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View Full Version : CBS Sportsline: Reggie Bush is fast becoming 21st-century Mandarich


Texans34Life
09-26-2007, 11:59 PM
Wow, some good news for us Texans fans.... :texflag:

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10373639/2

The problem with Bush is that his impact on a game is extremely minimal as compared to the media hype and endorsement frenzy. I may be sick of seeing Peyton Manning's mug on television more than Larry King's but Manning is one of the top five most pivotal players in football.

Defensive coordinators have told me this season that Bush may be seen as a superstar to the general public but he is not someone who keeps them awake at night. They say he's not as fast as he looks, can be covered by a linebacker one-on-one and gets shy around contact. That last description is not exactly what you want to hear about your franchise runner.

Now we will get to see just how good Bush is and if he is worth the hype. With the loss of the Saints' real running back, Deuce McAllister, to a torn knee ligament, the team will rely heavily on Bush.

I can tell you everyone in football is watching what happens next not with the Saints but with Bush.

If Bush is so good, as his P.R. machine wants everyone to believe, he'll use McAllister's absence to prove me and his critics wrong and take the Saints on his back.

But I don't think Bush will prove anyone wrong because Bush has pulled a Mandarich on the Saints and the NFL by bamboozling many normally smart guys who should know better. His USC hype and Denzel looks overpowered the Saints' common sense. Now, they're paying the price for utilizing such a high pick on a guy who is basically Dave Meggett.

Do you remember how people were actually comparing Bush to Gayle Sayers?

Bush = Gayle Sayers. That's just insane in the membrane.

Bill Parcells called Bush a "satellite player." (Leave it to Bill "Gandolfini" Parcells to come up with some smart-ass Jersey lexicon.) Parcells went on to explain the phrase satellite player by stating Bush plays in space. Great. Now Bush is Reggie Sputnik.

The coming days and months will get interesting for Bush and the Saints. He was last year's golden dude but this season he is receiving much more scrutiny and even criticism. Bush in 2006 enjoyed a post-Katrina boost from the league, the media and fans with all three overlooking Bush's on-field shortcomings because of his charitable contributions and the team's special circumstances.

Now that the Saints are 0-3 and their best player is gone for the year, that once-present glow has thinned and reality has hit.

And the reality is that Bush is not so far off from being the 21st century version of Mandarich, the greatest draft huckster ever.

So good luck with Bush, New Orleans.

Is it too late for the Saints to draft a running back?

There's more to the story, but go ahead and click on the link to read more!

kiwitexansfan
09-27-2007, 01:32 AM
Can we and every media outlet please close the Bush/Mario debate now and admit we made the right move with those two....

No for Mario to close down the VY/Mario debate

Scooter
09-27-2007, 02:08 AM
Bill Parcells called Bush a "satellite player." (Leave it to Bill "Gandolfini" Parcells to come up with some smart-ass Jersey lexicon.) Parcells went on to explain the phrase satellite player by stating Bush plays in space. Great. Now Bush is Reggie Sputnik.

this is what the media chooses to ignore. review bush's highlights both at USC and N.O., he's never touched and has insane amounts of blocking to run through. he's a screen pass and 3rd & long draw play specialist. sure he can stop on a dime and make poor tacklers fly past, but even if you're playing against kansas city, pro teams dont tackle that bad consistantly.

Carr Bombed
09-27-2007, 02:47 AM
Can we and every media outlet please close the Bush/Mario debate now and admit we made the right move with those two....

No for Mario to close down the VY/Mario debate

The only thing that's going to save Mario in the VY/Mario debate is if Schaub turns out to be a better quarterback than VY.

Mario is going to need a little help from his friends (Schaub) in that debate.

TexanExile
09-27-2007, 07:29 AM
Wow, some good news for us Texans fans.... :texflag:

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10373639/2



There's more to the story, but go ahead and click on the link to read more!

:thud:

I didn't expect that harsh of a Bush criticism for another year or so, given the level of praise heaped on the guy while he's underperforming now. And I wouldn't go that far, anyway. He's an excellent special-teams weapon and a fine wide receiver in certain formations. Going to the Mandarich reference is, I think, a bit over the top.

Nice to FINALLY see some dissenting opinions allowed, though!

BattleRedToro
09-27-2007, 07:33 AM
The only thing that's going to save Mario in the VY/Mario debate is if Schaub turns out to be a better quarterback than VY.

Mario is going to need a little help from his friends (Schaub) in that debate.

