04-2007, 12:05 PM
Felix is averaging an unheard of 9.3 yards per carry. For someone who gets significant carries, that is crazy. Yes, he does benefit from having McFadden on the team, but he has a lot of success when McFadden is off the field too. While I do think that Stewart is a great back and would love to have him on the Texans, part of me wonders how much of an effect that Dixon's running abilities have on Stewart's numbers.

LonerATO
11-06-2007, 08:55 PM
What about Ian Johnson that kid has been ice cold for the last few years. I dont care about all of these running backs getting coverage or people talking about them now like Jonathon Stewart who is bad, but you still have Yvenson Bernard and Ryan Torrain who are sweet.

threetoedpete
11-08-2007, 12:30 PM
What about Ian Johnson that kid has been ice cold for the last few years. I dont care about all of these running backs getting coverage or people talking about them now like Jonathon Stewart who is bad, but you still have Yvenson Bernard and Ryan Torrain who are sweet.

Ian Johsnon is a little guy. But...he would fit this teams platoon system. He had a prety fair year last year. His numbers are way down this season. But if you check the record he is playing hurt this season. Which means... he should drop. Also means he will get into range as to what we can afford. Playing hurt for the team ? that's a plus in my book. Doc check him out and he tests ok...

All of this is assuming that Kubes is not going to throw Ahmen under the bus for Stewart. He'd be the first one if he does.

BTW, he posted twenty-five TDs in '06. That's a good number in anyones league. Off Years ? Will say he will have trouble blocking the larger OLBs of the 3-4 and we don't know if he has soft hands. What you do know is that if there is a crack in the line he gets through it quickly. And when he dose catch the ball he has a prety decent average. Not saying he is Robert Smith, but he looks a lot like RS the RB for Minnesota from a few seasons ago. He is an elite slasher with poor feild vision and questionable blocking and receiving skills. I like the guy. I'd give a six for him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=170016

rollinstone18
11-08-2007, 12:48 PM
Kevin Smith is putting up some impressive numbers. If a few RB and OL prospects declare I think we have no choice but to find a trade-down partner and pick up a second or third round pick.

threetoedpete
11-08-2007, 12:50 PM
its not going to matter soon anyway, Stewart is moving himself into becoming a top 10 pick, his receiving skills are developing into elite status for a RB, he has very soft hands & plucks the ball effortlessly, not to mention he has over 30 pounds of muscle on Felix without impacting his explosive speed capability.

Keep hope alive beerlover. Miami is picking ahead of us and no one thought that Okye would fall to us last off season. BJIC, might want to focus on the Fla.- South Carolina game this week end. I like curl lipped RBs.

http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/200
http://www.draftinsiders.com/taxonomy/term/5

He makes it to thirty one here.

threetoedpete
11-08-2007, 01:02 PM
Kevin Smith is putting up some impressive numbers. If a few RB and OL prospects declare I think we have no choice but to find a trade-down partner and pick up a second or third round pick.

That's what I'm thinking also. They need to find a C, CB, and those two thingys can't be ignored...at all. They have to come up with those two this off season. I think OLT...21 games and counting, and LBs and a FS wouldn't hurt. That's a lot of stuff for one team in one off season.

And of course the trade down therom ASSumes that draft day they'll be someone on the board that someone else is willing to part with a pick worth five hundred to seven hundred points for. Far from a dun deal. Everyone want's value for their money. Everyone wants to trade down for extra high range picks. That is why the wolf in New England makes a habit of having extra picks in his pocket for the next draft. They are not affraid to take next years picks off of someone's hands and waiting. It allows them, with the extra ammo, to move around and sellect the guy(s) they have targeted. They don't HAVE to watch while their prospects they like sail off to other teams.
It's not random. And it is not kaos.

According to this mock, everyone gets healthy. Everyone hits a position of need in he first round with a high end guy. They'd have to like a guy an aweful lot to part with a pick. See where I'm going with this ?

http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/200

beerlover
11-08-2007, 02:26 PM
well how about this for irony- it was stated before the season (did not indicate source) that the Ducks offensive line was ranked last in the Pac-10, or something to that affect. anyway he was vehement is his support of his teammates & hurled all the praise on them for the season the Ducks are having taking none of the credit for himself.

rome was quick to add that if the Ducks did win the game he would invite his entire offensive line to be on the show & Jonathan was overjoyed at that thought to say the least.

true to his word Rome is having on at least three of Jonathans offensive linemen tomorrow, one of which is SR. LT Geoff Schwartz all 6-7 335 lbs of him (second day pick).

Ole Miss Texan
11-08-2007, 03:11 PM
Interesting how many mocks I've seen with sam baker falling so much.

kastofsna
11-08-2007, 03:46 PM
welp, this appears to be one of the finest drafts as far as RB's go. McFadden's the best prospect in a while, Kevin Smith is a poor man's Adrian Peterson, Jonathan Stewart is athletically off the charts, Felix Jones is really good, Ray Rice is a horse, then you have interesting players like Steve Slaton, Mike Hart, Tashard Choice...i like Ryan Torrain from ASU a lot. what about Jamaal Charles? Rashard Mendenhall? Ian Johnson? crazy talent.

TexansSeminole
11-08-2007, 06:02 PM
welp, this appears to be one of the finest drafts as far as RB's go. McFadden's the best prospect in a while, Kevin Smith is a poor man's Adrian Peterson, Jonathan Stewart is athletically off the charts, Felix Jones is really good, Ray Rice is a horse, then you have interesting players like Steve Slaton, Mike Hart, Tashard Choice...i like Ryan Torrain from ASU a lot. what about Jamaal Charles? Rashard Mendenhall? Ian Johnson? crazy talent.

Just to add to the interesting players you have Jacob Hester, Matt Forte, and also Rashard Mendenhall from Illinois (runs with the spread offense).

Insideop
11-08-2007, 09:28 PM
true to his word Rome is having on at least three of Jonathans offensive linemen tomorrow, one of which is SR. LT Geoff Schwartz all 6-7 335 lbs of him (second day pick).

