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View Full Version : Texan fans are idiots too!


dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 12:17 PM
I was at the game yesterday and was very disappointed with the fans- as usual. First of all, they are yelling and cheering everytime the team goes for it on 4th down.

Mostly, though, I can't stand the booing. I booed and heckled in 2005 because it was a ridiculous and embarrassing display. However, that's not what is happening this season. The first booing event was on the shovel pass we tried on 3rd and 15. The second, and loudest booing, was with less than 2 minutes left in the game after we've come back twice to tie and just had a big defensive stop. On 1st down, we ran the ball from our own 3. Any fans that don't understand why the team would run there, I can't understand why they'd sit in the stands, spend their money, and watch this game-which is clearly foreign to them. I don't spend $65 per seat to go watch a soccer match, that's for sure!

Marcus
10-08-2007, 12:29 PM
It's just the playcalling police. Too lazy to try to understand the complexity of the game. It's the same people who want them to "go long" every single down.

Double Barrel
10-08-2007, 12:31 PM
I told someone to please be quiet on one of our fourth downs, got glared at, then I pointed to the video screen that had "QUIET - OFFENSE AT WORK" on it. :whistle:

I am amazed at how much football knowledge and understanding was lost during the NFL's absence from Houston. I always took it for granted as an Oilers fan.

FirstTexansFan
10-08-2007, 12:36 PM
It could have been worse, you could have had the beer spilling, every play they leapt to their feet to kick you in the back of the head, dropping the F-bomb with every breath, totally incoherant buffoons I had sitting behind me :) All these plus the gripes you guys are making....luckily the friends that dropped the tickets on me had additional seating I could relocate too, otherwise I'd be in jail this morning ;)

Yankee_In_TX
10-08-2007, 12:37 PM
I told someone to please be quiet on one of our fourth downs, got glared at, then I pointed to the video screen that had "QUIET - OFFENSE AT WORK" on it. :whistle:

I am amazed at how much football knowledge and understanding was lost during the NFL's absence from Houston. I always took it for granted as an Oilers fan.

Sadly, they don't understand why they should be quiet the ENTIRE down, not just 5 second before the ball snaps.

thegr8fan
10-08-2007, 12:44 PM
actually I didn't agree with the 4th-1 call either. Unlike yourself though, even in 2005, I have never 'boo-ed' inside the stadium at the Texans. Guess I am an ***** for never booing, huh.

If we had showed to have even an mediocre running game at any time during the game, I would have completely agreed with THAT call. Showing that we couldn't get 2 yds in 3 tries from the 2 yd line for a TD, early in the game, was a direct reflection of our LACK of a running game. Hence that call, with intent of getting some distance out of the endzone, was a wasted call to me. And obviously gaining ONE WHOLE YD during the play, showed it was a wasted call. The very next play, from our 4 yd line, only netted 19 yds.

We ran very poorly yesterday and passed very well. Call the plays that are working for you. Not the ones that football logic says is a high percentage call. IMIO (in my idiotic opinion)

note to self: on this board you can in fact use the word ID-IO-T in the heading of the message. You can not however use it in the text of the message. hmmm

Brando
10-08-2007, 12:46 PM
This isn't a big deal but does anyone have a problem when the Texans get a first down and the Reliant Stadium Anouncer hollers that's good for a Houston Texans ..... then the crowd hollers First Down? Seems like Schaub has a hard time getting the call in from Kubes when that happens.

The only time I boo is at a bad officiating call or the opposing team.

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 12:49 PM
WTF Texan fans?!!? Section 120, there was a Texan on Texan brawl.... :gun:

Double Barrel
10-08-2007, 12:49 PM
This isn't a big deal but does anyone have a problem when the Texans get a first down and the Reliant Stadium Anouncer hollers that's good for a Houston Texans ..... then the crowd hollers First Down? Seems like Schaub has a hard time getting the call in from Kubes when that happens.

That was always fun during the 2-14 season...ok, not so much really.

I thought it was funny during our hurry up offense and we got a first down. The announcer said it really fast, almost like he was one of those auction guys.

GlassHalfFull
10-08-2007, 12:53 PM
It could have been worse, you could have had the beer spilling, every play they leapt to their feet to kick you in the back of the head, dropping the F-bomb with every breath, totally incoherant buffoons I had sitting behind me :) All these plus the gripes you guys are making....luckily the friends that dropped the tickets on me had additional seating I could relocate too, otherwise I'd be in jail this morning ;)

Try this middle school age girl who has season tickets behind us for each game. She has this scream that has dogs barking for miles. She absolutely loves Kris Brown, so she had plenty of times to cut loose Sunday. I've never heard anyone hit the notes she hits. My ears are ringing. Then, she talks incessintly when not screaming. Ignorant comments in the loud, shrill voice. I looked back once and her father was not there and she still was talking.

I tried to get the car keys from my husband at one point, because I was afraid he was going to get arrested and I wanted to be able to get home. She jumped down to the empty seat beside him and was jumping up and down screaming in his ear.

My husband got invited to the Titan's game by another company, so we are looking for an enforcer to come with us as our guest to the game. Maybe a teammate from my son's HS football team.

We are loud in the right places and I don't mind noise, but I will be looking to trade my tickets to another location next year.

ledzeppelin229
10-08-2007, 12:53 PM
I sat down in my parents seats this time and across the aisle theres this giant troll of a lady that screeches nonstop for the entire game. KUBIAAAAAC (but with smokers lung sound.)

No wonder my dad was so quick to volunteer to sit in the end zone...

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 12:54 PM
I thought it was funny during our hurry up offense and we got a first down. The announcer said it really fast, almost like he was one of those auction guys.

I laughed at that too.....

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 12:58 PM
WTF Texan fans?!!? Section 120, there was a Texan on Texan brawl.... :gun:

The guys deserved it..lol..:bat:


kidding..was at home with child celebrating our anniversary by watching football

Porky
10-08-2007, 01:01 PM
actually I didn't agree with the 4th-1 call either. Unlike yourself though, even in 2005, I have never 'boo-ed' inside the stadium at the Texans. Guess I am an ***** for never booing, huh.

