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fritz145
09-24-2007, 05:15 PM
We debate the topic in the Houston Press.

John Royal's take:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/2007/09/texanscolts_from_the_stands.php

and my rebuttal:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/2007/09/same_old_texans_jason_friedman.php

as always, feel free to let us hear your honest thoughts, opinions and criticisms.

Thanks for reading!

hadaad
09-24-2007, 05:28 PM
We debate the topic in the Houston Press.

John Royal's take:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/2007/09/texanscolts_from_the_stands.php

and my rebuttal:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/2007/09/same_old_texans_jason_friedman.php

as always, feel free to let us hear your honest thoughts, opinions and criticisms.

Thanks for reading!

My thinking is that the one was too critical and the other was too positive but I'm sure that's all for effect.

My thoughts are these: Gary Kubiak called an okay game but:
1) challenging that interception was moronic. What team that's behind doesn't need its timeouts?
2) how do you go for the gutless wimp approach and run the clock out WHEN YOU START ON YOUR OWN 40?
3) what in the world was with the lackadaisical sauntering 7+ minute drive? I mean, take what the defense gives you but HURRY UP about it.

Kubiak was right to take some of the blame but it didn't seem that he was addressing the things I think he's really responsible for. Which either means that he's evading his true responsibility or I have no idea what I'm talking about. You be the judge.

fritz145
09-24-2007, 05:35 PM
agree with all of your points. There's no question the Texans played a far less than stellar game; and the same holds true for the coaching staff as well.

That being said, it's all the more remarkable that the Texans even had a chance to pull that game out. They played poorly at times, coached poorly at times, suffered significant injuries and still had a shot.

To me, that's a clear indication that, slowly but surely, the ship is headed in the right direction.

hadaad
09-24-2007, 05:37 PM
I agree that the Texans look way better than they ever have, even in losing (except the 7-9 season against the Patriots - that was the best loss I ever saw, or the least bad anyway). I just think that we let one get away from us that we could have had and I'm finding it hard to think good things about Kubiak when he wimps out. Can't handle that.

fritz145
09-24-2007, 05:40 PM
no doubt. I suspect all Texans fans are still (understandably) uber-sensitive to wimpy play calling after suffering through the Capers era.

Porky
09-24-2007, 06:19 PM
My thinking is that the one was too critical and the other was too positive but I'm sure that's all for effect.

My thoughts are these: Gary Kubiak called an okay game but:
1) challenging that interception was moronic. What team that's behind doesn't need its timeouts?
2) how do you go for the gutless wimp approach and run the clock out WHEN YOU START ON YOUR OWN 40?
3) what in the world was with the lackadaisical sauntering 7+ minute drive? I mean, take what the defense gives you but HURRY UP about it.

Kubiak was right to take some of the blame but it didn't seem that he was addressing the things I think he's really responsible for. Which either means that he's evading his true responsibility or I have no idea what I'm talking about. You be the judge.

Totally agree with your points. Kubiak's clock management was awful. Challenging on that interception reeked of a desperation move which had about a 1% chance of being overturned. They also were way too lackadiascal on the last TD drive they had. If they were going to milk the clock that way, then the best approach would have been an onsides kick.

In short, lots of coaching issues yesterday, more than at any time in the Kubiak era. Sort of reminded me of the Capers clueless era. Enough of that crap already. I just hope he learns from it, because it was truly a bad day for Kubes, worst of his young administration, and he has to get much, much better than that crapola.

UberDork
09-24-2007, 06:42 PM
Just don't forget that many offensive weapons went down. There are probably some significant challenges to play calling when you get into the situation we were in, and we were able to score. That in itself is impressive. If we had hurried things more, scoring would have been much less likely in my opinion.

GP
09-24-2007, 07:14 PM
I have to admit that I was sitting on my couch, thinking that Dom had somehow wrassled control of the playcalling throughout the whole game:

1. HB dives that went nowhere
2. Bad clock management and overly-conservative playcalling
3. Dunta doing all the "heavy lifting" on defense
4. Challenging the call when the timeout was needed more
5. The big desperation pass to Andre Davis ala David and AJ

Kubiak went for it on fourth down, which Dom would have punted. So I give him props for going for it.

