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kiwitexansfan
09-30-2007, 04:18 PM
What do we really need??

My list reads:
Cornerback
Left Tackle
Running Back
Free Safety
Strong Safety
Outside Linebacker x 2

Have I missed anything??

PapaL
09-30-2007, 04:20 PM
FG Kicker

Errant Hothy
09-30-2007, 05:11 PM
RB
CB

...and pray that Spencer can make it back, or else we may be further away then we think we are.

Farough
09-30-2007, 05:26 PM
yeah, give me a 2nd corner and I will be happy.

real
09-30-2007, 05:35 PM
1) Cb
2) Rb
3) Lt

drewmar74
09-30-2007, 05:58 PM
CB, FS, C, RB.....

LT if Big Nasty can't come back.

Grab BPA amongst those four or five positions.

awtysst
09-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Hold up everyone. We just drafted fred Bennett in the last draft. I say, lets see what he can do before we start saying draft a corner.

Although, if Bennett works out, maybe we go with a first round CB and then move Dunta to FS. That could potentially solve our FS problem.

real
09-30-2007, 06:13 PM
I'd like to see us draft a top tier corner or FS....

I think Fred Bennet, Faggins, and Fletcher should all battle for the nickel back next year...

I think Fred Bennet's future role is a good solid nickel back/special teamer for us...

Errant Hothy
09-30-2007, 06:16 PM
Hold up everyone. We just drafted fred Bennett in the last draft. I say, lets see what he can do before we start saying draft a corner.

Although, if Bennett works out, maybe we go with a first round CB and then move Dunta to FS. That could potentially solve our FS problem.

No...I thought we'd put this one to bed. Dunta is not big enough to play FS, unless you want to shorten his career.

rollinstone18
09-30-2007, 06:47 PM
No...I thought we'd put this one to bed. Dunta is not big enough to play FS, unless you want to shorten his career.

Dunta is taller than Bob Sanders.

Errant Hothy
09-30-2007, 06:54 PM
Dunta is taller than Bob Sanders.

A) they are built differently, b) their skill sets are very different and c) Sanders tends to miss some time every year.

Do we really want to move our best CB to FS, and start Bennett and xxxxx?

Leave Dunta at CB, and work from there.

beerlover
09-30-2007, 09:03 PM
1) Cb
2) Rb
3) Lt

bpa of the above postions :cool:

BigBull17
09-30-2007, 10:53 PM
1. Lt
2. Cb
3. Fs/ss
4. Olb
5. Rb
6. Wr/g

tulexan
09-30-2007, 10:59 PM
We do have money this year, so we should see who is going to be available in Free Agency too.

I think we are either going to draft a DB in the first and go after a running back in free agency or go after a DB in free agency and draft a RB in the first.

awtysst
09-30-2007, 11:25 PM
We do have money this year, so we should see who is going to be available in Free Agency too.

I think we are either going to draft a DB in the first and go after a running back in free agency or go after a DB in free agency and draft a RB in the first.

Yup. We do have money. I would like to see us go after a Michael Turner or Terrell Suggs. Can you imagine a D with Amobi and Mario upfront and then Demeco and Suggs behind?!

rollinstone18
10-01-2007, 12:59 AM
We do have money this year, so we should see who is going to be available in Free Agency too.

I think we are either going to draft a DB in the first and go after a running back in free agency or go after a DB in free agency and draft a RB in the first.
Guys we need to target:
Alan Faneca - OL
Asante Samuel - CB

The talent of RB in this year's draft exceeds what will be available in FA.

rollinstone18
10-01-2007, 01:01 AM
A) they are built differently, b) their skill sets are very different and c) Sanders tends to miss some time every year.

Do we really want to move our best CB to FS, and start Bennett and xxxxx?

Leave Dunta at CB, and work from there.

Actually I think they are built more similar than not. But, no, I don't want to move Dunta to SS or FS.

awtysst
10-01-2007, 01:05 AM
Guys we need to target:
Alan Faneca - OL
Asante Samuel - CB

The talent of RB in this year's draft exceeds what will be available in FA.

Samuel would be great to pair with Dunta, but isnt Faneca a LG? If so, don't we already have Pitts there and Studdard behind him? Are you suggesting moving Faneca to RG and have Weary play center?

rollinstone18
10-01-2007, 01:10 AM
Samuel would be great to pair with Dunta, but isnt Faneca a LG? If so, don't we already have Pitts there and Studdard behind him? Are you suggesting moving Faneca to RG and have Weary play center?

Faneca has played LT before. 8 games or so if I'm not mistaken. But he mostly is a LG. Faneca's role would be dependant on Spencer's recovery. I think Faneca can play LT if Spencer is unable to.

threetoedpete
10-01-2007, 03:28 AM
bpa of the above postions :cool:

Agreed. Another thing you might consider is there is no garuntee that McKinney will come back. He's not a youngster any more. He's vested and he has business interests. Sucessful business interests.

What I see on the board is a hole bunch of very athletic LBs. The first day is going to littered with them. I think they'll buy a CB. I've all but given up hope that they'll invest high in o-lineman. Hey two weeks untill they pull the top off of the "Will Chalres Spencer come back" present. A true October surprise .

threetoedpete
10-01-2007, 03:36 AM
Yup. We do have money. I would like to see us go after a Michael Turner or Terrell Suggs. Can you imagine a D with Amobi and Mario upfront and then Demeco and Suggs behind?!

The're not going to buy Turner. If they were going with a scat guy Quintan Griffen would already be on the roster. And about Suggs, what are you going to do with Weaver then ? I think with the cap you can have one or the other but not both. Kinda like A.J. and every year someone posts we're going to drat a WR high. Nope ain't going to do it as long as A.J. is walking around healthy. Draft is going to be loaded with RBs. All shapes and sizes. Every round. I think it's a boom or bust year for Benson. Not saying they'll do it. But, chicago might cut the cord this June. we seem to be making a statement about older, under achieving RB and offensive lineman.

Texanmike02
10-01-2007, 04:09 AM
Hold up everyone. We just drafted fred Bennett in the last draft. I say, lets see what he can do before we start saying draft a corner.

Although, if Bennett works out, maybe we go with a first round CB and then move Dunta to FS. That could potentially solve our FS problem.

NO WAY.

Draft a CB. EARLY. If Bennett works out.. what a shame to have 3 CBs. No way I'm moving Dunta to FS though. NO WAY. His cover skills are just too good. You want a good cover guy as FS. You don't want your best cover guy as an FS. You want him locking down the opponents best reciever. Just my opinion though.

Mike

Texanmike02
10-01-2007, 04:10 AM
The're not going to buy Turner. If they were going with a scat guy Quintan Griffen would already be on the roster. And about Suggs, what are you going to do with Weaver then ? I think with the cap you can have one or the other but not both. Kinda like A.J. and every year someone posts we're going to drat a WR high. Nope ain't going to do it as long as A.J. is walking around healthy. Draft is going to be loaded with RBs. All shapes and sizes. Every round. I think it's a boom or bust year for Benson. Not saying they'll do it. But, chicago might cut the cord this June. we seem to be making a statement about older, under achieving RB and offensive lineman.

Three I luv ya man. But did you just call Turner a scat back?

painekiller
10-01-2007, 06:38 AM
Three I luv ya man. But did you just call Turner a scat back?

I'm with you on this one, but I am not in favor of giving Turner all that money, and I bet Smith/Kubiak will think the same way.

Also I think the trouble at LT is overblown. If Spencer is not able to play LT again, but can play, he replaces Weary who is a FA after this year, IIRC. We currently are paying two guys to develop as LT, Butler and Frye, not saying either one is the answer, but if either one is the coaches should know by the next draft.

Also I think we need to give the coaches and new safeties time to figure each other out, we may have our safeties of the future in Boulware and Demps.

CB
RB
FS if Demps is a bust
OLB
OC to backup White if he starts or to push if White stumbles.
After that BPA.

Yankee_In_TX
10-01-2007, 10:07 AM
Cb! Cb! Cb! Cb! Cb! Cb!

tulexan
10-01-2007, 11:35 AM
The're not going to buy Turner. If they were going with a scat guy Quintan Griffen would already be on the roster.

There is a huge difference between Michael Turner and Quentin Griffin. Griffin hasn't played in the NFL since 2004 and is undersized. Turner is like the Matt Schaub of running backs and is one of the most sought after free agents even though he doesn't even start. He is also a big back at 5'10 235.

Now, do I think we will sign Turner? No, because he will probably be too expensive and there are some teams with huge holes at running back now like TB, GB, and NYG. Also, I think we will go after a running back in the first round because this draft is loaded with elite running backs (assuming top underclassmen declare) and one will fall to us where ever we pick.

Darren McFadden
Ray Rice
Mike Hart
Steve Slaton
Felix Jones

All of those guys are worth first round picks. McFadden will definitely be gone, but at least one of those other players will be available and probably a few of them. They would also all be upgrades to what we currently have at the position

real
10-01-2007, 11:39 AM
In this draft I'd be more inclined to take the best DB available in the first and drafting a good young talented RB in the third...

But there are so many variables that it makes it hard to say...

Vinny
10-01-2007, 11:41 AM
Three I luv ya man. But did you just call Turner a scat back?
stuff like that tends to destroy one's credibility when it comes to the analytical spewage methinks.

The1ApplePie
10-01-2007, 11:48 AM
Just take an RB in the 1st already. Turner has been around for a while, and his "Shelf Life" is about half over.

Cb
RB
Olb

3 biggest priorities right now.

Errant Hothy
10-01-2007, 11:57 AM
Just take an RB in the 1st already. Turner has been around for a while, and his "Shelf Life" is about half over.

Cb
RB
Olb

3 biggest priorities right now.

The determining factor in the playing lenght of an NFL RB is carries not years. I'd be willing to bet of all the RBs drafted in the same round or higher as Turner, and who are still in the NFL, Turner has the fewest carries.

I'm not saying that Turner is the answer here, just that I don't think one can call say that his "Shelf Life" (? why not just say career) is half over.

By that reasoning so would Schaub's.

tulexan
10-01-2007, 12:18 PM
I think what it's going to come down to is whether we can get Turner for a price that is similar or cheaper to what we would pay our first round draft pick.

Goldensilence
10-01-2007, 01:54 PM
I think what it's going to come down to is whether we can get Turner for a price that is similar or cheaper to what we would pay our first round draft pick.

I think that's a reasonable call. My hope is Slaton whom i think would be a perfect fit for what we're trying to do offensively.

I think once this PUP list is up we'll know what we're going to do at LT. I just don't have much hope at this point that Spencer will be able to resume his career from my understanding he's lucky to be walking properly.I like Frye's Raw talent and was glad he made it through waivers. Great athlete and made fit for ZBS. We need an answer at C though. With McKinney going down and Flannigan not looking like he's going to make it White might get some time there or hell might rotate Weary there and get Studdard some PT.Either way it's a spot that needs to be addressed.

I have a feeling we'll go after one of the CB's in FA. Asomaugha is the guy i'd go after as opposed to Samuels.NE guys make me nervous in their (lack of) success post NE.

BigTimeTexanFan
10-02-2007, 12:55 PM
Thank God we actually have money to work with this year considering we have no 2nd. I thinkour biggest needs are at RB, help on the o-line and help in the secondary. I'm hoping we can fill some of our most pressing holes in the secondary (FS,CB) and oline (C) via free agency considering the learning curve at those positions. In the draft we can look at RB and LB.

BigTimeTexanFan
10-02-2007, 12:56 PM
Does anyone know where I can find a list of possible free agents after this year?

swtbound07
10-02-2007, 01:10 PM
we start CC freaking Brown. If the answer to this question isn't FS in the 1st round, I don't know what is.

YoungTexanFan
10-02-2007, 05:27 PM
Thank God we actually have money to work with this year considering we have no 2nd. I thinkour biggest needs are at RB, help on the o-line and help in the secondary. I'm hoping we can fill some of our most pressing holes in the secondary (FS,CB) and oline (C) via free agency considering the learning curve at those positions. In the draft we can look at RB and LB.

I believe in buying certain positions through FA, such as CB, LB, and occasionaly a OG/OC. There are positions where the talent pool will always be thin on premier positions such as RB and OT, and FS, and quality Dline. These are positions you must address through the draft. You will not see a LJ or LT or Stephen Jackson or a Willie Parker or a Westbrook ever hit the FA market in their prime. You will never see a Pace or a Walters hit the FA market in their prime. You will never see an Ed Reed or a Dawkins or a Landry or a Mathis hit the FA market in their prime. You take your chances and draft them. The only players at these positons you will find are the guys like Salaam and Wade or a Green (servicable stop gap at best, and at best for a year) or a Boluware.

kastofsna
10-02-2007, 05:42 PM
well, you rarely find the elite at any position available in free agency.

YoungTexanFan
10-02-2007, 06:07 PM
well, you rarely find the elite at any position available in free agency.

not just elite, i mean starter quality. not career backups expected to contribute on our team. CB's, LB's, OG's usually have at least 1-2 quality starters available, those are the guys you buy in FA. Not necesiarly elite, but starter level.

badboy
10-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Having $30 million to spend is nice but what will be available is going to be important this season in F/A. I do not see how outside LB is a more pressing need than FS or even RB for that matter. If Spencer does not make it back at a high level, LT has to be addressed in some manner next season.

real
10-03-2007, 03:48 PM
Having $30 million to spend is nice but what will be available is going to be important this season in F/A. I do not see how outside LB is a more pressing need than FS or even RB for that matter. If Spencer does not make it back at a high level, LT has to be addressed in some manner next season.

Was DT a more pressing need that FS or CB last year? Was DT a more pressing need than reciever ?

I'd rather not pass on a potential all-pro type player at OLB to reach for a DB in a class that is DB thin...

If DB is such a big weakness then we need to spend big bucks to bring someone in F/agency...We will have the money to do it...

rollinstone18
10-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Having $30 million to spend is nice but what will be available is going to be important this season in F/A. I do not see how outside LB is a more pressing need than FS or even RB for that matter. If Spencer does not make it back at a high level, LT has to be addressed in some manner next season.

Is it really $30 mil? If so we could afford Faneca AND Samuel. That'd kick ass. Addressing OL and CB prior to the draft would definitely allow some flexibility with our options.

real
10-03-2007, 04:10 PM
I knowone thing....

this next off-season should be plenty exciting...

badboy
10-03-2007, 04:44 PM
Was DT a more pressing need that FS or CB last year? Was DT a more pressing need than reciever ?

I'd rather not pass on a potential all-pro type player at OLB to reach for a DB in a class that is DB thin...

If DB is such a big weakness then we need to spend big bucks to bring someone in F/agency...We will have the money to do it...I agree that it is great to grab a potential all pro, but we have not been able to address LT, CB and FS for 3 years. These are extremely important positions. So is OLB but our staff there is not inadequate. $30 m is great but as I said earlier what is available in FA? When I researched this a month or so ago I was not impressed. If Bennett, who has the speed and size, can be our #2 starter in 08, great. If Spencer will be our LT starter in 08 even better. Neither of those are much better than 50/50 now.We can do well with LB crew we have. IMO we must get better at FS and CB and in 2008 Salaam should not be the go to guy. I am cautious on Green in 08 at RB but that is a bigger ?mark.

badboy
10-03-2007, 04:46 PM
Is it really $30 mil? If so we could afford Faneca AND Samuel. That'd kick ass. Addressing OL and CB prior to the draft would definitely allow some flexibility with our options.$30 million is correct but on Samuel was there not some questions on him being good enough to justify the salary he might draw?

real
10-03-2007, 04:51 PM
I agree that it is great to grab a potential all pro, but we have not been able to address LT, CB and FS for 3 years.





If there is an OLB who's talent level is vastly superior to any talent left on the board you want us to reach for a LT, FS or CB ?

I'll pass on that methodology.

I have more faith in this coaching staff than that, but I respect your view point...

badboy
10-03-2007, 04:54 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html

Go to bottom and we are at almost $35 million under on this unofficial guestimate.

badboy
10-03-2007, 04:59 PM
If there is an OLB who's talent level is vastly superior to any talent left on the board you want us to reach for a LT, FS or CB ?

I'll pass on that methodology.

I have more faith in this coaching staff than that, but I respect your view point...Yes, that is what I am saying exactly. OLB is not a hole, desert or any other term you choose. I am not saying it is a strength like Dunte @ CB but you do not hve to have two probowlers at LB. CB/FS is killing us. We have not been able to cover it up. LT has been discussed as being one of two most important positions. Salaam was never meant to be the starter. Spencer was to be the man. Green is the man for 07 & maybe 08. That was the plan. Any of these positions has to have priority over OLB regardless of who is available in my view.

real
10-03-2007, 05:10 PM
Wow.

Well, good luck with that.

badboy
10-03-2007, 05:21 PM
Wow.

Well, good luck with that.Can you defend your position? I am interested but going home soon.

real
10-03-2007, 06:02 PM
Can you defend your position? I am interested but going home soon.

If you have more 5 star players than your opposition your chances are going to be better.

It's better to be Great somewher than o.k everywhere.

YoungTexanFan
10-03-2007, 06:37 PM
Was DT a more pressing need that FS or CB last year? Was DT a more pressing need than reciever ?

I'd rather not pass on a potential all-pro type player at OLB to reach for a DB in a class that is DB thin...

If DB is such a big weakness then we need to spend big bucks to bring someone in F/agency...We will have the money to do it...

1st round/early second round talent CB's: Cason, Talib, King, Jenkins, Dribble, Dwight Lowery, Mike Jenkins, Terrell Thomas, and potentially Cromitare from Mid Tenn St. I believe.

1st/early second round S's: Kenny Phillips, Reggie Smith, Jonathan Hefney

Don't tell me this class is thin at DB. Study the class some. This is the deepest DB class we have seen in years.

Landing any of these guys at our position (I'm projecting picking between 14-19) is not reaching at all, and help out at our weakest spots: Cason, King, Jenkins, Dribble, Phillips, Smith. Any of those guys presents great value at our greatest position of need.

real
10-03-2007, 06:41 PM
Don't tell me this class is thin at DB. Study the class some. This is the deepest DB class we have seen in years.



