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Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 11:12 AM
This guys, is not our year. This is a nice product, but its still in beta so to speak. Lets not forget we have a boatload of money to spend next year. Next year we can adress most of the weaknesses we have on this team all in one offseason. When I said this was a sub .500 team, this is what I was talking about. The good news is that this team is on the rise.

Remember what this team is.

1. Schaub is going to take time. For a guy that has started 7 NFL games, he is ahead of the curve. He has great pocket presence, he has great leadership qualities. He has a live arm and throws a catchable ball. The things he needs to work on are correctable with alot of work. And if there's one thing you hear about him, he's willing to do that work.

2. This Oline is a work in progress. Between Pitt and Indy there should be some very good quality linemen coming out to the market this year. Faneca will probably be let go. We should be able to find a center.

3. The DBs need help: Was there anybody that thought that Petey was the answer? Nobody thought that the Safety positions were in the hands of the future of the organization did they?

4. We have an older RB who is going to get hurt. Can we say Mike Turner people? We are past the trade deadline. We will need to answer the RB question permeantly next year, without using a high draft pick. I don't think Duckett is the answer in free agency. There just aren't that many answers to be honest. But we knew all of this when we signed Green. He's not the RB of the future.

5. This is a young team learning to win. As sick as sunday's game was, it is part of the process. The ref's sucked. We're going to get those games sometimes and you have to find a way to win in this league. Look at how long it took the Colts to go from talented to SB champs. I had a coach who used to point to the opposition when we lost. He would tell us to look at that and remember it. Next time it will feel better when you're doing it if you appreciate what defeat tastes like. This is all part of the process folks. Hold on this is going to be a fun ride.

Mike

real
10-15-2007, 11:15 AM
Baaah humbug!

Buffi2
10-15-2007, 11:25 AM
Good post and something to keep in mind.

I'm not nearly as upset this year at the losses because I see a brighter future - last year there wasn't a snowball's chance in August.

Keeping the faith!:fans:

Goldensilence
10-15-2007, 11:32 AM
Good post Mike.Just please don't use the term product when refering to a team. I hate that phrase.

FA will be interesting this next year for sure with what will be a very healthy cap situation. I think a lot hinges on whether Sherman is still here next year.If he's gone I am willing to bet lil Shanny gets the OC position and we'd move more in the direction of a ZBS instead of this power/zone mix.

I don't know if i am sold on Turner and not sure how much he'd try and command. Honestly I think drafting one is a much better way to go.

Schaub is still a work in progess but like you said right now he's looking ahead of the curve.He looked off on some throws and other very on. We just really need to get some sort of answer at the RB position because that really dictates how Kubiak wants to run the offense. Though honestly i almost feel we need to pass to open up the run right now.

We knew this was going to be a tough stretch of games here and hurts worse our best player is still sidelined.

Double Barrel
10-15-2007, 11:34 AM
We might be a .500 team this year, but it's obvious that it's wishful thinking to hope for anything more than that.

Good points, Texanmike. We have a lot of positives to look at and a good foundation to build upon. But the fact is that we lack depth and quality talent at key positions. Great teams are not built overnight, so we just have to keep in mind that this team is better than the 2006 and 2005 teams and will continue to improve under Kubiak's leadership.

powerfuldragon
10-15-2007, 12:21 PM
what's wrong with expecting a winning football team?

Marcus
10-15-2007, 12:36 PM
why wouldn't we use a high draft pick on a rb? just asking....

We probably will, as long as it isn't a reach when we're on the clock. That's the deal, though. We have plenty of holes to fill. Which one wouldn't be a reach.

Double Barrel
10-15-2007, 12:54 PM
what's wrong with expecting a winning football team?

Nothing....especially if you are a Colts or Patriots fan! :whistle:

real
10-15-2007, 12:58 PM
I don't think this past game serves as a representaion of how this team is shaping up, but I think this next game and how our guys play will speak volumes...

If players come out uninspired next week then that won't speak too well on the coaching staff...

Shaft75
10-15-2007, 12:59 PM
Could we please hold off on this talk until the season is halfway over or something??? The team's complexion may revert back to what it was with the return of maybe, umm I don't know, it's best player...

It's week 6 guys...

Double Barrel
10-15-2007, 01:03 PM
I don't think this past game serves as a representaion of how this team is shaping up, but I think this next game and how our guys play will speak volumes...

If players come out uninspired next week then that won't speak too well on the coaching staff...

Losing 3 out of the last 4 games is indicative of what this team is about, IMO. We lack two basic ingredients: a consistent running game and a consistent pass rush. Without these two components, everything we try to establish is built upon sand. Our entire gameplan seems to revolve around the very things we lack, which is perplexing to say the least.

The next game is an important one, though. The Titans have a solid running game and a great defense, and if VY comes out with a chip on his shoulder (again), I think our only hope is for our ENTIRE team to come out inspired and swinging hard for 60 minutes. Otherwise, it's going to be a long, long day with a lot of pissed off Texans fans leaving the stadium tasting a 3-4 losing record.

Could we please hold off on this talk until the season is halfway over or something??? The team's complexion may revert back to what it was with the return of maybe, umm I don't know, it's best player...

It's week 6 guys...

While I certainly agree with you, your point indicates that we are not a 'playoff caliber' team if so much rides on one skill player. Besides, our defense is healthy and they look like crap. AJ can't help that side of the ball except to keep them off the field.

hollywood_texan
10-15-2007, 01:04 PM
As this season rolls on through, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that even though things are better, they aren't by much.

