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Insideop
10-14-2007, 05:21 PM
While I agree with alot of the things everyone is saying about how we lost the game, in my mind the game was lost in the trenches, and most specifically, the O-line. I really believe the worst injury loss we have had this year was to McKinney and last year was Spencer. I think Salaam is doing the best he can at LT, but he is not one of the best and we need an upgrade there. I only hope Spencer can come back next year at 100%. As for Center, Flanagan is just not a good run blocker and I really believe it is one of the keys as to why we cannot score TD's in the Red Zone. We need a Center and LT badly. Hope we can find them in FA or the Draft next year. JMHO!

awtysst
10-14-2007, 05:25 PM
While I agree with alot of the things everyone is saying about how we lost the game, in my mind the game was lost in the trenches, and most specifically, the O-line. I really believe the worst injury loss we have had this year was to McKinney and last year was Spencer. I think Salaam is doing the best he can at LT, but he is not one of the best and we need an upgrade there. I only hope Spencer can come back next year at 100%. As for Center, Flanagan is just not a good run blocker and I really believe it is one of the keys as to why we cannot score TD's in the Red Zone. We need a Center and LT badly. Hope we can find them in FA or the Draft next year. JMHO!

Put Weary at Center and start Studdard.

RamRod
10-14-2007, 05:27 PM
While I agree with alot of the things everyone is saying about how we lost the game, in my mind the game was lost in the trenches, and most specifically, the O-line. I really believe the worst injury loss we have had this year was to McKinney and last year was Spencer. I think Salaam is doing the best he can at LT, but he is not one of the best and we need an upgrade there. I only hope Spencer can come back next year at 100%. As for Center, Flanagan is just not a good run blocker and I really believe it is one of the keys as to why we cannot score TD's in the Red Zone. We need a Center and LT badly. Hope we can find them in FA or the Draft next year. JMHO!

i agree.isnt this the week we find out about spencer?

Spled
10-14-2007, 06:21 PM
We were out rushed 244 to 61. Our #1 pick next year should go for the o-line.

Pantherstang84
10-14-2007, 06:25 PM
Put Weary at Center and start Studdard.

Let's do it.

Brandon420tx
10-14-2007, 06:26 PM
Testing it for 1 week couldn't hurt could it?

alphajoker
10-14-2007, 06:59 PM
Pitts didn't impress me at all. He was having a real hard time trying to run block today and for the most part, he was owned. They got by him on Schaub's QB draw, and he allowed a sack. Overall, I think the OL sucked balls. They were slow off the line, and didn't seem to have the intensity to match Jax DL.

Runner
10-14-2007, 07:07 PM
While I agree with alot of the things everyone is saying about how we lost the game, in my mind the game was lost in the trenches, and most specifically, the O-line. I really believe the worst injury loss we have had this year was to McKinney and last year was Spencer. I think Salaam is doing the best he can at LT, but he is not one of the best and we need an upgrade there. I only hope Spencer can come back next year at 100%. As for Center, Flanagan is just not a good run blocker and I really believe it is one of the keys as to why we cannot score TD's in the Red Zone. We need a Center and LT badly. Hope we can find them in FA or the Draft next year. JMHO!

Last year, the final roster was built to include some intangibles. Flanagan was kept for "leadership" and the fact that Salaam could play both left and right tackle was the given reason for keeping him on the roster. In regards to Flanagan, I stated at the time that the Texans were too thin in depth to keep players on for their locker room presence; they needed more players on the field.

As far Salaam, as soon as Spencer went down I stated the Texans needed a left tackle - not a guy who was flexible enough to play spot duty on either side, which was why he was on the roster. This spot "swing" player will be the LT for almost two years if he stays healthy this year.

I still stand by those opinions, even with Matt Schaub at QB. It is hard enough playing QB in the NFL without having to make up for line deficiencies as frequently as he does.

It seems we on the board always talk about "building from the trenches" when things go south during a season, but forget that and trust in "Kubes" and the Denver system when discussing the o-line in the offseason. Houston isn't Denver, and the plan for the o-line isn't working.

brickman
10-14-2007, 07:09 PM
Last year, the final roster was built to include some intangibles. Flanagan was kept for "leadership" and the fact that Salaam could play both left and right tackle was the given reason for keeping him on the roster. In regards to Flanagan, I stated at the time that the Texans were too thin in depth to keep players on for their locker room presence; they needed more players on the field.

As far Salaam, as soon as Spencer went down I stated the Texans needed a left tackle - not a guy who was flexible enough to play spot duty on either side, which was why he was on the roster. This spot "swing" player will be the LT for almost two years if he stays healthy this year.