They didn't happen to mention Max Unger did they? That's the lineman (if he declares) that the Texans might be able to get in the 3rd round. He's a Jr., but already rated ahead of Schwartz. He is 6'5", 306 lbs, and runs a 5.04 forty. WalterFootball.com says he is a candidate for a Zone-Blocking team. Schwartz is too slow. He runs a 5.54 forty and is projected to go in the 7th round.

I don't normally listen to Rome, but maybe I'll have to make a special effort tomorrow. :shades:

bah007
11-08-2007, 11:44 PM
I was watching a NY station that shows a Rutgers show.
They talked about Slaton, and showed some clips.
They think he has improved from last year, faster, stronger.
We'll see some more of him this weekend.

Slaton had all of 60 yds, 1 TD, & 1 fumble lost on 17 carries (3.5 avg) against Louisville's vaunted defense.

Pat White was much more impressive (despite 4 fumbles).

Its official. Brian Brohm is the only player on Louisville's offense. He carried the team all night & his teammates messed up just enough times to lose the game.

LonerATO
11-09-2007, 12:36 AM
dont expect any of USC LB's this year there was a post on fannation saying all the jr's where going to stay

beerlover
11-09-2007, 03:58 AM
They didn't happen to mention Max Unger did they? That's the lineman (if he declares) that the Texans might be able to get in the 3rd round. He's a Jr., but already rated ahead of Schwartz. He is 6'5", 306 lbs, and runs a 5.04 forty. WalterFootball.com says he is a candidate for a Zone-Blocking team. Schwartz is too slow. He runs a 5.54 forty and is projected to go in the 7th round.

I don't normally listen to Rome, but maybe I'll have to make a special effort tomorrow. :shades:

yes I think he did mention Unger, along with Schwartz & Jeff Kendall. same time as Stewart was on last week about 12:35 Central.

good catch on Unger :thumbup can play LT or Center, think the Texans could use him? Combines athleticism with an intelligence and demeanor to approach all-conference levels during the coming year after developing into one of the lineís most improved last season. Prides himself in being a tough competitor who utilizes his aggression to his benefit and is very mobile.

threetoedpete
11-09-2007, 04:38 AM
Interesting how many mocks I've seen with sam baker falling so much.

Arnold the gaurd of LSU has taken a naty dip in some mocks. Hey old miss...draft insiders has the kid going to the raiders....think Micheal Oher will by pass forty million for the good of 'ol Miss ? He gets a high ranking from the NFL guys, he's going to come out.

badboy
11-09-2007, 11:10 AM
yes I think he did mention Unger, along with Schwartz & Jeff Kendall. same time as Stewart was on last week about 12:35 Central.

good catch on Unger :thumbup can play LT or Center, think the Texans could use him? Combines athleticism with an intelligence and demeanor to approach all-conference levels during the coming year after developing into one of the lineís most improved last season. Prides himself in being a tough competitor who utilizes his aggression to his benefit and is very mobile.As others have said, it remains to be seen if we can find a trade partner in draft but it would be sweet if we could get a LT in first, a RB in 2nd and Unger in 3rd to play center. A CB or FS in 4th and reverse in 5th. In 6th, we get a OLB and 7th BPA. I would go nuts. Especially if we can use FA successfully. Improvements by players on roster now and those coming back from IR would make this season's w/L that I expect more easy to swallow.

steelbtexan
11-09-2007, 12:02 PM
As others have said, it remains to be seen if we can find a trade partner in draft but it would be sweet if we could get a LT in first, a RB in 2nd and Unger in 3rd to play center. A CB or FS in 4th and reverse in 5th. In 6th, we get a OLB and 7th BPA. I would go nuts. Especially if we can use FA successfully. Improvements by players on roster now and those coming back from IR would make this season's w/L that I expect more easy to swallow.

Yeah that would be sweet.
Then in free agency we could go after
Faneca, Justin Smith, Micheal Boley, & Justin Fargas (the son of Huggy Bear)

leebigeztx
11-09-2007, 01:24 PM
Personally, i dont think they will pull the trigger on a rb. Personally, i dont think i would do it either with players like portis,lewis,jones,bell,and turner all under 27 becoming free agents. I know peterson is having a great season, but even his backup is avg almost 5 ypc. So is it him or the line? I think with the extra money they will have this summer, they might target two guys whom he's had experience with, portis and bell with turner maybe being out of their money range. If the can get portis who can get 1300 yds and combine him with green who can get another 600-700 then the team gets 35 carries and 135 yds per game. They can take some of the money they save and get safety help. I used to think cb was a bigger need, but i think bennett is good opposite of robinson. Bob sanders is a f/a this offseason. wouldn't the team be better with portis and sanders on the team?

infantrycak
11-09-2007, 01:27 PM
Personally, i dont think they will pull the trigger on a rb. Personally, i dont think i would do it either with players like portis,lewis,jones,bell,and turner all under 27 becoming free agents.

Portis is under contract until the 2012 season. What Lewis are you referring to?--Jamal Lewis will be 29 next year.

TexansSeminole
11-09-2007, 01:32 PM
Lol why dont we just pick up Champ Bailey and Sean Taylor while we are at it. No problemo.

Ole Miss Texan
11-09-2007, 02:11 PM
Hey old miss...draft insiders has the kid going to the raiders....think Micheal Oher will by pass forty million for the good of 'ol Miss ? He gets a high ranking from the NFL guys, he's going to come out.

I'm a huge fan of Mike Oher but obviously don't know everything he's thinking. This is a kid who went from not knowing his father or the majority of his brothers and sisters, and having a crack-head mother- to being adopted by a wealthy white family in Memphis. He has an incredible story and one that will def. be talked about extensively during the NFL draft. He's the only person in his family that got a driver's license, and the biggest thing pushing him was that nobody else had even had a chance to get one.

