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View Full Version : Bennett could replace Faggins as Texans cornerback


FirstTexansFan
10-02-2007, 04:16 AM
Per the Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5180161.html

TK_Gamer
10-02-2007, 04:49 AM
If you listen to the Kubiak interview from yesterday (I'm thinking this is where MM is getting the Fred Bennett idea) Kubiak to me, doesn't really sound like he wants to move Bennett. I think this is just Manful being her usual self jumping the gun.

Tedc
10-02-2007, 05:39 AM
If Bennett can play, he should be an option. We have to stop the bleeding as every team will be ready to test that position.

It seems that if we know they are going to pick on that position, we should be able to "trap" them into some interceptions. Where is his help?

dskillz
10-02-2007, 07:20 AM
I heard yesterday that Bennett had some injury that was keeping him out of the lineup, maybe it has cleared up and he is ready, but if that was the case, shouldn't he have gotten into the game Sunday? Or did he and I missed it?

I am sorry, but I feel like I have to triple check anything the Chronicle prints. When they make mistakes about simple things like the final score of games routinely, I am not going to trust their 'scoops'.

rollinstone18
10-02-2007, 07:29 AM
I heard yesterday that Bennett had some injury that was keeping him out of the lineup, maybe it has cleared up and he is ready, but if that was the case, shouldn't he have gotten into the game Sunday? Or did he and I missed it?

I am sorry, but I feel like I have to triple check anything the Chronicle prints. When they make mistakes about simple things like the final score of games routinely, I am not going to trust their 'scoops'.

Bennett has a hamstring injury.

I doubt that Kubiak and co. will throw Bennett into the starting role as soon as he's healthy. I want Bennett to start over Faggins but that just seems too soon.

gjmac2
10-02-2007, 07:30 AM
I know that Faggins has not been the best corner in the NFL, but let's be careful of what we wish for. Bennett is only a rookie.

Texans_Chick
10-02-2007, 08:09 AM
bennett has been down with a hamstring injury, but if i remember correctly he's moving past it and getting back into the pads at practices.

look, bennett has what it takes (including his relationship with dunta) to be a solid #2 guy. and from what i gathered listening to kubiak's 30 second clip about him kubiak would like to see him on the field if he's better than petey faggins. if reps is all that is keeping him off the field at this point then i would like to see him thrown out there from time to time so that everyone can see his progress or lack of. it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's starting by the end of the season, and it would really help us focus all our money/draft picks towards making other positions of need better. an in house #2 cb would be amazing, and would turn this defense into a monster...


It would be lovely in Bennett was the instant answer. But check out Revis' last game to know what mischief can happen to rookie corners.

And as much as some of the people play amateur doctor and say which guys need to be on the field and not, if you run for your living, and you are coming off of a messed up hamstring, you have problems.

The best way to fix a hamstring problem is resting it. And it will feel fine when you just walk. But when you run, it feels like your body is betraying your brain. That you want to run, but the leg doesn't work.

Hopefully it isn't too bad, but I'm just not thinking the odds are great for him to be completely back, and then hold his own at CB.

bah007
10-02-2007, 08:27 AM
If Bennett can play, he should be an option. We have to stop the bleeding as every team will be ready to test that position.

It seems that if we know they are going to pick on that position, we should be able to "trap" them into some interceptions. Where is his help?

I would like to see him play in the nickel first before we just throw him out there in Faggins' spot.

Give him a few games to get back to speed & then if Kubiak likes what he sees we can try him out as the #2.

I dont think that getting him out there sooner rather than later is a good idea at this point, with him coming off an injury.

Marcus
10-02-2007, 08:44 AM
Well, like someone else said, be very careful what you wish for if you want Bennett to replace Faggins.

And not even counting the hamstring, I took note of this when he referred to Bennett. Something very close to . . . "we need to get him on the field, but Bennett needs to "first, act like a pro, prepare like a pro, and practice like a pro".

I've heard him say those words before, when talking about someone else.:hmmm:

real
10-02-2007, 08:52 AM
It would be really nice if Bennett could come in a be a formidable starter.

Having said that, I'm not seeing it. I think he's really good and has some skills but I see this kid as a future nickel back/reserve corner for us. I think he'll play very well in that role.

Of course i wouldn't be opposed to being wrong and him becoming a good starter.

Cjeremy635
10-02-2007, 09:03 AM
When Bob Allen interviewed Kubiak on the news yesterday, they talked about Faggins. Kubes didn't dog on the guy at all (not that I thought he would) and actually gave him some props for all the passes being thrown his way. He knows that Faggins is being picked on due to the fact that Dunta is the opposite corner, thus it makes Faggins look like he is constantly getting burned. I think it's wishful thinking that we can have 2 shut down corners on this team. Maybe in a few years, but for now I think that it should be Faggins with some help over the top. One of those penalties he had in the game was complete B.S. and we all now it. That being said, he does need to clean up his game and be consistantly better that he has been.

gtexan02
10-02-2007, 09:18 AM
Im pretty sure Bennett was drafted in order to eventually take the #2 CB spot away from Faggins. Just his height alone gives him an edge. THere have been a few times where if Faggins had been taller, the ball would just have ricocheted off his helmet.

But corner is a tough position in the NFL, and I expect it;ll be a while before we see him out there regularly.

