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Texans_Chick
10-07-2007, 10:32 PM
Hey, does anyone here have the ability to YouTube the TJ/Green hit? I think a lot of people will be hearing or reading about it without seeing it, and I think seeing it explains a lot.

Trent Green got knocked out of the game.

By his own doing.

TJ was pissed. Because he got crushed in the knees.

TJ mouthed off. And got penalized for taunting.

Nobody nationally would have cared about this one lick if Travis Johnson got one of his knees busted up during this play.

(By the way, I am starting this in a new thread just to get attention to this to see if someone can YouTube it.)

HardcoreTexan
10-07-2007, 10:34 PM
You are very right

Runner
10-07-2007, 10:36 PM
There are other threads about this? :)

rollinstone18
10-07-2007, 10:37 PM
Nobody nationally would have cared about this one lick if Travis Johnson got one of his knees busted up during this play.

Exactly, I don't understand why the people calling Travis classless don't take that into consideration.

TigerV1
10-07-2007, 10:38 PM
Hey, does anyone here have the ability to YouTube the TJ/Green hit? I think a lot of people will be hearing or reading about it without seeing it, and I think seeing it explains a lot.

Trent Green got knocked out of the game.

By his own doing.

TJ was pissed. Because he got crushed in the knees.

TJ mouthed off. And got penalized for taunting.

Nobody nationally would have cared about this one lick if Travis Johnson got one of his knees busted up during this play.

(By the way, I am starting this in a new thread just to get attention to this to see if someone can YouTube it.)

Here ya go. TJ was right to be ticked. That was a cheap block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQhsrpAZ_a8

Hook'er
10-07-2007, 10:40 PM
Rollingstone.......it's only a few, the same one's that were hatin' on Dunta in the offseason!:texflag:

hot pickle
10-07-2007, 10:46 PM
ill support tj.. cause he was pissed and he didnt know green was injured and its greens own fault that he got injured.. its not like tj injured him and then taunted him... i got you tj :texflag:

MissouriTexan
10-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Here ya go. TJ was right to be ticked. That was a cheap block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQhsrpAZ_a8

Look at the wrist TJ lands on. That looked painful for both parties.

Texans_Chick
10-07-2007, 11:35 PM
ill support tj.. cause he was pissed and he didnt know green was injured and its greens own fault that he got injured.. its not like tj injured him and then taunted him... i got you tj :texflag:

What I'd like to see on YouTube is the taunting. I didn't TiVO the game because I gooned and I was at the game and didn't see it.

But what I did see was that Green was knocked out and not moving. And I heard that Johnson stood over him and said mess to him. And that it looked awful on TV.

I'm guessing I'll see it soon enough on ESPN.

jaybird
10-07-2007, 11:36 PM
They have it on NFL.com fyi

beerlover
10-07-2007, 11:36 PM
one things for sure we have not heard or seen the last of it :tvhorror: just a very unfortunate series of events in what was probably the ugliest play ever witnessed @ Relient.

Brandon420tx
10-07-2007, 11:39 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos;jsessionid=3D0EC14FF2F45BD368A611F5F8C82DF5 ?videoId=09000d5d80308be9

Go to the 50 second mark

The Pencil Neck
10-07-2007, 11:59 PM
It's already started a debate.

Tiki Barber called it a cheap shot by Green. The Bus said it was a QB trying to make a play.

Brandon420tx
10-08-2007, 12:03 AM
Ding Ding, Round 1. The battle of the Running Backs!

Texans_Chick
10-08-2007, 12:21 AM
It's already started a debate.

Tiki Barber called it a cheap shot by Green. The Bus said it was a QB trying to make a play.

Okay, here's the video packaged in one place.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/07/travis-johnson-worst-person-in-the-nfl/

Htownsportsfan
10-08-2007, 12:23 AM
I thought Spencer Tillman made a pretty good point, rare I know. It looked like Green wanted to throw a block and then relizaed he was gonna get leveled and bailed out. Unfortunate for him he went low and made a BS cut block! I mean think about it it is Trent Green, he lost almost all of last year due to a head injury, is he really going to put that old ass body and head in harms way if he is thinking straight. Again I understand TJ beiong mad on the field and showing bad judgement but running your mouth to the media is never a good idea, see Kellen (I am a soldier) Winslow!

Hook'er
10-08-2007, 12:40 AM
I wanna see the press conference.

GP
10-08-2007, 12:51 AM
I thought Spencer Tillman made a pretty good point, rare I know. It looked like Green wanted to throw a block and then relizaed he was gonna get leveled and bailed out. Unfortunate for him he went low and made a BS cut block! I mean think about it it is Trent Green, he lost almost all of last year due to a head injury, is he really going to put that old ass body and head in harms way if he is thinking straight. Again I understand TJ beiong mad on the field and showing bad judgement but running your mouth to the media is never a good idea, see Kellen (I am a soldier) Winslow!

Exactly.

Trent has had that "Engine is running, but nobody's driving the car" look this whole season...the lingering effect of a body that needs to be out of the NFL. He's unable to make quick decisions, he pumps the ball over and over, and he drifts around in the pocket unlike most QBs. The hit in KC should have been his last game, IMO.

Had Cleo Lemon not come into the game, we'd have had 4 sacks and 4 interceptions...we would have won the game going away.

Lemon's mobility saved the day for Miami.

Texans_Chick
10-08-2007, 12:59 AM
I wanna see the press conference.

The stuff that Travis said post game was in the locker room. The fullest excerpt I've seen is in the Miami paper's account:

http://www.miamiherald.com/breaking_sports/story/263903.html

''At 12:01, I had a lot of respect for Trent Green,'' Johnson said. ``At 12:20, I said [expletive] Trent Green. To hit my knee like that, that's uncalled for. He's like the scarecrow -- he wants to get courage while I'm not looking and hit me in my knee instead of trying to hit me in my head. God don't like ugly -- you know what I mean?

``My knee ain't never hurt like it hurt today. When I was up in the air, looking at the ceiling, I was wondering what was going to happen if I came down on my head. It was a dirty play. Football's not like that. If you want to hit me, hit me in my shoulders, not my knees. That just showed what type of man he is.''


The apology stuff that the Texans released in their press release is this:

(opening statement) “I apologize for going off like that. We D-lineman, when you have someone going at your knees, its kind of tough. But at the same time, I shouldn’t have reacted like that. The penalty ended up leading to a score, so really I hurt my team. I shouldn’t have let my anger get to me, so I apologize to coach Kubiak, because I hurt my team. Really, I should have kept my cool. Being in that type of situation, this is a game of controlled violence, and I really I let my anger get the best of me.”