I still stand by those opinions, even with Matt Schaub at QB. It is hard enough playing QB in the NFL without having to make up for line deficiencies as frequently as he does.

It seems we on the board always talk about "building from the trenches" when things go south during a season, but forget that and trust in "Kubes" and the Denver system when discussing the o-line in the offseason. Houston isn't Denver, and the plan for the o-line isn't working.

Bravo, Bravo!!!!! Well said!

alphajoker
10-14-2007, 07:26 PM
Last year, the final roster was built to include some intangibles. Flanagan was kept for "leadership" and the fact that Salaam could play both left and right tackle was the given reason for keeping him on the roster. In regards to Flanagan, I stated at the time that the Texans were too thin in depth to keep players on for their locker room presence; they needed more players on the field.

As far Salaam, as soon as Spencer went down I stated the Texans needed a left tackle - not a guy who was flexible enough to play spot duty on either side, which was why he was on the roster. This spot "swing" player will be the LT for almost two years if he stays healthy this year.

I still stand by those opinions, even with Matt Schaub at QB. It is hard enough playing QB in the NFL without having to make up for line deficiencies as frequently as he does.

It seems we on the board always talk about "building from the trenches" when things go south during a season, but forget that and trust in "Kubes" and the Denver system when discussing the o-line in the offseason. Houston isn't Denver, and the plan for the o-line isn't working.

The Denver system or the Green Bay system aren't working right now. Also, not having McKinney in there hurts too.

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2007, 07:32 PM
Last year, the final roster was built to include some intangibles. Flanagan was kept for "leadership" and the fact that Salaam could play both left and right tackle was the given reason for keeping him on the roster. In regards to Flanagan, I stated at the time that the Texans were too thin in depth to keep players on for their locker room presence; they needed more players on the field.

As far Salaam, as soon as Spencer went down I stated the Texans needed a left tackle - not a guy who was flexible enough to play spot duty on either side, which was why he was on the roster. This spot "swing" player will be the LT for almost two years if he stays healthy this year.

I still stand by those opinions, even with Matt Schaub at QB. It is hard enough playing QB in the NFL without having to make up for line deficiencies as frequently as he does.

It seems we on the board always talk about "building from the trenches" when things go south during a season, but forget that and trust in "Kubes" and the Denver system when discussing the o-line in the offseason. Houston isn't Denver, and the plan for the o-line isn't working.

It's bad when you have to start going for the endzone outside the twenty .

I get a bad feeling when it's 1st and goal from the 6yd line because it's soon to be 2nd and goal from the 5yd line .

Runner
10-14-2007, 07:33 PM
The Denver system or the Green Bay system aren't working right now.

I was speaking of the Denver system in terms of taking o-lineman in the later rounds.

alphajoker
10-14-2007, 07:58 PM
I was speaking of the Denver system in terms of taking o-lineman in the later rounds.

I'm just saying we aren't run blocking well...period.

FILO_girl
10-14-2007, 08:45 PM
What I have noticed...

NO ONE TACKLES! I see our defense run the opposition off the field, or grab at the uni but no one (Except Dunta, you are my TEXANS hero!) who will go knock 'em on their azzez.

Is it not a basic fundamental to TACKLE your rival and not invite them to tango?
Wrap'em up....TACKLE.

Twitch-Houston
10-14-2007, 08:50 PM
What I have noticed...

(Except Dunta, you are my TEXANS hero!) who will go knock 'em on their azzez.


I gotta give props to Hutchins. His been a pretty good safety valve for the most part making tackles when he has needed to.

Ole Miss Texan
10-14-2007, 10:18 PM
Salaam is doing his best and deserves a spot on our team. That spot is just back up Tackle.

Move Weary to Center
Move Spencer to Guard (if he comes back healthy)
Draft LT in the 1st round of '08

Get a dominant OL at the same time we're getting a dominant DL. Then go for skill positions that will be able to succeed the first game they play in. No need wasting a bruising season or two on a top tier RB if he's just going to get pummeled at the line of scrimmage.

beerlover
10-14-2007, 10:45 PM
the Texans offensive line played their butts off today. the Jags have one of the most imposing fronts in the NFL & if you can't run the ball because you fall down on contact, they're going to blow up the QB. nothing new, we've seen it all before, the offense seemed to be clicking fine until they got to conservative in the red zone.

I also noticed their offensive line in the second half destroy our vaunted D-Line, of course they where exhausted from being on the field too long but I thought they where much bigger than the Texans from the opening. they pounded Okoye with double teams & Mario was contained by the tackle. Maddox had a nice sack, but then lost his quick first step after being called offsides & watched Weaver tread water all afternoon. thats what offensive lines are supposed to do, it starts in the Center & once you have the nose of the pocket established works it's way around to the ends like a horse shoe.

