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austintexanite
01-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Mawae voices his opinion on the Messiah.

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33369

Second Honeymoon
01-08-2008, 12:48 PM
VY may not be as good as he thinks he is but he is a hell of a lot better than some of us Texans faithful give him credit for. Did anyone watch teh game? he has NOONE around him. A couple average RBs and absolutely NO TALENT at WR. When his tight ends are healthy it approaches NFL quality but still comes up short.

Thank God Bud is so cheap or we could have another powerhouse in our division. As long as they are in the bottom of the league in payroll, they will never be that relevant. Fisher willed them into the playoffs this year and I just don't see it happening next year barring a roster revamp.

VY needs to speak up about the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball or he will be doomed to failure in Tenn....which works out just fine for me as I am a Texan fan first and foremost.

austintexanite
01-08-2008, 12:51 PM
VY may not be as good as he thinks he is but he is a hell of a lot better than some of us Texans faithful give him credit for. Did anyone watch teh game? he has NOONE around him. A couple average RBs and absolutely NO TALENT at WR. When his tight ends are healthy it approaches NFL quality but still comes up short.

Thank God Bud is so cheap or we could have another powerhouse in our division. As long as they are in the bottom of the league in payroll, they will never be that relevant. Fisher willed them into the playoffs this year and I just don't see it happening next year barring a roster revamp.

VY needs to speak up about the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball or he will be doomed to failure in Tenn....which works out just fine for me as I am a Texan fan first and foremost.

I have stated that I rooted for him in college but not in the NFL. I agree they need speed at the receiver position and he needs to get more accurate. Your second and third paragraphs are right on the button.

Double Barrel
01-08-2008, 01:14 PM
VY may not be as good as he thinks he is but he is a hell of a lot better than some of us Texans faithful give him credit for. Did anyone watch teh game? he has NOONE around him. A couple average RBs and absolutely NO TALENT at WR.

Kerry Collins did not seem to have a problem completing passes to those same WRs.

Dude has a great running game and fantastic defense. Teams have won with lesser talent at QB *cough*RexGrossman/Bears*cough*

ATX
01-08-2008, 01:21 PM
Maybe the Titans should have considered the great talent around VY at UT before they drafted him.

Second Honeymoon
01-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Kerry Collins did not seem to have a problem completing passes to those same WRs.

Dude has a great running game and fantastic defense. Teams have won with lesser talent at QB *cough*RexGrossman/Bears*cough*

nowhere near the same WRs that VY had to throw to in San Diego.

as for the 'great running game'. you mean the running game that fumbled at least two times in scoring position. i will say their defensive is fantastic and Fisher is just an incredible coach and motivator, but their offensive talent (besides OL which is decent when healthy but was in shambles on Sunday with 2 starters out on the OLine) is pretty horrible.

Thank god, I am not a Titans fan because its practially unwatchable, and its not VYs fault its that way. Its just a lack of talent at the skill positions. No gamebreakers at all. And something is up with VY, he doesnt seem to have the gamebreaking speed and elusiveness. Some would say injury but I dont think he dedicated himself in the offseason enough. he seems a little pudgy to be frank and a shadow of the athleticism he showed last year.

ATRAIN
01-08-2008, 01:54 PM
nowhere near the same WRs that VY had to throw to in San Diego.

as for the 'great running game'. you mean the running game that fumbled at least two times in scoring position. i will say their defensive is fantastic and Fisher is just an incredible coach and motivator, but their offensive talent (besides OL which is decent when healthy but was in shambles on Sunday with 2 starters out on the OLine) is pretty horrible.

Thank god, I am not a Titans fan because its practially unwatchable, and its not VYs fault its that way. Its just a lack of talent at the skill positions. No gamebreakers at all. And something is up with VY, he doesnt seem to have the gamebreaking speed and elusiveness. Some would say injury but I dont think he dedicated himself in the offseason enough. he seems a little pudgy to be frank and a shadow of the athleticism he showed last year.


Bottom line VY sucks, Collins did good with the talent around him and VY couldn't. He is a bust and the sooner people start to realize that the better off we will be. FREE AUSTIN FROM THE VY BALL LICKING!!!

Double Barrel
01-08-2008, 02:45 PM
nowhere near the same WRs that VY had to throw to in San Diego.

as for the 'great running game'. you mean the running game that fumbled at least two times in scoring position. i will say their defensive is fantastic and Fisher is just an incredible coach and motivator, but their offensive talent (besides OL which is decent when healthy but was in shambles on Sunday with 2 starters out on the OLine) is pretty horrible.

So, basically you are saying that Vince Young does not elevate the talent around him and needs a better team to make him better.

But, that's not what the hype says... :whistle:

See, I have been told on numerous occassions that VY is a playmaker, a game breaker, a one man enigma of winning fury.

You are making it sound like he is a mere mortal. I can live with that, but it just doesn't add up to the massively overwhelming BS that has been spewed about the guy for two seasons now.

ATRAIN
01-08-2008, 02:49 PM
So, basically you are saying that Vince Young does not elevate the talent around him and needs a better team to make him better.

But, that's not what the hype says... :whistle:

See, I have been told on numerous occassions that VY is a playmaker, a game breaker, a one man enigma of winning fury.

You are making it sound like he is a mere mortal. I can live with that, but it just doesn't add up to the massively overwhelming BS that has been spewed about the guy for two seasons now.


This is my personal fav "He just knows how to win" hahahahah yeah he proved that this past weekend didn't he!!


Save Austin From the VY Knob Slobbers!!

kastofsna
01-08-2008, 02:51 PM
but their offensive talent (besides OL which is decent when healthy but was in shambles on Sunday with 2 starters out on the OLine) is pretty horrible.
especially their quarterback, he's the worst player out of them all.

Second Honeymoon
01-08-2008, 03:51 PM
especially their quarterback, he's the worst player out of them all.

yup and coming from any Dolphins fan that is pretty damning. If anyone knows about bad quarterback play lately its a fan of the Dolphins. That team has been re-writing the book on bad QB play for over a decade and its showing no sign of stopping in the near future.

Texan_Bill
01-08-2008, 03:56 PM
So, basically you are saying that Vince Young does not elevate the talent around him and needs a better team to make him better.

But, that's not what the hype says... :whistle:

See, I have been told on numerous occassions that VY is a playmaker, a game breaker, a one man enigma of winning fury.

You are making it sound like he is a mere mortal. I can live with that, but it just doesn't add up to the massively overwhelming BS that has been spewed about the guy for two seasons now.


Rep.... Too funny!!! and this coming from someone who has personally felt the wrath since I was a non-beleiver. :shades:

Texan_Bill
01-08-2008, 04:00 PM
yup and coming from any Dolphins fan that is pretty damning. If anyone knows about bad quarterback play lately its a fan of the Dolphins. That team has been re-writing the book on bad QB play for over a decade and its showing no sign of stopping in the near future.

Technically not a decade, but it has been 10 QB's since Marino retired in 1999:

Feidler
Feeley
Frerotte
Harrington
Green
Lemon

(mix in some spot appearances from Culpepper, Rosenfels, Ray Lucas, Brian Greise).

Considering that Marino retired in 1999, thats a lot of instability at the QB position.

adam
01-08-2008, 04:08 PM
VY may not be as good as he thinks he is but he is a hell of a lot better than some of us Texans faithful give him credit for. Did anyone watch teh game? he has NOONE around him. A couple average RBs and absolutely NO TALENT at WR. When his tight ends are healthy it approaches NFL quality but still comes up short.

Is this why he managed to throw 17 INTs this season? People need to stop making excuses for Young. The not so talented players around him do not make the poor decisions with the football, it's that simple. Vince Young does have a good deal of physical talent. That said, he does not throw the ball accurately on a consistent basis. He is also prone to extreme mental errors. You can not blame this on the talent around him. He needs to develop faster than he is. Otherwise, he is well on his way to the Hall of Shame.

Second Honeymoon
01-08-2008, 04:22 PM
Is this why he managed to throw 17 INTs this season? People need to stop making excuses for Young. The not so talented players around him do not make the poor decisions with the football, it's that simple. Vince Young does have a good deal of physical talent. That said, he does not throw the ball accurately on a consistent basis. He is also prone to extreme mental errors. You can not blame this on the talent around him. He needs to develop faster than he is. Otherwise, he is well on his way to the Hall of Shame.

I wonder why so many of us were bending over backwards to give Carr more time to 'develop' and blaming the lack of talent around him, but when someone tries to give VY half the leeway, the same rules dont apply. I wonder why there is a difference. VY has been in the league 2 freaking years and helped his team to the playoffs in just his 2nd year. before VY 3-13. after VY 8-8 then playoffs the following year. Why the unmitigated hatred and bias? Why is he judged with different standards?

If VY had been drafted by teh Texans and we had just made the playoffs in his 2nd year, something tells me that opinions would differ greatly. beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

dtran04
01-08-2008, 04:29 PM
Well one thing is sure. I think people in Houston love VY way more than people in Tennessee. Houston people really love this whole "hometown" mantra. I swear people are still pissed the Rockets passed on Rashard Lewis.

kastofsna
01-08-2008, 05:32 PM
yup and coming from any Dolphins fan
you're pathetic.

brakos82
01-08-2008, 05:34 PM
you're pathetic.
heh.

Second Honeymoon
01-08-2008, 05:58 PM
you're pathetic.

...

brakos82
01-08-2008, 06:01 PM
...
My response was better. :tease:

Spled
01-08-2008, 06:33 PM
Vince is good enough as a hybrid run/pass player and as a gutty competitor, that he will find a way to win close games if surrounded by the right talent. I can see a lot of 10-6, 9-7 seasons in his future. The problem is that when he gets to the playoffs, his mediocre passing arm will always be exposed by the better defenses. That's why I'd rather have Schaub/Rosefeld playing for the Texans.

adam
01-08-2008, 06:55 PM
I wonder why so many of us were bending over backwards to give Carr more time to 'develop' and blaming the lack of talent around him, but when someone tries to give VY half the leeway, the same rules dont apply. I wonder why there is a difference. VY has been in the league 2 freaking years and helped his team to the playoffs in just his 2nd year. before VY 3-13. after VY 8-8 then playoffs the following year. Why the unmitigated hatred and bias? Why is he judged with different standards?

If VY had been drafted by teh Texans and we had just made the playoffs in his 2nd year, something tells me that opinions would differ greatly. beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Your argument doesn't apply to me. I thought Carr sucked after his third season. To be honest, I don't think that Young was necessarily better than Carr when Carr was playing for us. Vince was more mobile, but both threw more INTs than TDs, both made poor decisions, etc. Carr had a better completion percentage though. In my honest opinion they are both garbage (certainly Carr more than Young these days). Young plays for a great defensive football team, they win despite of him. If he played for Houston, it is possible that we would have went 0-16 or 1-15 this season.

BigBull17
01-08-2008, 07:10 PM
I wonder why so many of us were bending over backwards to give Carr more time to 'develop' and blaming the lack of talent around him, but when someone tries to give VY half the leeway, the same rules dont apply. I wonder why there is a difference. VY has been in the league 2 freaking years and helped his team to the playoffs in just his 2nd year. before VY 3-13. after VY 8-8 then playoffs the following year. Why the unmitigated hatred and bias? Why is he judged with different standards?

If VY had been drafted by teh Texans and we had just made the playoffs in his 2nd year, something tells me that opinions would differ greatly. beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

They made the play offs despite VY, not because of VY. Its just a simple fact that right now, VY would be 3rd on our depth chart. 3rd. Its funny you mention Carr in your post, becasue for now, VY reminds me alot of Carr. Sub standard. He makes awful throws, he runs when he should just slide, he slides when he should go, and he takes bad sacks or puts it up for grabs when under pressure. He is around 39 or so in top 40 QBs in the NFL.

kastofsna
01-08-2008, 07:26 PM
They made the play offs despite VY, not because of VY. Its just a simple fact that right now, VY would be 3rd on our depth chart. 3rd. Its funny you mention Carr in your post, becasue for now, VY reminds me alot of Carr. Sub standard. He makes awful throws, he runs when he should just slide, he slides when he should go, and he takes bad sacks or puts it up for grabs when under pressure. He is around 39 or so in top 40 QBs in the NFL.
fun trivia: of the 12 most sacked QB's in the NFL, Young is one of them and has the lowest passer rating of those 12!

Overalls
01-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Carr was sacked fewer times in his 2nd year than Young was this season.


:fans:

Double Barrel
01-09-2008, 11:09 AM
I wonder why so many of us were bending over backwards to give Carr more time to 'develop' and blaming the lack of talent around him, but when someone tries to give VY half the leeway, the same rules dont apply. I wonder why there is a difference.

David Carr NEVER had the hype around him that Vince Young does. I have been told on more than one occasion that VY is so awesome that the NFL rulebook would have to be changed to balance out the pro game with his immortal talent in the league. DC had none of that kind of hype and hyperbole around him, and he was on an expansion team to boot.

Besides, you are generalizing Texans fans. There have been many fans that wanted Carr gone when they got rid of Capers. Others that rooted for him because he was a Texan, even against their own better judgement. It takes all kinds, and there was certainly never a shared opinion among a large majority of Houston fans.

And besides, after five seasons of watching bad QB play, wouldn't Texans fans be experts on the subject? Many see VY and recognize the symptoms.

Why the unmitigated hatred and bias? Why is he judged with different standards?

1. Overwhelming hype
2. He's a Tennesee Titan
3. He's on the Madden cover after his rookie season (expectations were high!)
4. Pro Bowl in his rookie year
5. OROY 2006
6. Did I mention he's a Tennessee Titan?

See, the thing is that after all of the above, VY was supposed to hit the 2007 season running on all cylinders. We were told that he did not have a learning curve, but rather the league had a learning curve to figure out how to defend Vince Young. Super Bowl victories were all but guaranteed for the next decade, simply because his greatness could carry even a mediocre team.

Turns out, even with a great defense and running game, he never lived up to the hype. He went through a sophomore slump and has struggled. This is NOTHING like the Vince Young of myth and legend, which has turned gold expectations into goatmeal mush.

Using lame excuses that he needed more talent (yet they still made the freakin' playoffs) and he's been injured are not worthy of His Greatness. These reasons....errrr...excuses don't work for other players or teams, so why would he get the benefit of the doubt?

fun trivia: of the 12 most sacked QB's in the NFL, Young is one of them and has the lowest passer rating of those 12!

EEFBV <---Everyone Else's Fault But Vince's

Specnatz
01-09-2008, 12:14 PM
I wonder why so many of us were bending over backwards to give Carr more time to 'develop' and blaming the lack of talent around him, but when someone tries to give VY half the leeway, the same rules dont apply. I wonder why there is a difference. VY has been in the league 2 freaking years and helped his team to the playoffs in just his 2nd year. before VY 3-13. after VY 8-8 then playoffs the following year. Why the unmitigated hatred and bias? Why is he judged with different standards?

If VY had been drafted by teh Texans and we had just made the playoffs in his 2nd year, something tells me that opinions would differ greatly. beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I know I should just probably keep my mouth shut here but what the hell I am not one who shys away from making my point even if it means getting flamed.

Not sure why a VY thread has to turn into a YKW debate but weren't you the same guy who earlier in the seasonwas trashing Mario and Kubiak almost to the point , scratch that it was to the point and very loudly I might add, of wanting Kubiak fired and Cowher hired at no matter the cost. So Kubiak does not even get two full season to fix the mess but an ex-Longhorn should and deserves time to develop.

Yes why is vy treated with different standards than you give your so called own damn team. Please explain to me how vy helped his team to the playoff versus hampered them from having a better seeding?

Of course opinions would be different if vy was a Texan that is what fans do, of course it does not help that he plays for satin in a hair piece. A lot of the fans who trash him would not and a lot of people who give him the benefit of the doubt and say give him time to develop will not even do that regarding a certain defensive lineman, so you tell me why that is?

You did get it right we are all entitled to our different opinions, and as much crap as I have given titans fans about vy's play last year, this year he has not improved one bit.

Mr teX
01-09-2008, 01:26 PM
David Carr NEVER had the hype around him that Vince Young does. I have been told on more than one occasion that VY is so awesome that the NFL rulebook would have to be changed to balance out the pro game with his immortal talent in the league. DC had none of that kind of hype and hyperbole around him, and he was on an expansion team to boot.

Besides, you are generalizing Texans fans. There have been many fans that wanted Carr gone when they got rid of Capers. Others that rooted for him because he was a Texan, even against their own better judgement. It takes all kinds, and there was certainly never a shared opinion among a large majority of Houston fans.

