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gtexan02
09-25-2007, 10:43 AM
Early in the offseason Kubiak told us that Kevin Walter was his #2 guy. A collective *sigh* could be heard around Houston.

Kevin who? The guy they loved so much from Cincinnatti?

He came to us before the 2006 season as someone who Kubiak was very high on. The Bengals seemed to want to keep him, but with the depth they had at WR, really didn't need a #4. We heard he had great hands, ran crisp routes, and had a blue collar work ethic. Someone you could count on week in and week out to produce reliably.

Last year, he was utterly unimpressive. He played in all 16 games, and recorded 17 catches for 160 yards.

This year, I was expecting big things. He didn't do much in the preseason, but Kubiak stuck by him. He wasn't impressive in his first two games, but again, Kubiak stood by him. Despite other guys having more impressive training camps, etc, Walter remained the guy.

I want to trust Kubiak, because I think he's a great coach. So Im curious, why hasn't Walter produced like we've been told to expect? He's not particularly fast, but a solid, big, sure handed WR should make more of an impact than he has so far.

With AJ around, Walter wasn't looked at much and caught only 2 passes. With AJ out, I was expecting him to be the guy. He responded with a 2 catch effort.

So is it Walter? Is it that Schaub isn't looking at him? Is he being focused on by the defense now that AJ is out?



Someone on the receiving corps has to step up this week. Owen Daniels can only do so much as as receiving tight end. AJ probably won't play. Jacoby Jones is out. That leaves the opportunity to Walter, Davis, and Mathis. I dont think Mathis really has what it takes to be a week in week out WR in this league, so Im hoping one of our starters really come out strong. What do you think?

Yankee_In_TX
09-25-2007, 10:46 AM
Keep an eye on the "other" Andre Sunday.

And Mathis - well, this is his chance if he wants to be more than special teams.

tulexan
09-25-2007, 11:05 AM
I don't think he has been too disappointing. He's not dropping balls and you can't make catches if the ball isn't thrown to you. Walter is never going to be a go to receiver. He is going to be that guy who you throw to when you need to get a first down.

eriadoc
09-25-2007, 11:20 AM
I don't think he has been too disappointing. He's not dropping balls and you can't make catches if the ball isn't thrown to you. Walter is never going to be a go to receiver. He is going to be that guy who you throw to when you need to get a first down.

What was our 3rd down conversion % in the first half, when it mattered, on Sunday?

infantrycak
09-25-2007, 11:33 AM
What was our 3rd down conversion % in the first half, when it mattered, on Sunday?

They converted 4 of 7--57% in the first half (with a 5th--71% granted by a Indy penalty). On passing they converted 3, completed short on 1 and had 1 incompletion (last drive of the half). Rushing they were stuffed on 1 and converted 1.

texanskan
09-25-2007, 11:38 AM
Keep an eye on the "other" Andre Sunday.

And Mathis - well, this is his chance if he wants to be more than special teams.

agree, great chance for Mathis. I think I heard Kubs praising Mathis on the job he did when he was in there at WR

eriadoc
09-25-2007, 11:46 AM
They converted 4 of 7--57% in the first half (with a 5th--71% granted by a Indy penalty). On passing they converted 3, completed short on 1 and had 1 incompletion (last drive of the half). Rushing they were stuffed on 1 and converted 1.

That's not bad, actually. If Walter had anything to do with that, then he's doing his job. He also threw a couple nice blocks on Sunday.

I'm not holding my breath for the next Ed McCaffrey, though.

Ole Miss Texan
09-25-2007, 11:55 AM
I can understand the criticism towards Walter. I would love to watch film and see what he's doing each play...if he's not getting catches he must be doing something good like blocking, being an awesome decoy, etc. lol

I will say I trust Kubiak and am blindly following his decisions at this point.

I don't know much about Walter at all but what you've mentioned. It seems as though Kubiak wants to come out and establish the run early and maybe thats why Walter is the #2, he may help in that regard. Same arguement could be used that jacoby would keep the safeties honest though.

so really i dont know. :cool:

Mr teX
09-25-2007, 11:58 AM
Well, he can't catch the ball if it isn't thrown to him & it hasn't been thrown to him much thus far this season. Also as far as his production, Schaub hadn't had a reason to look for him so far this season either. AJ had been open almost every time Schaub looked for him up until this past week when AJ wasn't in the lineup. Only If he had been elevated to be the #1 Wr could i question what he did this past week. I think it's more that Kubes may have gaffed in putting a rookie (albeit talented 1) in as the #1 instead of putting the more experienced guy (A. Davis) in as the no. 1 guy.

amazingandre
09-25-2007, 12:15 PM
haha yes im so pumped for mathis.....i have wanted this guy to play well for some time now....dont know the feelings of this board compared to the other one but i want him to do danm good so we can keep him.....on houstontexans.com lots of guys were callin for his head this offseason and i hated to hear that.....he is really great on st and he can be converted to a real good number 3 IMO....we need to use him aj and jj on the field later this season.....i feel with these three guys we will be hard to stop.....