"Studying" draft classes is quite lame.... and...well.....useless...:loser


I think I'll continue to watch the games and feel things out for myself.


But thanks for the advice.


Edit: LOL...I just looked at your list of "1st and 2nd round DB's".....oh man...good times...

YoungTexanFan
10-03-2007, 06:52 PM
"Studying" draft classes is quite lame.... and...well.....useless...:loser


I think I'll continue to watch the games and feel things out for myself.


But thanks for the advice.


Edit: LOL...I just looked at your list of "1st and 2nd round DB's".....oh man...good times...

1st round/early second round talent CB's:
Cason - A easy first round projection right now.
Talib - Great size, production, and ability. Mid 1st rounder as of now
King - The best pure cover corner. Could be first CB taken
Jenkins - Good cover CB, good school, late first rounder
Dribble - Pretty NFL ready, late first/early second
Dwight Lowery - project with great measurables. second rounder
Mike Jenkins - very solid CB, early to mid second rounder
Terrell Thomas - only thing keeping him from first round is timed speed.
Cromitare - incredible measurables, but major project. second rounder

1st/early second round S's:
Kenny Phillips - the next great S from the U. Top 10 pick.
Reggie Smith - underrated, but a solid second rounder
Jonathan Hefney - Mid second rounder

YoungTexanFan
10-03-2007, 06:55 PM
"Studying" draft classes is quite lame.... and...well.....useless...:loser


I think I'll continue to watch the games and feel things out for myself.


But thanks for the advice.


Edit: LOL...I just looked at your list of "1st and 2nd round DB's".....oh man...good times...

Also, studying the draft class involves watchin an incredible amount of game film, over and over agian. And no, studying the prospects and grading them based on evaluations from games and testing is not lame, it is professional. My reputation for evaluating prospects well ahead of time is very good, check some of the archives.

kastofsna
10-03-2007, 08:51 PM
why bother talking to real, he'll have his own ignorant opinion, then call you a loser for knowing more than the average fan should know. yawn, waste of time.

real
10-03-2007, 10:03 PM
why bother talking to real, he'll have his own ignorant opinion, then call you a loser for knowing more than the average fan should know. yawn, waste of time.


Signed,






The self proclaimed "Draft expert"


LOL....

beerlover
10-03-2007, 10:30 PM
y'all have valid points that need to be taken as solid opinions, track records only are as good as tomorrow but both Kastofsna & YTF are very passionate about their love for the NFL draft process & its farm system, the NCAA. even if I don't agree with them I'll stop & read everytime because they usually have a good reason/take 99% of this board would be wise to heed :)

real
10-04-2007, 01:57 AM
Also, studying the draft class involves watchin an incredible amount of game film, over and over agian. And no, studying the prospects and grading them based on evaluations from games and testing is not lame, it is professional. My reputation for evaluating prospects well ahead of time is very good, check some of the archives.

Here's a dandy from '06:


As far as LB's are concerned...Ryans is a great LB, but he is not big enough to handle the Mike spot. He is better off on the strongside at Sam. I know he played Will in college, but I think his instincts will lead better to Sam. I feel that a stud MLB like H. Blades or Polznuezy or my favorite Buster Davis, would really help our defense out the most. Greenwood is gone after this year I believe, Wong's contract is up I believe as well.


I found others that were funny too. Won't post them because there is no need.

We are all wrong from time to time. Honestly, there isn't one person I've read who I would say has been 100% on their "predictions". I don't know about your track record, but I know you have a lot of post like that and a lot of post that I just totally disagree with. I probably have a lot of them as well....We all probably do. No biggie.

But I'll tell you one thing...I said Buster Davis would flop coming into the NFL...Check on that...

YoungTexanFan
10-04-2007, 02:01 AM
Here's a dandy from '06:



I found others that were funny too. Won't post them because there is no need.

We are all wrong from time to time. Honestly, there isn't one person I've read who I would say has been 100% on their "predictions". I don't know about your track record, but I know you have a lot of post like that and a lot of post that I just totally disagree with. I probably have a lot of them as well....We all probably do. No biggie.

But I'll tell you one thing...I said Buster Davis would flop coming into the NFL...Check on that...


And I still feel Ryans would be better on the outside if we had a better MLB. Upgrade two positions. Ryans has proven to do well at MIKE, but I could still project him to the outside.

real
10-04-2007, 02:03 AM
And I still feel Ryans would be better on the outside if we had a better MLB. Upgrade two positions. Ryans has proven to do well at MIKE, but I could still project him to the outside.

Great. Ignore the huge elephant in the room.

It's late I'm going to sleep. Keep studying that film though.

threetoedpete
10-04-2007, 06:07 AM
Was DT a more pressing need that FS or CB last year? Was DT a more pressing need than reciever ?

I'd rather not pass on a potential all-pro type player at OLB to reach for a DB in a class that is DB thin...

If DB is such a big weakness then we need to spend big bucks to bring someone in F/agency...We will have the money to do it...

This is what I'm thinking also. I watched Demps who is suposed to be a prospect at free saftey from UTEP. However I was not impressed. So You got a board loooooaded with linebackers and o-lineman and running backs....small running backs. But few Free safties at the top of the board. Here they are knock you self out finding someone who'll beat out C.C. Brown.

http://www.gbnreport.com/2008prospects.html

*Kenny Phillips, 6-1, 205, Miami
Quintin Demps, 6-0, 205, UTEP
*Nic Harris, 6-2, 225, Oklahoma
Josh Barrett, 6-2, 230, Arizona State
Roger Williams, 6-0, 200, Florida State
Eric Weeks, 6-0, 205, West Virginia
Tyrrell Herbert, 6-1, 190, Toledo
Dom Barber, 6-0, 210, Minnesota
Ron Girault, 5-11, 200, Rutgers
Jonathan Hefney, 5-9, 185, Tennessee(CB)
Charles Godfrey, 6-0, 210, Iowa (CB)
Marcus Watts, 6-1, 185, Kansas State
Khayyam Burns, 6-0, 185, Arkansas State
Quinton Gooch, 6-0, 195, BYU
Ryan Mundy, 6-0, 205, West Virginia
Darien Williams, 5-11, 200, Oklahoma
Husain Abdullah, 6-0, 180, Washington State
Steve Tate, 5-11, 200, Utah
Dennis Keyes, 6-1, 195, UCLA
Jamie Silva, 5-11, 205, Boston College
Jamal Lewis, 6-0, 200, Georgia Tech
Damon Nickson, 5-11, 180, Middle Tennessee State (CB)
Will Dunbar, 6-0, 195, Alabama-Birmingham
Marcus Carter, 5-11, 200, Alabama
Tierre Green, 6-0, 200, Nebraska
Mchael Grant, 5-11, 185, Arkansas (CB)
Bobby Giannini, 6-1, 210, Air Force
Ray Bass, 5-11, 195, San Diego State
Kevin Mitchell, 5-11, 200, Illinois
Kyle Jackson, 6-0, 205, Florida
Thomas DeCoud, 6-2, 195, California
Marcus Watts, 6-0, 190, Kansas State (XHp/Wr)
Taheem Acevedo, 6-0, 220, Florida Atlantic (XAn)
Joe Fields, 6-1, 210, Syracuse
Marty Tadman, 5-10, 185, Boise State
Reggie McPherson, 6-0, 200, Northwestern
Kareem Byron, 5-10, 200, Buffalo
Eddie Burk, 5-10, 202, Ball State
D.J. Parker, 5-10, 195, Virginia Tech
Antwain Allen, 6-1, 215, Western Michigan
Mike Phillips, 5-10, 200, Pittsburgh
LeVance Richmond, 5-11, 195, Southern Mississippi
Tony Ward, 5-11, 200, Ohio
Justin Sanders, 6-0, 205, Illinois
Chris Smith, 5-9, 180, Idaho
Joseph Gonzales, 5-10, 200, Houston
Ryan Depalo, 6-0, 205, Oregon
Chris Parsons, 6-0, 185, Northern Iowa
Brett Shlton, 6-0, 205, Sacramento State
Jamarcus Wiggins, 6-1, 205, Delta State
Joe Gaston, 5-10, 195, Georgia Tech (XKa)

real
10-04-2007, 10:00 AM
I can't believe we agreed on something.wow.

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2007, 10:40 AM
1st round/early second round talent CB's:
Cason - A easy first round projection right now.
Talib - Great size, production, and ability. Mid 1st rounder as of now
King - The best pure cover corner. Could be first CB taken
Jenkins - Good cover CB, good school, late first rounder
Dribble - Pretty NFL ready, late first/early second
Dwight Lowery - project with great measurables. second rounder
Mike Jenkins - very solid CB, early to mid second rounder
Terrell Thomas - only thing keeping him from first round is timed speed.
Cromitare - incredible measurables, but major project. second rounder

1st/early second round S's:
Kenny Phillips - the next great S from the U. Top 10 pick.
Reggie Smith - underrated, but a solid second rounder
Jonathan Hefney - Mid second rounder

Thanks for detailing what each of their strengths are. This will help me watch them. If we go CB in the 1st round, we better as heck get a guy who will start game 1, I don't want a project cb because that's what Bennet might be. I like Bennets size and think if he develops he could be real good for us.

We'll see how things change over the season, but thanks for the early projection on rounds. Of course there are going to be guys from this list that flop and other guys that come on strong. After pure speculation at this point by me, it could be wise to trade down, recoup a pick or two, select a solid player to play FS. That of course is if there is not decent LT or RB or even DB to select at our orig. spot.


As far as Demeco goes... This is a big debate that really doesn't matter. I was a HUGE fan of drafting Patrick Willis to play Mike and moving Demeco outside. I got slammed for this. Demeco has played extremely well at mike. His size doesn't seem to be a factor one bit now- but over the course of his career could it shorten it at all? I don't have any doubt in my mind Demeco would excel playing outside. ESPECIALLY if we had a dominant mike next to him. Look how Willis is playing- if they run up the middle they aren't getting anywhere...if the run outside they may have to face Demeco who is quick and a heck of a tackler- who'se also a great blitzer. Having another stud LB would only help Demeco out. (I'm not upset with the pick of Okoye, i love it, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would rather have Rookie Patrick Willis and 2nd year Demeco Ryans for my franchise than Lance Briggs and Brian Urlacher. We would have arguably the best LB tandem in the league and they oldest just turned 23 years old in July) I don't want to sound like I'm harping on the last years draft at all- just stating a case where I would support moving demeco outside, which many fans cannot fathom-which is also understandable!

badboy
10-04-2007, 11:02 AM
If you have more 5 star players than your opposition your chances are going to be better.

It's better to be Great somewher than o.k everywhere.
Offense:

QB Matt Schaub best available when we traded for him
WR Andre Johnson 1st round and many multi pro bowler
RB Ahmad Green best F/A available
TE Owen Daniels started his rookie season
RT Eric Winston starter
LG Chester Pitts rookie starter
KR Jerome Mathis pro bowler
WR/PR Jacoby Jones electrifying player that many project to be starting #2
Punter Matt Turk avg 44.3 with net 40.1 longest 59 yds

Defense:

DT Travis Johnson 1st round
DT Amobi Okoye 1st round just named DROM
DE Anthony Weaver best FA available
DE Mario Williams 1st round
CB Dunte Robinson probably should have gone to pro bowl rookie year on pace to do so this year.
MLB Demeco Ryans starter rookie year and DROY

My point here is that all above are not 5 A players but offer a very good nucleus and we have some very glaring holes that directly impacts our W/L column. IMO CB, FS and LT need to be addressed with a solid player before we go after a 5 A for a position like OLB. We also need to address center.

real
10-04-2007, 04:44 PM
My point here is that all above are not 5 A players but offer a very good nucleus and we have some very glaring holes that directly impacts our W/L column.


If only the game of football were that simple...

If your view point held true the Ravens would have never won the superbowl because they would have reached for a QB or Reciever instead of taking those stud defensive players.

You don't pass up studs to reach for lesser talented players. Otherwise we might have Dwayne Bowe instead of Amobi.

And I know a lot of people wanted Revis. I like Revis a lot, but I think Amobi will prove to be much more valuable. This guy is going to be so good it's ridiculous.

We had enough D-linemen last year. We were obviously hurting for Running backs, DB's, Recievers and OL....

We didn't take any of those things because Amobi was deemed to be the best talent left on the board...Coach Kubiak said they had Amobi as their top defensive players...

Not sure how you guys aren't seeing the process....

badboy
10-04-2007, 05:01 PM
If only the game of football were that simple...

If your view point held true the Ravens would have never won the superbowl because they would have reached for a QB or Reciever instead of taking those stud defensive players.

You don't pass up studs to reach for lesser talented players. Otherwise we might have Dwayne Bowe instead of Amobi.

And I know a lot of people wanted Revis. I like Revis a lot, but I think Amobi will prove to be much more valuable. This guy is going to be so good it's ridiculous.

We had enough D-linemen last year. We were obviously hurting for Running backs, DB's, Recievers and OL....

We didn't take any of those things because Amobi was deemed to be the best talent left on the board...Coach Kubiak said they had Amobi as their top defensive players...

Not sure how you guys aren't seeing the process....

I see the process just don't necessarily agree with it. There are times to take best player available, but again in my opinion we don't need an OLB. Forget other teams and Okoye for a second. Do we need an OLB on THIS team more than we need an #2 CB, FS and maybe an LT? That is what I am saying.

real
10-04-2007, 05:14 PM
I see the process just don't necessarily agree with it. There are times to take best player available, but again in my opinion we don't need an OLB. Forget other teams and Okoye for a second. Do we need an OLB on THIS team more than we need an #2 CB, FS and maybe an LT? That is what I am saying.

Lets say right now the the Bears offered us Brian Urlacher or Nathan Vasher.


Are you telling me you take Vasher ?

badboy
10-05-2007, 10:53 AM
Lets say right now the the Bears offered us Brian Urlacher or Nathan Vasher.


Are you telling me you take Vasher ?No. At 4.96 in 40 he (Vasher) has strong safety speed. Give me a CB with something under 4.50 or even a Jimmy Williams at 6'3" 216 in last year's draft and I go that way over Urlacher.

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2006/players/cornerbacks.htm
You have to understand my point. I am not saying Urlacher or other LB would not improve team. OLB is not our biggest hole and imo not even in top 3 maybe 4. And before anyone says these CBs were not available, neither is Urlacher.

He would immediately be the heaviest LB on team and while a monster close to the line, would he fit in our defense and be a plus at falling back to cover a pass? A Sports Illustrated poll in 2006 of 361 NFL players named Urlacher as 2nd most over rated player in NFL. I think he is great, but not needed more than a good CB or LT.

real
10-05-2007, 10:54 AM
Jimmy Williams over Urlacher ?

oooooooookkk........

We just have different philosophies...

No biggie...

bah007
10-05-2007, 12:31 PM
No. At 4.96 in 40 he (Vasher) has strong safety speed. Give me a CB with something under 4.50 or even a Jimmy Williams at 6'3" 216 in last year's draft and I go that way over Urlacher.

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2006/players/cornerbacks.htm
You have to understand my point. I am not saying Urlacher or other LB would not improve team. OLB is not our biggest hole and imo not even in top 3 maybe 4. And before anyone says these CBs were not available, neither is Urlacher.

He would immediately be the heaviest LB on team and while a monster close to the line, would he fit in our defense and be a plus at falling back to cover a pass? A Sports Illustrated poll in 2006 of 361 NFL players named Urlacher as 2nd most over rated player in NFL. I think he is great, but not needed more than a good CB or LT.

Who clocked him? A blind guy?

I ran faster than that my freshman year in high school.

Vasher ran a 4.49 & 4.52 at the combine in 04.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=58836

real
10-05-2007, 12:38 PM
i would. if our linebackers are a 7, and urlacher is a 9 then we've only improved by 2.

if our corners are a 4 and vasher is a 7 we've improved by 3.

these are just bs numbers i'm making up to prove a point. i'm all for best player available, but not to the point were you add on to a position that you don't need. you wouldn't take another stud rb if you already had barry sanders...


I am glad that you guys don't draft for us.

Otherwise we probably wouldn't have Mario, Demeco, Amobi, Jacoby, Owen ect...ect....

We'd prablably have Leon Hall, Josh Gattis and Kenny Irons....or some other lesser talented players...

Errant Hothy
10-05-2007, 01:39 PM
There are only one position that should be exepmt from a draft philosphoy of BPA all the time. That is QB. Other then that you draft the BPA available at all time, regardless of position. At least that's how I feel about it.

But everybody and every team has a different viewpoint.

real
10-05-2007, 02:04 PM
so you guys are saying that if we had to pick between a stud free safety or a slighty studlier wide reciever you would ignore the hole we have and add depth to where we already have depth because the wide reciever is a better player? that's a questionable call, debatable to say the least...i as well am glad that i don't have to draft anybody. i'm also glad you guys don't do it either. the guy you pick needs to be the best player available to a point, and that point is he also needs to be filling a need.

Using your logic the Vikings take Ted Ginn or Dwayne Bowe over Adrian Peterson because they already had Chester Taylor and they don't have much at reciever.

Again...I am glad you guys aren't drafting for us...

Errant Hothy
10-05-2007, 02:23 PM
Using your logic the Vikings take Ted Ginn or Dwayne Bowe over Adrian Peterson because they already had Chester Taylor and they don't have much at reciever.

Again...I am glad you guys aren't drafting for us...

Exactly why you do not draft for need. Teams who draft for need tend to "reach" for draft picks. Another exaample is all the DBs the Cowboys drafted around 2000, I think they drafted 4 total. None are currently on the roster.

real
10-05-2007, 02:45 PM
And by the way...

I never said that you ALWAYS draft BPA....

I'm talking about for the purposes of our team...

