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View Full Version : It's time to make Faggins a back up


Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 02:19 PM
Why not go ahead and groom Bennett, Faggins is clearly not a NFL caliber #2 CB

Its time to see what Fred can do when the bullets are flying.

Faggins has given up like 5 TDs the past 2 games

Every minute he is out there is another minute waisted on the future.

bah007
09-23-2007, 02:21 PM
Faggins is obviously just a nickel back, but this team has no #2 option & he is the best choice.

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2007, 02:28 PM
Why not go ahead and groom Bennett, Faggins is clearly not a NFL caliber #2 CB

Its time to see what Fred can do when the bullets are flying.

Faggins has given up like 5 TDs the past 2 games

Every minute he is out there is another minute waisted on the future.

We really need a true #2 CB and they are grooming Freddy B. to hopefully take that over. But Bennett is no where near ready to take that role over right now....he has outplayed the 4th rd pick selection but he is still young and will get burned.

In Faggins defense he is guarding a top 5 WR with the #1 QB throwing to him....but then again he doesn't play too well against lesser matchups either.

WaywardTexanFan
09-23-2007, 02:31 PM
In Faggins defense he is guarding a top 5 WR with the #1 QB throwing to him....but then again he doesn't play too well against lesser matchups either.

Faggins is getting burned everytime the ball is snapped. He is just about useless at this point, why not start grooming Fred now? Trial by fire!

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 02:32 PM
Actually, I greatly disagree........how is Bennett "not ready"

Explain to me how Bennett could possibly do any worse than Faggins. Faggins is a sixth round pick that is getting PICKED on. He has been exposed on film for the world to see.

Right now Fred Bennett is a upgrade.....atleast he has size and more speed going for him.

TheIronDuke
09-23-2007, 02:32 PM
I don't know why Jamar Fletcher isn't our #2, he's at least made a play on defense this year.

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 02:52 PM
We really need a true #2 CB and they are grooming Freddy B. to hopefully take that over. But Bennett is no where near ready to take that role over right now....he has outplayed the 4th rd pick selection but he is still young and will get burned.

In Faggins defense he is guarding a top 5 WR with the #1 QB throwing to him....but then again he doesn't play too well against lesser matchups either.

You still want to try to make a argument for Faggins........just cost us a chance to make a comeback with another one of his patent 20 yard cussions.

bah007
09-23-2007, 02:54 PM
You still want to try to make a argument for Faggins........just cost us a chance to make a comeback with another one of his patent 20 yard cussions.

Maybe he is being told by the coaches to give that big cushion so he doesnt get beat deep again.

Its not that unusual.

Either way, he killing us on 3rd down.

GuerillaBlack
09-23-2007, 02:55 PM
I want Freddy B. out there. I think he could do much better than Faggins is. Faggins is leaving to much space between him and any WR and he is getting burned on the long balls.

J-Russ
09-23-2007, 03:05 PM
Actually, I greatly disagree........how is Bennett "not ready"

Explain to me how Bennett could possibly do any worse than Faggins. Faggins is a sixth round pick that is getting PICKED on. He has been exposed on film for the world to see.

Right now Fred Bennett is a upgrade.....atleast he has size and more speed going for him.

Explain to me how hes an upgrade, explain how YOU think he can do better then Faggins. Explain to me what games you watch him played that makes you believe he can contribute right now. Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

Hervoyel
09-23-2007, 03:12 PM
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 03:13 PM
Explain to me how hes an upgrade, explain how YOU think he can do better then Faggins. Explain to me what games you watch him played to think hes actually ready to play. Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

This is quite easy

Fred Bennet.........has wait for it.........wait for it........UPSIDE AND POTENTIAL!!!

Faggins has maxed out on his potenial........he is NEVER GOING TO GET BETTER and at his age, his skills (I say that losely) is only going to erode.

Did anybody see Dunta play before we threw him out there........no.

Fred Bennet has all the tools to be a very good corner in this league, he has things you can't teach sizE, speed, and ball skills, when given time he's played better than Faggins.

What the heck are you afraid of............are you afraid Bennet is going to give up multiple TDs and play soft against the run? I hate to break this to you, but we are getting that RIGHT NOW!

Football is also about developing players, especially when those young players on the bench can't possibly do any worst than the starter thats already out there.

Bennet played in the SEC, he has played against top elite opposition in college and one thing I've noticed about SEC players........they tend to do quite well at the next level.

P.S. please don't ask me if I know what I'm talking about. I've seen what happens when you hang on to lame ducks and don't develop talent.......you end up being the 2007 Astros

The Colts had no problem going with youth at the CB positions and now they are see the benefits.

Marcus
09-23-2007, 03:22 PM
Right now Fred Bennett is a upgrade.....atleast he has size and more speed going for him.

You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.

J-Russ
09-23-2007, 03:23 PM
Do you think Kubiak is stupid, he knows what he doing. If he thinks Bennet can do better he'll put him in. But guess what, hes 4th CB. That means 3 other CB are BETTER then him. Yea he got upside, but we're trying to win now and if Kubiak thinks Faggins is the 2nd best CB on the team, then I trust him judgement. How many times have you seen Bennet out on the field,on defense,when he was activated for the game? I can honestly say I have not seen him out there one time. Maybe thats because Kubiak knows he'll do worse then the other CB. Gee, you haven't thought of that did ya?

And if you don't think any other CB can do worse then Faggins, then I guess you forgot about P-burnt already. How do you know Bennet is not another P-Burnt?

TheIronDuke
09-23-2007, 03:23 PM
Isn't Bennett injured anyways?

Either way, I'd feel much more confidant in a former 1st rd draft pick (Fletcher) out there than Petey at this point.

On the plus side, not too many teams have 2 great receivers so we'll be okay as long as we don't face those teams.

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 03:27 PM
You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.

My argument is he can't do worse, Faggins is already busting coverage, Faggins is already getting burnt left and right. Faggins has been a starter for like 4 years now and hasn't improved.

We could be getting burned with another CB out there that can learn on the fly and improve. Why waste snaps with a CB thats never going to improve, especailly when every opposing team that we face is going to be having comedy hour film sessions watching him on tape.

I can't believe people are still wanting to stick by him.

TexansSeminole
09-23-2007, 03:28 PM
I think that Fletcher should get the start over Faggins. Fletcher seems to make alot of plays when he is in the game. We don't have the luxury of playing against mediocre QBs and Faggins is killing us when we play these teams with dangerous passing attacks. Peyton rarely threw at D-Rob but went to Faggins side almost everytime. Seeing Faggins give Steve Smith like 10 yards on the goal line (twice) tells me he doesn't have the recovery speed. These teams are too smart for that.

Marcus it doesn't matter if the guy knows what he is doing if he can't do it. Faggins may know what coverage he is supposed to be in but he gets beat anyway...who the hell cares how much he knows if he sucks. I'm sorry it's just so obvious.

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2007, 03:29 PM
We shall see how the coaches handle this.