Other than that, I can honestly say that the whole game from start to finish appeared to be disjointed and "in a fog" for our team.

Having said that, I think we win the next two games and end up 4-1...which is actually a pretty nice thought after what we've been through for the past five years with this team. Therefore, losing this game to the Colts is going to sting a lot less in about two weeks.

My major concern right now is Andre Johnson and Ahman Green. AJ can recover, IMO, but I am very very very worried that Ahman is a tweak away from being done. And it won't be pretty (for us) if that is the case.

(Sigh) we have had toooo many holes to fill, it's like swiss cheese--We need a running back more than ever, IMO. The old "Plug a 4th round running back into the Denver system" theory is retarded. Think what Marshawn Lynch or someone like him, a guy who is like him and will be available in the mid-first round next April, will do on this team.

Any wagers on if Ahman is serviceable after this year? I'd say "No" right now, as it stands. Our backfield is in serious danger, IMO. And without a backfield of "some" significance, we're doomed. Ahman provides that un-teachable talent, the one that made him pause for a split-second and score the rushing TD last week when other backs would have had less patience and just run right into the line and perhaps pick up 2-3 yards.

We have our QB. I like our WRs, TEs, and FBs. And our Oline and Dline is only a minor move or two from being really good. Our LBs are fairly solid.

But it's pretty obvious that the Dbacks and Rbacks need a lot of early attention in the draft for perhaps the next 2-3 years.

Marcus
09-24-2007, 07:16 PM
I'm going to be polite for a change, and just say that I find the overall tone of this thread to be a little bit unreasonable.

It's one thing to second guess a coach's playcalling, given the environment where you're playing without most of your key players, and you still hold the Colts to less than a touchdown.

But to call him a wimp, or compare him to Capers is downright classless, not to mention clueless.

Sadly, I've come to expect that this type of BS will continue whenever they lose.

Wolf
09-24-2007, 07:27 PM
http://www.panthershuddle.com/newforum/images/smilies/bricks.gif

what it felt like on the first link

hal698
09-24-2007, 07:46 PM
Please give it a rest. You are expecting a Superbowl team in two years. They have come a long way in a short amount of time. When you compare Bill Belecek and how long it took him, and you look at what Kubiak and staff have done in just two, The Texans are way ahead of the game.:texflag:

Porky
09-24-2007, 09:52 PM
I'm going to be polite for a change, and just say that I find the overall tone of this thread to be a little bit unreasonable.

It's one thing to second guess a coach's playcalling, given the environment where you're playing without most of your key players, and you still hold the Colts to less than a touchdown.

But to call him a wimp, or compare him to Capers is downright classless, not to mention clueless.

Sadly, I've come to expect that this type of BS will continue whenever they lose.

Critiquing the coaching staff is perfectly reasonable. Since when did Kubiak become beyond reproach or second guessing? Furthermore, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and has web toes, it's probably a duck.

Pantherstang84
09-24-2007, 10:02 PM
Critiquing the coaching staff is perfectly reasonable. Since when did Kubiak become beyond reproach or second guessing? Furthermore, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and has web toes, it's probably a duck.

Here is something interesting. Dungy's record when he was starting out until now. My point? This is Kube's second year as a head coach people. I'm not trying to defend his game plan yesterday. Just trying to add a little perspective. So he had a bad game yesterday. It happens. I think he learned a few lessons yesterday from the way he talked on 610 today. The game yesterday equals 1/16th of a NFL football season. Losing a game like that does hurt, but it's not the end of the world.

Tony Dungy Record (http://www.databasefootball.com/coaches/coachpage.htm?coachid=DUNGYTON01)

infantrycak
09-24-2007, 10:16 PM
2) how do you go for the gutless wimp approach and run the clock out WHEN YOU START ON YOUR OWN 40?

That was savvy not gutless. Make it on 2nd down and 2--go for the throat. Staring at 3rd down and 3 you burn some time so you don't punt to Manning with 1:15 and three time outs so he goes for the throat. Make the first down with 40 seconds left was plenty of time to take several shots and not worry about giving the ball to Manning.