If there is an OLB with top level talent and there is a pretty good drop off in the players after him, I have no doubt in my mind that Kubiak and Co. would take him...

badboy
10-05-2007, 02:53 PM
And by the way...

I never said that you ALWAYS draft BPA....

I'm talking about for the purposes of our team...

If there is an OLB with top level talent and there is a pretty good drop off in the players after him, I have no doubt in my mind that Kubiak and Co. would take him...I basically agree and think that is what the Texans were thinking when they went with Okoye when Safeties and Corners were available. It would be interesting if we could figuratively subtract Okoye and enter a CB or FS in the first round pick. How would the games have been effected? Would we have lost to Atlanta? Maybe some of you would give your ratings of our OLB, LT, #2 CB, FS, Center and #2 WR spots on this team and how you saw these spots prior to last draft?
For me BPA works unless you have a glaring hole at a position that can cost you a game or injury to your QB. And that glaring hole(s) we do have and it is not OLB.

YoungTexanFan
10-05-2007, 03:18 PM
And by the way...

I never said that you ALWAYS draft BPA....

I'm talking about for the purposes of our team...

If there is an OLB with top level talent and there is a pretty good drop off in the players after him, I have no doubt in my mind that Kubiak and Co. would take him...

Well, you have been arguing that point for a page or two now. For the purposes of our team, there isn't a OLB that is head and shoulders above the class. This is a very deep LB class as well. If a few players grade out to be very similar, there are two common stratigies to take: You take the player at the position of need...or you follow the Parcells method if they are at the same position: Take the bigger guy.

I've never supported reaching for anyone, but I do believe in taking a position of need in the first round if he grades out to be worth the pick. I would have taken AD over Okoye or Ginn or a lot of people if he had fallen, even with Green, and that is because he is that much better than anyone at his position or on the board at that point. However, already looking at this draft, both DB and LB are deep, and there should be a few guys who grade out fairly equally, and we need to take the more pressing need.

threetoedpete
10-05-2007, 03:41 PM
Here's a dandy from '06:



I found others that were funny too. Won't post them because there is no need.

We are all wrong from time to time. Honestly, there isn't one person I've read who I would say has been 100% on their "predictions". I don't know about your track record, but I know you have a lot of post like that and a lot of post that I just totally disagree with. I probably have a lot of them as well....We all probably do. No biggie.

But I'll tell you one thing...I said Buster Davis would flop coming into the NFL...Check on that...



Well, i'm scambling to watch as many games as I can. I know for a fact that Demps is not a signifcant up grade over what we got.

If you're looking for big corners to convert, there are a few up there. I would love for them to move down and take a great OLT prospect. Get a third or something back. They've done well on the second day the last two drafts. Can we acuratly say now that WR's 3-5 or six is no longer a chronic probelm ?

And out side of team speed, the speciall teams have improved ?

I see a lot of o-line guys available. I see a lot of very athletic highly regaurded, playmaking LBs on the board. And unless a castastrophy happens
we're not going to get McFaddin. I also believe J.J. in Dallas would give anthing, do anything to get McFaddin. He get's that beast behind what the already have on the o-line, no one in the NFC will catch them...for several years.

It's going to be sooner rather than later when we see what Bennit has. The main question is not who is available or what tallent is there in the first. The main question is which way is this head coach going to take his defense. I believe our starting safties are already on the team for '08. Which would make the tallent level availble in '08 at DB an achedmeic exersise at best. They're going resign or tag Robinson and go buy a CB. My guess is he'll sort the safties next summer. Outside the CB I don't believe DBs are on their first round shopping list at all. My evidence is Gattis. He was rated last year as a FS a notch below Nelson and Meriweather. They could of had him already for the waiver wire price and a roster chop. I think no matter what coach speak is being said in front of the microphones, Petey is destined as soon as they can to the bench. I think the safty position is just one of those cap philosophy things. They aren't going to pay first round money to a front line safty. They believe they can get what they want out of the position and great value with prospects or cast offs. I dunno and I ain't in the room...

badboy
10-05-2007, 03:59 PM
Well, i'm scambling to watch as many games as I can. I know for a fact that Demps is not a signifcant up grade over what we got.

If you're looking for big corners to convert, there are a few up there. I would love for them to move down and take a great OLT prospect. Get a third or something back. They've done well on the second day the last two drafts. Can we acuratly say now that WR's 3-5 or six is no longer a chronic probelm ?

And out side of team speed, the speciall teams have improved ?

I see a lot of o-line guys available. I see a lot of very athletic highly regaurded, playmaking LBs on the board. And unless a castastrophy happens
we're not going to get McFaddin. I also believe J.J. in Dallas would give anthing, do anything to get McFaddin. He get's that beast behind what the already have on the o-line, no one in the NFC will catch them...for several years.

It's going to be sooner rather than later when we see what Bennit has. The main question is not who is available or what tallent is there in the first. The main question is which way is this head coach going to take his defense. I believe our starting safties are already on the team for '08. Which would make the tallent level availble in '08 at DB an achedmeic exersise at best. They're going resign or tag Robinson and go buy a CB. My guess is he'll sort the safties next summer. Outside the CB I don't believe DBs are on their first round shopping list at all. My evidence is Gattis. He was rated last year as a FS a notch below Nelson and Meriweather. They could of had him already for the waiver wire price and a roster chop. I think no matter what coach speak is being said in front of the microphones, Petey is destined as soon as they can to the bench. I think the safty position is just one of those cap philosophy things. They aren't going to pay first round money to a front line safty. They believe they can get what they want out of the position and great value with prospects or cast offs. I dunno and I ain't in the room...

If we can come up with a sound CB, that lessens the need for a premium FS. That was the thinking when Texans trade for PB. Did not work out but thinking was sound imo.

infantrycak
10-05-2007, 04:54 PM
Outside the CB I don't believe DBs are on their first round shopping list at all. My evidence is Gattis. He was rated last year as a FS a notch below Nelson and Meriweather. They could of had him already for the waiver wire price and a roster chop.

Your evidence for the Texans being unwilling to use a 1st round pick is Josh Gattis? C'mon--dude went in the 5th round and was then cut by the team that drafted him. The only thing he is proof of is that draftniks get little internet woodies over players that NFL coaches and GM's evaluate much differently. 32 NFL teams rated him a whole lot lower than a notch below Nelson and Meriweather. I see no proof the Texans won't spend a 1st on a safety in the fact that they didn't use a 3rd, 4th or 5th on a guy hanging onto the league by his fingernails.

Battle Red Flash
10-05-2007, 05:14 PM
1. FS
2. RB
3. O-line (Any All American will do.)
4. CB

real
10-06-2007, 12:43 AM
However, already looking at this draft, both DB and LB are deep, and there should be a few guys who grade out fairly equally, and we need to take the more pressing need.

And that's where our disagreement lies...


I don't agree with your draft grades nor your talent evaluation...

rollinstone18
10-08-2007, 01:48 PM
After Week 5

1. RB
2. OL
3. FS
4. DE/DT/LB (Anyone who can effectively pass rush)

real
10-08-2007, 01:57 PM
bpa unless bpa leaves you with the same weaknesses your team had the year before. blindly choosing bpa is not progress. marginally improving a team is not what the draft is for.


This conversation is pointless.


I clearly explained myself and have even stated several times that BPA isn't always the best thing to do, but that should be common sense.

I'm talking about our LB corps....If there is a stud OLB availaible that is much better than the rest of the talent left in the draft...I personally think we'd take him...

That's pretty much the end of this for me...

bah007
10-08-2007, 02:07 PM
This conversation is pointless.


I clearly explained myself and have even stated several times that BPA isn't always the best thing to do, but that should be common sense.

I'm talking about our LB corps....If there is a stud OLB availaible that is much better than the rest of the talent left in the draft...I personally think we'd take him...

That's pretty much the end of this for me...

I like Dan Connor (Penn St) for that.

In 6 games he has 58 tackles, 9 TFL, 4 sacks, & 5 PBU.

beerlover
10-08-2007, 02:35 PM
the more games the Texans win the more subjective it gets so drafting for need becomes more palpable. I hope we win a bunch more games so the Texans can just go out & draft the best possible talent that fits their scheme and address the most pressing needs.

right now there is no way to say who that will be or what position he plays. I don't see this draft class as good as the past couple, however you just never know who the underclassman are that will submit for this years draft. for real upside & talent I'd hedge my bet we draft another very young & talented underclassman, so I'd focus mostly on that group as a whole :cool:

tulexan
10-08-2007, 03:34 PM
We need to get a young stud running back during the offseason. Whether it is from free agency or the draft, I don't care.

alphajoker
10-08-2007, 04:56 PM
FG Kicker

Do you think we still need a FG Kicker?

beerlover
10-08-2007, 05:13 PM
We need to get a young stud running back during the offseason. Whether it is from free agency or the draft, I don't care.

there's about one week left to make a trade this year. remember last week I was hopeful Rick Smith might inquire about Michael Turner, now he pops a buck 47 in the Chargers win :shades:

Exithios
10-08-2007, 05:34 PM
there's about one week left to make a trade this year. remember last week I was hopeful Rick Smith might inquire about Michael Turner, now he pops a buck 47 in the Chargers win :shades:

I would be for a trade concerning the acquisition of Michael Turner but I think we are running thin of currency and I am sure he wouldn't come cheap. No way would I give up a 1st rounder, maybe a 3rd and Jerome Mathis...

Giant Tiger
10-08-2007, 06:24 PM
Put me in the trade down camp. We need a 2nd rounder. I want to see
LT
RB
FS
C
Should go for bpa if FS class is thin. Not against OLB either.

threetoedpete
10-09-2007, 02:22 AM
Your evidence for the Texans being unwilling to use a 1st round pick is Josh Gattis? C'mon--dude went in the 5th round and was then cut by the team that drafted him. The only thing he is proof of is that draftniks get little internet woodies over players that NFL coaches and GM's evaluate much differently. 32 NFL teams rated him a whole lot lower than a notch below Nelson and Meriweather. I see no proof the Texans won't spend a 1st on a safety in the fact that they didn't use a 3rd, 4th or 5th on a guy hanging onto the league by his fingernails.

No that wan't what I was tring to bring together. What i was tring to say is if the Texans wanted this type of Free safty....NOW...in the current season....they could of already had him.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/nflcombineprofile.php?pyid=11828

There is only one and if the Texans hold true to course and do not go into the tank....free safty will be a pipe dream in the first round. Kenny Phillips will go top ten. We shouldn't be there. So what we are talking about here is a second teired guy...exactly like Gattis. And if they didn't pick one in rounds 4-6 last draft....why would they do it in '08 ? Especailly in the first after the gravy is already off the board ?

http://www.draftace.com/draft2008/mockdraftround1.htm

I'd be elated with this.

threetoedpete
10-09-2007, 02:27 AM
I like Dan Connor (Penn St) for that.

In 6 games he has 58 tackles, 9 TFL, 4 sacks, & 5 PBU.

The man is a beast. He out played Poz last season. He turned out ok.

beerlover
10-09-2007, 04:52 PM
I was thinking :lightbulb: what about a player in the 3rd rd. who can address multiple needs that we lack depth in, you know Kubiak likes that in his players? Specficly I was thinking of a skilled player to replace Mathis (can't stay healthy) who is a better WR & can also play some RB. kill three birds with one stone, heck maybe he could even play some corner if needed?

His name you already know & he plays here already for the Houston........Cougars, its Anthony Alridge. this guy has been durable, played all positions mentioned at one time or another & has electric speed, like low 4.3's. Just another name to throw in the hat but the idea is to limit one trick ponys & replace them with talent that can help you win games not only at his primary position but give you depth at others depending on injurys :ouch:

I'm almost sure he could grab the #4 WR slot, eventually moving to #3 behind Jacoby & Johnson. replace Mathis on kick-offs. play some slot back, end arounds, quick slants & provide speed to stretch the field.

badboy
10-09-2007, 05:24 PM
I was thinking :lightbulb: what about a player in the 3rd rd. who can address multiple needs that we lack depth in, you know Kubiak likes that in his players? Specficly I was thinking of a skilled player to replace Mathis (can't stay healthy) who is a better WR & can also play some RB. kill three birds with one stone, heck maybe he could even play some corner if needed?

His name you already know & he plays here already for the Houston........Cougars, its Anthony Alridge. this guy has been durable, played all positions mentioned at one time or another & has electric speed, like low 4.3's. Just another name to throw in the hat but the idea is to limit one trick ponys & replace them with talent that can help you win games not only at his primary position but give you depth at others depending on injurys :ouch:

I'm almost sure he could grab the #4 WR slot, eventually moving to #3 behind Jacoby & Johnson. replace Mathis on kick-offs. play some slot back, end arounds, quick slants & provide speed to stretch the field.

Is 3rd a little high for him? I see him as someone who can do a little of all you mentioned but not sure how he converts to NFL. I see him more as a scat back and did not know he played corner. Good speed but do not see him as the RB we need. Size @ 5'9" worries me and 175lbs. Speed, I could not find but I understand he is fast. I do not see him as a starter at any position and would not give a first day pick for a back up and ST player.

rmartin65
10-09-2007, 05:43 PM
Specficly I was thinking of a skilled player to replace Mathis (can't stay healthy) who is a better WR & can also play some RB.


There is a really late round guy, maybe even not draftable, by the name of Jayson Foster out of Georgia Southern. He was on my list as a kick returner/reciever, but was switched to QB and runs alot. He might be an interesting look.
107 carries for 882 yards (8.2) and 14 TD.

real
10-09-2007, 05:46 PM
I hope we don't take any recievers.

bah007
10-09-2007, 06:02 PM
I was thinking :lightbulb: what about a player in the 3rd rd. who can address multiple needs that we lack depth in, you know Kubiak likes that in his players? Specficly I was thinking of a skilled player to replace Mathis (can't stay healthy) who is a better WR & can also play some RB. kill three birds with one stone, heck maybe he could even play some corner if needed?

His name you already know & he plays here already for the Houston........Cougars, its Anthony Alridge. this guy has been durable, played all positions mentioned at one time or another & has electric speed, like low 4.3's. Just another name to throw in the hat but the idea is to limit one trick ponys & replace them with talent that can help you win games not only at his primary position but give you depth at others depending on injurys :ouch:

I'm almost sure he could grab the #4 WR slot, eventually moving to #3 behind Jacoby & Johnson. replace Mathis on kick-offs. play some slot back, end arounds, quick slants & provide speed to stretch the field.

I like Marcus Thigpen (Indiana) for that.

He is only a redshirt junior this year but I like his size (5-9, 195) a lot more.

He led the nation with a 30.1 KR Avg & 3 KR TDs last year.

He's touching the ball more as a RB this year than a WR or KR.

BigBull17
10-09-2007, 07:27 PM
I havent look and examined by position yet, but I would say trade down a bit to get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd or 4th. After that it goes:

1 LT- even if Spence is ok, you can never have enough good tackles
*2.RB- I wasnt big on drafting one so high until the Dayne/Gado/Cook experience... Groom w/ Green and then take over.
3. FS-We need a ball hawk playmaker. Tackling isnt as big for me as coverage/INT skills.
4. C- See also Tackles
5.- Cb depth-I know its one game, but Bennet looked ok out there. Thats all you expect from a guys first signifigant action.
6. BPA defensive depth
7. BPA maybe someone who can return kicks

beerlover
10-09-2007, 09:02 PM
Is 3rd a little high for him? I see him as someone who can do a little of all you mentioned but not sure how he converts to NFL. Good speed but do not see him as the RB we need. Size @ 5'9" worries me and 175lbs. Speed, I could not find but I understand he is fast. I do not see him as a starter at any position and would not give a first day pick for a back up and ST player.

as of now he is projected as a solid 3rd rd. pick, therefore not a reach at all & I listed reasons why he would be worth that pick even more to a team that needs to add depth & flexibilty like the Texans. he has the type of speed that kills, if anything I think he flies under the radar because of the program (small school status) but there should be plenty of Cougar fans here who can vouch for his explosive playmaking ability. sometimes we get to hung up on measureables and forget what a player brings on the field, & despite his stature or lack thereof he strikes me as a true team football player with Bob Sanders kind of :heart: & desire :cool:

beerlover
10-09-2007, 09:05 PM
I like Marcus Thigpen (Indiana) for that.

He is only a redshirt junior this year but I like his size (5-9, 195) a lot more.

He led the nation with a 30.1 KR Avg & 3 KR TDs last year.

He's touching the ball more as a RB this year than a WR or KR.

I'll check him out but he clearly lacks NFL return speed (4.5 forty) & is projected as a RB in the 7th rd. I would'nt mind that type of player at all which is exactly my point, sounds like someone to pay attention to in the latter rounds.

Texans Horror
10-10-2007, 12:46 AM
Just something that's been rattling around my head:

Assume that the new regime stays par for course. Running backs and offensive linemen no earlier than the third. Then assume Bennett checks out. It's a lot to assume for Week 6, but any draft discussion at this point will have to assume a lot. So while I'm at it, assume that the receiving corps also looks good by year's end. Hell, better than any year before.

That leaves defensive linemen, linebackers, and safeties. (Tight End is locked up.) I can't see the Texans taking a stud linebacker in the first round to play Will or Sam. Top-tier defensive backs fly during free agency. What I'm leading up to is the question - what would you think if the Texans drafted another Defensive End in the first round?

Note: I'm not talking about what I want to see on the roster or what the team needs most (I'm off-topic, I know). I'm just grazing through some of the trends I've seen.

real
10-10-2007, 02:09 AM
Just something that's been rattling around my head:

Assume that the new regime stays par for course. Running backs and offensive linemen no earlier than the third. Then assume Bennett checks out. It's a lot to assume for Week 6, but any draft discussion at this point will have to assume a lot. So while I'm at it, assume that the receiving corps also looks good by year's end. Hell, better than any year before.

That leaves defensive linemen, linebackers, and safeties. (Tight End is locked up.) I can't see the Texans taking a stud linebacker in the first round to play Will or Sam. Top-tier defensive backs fly during free agency. What I'm leading up to is the question - what would you think if the Texans drafted another Defensive End in the first round?