Kubiak has had two drafts and two free agent signing seasons, and the only position that has improved greatly is the QB spot.

I know it takes some time to get things rolling, but the defensive front seven still has big problems with all the investment.

More worrisome to me though is Kubiak's play calling and clock management, particularly the last few weeks. There seems to be zero creativity or balls. Not mention, Kubiak at times, just gets out coached.

We'll see how things shake out the rest of this season once AJ gets back, but it seems clear to me the Texans still have the same serious holes that were here before Kubiak came in with the exception of the QB position.

Probably one or two players can completely change the makeup of this squad into a monster, but it's probably going to have to come through the draft. Getting those type of players through free agency is too expensive and generally don't have a high success rate anyway.

There is one mitigating factor though for Kubiak, the bad luck of referee calls and injuries just seems too much for any team to handle. But, I still think Kubiak can do a lot better in player personnel and play calling.

The remaining part of this season is going to be very interesting to say the least...

Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 01:06 PM
why wouldn't we use a high draft pick on a rb? just asking....


Just my opinion, but there doesn't seem to be a marquee name available at CB. I think you absolutely have to go DB in the first round, no second rounder and the 3rd will either be OLB, OL or DB. I think this year we're fortunate that between FA and the draft, we should be able to fill most of your holes.

Mike

Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 01:11 PM
As this season rolls on through, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that even though things are better, they aren't by much.

Kubiak has had two drafts and two free agent signing seasons, and the only position that has improved greatly is the QB spot.



I would argue quite a bit with this statement. I'd say the following positions are significantly better than when he got here.


QB
WR2
RB
TE
LDE
RDE
MLB
NB
P

are all bettter than when he arrived.

Mike

dickieb
10-15-2007, 01:11 PM
All we need to do is win the next 10 games. We just got our losing done early in the year, we sweep the Titans, split with Colts and Jags, and win all the other games - easy:) !

hollywood_texan
10-15-2007, 01:12 PM
We lack two basic ingredients: a consistent running game and a consistent pass rush. Without these two components, everything we try to establish is built upon sand. Our entire gameplan seems to revolve around the very things we lack, which is perplexing to say the least.


Very well said. Just to add, kind of what I already said in a previous post, this is what really concerns me, Kubiak has had two drafts and free agent signings and will still have these same issues before Kubiak came in.

It really revolves around the draft. Getting impact players through free agency is too expensive and is a crap shoot like the draft.

I am very happy to have Schaub, but those two 2nd round draft picks are going to make things a lot more difficult for Kubiak.

Sure, we addressed the most important position, but now we have fewer bullets to take care of the rest of the issues, which still haven't been addressed.

Like you said, perplexing to say the least...

Leahmic223
10-15-2007, 01:14 PM
I would argue quite a bit with this statement. I'd say the following positions are significantly better than when he got here.


QB
WR2
RB
TE
LDE
RDE
MLB
NB
P

are all bettter than when he arrived.

Mike

I agree except at RB. Just because Domanick was doing a good job for us then, I will always wonder what Domanick would be able to accomplish in this offense(now that we have a actual QB now), he was exactly the type of back Kubiak likes.

Leahmic223
10-15-2007, 01:15 PM
All we need to do is win the next 10 games. We just got our losing done early in the year, we sweep the Titans, split with Colts and Jags, and win all the other games - easy:) !

Hey...its possible I like the way you think. I'll take it one game at time though, Titans first.

real
10-15-2007, 01:17 PM
Losing 3 out of the last 4 games is indicative of what this team is about, IMO. We lack two basic ingredients: a consistent running game and a consistent pass rush.

I respect that, but I disagree. Definitely can understand and respect that though.


It really just depends on your perspective. You say we lack two basic components, but overall our D-line has performed well...Even the elite teams don't have D-lines that play lights out or stellar every week...And nothing really has changed with our running game besides McKinney and Green the last few weeks...

I personally believe a more true representation of this team was our showings in the pre-season combined with our first three games (Colts included) vs. our last 3 games....

I think Jacoby, Andre, Steve and Ahman really change the offense and those are the 4 common factors on our offense that haven't been in the works too much over the past three games...

But like I said...It just depends on your perspective...

I don't think our first three games were flukes...I think when healthy we are closer to a team that can compete with the Colts vs a team that gets blown out by the Jags...I think we are closer to a team that can be productive on the ground than one who is totally ineffective...I think we are closer to a team where Mario has 3 sacks and Amobi has 4, than we are to a team where neither one of them was a factor yesterday...

Was our pre-season and first three games a fluke while these last three games closer to the truth ? The Texans played well early on...well enough to get folks excited...

But in this world of what have you done for me lately people tend to forget the good things that happened in the past and focus on the negatives of the present...but so goes life...

hollywood_texan
10-15-2007, 01:17 PM
I would argue quite a bit with this statement. I'd say the following positions are significantly better than when he got here.


QB
WR2
RB
TE
LDE
RDE
MLB
NB
P

are all bettter than when he arrived.

Mike

Let's see, the Texans still have big problems in scoring in the red zone and end up kicking field goals. Still can't run the football on offense. The defense still can't stop the run, the pass rush is pathetic, and coverage is slow and sloppy.

Like I said, the players are better, but it isn't by much to really make a difference in results on the field.