Luckily, Trent Green has been pretty friendly at giving corners their confidence back. Unfortunately, Faggins usually gives it back to the QB.

bigbrewster2000
10-02-2007, 09:49 AM
uh...if i thought bennett was an instant answer i would've expected to see him during the chiefs game...and i know i'm no doctor, but if kubiak is saying he's getting back to health and is in practices again i'll take it with a grain of salt but by no means am i going to ignore the head coach's (and probably some team doctors, who are doctors) opinion(s) on the matter.

i don't think it's out of his reach to be a better cb than faggins, who is looking bad every week regardless of his situation. and by no means am i saying leave him hanging out there to get rolled over. i'm saying put him in a few plays a game and watch his reactions and reads to see if he is, in fact, improving.

What Kubiak said was he wanted to get Bennett on the field but never said he would get him on the field in place of Faggins. That might happen eventually but Kubes will probably get him reps at nickel first.

The Pencil Neck
10-02-2007, 10:17 AM
What Kubiak said was he wanted to get Bennett on the field but never said he would get him on the field in place of Faggins. That might happen eventually but Kubes will probably get him reps at nickel first.

Exactly. Here's from his presser:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3713

"Fredís got to learn to practice like a pro and prepare like a pro and heís on his way to doing that, but if we can get him healthy, weíd definitely like to get him some playing time. Where thatís at, whether itís nickel, how we do that, weíll see. But itís a matter of him stepping to the plate and showing heís ready to play, also."

WHEN Fred get's healthy and looks good in practice, expect to see them try him out in nickel situations. If he performs there, they might get him some time at corner.

Texans_Chick
10-02-2007, 10:23 AM
Well, like someone else said, be very careful what you wish for if you want Bennett to replace Faggins.

And not even counting the hamstring, I took note of this when he referred to Bennett. Something very close to . . . "we need to get him on the field, but Bennett needs to "first, act like a pro, prepare like a pro, and practice like a pro".

I've heard him say those words before, when talking about someone else.:hmmm:


You can't trust the Texans talking about player injuries at all. He wants them to believe that if they work harder and prepare better that hamstring problems will go away.

But that is all smoke, mirrors and placebos. You'd like to think you can prevent hamstring injuries through hard work, but there isn't a proven scientific way to prevent them or heal them faster.

And it is misleading to suggest otherwise. But then again, he's trying to create a lockeroom of guys who play through pain. That's what they are doing in the NFL. So Kubiak will implore them all to work harder but in the meantime, that isn't going to fix Bennett's hamstring.

Cjeremy635
10-02-2007, 10:37 AM
You can't trust the Texans talking about player injuries at all. He wants them to believe that if they work harder and prepare better that hamstring problems will go away.

But that is all smoke, mirrors and placebos. You'd like to think you can prevent hamstring injuries through hard work, but there isn't a proven scientific way to prevent them or heal them faster.

And it is misleading to suggest otherwise. But then again, he's trying to create a lockeroom of guys who play through pain. That's what they are doing in the NFL. So Kubiak will implore them all to work harder but in the meantime, that isn't going to fix Bennett's hamstring.

No, but a shot in the muscle full of narcotics will......:includeme:

Lucky
10-02-2007, 11:00 AM
WHEN Fred get's healthy and looks good in practice, expect to see them try him out in nickel situations. If he performs there, they might get him some time at corner.
Well, Bennett may get time in the nickel defense, but it will be on the outside rather than the slot. Robinson, Fletcher, and even Faggins are more suited for the slot.

Putting whatever injury concerns Bennett currently has aside, his biggest issue is that he hasn't played the left side in game conditions. Fred only played RCB in the preseason, and I don't remember seeing him play on the left side in any of the practices I attended. Since then, he may have gotten reps at LCB. And there is a difference to some cornerbacks. Dunta Robinson plays better from the right side. So does Faggins.

The NFL is all about making adjustments. Opponents have targeted Petey, and the Texans defensive braintrust has yet to make the correct adjustment. From the cheap seats, I would have Petey and Dunta swap sides in the base formation, bring Bennett in at RCB in the nickel, with Faggins playing the slot. What Richard Smith & Jon Hoke decide remains to be seen. I just hope Trent Green doesn't turn into the fantasy star Joey Harrington was last Sunday.

DocBar
10-02-2007, 11:27 AM
When Bob Allen interviewed Kubiak on the news yesterday, they talked about Faggins. Kubes didn't dog on the guy at all (not that I thought he would) and actually gave him some props for all the passes being thrown his way. He knows that Faggins is being picked on due to the fact that Dunta is the opposite corner, thus it makes Faggins look like he is constantly getting burned. I think it's wishful thinking that we can have 2 shut down corners on this team. Maybe in a few years, but for now I think that it should be Faggins with some help over the top. One of those penalties he had in the game was complete B.S. and we all now it. That being said, he does need to clean up his game and be consistantly better that he has been. Faggins getting constantly burned is what makes it seem like Faggins is getting constantly burned. Teams picked on D-Rob for about half the season his rookie year, but he turned it to his advantage and made them pay. All the stuff about draft position(as if THAT mattered) and him being a "natural" nickel back not withstanding, Faggins is just not up to the task. That being said, IMO, we don't really have a viable replacement at this moment, so it's up to Smith to devise gameplans/coverages/looks to protect that side of the field.
EDIT: I didn't read all the way down before this post. Lucky took the words outta my mouth.

DocBar
10-02-2007, 11:29 AM
Im pretty sure Bennett was drafted in order to eventually take the #2 CB spot away from Faggins. Just his height alone gives him an edge. THere have been a few times where if Faggins had been taller, the ball would just have ricocheted off his helmet.

But corner is a tough position in the NFL, and I expect it;ll be a while before we see him out there regularly.

Luckily, Trent Green has been pretty friendly at giving corners their confidence back. Unfortunately, Faggins usually gives it back to the QB.
That happens to him quite a bit cuz he's always trying to catch up and just flailing away with his arms as he stares at the receiver.