If we had showed to have even an mediocre running game at any time during the game, I would have completely agreed with THAT call. Showing that we couldn't get 2 yds in 3 tries from the 2 yd line for a TD, early in the game, was a direct reflection of our LACK of a running game. Hence that call, with intent of getting some distance out of the endzone, was a wasted call to me. And obviously gaining ONE WHOLE YD during the play, showed it was a wasted call. The very next play, from our 4 yd line, only netted 19 yds.

We ran very poorly yesterday and passed very well. Call the plays that are working for you. Not the ones that football logic says is a high percentage call. IMIO (in my idiotic opinion)

note to self: on this board you can in fact use the word ID-IO-T in the heading of the message. You can not however use it in the text of the message. hmmm


I don't totally disagree with your take, but remember that the Fins still had Timeouts. If we throw on 1st down, and it's incomplete, the Dolphins may have called a TO, and tried to get the ball back. OTOH, when they ran and Miami did not call for the TO, then I would have liked a little more urgency to get the play off unless they truly did intend to run the clock down and go for the OT period. All in all, I was glad Kubes decided to grow a pair and go for it, but you are right in that clock management still seems to be a bugaboo.

imatexan
10-08-2007, 01:25 PM
Stop complaining about the Fans!!! Every other NFL team has the same problems. I have heard this soo many times, we are not idiots its just how it goes. It really is not that bad, get over it!

IlliniJen
10-08-2007, 01:30 PM
Perhaps we need to do a "buddy" program. Pair up one off-the-street Texans fan with one Colts fan.

You guys sound like a bunch of hardcore music fans pooping on the scourge that is commercial rock. I LOVE IT!

Hopefully a couple years of success will make for a more stable and intelligent fan base, turning the bandwagoners into "true" fans...as true as you can get in a fair-weather sports town like Houston. We need to bring the Football Fan back to Houston.

dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 01:31 PM
Stop complaining about the Fans!!! Every other NFL team has the same problems. I have heard this soo many times, we are not idiots its just how it goes. It really is not that bad, get over it!

Then all those fans are idiots too

Vinny
10-08-2007, 01:32 PM
note to self: on this board you can in fact use the word ID-IO-T in the heading of the message. You can not however use it in the text of the message. hmmm

The purpose of the deleted word in the posts is to cut down on personal attacks...once I deleted that word people generally cut way back on mindlessly calling each other an i d i o t. This word isn't worth banning otherwise. Also, I didn't ban the word idiots....you can type it with a S at the end. People don't generally run around calling a person an idiots.

IlliniJen
10-08-2007, 01:35 PM
Also folks...consider this sad thought:

Maybe some of these new fans are ex-Cowboy fans. And we all know how these folks are barely able to leave the house without a helmet, let alone know how to act during a football game. Please be kind...take them under your wing and train them properly.

:heart: :texflag: :heart:

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 01:40 PM
The guys deserved it..lol..:bat:


kidding..was at home with child celebrating our anniversary by watching football

Probably, but not as much as the full three rows of Finz fans sitting at the top of my section.. Of course, I got penalized 15 yards for 'taunting'.



BY the way, congrats on your anniversary!!

dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 01:41 PM
actually I didn't agree with the 4th-1 call either. Unlike yourself though, even in 2005, I have never 'boo-ed' inside the stadium at the Texans. Guess I am an ***** for never booing, huh.

If we had showed to have even an mediocre running game at any time during the game, I would have completely agreed with THAT call. Showing that we couldn't get 2 yds in 3 tries from the 2 yd line for a TD, early in the game, was a direct reflection of our LACK of a running game. Hence that call, with intent of getting some distance out of the endzone, was a wasted call to me. And obviously gaining ONE WHOLE YD during the play, showed it was a wasted call. The very next play, from our 4 yd line, only netted 19 yds.

We ran very poorly yesterday and passed very well. Call the plays that are working for you. Not the ones that football logic says is a high percentage call. IMIO (in my idiotic opinion)

note to self: on this board you can in fact use the word ID-IO-T in the heading of the message. You can not however use it in the text of the message. hmmm

We also weren't passing blocking well. Schaub was only completing about 60% of his passes. Also, the clock stops on an incomplete pass. We were on our own three. The game was tied. There was less than 2 minutes to go. Miami had three timeouts. Our punter averages a net of about 43 yards.

Taking all that into account, we ran the ball not because Kubiak thought that was the most efficient way to get into field goal range, but because given all the factors, it was the best way to win the game. He wanted to see if Miami was going to use their timeouts and didn't want to leave too much time on the clock and allow a very short Miami drive for a winning field goal. Even if we just run out the clock, we have a better than average chance to win the game in overtime. The odds of winning the game from our own 3 yard line, weren't good and it's reasonable that the head coach wouldn't want to put the opposing team in a favorable position. Have you ever heard of the football expression "field position"?

Chance_C
10-08-2007, 01:44 PM
I don't totally disagree with your take, but remember that the Fins still had Timeouts. If we throw on 1st down, and it's incomplete, the Dolphins may have called a TO, and tried to get the ball back. OTOH, when they ran and Miami did not call for the TO, then I would have liked a little more urgency to get the play off unless they truly did intend to run the clock down and go for the OT period. All in all, I was glad Kubes decided to grow a pair and go for it, but you are right in that clock management still seems to be a bugaboo.

Agreed. I thought the run was an obvious call even in light of the nonexistent
running game. Taylor was giving Schaub problems, and a safety would not have been good. Although the one yard plunge didn't really help. My biggest problem was that they drained probably 20 seconds off of the clock, then came the 19 yard completion, followed by a sense of urgency. One play to late IMO.