And besides, after five seasons of watching bad QB play, wouldn't Texans fans be experts on the subject? Many see VY and recognize the symptoms.



1. Overwhelming hype
2. He's a Tennesee Titan
3. He's on the Madden cover after his rookie season (expectations were high!)
4. Pro Bowl in his rookie year
5. OROY 2006
6. Did I mention he's a Tennessee Titan?

See, the thing is that after all of the above, VY was supposed to hit the 2007 season running on all cylinders. We were told that he did not have a learning curve, but rather the league had a learning curve to figure out how to defend Vince Young. Super Bowl victories were all but guaranteed for the next decade, simply because his greatness could carry even a mediocre team.

Turns out, even with a great defense and running game, he never lived up to the hype. He went through a sophomore slump and has struggled. This is NOTHING like the Vince Young of myth and legend, which has turned gold expectations into goatmeal mush.

Using lame excuses that he needed more talent (yet they still made the freakin' playoffs) and he's been injured are not worthy of His Greatness. These reasons....errrr...excuses don't work for other players or teams, so why would he get the benefit of the doubt?



EEFBV <---Everyone Else's Fault But Vince's

Damn this post hurt lots of feelings, Good $%#@ DB, fair, objective....... I like it.

Spled
01-09-2008, 06:14 PM
At least no one's writing stupid articles like this anymore - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2693417

WesmanTexanfan
01-09-2008, 06:25 PM
he should move to wide out, they would have beat san diego with kerry collins takin the snaps....... im 99% sure......


or trade him since so many people think hes such a great qb

Blazing Arrow
01-09-2008, 10:18 PM
The only reason Young got Madden Cover was due to the SD fans crying like LT in a bad game over him getting the cover. Must be something in the air is SD.

ATX
01-09-2008, 10:20 PM
The only reason Young got Madden Cover was due to the SD fans crying like LT in a bad game over him getting the cover. Must be something in the air is SD.

the smell of defeat :splits: Go chargers, they were the better team.

Blazing Arrow
01-09-2008, 10:40 PM
the smell of defeat :splits: Go chargers, they were the better team.

At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ... :texflag:

ATRAIN
01-10-2008, 07:42 AM
David Carr NEVER had the hype around him that Vince Young does. I have been told on more than one occasion that VY is so awesome that the NFL rulebook would have to be changed to balance out the pro game with his immortal talent in the league. DC had none of that kind of hype and hyperbole around him, and he was on an expansion team to boot.

Besides, you are generalizing Texans fans. There have been many fans that wanted Carr gone when they got rid of Capers. Others that rooted for him because he was a Texan, even against their own better judgement. It takes all kinds, and there was certainly never a shared opinion among a large majority of Houston fans.

And besides, after five seasons of watching bad QB play, wouldn't Texans fans be experts on the subject? Many see VY and recognize the symptoms.



1. Overwhelming hype
2. He's a Tennesee Titan
3. He's on the Madden cover after his rookie season (expectations were high!)
4. Pro Bowl in his rookie year
5. OROY 2006
6. Did I mention he's a Tennessee Titan?

See, the thing is that after all of the above, VY was supposed to hit the 2007 season running on all cylinders. We were told that he did not have a learning curve, but rather the league had a learning curve to figure out how to defend Vince Young. Super Bowl victories were all but guaranteed for the next decade, simply because his greatness could carry even a mediocre team.

Turns out, even with a great defense and running game, he never lived up to the hype. He went through a sophomore slump and has struggled. This is NOTHING like the Vince Young of myth and legend, which has turned gold expectations into goatmeal mush.

Using lame excuses that he needed more talent (yet they still made the freakin' playoffs) and he's been injured are not worthy of His Greatness. These reasons....errrr...excuses don't work for other players or teams, so why would he get the benefit of the doubt?



EEFBV <---Everyone Else's Fault But Vince's


OK I still don't think number 4 counts. I mean come on he only made the pro bowl because 1. Brady Withdrew, 2. Rivers got hurt and couldn't play. Being a 3rd choice to be a 3rd stringer does not count in my mind.

Mr teX
01-10-2008, 09:02 AM
At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ... :texflag:

may as well have; you only got to go b/c Indy felt sorry for you guys standing outside with us so she fixed you guys up with her ugly cousin, SD. But when you came to the door to pick her up, she decided she'd rather go stag instead & kicked you to the curb, in your powder blue penguin tuxedo.

ATRAIN
01-10-2008, 09:12 AM
may as well have; you only got to go b/c Indy felt sorry for you guys standing outside with us so she fixed you guys up with her ugly cousin, SD. But when you came to the door to pick her up, she decided she'd rather go stag instead & kicked you to the curb, in your powder blue penguin tuxedo.



That reminds me of the date scene in better off dead where Cusack picks up that ugly girl and she totals up the date costs and he says do you take a check hahahahaha. Tits fans actually think they got there and earned it.

Mr teX
01-10-2008, 09:20 AM
That reminds me of the date scene in better off dead where Cusack picks up that ugly girl and she totals up the date costs and he says do you take a check hahahahaha. Tits fans actually think they got there and earned it.

yeah they were there, but they followed their date around all night & she took her prom pictures with another guy.

ATRAIN
01-10-2008, 09:23 AM
yeah they were there, but they followed their date around all night & she took her prom pictures with another guy.



hahahaha, they spent the night by the punch table. At least we knew we were not going to the dance and went to a bar with easy women.

Texans_Chick
01-10-2008, 09:24 AM
At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ... :texflag:

http://www.cookiemadness.net/oreo%20chunk%20cookie%20for%20blog.jpg

And along with your cookie for making the playoffs and losing, here's some news you might find disconcerting, unless you think it is great that the Titan MB is getting more famous on the interwebs:

"Mawae: Young Still Needs to Learn the Titans Offense" (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/10/mawae-young-still-needs-to-learn-the-titans-offense/)

And he quoted extensively from your MB in case your adminstrators don't want people to read this and decide to delete it from your MB because they delete legit football posts over there sometimes.

ATRAIN
01-10-2008, 10:25 AM
http://www.cookiemadness.net/oreo%20chunk%20cookie%20for%20blog.jpg

And along with your cookie for making the playoffs and losing, here's some news you might find disconcerting, unless you think it is great that the Titan MB is getting more famous on the interwebs:

"Mawae: Young Still Needs to Learn the Titans Offense" (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/10/mawae-young-still-needs-to-learn-the-titans-offense/)

And he quoted extensively from your MB in case your adminstrators don't want people to read this and decide to delete it from your MB because they delete legit football posts over there sometimes.



hahahah thats awesome!!

Specnatz
01-10-2008, 10:36 AM
At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ... :texflag:

Yes you went to the prom, congratz. To bad you went stag and no one would dance with you. Now you will be scared for life of having gone and experienced how no one likes you and thinks your ugly.

Texan_Bill
01-10-2008, 12:13 PM
At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ... :texflag:

I'd would rather not go to the prom if it's with my sister............. But then again, that's the norm for Tinnbred fan...

Blazing Arrow
01-10-2008, 06:45 PM
may as well have; you only got to go b/c Indy felt sorry for you guys standing outside with us so she fixed you guys up with her ugly cousin, SD. But when you came to the door to pick her up, she decided she'd rather go stag instead & kicked you to the curb, in your powder blue penguin tuxedo.

No the reason we went is because the Browns could not beat the bungles. Wins are wins. You say the Colts handed us a win (though we have outscored then in the last 4 games and are 2-2 :elle: ). If the Browns "deserved it" so bad they would have beaten the Bungles and taken the spot not bet on another team to win.

Blazing Arrow
01-10-2008, 06:56 PM
http://www.cookiemadness.net/oreo%20chunk%20cookie%20for%20blog.jpg

And along with your cookie for making the playoffs and losing, here's some news you might find disconcerting, unless you think it is great that the Titan MB is getting more famous on the interwebs:

"Mawae: Young Still Needs to Learn the Titans Offense" (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/10/mawae-young-still-needs-to-learn-the-titans-offense/)

And he quoted extensively from your MB in case your adminstrators don't want people to read this and decide to delete it from your MB because they delete legit football posts over there sometimes.

Keep your cookie and if you took the time to read my post you would know I do not post at the TOMB. I do not even visit the site or have a login.

Informed ... time to look up the word.

Only Texans fans would think not making the playoffs is some how better then making the playoffs. Losing attitude generates losing franchises.

Tell me again how your 8-8 Texans who got swept by the Titans were even in the same class of team? :thinking:

Blazing Arrow
01-10-2008, 06:58 PM
Yes you went to the prom, congratz. To bad you went stag and no one would dance with you. Now you will be scared for life of having gone and experienced how no one likes you and thinks your ugly.

I think the 8 teams that turned down the Texans did enough to sting the confidence in your ugly team. Next season Shammy plays what 7 games and before crying about his boo-boos?

kastofsna
01-10-2008, 07:27 PM
i wonder if Vince Young's golf swing is all funky, too.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 08:40 AM
I think the 8 teams that turned down the Texans did enough to sting the confidence in your ugly team. Next season Shammy plays what 7 games and before crying about his boo-boos?

Talk about titty babies; "my thigh hurts..... I've got sand in my cl**".......

Even if it were only 7 games, we would still have more production than what your QB gives your tinnbreds...

eriadoc
01-11-2008, 08:59 AM
I reiterate -

If VY's TD/turnover ratio had been reversed, would not the Titans have been better off?

He did more to harm his football team than to help it. Go trade QB stories with the Super Bowl Bears.

I won't deny that the Titans have a good team. Jeff Fisher, Norm Chow, the defense, the running game ..... all of these are reasons why. VY is not a reason why yet. It may come.

Mr teX
01-11-2008, 09:06 AM
No the reason we went is because the Browns could not beat the bungles. Wins are wins. You say the Colts handed us a win (though we have outscored then in the last 4 games and are 2-2 :elle: ). If the Browns "deserved it" so bad they would have beaten the Bungles and taken the spot not bet on another team to win.

Yeah, you're right wins are wins, you take them anyway you can get them but
lets not pretend that the titans' last win against them was a foregone conclusion just b/c you guys have played the colts close the last couple of games. The fact remains that prior to the freebie game, the titans were still under .500 against them & likely would've been 1-3 had manning & co. played the whole game, especially the way you guys were playing down the stretch.

You said that you post more here than over @ the TOMB, probably b/c you like to delve in reality more, & the reality of it is that even though you guys made the playoffs this year, the titans were never really a contender.

HOU-TEX
01-11-2008, 09:40 AM
No the reason we went is because the Browns could not beat the bungles. Wins are wins. You say the Colts handed us a win (though we have outscored then in the last 4 games and are 2-2 :elle: ). If the Browns "deserved it" so bad they would have beaten the Bungles and taken the spot not bet on another team to win.

Either way, the Browns would've at least made it an entertaining game. Heck, they might have even won it.

It was the ugliest game of the weekend, that's for sure. Oh well, at least we will be spared the sight of watching 'the quad' run around in circles. :shades:

TexansLucky13
01-11-2008, 09:44 AM
We all knew Vince would fold in the playoffs. I for one was happy to see it happen.

With or without VY, I will always hate the Titans (the team that is NOT the Oilers). I hope you enjoyed your playoff shot Blazing Arrow, you won't see it again for another five years.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 10:57 AM
We all knew Vince would fold in the playoffs. I for one was happy to see it happen.

With or without VY, I will always hate the Titans (the team that is NOT the Oilers). I hope you enjoyed your playoff shot Blazing Arrow, you won't see it again for another five years.

Vince didn't fold in the playoffs. If you want to blame someone on the Titans for losing, try blaming their running backs who fumbled two times in the red zone....or maybe just blame the fact that the Chargers were a better team...blaming VY is simply outing yourself as a hater. hater.

VY didn't play great but does that mean he lost the game or 'folded'. Give me a break, if VY played for the Texans half you guys would have your heads so far up his arse you couldn't even see straight.

VY in his first two years has produced mixed results. he has had a part in turning a 3-13 team to an 8-8 team then a playoff team in his first two years. What the hell does the guy have to do to not be the subject of such ignorant jealousy and blind hatred? and to the people that show his INT numbers, well that is what happens with young QBs.

And lastly, did you see the talent that is around him at the skill positions? give me a break. did you even watch the game or did you just open the paper adn read the stats right before you had to start your shift at Wendy's?

I am glad VY and the Titans lost, but to blame VY or to say he folded or to say that he sucks is just immature, ridiculous, and par for the course with most of the inbred yayhoos around this town.

infantrycak
01-11-2008, 11:02 AM
What the hell does the guy have to do to not be the subject of such ignorant jealousy and blind hatred?

Play well.

TheRealJoker
01-11-2008, 11:05 AM
Vince didn't fold in the playoffs. If you want to blame someone on the Titans for losing, try blaming their running backs who fumbled two times in the red zone....or maybe just blame the fact that the Chargers were a better team...blaming VY is simply outing yourself as a hater. hater.

VY didn't play great but does that mean he lost the game or 'folded'. Give me a break, if VY played for the Texans half you guys would have your heads so far up his arse you couldn't even see straight.

VY in his first two years has produced mixed results. he has had a part in turning a 3-13 team to an 8-8 team then a playoff team in his first two years. What the hell does the guy have to do to not be the subject of such ignorant jealousy and blind hatred? and to the people that show his INT numbers, well that is what happens with young QBs.

And lastly, did you see the talent that is around him at the skill positions? give me a break. did you even watch the game or did you just open the paper adn read the stats right before you had to start your shift at Wendy's?

I am glad VY and the Titans lost, but to blame VY or to say he folded or to say that he sucks is just immature, ridiculous, and par for the course with most of the inbred yayhoos around this town.

The funny thing is that people could replace Mario's name with Vince and wonder why you accuse him of loafing or playing only when his ego suits him...

Mario makes all pro but he only plays when his ego suits him...VY throws single digit tds and double digit ints but the laundry list of excuses comes out for him.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 11:15 AM
The funny thing is that people could replace Mario's name with Vince and wonder why you accuse him of loafing or playing only when his ego suits him...

Mario makes all pro but he only plays when his ego suits him...VY throws single digit tds and double digit ints but the laundry list of excuses comes out for him.

I stated that Mario's level of effort was inconsistent early in the season to back up my argument that Mario didn't deserve Player of the Year. Not to back up an argument that Mario sucks. big difference. I said Mario was too inconsistent with his effort and production to be considered POY not that Mario sucks.

I have supported Mario but that doesnt mean I have to say that he deserves to be DPOY.....because he doesnt.

Like I said, I understand why all the local yayhoos hate on Vince, but that doesnt mean that VY sucks. This isnt about Mario v Vince. This is about ignorance v. reality.

I guess being objective about things is frowned upon. let's just make it all bias, hyperbole, and ignorance.

ATX
01-11-2008, 11:15 AM
And lastly, did you see the talent that is around him at the skill positions? give me a break. did you even watch the game or did you just open the paper adn read the stats right before you had to start your shift at Wendy's?


I watched the game and the talent at the skill positions wasn't much worse than what Brady and McNabb had to work with at times. New England went into San Diego last year and beat the Chargers with guys like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney and San Diego was a better team last year.

eriadoc
01-11-2008, 11:18 AM
Vince didn't fold in the playoffs. If you want to blame someone on the Titans for losing, try blaming their running backs who fumbled two times in the red zone....or maybe just blame the fact that the Chargers were a better team...blaming VY is simply outing yourself as a hater. hater.

VY didn't play great but does that mean he lost the game or 'folded'. Give me a break, if VY played for the Texans half you guys would have your heads so far up his arse you couldn't even see straight.

VY in his first two years has produced mixed results. he has had a part in turning a 3-13 team to an 8-8 team then a playoff team in his first two years. What the hell does the guy have to do to not be the subject of such ignorant jealousy and blind hatred? and to the people that show his INT numbers, well that is what happens with young QBs.

And lastly, did you see the talent that is around him at the skill positions? give me a break. did you even watch the game or did you just open the paper adn read the stats right before you had to start your shift at Wendy's?

I am glad VY and the Titans lost, but to blame VY or to say he folded or to say that he sucks is just immature, ridiculous, and par for the course with most of the inbred yayhoos around this town.

And that is why young QBs are mostly a (necessary) hindrance to a football team, rather than a key part to its success. VY may very well get there, but you can't convince me that he was one of the top reasons for that team's success this year. To me, the most annoying part of the VY situation is all the people who say that VY took the Tacks to the playoffs, when anyone with half a brain knows that VY "took" his team to the playoffs about as much as Rex Grossman took his team to the Super Bowl. Less, actually, when you consider that Rex at least had games where he blew the doors off his opponent.