Marcus
10-02-2007, 11:50 AM
We're just going to have to live with Faggins getting constantly burned. I know that's a tough pill to swallow,
so here is a glass of water to help you get it down.:laughjump:

"Devise gameplans/coverages/looks to protect that side of the field"? That's a double edged sword. Adjusting for a weakness only makes you weaker somewhere else from a secondary standpoint.

If you want to take Petey out of the picture, you're just going to have to disrupt the opposing QB. There is no easy fix here.

dalemurphy
10-02-2007, 12:23 PM
We're just going to have to live with Faggins getting constantly burned. I know that's a tough pill to swallow,
so here is a glass of water to help you get it down.:laughjump:

"Devise gameplans/coverages/looks to protect that side of the field"? That's a double edged sword. Adjusting for a weakness only makes you weaker somewhere else from a secondary standpoint.

If you want to take Petey out of the picture, you're just going to have to disrupt the opposing QB. There is no easy fix here.


Well, I think with better and more cohesive safety play, he'll get better over there. I think some of the problems in the secondary are a result of such massive personnel changes... As that settles down, the entire secondary will respond. Once Petey knows where the safety help will be, he'll improve.

TexansLucky13
10-02-2007, 12:37 PM
We should trade for DeAngelo Hall.

Exithios
10-02-2007, 12:41 PM
We should trade for DeAngelo Hall.

Agreed. I still suggest we deal them Jerome Mathis and, in good faith, a litter of pit bull puppies...

badboy
10-02-2007, 12:47 PM
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=17341
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/5767.html
http://www.mymockdraft.com/595/PlayerDetail.aspx

Info to remind us why he was drafted. Good size and speed. That word we all like, potential.

DocBar
10-02-2007, 01:24 PM
We're just going to have to live with Faggins getting constantly burned. I know that's a tough pill to swallow,
so here is a glass of water to help you get it down.:laughjump:

"Devise gameplans/coverages/looks to protect that side of the field"? That's a double edged sword. Adjusting for a weakness only makes you weaker somewhere else from a secondary standpoint.
If you want to take Petey out of the picture, you're just going to have to disrupt the opposing QB. There is no easy fix here.Teams do this successfully all the time. The Texans don't because they use a lot of man coverage, even though man coverage doesn't suit their palyers abilities. I'm still not overly impressed with Richard Smith and his ability to put his defense in a position to succeed. I agree that more consistent pressure on the QB goes along way in hiding defeciencies in other areas of the the defense.

Rex King
10-02-2007, 02:31 PM
Teams do this successfully all the time. The Texans don't because they use a lot of man coverage, even though man coverage doesn't suit their palyers abilities. I'm still not overly impressed with Richard Smith and his ability to put his defense in a position to succeed. I agree that more consistent pressure on the QB goes along way in hiding defeciencies in other areas of the the defense.

I'd like to know what kind of game-planning goes on and how much they feel they're limited by personnel. I know they said they planned to play man against the Chiefs, but they were able to do that because of how putrid the receivers were. But most of the time, it seems Smith just wants to get pressure with the front four without trying to confuse the opposing offense. Is this because they're scared of exposing the secondary if they blitz? Or does he just not have a "bag of tricks" like Dick LeBeau and Jim Johnson for example?

brakos82
10-02-2007, 06:02 PM
"The sky parts and we win 10 in a row" :fans:

Hook'er
10-02-2007, 06:15 PM
Faggins getting constantly burned is what makes it seem like Faggins is getting constantly burned. Teams picked on D-Rob for about half the season his rookie year, but he turned it to his advantage and made them pay. All the stuff about draft position(as if THAT mattered) and him being a "natural" nickel back not withstanding, Faggins is just not up to the task. That being said, IMO, we don't really have a viable replacement at this moment, so it's up to Smith to devise gameplans/coverages/looks to protect that side of the field.
EDIT: I didn't read all the way down before this post. Lucky took the words outta my mouth.

Petey AKA the new "P-Burnt", we just got rid of one last year with P.Bucannon!:gun:

The Pencil Neck
10-02-2007, 06:18 PM
Petey AKA the new "P-Burnt", we just got rid of one last year with P.Bucannon!:gun:

Who's now playing for the Buccs and I think, looking OK.

Runner
10-02-2007, 07:45 PM
You'd like to think you can prevent hamstring injuries through hard work, but there isn't a proven scientific way to prevent them or heal them faster.


Have you ever heard of a basketball player with a pulled hamstring?

They run backwards a lot - is that the miracle workout?

Texans_Chick
10-02-2007, 08:18 PM
Have you ever heard of a basketball player with a pulled hamstring?

They run backwards a lot - is that the miracle workout?

Yes. Happens all the time.

And so no. Nice thought though.

Runner
10-02-2007, 08:20 PM
Yes. Happens all the time.

And so no. Nice thought though.


I can't recall any at the pro level, and I watch a lot of ball. Maybe I'm just brain dead. Lots of sprains, cramps, and stuff, but I can't think of a pulled hamstring.

Errant Hothy
10-02-2007, 08:44 PM
Teams do this successfully all the time. The Texans don't because they use a lot of man coverage, even though man coverage doesn't suit their palyers abilities. I'm still not overly impressed with Richard Smith and his ability to put his defense in a position to succeed. I agree that more consistent pressure on the QB goes along way in hiding defeciencies in other areas of the the defense.

Teams with good FS's do this all the time. Playing a seafty over the top would be the optium way to keep Faggins from getting burnt for big plays...Oh...wait...my bad...Faggins is NOT getting burned for big plays.