Brando
10-08-2007, 01:45 PM
We also weren't passing blocking well. Schaub was only completing about 60% of his passes. Also, the clock stops on an incomplete pass. We were on our own three. The game was tied. There was less than 2 minutes to go. Miami had three timeouts. Our punter averages a net of about 43 yards.

Taking all that into account, we ran the ball not because Kubiak thought that was the most efficient way to get into field goal range, but because given all the factors, it was the best way to win the game. He wanted to see if Miami was going to use their timeouts and didn't want to leave too much time on the clock and allow a very short Miami drive for a winning field goal.

QFT! Good Post

Twitch-Houston
10-08-2007, 02:04 PM
One play to late IMO.
__________________


The run was to test when Miami was going to call a timeout. Kubiak didn't want to give Miami the ball in good field position with a lot of time on the clock. The big pass to OD made a difference in the fact that they could try and get in field goal range.

Double Barrel
10-08-2007, 02:24 PM
I sense that some of the 'booing' was out of frustration. It's tough to root for a losing team year after year. Winning teams take chances, which is exactly what we did to win the game yesterday.

Vinny
10-08-2007, 02:25 PM
I sense that some of the 'booing' was out of frustration. It's tough to root for a losing team year after year. Winning teams take chances, which is exactly what we did to win the game yesterday.
I only heard scattered booing here and there....wasn't that noticeable to me at all.

Double Barrel
10-08-2007, 02:27 PM
I only heard scattered booing here and there....wasn't that noticeable to me at all.

yeah, I didn't hear that much either.

dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 02:36 PM
yeah, I didn't hear that much either.

You guys are surrounded with Bullpen members. Trust me, the huckabees in the 600's were doing a lot of booing.

Double Barrel
10-08-2007, 02:37 PM
You guys are surrounded with Bullpen members. Trust me, the huckabees in the 600's were doing a lot of booing.

nah, I'm up in 500's, south (dark side) end zone. I hear boos, just not a stadium full. I think some folks were having Capers' "play not to lose" flashbacks. JMO.

Yankee_In_TX
10-08-2007, 02:39 PM
WTF Texan fans?!!? Section 120, there was a Texan on Texan brawl.... :gun:

Was that the NE corner? I noticed everyone in the two/three sections by the corner was focused towards the aisle at one point.

Vinny
10-08-2007, 02:46 PM
I only heard scattered booing here and there....wasn't that noticeable to me at all.You guys are surrounded with Bullpen members. Trust me, the huckabees in the 600's were doing a lot of booing.

nope, I was on the 50 yard line

Second Honeymoon
10-08-2007, 02:52 PM
I told someone to please be quiet on one of our fourth downs, got glared at, then I pointed to the video screen that had "QUIET - OFFENSE AT WORK" on it. :whistle:

I am amazed at how much football knowledge and understanding was lost during the NFL's absence from Houston. I always took it for granted as an Oilers fan.

/agreed

we used to be some of the more intelligent football fans back in the day. we saw everything humanly possible happen to the Oilers so we knew what to look out for and had seen just about every scenario play itself out (mostly to the Oilers detriment)

i am so happy our season is going better and the franchise seems to be going in the right direction. now that we are a real team and we can compete, it feels kinda like the old school Oilers-era in that now the losses hurt SOOO much more. Not 'Oilers-era hurt' just yet, but its getting there. I just believe in the team now so the losses are harder to accept. Losing to Peyton is just part and parcel of being in his division, but losing to the Falcons was embarassing. Luckily we did just enough to beat the Fins so we can now get down to our Divisional business. Next stop Jacksonville!!!

YellerLotYeller
10-08-2007, 02:55 PM
What about the dumbasses that come to the sections with free giveaways to toss out while we are on offense. I told the guy to wait until we score or we're on defense, and he looked at me like...huh? People start screaming like he's throwing out thousand dollar bills.


Also, they need to keep the "Quiet Sign" going all game, not just in the first quarter.

Second Honeymoon
10-08-2007, 03:04 PM
I only heard scattered booing here and there....wasn't that noticeable to me at all.

as an earlier poster noted (Marcus?) it was the playcalling police. its standard in any NFL arena nowadays. Geez, now it happens in college football constantly in every conference. (see Greg Davis). it happens everywhere.

I side with the fans because it looked like Kubiak was going to play for overtime initially with that 1st play and playing for OT would have been a mistake. luckily, he was possibly lulling the Dolphins into sleep, draining the timeouts, and trying to get his QB some room to throw with the threat of the run. A safety would have been GAME OVER at that point.

it's now obvious that he actually did a GREAT job with clock management which is a big step considering his huge clock management gaffes the previous two games.

OT - fwiw - Cameron looked completely lost out there Sunday at times. I think its overwhelming him and he looks like a deer in headlights. Huizenga isnt exactly patient and this could be 'one and done' if they don't turn things around fast. Cameron has done a good job putting Brown into position to make plays ala LT but there is more to being a Head Coach than being an OC. If Green is out for any significant amount of time, then that could help Cameron keep his job another year but it would be on a short leash. Wayne would love to hire a Cowher as he loves to make a big splash.

Vinny
10-08-2007, 03:07 PM
I side with the fans because it looked like Kubiak was going to play for overtime initially with that 1st play and playing for OT would have been a mistake. luckily, he was possibly lulling the Dolphins into sleep, draining the timeouts, and trying to get his QB some room to throw with the threat of the run. A safety would have been GAME OVER at that point.

it's now obvious that he actually did a GREAT job with clock management which is a big step considering his huge clock management gaffes the previous two games.

OT - fwiw - Cameron looked completely lost out there Sunday at times. I think its overwhelming him and he looks like a deer in headlights. Huizenga isnt exactly patient and this could be 'one and done' if they don't turn things around fast. Cameron has done a good job putting Brown into position to make plays ala LT but there is more to being a Head Coach than being an OC. If Green is out for any significant amount of time, then that could help Cameron keep his job another year but it would be on a short leash. Wayne would love to hire a Cowher as he loves to make a big splash.