Personally, I don't think there is a chance in hell he's going to declare for the draft this season. And as a big fan, I don't think it would be smart for him to. The Tuohy family (adopted family) gave him everything they could and are his biggest spiritual/emotional supporters. Mike had Phil Fulmer from Tenn, Nick Saban from LSU, I believe Bob Stoops from OU, in his house recruiting him to go play for their schools. These are championship calibre teams but Mike chose Ole Miss b/c that's where the Tuohy's went as well as his step-sister. They will make him stay in school. Also, Oher will be the only member of his true family to even attend college let alone get a degree. This is the biggest thing motivating him, imo.

I will say if he's told that he will prob. be the 1st OL taken and an easy top 5- top 10 pick he might. But I don't really think that is going to be the case. I've only gotten a chance to see him a few times this season and he hasn't looked like a top 10 pick to me. He has some work to do but I definitly think he'll get there. Staying another year will really help him a lot, not to help the team do well but to get that much more experience. If he has a solid season next year it will really help his draft stock to get paid more come draft day.

bah007
11-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Personally, i dont think they will pull the trigger on a rb. Personally, i dont think i would do it either with players like portis,lewis,jones,bell,and turner all under 27 becoming free agents. I know peterson is having a great season, but even his backup is avg almost 5 ypc. So is it him or the line? I think with the extra money they will have this summer, they might target two guys whom he's had experience with, portis and bell with turner maybe being out of their money range. If the can get portis who can get 1300 yds and combine him with green who can get another 600-700 then the team gets 35 carries and 135 yds per game. They can take some of the money they save and get safety help. I used to think cb was a bigger need, but i think bennett is good opposite of robinson. Bob sanders is a f/a this offseason. wouldn't the team be better with portis and sanders on the team?

Chester Taylor isnt exactly a scrub.

kastofsna
11-09-2007, 03:24 PM
since anyone worth their salt said that Peterson was one of the best runningback prospects to ever enter the draft, and subsequently he's performing as such, i'd say it's him. having a great line just makes it a dangerous combination.

badboy
11-09-2007, 04:39 PM
Yeah that would be sweet.
Then in free agency we could go after
Faneca, Justin Smith, Micheal Boley, & Justin Fargas (the son of Huggy Bear)Faneca a multi year probowl guard will be 32 Dec 7th 2008. He will want a three year deal worth $15 million with probably 7-8 guaranteed. Not sure if I'd do that.

beerlover
11-09-2007, 11:20 PM
heres a pre-draft report on Adrian Peterson, whatcha think about him now :specnatz:

source: http://magazine.stack.com/TheIssue/ArticleDraw/4329
Adrian Peterson

Position: RB
College: University of Oklahoma
Height: 6í2Ē
Weight: 220 lbs

Scouting Report: His unbelievable combo of size, speed and power make Adrian the best running back in the nation. He loves to deliver the blow, but he can also outrun any defender on the field. His balance, patience and vision have drawn comparisons to the great Eric Dickerson. In his freshman season, Adrian scored 15 touchdowns and set the NCAAís single season rushing record for a freshman, with 1,925 yards. As a sophomore in 2004, he finished second in the Heisman balloting. Adrian totaled 4,045 career rushing yards in three yearsójust short of the Oklahoma record, which he wouldíve shattered if injuries hadnít plagued him. Heís nicknamed ďAD, All Day,Ē because he can run over any defense, all day long.

Richesson on Adrian: Adrian wants to wow people with his speed. And much like Patrick and Alan, he has a lot of raw horsepower. In college, your manhood is tested by how hard you continue to grind and work, and Adrian passed. Heís coming off a shoulder injury, so we made sure he stays healthy by continuing to refine his movement skills. He might be one of the fastest running backs in history if he does what we think heís capable of doing.

Adrian On:

Showing off for NFL coaches

I definitely want to show my speed. Iíve got my technique down, so I am excited about getting out there and running a good 40 for the NFL coaches. Iím excited about the vertical jump, too.

APís all-star class

Being around all these stars is cool; I really enjoy it. And I donít know what Patrickís talking aboutóheís a freak, man! We all have different personalities, but the same work ethic and drive, which is cool. It makes you realize how all these guys got to this level.

Lining up together

Oh boy! That would be some all-star team.

What drives him

I definitely have the inspiration and drive I need. I think about all the hard work Iíve put in since I was seven years old to get to this point. Iíve been through battles and difficult times; so now at this point, when things get tough, getting through it is nothing.

The NFL Dream

Growing up watching Emmitt Smith and Eddie George, I always wanted to be in the National Football League. That was always my ultimate dream. In high school, I went through the process of getting my name out there so I could play in college. Now Iím ready to take that third step.

Being a role model

Iím quite comfortable in the spotlight and being a role model. Like I said, when I was little, I had guys I looked up to and tried to be like. I know how important it is, because kids do what they see on television. Now that Iím in the position where kids out there want to be like me, it feels good to do right and show them how hard work makes an opportunity like this possible.

beerlover
11-17-2007, 04:26 AM
140 threads later John McClain chimes in -

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5299761.html

it really is becoming painfully obvious then :cool:

Ole Miss Texan
11-17-2007, 05:02 AM
140 threads later John McClain chimes in -

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5299761.html

it really is becoming painfully obvious then :cool:

That was one of the lamest articles I've ever read...leave it to McClain.

Specnatz
11-17-2007, 09:41 AM
That was one of the lamest articles I've ever read...leave it to McClain.

Lame and McClain in the same sentence I am shocked, just flat out shocked.

But you do know what he was hinting at ..........


DRAFT AN O-LINEMAN!!

threetoedpete
11-17-2007, 01:05 PM
140 threads later John McClain chimes in -

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5299761.html

it really is becoming painfully obvious then :cool:

Yeah well he said something that was a hundred and eighty degrees out friday on his show. He said that a great running back can overcome a terrible line. But a high end line will never over come a marginal Rb. That's plain wrong. Timmy Smith behind the haugs is one example. Name most of the Oiler backs besides Earl Campbell and you'd be spot on. You got five good to great guys on the o-line, they'll make just about anyone look great. Let's reveiw. Franchise Q B. Franchise WR. Franchise CB with Supposedly Kevin Green. A DT. Franchise rush end. Another DT.