It's not an anti-VY thing for me, as much as it is an anti-VY-hype thing. Stop talking about VY and start talking about what a great coach Fisher is, or what a great job the running game did all year, or what a great impact Haynesworth or Bulluck had, etc. That holds water. Hell, Cutler had a much better year than VY and was still a major part of the Broncos' problems this year.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 11:20 AM
Just remember, if SH doesn't agree with you or the post(s), it will always be:

simply outing yourself as a hater.
-or-
have your heads so far up his arse you couldn't even see straight.

-or-
right before you had to start your shift at Wendy's?

-or-
just immature, ridiculous, and par for the course with most of the inbred yayhoos around this town.
-or-
(not used in his last post, but) blind homerism

Yet, he continues to beleive that 'his highness' was solely responsible for taking the Tinnbreds from 3-13 to 8-8 in his first season and to the play-offs this year. Forget defense. Forget the running game. Forget special teams (Bironas).

(talk about 'blind'.........)

Also continues to throw out the 'skilled players' rhetoric, when Kerry Collins did just fine with those same players. Another thing, the last time I checked, running backs were skilled positions...
:hmmm:

**********************************************

PS... This just in, 'his highness' ain't 'all that'!!!!!!!

TheRealJoker
01-11-2008, 11:27 AM
Just remember, if SH doesn't agree with you or the post(s), it will always be:


-or-

-or-

-or-

-or-
(not used in his last post, but)

Yet, he continues to beleive that 'his highness' was solely responsible for taking the Tinnbreds from 3-13 to 8-8 in his first season and to the play-offs this year. Forget defense. Forget the running game. Forget special teams (Bironas).

(talk about 'blind'.........)

Also continues to throw out the 'skilled players' rhetoric, when Kerry Collins did just fine with those same players. Another thing, the last time I checked, running backs were skilled positions...
:hmmm:

**********************************************

PS... This just in, 'his highness' ain't 'all that'!!!!!!!


Sounds like this SH guy is a good example of the pot/kettle comparison.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 11:28 AM
I watched the game and the talent at the skill positions wasn't much worse than what Brady and McNabb had to work with at times. New England went into San Diego last year and beat the Chargers with guys like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney and San Diego was a better team last year.

so now its not that VY sucks, its that he isnt as good as McNabb or Brady? 2nd year guy who was supposed to take time to develop now sucks unless he is as capable as seasoned vets like McNabb or Brady?

toronto
01-11-2008, 11:29 AM
I watched the game and the talent at the skill positions wasn't much worse than what Brady and McNabb had to work with at times. New England went into San Diego last year and beat the Chargers with guys like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney and San Diego was a better team last year.

As a Titan fan, lemme say that Caldwell and Gaffney would have been upgrades on Gage/Moulds.

I'd also take Ben Watson or LJ Smith over the scabs the Titans played at TE.

On the bright side. at least I know where they will be spending their cap space and draft picks. Unless Reinfeldt is a completely blind *****.

eriadoc
01-11-2008, 11:30 AM
so now its not that VY sucks, its that he isnt as good as McNabb or Brady? 2nd year guy who was supposed to take time to develop now sucks unless he is as capable as seasoned vets like McNabb or Brady?

He should start with aspiring to looking like Kerry Collins in his scant time, then work his way up to something like Hasselbeck, then go on to Brady status. I think most of us are just tired of the implication that he's already Brady-like, is all.

I'm more moderate than some on here, probably because I actually like Vince, but objectively, VY is just not a good QB yet. He'll get there, or he won't. Whatever.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 11:32 AM
And that is why young QBs are mostly a (necessary) hindrance to a football team, rather than a key part to its success. VY may very well get there, but you can't convince me that he was one of the top reasons for that team's success this year. To me, the most annoying part of the VY situation is all the people who say that VY took the Tacks to the playoffs, when anyone with half a brain knows that VY "took" his team to the playoffs about as much as Rex Grossman took his team to the Super Bowl. Less, actually, when you consider that Rex at least had games where he blew the doors off his opponent.

It's not an anti-VY thing for me, as much as it is an anti-VY-hype thing. Stop talking about VY and start talking about what a great coach Fisher is, or what a great job the running game did all year, or what a great impact Haynesworth or Bulluck had, etc. That holds water. Hell, Cutler had a much better year than VY and was still a major part of the Broncos' problems this year.

i always give credit to Fisher and defense. Even the running game was solid too but the running game fumbled twice in the red zone when the Titans were in control of the game. So does the running game suck now? I also never said that VY was the reason they made the playoffs. He wasn't. He helped lead his team into the playoffs. as for the Rex argument, that is like everyone's Get Out Of Hater Jail free card when people are saying VY sucks. it doesn't work.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 11:33 AM
BTW SH.... My last post was somewhat 'tongue in cheek'..... Not completely, but somewhat.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 11:46 AM
BTW SH.... My last post was somewhat 'tongue in cheek'..... Not completely, but somewhat.

TB. you and everyone else around here is always cool in my book (even TL13 and that damn Aggies Win sig). I just wish our fanbase was a little more objective and less homer/hater. I knows its the nature of the beast, but so many of us know so much about football around here yet it just drives me crazy when I hear the same people make blanket VY sucks statements when the guy has exceeded the expectations of the team that drafted him as well as the majority of the opinions around the league. he was SUPPOSED to take time to develop.......yet people around here are judging him against All-Time greats like Brady or acting like he is already supposed to be a top-tier QB.

Although I felt we should have passed on resigning Carr and drafted Young, I am actually glad that we didn't draft Young. half the fans would already be calling for him to be benched....the same fans that were still making excuses for DC after 5 years of failure. i guess some people are just judged differently. hmmm....

Lets not forget the Chargers were SUPPOSED to beat the Titans...but no, it was VYs fault the The Titans lost and he sucks and will never amount to a hill of beans. VY sucks. Rack me.

ATRAIN
01-11-2008, 11:47 AM
Vy's numbers proved that he sucks. His Center outed him for not playing smart, learning the playbook, not spending enough time in the film room. What further proof do we need?

ATRAIN
01-11-2008, 11:48 AM
on a side note.......yes Im a VY hater. I didn't want him drafted to the Texans and am glad him nor reggie was. I am sick of his hype and to this day having to put up with the city of Austin still riding VY's crotch. So I think I have every right to hate him and hate on him. That is all. I think he was a great college player but said this before the draft he will never be a great NFL qb and I stand by that.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 11:54 AM
on a side note.......yes Im a VY hater. I didn't want him drafted to the Texans and am glad him nor reggie was. I am sick oh his hype and to this day having to put up with the city of Austin still riding VY's crotch. So I think I have every right to hate him and hate on him. That is all.

i would have never guessed...

Austin rides VY's crotch for a reason....just so you know. VY is treated like a champion around there because he is a champion around there. It was an earned admiration and not anointed like a crown. If UT doesnt beat USC you still think they show Titans games in Austin? Umm no.

do I think Texans games should be shown in Austin over Titans games? Not if Titans games get better ratings. That is just simple business sense. Naming your team the Texans doesnt give you some God given right to be shown all over Texas. It's just a name and a logo. Its the HOUSTON Texans. it's not some agenda or conspiracy against Houston, its about getting the best numbers for their advertisers. it's a free product and if you don't like it, you have the option to get off the couch and go to a sports bar or you can install DirectTV and get it. free enterprise economy at work. but hate on if you must. no big deal.

ATRAIN
01-11-2008, 12:03 PM
i would have never guessed...

Austin rides VY's crotch for a reason....just so you know. VY is treated like a champion around there because he is a champion around there. It was an earned admiration and not anointed like a crown. If UT doesnt beat USC you still think they show Titans games in Austin? Umm no.

do I think Texans games should be shown in Austin over Titans games? Not if Titans games get better ratings. That is just simple business sense. Naming your team the Texans doesnt give you some God given right to be shown all over Texas. It's just a name and a logo. Its the HOUSTON Texans. it's not some agenda or conspiracy against Houston, its about getting the best numbers for their advertisers. it's a free product and if you don't like it, you have the option to get off the couch and go to a sports bar or you can install DirectTV and get it. free enterprise economy at work. but hate on if you must. no big deal.



Yes he did what he did for this city, so im just waiting for that time to pass of for the horns to win it again, im sure that will get everyone over vince. That is a big reason for my despise of Vy amongst other things. I did in fact go to a bar and even met the Texans fan club at 3rd base( which was a blast). The way I see it, he is no longer a horn, he is a titan, and is now the enemy. Since most of Austin are cowgirls, the still have a man crush on VY. Would that crush still be there he VY been drafted by Wash, or Philly? Prob not!!

infantrycak
01-11-2008, 12:05 PM
the guy has exceeded the expectations of the team that drafted him as well as the majority of the opinions around the league.

You claim to want objectivity and then say things like this. Last year this would have been true. This year it is unquestionably false. This isn't a Houston haters thing it is all over the country starting with TN fans wanting to start Collins, his center calling him out, his coaches commenting on his play and tons of talking heads talking about him regressing. He took a step back this year not forward and plenty of folks outside Houston noticed it since it was so obvious.

Lucky
01-11-2008, 12:18 PM
He took a step back this year not forward and plenty of folks outside Houston noticed it since it was so obvious.
The funny thing is, Young was a better passer this season (not good, just better than awful). He just didn't make as many plays with his legs. SH made a good point a few pages back, that Young seemed to come into the season out of shape. That, and his quad injury, forced him into playing from the pocket more. Which in the long run, might benefit Young's development.

TheRealJoker
01-11-2008, 12:22 PM
The funny thing is, Young was a better passer this season (not good, just better than awful). He just didn't make as many plays with his legs. SH made a good point a few pages back, that Young seemed to come into the season out of shape. That, and his quad injury, forced him into playing from the pocket more. Which in the long run, might benefit Young's development.

Who's fault is it Young came into the season out of shape?

Honoring Earl 34
01-11-2008, 12:22 PM
You claim to want objectivity and then say things like this. Last year this would have been true. This year it is unquestionably false. This isn't a Houston haters thing it is all over the country starting with TN fans wanting to start Collins, his center calling him out, his coaches commenting on his play and tons of talking heads talking about him regressing. He took a step back this year not forward and plenty of folks outside Houston noticed it since it was so obvious.

It would not suprise me if VY's star rose to it's highest point last year .

aj.
01-11-2008, 12:22 PM
The microcosm of it all is on the Titans message boards. Lots of division on him over there with (not surprisingly) the loudest defenders (and loudest critics of lacking weapons) sporting Longhorns avatars of some sort.

The division in the ranks is evident in the exchanges between some of the TN based Titans-first fans and the Austin/Houston based Vince-first fans. It's not unusual to have divided opinions about players but I sense there's an element of that fan base up there that wants the other to just go away.

It's not just what I'm interpreting from their boards. I know people who live there and they've expressed these feelings to me.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 12:23 PM
Either way, the Browns would've at least made it an entertaining game. Heck, they might have even won it.

It was the ugliest game of the weekend, that's for sure. Oh well, at least we will be spared the sight of watching 'the quad' run around in circles. :shades:

You would have watch LT run through the Browns on his way to 200 plus yards and 3+ TDs. The game would have been a joke. The worst run D in the NFL going against a run heavy team with the leagues leading rusher. Come on now. That is were the 41-10 stuff would have shown up.

Young defiantly need to stop the circling back around method of running. He seems to like to pull that one a lot ... pun intended.

toronto
01-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Who's fault is it Young came into the season out of shape?

I don't think he came into the season in 100% form that he had last year, but I believe this got magnified signifcantly when he hurt his quad in Tampa in Oct. I really believe that injury screwed up his entire season. I've pulled that muscle and it takes forever to heal.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 12:25 PM
Yes he did what he did for this city, so im just waiting for that time to pass of for the horns to win it again, im sure that will get everyone over vince. That is a big reason for my despise of Vy amongst other things. I did in fact go to a bar and even met the Texans fan club at 3rd base( which was a blast). The way I see it, he is no longer a horn, he is a titan, and is now the enemy. Since most of Austin are cowgirls, the still have a man crush on VY. Would that crush still be there he VY been drafted by Wash, or Philly? Prob not!!

Great point but that only furthers my point. The Titans are on TV because of the ratings. People want to see VY play for the Titans. If VY is on the Giants, Skins, or Philly the ratings wouldnt be the same and there would be a lot of conflicts by Cowboys on FOX too. It's all about the ratings and level of interest.

I remember studying in Austin and missing Oilers games because of the Cowboys. We didn't miss a whole lot of games but when it happened, it sucked and Sunday Ticket was a pipe dream back in the early 90s. At least now there are options.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 12:28 PM
You said that you post more here than over @ the TOMB, probably b/c you like to delve in reality more, & the reality of it is that even though you guys made the playoffs this year, the titans were never really a contender.

No I said I never post at the TOMB ... goTitans is my board. My post count is near 3K on that site.

But how many teams were really a contender against NE? NE has beaten most of the actual hard teams that are left. Dallas and the Colts are really the only teams I give a chance and both have already been beat. Badly I might add.

I hope someone can take them down ... would not mind it being an AFC South team but I do not think it will happen.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 12:31 PM
The microcosm of it all is on the Titans message boards. Lots of division on him over there with (not surprisingly) the loudest defenders (and loudest critics of lacking weapons) sporting Longhorns avatars of some sort.

The division in the ranks is evident in the exchanges between some of the TN based Titans-first fans and the Austin/Houston based Vince-first fans. It's not unusual to have divided opinions about players but I sense there's an element of that fan base up there that wants the other to just go away.

It's not just what I'm interpreting from their boards. I know people who live there and they've expressed these feelings to me.

I am sure the fans living in Tennessee are probably not big fans of that whole 'invasion' of interest from the outside. They understood that a few Houstonians may stick with the team after the move but its probably getting a little out of hand now. What if they draft Sweed in the 1st Round? its getting pretty crazy that is for sure. What if its all part and parcel of an evil Bud Adams master plan to bring the Titans to....drumroll please....AUSTIN!!

but yeah, even last week during the playoff game, Costas refers to the Titans as 'Houston'. I know that had to sting a bit. Not even the Oilers but 'Houston'.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 12:31 PM
You would have watch LT run through the Browns on his way to 200 plus yards and 3+ TDs. The game would have been a joke. The worst run D in the NFL going against a run heavy team with the leagues leading rusher. Come on now.

But the Browns have a way better offense than Tennessee. So it would have been an exciting game... A shootout!!!!

Errant Hothy
01-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Also continues to throw out the 'skilled players' rhetoric, when Kerry Collins did just fine with those same players. Another thing, the last time I checked, running backs were skilled positions...


I'm still waiting for a VY fan to tell me how Kerry Collins was able to be more effective then VY himself, when they played the same supposed crap at the skill positions.

austintexanite
01-11-2008, 12:33 PM
The microcosm of it all is on the Titans message boards. Lots of division on him over there with (not surprisingly) the loudest defenders (and loudest critics of lacking weapons) sporting Longhorns avatars of some sort.

The division in the ranks is evident in the exchanges between some of the TN based Titans-first fans and the Austin/Houston based Vince-first fans. It's not unusual to have divided opinions about players but I sense there's an element of that fan base up there that wants the other to just go away.

It's not just what I'm interpreting from their boards. I know people who live there and they've expressed these feelings to me.

I hear you on that one, there is plenty of frustration with real Titan fans and Young fans who follow the Titans. One of my friends was an Oiler fan and is still a Tack fan. Anyway, he is a UT alum, but hates the fact that many of his Cowboy friends root for the Tacks because of Vince. I've met a couple of people like that around Austin, but the majority are just Vince sniffers.

When it comes to the allegiance lines at the Tomb, it's actually pretty funny. At first they liked all the new fans, but once they realized they only liked Vince and made excuses for him things turned quickly. Oh well, their problem not ours.:texflag:

GlassHalfFull
01-11-2008, 12:36 PM
I stated that Mario's level of effort was inconsistent early in the season to back up my argument that Mario didn't deserve Player of the Year. Not to back up an argument that Mario sucks. big difference. I said Mario was too inconsistent with his effort and production to be considered POY not that Mario sucks.

I have supported Mario but that doesnt mean I have to say that he deserves to be DPOY.....because he doesnt.

Like I said, I understand why all the local yayhoos hate on Vince, but that doesnt mean that VY sucks. This isnt about Mario v Vince. This is about ignorance v. reality.

I guess being objective about things is frowned upon. let's just make it all bias, hyperbole, and ignorance.