I sat with Herv and he can tell you that I called the run and we discussed why you should not pass on that first play...but some fans were booing anyway. I also discussed Cameron's idiotic play calling. Brown was going off for about 7 ypc in the first half and they come out throwing the ball after halftime. I told him if I was a Dolphin fan I'd be an unhappy fan.

Second Honeymoon
10-08-2007, 03:15 PM
I sat with Herv and he can tell you that I called the run and we discussed why you should not pass on that first play...but some fans were booing anyway. I also discussed Cameron's idiotic play calling. Brown was going off for about 7 ypc in the first half and they come out throwing the ball after halftime. I told him if I was a Dolphin fan I'd be an unhappy fan.

oh we had timeouts so i had no problem with them running it to get room but I think the fans were booing what they perceived was 'playing for overtime' rather than the running play itself. they had seen Kubes go conservative in similar situations and didn't want to allow the game to basically come down to a coin flip.

oh yeah, Brown looked great and was cutting back into the gaps from Weaver and Mario ala LT early in the game...totally exposing Mario and Okoye on a few plays...breaking tackles...doing it all....but then once Green was gone and Cleo was in, he just seemed completely lost and broken. Cameron is just overwhelmed and its only gonna get tougher with an 0-5 team that is probably 2 losses away from season long cruise control by the whole team.

I feel sorry for the guy because the Miami media is extremely hard on their football coaches when they lose...and their losing; in spades

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 03:21 PM
Was that the NE corner? I noticed everyone in the two/three sections by the corner was focused towards the aisle at one point.

YUP.. That was it. It was a couple rows in front of me but the opposite side of the section.

Ckw
10-08-2007, 03:30 PM
Stop complaining about the Fans!!! Every other NFL team has the same problems. I have heard this soo many times, we are not idiots its just how it goes. It really is not that bad, get over it!

Leave Texans fan alone!!!!!! :crying:

Battle Red Flash
10-08-2007, 04:32 PM
I was at the game yesterday and was very disappointed with the fans- as usual. First of all, they are yelling and cheering everytime the team goes for it on 4th down.

Mostly, though, I can't stand the booing. I booed and heckled in 2005 because it was a ridiculous and embarrassing display.
On 1st down, we ran the ball from our own 3. Any fans that don't understand why the team would run there, I can't understand why they'd sit in the stands, spend their money, and watch this game-which is clearly foreign to them.

You are right about anyone yelling when the Texans are on offense, and have broken the huddle. Texans fans should be quiet.

Now, on the other point, I did not boo, but came close, because I feared Kubes was about to run the ball 3 times and go to overtime. I felt the people that booed were tired of Kubes conservative play callng and bad clock management over the last 3 or so games. They feared he had chosen not to even try for a FG drive.
I've seen other teams throw in that situation, and it worked. I've seen teams throw a bomb from there and it's worked. So running there was not the only choice. You agree with Kubes, and that's fine, but it does not make others wrong.

Vinny
10-08-2007, 04:44 PM
You are right about anyone yelling when the Texans are on offense, and have broken the huddle. Texans fans should be quiet.

Now, on the other point, I did not boo, but came close, because I feared Kubes was about to run the ball 3 times and go to overtime. I felt the people that booed were tired of Kubes conservative play callng and bad clock management over the last 3 or so games. They feared he had chosen not to even try for a FG drive.
I've seen other teams throw in that situation, and it worked. I've seen teams throw a bomb from there and it's worked. So running there was not the only choice. You agree with Kubes, and that's fine, but it does not make others wrong.
take a sack there and the games over...he did the right thing.

shinerbock_girl
10-08-2007, 04:53 PM
I was thinking the same thing watching it on tv, thinking whats wrong with these ppl, but then i thought maybe there were alot of Phin fans there....

thegr8fan
10-08-2007, 05:00 PM
take a sack for a safety and the game is even more over.

And for those arguing the 'field position dictated a run', Normally I would completely agree with that thinking. But not in yesterdays game when we didn't have anything remotely resembling a running game all game long. And that much time on the clock and we only needed to get into FG range.

The fans were booing for the fact that apparently Kubiak was playing for OT, and they didn't like it. All that changed with the 19 yd pass. IMO

Kubiaks clock management is still suspect, IMO. He hasn't shown a real good grasp of how to manage a late game clock this season so far, including yesterday.

real
10-08-2007, 05:04 PM
We scored the game winning kick with 1 second left on the clock...

How much better clock management can we get ?

You do not come out passing in a situation like that...

You have to run the ball to get the clock rolling...

If you throw an incomplete pass the clock stops and you may have to punt it...

Kubiak just said in his interview that their intent the whole time was to go after the first down at the least...

You have to take baby steps...If you go out there guns-a-blazin you may go down in the same manner...

thegr8fan
10-08-2007, 05:13 PM
Kubiak just said in his interview that their intent the whole time was to go after the first down at the least... this quote is a prime example of why the fans were frustrated and 'boo-ing'.

If your intent is to get a first down then that is a grand total of 10 yds.

With the game on the line, and that much time on the clock, don't you think the INTENT should have been to get downfield into FG range?? Wouldn't that seem to be the logical and desired INTENT at that time by the team? Seems so to me.

The 19 yd pass changed everyone's perspective of the clock management.

but from Kubiaks own quote listed above it is quite obvious he just wanted to take it into OT. That is what the fans were 'boo-ing', IMO.

dskillz
10-08-2007, 05:53 PM
It could have been worse. Everyone could have not showed up.

I am not going to start bitching at fans' cheering or not cheering when I saw the stadium less than half full several times. I know that we have to complain about something, but screw complaining about people actually showing up to the game.

real
10-08-2007, 06:05 PM
With the game on the line, and that much time on the clock, don't you think the INTENT should have been to get downfield into FG range?? Wouldn't that seem to be the logical and desired INTENT at that time by the team? Seems so to me.

No...I think you are wrong...