That isn't necessarily so. It is possible for Vince Young's or Mario William's play to change over time in such a way as to show that one is clearly better than the other. It is also possible that the arguement over whom is better could become a push.

swtbound07
09-27-2007, 07:35 AM
:thud:

I didn't expect that harsh of a Bush criticism for another year or so, given the level of praise heaped on the guy while he's underperforming now. And I wouldn't go that far, anyway. He's an excellent special-teams weapon and a fine wide receiver in certain formations. Going to the Mandarich reference is, I think, a bit over the top.

Nice to FINALLY see some dissenting opinions allowed, though!

ummm...he has one career punt return touchdown, and is only periodically used on punts and kicks. Jacoby has a punt return touchdown...Mathis has a plethora of kick return touchdowns. He's no weapon

Mr teX
09-27-2007, 07:43 AM
While i'm glad to see the hype surrounding him die down a bit, it still doesn't mean that we made the right pick. We're on the hook regardless b/c we had the no. 1 overall pick. If any of those top guys (RB,VY, ML, JC) go on to have HOF careers & Mario turns out to be average, the hype machine will turn to them & we'll still be looked @ as goats.

The only way we escape this is if Mario turns into the 2nd coming of Deacon Jones/Reggie White/Bruce Smith.

TexanExile
09-27-2007, 08:17 AM
ummm...he has one career punt return touchdown, and is only periodically used on punts and kicks. Jacoby has a punt return touchdown...Mathis has a plethora of kick return touchdowns. He's no weapon

I think that's a little harsh. Not sure what the Texans' performances have to do with the point about Bush's ability in particular, but I'll go along...Bush had one TD on punt returns last year, the Texans had 0. If I'm reading the stats at NFL.com correctly (and I may not be), there were only 15 punts returned for TDs in the entire NFL last season. (That's across 250+ regular season games played by all teams combined.) That one TD means the Saints were tied for 2nd in the league for punt-return TDs(!). In the big picture, then, that one TD maybe is more significant than some would think.

If by "plethora" of kick-return TDs you mean 3 out of 72 career attempts, then yes, Mathis has a "plethora." (Serious 3 Amigos flashback right now.) I think that's a lot, personally...definitely more bang for the buck than Bush. But to say Bush is "no weapon" is farther than I'd go at this point.

I've criticized a lot of writers for being too quick to pronounce him the next Gale Sayers. Similarly, I think it's too early to call him Tony Mandarich or Ryan Leaf. Wish we could all just ignore the guy for a season or two and then give him the attention (positive or negative) that he earns.

kastofsna
09-27-2007, 08:55 AM
Bush is not a special teams weapon. he wasn't even one in college. as much as he's been overrated in all other areas of his game, the one area he's been most overrated in is his abilities in the return game. very pedestrian there.

his one TD in the NFL was against the Bucs, when their punter kicked to the wrong side of the coverage, allowing Bush to waltz into the endzone untouched.

so i guess he's a weapon only if you mess up and make it insanely easy for him. which makes as much sense as calling a receiver a "threat to get to the endzone on every catch" because his only career TD was when the CB covering him fell down at the line of scrimmage.

tulexan
09-27-2007, 09:51 AM
ummm...he has one career punt return touchdown, and is only periodically used on punts and kicks. Jacoby has a punt return touchdown...Mathis has a plethora of kick return touchdowns. He's no weapon

Jacoby has a touchdown? I must have missed that one. Preseason doesn't count.

Interesting stat...Reggie Bush's longest run of his career 18 yards. College is much different than the pros.

Goldensilence
09-27-2007, 11:05 AM
I think that's a little harsh. Not sure what the Texans' performances have to do with the point about Bush's ability in particular, but I'll go along...Bush had one TD on punt returns last year, the Texans had 0. If I'm reading the stats at NFL.com correctly (and I may not be), there were only 15 punts returned for TDs in the entire NFL last season. (That's across 250+ regular season games played by all teams combined.) That one TD means the Saints were tied for 2nd in the league for punt-return TDs(!). In the big picture, then, that one TD maybe is more significant than some would think.

If by "plethora" of kick-return TDs you mean 3 out of 72 career attempts, then yes, Mathis has a "plethora." (Serious 3 Amigos flashback right now.) I think that's a lot, personally...definitely more bang for the buck than Bush. But to say Bush is "no weapon" is farther than I'd go at this point.