(on what happened during that play) “You know, I apologized to (coach) Kubiak, if you know what I’m saying, letting him know. I was frustrated. I mean, when I cant see someone and they hit me low while I’m running full speed, that kind of got me…while I’m upside down, while my head is looking at the screen upside down, I’m kind of looking at it like, ‘Man, is this it.’ It’s just one of those things where I apologize, but all I could think about was my family. I’m trying to eat like everyone else out here. I just let my anger get the best of me.”

It's Texans Pravda, comrades.

John McClain did mention that TJ landed on his head after the hit. Probably doesn't explain the locker room thingy.

The AP report is a perfect illustration of why you have to see the games yourself, and can't trust the recaps. From anyone. Humans have filters and biases and have to pick and choose what they can write based on space they are allowed to write. It just is how it is.

The TJ story is going to be the big news of this game, and the thing that is sensationalized because nobody cares about a field goal fest, they just want the if it bleeds it leads thing. It just is how it is.

Vinny
10-08-2007, 01:01 AM
John McClain did mention that TJ landed on his head after the hit. Probably doesn't explain the locker room thingy.I suspect that this isn't the first time TJ has been dropped on his head.

AnthonyE
10-08-2007, 02:04 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos;jsessionid=3D0EC14FF2F45BD368A611F5F8C82DF5 ?videoId=09000d5d80308be9

Go to the 50 second mark

I hate those announcers. Its not Anthony Weaver, and it was not a nice block. They need to get facts straight.

Nice find though, looked everywhere for that.

quicksilver
10-08-2007, 07:51 AM
I didn't TiVO the game

If you had, you'd briefly see yourself in the stands somewhere around 10 minutes remaining in the 3rd quarter. Unless I'm very mistaken.

White Runningback
10-08-2007, 08:58 AM
TJ was wrong for what he did, plain and simple. Anyone who has played sports knows this. Too many of you are trying to mitigate the heinousness of his behavior because he wears a Texans uniform.

TexansLucky13
10-08-2007, 09:23 AM
TJ was wrong for what he did, plain and simple. Anyone who has played sports knows this. Too many of you are trying to mitigate the heinousness of his behavior because he wears a Texans uniform.

He was wrong for the post-game rant.... but I am not going to say he was wrong for taunting. Should he have done it? Not at all. But he got caught up in it.

The fact it, is WAS a cheap block. If Trent Green hadn't got the daylights knocked out of him, no one would have cared about the taunting. You can bet your ass that the Texans FO would still be pissed about the block, though.

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 09:39 AM
TJ was wrong for what he did, plain and simple. Anyone who has played sports knows this. Too many of you are trying to mitigate the heinousness of his behavior because he wears a Texans uniform.

I could not agree more. People are making excuses for him because he COULD have been hurt seriously and the block was chicken bleep but the fact is you have to stop yourself from hurting the team with a 15 yarder and then after the fact you have to choose your words wisely. Its the way it is. If he is ranting on the field I get it but I'm not sure how people are glossing walking over to a lifeless body, pointing down at them and yelling....it almost looked like he was saying "good." His comments after the game back this up. I'll take the most of the people here ripping me but you have to strip it away and be responsible for your own actions. The fact of the matter is Green, despite his crappy block, WAS laying there and it was plain as day something was wrong.

Here is a complete look on youtube with slow down mode...how some people yesterday said he just walked over to him and walked over him is beyond me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2weKmGtemn8&NR=1

Texans_Chick
10-08-2007, 09:54 AM
I could not agree more. People are making excuses for him because he COULD have been hurt seriously and the block was chicken bleep but the fact is you have to stop yourself from hurting the team with a 15 yarder and then after the fact you have to choose your words wisely. Its the way it is. If he is ranting on the field I get it but I'm not sure how people are glossing walking over to a lifeless body, pointing down at them and yelling....it almost looked like he was saying "good." His comments after the game back this up. I'll take the most of the people here ripping me but you have to strip it away and be responsible for your own actions. The fact of the matter is Green, despite his crappy block, WAS laying there and it was plain as day something was wrong.

Here is a complete look on youtube with slow down mode...how some people yesterday said he just walked over to him and walked over him is beyond me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2weKmGtemn8&NR=1

Slow mo makes it look worse. He didn't stand over him screaming. He walked by him, and said junk on the way. You can see that in the NFL.com video.

Interestingly, Olberman doesn't mention how hard the collision was to Johnson.

Suffice to say, I think it was said best in today's The Debriefing (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/08/the-debriefing-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-sunday-week-5/):

Texans defensive lineman Travis Johnson, a couple of hours after his knee knocked Trent Green out:

"At 12:01, I had a lot of respect for Trent Green. At about 12:20, I said, '**** Trent Green,' because the bottom line is it was a malicious hit. It was uncalled for. He's like the scarecrow. He wanted to get courage while I wasn't looking and hit me in my knee instead of trying to hit me in my head. God don't like ugly, you know what I mean?"
I can't speak for God (you might wanna ask Jon Kitna, though), but He also probably also doesn't like it when you taunt a motionless old quarterback with a history of concussion problems, no matter what he did.

I know it's frustrating when guys put their helmets in your knees, and I'd be mad, too, but still ... Trent Green might have been dead right there. Certain situations call for a little restraint, no?

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 09:55 AM
Disagree.... TOTALLY...

Anyone who ever played the game, knows there is an unspoken rule about going after someone's knees... PERIOD..

Don't people criticize Denver's O-line for 'chop' blocking?? Why?? Because 'chop' blocking is going after the knees.... Samething. You do NOT go after anyone's knees. PERIOD!!!

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 10:00 AM
Slow mo makes it look worse. He didn't stand over him screaming. He walked by him, and said junk on the way. You can see that in the NFL.com video.

Interestingly, Olberman doesn't mention how hard the collision was to Johnson.

Suffice to say, I think it was said best in today's The Debriefing (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/08/the-debriefing-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-sunday-week-5/):

I think that says it best too. As I've said all along...I'm making no excuses for Green or the block. It is a horrible, career ending block...but after the fact you have to assess the situation a little better and TJ didn't do that. There is the rub with me.

Disagree.... TOTALLY...

Anyone who ever played the game, knows there is an unspoken rule about going after someone's knees... PERIOD..

Don't people criticize Denver's O-line for 'chop' blocking?? Why?? Because 'chop' blocking is going after the knees.... Samething. You do NOT go after anyone's knees. PERIOD!!!

I respect your opinion, as always, TB but where is the rule that one chicken bleep play deserves another?So Green's hit was a big no-no, it still doesn't take away from the fact of how TJ reacted. I'd be peeved too but he turned around and saw Green out...it was evident the minute we watched it on TV. My wife was like, "holy...the guy is dead"..the minute it happened. TJ saw it and should have ranted elsewhere and then held back later. I don't like the excuse of one bad deed deserves another.