Right now Faggins > Bennett.

Sure Faggins gave up A LOT of catches today. I'm not argueing he's a good CB #2, I'm arguing he is better than Bennett is right now.

I'd like to see someone new there just as much as you, but I'm more willing to let them develop Bennett. If I hear you correctly, your saying Bennett has more upside, which I completely agree with. Sometimes players develop better if they aren't thrown into a starting role right away. Sometimes players develop better by being a back up.

I understand your point that Bennett couldn't be any worse than Faggins. Faggins gave up some big catches, and some 1st downs that hurt us. he didn't give up any TD's though. We're all 'guessing' here, but I'd guess if Bennett were covering Harrison the whole day, he would have given up a TD.

At least we were in the game untill the end.. I hope Bennett can come in and get some playing time and prove to us he's ready to start.

scratch that...fletcher did have a bad break on the ball for Addai's 2nd TD run. lol but I still think we need to develop Bennett more before he actually starts for us. I'd rather start Fletcher at this point too :)

bah007
09-23-2007, 03:30 PM
My argument is he can't do worse, Faggins is already busting coverage, Faggins is already getting burnt left and right. Faggins has been a starter for like 4 years now and hasn't improved.

We could be getting burned with another CB out there that can learn on the fly and improve. Why waste snaps with a CB thats never going to improve, especailly when every opposing team that we face is going to be having comedy hour film sessions watching him on tape.

I can't believe people are still wanting to stick by him.

Thats not true.

Faggins has improved every year.

He's just still not very good.

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 03:34 PM
You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.

Thats not true.

Faggins has improved every year.

He's just still not very good.

Yeah, because he certainly stepped up his game this year........Kudos to him only holding Steve Smith to 2tds and a hundred yards. If it wasn't for the masterful play of Faggins Smith would of easily went off for 5 TDs

Faggins has been the same CB for the past 3 years and he's even worse this year.

HoustonFrog
09-23-2007, 03:39 PM
Faggins is one of those guys that falls under "serviceable." They throw him out there, tell him not to get beat deep and he gives a 20 yrd cushion and teams just pick up 10 a pop on his side. I can basically say he plays football and that is almost a reach. We want to win now but I'm not sure if you don't switch some series up with Bennett and give him the same instructions and see if he can learn and be better.

rollinstone18
09-23-2007, 03:40 PM
Faggins is awful. I'd start Bennett just as a means to prepare for our first round pick next year. If Bennett passes the test, good. If not we know the most pressing need from a defensive standpoint.

Marcus
09-23-2007, 03:41 PM
I can't believe people are still wanting to stick by him.

It's not a question of me 'sticking by him'.

Go back and re-read my post.

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 03:46 PM
It's not a question of me 'sticking by him'.

Go back and re-read my post.

Fine, if you want to go with Fletcher, thats fine with me.

Frankly I don't care who we throw out there, as long as it's not Faggins. That experiment is over as far as I'm concerned.

Scooter
09-23-2007, 04:02 PM
i've been sticking up for faggins for a long time now, and frankly i'm ready for a change. he's stinking it up in coverage, he's very hesitant, and needs to be sat out until he steps it up. i'm aware that covering steve smith & marvin harrison is near impossible for anyone, but he's looked horrible thus far.

beerlover
09-23-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm sure CB is going to be a top priority for the Texans in the 08 draft-

drewmar74
09-23-2007, 04:10 PM
They throw him out there, tell him not to get beat deep and he gives a 20 yrd cushion and teams just pick up 10 a pop on his side.

Amen. I was getting physically ill watching that over and over again during the game. No jam at the los, just play with a big arse cushion, and get eaten up for 10-15 per pass attempt.

Is there no one who looks better in practice, etc., than Petey? Surely Kubiak & Co. will have to do something because this is pitiful.

Petey Faggins - you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

TheIronDuke
09-23-2007, 04:12 PM
Isn't Von Hutchins a former CB as well? I know we converted him to safety but maybe we can re-convert him?

Whatever Kubiak decides, I hope that Petey's not manned up on an elite receiver ever again. For the next few weeks we don't have anything to worry about in regards to covering elite receivers, but something needs to be done about the #2 CB obviously.

Koolaid Time
09-23-2007, 04:14 PM
Amen. I was getting physically ill watching that over and over again during the game. Surely Kubiak & Co. will have to do something because this is pitiful.

Petey Faggins - you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

Someone will be placed on IR for sure after this game....That gives a spot to bring in someone to evaluate...

rmartin65
09-23-2007, 04:30 PM
Faggins got punked. He was one of the reasons that the game was lost. I understand not wanting to give up the big play, but you cant give that kind of cushion to the colts. Manning will pick you apart every time. Time for Bennet.

J-Russ
09-23-2007, 04:32 PM
If we should try Bennet out as CB #2, next week is the perfect time against a weak Falcon team.

EDIT: Then again, Joey Harrington is looking like Peyton Manning against the Carolina's D.

Trap_Star
09-23-2007, 04:33 PM
Faggins can't cover a corpse...with a blanket.

Rex King
09-23-2007, 05:01 PM
Does anyone know Petey's 40 time? I was always under the impression that he had fairly good ball skills, but had to give a cushion because he lacked top-end speed. But I found he had the best 3-cone time and an excellent 20-yard shuttle time at the 2002 combine.

They were obviously picking on Petey, and we could use an upgrade, but D-Rob, despite an otherwise very good game, got burned by a play fake for a big one as well. Manning also had a lot of time to throw for most of the game. Just sayin'.

pappy
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't know why Jamar Fletcher isn't our #2, he's at least made a play on defense this year.

fletcher played but was burned badly , and missed several tackles ! the only good thing secondary wise I saw was bolware covered a couple of times today and stopped a touchdown on one play .

J-Russ
09-23-2007, 06:42 PM
fletcher played but was burned badly , and missed several tackles ! the only good thing secondary wise I saw was bolware covered a couple of times today and stopped a touchdown on one play .

I saw Boulware burned on acouple of plays, one that sticks out was the colts first TD when Dallas Clark got past him and caught the TD. He was suppose to jam him but didn't and it ended up a TD in about 2 seconds.

I think the only TD stopped in the end zone, was by safety, Von Hutchins.

Vinny
09-23-2007, 06:43 PM
I just got back home from the game....Fletcher was picked on early covering the slot. It was clear that the Colts game planned to pick on him and Faggins. Faggins is a good nickel backer...but he isn't anything but a short term starter at CB2...the colts kept going to the slot and then taking the easy curl on the outside with Faggins unable to play bump and run....Faggins had a huge cushion all game. Until the Texans get a legit cb and move Faggins to the nickel, they will struggle against the pass. That may be till next season.

Texans_Chick
09-23-2007, 07:55 PM
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.

In semi-relevant land, and for a complete history, I will share with you something I heard Matt Stevens say after a fan talked to him nicely about the being burnt thing. (not a subject I'd be happy to bring up to a player).