I've criticized a lot of writers for being too quick to pronounce him the next Gale Sayers. Similarly, I think it's too early to call him Tony Mandarich or Ryan Leaf. Wish we could all just ignore the guy for a season or two and then give him the attention (positive or negative) that he earns.

Maybe it was him maybe it wasn't just his fault regaurding the hype surrounding him. All i'm saying is most Texan fans, myself included, took the draft a bit personally when we were lambasted for not choosing the next football Jesus.In hindsight all we're saying in the decision is looking better and better.

Look though honestly he has the rest of the season to prove his detractors wrong. This team let last season go to their head and if they want to Salvage this one Stecker is going to have to get the tough carries and Brees needs to make better decisions. Payton needs to stop being cute and get back to fundamentals like under Parcells.

TexanExile
09-27-2007, 12:10 PM
Maybe it was him maybe it wasn't just his fault regaurding the hype surrounding him. All i'm saying is most Texan fans, myself included, took the draft a bit personally when we were lambasted for not choosing the next football Jesus.In hindsight all we're saying in the decision is looking better and better.

Look though honestly he has the rest of the season to prove his detractors wrong. This team let last season go to their head and if they want to Salvage this one Stecker is going to have to get the tough carries and Brees needs to make better decisions. Payton needs to stop being cute and get back to fundamentals like under Parcells.

I completely agree with all of that, including the part about the national NFL community (media and fans) crushing the Texans for not taking the little dude. As someone who lived outside Houston at the time but was openly a Texans diehard, I took endless grief from friends and co-workers about it. I never thought he was the right guy for the Texans, but every time I said that, I was accused by others of being an "Texan apologist" or just "trying to make it look good." It got old!

I want the team to succeed, and I want Mario to succeed. What Bush or that other guy does isn't as important to me as what Mario does, but with Bush in particular, the hype was so frustrating that we seem to be lashing out way past the "I told you so" mark sometimes. This is a classy bunch of fans, and I hope we stay that way.

Let me add this: the fans here and in N.O. who say "it isn't his fault that he got hyped" are off. It absolutely is his fault, to some extent. He hired the agents. He signed the endorsements. He allows his image, his interviews, and everything else to spread like they do. The guy has every right to do that, but if he wants to profit from the hype machine he built, he can't be surprised when somebody asks him to back it up on the field too.

kastofsna
09-27-2007, 12:18 PM
yeah, it's fairly easy to see why Texans fans would react this way when Bush doesn't do well. remember his big play against the Cowboys last year? remember Al Michaels shouting "why in the world did the Texans pass on THIS??" after the play? embarrassing. but also funny!

Mr teX
09-27-2007, 02:10 PM
yeah, it's fairly easy to see why Texans fans would react this way when Bush doesn't do well. remember his big play against the Cowboys last year? remember Al Michaels shouting "why in the world did the Texans pass on THIS??" after the play? embarrassing. but also funny!

It'd be funny if Sean Payton held a press conference talking about this article & went off Mike Gundy style........

"COME AFTER ME, I'M 45, I'M A MAN!!!"

primadox
09-27-2007, 02:14 PM
I've criticized a lot of writers for being too quick to pronounce him the next Gale Sayers. Similarly, I think it's too early to call him Tony Mandarich or Ryan Leaf. Wish we could all just ignore the guy for a season or two and then give him the attention (positive or negative) that he earns.

Great comment. I've been saying that since last year, about both Bush and Mario. It's TOO SOON to say whether either is a bust or a star. I find it amusing that after only 3 games he's suddenly a bust...Deuce didn't do anything the first few games either, and look at Brees...if anything is a bust, it's the Saints offensive line.

Burden is still on Bush now, however. He wanted to be the feature back, now he's got to prove the hype. Saints fans are not saying anything differently...time to step up, Reggie!

nunusguy
09-27-2007, 03:41 PM
Lets be candid here and admit that VY was never really in the discussion since the Texans collectively that Carr was their guy at QB (whoever you define that to be: McNair making the call by himself or Kubiak being a part of the decision), so it was Mario vs. the field, which then included Bush, D'Brick, AJ Hawk, etc. or of course trading the pick.
I'm still not convinced that Mario was the best among that group, but I'm confidant now that he was a better choice than Bush. Honestly, I dunno if Bush was really worthy of being a 1st round pick, but I don't doubt that Mario was.
Bush simply lacks the size and physical configuration to be a true NFL running back, and worse he appears to have a real aversion for contact.