Vinny
09-24-2007, 10:18 PM
That was savvy not gutless. Make it on 2nd down and 2--go for the throat. Staring at 3rd down and 3 you burn some time so you don't punt to Manning with 1:15 and three time outs so he goes for the throat. Make the first down with 40 seconds left was plenty of time to take several shots and not worry about giving the ball to Manning.

perhaps, and I understand the logic behind it but you are at midfield and have nearly 2 mins left....I thought we threw away a possession there myself.

FirstTexansFan
09-24-2007, 10:21 PM
We all have a right to criticize anything we please. But what does that get us? I don't own the team, I'm not the general manager, so basically I'm a fan on a message board who's opinion doesn't mean squat. I understand the pessimism, it's warranted considering all the pain we've been through for the last five years. But lets get a grip on reality. I don't think comparisons of this coaching staff and front office to the past group of doofus's is justified. But hey, like you, it's only my opinion...it don't mean squat :)

Vinny
09-24-2007, 10:22 PM
We all have a right to criticize anything we please. But what does that get us? I don't own the team, I'm not the general manager, so basically I'm a fan on a message board who's opinion doesn't mean squat. I understand the pessimism, it's warranted considering all the pain we've been through for the last five years. But lets get a grip on reality. I don't think comparisons of this coaching staff and front office to the past group of doofus's is justified. But hey, like you, it's only my opinion...it don't mean squat :)
well, some of us get to understand the game better when various people give opinions from various points of view...I really don't come here to find a pep rally myself.

FirstTexansFan
09-24-2007, 10:24 PM
So you think it's justifiable to call this coach and front office Capers and Casserly? What's that got to do with a pep rally Vinny? :)

Texans_Chick
09-24-2007, 10:27 PM
Totally agree with your points. Kubiak's clock management was awful. Challenging on that interception reeked of a desperation move which had about a 1% chance of being overturned. They also were way too lackadiascal on the last TD drive they had. If they were going to milk the clock that way, then the best approach would have been an onsides kick.

In short, lots of coaching issues yesterday, more than at any time in the Kubiak era. Sort of reminded me of the Capers clueless era. Enough of that crap already. I just hope he learns from it, because it was truly a bad day for Kubes, worst of his young administration, and he has to get much, much better than that crapola.

Check out the press conference (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3676):

“I think we played with urgency in that drive. We were going as fast as we could. We made a big fourth down play in that situation. We had plenty of time on the clock to still win the football game, so I thought we were moving with a sense of urgency right there."
He's not really explicit about it, but with all the injuries and who was available, I am guessing the quick play calling isn't easy to do with the personnel changes. He's not going to make excuses, but I am guessing that is what happened.

Vinny
09-24-2007, 10:28 PM
So you think it's justifiable to call this coach and front office Capers and Casserly? What's that got to do with a pep rally Vinny? :)
you said you didn't see why people come here and pick apart the decisions made on game day....I just answered why. I was just thinking that if you want to find a nice site that only sings praise to the Texans perhaps you should start a pep rally site like the TOMB.

infantrycak
09-24-2007, 10:33 PM
perhaps, and I understand the logic behind it but you are at midfield and have nearly 2 mins left....I thought we threw away a possession there myself.

I agree we threw away that possession. I just think we did it by failing to get a 1st down after being 2nd and 2. That's critical execution time for the players. There wouldn't have been any slow down if they had picked up the 2 yards instead of being stuffed on 2nd down.

FirstTexansFan
09-24-2007, 10:55 PM
you said you didn't see why people come here and pick apart the decisions made on game day....I just answered why. I was just thinking that if you want to find a nice site that only sings praise to the Texans perhaps you should start a pep rally site like the TOMB.

No where in my posting does it state that....it points out the futility of doing so :) And good idea on a site, but I don't have your patience nor the time to mess with all the negative posters. You can only ban so many people Vinny :)

Hook'er
09-24-2007, 11:01 PM
We are not the "same ol' Texans".:texflag:

hadaad
09-24-2007, 11:01 PM
I'm going to be polite for a change, and just say that I find the overall tone of this thread to be a little bit unreasonable.

It's one thing to second guess a coach's playcalling, given the environment where you're playing without most of your key players, and you still hold the Colts to less than a touchdown.

But to call him a wimp, or compare him to Capers is downright classless, not to mention clueless.