He said that fans have no idea what coverages are called, and that sometimes he got blamed for things that were other people's responsibilities.

He was at the end of his career, and he was a step or three slow, but the players don't chose themselves. They play usually because there is no better option and hope that coaches put them in good positions.

The guy played for 8 years, coming out of Appalachian State, and I am guessing he stayed in the league that long because a. the Texans were desperate for players and b. he was an effort guy.

FWIW, he was a really nice guy, a not terribly good safety. Not defending him, just reporting.

Basically, I'm guessing our plan for cornerback is to hope that Dunta doesn't get hurt, pray a lot, and then maybe spend some of the money next year that will be freed up from contracts. As much as Bob McNair says the Mario signing was about getting pressure on Peyton Manning, better options in the secondary would help in facing the Colts.

Robinson has more confidence (at least publicly) in Faggins than the fanbase does. He was very happy when Faggins came back after injury.

kiwitexansfan
09-23-2007, 08:01 PM
In my book Faggins and Fletcher are both going to get you beat because they both have huge holes in their games. Faggins is a step slow with some skill, Fletcher is a gambler with good athleticism both of them can't be relied on.

Personally I would take the athlete who can recover with some speed and make the occasional play.

What is Bennett's weakness? Is it purely experience at this point and if so, why not throw him in the deep end to find his feet?

DocBar
09-23-2007, 08:14 PM
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH.

[QUOTE=Marcus;743087]You have to have more than size and speed to be an upgrade. You have to know your assignment. You have to know the scheme. Yeah, he might have more size and speed, but what good is that going to do you if you bust a coverage.

Bennett and Fletcher are not starting over Faggins for good reasons.[/QUOTE
I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT FAGGINS STARTING FOR GOOD REASON. KUBES IS PRETTY LOYAL TO CERTAIN PLAYERS. AFTER WATCHING OUR SUB RECEIVERS TODAY, WHY IS WALTERS STARTING AND ANDRE DAVIS INACTIVE??
At this point, I'm ready to see ANYBODY back there but Faggins. Did Chad Stanley find another job?? At least it would be funny to watch instead of sickening.

Texans_Chick
09-23-2007, 08:17 PM
I'M NOT SO SURE ABOUT FAGGINS STARTING FOR GOOD REASON. KUBES IS PRETTY LOYAL TO CERTAIN PLAYERS. AFTER WATCHING OUR SUB RECEIVERS TODAY, WHY IS WALTERS STARTING AND ANDRE DAVIS INACTIVE??At this point, I'm ready to see ANYBODY back there but Faggins. Did Chad Stanley find another job?? At least it would be funny to watch instead of sickening.

I think Faggins is there because Robinson likes him on the other side. That he is comfortable that he will do his assignments right. At least that is what he said when Faggins came back from injury.

devoc
09-23-2007, 08:31 PM
i take jamar and fred at this point:d:

DocBar
09-23-2007, 08:33 PM
I think Faggins is there because Robinson likes him on the other side. That he is comfortable that he will do his assignments right. At least that is what he said when Faggins came back from injury.

That may be the case, but when did D-Rob become the secondary coach? He needs to tend his side of the field and let someone other than Petey worry about the other. By getting his assignments right are you suggesting Petey's playing like we want him to play??? I know you aren't. I'm just really ticked about this right now.:bat:

Texans_Chick
09-23-2007, 08:44 PM
That may be the case, but when did D-Rob become the secondary coach? He needs to tend his side of the field and let someone other than Petey worry about the other. By getting his assignments right are you suggesting Petey's playing like we want him to play??? I know you aren't. I'm just really ticked about this right now.:bat:

You could tell how frustrated Robinson was at the beginning of last year. Part of that is that he didn't trust the other corner on the other side to be where he needed to be for what coverages were called. I am certain that if the secondary coach thought there were better options, he would be playing them.

The Texans defense overall played better when Faggins came back. (notwithstanding the Lee Evans experience).

Yeah, Petey has got burnt, but he is a nickle corner and one of the many place holding players that the Texans have to depend on until they draft more and have more salary cap money. I'm not going to blame him for not being a better #2 CB any more than I am going to blame water for being wet. He is a nickle corner being pressed to play #2 because their ain't many better options. Everybody is looking for quality corners and they aren't easy to find.

And better corners have been embarrassed by Steve Smith and Peyton Manning.

I don't know, I just have a hard time killing players who fail when they are playing out of position but are using their best effort. They didn't choose to be put in their position.

DocBar
09-23-2007, 09:03 PM
You could tell how frustrated Robinson was at the beginning of last year. Part of that is that he didn't trust the other corner on the other side to be where he needed to be for what coverages were called. I am certain that if the secondary coach thought there were better options, he would be playing them.

The Texans defense overall played better when Faggins came back. (notwithstanding the Lee Evans experience).

Yeah, Petey has got burnt, but he is a nickle corner and one of the many place holding players that the Texans have to depend on until they draft more and have more salary cap money. I'm not going to blame him for not being a better #2 CB any more than I am going to blame water for being wet. He is a nickle corner being pressed to play #2 because their ain't many better options. Everybody is looking for quality corners and they aren't easy to find.

And better corners have been embarrassed by Steve Smith and Peyton Manning.

I don't know, I just have a hard time killing players who fail when they are playing out of position but are using their best effort. They didn't choose to be put in their position. I'm sure we'll be seeing D-Rob getting frustrated w/ Petey if he keeps giving up big plays. I certainly think he could do a decent job at nickel, but I disagree that he doesn't WANT to be the starting corner. Every player in the NFL wants to be a starter with the exception of GOLDBRICK(AKA David Carr). I'm ready for a changing of the guard at that position. Let's see what Fletcher can do there and see how Petey does at his better suited nickel. He would STILL get plenty of playing time, considering our division, so what would it hurt?

thunderkyss
09-23-2007, 09:41 PM
I'm sure CB is going to be a top priority for the Texans in the 08 draft-

IMHO, Cornerback, Running back, & Center. Not necessarily in that order.

At the same time, I'm watching games all around the league today, and people are getting burnt left & right.

Nine ther QBs threw for more yards than Peyton did today, and Drew Brees hasn't even suited up yet.

19 receivers have more recieving yards than Reggie Wayne, who had no touch downs. 51 receivers had a better day than Marvin Harrison(no touchdowns).

So yeah, go ahead and cry & moan about Petey, but it could be worse.

Now, I know the worst argument you could ever use for any player, is that there are worse players out there. & I'm not trying to make excuses for Petey. But I think some folks are a little harsh on him.

Nobody in this league has two shut down cover corners.

WRs get paid mad money & Petey is relatively cheap, even when you consider what we're getting out of him.

(Man I'm watching the Cowboy Bear game, and Adam Archelletta just gave up a touchdown to Marion Barber. I'm thinking about how soooo many people just want to ditch CC Brown. Archelletta has been abused by Barber & Whitten, both scoring TDs on him. )

Anyway. We don't have stars at every position. but we've got a pretty good team. Petey is a good football player, may not be the best corner in the leagu, but he's a good football player.