ObsiWan
10-08-2007, 10:11 AM
TJ was wrong for what he did, plain and simple. Anyone who has played sports knows this. Too many of you are trying to mitigate the heinousness of his behavior because he wears a Texans uniform.


"Heinous"?!?!? Please. Talk about over dramatic.

All TJ did was yell at Green. "Heinous" is what Haynesworth did when he stomped that O-lineman in the head last year. This was mild by comparison.

As we've all stated, TJ's rant after the game was totally stupid. He watched the man being carted off the field - so even being pissed, he should have called it even at that point. AND the Texans' staff should have seen the post-game questions coming and coached him on what not to say.

Texans_Chick
10-08-2007, 10:16 AM
If you had, you'd briefly see yourself in the stands somewhere around 10 minutes remaining in the 3rd quarter. Unless I'm very mistaken.

Yeah, since I got my new seats after 2005, I'm like Where's Waldo. The camera guys do a lot of stuff in front of that section.

I bet it was right after a Texans holding call that brought back a long catch.

I remember at some point cussing and yelling and then noticing and seeing the camera man pointing the camera in my direction. ACK! And then me trying to figure out if I said or did anything particularly unfortunate. I have to admit to a lot of cussing for a win.

dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 10:30 AM
Here's another question: if the taunting happened at the end of the play and took place on the 46 yard line, and Ted Ginn was tackled on the 46 or 47, why did the Dolphins get the ball on the 25?

White Runningback
10-08-2007, 10:42 AM
Slow mo makes it look worse. He didn't stand over him screaming. He walked by him, and said junk on the way. You can see that in the NFL.com video.

Interestingly, Olberman doesn't mention how hard the collision was to Johnson.

Suffice to say, I think it was said best in today's The Debriefing (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/08/the-debriefing-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-sunday-week-5/):

Doesn't matter, IMO. Taunting has no place in sports regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. Just because he didn't set his feet and lean over him doesn't mean it wasn't taunting. He certainly was pointing and jawing in the direction of Green, the referee construed it as taunting, and he was rightfully flagged for it. Nevermind that both Kubiak and Johnson said it was the wrong thing to do after the game.

Everyone wants to talk about it being a dirty block. I concur that the method he went about trying to deliver the block was in poor form (he is a QB, why would you expect it to be a perfectly executed block, anyway), but I really think that the intention to cause injury was not there. His head was turned away from Johnson.

BTW, has Green ever manifested a proclivity for dirty play?

White Runningback
10-08-2007, 10:44 AM
"Heinous"?!?!? Please. Talk about over dramatic.

All TJ did was yell at Green. "Heinous" is what Haynesworth did when he stomped that O-lineman in the head last year. This was mild by comparison.

As we've all stated, TJ's rant after the game was totally stupid. He watched the man being carted off the field - so even being pissed, he should have called it even at that point. AND the Texans' staff should have seen the post-game questions coming and coached him on what not to say.

Poor choice in words. He clearly was uncharacteristically unsportsmanlike.

Sorry.

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 10:47 AM
I think that says it best too. As I've said all along...I'm making no excuses for Green or the block. It is a horrible, career ending block...but after the fact you have to assess the situation a little better and TJ didn't do that. There is the rub with me.



I respect your opinion, as always, TB but where is the rule that one chicken bleep play deserves another?So Green's hit was a big no-no, it still doesn't take away from the fact of how TJ reacted. I'd be peeved too but he turned around and saw Green out...it was evident the minute we watched it on TV. My wife was like, "holy...the guy is dead"..the minute it happened. TJ saw it and should have ranted elsewhere and then held back later. I don't like the excuse of one bad deed deserves another.


I respect your opinion too, Frog, but I would be curious if another attorney made a cheap play to have you disbarred, how would you react??

Trent Green made a cognisant decision to go after TJ's knees. TJ 'reacted' to the choice that Green made. Remember that Green was on his side with his face towards the turf - when Johnson reacted so, in all honesty there's a good chance that TJ did not know Green was out at that point.

If anything I take more issue with TJ's act in the locker room - after the game. Those comments were uncalled for.

dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 10:52 AM
Doesn't matter, IMO. Taunting has no place in sports regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. Just because he didn't set his feet and lean over him doesn't mean it wasn't taunting. He certainly was pointing and jawing in the direction of Green, the referee construed it as taunting, and he was rightfully flagged for it. Nevermind that both Kubiak and Johnson said it was the wrong thing to do after the game.

Everyone wants to talk about it being a dirty block. I concur that the method he went about trying to deliver the block was in poor form (he is a QB, why would you expect it to be a perfectly executed block, anyway), but I really think that the intention to cause injury was not there. His head was turned away from Johnson.

BTW, has Green ever manifested a proclivity for dirty play?

If "intent" is the key to determining blame or dirtiness, then Johnson is innocent. He didn't not intend to get flagged or injure Green.

The reality is that both Green and Johnson are guilty of the same thing- both of them were unconcerned with the others' well-being. That unconcern or lack of integrity is what allowed Green to risk Johnson's health by slamming his helmet into his knee, and Johnson showed his lack of concern for Green by yelling at him when he was face down on the turf.

Chance_C
10-08-2007, 10:52 AM
TJ could have definately been hurt on that play, but I certainly cannot condone his behavior afterwards. Seeing our very own called the worst player in the NFL (for the week) during halftime of the Packers/Bears game was not something to be proud of.

Texans_Chick
10-08-2007, 11:00 AM
Doesn't matter, IMO. Taunting has no place in sports regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. Just because he didn't set his feet and lean over him doesn't mean it wasn't taunting.He certainly was pointing and jawing in the direction of Green, the referee construed it as taunting, and he was rightfully flagged for it. Nevermind that both Kubiak and Johnson said it was the wrong thing to do after the game.

Everyone wants to talk about it being a dirty block. I concur that the method he went about trying to deliver the block was in poor form (he is a QB, why would you expect it to be a perfectly executed block, anyway), but I really think that the intention to cause injury was not there. His head was turned away from Johnson.

BTW, has Green ever manifested a proclivity for dirty play?

A taunting penalty is a judgment call. Players are not supposed to get into situations where what they are doing could be considered taunting. Players yell at other players all the time, but generally not when they are lying motionless on the ground.

This was a good use of a taunting penalty because otherwise this is the sort of situation where a fight on the field could happen.

Yankee_In_TX
10-08-2007, 11:10 AM
What qrtr was the play during? (looking for a photo)

Shaft75
10-08-2007, 11:12 AM
What qrtr was the play during? (looking for a photo)

End of the 1st

TexansLucky13
10-08-2007, 11:13 AM
TJ could have definately been hurt on that play, but I certainly cannot condone his behavior afterwards. Seeing our very own called the worst player in the NFL (for the week) during halftime of the Packers/Bears game was not something to be proud of.