Note: I'm not talking about what I want to see on the roster or what the team needs most (I'm off-topic, I know). I'm just grazing through some of the trends I've seen.

You can see them taking a DE but not a LB ?

LOL...I guess...

beerlover
10-10-2007, 02:30 AM
You can see them taking a DE but not a LB ?

LOL...I guess...

you have to keep an open mind I guess :shades:

with the #1 pick now as it stands a very good cb will be available when the Texans pick. who that is remains to be seen, Rick Smith could shock us once again & take another small school talent with big time playmaking ability to develop like he did last year with Jacoby. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie of Tennessee State fills that mold but will take some time, his upside may be worth it, given the youth already on this team especially the defense the Texans could be really, really good in a couple more years.

with that thought in mind it could be a DE or a LB too but with an eye for the diamond in the rough :fortune:

badboy
10-10-2007, 10:33 AM
you have to keep an open mind I guess :shades:

with the #1 pick now as it stands a very good cb will be available when the Texans pick. who that is remains to be seen, Rick Smith could shock us once again & take another small school talent with big time playmaking ability to develop like he did last year with Jacoby. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie of Tennessee State fills that mold but will take some time, his upside may be worth it, given the youth already on this team especially the defense the Texans could be really, really good in a couple more years.

with that thought in mind it could be a DE or a LB too but with an eye for the diamond in the rough :fortune:
My 2 cents: We can buy a CB in free agency this off season. Some one like Asante Samuel who will probably be named a franchise player again. We can afford him and have spending $ left. The problem is giving up the picks to get him. I think it would be two firsts. Can anyone give me info on other CBs we could go after? We worked a pretty good trade for Schaub it seems. As Patriots draft so low they might be interested in something less than two firsts. If we can pick a CB in FA, we could use the 1st & 3rd picks to get a FS and LT or RB. I just don't see any of these available in FAgency.

Texans Horror
10-10-2007, 10:41 AM
You can see them taking a DE but not a LB ?

LOL...I guess...

TH,

No, I don't think they will draft a defensive end. I am adamant that OLB will be the pick of choice, as I have already berated everybody else on the board who has tried to think differently.

-Real

Look, you can LOL all you want, but you also said:

Was DT a more pressing need that FS or CB last year? Was DT a more pressing need than reciever ?

I'd rather not pass on a potential all-pro type player at OLB to reach for a DB in a class that is DB thin...

If DB is such a big weakness then we need to spend big bucks to bring someone in F/agency...We will have the money to do it...

So if DT was the pick last year, why is DE such a stretch of the imagination this year? If DT was not a need (I think it was), but they drafted it anyways, then why is another defensive lineman (not a need, but possibly bpa) so laughable? I'm not claiming DE is a weakness or a pressing need or even needs to be on the radar. I'm just garden-pathing through a trend and some assumptions, which is pretty much everybody's argument right now. At the end of the season we'll have a better idea of what can happen. Maybe the Texans will draft a CB based on need or an OLB based on bpa.

Agree, disagree, whatever. I don't want to get in a shouting match with you. I'm just surprised you didn't call me a Carr-homer....

Texans Horror
10-10-2007, 10:44 AM
My 2 cents: We can buy a CB in free agency this off season. Some one like Asante Samuel who will probably be named a franchise player again. We can afford him and have spending $ left. The problem is giving up the picks to get him. I think it would be two firsts. Can anyone give me info on other CBs we could go after? We worked a pretty good trade for Schaub it seems. As Patriots draft so low they might be interested in something less than two firsts. If we can pick a CB in FA, we could use the 1st & 3rd picks to get a FS and LT or RB. I just don't see any of these available in FAgency.

Great point. The Texans may have the millions to give to a player, but will they have the draft picks? I can't see them giving up a number one pick from the upcoming draft. They still lack too much, and they are already down a second-rounder.

infantrycak
10-10-2007, 11:00 AM
My 2 cents: We can buy a CB in free agency this off season. Some one like Asante Samuel who will probably be named a franchise player again. We can afford him and have spending $ left. The problem is giving up the picks to get him. I think it would be two firsts.

Part of Samuel's returning to the team and signing his franchise deal this year was New England agreeing not to franchise him again next year.

badboy
10-10-2007, 11:33 AM
Part of Samuel's returning to the team and signing his franchise deal this year was New England agreeing not to franchise him again next year.
Hey, thanks. I thought I had read that but could not authenticate. So we could go after him with a straight cash offer, right? We could offer a huge contract for this pretty good CB. 11 tackles and 3 INTs the last I saw. This would allow us to go after another need in first, third and fourth and close major holes. It would give Bennett time to develop as a nickle and a back up. We could still go after pretty significant players with remaining cap $ if any catches our eye.

beerlover
10-10-2007, 02:42 PM
My 2 cents: We can buy a CB in free agency this off season. Some one like Asante Samuel who will probably be named a franchise player again. We can afford him and have spending $ left. The problem is giving up the picks to get him. I think it would be two firsts. Can anyone give me info on other CBs we could go after? We worked a pretty good trade for Schaub it seems. As Patriots draft so low they might be interested in something less than two firsts. If we can pick a CB in FA, we could use the 1st & 3rd picks to get a FS and LT or RB. I just don't see any of these available in FAgency.

I'm not the expert on salary cap issues like infantrycak, but I don't think the Texans become free spenders until after the 08 season thats when the bulk of paid salarys come off the books. If they do have enough cap room we still need to lock up Dunta Robinson first, knowing the Texans thats excatley what I expect them to do.

Sorry but the Texans have to draft the best corner they can find in the 1st rd. who is capable of starting next season, thats all there is to it. Bennett is a nickle or possibly a FS he just doesnt seem to have the cover skills at this time & Faggins & Von Hutchins will have to make due this year.

maybe something like this-

1st rd. cb
3rd rd. Center/LT/RB
4th rd. WR/LB/LT/RB
5th - 6th - 7th rd. bpa of need left

real
10-10-2007, 02:58 PM
TH,

No, I don't think they will draft a defensive end. I am adamant that OLB will be the pick of choice, as I have already berated everybody else on the board who has tried to think differently.

-Real

Look, you can LOL all you want, but you also said:



So if DT was the pick last year, why is DE such a stretch of the imagination this year? If DT was not a need (I think it was), but they drafted it anyways, then why is another defensive lineman (not a need, but possibly bpa) so laughable? I'm not claiming DE is a weakness or a pressing need or even needs to be on the radar. I'm just garden-pathing through a trend and some assumptions, which is pretty much everybody's argument right now. At the end of the season we'll have a better idea of what can happen. Maybe the Texans will draft a CB based on need or an OLB based on bpa.

Agree, disagree, whatever. I don't want to get in a shouting match with you. I'm just surprised you didn't call me a Carr-homer....


My point wasn't that they wouldn't take a DE...

I never said that...



I LOL'd at the fact that you can see them taking a DE before a LB...

THAT was funny....

real
10-10-2007, 03:00 PM
only if the DE is the bpa right? :d:

Never said they wouldn't take a DE...

I think it's likely for the simple fact that I can't think of many top talent DE's that will be available where we should be picking...


But the point was that I think it's pretty backward to rule out LB and then say taking a DE is more of a possibility...Especially considering the circumstances of this team...

badboy
10-10-2007, 04:49 PM
I'm not the expert on salary cap issues like infantrycak, but I don't think the Texans become free spenders until after the 08 season thats when the bulk of paid salarys come off the books. If they do have enough cap room we still need to lock up Dunta Robinson first, knowing the Texans thats excatley what I expect them to do.

Sorry but the Texans have to draft the best corner they can find in the 1st rd. who is capable of starting next season, thats all there is to it. Bennett is a nickle or possibly a FS he just doesnt seem to have the cover skills at this time & Faggins & Von Hutchins will have to make due this year.

maybe something like this-

1st rd. cb
3rd rd. Center/LT/RB
4th rd. WR/LB/LT/RB
5th - 6th - 7th rd. bpa of need left

I would be ok with your draft if a very good CB is available. My understanding is Texans are to be $30 million under cap. Even if we have to resign some, such as Dunte, we should have plenty left over to get one very good player. If Asante is available why not? If you can fit that quality under the cap with a person with a proven record in prime of his career, that would be perfect. You do not know what you will get with any draft pick. See Gallery or many others. Corners like Dunte and Samuel would take a lot of pressure off safeties and LBackers. If you could get a FS in 1st, a LT in 3rd and OLB in 4th(or vice versa), the defense should be set for years. I am adamant about getting another LT to replace Jordan Black. Salaam earns his check but with or with out Spencer in 08, we need another tackle. Some of our fans are putting a bunch of eggs in Spencer's basket based on very little info when he was 100%.

bah007
10-10-2007, 05:20 PM
I would be ok with your draft if a very good CB is available. My understanding is Texans are to be $30 million under cap. Even if we have to resign some, such as Dunte, we should have plenty left over to get one very good player. If Asante is available why not? If you can fit that quality under the cap with a person with a proven record in prime of his career, that would be perfect. You do not know what you will get with any draft pick. See Gallery or many others. Corners like Dunte and Samuel would take a lot of pressure off safeties and LBackers. If you could get a FS in 1st, a LT in 3rd and OLB in 4th(or vice versa), the defense should be set for years. I am adamant about getting another LT to replace Jordan Black. Salaam earns his check but with or with out Spencer in 08, we need another tackle. Some of our fans are putting a bunch of eggs in Spencer's basket based on very little info when he was 100%.

There will be more 1st round corners this year than last year.

I think we will be in a good position to grab one of them & I think we should.

Exithios
10-10-2007, 05:25 PM
There will be more 1st round corners this year than last year.

I think we will be in a good position to grab one of them & I think we should.

I wouldn't gripe too much over a corner as it stands today, but lets see how Bennett plays out.

I am now on the left tackle front. Salaam is on the decline and I don't see him improving.

1st LT
3rd RB
4th FS/SS/CB/LB

My $0.02

kiwitexansfan
10-10-2007, 08:04 PM
LT or CB.... whichever of those positions has the BPA at our pick.

Gonna miss that 2nd rounder. Although that 2nd rounder is playing awfully well.

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 03:00 AM
My 2 cents: We can buy a CB in free agency this off season. Some one like Asante Samuel who will probably be named a franchise player again. We can afford him and have spending $ left. The problem is giving up the picks to get him. I think it would be two firsts. Can anyone give me info on other CBs we could go after? We worked a pretty good trade for Schaub it seems. As Patriots draft so low they might be interested in something less than two firsts. If we can pick a CB in FA, we could use the 1st & 3rd picks to get a FS and LT or RB. I just don't see any of these available in FAgency.

It was my understanding that Samuel was tendered and signed a one year deal with the caveat that he would not be tagged in '08 as the frachise player ?

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/07/17/no_new_deal_for_samuel/

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1018832


"Asante Samuel wasn't just being a good company man when he said 'both sides are happy' with the way his contract deal played out. On Sunday, a league source confirmed the terms that got the cornerback to sign his franchise tender: if he plays 60 percent of the defensive snaps or New England wins 12 games, Samuel will not be franchised again next year."
Samuel inclined to stay
August 31
Boston Herald
"The question is, if Samuel should have another banner season, will he automatically put the Pats in his rearview mirror, given his unfettered free agent status at season’s end ? The assumption is that provision has all but delivered him out of town. According to Alonzo Shavers, however, that will hardly be the case. If anything, Samuel will once again attempt to strike a long-term deal with the Pats"

So unless the shaver man wants to pay the guy twice for breech of contract....they shouldn't tag AS again. If of course all of this is true... and if the wheels don't fall off of the Patty's wagon.

So say that he is out there. The big questions are do you go after him for 9-10 million a year , i.e. is he better locked and loaded that anything that will be on the draft boards in '08 in two or three seasons ? The other big question...what will Danta Robinson's reaction to this be ?

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 03:22 AM
Just something that's been rattling around my head:

Assume that the new regime stays par for course. Running backs and offensive linemen no earlier than the third. Then assume Bennett checks out. It's a lot to assume for Week 6, but any draft discussion at this point will have to assume a lot. So while I'm at it, assume that the receiving corps also looks good by year's end. Hell, better than any year before.

That leaves defensive linemen, linebackers, and safeties. (Tight End is locked up.) I can't see the Texans taking a stud linebacker in the first round to play Will or Sam. Top-tier defensive backs fly during free agency. What I'm leading up to is the question - what would you think if the Texans drafted another Defensive End in the first round?

Note: I'm not talking about what I want to see on the roster or what the team needs most (I'm off-topic, I know). I'm just grazing through some of the trends I've seen.

What I'm saying is at linbacker there will be a heck of a lot of them with first round grades floating around. And ditto for OLT IF two or three of the top teired Juniors come out. I do not think with all due respect to YTF, that's true to the DBs in general. I think it's a down class. They may take a DB....from what I'm reading and watching so far there isn't a dimes bit of difference from someone from pick fifteen to pick sixty-four. If they traded back they could get the same prospect at DB in the second as the could in the first. The difference would be negligable.

As far as DE is concerned, if he's an elite guy who can get after the passer why not ? The only thing I can see is they seem prety happy this season with their platoon. We're fixin to see a couple of them the next few weeks that's for sure. I wanted one of the Columbus boys for a while now. The kid in Buffalo turned into a prety good DE.

What I know for a fact is simply this....we send six no one gets there. And that little thing has been going on for two and half seasons now. And one thing Denver's defense always featured over the recent years.....was very big safty's and athletic, read the cream in the league, linebackers.

The only way I can see them taking a WR is if someone they graded out very high tumbles off the top of the boards and falls to them on day two. Couple of those guys just went IR this week. Now whether they tumble or not ? I wouldn't Pay a one for Sweed or the kid for Oregon, but a three might be more than Kubaick can stand.

badboy
10-11-2007, 09:34 AM
It was my understanding that Samuel was tendered and signed a one year deal with the caveat that he would not be tagged in '08 as the frachise player ?

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/07/17/no_new_deal_for_samuel/

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1018832




So unless the shaver man wants to pay the guy twice for breech of contract....they shouldn't tag AS again. If of course all of this is true... and if the wheels don't fall off of the Patty's wagon.

So say that he is out there. The big questions are do you go after him for 9-10 million a year , i.e. is he better locked and loaded that anything that will be on the draft boards in '08 in two or three seasons ? The other big question...what will Danta Robinson's reaction to this be ?

Good info and thanks, Cak pointed me that way to confirm what I thought I had heard. My belief is you should go with what you know. Some college players coming out have more chance of making in the NFL than others. AP would be an example of this. As you state, a draft selection especially at LT or Dline may take more than one year to develop. See Mario, ignore Okoye who is outstanding so far. There are exceptions of course, yet I would rather sign Samuel for CB than to draft one in first. Injuries can happen to either player, but I'd go with the established NFL guy with a track record. You will pay more but Samuel is in his prime. 27 yoa Jan 6, 2008. I agree a team should build with the draft; but if you can plug a hole at starter especially for a position that can win or lose a game, you do it.

Another thing to be concerned about is what will be available in free agency this off season. For 2007, we had about $7million under cap that we did not spend as I understand. Smith has done wonders again buying players on the cheap. For 2008, I see no RBs that are clear "Hey, look at me!" type players. One or two "avg to good" free safeties and no LT. Why not go with a great offer to Samuel and lock up a need player. As for as Bennett, time will tell, but we are talking about what we see on team as for today. It is possible that Dayne will explode and be an 800 yds rusher and Green goes for 1200. We just don't know that today.

Lock up Samuel and then you have 1st, third and 4th to address LT, FS and center or OLB based on your view of need. Our luck in free agency and low draft picks have not been very productive for a center.

real
10-11-2007, 09:40 AM
Don't be surprised if we take a LB in the first....

Ole Miss Texan
10-11-2007, 10:03 AM
Anybody watch the Pitt/Navy game last night?

I remembered half way through that Charles Spencer played for Pitt so I wanted to watch their OL.

Their LT (Otah) is a senior and seemed to do very well. Of course they were playing Navy so its hard to tell...but the announcers said kiper expects him to be a 1st day pick (3rd rd as of now).

Anybody got more insight on him?

Also as far as OL goes, what are good teams to watch for that would be guys we might pick from to fit our system? USC, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Miami come to mind (Spencer, Winston...)

tulexan
10-11-2007, 10:24 AM
Another thing to be concerned about is what will be available in free agency this off season. For 2007, we had about $7million under cap that we did not spend as I understand. Smith has done wonders again buying players on the cheap. For 2008, I see no RBs that are clear "Hey, look at me!" type players. One or two "avg to good" free safeties and no LT. Why not go with a great offer to Samuel and lock up a need player. As for as Bennett, time will tell, but we are talking about what we see on team as for today. It is possible that Dayne will explode and be an 800 yds rusher and Green goes for 1200. We just don't know that today.

What about Michael Turner?

beerlover
10-11-2007, 10:46 AM
don't get too wrapped up into offensive lineman you'll only get dissapointed like I did last year :)

but yeah Otah does remind me of Charles, does'nt have the hand punch but similar massive frame & good footwrok for his size. also Mike McGlynn (RT) is a really interesting prospect because he has the ability to play all line positions. I'm wondering if they (Texans) could take a player like him (4th-5th rd.) & develop him into a NFL Center, his pass blocking is excellent, consistant & intense.

the other thing you hit upon are the schools that constantly produce lineman who compete & do exceptionally well in the NFL. I would take it one step father and say just look @ the coaching. Coaches rarely get their proper due with a few exceptions. Head coach Dave Wannstedt has NFL head coaching experience & Paul Dunn (who worked with Pitts) is the offensive line coach.

Goldensilence
10-11-2007, 12:11 PM
You guys can have Samuel...I'm hoping the Raiders don't resign Namdi Asmuagh(sp). Good cover corner who can tackle and has really come into his own quietly in Oakland. I think he's more physical then Asante andi prefer that in a corner. I also have my reservations about what happens to guys when they leave N.E. i just don't see them perform nearly as well outside of Billichek's staff and guys playing for the big contract make me nervous as well for the next season.