The Texans may get to .500 this year, but it doesn't seem like things are moving to turn the corner.

Once AJ gets back, it will be interesting to see how the offense responds. The Texans need to score points to win because the defense still has the same problems.

Leahmic223
10-15-2007, 01:25 PM
I respect that, but I disagree. Definitely can understand and respect that though.


It really just depends on your perspective. You say we lack two basic components, but overall our D-line has performed well...Even the elite teams don't have D-lines that play lights out or stellar every week...

I personally believe a more true representation of this team was our showings in the pre-season combined with our first three games (Colts included) vs. our last 3 games....

I think Jacoby, Andre, Steve and Ahman really change the offense and those are the three common factors on our offense that haven't been in the works too much over the past three games...

But like I said...It just depends on your perspective...

I don't think our first three games were flukes...I think when healthy we are closer to a team that can compete with the Colts vs a team that gets blown out by the Jags...

But in this world of what have you done for me lately people tend to forget the good things that happened in the past and focus on the negatives of the present...but so goes life...

Exactly. People forget what Andre brings to this team. He meant by just being out there that a Receiver was open because he drew the attention. And if you play singe coverage man he's still good enough to exploit it.

I also don't think our first three games were flukes, I think they were legit. Also I think the defense came out playing hard they gave our offense ALL the chance in the world to leave that 1st qtr with a 14+ point lead than they got wore down. I don't remember being 1-5 in the redzone with Andre in there, you line the guy up with Owen Daniels in the red zone and defenders fall back just enough to allow a small run.

I am very confident that when Andre is back and ready, that people will see how much he really meant to this team and how much he changes things.

Shaft75
10-15-2007, 01:30 PM
Exactly. People forget what Andre brings to this team. He meant by just being out there that a Receiver was open because he drew the attention. And if you play singe coverage man he's still good enough to exploit it.

I also don't think our first three games were flukes, I think they were legit. Also I think the defense came out playing hard they gave our offense ALL the chance in the world to leave that 1st qtr with a 14+ point lead than they got wore down. I don't remember being 1-5 in the redzone with Andre in there, you line the guy up with Owen Daniels in the red zone and defenders fall back just enough to allow a small run.

I am very confident that when Andre is back and ready, that people will see how much he really meant to this team and how much he changes things.


It's amazing that you actually have to point that out. What were the Eagles without TO, the Cowboys without TO, the Vikings without Moss...etc.?

Having a pro bowl player on crutches is bad news for any team.

Texans Horror
10-15-2007, 01:39 PM
Great points as always, Mike. I knew it would be a good season because as fans we'd see some definite positive change. I knew it'd also be a very frustrating season because everything is not quite there yet. Everything is in development, and a lot of the team's problems (e.g., penalties and clock management) will be solved by consistent playing time. It's Kube's second year as a head coach, and Matt's first as a QB. Matt's also still being protected by the same line as last year. It's obvious to me that is a major part of the problem.

The biggest problem going on right now is getting into the endzone. I'm hoping that having AJ back in the mix will bring it all together. At the same time, the Texans came close on several occassions, like Davis' near-TD.

They are a good team, but they are also a couple cogs in the wheel away from a great team. I think most would agree there's a combination of o-line and DB that has to be addressed through the draft or free agency.

real
10-15-2007, 01:42 PM
The Texans may get to .500 this year, but it doesn't seem like things are moving to turn the corner.


Seriously ?




Like........seriously ?

ATX
10-15-2007, 01:43 PM
Even if this was our year.....The Pats or Colts are going to win the SB.

Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Let's see, the Texans still have big problems in scoring in the red zone and end up kicking field goals. Still can't run the football on offense. The defense still can't stop the run, the pass rush is pathetic, and coverage is slow and sloppy.

Like I said, the players are better, but it isn't by much to really make a difference in results on the field.

The Texans may get to .500 this year, but it doesn't seem like things are moving to turn the corner.

Once AJ gets back, it will be interesting to see how the offense responds. The Texans need to score points to win because the defense still has the same problems.

Well we have problems in the redzone because the offensive line is still a joke.

The field shrinks if we're in the redzone and we don't have a guy, with AJ out, who can make the other team really worry about the fade route. When we can run AJ on fades that will open up an entire side of the field and you'll see us go to OD more.

I think its a stretch to say we can't stop the run. We didn't tackle well last game but up until that point we have stopped the run fairly well. Our pass defense is our problem.

Mike

gjmac2
10-15-2007, 02:22 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Texans have something like $30 million coming off the books next year? If I'm not mistaken, Gary Walker, Todd Wade, Carr, Wong and others finnaly come off the cap next year.

We should be able to strengthen this team by leaps and bounds next year.

Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 02:24 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Texans have something like $30 million coming off the books next year? If I'm not mistaken, Gary Walker, Todd Wade, Carr, Wong and others finnaly come off the cap next year.

We should be able to strengthen this team by leaps and bounds next year.

You are correct. That's why I said we were laying a foundation this year.. and next year we'll be adding window dressing.

Mike

utahmark
10-15-2007, 02:28 PM
you guys are depressing. that game really wasnt that bad. we outplayed them for 3 quarters. our defense was just left on the field to long. i can think of 4 plays that gave them 28 points.

lets see what happens next week before we give up on the season. im sure if we win most of you will be talking super bowl again.

Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 02:56 PM
you guys are depressing. that game really wasnt that bad. we outplayed them for 3 quarters. our defense was just left on the field to long. i can think of 4 plays that gave them 28 points.

lets see what happens next week before we give up on the season. im sure if we win most of you will be talking super bowl again.

Either you're not talking about me or you've never read anything I've ever written. I don't think my projections or outlook on the season have changed much from game to game to be honest.

Mike

DBCooper
10-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Well, I guess I need to crawl under a rock and stop cheering for my team, since this isn't their year.

And I was having so much fun......................

badboy
10-15-2007, 03:06 PM
Colts beat Jacksonville next Sunday and we beat Tennessee. We are right back in wild card romp. Both should happen. Young will be pumped but so will AJ. Our pro bowl WR trumps their QB/RB.

30 million is significant in FA and by then we will know how Bennett is doing. His physical stats 6'0 197 lbs (Texans Roster) estimated 40 @ 4.45 to 4.55
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/5767.html

http://www.ontheclockdraft.com/profile/Fred_Bennett/1255

say he can do the job but time will tell. Assante Samuel will be available for a big price if necessary. Either way we can better our defense in 2008.

Some think LT can be remedied in FA but I'm not too sure.

It is obvious that LT and RB is not working out. We need to address one in first round. Spencer had little to place our optimism on even if he can come back next year. Green needs to turn it up soon. As of now, he and Dayne and Gado need to be cut end of year.

We do not need TEs or WR next year but I was hoping our TEs and Fb would be used more in red zone. Leech got one from sage

Texanmike02
10-15-2007, 04:03 PM
Well, I guess I need to crawl under a rock and stop cheering for my team, since this isn't their year.

And I was having so much fun......................

I didn't say don't root for them. There is however, noting wrong with acknowlidging the fact that they have limitations to what they can do.

Mike

hollywood_texan
10-15-2007, 04:06 PM
Well we have problems in the redzone because the offensive line is still a joke.

The field shrinks if we're in the redzone and we don't have a guy, with AJ out, who can make the other team really worry about the fade route. When we can run AJ on fades that will open up an entire side of the field and you'll see us go to OD more.

I think its a stretch to say we can't stop the run. We didn't tackle well last game but up until that point we have stopped the run fairly well. Our pass defense is our problem.

Mike

You are not reading my posts. First, I said that Kubiak improved the QB position significantly. Second, I said it will be interesting to see what happens when AJ gets back. You respond to my posts taking issue with something I agree with you on.

However, it's very simple, the Texans are going to have to score a lot of points to be win ball games consistently because the defense is still what it was when Kubiak came in. Which is the same with the offensive line.

Yes, Kubiak has improved the overall talent, but it hasn't really improved to show it's a better product on the field. I believe some of that is due to Kubiak's poor play calling and bad clock management.

The Texans probably need 2 more big time players, probably at LT and RB to turn the corner. Finding those type of guys in free agency is too expensive and you are not going to get top tier. They need to get it in the draft. Schaub is the real deal (we also paid a dear price) and I wouldn't want to leave him hanging in the wind without the right firepower.

As an aside, generally, free agency is for filling out your team, not building it...

So, with all this free cap space coming up, it doesn't need to be filled up with overpriced free agents.

infantrycak
10-15-2007, 04:16 PM
Yes, Kubiak has improved the overall talent, but it hasn't really improved to show it's a better product on the field.

It's absurd to say this team is not markedly improved over last year and even more so above the year before that. One simple stat shows the nature of the difference--last year in 16 games--25 plays over 20 yds and 3 over 40 yds. In just 6 games the Texans have 17 plays over 20 yds and 5 over 40 yds. This offense firing on 5 cylinders is far more dangerous than anything the Texans have ever fielded before.

hollywood_texan
10-15-2007, 04:38 PM
It's absurd to say this team is not markedly improved over last year and even more so above the year before that. One simple stat shows the nature of the difference--last year in 16 games--25 plays over 20 yds and 3 over 40 yds. In just 6 games the Texans have 17 plays over 20 yds and 5 over 40 yds. This offense firing on 5 cylinders is far more dangerous than anything the Texans have ever fielded before.

It's not absurd if you look at how this team has played the last 3 weeks and with the same frustrating parts of the games that seem to rear their head regardless of how the offense does.

Having AJ out is a huge blow to this team. But, what it has shown us is that this team is really about two players, Schaub and AJ.

I know I am slightling Demeco and Dunta a bit here, but the defense still stinks. Unfortunatley, I don't think Mario is going to live up to expectations. We'll see....

Without the Texans scoring some serious points, they are in big trouble. Which, if you think about it, isn't much different from Capers in year 4. Same as that time, no running game! Sound famaliar? Not trying to changed anyone's mind, just showing a different perspective.

I am really disappointed in Kubiak's coaching since AJ has gone down.

To sum up, I think the Texans need to get 2 more star players (which should be on offense because I feel very confident Schaub can do his part and more to make that investment pay off) and Kubiak needs to improve his gameplanning/play calling and clock management in order for the Texans to turn the corner.

real
10-15-2007, 04:44 PM
Maybe Kubiak can sign up for a training course or something..

awtysst
10-15-2007, 04:49 PM
We probably will, as long as it isn't a reach when we're on the clock. That's the deal, though. We have plenty of holes to fill. Which one wouldn't be a reach.

