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Yankee_In_TX
09-27-2007, 07:00 PM
Is day to day?!?!

houstonhurricane
09-27-2007, 07:00 PM
Link?

Yankee_In_TX
09-27-2007, 07:01 PM
610, said a leg problem. (I know, vague)

jaybird
09-27-2007, 07:07 PM
He'll be alright

76Texan
09-27-2007, 07:08 PM
texans injury report

Player Wednesday (9/26) Thursday (9/27)
RB Ahman Green (knee) DNPIP DNPIP
WR Andre Johnson (knee) DNPIP DNPIP
WR Jacoby Jones (shoulder) DNPIP DNPIP
WR Jerome Mathis (leg) Limited Participation DNPIP
DE N.D. Kalu (hand) Full Participation Full Participation

DNPIP = Did Not participate in Practice

TexanExile
09-27-2007, 08:43 PM
Additionally at the Chronicle:

Injury woes continue - Mathis questionable (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/09/injury_woes_continue_mathis_qu.html)

"The Texans just keep taking hits. Wide receiver Jerome Mathis is questionable for Sunday's game in Atlanta because of a sore foot. He started complaining about it Monday afternoon. He tried to practice Wednesday, but had to start icing it midway through. Thursday, Mathis didn't practice at all. Now, coach Gary Kubiak is trying to decide what to do. Mathis isn't a guy who has played through injuries in the past. The team could wait until as late as Saturday to make a decision, but it's tough when his absence would leave the team with only three wide receivers. Their options are clearly limited at this point. With only Andre' Davis, Kevin Walter and David Anderson healthy, the Texans must sign another receiver. The obvious options would be Harry Williams from the practice squad or Bethel Johnson, a free agent. Keenan McCardell is also an option, but would seem less likely since Johnson would at least could help in the kick returns."

houstonhurricane
09-27-2007, 09:03 PM
Wow, we are extremely luck to be facing Atlanta this week. If it were about any other team, I would think this would be major trouble. I hope Andre Davis can have a big game!

Runner
09-27-2007, 09:10 PM
Wow, we are extremely luck to be facing Atlanta this week. If it were about any other team, I would think this would be major trouble. I hope Andre Davis can have a big game!

Maybe it would have been luckier to play a great team next week. If they lose to Atlanta it will hurt - injuries or not.

houstonhurricane
09-27-2007, 09:21 PM
Maybe it would have been luckier to play a great team next week. If they lose to Atlanta it will hurt - injuries or not.

At least it isn't a divisional game. I still think we can beat Atlanta/Miami with this starting lineup - I can't say the same for the Jags or Chargers.

Texans_Chick
09-27-2007, 09:58 PM
Additionally at the Chronicle:

Injury woes continue - Mathis questionable (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/09/injury_woes_continue_mathis_qu.html)

"The Texans just keep taking hits. Wide receiver Jerome Mathis is questionable for Sunday's game in Atlanta because of a sore foot. He started complaining about it Monday afternoon. He tried to practice Wednesday, but had to start icing it midway through. Thursday, Mathis didn't practice at all. Now, coach Gary Kubiak is trying to decide what to do. Mathis isn't a guy who has played through injuries in the past. The team could wait until as late as Saturday to make a decision, but it's tough when his absence would leave the team with only three wide receivers. Their options are clearly limited at this point. With only Andre' Davis, Kevin Walter and David Anderson healthy, the Texans must sign another receiver. The obvious options would be Harry Williams from the practice squad or Bethel Johnson, a free agent. Keenan McCardell is also an option, but would seem less likely since Johnson would at least could help in the kick returns."

A sore foot? FOOT???? Are they right about that? AAARGH.

Of course, someone who depends on speed for what he does generally can't play through those injuries. See e.g. Terence Newman.

The practice quotes say lower leg (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3699):

(on WR Jerome Mathis) “Oh, ok, I did forget one. Well, you know, I really don’t know. He didn’t say anything about his leg after the game. Monday morning was not a problem. He came in Monday after the meeting, said his lower leg was sore. Did a little bit yesterday, continues to say it’s sore today, so (head athletic trainer) Kevin (Bastin) thought we should hold him, so we’ll see. We took the x-rays, MRI, we didn’t see anything, so we’ll just play it day to day.”



As an aside, I have to say, I love that the Texans post their press conferences. I've told various people with the Texans that I hope they continue to do so because it is the #1 reason I visit their webpage.

CloakNNNdagger
09-27-2007, 10:04 PM
Now if they could only force themselves to post truthful injury reports.

Carr Bombed
09-27-2007, 10:05 PM
I heard Kubiak talking about a sore leg.....not a foot, on the evening news.

This entire season is being derailed by injuries......it is becoming really sad. :cry2:

Texans_Chick
09-27-2007, 10:08 PM
Now if they could only force themselves to post truthful injury reports.

I wonder if it is the foot, if it is the foot he had surgery on. None of the reports I've seen say.

AnthonyE
09-27-2007, 10:09 PM
Yup, man.

This is starting to get ridiculous.

IlliniJen
09-27-2007, 10:11 PM
My fantasy football source says Mathis has a sore lower leg, is day-to-day.

Andrew6
09-27-2007, 10:24 PM
ahhh man, now who's going to return kick offs for touch downs. :(

AnthonyE
09-27-2007, 10:44 PM
ahhh man, now who's going to return kick offs for touch downs. :(

Dexter Wynn, if he can get past the 15.

Texans_Chick
09-27-2007, 10:53 PM
Challenge.

That's the word that Kubiak uses instead of "Oh ****."

The legend of Matt Schaub is going to grow if he can win with this particular group. A crap running game and a bunch of receivers that absolutely nobody else wanted.

Big Bad Schaub, indeed.

hradhak
09-27-2007, 11:24 PM
It looks like our TE corps is really going to need to step up. I really hope Mathis can play though, but if he has to be out, I'd rather it be now for 1 game instead of play now and we lose him for more time or against divison play.

CloakNNNdagger
09-28-2007, 12:35 AM
I wonder if it is the foot, if it is the foot he had surgery on. None of the reports I've seen say.

The foot he was previously operated on was his LEFT (navicular bone which lies one the top part of the arch closest to the front crease of the ankle)..........we'll see what the more detailed reports of his injury are to compare it to the aforementioned site (if you can believe the report).

gwallaia
09-28-2007, 09:41 AM
Wow, we are extremely luck to be facing Atlanta this week. If it were about any other team, I would think this would be major trouble. I hope Andre Davis can have a big game!

I think Atlanta is lucky to be facing us this week.

Kaiser Toro
09-28-2007, 09:58 AM
I sincerely hope this is a physical injury rather than a mental one. Reading Kubiak's words, rather than listening to them, makes me believe Kubiak is losing patience with Mathis again.

real
09-28-2007, 10:01 AM
Mathis got the game ball last week.


I think Kubes can stand to have a little more patience.

Marcus
09-28-2007, 10:06 AM
I sincerely hope this is a physical injury rather than a mental one. Reading Kubiak's words, rather than listening to them, makes me believe Kubiak is losing patience with Mathis again.

I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Right when he needs him the most, when he really needs to count on him to step up . . . he pulls this 'my foot hurts' crap.

Texans_Chick
09-28-2007, 10:21 AM
I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Right when he needs him the most, when he really needs to count on him to step up . . . he pulls this 'my foot hurts' crap.


Early last camp, there was ton of criticism of Mathis for jaking it.

Until of course, it turned out he had a stress fracture in the foot that the Texans didn't promptly diagnose. But once it was, they ended up doing surgery on it. His type of fracture wasn't the easiest to diagnose.

Let's all step away from our jump to conclusions mat. I know that once someone has been identified as a jake, it's hard to break away from that.

Kaiser Toro
09-28-2007, 10:26 AM
Early last camp, there was ton of criticism of Mathis for jaking it.

Until of course, it turned out he had a stress fracture in the foot that the Texans didn't promptly diagnose. But once it was, they ended up doing surgery on it. His type of fracture wasn't the easiest to diagnose.

Let's all step away from our jump to conclusions mat. I know that once someone has been identified as a jake, it's hard to break away from that.

This is not just about jaking, but about taking care of business.

(on WR Jerome Mathis) “Oh, ok, I did forget one. Well, you know, I really don’t know. He didn’t say anything about his leg after the game. Monday morning was not a problem. He came in Monday after the meeting, said his lower leg was sore. Did a little bit yesterday, continues to say it’s sore today, so (head athletic trainer) Kevin (Bastin) thought we should hold him, so we’ll see. We took the x-rays, MRI, we didn’t see anything, so we’ll just play it day to day.”

PapaL
09-28-2007, 11:21 AM
KT - Sounds like he was trying to tough it out until it really started bothering him.

Kaiser Toro
09-28-2007, 11:26 AM
KT - Sounds like he was trying to tough it out until it really started bothering him.

I would like to hope for that as I am a leave no behind type of guy. However, one's personal history and fear of accountability and responsibility within an entity that has finite positions available is what I am reading the issue to be. At this point, more than ever, Mathis needs to be on the field. Therefore, phantom and especially non reported injuries need to be left to a minimum.

real
09-28-2007, 11:29 AM
I think it's pretty safe to say Mathis knows that.

I find it hard to believe he is dogging it, given the circumstances. Otherwise he's the most naive person on the planet.

badboy
09-28-2007, 11:54 AM
Kubes will have another quiet talk and Mathis will score 3 TDs.On the last score he will do a flip into end zone breaking a collar bone and miss rest of season. Bethel Johnson will be resigned and become the "next best thing".

disaacks3
09-28-2007, 12:06 PM
Kubes will have another quiet talk and Mathis will score 3 TDs.On the last score he will do a flip into end zone breaking a collar bone and miss rest of season. Bethel Johnson will be resigned and become the "next best thing". As much as I like Bethel, he doesn't have Mathis' speed...not even CLOSE.

I really, REALLY hope it's just his leg and not that foot acting up again.

CloakNNNdagger
09-28-2007, 12:43 PM
I would hate to think that Mathis is actually fearful of failure as a legitimate WR rather than that occasional fill in, now that he would be placed in that position this week if he were healthy...............but, with his history, I can't help but having it cross my mind more than once.

DBCooper
09-28-2007, 12:49 PM
A foot is considered the lower leg, right?

Hardcore Texan
09-28-2007, 02:36 PM
I remember thinking when the schedule came out that I was glad the bye week was later this year, I wanted to get my Houston football fix. Now what I wouldn't give for a week 4 bye week.

It is what it is, we will have to get through it. Davis, Walter, Gado, OD will need to be impressive.

Texans_Chick
09-28-2007, 03:22 PM
I think it's pretty safe to say Mathis knows that.

I find it hard to believe he is dogging it, given the circumstances. Otherwise he's the most naive person on the planet.

Agreed.

Injuries are a weird thing. I was talking to one player about how he feels the day after a game, and he says it is hard to find parts of him that aren't sore. Sometimes what hurts in the morning, goes away.

CloakNNNdagger
09-28-2007, 03:27 PM
A foot is considered the lower leg, right?

technically maybe, but not usually by medical personel.................upper leg, lower leg, and foot.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 03:35 PM
Challenge.

That's the word that Kubiak uses instead of "Oh ****."

The legend of Matt Schaub is going to grow if he can win with this particular group. A crap running game and a bunch of receivers that absolutely nobody else wanted.