If you want to keep the WR that Faggins is covering from having such a big cushion you need Faggins to try and jam the WR at the line. And if you ask Faggins to do that he WILL get burnt for big plays, unless the safeties can cover over the top of the play.

Do you really think that our safeties are good enough to help over the top?

Ole Miss Texan
10-02-2007, 09:06 PM
I don't want it to sound like I'm saying Faggins is a great corner, I'm just trying to look at our CB situation as objectively as possible and seem to be one of the few actually defending the poor play of Faggins- if that makes any sense whatsoever. lol

-I'm looking forward to Fred Bennet playing. I was really excited we drafted him, and extatic when we got him in the trade down in the 4th round! However, he's a rookie. he's a rookie cb. Leon Hall who was arguably the best CB in the draft has been burned left and right this season. It is such a hard transition for rookies to come in at CB and compete. Give him some time. He has awesome size and a knack for the ball- I truly feel he'll be good but I am in NO WAY condoning us starting him... If kubiak feels he's currently the best #2 for our team, by all means. In my opinion though, he would just be severely overmatched. Another perfect example was the 1st quarter. When Deangelo Hall was out, Rookie 2nd rd pick Chris Houston from Arkansas came in to take his place. Schaub picked on him with a decent gain to Walter and the long TD pass to Andre Davis. Chris Houston is extremely fast and a guy many of us were looking at to pick if we traded down. Just trying to put some stuff in perspective.

-Petey Faggins. Rewatching the ATL/Hou game I must point some things out for all those wanting to stone this guy.
*TD #1: Faggins wasn't guarding Jenkins. It looked like it was some sorta zone play. Fletcher was on Jenkins and switched over to the other wr guarding right on the goal line. Von Hutchins had to cover Jenkins and was behind him, Demeco Ryans was too late coming over as well.
*TD #2: Again, Faggins wasn't covering Jenkins. Fletcher was and missed the tackle on like the 5 yd line or so.

I just want people to get the facts straight and if you must blame someone, at least blame the right person.

Hook'er
10-02-2007, 09:38 PM
I really don't think it could get any worse the Petey "P-Burnt" Faggins!:

painekiller
10-03-2007, 12:38 AM
If you listen to the Kubiak interview from yesterday (I'm thinking this is where MM is getting the Fred Bennett idea) Kubiak to me, doesn't really sound like he wants to move Bennett. I think this is just Manful being her usual self jumping the gun.

This is exactly as I am seeing it. He was asked about Bennett, and he said when he get healthy we would like to see where he is, and how far he has progressed. If also said, yes (to the question), he has a a big body, and would be a nice match up.

I did not hear him say Faggins is losing his job when Bennett is healthy like she is implying.

HJam72
10-03-2007, 02:27 AM
Maybe this is stupid [what else is new :) ] but isn't Von Hutchins fast enough to cover Faggins receiver over the top when Faggins plays closer up? Now, I'm talking about putting VH on that strong side, but we all know Faggins needs more help than D-Rob. Then, we move whoever our SS is to D-Rob's side and send CC Brown to go play tiddlie-winks or something.

Don't tell me D-Rob can't handle it.

If you're worried about the safety on Faggins' side stopping the run, just remember that we don't have that problem anyway. Demeco pretty much squashes that need. Also, maybe he might get hurt or something, but Von Hutchins has been known to lay the wood is his short playing time with us. I think we need to do something different. One way or another, Faggins needs to quit giving up all those short receptions--whether he gets help he trusts, or he sits down.

PS-I wouldn't even mind using Bennet or Fletcher at CB and putting "Petey" at safety on their side. I'm SICK to death of inadequate pass coverage on that side.

barrett
10-03-2007, 03:02 AM
Well, I think with better and more cohesive safety play, he'll get better over there. I think some of the problems in the secondary are a result of such massive personnel changes... As that settles down, the entire secondary will respond. Once Petey knows where the safety help will be, he'll improve.

after reading some of these posts, i'm thinking i've been a bit too hard on him... and so have alot of the people posting. the one argument that i just don't think flys is:

there are better CB's on this team.

Faggins frustrates me to no end... but there isn't any body better RIGHT NOW. I hate to see him getting eaten alive on these boards.

Mr teX
10-03-2007, 07:59 AM
I would like to see him play in the nickel first before we just throw him out there in Faggins' spot.

Give him a few games to get back to speed & then if Kubiak likes what he sees we can try him out as the #2.

I dont think that getting him out there sooner rather than later is a good idea at this point, with him coming off an injury.

i'm with you on this one, rep your way. We need to be careful what we wish for.

If he's not ready in any capacity at all, i don't wanna throw him out there in a prime position & have him get his confidence destroyed. Let him work his way in & see what it takes to be a corner in this league.

If we must get Faggins out of there, switch he & fletcher.

A couple of things i have noticed though is Petey's playing with a tad bit more cushion than is dunta who plays a little closer to the WR on his side. Whether he's asked to play this far away or he's just trying to compensate is another story. It looks like his biggest problem is "feeling" the WR while he's looking in the backfield @ the QB.

bigbrewster2000
10-03-2007, 08:58 AM
Maybe this is stupid [what else is new :) ] but isn't Von Hutchins fast enough to cover Faggins receiver over the top when Faggins plays closer up? Now, I'm talking about putting VH on that strong side, but we all know Faggins needs more help than D-Rob. Then, we move whoever our SS is to D-Rob's side and send CC Brown to go play tiddlie-winks or something.