We need to take BPA. Teams get burned when they reach or go for a specific player becuase they are in need of a position. Sadly the Texans have a lot of holes that need fixin. I say BPA aside from QB, DL, FB, TE, P, or K. We could use help at every other position.

dalemurphy
10-15-2007, 04:53 PM
It's absurd to say this team is not markedly improved over last year and even more so above the year before that. One simple stat shows the nature of the difference--last year in 16 games--25 plays over 20 yds and 3 over 40 yds. In just 6 games the Texans have 17 plays over 20 yds and 5 over 40 yds. This offense firing on 5 cylinders is far more dangerous than anything the Texans have ever fielded before.

Agreed... Look, when Indy fans look at their schedule and figure on 12 or 13 wins, they consider at Jacksonville as one of the losses. So far we've lost the two games we all expected to, one we shouldn't have, and won everything else. It still appears we will win between 8-10 games this year.

What we've learned since preseason:

1. We have a very good NFL QB, for sure!
2. Okoye looks like the real deal.
3. our WR depth is much better than anyone thought
4. Rick Smith knows how to draft
5. Travis Johnson isn't a complete bust.
6. Mario is somewhere in between the debate right now(not a bust and not a stud)


I can't think of any problems we've encountered that everyone wasn't aware of going into the season:

1. Flanagan is not very good.
2. Our LT situation is going to be below average until Spencer returns or it's addressed this off-season
3. Losing Chris Taylor was bad for our RB situation
4. AGreen will have trouble playing 16 games
5. our CB2 and safeties are a weakness.
6. We lack a pure speed rusher to get consistent pressure on the QBs.
7. Richard Smith is not a very good D.C.- he's not awful but he can be out-coached.
8. We don't have long term answers at OLB.
9. Injuries to a lot of our starters will cause the team to struggle.


I'm just not sure why anyone would be discouraged about the direction and play of the team so far. Don't get me wrong, I had visions of being 4-2 and in the thick of things right now, but a loss at Jacksonville isn't reason to be down on the direction of this team. I'd say that the fact so many of us expected to play better and/or win yesterday is an indication that the team is offering a lot of hope to us.

alphajoker
10-15-2007, 05:03 PM
It's absurd to say this team is not markedly improved over last year and even more so above the year before that. One simple stat shows the nature of the difference--last year in 16 games--25 plays over 20 yds and 3 over 40 yds. In just 6 games the Texans have 17 plays over 20 yds and 5 over 40 yds. This offense firing on 5 cylinders is far more dangerous than anything the Texans have ever fielded before.

Agreed... Look, when Indy fans look at their schedule and figure on 12 or 13 wins, they consider at Jacksonville as one of the losses. So far we've lost the two games we all expected to, one we shouldn't have, and won everything else. It still appears we will win between 8-10 games this year.

What we've learned since preseason:

1. We have a very good NFL QB, for sure!
2. Okoye looks like the real deal.
3. our WR depth is much better than anyone thought
4. Rick Smith knows how to draft
5. Travis Johnson isn't a complete bust.
6. Mario is somewhere in between the debate right now(not a bust and not a stud)


I can't think of any problems we've encountered that everyone wasn't aware of going into the season:

1. Flanagan is not very good.
2. Our LT situation is going to be below average until Spencer returns or it's addressed this off-season
3. Losing Chris Taylor was bad for our RB situation
4. AGreen will have trouble playing 16 games
5. our CB2 and safeties are a weakness.
6. We lack a pure speed rusher to get consistent pressure on the QBs.
7. Richard Smith is not a very good D.C.- he's not awful but he can be out-coached.
8. We don't have long term answers at OLB.
9. Injuries to a lot of our starters will cause the team to struggle.


I'm just not sure why anyone would be discouraged about the direction and play of the team so far. Don't get me wrong, I had visions of being 4-2 and in the thick of things right now, but a loss at Jacksonville isn't reason to be down on the direction of this team. I'd say that the fact so many of us expected to play better and/or win yesterday is an indication that the team is offering a lot of hope to us.

Totally agree with both posts. We finally have a competitive team, and although they got whipped yesterday, this is still the best team we've had to date. I really thought myself, that they would beat the Jags and be 4-2, but Jax was a lot more prepared and physical for this game. Maybe the wake-up call Jax got from Tennessee will work for us too, after allowing over 200 yards rushing on us.

prostock101
10-15-2007, 05:56 PM
Great post, Mike. You read my genius mind. Even Kub admitted at the start of the season that we would not be playoff team this year and I think the early success had a lot of people thinking that we were better than we were. If we have a good draft, stay healthy, and make some quality FA pickups, then 2008 should be a great year.

"Genius since 1952"

BeerTastesLikeVictory
10-15-2007, 06:43 PM
Totally agree with both posts. We finally have a competitive team, and although they got whipped yesterday, this is still the best team we've had to date. I really thought myself, that they would beat the Jags and be 4-2, but Jax was a lot more prepared and physical for this game. Maybe the wake-up call Jax got from Tennessee will work for us too, after allowing over 200 yards rushing on us.

Speaking of the Rushing yards allowed, is it just me or did anyone else notice (if you were watching on TV) that the announcers were praising the defense by said we were knocking on the door of being top 10. That was I think (would have to rewatch to be sure) during the 3rd and 17 when MJD broke loose on the screen pass. It was all down hill after that. It was the announcers and refs that threw the Kybosh on that game.