Stewart maybe the guy. But not so sure that he is the correct guy.

Well when the HC is out infront of the micro phones, a place you could clearly tell he didn't want to be, and is telling the media that his thrity something Rb whom has been rested all week and couldn't overcome one light workout....I think the hand writiing is on the wall. Last week I posted that he wouldn't throw Ahmen overboard. Today I'm not so sure about that.

I called this one BTW. Know what you get when you place your chips on the thirty somethings backs...trouble.

Vinny
11-17-2007, 02:25 PM
That was one of the lamest articles I've ever read...leave it to McClain.he pretty much stated the obvious. Many great prospects who project well and were taken early in the NFL draft have gone on to become pretty good running backs and some guys who were picked later went on to become pretty good running backs too. Drafting a back is just like anything else...for every LaDainian Tomlinson or Joseph Addai, there are two guys like Lawrence Phillips, Blair Thomas or William Green. Thanks John!

tulexan
11-17-2007, 02:55 PM
I can see what Anna Megan sees in John. They both have a knack for talking a lot without actually saying anything.

beerlover
11-23-2007, 10:37 AM
using ranking services effectively is a tool that sometimes can say alot about a player. sustainable excellence tracks a players performance over the years in their development & provides sound data to project future results based on past performance. case in point Adrian Peterson RB of the Minnesota Vikings, formerly Oklahoma then before that played high school football @ Palestine Texas. he was ranked #1 overall prospect in the nation (by Rival) & never looked back in College, came out early & was ranked #3 overall coming into the NFL draft. he maintained a high level of excellence for a sustained period of time @ every level (296 yds. vs Chargers) & should have been a top 3 pick based upon the evidence or body of work combined with overall ability moving forward.

now to Jonathan Stewart (yes again). while ranked the #1 RB prospect in the nation coming out of High School he dropped to #10 in the overall rankings but still ahead of McFadden @ #23. the interesting point here is that McFadden was not ranked as a RB but rather as an athlete. so my question is what changed & caused McFadden to leap frog Stewart to claim the title of #1 RB @ the college level? I'm going to check him out closely later on today when Arkansas plays (oh yeah Felix Jones) but in the past I've found him difficult to project as a pure RB because of his athletic ability in space rather than between the tackles. same height as Peterson but lacks the strength & power more of a slot back. my guess is that he benifits as much as Felix by playing off each others strengths, but as far as the RB position being well rounded lacks the complete game of a Jonathan Stewart from a positional standpoint.

while we certainly are going to disagree & have our differences these players are elite for a reason & have been so over extended period of time. the Texans have to address the RB position someday with more than just band-aids & hope it sticks :stooges:

tulexan
11-23-2007, 11:00 AM
Some players progress faster than others. Stewart may have been more ready to play college ball than McFadden which is why he was ranked higher coming out of high school. McFadden has since shown how good he is and has the potential to be which has caused him to be ranked higher.

This isn't rocket surgery.

eriadoc
11-23-2007, 11:50 AM
Interesting how many mocks I've seen with sam baker falling so much.

I believe he's been injured all year. If you watch what he's done for his career at USC, it's possible he could be the next Eric Winston, only better.

beerlover
11-25-2007, 12:42 PM
This isn't rocket surgery.


then go tell the Browns who selected 1st overall in 1999 & 2000 netting QB Tim Couch/DE Courtney Brown then in 2001 DT Gerard Warren 3rd overall & RB William Green 16th overall in 2002 :cool:

rollinstone18
11-25-2007, 04:13 PM
I think I'd rather have Mendenhall or Felix Jones than Stewart. Hopefully they all declare and we can trade down and pick one of them up.

tulexan
11-25-2007, 04:38 PM
To be honest, Stewart has not been impressive at all since Dixon's injury. I would stay away from him. I also don't want to hear that he is the focus of opposing defenses now and that is why he isn't doing as well because that hasn't stopped Kevin Smith or Matt Forte this season.

Ckw
11-25-2007, 04:40 PM
I don't know why but I like Ray Rice. What do you guys think of him? He gets a knock cause he's only 5'9 but he's certainly a north-south runner.

stingray
11-25-2007, 04:56 PM
I don't know why but I like Ray Rice. What do you guys think of him? He gets a knock cause he's only 5'9 but he's certainly a north-south runner.

I agree. Like him alot...

beerlover
11-25-2007, 08:21 PM
regardless, its imminently clear & has been all season since Ahman Green left the game against the Colts (game 3) the #1 priority for the Texans is a gamebreaking RB that helps the OL & takes pressure off Schaub.

do you realize the Texans did not throw a single pass to a RB against the Browns? game planning because of limitation is not a formula for success :cowboy1:

tulexan
11-25-2007, 09:57 PM
regardless, its imminently clear & has been all season since Ahman Green left the game against the Colts (game 3) the #1 priority for the Texans is a gamebreaking RB that helps the OL & takes pressure off Schaub.

do you realize the Texans did not throw a single pass to a RB against the Browns? game planning because of limitation is not a formula for success :cowboy1:

I agree that RB is arguably the most important position that we need to upgrade, but I am not convinced that it has to come from a first round pick. There are going to be some great/good backs available via free agency and this is one of the deepest RB drafts that I can remember in recent history. We have other needs that are harder to fill with elite talent later in the draft.

beerlover
11-25-2007, 10:33 PM
I agree that RB is arguably the most important position that we need to upgrade, but I am not convinced that it has to come from a first round pick. There are going to be some great/good backs available via free agency and this is one of the deepest RB drafts that I can remember in recent history. We have other needs that are harder to fill with elite talent later in the draft.

1. class depth is dependant on the underclassman coming out early

2. Texans have failed to address RB with elite talent in 6 years

3. limited cap space in 08 (for someone like Michael Turner) to upgrade

tulexan
11-25-2007, 10:54 PM
1. I realize that the depth depends on juniors coming out, but there are a lot of juniors who in all likelihood will come out because of their draft stock being as high as it's going to get and/or their team is going to be terrible next year and could potentially hurt their status by staying. Elite juniors also generally come out because of the short shelf life of the running back career and one injury could cost them millions (see Michael Bush) by staying an extra year.