I don't think you can go out there with that mindset...Especially given that we are lacking our top weapons....

You have to test the waters first and see what you can get...

You need to go after the first down first, because you don't want the other team to get an easy three and out because you're stupidly trying to drive 90 yards all at once...

Sacks, and incompletions and interceptions were not our friend at that point...


I think those who were booing were wrong...

He first needed to make sure that we didn't "give" the Dolphins the game before he could go for the win...

But I don't expect everyone to understand that...So goes life...

michaelm
10-08-2007, 10:28 PM
The purpose of the deleted word in the posts is to cut down on personal attacks...once I deleted that word people generally cut way back on mindlessly calling each other an i d i o t. This word isn't worth banning otherwise. Also, I didn't ban the word idiots....you can type it with a S at the end. People don't generally run around calling a person an idiots.


They probably will now...

StarStruck
10-09-2007, 12:22 AM
I can generally tune out would be distractions by most of the fans because I get totally absorbed in what's going on on the field. However, call me a poor sport or what ever, but nothing annoys me more than trying to concentrate on the game while that dog gone beach ball goes sailing by. Then those who want to play will boo those that don't.

dalemurphy
10-09-2007, 12:49 AM
It could have been worse. Everyone could have not showed up.

I am not going to start bitching at fans' cheering or not cheering when I saw the stadium less than half full several times. I know that we have to complain about something, but screw complaining about people actually showing up to the game.

Oh yeah, and the stadium was half-empty at kickoff.

Vinny
10-09-2007, 01:19 AM
Oh yeah, and the stadium was half-empty at kickoff.
I knew someone would say that so I took some pics...I'll post them when I upload them from my camera.

YellerLotYeller
10-09-2007, 01:38 AM
Yea the refs cost us the game....*shakes head*....whoa I had a flashback to last year, sorry.

Texanmike02
10-09-2007, 04:46 AM
actually I didn't agree with the 4th-1 call either. Unlike yourself though, even in 2005, I have never 'boo-ed' inside the stadium at the Texans. Guess I am an ***** for never booing, huh.

If we had showed to have even an mediocre running game at any time during the game, I would have completely agreed with THAT call. Showing that we couldn't get 2 yds in 3 tries from the 2 yd line for a TD, early in the game, was a direct reflection of our LACK of a running game. Hence that call, with intent of getting some distance out of the endzone, was a wasted call to me. And obviously gaining ONE WHOLE YD during the play, showed it was a wasted call. The very next play, from our 4 yd line, only netted 19 yds.

We ran very poorly yesterday and passed very well.



First of all what game were you watching? You said we were passing the ball well? Are you being serious? We had 5 or 6 nice passing plays. The rest were pretty bad. Schaub was high or late or behind with almost every throw. And we know that a TO in that area was the end of the game.

For the first time in a crucial situation, Kubes managed the clock exactly the way you should. You want to get the clock down to where you can run signifigant time off the clock on 3rd down, or force them to use their last time out in the event that you have to punt them the ball.

We weren't running the ball to get out of the endzone... we had to run the ball to start the clock. Here's how you handle that situation.

The opposing team is content to let you run out the clock in most situations, so they are not going to call a time out on first down. That is your chance to get the clock where you want it. If you pass on first down you are screwed if it is incomplete because the other team now has enough timeouts to force you to punt them the ball.

If however, you run the ball on first down... you stand a chance to run the clock out if you are unable to complete your pass on second down. Conversely you leave yourself enough time to make a few attempts to pass the ball should you be successful on second down. Keep in mind you are basically handing them the game if you don't do it this way because if you punt them the ball from your 3 yard line they are probably going to get the ball in field goal range. That's because you have to punt from a max protect formation because there isn't much room in the endzone.

If the pass play works on second down you leave yourself a chance to score. But if it doesn't you are trying to make sure either force them to burn their last time out (limiting them to pass plays once they get the ball) or not have to punt the ball at all by running on 3rd down. I thought it was perfect clock management. The first time we've seen such a since the Moon-Jefferies days if you ask me.

Mike

thegr8fan
10-09-2007, 09:07 AM
First of all what game were you watching? You said we were passing the ball well? Are you being serious? We had 5 or 6 nice passing plays. serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running. Twice as well. Schaub ended up being the 3rd highest passing QB for the week, behind Romo, and his comback, and Favre and his loss.

You can't use the 'we were going for the first down' argument to disagree with this either. We got 12 first downs by passing and only 6 by running. If you truly want to get a first down then pass the ball.

the last drive was made possible by 19, 14, 19, and 6 yd passes. Not runs.

Penalty's and sacks are what killed our drives. Not the bad passing game. Look at the play by play stuff and you will see that if we had a long sustained drive it was penalty free. The holding calls at the worst times killed our drives. Sometimes AFTER we had picked up the first down it was negated by a penalty.

dalemurphy
10-09-2007, 10:59 AM
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running. Twice as well. Schaub ended up being the 3rd highest passing QB for the week, behind Romo, and his comback, and Favre and his loss.

You can't use the 'we were going for the first down' argument to disagree with this either. We got 12 first downs by passing and only 6 by running. If you truly want to get a first down then pass the ball.

the last drive was made possible by 19, 14, 19, and 6 yd passes. Not runs.

Penalty's and sacks are what killed our drives. Not the bad passing game. Look at the play by play stuff and you will see that if we had a long sustained drive it was penalty free. The holding calls at the worst times killed our drives. Sometimes AFTER we had picked up the first down it was negated by a penalty.

The holding calls were part of the passing game. Jason Taylor was running over or around Salaam all day long. He and Pitts were tackling him from behind for the last three quarters.