TexansCM
09-27-2007, 03:46 PM
Maybe it is just me, but does anyone think that many of the guys that bust in the league do so because of money. 1st round picks can live on their first contract for the rest of their life if they want. I look at guys like Reggie Bush and he is set no matter if he sucks or dominates. What is the motivation? TJ anyone? Give guys 3 years to prove themselves, the teams have to do that because of the financial ramifications. I think performance based pay would translate into fewer busts and maybe guys like Reggie, Carr and others would need to step up be out of work. Guys like Demeco and Owen are they really that much better than other 1st round draft picks or do they just have more to lose.

primadox
09-27-2007, 05:16 PM
I just find it funny, and annoying, that the media annoints people busts or superstars without proof, and too quickly. Mario was a "bust" of a first round pick before he played a down; Reggie was a superstar. Now after 3 games where the Texans have improved and the Saints are declining, Mario is the star and Reggie is the bust. I don't think Reggie is solely responsible for the Saints poor play any more than Mario is the reason the Texans are doing so well. If we're going to ride the "Reggie is a bust" wave, then let's go farther and say that LT was a one-year wonder. He's not doing much better. I don't believe LT is not going to play well this year any more than I think Reggie is a bust. TIME WILL TELL...but the media likes to tell us first. :D

thunderkyss
09-27-2007, 07:01 PM
The only thing that's going to save Mario in the VY/Mario debate is if Schaub turns out to be a better quarterback than VY.

Mario is going to need a little help from his friends (Schaub) in that debate.

I don't think so. Who cares if Schaub is better/worse than Vince. There's no way to "really" judge the two. It's like saying Brady is better than McNabb... Brady's won more SuperBowls, but you can't play the position any better than McNabb has in his career.

They're both good.

Vince can be Vince, and he can be the best QB in Tennessee history. He can be the starting QB at the probowl, and Schaub can miss the probowl all
together.

But if the Houston Texans are hosting the AFC Championship game, who can say we made the wrong move??

Especially if Defense is a big part of that.

thunderkyss
09-27-2007, 07:09 PM
I think that's a little harsh. Not sure what the Texans' performances have to do with the point about Bush's ability in particular, but I'll go along...Bush had one TD on punt returns last year, the Texans had 0. If I'm reading the stats at NFL.com correctly (and I may not be), there were only 15 punts returned for TDs in the entire NFL last season. (That's across 250+ regular season games played by all teams combined.) That one TD means the Saints were tied for 2nd in the league for punt-return TDs(!). In the big picture, then, that one TD maybe is more significant than some would think.

If by "plethora" of kick-return TDs you mean 3 out of 72 career attempts, then yes, Mathis has a "plethora." (Serious 3 Amigos flashback right now.) I think that's a lot, personally...definitely more bang for the buck than Bush. But to say Bush is "no weapon" is farther than I'd go at this point.

I've criticized a lot of writers for being too quick to pronounce him the next Gale Sayers. Similarly, I think it's too early to call him Tony Mandarich or Ryan Leaf. Wish we could all just ignore the guy for a season or two and then give him the attention (positive or negative) that he earns.


So you're saying in hindsight, you'd use your #1 pick for that 1 punt return touchdown??

That's what we're talking about, and that's what I've always said. Never in the history of this league(at least since I've been watching) has a player like Reggie Bush been selected #1 overall.

There are things you'd like to see in a #1 overall RunningBack. There are some things you'd like to see in your #1 overall WR. But you won't find any coach in the league, or GM for that matter, that can produce a list of qualities they'd like to see in their #1 overall punt returner.

TexanExile
09-27-2007, 07:40 PM
So you're saying in hindsight, you'd use your #1 pick for that 1 punt return touchdown??

That's what we're talking about, and that's what I've always said.


Never said anything like that anywhere in this thread (or anywhere else). I said 1) I'm glad Houston took Williams, 2) Bush has been grossly overhyped, 3) it's too early to pile on and say Bush is a complete bust like Mandarich, and 4) Bush should get a lot of the blame for his ridiculous hype level.

The topic of the thread was an article calling Bush the next Mandarich, not whether drafting a punt returner 1st is smart. That is what I was talking about.

Second Honeymoon
09-27-2007, 08:26 PM
its obvious the Texans made a good decision in passing on Reggie Bush at #1....that doesn't mean they made the right pick in Mario. It's all about wins. if Schaub continues to play well and Mario contributes substantially to a playoff caliber defense, THEN they made the right pick. Right now Vince was the best player to come out of the 2006 draft and its not even that close. He is far from perfect but he just gets it done.