Sadly, I've come to expect that this type of BS will continue whenever they lose.

I'm glad that you disagree. Disagreement leads to good discussion. Regardless, I stand by my judgment of the play-calling and clock management at halftime. If we'd been bold and scored before halftime, even a field goal, that sets a completely different tone.

You call me classless for saying that his Kubiak's play-calling was mincing and fraidy-cat. Well, as a fan, it's my right to comment on things that I disagree with. Or do you think that Kubiak didn't make any mistakes against the Colts?

Of course people are going to complain when we lose. People complain when the Patriots lose. People complain when the Colts lose. So what? I'm not calling for the guy's job,

Pantherstang84
09-24-2007, 11:04 PM
So you think it's justifiable to call this coach and front office Capers and Casserly? What's that got to do with a pep rally Vinny? :)

It's called fickleness FTF it's the first trait of a "can't let go of the past Texans fan."

It's funny. From 9/17 to 9/22 everyone was aboard the hype machine. I think there was a competition to see who could post the most positive press links.

So yesterday the team (including coaches) had a bad game and the Texans lost and now Kubiak is being compared to the C&C era? What a difference 48 hours makes.

Look I'm not faulting anyone for commenting and complaining about the game plan, play calling, defensive secondary performance, Kubiak's attire, cheerleader outfits, BBQ sauce flavor @ Bum's Smokehouse or whatever.

I just think saying Kubiak is similar to Capers in his play calling based on one game is not only silly but down right asinine. I'm pretty sure that any game plan he was following got filed in the trash can once the players starting going to the triage ward. He was trying to play cards in his hand and he misplayed a few. It happens.

Criticize if you want, but please cut the drama queen act.

hadaad
09-24-2007, 11:04 PM
We all have a right to criticize anything we please. But what does that get us? I don't own the team, I'm not the general manager, so basically I'm a fan on a message board who's opinion doesn't mean squat. I understand the pessimism, it's warranted considering all the pain we've been through for the last five years. But lets get a grip on reality. I don't think comparisons of this coaching staff and front office to the past group of doofus's is justified. But hey, like you, it's only my opinion...it don't mean squat :)

No pessimism, here. I was happy with the effort the guys showed. I'm proud of the game they played. There were three or four things that nagged at me, that's all.

BigBull17
09-24-2007, 11:28 PM
Despite poor clock management, we gave them the ball with 3+ minutes and 2 timeouts left. We get a trhee and out, we have a chance to win and not give Peyton a chance to drive.

Marcus
09-25-2007, 01:10 AM
It's called fickleness FTF it's the first trait of a "can't let go of the past Texans fan."

It's funny. From 9/17 to 9/22 everyone was aboard the hype machine. I think there was a competition to see who could post the most positive press links.

So yesterday the team (including coaches) had a bad game and the Texans lost and now Kubiak is being compared to the C&C era? What a difference 48 hours makes.

Look I'm not faulting anyone for commenting and complaining about the game plan, play calling, defensive secondary performance, Kubiak's attire, cheerleader outfits, BBQ sauce flavor @ Bum's Smokehouse or whatever.

I just think saying Kubiak is similar to Capers in his play calling based on one game is not only silly but down right asinine. I'm pretty sure that any game plan he was following got filed in the trash can once the players starting going to the triage ward. He was trying to play cards in his hand and he misplayed a few. It happens.

Criticize if you want, but please cut the drama queen act.

Exactly! I understand the right to criticize and second-guess.

But if you're going to constantly bring up Carr every time Schaub makes a mistake, or bring in Capers every time you question a move that Kubiak makes, or bring them back any time the team loses, no matter what the reason .... that's just dumb.

Just use some original thinking, and critique the current players and coaches on their own merits, for Pete's sake.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2007, 10:54 AM
Despite poor clock management, we gave them the ball with 3+ minutes and 2 timeouts left. We get a trhee and out, we have a chance to win and not give Peyton a chance to drive.

I agree. The possession before halftime was questionable. After hearing Kubiak explain the situation several times, I partially agree with what he tried to do. He wanted to run the ball on 2nd down to achieve the first down. Normally I would agree with this because you're keeping the clock running while driving for the final score of the half. Leaving no time on the clock for Manning. BUT, relying on Cook to get the first down is kind of questionable.