Texanmike02
10-16-2007, 12:47 AM
Guys one of the things I was trying to say with this whole thread... is that we are a young team... we have a chance to win every week... but we also have a chance to lose... I know you can say that with any team... but with young teams you can go out and blow the doors off an opponent favored by 14 one week and then lose to someone you're favored by 7 against the next week.

Mike

bigfan77801
10-16-2007, 01:04 AM
Remember, as I said in a previous post and thread: this is the 2nd season under Smithiak, it is going to take some time.:fans:

76Texan
10-16-2007, 01:04 AM
If we look at the Titans line-up, I think they might be younger than us!

DBCooper
10-16-2007, 10:32 AM
I didn't say don't root for them. There is however, noting wrong with acknowlidging the fact that they have limitations to what they can do.

Mike


We are painfully aware of the limitations of this team. That is not the point. This is about next week, the next game. We are in this race up until we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. I'll talk about next year in the off-season.

And you are right, we should be better next year, but this week it's time to take care of the "flaming thumbtack children of Uranus"!

I'm not ready to throw in the towel.

Texanmike02
10-16-2007, 03:51 PM
We are painfully aware of the limitations of this team. That is not the point. This is about next week, the next game. We are in this race up until we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. I'll talk about next year in the off-season.

And you are right, we should be better next year, but this week it's time to take care of the "flaming thumbtack children of Uranus"!

I'm not ready to throw in the towel.


That was the point. People wern't acknowledging the limitations early on. I was just pointing out that this team is about what we thought they were. Better in WR's obviously.. but outside of that... this is what we expected. Don't be distraught or upset over it. This is part of a team growing up.

Mike

real
10-16-2007, 04:02 PM
That was the point. People wern't acknowledging the limitations early on. I was just pointing out that this team is about what we thought they were. Better in WR's obviously.. but outside of that... this is what we expected. Don't be distraught or upset over it. This is part of a team growing up.

Mike

I don't think your point has been proven...


We've played more good football this year than we've played bad football...

3andOUT
10-16-2007, 04:27 PM
This guys, is not our year. This is a nice product, but its still in beta so to speak. Lets not forget we have a boatload of money to spend next year. Next year we can adress most of the weaknesses we have on this team all in one offseason. When I said this was a sub .500 team, this is what I was talking about. The good news is that this team is on the rise.

Remember what this team is.

1. Schaub is going to take time. For a guy that has started 7 NFL games, he is ahead of the curve. He has great pocket presence, he has great leadership qualities. He has a live arm and throws a catchable ball. The things he needs to work on are correctable with alot of work. And if there's one thing you hear about him, he's willing to do that work.

2. This Oline is a work in progress. Between Pitt and Indy there should be some very good quality linemen coming out to the market this year. Faneca will probably be let go. We should be able to find a center.

3. The DBs need help: Was there anybody that thought that Petey was the answer? Nobody thought that the Safety positions were in the hands of the future of the organization did they?

4. We have an older RB who is going to get hurt. Can we say Mike Turner people? We are past the trade deadline. We will need to answer the RB question permeantly next year, without using a high draft pick. I don't think Duckett is the answer in free agency. There just aren't that many answers to be honest. But we knew all of this when we signed Green. He's not the RB of the future.

5. This is a young team learning to win. As sick as sunday's game was, it is part of the process. The ref's sucked. We're going to get those games sometimes and you have to find a way to win in this league. Look at how long it took the Colts to go from talented to SB champs. I had a coach who used to point to the opposition when we lost. He would tell us to look at that and remember it. Next time it will feel better when you're doing it if you appreciate what defeat tastes like. This is all part of the process folks. Hold on this is going to be a fun ride.

Mike

Nice, intelligent post man! I agree with you. Everyone jumped the gun a little at 2-0 but that's only natural when you've been following a slow horse for the past 5 years. All I ask for is improvement. I want to see each guy playing better and better as the season goes on. I want to see us eliminate bone-head mistakes and ridiculous penalites and I want to see us take care of the ball.

As far as officiating goes, we got the short end Sunday and it wasn't the first nor will it be the last time. The refs were NOT the reason we lost though. We had a chance to go up 10-0 and put the Jags on their heels but we didn't take care of the football. That is just one instance of us shooting ourselves (6-7 times) in the foot. We didn't play well enough to win and didn't deserve to win a division game on the road.

This isn't September anymore, good teams are kicking it in gear this time of year and we have a lot of holes. Just keep getting better Texans

Texanmike02
10-16-2007, 08:02 PM
I don't think your point has been proven...


We've played more good football this year than we've played bad football...

My point was when we're good... we can be really good... but everyone knows that... but when we're bad... we're really really bad. Have we really played more good football than bad? Atlanta, Miami,Jags... all bad KC and Carolina were good wins and Indy we played poorly and then good.... Sounds like a fair mix to me.

Mike

real
10-16-2007, 08:17 PM
My point was when we're good... we can be really good... but everyone knows that... but when we're bad... we're really really bad. Have we really played more good football than bad? Atlanta, Miami,Jags... all bad KC and Carolina were good wins and Indy we played poorly and then good.... Sounds like a fair mix to me.

Mike

Yes...

I think we have seen more good football than bad football from this team...


If it were the other way around I doubt you'd have waited til the end of week six to start this thread...

frequentfliertx
10-16-2007, 08:24 PM
I don't know. Losing to lowly Atlanta. Barely beating Miami (THANK YOU, KRIS BROWN! You're a godsend!) And getting ass-whooped against Jacksonville. I see this team as being mediocre at best. They can't be struggling against teams like these! I predict an 8-8 finish.