I can't believe that I have to say this to a fellow Texans fan....

Ignore the media

You should know that by now.

Porky
10-08-2007, 11:24 AM
The scarecrow needed a brain. The lion needed courage.

Me thinks Travis is the scarecrow here, and Trent is the lion.

I can see why TJ was ticked off, but he cost his team 7 points in that situation. And to make matters worse he mouthed off a couple of hours later. I didn't like the block either, and TJ now has to have an MRI, but the lasting national image will be TJ standing over a lifeless Green pointing his finger at him. He should have been ticked off, but not to the detriment of his team.

gtexan02
10-08-2007, 11:26 AM
Did TJ play the rest of the game?

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 11:29 AM
I respect your opinion too, Frog, but I would be curious if another attorney made a cheap play to have you disbarred, how would you react??

Trent Green made a cognisant decision to go after TJ's knees. TJ 'reacted' to the choice that Green made. Remember that Green was on his side with his face towards the turf - when Johnson reacted so, in all honesty there's a good chance that TJ did not know Green was out at that point.

If anything I take more issue with TJ's act in the locker room - after the game. Those comments were uncalled for.

I'd be peeved but I'd have to temper wanting to get revenge or being peeved with what is the best thing for me to do in the situation. However, I'm not going to sit here and act like I would know how he'd feel after that play and being flipped. I will say that in high school I was playing DB and this WR tried to cut me and then hung onto my legs...I ended up punching the guy to get him off my legs. Ref saw it...15 yards.. and my coach pulled me for a play. I told him I only tried to throw the guy off my legs. In film session that Monday it was almost like the camera zoomed in on me and I had pulled back from Brooklyn to throw the punch..lol. Coach was a tiny peeved to say the least. Anyways, dumb play on my part. That is how I feel about TJ...he had a right to be peeved but the way he went over to him bothered me. I know Green was facing the other ways but he looked dead...again, I can't say how TJ saw the angle or whatever.

I may be wrong though. I can see people's point. I just think about it differently. But I think we all agree that he should have shut it down post-game.

BullPenPhotos
10-08-2007, 11:30 AM
(looking for a photo)

Does this one work?
http://www.texansbullpen.com/07photogallery/Season/2007-10-07-Dolphins-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0336.JPG

Thorn
10-08-2007, 11:30 AM
the national media doesn't care about the truth of the situation, they only care about what is sensational and sells deodorant.

That's why they are going to keep showing the picture of TJ standing over Green because it enrages people while selling deodorant and cars.

I'm already getting sick of the TJ and Green thing. I need to stay out of these threads before I start saying stupid things.

disaacks3
10-08-2007, 11:38 AM
the national media doesn't care about the truth of the situation, they only care about what is sensational and sells deodorant.

That's why they are going to keep showing the picture of TJ standing over Green because it enrages people while selling deodorant and cars.

I'm already getting sick of the TJ and Green thing. I need to stay out of these threads before I start saying stupid things. Collinsworth was on-record before last night's game as calling Green's block a "cheap shot".

TJ jumping up and yelling at Green I have no problem with (as he was unaware that Green was unconscious) and it was a "heat of the moment" response to a guy sending him ***-over-teakettle with a cut block that could have ended TJ's year (or career). His (TJ's) behavior AFTER the game was just plain stupid, and part of the reason that "maturity level" has been a knock on TJ since before he came out of college.

Yankee_In_TX
10-08-2007, 11:47 AM
Yes Andy, thanks. I fully understand why TJ was ticked, look at that picture. In addition to a possible season ending knee injury, he could have broken his neck (see picture above). Also, his arm was out mid-cartwheel and he came down awkwardly on his wrist. Could have broken it.

Whe said after the game was plain immature.

National media needs to recognize he did apologize later.

The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 11:48 AM
Yes Andy, thanks. I fully understand why TJ was ticked, look at that picture. In addition to a possible season ending knee injury, he could have broken his neck (see picture above).

Whe said after the game was plain immature.

National media needs to recognize hid did apologize later.

The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.

BINGO!!!!

thegr8fan
10-08-2007, 11:54 AM
And if you saw the replay of the after game interview, at least ONE of his teammates was trying to get his attention and tell him to SHUT UP, and quite sounding like the fool that he was sounding like.

He did come out and apologize for that rant late, but I suspect it was after, hopefully, he got a 'heated conversation' directed at him by either his teammates, coaches, owner of the team, or all of them.

was it a QB cheap shot? YEP

Was it only making the situation worse by the poor Sportmanship exibited by TJ afterwards, no doubt about it.

Instead of the media showing replays of what happens when a QB uplugs his brain and takes on a DT, the replays are now showing what happens when a DT, Johnson, unplugs his brain, and taunts an unconscious player.

embarrassing is putting it mildly

powerfuldragon
10-08-2007, 11:56 AM
The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.
which hit in which situation? the knee to the head? that can't be illegal because it wasn't the blockee's fault that the blocker's head was where it was.

Yankee_In_TX
10-08-2007, 11:59 AM
which hit in which situation? the knee to the head? that can't be illegal because it wasn't the blockee's fault that the blocker's head was where it was.

No, it should be an illegal chop block (what Green did).

powerfuldragon
10-08-2007, 12:03 PM
No, it should be an illegal chop block (what Green did).
i thought it already was illegal...

thegr8fan
10-08-2007, 12:07 PM
The NFL rules should change such that that hit in that type of situation is illegal.

there is a rule for no hitting below the waist in the event of a turnover, INT or Fumble recovery by the Defensive team. There is no rule for a fumble, and subsequent recovery by the same team. I am sure this will looked at the competition committee for possilbe rule changes during the next offseason, especially with the attraction that this play has generated in the media.

the NFL is trying to protect the players from injury as much as possible, with most of its rule changes.

this is definitely something that needs to have some Rule Enforcement behind it.

gtexan02
10-08-2007, 12:09 PM
Peter King's article about it:

He takes Greens side

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/10/07/mmqb.week5/index.html

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 12:20 PM
:) there is a rule for no hitting below the waist in the event of a turnover, INT or Fumble recovery by the Defensive team. There is no rule for a fumble, and subsequent recovery by the same team. I am sure this will looked at the competition committee for possilbe rule changes during the next offseason, especially with the attraction that this play has generated in the media.

the NFL is trying to protect the players from injury as much as possible, with most of its rule changes.

this is definitely something that needs to have some Rule Enforcement behind it.

Right, it wasn't illegal. Mike and Mike talked about it........