Let's just enjoy the ride, and trust Kubiak to do what needs to be done, when he feels we should do it.

beerlover
09-23-2007, 09:50 PM
IMHO, Cornerback, Running back, & Center. Not necessarily in that order.

At the same time, I'm watching games all around the league today, and people are getting burnt left & right.

Nine ther QBs threw for more yards than Peyton did today, and Drew Brees hasn't even suited up yet.

19 receivers have more recieving yards than Reggie Wayne, who had no touch downs. 51 receivers had a better day than Marvin Harrison(no touchdowns).

So yeah, go ahead and cry & moan about Petey, but it could be worse.

Now, I know the worst argument you could ever use for any player, is that there are worse players out there. & I'm not trying to make excuses for Petey. But I think some folks are a little harsh on him.

Nobody in this league has two shut down cover corners.

WRs get paid mad money & Petey is relatively cheap, even when you consider what we're getting out of him.

(Man I'm watching the Cowboy Bear game, and Adam Archelletta just gave up a touchdown to Marion Barber. I'm thinking about how soooo many people just want to ditch CC Brown. Archelletta has been abused by Barber & Whitten, both scoring TDs on him. )

Anyway. We don't have stars at every position. but we've got a pretty good team. Petey is a good football player, may not be the best corner in the leagu, but he's a good football player.

Let's just enjoy the ride, and trust Kubiak to do what needs to be done, when he feels we should do it.

the real problem with Petey is he's being asked to play out of position (nickle/zone). he lacks the strength & physical nature to jam receivers off the line, then the make-up speed to cover in single coverage.

thunderkyss
09-23-2007, 10:15 PM
the real problem with Petey is he's being asked to play out of position (nickle/zone). he lacks the strength & physical nature to jam receivers off the line, then the make-up speed to cover in single coverage.

So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels everytime the Colts had the ball.

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2007, 10:24 PM
Leon Halls has been burnt a lot this year and he was drafted when last year? I know I was pretty high on him and Revis.

I'm starting to ease up on our safeties a little (w/ Hutchins,Demps,Boulware,Brown).

It will be interesting to see how we finish (record), serious injuries at the end of the season, our strengths and weaknesses then.

for me, Front runner for 1st rd pick is CB and RB right now- I know a lot of people get mad when others talk about the draft this early... but thats part of the fun of being a young team :)

oh wow, grossman just got picked again. (now there's a #8 i'm glad we don't have! lol )

Carr Bombed
09-23-2007, 10:35 PM
For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.

thunderkyss
09-23-2007, 10:35 PM
I know a lot of people get mad when others talk about the draft this early...

What better reason to watch College Football??

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2007, 10:40 PM
For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.

That would just about shore up our defense!

What better reason to watch College Football??

Exactly my thinking as well.

Random thought of the Day: Terrel Owens really reminds me of Bernie Mac.

beerlover
09-23-2007, 10:49 PM
So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

he's earned the spot & remains their best option.

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Peyton lights up every cb, don't go blaming coaching or Petey, please.

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

lighten up dude, the defense did reasonably well. the Colts OL has developed into one the best units in the NFL. our LB's really limited their ground game, nothing terrible & our DL never gave up, just could'nt catch a break because Manning is too smart & gets rid of the ball quickly.

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

its no excuse but those two teams in week 1 & 2 where not the Colts.

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels everytime the Colts had the ball.

the Texans where without their #1 RB shortly after the first set, the #2 RB the entire game & the #3 RB should not have even made this team, not to mention their #1 playmaker WR Andre Johnson. they need an immediate transfusion :beerfunnel:

Vinny
09-23-2007, 11:31 PM
So then the question is why is he always in single coverage??

We didn't loose this game because Petey couldn't cover. IMHO, it's more about bad coaching.

Relatively no pass rush, poor coverage by the LBs, and as I mentioned before, a poor game plan against the Colts. We were rushing Manning all day with four down linemen, with with no concern for gap control.

In weeks 1&2, we took away the run, got a lead, and made the other team play catch up.

This week, we virtually ignored the running game, and were on the backs of our heels every time the Colts had the ball.Faggins wasn't always in single coverage. He gave a big cushion to not get beat deep but that was the technique they worked on all week. Part of why he was in it is because he isn't that good as a press corner. I saw him play in the outside getting inside help, and he also had help over the top as the secondary mixed up their coverages pretty well. Faggins is much like the Oilers Steve Jackson....a good player as an extra back in passing downs but not a good starter. Fletcher isn't as good a player as Faggins is so benching Faggins isn't a solution at the moment I don't think.

Carr Bombed
09-24-2007, 12:07 AM
Faggins wasn't always in single coverage. He gave a big cushion to not get beat deep but that was the technique they worked on all week. Part of why he was in it is because he isn't that good as a press corner. I saw him play in the outside getting inside help, and he also had help over the top as the secondary mixed up their coverages pretty well. Faggins is much like the Oilers Steve Jackson....a good player as an extra back in passing downs but not a good starter. Fletcher isn't as good a player as Faggins is so benching Faggins isn't a solution at the moment I don't think.

If thats true, what the heck does that say about our coaching?

I mean if the casual fans......(me, you, and everybody else) is talking about how Faggins ONLY assignment is not to get beat deep with his cushions, then what's going to stop opposing coaches from drawing up their game plans to drive Faggins back and then turn around and catch intermediate passes all game. (which is exactly what's been going on)

Nobody is going to respect our pass defense until the Texans (Faggins) can prove they can man up on that side.

Faggins has been exposed on tape....the Colts just didn't walk into the game saying......"gee whiz we are getting lucky throwing that 6 to 7 yard gimmie on the right side".....they knew it was going to be there and until we mix things up.....it's going to be there.

I don't know, maybe I'm just frustrated, I just want/feel there's a better answer to this problem.....If it can't be found on the bench (and no I'm not a "fire everybody guy"), but maybe we need to find a replacement for John Hoke, because frankly........what makes the guy so special? year after year our secondary is always a weakness on this team and it's not just because we play in the same division as the Colts.

Sometimes I feel that Dunta's stellar rookie year gave Hoke a multi-year "grace period".

rollinstone18
09-24-2007, 12:10 AM
For me, front runner for first FA signing is a CB.

Why not, we have the cap space and does anybody really want to wait 3 years for one to develop? Sign a good CB in FA (even is you have to overpay for one) and be done with it.

I'm all for Asante Samuels at this point.

Sign a good CB, draft a safety, and be done with it.

I like Samuels too but that would make our #1 and #2 CB under 6ft. Maybe it'd work out fine, but it's still something to keep in mind. He's also going to want a lot of dough. And there's a good crop of young CBs in the '08 draft. But he's still worth pursuing.

Another free agent I'd like to look at signing is Alan Faneca.