Texanmike02
10-16-2007, 08:54 PM
Yes...

I think we have seen more good football than bad football from this team...


If it were the other way around I doubt you'd have waited til the end of week six to start this thread...

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying. We've certainly seen more good than in the past... but this thread was meant to remind us what this team is. That this time there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Mike

76Texan
10-16-2007, 09:10 PM
I'm sure Mike has been consistent.
Personally, I've stated in pre-season that I expect this team to be competitive.
And with normal wear and tear, there's no excuse not to get to 8-8.
But 9-7 is more along the line that I always believe we can achieve.

Conference split 3-3 and 6-4 give and take.

Texanmike02
10-16-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm sure Mike has been consistent.
Personally, I've stated in pre-season that I expect this team to be competitive.
And with normal wear and tear, there's no excuse not to get to 8-8.
But 9-7 is more along the line that I always believe we can achieve.

Conference split 3-3 and 6-4 give and take.

I've tried to be.. but it really doesn't have much to do with the thread... its more about the fact that we all knew limitations of the team.. we've seen we were right for the most part... and that there is no need to panic


Mike

Ells1626
10-17-2007, 02:27 PM
Just my opinion, but there doesn't seem to be a marquee name available at CB. I think you absolutely have to go DB in the first round, no second rounder and the 3rd will either be OLB, OL or DB. I think this year we're fortunate that between FA and the draft, we should be able to fill most of your holes.

Mike

I agree with you analysis on the draft, but who do you want to target in the offseason? I think we all know your love for Michael Turner, but I think depending on if Ahman Green stays healthy the remainder of the year, then we will keep him for another year and draft a running back in the third. Then are future will be whomever we draft and Chris Taylor at running back and address some other needs in the offseason. Granted this all depends on if Ahman can stay healthy.

Texanmike02
10-18-2007, 12:21 AM
I agree with you analysis on the draft, but who do you want to target in the offseason? I think we all know your love for Michael Turner, but I think depending on if Ahman Green stays healthy the remainder of the year, then we will keep him for another year and draft a running back in the third. Then are future will be whomever we draft and Chris Taylor at running back and address some other needs in the offseason. Granted this all depends on if Ahman can stay healthy.

IMHO, even if Green stays healthy this year, you now know that he's one year older and more likely to be injured again. I think the focus this year was getting ready for next year.. and I want to start that run with a guy I can count on.

Mike

DBCooper
10-19-2007, 11:15 AM
I think the focus this year was getting ready for next year..
Mike


I see, that's why AJ's not playing, so he can be ready for next season.

Maybe they should sit Schaub more so he will be healthy next year.

You know DeMeco needs a little rest.........

Dallas_Texan
10-19-2007, 05:54 PM
Agreed... Look, when Indy fans look at their schedule and figure on 12 or 13 wins, they consider at Jacksonville as one of the losses. So far we've lost the two games we all expected to, one we shouldn't have, and won everything else. It still appears we will win between 8-10 games this year.

What we've learned since preseason:

1. We have a very good NFL QB, for sure!
2. Okoye looks like the real deal.
3. our WR depth is much better than anyone thought
4. Rick Smith knows how to draft
5. Travis Johnson isn't a complete bust.
6. Mario is somewhere in between the debate right now(not a bust and not a stud)


I can't think of any problems we've encountered that everyone wasn't aware of going into the season:

1. Flanagan is not very good.
2. Our LT situation is going to be below average until Spencer returns or it's addressed this off-season
3. Losing Chris Taylor was bad for our RB situation
4. AGreen will have trouble playing 16 games
5. our CB2 and safeties are a weakness.
6. We lack a pure speed rusher to get consistent pressure on the QBs.
7. Richard Smith is not a very good D.C.- he's not awful but he can be out-coached.
8. We don't have long term answers at OLB.
9. Injuries to a lot of our starters will cause the team to struggle.


I'm just not sure why anyone would be discouraged about the direction and play of the team so far. Don't get me wrong, I had visions of being 4-2 and in the thick of things right now, but a loss at Jacksonville isn't reason to be down on the direction of this team. I'd say that the fact so many of us expected to play better and/or win yesterday is an indication that the team is offering a lot of hope to us.

I totally agree. The negatives you listed were EXACTLY what we all thought at the beginning but here's the good news:

1. 4th round in the draft
2. Spencer returns (hopefully)
3. 1st round of draft
4. We can use him as a secondary back
5. Resign Dunta, Bennett plays better, 30MM in salary cap to get a GREAT coverage FS
6. Pick up a big name pass rushing DE in FA
7. Let Bush take over DC
8. 3rd round pick - OLB
9. Suddenly we have depth!

Recap

FA - BIG NAME Pass Rushing DE, resign DROB, Coverage FS
Draft:
1st - RB
3rd - OLB
4th - C
5-7th - BPA

That will be a great team!

dickieb
10-20-2007, 11:21 AM
I totally agree. The negatives you listed were EXACTLY what we all thought at the beginning but here's the good news:

1. 4th round in the draft
2. Spencer returns (hopefully)
3. 1st round of draft
4. We can use him as a secondary back
5. Resign Dunta, Bennett plays better, 30MM in salary cap to get a GREAT coverage FS
6. Pick up a big name pass rushing DE in FA
7. Let Bush take over DC
8. 3rd round pick - OLB
9. Suddenly we have depth!