For all that I said saying TJ should have laid off Mike and Mike agreed with TJ and told the whole story...at least on the initial anger stuff. They spelled it out instead of just saying TJ kneed him. Golic was just as peeved but didn't think Greens hit was malicious....just that TJ deserved to be peeved and rect the way he did. Again, not my opinion but I respect Golic and I am wrong sometimes.:) You can listen to it on ESPN

dalemurphy
10-08-2007, 12:20 PM
there is a rule for no hitting below the waist in the event of a turnover, INT or Fumble recovery by the Defensive team. There is no rule for a fumble, and subsequent recovery by the same team. I am sure this will looked at the competition committee for possilbe rule changes during the next offseason, especially with the attraction that this play has generated in the media.

the NFL is trying to protect the players from injury as much as possible, with most of its rule changes.

this is definitely something that needs to have some Rule Enforcement behind it.


The only time/place that a block below the waiste that isn't a face-to-face engagement, is inside the tackles and at the line of scrimmage. This was a clip from the side, outside the tackle, and away from the LOS. I'm pretty sure that is an illegal block.

thegr8fan
10-08-2007, 12:29 PM
The only time/place that a block below the waiste that isn't a face-to-face engagement, is inside the tackles and at the line of scrimmage. This was a clip from the side, outside the tackle, and away from the LOS. I'm pretty sure that is an illegal block.

I am absolutely positive that it was a cheap shot, yet TOTALLY legal block, according to the rules.

Defensive players have been lobby-ing for this rule change for years now. Due to exact situations like this happening in previous games. They just didn't get as much national attention as this particular one has, and the owners have never been able to get a majority vote to change the rule, previously.

I understand TJ's Heat of the Moment anger, but when you go back to a guy laying on the ground unconscious, isn't that 'justice' enough, without the pointing of a finger and the verbal assault, that Green didn't hear anyway.

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 12:34 PM
To help clarify definitions:
CLIP
CLIPPING: Throwing the body across the back of an opponent's leg or hitting him from the back below the waist while moving up from behind unless the opponent is a runner or the action is in close line play.

CRACKBACK Eligible receivers who take or move to a position more than two yards outside the tackle may not block an opponent below the waist if they then move back inside to block.
CRACKBACK BLOCK: Blocking by an offensive player who goes downfield then turns back to the middle to block a player from the side.
CHOP BLOCK
An offensive player may not block a person below the waist from behind.

Hervoyel
10-08-2007, 12:46 PM
Doesn't matter, IMO. Taunting has no place in sports regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. Just because he didn't set his feet and lean over him doesn't mean it wasn't taunting. He certainly was pointing and jawing in the direction of Green, the referee construed it as taunting, and he was rightfully flagged for it. Nevermind that both Kubiak and Johnson said it was the wrong thing to do after the game.

Everyone wants to talk about it being a dirty block. I concur that the method he went about trying to deliver the block was in poor form (he is a QB, why would you expect it to be a perfectly executed block, anyway), but I really think that the intention to cause injury was not there. His head was turned away from Johnson.

BTW, has Green ever manifested a proclivity for dirty play?

Look, the penalty that was called is called "taunting". I have nowhere seen or read that what Travis Johnson actually did was to "taunt" Trent Green. There is a distinct difference between taunting someone and screaming "Hey WTF do you think you're doing hitting me low like that?"

For the record I don't know what he said but I'm pretty confident that all of the people (including yourself) who are coming unglued over the diabolical horror that is Travis Johnson don't know what he said either.

Watch it in real time and note that he gets up (after landing on his head), finds the guy who hit him in the knee, and walks toward him shouting. About the time he gets to where Green is on the ground Johnson clearly realizes that Green is hurt and shuts his trap and heads for the sideline. Sadly this is too late to prevent the flag but he's not a nazi war criminal and the people pointing out that what he actually did wasn't nearly as horrifying as it's being made out to be are right. Johnson did nothing on the field to be ashamed of.

His tirade post-game I think he should be embarrassed about but I don't think Johnson is the sharpest tool in the shed. Instead of apologizing for losing his cool and saying that he hopes Green makes a full recovery he tried to justify what he did on the field. That was a mistake and makes this situation worse not better.

Cjeremy635
10-08-2007, 01:22 PM
The scarecrow needed a brain. The lion needed courage.

Me thinks Travis is the scarecrow here, and Trent is the lion.

I can see why TJ was ticked off, but he cost his team 7 points in that situation. And to make matters worse he mouthed off a couple of hours later. I didn't like the block either, and TJ now has to have an MRI, but the lasting national image will be TJ standing over a lifeless Green pointing his finger at him. He should have been ticked off, but not to the detriment of his team.

I call foul! :penalty: Poor choice of words. He was limp, not dead. Keep this in perspective.

Vinny
10-08-2007, 01:26 PM
Look, the penalty that was called is called "taunting". I have nowhere seen or read that what Travis Johnson actually did was to "taunt" Trent Green. There is a distinct difference between taunting someone and screaming "Hey WTF do you think you're doing hitting me low like that?"

For the record I don't know what he said but I'm pretty confident that all of the people (including yourself) who are coming unglued over the diabolical horror that is Travis Johnson don't know what he said either.

Watch it in real time and note that he gets up (after landing on his head), finds the guy who hit him in the knee, and walks toward him shouting. About the time he gets to where Green is on the ground Johnson clearly realizes that Green is hurt and shuts his trap and heads for the sideline. Sadly this is too late to prevent the flag but he's not a nazi war criminal and the people pointing out that what he actually did wasn't nearly as horrifying as it's being made out to be are right. Johnson did nothing on the field to be ashamed of.

His tirade post-game I think he should be embarrassed about but I don't think Johnson is the sharpest tool in the shed. Instead of apologizing for losing his cool and saying that he hopes Green makes a full recovery he tried to justify what he did on the field. That was a mistake and makes this situation worse not better.

yep, thats pretty much how I see it too.

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 01:32 PM
Watch it in real time and note that he gets up (after landing on his head), finds the guy who hit him in the knee, and walks toward him shouting. About the time he gets to where Green is on the ground Johnson clearly realizes that Green is hurt and shuts his trap and heads for the sideline. Sadly this is too late to prevent the flag but he's not a nazi war criminal and the people pointing out that what he actually did wasn't nearly as horrifying as it's being made out to be are right. Johnson did nothing on the field to be ashamed of.

Maybe I'm the only one but it looks bad in real time and slow motion to me. He points down at him 3 times and all the while you can see Miami players already motioning for the trainers to get over there. He walks away once he starts to get past him. I've already explained my view before but I think it looks bad. I think most of us agree on the post game stuff. Its not something I care to debate though. We all have a matter of opinion of where TJ started acting a fool. I think the block being b.s. and after the game is pretty uniform. It is that 5 seconds after that people see different things.

Cjeremy635
10-08-2007, 01:38 PM
yep, thats pretty much how I see it too.

me too, 100%.