Chance_C
09-25-2007, 12:20 PM
I like Kevin Walter. He is a hard working, sure handed, good blocking, tough WR.
But, I am a little perplexed with the fact that he is our number 2 judging by the small amount of opportunities he's had. He's really like our number 3, with Owen Daniels being the 2nd option. Anyway, I don't think there is a true WR2 on our team. One thing about KW, he catches the ball. I think he is on the brink of becoming a solid receiver, but I have been thinking that for awhile now. Or, in other words, I don't think we've seen what he's capable of and I don't know why.

eriadoc
09-25-2007, 12:41 PM
Well, he can't catch the ball if it isn't thrown to him & it hasn't been thrown to him much thus far this season. Also as far as his production, Schaub hadn't had a reason to look for him so far this season either. AJ had been open almost every time Schaub looked for him up until this past week when AJ wasn't in the lineup. Only If he had been elevated to be the #1 Wr could i question what he did this past week. I think it's more that Kubes may have gaffed in putting a rookie (albeit talented 1) in as the #1 instead of putting the more experienced guy (A. Davis) in as the no. 1 guy.

Is he doing his job to get open? I can't imagine the double teams giving him that many problems.

We can't see team film, so we have no idea whether he's open and just not being targeted, or what. At the end of the day, he has to produce some tangible results. I trust in Kubiak's decision at this point, because Kubiak has shown that he'll cut a player who isn't performing.

disaacks3
09-25-2007, 01:11 PM
That's kinda the Million-$ question... was A. Davis catching balls on Sunday because of Walter acting as a distraction, or was it simply because of separation, better routes, etc?

The Pencil Neck
09-25-2007, 01:34 PM
That's kinda the Million-$ question... was A. Davis catching balls on Sunday because of Walter acting as a distraction, or was it simply because of separation, better routes, etc?

I think this is the deal.

Walter works hard and if you get the ball to him, he's pretty sure handed. But I think he doesn't get much separation and so doesn't get targetted as often. I was hoping that he wasn't getting targetted because of Andre just being open more often but I'm worried that's not the case.

OTOH, Andre Davis didn't have a lot of separation on that long ball that Schaub threw to him. But he made a great play on that ball.

Mr teX
09-25-2007, 01:47 PM
this is my question as well. whenever the ball is thrown his way he's a very sure-handed reciever. it does seem that a reciever of his stature and recieving ability would be targeted more.

of course andre johnson is going to overshadow most, if not all, recievers in this league right now. aj is the primary option and no one questions that. so by that statement i assume that if aj is open, aj gets the ball. this could very well be taking attempts at walter away regardless if he's open or not, he's just not getting the look because an open aj is a threat anywhere on the field. but to be fair, walter isn't the fastest guy around-so maybe at times he has trouble creating separation. but his route running, ball catching, and blocking skills are there (especially the blocking, a downfield block can be just as important as a block at the line...you just don't see them as much for obvious reasons)

by the same token, a pass catching tight end in our system is valuable and with owen daniels being just that is looked at by many as the #2 reciever. add on to that jacoby jones, who is budding into something special as that reggie-bush-do-a-little-bit-of-everything-except-i-hate-reggie-bush-i'm-only-using-him-as-an-example type playmaker. add on to that ahman green has excellent recieving skills as the running back as well. hell, vonta leach is getting balls thrown at him too. my point is that the ball could go in so many directions on this offense, and it's very easy to overlook walter but having him is a plus in my head.

he's also a contributor to the special teams, as we witnessed against the panthers.

and really, if he goes out and does exactly what kubiak tells him to do-then kubiak is going to see him as a good player...regardless of whether he put up numbers to satisfy sports announcers and surface type fans.

You would assume correct. If your No. 1 is open, you get him the ball, period. In this system as in most, the number 2 guy is just a guy used to move the chains & occassionally hit deep if they aren't respecting him enough; the TE is just a bonus. I've never heard of Palmer going away from Johnson if he wasn't open. Ditto for manning & harrison; that is unless a wide open TD isn't available.

So far Schaub has been able to get AJ the ball b/c he's open & he's the guy. I don't think that it's b/c Walter's not getting open etc. etc.. If you look @ last weeks' 2nd Int, the guy he was throwing to was Walter & Walter had his guy beat pretty bad. The same is true in the KC game when Walter, again had his guy beat, the KC FS just made a great play.

It looks as if Schaub is just missing him either b/c of timing issues or he's going thru his progressions a tad bit slow. With time they'll get it together though.

badboy
09-25-2007, 02:35 PM
I am not a big fan of Walter but having said that he does catch most of what comes his way. His avg/catch is down 1 yard this season but gets almost a first down every catch. IMO, he is another option that we definitely need as this year is rounding out like last season with injuries. Others such as JJ, Mathis and Andre Davis come with more speed but I look at Walter as a light weight tight end that has sure hands and seldom fumbles. With AJ stretching field, it is good to have sure hands in OD, Green, Putzier and Walter in the five to 20 yard area of the field.