VY > Mario. The Texans blew it but the Schaub move accompanied with Carr's release and Mario's continued development could put those questions to bed. It looks like Okoye is gonna be a force and maybe can help push Mario along competitively. As long as Schaub does well, the VY v. Mario is a mute question....it is nice seeing RB fail though. He was an arrogant ahole and he needs to grow a pair in order to be a true NFL running back.

MojoMan
09-27-2007, 09:25 PM
Bush has never been THE feature back, either at USC or New Orleans. Maybe he just has not had the chance. I am not saying this to suggest that the Texans should have taken Bush - I have been a vocal proponent of the Mario Williams selection since before they picked him. But it does not follow that I want to see Bush fail.

Reggie Bush (6-0, 203) (http://www.nfl.com/players/reggiebush/profile?id=BUS294963) is not particularly "small" as many people try to suggest, especially when compared to either Barry Sanders (5-8, 203) (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=187) or Walter Payton (5-10, 200) (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=174). Also, Bush does not have a history of being particularly injury prone. He has had shared the backfield with large, very capable backs at both USC (L. White) and at New Orleans (D. McAllister). It makes sense that he would be used in a complementary manner to these two players.

Since Reggie Bush is getting paid top dollar by the Saints, and McAllister is out for the season, what if the Saints just pull out all the stops and start using him like a Walter Payton or a Barry Sanders, which includes lots of running between the tackles? Maybe he could be good running between the tackles. I would like to see him have the chance.

Bulluck53
09-27-2007, 10:21 PM
I liked the Mario pick and think he will be a great contributor throughout his career.

I'm glad you passed on VY, though.

thunderkyss
09-27-2007, 10:54 PM
its obvious the Texans made a good decision in passing on Reggie Bush at #1....that doesn't mean they made the right pick in Mario. It's all about wins. if Schaub continues to play well and Mario contributes substantially to a playoff caliber defense, THEN they made the right pick. Right now Vince was the best player to come out of the 2006 draft and its not even that close. He is far from perfect but he just gets it done.


Even had the Texans not picked Mario, they wouldn't have picked Vince Young. As much as I hate to admit it, they made their decision public, when they signed David Carr for 4 more years.

It was a gamble. IF David Carr Could have held up to his end of the bargain. And Mario being the cornerstone for what will be a dominating defense, we'd have a team that would be in contention for years & years.

Vince Young is great & all that, but 16 QBs will win every week(well, not counting the bye weeks, but you know what I mean), and we just need one of those QBs who'll be there more often than not.

Looking back, knowing what we know now, should we have taken Vince??

I think so. Heck, knowing what I knew then, we should have taken Vince.

But us taking Mario is really us choosing him over D'Brickshaw, Reggie Bush, or AJ Hawk.

We chose David over Vince, Mario over Reggie.

VY > Mario. The Texans blew it but the Schaub move accompanied with Carr's release and Mario's continued development could put those questions to bed. It looks like Okoye is gonna be a force and maybe can help push Mario along competitively. As long as Schaub does well, the VY v. Mario is a mute question....it is nice seeing RB fail though. He was an arrogant ahole and he needs to grow a pair in order to be a true NFL running back.

Let's say we took Vince, & the rest of our draft went the way it did.

I believe if Vince played like he did last year, we'd have been 10-6. Heck, Sage probably would've started, and Vince never would have seen the field, and we'd still have been 10-6. Our schedule wasn't that tough last year, and we lost a lot of games that a gamer(someone who will do what it takes to win) at the QB position would have helped us blow past the Giants, the Redskins, the Bills, the Jets etc...

Of course with Anthony Weave, Jason Babin, & Travis Johnson providing our pass rush, we would have lost more games than I would've thought. So let's say we finished 8-8, & we get the Titans pick(Michael Griffin), and not Amobi Okoye.

Then of course, we could have used that 2nd round pick(the Schaub pick) on Ryan Kalil, or Samson Steel..

well, I just killed my own argument. We'd still be a better team had we dumped David Last year.

But what's done is done.

BattleRedToro
09-30-2007, 07:34 AM
Right now Vince was the best player to come out of the 2006 draft and its not even that close. He is far from perfect but he just gets it done.


That's your opinion. Personally, I think DeMeco Ryans is better, just to name one. There are others as well.