Big Bad Schaub, indeed.

The only game I can remember that comes close to this one in terms of the number of skill guys down and going on the road and snatching a victory was when Gifford walked into San Deigo for a wild card game and didn't lose it. If I remeber correctly Morriarity literally threw the crutches away just befor kick off and gave them enough of a ruhing attack to pull it out. And....Vernon Perry had a Career day. Be nice if we saw a safty making one or two big plays come sunday. Can we all agree that MS is prety well hand cuffed on this one ?

If he does pull it out, he's going to earn his check this week.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 03:46 PM
I would hate to think that Mathis is actually fearful of failure as a legitimate WR rather than that occasional fill in, now that he would be placed in that position this week if he were healthy...............but, with his history, I can't help but having it cross my mind more than once.

Hard to not be negitive with him. Here is his chance to show case, put his name in the league, and he gets another injury. The guy is either very unlucky or...

I dunno and I'm not in the room, but it does cast a shadow of doubt about the guy. If he's hurt, he's hurt. But dependable is not Jerome Mathis' middle name.
More like red cross.

infantrycak
09-28-2007, 03:51 PM
Can we all agree that MS is prety well hand cuffed on this one ?

Nope. People around here seem to forget having a WR like AJ is a luxury not what every team has. Matt Schaub works with what he has. Prior to Schaub starting the NE game, Vick had 5 sub 200 yard passing games. Schaub came in and had a 300 yd day. Vick followed that up with 2 sub 150 yd games. Vick had 4 TD's in his 7 games--Schaub had 3 in his one. Those WR's were guys reviled for being too poor to support Vick but Schaub made them work including primary pass catcher of the day undrafted and out of the league Brian Finneran. He can do the same with Daniels and this crew.

If he does pull it out, he's going to earn his check this week.

Agreed--that is what earning your paycheck is not just throwing your hands up in the air or whining about having no chance.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 04:10 PM
Nope. People around here seem to forget having a WR like AJ is a luxury not what every team has. Matt Schaub works with what he has. Prior to Schaub starting the NE game, Vick had 5 sub 200 yard passing games. Schaub came in and had a 300 yd day. Vick followed that up with 2 sub 150 yd games. Vick had 4 TD's in his 7 games--Schaub had 3 in his one. Those WR's were guys reviled for being too poor to support Vick but Schaub made them work including primary pass catcher of the day undrafted and out of the league Brian Finneran. He can do the same with Daniels and this crew.



Agreed--that is what earning your paycheck is not just throwing your hands up in the air or whining about having no chance.

So you are posting that MS will have a 300 yard day with how many targets between the three wide outs ? Hmm interesting. I'll agree that MS...in the pocket, with guys he's worked with befor, given time, is an excellent QB.

But....not whining here, to expect him to go lights out with out a running game, with out familuar targets, is a bit of a reach. What I think is that a lot of folks in here were so happpy that the QB situation changed, that MS got elevated to NFL God like status. And he ain't that. He's a good QB who manages the game well .....If he has all of his parts. And he doesn't have that this game. I'm not banging. There's a NFL reality here. We're on the road. We're coming off an emotional loss. We're favored.

infantrycak
09-28-2007, 04:20 PM
So you are posting that MS will have a 300 yard day

No--just saying he is used to working with "subpar" talent and making it work. He isn't used to having an AJ--that's a luxury not a requirement.

Hmm interesting. I'll agree that MS...in the pocket, with guys he's worked with befor, given time, is an excellent QB.

Worked with before? Sure some, but Vick certainly got most of the 1st team reps. Schaub has been working with Walter and Davis isn't a street pickup to the team.

But....not whining here, to expect him to go lights out with out a running game, with out familuar targets, is a bit of a reach.

Wasn't referring to you whining but the kind of QB that would mail it in on the excuse of not having one of his normal starting WR's. You are assuming we will not have a running game (Atlanta has been giving up 144 per game) and IMO overstating how unfamiliar he is with the WR's (he has had a bunch of voluntary extra practice time with the WR's here). In any event, the point isn't he wouldn't go lights out, but he wouldn't as you asserted be handcuffed.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 04:31 PM
O.K. 250 ? will you post that MS will have a 250 yard game ? With out the threat of a rush Kubiack's offense is a dead duck. They can't run the passing game with out the rush. And now, and I'm guessing here just by this coaches past desicions, we'll have flannery in the heart of the line where he was befor. I don't see him starting White do you ? And I don't see flannery's legs rested or not being any better than they were last year. Got guys running timing routes with limited targets with the live bullets flying, and you're posting that MS will ride his white horse in and save the day ? Is this correct ? the only thing that will save this game for them is if the d-line pummels the falcon's QB's. And if we're lucky, we'll get 'em all to the side lines. That will make the falcons as one demensional as we will be.

infantrycak
09-28-2007, 04:40 PM
O.K. 250 ? will you post that MS will have a 250 yard game ?

I don't give a crud about specific numbers Mr. doom and gloom. I've made my point--Schaub is not dead without AJ or even a running game. Ummm, let me remember when this last happened, God it was so long ago--oh yeah, last week--82%, 236 yds, 40 yds rushing.

With out the threat of a rush Kubiack's offense is a dead duck. They can't run the passing game with out the rush.

Oh, I forgot--the doom and gloom eight ball knows for a certainty they won't be able to rush.

And I don't see flannery's legs rested or not being any better than they were last year.

Yeah lord knows Flanigan's legs can't be fresh since he hasn't been getting beat up the last three weeks.

you're posting that MS will ride his white horse in and save the day ? Is this correct ?

You're the one making extreme predictions about handcuffs. All I am saying is Schaub can still have a good day and play his role.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 04:41 PM
I'm not saying MS is not going to go into Atlanta and not give everything he's got. What I'm saying is he has a large load to tote. If they go on the road and blow the Falcons out, then he is an elite QB. But if he doesn't, doesn't mean I want to throw him out with the saturday's night bath water. Need to keep the expectations low this week. This thingy is not a lock. They gotta figure the WR's out. They gotta figgure whether they are going two TE's and bang them and keep it close. They gotta figure how to bottle up the big WRs and the scat back and the TE....just saying they got a lot on their plates this week to figure out.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2007, 04:45 PM
I'm not saying MS is not going to go into Atlanta and not give everything he's got. What I'm saying is he has a large load to tote. If they go on the road and blow the Falcons out, then he is an elite QB. But if he doesn't, doesn't mean I want to throw him out with the saturday's night bath water. Need to keep the expectations low this week. This thingy is not a lock. They gotta figure the WR's out. They gotta figgure whether they are going two TE's and bang them and keep it close. They gotta figure how to bottle up the big WRs and the scat back and the TE....just saying they got a lot on their plates this week to figure out.

Umm...ok.:um:

Crazy I say, just crazy.

Texan_Bill
09-28-2007, 04:48 PM
Didn't I read in one of the tailgate threads that Haywood Jeffries was hanging out at one of them?? With the way our receivers are going down, it might be time to get someone on board.

disaacks3
09-28-2007, 04:48 PM
O.K. 250 ? will you post that MS will have a 250 yard game ? With out the threat of a rush Kubiack's offense is a dead duck. They can't run the passing game with out the rush. And now, and I'm guessing here just by this coaches past desicions, we'll have flannery in the heart of the line where he was befor. I don't see him starting White do you ? And I don't see flannery's legs rested or not being any better than they were last year. Got guys running timing routes with limited targets with the live bullets flying, and you're posting that MS will ride his white horse in and save the day ? Is this correct ? the only thing that will save this game for them is if the d-line pummels the falcon's QB's. And if we're lucky, we'll get 'em all to the side lines. That will make the falcons as one demensional as we will be. Really, what happened LAST week then? We were far from spectacular, but they weren't as abysmal as you're ofereing. Personally, I'd rather the Falcons come in with a win under their belt (less pressure to get Win #1), but you play 'em as they're dealt.

I'm still more worried about our suspect secondary than our Offensive attack.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 04:48 PM
I don't give a crud about specific numbers Mr. doom and gloom. I've made my point--Schaub is not dead without AJ or even a running game. Ummm, let me remember when this last happened, God it was so long ago--oh yeah, last week--82%, 236 yds, 40 yds rushing.



Oh, I forgot--the doom and gloom eight ball knows for a certainty they won't be able to rush.



Yeah lord knows Flanigan's legs can't be fresh since he hasn't been getting beat up the last three weeks.




You're the one making extreme predictions about handcuffs. All I am saying is Schaub can still have a good day and play his role.

The only thing extreme is your expecttions of how three young WRs will preform under fire with very few targets between them. I stand on Flannery's past production. That my friend is a fact. His '06 production. only thing extreme is your expectations. I'm certainly not extreme
in projecting the rushing attack will not be there if he can't preform. MS has too many peice missing to expect him to throw us to a victory. If that's what the game plan is we're fresh meat for sure.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2007, 04:49 PM
Didn't I read in one of the tailgate threads that Haywood Jeffries was hanging out at one of them?? With the way our receivers are going down, it might be time to get someone on board.

He and Ernest "Electric Slide" Givens will do the trick. :fans:

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 04:53 PM
Umm...ok.:um:

Crazy I say, just crazy.

Well bring a little more than a one line character blast there grass hopper. Put something up and you too can dazzel us ? All you got is BS. I knjow what I know. You ain't got nothing. Go let Collingsworth expailn it to ya short stack.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2007, 05:05 PM
Well bring a little more than a one line character blast there grass hopper. Put something up and you too can dazzel us ? All you got is BS. I knjow what I know. You ain't got nothing. Go let Collingsworth expailn it to ya short stack.

:whistle:

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 05:09 PM
:whistle:

What I figguered there short stack.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2007, 05:15 PM
What I figguered there short stack.

:blowakiss:

Chance_C
09-28-2007, 05:20 PM
With out the threat of a rush Kubiack's offense is a dead duck. They can't run the passing game with out the rush.

Yeah, last weekend against the Colts was proof of that. Although, I do believe if we could have run the ball against the Colts we very well could have won that game.

Oh, and BTW who is Flannery?

The Pencil Neck
09-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Yeah, last weekend against the Colts was proof of that. Although, I do believe if we could have run the ball against the Colts we very well could have won that game.

Oh, and BTW who is Flannery?

Flanagan and Chris White's love child.

:hacker:

HuttoKarl
09-28-2007, 05:25 PM
I'm thinking that we need to hit Davis early, build a lead and run the hell outta the football the rest of the day.

Let Matt pass with some dink and dunk when need be.

76Texan
09-28-2007, 05:45 PM
The only thing extreme is your expecttions of how three young WRs will preform under fire with very few targets between them. I stand on Flannery's past production. That my friend is a fact. His '06 production. only thing extreme is your expectations. I'm certainly not extreme
in projecting the rushing attack will not be there if he can't preform. MS has too many peice missing to expect him to throw us to a victory. If that's what the game plan is we're fresh meat for sure.I agree with certain facts that you brought up. However, IMO, we have enough weapons to beat a Falcon team that lack depth, especially on both lines. I think MS will have enough time on several occasions to deliver the goods. He doesn't have to be great, just to make good decisions, and stay patient, 'cause the Falcons will run out of steam in the second half, as they've been doing so far, due to lack of depth.

We could use Mathis, but if he can't go, I think we will probably bring in another guy (maybe Keenan). Dexter Wynn was solid for us last year in the return game, we should be OK.