2. That is somewhat misleading. Yes, they haven't gone after elite talent, but for a few of those years we had Domanick Davis/Williams who may not have been elite, but was sufficient and productive. While Kubiak has been coach, we were planning on drafting Reggie Bush his first year and thought that DD/DW was going to be healthy so we didn't go after a running back in free agency. Last offseason we gambled and lost with Ahman Green. I also don't believe there were many elite running backs available last season with the exception of Travis Henry and we saw how that has panned out for Denver.

3. I may be wrong, but I thought we have more than enough cap space to go after one big name like Turner (not saying that we will necessarily go after him). That being said, Turner is not the only free agent running back available this offseason.

steelbtexan
11-25-2007, 11:29 PM
Lets sign Fargas & draft Forte in the 4th or Hester in the 5th rd.

threetoedpete
11-26-2007, 01:46 AM
You just spent twenty five per cent of your draft ammo on RBs. GL tring to find a CB who may have to tart three games in September, OLTto put Salaam back at swing tackle , a center and a speed rusher 4-3 end or an upgrade at LB with the other three. I mean Rb is a hole, but it's not the only hole they have on the club.

I believe that Stewart is the best fit ...but I also believe you're not going to see Robinson anytime soon. No offense to Kubes collection of patch guy DBs... but DB is our biggest hole now. Kevin Smith is so raw he just might fall into the third. The DBs who have the tallent to start right away, that there is a different animal.

rollinstone18
11-26-2007, 04:06 AM
You just spent twenty five per cent of your draft ammo on RBs. GL tring to find a CB who may have to tart three games in September, OLTto put Salaam back at swing tackle , a center and a speed rusher 4-3 end or an upgrade at LB with the other three. I mean Rb is a hole, but it's not the only hole they have on the club.

I believe that Stewart is the best fit ...but I also believe you're not going to see Robinson anytime soon. No offense to Kubes collection of patch guy DBs... but DB is our biggest hole now. Kevin Smith is so raw he just might fall into the third. The DBs who have the tallent to start right away, that there is a different animal.

I agree. Phillips, Malcolm Jenkins, or Talib Aqib would be a welcoming addition to our defense. Anyone else think Aqib can play safety if need be? But Kevin Smith, James Davis, and Mike Hart may all be available with our 3rd round pick.

I think I'd still rather trade down though.

beerlover
11-26-2007, 11:48 AM
I'm always open to trading down especially when the Texans currently don't have a 2nd rd. pick. I'm always open to take bpa even over need, for instance taking a DT (Okoye) over a RB (Marshawn Lynch). Or hit the free agent market & make a big splash signing (Nate Clements).

the reality is they are not always easy or the prudent things to do. trade down if you can but don't get taken, draft bpa but not @ expense of addressing a huge need & don't morgtage the future when in 09 the Texans will be in position to make a realistic playoff run giving the flexability to address key position upgrades :cool:

how would the Texans be doing IF they had taken Marshawn Lynch instead of Amobi Okoye?

eriadoc
11-26-2007, 01:02 PM
Who knows? We might be able to sign Lamont Jordan before long. He's been productive.

kastofsna
11-26-2007, 01:19 PM
focus on getting a young guy for the future, stop worrying about old free agents from the Raiders or Packers or whathaveyou. it's not like it'll take a long time to develop a young RB or anything.

ATX
11-26-2007, 01:25 PM
focus on getting a young guy for the future, stop worrying about old free agents from the Raiders or Packers or whathaveyou. it's not like it'll take a long time to develop a young RB or anything.

What about younger free agents from the Chargers?

tulexan
11-26-2007, 02:54 PM
I would go after Michael Turner first and then Julius Jones. Mewelde Moore is intriguing because I think he hasn't really gotten a fair shake in Minnesota and could become a very productive back if given a chance.

YoungTexanFan
11-26-2007, 04:29 PM
I don't want anyones castoffs or backups, especially at RB. The shelf life on a RB is so short, and the theoretical ability of our offensive scheme (not Shermans power blocking), should allow many young and inexperienced guys to step in and step up.

Yes, the offense will look amazing with a Portis, but it could still look good with a Travis Henery (who is not anywhere close to as good as his numbers with Denver would indicate). Yeah, it would be nice to score a McFadden or Stewart (not sold on Stewart yet personally), but it's not that bad to fall back onto a Rice, Jones, or even a Savage. Maybe even give guys like Forte a chance. Production and success breed production and success.

eriadoc
11-26-2007, 05:11 PM
focus on getting a young guy for the future, stop worrying about old free agents from the Raiders or Packers or whathaveyou. it's not like it'll take a long time to develop a young RB or anything.

Well, in my book, the 1st, 3rd, and 4th round picks from this year need to be tied up in OL and secondary. Hell, with injuries to the secondary, we probably need at least two in the secondary now, despite Bennett's emergence as a legit player. That doesn't leave much room for RB.

badboy
11-26-2007, 05:25 PM
I would go after Michael Turner first and then Julius Jones. Mewelde Moore is intriguing because I think he hasn't really gotten a fair shake in Minnesota and could become a very productive back if given a chance.Jones has not impressed me with last two games.

steelbtexan
11-26-2007, 05:41 PM
You just spent twenty five per cent of your draft ammo on RBs. GL tring to find a CB who may have to tart three games in September, OLTto put Salaam back at swing tackle , a center and a speed rusher 4-3 end or an upgrade at LB with the other three. I mean Rb is a hole, but it's not the only hole they have on the club.