The possession at the end of the game was the correct thing to do IMO. If the D holds the Colts to a 3 and out, we get the ball back. How many other teams in the league would've thrown the ball on 2nd and 9 at their own 28 with 2:41 on the clock? Well, I guess when you've got Petey giving Harrison a 15 yard cushion, I'd throw it too.:specnatz:

infantrycak
09-25-2007, 11:05 AM
If the D holds the Colts to a 3 and out, we get the ball back. How many other teams in the league would've thrown the ball on 2nd and 9 at their own 28 with 2:41 on the clock? Well, I guess when you've got Petey giving Harrison a 15 yard cushion, I'd throw it too.:specnatz:

Something being lost in the cries of cowardice is the confidence Kubiak placed in his D by not onside kicking--confidence to stop one of the top 2 QB's in the league on one of the top O's in the league. That took some stones rather than cowardice. Plus, it's better to nut up (and in so doing show confidence in the D) rather than rely on luck.

Did you know that nearly 20 percent of all onside kicks last year were successful? It's true -- nine of the 46 attempts worked!

Link (http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2004/04/20/1/)

Porky
09-25-2007, 11:08 AM
As for me, I can't speak for anyone else. I just call it like I see it. If something I see reminds me of an earlier player or coach, I will say so. In that game, Kubiak reminded me of Capers. So be it. I'm not saying that his whole regime is like that, simply saying that game reminded me of the chicken little crap I thought we got rid of when we cleaned house. I also have had many positive things to say about Kubiak overall. I think he was, and is the right choice and has done a great job so far. But when I see something I don't agree with, I'll comment. He isn't beyond critism.

My manager at my job really likes me, and comments frequently on the job I am doing. But guess what, I screwed up last Tuesday, and I got my butt chewed out. I didn't have a good day, and I deserved that critism. Just because I am viewed favorably overall doesn't mean I am immune from critique.

If it's a cheerleader you want, go elsewhere. To me, this site is all about real anaylsis and critique, whether that be the good, the bad, or the ugly. I maintain that on Sunday, Kubiak had not just a so-so day, but a truly very poor day of in-game decision making. So sue me.

Pantherstang84
09-25-2007, 11:08 AM
Something being lost in the cries of cowardice is the confidence Kubiak placed in his D by not onside kicking--confidence to stop one of the top 2 QB's in the league on one of the top O's in the league. That took some stones rather than cowardice. Better to nut up rather than rely on luck.



Link (http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2004/04/20/1/)

I agree. It shows just how far this team has really come.

Do you think Kubes would have made the same decision last year? Gutsy call.

It just didn't work and now he is being called out for it.

Porky
09-25-2007, 11:12 AM
Check out the press conference (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3676):


He's not really explicit about it, but with all the injuries and who was available, I am guessing the quick play calling isn't easy to do with the personnel changes. He's not going to make excuses, but I am guessing that is what happened.


We were going as fast as we could? You don't honestly buy that excuse do you? They huddled up, and never even ran a hurry up offense. Come on Gary. Admit you screwed up, take it like a man, learn from it, and move on. But to say they were going as fast as they could insults my intelligence. Does he think this is a city full of ignorant imbeciles? :cool:

HOU-TEX
09-25-2007, 11:16 AM
Something being lost in the cries of cowardice is the confidence Kubiak placed in his D by not onside kicking--confidence to stop one of the top 2 QB's in the league on one of the top O's in the league. That took some stones rather than cowardice. Plus, it's better to nut up (and in so doing show confidence in the D) rather than rely on luck.



Link (http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2004/04/20/1/)

I totally agree with the choice he made. IIRC, the last 4 possessions for the Colts were punt, FG, FG, punt. So our D was looking pretty good late in the game.

It also took some stones for Manning to basically put the game away with the 2nd and 9 pass.

I truely believe we score if the D holds them to 3 and out. Arrgh! :fans:

Porky
09-25-2007, 11:35 AM
I totally agree with the choice he made. IIRC, the last 4 possessions for the Colts were punt, FG, FG, punt. So our D was looking pretty good late in the game.

It also took some stones for Manning to basically put the game away with the 2nd and 9 pass.