As for 1st rounder at this point I'm very much in agreement with your assesment pete. There is going to be a lot of first round grade LB's, especially if Lauranitis comes out, floating around. If a guy like Dan Conor falls us middle of first round it wouldn't suprise me at all for us to snag him up.

OL... honestly I think a lot of that might be up in the air far as what happens in the offseason. there should bea few HC spots open up and my money is on Coughlin leaving NYC, Gruden is on the hotseat, Del Rio could be too, Norv was a mistake in the first place and should be fired, and Crennels possibly. Sherman might be up for one of those jobs and if he goes i fully expect the OC position has been groomed for lil Shanahan. If that happens I well expect us to use later draft round picks again. If Sherman stays...we might go LT first round if a guy falls that we like.

As for RB the guy in the first round that I really want is Slaton. Perfect fit for what we're trying to do here. Cut and Run guy. Runs draw plays well, screens well, and has speed that kills. I like Dantrell Savage out of OSU late rounder and anyone else here think Mike Hart isn't a 1st rounder? AS for Turner...from what I've seen he does impress in limited touches.

Just my .02 cents anyway.

badboy
10-11-2007, 01:43 PM
What about Michael Turner?http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Chargers-will-not-trade-Michael-Turner;_ylt=A9G_byPuXQ5HsBcBbwH.uLYF?urn=nfl,48439

He will be almost 27 when the 2008 regular season begins and will then have four NFL seasons behind him as a RB. In five games his rushing avg is 7.4 but in 27 rushes he has 201 yds. Maybe he could carry the load for us, but nothing to base it on. He would be a reach because he will want a big contract in FA.

Here is the thing, someone will offer San Diego a trade and I think the team takes it. So do you want to give up a 4th on a maybe starter? I don't think I do for this player.

Texans Horror
10-11-2007, 01:46 PM
What I'm saying is at linbacker there will be a heck of a lot of them with first round grades floating around. And ditto for OLT IF two or three of the top teired Juniors come out. I do not think with all due respect to YTF, that's true to the DBs in general. I think it's a down class. They may take a DB....from what I'm reading and watching so far there isn't a dimes bit of difference from someone from pick fifteen to pick sixty-four. If they traded back they could get the same prospect at DB in the second as the could in the first. The difference would be negligable.

As far as DE is concerned, if he's an elite guy who can get after the passer why not ? The only thing I can see is they seem prety happy this season with their platoon. We're fixin to see a couple of them the next few weeks that's for sure. I wanted one of the Columbus boys for a while now. The kid in Buffalo turned into a prety good DE.

What I know for a fact is simply this....we send six no one gets there. And that little thing has been going on for two and half seasons now. And one thing Denver's defense always featured over the recent years.....was very big safty's and athletic, read the cream in the league, linebackers.

The only way I can see them taking a WR is if someone they graded out very high tumbles off the top of the boards and falls to them on day two. Couple of those guys just went IR this week. Now whether they tumble or not ? I wouldn't Pay a one for Sweed or the kid for Oregon, but a three might be more than Kubaick can stand.

Great post. I didn't know that about Denver's defense. Linebacker then sounds like a good pick. With one clearly dominant linebacker, for the Texans to add a first-rounder would definitely solidiy the linebacking corps.

For me, a 1st-rd linebacker definitely fits into how I think the Texans are developing the team. (Immediate needs met in free agency; then taking the best defensive player in the draft at their position.)

I agree on the WR, only I take it a step further. With AJ, Davis, Walter, and Jacoby, I think the Texans are set in their wide receivers. I would think this is currently at the bottom of their needs and would be surprised if they drafted one next year in any round.

badboy
10-11-2007, 01:47 PM
don't get too wrapped up into offensive lineman you'll only get dissapointed like I did last year :)

but yeah Otah does remind me of Charles, does'nt have the hand punch but similar massive frame & good footwrok for his size. also Mike McGlynn (RT) is a really interesting prospect because he has the ability to play all line positions. I'm wondering if they (Texans) could take a player like him (4th-5th rd.) & develop him into a NFL Center, his pass blocking is excellent, consistant & intense.

the other thing you hit upon are the schools that constantly produce lineman who compete & do exceptionally well in the NFL. I would take it one step father and say just look @ the coaching. Coaches rarely get their proper due with a few exceptions. Head coach Dave Wannstedt has NFL head coaching experience & Paul Dunn (who worked with Pitts) is the offensive line coach.

At 6'6" 340 lbs he is a little big for center imo. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=66893

infantrycak
10-11-2007, 02:01 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Chargers-will-not-trade-Michael-Turner;_ylt=A9G_byPuXQ5HsBcBbwH.uLYF?urn=nfl,48439

He will be almost 27 when the 2008 regular season begins and will then have four NFL seasons behind him as a RB. In five games his rushing avg is 7.4 but in 27 rushes he has 201 yds. Maybe he could carry the load for us, but nothing to base it on. He would be a reach because he will want a big contract in FA.

Yeah, it is funny how signing a 30 year old to a 4 year deal is regarded as silly but signing a 27 year old to a 6-7 year deal is the only smart choice.

Here is the thing, someone will offer San Diego a trade and I think the team takes it. So do you want to give up a 4th on a maybe starter? I don't think I do for this player.

If there is going to be a trade, it will happen within less than a week. The deadline is the 17th. Once that passes, he plays out the season and will be a FA who can sign with anyone. There were reports they were offered a 1st before the season. Would be the height of mismanagement if so and they now accepted a 4th.

badboy
10-11-2007, 02:09 PM
You guys can have Samuel...I'm hoping the Raiders don't resign Namdi Asmuagh(sp). Good cover corner who can tackle and has really come into his own quietly in Oakland. I think he's more physical then Asante andi prefer that in a corner. I also have my reservations about what happens to guys when they leave N.E. i just don't see them perform nearly as well outside of Billichek's staff and guys playing for the big contract make me nervous as well for the next season.

As for 1st rounder at this point I'm very much in agreement with your assesment pete. There is going to be a lot of first round grade LB's, especially if Lauranitis comes out, floating around. If a guy like Dan Conor falls us middle of first round it wouldn't suprise me at all for us to snag him up.

OL... honestly I think a lot of that might be up in the air far as what happens in the offseason. there should bea few HC spots open up and my money is on Coughlin leaving NYC, Gruden is on the hotseat, Del Rio could be too, Norv was a mistake in the first place and should be fired, and Crennels possibly. Sherman might be up for one of those jobs and if he goes i fully expect the OC position has been groomed for lil Shanahan. If that happens I well expect us to use later draft round picks again. If Sherman stays...we might go LT first round if a guy falls that we like.

As for RB the guy in the first round that I really want is Slaton. Perfect fit for what we're trying to do here. Cut and Run guy. Runs draw plays well, screens well, and has speed that kills. I like Dantrell Savage out of OSU late rounder and anyone else here think Mike Hart isn't a 1st rounder? AS for Turner...from what I've seen he does impress in limited touches.

Just my .02 cents anyway.Your CB had a good 2006 thereby voiding contract and allowing him to opt for FA. 14 tackles but no INTs this year. Depends on how he does the remainder, he could be some one to spend millions on. Notice he has big year then zero INTs the next. No big deal unless you think it is a pattern. http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=Nfl&id=779

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 02:14 PM
Anybody watch the Pitt/Navy game last night?

I remembered half way through that Charles Spencer played for Pitt so I wanted to watch their OL.

Their LT (Otah) is a senior and seemed to do very well. Of course they were playing Navy so its hard to tell...but the announcers said kiper expects him to be a 1st day pick (3rd rd as of now).

Anybody got more insight on him?

Also as far as OL goes, what are good teams to watch for that would be guys we might pick from to fit our system? USC, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Miami come to mind (Spencer, Winston...)




SSsssssh. I think he is starkly simular to Spencer. There is also a gaurd, from a small school, (Newberry ) who looks to have all the numbers. Doesn't mean he is quick. Doesn't mean he can play. Means he is, if the 4.99 number is true, a unique athlete. I mean at 326 with a 4.99 forty, I would hope we spend the cash to let the scouts get a sniff at the guy with live bullets flying. I mean that is LB/DE speed . Doens't mean he can block in space. Doen't mean he can block anyone. Just means he is a very unique human being.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=67382

Last time we all said there was no way they'd take a gaurd to play OLT they took Spencer. So the cupboard out of the first round isn't completly bare. However I'm hoping still Micheal Ohr decides to come out. I look at the the forty speed first that is the only barameter we have except game action that we have. A 5.4 forty guy is going to have a prety tough time blocking speed guys on the edge. A guy fast enough, doesn't mean he is neceissaryly quick enough, but fast enough has a shot out there. I mean evryone seems to be raving about the Kid from Wake Forest being a stud at center. However at 282, you got to wonder how his frame will hold up. And at that weight he better be a heck of a tactician. I saw the marshal center the other night. He's a bit ploddy but he can root out the point of attack. Looks to be a very strong guy with some quicks. I think the two centers from the past draft we saw have done prety well so far. Panthers Had Kalil out of position at RT gaurd. And Samson Satele (2 # 60) did a prety fair job on our DTs. He was a beast out in space with Ronnie Brown.


Tony Hills at Texas doesn't exactly thrill me. I See Salaam who needs some work.

Texans draft history.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2120&type=team

real
10-11-2007, 02:20 PM
Tony Hills at Texas doesn't exactly thrill me.

My highschool coach told Tony that he was the worst blocker on the team (though I think he was overexagerating)...

At the time he was playing TE, but still....

I think he has gotten much better though since he's been at UT...He's a good athlete, and he's agressive and he's got good size....

I look for somebody to pick my boy up come draft day...

real
10-11-2007, 02:20 PM
But honestly, I don't think we pick up any tackles next year....

badboy
10-11-2007, 02:31 PM
Yeah, it is funny how signing a 30 year old to a 4 year deal is regarded as silly but signing a 27 year old to a 6-7 year deal is the only smart choice.



If there is going to be a trade, it will happen within less than a week. The deadline is the 17th. Once that passes, he plays out the season and will be a FA who can sign with anyone. There were reports they were offered a 1st before the season. Would be the height of mismanagement if so and they now accepted a 4th.I agree and fans are restless now. However, do you take a 4th over losing him to FA?

real
10-11-2007, 02:44 PM
1st: LB
3rd: RB
4th: C

beerlover
10-11-2007, 02:51 PM
At 6'6" 340 lbs he is a little big for center imo. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=66893

no no no not him I meant his teammate Mike McGlynn 6045 315 (irish make for good linemen) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=9328

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 02:53 PM
You guys can have Samuel...I'm hoping the Raiders don't resign Namdi Asmuagh(sp). Good cover corner who can tackle and has really come into his own quietly in Oakland. I think he's more physical then Asante andi prefer that in a corner. I also have my reservations about what happens to guys when they leave N.E. i just don't see them perform nearly as well outside of Billichek's staff and guys playing for the big contract make me nervous as well for the next season.

As for 1st rounder at this point I'm very much in agreement with your assesment pete. There is going to be a lot of first round grade LB's, especially if Lauranitis comes out, floating around. If a guy like Dan Conor falls us middle of first round it wouldn't suprise me at all for us to snag him up.

OL... honestly I think a lot of that might be up in the air far as what happens in the offseason. there should bea few HC spots open up and my money is on Coughlin leaving NYC, Gruden is on the hotseat, Del Rio could be too, Norv was a mistake in the first place and should be fired, and Crennels possibly. Sherman might be up for one of those jobs and if he goes i fully expect the OC position has been groomed for lil Shanahan. If that happens I well expect us to use later draft round picks again. If Sherman stays...we might go LT first round if a guy falls that we like.

As for RB the guy in the first round that I really want is Slaton. Perfect fit for what we're trying to do here. Cut and Run guy. Runs draw plays well, screens well, and has speed that kills. I like Dantrell Savage out of OSU late rounder and anyone else here think Mike Hart isn't a 1st rounder? AS for Turner...from what I've seen he does impress in limited touches.

Just my .02 cents anyway.

Hey that would work for me. We don't need a true #1 just someone to put Petey back at nickle. I'd just as soon see Danta get his money other than someone we don't know. Kinda peeved at Robinson right now, but he's had a very good season thus far. He gives the #1's fits that's for sure. Bennit might be that guy. But if we go through in the future at CB what we're going through with WR and RB this season, I can see having three guys not being too crazy. I mean if the kid from Oklahoma ( Smith) falls, he's big enough to play safty and he's a prety fair college CB right now. Now I wouldn't give a middle one for the guy....but they do some sort of a move down deal a guy like that might be on the board at the end of day one. William Gay will be a franchise guy...if it's going to cost us a day two pick...do the deal.

Micheal Hart ? I think there are a heck of a lot of small running backs on the board. Ray Rice, Ian Johnson...the kid at LSU is a junior isn't he. I mean that guy isn't that fast, strong or quick, all he does is make plays. Charles spit the bit against Oklahoma, but I've always wanted a change of pace guy to back up the one. Even when we had Dominic Williams/Davis, I wanted the # two or three to have some jets. Untill someone tells me differently, I think Criss Taylor is that guy.

So Keith, the kid that's toting the water for the colts right now...remind me again who's cousin he is and where he came from ? Strange they can pick up a second teired tallent and make him look like an all pro. Well maybe not so strange. Dungy hit ugoh and the back up kid. Amazing. Guess he wasn't so crazy after all Taking Anthony Gonzales with the first pick.

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 02:54 PM
no no no not him I meant his teammate Mike McGlynn 6045 315 (irish make for good linemen) http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=9328

Yep he is on a lot of boards also. Over under ? I don't think a center goes in the first this draft.

SS I thought you were talking about the Irish center.

So beerlover do you know why Will Arnold has fallen so far in their eyes. That is quite a tumble ?

rollinstone18
10-11-2007, 03:04 PM
1st: LB
3rd: RB
4th: C

no faith in Chris White?

real
10-11-2007, 03:06 PM
no faith in Chris White?

I think Chris White is really good, but I think we need another center anyways, because Flannigan and McKinney are not getting any younger...or better....

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 03:07 PM
But honestly, I don't think we pick up any tackles next year....

I think your opinion will change radically befor thanksgiving.

real
10-11-2007, 03:10 PM
I think your opinion will change radically befor thanksgiving.

Ehhh...We'll see....


I think the lack of a good center is hurting us much more than our tackles are...

threetoedpete
10-11-2007, 03:11 PM
no faith in Chris White?

Well just going by what we've seen, they seem prety set with Flannagan. I would of stuck him there at the 5:40 mark at the forth quarter if they were going to have a go at Ketih Traylor with second from the six and goal. Wouldn't you ? Soemone was out of their ever loving minds. There's got to be a reason he's not out there at this point doesn't there ?

No I'm not going to see nothing. I know what is behind door number three.

rollinstone18
10-11-2007, 03:14 PM
People were pretty high on Enoka Lucas before we cut him, so I don't know what to make of Chris White.

real
10-11-2007, 03:16 PM
People were pretty high on Enoka Lucas before we cut him, so I don't know what to make of Chris White.

From the little that I've seen of White, I'd say that at some point he will be a starter for us...

Maybe at some point this season...

Errant Hothy
10-11-2007, 03:18 PM
Unless we tradedown I see it as:

Round 1: BPA, except QB
Round 3: BPA, except QB
Round 4: BPA, except QB
Round 5: BPA, except QB
Round 6: BPA, except QB
Round 7: BPA, except QB

I would think that the last 2 weeks would have shown us that we are not ready to draft for need.

bah007
10-11-2007, 05:04 PM
Yep he is on a lot of boards also. Over under ? I don't think a center goes in the first this draft.

SS I thought you were talking about the Irish center.

So beerlover do you know why Will Arnold has fallen so far in their eyes. That is quite a tumble ?

He has never played a full season.

Knee & lower leg injuries have plagued his career so far.

The LSU faithful are saying that he is not injury-prone & that all his injuries are flukes but its hard to make a case for that.

badboy
10-11-2007, 05:24 PM
How many touchdowns are given up by linebackers? How many by CB or Safeties? Having a super stud LB does little to help DBs. A super stud CB or FS can really help LBs. A super stud Rb can help the LT situation.

real
10-11-2007, 05:32 PM
How many touchdowns are given up by linebackers? How many by CB or Safeties? Having a super stud LB does little to help DBs.

Not real good football logic IMO....

Talent on your defense, is talent on your defense...

Bubbajwp
10-11-2007, 07:38 PM
Unless we tradedown I see it as:

Round 1: BPA, except QB,P
Round 3: BPA, except QB,P
Round 4: BPA, except QB,P
Round 5: BPA, except QB,P
Round 6: BPA, except QB,P
Round 7: BPA, except QB,P

I would think that the last 2 weeks would have shown us that we are not ready to draft for need.

Fixed

Errant Hothy
10-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Fixed

Would Ks and Ps even qualify as BPAs?

bah007
10-11-2007, 07:51 PM
Would Ks and Ps even qualify as BPAs?

Daniel Sepulveda would have at some point last year, but he got drafted in the 4th.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-11-2007, 07:55 PM
Unless we tradedown I see it as:

Round 1: BPA, except QB
Round 3: BPA, except QB
Round 4: BPA, except QB
Round 5: BPA, except QB
Round 6: BPA, except QB
Round 7: BPA, except QB

I would think that the last 2 weeks would have shown us that we are not ready to draft for need.




Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

painekiller
10-12-2007, 01:33 AM
My OT to Watch list is growing. (not in any order)

To keep you guys quite I'll add Baker and Long, but they will be gone before our pick, IMO.

Michael Oher 6-6 322 Ole Miss
Jeff Otah 6-6 340 Pitt
Andrew Gardner 6-6 300 Georgia Tech (Jr)
Chris Williams 6-6 320 Vanderbilt
Phil Loadholt 6-7 350 Oklahoma (Jr, JC Xfer)
Brandon Rodd 6-4 303 Arizona St
Ryan Clady 6-6 319 Boise St.
Kirk Barton 6-6 300 Ohio St.