Spencer should be able to return next year but McKinney may be done & Flanagan too so Center should be the main focus, I don't know much about Chris White other than he was one of Shermans Packers but maybe he can start taking some snaps to see what he can do?

threetoedpete
10-15-2007, 02:32 AM
Nothing is imposiblle, but I think after the preformance today, you can prety much rule out a six game win streak or a couple of back to back three game winning streaks. There isn't a whole lot they can do at this point. They can't fire the players. What we have is what we have.
I've had a running arguement with a few people in here that the o-line, whether or not DC was involved, was a sore spot. Ok you are going to take these guys in the latter rounds and groom them up...fine. But at this point...you gotta make a move some where. Someone has to preform. It's not working. Not in a denver scheme, not in the green bay scheme, it just isn't working. It's not the running backs. It's not the quarterback. It's not the amount of skill palyers or their ablity. This game put a lazar beam on the problem. And after two games you gotta figure that the rust isn't coming off of Flanagan. Salaam is great if he isn't facing a great DE. Well he has only given up "x" amount of sacks this year pete...we're still on pace to have the lowest sack total ever....yeah well we just handed a blue print to the rest of the NFL and they will use it. If it was me and they tank the Tennese game , unload the benches see who can play and who can not play.

I don't know what the problem is with MS. There is a clear and decisive difference in how he throws the ball in the frist half compared to the second half. He does not throw well on the run. He losses acuracy when he is moving with the ball. There is NO excuse, bruised thigh whatever for a pro QB missing two wide open players in the end zone. None. Whatever the problem is they need to get a handle on it and fix it. If he is so inured he can not make those plays he should of been on the bench. He isn't a draw QB. He is a pocket passer.

If the defense gets gassed on two long drves they're are not in shape and that is on the players. They are proffesionals and it is their responsiblity to be in good enough shape to endure long drives. When I see guys with hands on their hips and DBs gulping air...there's been too much beer and Pizza and not enough wind sprints. I mean skill and tallent are one thing. Being out of shape is quite another. The tackling by all parties is simply terrible. And it has been since the carolina game. LB's going after Br're wrabbit in the wrong hole is just inexcusable. Even if they were all rookies. That there thingy is a sign of guessing and not reading. And if they cannot read plays at this level, I don't care what kind of honors they've had in the past, they need to get benched. They got embarrased today.The whole defense was putrid. Petey Faggins wasn't perfect but he just may have had his best day as a pro.

You can cry about this officiating crew and their very liberal interpretation of the rules. But the home team is going to get home calls. And every now and then, you're going to get a bad set of officials. That is why you prepare for a worst case scenario. Because those things shouldn't matter. Those things you learn to over come what ever they are and find a way to over come them. Losers cry about officiating.

They faced a prepared team and that team put a lazar beam where this oginanzation is at. Who we've over paid for and who still has a shot at redemtion. They are playing for jobs for next year now. They had oportunities to put the jags away early and they made mistake after mistake. We know they are not good enough to face a good motivated team with mutlipul mistakes, out of shape, with poor tackling, and expect to win. The jags practically gave the game away the first half. And guys we expected to carry the water, paid to carry the water, couldn't get it done. We should all know where they are now. Now where it is heading we're fixing to find out. The good news is that Salaam is still upright. It could be worse.

beerlover
10-15-2007, 09:42 AM
I've had a running arguement with a few people in here that the o-line, whether or not DC was involved, was a sore spot. Ok you are going to take these guys in the latter rounds and groom them up...fine. But at this point...you gotta make a move some where. Someone has to preform. It's not working. Not in a denver scheme, not in the green bay scheme, it just isn't working.

lets break this down a little bit. I have no idea whats going on with Pitts he has been our best linemen since inception but he is missing blocking assignments & making false starts. if Salaam is playing hurt (which I suspect) why not move Pitts to LT then put Studdard in his place & see what happens? its too bad the bye week is so late because I think this might work out with some reps & become a long term solution.

It's not the running backs.

I have to disagree. where's the second effort? one touch and they go down, I've never seen anything like it. we had hope coming into this season with Chris Taylor becoming the feature back (learn to secure the football) cause you knew he had a high motor & not going down easy. Regardless of the extent of Greens injury he has been a real dissapointment, & Samkon actually looks better just lacks explosion also going down to easy.

It's not the quarterback. It's not the amount of skill palyers or their ablity.