I truely believe we score if the D holds them to 3 and out. Arrgh! :fans:

How many of those possessions were 3 and out?

real
09-25-2007, 11:47 AM
Maybe Kubiak was going about it the best way he knew how, considering the resources he had.

It's easy to say go for a big play, but when the defense is expecting it and your two 'biggest play' recievers are MIA, it's kinda hard.

The Colts defense is built to be effective against big plays. They want to jump out ahead and make you have to pass deep so they can send Freeney and Mathis off the end and cause mistakes.

Kubes stayed with the game plan, and tried to give his team it's best shot. Sometimes you just have to play consistent and keep doing the things that are working and hope things go your way. We were clearly the lesser talented team, but I think Kubes put us in a situation that gave us our best shot considering what he had to work with.

Thorn
09-25-2007, 11:58 AM
We start out by winning our first two games of the year, and then lose to the best team in the NFL by 6 points with some of our best offensive talent injured.

No, this is not the same old Texans. It is indeed a new team with a new outlook on football and I can't wait to see us beat the crap out of Atlanta this coming weekend.

At which point we'll be 3-1. Count on it.

powerfuldragon
09-25-2007, 12:13 PM
that was like good cop bad cop.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2007, 12:18 PM
How many of those possessions were 3 and out?

One in the third. The one where JJ was injured on the PR.

Indianapolis Colts at 06:14
1-10-IND 26 (6:14) 29-J.Addai right guard to IND 29 for 3 yards (56-M.Greenwood).
2-7-IND 29 (5:43) 18-P.Manning pass incomplete short left to 87-R.Wayne (23-D.Robinson).
3-7-IND 29 (5:33) (Shotgun) 18-P.Manning pass incomplete short right to 44-D.Clark.
4-7-IND 29 (5:26) 17-H.Smith punts 63 yards to HOU 8, Center-48-J.Snow. 12-J.Jones ran ob at IND 18 for 74 yards (17-H.Smith). (Punt hang time 3.8 seconds.) HOU's 12 Jones injured on the return and taken for x-rays.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29229&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG3

FirstTexansFan
09-25-2007, 01:07 PM
No pessimism, here. I was happy with the effort the guys showed. I'm proud of the game they played. There were three or four things that nagged at me, that's all.

And we'd agree on those same things. I'm not going to defend what I felt was a blown opportunity before the end of the 1st half. My issue was the comparison to the former group of mullets we had at Coach and in the FO. I don't even know if you made the comment now...that was yesterday and I'm trying to remember what I had for breakfast :)

dalemurphy
09-25-2007, 01:12 PM
My thinking is that the one was too critical and the other was too positive but I'm sure that's all for effect.

My thoughts are these: Gary Kubiak called an okay game but:
1) challenging that interception was moronic. What team that's behind doesn't need its timeouts?
2) how do you go for the gutless wimp approach and run the clock out WHEN YOU START ON YOUR OWN 40?
3) what in the world was with the lackadaisical sauntering 7+ minute drive? I mean, take what the defense gives you but HURRY UP about it.

Kubiak was right to take some of the blame but it didn't seem that he was addressing the things I think he's really responsible for. Which either means that he's evading his true responsibility or I have no idea what I'm talking about. You be the judge.

1. Challenging the interception wasn't moronic. It was close and it was a huge play. The replay system is moronic!

2. If you listen to Kubiak's explanation then you would understand why they approached that 3rd down like they did. If they were successful on 2nd down, he would've been agressive. And, if they'd converted on 3rd down they would get agressive again. He didn't want to leave time for another Peyton led drive before halftime.

3. The only problem with the last drive was the timeout taken on 1st and goal... I'm not sure why that was done but it was a mistake.