Hervoyel
10-08-2007, 01:46 PM
Maybe I'm the only one but it looks bad in real time and slow motion to me. He points down at him 3 times and all the while you can see Miami players already motioning for the trainers to get over there. He walks away once he starts to get past him. I've already explained my view before but I think it looks bad. I think most of us agree on the post game stuff. Its not something I care to debate though. We all have a matter of opinion of where TJ started acting a fool. I think the block being b.s. and after the game is pretty uniform. It is that 5 seconds after that people see different things.


I understand where you're coming from but at the same time there are lots of things going on at that moment. Travis Johnson is focused on Trent Green and he's mad at Trent Green because he thinks that Trent Green threw a dangerous block. He's not looking at the other Miami players or paying attention to what they're doing. the entire thing from the moment he finds Green to the moment he jogs past him takes only 3-4 seconds.

In my opinion the slow motion versions make this look like some kind of "ban him for life" moment when it was really just an unfortunate sequence of events. It would have never taken on the life it has if Travis Johnson had just played it smart following the game.

real
10-08-2007, 01:48 PM
Lets say your child called you and was in trouble or immediately needed your help...like pronto...

You get in your car and begin speeding to their aid....

A cop pulls you over......You explain to him why you are speeding and ask to be let off with a warning so that you may attend to your ailing child...

He says no, states he could care less and he gives you a ticket anyways, further delaying you.

Totally legal, and understandable on the cops part...Totally understandable why you'd be upset....


Now lets say after writing the ticket the cop is walking back to his car and he trips over a rock and takes a nasty spill....He falls with his face in the mud...Legs fly in the air and it looks like a cartoon scene...

I don't know about you, but my original reaction is going to be to laugh....I'd be so ticked that he just gave me that ticket that my initial reaction probably wouldn't be to see if he was o.k...If he laid there motionless for a second, then that's when I'd probably realize what happened and see if I could help..

If I found out all he got was a bump on the head and he'll be alright, I'd probably say something along the same lines as T.J...Something like: "That ****, I had an emergency to tend to involving my child and that piece of ***** officer wouldn't let me go"

I can totally understand where he is coming from....He's human....Maybe I'm a monster too, but oh well....so goes life...

PapaL
10-08-2007, 01:48 PM
I am absolutely positive that it was a cheap shot, yet TOTALLY legal block, according to the rules.

Defensive players have been lobby-ing for this rule change for years now. Due to exact situations like this happening in previous games. They just didn't get as much national attention as this particular one has, and the owners have never been able to get a majority vote to change the rule, previously.


Bocking below the waist, i.e. the knees, is allowed near the LOS.

In the open field, i.e. on 20 yard loss, it is not allowed.

As taken from NFL.com; link (http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/definitions)


#3 Close Line Play: The area between the positions normally occupied by the offensive tackles, extending three yards on each side of the line of scrimmage. It is legal to clip above the knee.

#4 Crackback: Eligible receivers who take or move to a position more than two yards outside the tackle may not block an opponent below the waist if they then move back inside to block.

powerfuldragon
10-08-2007, 01:50 PM
ronnie brown blocked the hell out of petey.

HoustonFrog
10-08-2007, 01:50 PM
I understand where you're coming from but at the same time there are lots of things going on at that moment. Travis Johnson is focused on Trent Green and he's mad at Trent Green because he thinks that Trent Green threw a dangerous block. He's not looking at the other Miami players or paying attention to what they're doing. the entire thing from the moment he finds Green to the moment he jogs past him takes only a few seconds.

In my opinion the slow motion versions make this look like some kind of "ban him for life" moment when it was really just an unfortunate sequence of events. It would have never taken on the life it has if Travis Johnson had just played it smart following the game.

Could not agree more. I also want people to understand that my opinion isn't some soapbox moment where I think TJ is some kind of bad guy. I think alot of it comes from seeing it on TV, having a reaction to it and the penalty and how it cost us and then hearing the words after the game. But I do understand him being peeved at the block and having a spur of the moment reaction...it just hit me bad. Again, I can't put myself in the heat of battle after getting upended like that.

Chance_C
10-08-2007, 01:52 PM
I can't believe that I have to say this to a fellow Texans fan....

Ignore the media

You should know that by now.

And your point is? I do know that the media sensationalizes everything, but I don't like one of the players on my favorite team being called the worst player in the NFL, whether it's right or wrong. Do I think he is the worst person in the NFL? Of course not, but it's an unfortunate light shed on the Texans. Everyone that watches football knows who TJ is. Hell, he's the worst person in the NFL...

Texan_Bill
10-08-2007, 01:55 PM
Everyone that watches football knows who TJ is. Hell, he's the worst person in the NFL...


Signed,


Warren Sapp


http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/5930581

The1ApplePie
10-08-2007, 02:00 PM
Shouldn't TJ being a bust get him some kind of excuse? Kind of like a mentally challenged person getting a lesser jail sentence?

Chance_C
10-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Signed,


Warren Sapp


http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/5930581

Surely it doesn't look like I think he is in my post. Surely the part where I say, "do I think he's the worst person in the NFL", and followed with "of course not" states what I think.


And BTW, why wouldn't you sign your reply with Pacman? :cool:

real
10-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Bocking below the waist, i.e. the knees, is allowed near the LOS.

In the open field, i.e. on 20 yard loss, it is not allowed.

As taken from NFL.com; link (http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/definitions)


Clipping is not the same as chop blocking...

Clipping is when you hit a man in the back...Which means the back of the legs, or up high...

At the line of scrimmage in the trenches, clipping is allowed...It's not allowed anywhere else...

The crack back is when the reciever is lined up in the slot or outside and at the hike takes a B-line for a LB or DE, basically taking a blindside hit...They are saying that recievers can not cut in situations like that...

You can chop anywhere anytime except on change of posessions and I believe special teams.....

Meaning that if a RB or WR breaks, his teammate CAN chop down field, just as long as he is hitting the defender in the front and not "clipping" him from the back...

PapaL
10-08-2007, 02:13 PM
Clipping is not the same as chop blocking...

Clipping is when you hit a man in the back...Which means the back of the legs, or up high...

At the line of scrimmage in the trenches, clipping is allowed...It's not allowed anywhere else...

The crack back is when the reciever is lined up in the slot or outside and at the hike takes a B-line for a LB or DE, basically taking a blindside hit...They are saying that recievers can not cut in situations like that...

You can chop anywhere anytime except on change of posessions and I believe special teams.....

Meaning that if a RB or WR breaks, his teammate CAN chop down field, just as long as he is hitting the defender in the front and not "clipping" him from the back...