Maddict5
10-09-2007, 11:15 AM
I sat with Herv and he can tell you that I called the run and we discussed why you should not pass on that first play...but some fans were booing anyway. I also discussed Cameron's idiotic play calling. Brown was going off for about 7 ypc in the first half and they come out throwing the ball after halftime. I told him if I was a Dolphin fan I'd be an unhappy fan.


it was esp bad around the 2 min warning- they were on the edge of fg range and they put the balll in lemon's hands when browns dominating? wth.. needless to say we rushed him and he threw it out of bounds wasting a down and stopping the clock- time which was vital for us afterwards (cheers cam:texflag: )

Texans_Chick
10-09-2007, 11:27 AM
take a sack for a safety and the game is even more over.

And for those arguing the 'field position dictated a run', Normally I would completely agree with that thinking. But not in yesterdays game when we didn't have anything remotely resembling a running game all game long. And that much time on the clock and we only needed to get into FG range.

The fans were booing for the fact that apparently Kubiak was playing for OT, and they didn't like it. All that changed with the 19 yd pass. IMO

Kubiaks clock management is still suspect, IMO. He hasn't shown a real good grasp of how to manage a late game clock this season so far, including yesterday.


Kubiak explained his thought processes on that on Monday.

Judgment call. You go pass pass pass and not make the first down, or get sacked in the endzone it is probably going to be a loss and not even giving you a chance for OT.

In some ways that run is for future games too. If teams know you are going to pass every play, it makes it harder to pass.

Seeing Ron Dayne trying to run the last couple of games really makes me feel vomity, but I know they have to try.

Battle Red Flash
10-09-2007, 11:38 AM
take a sack there and the games over...he did the right thing.

And that's how you coach conservative/scared.
Kubiak says "what if we get sacked?" Another coach says "what if we do a quick slant and get 10 yards?"

Also, I watched the game last night again, and that last drive for the winning FG was terrible. They run on the first play and burn up almost 30 seconds, and then barely make it to the 40 yard line for a 57 yard FG. And they left one timeout on the table.
It's unforced errors that tick me off. The drive before the half was just as bad. They had 3:30 on the clock, and barely drive down for a 54 yarder.

Kubes needs to watch old film of Stabler and Staubach to see how real two minute drives are run.
This has gone on now three games in a row.

Battle Red Flash
10-09-2007, 11:41 AM
You have to take baby steps...If you go out there guns-a-blazin you may go down in the same manner...

It's been five plus years. The players are talking about making the playoffs.
Time to demand more from the coaches and players.

Double Barrel
10-09-2007, 11:42 AM
We scored the game winning kick with 1 second left on the clock...

How much better clock management can we get ?

Word :howdy:

76Texan
10-09-2007, 11:47 AM
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running. Twice as well. Schaub ended up being the 3rd highest passing QB for the week, behind Romo, and his comback, and Favre and his loss.

You can't use the 'we were going for the first down' argument to disagree with this either. We got 12 first downs by passing and only 6 by running. If you truly want to get a first down then pass the ball.

the last drive was made possible by 19, 14, 19, and 6 yd passes. Not runs.

Penalty's and sacks are what killed our drives. Not the bad passing game. Look at the play by play stuff and you will see that if we had a long sustained drive it was penalty free. The holding calls at the worst times killed our drives. Sometimes AFTER we had picked up the first down it was negated by a penalty.
With all due respect, gr8, but I have to agree with Mike on the clock management issue. Kube did right by running to start that drive. We really don't want to give the ball back to the Dolphins, even with 10 secs left.

As far as passing vs running for the game, you are right that the passing game was not as terrible as the running game.
However,
(1) If you go by numbers alone, 5.2 ypa would be "good" enough to tie with the Saints for dead last for the season.
For a WCO, that is a sure fire way to lose a game.
(2) As TexanMike mentioned, Schaub was not very accurate in this game. He wasn't off by much on the majority of the throws, but "off" nonetheless.
And that is one of the issue I have with Schaub, especially across the middle. It is a concern because exposing your receivers there could lead to a fumble/Int, or worse, an injury.
JMHO.

Battle Red Flash
10-09-2007, 11:48 AM
Oh yeah, and the stadium was half-empty at kickoff.

There is no excuse for that. I agree.

On another note, I watched the game again last night, and I'm sick of being nice to those Texan's fans that keep yelling when the Texans have the ball. Especially near the end zone.
The Texan's post the sign "Quiet, Offense Working", and these mo-rons keep yelling.
Schaub flaps his arms, and they keep yelling.
We need to tell them to shut up, and when they object, we need to power through it because we are right.

I thought fans in Texas knew football??

dalemurphy
10-09-2007, 12:20 PM
It's been five plus years. The players are talking about making the playoffs.
Time to demand more from the coaches and players.

You do know that we won that game on Sunday, right?

BigBull17
10-09-2007, 12:27 PM
If this was already brought up, sorry but I think we baited Miami by making them think we were gonna kill the clock. Maybe to hold the dline and give us a few seconds to throw the pass.

Chance_C
10-09-2007, 12:45 PM
And that's how you coach conservative/scared.
Kubiak says "what if we get sacked?" Another coach says "what if we do a quick slant and get 10 yards?"

Ok, the answer to Kubiak's question would have been: We lose the game. The answer to "another coach's" question would be a first down. They ran the ball in that situation because of 2 things; to start the clock, and to avoid any mishaps that potentially would have cost us the game, that is a sack or the possibility of giving the Dolphins the ball back with a short field. I understand everyone wanting to go for it all right there, but come on people Kubiak put us in the best position to win the game which is what we did. The clock was the most important factor in the decisions made. The last thing you want to do is give Miami the ball back on a short field. If Kubiak would have called for a pass and it was incomplete therefore stopping the clock, we would have had to run the ball on the next play (or heaven forbid another incompletion and clock stoppage) and would have effectively been playing for overtime. With the choice of plays (even though it was only a 1 yard gain) it started the clock, and opened up our options. We were then playing for the win. Good call coach, the only call.

Vinny
10-09-2007, 12:49 PM
And that's how you coach conservative/scared.That's not coaching scared...it's coaching smart. Last time I checked, football is a strategy game. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction so you don't make decisions that get you beat if you can control your situation and control the tempo of the moment. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty happy with 3-2 without most of our skill guys.