Don't tell me D-Rob can't handle it.

If you're worried about the safety on Faggins' side stopping the run, just remember that we don't have that problem anyway. Demeco pretty much squashes that need. Also, maybe he might get hurt or something, but Von Hutchins has been known to lay the wood is his short playing time with us. I think we need to do something different. One way or another, Faggins needs to quit giving up all those short receptions--whether he gets help he trusts, or he sits down.

PS-I wouldn't even mind using Bennet or Fletcher at CB and putting "Petey" at safety on their side. I'm SICK to death of inadequate pass coverage on that side.

Hutchins already plays on the strong side behind Faggins, however they are not playing much cover 2. If they did Hutchins would probably be good enough to play over the top of Faggins.

And CC definantly would do just fine playing tiddly winks.:splits:

Petey imo does not hit hard enough or tackle well enough to play safety. There is no reason to put him back there. He will play on the outside until Bennett is ready to step up the Faggins will move to the Nickel and Fletch will move to the Dime where they both need to be.

Goldensilence
10-03-2007, 11:40 AM
Nice to know the fanbase is ready and willing to tar and feather two games into the season.

Offensively i understand some of Kubiaks reasons for making certain calls and right now with AJ and JJ gone being forced to reign in his game plan.

Defensively I'm not at all impressed with Richard Smith. The front seven and Dunta have played well. Other then that I'm not really impressed with how this coaching staff has put the rest of the squad in position to succceed. But then again i'm reminded the current shuffle at the safeties and how this team really came together after what week 4-5 last year....which concidentally is about the same time our new safeties will be much more comfortable and i think the staff a lot more confidence. Miami could in total be a get well game for this team to come out play hard and see what we've got on both sides of the ball.

Of course i find it hilarious how quickly this board forgot how much this team struggled defensively without Faggins last year. There were even some Faggins get well wishes on this board.

real
10-03-2007, 11:48 AM
Secondary coach Jon Hoke hasn't given up on Faggins, but he concedes "Petey" probably needs to be at least temporarily plucked from the frying pan for the sake of his own mental health. The kind of penalties Faggins committed are often an indication that a player is veering toward panic mode.

"We just have to get him settled down," Hoke said.

Still, the best-case scenario for the Texans would be Bennett's proving worthy of the starting job opposite Robinson, a fellow former South Carolina Gamecock. At 6-0, 197 pounds, the fourth-round draft choice is bigger than both Faggins (5-10, 179) and Fletcher (5-10, 185). He's also a more proficient, punishing tackler — if not quite yet in the same league as the 5-11, 184-pound Robinson, who packs as much pound-for-pound wallop as almost any player in the NFL.

An accomplished sprinter in high school, Bennett is also faster than the two veterans. Although a lack of speed hasn't been a conspicuous problem for either Faggins or seventh-year pro Fletcher, most agree they would be more effectively utilized in the "nickel" and "dime" packages — if that's a luxury the Texans can afford.

While coach Gary Kubiak said, "We had a quarterback (Joey Harrington) play really good against us," he was reluctant to promise a lineup change. He refrained from saying Bennett would start.

"We think a lot of Fred," Kubiak said, "but in all honesty, in the last few weeks he hasn't been healthy with his hamstring, and he hasn't been (practicing). He did get back to work some Thursday and looked very good on Friday last week. Fred's got to learn to practice like a pro and prepare like a pro, and he's on his way to doing that. If we can get him healthy, we'd definitely like to get him some playing time.

"Where that's at, how we do that, we'll see. But it's also a matter of him stepping to the plate and showing he's ready to play."

Robinson would have mixed emotions about Bennett's replacing Faggins because he has cultivated special relationships with each. In his final year at South Carolina, Robinson threw his support behind the then-freshman Bennett, and he has grown close to Faggins in their three-plus seasons together in Houston.

While acknowledging Faggins is struggling , Robinson doesn't think he deserves to be benched.

"I don't think you sit guys down (for the kind of mistakes Faggins made)," he said. "I think you give us as a team the chance to correct it again on Sunday."

But Robinson insisted Faggins will handle whatever happens as a professional.

"I talked to Petey," he said. "He's always in good spirits. He's been through a lot in his life, so he knows what it takes to get back on the football field if they do sit him down."




http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5183549.html

eriadoc
10-03-2007, 12:43 PM
I reiterate - If Faggins is a good nickel back, then put him at nickel in those situations. Ten, you only have to worry about safety help for the #2 corner.

Oh, right ..... Faggins isn't really a good nickel back, either.

badboy
10-03-2007, 01:49 PM
Faggins and Salaam are stand ins until someone better beats them out. LT and CB were not addressed in first 3 rounds by teams choice. They are what they are. To condemn someone for doing his best is ridiculous to me. If Jordan Black or Fletcher could beat the starter they would be the starter. Faggins like Salaam will have good plays and bad plays. Faggins is not Pburnt and should not be insulted. Bennett may or not be the answer. Same with Spencer. We are basing a lot on very little actual game play with C.S. We may be looking at same basic needs in next draft. LT, CB, FS and RB. At this moment our only need that seems to be resolved is #2 WR. I fully expect our first round pick to be a defensive lineman.

real
10-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Good. And you guys cut Faggins some slack.

scourge
10-03-2007, 03:32 PM
Bennett is only a rookie.

So was Robinson when he nabbed 6 balls for us back in '04...

HOU-TEX
10-03-2007, 03:35 PM
So was Robinson when he nabbed 6 balls for us back in '04...