Looking at all the OT prospects makes me think we can find a good one, and if we need to go for one in the 1st there will be guys available that look to be worth the pick.

The1ApplePie
10-12-2007, 08:19 AM
For the 1st:

Steve Slaton
Johnathan Stewart
Kenny Phillips
Antoine Cason
Justin King

One of these guys will be there when we pick. I'd put Sam Baker, who would be the perfect ZBS LT, but he will be long gone.

The1ApplePie
10-12-2007, 08:41 AM
Oh, and Schmitt from WV at fullback would be nice. The guy is a monster of Alstott proportions

Maddict5
10-12-2007, 09:22 AM
Unless we tradedown I see it as:

Round 1: BPA, except QB
Round 3: BPA, except QB
Round 4: BPA, except QB
Round 5: BPA, except QB
Round 6: BPA, except QB
Round 7: BPA, except QB

I would think that the last 2 weeks would have shown us that we are not ready to draft for need.

i think we're pretty set at wr also

badboy
10-12-2007, 10:03 AM
A talented pick up on either side of the ball is a talent of course. I think we have to look at what makes the team stronger not just one area. For at least three years, fans have moaned about our lack of talent at DB not OLB. Schaub will probably not be a pro bowl QB, but we will not draft a QB in the first five rounds. We have to plug some glaring holes.

We can add a hall of fame type OLB in 2008 and still not have a playoff team. A good not great #2 CB or a very good RB can win games the first year on team.

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 10:04 AM
haha, dude, go for it. try and explain it to him and the others who think that drafting the highest rated player available is the best thing to do. they don't look to fill holes, or balance any part of the team out. if they have a wr graded slightly higher than a fs they'll take the wr even though we are set there and desperately need help in the defensive secondary. silly, isn't it?

here's to drafting another d'lineman in the 1st for 08! :beer:

Whatever. There are plenty of examples in the NFL were a team drafted for need and ignored the BPA, and quess what it usually fails in a manner of epic proportions. Look at the string of CB reaches/busts over the years, same at QB, same at OT, etc.

If you think the Texans are good enough to take that chance and not have it hurt the team in the long run then you need to put the Kool-Aid down and step back from the bar.

FWIW, the draft is not the only way, nor neccesarily the best, to address issues on your roster.

real
10-12-2007, 10:37 AM
I'm thinking we either go RB or LB in the first round next year...

Probably LB....

Ole Miss Texan
10-12-2007, 10:47 AM
RB: Jonathan Stewart
LT: Sam Baker/Barry Richardson
FS: Reggie Smith

not in any particular order.

Those are my top guys starting out...

And BPA is the way to go w/ considering need, IMO. If a WR grades slightly higher than a FS...you take the FS. If a WR grades THAT much more than a FS...you have to take the WR. Of course there are all the other positions to consider. But picking someone b/c the are "BPA" being .01 points higher than a need position is ridiculous and I don't think most GM's would do that...I hope . lol

badboy
10-12-2007, 11:11 AM
Whatever. There are plenty of examples in the NFL were a team drafted for need and ignored the BPA, and quess what it usually fails in a manner of epic proportions. Look at the string of CB reaches/busts over the years, same at QB, same at OT, etc.

If you think the Texans are good enough to take that chance and not have it hurt the team in the long run then you need to put the Kool-Aid down and step back from the bar.

FWIW, the draft is not the only way, nor neccesarily the best, to address issues on your roster.Can you give examples of players busting at every position? I would think so. Not a very valid arguement. The point is not to ignore a very good prospect to draft a much riskier prospect. Our linebacker core is good in my opinion and Diles appears to be a steal for a 7th rounder. We need to evaluate our strength at each position and decide what we need to focus on and what can wait until a later round or another year.

I doubt many experts and I'm definitely not one of those, would say LB is a glaring weakness for Texans. Are there players that stand above all others that Smith will select? Okoye is an example. I would give up a very good OLB for a good CB or FS in 2008. Hopefully, Bennett will be our starter in 2008 and we can use draft and FA to address other needs, not wants.

real
10-12-2007, 11:23 AM
I doubt many experts and I'm definitely not one of those, would say LB is a glaring weakness for Texans.


Many experts said it was the O-line that stagnated our offense while it was Carr who's talents were being hidden by the terrible play up front.


Demeco is the Only LB that we have that really "goes and makes plays"...


Our Outisde LB's are not good blitzers, they aren't special against the run and all of them (including Demeco) have problems against the pass...

A lot of people point to our DB's when a completion is made, but sometimes it seems as if our LB's get a free pass in that department...Look at how the Bears or Steelers LB's are involved in passing plays while our LB's are virtually invisible..

If a dominant defense is what we are trying to achieve, we need better LB play...The best defenses normally have really good LB's...

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 11:24 AM
Can you give examples of players busting at every position? I would think so. Not a very valid arguement. The point is not to ignore a very good prospect to draft a much riskier prospect. Our linebacker core is good in my opinion and Diles appears to be a steal for a 7th rounder. We need to evaluate our strength at each position and decide what we need to focus on and what can wait until a later round or another year.

I doubt many experts and I'm definitely not one of those, would say LB is a glaring weakness for Texans. Are there players that stand above all others that Smith will select? Okoye is an example. I would give up a very good OLB for a good CB or FS in 2008. Hopefully, Bennett will be our starter in 2008 and we can use draft and FA to address other needs, not wants.

There are plenty of draft picks when the second the pick is made yo know the team is addressing s specific need and ignoring better talent on the board. It happens every year, and there have alreeady been examples given earlier in this thread. That is not to say that BPA picks are always perfect. But when your team is still as low as telent as the Texans are I don't think you have the luxury of drafting on need alone.

I would say that OLB is an issue. Neither Clark nor Greenwood could be said to posses good pass rush skills. Clark is a liability in coverage, and Greenwood can be pushed out of the play fairly easily. I think if we added a stud OLB the defense would get even better, more so thenif we added a stud FS. I'm a firm believer that getting to the QB is the primary focus of the defense.

Vinny
10-12-2007, 11:28 AM
I would say that OLB is an issue. Neither Clark nor Greenwood could be said to posses good pass rush skills. Clark is a liability in coverage, and Greenwood can be pushed out of the play fairly easily. I think if we added a stud OLB the defense would get even better, more so thenif we added a stud FS. I'm a firm believer that getting to the QB is the primary focus of the defense.
4-3 OLB's don't tend to be "pass rushers". 3-4 OLB's HAVE to have pass rushing skills. We could use a good "blitzer" at the OLB though. For instance, DeMeco is a good "blitzer" but isn't a good "pass rusher". When DeMeco can come in and use his speed and his body control he is great on the blitz when the Texans overload or when he tries to shoot a gap. When he has to use pass rushing moves or take on a Guard or Tackle in short space he gets covered up and has a hard time getting off the block is not a good pass rusher.

beerlover
10-12-2007, 11:42 AM
I will trust Rick Smith regardless but if you use the bpa theory & there is a consensus (among NFL teams) pick available when the Texans select & Rick is able to parlay that proverbial bpa into extra picks, at least a 2nd rounder (that we don't have right now) would make it palpable to take a prospect who fits need/highest ranked @ his position on the board later in the 1st/early 2nd (watching winning teams pick up exceptional NFL talent with long term results seems more accurate late 1st rd/early 2nd than even top 10 picks) = excellent value & less objectional to those screaming for the bpa :cool:

badboy
10-12-2007, 12:03 PM
4-3 OLB's don't tend to be "pass rushers". 3-4 OLB's HAVE to have pass rushing skills. We could use a good "blitzer" at the OLB though. For instance, DeMeco is a good "blitzer" but isn't a good "pass rusher". When DeMeco can come in and use his speed and his body control he is great on the blitz when the Texans overload or when he tries to shoot a gap. When he has to use pass rushing moves or take on a Guard or Tackle in short space he gets covered up and has a hard time getting off the block is not a good pass rusher.Exactly. How often are our LBs sent on a blitz? My understanding is our Will and Sam LB are to clog up middle focusing on stopping the run and occasionally defending on a short pass. Our Mike is a blitzer. We seem to focus on the run and pray a lot that DB won't give up TD. I am cool with that but want to strengthen the DBs. It would be sweet if that could come from players on team such as Harrison, Bennett, etc. White may develop at center. Brandon Frye might split time with Salaam next year and resolve the LT. Ahmad Green rushes for 1,000 more with no time missed rest of season. Jon Abbate, Chris Taylor and Darius Walker are the new guys in 08 allowing Dayne, Cook and Gado to take their talents elsewhere.

threetoedpete
10-12-2007, 12:05 PM
Q: What is the difference between playing strong-side, vs. weak-side, linebacker?

Buchsbaum: The strong-side linebacker is over the tight end, and in most defensive schemes heís got to control the tight end. The weak-side linebacker in a lot of schemes is free to roam and go to the ball and has more coverage responsibilities on backs.

Q: How do the roles of an outside linebacker differ in a 3-4 vs. a 4-3 defense?

Buchsbaum: It depends how you play it, but in a 3-4 very often one of the players is more like a defensive end, and at times both are more like defensive ends than outside linebackers, and they do a lot more rushing.

Q: What are the differences in general between the 4-3 and the 3-4 defense?

Buchsbaum: The basic thing is how many players you have down (in a three-point stance). A 4-3 is generally considered better for rushing the passer, but you need complete linebackers and four good linemen. Itís easy to find four good linebackers and three linemen, but clubs have had greater success throwing against a 3-4 than the 4-3. The 3-4 became fashionable in the í70s with coaches like Bum Phillips and Chuck Fairbanks bringing it in from the college ranks, because it was a better defense against the run.

From Obi one himself there vinny.

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:09 PM
And BPA is the way to go w/ considering need, IMO. If a WR grades slightly higher than a FS...you take the FS. If a WR grades THAT much more than a FS...you have to take the WR. Of course there are all the other positions to consider. But picking someone b/c the are "BPA" being .01 points higher than a need position is ridiculous and I don't think most GM's would do that...I hope . lol

This is all I've been saying for 9 pages it seems. Real keep trying to argue that the LB class is so deep this year, well that mean the talent floweth over. Have we not learned that the freakish athletes at LB are not always the best route to go? Lest we remember our fortune with Demeco and be reminded of the Greenway incident? I have been arguing that CB is deep as well, but it 10x harder to find a starting calibur CB after the first than it is to find a starting calibur LB after the first. This CB class is deep, and not all will work out obviously, but the talent will be gone by the mid-second round, and as we stand now, we are without a second rounder.

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:12 PM
Oh, and Schmitt from WV at fullback would be nice. The guy is a monster of Alstott proportions

I don't know about Alstott level, but he is a monster. I've watched plenty of WV, and Schmitt is the leader of that offense. He makes Pat White and Slaton, and the backup QB when he plays as well.

real
10-12-2007, 12:17 PM
Real keep trying to argue that the LB class is so deep this year

You are lying.

Please find ONE post where I even REMOTELY suggest that, let alone actually say it.

threetoedpete
10-12-2007, 12:20 PM
My OT to Watch list is growing. (not in any order)

To keep you guys quite I'll add Baker and Long, but they will be gone before our pick, IMO.

Michael Oher 6-6 322 Ole Miss
Jeff Otah 6-6 340 Pitt
Andrew Gardner 6-6 300 Georgia Tech (Jr)
Chris Williams 6-6 320 Vanderbilt
Phil Loadholt 6-7 350 Oklahoma (Jr, JC Xfer)
Brandon Rodd 6-4 303 Arizona St
Ryan Clady 6-6 319 Boise St.
Kirk Barton 6-6 300 Ohio St.

Looking at all the OT prospects makes me think we can find a good one, and if we need to go for one in the 1st there will be guys available that look to be worth the pick.



That's what I'm seeing also. Not saying they will do this, but just like linebacker there are a lot of great looking prospects on the board this year...if a couple of the juniors declare. Loadholdt is a prety amazing kid. We'll see this saturday. Newberry kid needs to be on the list as well.


Well one thing we can say for sure about the Wake Forest Center, going against a very young and Athletic Fla. St. d-line, the kid can pull and block in space.

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:20 PM
You are lying.

Please find ONE post where I even REMOTELY suggest that, let alone actually say it.

You continually argue for a LB because of BPA. The first round will be stacked with LB AND DB. A great LB will be countered by a great DB. When two players grade out closely, you take the one that fills a need on your team.

real
10-12-2007, 12:21 PM
You continually argue for a LB because of BPA. The first round will be stacked with LB AND DB. A great LB will be countered by a great DB.

LOL...

What ?

I'm not sure what that has to do with you lying on me...

1) I never once argued for a LB BECAUSE of BPA
2) You said LB was deep...not me....

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:21 PM
That's what I'm seeing also. Not saying they will do this, but just like linebacker there are a lot of great looking prospects on the board this year...if a couple of the juniors declare. Loadholdt is a prety amazing kid. We'll see this saturday. Newberry kid needs to be on the list as well.


Well one thing we can say for sure about the Wake Forest Center, going against a very young and Athletic Fla. St. d-line, the kid can pull and block in space.

He is the top rated C, and the only one who has a chance to go round 1, though I don't see it happening. I called Kalil last year early, but I don't see it happening this year.

real
10-12-2007, 12:28 PM
so let's say we get the 18th pick:
-your bpa is a wr prospect
-your 2nd highest rated guy is a great corner prospect
-your 3rd highest rated guy is a great lt prospect
-your 4th highest rated guy is a pretty good olb prospect
-your 5th highest rated guy is a good rb prospect


Honestly in that scenario I wouldn't take the OLB...It would be that corner back easily..either that or trade down...

Lets say you have the 18th pick:

-BPA by far is OLB
-2nd RB
-3rd LT
-4th CB

Who do you take ?

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:30 PM
Honestly in that scenario I wouldn't take the OLB...It would be that corner back easily..either that or trade down...

Lets say you have the 18th pick:

-BPA by far is OLB
-2nd RB
-3rd LT
-4th CB

Who do you take ?

nobody has argued for reaching. quit trying to pin it as such.

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:31 PM
Honestly in that scenario I wouldn't take the OLB...It would be that corner back easily..either that or trade down...

Lets say you have the 18th pick:

-BPA by far is OLB
-2nd RB
-3rd LT
-4th CB

Who do you take ?

Also, I've been arguing that LB talent and DB talent are both very good, so there shouldn't be a situation like this.

real
10-12-2007, 12:31 PM
nobody has argued for reaching. quit trying to pin it as such.

What are you talking about?


I seriously have no clue...

real
10-12-2007, 12:32 PM
Also, I've been arguing that LB talent and DB talent are both very good, so there shouldn't be a situation like this.

YTF....

I won't quote you anymore....I won't even respond to what you write....

I think it's pretty safe to say that we disagree in every aspect when it comes to the draft...

No need in going round and round in circles...

threetoedpete
10-12-2007, 12:33 PM
This is all I've been saying for 9 pages it seems. Real keep trying to argue that the LB class is so deep this year, well that mean the talent floweth over. Have we not learned that the freakish athletes at LB are not always the best route to go? Lest we remember our fortune with Demeco and be reminded of the Greenway incident? I have been arguing that CB is deep as well, but it 10x harder to find a starting calibur CB after the first than it is to find a starting calibur LB after the first. This CB class is deep, and not all will work out obviously, but the talent will be gone by the mid-second round, and as we stand now, we are without a second rounder.

Well I've been looking at OLT like that for five years. Welcome to club frustration. Look, Sweed was dinged and you could say Smith hit a luck match up game. Fact of the matter is they gave Colt McCoy fits. So this saturday they got Chase Daniels and his flying cricus coming in...if the kid does ok will you admit there are far more CB prospects this season than you are letting on. And that hitting a #3 CB, assuming the SC kid is going to make it and we didn't blow the four on him, that drafting a guy to groom rather than locked and loaded is the best intrest of the team ? I mean if they can lock down the line and hit a grreat DB prospect, I'd be happy. If they go the other way , Lock down and elite LB and a Db I'd be happy. But assuming there is less risk with a Cason than there is with an Ohr is a misstake.

I won't argue that CB2 is not a festering sore. What I'm saying is my sore has been festering longer . And with the board this year you've got a better chance at making Ron Dayne look like an all pro than you do hitting a premiere CB. I understand your arguement, take the risk out of the equation by drafting the DB early. But our greatest chance to beating manning and the colts isn't defending his quick release. It's keeping him on the pine and sucking the air out of the clock. And the best way to do that is upgrading the tallent of the o-line. Either that or improve the defense. We're six points at home behind the colts...you're telling me that the best way to beat them in the future is with going with two ones at Cb...I stand to humbly disagree.

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 12:41 PM
4-3 OLB's don't tend to be "pass rushers". 3-4 OLB's HAVE to have pass rushing skills. We could use a good "blitzer" at the OLB though. For instance, DeMeco is a good "blitzer" but isn't a good "pass rusher". When DeMeco can come in and use his speed and his body control he is great on the blitz when the Texans overload or when he tries to shoot a gap. When he has to use pass rushing moves or take on a Guard or Tackle in short space he gets covered up and has a hard time getting off the block is not a good pass rusher.

Blitzer...pass rusher...semantics (well not really but I made the mistake so I'm going to cover it up). All I want is an OLB you can get to the Qb when his number is called. DeMeco can do it but a) his number isn't called that often and b) when it is the liabilites in Clark's and Greenwood's games become even more exposed.

As for need versus BPA, drafting for need alone can lead to bad, bad things. I think it was the 2000 draft were the Cowboys went into the draft needing to fix the CB situation; so they drafted 4 corners through the draft's seven rounds. Betcha can't guess how poorly that worked out.

Or look at the 2004 draft. Jacksonville needed a Wr, so they drafted Reggie Williams. Bad choice as Willaims was not the 9th best player in that draft.