Chance_C
10-09-2007, 12:54 PM
That's not coaching scared...it's coaching smart. Last time I checked, football is a strategy game. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction so you don't make decisions that get you beat if you can control your situation and control the tempo of the moment. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty happy with 3-2 without most of our skill guys

What I was trying to say. I agree with Texans Chick, you have a good way of putting things.

ledzeppelin229
10-09-2007, 12:54 PM
I'd say at 3-2 we're in good shape. We could have very easily lost to Carolina and probably should have beaten Atlanta. This will be a big game against Jax to see if we can get to 4-2, and also important for the division win.

infantrycak
10-09-2007, 01:05 PM
serious as a heart attack. We averaged 5.2 yds a pass and 2.6 yds per run. So I am being totally serious when I said we were passing well, compared to running.

As far as passing vs running for the game, you are right that the passing game was not as terrible as the running game.
However,
(1) If you go by numbers alone, 5.2 ypa would be "good" enough to tie with the Saints for dead last for the season.
For a WCO, that is a sure fire way to lose a game.

Not sure where 5.2 ypa comes from. Schaub was 20 of 34 for 296 yards--8.6 ypa, 14.8 ypc.

Matt Schaub is 5th in the league for ypa and 3rd highest completion %--without a running game or two of his top three WR's.

thegr8fan
10-09-2007, 02:34 PM
the numbers come from the gamebook on NFL.com, infantry.

http://http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29257&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2007&week=REG5

I didn't like the call then. I don't like it in hindsight either. I understand the 'why' of it completely. I just don't agree with it.

but hey, some will say 'six' and some will say 'half a dozen'.

Call it good clock management if you wish. I don't think so. Also, I watched the game last night again, and that last drive for the winning FG was terrible. They run on the first play and burn up almost 30 seconds, and then barely make it to the 40 yard line for a 57 yard FG. And they left one timeout on the table.
It's unforced errors that tick me off. The drive before the half was just as bad. They had 3:30 on the clock, and barely drive down for a 54 yarder.- BattleRedFlash pretty much the way I saw it also and the reason I don't think Kubiak has a good grasp yet on clock management.

Others will disagree with this and they have valid reason's behind that also.

poh-tato...............pah-tato. :texflag:

HJam72
10-09-2007, 02:40 PM
There is no excuse for that. I agree.

On another note, I watched the game again last night, and I'm sick of being nice to those Texan's fans that keep yelling when the Texans have the ball. Especially near the end zone.
The Texan's post the sign "Quiet, Offense Working", and these mo-rons keep yelling.
Schaub flaps his arms, and they keep yelling.
We need to tell them to shut up, and when they object, we need to power through it because we are right.

I thought fans in Texas knew football??

We do. We just can't read. :user:

infantrycak
10-09-2007, 03:00 PM
the numbers come from the gamebook on NFL.com, infantry.

They have a typo. Using net passing yards (taking out sack yardage) and adding the 2 sack plays to the attempts still gives 262 yds on 36 plays--7.27 ypp.

thegr8fan
10-09-2007, 03:26 PM
OK, I'll believe you is you say so, CAK.

all that does, though, is really prove the we were passing the ball signifigantly better than running it. Even more than my original numbers indicated. And yet Kubiak makes the argument that he was going for a first down by running the ball from the 3 yd line? Thats the part I don't agree with on that call. With the time left, the amount of time that play took off the clock, and the fact that we were moving the ball quite well by passing it, but instead we go for the 'playing not to lose' game instead of the 'taking it to them' game for a win.

We had alot more than 5-6 passing plays that looked good, said by someone else in this post.

And I think that THAT is the majority of the reason that alot of fans were 'boo-ing' their displeasure with that decision. I didn't boo, but I didn't like it either. And a couple of days later, after reading all the 'logical/deductive football field position, yada, yada, arguments, I STILL don't like that call at that time in that game.

In another game I could easily see myself on the other side of the fence and saying, good call for the safest way to ensure we didn't lose that game.

But in that game it was a bad call by Kubiak, IMO

real
10-09-2007, 03:37 PM
If Kubiak had called a pass and Jason Taylor comes around and sacks Schaub in the endzone there would ahve been people yelling from the peanut gallery about how stupid Kubiak was for passing in that situation because he knows we didn't have our top weapons and he knows Salaam has trouble with speed rushers.......

Blah, blah, blah...who cares...

You guys booed because you didn't understand the situation nor did you understand what he was trying to do......

The only reason I brought up the fact that he was atleast trying to get the first down is because many of you were booing because you thought he was playing for OT....YOU WERE WRONG....He was trying to get the first down to AT THE LEAST not have to give the Dolphins the ball back...

Use your head...

That is why after he got the first we started taking our shots down field...

He said as much in the interview yesterday...

If he had been playing for OT we would have actually...you know....played for OT....

Anywho...I'd suggest you all get used to the way Kubiak calls plays because as long as it's resulting in W's, I doubt he changes...

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 03:39 PM
I've not booed when we were on offense since, well................ since............... ummmm Chris Palmer was high atop Reliant Stadium, or Joe Pendry was making calls.

Vinny
10-09-2007, 03:53 PM
OK, I'll believe you is you say so, CAK.

all that does, though, is really prove the we were passing the ball signifigantly better than running it. Even more than my original numbers indicated. And yet Kubiak makes the argument that he was going for a first down by running the ball from the 3 yd line? Thats the part I don't agree with on that call.

what about Jason Taylor and his dominating the players who were blocking him? Isn't that supposed to factor in somewhere? Schaub took a couple of big sacks earlier in the middle of the field...no reason to think that the Dolphins weren't going to bring the house when we are backed up to our own 2 yard line and the game on the line.....a sack there ends the game.