Vinny
09-24-2007, 12:11 AM
If thats true, what the heck does that say about our coaching?I just think it means that they didn't want to give up big plays on that side of the field. A lot of critical plays were given up by Fletcher and Faggins both, but I think that says more about their talent level than it does our coaching. I mean, we just played one of the NFL's all time, historic passing offenses...Faggins isn't a great CB but the team is good enough to beat the lower 16 teams in the NFL and compete with the better teams even with Faggins at CB2. The Manning Colts are good.

Carr Bombed
09-24-2007, 12:34 AM
I just think it means that they didn't want to give up big plays on that side of the field. A lot of critical plays were given up by Fletcher and Faggins both, but I think that says more about their talent level than it does our coaching. I mean, we just played one of the NFL's all time, historic passing offenses...Faggins isn't a great CB but the team is good enough to beat the lower 16 teams in the NFL and compete with the better teams even with Faggins at CB2. The Manning Colts are good.


I understand the Colts are great....don't get me wrong, they are great, but we got burnt be Carolina also (only one elite receiver). We are getting beat by a coaching standpoint (Dunta should of been put on Smith) and a player standpoint.

The way this secondary is playing and the way things are rolling, I think John Hoke's head is going to roll.

Carr Bombed
09-24-2007, 01:00 AM
I like Samuels too but that would make our #1 and #2 CB under 6ft. Maybe it'd work out fine, but it's still something to keep in mind. He's also going to want a lot of dough. And there's a good crop of young CBs in the '08 draft. But he's still worth pursuing.

Another free agent I'd like to look at signing is Alan Faneca.

I just threw Samuels name out there, mainly because we can afford him, but regardless if we go for him or not, we should still sign a player in FA that the team feels can be a # 2 cb here..........and a player that can play in the AFC South with Wayne, Harrison, Clark, and Gonzalez.........that mean's a upper echelon cb.


You know, I was going to start a whole another thread on this, but I'll go ahead and post it here.

Everybody loves to say......"Texans built their team to beat the Colts', locally and national people say they have, but if you think about it, they haven't

As much as it pains me to say it, the Titans have built their team to beat the Colts. Regardless if anyone wants to acknowledge it, Peyton doesn't give a crap or cares about "your" pass rush and the Colts offense is built from the pass first, run second philosophy.

Let me ask you this question........who has played the Colts closer and held the Colts to lower scores?

The Titans have spent their draft and FA on upgrading their talent in the secondary and it shows against the Colts.

Texanmike02
09-24-2007, 02:47 AM
Just my .02.

I didn't think this was a playoff year to start. I might be changing that. But if I have to chose between a wildcard and out year vs an 8-9 win season and developing a CB2. I'll take the CB2 and even higher expectations next year. Hell, if you have to... rotate CB2. Either way... at least there isn't much film showing oppsing coaches what Bennet's weaknesses are. Faggins lack of ability is documented over a 4 year period. He's a nickleback.. and that's not a knock on him. He's overachieving as a 6th round pick. I have no doubt he puts in work.. you have to if you want to stay in this league. Especially given the fact I don't think he's as physically gifted as anyone but Kris Brown on our roster.

Mike

thunderkyss
09-24-2007, 06:55 AM
Faggins wasn't always in single coverage. He gave a big cushion to not get beat deep but that was the technique they worked on all week.

I don't believe he was always in single coverage, and I'm not disappointed with our team as a unit. I was responding sarcastically to someone who said he was always in single coverage.

I like Faggins, and I think he's as good as most of the CB2s in this league. I'll take Faggins over Anthony Henry, even though Henry has two picks now. I bet Faggins will have a solid year stat wise come week 17.

I understand the Colts are great....don't get me wrong, they are great, but we got burnt be Carolina also (only one elite receiver). We are getting beat by a coaching standpoint (Dunta should of been put on Smith) and a player standpoint.

The way this secondary is playing and the way things are rolling, I think John Hoke's head is going to roll.

IMHO, because we have this team under a micro-scope we are hyper critical of several players. Faggins & CC Brown specifically. These guys are middle of the pack, I think, but because we see them every week, we think they are the worse players in the league.

Petey didn't get "burnt" by Steve Smith. At least I didn't see it(but I've got a bad memory). He fell down on the second touchdown, but he was in position to make the play. Steve Smith caught the ball, then blew by three other Texans defenders not named Faggins.

On the first touchdown, Petey was in his face, and prevented Smith from initially receiving the ball. But it took a Carolina bounce, and Steve Smith made a great play.

Now, to keep things in Perspective, the Colts have averaged 417ypg this year. We only allowed 364 to that team, and we scored 24 points without our go to guy, and our third string running back.

Silver lining and all, we're still looking pretty good.

The1ApplePie
09-24-2007, 07:38 AM
Samuels is Jason David part 2. Another zone CB that can't cover anything man to man.

Carr Bombed
09-24-2007, 10:53 AM
Samuels is Jason David part 2. Another zone CB that can't cover anything man to man.

I've seen Samuels shut down plenty of people man to man.

If he was just another "Jason David" then why didn't the Pats let him walk like the Colts, when they always let their "zone CBs" walk. Nope instead, the Pats paid Samuels top dollar and franchised him to return.

Texans_Chick
09-24-2007, 11:32 AM
I just think it means that they didn't want to give up big plays on that side of the field. A lot of critical plays were given up by Fletcher and Faggins both, but I think that says more about their talent level than it does our coaching. I mean, we just played one of the NFL's all time, historic passing offenses...Faggins isn't a great CB but the team is good enough to beat the lower 16 teams in the NFL and compete with the better teams even with Faggins at CB2. The Manning Colts are good.

Exactly. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ....beaks.

powerfuldragon
09-24-2007, 11:35 AM
how about feet? http://www.clicket.com/images/25008.jpg

Shaft75
09-24-2007, 12:01 PM
I've seen Samuels shut down plenty of people man to man.

If he was just another "Jason David" then why didn't the Pats let him walk like the Colts, when they always let their "zone CBs" walk. Nope instead, the Pats paid Samuels top dollar and franchised him to return.

You're right, Samuels is a top notch CB in this league. We could only dream of having him on our roster right now. It would make a world of difference to our defense.

BSofA04
09-24-2007, 03:10 PM
Here's my take on this topic...it's just too early to put Bennett into the fire. I think that most of us here can agree that Kubiak knows what he's doing, so if Bennett was the better option, he would hae put him in already. From what I understand, Bennett isn't healthy. Once he's able to contribute, I say put him into nickle packages for some experience. Confidence is precious in this league, so the more favorable looks he gets, the better. Let's not throw him into the fire just yet.

AnthonyE
09-24-2007, 03:18 PM
It's time to bring in some more CB's this off season and relegate Faggins to Texans history. Maybe Bennett isn't ready but even if he's completely unready I can't see how he could be abused worse than Faggins.