Was Green an Eligible receiver on that play? Lets see; fumble went backwards from the beginning, the ball was never once passed forward. He is an eligible and thus the rule does apply.

real
10-08-2007, 02:15 PM
Was Green an Eligible receiver on that play? Lets see; fumble went backwards from the beginning, the ball was never once passed forward. He is an eligible and thus the rule does apply.

Sorry, but you are competely wrong.

Do you know what a crack block is ?

QB's don't crack block....

They are talking about recievers lined up outside of the tackle box who immediately take a path to blindside a LB or DE on an outside run...

They are not allowed to cut block in those instances...

Neither of those rules you posted has anything to do with the play that happened...

rmartin65
10-08-2007, 02:16 PM
Regardless of the hit, you do not point at a guy hurt or not moving on the ground. Thats just low

Vinny
10-08-2007, 02:19 PM
Was Green an Eligible receiver on that play? Lets see; fumble went backwards from the beginning, the ball was never once passed forward. He is an eligible and thus the rule does apply.hitting a player blindly at the knee (especially helmet to knee) isn't considered kosher regardless of the rule at hand.

Brando
10-08-2007, 02:46 PM
me too, 100%.

Add me to the list.........

That whole sequence was interesting to watch. There were more blocks than the Green on Johnson but you see the other blocks were above the waist.

I added this to another thread............

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/Amberlybutterfly/output-1.gif

Joe Texan
10-08-2007, 02:48 PM
TJ was wrong for what he did, plain and simple. Anyone who has played sports knows this. Too many of you are trying to mitigate the heinousness of his behavior because he wears a Texans uniform.

TJ did not do any hitting to cause this tyrade. He lost his composure when a chump player took a cheap shot at a linemans knee. The only thing Travis did was lose his composure, and he apologized so let it be. Trent dug his own hole and fell into it and I for one am not giving him a ladder to climb out. I do hope he recovers but he took a cheep shot and it backfired. I hope that TJ's knee is ok. What kind of spin would it be if his knee is torn up, I believe if that is the outcome then this changes everything. If it is soreness and nothing else then lets play some football.

HOU-TEX
10-08-2007, 02:58 PM
ronnie brown blocked the hell out of petey.

No doubt! I'm talking blindside slobber knocker.:specnatz:

powerfuldragon
10-09-2007, 10:44 AM
Regardless of the hit, you do not point at a guy hurt or not moving on the ground. Thats just low
personally, i'd yell at a guy who'd just nearly killed me.
No doubt! I'm talking blindside slobber knocker.:specnatz:
yup. he had to reorient himself after that one.

Hervoyel
10-09-2007, 10:55 AM
Shouldn't TJ being a bust get him some kind of excuse? Kind of like a mentally challenged person getting a lesser jail sentence?

I just think this should be said again and again until the NFL decides to pass a rule protecting those that don't pan out. I think they should call it "TJ's Rule".

If Travis doesn't want to be so-honored they could call it "Reggie's Rule" instead and it would mean the same thing.

Andrew6
10-09-2007, 12:21 PM
I know everyones wrapped up in how is Trent Green but how is TJ? Last I heard he had to have an MRI. Did the results come back clean?

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 01:42 PM
I am ONLY worried about TJ, and yes I would be curious about the results of his MRI too.... Anybody???

powerfuldragon
10-09-2007, 01:46 PM
I know everyones wrapped up in how is Trent Green but how is TJ? Last I heard he had to have an MRI. Did the results come back clean?

I am ONLY worried about TJ, and yes I would be curious about the results of his MRI too.... Anybody???


i dunno how reliable this website (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFL&leaguenum=&id=3152) is, but it says:

An MRI on Travis Johnson's knee came back negative Monday.
Johnson reportedly heard some clicking after taking Trent Green's helmet to the knee Sunday. Coach Gary Kubiak reportedly spoke to the league Monday about Green's block, but was told that it was legal.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Thanks Dragon... I think Rotoworld is okay, maybe not the be-all, end-all but decent enough..

Andrew6
10-09-2007, 02:57 PM
i dunno how reliable this website (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFL&leaguenum=&id=3152) is, but it says:

appreciate

White Runningback
10-09-2007, 03:50 PM
If the block is legit, you must acquit.

Dread-Head
10-09-2007, 03:55 PM
Miami fumbled and while Johnson and the rest of the Texans defense were scrambling for the ball Green tried to chop block him and GAVE HIMSELF a concussion. He brought it on himself. If I were Johnson I would have stood over him and laughed because his STUPID attempt to put a head to my knee had failed. Green gets taken out early in the season with a concussion...what year is it again? Deja-freakin' vu. You're a QB you don't take cheap shots. Suck it up and take your concussion like a man Green because it's your own doing.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 03:58 PM
Miami fumbled and while Johnson and the rest of the Texans defense were scrambling for the ball Green tried to chop block him and GAVE HIMSELF a concussion. He brought it on himself. If I were Johnson I would have stood over him and laughed because his STUPID attempt to put a head to my knee had failed. Green gets taken out early in the season with a concussion...what year is it again? Deja-freakin' vu. You're a QB you don't take cheap shots. Suck it up and take your concussion like a man Green because it's your own doing.

QFT (Except for the laughing part - I would have been too PO'd to laugh)

Dread-Head
10-09-2007, 04:18 PM
Regardless of the hit, you do not point at a guy hurt or not moving on the ground. Thats just low

If you're a QB or a lowly kicker, you don't take cheap shots...PERIOD. If you do and seriously #uck YOURSELF up in the process then you have no one to blame but yourself. If I land on my head because your helmet hit me in the knee and my knee helped you to give YOURSELF a concussion... "F" you buddy. You brought it on yourself. Not only would I taunt you, I would make it my mission the next time my team faced you to treat you as if you'd just burned my house to the ground, slapped my mother and slept with my wife....then I might get mad.

powerfuldragon
10-09-2007, 04:20 PM
i'm convinced that if trent green hadn't been concussed on that play, and continued to play in the game, our d-line would have ordered a yak yak fatwa on him.

Dread-Head
10-09-2007, 04:25 PM
i'm convinced that if trent green hadn't been concussed on that play, and continued to play in the game, our d-line would have ordered a yak yak fatwa on him.


Most def...Baby it would have SO...been Peanut Butter Jelly Time!:splits:

rmartin65
10-09-2007, 04:30 PM
[QUOTE=powerfuldragon;756134]personally, i'd yell at a guy who'd just nearly killed me.

[QUOTE]

It was a legal block. I hope that both players are okay, but I still think that taunting an injured player while he lays motionless on the ground after a legal hit is wrong.

Double Barrel
10-09-2007, 04:52 PM
It was 'legal' on that particular play, but the same block would have been illegal in other situations. The NFL needs to clarify the discrepancy in the off-season.

TJ is a professional and should have controlled his emotions. Period.