We don't have Green (well, we didn't have him last year), but I'm quite confident that we can run at Babineaux and Anderson.
We might not even have to run that much, since we've been utilizing our backs out of the backfield a lot.
And the TEs too. We can compensate for the loss of AJ and Jacoby with these guys more involved. I mentioned in one post that Putzier and Owens line up as outside receivers on certain play, and sometimes Sherman even runs a 3-TE set.

I fully expect us to win this game, with defense if need be.:fans:

The Pencil Neck
09-28-2007, 05:46 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3704

(on the injury report) “The only questions for our team, I would say, are going to be (RB) Ahman (Green) and (WR) Jerome (Mathis). The bottom line is those guys have not practices so it does not look good for either one of them, but they will be game time decisions. I would think that right now, Ahman would have more of a chance of possible playing then Jerome Mathis.”

Expect no Mathis.

Marcus
09-28-2007, 05:54 PM
The only thing extreme is your expecttions of how three young WRs will preform under fire with very few targets between them. I stand on Flannery's past production. That my friend is a fact. His '06 production. only thing extreme is your expectations. I'm certainly not extreme
in projecting the rushing attack will not be there if he can't preform. MS has too many peice missing to expect him to throw us to a victory. If that's what the game plan is we're fresh meat for sure.

Count me in your corner on this one, Pete.

I know what you're really worried about. You're worried that if we do lose to the Falcons, people will mysteriously forget about all the injuries, and the lack of pieces, the suspect secondary, and all that . . .

. . . and instead, they'll just throw all the blame at Schaub, right?

Sad to say this, but I think you have good reason to worry.:(

Hook'er
09-30-2007, 10:28 PM
Man, I hope Mathis is ready to go week 5!:texflag:

Htownsportsfan
09-30-2007, 11:59 PM
What the hell is the deal with Mathis? Watching inside the game on ABC and Tillman made several comments about Mathis hurting the Texans today. Tillman made reference to Andre Davis coming back after the big hit he took and seemed to be taking a shot at Mathis not playing today. Bob Allen followed up by saying the Texans were not happy about Mathis not playing and that his MRI was clean. Anyone know is there a feeling around the Texans that Mathis could be playing but does not want to lay injured?

J-Russ
10-01-2007, 12:02 AM
Kubiak lied, Mathis hasn't changed at all. He's still the same p***y from last year.

real
10-01-2007, 12:07 AM
Is it always the players choice not to play ?

False Start
10-01-2007, 12:23 AM
What the hell is the deal with Mathis? Watching inside the game on ABC and Tillman made several comments about Mathis hurting the Texans today. Tillman made reference to Andre Davis coming back after the big hit he took and seemed to be taking a shot at Mathis not playing today. Bob Allen followed up by saying the Texans were not happy about Mathis not playing and that his MRI was clean. Anyone know is there a feeling around the Texans that Mathis could be playing but does not want to lay injured?

I saw that too . Looks like Mathis is soft . If thats true , it kinda makes me lose a bit of respect for the guy . That shows hes not a team player IMO .

Carr Bombed
10-01-2007, 12:23 AM
Is it always the players choice not to play ?

If a player says he's injured a coach just can't make him go out there.

Having said that, 99% of NFL players will play on one leg, because the 1% who don't, get no respect within the lockeroom or from their coaches.

I think Jerome Mathis is one of those 1%ers

Htownsportsfan
10-01-2007, 12:31 AM
If a player says he's injured a coach just can't make him go out there.

Having said that, 99% of NFL players will play on one leg, because the 1% who don't, get know respect within the lockeroom or from their coaches.

I think Jerome Mathis is one of those 1%ers

I really hope not but I am beginning to wonder. Kubiak had to threatin his career to get him into shape and now rumbling about him being able to play but being soft. Maybe its not true but you gotta figure Tillman/Allen must have heard someone question it or they would not have broadcast it. The worst part is the guys has mad Freakin skills as a return guy!

real
10-01-2007, 12:39 AM
If a player says he's injured a coach just can't make him go out there.

Having said that, 99% of NFL players will play on one leg, because the 1% who don't, get know respect within the lockeroom or from their coaches.

I think Jerome Mathis is one of those 1%ers

I'd just find that hard to believe all things considered...

Have you seen how much better shape Mathis is in ? Heard it from Kubiaks mouth..He worked his tail off this summer...

Why do all that work and then not play when you really could ?

Is Mathis really that unmotivated and naive of a human being?

If indeed he is, I say cut him now and move on.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 12:49 AM
On Ch. 13's Extra Points last night, both Bob Allen and Spencer Tillman went out of their way to voice their displeasure that Jerome Mathis did not play this week.

Spencer Tillman: "I don't know what to say, but Jerome Mathis could take a lesson from Andre Davis' play on Sunday. Physical play is part of the National Football League. You can help this ballclub if you're on the field. You can't help anybody if you're not. D'Angelo Hall was not the only player that by his absence, hurt his ballclub today."

Bob Allen: "I don't think the Texans were real real happy with Jerome Mathis not playing today. I mean, his MRI came back clean." and then threw his hands up in the air in disgust.

Spencer Tillman: "That's what I'm saying. D'Angelo Hall missed a quarter but got back out there, but Jerome Mathis could have really helped this club out there today."

Bob Allen: "He could have!" while knocking on the table.

What I find significant and downright eye-opening, was they never mentioned the other injured players, at all. No one else!

And then later in the program, when discussing this week's injury report, when Bob Allen got to Mathis' name on the list, he remarked, "he has a bad shin" in an obvious sarcastic tone.

I dunno, guys. That show is only 30 minutes long, but it was clear that the station wanted the public to know that they are suspicious, to say the least, about Mathis' injury.

Now, I've had my suspicions when I first heard about this 'leg injury', but I have kept them to myself. I think I still will . . for the time being.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 12:52 AM
My bad. Mods, if you could move this to the Mathis thread. I didn't see it earlier. Sorry in advance.

DiehardChris
10-01-2007, 12:58 AM
Bob Allen knows jack. When your ONLY asset to a team is your speed, you can't really do much when your leg keeps you from being 100%. Having Mathis out there at 80% or whatever he would have been is NOT an upgrade over Wynn at 100%. Heck, Wynn almost broke one today.

Yeah, Mathis is kind of feeble and injury prone. How people make the leap from that to "this guy's faking an injury because ____" is beyond me.

Also, Spencer Tillman, while a seriously nice guy off camera - is about the worst sports analyst I've ever seen. His incompetence as an analyst only compares to his incompetence as a color commentator... which we all learn the hard way every pre-season. In the vast landscape of local media types who do these kinds of shows, these two are clowns on the level of Laurel and Hardy.





Side note - My parents and I went to the Bills/Oilers game... the famous 'Choke' in Buffalo. I sat near Bob Allen on the plane ride home, and believe me - that guy is an emotional reactionary the likes of which I've never seen in local media. He was really nice during the trip, but after the game he was a complete jerk - and we fans were just as invested and just as upset as he was, but we weren't being awful to each other, lol. Sigh. I was 16 at the time, if I remember right.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 01:02 AM
I'm thinking Mathis just wants to return kicks. That's his comfort zone.

He doesn't want to play receiver, where he might be called upon to, God forbid, go over the middle to catch a pass and get the tough hit like AJ or AD. Or go over the middle and block someone on a running play.

I'm thinking the kid doesn't even belong in the NFL.

Hook'er
10-01-2007, 01:15 AM
Trade Bait?

Is there any possible way we could trade him for a RB? What about Julius Jones from the Cowgirls.:texflag:

Marcus
10-01-2007, 01:16 AM
Yeah, but DiehardChris, something must be going on, or someone must have told the station something, or they wouldn't have been allowed the say what they did.

It was practically an editorial. They clearly wanted to get the word out to the public.

Me thinks some reporters should start asking some tough questions, like

"Hey Jerome, there's a rumor going around that you're yellow. Care to comment?"

Pantherstang84
10-01-2007, 07:38 AM
Initially, I thought that the Texans should put him on the IR then release him. However, I've changed my position. They should let him come back when he is ready. Get clearance from his doctors, and agent that he is ready to play...


Then cut his soft #$$!

SheTexan
10-01-2007, 08:14 AM
Yeah, but DiehardChris, something must be going on, or someone must have told the station something, or they wouldn't have been allowed the say what they did.

It was practically an editorial. They clearly wanted to get the word out to the public.

Me thinks some reporters should start asking some tough questions, like

"Hey Jerome, there's a rumor going around that you're yellow. Care to comment?"


AGREE!! Spencer Tillman is one of the most honest and direct commentators out there. He tells it like it is, very little sugar coating. He and Allen had the balls to call Mathis out. I liked that!!

Buffi2
10-01-2007, 09:05 AM
This does appear to be a recurring theme with Mathis. Too bad - he has a lot of talent but that doesn't help if you refuse to play every time the going gets tough.

edo783
10-01-2007, 09:46 AM
He's a track guy and seems to just want to do track like stuff ie. take the kick off and smoke it up the field and beat everyone to the other end. Probably isn't to interested in getting the snott knocked of him fairly regularly as a WR would. Willing to risk it on the KO as he probably believes he will win most of those reaces. In fact, he probably sees it as a race. Also, track guys won't compete if they are knicked, if they can't go max they just don't go.

Htownsportsfan
10-01-2007, 10:12 AM
Something is up for sure. Now Andre Ware on 610 is saying he is fast but ne real field vision and that if someone will take him you should trade him.

Pantherstang84
10-01-2007, 10:18 AM
I think Kubes is done with him. Might as well try to get something for him if they can.

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2007, 10:23 AM
Count me in your corner on this one, Pete.

I know what you're really worried about. You're worried that if we do lose to the Falcons, people will mysteriously forget about all the injuries, and the lack of pieces, the suspect secondary, and all that . . .

. . . and instead, they'll just throw all the blame at Schaub, right?

Sad to say this, but I think you have good reason to worry.:(

Don't be afraid and worried fellas. We are still all here and our issues remain - a secondary, fullbacks that fumble and for the first time that I can recall, awful decisions by Kubiak.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 11:05 AM
He's a track guy and seems to just want to do track like stuff ie. take the kick off and smoke it up the field and beat everyone to the other end. Probably isn't to interested in getting the snott knocked of him fairly regularly as a WR would. Willing to risk it on the KO as he probably believes he will win most of those reaces. In fact, he probably sees it as a race. Also, track guys won't compete if they are knicked, if they can't go max they just don't go.

That's the way I see it, and it's all well and good as long as the other receivers remain healthy. But what if something happens, like the other receivers go down with injuries, and you're needed to come in and perform. A coach has to be able to count on you, and be there when the time comes.

Maybe some around here are happy that runs back the occasional kickoff for a TD, while doing nothing else, but I'm not.

He could have very well made the difference yesterday. That's what pisses me off.

real
10-01-2007, 11:12 AM
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

But at the same time, I do think he is a little soft. I don't think he is as soft as he used to be, but I do think that he doesn't take contact very well.

But as I've said, I don't think he's dogging it.

Pantherstang84
10-01-2007, 11:26 AM
That's the way I see it, and it's all well and good as long as the other receivers remain healthy. But what if something happens, like the other receivers go down with injuries, and you're needed to come in and perform. A coach has to be able to count on you, and be there when the time comes.