Pot meet Kettle :potkettle:

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 12:38 PM
I'm still waiting for a VY fan to tell me how Kerry Collins was able to be more effective then VY himself, when they played the same supposed crap at the skill positions.

How many TDs did Collins throw this season? He had 3 games basically to prove he could move the ball with these "skilled" players and still failed to score a TD. Add the fact that he was passing against the Colts second team D makes you really wonder how bad the Titans WR core is.

Double Barrel
01-11-2008, 12:41 PM
At least we went to the prom instead of watching from the outside wishing we could have alteast worked the lights ... :texflag:

Resorting to high school analogies? Sounds like the words of a bitterman.

Congrats on making the playoffs...and losing. yeah, we haven't been there in our measly six seasons, but choking out early is par for the course with your franchise's four decades of futility.

OK I still don't think number 4 counts. I mean come on he only made the pro bowl because 1. Brady Withdrew, 2. Rivers got hurt and couldn't play. Being a 3rd choice to be a 3rd stringer does not count in my mind.

Understand your point, but that doesn't stop the VY-is-god crowd from propping him up with his Pro Bowl appearance. So it's fair game when talking about the overwhelming hype around the dude.

What the hell does the guy have to do to not be the subject of such ignorant jealousy and blind hatred?

Live up to the hype.

and to the people that show his INT numbers, well that is what happens with young QBs.

I have been told on too many occasions to count that VY is an elite QB already. So which is it? A young QB who is nothing like the hype machine, struggling to cope with a pro-style offense after being coddled with the spread to accommodate his running style and lack of precise passing ability? Or, he is an elite QB who had a really bad year?

The delusions of hype are not living up to a reality check.

And lastly, did you see the talent that is around him at the skill positions?

Excuses are like...well, you know, and they all stink. The Tits were good enough to make the playoffs, so all this hand-wringing on your part only serves to expose your agenda.

Why can't you just admit that the real Vince Young is nothing like the myth and legend of His Greatness?

I guess being objective about things is frowned upon. let's just make it all bias, hyperbole, and ignorance.

That's never stopped you from spewing an opinion! :victory:

It's not an anti-VY thing for me, as much as it is an anti-VY-hype thing.

Word up. I was certainly looking forward to watching an elite QB at work this year, only because I gave the VY-is-god crowd the benefit of the doubt.

Talk about a letdown!

I just wish our fanbase was a little more objective and less homer/hater.

lol:

oh, you were serious? Coming from you, man, that is rich!

...it just drives me crazy when I hear the same people make blanket VY sucks statements when the guy has exceeded the expectations of the team that drafted him as well as the majority of the opinions around the league.

Huh? :um:

Somebody has been too busy feeding the hype machine to actually absorb what it's been spewing the past year. The expectations by the VY-is-god crowd had the dude winning Super Bowls all by his lonesome and the NFL front office re-writing the rule book to adjust the league to his awesome talent and abilities.

Although I felt we should have passed on resigning Carr and drafted Young, I am actually glad that we didn't draft Young. half the fans would already be calling for him to be benched....the same fans that were still making excuses for DC after 5 years of failure. i guess some people are just judged differently. hmmm....

Carr never had the hype around him like VY has had the past couple of seasons. And VY never played on a brand new expansion team. It's apples and oranges with regards to situations. As much as you hate David Carr, it appears your love for Young is just as strong.

Objectivity is obviously not your thing. :howdy:

ATRAIN
01-11-2008, 12:45 PM
I am sure the fans living in Tennessee are probably not big fans of that whole 'invasion' of interest from the outside. They understood that a few Houstonians may stick with the team after the move but its probably getting a little out of hand now. What if they draft Sweed in the 1st Round? its getting pretty crazy that is for sure. What if its all part and parcel of an evil Bud Adams master plan to bring the Titans to....drumroll please....AUSTIN!!

but yeah, even last week during the playoff game, Costas refers to the Titans as 'Houston'. I know that had to sting a bit. Not even the Oilers but 'Houston'.



Austin will not allow a pro team to come into town. Austin is a UT town and won't allow it. Too bad though, I would love a pro team of some sort. Baseball/football/ or baseketball. Oh well, when I move to Houston next year I wont have that problem :).

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 12:51 PM
How many TDs did Collins throw this season? He had 3 games basically to prove he could move the ball with these "skilled" players and still failed to score a TD. Add the fact that he was passing against the Colts second team D makes you really wonder how bad the Titans WR core is.

1 game started (appeared in 6):
He went 0 TD's, but he also threw 0 INT's....he completed 61% of his passes for a QB rating of 79.9 v. Youngs 17 INT's and 71.1 rating.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 12:51 PM
You claim to want objectivity and then say things like this. Last year this would have been true. This year it is unquestionably false. This isn't a Houston haters thing it is all over the country starting with TN fans wanting to start Collins, his center calling him out, his coaches commenting on his play and tons of talking heads talking about him regressing. He took a step back this year not forward and plenty of folks outside Houston noticed it since it was so obvious.

Young was looked at as a less than polished NFL QB by most accounts. He was looked at as a project but had it thrust on him early. He made some big plays last year and helped them improve from 3-13 the previous year. This year, he QBed a team that made the playoffs. They played a competitive game and all this with a inarguably underfunded roster. If they werent even expecting him to start until his 2nd season or later, why would they be disappointed with his progress? As Texans fans we should all remember how freaking hard our division is and give credit where credit is due. VY didn't lead his team to the playoffs by himself, but he did guarantee they would get there....and what'd ya know.

fwiw - i have never said Young was an elite QB. It just seems that everyone else expects him to be there already. we will learn a lot about the future of VY in his 3rd year. Can he recapture the athleticism and escapability he showed in Year 1? Can he progress as a passer and cut down on his interceptions? He will have to in order to take the next step in becoming a top QB in the league.

Wolf
01-11-2008, 01:02 PM
I am so glad we didn't draft Young... we could have saved alot of bandwidth space becase at this point the arguments here and on TOMB look very similar to another QB that the Texans know too well and had tons of threads about it (and I admit I was a YKW supporter and I was flat out wrong about the guy)

I am not comparing VY to an ex QB here (with out the hype) just the pros and cons of a QB running (or trying to run) an NFL offense

toronto
01-11-2008, 01:04 PM
I'm still waiting for a VY fan to tell me how Kerry Collins was able to be more effective then VY himself, when they played the same supposed crap at the skill positions.

Collins didn't do anything that special, other than the Texans game.

I DQ the Indy game, they didn't care at all and let the Titans win. A JC QB would have completed passes in that scrimmage.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 01:06 PM
Collins didn't do anything that special, other than the Texans game.

I DQ the Indy game, they didn't care at all and let the Titans win. A JC QB would have completed passes in that scrimmage.

That was the only game he started.

toronto
01-11-2008, 01:17 PM
That was the only game he started.

Fine...but they didn't win that game because of Collins, they won that game because Bironas kicked a zillion FGs, which actually I would argue is a strike against Collins.

I looked up his stats, 25 of 42 for 280 yards, no TDs, no INTs.

Titans ran the ball down the Texan's throat that game, 39 rushes for 160 yards....

HOU-TEX
01-11-2008, 01:21 PM
That was the only game he started.

*ahem* due to someone's vahjayjay hurting.

Otherwise we would've won that dadgum game. Of course Ron Daynes dining partner put up a 100 burger on us.:bat:

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Fine...but they didn't win that game because of Collins, they won that game because Bironas kicked a zillion FGs, which actually I would argue is a strike against Collins.

I looked up his stats, 25 of 42 for 280 yards, no TDs, no INTs.

Titans ran the ball down the Texan's throat that game, 39 rushes for 160 yards....

25 of 42 for 280 is a damn fine afternoon...
= 11.24 yards per reception (thats pretty good in anyone's book)

39 for 160 = 4.1 ypc (is good, but not stellar).


Bottom line..... Did Kerry Collins manage the game well for the Titans? Yes!!

toronto
01-11-2008, 01:25 PM
25 of 42 for 280 is a damn fine afternoon...
= 11.24 yards per reception (thats pretty good in anyone's book)

39 for 160 = 4.1 ypc (is good, but not stellar).


Bottom line..... Did Kerry Collins manage the game well for the Titans? Yes!!

No TDs? 8 FGs? He managed a good game, then they completely sucked in the red zone. If VY had done that? I'm guessing based on the context of this thread he would be RIPPED to shreds.

I'm not a VY homer, but I believe he was the right pick for the Titans then, and have no issues with it two seasons later.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 01:34 PM
No TDs? 8 FGs? He managed a good game, then they completely sucked in the red zone. If VY had done that? I'm guessing based on the context of this thread he would be RIPPED to shreds.

I'm not a VY homer, but I believe he was the right pick for the Titans then, and have no issues with it two seasons later.

I would be happy with the pick too. going from 3-13 to 8-8 then playoffs shows signs that things are turning around and whether people like it or not, VY has been part of that turnaround. Not THE part just A part which happens to be the most critical position on the team. I don't see how you couldn't be happy given the circumstances and realities of the AFC.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 01:43 PM
No TDs? 8 FGs? He managed a good game, then they completely sucked in the red zone. If VY had done that? I'm guessing based on the context of this thread he would be RIPPED to shreds.

I'm not a VY homer, but I believe he was the right pick for the Titans then, and have no issues with it two seasons later.

If you have the running game that Tennessee has AND you had your back-up QB in the game, I'm thinking 31 other teams would have run the ball in the red zone....

Then again, if you have the running game that Tennessee has and Young is your QB in the game, I'm thinking 31 other teams would have run the ball in the red zone too....

BTW, I'm exstatic that he plays for the Tinnbreds...

Errant Hothy
01-11-2008, 01:44 PM
Fine...but they didn't win that game because of Collins, they won that game because Bironas kicked a zillion FGs, which actually I would argue is a strike against Collins.

I looked up his stats, 25 of 42 for 280 yards, no TDs, no INTs.

Titans ran the ball down the Texan's throat that game, 39 rushes for 160 yards....

So when Collins plays, and Bironas kicks a FG to win the game the credit goes to Bironeas. But when VY plays, and Bironas kicks the game-winning FG, the credit goed to VY for getting them in position to score?

Players who where more responsible then VY for the succes of the Titans: Albert Haynesworth, and RB, Bironas, Van den Boasch, Bullock, and Pac-Man (last year).

kastofsna
01-11-2008, 01:46 PM
the word "hater" is becoming the downfall of our society as we know it. what an IDIOTIC thing to say.

toronto
01-11-2008, 01:47 PM
I would be happy with the pick too. going from 3-13 to 8-8 then playoffs shows signs that things are turning around and whether people like it or not, VY has been part of that turnaround. Not THE part just A part which happens to be the most critical position on the team. I don't see how you couldn't be happy given the circumstances and realities of the AFC.

Once Williams and Bush were taken, I knew they had two choices. Take VY, or trade down and take BPA on D because they were NOT going to take Leinart or Cutler.

toronto
01-11-2008, 01:50 PM
So when Collins plays, and Bironas kicks a FG to win the game the credit goes to Bironeas. But when VY plays, and Bironas kicks the game-winning FG, the credit goed to VY for getting them in position to score?

Players who where more responsible then VY for the succes of the Titans: Albert Haynesworth, and RB, Bironas, Van den Boasch, Bullock, and Pac-Man (last year).

Stipulated on all! I am not someone who thinks VY walks on water, not even close. I think he's a talented kid that is a work in progress. I will say this....Brady's numbers DOUBLED (50TD vs. 25, 1200 more yards) this year with Welker Stallworth and Moss versus the trash he had last year. Talent around the QB does matter, even for Greek Gods Jim Nantz wants to marry.

WWJD
01-11-2008, 01:50 PM
Vince is a work in progress...just like every other young QB in the league.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 01:51 PM
So when Collins plays, and Bironas kicks a FG to win the game the credit goes to Bironeas. But when VY plays, and Bironas kicks the game-winning FG, the credit goed to VY for getting them in position to score?
Players who where more responsible then VY for the succes of the Titans: Albert Haynesworth, and RB, Bironas, Van den Boasch, Bullock, and Pac-Man (last year).

Nice catch Hoth.....

ATRAIN
01-11-2008, 01:53 PM
Nice catch Hoth.....



Yes I agree, nice catch.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 01:55 PM
Stipulated on all! I am not someone who thinks VY walks on water, not even close. I think he's a talented kid that is a work in progress. I will say this....Brady's numbers DOUBLED (50TD vs. 25, 1200 more yards) this year with Welker Stallworth and Moss versus the trash he had last year. Talent around the QB does matter, even for Greek Gods Jim Nantz wants to marry.

Point is talent doesn't automatically = success...

Many, many, many talented football players have never made it in the NFL.

ATRAIN
01-11-2008, 01:58 PM
Point is talent doesn't automatically = success...

Many, many, many talented football players have never made it in the NFL.



So you saying VY will never succeed as a NFL qb............because I say that :). Sorry VY but dont worry ESPN will forever show your Rose bowl victory.

toronto
01-11-2008, 02:00 PM
Actually, one sidepoint. I would take Haynesworth off that list for 2006, seeing as how he was suspended for several games.

And to answer Hoth's question on who I would credit? Honestly? Probably Bironas. That game was so messed up that I'm still stunned to this day that the Titans almost pulled another 35-3 then still won. I'm glad I went to the park with my son and missed the 4th quarter. I would have killed my TV.

HOU-TEX
01-11-2008, 02:11 PM
Personally, I think the titans should've kept McNair around for another year or two. McNair was his mentor. He would've been a better influence than Collins has been. IIRC, McNair was physically similar when he first came into the league, but had the intelligence to learn the rights and wrongs of the NFL. Whether VY can do the same, has yet to be determined.

I'm not a VY "lover" or "hater". I'm happy we didn't draft him that's all. :)

Errant Hothy
01-11-2008, 02:11 PM
Once Williams and Bush were taken, I knew they had two choices. Take VY, or trade down and take BPA on D because they were NOT going to take Leinart or Cutler.

Talk coming out of Tennesse shortly after the draft was that both Fisher and Chow would rather have drafted Cutler or Leinart over VY, and VY was a Bud call.

Chow and VY is not, nor will it ever be, a good combo.

toronto
01-11-2008, 02:16 PM
Talk coming out of Tennesse shortly after the draft was that both Fisher and Chow would rather have drfat Cutler or Leinart over VY, and VY was a Bud call.

Chow and VY is not, nor will it ever be, a good combo.

Yeah I know....My opinion was on a different wavelength than the Titan coaches....I knew Leinart was a bust waiting to happen and he hasn't let me down thus far.

Funniest thing for me out of these two seasons is that every time I start calling for Fisher's head, he pulls a rabbit out of a hat and shows me he knows what he's doing and I'm just another ***** armchair QB.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 02:18 PM
1 game started (appeared in 6):
He went 0 TD's, but he also threw 0 INT's....he completed 61% of his passes for a QB rating of 79.9 v. Youngs 17 INT's and 71.1 rating.

I like how you omit that Young completed 62.3% of his passes ... :thinking:

but why ... oh yeah it makes your argument bunk. If you add in that Young had to face the Colts 1st team D, the Jags D 2x, SD .... it is an apples to oranges comparison.

Collins played against some pretty soft D's. He only came in for significant amount of time against Houston, Colts Second team and Tampa. In each of those games he failed to make any significant scoring drives. Struggling with dropped passes and miss run routes. Seem to be a theme on the Titans this year which was the entire point of my post off of Hoth-Boys comment.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 02:25 PM
I like how you omit that Young completed 62.3% of his passes ... :thinking:



How dumb of me to not put him in that 'high completion' category with the likes of David Carr...


oh wait..... or does that mean 37.7% were drops by defenders?!?

:hmmm:

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 02:27 PM
I like how you omit that Young completed 62.3% of his passes ... :thinking:

but why ... oh yeah it makes your argument bunk. If you add in that Young had to face the Colts 1st team D, the Jags D 2x, SD .... it is an apples to oranges comparison.

Collins played against some pretty soft D's. He only came in for significant amount of time against Houston, Colts Second team and Tampa. In each of those games he failed to make any significant scoring drives. Struggling with dropped passes and miss run routes. Seem to be a theme on the Titans this year which was the entire point of my post off of Hoth-Boys comment.


Oh yeah.... That Tampa 'D' really sucks.... :rolleyes:

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 02:30 PM
I like how you omit that Young completed 62.3% of his passes ... :thinking:


If that were a meaningful stat (which we know it's not), it sounds to me like you have some pretty decent wide receivers. All we've heard is that he has no weapons at all... Well, who the hell is catching 62.3% of his passes???