But Green's injury is 100% his own fault.

Hervoyel
10-09-2007, 05:06 PM
[quote=powerfuldragon;756134]personally, i'd yell at a guy who'd just nearly killed me.

[quote]

It was a legal block. I hope that both players are okay, but I still think that taunting an injured player while he lays motionless on the ground after a legal hit is wrong.

Yes it is wrong and if Travis Johnson had done that I'd join you in roundly condemning him. He didn't "taunt" Trent Green (nor did he "stand over him" as it appears in some of the slow-mo versions of the play).

TJ got up and gave the guy who hit him a piece of his mind (it's open for debate whether TJ could spare that piece or not) and when he saw that Green wasn't getting up and may have been seriously injured he headed for the Texans bench.

Don't fall for the spin on this one people.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 05:13 PM
[quote=rmartin65;756572][quote=powerfuldragon;756134]personally, i'd yell at a guy who'd just nearly killed me.



Yes it is wrong and if Travis Johnson had done that I'd join you in roundly condemning him. He didn't "taunt" Trent Green (nor did he "stand over him" as it appears in some of the slow-mo versions of the play).

TJ got up and gave the guy who hit him a piece of his mind (it's open for debate whether TJ could spare that piece or not) and when he saw that Green wasn't getting up and may have been seriously injured he headed for the Texans bench.

Don't fall for the spin on this one people.

I don't!! Not for one second.

Hervoyel
10-09-2007, 05:57 PM
People keep debating the legality of the block but I think it's finally coming to the top that the block itself was a legal thing.

A point everybody should consider is how many former coaches and players are starting to take up Travis Johnsons defense. Yes, when Green was down TJ was the big-bad classless buffoon who needed to be banned for life. He was the "worst person in the NFL" while everyone was worried about Trent Green (and rightfully so because that was a heck of a lick he took).

Once Green was obviously out of danger look how many people started talking about Johnson having a point.

No, not everyone agreed and what's interesting is that even some of the people who think Johnson was right to be mad have agreed that it's a legal block.

What this tells me is that the people who play in the NFL and know NFL football are not entirely in agreement about this kind of block. There is considerable sentiment it seems for making this an illegal block. I think that means something right there.

There are things you can do that are technically within the rules but that people who consider themselves "above board" do not do, or at least try to avoid doing. This is one of those things.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2007, 06:06 PM
True it is legal... But, 37 year old quarterbacks who ARE very sensitive about blows to the knees should know better. PERIOD.

The seriousness of the potential knee injury could have been every bit as devastating as a wide received coming into the middle of the field to chop block a linebacker. One is legal, one is illegal... BOTH are unethical and a veteran professional quarterback should know better.

Anyone who says that Green couldn't have hit 'em in the chest because he is too small just doesn't know football... A 180 pound kicker took take Travis Johnson out in that situation where Johnson wasn't looking...



YES, I am very sensitive to knee injuries and for good freakin' reason!!!

threetoedpete
10-10-2007, 03:28 AM
Exactly, I don't understand why the people calling Travis classless don't take that into consideration.

Because T.J. is the very large bipolar guy mocking the poor little QB .And alberts and everyone else is too stupid to see the play for what it was. The little QB guy cheap shoting the big African american guy. I do not believe TJ was mocking him. And I do not believe Spencer Tillman's ludicrus take either. Trent Green doesn't practice blocking a lot so there for it was an accident. My Take: Trent Green saw an excellent oportunity to yuck it up with the boyz monday morning during the film sesion. He K.O.'s T.J. and endears himslef to the team and he automatically becomes their team leader. And instead what he got was a one way buss ticket home. This was nothing but karma at work. I don't have a problem with T.J. losing it a bit and telling him in his on words what a jerk he was tring to end his career. And is always is the case with the officials, the second guy to react pays the price. He has paid the price for the post game interveiw. I'm sure walking in front of the media and belittling himself with a retraction to satisfy the owner and coach was punishment enough.

threetoedpete
10-10-2007, 03:51 AM
[QUOTE=powerfuldragon;756134]personally, i'd yell at a guy who'd just nearly killed me.

[QUOTE]

It was a legal block. I hope that both players are okay, but I still think that taunting an injured player while he lays motionless on the ground after a legal hit is wrong.

Well I've never been in a postion to be an NFL player. But how is this: A guy comes into your home burgler, car jacker ... what ever...takes out a five pound sledge hammer and caps one of your knees. You can no longer do what ever it is you have been trained to do to earn a living.
You have to give up your advocation, the only thing you know how to do. The nice means you had to provide for your family is now lost to you forever. Now, the next time you or one of your family gets bad hurt by some wacko, come back and tell me again you don't understand.

He wasn't taunting him. He was confronting him over a cheap shot. If the offcial mised the whole incident how can you be surprised. I mean Jerry Austin missed the Atlanta right gaurd pulling Okoye down , tackling him on a hold, right befor his eyes in the Atlanta game. And TJ didn't linger over the corps as being made out like Alberts and Risen. I mean the guy is by polar for christ sakes . I think he did prety good all things considered.

powerfuldragon
10-10-2007, 11:42 AM
wait.... hold up a second. wasn't it the cowardly lion who craved bravery? scarecrow just wanted a brain right?

well... trent green was brained by tj's knee.

rmartin65
10-10-2007, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE=rmartin65;756572][QUOTE=powerfuldragon;756134]personally, i'd yell at a guy who'd just nearly killed me.



Well I've never been in a postion to be an NFL player. But how is this: A guy comes into your home burgler, car jacker ... what ever...takes out a five pound sledge hammer and caps one of your knees. You can no longer do what ever it is you have been trained to do to earn a living.
You have to give up your advocation, the only thing you know how to do. The nice means you had to provide for your family is now lost to you forever. Now, the next time you or one of your family gets bad hurt by some wacko, come back and tell me again you don't understand.

He wasn't taunting him. He was confronting him over a cheap shot.

That scenario is completely off base. The players are out there, and there is always a possibility for injury. Someone previously stated this and I agree, that is why they get paid the big bucks.

But when I watch the replay over and over again, I now think that he was not really taunting Green. I still think that it was wrong to yell at a guy that is not moving, however.

Maddict5
10-10-2007, 02:03 PM
wait.... hold up a second. wasn't it the cowardly lion who craved bravery? scarecrow just wanted a brain right?

well... trent green was brained by tj's knee.

funnily the scarecrow (trent green) does need a brain now too as well as courage

Hookem Horns
10-10-2007, 02:06 PM
Our latest cover story http://www.texanstalk.com/content/view/40/7/

Thanks Chris!

Koolaid Time
10-10-2007, 10:12 PM
First story of the show..

Lively debate..... sounds like they have been reading this message board. Many of the same opinions and roughly the same divisions.