Maybe some around here are happy that runs back the occasional kickoff for a TD, while doing nothing else, but I'm not.

He could have very well made the difference yesterday. That's what pisses me off.

At least one other person shares my view.

rollinstone18
10-01-2007, 11:43 AM
I know some people are thinking Mathis is the boy who cried wolf, but I think if Kubiak had any doubt about Mathis' commitment - he'd cut him in a second.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 11:47 AM
I know some people are thinking Mathis is the boy who cried wolf, but I think if Kubiak had any doubt about Mathis' commitment - he'd cut him in a second.

The day ain't over, yet.:)

Cjeremy635
10-01-2007, 11:56 AM
I've never played pro football or even college football, but aren't you supposed to be able to "nut up" and play through the pain? I understand there are certain injuries where a player either can't perform at all, or may risk the chance of permanently injuring that particular body part if they take the field. Having said that, what happened to the days of injections for pain? For instance, Mathis was cleared to play IIRC. The MRI came back fine and the staff said he could play. He chose not to see the field, atleast that's what I got out of the pregame info on 610 AM. We have a lot of injuries and it's only a 16 game season. I'd like to see some of the guys take a shot or 10 and see the field in the next series, versus being out for a few games until "they" think they are 100%. I don't think any player is 100% after the first game, much less 1/2 way through the season or going into the playoffs. I may be way out of line on this one, just a little food for thought though. This is not directed to Johnson, mainly towards Mathis. I didn't put this in the Mathis thread, mainly for the fact that I am directing this as a general observation.

eriadoc
10-01-2007, 12:02 PM
I won't speculate on Mathis' injuries, but I'll say this - these guys live with and play through more pain than most fans can imagine. qand then when they do play through pain, and their performance suffers for it, the fans ***** and moan. I won't call anyone of them out for injury.

real
10-01-2007, 12:08 PM
If the staff said Mathis could play, and he was cleared by the medical staff then we have a problem.

Cjeremy635
10-01-2007, 12:09 PM
What I'm getting at is: Mathis at 80% > Wynn at 100% returning kick offs.

Cjeremy635
10-01-2007, 12:10 PM
If the staff said Mathis could play, and he was cleared by the medical staff then we have a problem.

That's what I heard yesterday on 610. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Cjeremy635
10-01-2007, 12:15 PM
Borrowed this from Htownsportsfan from the Mathis thread:

"What the hell is the deal with Mathis? Watching inside the game on ABC and Tillman made several comments about Mathis hurting the Texans today. Tillman made reference to Andre Davis coming back after the big hit he took and seemed to be taking a shot at Mathis not playing today. Bob Allen followed up by saying the Texans were not happy about Mathis not playing and that his MRI was clean. Anyone know is there a feeling around the Texans that Mathis could be playing but does not want to play injured?"

Malloy
10-01-2007, 12:28 PM
I'm sorry, if the doctors clear Mathis then it's as simple as to TELL him to get out there. If I've got a job, I can't choose to take a day off.

Point is, if the coaches accept him sitting, there's a reason for that. End of speculation.

Porky
10-01-2007, 12:47 PM
No not really the end of speculation. This is the same nonsense that has plagued Mathis throughout his career.

What he needs to realize is that there is a difference between pain and an injury. If he is injured, as is the case with Andre Johnson, don't play. If he is simply in pain, then he needs to get out there. It might be different if he was the only one out, but we desparetely needed him out there given the circumstances, and he goes fetal on us. He's making a heck of a lot more money than most people, and he needs to grow a pair. :texflag:

Vinny
10-01-2007, 12:48 PM
I get the feeling that Mathis won't be a Texan by next year. They didn't like his attitude previously and Kubiak had to read him the riot act in camp this year due to his slacker attitude...now this surfaces....so I bet he isn't here next season.

Texan_Bill
10-01-2007, 12:57 PM
If this were another player, I would be more apt to give them the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, things don't show up on an MRI or an examination, but a player sometimes know that they "aren't right"...

Given Mathis' past act, I say give up on him. I would rather have Wynn back there with a good attitude than someone who can be perceived as a team cancer.

What's Mathis costing us anyway?!?

Vinny
10-01-2007, 12:59 PM
If this were another player, I would be more apt to give them the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, things don't show up on an MRI or an examination, but a player sometimes know that they "aren't right"...

Given Mathis' past act, I say give up on him. I would rather have Wynn back there with a good attitude than someone who can be perceived as a team cancer.

What's Mathis costing us anyway?!?not much...he was a second day pick and he is on his first contract. The other MRI came back and he didn't have a concussion....but the results did confirm the other problem with Mathis.

http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/homers_brain.jpg

Pantherstang84
10-01-2007, 01:54 PM
No not really the end of speculation. This is the same nonsense that has plagued Mathis throughout his career.

What he needs to realize is that there is a difference between pain and an injury. If he is injured, as is the case with Andre Johnson, don't play. If he is simply in pain, then he needs to get out there. It might be different if he was the only one out, but we desparetely needed him out there given the circumstances, and he goes fetal on us. He's making a heck of a lot more money than most people, and he needs to grow a pair. :texflag:

Naw it is past that with Mathis. Let's see how he likes playing in Canada and selling Lady Kenmores next year.

Texan_Bill
10-01-2007, 01:56 PM
not much...he was a second day pick and he is on his first contract. The other MRI came back and he didn't have a concussion....but the results did confirm the other problem with Mathis.

http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/homers_brain.jpg

Funny!!! I like it!!

Ckw
10-01-2007, 02:11 PM
I totally agree with you guys. It's just rough because he is the kind of guy you keep on your team just for his kick returning abilities. But if he is going to continue to do these things (not play because his hammy is sore) then he is a liability to our team. He is somebody we are going to be paying to sit on the bench most of the game except on kick returns, and then sitting out games because something bothers him.

rmartin65
10-01-2007, 02:28 PM
I dont know. But the way I look at it, Mathis is a speed guy. If his leg hurts, and it hampers his speed, there goes his value. Instead of threatening his career by playing through an injury, he sat a week so he is good to go. At least, thats what I hope. If he is just sitting because he is a wuss, thats a problem.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 03:38 PM
not much...he was a second day pick and he is on his first contract. The other MRI came back and he didn't have a concussion....but the results did confirm the other problem with Mathis.

http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/homers_brain.jpg

Considering that this is the final year of a small contract, you'd think he'd be motivated to have a good year, just for his own personal gain, forget about the team.

Guess not.

threetoedpete
10-01-2007, 03:49 PM
I won't speculate on Mathis' injuries, but I'll say this - these guys live with and play through more pain than most fans can imagine. qand then when they do play through pain, and their performance suffers for it, the fans ***** and moan. I won't call anyone of them out for injury.

well you can't speculate on them. We don't know for a fact. And we certtainly don't want another James Rodney Richards situation. But, there is certainly more than a trend here. The guy gets dinged...he's out. His moma needs to give him the news. Davis has emerged, he is no longer a nessecity. His roster spot is a luxuray. After they bounce the TE, he's next on the list. And Spencer's staus should be annouced in a week or two.

Htownsportsfan
10-01-2007, 04:38 PM
All right which of you guys was it that just called the afternoon show on 610 to ask about mathis being injured? They said it again that the team was not happy he took himself out for the week since he was cleared to play.

real
10-01-2007, 04:40 PM
All right which of you guys was it that just called the afternoon show on 610 to ask about mathis being injured? They said it again that the team was not happy he took himself out for the week since he was cleared to play.

Well there it is.

edo783
10-01-2007, 05:12 PM
All right which of you guys was it that just called the afternoon show on 610 to ask about mathis being injured? They said it again that the team was not happy he took himself out for the week since he was cleared to play.

The count down has started. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6....................

Marcus
10-01-2007, 06:20 PM
All right which of you guys was it that just called the afternoon show on 610 to ask about mathis being injured? They said it again that the team was not happy he took himself out for the week since he was cleared to play.

:jumpbanan :thankyou:

Porky
10-01-2007, 06:37 PM
Well there it is.

Totally off subject, but who are you? It says you have thousands of posts but I don't remember seeing your screen name until the past couple of days.

The Pencil Neck
10-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Totally off subject, but who are you? It says you have thousands of posts but I don't remember seeing your screen name until the past couple of days.

It's xtru.

Marcus
10-01-2007, 06:48 PM
It's xtru.

You're kidding.

xtru, if that's you, why the name change?

White Runningback
10-01-2007, 10:52 PM
I'm going out on a limb and saying that Jerome Mathis makes Chris Chandelier look like Brett Favre.

Between the "phantom" and self-inflicted injuries, this dude barely sees the field. Coach has called him out and he's failed to respond. It would be interesting to see what his teammates think of Stay-Puft.

Jerome seems terminally injured and I wouldn't be surprised to see him let go if he can't be available game-in, game-out. Shame too, because he clearly can be a gamebreaker when he's available to do so. Too bad he treats his job like volunteer work.

Marcus
10-04-2007, 09:52 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5186763.html


Wide receivers Jerome Mathis and Jacoby Jones hardly participated. Jones likely will need at least one more week to heal his separated shoulder.
"He's definitely got a heck of a separation there," coach Gary Kubiak said. "There've been guys who come back and play in two weeks; there's guys that take four."

Mathis' lower leg is still bothering him.

"He didn't do much of anything (Wednesday), limping around pretty good," Kubiak said.


I think he is. I really truly do. He showed no signs of being injured at all when he walked off the field in the Indy game. but then the following Monday he showed up limping. First, it was the foot, then it was the shin. Nothing on the MRI. He did this on the very week when the other receivers were injured, when he was needed to come in as a receiver.

Now, this week, again, when both Andre and JJ still need some time to recover, when there's an opportunity for him to play receiver, he's limping, his 'leg is bothering' him.

I'm going to say what I really feel here. I think Jerome Mathis is a coward, with a yellow streak down his back a mile wide. He's deathly afraid of playing wide receiver, because he's afraid of going over the middle and taking the tough hit.

Slam me if you want, but until someone shows me different, I don't think there's anything wrong with his leg at all.:mad:

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2007, 09:58 AM
He's a track star.

PapaL
10-04-2007, 10:00 AM
What's your evidence? Short of gut feeling? Did you see him up close and personal after the Indy game?

I don't see why the guy would fake and injury. Especially when he's on the cusp of being cut/traded/released for being nicked up all the time.

The truth will come to light eventually. I think it's silly to call someone names who you don't know personally, much less someone whom resides in your television set. But to each their own.

(Plus I would have to adopt someone else and change my sig - that's 3 whole minutes of my time)

hobie
10-04-2007, 10:00 AM
I would hope not. This is his time to show if he belongs in the league. And with the top 2 receivers out, what a better way for him to know if he can play WR, and not only that, he is needed on ST returning kicks. So I say if he is faking it, then he best be careful, as there are too many other people in the league that would do anything to get that chance to prove they belong, and it might just be your job they take.

Man, I hate people who lay down and quit when there are 50+ other people expecting you to show up and play.

Jerome, I hope we are wrong ...

dskillz
10-04-2007, 10:16 AM
Bottom line is that in the NFL, if you get too hurt to play they will cut you and not even send you a card to say good bye. So if Mathis is truly hurt or just doesn't feel good enough to play, it is his decision and his body. I have seen too many ex-players who can barely walk anymore to call out any player looking out for his own health.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 10:17 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5186763.html



I think he is. I really truly do. He showed no signs of being injured at all when he walked off the field in the Indy game. but then the following Monday he showed up limping. First, it was the foot, then it was the shin. Nothing on the MRI. He did this on the very week when the other receivers were injured, when he was needed to come in as a receiver.