And...what rounds were they drafted in? There's quite a difference between 1st round and 2nd day players.:gun:

badboy
10-03-2007, 04:03 PM
So was Robinson when he nabbed 6 balls for us back in '04...Right now Dunte and Bennett do not belong in the same sentence when comparing skills. We are hopeful for the B man,but for now hopeful is all it is.

Marcus
10-03-2007, 04:55 PM
Defensively I'm not at all impressed with Richard Smith. The front seven and Dunta have played well. Other then that I'm not really impressed with how this coaching staff has put the rest of the squad in position to succceed. But then again i'm reminded the current shuffle at the safeties and how this team really came together after what week 4-5 last year....which concidentally is about the same time our new safeties will be much more comfortable and i think the staff a lot more confidence. Miami could in total be a get well game for this team to come out play hard and see what we've got on both sides of the ball.

Of course i find it hilarious how quickly this board forgot how much this team struggled defensively without Faggins last year. There were even some Faggins get well wishes on this board.

I don't understand where you're coming from, there. You say the front seven and Dunta have played well. Well yeah, they're good talented players. Pretty much a no-brainer there. But then, you go on to say that you're "not impressed with the way the coaching staff has put the rest of the a squad in position to succeed", without taking into account the sharp drop off in talent with the 2 safeties and other CB position, even after going on to say how Faggins struggled defensively last year???

There is only so much you can do, coaching wise, if you have lack of talent at certain positions. To expect more than that is unrealistic.

Marcus
10-03-2007, 05:02 PM
Bennett is only a rookie.

So was Robinson when he nabbed 6 balls for us back in '04...

Let's see now.

Robinson was the 10th overall pick in the draft. Bennett was a 4th rounder.

Yeah, I guess they're about the same.:rolleyes:

Goldensilence
10-03-2007, 05:15 PM
I don't understand where you're coming from, there. You say the front seven and Dunta have played well. Well yeah, they're good talented players. Pretty much a no-brainer there. But then, you go on to say that you're "not impressed with the way the coaching staff has put the rest of the a squad in position to succeed", without taking into account the sharp drop off in talent with the 2 safeties and other CB position, even after going on to say how Faggins struggled defensively last year???

There is only so much you can do, coaching wise, if you have lack of talent at certain positions. To expect more than that is unrealistic.

I never said Faggins struggled last year. In fact I said the defense struggled without him last year.

I mentioned the safeties only passingly as we are moving two new players into the roation, if not the starting lineup in, Demps and Boulware. I can credit that much indeed with part of the struggle our secondary is facing. But it's like Reid putting Justice out on an island sunday night against Osi. If someone isn't ready or can't handle being out on an island by themselves it shouldn't take a genius to get them help or make an in game adjustment on scheme. It's not anything new that on the boards we've mentioned having safety help over the top or jamming the slot guy at the line. You can scheme to HELP weaknesses not cover them completely is all i'm trying to say.

I also said i expected as we get settled in more at both safety spots i expect this defense to be better.

Ole Miss Texan
10-03-2007, 11:53 PM
So what's the latest word on how Demps and Boulware are taking to the system?

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2007, 09:15 AM
Here are some true statements:
-faggins isn't handling his share of the load on defense.
When others have gotten the opportunity to play, they've gotten burned (namely Jamar Fletcher)
-in 4 games faggins has been up against 2 of the best recievers in the league, and 2 decent recievers. he's been burned in every game due solely to his lack of skill for a #2 cornerback.
Game 1- I honestly don't remember this far back! but 0 TD's. KC is perdy bad and I do recall Sammy Parker making a big gain- don't know if it was Faggins responibility or another CB or S. Game 2- Steve Smith is incredible, Faggins had great defense on the first TD- only Elite wr's would have made that catch after the deflection-Smith made a great play. 2nd TD was clearly Faggins poor tackling. 3rd TD was everyones poor tackling, namely Demeco slowing smith down but I think it was a S, knocked one of our own guys and allowed smith to break free. Game 3- Held Marvin Harrison to 53 yards and 0 TD's which is a win, did play bend but don't break defense which was not smart on the last drive where MH got the 1st- bad call Game 4- Faggins gave up a few plays I believe but the Fletcher and Hutchins were responsible for the 2 TD's, not Faggins
-teams are gameplaning to throw at faggins because it's working. he's basically a running target.
Dunta is playing very very well. Untill we have a true #2 or great FS, teams will ALWAYS expose our secondary. Teams will gameplan and pick apart Fletcher or Bennet if they are there, this won't change until we get our Dre Bly across from our Champ Bailey
-starting in the atl, more than likely every play he's out there getting burned is shattering his confidence. we still need him as a nickel db...
CB kind of reminds me of a Closer in pitcher. If the confidence is shot, well the other team is going to make plays/score. Maybe Faggins does need to sit some, regroup and focus. Hopefully he's turning it around in practice.

bennett IS going to get a chance to play this weekend, per kubiak. i don't disagree with those of you wanting faggins as the #2 because realistically there is not a better option AT THIS POINT IN TIME. however, in bennett's playing time if he shows that he is better (or just as good) than faggins then he needs to start accumulating more and more playing time away from faggins as the season rolls along. outright giving the spot to either is silly. leaving a more talented cb on the sideline would be dumb, and handing over the reigns to a untested rookie is pretty dumb as well.
I'm really looking forward to seeing Bennet get more and more playing time. I think you hit the nail on the head when saying 'outright giving the spot to either is silly'. This should be a good game for Bennet to play some b/c MIAMI doesn't have the quality of WR that some of the other teams we've played have. I would like to see steady progress by Bennet, but don't want him to get thrown in there too early. If we rely too much on him, he's going to get burned (shoot even Dunta gets burned every now and then) and he may start to lose confidence. Being a rookie cb, I think we should get him as much playing time as it would be helpful for his development. I think everyone is fed up with Faggins and don't care if the other person is any better, they just want change. I'm as unhappy with Faggins play as the next guy, but just don't see anyone on our team that would do better. Bennet could be great down the road- I love his size

DocBar
10-04-2007, 10:41 AM
Teams with good FS's do this all the time. Playing a seafty over the top would be the optium way to keep Faggins from getting burnt for big plays...Oh...wait...my bad...Faggins is NOT getting burned for big plays.