And if BPA (espically when it comes to WRs) is so bad I quess Arizona is stupid for drafting both Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald in back to back drafts, right?

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:42 PM
YTF....

I won't quote you anymore....I won't even respond to what you write....

I think it's pretty safe to say that we disagree in every aspect when it comes to the draft...

No need in going round and round in circles...

This will be the last I say to you for a while, because frankly, this is the first I have agreed with you in a while.

What I was saying, is that not a single person here supports taking a a mediocre talent over an amazing LB. What some people are supporting, is taking an equally amazing prospect at a position of greater need than taking the amazing LB. This won't always apply, K's and QB's especially, but for the two positions we have argued it does. I will always support an AJ Hawk over a Leon Hall (yes, different drafts, just go with it), but when the talent at each respective position is equal, you take the position that helps your team win more ballgames. You fill your void. Gonzo, by any board was not the BPA at the Colts pick last year, but the Colts took him. Now he is doing great. Can we attribute that to Peyton or a great scout? Maybe, but they filled a need, and he happens to be working out. In the situation you listed, everyone will go with the LB, no questions asked. All I was saying is that with how the draft class looks, that situation won't arise, and it is a moot point for now.

YoungTexanFan
10-12-2007, 12:45 PM
Blitzer...pass rusher...semantics (well not really but I made the mistake so I'm going to cover it up). All I want is an OLB you can get to the Qb when his number is called. DeMeco can do it but a) his number isn't called that often and b) when it is the liabilites in Clark's and Greenwood's games become even more exposed.

As for need versus BPA, drafting for need alone can lead to bad, bad things. I think it was the 2000 draft were the Cowboys went into the draft needing to fix the CB situation; so they drafted 4 corners through the draft's seven rounds. Betcha can't guess how poorly that worked out.

Or look at the 2004 draft. Jacksonville needed a Wr, so they drafted Reggie Williams. Bad choice as Willaims was not the 9th best player in that draft.

And if BPA (espically when it comes to WRs) is so bad I quess Arizona is stupid for drafting both Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald in back to back drafts, right?

You are assuming everyone is calling for us to reach at our pick. If a player grades out significantly higher than anyone else on the board, except a QB for cap issues, you take them. I am for BPA mostly, but when players grade almost equal to each other, you take the guy at a position of need. The situations you listed are obvious reaches, and they have paid for them. I trust Smith not to reach for a pick just off of a need.

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 12:47 PM
This will be the last I say to you for a while, because frankly, this is the first I have agreed with you in a while.

What I was saying, is that not a single person here supports taking a a mediocre talent over an amazing LB. What some people are supporting, is taking an equally amazing prospect at a position of greater need than taking the amazing LB. This won't always apply, K's and QB's especially, but for the two positions we have argued it does. I will always support an AJ Hawk over a Leon Hall (yes, different drafts, just go with it), but when the talent at each respective position is equal, you take the position that helps your team win more ballgames. You fill your void. Gonzo, by any board was not the BPA at the Colts pick last year, but the Colts took him. Now he is doing great. Can we attribute that to Peyton or a great scout? Maybe, but they filled a need, and he happens to be working out. In the situation you listed, everyone will go with the LB, no questions asked. All I was saying is that with how the draft class looks, that situation won't arise, and it is a moot point for now.

If Gonzo was not a BPA pick are up saying he was a "need" pick for the Colts?

Sorry, I firmly believe the Gonze was a BPA pick for the Colts.

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 12:50 PM
You are assuming everyone is calling for us to reach at our pick. If a player grades out significantly higher than anyone else on the board, except a QB for cap issues, you take them. I am for BPA mostly, but when players grade almost equal to each other, you take the guy at a position of need. The situations you listed are obvious reaches, and they have paid for them. I trust Smith not to reach for a pick just off of a need.

I'm sorry, but drafting for need tends to lead to reaching for a pick.

Now if there is a bunch at the top of your draft board when your pick comes up, you can factor need in ( I wouldn't as I don't think this team is that talented at all positions); but going into the draft with the mindset that you have to fix a position (like FS or CB2 as we have been hearing here) bad things happen.

beerlover
10-12-2007, 12:50 PM
You are assuming everyone is calling for us to reach at our pick. If a player grades out significantly higher than anyone else on the board, except a QB for cap issues, you take them. I am for BPA mostly, but when players grade almost equal to each other, you take the guy at a position of need. The situations you listed are obvious reaches, and they have paid for them. I trust Smith not to reach for a pick just off of a need.

there its been said, remember we have Rick Smith as our GM not Charlie dumb-ass Casserly :pirate:

real
10-12-2007, 12:53 PM
Casserly convinced Kubiak to take O.D....

Casserly/Kubiak produced our best draft to date IMHO...

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 12:56 PM
there its been said, remember we have Rick Smith

Agreed, and I feel the thing that Smith has done the best is to have the "needs" addressed before the draft. Thus keeping us out of the situation where we might reach for a player.

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 12:56 PM
Casserly convinced Kubiak to take O.D....

Shhhhhhhhhh.................

Facts are not welcome here when it comes to Casserley.

threetoedpete
10-12-2007, 01:06 PM
For the 1st:

Steve Slaton
Johnathan Stewart
Kenny Phillips
Antoine Cason
Justin King

One of these guys will be there when we pick. I'd put Sam Baker, who would be the perfect ZBS LT, but he will be long gone.

That's a prety fair list there Apple1.

Only thingy I have against Slaton and I'm not saying he isn't a premere prospect, you always aproch skill guys in the spread with danger Will Robinson written all over them. You don't know if he can block. And you don't know if he can read blocks. And there is no way in hades this coach is going to start a RB who cannot do those things. All you know about him at this point is that he has elite speed and production....out of a spread offense. The scouts get a hold of him they make him jump through those hoops. If he can't do it in the all star games, he'll have a lead ballon tied to his tail. Might be a bit of over annylizing but that is the way it is. Titan's run a spread...might be a perfect fit.

real
10-12-2007, 01:14 PM
I agree peete...

Plus, I think Slaytons vision is suspect...

Seen him running into the backs of his lineman quite a bit.....too much for my taste..

Goldensilence
10-12-2007, 01:32 PM
That's a prety fair list there Apple1.

Only thingy I have against Slaton and I'm not saying he isn't a premere prospect, you always aproch skill guys in the spread with danger Will Robinson written all over them. You don't know if he can block. And you don't know if he can read blocks. And there is no way in hades this coach is going to start a RB who cannot do those things. All you know about him at this point is that he has elite speed and production....out of a spread offense. The scouts get a hold of him they make him jump through those hoops. If he can't do it in the all star games, he'll have a lead ballon tied to his tail. Might be a bit of over annylizing but that is the way it is. Titan's run a spread...might be a perfect fit.


I think that's why i like Slaton though. I've seen WV play a few times and it seems like he's a cut and go guy.which is what this offense and Denver's is about....one cut, daylight and the cutback lane. Great hands out of the back field and unlike some people....he can run inbetween the tackles.

Not sure what we'll do far as RB goes next year. Some people on this board are content to see if Chris Taylor is that guy...i dunno i just never saw enough to put stock in that. Realitically I think Ahman will be here next year and that'll be his last year.

I think the reason it's really crucial at this point to have a blocking back is the fact our C and LT is suspect. In the long run does it help to have a back who can do those thing? Of course! No doubt about that. We've still got the rest of the year to find out about some of these guys though.

Bennett just saw his first playing time. I think we're still shuffling at safeties. I think White will get reps this season. Maybe Frye will work himself into a roster spot.

Errant Hothy
10-12-2007, 01:33 PM
like i said, ignoring things doesn't make them go away. at some point you have to address the glaring weakness of your team.

Agreed, but the point I was making is that if you go into the draft atleast having address your issues you are less likely to be forced into a situation where you focus on a certain position or need.

This is what Rick Smith has been very good at. While there were still areas of concern before last year's draft, Rick Smith had already addressed them through FA, ie Black at T, Clark at Sam, Fletcher at CB, Green at RB, etc. Now I'm not saying that the guys were expected to be the fixes at their positions, but I am saying that since we already had options at the problem areas we were not forced to draft with the mind set of having to "fix" the roster.

threetoedpete
10-12-2007, 01:35 PM
If Gonzo was not a BPA pick are up saying he was a "need" pick for the Colts?

Sorry, I firmly believe the Gonze was a BPA pick for the Colts.

Well, I wasn't in the colts war room. But it seems prety obvious at this point they had a plan and they stuck to it. They had lost the slot via free agency. And inspite of what the phins thought the best reciever prospect on the board from the OSU was Gonzales. Not Ginn Jr. . Blind man could of saw it when he cut the Texas Dds to peices in the early Texas game.... in back to back years. They also had a line on a Rb out of canada that looked like a fair back up. They also liked Ugoh to groom. And Ugoh was falling. So he takes the slot first ....because they know there is no way in hades he is going to fall through the second and Manning has...I posted has, to have that slot guy. Boom, Boom, Boom...Ugoh works out, Gonzo is as advetised..Keith preforms brilantly, the colts are 5-0. And the draft gurus who dissed them owe a few I beg your pardons Mr. Dungy.

Vinny
10-12-2007, 02:14 PM
Boom, Boom, Boom...Ugoh works out, Gonzo is as advetised..Keith preforms brilantly, the colts are 5-0. And the draft gurus who dissed them owe a few I beg your pardons Mr. Dungy.It's Bill Polian really, and he is one of the most astute NFL personnel guys in the league...it's been obvious for years.

badboy
10-12-2007, 02:21 PM
I wished I felt better about there being a good pool to select from in free agency for our needs.

beerlover
10-12-2007, 02:51 PM
Casserly convinced Kubiak to take O.D....

Casserly/Kubiak produced our best draft to date IMHO...

you think :shades:

2006 was the best collection of talent EVER in a draft & yes thanks to Casserly we still had the #1 pick (Mario Williams) the #1 pick of the 2nd rd. (DeMeco Ryans) two #3's (extra pick aquired from NO) Owen Daniels in the 4th (clearly a Kubiak pick) then Wali Lundy in 6th (no longer on the team) & David Anderson barely haning in there. surely with such assortment of high picks the Texans with Rick Smith would have done at least as good if not superior given the talent across the board. I'm not even going into another discussion concerning the top pick, but if you notice there was a pretty good LB still available in the 2nd rd :rofl:

Vinny
10-12-2007, 05:32 PM
Daniels wasn't "clearly a Kubiak pick". It is common knowledge that Casserly was the guy who convinced the team do to take Daniels when they met to discuss the second day draft strategy. If I remember this right, Richard Smith didn't want to draft DeMeco Ryans.

Specnatz
10-12-2007, 05:41 PM
Daniels wasn't "clearly a Kubiak pick". It is common knowledge that Casserly was the guy who convinced the team do to take Daniels when they met to discuss the second day draft strategy. If I remember this right, Richard Smith didn't want to draft DeMeco Ryans.

I know the Daniels pick but never heard of the Ryans pick, not saying wrong or right, but would love to know the whole break down on that draft.

The1ApplePie
10-12-2007, 05:42 PM
Daniels wasn't "clearly a Kubiak pick". It is common knowledge that Casserly was the guy who convinced the team do to take Daniels when they met to discuss the second day draft strategy. If I remember this right, Richard Smith didn't want to draft DeMeco Ryans.

Wasn't it thought in the draft that either Maroney or DeAngelo Williams would fall to the 2nd, but thanks to LandWhatle being a fatass, he fell instead of one of them?

real
10-12-2007, 09:35 PM
Owen Daniels in the 4th (clearly a Kubiak pick) then Wali Lundy in 6th (no longer on the team) & David Anderson barely haning in there.

It's been mentioned, but it is a FACT that Owen wasn't "clearly" a Kubiak pick and Casserly is the one who sold him to the team...

David Anderson isn't "barely" hanging in there either....And just in case you didn't know David Anderson WAS a Kubiak pick...

I think he played ball with his son...

beerlover
10-12-2007, 10:14 PM
It's been mentioned, but it is a FACT that Owen wasn't "clearly" a Kubiak pick and Casserly is the one who sold him to the team...

David Anderson isn't "barely" hanging in there either....And just in case you didn't know David Anderson WAS a Kubiak pick...

I think he played ball with his son...

even if Casserly gets credit for Owen Daniels it hardley supports 06 as the best draft in Texans history under the circumstances. pretty damn sad if you have to nit pick later rd. selections when you have the #1 overall pick not once but twice :gun:

real
10-14-2007, 03:20 AM
even if Casserly gets credit for Owen Daniels it hardley supports 06 as the best draft in Texans history under the circumstances. pretty damn sad if you have to nit pick later rd. selections when you have the #1 overall pick not once but twice :gun:

Huh?

The 1st time we had the first overall was because of the expansion draft...You realize that right ?

And if 06 wasn't our best draft then I don't know which one was...

infantrycak
10-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Huh?

The 1st time we had the first overall was because of the expansion draft...You realize that right ?

And if 06 wasn't our best draft then I don't know which one was...

The expansion draft and regular draft are two totally different issues. But yes 06 was a fantastic draft.

beerlover
10-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Huh?

The 1st time we had the first overall was because of the expansion draft...You realize that right ?

And if 06 wasn't our best draft then I don't know which one was...

its funny (not) how sometimes you find yourself on the other side of the fence defending something your not 100% behind, regardless it was Casserlys best draft & a good draft for the Texans I'll give you that :ok: howEVER I maintain it could have been a whole lot better if Rick Smith had been the GM & don't make me bring out the trump card cause I want to keep this on the level.

but since you don't respect my opinion or seemingly anyone else here who posts in the draft forum, maybe you'll at least take into consideration what draft experts/anaylsts who get paid think, then again maybe not :cool:

I think this report is about as fair as any-

draft stock report- http://www.draftstock.com/site_main/content/view/154/44/

2006 Houston Texans Draft Grade
1(1) Mario Williams DE NC State
2(33) DeMeco Ryans LB Alabama
3(65) Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
3(66) Eric Winston OT Miami ( Fla. )
4(98) Owen Daniels TE Wisconsin
6(170) Wali Lundy RB Virginia
7(251) David Anderson WR Colorado State

Day One Analysis: We all knew on the eve of the draft that Mario Williams was going to be #1. I applaud the Texans for laying off Reggie Bush because Williams fills a bigger need, although he will need time to develop. I still think the best thing to do would have been to trade out of the top pick but with the Texans staying put they made the best selection possible for the future. Ryans is a well-rounded prospect who would fit in almost anywhere. Houston may try him at middle linebacker, if he shows he can tackle consistently it will be a great fit. Iím not as high on Spencer or Winston but the Texans started to address their biggest area of need, the offensive line.

Day Two Analysis: Owen Daniels looks like the new Bennie Joppru without the injuries. Wali Lundy gives the Texans another option catching the football out of the backfield. David Anderson isnít a pick that excited me. I think the Texans could have done a little better on day two but the picks werenít totally bad.
Fantasy Impact: There will be so much pressure on Williams in his first year. To me he was worthy of the top pick but there will be other defenders that have bigger impacts on the game right out of the gate. Williams will need some time at the pro level. DeMeco Ryans would be a wise choice in your IDP draft, he isnít as talented as some of the linebackers taken before him but he is the complete package.

Overall Grade: B

this one from SI is scathing & they give the Texans a D http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/05/02/draft.grades/3.html


TEXANS: I'm not kidding. There are scouts who don't like DE Mario Williams because they say he takes a play off every now and then. The Reggie Bush thing will be a heavy stone they'll drag around from year to year. And the frosting on the cake was owner Bob McNair telling the New York press that it wasn't the fact that they couldn't sign Bush as much as a desire to draft for defense. Respectfully, sir, may I remind you that you were not addressing town folks. This was The Apple. Ah, why go on? He knows, we know, everyone knows, this was a bum deal all around for the folks in Houston.

you also have to take the entire package of picks over at least a three year period to access a fair grade so the jury is still out on the 2006 class, be that as it may I'm strongly of the opinion that the Texans were severly hampered with Casserly at the controls. Just look at how the Texans have done in the draft since 2004: Total picks: 22 2006 Starters: 7 2006 Backups: 7 On Other teams: 2 Out of NFL,: 5

Ole Miss Texan
10-14-2007, 04:21 PM
After todays game against the Jags, my 1st rd pick is going to be a LT. I have given salaam every benefit of the doubt whiles he's played...but i'm not going to do that next season at the expense of Schaub, Green, etc. I think he's done a decent job of coming in and being our LT, even though we all know he's not our long term solution.

I will re-address the other concerns briefly:
RB, FS, CB are the other biggest needs on our team.

I'm excited to watch Bennet develop and he's the only reason I wouldn't spend a 1st rd pick on a CB (faggins is a decent nickle).

RB is a big need for us to. If Taylor comes back 100%, we'll have decent backs in Green & Taylor- however a guy like Jonathan Stewart would be awesome. With the paydays for RB's these days... I don't see us paying out $$ resigning a guy like Alexander or LJ if we had him. AFter his rookie contract give him up...and bring up another RB you've drafted the year before that can come in and run behind your dominant OL.

FS- Hutchins seems to be performing fairly well. I think having a ball hawking FS would do more for this secondary than anything. Dunta has been great, bennet is up and coming...but our safeties are horrible in pass coverage.


So getting a guy like Sam Baker or Barry Richardson is what I'm hoping for right now. I'd love to have a guy lock down that position for 10+ years and continue building through the trenches.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-14-2007, 04:32 PM
I would add a speedy edge rusher to our list of priorities.

Errant Hothy
10-14-2007, 05:03 PM
I would think the fact that we got absolutly murdered by running plays to the outside would have lead some to realilize that OLB is a bigger need then some initally thought.

I'd list the needs as:
1. RB
2. OLB
3. LT
4. DBs

bah007
10-14-2007, 05:07 PM
I would think the fact that we got absolutly murdered by running plays to the outside would have lead some to realilize that OLB is a bigger need then some initally thought.