I believe that Stewart is the best fit ...but I also believe you're not going to see Robinson anytime soon. No offense to Kubes collection of patch guy DBs... but DB is our biggest hole now. Kevin Smith is so raw he just might fall into the third. The DBs who have the tallent to start right away, that there is a different animal.
I would also like to sign Lance Briggs in free agency & let him rush the passer on 3rd downs.

beerlover
11-29-2007, 12:42 PM
here is an interesting article - "Backfield help can come after the draft"

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7442652

the Texans have also employeed this approach with un-drafted RB's Darius Walker, Chris Taylor & late round pick Adimchinobi Echemandu (selected by the Browns in 7th rd. 208th pick). my question is this process giving the team enough tools to be successful? if the Texans could run the ball effectively, they could cut down on the turnovers, balance the attack & keep the defense fresh.

One challenge is identifying what to look for. The Broncos have successfully fingered running backs that fit the team's offensive system. Denver wants rushers who can read the offensive line's zone blocking, make a quick cut and accelerate up-field without dancing in the backfield waiting for holes to open.

Since coach Mike Shanahan's arrival in 1995, the Broncos have fielded 1,000-yard rushers in 11 of 12 seasons. None were first-round picks. The most prolific ó Terrell Davis ó wasn't chosen until the sixth round.

Broncos General Manager Ted Sundquist said his team places a heavy emphasis on scouting college all-star games that running backs projected as high picks tend to skip. Sundquist also pays extra attention to college reserves or starters with limited snaps like Young had until his senior season at Texas in 2006.

threetoedpete
11-29-2007, 01:43 PM
[QUOTE=beerlover;792042]here is an interesting article - "Backfield help can come after the draft"


Well, they've kinda been unlucky that's for sure. So if Kubick is empolying this system....you gotta believe there is a method to the madness. Like when he pulls a guy up off of practice squad and then doesn't use him. I wish I knew exactly why faggins and now Flanagan started as long as they have. There must be a reason for that.

What I think generally about the running backs is there are more folks waiting on them and not over paying for them in the draft than there are folks who are taking the gamble in the first round on one. Three per year going on average over the last five years for thirty-two teams ...more than just a random trend. There are only a hand full of guys now who are truly a thirty carry a game backs. I can see New Orleans taking one early just for the fact that Bush needs a soul mate to be productive. I think we're close enough to do it...be a playoff team and take the RB. But I also like the cap space of not taking one in the first round. I mean if we offered a second day pick for Turner I would not object to that. If we're talking about giving away our only day one pick on the guy....I'd just as soon use it on the/a rookie. either Stewart in the first or gambling that one that the scouts like will be on the board in the third or fourth round. The sky didn't exactly fall on our heads because we didn't move up and select all day after giving Minnesoda all of our picks to move up. Now he may beat us one day in the SB. But so far I have no gripes that they held their water. Some do.

beerlover
11-29-2007, 02:22 PM
enjoyable read once again threetoedpete.

I pulled the Denver reference because of its possible formulative influence on Rick Smith & Kubaik. have no problem with it until we get to a point like we finally have this year. its costing us turnovers big time which is a major reason we've lost games that where winnable. backs fumbling, risk reward passing game while teams know this, stack the box & sit back in coverage waiting to pick off the under/over throw or dislodge the ball with bone breaking hits. its much easier to control the clock & the turnover battle by running the ball, playing solid defense & good special teams, I think at this point thats what we should be doing.

take the bpa in the 1st rd. then use the 2nd day picks to address need. it remains to be seen who will be the consensus bpa when the Texans select could be a cb, ot, rb or lb I just give a nudge to anything that inspires the running game to be more effective, heck maybe a franchise Center & rehab the RB's already on the roster :cool:

PapaL
11-29-2007, 02:28 PM
The Broncos have successfully fingered running backs that fit the team's offensive system. [/I]

What is this guy writing? They fingered running backs? Ummm - How about the found? Fingering is well....another topic for another type board.

It's a great theory - as long as the OL is consistent.

The1ApplePie
11-29-2007, 03:38 PM
Teams that win championships always have 1st round RBs, with the exception of the Steelers and Broncos. Nothing makes up for a stud RB, and this draft is stacked with them.

Don't see Hart being much in the NFL

Boris
11-29-2007, 10:06 PM
my ultimate would be a big rb who punishes. I'd be willing to concede breakaway speed & jukes as long as big rb has light feet & enthusiasm.

that said, who should i adopt for this upcoming draft? previously hoped for Michael Bush, LenDale White, TJ Duckett (not saying i'm a genius).... basically any big back

i read about Tulane RB Matt Forte, SI referenced his good feet. Any names you could throw my way so that i can enjoy reading up on them?

PapaL
11-29-2007, 10:11 PM
my ultimate would be a big rb who punishes. I'd be willing to concede breakaway speed & jukes as long as big rb has light feet & enthusiasm.

that said, who should i adopt for this upcoming draft? previously hoped for Michael Bush, LenDale White, TJ Duckett (not saying i'm a genius).... basically any big back

i read about Tulane RB Matt Forte, SI referenced his good feet. Any names you could throw my way so that i can enjoy reading up on them?

Ray Rice, nevermind he's not big at all.

threetoedpete
11-30-2007, 01:25 AM
Teams that win championships always have 1st round RBs, with the exception of the Steelers and Broncos. Nothing makes up for a stud RB, and this draft is stacked with them.

Don't see Hart being much in the NFL
I'll keep working on this next week apple pie, I can think of six. How many do ya need ?
and the Washington Redskins( Timmy Smith), Denver Broncos ( Terrell Davis 6th)...the Green Bay Packers ( Ellijh Pitts 13th and John Taylor), the New York Football Giants ...Jets (Emerson Boozer 6th),
the minneasoda vikings....the San Fransico 49ers. the Oakland Raiders( Pete Banazack 5th)....the Kansas City Cheifs ( Mike Garrett 2nd).... not sure where czonka got drafted...

My bad chuck foreman was a first rounder. could of swore he was a day two guy. Gotta check the raiders guys as well.