Lets face facts people. Our secondary is a running case of "You ARE the weakest link". There's always one guy back there waiting to give the game away. DeMarcus Faggins is this years Matt Stevens. We may not have anyone better to run out on the field but we can't lie about what we see. Peyton picked on him all day long (as he should have). Faggins is a nickel at best and more than likely on his way out. He's had a heck of a run for a 6th but it's time we got that secondary in order. Our DL rocks, our linebackers are playing their butts off. Our secondary must be improved.

Great comparison!

He's getting abused out there, just to get his WR partially covered we'll need a double team out there.

Corrosion
09-24-2007, 05:00 PM
For all you guy's regurgitating the same garbage bashing Faggins ..... Sunday he was covering Marvin Harrison , the guy is one of the top 5 recievers in the NFL . Harrison had 6 catches for 53 yards no TD's and a long of 14 yards ..... Pey-Me-A-Ton Manning was playing catch with him . He's no slouch either .... arguably the #1 or #2 QB in the game right now .

Add to that the Texans safeties are probably the weakest position on that side of the ball at this time . There is NO true FS on this roster . Boulware and Demps didnt join the team until after training camp and probably dont have a great grasp of their jobs in this defense just yet .... Not to mention that they are both more suited to the SS position . Do I even need to mention CC Brown here ?

Von Hutchins is a CB playing out of position , he's made a few plays but is he really the answer ? He was behind Faggins at the CB position for a reason .

Lets not forget that Glenn Earl , Jason Simmons and Brandon Harrison are all on IR .

Seems every week teams try to match up their best reciever against Faggins . And every week the coaches keep sending him out there with limited help over the top ..... could that be why he gives recievers a 5-7 yard cushion ?

Yes , Steve Smith had 3 TD's in last weeks game .... one of which was a highlight reel catch in the end zone tipping the ball to himself .... Faggins had excelent position on the play ..... Smith just made a great play . On one of the others about 5 guy's failed to tackle him after a mediocre gain .... just another great play from Smith .
Take away that play and Smith had a good game but nothing to bellow about . (7 catches for 79 yards . 11.3 avg)

As for the final catch that Harrison made for a first down essentially killing the Texans chances .... Its the coaches who call the plays and put the players in position prior to the snap not the other way around . Ive yet to see a Defensive Coordinator record a sack or interception ..... The coaches had to know better than giving Harrison a 7 yard cushion in that situatoin .

Maybe some of you guy's had Marvin Harrison on your fantasy teams this week and are kinda pissed he didnt do more ..... but when Harrison lines up against the Texans I'll take 6 catches for 53 yards and no TD's from my DB every week .

Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark had a bigger impact on this game than Harrison ....

You Armchair Cornerbacks need to find another scapegoat :bat:

Shaft75
09-24-2007, 05:18 PM
For all you guy's regurgitating the same garbage bashing Faggins ..... Sunday he was covering Marvin Harrison , the guy is one of the top 5 recievers in the NFL . Harrison had 6 catches for 53 yards no TD's and a long of 14 yards ..... Pey-Me-A-Ton Manning was playing catch with him . He's no slouch either .... arguably the #1 or #2 QB in the game right now .

Add to that the Texans safeties are probably the weakest position on that side of the ball at this time . There is NO true FS on this roster . Boulware and Demps didnt join the team until after training camp and probably dont have a great grasp of their jobs in this defense just yet .... Not to mention that they are both more suited to the SS position . Do I even need to mention CC Brown here ?

Von Hutchins is a CB playing out of position , he's made a few plays but is he really the answer ? He was behind Faggins at the CB position for a reason .

Lets not forget that Glenn Earl , Jason Simmons and Brandon Harrison are all on IR .

Seems every week teams try to match up their best reciever against Faggins . And every week the coaches keep sending him out there with limited help over the top ..... could that be why he gives recievers a 5-7 yard cushion ?

Yes , Steve Smith had 3 TD's in last weeks game .... one of which was a highlight reel catch in the end zone tipping the ball to himself .... Faggins had excelent position on the play ..... Smith just made a great play . On one of the others about 5 guy's failed to tackle him after a mediocre gain .... just another great play from Smith .
Take away that play and Smith had a good game but nothing to bellow about . (7 catches for 79 yards . 11.3 avg)

As for the final catch that Harrison made for a first down essentially killing the Texans chances .... Its the coaches who call the plays and put the players in position prior to the snap not the other way around . Ive yet to see a Defensive Coordinator record a sack or interception ..... The coaches had to know better than giving Harrison a 7 yard cushion in that situatoin .

Maybe some of you guy's had Marvin Harrison on your fantasy teams this week and are kinda pissed he didnt do more ..... but when Harrison lines up against the Texans I'll take 6 catches for 53 yards and no TD's from my DB every week .

Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark had a bigger impact on this game than Harrison ....

You Armchair Cornerbacks need to find another scapegoat :bat:

Have you watched the Texans in previous years?

We don't call out Faggins for our health. He is a nice guy and we want him to succeed for the good of our team.

Your post is nothing more than a huge excuse to why Faggins hasn't played that well. There is no need to go over all of the reasons that we need a new CB2. Just read over all of the other comments.

thunderkyss
09-24-2007, 05:33 PM
You Armchair Cornerbacks need to find another scapegoat :bat:

I tried to tell them.

thunderkyss
09-24-2007, 05:35 PM
Have you watched the Texans in previous years?

We don't call out Faggins for our health. He is a nice guy and we want him to succeed for the good of our team.

Your post is nothing more than a huge excuse to why Faggins hasn't played that well. There is no need to go over all of the reasons that we need a new CB2. Just read over all of the other comments.

Marvin Harrison 53 yards...

what more does he need to say??

Shaft75
09-24-2007, 05:37 PM
Marvin Harrison 53 yards...

what more does he need to say??

CB's assigned to the same sides of the field...

Corrosion
09-24-2007, 05:48 PM
Have you watched the Texans in previous years?

We don't call out Faggins for our health. He is a nice guy and we want him to succeed for the good of our team.

Your post is nothing more than a huge excuse to why Faggins hasn't played that well. There is no need to go over all of the reasons that we need a new CB2. Just read over all of the other comments.

Yes , Ive watched since day one ....This team had the same problems last season .


Actually I was going over the reasons that the Texans need to get a safety that can cover .
When that happens Faggins wont be on an island every play , Or would you rather see CC Brown one on one with Harrison ? Only if you are a Dolts fan .

Go figure ...R. Smith has aquired two players since training camp in the secondary neither are corners . If Faggins is the problem Wouldnt Smith have signed one of those rejects that were cut by the other 31 NFL teams ? They are all better than Faggins ......


Defense is played by 11 men and when one thing doesnt work it breaks something else .... Having safey's who cant recognize and react in coverage means CB's give a bigger cushion LB's fall into coverage rather than blitzing .... Kinda like when the D-line cant get the job done the D-backs look horrible , LB's make tackles 5-6 yards down field rather than at the line of scrimage one feeds off of the other .
The sooner people figure out that the NFL aint Madden .... :gun:

shinerbock_girl
09-24-2007, 06:00 PM
It sure was frustrating though watching him not be able to cover guys....He has got to really start stepping up....