Wolf
01-11-2008, 02:38 PM
I thought stats and VY didn't go hand in hand

:hides:
http://www.exhibitoronline.com/exhibitormagazine/images/november_2004/mediaevent/wilson_small.jpg

Double Barrel
01-11-2008, 02:51 PM
If that were a meaningful stat (which we know it's not), it sounds to me like you have some pretty decent wide receivers. All we've heard is that he has no weapons at all... Well, who the hell is catching 62.3% of his passes???


heh-heh, nice point. Kind of negates the blame-anyone-but-Vince argument that is being attempted here. Good work.

I will say this....Brady's numbers DOUBLED (50TD vs. 25, 1200 more yards) this year with Welker Stallworth and Moss versus the trash he had last year. Talent around the QB does matter, even for Greek Gods Jim Nantz wants to marry.

And yet Brady still has three rings before getting talent around him. This is what elite players do, elevate the talent around them to perform above and beyond their expectations.

Obviously, I have been so wrong to put Vince Young in that elite crowd and expect him to make those around him bitter...errr...I mean better. Although all he does is win, and when he doesn't, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. He still won the game, but unfortunately, the other team scored more points.

Mr teX
01-11-2008, 02:57 PM
Year 3 will be the year for him whether he sinks or swims. For the record I think he'll cut down on his INT's, but i don't think he'll ever become the super talent that he was at UT b/c teams aren't going to let him run around like that in the NFL; not if they can help it that is. You can see he's even getting the memo in that regard b/c he's trying not to run & he's sliding more than he ever did @ UT.

He'll just end up being a below average Qb.................... even when he gets a bit more talent around him.

WesmanTexanfan
01-11-2008, 03:07 PM
Actually, one sidepoint. I would take Haynesworth off that list for 2006, seeing as how he was suspended for several games.

And to answer Hoth's question on who I would credit? Honestly? Probably Bironas. That game was so messed up that I'm still stunned to this day that the Titans almost pulled another 35-3 then still won. I'm glad I went to the park with my son and missed the 4th quarter. I would have killed my TV.



the worst part was he(kc) made a great throw on dunta, i was like crap, didnt you get the scouting report collins... you dont throw over there..... sucked. i went and shot the basketball for like 4 hours

infantrycak
01-11-2008, 03:27 PM
Yeah I know....My opinion was on a different wavelength than the Titan coaches....I knew Leinart was a bust waiting to happen and he hasn't let me down thus far.

Wait, so Leinart has a better QB rating, yards per game, yards per attempt and TD % and he is a bust. So logically...

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Wait, so Leinart has a better QB rating, yards per game, yards per attempt and TD % and he is a bust. So logically...

yeah, Leinart can't be called a bust yet. he needs to prove he can stay healthy and he should be ok. sounds familiar....

76Texan
01-11-2008, 03:43 PM
I like how you omit that Young completed 62.3% of his passes ... :thinking:

but why ... oh yeah it makes your argument bunk. If you add in that Young had to face the Colts 1st team D, the Jags D 2x, SD .... it is an apples to oranges comparison.

Collins played against some pretty soft D's. He only came in for significant amount of time against Houston, Colts Second team and Tampa. In each of those games he failed to make any significant scoring drives. Struggling with dropped passes and miss run routes. Seem to be a theme on the Titans this year which was the entire point of my post off of Hoth-Boys comment.Both of our QBs were backups before this year. They were both drafted much lower. They each have fewer starts under their belt to-date, and yet, they still put up better numbers across the board than VY.

At times, they were without certain #1 WR, #1 RB. In some game, even the #2 or #3 WR, #2,3,4 Rbs, O-Linemen on IR, the work.
And also, they faced the same tough deffenses (plus the Titans).

:thinking:

Double Barrel
01-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Year 3 will be the year for him whether he sinks or swims. For the record I think he'll cut down on his INT's, but i don't think he'll ever become the super talent that he was at UT b/c teams aren't going to let him run around like that in the NFL; not if they can help it that is. You can see he's even getting the memo in that regard b/c he's trying not to run & he's sliding more than he ever did @ UT.

He'll just end up being a below average Qb.................... even when he gets a bit more talent around him.

Mike Vick was like the run & shoot offense in a certain regard. When it was new, they both took the league by storm. But the NFL has a way of balancing things out, and defenses quickly figured out ways to stop one-dimensional offenses.

That being said, the days of the prototype "running QB who can't pass" are behind us, simply because defenses now spy the QB and make them beat them with their arms. And I'm just not convinced that Vince Young has anything but an average arm. He's got the strength, and I've seen him make some good throws, but then he is inconsistent with his decisions. The question will be his ability to learn to read defenses and make proper adjustments, and his ability to elevate his passing game. Many times, though, players with a great talent in one area will rely on said talent to the detriment of improving other areas.

The jury is still out on VY, as it should be. Dude is only in his second season, so realistic expectations would be that he'll improve his game over the next few seasons. As long as he doesn't read and buy into the hype about himself.

Second Honeymoon
01-11-2008, 03:50 PM
Mike Vick was like the run & shoot offense in a certain regard. When it was new, they both took the league by storm. But the NFL has a way of balancing things out, and defenses quickly figured out ways to stop one-dimensional offenses.

That being said, the days of the prototype "running QB who can't pass" are behind us, simply because defenses now spy the QB and make them beat them with their arms. And I'm just not convinced that Vince Young has anything but an average arm. He's got the strength, and I've seen him make some good throws, but then he is inconsistent with his decisions. The question will be his ability to learn to read defenses and make proper adjustments, and his ability to elevate his passing game. Many times, though, players with a great talent in one area will rely on said talent to the detriment of improving other areas.

The jury is still out on VY, as it should be. Dude is only in his second season, so realistic expectations would be that he'll improve his game over the next few seasons. As long as he doesn't read and buy into the hype about himself.

tremendous post

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 03:53 PM
If that were a meaningful stat (which we know it's not), it sounds to me like you have some pretty decent wide receivers. All we've heard is that he has no weapons at all... Well, who the hell is catching 62.3% of his passes???

When 49% of your catches are caught at the TE or back level it shows that your WR core is not doing there job. If his WR could have hauled in balls the numbers would have looked a lot better. Even in previous posts you have mentioned the dropped balls. Take one side or the other not which ever is convenient.

infantrycak
01-11-2008, 03:56 PM
The question will be his ability to learn to read defenses and make proper adjustments, and his ability to elevate his passing game.

Kind of the same thing but he needs to be able to read his WRs as well. Classic example early this year he has a WR (around left hashmark) with a couple yards separation from the DB who is off his left shoulder. Instead of anticipating the WR breaking for the post and increasing the separation (which is where the WR went), he went to the left corner which would have meant the WR would have had to break toward the DB.

The jury is still out on VY, as it should be. Dude is only in his second season, so realistic expectations would be that he'll improve his game over the next few seasons. As long as he doesn't read and buy into the hype about himself.

Yup.

Wolf
01-11-2008, 03:56 PM
When 49% of your catches are caught at the TE or back level it shows that your WR core is not doing there job. If his WR could have hauled in balls the numbers would have looked a lot better. Even in previous posts you have mentioned the dropped balls. Take one side or the other not which ever is convenient.

same could be said with Carr and DD :stirpot:

Errant Hothy
01-11-2008, 03:57 PM
When 49% of your catches are caught at the TE or back level it shows that your WR core is not doing there job. If his WR could have hauled in balls the numbers would have looked a lot better. Even in previous posts you have mentioned the dropped balls. Take one side or the other not which ever is convenient.

Or, as was the case here in Houston with DC, it means that your QB is not having much succes getting the ball down the field.

If any fanbase knows about dump off passes to the RBs and TEs is the Texans fan base.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:03 PM
When 49% of your catches are caught at the TE or back level it shows that your WR core is not doing there job. If his WR could have hauled in balls the numbers would have looked a lot better. Even in previous posts you have mentioned the dropped balls. Take one side or the other not which ever is convenient.

I said that I had noticed some drops - sure, but I never used that as an excuse for Vincent not being a very good QB. Every team has some drops. Heck TO comes close to leading the league every year with drops.... So trying to manipulate my words into something that they were not is weak!!!



I also remember you stating the Eric Moulds would be good for the Titans...



*erupts into laughter*

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Or, as was the case here in Houston with DC, it means that your QB is not having much succes getting the ball down the field.
.


Perfectly stated.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Both of our QBs were backups before this year. They were both drafted much lower. They each have fewer starts under their belt to-date, and yet, they still put up better numbers across the board than VY.

At times, they were without certain #1 WR, #1 RB. In some game, even the #2 or #3 WR, #2,3,4 Rbs, O-Linemen on IR, the work.
And also, they faced the same tough deffenses (plus the Titans).

:thinking:

And how many of those QB played on a playoff team? Again the whole point of the game is to win. If you finish 8-8 then you are not doing enough to make the playoffs. Plain and simple.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:15 PM
Or, as was the case here in Houston with DC, it means that your QB is not having much succes getting the ball down the field.

If any fanbase knows about dump off passes to the RBs and TEs is the Texans fan base.

When balls are going right through your WR hands it is on the WR not the QB. If the ball is there and dropped again you have to look at the tallent. Name one team any one of our WR would have been a #1 on other then the Titans?

I'm not going to hold my breath for a reply ...

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:16 PM
And how many of those QB played on a playoff team? Again the whole point of the game is to win. If you finish 8-8 then you are not doing enough to make the playoffs. Plain and simple.

Ooooh...Oooooooh Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter.......... Matt Schaub

Check out the big brain on Arrow... Brilliantly deduced.... :rolleyes:

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:19 PM
When balls are going right through your WR hands it is on the WR not the QB. If the ball is there and dropped again you have to look at the tallent. Name one team any one of our WR would have been a #1 on other then the Titans?

I'm not going to hold my breath for a reply ...

Can we move this thread to the All encompassing David Carr thread... Seriously, it's re-hashing the same excuses...

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:21 PM
I said that I had noticed some drops - sure, but I never used that as an excuse for Vincent not being a very good QB. Every team has some drops. Heck TO comes close to leading the league every year with drops.... So trying to manipulate my words into something that they were not is weak!!!



I also remember you stating the Eric Moulds would be good for the Titans...



*erupts into laughter*

I stand by that. I hope he was able to show Gage a thing or two and elevate his game to the next level. I think now Gage is a legit #2 in the league and still has room for improvement. Even Williams started to show improvement at the end of the season. It does not help when players like Troupe get hit in the face masks with balls are lose lobs over there shoulder.

I do not think there is a single 9er fan who does not understand TO drops balls. It is pretty much his MO. Catch 4 drop two then tell everyone how great those 4 were. The Packers v 9ers playoff game where he was tattooed on in the chest and split the secondary only to later get interviewed about how good he was? In that game if he had just pulled down the easy catches there would have been no need for a last minute drive and TO's head may actually be 2 sizes smaller now. Picture a 3/4 inflated Good Year Blimp.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:23 PM
Can we move this thread to the All encompassing David Carr thread... Seriously, it's re-hashing the same excuses...

So which WR on the Titans are you calling AJ? I just want to make sure I am quoting you correctly for the goTitans funniest quotes thread.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:26 PM
So which WR on the Titans are you calling AJ? I just want to make sure I am quoting you correctly for the goTitans funniest quotes thread.

Too bad they won't activate my account over there, you would've already won....


As far as AJ goes, having him is luxury. A luxury that probably 25 other teams don't have either...

Next??!?

76Texan
01-11-2008, 04:27 PM
And how many of those QB played on a playoff team? Again the whole point of the game is to win. If you finish 8-8 then you are not doing enough to make the playoffs. Plain and simple.

The Tacks should have gotten Grossman for cheap at the beginning of the season and bench VY then? :gun:

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:32 PM
The Tacks should have gotten Grossman for cheap at the beginning of the season and bench VY then? :gun:

Probably should have gotten Carr. Afterall there would have been more TD's and less INT's..

:stirpot:

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Too bad they won't activate my account over there, you would've already won....


As far as AJ goes, having him is luxury. A luxury that probably 25 other teams don't have either...

Next??!?

Your argument was based on how in the past Texans fans had made excusess that there WR had dropped balls (for DC). I think it is fair to add AJ into this conversation. If Young had AJ you do not think his numbers would have improved?

Delusional

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:36 PM
Probably should have gotten Carr. Afterall there would have been more TD's and less INT's..

:stirpot:

And he is still a loser. He still stinks of cow pie. Again I ask how many playoff games did he take you too? Riiiiight

76Texan
01-11-2008, 04:39 PM
Coming from a guy who (at the beginning season, on gotitans) thought that the Titans D-line SUCKS (exact word), that KVB overpressures, that "Fat" Albert when not making stupid fouls would be sucking wind on the sideline, and that the Titans have no DE since Carter... one can understand why he has no clue as to how the tacks got their wins! http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:39 PM
Your argument was based on how in the past Texans fans had made excusess that there WR had dropped balls (for DC). I think it is fair to add AJ into this conversation. If Young had AJ you do not think his numbers would have improved?

Delusional

I think we had Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney as our #1 and #2, NO running game (James Allen and Johnathon Wells) so again, no sympathy here.

And again, AJ is a luxury that most NFL teams DON'T have, so throwing him in to the equation is too proposterous to hypothisize... But yes, any QB's numbers would improve having an AJ....

Errant Hothy
01-11-2008, 04:40 PM
Your argument was based on how in the past Texans fans had made excusess that there WR had dropped balls (for DC). I think it is fair to add AJ into this conversation. If Young had AJ you do not think his numbers would have improved?

Delusional

NO, because some of us truly beleive that the issue is VY and not the WRs. Carr had AJ and his numbers trended downwards.

Does Tenn. have great talent at the WR spot...no. But there are QBs who have been successful with the same level of talent.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 04:44 PM
NO, because some of us truly beleive that the issue is VY and not the WRs. Carr had AJ and his numbers trended downwards.

Does Tenn. have great talent at the WR spot...no. But there are QBs who have been successful with the same level of talent.

With a WR core that would barely make the #2 spot on any team. Please mention a couple since you say they exist. While you're at it please mention a team with a QB in his second season that fits that mold.

76Texan
01-11-2008, 04:45 PM
I think we had Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney as our #1 and #2, so again, no sympathy here.

And again, AJ is a luxury that most NFL teams DON'T have, so throwing him in to the equation is too proposterous to hypothisize... But yes, any QB's numbers would improve having an AJ....Not necessarily. AJ won't be having any kind of numbers with VY throwing to him. I mean, if the pass doesn't come your way, how the heck you are going to catch any?

Carr, at least, can find Moulds a few, even with AJ in there.
:)

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:49 PM
Not necessarily. AJ won't be having any kind of numbers with VY throwing to him. I mean, if the pass doesn't come your way, how the heck you are going to catch any?

Carr, at least, can find Moulds a few, even with AJ in there.
:)

AJ would make plays for 'his highness'..... See Limas Sweed.

Texan_Bill
01-11-2008, 04:50 PM
With a WR core that would barely make the #2 spot on any team. Please mention a couple since you say they exist. While you're at it please mention a team with a QB in his second season that fits that mold.

Someone please shoot me and put me out of my misery.... :gun:

:wild:

76Texan
01-11-2008, 05:00 PM
With a WR core that would barely make the #2 spot on any team. Please mention a couple since you say they exist. While you're at it please mention a team with a QB in his second season that fits that mold.
Tom Brady!

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 05:04 PM
Coming from a guy who (at the beginning season, on gotitans) thought that the Titans D-line SUCKS (exact word), that KVB overpressures, that "Fat" Albert when not making stupid fouls would be sucking wind on the sideline, and that the Titans have no DE since Carter... one can understand why he has no clue as to how the tacks got their wins! http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Nice find ... glad to see you keep up. I think think AH sucks wind and it were not for a contract season he still would have. In our first game against SD he had numorous times in the 4th where he was out. When AH was not playing KVB's pressure was nill. Mainly because he rushes to the outside, if AH is not there to push the pocket back KVB ends up out of the play on the backside. Odom was nothing the last couple season and injury prone. Again getting help from AH wanting to see the money.

I never said I did not know how we got our wins. Where did I say that? My argument was that we have no WR and that VY could have put up better numbers if we did.

Bulluck53
01-11-2008, 05:30 PM
I love this thread, just when you think it ends it kicks back into gear. It really is amusing to read through.