There is one stud 30 carry a game back in this draft. Only one.
I'm sure Forte will be on their board. I like RR also...not in the first, but I like him.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/positionrptRB.htm

There is a solid crop of fullbacks in this year’s draft. Tulane RB Matt Forté will likely be converted to fullback in the pros despite having been incredibly productive as a runner, rushing for more than 200 yards in four games this season. He brings versatility and run instincts to excel in a one-back set. LSU’s Jacob Hester, Arkansas’ Peyton Hillis and Furman’s Jerome Felton all fit the bill as running backs trapped in fullback bodies and will be drafted.

cuppacoffee
11-30-2007, 10:30 AM
I really don't think Slaton is all that...

I was starting to believe that I was the only one on here who thought that.

:coffee:

76Texan
11-30-2007, 03:12 PM
tulexan, I know you love Forte.
But did you have the chance to watch the E. Car game?

I thought Chris Johnson look better than Matt in this particular game.

Anybody knows much about C.J.?

bah007
11-30-2007, 03:16 PM
tulexan, I know you love Forte.
But did you have the chance to watch the E. Car game?

I thought Chris Johnson look better than Matt in this particular game.

Anybody knows much about C.J.?

I know he's a beast.

bah007
11-30-2007, 03:24 PM
tulexan, I know you love Forte.
But did you have the chance to watch the E. Car game?

I thought Chris Johnson look better than Matt in this particular game.

Anybody knows much about C.J.?

Chris Johnson, ECU: 5-11, 195

208 carries for 1200 yds. (5.8 avg), 16 TDs.

34 rec. for 496 yds. (14.6 avg), 5 TDs.

30 KRs for 856 yds. (28.5 avg), 1 TD.

The1ApplePie
11-30-2007, 03:30 PM
Hillis would be a monster at FB in our system. A good 5th round pick that will pay off for years

beerlover
11-30-2007, 03:43 PM
Hillis would be a monster at FB in our system. A good 5th round pick that will pay off for years

I would be willing to trade down in the 4th like Rick did last year when he selected Bennett & move up a little to take Hillis, your excatly right he would be a good fit for this system, blocking, rushing, recieving & special teams :)

76Texan
11-30-2007, 03:45 PM
Chris Johnson, ECU: 5-11, 195

208 carries for 1200 yds. (5.8 avg), 16 TDs.

34 rec. for 496 yds. (14.6 avg), 5 TDs.

30 KRs for 856 yds. (28.5 avg), 1 TD.What I like to know is how he runs between tackles. In this last game, he did that well, but I don't know about other games he played. I did watch the Houston game as well, and he did well, but UH dosen't have a good defense.

I understand that he had turf-toe problem at the beginning of the year.

Honoring Earl 34
11-30-2007, 03:45 PM
The thing with RBs is they take such a beating that they tend to wear out quickly . That is unless they have a really good OL .

I'm of the mind that we're on borrowed time with the OL and DBs . The problem is , two of the things that are hardest to find are a good CB and a good LT .

Who was the last free agent LT that left their team to break the bank . Look what Nate Clements got from the Niners . Look what the Niners gave up to draft Joe Staley ... ouch .

76Texan
11-30-2007, 03:48 PM
I would be willing to trade down in the 4th like Rick did last year when he selected Bennett & move up a little to take Hillis, your excatly right he would be a good fit for this system, blocking, rushing, recieving & special teams :)
Can we afford another FB on our roster at this time?

Can we get anything for Leach or Cook?

Do we really want to trade away Leach?

bah007
11-30-2007, 03:49 PM
Can we afford another FB on our roster at this time?

Can we get anything for Leach or Cook?

Do we really want to trade away Leach?

FBs dont really have any trade value anymore.

76Texan
11-30-2007, 03:53 PM
The thing with RBs is they take such a beating that they tend to wear out quickly . That is unless they have a really good OL .

I'm of the mind that we're on borrowed time with the OL and DBs . So two of the things that are hardest to find are a good CB and a good LT .

Who was the last free agent LT that left their team to break the bank . Look what Nate Clements got from the Niners . Look what the Niners gave up to draft Joe Staley ... ouch .
I would agree with either a LT or a RB in the first.
Everything will depend on how it goes during the offseason. Right now, we're just speculating on all the positions.

badboy
11-30-2007, 04:21 PM
I would agree with either a LT or a RB in the first.
Everything will depend on how it goes during the offseason. Right now, we're just speculating on all the positions.Higher grade LT in 1st with good grade RBs in 2nd and 3rd. IMO.

Honoring Earl 34
11-30-2007, 04:45 PM
I'm posting this as a reference to who might be there and a ballpark figure to where they're ranked .

http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html

Oh yeah ... let's get a sharpie and mark out DL and QBs .

76Texan
11-30-2007, 05:26 PM
It seems like most of us would like to see the Texans trade back (probably from #10 or so) to a late round pick for an OT (Boise St., OU, OSU, BC...) and then take a RB in the 2nd or 3rd, wherever the trade back would net us.

I'm fine with that! :specnatz:

painekiller
11-30-2007, 05:30 PM
tulexan, I know you love Forte.
But did you have the chance to watch the E. Car game?

I thought Chris Johnson look better than Matt in this particular game.

Anybody knows much about C.J.?

He runs a real 4.3, and has some size, I would love the kid if he has any ball skills. (meaning I have not seen him play only reports on him, so i do not know his balls skills).

76Texan
11-30-2007, 05:48 PM
He runs a real 4.3, and has some size, I would love the kid if he has any ball skills. (meaning I have not seen him play only reports on him, so i do not know his balls skills).
I'll have to say that he looks really, really good in this game. I didn't even know about him before even though he played well against the Cougars (another game that I watched). I figure, the Coogs' D is not good at all, so I din't really pay attention. Well, the Greenwaves' D is not any better I don't think.

Still, he caught my eyes on several occasions.
Looks strong up the middle.
One time he drag a couple of guys, I think there was a LB as well, and only a third guy that brought him down.
Made a couple of good blocks in the backfield.
Looks smooth catching the ball.
Good vision, good cut and go, no dancing.

The lines, of course, was very good:
C. Johnson, RB
27 Rush, 155 yds, 2 TDs
4 Rec, 85 yds, 1 TD

But again, it may be just one game in which he's in a zone.

painekiller
11-30-2007, 07:05 PM
But again, it may be just one game in which he's in a zone.