If you want to keep the WR that Faggins is covering from having such a big cushion you need Faggins to try and jam the WR at the line. And if you ask Faggins to do that he WILL get burnt for big plays, unless the safeties can cover over the top of the play.

Do you really think that our safeties are good enough to help over the top?
Yes I do think our safeties are good enough to help over the top IF that's where they're told to be. Four flailing arms are better than two. Faggins isn't giving up big plays this season but he IS giving the opponent an almost automatic 1st down when the ball goes to his side.That's keeping drives alive and our D on the field. Faggins may be our best option at LCB, but that doesn't mean he's a GOOD option.

badboy
10-04-2007, 10:55 AM
this isn't high school man. trying hard can only bring you so far.

here are some true statements:
-faggins isn't handling his share of the load on defense.
-in 4 games faggins has been up against 2 of the best recievers in the league, and 2 decent recievers. he's been burned in every game due solely to his lack of skill for a #2 cornerback.
-teams are gameplaning to throw at faggins because it's working. he's basically a running target.
-starting in the atl, more than likely every play he's out there getting burned is shattering his confidence. we still need him as a nickel db...

bennett IS going to get a chance to play this weekend, per kubiak. i don't disagree with those of you wanting faggins as the #2 because realistically there is not a better option AT THIS POINT IN TIME. however, in bennett's playing time if he shows that he is better (or just as good) than faggins then he needs to start accumulating more and more playing time away from faggins as the season rolls along. outright giving the spot to either is silly. leaving a more talented cb on the sideline would be dumb, and handing over the reigns to a untested rookie is pretty dumb as well.

You slamming a 6th round selection for not being a Dunte Robinson sounds like high school to me. If he was not doing his best, say that. He admits he needs to do better. Our 6th round this season Casey Studdard is not even starting. Why don't you slam him also? The point is, we don't have anyone better than Petey. I hate it when some one scores over him too. Why don't you redirect your wrath at Smith for taking Okoye? We could have had a corner in first round.

eriadoc
10-04-2007, 11:12 AM
Your responses in red, mine in blue.

Here are some true statements:
-faggins isn't handling his share of the load on defense. When others have gotten the opportunity to play, they've gotten burned (namely Jamar Fletcher) - And yet that still doesn't address Faggins' lack of defense. Anytime you defend someone by deflecting, you have probably already conceded the point in your mind.
-in 4 games faggins has been up against 2 of the best recievers in the league, and 2 decent recievers. he's been burned in every game due solely to his lack of skill for a #2 cornerback.Game 1- I honestly don't remember this far back! but 0 TD's. KC is perdy bad and I do recall Sammy Parker making a big gain- don't know if it was Faggins responibility or another CB or S. Game 2- Steve Smith is incredible, Faggins had great defense on the first TD- only Elite wr's would have made that catch after the deflection-Smith made a great play. 2nd TD was clearly Faggins poor tackling. 3rd TD was everyones poor tackling, namely Demeco slowing smith down but I think it was a S, knocked one of our own guys and allowed smith to break free. Game 3- Held Marvin Harrison to 53 yards and 0 TD's which is a win, did play bend but don't break defense which was not smart on the last drive where MH got the 1st- bad call Game 4- Faggins gave up a few plays I believe but the Fletcher and Hutchins were responsible for the 2 TD's, not Faggins - I really hope that people don't actually believe Faggins played great defense on that deflected ball Smith caught for a TD. Faggins had great positioning. Great defense would have been turning his head around and actually playing the ball. I think most CBs would have turned, played the ball, and batted it down. If Smith hadn't deflected that, it would have bounced off the back of Faggins' shoulderpads. As for the rest, Faggins has given far too much cushion on every receiver. Some of that is by design, but even the coaches have acknowledged that this is something that he needs to work on.
-teams are gameplaning to throw at faggins because it's working. he's basically a running target.Dunta is playing very very well. Untill we have a true #2 or great FS, teams will ALWAYS expose our secondary. Teams will gameplan and pick apart Fletcher or Bennet if they are there, this won't change until we get our Dre Bly across from our Champ Bailey - Dunta is playing very well; you're right. But we don't have to have a Dre Bly-caliber WR across from Dunta to see marked improvement. A decent corner with safety help can help out a great deal The safety play is about as big a problem as Faggins.

I like Faggins. He's a blue collar, hard working guy that has made some key plays for this team in the past. That does not blind me from recognizing that a change needs to be made there. Faggins is a huge liability right now. Unfortunately, there is no one better to replace him with, so far. Hopefully Bennett can come in and play adequately, then maybe Faggins will get to show his stuff against the other teams' 3rd WRs.

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2007, 11:37 AM
I like Faggins. He's a blue collar, hard working guy that has made some key plays for this team in the past. That does not blind me from recognizing that a change needs to be made there. Faggins is a huge liability right now. Unfortunately, there is no one better to replace him with, so far. Hopefully Bennett can come in and play adequately, then maybe Faggins will get to show his stuff against the other teams' 3rd WRs.