Carr Bombed
09-24-2007, 06:57 PM
Yes , Ive watched since day one ....This team had the same problems last season .


Actually I was going over the reasons that the Texans need to get a safety that can cover .
When that happens Faggins wont be on an island every play , Or would you rather see CC Brown one on one with Harrison ? Only if you are a Dolts fan .

Go figure ...R. Smith has aquired two players since training camp in the secondary neither are corners . If Faggins is the problem Wouldnt Smith have signed one of those rejects that were cut by the other 31 NFL teams ? They are all better than Faggins ......


Defense is played by 11 men and when one thing doesnt work it breaks something else .... Having safey's who cant recognize and react in coverage means CB's give a bigger cushion LB's fall into coverage rather than blitzing .... Kinda like when the D-line cant get the job done the D-backs look horrible , LB's make tackles 5-6 yards down field rather than at the line of scrimage one feeds off of the other .
The sooner people figure out that the NFL aint Madden .... :gun:

While I also think we need to upgrade the S spots, Faggins coverage (or lack of) had nothing to do with the safety play. Faggins wasn't getting beat deep, he was getting abused on the intermediate passes........that has nothing to do with the safeties.

Your right about the Defense, it is played by 11 men and everybody has to do their job, Faggins is failing at his job.

Faggins needs to step up and elevate his play or sit down on the bench, its really not that complicated and this is a message board, so when people have opinions it has nothing to do with a video game.

Corrosion
09-25-2007, 12:49 PM
Your right about the Defense, it is played by 11 men and everybody has to do their job, Faggins is failing at his job.


I have to disagree on that statement . You have to remember who Faggins was lining up against and who was playin catch with that Harrison guy . Again that was Peyton Manning .

I'd give ya 20to1 that Faggins was told by the coaches in no uncertian terms to give him a cushion , keep everything in front of you and wrap up when ya tackle .
Let me repeat again Harrisons pedestrian numbers ..... 6 receptions for 53 yards and no TD's . An 8.8 avg per catch . Peety had 5 tackles and two assists . Seems to me he did exactly that .

Yes I realize he gave up several catches but thats because he has to give the reciever a big cushion .... why ? Because When he gets beat (this is Manning and Harrision we're talkin about here) he cant expect any help because the safety makes poor reads and takes bad angles .


For those who are still looking for excuses or a scapegoat here's a few stats ...

2 Turnovers . Two Ints one of which was in the red zone the Colts subsequent drive ended in a field goal . The other gave the Colts the ball at the Houston 21 and resulted in a TD . The Colts had No Turnovers.
40 Net yards rushing on 17 plays for the Texans .
Average Gain per Rushing Play 2.4
3 sacks allowed by the Texans for 22 yards . Manning was sacked Once for a whopping 3 yard loss .


That doesnt look like a blueprint for beating the Dolts to me .

Carr Bombed
09-25-2007, 01:42 PM
I have to disagree on that statement . You have to remember who Faggins was lining up against and who was playin catch with that Harrison guy . Again that was Peyton Manning .

I'd give ya 20to1 that Faggins was told by the coaches in no uncertian terms to give him a cushion , keep everything in front of you and wrap up when ya tackle .
Let me repeat again Harrisons pedestrian numbers ..... 6 receptions for 53 yards and no TD's . An 8.8 avg per catch . Peety had 5 tackles and two assists . Seems to me he did exactly that .

Yes I realize he gave up several catches but thats because he has to give the reciever a big cushion .... why ? Because When he gets beat (this is Manning and Harrision we're talkin about here) he cant expect any help because the safety makes poor reads and takes bad angles .


For those who are still looking for excuses or a scapegoat here's a few stats ...

2 Turnovers . Two Ints one of which was in the red zone the Colts subsequent drive ended in a field goal . The other gave the Colts the ball at the Houston 21 and resulted in a TD . The Colts had No Turnovers.
40 Net yards rushing on 17 plays for the Texans .
Average Gain per Rushing Play 2.4
3 sacks allowed by the Texans for 22 yards . Manning was sacked Once for a whopping 3 yard loss .


That doesnt look like a blueprint for beating the Dolts to me .

I'm not bashing Faggins just on his performance against Indy........this goes back to last week and the fact that our coaches have to tell him to give cushions like that (I doubt that was how he was supposed to play on the critical 3rd down though.) just shows how out matched he is going up against good receivers, and again, I could care less about the stats, it seems everytime the Colts needed a key play they threw and picked on Faggins. I'm not looking for a scapegoat.......I'm looking for somebody to step up and give a better performance.

bah007
09-25-2007, 01:55 PM
but what were the situations of the catches? i seem to remember a lot of 3 and __ were it was pretty clear that manning had harrison run to the first down and turn. 6 receptions for 53 ain't exactly marvin harrison unless those 6 catches were for 6 first downs. i wasn't expecting petey to put up much a fight against harrison and smith, but to be the weakest link over and again? i don't want a target playing cb, so i'd rather try something new than be burned by the same thing.

Even if we had put Dunta on Harrison it wouldnt matter.

Manning is gonna look at Harrison first no matter who is covering him.

The guy is one of the top 3 WRs of all time (Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison [yea, he belongs there]) & we complain when a 6th round pick gives him 50 yds in a game.

eriadoc
09-25-2007, 03:05 PM
Even if we had put Dunta on Harrison it wouldnt matter.

Manning is gonna look at Harrison first no matter who is covering him.

The guy is one of the top 3 WRs of all time (Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison [yea, he belongs there]) & we complain when a 6th round pick gives him 50 yds in a game.

You forgot Lee Evans, Drew Bennett, and Coles/Cotchery, just off the top of my head. And as I get older, my memory gets hazy, but I believe Faggins would be willing to have Ryan Fitzpatrick inducted into the HoF as well. Just sayin'.

Exithios
09-25-2007, 03:11 PM
Even if we had put Dunta on Harrison it wouldnt matter.

Manning is gonna look at Harrison first no matter who is covering him.

The guy is one of the top 3 WRs of all time (Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison [yea, he belongs there]) & we complain when a 6th round pick gives him 50 yds in a game.

I will not knock Petey for his performance, after-all, he is a 6th round pick as well as a nickelback.

My complaint is that the #2 corner position has been a glaring weakness in our secondary since last season and we made no attempt at upgrading it this past off-season. The weakness in the position has, once again, become glaring and something must be done.

infantrycak
09-25-2007, 03:18 PM
My complaint is that the #2 corner position has been a glaring weakness in our secondary since last season and we made no attempt at upgrading it this past off-season.

Easy to say but harder to do. Who were you going to get that is better than Faggins?

Nate Clements--not enough cap space.
Jason David--aka Manning's punching bag the other night far worse than Faggins was.
Nick Harper--a 33 year old who the Colts have been trying to replace for years.

They took a CB in the 4th. The only way they could have done more in the draft is give up Okoye or Jacoby.

real
09-25-2007, 03:18 PM
I dunno...