I'd list the needs as:
1. RB
2. OLB
3. LT
4. DBs

Dan Connor

Ole Miss Texan
10-14-2007, 11:25 PM
I would think the fact that we got absolutly murdered by running plays to the outside would have lead some to realilize that OLB is a bigger need then some initally thought.

I will choose to be blind to this a little longer. If we choose a LB in the 1st next year, I'm going to kill myself for us not taking Willis last year. (I love Okoye)

If OLB is that big of need for us, I really really hope its because our secondary has REALLY stepped it up by the end of the season.

I'd like to see us get a good LT before we get a RB.
I am thinking that OLB is a bigger need than CB right now, but FS is big concern for me. we need COVERAGE.

SteelBlueToro
10-15-2007, 12:27 AM
Kubiak and Smith HAVE to look at Offensive skill positions and OL. Andre Davis proved today why he can't stick with a team. Green and Dayne are washed up. Our OL is CRAP. The DL is overpaid and CRAP.

Draft RB, OL, CB, and WR. They proved with Lundy that they can't wait until the 6th round to take a no name, so they will have to spend an earlier pick on someone who can RUN THE BALL.

real
10-15-2007, 02:30 AM
I am thinking that OLB is a bigger need than CB right now

Really ?

Naaaaaaaawwww...

Get outta here....

real
10-15-2007, 02:33 AM
I think folks are panicking...

Yeah we got blew out today, but it's not the end of the world let a lone the season...

Lets see how they respond next week before we start demanding guys heads....

badboy
10-15-2007, 09:54 AM
After todays game against the Jags, my 1st rd pick is going to be a LT. I have given salaam every benefit of the doubt whiles he's played...but i'm not going to do that next season at the expense of Schaub, Green, etc. I think he's done a decent job of coming in and being our LT, even though we all know he's not our long term solution.

I will re-address the other concerns briefly:
RB, FS, CB are the other biggest needs on our team.

I'm excited to watch Bennet develop and he's the only reason I wouldn't spend a 1st rd pick on a CB (faggins is a decent nickle).

RB is a big need for us to. If Taylor comes back 100%, we'll have decent backs in Green & Taylor- however a guy like Jonathan Stewart would be awesome. With the paydays for RB's these days... I don't see us paying out $$ resigning a guy like Alexander or LJ if we had him. AFter his rookie contract give him up...and bring up another RB you've drafted the year before that can come in and run behind your dominant OL.

FS- Hutchins seems to be performing fairly well. I think having a ball hawking FS would do more for this secondary than anything. Dunta has been great, bennet is up and coming...but our safeties are horrible in pass coverage.


So getting a guy like Sam Baker or Barry Richardson is what I'm hoping for right now. I'd love to have a guy lock down that position for 10+ years and continue building through the trenches.

I was going to post your first two paragraphs today myself. I know it will not happen but I would go LT or RB in first. I do not care what the reason is, our drafting RB in lower rounds is no longer working. Taylor, may work out but based on what? We need a presence in red zone and I thought this game it would be full backs and TEs. Spencer? Right. I want to begin 08 hoping he makes the team then worry about him starting. I am hopeful Bennett will continue to grow and eliminate need to use a pick on CB.

real
10-15-2007, 10:03 AM
OLB is the way to go...

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 10:33 AM
Kubiak and Smith HAVE to look at Offensive skill positions and OL. Andre Davis proved today why he can't stick with a team. Green and Dayne are washed up. Our OL is CRAP. The DL is overpaid and CRAP.

Draft RB, OL, CB, and WR. They proved with Lundy that they can't wait until the 6th round to take a no name, so they will have to spend an earlier pick on someone who can RUN THE BALL.

Yeah, cause our defense has proven to be so effective at stopping the other team. Jones-Drew looked like an All-Pro, Harrington looked like a real NFL QB (which he is not), Peyton and Co. had their usual fun, and lets not forget Steve Smith.

I really think the offense is still closer to being playoff caliber then the D.

beerlover
10-15-2007, 11:08 AM
OLB is the way to go...

did the Texans change defensive schemes to a 3-4 :cool:

has Richard Smith used his weakside (Greenwood) or strongside (Orr) in blitz packages? if so how many times a game? the Texans need to establish fear in oppossing QB's via a legitimate pass rush :bowser:

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 11:10 AM
did the Texans change defensive schemes to a 3-4 :cool:

has Richard Smith used his weakside (Greenwood) or strongside (Orr) in blitz packages? if so how many times a game? the Texans need to establish fear in oppossing QB's via a legitimate pass rush :bowser:

So...another D-lineman? Or maybe an OLB who has good blitz skills.

And FYI, there are 2 OLB's in both the 4-3 and the 3-4.

beerlover
10-15-2007, 11:15 AM
And FYI, there are 2 OLB's in both the 4-3 and the 3-4.

OLB signifies a 3-4 defense, while weakside/mlb/strongside denote a 4-3 :bat:

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 11:19 AM
OLB signifies a 3-4 defense, while weakside/mlb/strongside denote a 4-3 :bat:

Is that something you just came up with?

OLB is OLB. Go look at all the nfl guides/draft guides, the LB are always broken down into inside and outside. Regardless of what scheme they play. But since we all know that we play a 4-3, I thought it was safe to assume that most people woul dunderstand OLB as either weakside or stongside. But I guess not.

But to make you happy we need a new SAM and a new WILL, both of whom need to have good blitzing skills. Blitzes do not work if the guys you are blitzing cannot get to the QB.

real
10-15-2007, 11:38 AM
OLB signifies a 3-4 defense, while weakside/mlb/strongside denote a 4-3 :bat:

LOL...

beerlover
10-15-2007, 11:48 AM
But to make you happy we need a new SAM and a new WILL, both of whom need to have good blitzing skills. Blitzes do not work if the guys you are blitzing cannot get to the QB.

yeah that makes me :)

the Texans spent the first four years running the 3-4 now they use the 4-3. I admit having an issue with terminology & if I have a problem with it I'm betting others are as well. so it really does help to talk the talk in regards to the positions slang, terms like WILL & SAM then what are their roles, expectations & skill sets. so when I hear OLB I automatically think of a converted DE who is a pass rushing specialist :cowboy1:

SteelBlueToro
10-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Yeah, cause our defense has proven to be so effective at stopping the other team. Jones-Drew looked like an All-Pro, Harrington looked like a real NFL QB (which he is not), Peyton and Co. had their usual fun, and lets not forget Steve Smith.

I really think the offense is still closer to being playoff caliber then the D.

You're kidding, right? The offense? :um:

Have you been watching the games? Can't score TDs in the red zone, can't run the ball, don't have solid receiving corps? It's been the same song every year since 2002.

There's no way the offense is anywhere near playoff caliber.

As for the defense, pouring all but 2 of the teams first round picks on defense hasn't helped. Maybe it's their def coordinator...

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 11:53 AM
I'm quessing you missed the word closer didn't you?

I never said either unit was playoff caliber I said that the offense is closer then the defense.

ugh.

And maybe it is Smith, but I also see a lack of talent at several positions.

rollinstone18
10-15-2007, 11:53 AM
If we want a WILL, go with Keith Rivers. If we want a SAM, go with Dan Connors.

I'm hoping Kenny Phillips falls to us though.

real
10-15-2007, 12:12 PM
You're kidding, right? The offense?

I think he's pretty spot on...

You can easily look at what is wrong with the offense...RB,C, LT....simple...We know what we need to address there...



The defense is where things get muddled...Some say it's the D-coordinator, some say it's the safeties...some say it's the corner...

Some say our D-line sucks...and a select few have voiced displeasure with the LB corps...

Personally, I think a better WLB helps us better overall..Both in pass coverage, putting pressure on the quaterback from blitzes, and making plays in the run game...

At least the D-line and DB's have made plays this year...turnovers, sacks, INT's and such...

Our linebackers have yet to make their presence felt in one single game this year....And the thing about it is that the LB's should be making the MOST plays...not the least....They are truly right in the middle of ALL the action...

beerlover
10-15-2007, 12:22 PM
Personally, I think a better WLB helps us better overall..Both in pass coverage, putting pressure on the quaterback from blitzes, and making plays in the run game...

At least the D-line and DB's have made plays this year...turnovers and such...

Our linebackers have yet to make their presence felt in one single game this year....And the thing about it is that the LB's should be making the MOST plays...not the least....

what do you think about moving DeMeco Ryans to WLB & drafting a stud MIKE like Ohio State (JR.) James Laurinaitis (6-3, 250)? if in fact WLB is our biggest need I can't think of a better LB than DeMeco & Laurinaitis excells @ plugging the middle.

real
10-15-2007, 12:28 PM
what do you think about moving DeMeco Ryans to WLB & drafting a stud MLB like Ohio State (JR.) James Laurinaitis (6-3, 250)? if in fact WLB is our biggest need I can't think of a better LB than DeMeco & Laurinaitis excells @ plugging the middle.

I think that sounds good in theory....I personally wouldn't do it just because of the chemistry, and him being the defensive leader...plus the fact that he said he likes playing mike...

But i'm not saying that it wouldn't work....If that's something they wanted to try, I could definitely understand that at this point...He'd make more plays and be more active than Morlon is...that's for sure...

But that's the great thing about football...There is more than one way to skin a cat....

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 12:30 PM
what do you think about moving DeMeco Ryans to WLB & drafting a stud MLB like Ohio State (JR.) James Laurinaitis (6-3, 250)? if in fact WLB is our biggest need I can't think of a better LB than DeMeco & Laurinaitis excells @ plugging the middle.

I wouldn't be opposed to it, just like I was not opposed to drafting Willis last year and moving Ryans to the weakside. Then again I'd be pretty happy with Rivers playing weakside and Ryans staying in the middle.

I still think that Ryan's greatest talent is his ability to get to the QB on a blitz, and the best place to use that ability is at Will. Add to that is ability to get through traffic to make a play and you have the makings of a really good weakside linebacker. My concern with moving DeMeco to the weakside is that he will be asked to cover more often, and I'm not sold on his coverage abilities. And as real pointed out, he is he defensive leader and there is already a good chemistry there.

I also wouldn't mind seeing what Diles could do at some point this season, just to know what we may or may not have.

beerlover
10-15-2007, 01:02 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to it, just like I was not opposed to drafting Willis last year and moving Ryans to the weakside. Then again I'd be pretty happy with Rivers playing weakside and Ryans staying in the middle.

I still think that Ryan's greatest talent is his ability to get to the QB on a blitz, and the best place to use that ability is at Will. Add to that is ability to get through traffic to make a play and you have the makings of a really good weakside linebacker. My concern with moving DeMeco to the weakside is that he will be asked to cover more often, and I'm not sold on his coverage abilities. And as real pointed out, he is he defensive leader and there is already a good chemistry there.

I also wouldn't mind seeing what Diles could do at some point this season, just to know what we may or may not have.

I suppose if they did'nt want to move DeMeco & draft Willis they probably won't move Ryans period. However because he has proven the ability to read the play, which leads to early recognition & quick reaction skills DeMeco could become a more viable component of a pass rush @ the WILL.

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 01:04 PM
I suppose if they did'nt want to move DeMeco & draft Willis they probably won't move Ryans period. However because he has proven the ability to read the play, which leads to early recognition & quick reaction skills DeMeco could become a more viable component of a pass rush @ the WILL.

DeMeco was a great blitzer at Alabama, I'm fairly confident he could do it well in the NFL.

beerlover
10-15-2007, 01:33 PM
DeMeco was a great blitzer at Alabama, I'm fairly confident he could do it well in the NFL.

this could be real effective (DeMeco-WILL behind Mario Williams-RDE) until teams game plan a TE next to the Tackle & funnel plays to the strong side. The Texans could also disguise this @ MIKE by giving DeMeco the green light, read & react when the Tackle is uncover'ed attacking the edge?

The1ApplePie
10-15-2007, 01:37 PM
Maybe McFadden will steal a car or something and fall like 15 spots.

If not, trade down and grab Slaton (before Denver does)

The1ApplePie
10-15-2007, 01:38 PM
The strange thing about switching from the 3-4 is that both Mario and Amobi would probably be better 3-4 DEs than the positions they are at now.

real
10-15-2007, 01:41 PM
I think Mario would be better as a 3-4 DE, but I think Amobi is best in the 4-3...His skill set isn't that of a 3-4 DE....

I still think we effed up signing Weaver...

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 01:49 PM
I still think we effed up signing Weaver...

Quoted for TRUTH!!

bah007
10-15-2007, 02:06 PM
Maybe McFadden will steal a car or something and fall like 15 spots.

If not, trade down and grab Slaton (before Denver does)

I dont want any part of Slaton. He looks to close to a Reggie Bush clone. There are good things & bad things about that, but if we are destined to take a running back in the 1st, I'm looking for Jonathan Stewart.

rmartin65
10-15-2007, 02:29 PM
I dont want any part of Slaton. He looks to close to a Reggie Bush clone. There are good things & bad things about that, but if we are destined to take a running back in the 1st, I'm looking for Jonathan Stewart.

Slaton has his moments. I would still take him though. I want a legit runningback, and I dont know alot about Stewart

beerlover
10-15-2007, 04:04 PM
Slaton has his moments. I would still take him though. I want a legit runningback, and I dont know alot about Stewart

until they (scouts) can find a way to measure a players :heart: RB will remain a very difficult measure to weight, outside the obvious elite talent. I've watched Johnathan Stewart on occassion & he reminds me alot of a bigger version of Maruice Drew (larger bowling ball) the Ducks have transformed their offense this year because of a change in the offensive coordinator Chip Kelly so the offense is spread out & no one player will be accountable (other than the QB Dixon) with gaudy numbers. But comparing Slaton, a slotback with game brreaking speed to a smash mouth between the tackles rb is more about the system they fit into rather than pure talent since they are so different.

tulexan
10-15-2007, 04:36 PM
Slaton has his moments. I would still take him though. I want a legit runningback, and I dont know alot about Stewart

I think I would take Felix Jones over Steve Slaton

real
10-15-2007, 04:38 PM
I'm with you on that Tulexan...


Slaton runs into the backs of his linemen too much for my taste...

Errant Hothy
10-15-2007, 04:41 PM
I think I would take Felix Jones over Steve Slaton

I would do the same, there are several backs I like better then Slaton.

badboy
10-15-2007, 04:59 PM
We seem to be getting to the red zone frequently just not into the end zone. I can't see Slaton punching the rock in from inside the ten. Other teams TEs have been bread and butter scoring. What happened to ours?

rmartin65
10-15-2007, 05:17 PM
until they (scouts) can find a way to measure a players :heart: RB will remain a very difficult measure to weight, outside the obvious elite talent. I've watched Johnathan Stewart on occassion & he reminds me alot of a bigger version of Maruice Drew (larger bowling ball) the Ducks have transformed their offense this year because of a change in the offensive coordinator Chip Kelly so the offense is spread out & no one player will be accountable (other than the QB Dixon) with gaudy numbers. But comparing Slaton, a slotback with game brreaking speed to a smash mouth between the tackles rb is more about the system they fit into rather than pure talent since they are so different.
That would be difficult, comparing the two different systems. But Stewart sounds like a smashmouth guy, instead of a one cut guy like Slaton

I think I would take Felix Jones over Steve Slaton

Yea, but he has to come out. He is definately a better pure back. Slaton seems like Bush. But from the games I have seen he runs inside a bit more, but that may be because the D is spread out because of the spread offense.

bah007
10-15-2007, 05:26 PM
That would be difficult, comparing the two different systems. But Stewart sounds like a smashmouth guy, instead of a one cut guy like Slaton



Yea, but he has to come out. He is definately a better pure back. Slaton seems like Bush. But from the games I have seen he runs inside a bit more, but that may be because the D is spread out because of the spread offense.

Correct.

rollinstone18
10-15-2007, 05:40 PM
I dont want any part of Slaton. He looks to close to a Reggie Bush clone. There are good things & bad things about that, but if we are destined to take a running back in the 1st, I'm looking for Jonathan Stewart.

I'm with you there. Stewart reminds me of Frank Gore.

CoastalTexan
10-15-2007, 06:35 PM
One idea I've been thinking about is to trade or cut(ouch) weaver, and get a DE that can rush the passer from the right side. Move Mario to the left.

Ole Miss Texan
10-15-2007, 07:37 PM
One idea I've been thinking about is to trade or cut(ouch) weaver, and get a DE that can rush the passer from the right side. Move Mario to the left.

That's not a bad idea. The trade deadline is tomorrow? Maybe we could trade Boulware for Babin.

Vinny
10-15-2007, 07:48 PM
until they (scouts) can find a way to measure a players :heart: RB will remain a very difficult measure to weight, outside the obvious elite talent. I've watched Johnathan Stewart on occassion & he reminds me alot of a bigger version of Maruice Drew (larger bowling ball) the Ducks have transformed their offense this year because of a change in the offensive coordinator Chip Kelly so the offense is spread out & no one player will be accountable (other than the QB Dixon) with gaudy numbers. But comparing Slaton, a slotback with game brreaking speed to a smash mouth between the tackles rb is more about the system they fit into rather than pure talent since they are so different.
I've been following Stewart since he was a blue chip HS recruit (I was in a NCAA keeper league)....he has the perfect build for a NFL RB. He's gonna be a good one.

threetoedpete
10-21-2007, 02:44 AM
Whatever. There are plenty of examples in the NFL were a team drafted for need and ignored the BPA, and quess what it usually fails in a manner of epic proportions. Look at the string of CB reaches/busts over the years, same at QB, same at OT, etc.

If you think the Texans are good enough to take that chance and not have it hurt the team in the long run then you need to put the Kool-Aid down and step back from the bar.

FWIW, the draft is not the only way, nor neccesarily the best, to address issues on your roster.



Lets see how many offensive tackles in how many years ? Where's that darn list. After you choked on six of them ...I'm fairly convinced that picking up a OT via free agency isn't just a bad idea, it's a disater. Boselli, Weigert,
Young, ....missing two of them...er ... Todd Wade, Victor Rilley, sorry can't think of # 6.