That is the kind of lines he ahas had this season. And did I say he could fly? He is going to need to add a bit of bulk to himself, but he is the kinda back we need. Plus is is not being listed as a 1st round guy, so he is gettable .

tulexan
11-30-2007, 07:36 PM
tulexan, I know you love Forte.
But did you have the chance to watch the E. Car game?

I thought Chris Johnson look better than Matt in this particular game.

Anybody knows much about C.J.?


I did watch Chris Johnson and he did look pretty impressive.

beerlover
12-16-2007, 12:51 AM
I've had this feeling awhile that Stewart is not the type to declare early, loves school & will be much better prepared next year to fight for the #1 ranked RB taken in the draft over Felix Jones & Ian Johnson.

Bellotti was asked about Jonathan Stewart potentially leaving after this season for the NFL. As he has said before, Bellotti thinks itís most likely that Stewart will be back for his senior season, based on his conversations with Stewart.

http://ducksportsnews.com/

threetoedpete
12-16-2007, 02:31 AM
I've had this feeling awhile that Stewart is not the type to declare early, loves school & will be much better prepared next year to fight for the #1 ranked RB taken in the draft over Felix Jones & Ian Johnson.

Bellotti was asked about Jonathan Stewart potentially leaving after this season for the NFL. As he has said before, Bellotti thinks itís most likely that Stewart will be back for his senior season, based on his conversations with Stewart.

http://ducksportsnews.com/

Ian Johnon has put his paper work in. I don't like the size. But I do like the production and the fact that he played hurt this season. Not advocting him for day one at all, but if he drops into their laps day two....

The1ApplePie
12-16-2007, 10:58 AM
I think Slaton would be a better fit in our system than Stewart anyways. A great ZBS back that is a clone of Portis. He could be had in a trade down too

76Texan
12-16-2007, 11:14 AM
It seems to me that the Ducks line up in the shot gun quite a lot. But I only watch 4 games. Does anybody watch them more regularly?

How does that translate to the pro-level?

tulexan
12-16-2007, 11:20 AM
I think Slaton would be a better fit in our system than Stewart anyways. A great ZBS back that is a clone of Portis. He could be had in a trade down too

Slaton will not be a primary back in the NFL. He has too many games where he doesn't show up and like Stewart, thrives in a zone read offense where the defense has to account for the QB's running ability.

If Rodriguez stays, I'm not even sure Slaton will come out. He regressed this year and is at best a very late first round pick.

I still like Felix Jones

threetoedpete
12-18-2007, 12:15 PM
The thing with RBs is they take such a beating that they tend to wear out quickly . That is unless they have a really good OL .

I'm of the mind that we're on borrowed time with the OL and DBs . The problem is , two of the things that are hardest to find are a good CB and a good LT .

Who was the last free agent LT that left their team to break the bank . Look what Nate Clements got from the Niners . Look what the Niners gave up to draft Joe Staley ... ouch .

Agreed: The ONLY reason I'm still hot for Ray Rice, Kelvin Smith and Ian Johnson is their body of work suggests that they can take the pounding. Under normal circumstances, unless they are the second coming of Galye Sayers , LT or Berry Sanders, anything under 210 I dissmiss out of hand.
See Reggie Bush 2007.


Hillis:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161982

LonerATO
12-18-2007, 12:21 PM
I am all for Felix Jones or Rashard Mendenhall

tulexan
12-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Agreed: The ONLY reason I'm still hot for Ray Rice, Kelvin Smith and Ian Johnson is their body of work suggests that they can take the pounding. Under normal circumstances, unless they are the second coming of Galye Sayers , LT or Berry Sanders, anything under 210 I dissmiss out of hand.
See Reggie Bush 2007.


Hillis:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161982

Weight isn't as important as the height/weight ratio. Maurice Drew is under 210, but he is 5'7

badboy
12-18-2007, 12:50 PM
Agreed: The ONLY reason I'm still hot for Ray Rice, Kelvin Smith and Ian Johnson is their body of work suggests that they can take the pounding. Under normal circumstances, unless they are the second coming of Galye Sayers , LT or Berry Sanders, anything under 210 I dissmiss out of hand.
See Reggie Bush 2007.


Hillis:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161982

I am interested in Ian Johnson also. Do you think his heavy use in college will wear him out in NFL especially toward end of season?

rollinstone18
12-18-2007, 01:01 PM
I am all for Felix Jones or Rashard Mendenhall

Hopefully both will declare.

beerlover
12-18-2007, 03:21 PM
according to the AP wire (don't have link) Kevin Smith is staying in school -

"I have a lot of things that I want to work on, for me," Smith said. "I think before I enter a business where you're discussing money and your life's going to change, I want to be bigger, faster, stronger. I want to be at the top of my athletic ability before I go on to a field like that."

very impressed with that statement, I had him going late in the 1st now the 08 RB class just got thinner :cool:

YoungTexanFan
12-18-2007, 03:22 PM
Also, Alex Mac has stated that he is staying in school. One less premier C for us to draft.

threetoedpete
12-19-2007, 08:42 AM
Weight isn't as important as the height/weight ratio. Maurice Drew is under 210, but he is 5'7

And speed there two lane ? Well, I don't remeber if I posted Charlie Tolar when the guy came out...no doubt my golden rule put a bridle on me for sure . Walker is a nice back. But...his size will hold him back. Big difference in the two. I have no problem with the roster spot. But we play sixteen up here.

tulexan
12-19-2007, 10:15 AM
And speed there two lane ? Well, I don't remeber if I posted Charlie Tolar when the guy came out...no doubt my golden rule put a bridle on me for sure . Walker is a nice back. But...his size will hold him back. Big difference in the two. I have no problem with the roster spot. But we play sixteen up here.

I agree. Walker is a nice 3rd down back, but at his size would need to be much faster. He is quick like Domanick Davis, but doesn't have that breakaway speed to become a feature back. I'm a little confused why you are bringing up Walker when I was talking about Maurice Drew because he is under 210.