Porky
09-25-2007, 01:15 PM
One in the third. The one where JJ was injured on the PR.



http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29229&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG3

Right. The Colts had 9 possessions up to that point, and in one of those 9 instances, they held them to a 3 and out. That is a success rate of roughly 12%. So, you all think there is a less than 12% chance of recovering an onside kick? Think again -

Did you know that nearly 23 percent of all onside kicks in 2004 were successful? It's true -- 12 of the 52 attempts worked! (source) (http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2005/04/18/2/)

I can try to find other years as well. Overall, it's somewhere between 20-25%over the long haul.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2007, 02:47 PM
Right. The Colts had 9 possessions up to that point, and in one of those 9 instances, they held them to a 3 and out. That is a success rate of roughly 12%. So, you all think there is a less than 12% chance of recovering an onside kick? Think again -

Did you know that nearly 23 percent of all onside kicks in 2004 were successful? It's true -- 12 of the 52 attempts worked! (source) (http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2005/04/18/2/)

I can try to find other years as well. Overall, it's somewhere between 20-25%over the long haul.

I understand your point and I'm not arguing that point. I agree with what Kubiak did. I wouldn't have been bent out of shape if he'd decided to do an onsides kick either.

I guess my whole point is it wouldn't have been a bad call either way he decided to go.:cool:

real
09-25-2007, 02:54 PM
This is football.

A head coach is not going through percentages in his head when he's standing on the sideline coaching a game.


But this hindsight game is fun.

infantrycak
09-25-2007, 03:02 PM
This is football.

A head coach is not going through percentages in his head when he's standing on the sideline coaching a game.


But this hindsight game is fun.

Percentages literally--probably not. But every head coach in the league knows on sides kicks are a very low percentage shot.

real
09-25-2007, 03:14 PM
Percentages literally--probably not. But every head coach in the league knows on sides kicks are a very low percentage shot.

That is true, but I don't think it's about what has or hasn't been successful.

I think when your are in the moment it's more about what gives me the best chance to win this game right now; not, this hasn't been that successful for other teams so I won't try it.

In that moment, Kubiak probably felt he had a better chance to win by putting his defense out there than he did about trying to onside kick it.

Had our defense been playing terrible the last few series, he probably would have gone for the onside kick. It would be totally illogical to ask a defense, who you have no faith in, to stop a Peyton Manning led offense.

It's easy to second guess decisions because if it doesn't work out, there will always be someone saying it was a bad choice. Had he kicked the onside, we don't recover and the Colts get a field goal to ice the game--there would have been people coming out saying he should have had more faith in the defense.

I personally liked how Kubiak called the game, but I just think that he didnt have enough horses to get the cart up the hill.

Porky
09-25-2007, 03:43 PM
Percentages literally--probably not. But every head coach in the league knows on sides kicks are a very low percentage shot.

So, an onsides kicks that has at least a 1 in 5 shot of working is very low percentage, but stopping the best offense in the league on 3 downs when you had a 1 for 9 day in that catagory is not?

Double Barrel
09-25-2007, 04:28 PM
I'm going to be polite for a change, and just say that I find the overall tone of this thread to be a little bit unreasonable.

It's one thing to second guess a coach's playcalling, given the environment where you're playing without most of your key players, and you still hold the Colts to less than a touchdown.

But to call him a wimp, or compare him to Capers is downright classless, not to mention clueless.

Sadly, I've come to expect that this type of BS will continue whenever they lose.

Ouch...

We're 2-1, folks. Capers never won the first two games of the season.

We lost to the Colts. No excuses, but they tend to make most teams look bad. Capers never beat the Colts as Texans HC. Kubiak accomplished that in his first season.

What I take from this game is that our head coach - yes, Kubiak - has this team fighting and clawing until the clock reaches 0:00. We never, ever had that attitude in four seasons of Capers. Matter-of-fact, the team would quit most games like this one (and Carolina, for that matter).

Do I agree with every call? Heck no. I thought Kubiak's lack of confidence in the two minute warning at the end of the first half was disheartening. He had his reasons, though, and it was not about 'keeping it close' or any other Capersism.

I know there is a lot of emotional baggage in posts the day after a loss, especially when Texans fans are drinking battle red koolaide by the gallon. But there is no need to whip out the pink soap. Everything is going to be alright, and Kubiak is learning from games like this one.

HJam72
09-25-2007, 04:58 PM
This is football.

A head coach is not going through percentages in his head when he's standing on the sideline coaching a game.


But this hindsight game is fun.

Right, none of them do; but, they should.

Frankly, a calculator for a few simple division problems would be a good idea--like 1 divided by 9, which is actually closer to 11% than 12.