76Texan
01-11-2008, 05:42 PM
Nice find ... glad to see you keep up. I think think AH sucks wind and it were not for a contract season he still would have. In our first game against SD he had numorous times in the 4th where he was out. When AH was not playing KVB's pressure was nill. Mainly because he rushes to the outside, if AH is not there to push the pocket back KVB ends up out of the play on the backside. Odom was nothing the last couple season and injury prone. Again getting help from AH wanting to see the money.

I never said I did not know how we got our wins. Where did I say that? My argument was that we have no WR and that VY could have put up better numbers if we did.

Glad to see that you still remember what you said before! http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

We all overstate certain things to get on the other's nerves is all.

But, back to the WR question, besides Brady in his second and third year, there was also Kyle Boller who didn't really have good WRs in his first couple of years but managed 10 & 9 wins.

Favre had Sharpe but no #2 WR to speak of.

Jim Harbaugh of the Bears managed 11 wins in 91 with no WR to speak of.

To name a few. :specnatz:

76Texan
01-11-2008, 05:43 PM
I love this thread, just when you think it ends it kicks back into gear. It really is amusing to read through.

Thanks mostly to BA and TB! http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Overalls
01-11-2008, 07:18 PM
Since so many people are either banned from the TOMB or don't go there I thought I would bring this little thread into the discusion.

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33418

Notice the title.

Titans Receivers among lowest in Dropped Passes


It has a nice little chart from this site.

stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp


:fans:

76Texan
01-11-2008, 07:39 PM
Since so many people are either banned from the TOMB or don't go there I thought I would bring this little thread into the discusion.

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33418

Notice the title.




It has a nice little chart from this site.

stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp


:fans:Nice find Overalls. I found this post to be pretty funny:

...If there was a way to measure the "quality" of dropped passes...

austintexanite
01-11-2008, 08:36 PM
Since so many people are either banned from the TOMB or don't go there I thought I would bring this little thread into the discusion.

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33418

Notice the title.




It has a nice little chart from this site.

stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp


:fans:


MAAANNN....I was about to post that link, I was too busy reading all the posts. Bulluck is right, this thread is pretty amusing.

76Texan
01-11-2008, 10:35 PM
MAAANNN....I was about to post that link, I was too busy reading all the posts. Bulluck is right, this thread is pretty amusing.
Yeah, and that post about the percentage of drop passes per incompletions is simply dandy.

Ya know, the completions are all your highness.
Only the incompletions count toward the receivers, they are no good to start with.

Pretty tacky huh! :gun:

And wait, he didn't even get the calculation right! http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Tacky tacks tacks! :thinking:

76Texan
01-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Stipulated on all! I am not someone who thinks VY walks on water, not even close. I think he's a talented kid that is a work in progress. I will say this....Brady's numbers DOUBLED (50TD vs. 25, 1200 more yards) this year with Welker Stallworth and Moss versus the trash he had last year. Talent around the QB does matter, even for Greek Gods Jim Nantz wants to marry.Vincent would have done a whole hell a lot better with the trash Brady had last year! :specnatz:

76Texan
01-11-2008, 10:52 PM
When 49% of your catches are caught at the TE or back level it shows that your WR core is not doing there job. If his WR could have hauled in balls the numbers would have looked a lot better. Even in previous posts you have mentioned the dropped balls. Take one side or the other not which ever is convenient.
Now that we know the drop balls scenario is not e good excuse, the question remain what offensive scheme was there?

The Texans was running a good deal of the WCO, so their number of passes to the TEs and the RBs, as a percentage is quite high.

The Titans, on the other hand, even though the percentage is about the same, was running the short passing game out of neccessity, to dumb down, one could say.

Isn't it the inability of the QB to find the WRs downfield in a consistent manner.
And to think Moulds wanted out from the Texans because he thought he was open and the passes weren't forthcoming being the #2 WR!:thinking:

76Texan
01-11-2008, 10:58 PM
When balls are going right through your WR hands it is on the WR not the QB. If the ball is there and dropped again you have to look at the tallent. Name one team any one of our WR would have been a #1 on other then the Titans?

I'm not going to hold my breath for a reply ...
The other angle we can look at is this.
The Titans had the same off-season everybody else did.

The Texans were decimated by injuries two years in a row, and now the third. We do not use that as an excuse about any part of our game.

Convenience is for those who never bothers to look in the mirror! :cool:

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 11:46 PM
The other angle we can look at is this.
The Titans had the same off-season everybody else did.

The Texans were decimated by injuries two years in a row, and now the third. We do not use that as an excuse about any part of our game.

Convenience is for those who never bothers to look in the mirror! :cool:

"decimated" ... sorry Patton we are not buying the swamp land today. You make excuses through injury ... come on man how many teams have gone through the season w/out a significant injury.

Again, good teams work through it bad teams get roasted on the grill and called a steak :thinking:

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 11:49 PM
Now that we know the drop balls scenario is not e good excuse, the question remain what offensive scheme was there?

The Texans was running a good deal of the WCO, so their number of passes to the TEs and the RBs, as a percentage is quite high.

The Titans, on the other hand, even though the percentage is about the same, was running the short passing game out of neccessity, to dumb down, one could say.

Isn't it the inability of the QB to find the WRs downfield in a consistent manner.
And to think Moulds wanted out from the Texans because he thought he was open and the passes weren't forthcoming being the #2 WR!:thinking:

You act like you are not a VY jock sniffer but seem to know allot about him. Odd .... because a normal VYS would have watched a few games and seen some of the critical drops ... how many Texans players got hit in the face with a ball that they did not catch this season?

kastofsna
01-11-2008, 11:51 PM
Since so many people are either banned from the TOMB or don't go there I thought I would bring this little thread into the discusion.

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33418

Notice the title.




It has a nice little chart from this site.

stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp


:fans:
the Giants' receivers seem pretty unreliable.

yet Eli Manning manage to carve up the Bucs defense with ease.

Blazing Arrow
01-11-2008, 11:52 PM
the Giants' receivers seem pretty unreliable.

yet Eli Manning manage to carve up the Bucs defense with ease.

Or maybe some of the WR have not got a chance with a crap load of terrible QBs?

Toomer go DLS Spartans!

kastofsna
01-11-2008, 11:55 PM
no clue what ya just said.

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 12:02 AM
no clue what ya just said.

Ok well this is not that hard ...

Collins, Manning, ....

Toomer has had his share of poor QB's, plus he is HS alum.

kastofsna
01-12-2008, 12:05 AM
which explains why Young's receivers drop balls; they have a terrible QB.

it was like that with Vick. when you have an inaccurate QB, you're going to drop the ball more, even when any particular dropped ball is thrown accurately, because as a receiver, you're really not sure what to expect as far as ball placement.

i've said it literally thousands of times: Young = Vick

Specnatz
01-12-2008, 12:40 AM
With a WR core that would barely make the #2 spot on any team. Please mention a couple since you say they exist. While you're at it please mention a team with a QB in his second season that fits that mold.

I was talking with Texan_Bill and he brought up the point of McNabb and Garrard do not have any WR. I know you will bring up the point of Garrard being in the league longer but he has started about as many games as VY. Besides you were all that worried about the receiving core at the start of the season when everyone was ragging on you about it.

76Texan
01-12-2008, 12:40 AM
"decimated" ... sorry Patton we are not buying the swamp land today. You make excuses through injury ... come on man how many teams have gone through the season w/out a significant injury.

Again, good teams work through it bad teams get roasted on the grill and called a steak :thinking:
Well then do not make the excuse for your craps at WRs. Injury or not, you put the same number out there.

If you think your D-line is crap, you WR corp is crap. And you don't have a whole to say about the rest, except for Vince.:thinking:

What else can we say but the Titans a sinking ship. Ya think it can be righted next season? Ima doubting it. :cool:

TexansLucky13
01-12-2008, 12:42 AM
Or maybe some of the WR have not got a chance with a crap load of terrible QBs?

Toomer go DLS Spartans!

Did you go to De La Salle?

76Texan
01-12-2008, 12:55 AM
You act like you are not a VY jock sniffer but seem to know allot about him. Odd .... because a normal VYS would have watched a few games and seen some of the critical drops ... how many Texans players got hit in the face with a ball that they did not catch this season?

No excuse, remember?

But anyhow, we only have one fewer drop ball than your team.
And we have situations where the receivers caught the ball and fumbled, in critical situations no less, TD, redzone.

Vince did not have it any worse outside cirscumstances than our QBs (from what I can heard from you fans and the games I watched, and the networks' guys, etc.)
He's simply worse! It's only true! :devilpig:

ATRAIN
01-12-2008, 07:40 AM
AJ would make plays for 'his highness'..... See Limas Sweed.



No Limas no UT championship......its that simple. Go ahead and bring in the Rose bowl stats, but thats not what I'm referring too!! Does a certain game winning awesome catch in the end zone(horrible pass I might add) ring a bell. If Sweed didn't make that catch UT wouldn't have even been in the Rose bowl.

ATX
01-12-2008, 09:07 AM
No Limas no UT championship......its that simple. Go ahead and bring in the Rose bowl stats, but thats not what I'm referring too!! Does a certain game winning awesome catch in the end zone(horrible pass I might add) ring a bell. If Sweed didn't make that catch UT wouldn't have even been in the Rose bowl.

That is true, but there were so many things that happened that season. That game against Kansas, I believe it was a 4th and forever and VY ran it to make the 1st, then you have that awesome stop by the UT defense in the Rose Bowl on the 4th and 1.......they make that USC probably wins that game. But thats what is so great about football, by far the most complete team game with acts of greatness by individual players.

toronto
01-12-2008, 09:25 AM
Wait, so Leinart has a better QB rating, yards per game, yards per attempt and TD % and he is a bust. So logically...

Considering he has Fitzgerald and Boldin and Edge? He sure as hell better be ahead of VY. On top of that talent, he was given a great QB coach in Wisenhunt too.

I'm clearly the one hand clapper. I'm not arguing with the critcisms of VY. AT ALL. I think there is a boatload of improvement that needs to come from him within. That said, to call Justin Gage, Roydell Williams, Bo Scaife, Eric Moulds (and not the 2001 version, this guy was cooked and all Texan fans know that) etc? C'mon.

Overalls
01-12-2008, 09:25 AM
"decimated" ... sorry Patton we are not buying the swamp land today. You make excuses through injury ... come on man how many teams have gone through the season w/out a significant injury.

Again, good teams work through it bad teams get roasted on the grill and called a steak :thinking:

Sorry Flaming Sparrow, around here too many people don't understand that the only year injuries played a part in games is 2004 when the Texans swept the ICOU because the ICOU were "decimated" because of injuries.

As has been argued at your home board.

:fans:

ATRAIN
01-12-2008, 09:25 AM
That is true, but there were so many things that happened that season. That game against Kansas, I believe it was a 4th and forever and VY ran it to make the 1st, then you have that awesome stop by the UT defense in the Rose Bowl on the 4th and 1.......they make that USC probably wins that game. But thats what is so great about football, by far the most complete team game with acts of greatness by individual players.



What you say about the Rose bowl is true but who gets all the credit on the highlights......Mr Overrated himself.

ATX
01-12-2008, 09:28 AM
What you say about the Rose bowl is true but who gets all the credit on the highlights......Mr Overrated himself.

Well I can't lie, that was one of the greatest performances by a player in the history of college football.

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 12:52 PM
Did you go to De La Salle?

Yes

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 12:55 PM
No excuse, remember?

But anyhow, we only have one fewer drop ball than your team.
And we have situations where the receivers caught the ball and fumbled, in critical situations no less, TD, redzone.

Vince did not have it any worse outside cirscumstances than our QBs (from what I can heard from you fans and the games I watched, and the networks' guys, etc.)
He's simply worse! It's only true! :devilpig:

We also had 85 less pass attempts then the Texans. Based on % that is a huge difference.

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 12:58 PM
Sorry Flaming Sparrow, around here too many people don't understand that the only year injuries played a part in games is 2004 when the Texans swept the ICOU because the ICOU were "decimated" because of injuries.

As has been argued at your home board.

:fans:

Who is making an excuse for injuries? I certainly am not. And how many other wins have the Texans had on the Titans since or prior? Yeah that is a goose egg there Underoos.

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 01:05 PM
Well then do not make the excuse for your craps at WRs. Injury or not, you put the same number out there.

If you think your D-line is crap, you WR corp is crap. And you don't have a whole to say about the rest, except for Vince.:thinking:

What else can we say but the Titans a sinking ship. Ya think it can be righted next season? Ima doubting it. :cool:

I never said our D line is crap. I said AH needs to work on his commitment to the game and the effort he puts out. If he is on the field everything fits into place. It is the times he sits on the ground or in critical plays when he takes himself out because he is winded. Elite player do not do that. And you can always expect AH to miss at least 3 games a season.

Our WR core has been poor for two season. We have made adjustments but the base group is not maturing at any level. Excuses come form people saying we were good until X Y Z .. in our case it is not an excuse it is just a matter of poor planning and not enough tallent avalible to hire that would be willing to come to Tenn.

Again I make no excuses for this season we made the playoffs. Teams that are 8-8 and did not make the playoffs are the ones who look to point fingures.

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 01:10 PM
I was talking with Texan_Bill and he brought up the point of McNabb and Garrard do not have any WR. I know you will bring up the point of Garrard being in the league longer but he has started about as many games as VY. Besides you were all that worried about the receiving core at the start of the season when everyone was ragging on you about it.


McNabb has always had Westbrook and had Stallworth and TO at points in his career. Don't act like the guy has been scraping the barrel.

Garrard had a decent season but as you pointed out he has been in the game longer and though he was not playing I would imagine he was not busting out his PSP on the sideline. Since when do the Titans have FT and MJD in the backfield to support the pass game?

Blazing Arrow
01-12-2008, 01:15 PM
Glad to see that you still remember what you said before! http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

We all overstate certain things to get on the other's nerves is all.

But, back to the WR question, besides Brady in his second and third year, there was also Kyle Boller who didn't really have good WRs in his first couple of years but managed 10 & 9 wins.

Favre had Sharpe but no #2 WR to speak of.

Jim Harbaugh of the Bears managed 11 wins in 91 with no WR to speak of.

To name a few. :specnatz:

You are talking the best defense in NFL history and a top 10 D historically. Yes at times Defense wins championships even with no O.

I guess if you want to make a comparison between Brady or Favre and Young you can but I am not sure it holds water. Them being statistically the best QB in NFL history and arguably the best QB playing in the game right now and probably a top 5 ever to play. Yes I will give you that Young will probably never be a top 10 best ever QB to play. :thumbup

Silver Oak
01-12-2008, 02:16 PM
McNabb has always had Westbrook and had Stallworth and TO at points in his career. Don't act like the guy has been scraping the barrel.

Garrard had a decent season but as you pointed out he has been in the game longer and though he was not playing I would imagine he was not busting out his PSP on the sideline. Since when do the Titans have FT and MJD in the backfield to support the pass game?


titans could have selected Jones-Drew, but the braintrust went with LenWhale instead.

Napa Auto Parts
01-12-2008, 03:32 PM
Never in my wildest dream could i have imagine that VY would lead the Titans to a playoff appearance:panic:

Bulluck53
01-12-2008, 11:49 PM
The bias in this thread is overwhelming.

AnthonyE
01-12-2008, 11:54 PM
The bias in this thread is overwhelming.

Your nuts.

This thread is 100% neutral. :shades:

76Texan
01-13-2008, 01:28 AM
You are talking the best defense in NFL history and a top 10 D historically. Yes at times Defense wins championships even with no O.

I guess if you want to make a comparison between Brady or Favre and Young you can but I am not sure it holds water. Them being statistically the best QB in NFL history and arguably the best QB playing in the game right now and probably a top 5 ever to play. Yes I will give you that Young will probably never be a top 10 best ever QB to play. :thumbup
Pardon me, you were asking about comparative QBs in their 1st and 2nd year, without a decent #2 WR, and I was giving you those scenarios.
I don't even dream of comparing VY with them this year, that would have been oh so very foolish of me dontcha think?

On the other hand, I'd like to restate that each team is allowed a definite number on their roster, and a definite number suited up for each game.
You'd think that a defense like the Titans coming in, solid enough that what they need to concentrate on is to add the pieces on offense to complement "the greatest QB ever walks the NFL fields".

All these excuses about the lack of talent around tells me that ya need to fire the FOs.

Now, either your FOs did a bad job, or your QB couldn't make use of the players around him, you tell me.

Heck, ya supposed to have fewer holes to fill, and now you want to make excuses that there are holes VY can't plug? :thinking:

TexansLucky13
01-13-2008, 04:12 AM
Yes

My roommate went to DLS. Class of '06. Says he knew Maurice Drew back in the day.

When did you grad?