I'm in complete agreement with this.

gtexan02
10-04-2007, 12:52 PM
Here is my problem with Faggins and every member of our secondary other than Dunta Robinson --- they play the man rather than the ball.

Sure this helps them not get beat on playactions and pumps, but this also means that unless they happen to be hit on accident, the other guy is going to make the catch.

have you seen the completion percentage against the Texans? Its almost laughibly high. We let Harrington, the ONLY active QB with a career passer rating under 70 complete 80%

DocBar
10-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Here is my problem with Faggins and every member of our secondary other than Dunta Robinson --- they play the man rather than the ball.

Sure this helps them not get beat on playactions and pumps, but this also means that unless they happen to be hit on accident, the other guy is going to make the catch.

have you seen the completion percentage against the Texans? Its almost laughibly high. We let Harrington, the ONLY active QB with a career passer rating under 70 complete 80% Remember what Bruenel did against us last year??? The Falcons game reminded me of theat game a little bit.

real
10-04-2007, 03:49 PM
Joey Harrington was actually making plays for his team last week. He avoided some pressure and got the ball of for completions.

Good QB play will always give a team a chance to win.

badboy
10-04-2007, 03:51 PM
Joey Harrington was actually making plays for his team last week. He avoided some pressure and got the ball of for completions.

Good QB play will always give a team a chance to win.Maybe this thread should turn from how bad Faggins is to how good Joey did?

real
10-04-2007, 03:53 PM
If only I had that authority.

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2007, 04:30 PM
With respect towards Fred Bennet, how long does it usually take a CB to develop into a quality starter?

I know it depends on the person, etc etc...but for example on the DL it is said it typically takes them 3 years to really develop. What can we expect from a CB?

I think we're all ready for Bennet to be then man, but what/when is realistic?

Rex King
10-04-2007, 05:57 PM
I guess if you have elite talent you can start from day one - Dunta, Newman. Guys like the Eagles and Broncos CBs took a couple years to develop. But they had better starters to begin with (not counting Dunta).

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2007, 09:52 PM
Someone in another thread stated that Faggins didn't play as much the 2nd half. Now, I watched the game live and then rewatched it on DVR- trying to look at a lot of players and embarrassingly didn't even notice this was the case, if true.

Does anybody know how much time Faggins played the 2nd half? On one hand, the Falcons only scored 6 points....but on the other (while the game was close) they always had the lead and needed to run (the clock out).

Hook'er
10-07-2007, 11:02 PM
It's time to make the move!:texflag:

Maddict5
10-07-2007, 11:05 PM
why? bennett was good and petey was good.. no need for change yet

Hook'er
10-07-2007, 11:09 PM
Why wait?.................................... Fred looked better!

Maddict5
10-07-2007, 11:12 PM
how so?

AnthonyE
10-07-2007, 11:16 PM
I think both really stepped up their play today.

Faggins was on top of recievers like a blanket most of the day and Bennett looked good.

I say this competition for the 2nd CB and respect is good for the team.

scourge
12-11-2007, 11:35 PM
Honestly now, after what we've seen so far, how many of you still feel Faggins is a better option than Bennett?

and how many of you feel Bennett isn't contributing much because of his 4th rd status???


yeah, I thought so...

TexansLucky13
12-11-2007, 11:37 PM
Bennett is doing much better than expected. We are truly lucky to have so many young guys step up when veterans go down.

TexanSam
12-11-2007, 11:39 PM
I wish they would have started Bennett much earlier in the season because honestly, could he have been much worse than Faggins was?

scourge
12-12-2007, 04:05 PM
I was mainly referring to quotes such as these...

I know that Faggins has not been the best corner in the NFL, but let's be careful of what we wish for. Bennett is only a rookie.

my response

So was Robinson when he nabbed 6 balls for us back in '04...

the rebuttal

And...what rounds were they drafted in? There's quite a difference between 1st round and 2nd day players.:gun:

Let's see now.

Robinson was the 10th overall pick in the draft. Bennett was a 4th rounder.

Yeah, I guess they're about the same.:rolleyes:

Right now Dunte and Bennett do not belong in the same sentence when comparing skills. We are hopeful for the B man,but for now hopeful is all it is.

Each has played 9 games this season and through those 9 games Bennett has out performed Robinson in FF, Tackles, Solo Tackles, PD, and INTs...
I'm not saying Fred is better than Dunta. All I'm saying is that he is holding it down nicely. And if you've been watching the same games i have, then you'll see Bennett has been doing his damndest to lay the wood as D Rob would have. DRob has been my favorite defender since we drafted him, but i was just as hopeful about Bennett when we drafted him.

It's not the college they are from, its the swagger they bring.

tulexan
12-12-2007, 04:12 PM
I really hate the argument of someone being drafted in a higher round must be better than one drafted in a lower round. There are examples in every draft at every position which disprove this notion.

threetoedpete
12-12-2007, 04:26 PM
I really hate the argument of someone being drafted in a higher round must be better than one drafted in a lower round. There are examples in every draft at every position which disprove this notion.

Agreed. Not to defend Petey but he is the veteran guy. Bennet came in with some bagage. If the other thirty one clubs thought that Bennit would be doing this well with this minamal amount of time....he wouldn't of slid into the forth round. You can dance all you want...the fact is Bennit hasn't faced the fire yet. And you won't know exactly what you have untill then. The SITYS only work if it's true. So far the jury is still out. His confidence is up and he's playing very well. Got three games left including, the young phenom tommorow, Peyton Manning and a very hot David Garrard....we'll see. Manning may be benched if things work out right.