Now, this week, again, when both Andre and JJ still need some time to recover, when there's an opportunity for him to play receiver, he's limping, his 'leg is bothering' him.

I'm going to say what I really feel here. I think Jerome Mathis is a coward, with a yellow streak down his back a mile wide. He's deathly afraid of playing wide receiver, because he's afraid of going over the middle and taking the tough hit.

Slam me if you want, but until someone shows me different, I don't think there's anything wrong with his leg at all.:mad:

And I think it is terrible to suggest that someone is a jake based on this *evidence.* It is about the worst thing that you can accuse an athlete of being. And if you are going to do it, it is best to do it based on real evidence.

When AJ was hurt in 2005, the Texans said it was a calf injury. They never said exactly what he had, and said it was hard to diagnose. He eventually went to a specialist out of state. Then when I was talking to people, they said well, it really isn't a calf problem, it is where the calf connects into the knee.

Tom Brady has been on the injured list for 50 straight weeks for an injured shoulder. And he has played every week with that shoulder.

There is something fishy going on with the way this injury is being reported. Megan Manfull originally reported it as a foot injury. Then she changed her report in her blog to saying it was a lower leg injury and that his ankle was iced (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/09/injury_woes_continue_mathis_qu_1.html). And then her blog said he had his foot wrapped (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/10/green_practices_but_makes_no_p.html#comments). But the injury report is saying it is a shin.

I am guessing that a player knows what part of him hurts, and that these various reports are misleading.

Last year, Mathis was having problems with his ANKLE from the time of the Pro Bowl. The Texans didn't diagnose squat at that time and kept complaining that he was slacking. Then after a long time, they finally diagnosed him with a tarsal navicular stress fracture in his foot. They did surgery on that and from at least some of the medical literature a little over 80% of those surgeries are successful. But what is successful? Does that mean being able to play professional sports.

I can't tell you even what leg he is having issues with because the Texans haven't reported it and no reporters as far as I know have asked.

So, as long as we are doing wild azz speculation, maybe he is having problems with his surgically repaired foot. The injury he had last time is a difficult injury to diagnose because the pain comes and goes depending on activity, until it gets bad enough that you know there is something wrong. And I'm not sure, but I am guessing that once you have had the surgery, it would be difficult to re-image the area to see if it is okay.

By the way, here's a link to some information about Mathis' injury from last year (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/05/pro_bowler_jerome_mathis_injur.html).

Marcus
10-04-2007, 11:22 AM
There is something fishy going on with the way this injury is being reported. Megan Manfull originally reported it as a foot injury. Then she changed her report in her blog to saying it was a lower leg injury and that his ankle was iced (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/09/injury_woes_continue_mathis_qu_1.html). And then her blog said he had his foot wrapped (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2007/10/green_practices_but_makes_no_p.html#comments). But the injury report is saying it is a shin.

What's really fishy is the timing. These injury issues just happen to occur right when the top two receivers are down, and right when he's needed to come in and step up.

Ain't buying it, TC. No way, no how. Just a little too coincidental for my blood.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 11:35 AM
What's really fishy is the timing. These injury issues just happen to occur right when the top two receivers are down, and right when he's needed to come in and step up.

Ain't buying it, TC. No way, no how. Just a little too coincidental for my blood.

The dude's career has been a bunch of injuries.

I am more surprised when he isn't injured than when he is. That he made it through the camp, preseason and first three games in one piece is the surprise to me. The timing of this particular injury doesn't seem like coincidence, it is just what it is.

Why make something into a manhood test based on very little information to support that?

badboy
10-04-2007, 11:41 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5186763.html



I think he is. I really truly do. He showed no signs of being injured at all when he walked off the field in the Indy game. but then the following Monday he showed up limping. First, it was the foot, then it was the shin. Nothing on the MRI. He did this on the very week when the other receivers were injured, when he was needed to come in as a receiver.

Now, this week, again, when both Andre and JJ still need some time to recover, when there's an opportunity for him to play receiver, he's limping, his 'leg is bothering' him.

I'm going to say what I really feel here. I think Jerome Mathis is a coward, with a yellow streak down his back a mile wide. He's deathly afraid of playing wide receiver, because he's afraid of going over the middle and taking the tough hit.

Slam me if you want, but until someone shows me different, I don't think there's anything wrong with his leg at all.:mad:

Hey, wait a minute. Did you see what happened to Andre Davis when he went across the middle? I don't get paid enough for that! signed, Jerome

badboy
10-04-2007, 11:46 AM
Take it to the knab, Mathis will play against Dolphins and have a very good game. Next game? Who knows?

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 12:03 PM
Take it to the knab, Mathis will play against Dolphins and have a very good game. Next game? Who knows?

Yesterday, he was hobbling around with a wrapped foot.

Kubiak doesn't like to play those who don't practice. Jones tried to practice yesterday and was having issues with his shoulder.

McKinney was a backup for most of last season because he was too dinged to practice.

badboy
10-04-2007, 12:08 PM
Yesterday, he was hobbling around with a wrapped foot.

Kubiak doesn't like to play those who don't practice. Jones tried to practice yesterday and was having issues with his shoulder.

McKinney was a backup for most of last season because he was too dinged to practice.Are you saying he is not day to day? I thought decision on him was to be made at game time?

Pantherstang84
10-04-2007, 01:35 PM
Yesterday, he was hobbling around with a wrapped foot.

Kubiak doesn't like to play those who don't practice. Jones tried to practice yesterday and was having issues with his shoulder.

McKinney was a backup for most of last season because he was too dinged to practice.

Sounds to me like he needs to figure out just what is injured. Is it the foot or shin?

Yankee_In_TX
10-04-2007, 02:45 PM
Someone reported on 790 Mathis went to the hospital, they found something specific and identified in his leg (but not released).

powerfuldragon
10-04-2007, 02:48 PM
i talked to jerome yesterday. he told me his bionics were acting up... as they're wont to do.

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 02:51 PM
i talked to jerome yesterday. he told me his bionics were acting up... as they're wont to do.

Bionics? I think I have the authority, per my Avatar, to speak to Bionics. Mathis may be wired differently than most, but he is more Tin Man than Bionic. :cool:

eriadoc
10-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Someone reported on 790 Mathis went to the hospital, they found something specific and identified in his leg (but not released).

So if there really is a specifically identified injury to Mathis, does that make everyone feel better, or worse?

Yankee_In_TX
10-04-2007, 02:52 PM
So if there really is a specifically identified injury to Mathis, does that make everyone feel better, or worse?

BETTER. Now we'll know, and knowing is half the battle.

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 02:53 PM
So if there really is a specifically identified injury to Mathis, does that make everyone feel better, or worse?

Does not solve the issue of the root cause - a player with no heart, a player who does not report injuries immediately to get proper care or a bunch of quacks on our medical staff.

HOU-TEX
10-04-2007, 03:01 PM
The guy on 790 mentioned it was a possibility there might be a blood clotting/blood flow problem in his leg. Similar to Hakeem's ordeal. He was only speculating, but said there was definetely a problem that does actually exist in his leg.

Hopefully it won't be too serious. We'll soon find out.:wild:

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 03:03 PM
The guy on 790 mentioned it was a possibility there might be a blood clotting/blood flow problem in his leg. Similar to Hakeem's ordeal. He was only speculating, but said there was definetely a problem that does actually exist in his leg.

Hopefully it won't be too serious. We'll soon find out.:wild:

That is serious stuff. One of my direct reports has a blood clot and is going back in for surgery tomorrow. I would even be suspect to think that it may not be what the staff was looking for and would not have come on initial testing (I will definitely defer to our members who are medical professionals).

badboy
10-04-2007, 03:15 PM
The guy on 790 mentioned it was a possibility there might be a blood clotting/blood flow problem in his leg. Similar to Hakeem's ordeal. He was only speculating, but said there was definetely a problem that does actually exist in his leg.

Hopefully it won't be too serious. We'll soon find out.:wild:I hope this does not turn out to be another JR Richards situation as another mentioned. Plenty of people had egg on their face over that former Astro pitcher.

eriadoc
10-04-2007, 03:19 PM
Does not solve the issue of the root cause - a player with no heart, a player who does not report injuries immediately to get proper care or a bunch of quacks on our medical staff.

Well, each time Mathis has reported an injury, he's been called out by the coaching staff. Hamstring injuries are bad news for sprinters. If the team has quacks on the medical staff (or at least doctors who weren't looking for the correct thing, if it's a clot), then he's getting called out for phantom injuries.

If he has no heart, then that will play itself out, but I think he has some real issues that have been ignored ("rub some dirt on it! You can run with no hamstrings!"), or misdiagnosed, if it's a clot that's snuck up on him.

This is all idle speculation, at any rate, but that's what we do on slow days at the office.

rmartin65
10-04-2007, 03:32 PM
That would be weird if he was right. Everyone calls him out, and then he goes to a hospital and something is wrong. Thats 2 the training staff missed on him.

badboy
10-04-2007, 03:47 PM
That would be weird if he was right. Everyone calls him out, and then he goes to a hospital and something is wrong. Thats 2 the training staff missed on him.I would think in a sport of extreme violence, concussions, bruises etc doctors would check for blood clots routinely.

Yankee_In_TX
10-04-2007, 03:52 PM
Realize, "blod clot" is coming from the mouths of radio DJ's, not Texans coaches or medical staff.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 03:52 PM
Well, each time Mathis has reported an injury, he's been called out by the coaching staff. Hamstring injuries are bad news for sprinters. If the team has quacks on the medical staff (or at least doctors who weren't looking for the correct thing, if it's a clot), then he's getting called out for phantom injuries.

If he has no heart, then that will play itself out, but I think he has some real issues that have been ignored ("rub some dirt on it! You can run with no hamstrings!"), or misdiagnosed, if it's a clot that's snuck up on him.

This is all idle speculation, at any rate, but that's what we do on slow days at the office.


I am guessing there is a lack of trust some between Mathis and the Texans staff.

One of the questions I like to ask football players is how they feel on Mondays. Because it is easy for us fans to talk about gutting it out blah blah blah, but it is obviously a very violent sport. I used to play flag football every Sunday morning for four hours, and I could barely function until Wednesdays, and I can't imagine what it must be like to play tackle at the professional level.

In any event, when they talk about Mondays, they often talk about how difficult it is to tell the difference between soreness and injury. Because you feel so awful. Just as the whole Vioxx stuff hit the fan, I was talking to one player who said he liked to chew those down like skittles. Just to function.

Basically, for me, I don't pull the no heart, no guts card out unless I have some pretty specific facts about a situation that dictate that. Teams miss injuries all the time. And when players get injured, they want them on the field as fast as possible and sometimes that doesn't work out so well. It is a ugly business.

PapaL
10-04-2007, 03:54 PM
If this story is true it's another prime example of why people should just shut their traps until the WHOLE story comes out.

Tin Man, Phantom Injuries, no heart, suck up, cut him now he's a cry baby, the MRI came back clean he's dogging it. You should all be ashamed, you know who you are.

PapaL
10-04-2007, 03:59 PM
I am guessing there is a lack of trust some between Mathis and the Texans staff.