Schaub is not the problem, although he still throws a couple real stinkers every game but without your #1 option Andre Johnson & rookie sensation Jacoby Jones those are your skill players they really miss.


I don't know what the problem is with MS. There is a clear and decisive difference in how he throws the ball in the frist half compared to the second half. He does not throw well on the run. He losses acuracy when he is moving with the ball. There is NO excuse, bruised thigh whatever for a pro QB missing two wide open players in the end zone. None. Whatever the problem is they need to get a handle on it and fix it. If he is so inured he can not make those plays he should of been on the bench. He isn't a draw QB. He is a pocket passer.

you where just quoted as saying its not the quarterback, so why are you flaming on him? I thought he looked really good throwing on the run to his right, now throwing to the left seemed to be a different story, but if he did'nt move out of the pocket he would have been sacked twice as much isnt that the whole point of the offensive line breaking down & not sealing the pocket?

If the defense gets gassed on two long drves they're are not in shape and that is on the players. They are proffesionals and it is their responsiblity to be in good enough shape to endure long drives. When I see guys with hands on their hips and DBs gulping air...there's been too much beer and Pizza and not enough wind sprints. I mean skill and tallent are one thing. Being out of shape is quite another. The tackling by all parties is simply terrible. And it has been since the carolina game.

I'm not ready to assign all the blame on the players its probably equally divided. other teams scouting of our tendancies seems to be right on & they continue to catch us in a blitz then just dump off the ball underneath in space & you Maruice Drew Jones room in space your in trouble. they are trying so hard to pressure the QB they get out of position on the run & if your out of position its next to impossible to recover & make textbook tackling.

You can cry about this officiating crew and their very liberal interpretation of the rules. But the home team is going to get home calls. And every now and then, you're going to get a bad set of officials. That is why you prepare for a worst case scenario. Because those things shouldn't matter. Those things you learn to over come what ever they are and find a way to over come them. Losers cry about officiating.

The officating was hard to take because they were blowing it on the field but getting it right on instant replay that seemed to be a one-way Jaguar road, that kind of stuff kills momentum & breaks the back of your defense/offense.

They faced a prepared team and that team put a lazar beam where this oginanzation is at.

Everyone knew the Jags where hot coming into the game and if not for lack of red zone ineptness the Texans where right in the game (take out those two late game defensive breakdowns). What it shows is that the Texans don't have the depth to overcome losing offensive firepower, that the offensive line as a unit is less than average, that the defense is young & out of position because they lack an effective pass rush & yes execution miscues. same ole problems the Texans have been dealing with since expansion, hell it wouldnt surprise me if the Texans draft another DE who is a speed rushing specialist. If Mario can't develop as a serious pass rushing threat move him to strongside run support with Weaver serving out his contract in a rotational role :logo:

Texans Horror
10-15-2007, 02:02 PM
The onus is on the o-line to protect Schaub better. He took some bad hits in the last few games, and now he's coughed up a ball because he was left wide open. I remember a few shots of him with his hand over his head and looking really POed. I hope he chewed out the line. I hope Kubiak did, too. They were pitiful, and swing tackles and PUP-listers won't fix the problem.

Runner
10-15-2007, 05:05 PM
I have no idea whats going on with Pitts he has been our best linemen since inception but he is missing blocking assignments & making false starts.

a) Maybe he wasn't always our best lineman
b) Maybe he's not as good anymore
c) Maybe the stellar players on either side of him are bringing him down
d) Maybe being the Texans best lineman is "equivalent to being the finest ballerina in Galveston"*.


* Charles Emerson Winchester III, M*A*S*H 4077.

Insideop
10-15-2007, 05:12 PM
Spencer should be able to return next year but McKinney may be done & Flanagan too so Center should be the main focus, I don't know much about Chris White other than he was one of Shermans Packers but maybe he can start taking some snaps to see what he can do?

Beerlover, I agree with you 100% on this. I definately think Center should be a top priority in the off season. I don't know who will be available in FA, but if they don't get one there, they have to draft one for sure. For now though, I think you're right in that they need to find out what Chris White can do. I don't think he could be any worse than Flanagan at run blocking. JMHO!

Runner
10-16-2007, 05:46 PM
I have no idea whats going on with Pitts he has been our best linemen since inception but he is missing blocking assignments & making false starts.

a) Maybe he wasn't always our best lineman
b) Maybe he's not as good anymore
c) Maybe the stellar players on either side of him are bringing him down
d) Maybe being the Texans best lineman is "equivalent to being the finest ballerina in Galveston"*.


* Charles Emerson Winchester III, M*A*S*H 4077.

e) This probably has nothing to do with it, but make no mistake about it - Pitts would like to be a left tackle.