Second Honeymoon
01-13-2008, 01:04 PM
titans could have selected Jones-Drew, but the braintrust went with LenWhale instead.

LenWhale!! dude, that is hilarious. LenWhale White.

Specnatz
01-13-2008, 03:35 PM
McNabb has always had Westbrook and had Stallworth and TO at points in his career. Don't act like the guy has been scraping the barrel.

Garrard had a decent season but as you pointed out he has been in the game longer and though he was not playing I would imagine he was not busting out his PSP on the sideline. Since when do the Titans have FT and MJD in the backfield to support the pass game?

First of all isn't the run game a strength of the titans? Oh thats right it is but since it is not a certain runnback, hmmm ok gotcha.

Yes McNabb had Stallworth last year and the year and a half before that he had the big baby. So whom did he have previously before that? Westbroke, whom no one at that time thought he was an every down back.

Your arguement is very weak because now it is the complete opposite of what you were saying at the beginning of the season. You can not have your arguement both ways.

Honoring Earl 34
01-13-2008, 03:51 PM
At the end of the day ... guess what ... VY is a 2nd year QB whom the jury is still out on . He is not the 2nd coming of John Elway like so many Titan fans wanted you to believe .

Texan_Bill
01-14-2008, 07:56 AM
McNabb has always had Westbrook and had Stallworth and TO at points in his career. Don't act like the guy has been scraping the barrel.

Garrard had a decent season but as you pointed out he has been in the game longer and though he was not playing I would imagine he was not busting out his PSP on the sideline. Since when do the Titans have FT and MJD in the backfield to support the pass game?

False... McNabb just completed his 9th season. Westbrook his 6th... Thats three years without Westbrook... (Do you even look stuff up or just spew diarhea of the keyboard?) TO played two season (but only 21 games) and Stallworth 1 season (11 games).

Wah.. wah.. wah... Garrard and Young BOTH have 29 starts... Same freakin' difference.

No one said the Titans had MJD or FT... All that was said is that the Titans have a really good running game - duh......as do the Jaguars..

Face it.... You are being proved wrong at every turn. Quit being a douche - sack up and take you medicine like a man.... -Or- is that the problem???


Tell me what about your question isn't answered above and yes Garrad had a few seasons on the bench - BUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF CAREER STARTS AS 'his highness' HAD - with arguably worse receiveers!!!!! Well except for the fact the Garrad made them better players Saturday night...

With a WR core that would barely make the #2 spot on any team. Please mention a couple since you say they exist. While you're at it please mention a team with a QB in his second season that fits that mold.

Texan_Bill
01-14-2008, 07:59 AM
The bias in this thread is overwhelming.

Not bias........ FACT.

Whenever Flaming Sparrow sacks up and admits that VY 'ain't all that' and quits with the David Carr(esque) arguments, I'm sure this thread will settle down...

Blazing Arrow
01-14-2008, 11:12 AM
My roommate went to DLS. Class of '06. Says he knew Maurice Drew back in the day.

When did you grad?

'95

I was a Freshman when Toomer was a SR. and a SR. when DJ Williams was a freshman. '95 we were ESPN National Champions :cool:

BTW the loss my freshman year ended a record breaking win streak for the entire US ... my SR. we broke that record. :splits:

Blazing Arrow
01-14-2008, 11:16 AM
On the other hand, I'd like to restate that each team is allowed a definite number on their roster, and a definite number suited up for each game.
You'd think that a defense like the Titans coming in, solid enough that what they need to concentrate on is to add the pieces on offense to complement "the greatest QB ever walks the NFL fields".

All these excuses about the lack of talent around tells me that ya need to fire the FOs.

Now, either your FOs did a bad job, or your QB couldn't make use of the players around him, you tell me.

Heck, ya supposed to have fewer holes to fill, and now you want to make excuses that there are holes VY can't plug? :thinking:

We brought in Molds, Offered money to stallworth, brought in gage, offered money to Keyshawn. We can not make players come to the team. And we were the #32 ranked D the previos season and losing our best DB for the season. The FO addressed what was needed. I do would not imagine anyone expected our WR play to be that bad.

The FO did what they needed to do and we made the playoffs and improved +2 wins. I would say that is about all you can ask of a new GM.

Blazing Arrow
01-14-2008, 11:47 AM
False... McNabb just completed his 9th season. Westbrook his 6th... Thats three years without Westbrook... (Do you even look stuff up or just spew diarhea of the keyboard?) TO played two season (but only 21 games) and Stallworth 1 season (11 games).

So you agree that these players were on the team and McNabb benefited from them? Ok ....

Wah.. wah.. wah... Garrard and Young BOTH have 29 starts... Same freakin' difference.

And more time under his belt to absorbe the game. Why do you think most QB sit on the bench during there first season. Are you now telling me that those games count for nothing. Why not just start the rookie QB game one then? That is what you are trying to argue here.

No one said the Titans had MJD or FT... All that was said is that the Titans have a really good running game - duh......as do the Jaguars..

Good backs open up the passing game. Pretty simple. Ask Rivers. The Titans used a scheme much like Denver was running. It helped our back gain yards. Look at the YPC avereage. LW had a 3.7 as our main back and the only thing working in our O that is not good enough. It was mainly caused by Young's inability to move the ball in the air and his WR dropping balls. Plus Fisher loves to control the clock and pound D's. Typical Fisher ball.

Face it.... You are being proved wrong at every turn. Quit being a douche - sack up and take you medicine like a man.... -Or- is that the problem???

Wow now you attack me on a personal level. You are better then that Bill. When in the last few pages have I come in and said Young is a god? I mentioned he needs some help out there. I am sure his injury did not help at all. But TD/INT ratio speaks for itself. He needs to improve. I think a healthy Young opens up more opportunities for himself and the team with his legs. He lost that weapon this season. If you take one of the dimensions of a player away when there big thing is a two dimensional performance one would expect a decline in stats. Since when are stats the only marker for a good player? I could careless what he does on 1st and 2nd as long as when it counts he is getting us firsts. We did not have the top FG kicker in the league because we were playing 3 and outs on every drive. Think about it. Our issue was in the red zone. Some of it Young, some of it play call, some of it WR. It is a team effort that should have been coached better in the red zone IMO.

Texan_Bill
01-14-2008, 12:10 PM
So you agree that these players were on the team and McNabb benefited from them? Ok ....

Stay with me here........ NOT IN McNABB'S FIRST TWO SEASONS!!

McNabb in his first two seasons (combined) threw for 4500; 29 TD's and 20 INT's...

And more time under his belt to absorbe the game. Why do you think most QB sit on the bench during there first season. Are you now telling me that those games count for nothing. Why not just start the rookie QB game one then? That is what you are trying to argue here.


You're worse than a little girl.. So, I will concede that the Titans and VY exist in a vacuum. No other team and player HAVE EVER BEEN IN SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES AS TO THE 2007 TITANS.... pfffft please... I think 99% of the people on this board are laughing at you on this point..

Good backs open up the passing game. Pretty simple. Ask Rivers. The Titans used a scheme much like Denver was running. It helped our back gain yards. Look at the YPC avereage. LW had a 3.7 as our main back and the only thing working in our O that is not good enough. It was mainly caused by Young's inability to move the ball in the air and his WR dropping balls. Plus Fisher loves to control the clock and pound D's. Typical Fisher ball.


What's your point here??!?! At the end of the day, Tennessee ranked 5th overall in rushing. It doesn't matter what scheme you use - whatever.... 5th is pretty darn good. PERIOD!!!!

Again with the wide receiver BS... That has been disproven time and time again in this thread (and my post above). Funny how Jabar Gaffney couldn't hold on to the ball when Carr was throwing it to him, but suddenly got hands last season.... :gun:

Finally you said it... (see bolded, underlined sentence)....


Wow now you attack me on a personal level.

First.... I did NOT attack you. I asked you to quit acting like a douche - but whatever....

Had you not asked Texans fans to eat crow prior to the San Diego game (if Tennessee won) -or- at least would have eaten your own dose of crow after the San Diego game AND not continually get worse and worse with your trolling efforts AND admit that IT IS not just the wide receivers "dropping balls" AND that the guy throwing (or attempting to throw the ball) to them is a part of the problem.... I would not have turned ugly....

Until you come correct, I will treat you as I would any other troll...

Blazing Arrow
01-14-2008, 12:51 PM
Stay with me here........ NOT IN McNABB'S FIRST TWO SEASONS!!

McNabb in his first two seasons (combined) threw for 4500; 29 TD's and 20 INT's...

You're worse than a little girl.. So, I will concede that the Titans and VY exist in a vacuum. No other team and player HAVE EVER BEEN IN SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES AS TO THE 2007 TITANS.... pfffft please... I think 99% of the people on this board are laughing at you on this point..

Now you are so full of rage you are not reading the comments. I merely pointed out Garrard has had more opportunities to study the game at the NFL level then Young has because of his time in the league. Are you arguing that?

What's your point here??!?! At the end of the day, Tennessee ranked 5th overall in rushing. It doesn't matter what scheme you use - whatever.... 5th is pretty darn good. PERIOD!!!!

Compare the number of attempts vs yards gained shows that all we were doing was running. It is not hard to be a top running team when you do not even try to pass.

Again with the wide receiver BS... That has been disproven time and time again in this thread (and my post above). Funny how Jabar Gaffney couldn't hold on to the ball when Carr was throwing it to him, but suddenly got hands last season.... :gun:

Again it is “proven” with skewed stats. Compare the drops per pass attempt and the number comes up a little more obvious. I know using a comparison of this nature and not just raw stats might be hard but it is the way you actually can evaluate the numbers correctly. Weighted averages and all of that.


First.... I did NOT attack you. I asked you to quit acting like a douche - but whatever....

Had you not asked Texans fans to eat crow prior to the San Diego game (if Tennessee won) -or- at least would have eaten your own dose of crow after the San Diego game AND not continually get worse and worse with your trolling efforts AND admit that IT IS not just the wide receivers "dropping balls" AND that the guy throwing (or attempting to throw the ball) to them is a part of the problem.... I would not have turned ugly....

Until you come correct, I will treat you as I would any other troll...

Asked Texans fans to eat crow? I made a comment to all of the people posting that we were guaranteed to lose vs SD that it is a nice way to open up a can of crow and that since every analyst had us losing the game we had nothing to really lose in the saving face category but I believe the only team who can serve up crow is the winner and the only one who should be eating it is the loser from the winning team.

But TD/INT ratio speaks for itself. He needs to improve.

Our issue was in the red zone. Some of it Young, some of it play call, some of it WR. It is a team effort that should have been coached better in the red zone IMO.

Highlighted some of the actuall comments I have made regarding Young. Might want to actually read them instead of accusing me of trying to dodge Young's. Obviously I recognize that he needs to improve. I am just suggesting that with a better WR core and TEs who can actually help the team he might have done better. Nothing more nothing less.

Texans_Chick
01-14-2008, 01:53 PM
We brought in Molds, Offered money to stallworth, brought in gage, offered money to Keyshawn. We can not make players come to the team. And we were the #32 ranked D the previos season and losing our best DB for the season. The FO addressed what was needed. I do would not imagine anyone expected our WR play to be that bad.

The FO did what they needed to do and we made the playoffs and improved +2 wins. I would say that is about all you can ask of a new GM.

Unless Young gets better pronto, you may have a consistent problem attracting WRs. A great QB can make a receiver look better, and a quarterback who has problems being consistent with reading defenses and making appropriate throws can kill a receivers' career. You can call that the Jabar Gaffney rule.

There are few WRs who are so good that they can make the pro bowl no matter who is throwing them the ball. This is the Andre Johnson correllary to the Jabar Gaffney rule.

Fisher has never been a chuck it down the field type, and that tendency is exacerbated by Young as QB right now. Your offseason should be interesting.

Second Honeymoon
01-14-2008, 02:05 PM
Unless Young gets better pronto, you may have a consistent problem attracting WRs. A great QB can make a receiver look better, and a quarterback who has problems being consistent with reading defenses and making appropriate throws can kill a receivers' career. You can call that the Jabar Gaffney rule.

There are few WRs who are so good that they can make the pro bowl no matter who is throwing them the ball. This is the Andre Johnson correllary to the Jabar Gaffney rule.

Fisher has never been a chuck it down the field type, and that tendency is exacerbated by Young as QB right now. Your offseason should be interesting.

haha good stuff. whether anti-vy or not, everyone agrees that VY has to improve in a lot of areas to be considered a top quarterback. last year he looked to be a lock to get there but with this season's loss of that elusiveness and general athleticism for one reason or another, its about 50/50 on him ever being one of the top QBs in the game.

ChildressTitanMan
01-15-2008, 04:57 AM
Pardon me, you were asking about comparative QBs in their 1st and 2nd year, without a decent #2 WR, and I was giving you those scenarios.
I don't even dream of comparing VY with them this year, that would have been oh so very foolish of me dontcha think?

On the other hand, I'd like to restate that each team is allowed a definite number on their roster, and a definite number suited up for each game.
You'd think that a defense like the Titans coming in, solid enough that what they need to concentrate on is to add the pieces on offense to complement "the greatest QB ever walks the NFL fields".

All these excuses about the lack of talent around tells me that ya need to fire the FOs.

Now, either your FOs did a bad job, or your QB couldn't make use of the players around him, you tell me.

Heck, ya supposed to have fewer holes to fill, and now you want to make excuses that there are holes VY can't plug? :thinking:

You can't be serious man. We had holes all over the roster,our 06' season we over achieved. The main priority this year was to fix the biggest problem & that was the D.

Fortunately that worked out & we now have a shot at adding some play makers to help VY. Even with Carr at the helm the Texans at least had Johnson who could stretch the field.

We got unlucky with spending a lot of money on David Givens.He might never play again his knee is so bad. The rest of our WR's are 3rd string at best. Moulds & Gage have decent hands but both are slow.

Roydell Williams & Brandon Jones are both bad stone handed WR's who will make the impressive catch on a bad throw & then drop the next 3 balls that are on the money.

VY is immature & impatient but did make progress.Last year & in camp his short throws were floaters with no zip on them & hung in the air begging to be picked off. He's fixed that & is now able to make a check down on every play.

Not enough that he's reading the whole field & going through all his reads but he's doing it where last year he would he seen his first guy wasn't open & tried to run it. He still has a heck of a long way to go to be a good QB but in no way is he a bust.

He will always be a smack target for Texans fans & understandably so.To say that the Titans won't attract decent FA WR's because VY is so bad is a funny jibe I'll admit but the truth is FA want money first & to be on a winning team a close 2nd. If a guy is there & we pay market value we'll get him,the real issue will be if it's fiscally responsible to do so.

Fisher has promised that this off season we'll be out to get play makers who can give us TD's.That can only help Young.

aj.
01-15-2008, 05:52 AM
Noteworthy that in just a year he went from the savior and this great leader who made everyone around him better, to immature and impatient, lacking grasp of the playbook and needing playmakers around him. Where's the improvement again?

ChildressTitanMan
01-15-2008, 07:17 AM
Nice set of blinkers you have there buddy :whip:

Double Barrel
01-15-2008, 12:10 PM
Nice set of blinkers you have there buddy :whip:

Is he making a right hand turn or left? :um:

Texan_Bill
01-15-2008, 02:40 PM
Vince Young-------------------> Coach Killer






:stirpot:

76Texan
01-15-2008, 02:45 PM
Vince Young-------------------> Coach Killer

:stirpot:http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

76Texan
01-15-2008, 02:53 PM
We got unlucky with spending a lot of money on David Givens.He might never play again his knee is so bad. The rest of our WR's are 3rd string at best. Moulds & Gage have decent hands but both are slow.

Roydell Williams & Brandon Jones are both bad stone handed WR's who will make the impressive catch on a bad throw & then drop the next 3 balls that are on the money.

http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33418

Didn't you read on titansonline that the Tacks only had 16 drops, among the fewest in the NFL in both numbers and percentage per pass attempts?
http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Blazing Arrow
01-15-2008, 05:07 PM
Vince Young-------------------> Coach Killer






:stirpot:

Hey he has only killed one .... so far! :)

ChildressTitanMan
01-16-2008, 08:18 AM
http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33418

Didn't you read on titansonline that the Tacks only had 16 drops, among the fewest in the NFL in both numbers and percentage per pass attempts?
http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

I've never visited the tomb since they banned Overalls.That was the last straw!
Seriously I never go there because it's an over moderated club for homers.

As for the 16 drops,I can assure that is a crock.Williams,Jones & Davis each dropped in every game they played.