At the rate the medical staff is going I don't trust them. How many times have they dropped the ball on our guys? Should we start naming the players?

At the end of the day, this is just a game and not real world for us. These guys put their health on the line for our entertainment every weekend. Are they paid well? Sure. But they're the ones who end up back and knee injuries for the rest of their lives while we ho-hum along and complain about the next "softie" that lands on our team. Some of these old guys, not that 35 is old, will have to deal with these things the forever.

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 04:00 PM
If this story is true it's another prime example of why people should just shut their traps until the WHOLE story comes out.

Tin Man, Phantom Injuries, no heart, suck up, cut him now he's a cry baby, the MRI came back clean he's dogging it. You should all be ashamed, you know who you are.

That would be me. Since Mathis, our coach and our medical staff all have a history when it comes to injuries, that cannot be ignored. Therefore, there is no shame. Just a matter of discussion on what our root cause is in this situation.

There is no higher moral ground in this medium, your bark has no bite on this one.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 04:01 PM
Kubiak on Mathis and other injuries (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3726):

Head Coach Gary Kubiak

(on if there is anything new with the team today) “No, (RB) Ahman (Green) practiced some, so that’s encouraging as we move forward. Not much has changed in anything. The one thing, I’ll mention this to you all, is with (WR) Jerome (Mathis). Jerome does have a problem with his lower leg. He is at the hospital right now. We are, basically, in the process of diagnosing how severe it is and how long it’s going to take. I don’t know enough to sit here and tell you all exactly what the problem is. I’ll let (head athletic trainer) Kevin (Bastin) do that. We definitely figured out what’s bothering him; now we have to figure out how long the kid’s going to be out or how severe this injury is. That’s all I can tell you.”

(on what’s bothering WR Jerome Mathis) “He’s got a problem in his lower leg. They found the spot. I hate to be so vague; I’ll let Kevin (Bastin) talk to you. He definitely has a problem. Hell, the kid could barely walk, run. We were looking and looking and last night they asked him to go back and do some more and they did, and we know we have a problem right now that we’re dealing with. We’ll let you know how severe the problem is here as quick as we can.”

(on his expectations for how long WR Jerome Mathis will be out) “I couldn’t even tell you. I have no idea. I know he’s going to miss some time. I know that.”

(on how disappointing this is) “It’s very disappointing because for the kid. He did everything we asked him to do. He worked extremely hard. He had a good camp. He was helping this team and then this starts again. We went through this last year and, basically, the kid missed the entire season last year. I don’t know how many times he was active, maybe three or four, I could be wrong, but to have this happen again to the kid, it’s unfortunate for him. But I will say this, there had to be something wrong because it was bothering him too much and we were doing everything we could to find out and now we think we know what the problem is.”

(on what will be done as far as WR Jerome Mathis’ spot on the roster) “It really doesn’t change anything. It’s just obvious that we have an issue at wide receiver. We have three healthy wide receivers. If we’re going to get a fourth one, we’re going to have to pull somebody up or sign somebody. It’s as simple as that. We have to make that decision how we go play this game, just like I told you last week. Do we go play it with four tight (ends) and three wide (receivers) or do we sign a receiver? That’s a decision we have to make. We have to keep going forward.”

(on the status of WR Jacoby Jones) “He’s about the same as he was yesterday. He did a little bit, caught punts, put the pads on, took them off, but very limited in practice.”

(on if he expects WR Jacoby Jones to play on Sunday) “I don’t want to go that far yet, but it’s about the same as it was yesterday.”

(on WR Andre Johnson’s results from the doctor yesterday) “Nothing new, just the fact that everything’s positive and he can start to speed up his work to get back on the field. That’s where he’s at. But that’s it. Like I said with (WR) Jerome (Mathis) you guys, we’ll let you know. I don’t know what else to tell you.”

(on having a player battling injuries) “It’s hard. I’ve seen players that their first two or three years in their career battle injury, injury, injury, and you’re like, ‘will they ever stay one the field for the full amount of time?’ Then all of a sudden, they get healthy and play 10 years. You don’t know. This kid’s had an issue with his leg. Is this the exact same issue he had last year? No, it’s my understanding it’s not the same, but it’s on the same side. It’s part of the problem. I feel bad for him because he couldn’t go and we’re having a hard time finding out why and this team could really use him. He could help, but there’s nothing you can do. If you’re hurt, you’re hurt.”

(on if he knows what exam was used to determine the problem) “I just know that they went through many tests last night and I got a call about 10:00 p.m. from Kevin (Bastin) explaining to me what was going on, explained to me about the way I’m explaining to you. I’ll let Kevin do the rest of the work with you.”

(on if WR Jerome Mathis stayed in the hospital) “No, he was here. He actually came over here, was at practice early watching practice. We sent him to a specialist here this afternoon. That’s why he’s not here today. He should be back in the building some time this afternoon, but we’re just really trying to diagnose this issue, trying to get a feel for what we’re looking at because we’re going to have to make a decision. We need to know what we’re dealing with, so we’re trying to get that more defined.”

real
10-04-2007, 04:03 PM
I said that I doubted Mathis was dogging it.

Just couldn't picture a guy who has worked hard enough to get to the level he is at and pulling stunt like that.

It really made no sense.

PapaL
10-04-2007, 04:06 PM
That would be me. Since Mathis, our coach and our medical staff all have a history when it comes to injuries, that cannot be ignored. Therefore, there is no shame. Just a matter of discussion on what our root cause is in this situation.

There is no higher moral ground in this medium, your bark has no bite on this one.

And your calling him out does? Who knows their body the best? Coach? You? Medical Staff that has missed things in the past? Or the Athlete who is hurting?

Nothing wrong with guessing. Calling someone out when you don't know the WHOLE story is another thing.

Plenty of moral ground here; Shut up until you know what is really going on.

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 04:10 PM
And your calling him out does? Who knows their body the best? Coach? You? Medical Staff that has missed things in the past? Or the Athlete who is hurting?

Nothing wrong with guessing. Calling someone out when you don't know the WHOLE story is another thing.

I have not called anyone out, simply have submitted scenarios based on the indicators. A thread has a beginning and end. If you read as such you will see your statement above is exactly what I am doing.

real
10-04-2007, 04:12 PM
Have to admit...Even though Kaiser seemed to be leaning towards the "Jerome is dogging it" side of things, he never really said that....

He said "if"...a lot of us said if though...

PapaL
10-04-2007, 04:13 PM
I have not called anyone out, simply have submitted scenarios based on the indicators. A thread has a beginning and end. If you read as such you will see your statement above is exactly what I am doing.

Then what exactly are you admitting to?

That would be me.

leebigeztx
10-04-2007, 04:14 PM
isnt quincy morgan out there?what about bethel johnson?

real
10-04-2007, 04:14 PM
nice

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 04:14 PM
Then what exactly are you admitting to?

You calling a member out based on limited digestion of that suspect's words.

Lucky
10-04-2007, 04:16 PM
Sounds like Bob Allen owes Mathis an apology. Hopefully, he'll bring Jerome in studio and do it on air.

real
10-04-2007, 04:17 PM
Sounds like Bob Allen owes Mathis an apology. Hopefully, he'll bring Jerome in studio and do it on air.


Great suggestion.

Hopefully he says something.

PapaL
10-04-2007, 04:19 PM
You calling a member out based on limited digestion of that suspect's words.

This isn't calling him out? I.e. He's soft?

Bionics? I think I have the authority, per my Avatar, to speak to Bionics. Mathis may be wired differently than most, but he is more Tin Man than Bionic. :cool:

Does not solve the issue of the root cause - a player with no heart, a player who does not report injuries immediately to get proper care or a bunch of quacks on our medical staff.

It's like Mathis can't win. He says he's hurt - people call him out. He plays hurt this year and he's in the wrong for toughing it out?

badboy
10-04-2007, 04:20 PM
Kubiak on Mathis and other injuries (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3726):Oh, oh. Sounds like Miami is out.

Kaiser Toro
10-04-2007, 04:21 PM
This isn't calling him out? I.e. He's soft?





It's like Mathis can't win. He says he's hurt - people call him out. He plays hurt this year and he's in the wrong for toughing it out?

If you do not get the joke and then cannot see it being emphasized with the smilie, then please pardon me.

DiehardChris
10-04-2007, 04:21 PM
Great suggestion.

Hopefully he says something.

Yeah, him and just about everyone on this board, LOL.

eriadoc
10-04-2007, 04:23 PM
It seems to me that Kubiak's tone is a little different now, re: Mathis. That's good.

santo
10-04-2007, 04:28 PM
I"ll admit. I thought he was being a wuss.

I was getting upset due to the fact that I thought he didn't want to play because of a sore leg. Hopefully it's nothing serious and he can get back healthy so that he can start playing again.

badboy
10-04-2007, 04:56 PM
It seems to me that Kubiak's tone is a little different now, re: Mathis. That's good.Could this be from what medical team was telling him? I had a thread some time back about teams doctors and I focused on the acceptance of LT Tony Boselli health.

SheTexan
10-04-2007, 04:57 PM
Sounds like Bob Allen owes Mathis an apology. Hopefully, he'll bring Jerome in studio and do it on air.

WHY?? For telling the truth, as he see's it?? JMO, BUT, I have a feeling JM is one of the best actors on the team!! We'll see after the specialist gives a report. Regardless, injured or not, he is NOT helping our team!! Put him on IR and pick up someone who cares!!

real
10-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Wow...

TexansLucky13
10-04-2007, 05:12 PM
This thread is a joke. The guy ran a sub 4.3 in the combine. The guy has taken three back for a TD in his career thus far. He depends on his legs. If he doesn't feel comfortable using his legs, let him sit until he does. It is better than him tearing something and missing the entire season.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 09:00 PM
Going back to the original point of the thread, I'd be interested in an actual medical opinion of the leg clots thing. Rumor from the radio says he has blood clots. I haven't seen any written comfirmation in the paper...yet.

Me playing fakey doctor, this is what I think I know:

1. Getting surgery in a leg/foot, makes it more likely you will get blood clots in that leg.

2. His current injury is in the same leg. Symptoms are similar to what people have when they have blood clots in their leg.

3. It is not uncommon for athletes to get blood clots.

4. If this is what it is, it is likely he will be out for the season. They have to put you on blood thinners. When you are on blood thinners, you can't get hit because duh, you will bleed more easily, including internally.

Marcus
10-04-2007, 09:03 PM
Well, I just got home, and finally had a chance to catch up on the thread. If there is a serious problem with his leg, then I express my apologies. I couldn't help but notice the change in tone when Kubiak was talking about him. I feel that he had his own suspicions.

I will say this though. For whatever reasons, he has missed way, way more games than he's played. And that is something, given a limited roster, that cannot be ignored.

PapaL
10-04-2007, 09:03 PM
Going back to the original point of the thread, I'd be interested in an actual medical opinion of the leg clots thing. Rumor from the radio says he has blood clots. I haven't seen any written comfirmation in the paper...yet.

Me playing fakey doctor, this is what I think I know:

1. Getting surgery in a leg/foot, makes it more likely you will get blood clots in that leg.

2. His current injury is in the same leg. Symptoms are similar to what people have when they have blood clots in their leg.

3. It is not uncommon for athletes to get blood clots.

4. If this is what it is, it is likely he will be out for the season. They have to put you on blood thinners. When you are on blood thinners, you can't get hit because duh, you will bleed more easily, including internally.