Recap

FA - BIG NAME Pass Rushing DE, resign DROB, Coverage FS
Draft:
1st - RB
3rd - OLB
4th - C
5-7th - BPA

That will be a great team!

I hate to burst your bubble, but as long as Kubiak and Rick Smith keep trying to be like Denver I don't think we will draft a RB in the first round.

The Pencil Neck
10-20-2007, 12:59 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but as long as Kubiak and Rick Smith keep trying to be like Denver I don't think we will draft a RB in the first round.

I hate to burst your bubble bursting but I don't think they're trying that hard to be like Denver. If they're up in the first round and there's a good running back that they really like staring them in the face, I think they'll take him. From all reports I've heard, Kubiak was really considering trying to trade up to get Maroney a couple of drafts ago.

dickieb
10-20-2007, 08:43 PM
We shall see, I hope that's the case. I would hate us to pass up a great player with our pick especially if we have a need at the position. I just have a feeling they will avoid RB's in the first. Do you think they would have drafted Adrian Peterson if he fell one more spot to us, or still gone with Okoye?

The Pencil Neck
10-20-2007, 08:50 PM
We shall see, I hope that's the case. I would hate us to pass up a great player with our pick especially if we have a need at the position. I just have a feeling they will avoid RB's in the first. Do you think they would have drafted Adrian Peterson if he fell one more spot to us, or still gone with Okoye?

I didn't expect either Okoye or Peterson to drop to us at 10.

I think they would have gone with Peterson if he had dropped. BUT. No one really knows for sure. Everyone puts together all these draft forecasts and even the "experts" never get it right. I mean... not very many people were expecting the Vikes to take Peterson, the Redskins to take Landry, or the Dolphins to skip Quinn and take Ginn.

nunusguy
10-20-2007, 09:06 PM
I dunno what your definition of "our year" would be, but I think its premature
to conclude that this year is a success, failure, or break-even at this point.

ObsiWan
10-20-2007, 09:19 PM
We shall see, I hope that's the case. I would hate us to pass up a great player with our pick especially if we have a need at the position. I just have a feeling they will avoid RB's in the first. Do you think they would have drafted Adrian Peterson if he fell one more spot to us, or still gone with Okoye?

first, AP would have had to drop three spots as he was drafted #7 and we picked at #10

second, assuming both were available, I think we would still have gone with Okoye. We had already signed Green in the off-season and I'd bet money that, at draft time, Kubiak was thinking his RB stable was going to consist of Green, Taylor, and Dayne (so help me I don't know what Kubiak sees in him). Gado, Lundy, and Walker were there to push any slackers (Dayne) off the squad.

Unfortunately, Taylor went down way early, Green can't stay on the field, Gado is hot and cold (mostly cold), and sadly, Dayne is who we, the fans, thought he was.

I hope Kubiak keeps to his philosophy of not depending on anyone that's on currently IR to ever return and drafts accordingly. By that I mean he drafts to replace Charles Spencer, Brandon Harrison, and Chris Taylor. I like all three guys, but it remains to be seen if either of them will reach the pre-injury potential.

A Texan
10-21-2007, 08:30 AM
This guys, is not our year. This is a nice product, but its still in beta so to speak. Lets not forget we have a boatload of money to spend next year. Next year we can adress most of the weaknesses we have on this team all in one offseason. When I said this was a sub .500 team, this is what I was talking about. The good news is that this team is on the rise.


Another fan giving up and using the "wait until next year" dodge. Pretty soon someone will be saying "Let's lose as many as we can so we can get a better draft pick".

infantrycak
10-21-2007, 09:05 AM
I hate to burst your bubble bursting but I don't think they're trying that hard to be like Denver. If they're up in the first round and there's a good running back that they really like staring them in the face, I think they'll take him. From all reports I've heard, Kubiak was really considering trying to trade up to get Maroney a couple of drafts ago.

We shall see, I hope that's the case. I would hate us to pass up a great player with our pick especially if we have a need at the position. I just have a feeling they will avoid RB's in the first. Do you think they would have drafted Adrian Peterson if he fell one more spot to us, or still gone with Okoye?

Pencil is right--they are more than willing to take a RB in the 1st and the "Denver" rule needs to die a merciful death.

The Texans tried to trade to get the 26th pick to get DeAngelo Williams by offering 2nd and 4th round picks. That would have been Demeco and Owen Daniels by the way. Buffalo offered their 2nd and 3rd round picks. To match we would have had to give up Demeco and Winston. Either way we would have lost two starters, but the episode shows they were willing to pay a stiff price and they have no rule against 1st round RBs.

TexansSeminole
10-21-2007, 02:36 PM
Pencil is right--they are more than willing to take a RB in the 1st and the "Denver" rule needs to die a merciful death.

The Texans tried to trade to get the 26th pick to get DeAngelo Williams by offering 2nd and 4th round picks. That would have been Demeco and Owen Daniels by the way. Buffalo offered their 2nd and 3rd round picks. To match we would have had to give up Demeco and Winston. Either way we would have lost two starters, but the episode shows they were willing to pay a stiff price and they have no rule against 1st round RBs.

This is what we need to do this year. That or get a corner. These two positions along with our offensive line seem to be seriously lacking.