Blazing Arrow
10-09-2007, 04:14 PM
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

I would call them a necessary evil .... now if they could all be placed in a certain area ... maybe take a quick multiple choice test when you purchase your tickets?

Double Barrel
10-09-2007, 04:49 PM
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

yeah, Los Angeles lost two teams that way.

I know you're attempting to link it to your owner leaving H-town, but your ignorance on the subject is clear. Bud did not leave because of ticket sales, but because the local politicians would not give him the land and funds to build a stadium for his 100% control.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 05:06 PM
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:


Don't start with that BS.. You know better, or at least I thought you did. It was ALL about a 'new' stadium.

Rex King
10-09-2007, 05:40 PM
And yet Kubiak makes the argument that he was going for a first down by running the ball from the 3 yd line? Thats the part I don't agree with on that call. With the time left, the amount of time that play took off the clock, and the fact that we were moving the ball quite well by passing it, but instead we go for the 'playing not to lose' game instead of the 'taking it to them' game for a win.

It's a bit of hindsight, but you could say the mistake was Cameron not calling timeout. If he had, that would have forced Kubiak's hand, and he probably would have just tried to run the clock on 2nd down, based on his comments.

thegr8fan
10-09-2007, 07:23 PM
That is why after he got the first we started taking our shots down field... uhmmm, nooooo, we actually got the first down on the very next play which was a 19 yd PASS. And then followed that with a 14 yd pass, and then followed that with another 19 yd pass. All of these STARTED from the 4yd line. Not downfield AFTER we got an initial first down from running.

And don't look back now, but that PASS was done from the 4 yd line. (unlike the previous RUN which was done from the 3 yd line). Which TOTALLY kills the 'what about Taylor sacking Schaub, argument, IMO, because (A) it didn't happen on the very next play from the 4yd line, and (B) do you really think that there is a difference in calling a RUN play from the 3 yd line and PASS play from the 4yd line, when your main argument is avoiding an INT/FUMBLE/SACK/SAFETY? There is NO difference in those situation and their potential to happen from either the 3yd line, or the 4 yd line. ONE whole yard does not change the equation of your arguments THAT much. IMO

thegr8fan
10-09-2007, 07:30 PM
It's a bit of hindsight, but you could say the mistake was Cameron not calling timeout. If he had, that would have forced Kubiak's hand, and he probably would have just tried to run the clock on 2nd down, based on his comments. I heard that also Rex and wondered it THAT was what prompted Kubiak to call a pass play on the next play.

OR

OK, now I am going to go out on a long skinny limb and hand the board a chainsaw to use here, BUUUTTTTTT


should we consider that PERHAPS the crowd 'boo-ing' Kubiak's RUN call, prompted him to go for a Pass play on the next play???

yeah I know, the Head Coach doesn't listen to the armchair QB's sittin in the stands and blah, blah.

But just consider it for a moment before you throw the BS card at this comment.

It IS a possibility. Not a good one, but a definite possibility............no?

YellerLotYeller
10-09-2007, 07:34 PM
Those same fans who do not know when to cheer and not to cheer support your team though ticket revenue. And if a team is not making enough ticket revenue they tend to leave the location they call home ..... sounds familiar some how :hmmm:

I would call them a necessary evil .... now if they could all be placed in a certain area ... maybe take a quick multiple choice test when you purchase your tickets?

We had no problem filling the Dome.....anyway you can have our leftovers.

YellerLotYeller
10-09-2007, 07:36 PM
I heard that also Rex and wondered it THAT was what prompted Kubiak to call a pass play on the next play.

OR

OK, now I am going to go out on a long skinny limb and hand the board a chainsaw to use here, BUUUTTTTTT


should we consider that PERHAPS the crowd 'boo-ing' Kubiak's RUN call, prompted him to go for a Pass play on the next play???

yeah I know, the Head Coach doesn't listen to the armchair QB's sittin in the stands and blah, blah.

But just consider it for a moment before you throw the BS card at this comment.

It IS a possibility. Not a good one, but a definite possibility............no?

No....

Kaiser Toro
10-09-2007, 07:43 PM
I heard that also Rex and wondered it THAT was what prompted Kubiak to call a pass play on the next play.

OR

OK, now I am going to go out on a long skinny limb and hand the board a chainsaw to use here, BUUUTTTTTT


should we consider that PERHAPS the crowd 'boo-ing' Kubiak's RUN call, prompted him to go for a Pass play on the next play???

yeah I know, the Head Coach doesn't listen to the armchair QB's sittin in the stands and blah, blah.

But just consider it for a moment before you throw the BS card at this comment.

It IS a possibility. Not a good one, but a definite possibility............no?

It is as possible as David Carr starting Week 4 of the season. Sometimes reason ain't got no reason to be known.

He hears the fans, but I really did not hear the volume of boos that some are suggesting.

Even in that scenario it proves to me we got the right coach between his mind, experience and his feel for the game and personnel. One really cannot understand the weight of, or the experience gained from, time, score and situation until you have tasted it as a player and coach. The dude is not walking on defrosted tundra, but there is a resurrection going on in Houston and it starts with the Aggiesexual. :texflag:

thegr8fan
10-09-2007, 07:44 PM
thanks for not using the chainsaw on that one YellowLot :shades:

YellerLotYeller
10-09-2007, 07:51 PM
thanks for not using the chainsaw on that one YellowLot :shades:

I took the weed-whacker approach.

Speedy
10-09-2007, 08:25 PM
I didn't have a problem with the run play. My problem was with the 40 seconds they ran off the clock before running the next play. Then I think it was when the called their 2nd TO when they were up to the line and could have easily spiked the ball. I just haven't been too impressed with clock management/use of timeouts the last couple or 3 games now.

As for the noise on offense, especially on 4th down, yeah, that just gets my blood boiling. I'm definitely letting my section know to STFU. I didn't get to go to a lot of Oiler games back in the day, so somebody who did will have to tell me...were the fans like that then, in the Luv Ya Blue days, R&S days, screaming when the offense had the ball?