If this is the case, and I truly hope it is not, football is an after thought. Hopefully the medical staff figures this out quickly for this young man's sake.

Runner
10-04-2007, 09:11 PM
So...

a) if he's not really all that hurt OR

b) if he's hurt again and will have another 3 game season


...is he worth a roster spot next year, or the remainder of this year for that matter?


Talent, heart, and health are all big parts of an NFL player's performance. Mathis is off the chart on kick-off return talent. Is that enough if he is missing either heart or health to a large degree?

ObsiWan
10-04-2007, 09:22 PM
If this is the case, and I truly hope it is not, football is an after thought. Hopefully the medical staff figures this out quickly for this young man's sake.

what he said.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2007, 09:31 PM
Going back to the original point of the thread, I'd be interested in an actual medical opinion of the leg clots thing. Rumor from the radio says he has blood clots. I haven't seen any written comfirmation in the paper...yet.

Me playing fakey doctor, this is what I think I know:

1. Getting surgery in a leg/foot, makes it more likely you will get blood clots in that leg.

2. His current injury is in the same leg. Symptoms are similar to what people have when they have blood clots in their leg.

3. It is not uncommon for athletes to get blood clots.

4. If this is what it is, it is likely he will be out for the season. They have to put you on blood thinners. When you are on blood thinners, you can't get hit because duh, you will bleed more easily, including internally.

First of all, if this ends up being due to "blood clots," after such a long period of symptoms, I'm starting to worry about the caliber of people evaluating him. There are 2 types of blood clots: One is of the superficial vein system and is usually halmarked by redness and tenderness with some element of swelling along the vein. This condition is not dangerous and is treated conservatively with anti-inflammatories, compresses and limited elevation with early amblation. The other type of blood clot is the one most people fear..........that of the deep vein system........the typed that can break off and go to the lungs (pulmonary embolism) and kill a person. It is usually halmarked by diffuse, tender and uncomfortable swelling of a leg. Either can be caused by trauma. This far out of surgery, you would not expect blood clots to likely be related to the trauma of his surgery. Athletes have been known to have these problems simply from long period of immobility on plane trips. The latter type of clot is treated with bed rest (5-10days while being given parenteral blod thinners. After this period of time, the clots have stuck to the vein wall and are not likely to break off. Therefore ambulation is begun. Before the patient is allowed to go home, he is balanced out with oral blood thinner, usually Coumadin (with the other thinner discontinued)............This is oral regimen is usually continued for a period of approximately 6 months. Activities at risk for trauma for obvious reasons are discouraged until the blood thinners are discontinued. Whatever, the cause (and there are a list that would be unlikely in this case), diagnosis is relatively straight forward by simple clinical and doppler studies. Like I said, if this has indeed been of thrombosis origin, I would have to ask why his it taken this long to come up with the diagnosis.

ObsiWan
10-04-2007, 09:43 PM
IIRC, Mathis didn't tell anyone he was ailing right away. Chalk that up to he and Kubiak's little "stay on the field or hit the road talk" the two of them had prior to training camp.

Maybe he's just now getting the right treatment/diagnostic attention.

Marcus
10-04-2007, 10:02 PM
IIRC, Mathis didn't tell anyone he was ailing right away. Chalk that up to he and Kubiak's little "stay on the field or hit the road talk" the two of them had prior to training camp.

Maybe he's just now getting the right treatment/diagnostic attention.

Oh, so now all of sudden this is on Kubiak's head now, huh?

:rolleyes: Typical. Just freakin typical.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 10:07 PM
First of all, if this ends up being due to "blood clots," after such a long period of symptoms, I'm starting to worry about the caliber of people evaluating him. There are 2 types of blood clots: One is of the superficial vein system and is usually halmarked by redness and tenderness with some element of swelling along the vein. This condition is not dangerous and is treated conservatively with anti-inflammatories, compresses and limited elevation with early amblation. The other type of blood clot is the one most people fear..........that of the deep vein system........the typed that can break off and go to the lungs (pulmonary embolism) and kill a person. It is usually halmarked by diffuse, tender and uncomfortable swelling of a leg. Either can be caused by trauma. This far out of surgery, you would not expect blood clots to likely be related to the trauma of his surgery. Athletes have been known to have these problems simply from long period of immobility on plane trips. The latter type of clot is treated with bed rest (5-10days while being given parenteral blod thinners. After this period of time, the clots have stuck to the vein wall and are not likely to break off. Therefore ambulation is begun. Before the patient is allowed to go home, he is balanced out with oral blood thinner, usually Coumadin (with the other thinner discontinued)............This is oral regimen is usually continued for a period of approximately 6 months. Activities at risk for trauma for obvious reasons are discouraged until the blood thinners are discontinued. Whatever, the cause (and there are a list that would be unlikely in this case), diagnosis is relatively straight forward by simple clinical and doppler studies. Like I said, if this has indeed been of thrombosis origin, I would have to ask why his it taken this long to come up with the diagnosis.

Ha. I knew if I starting playing pretend doc, you would set us straight. :cool:

Thanks a ton.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 10:10 PM
IIRC, Mathis didn't tell anyone he was ailing right away. Chalk that up to he and Kubiak's little "stay on the field or hit the road talk" the two of them had prior to training camp.

Maybe he's just now getting the right treatment/diagnostic attention.

I think it might just be a reflection that sometimes the symptoms of leg clots are subtle and can feel just like muscle soreness.

It's difficult sometimes to distinguish between normal sore and injury.

Someone I know who is one of the best docs in town failed to diagnose his own DVT until it became serious and affected his lungs.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2007, 10:16 PM
So...

a) if he's not really all that hurt OR

b) if he's hurt again and will have another 3 game season


...is he worth a roster spot next year, or the remainder of this year for that matter?


Talent, heart, and health are all big parts of an NFL player's performance. Mathis is off the chart on kick-off return talent. Is that enough if he is missing either heart or health to a large degree?

He has raw talent in spades. Even with what he has done with just kick off returns, he is a game changer.

I will leave heart measuring to the cardiologists.

As for his health, maybe Kubiak is right, maybe this is something that ails him early in his career and not so much later. I'm guessing you make decisions as it relates to his future with the team as you see his work habits and attitude.

At the end of the day, I do think that the team needs to systematically look at how it diagnoses and treats injuries. He complained about this injury two Mondays ago. And since two Wednesdays ago, what we were hearing was sort of dismissive--like if it doesn't show up on an MRI or an XRay, it must not exist.

El cabezon
10-04-2007, 10:25 PM
WHY?? For telling the truth, as he see's it?? JMO, BUT, I have a feeling JM is one of the best actors on the team!! We'll see after the specialist gives a report. Regardless, injured or not, he is NOT helping our team!! Put him on IR and pick up someone who cares!!

With all due respect....grow up lady.

edo783
10-04-2007, 10:59 PM
With all due respect....grow up lady.

Man, you have no idea do you?

ObsiWan
10-04-2007, 11:14 PM
Oh, so now all of sudden this is on Kubiak's head now, huh?

:rolleyes: Typical. Just freakin typical.

That post wasn't about placing blame; although after re-reading what I said, I can see how you might think that's what I meant. Its not like Kubiak won't hold players out for a week or two that have been "nicked up".

All I'm saying is, with his "new attitude" maybe JM thought it was simple muscle soreness and believed that he could "work through it".

It would be good to see an official diagnosis.

Specnatz
10-04-2007, 11:24 PM
With all due respect....grow up lady.

Got to love someone who says with all do respect, might as well say no offense then bash someone, it is still an attack.

drewmar74
10-04-2007, 11:37 PM
Well, I'm glad that they caught it because I know just enough about blood clots to know that they're scary as all get out. I'd hate to think that something might have happened to him because of a missed diagnosis so I'm thankful that they finally did figure it out!

So, is it safe to assume that (whatever the nature of the clots) that Jerome is done for the year? If so, man, that flat out just sucks.

I know he has much more to worry about than football right now, but the boy can flat out change a game and I'd hate to lose that.

In the meantime I suppose we can all pray for his full and complete recovery.....

eriadoc
10-05-2007, 01:05 AM
So...

a) if he's not really all that hurt OR

b) if he's hurt again and will have another 3 game season


...is he worth a roster spot next year, or the remainder of this year for that matter?


Talent, heart, and health are all big parts of an NFL player's performance. Mathis is off the chart on kick-off return talent. Is that enough if he is missing either heart or health to a large degree?

If it's a desire issue, then no, I don't think he's worth a roster spot. If it's a health issue, then I say it depends on who else they're putting in his spot. David Anderson for 5th WR? I'd say no. There is a lot to be said for being among the best at something. There aren't too many players on the roster that are among the best at what they do - AJ, Robinson, Ryans ... and Mathis. Outside of Devin Hester, I'm not sure there's a better KR in the NFL. And if (dirty word again) Mathis can get and stay healthy, he might give Hester a run for his money.

If Kubiak truly has a better option next year, then I say Good Luck elsewhere, Mathis. But if it's Mathis vs. Anderson, McCardell, a 17th TE, or some special teams backup long snapper, then I say Mathis is worth the spot.

All this, of course, is assuming he's healthy, which is a big assumption.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2007, 07:46 AM
He has raw talent in spades. Even with what he has done with just kick off returns, he is a game changer.

I will leave heart measuring to the cardiologists.

As for his health, maybe Kubiak is right, maybe this is something that ails him early in his career and not so much later. I'm guessing you make decisions as it relates to his future with the team as you see his work habits and attitude.

At the end of the day, I do think that the team needs to systematically look at how it diagnoses and treats injuries. He complained about this injury two Mondays ago. And since two Wednesdays ago, what we were hearing was sort of dismissive--like if it doesn't show up on an MRI or an XRay, it must not exist.


No mention of any blood clot.....just the fibula (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5190006.html) (the smaller bone of the lower leg) which is not a documented previous injury. You don't mix up a skeletal diagnosis like this with a diagnosis of blood clot....................This story is becoming more convoluted by the day.


Mathis sees specialist
Doctors put wide receiver/kick returner Jerome Mathis through a series of tests at the hospital late Wednesday in an attempt to determine exactly what has him sidelined. Mathis complained of a sore lower leg after the Indianapolis game and didn't play against Atlanta. On Thursday, the Texans sent Mathis to a specialist.

"Jerome does have a problem with his lower leg," coach Gary Kubiak said. "We found the spot. Now we're in the process of diagnosing how severe it is and how long it's going to take."

On the injury report, the team is calling it an injury to the fibula.

"He definitely has a problem," Kubiak said. "I know he's going to miss some time, but I have no idea how long."

Mathis, who is one of the NFL's top kickoff returners, has been injury-prone since he joined the Texans.

"It's very disappointing because he did everything we asked him to do," Kubiak said. "He worked extremely hard. He was helping this team, and then this starts again."

BTW, 610 New flash quotes Kubiak as stating that they finally have a handle on what's going on with Mathis after yesterday's "evaluation"...........and it's "legitemate." Again, in Texans fashion, it's still NOT CHARACTERIZED.............

Texans_Chick
10-05-2007, 09:46 AM
No mention of any blood clot.....just the tibia (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5190006.html) (the smaller bone of the lower leg) which is not a documented previous injury. You don't mix up a skeletal diagnosis like this with a diagnosis of blood clot....................This story is becoming more convoluted by the day.