HOU-TEX
01-16-2008, 10:39 AM
I've never visited the tomb since they banned Overalls.That was the last straw!
Seriously I never go there because it's an over moderated club for homers.

As for the 16 drops,I can assure that is a crock.Williams,Jones & Davis each dropped in every game they played.

It must be. I signed up two years ago and have yet to be approved.:elle:

Texan_Bill
01-16-2008, 10:50 AM
It must be. I signed up two years ago and have yet to be approved.:elle:

LMAO... Me neither.... but also I can't get my account on gotitans.com activated either. My user name shows up - but I can't post.. :bat:

HOU-TEX
01-16-2008, 11:05 AM
LMAO... Me neither.... but also I can't get my account on gotitans.com activated either. My user name shows up - but I can't post.. :bat:

That's odd.....eh, it's probably a good thing. Very rarely do I notice a tit fan want to talk football anyways.

Texan_Bill
01-16-2008, 11:06 AM
As for the 16 drops,I can assure that is a crock.Williams,Jones & Davis each dropped in every game they played.

I can't say how Tennessee as a team faired in drop passes, but they don't have one receiver in the top 16:

Passes Dropped


Rank Name Team ......................Games..Drops
T-1 Dallas Clark IND .....................15..... 12
T-1 Braylon Edwards CLE.............. 16..... 12
3 Randy Moss NE......................... 16...... 9
T-4 Brandon Marshall DEN............. 16...... 8
T-4 Kellen Winslow CLE.................16...... 8
T-6 Marty Booker MIA ..................15...... 7
T-6 Ronald Curry OAK.................. 16....... 7
T-6 Anthony Gonzalez IND ............13....... 7
T-6 T.J. Houshmandzadeh CIN....... 16....... 7
T-6 Chad Johnson CIN.................. 16...... 7
T-11 Jerricho Cotchery NYJ............15...... 6
T-11 Matt Jones JAC.................... 12....... 6
T-11 Kenton Keith IND.................. 16...... 6
T-11 Derrick Mason BAL................ 16 ......6
T-11 Reggie Wayne IND................ 16...... 6
T-16 Dwayne Bowe KC.................. 16..... 5
T-16 Owen Daniels HOU................ 16...... 5
T-16 Devard Darling BAL............... 16....... 5
T-16 Najeh Davenport PIT............. 15...... 5
T-16 Lee Evans BUF..................... 16...... 5
T-16 Antonio Gates SD................. 16...... 5
T-16 Tony Gonzalez KC .................16...... 5
T-16 Joe Jurevicius CLE .................16...... 5
T-16 Marcedes Lewis JAC.............. 16....... 5
T-16 Brad Smith NYJ ....................16 .......5
T-16 Donte' Stallworth NE............. 16....... 5
T-16 Hines Ward PIT.................... 13 .......5
T-16 Leon Washington NYJ............ 16 .......5


I don't like seeing OD on that list though....

Overalls
01-16-2008, 05:09 PM
Billy Volek was better in the playoffs than Vick Jr and the ICOU got rid of him.

Specnatz
01-16-2008, 05:11 PM
I can't say how Tennessee as a team faired in drop passes, but they don't have one receiver in the top 16:



I don't like seeing OD on that list though....

But Bill it is a media biased by the Washinton Post to make up things about the Titans. It is everyone else fault not the fairy princess's fault.

Blazing Arrow
01-16-2008, 05:51 PM
But Bill it is a media biased by the Washinton Post to make up things about the Titans. It is everyone else fault not the fairy princess's fault.

People do not make up things about the Titans they just do not say anything at all.

WesmanTexanfan
01-16-2008, 06:06 PM
im Soo Sick Of Seeing This Damn Thread!!!!

Texan_Bill
01-16-2008, 06:07 PM
People do not make up things about the Titans they just do not say anything at all.

Maybe Titans fans should abide by that old addage too...

Better to remain silent and thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt...

76Texan
01-16-2008, 06:34 PM
Maybe Titans fans should abide by that old addage too...

Better to remain silent and thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt...
http://texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Blazing Arrow
01-16-2008, 06:41 PM
im Soo Sick Of Seeing This Damn Thread!!!!

I said that 10+ pages ago ... though now I just like to drop in on it to keep it going. :pirate:

WesmanTexanfan
01-16-2008, 06:42 PM
I said that 10+ pages ago ... though now I just like to drop in on it to keep it going. :pirate:

ha....lol.... its just the title that gets to me...

eriadoc
01-16-2008, 06:43 PM
The Jags led the league in drops this year, according to the announcers during the Pats-Jags game. For whatever that's worth.

ChildressTitanMan
01-16-2008, 08:20 PM
The Jags led the league in drops this year, according to the announcers during the Pats-Jags game. For whatever that's worth.

I can actually believe that.That's a sorry bunch of #1 picks they have over there.

Specnatz
01-17-2008, 08:58 AM
The Jags led the league in drops this year, according to the announcers during the Pats-Jags game. For whatever that's worth.

1 New York Giants 42
2 New Orleans Saints 41
3 Chicago Bears 40
4 Indianapolis Colts 38
5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 35
6 Cleveland Browns 33
7 New England Patriots 32
8 San Francisco 49ers 32
9 Carolina Panthers 32
10 Detroit Lions 30
11 St. Louis Rams 30
12 Kansas City Chiefs 29
13 Miami Dolphins 29
14 Arizona Cardinals 29
15 Washington Redskins 29
16 Atlanta Falcons 28
17 Dallas Cowboys 27
18 Minnesota Vikings 27
19 Philadelphia Eagles 26
20 Baltimore Ravens 26
21 Denver Broncos 25
22 New York Jets 24
23 Seattle Seahawks 24
24 Jacksonville Jaguars 24
25 Cincinnati Bengals 23
26 Pittsburgh Steelers 21
27 Green Bay Packers 20
28 Oakland Raiders 20
29 Buffalo Bills 17
30 Tennessee Titans 16
31 San Diego Chargers 16
32 Houston Texans 15

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

Got to love announcers who are full of crap and make more up as they go.

WOW I just realized we were dead freakin last. Not bad.

eriadoc
01-17-2008, 09:04 AM
1 New York Giants 42
2 New Orleans Saints 41
3 Chicago Bears 40
4 Indianapolis Colts 38
5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 35
6 Cleveland Browns 33
7 New England Patriots 32
8 San Francisco 49ers 32
9 Carolina Panthers 32
10 Detroit Lions 30
11 St. Louis Rams 30
12 Kansas City Chiefs 29
13 Miami Dolphins 29
14 Arizona Cardinals 29
15 Washington Redskins 29
16 Atlanta Falcons 28
17 Dallas Cowboys 27
18 Minnesota Vikings 27
19 Philadelphia Eagles 26
20 Baltimore Ravens 26
21 Denver Broncos 25
22 New York Jets 24
23 Seattle Seahawks 24
24 Jacksonville Jaguars 24
25 Cincinnati Bengals 23
26 Pittsburgh Steelers 21
27 Green Bay Packers 20
28 Oakland Raiders 20
29 Buffalo Bills 17
30 Tennessee Titans 16
31 San Diego Chargers 16
32 Houston Texans 15

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

Got to love announcers who are full of crap and make more up as they go.

WOW I just realized we were dead freakin last. Not bad.

Thanks for the info! Wait .... you mean the Titans WRs were among the best at holding onto the ball? Wow. As a QB, you'd have to love that, right? ;)

HOU-TEX
01-17-2008, 09:10 AM
Thanks for the info! Wait .... you mean the Titans WRs were among the best at holding onto the ball? Wow. As a QB, you'd have to love that, right? ;)

Touche'

Hopefully that'll clear up some of the VY sack groveling we're seeing from Blazing Homo.

:texflag:

Texan_Bill
01-17-2008, 09:24 AM
http://thecaptainsdeck.net/Smileys/default/bwahaharoll.gif http://thecaptainsdeck.net/Smileys/default/bwahaharoll.gif http://thecaptainsdeck.net/Smileys/default/bwahaharoll.gif



http://thecaptainsdeck.net/Smileys/default/owned2.gif

BigBull17
01-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Good thing we didnt draft that mutt last year. He is awful. I just dont see the upside in his greatness. Never have. He will always be a average to below average QB. Once they bite the bullet, he will make an excellent slot RB...

Texans_Chick
01-17-2008, 01:35 PM
Good thing we didnt draft that mutt last year. He is awful. I just dont see the upside in his greatness. Never have. He will always be a average to below average QB. Once they bite the bullet, he will make an excellent slot RB...

Like all prospects, he has good and bad points. The difficult thing with him was always going to be what scheme to put around him because his skill sets are very different. Once you are putting experimental schemes out there, you don't know what the results are going to be.

Ugly words in TN's papers (http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/SPORTS01/801170373/1027):

ESPN's Merril Hoge, who's been mostly critical of Young, doesn't think a change in offensive coordinator is going to fix anything with the Titans offense, which ranked 21st overall this season, 27th in passing.

"What they've done is the first indicator of what happens when you make a mistake with the quarterback you drafted in the first round and he starts to erode your organization,'' Hoge said. "Norm Chow was not the problem. He did what his quarterback was capable of doing, which is not very much. And it is much easier to fire the offensive coordinator than to get rid of your quarterback.

"If it's your quarterback you're saying 'We made a mistake.' Now you get rid of the offensive coordinator and say the reason he is not playing well is because of him. What you're doing is buying yourself another year and you avoid the public relations hit of actually fessing up and admitting 'We screwed up.' ''

Because of Young's limitations, Hoge said, Heimerdinger would not have the freedom of changing game plans each week like he's been able to do with Cutler. He said with 28 starts under his belt, it's up to Young to prove he's a capable NFL quarterback.

"I don't know what coach you fire next, but at some point you have to face the music," Hoge said. "You have a great athlete back there, but you don't have a great quarterback no matter who the coordinator is. One day they'll wake up to that.''

Lots of talk about how Young was coddled, and how Heimerdinger is going to change that.

It will be interesting how that works. University of Texas football has been sort of a upbeat positive insulated place that doesn't really prepare their athletes for * chewing. Mack Brown was very protective of his players. Eventually, they won with Young because they let "Vince be Vince."

kastofsna
01-17-2008, 02:39 PM
for the record, there's a lot more to being a bad receiver than dropping passes.

Texan_Bill
01-17-2008, 02:46 PM
for the record, there's a lot more to being a bad receiver than dropping passes.

While thats more than stating the obvious, read Arrow's post(s) - it was ''drops''... ''drops'' and more ''drops''....

eriadoc
01-17-2008, 03:37 PM
"What they've done is the first indicator of what happens when you make a mistake with the quarterback you drafted in the first round and he starts to erode your organization,'' Hoge said. "(Chris Palmer) was not the problem. He did what (Carr) was capable of doing, which is not very much. And it is much easier to fire the offensive coordinator than to get rid of your quarterback.

Hoge's quote edited for clarity.

Double Barrel
01-17-2008, 03:55 PM
"What they've done is the first indicator of what happens when you make a mistake with the quarterback you drafted in the first round and he starts to erode your organization,'' Hoge said. "(Chris Palmer) was not the problem. He did what (Carr) was capable of doing, which is not very much. And it is much easier to fire the offensive coordinator than to get rid of your quarterback.

Hoge's quote edited for clarity.

Dude, I was so going there, as well! Great minds, 'eh? :cowboy1:

Pantherstang84
01-17-2008, 04:15 PM
Dude, I was so going there, as well! Great minds, 'eh? :cowboy1:

The parallels are uncanny aren't they?

Overalls
01-17-2008, 06:15 PM
Well Carr has a better arm.

Spled
01-17-2008, 06:23 PM
Vince is not as good as his man love society in Austin thinks, but he's not as bad as Hoge says either. He's been in the league 2 years and he's been to the playoffs twice. He manages the offense well, he moves the chains and he finds a way to make big plays in the 4th quarter. There's a lot of quarterbacks with prettier stats who find a way to lose. I think the big question is whether he'll improve enough to take a team to the Superbowl.

Overalls
01-17-2008, 06:32 PM
Vince is not as good as his man love society in Austin thinks, but he's not as bad as Hoge says either. He's been in the league 2 years and he's been to the playoffs twice. He manages the offense well, he moves the chains and he finds a way to make big plays in the 4th quarter. There's a lot of quarterbacks with prettier stats who find a way to lose. I think the big question is whether he'll improve enough to take a team to the Superbowl.

He has been to the playoffs once.

LonerATO
01-17-2008, 06:33 PM
Please last year it was Pacman and the d carrying that team to almost reaching the playoffs and this year Chow showed what that team could do with Collins at qb. Collins was another reason for them making to the playoffs this year.

axman40
01-17-2008, 06:35 PM
Vince is not as good as his man love society in Austin thinks, but he's not as bad as Hoge says either. He's been in the league 2 years and he's been to the playoffs twice. He manages the offense well, he moves the chains and he finds a way to make big plays in the 4th quarter. There's a lot of quarterbacks with prettier stats who find a way to lose. I think the big question is whether he'll improve enough to take a team to the Superbowl.
WRONG! he has been in the playoffs once!Or are you from the future quick who wins the Super Bowl in 2009! What year does the Texans win ?
:fans:

Spled
01-17-2008, 06:48 PM
I stand corrected, but he did go 8-5 as a rookie.

ATX
01-17-2008, 07:09 PM
I stand corrected, but he did go 8-5 as a rookie.

Why do people say this. His team went 8-5 when he was playing......only pitchers get to use the W-L record, not QB's. Sure they take all the credit for wins and losses, but in the end, football is the ultimate team game.

Texan_Bill
01-18-2008, 08:11 AM
Why do people say this. His team went 8-5 when he was playing......only pitchers get to use the W-L record, not QB's. Sure they take all the credit for wins and losses, but in the end, football is the ultimate team game.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!


Coach Fisher, the defense, running game and special teams had nothing to do with the wins... :rolleyes:

chicagotexan2
01-18-2008, 08:16 AM
THANK YOU!!!!!!!


Coach Fisher, the defense, running game and special teams had nothing to do with the wins... :rolleyes:

They are only there to meet the 11 man lminimum. If he wanted to he could pass to himself then block for himself then catch it himself. Am I the only one that sees his interceptions as everyone elses fault but his? If you blame it on him that's not fair. (Lips are quivering and eyes are starting to water). That's my teammate. (tears are really flowing now). That's my quarterback.

eriadoc
01-18-2008, 08:59 AM
I stand corrected, but he did go 8-5 as a rookie.

So did the backup long snapper's assistant coach.

Blazing Arrow
01-18-2008, 10:29 AM
THANK YOU!!!!!!!


Coach Fisher, the defense, running game and special teams had nothing to do with the wins... :rolleyes:

You are talking about a 32nd ranked D at the time ... I know one OT game that lies on his sholders. :thinking: now who was it against again?

Double Barrel
01-18-2008, 10:35 AM
He has been to the playoffs once.

0-1...but, VY is a winner. Unfortunately, he is surrounded by losers. :thinking:

Blazing Arrow
01-18-2008, 10:40 AM
0-1...but, VY is a winner. Unfortunately, he is surrounded by losers. :thinking:

Is one more then zero? When pointing a finger remember 3 point back at you.

Double Barrel
01-18-2008, 10:49 AM
Is one more then zero? When pointing a finger remember 3 point back at you.

So your best defense of your QB is to change the subject? :um:

This is a "Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL" thread, so let's keep it on topic, shall we? Your constant attempts at straw man argument diversions not withstanding.

Texan_Bill
01-18-2008, 11:00 AM
You are talking about a 32nd ranked D at the time ... I know one OT game that lies on his sholders. :thinking: now who was it against again?

Scenario:
"x" team gets the ball on their own 10 yard line...Proceeds to cut through the Tinnbred defense like a knife through warm butter - until they reach the Tinnbred 35 yard line.... Pac-man, intercepts and returns for a TD... The defense gave up 55 yards in one drive and yet scored a TD. That's potentially a 12 (14 with extra) point turnaround. Stats dont always tell the whole story....

You're right... The Tinnbreds had 21 other guys that didn't contribute to that OT victory. Vincent played that entire game by himself!! :rolleyes:

You keep going back to that game, but I can tell you that many people that I tailgate with kind of called that scenario before it ever even happened - so we're over it.. But if you want to act like Cowboy fan, living in the past, by all means knock yourself out!!!

Blazing Arrow
01-18-2008, 12:06 PM
So your best defense of your QB is to change the subject? :um:

This is a "Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL" thread, so let's keep it on topic, shall we? Your constant attempts at straw man argument diversions not withstanding.

I did not start the thread and do not agree with its title.