BTW, 610 New flash quotes Kubiak as stating that they finally have a handle on what's going on with Mathis after yesterday's "evaluation"...........and it's "legitemate." Again, in Texans fashion, it's still NOT CHARACTERIZED.............


Very convoluted.

If he had a problem with his shin, why would he be icing his ankle and wrapping his foot, which are both things that a reporter saw?

dalemurphy
10-05-2007, 09:52 AM
Very convoluted.

If he had a problem with his shin, why would he be icing his ankle and wrapping his foot, which are both things that a reporter saw?

Did the trainer take questions from reporters yesterday? Kubiak made it sound like he was going to be available to do so, yet I've not heard anything.

badboy
10-05-2007, 10:19 AM
First of all, if this ends up being due to "blood clots," after such a long period of symptoms, I'm starting to worry about the caliber of people evaluating him. There are 2 types of blood clots: One is of the superficial vein system and is usually halmarked by redness and tenderness with some element of swelling along the vein. This condition is not dangerous and is treated conservatively with anti-inflammatories, compresses and limited elevation with early amblation. The other type of blood clot is the one most people fear..........that of the deep vein system........the typed that can break off and go to the lungs (pulmonary embolism) and kill a person. It is usually halmarked by diffuse, tender and uncomfortable swelling of a leg. Either can be caused by trauma. This far out of surgery, you would not expect blood clots to likely be related to the trauma of his surgery. Athletes have been known to have these problems simply from long period of immobility on plane trips. The latter type of clot is treated with bed rest (5-10days while being given parenteral blod thinners. After this period of time, the clots have stuck to the vein wall and are not likely to break off. Therefore ambulation is begun. Before the patient is allowed to go home, he is balanced out with oral blood thinner, usually Coumadin (with the other thinner discontinued)............This is oral regimen is usually continued for a period of approximately 6 months. Activities at risk for trauma for obvious reasons are discouraged until the blood thinners are discontinued. Whatever, the cause (and there are a list that would be unlikely in this case), diagnosis is relatively straight forward by simple clinical and doppler studies. Like I said, if this has indeed been of thrombosis origin, I would have to ask why his it taken this long to come up with the diagnosis.

Recently on TV and news paper there was info on a new technique where in doctors enter a tube & camera find the clot and literally clamp on to the sucker and pull it out. Supposedly, a lot safer system than hoping the clot sticks to wall or disolves enough to not be a danger passing through. Think more, it may have been more of a cork screw typr removal of the clot than a "clamp & remove". Anyway, my prayers are with Mathis.

Marcus
10-05-2007, 10:33 AM
Did the trainer take questions from reporters yesterday? Kubiak made it sound like he was going to be available to do so, yet I've not heard anything.

He sure made it sound like it with those numerous "you'll have to refer to Kevin" statements. So when is Kevin supposed to make himself available, or will he?

I may need to refer to CloakNNDagger here, but I'm wondering if the new HIPAA policy, which does not allow any medical information to be divulged except at the consent of both the player and the team, is coming into play here. First, there was this vagueness with AJ's injury, now this one with Mathis.

I'm wondering if I should start up a "guess the injury" pool. :rolleyes:

threetoedpete
10-05-2007, 01:38 PM
This does appear to be a recurring theme with Mathis. Too bad - he has a lot of talent but that doesn't help if you refuse to play every time the going gets tough.

You're thier tagret domographic there Buffi.

Allstar
10-05-2007, 03:38 PM
So when Jacoby comes back, is it safe to assume that he'll return kicks as well as punts?

edo783
10-05-2007, 06:19 PM
So when Jacoby comes back, is it safe to assume that he'll return kicks as well as punts?

Sort of sounded that way.

Texans_Chick
10-05-2007, 06:36 PM
News on Mathis and other injuries (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3734):

Head coach Gary Kubiak

(on if anything is new today) “No, just some information on (Jerome) Mathis because I know you all want to know. He has a stress-related issue in his lower leg. There is still an evaluation process going on. He has what they call a hot spot that can, is it a stress fracture? We don’t know that yet, but he has a problem in there. Our issue right now is trying to make a decision of how long it’s going to be before he can get back on the field. As you all know, we have tough, tough situations going on at wide receiver with a couple of other guys out. So now this is three. We have to make a decision with the doctors on how long we think it’s going to take for him to get well and then we have a tough decision to make whether we put him on IR or we wait. That’s what we’re evaluating right now.”

(on WR Jerome Mathis’ roster spot on Sunday) “If we replace that spot, on Sunday, it will be replaced with Harry Williams, but we’re still in the process of making that decision.”

(on if they didn’t activate another receiver, would he dress four tight ends) “Yes, we could move our roster around. As far as having the 45 guys to play, it’s not an issue, whatever we do. I think we have a decision to make in the next 24 to 48 hours with Jerome (Mathis) and we’ll do that."

(on if there is the expectation that WR Jerome Mathis will be back by the end of the season) “I don’t know how to answer that right now because my mind is so on the game right now and that’s what I'm going up there to do this afternoon, to evaluate everything the doctors are saying, the amount of time they’re talking about it taking, and me and (general manager) Rick (Smith) have to sit down and see if we need to put him on IR and bring a player up and move on, or do we wait. I will know more as I’m talking to these guys this afternoon because, like I said, my focus today at practice was totally somewhere else. Hopefully you all understand that.”

(on if they are waiting on more tests) “No, we know. We know what the problem is and they’re evaluating the problem as we speak. We’ve been given some guidelines of what they think, but I want to talk to them personally. I have not been involved in the conversations with the doctors because I’ve been out here, getting these guys ready to play. I will be involved in that this afternoon. I will have more concrete answers from (head athletic trainer) Kevin (Bastin), and the doctors, and (general manager) Rick (Smith), and then we’ll make a decision.”

(on if it’s important to have the fourth receiver ready to play on Sunday) “To play with three receivers in a game is very, very difficult but we sent three out there last week and they played extremely well. If that’s something we have to do this week, if we think it gives us the best chance to win, we’ll go do it again. Our situation is what it is and we have to move on and that’s what we’re doing every day.”

(on RB Ahman Green’s status) “He practiced today much more. I would say he is still a game time decision, but it was very encouraging.”

(on WR Jacoby Jones’ status) “I would say exactly what I said yesterday. He’s behind Ahman (Green). He was out here; he did not do much. I would think it’s a tough call with Jacoby. It’s still a game time call, but let’s face it, he has not made the progress that Ahman has made.”

(on if he will use the same players on punt and kick returns) “Yes, and if Jacoby (Jones) is ready to go, then he’ll do both. But if not, then Dexter (Wynn) is the guy. You may see André Davis return kicks too.”

(on what he has seen from WR Harry Williams) “We liked what he did throughout the camp. (Special teams coordinator) Joe (Marciano) really likes him as a special teams player. He played really well as a special teams player. He’s a big kid. We’ve been repping him this week as if he’s going to play and going to be up and he’s responded and done well. But we have to look at the game plan of what we’re doing and see if it makes sense to bring him up this week. That’s what I have do.”

(on how RB Ron Dayne looked in practice) “He looked good. (He) had a real good practice yesterday, practiced well today. I’m expecting him to come back and run the football well."

Same leg as the foot he had surgery on BTW.

GlassHalfFull
10-05-2007, 08:41 PM
Here is what they are saying on the Chronicle now:

The Texans finally have pinpointed what is wrong with Jerome Mathis' left leg, and it's enough to likely sideline him for the rest of the season.

After almost two days of testing, team doctors found a ''hot spot'' in the lower part of his leg, which is causing excruciating pain for Mathis during and after running. The Texans are expected to place Mathis, 24, on injured reserve and sign wide receiver Harry Williams off the practice squad for the game against Miami on Sunday at Reliant Stadium.



Full article here (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5192491.html)

drewmar74
10-05-2007, 09:03 PM
Here is what they are saying on the Chronicle now:



Full article here (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5192491.html)

Pardon me in advance but...

#@%^!

That sucks!

PapaL
10-05-2007, 09:04 PM
Well, I guess I need to adpot a new player.

nunusguy
10-05-2007, 09:10 PM
I would imagine nobody is more upset about this than mathis himself.
He is just injury-prone, that's all there is to it. And it may or may not have anything to do with him being a former Track guy. In spite of goofeying off in
past years, everything I've seen indicates he's given it his best shot this time around.

Htownsportsfan
10-05-2007, 11:15 PM
I would imagine nobody is more upset about this than mathis himself.
He is just injury-prone, that's all there is to it. And it may or may not have anything to do with him being a former Track guy. In spite of goofeying off in
past years, everything I've seen indicates he's given it his best shot this time around.

But what does it say that he has given it his best shot and still is going to miss the reast of the year. This is frustrating as hell! Mathis is a great threat as a reeturn man but if he cant make it a whole season he is doing the team an injustice by not having someone on the squad getting reps who might be able to help the team. Its just so damn frustrating year after year!

Texans_Chick
10-06-2007, 01:33 PM
It's official. Mathis is on IR, Harry Williams is now on the team off of the practice squad:

The Houston Texans have placed WR Jerome Mathis on the reserve/injured list with a lower leg injury and signed WR Harry Williams from the practice squad to the active roster, it was announced today.


Williams (6-2, 187) spent the last week of the 2006 season on the Texans practice squad. He spent the past spring in NFL Europa with the Amsterdam Admirals where he caught 15 passes for 216 yards and two touchdowns. He added one two-point reception and one special teams tackle. Williams was originally a seventh-round pick by the New York Jets in 2005, he played in one game as a rookie.


Williams finished his collegiate career with 83 receptions for 1,584 yards (19.1 avg.) and eight scores in his four years at Tuskegee. He averaged 23.8 yards per kick return on 19 returns for a total of 453 yards. He appeared in 12 games as a senior in 2004 and produced a career single-season high with 43 receptions for 678 yards and three touchdowns.

JDizzle
10-06-2007, 01:46 PM
Craptastic.

PapaL
10-06-2007, 02:00 PM
Sig updated. Hope to see you back next year J.M.

Double Barrel
10-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Man, what a bummer. Both our return guys out, 3 of 4 WRs out, RB out, center out...Schaub and our D seem to be our only hope. 2-0 seems so long ago now.

Marcus
10-06-2007, 02:41 PM
Man, what a bummer. Both our return guys out, 3 of 4 WRs out, RB out, center out...Schaub and our D seem to be our only hope. 2-0 seems so long ago now.

Yeah, no running game and backup receivers. Perfect recipe for more bad playcalling and more bad clock management, hey?

Sorry, just couldn't help myself. :hide:

ObsiWan
10-06-2007, 06:12 PM
Yeah, no running game and backup receivers. Perfect recipe for more bad playcalling and more bad clock management, hey?

Sorry, just couldn't help myself. :hide:

its pretty hard to cook up ribeye steaks when all you got in the frig is chicken wings.

dskillz
10-06-2007, 07:45 PM
Yeah, no running game and backup receivers. Perfect recipe for more bad playcalling and more bad clock management, hey?

Sorry, just couldn't help myself. :hide:

Yeah, Kubiak did admit that coaching was a component in the loss last week. Hopefully that won't be the case this week. We are banged up enough not to have to overcome bad playcalling.

CloakNNNdagger
10-07-2007, 12:22 PM
McClain on 610 pregame show just "confirmed" that Mathis has a "lower leg stress fracture."