I think considering all the areas we were weak at, Kubes an CO. did a good job at making the roster competitive.

You can't fill every position with top notched players in one off-season.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2007, 03:30 PM
I dunno...

I think considering all the areas we were weak at, Kubes an CO. did a good job at making the roster competitive.

You can't fill every position with top notched players in one off-season.

I agree. Especially with the limited amount of cap we had. I would assume there will be soime jack to throw around in the off-season.

Anywho, I'm still enjoying the season at hand with the players we presently have on our roster. I'll think about the possible off-season additions....in the off-season.:)

Corrosion
09-25-2007, 04:46 PM
I'm not bashing Faggins just on his performance against Indy........this goes back to last week and the fact that our coaches have to tell him to give cushions like that.

You be sure to watch the Colts and Bronco's next week and pay special attention to how Champ Bailey or Dre Bly line up when they are matched up with Harrison. Those are two of the NFL's best and they will give Harrison that same 5-7 yards .


but what were the situations of the catches? i seem to remember a lot of 3 and __ were it was pretty clear that manning had harrison run to the first down and turn.


Three of Harrisons 6 catches were on 3rd down according to the game logs on NFL.com.



I agree. Especially with the limited amount of cap we had. I would assume there will be some jack to throw around in the off-season.
Anywho, I'm still enjoying the season at hand with the players we presently have on our roster. I'll think about the possible off-season additions....in the off-season.:)

They should be well under the cap for the next FA period as several contracts come off the books including David Carr's extention , Garry Walker , Bennie Joppru , Zach Wiegert , Seth Wand and Domanick Davis errr Williams to list a few .

HJam72
09-25-2007, 06:52 PM
They should be well under the cap for the next FA period as several contracts come off the books including David Carr's extention , Garry Walker , Bennie Joppru , Zach Wiegert , Seth Wand and Domanick Davis errr Williams to list a few .

Music to my ears--even if I did already know it. :fans:

DocBar
09-27-2007, 10:48 AM
Here's a good link for this discussion.
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout150.html

dalemurphy
09-27-2007, 11:02 AM
I will not knock Petey for his performance, after-all, he is a 6th round pick as well as a nickelback.

My complaint is that the #2 corner position has been a glaring weakness in our secondary since last season and we made no attempt at upgrading it this past off-season. The weakness in the position has, once again, become glaring and something must be done.


We drafted Bennett and signed Jamar Fletcher. I'm not sure what your idea of "no attempt" is, but I think a lot was done to improve the CB play this off-season, especially considering the cap hell we were in.

Exithios
09-27-2007, 01:56 PM
We drafted Bennett and signed Jamar Fletcher. I'm not sure what your idea of "no attempt" is, but I think a lot was done to improve the CB play this off-season, especially considering the cap hell we were in.

If alot was done to "improve our corner back play" then why is the same old tired nickel corner still starting at #2? Not much improvement, just more weight on the pine. Please explain this improvement that I have blindly failed to see...

dalemurphy
09-27-2007, 02:19 PM
If alot was done to "improve our corner back play" then why is the same old tired nickel corner still starting at #2? Not much improvement, just more weight on the pine. Please explain this improvement that I have blindly failed to see...

once again, we drafted Bennett with our 3rd pick (after Okoye and J.Jones... who would you not want right now) and signed Jamar Fletcher...

This off-season we had no money and got a QB, RB, OL depth, re-signed Andre Johnson, DT, LB help, WR help.

What would you've done differently? I'd say spending a middle round pick and getting an ex 1st round CB via FA is doing something!

Corrosion
09-27-2007, 02:31 PM
once again, we drafted Bennett with our 3rd pick (after Okoye and J.Jones... who would you not want right now) and signed Jamar Fletcher...

This off-season we had no money and got a QB, RB, OL depth, re-signed Andre Johnson, DT, LB help, WR help.

What would you've done differently? I'd say spending a middle round pick and getting an ex 1st round CB via FA is doing something!

:bomb:

Yet again the players brought in couldnt beat Peety out . The coaches keep running Peety out there to cover the likes of Steve Smith and Marvin Harrison ..... there has to be a reason for their decision . Could it be that Peety gives them the best chance to win now ? No No ..... those coaches must be idiots.

infantrycak
09-27-2007, 02:31 PM
If alot was done to "improve our corner back play" then why is the same old tired nickel corner still starting at #2? Not much improvement, just more weight on the pine. Please explain this improvement that I have blindly failed to see...

Once again you dodge the question. It isn't enough to just say they should have done more--say specifically what should have been done.

Specnatz
09-27-2007, 03:26 PM
Once again you dodge the question. It isn't enough to just say they should have done more--say specifically what should have been done.

I have always hated arguements where someone blast what you have done but wont say what they would have done differently .................


:ohsnap:

This is exactly what espin does every year at draft time and right before training camp starts.

Thanks Mel Kiper jr for your insight.

:user:

Exithios
09-27-2007, 04:30 PM
Unfortunately I work for a living and can not hover over my posts while on the clock. So I apologize that you all have been so impatiently awaiting my response (I almost feel special :splits: ).

I never suggested that we could have made a better move in the off season, I merely pointed out that what we did do obviously was not an improvement.

And my suggestion that we made no attempt at fixing the #2 cb spot was, admittedly, out of line. Our 4th round pick and our acquired former first rounder that has never lived up to his potential were, technically, attempts.

As for what I would do, move him around in the secondary so that the same spot on the field isn't exposed every single down.

BigBull17
09-27-2007, 10:53 PM
Um, the game plan was to make them drive for everything, and we did make them drive. They earned their points and thats how it goes. Think about the same gameplan with our freakin offensive options 1-4? If we arent on option 5 by the start of the 4th quarter, its a different game. So, with "crappy" Faggins, we still had a shot. Not all him. Point at the Safties first, thats the weakness.

infantrycak
09-27-2007, 11:04 PM
As for what I would do, move him around in the secondary so that the same spot on the field isn't exposed every single down.

Most teams no longer have CB's play WR's but instead have them play sides. Supposedly this is to not divulge the coverage and not allow the O to manipulate the D through motion. I agree though that something has to be done to not allow the O to consistently choose to put their #1 WR against our #2 CB.

thunderkyss
09-27-2007, 11:19 PM
I never suggested that we could have made a better move in the off season, I merely pointed out that what we did do obviously was not an improvement.

And my suggestion that we made no attempt at fixing the #2 cb spot was, admittedly, out of line. Our 4th round pick and our acquired former first rounder that has never lived up to his potential were, technically, attempts.

As for what I would do, move him around in the secondary so that the same spot on the field isn't exposed every single down.

Maybe our #2 CB problem isn't as bad as you(and many others) think it is.

Now let's think about this for a minute.

One of the greatest of all time(Marvin Harris) held to 53 yards. That is not a good day for any receiver. Imagine that was T.O. or Chad Johnson.

No TDs... again, imagine that was Terrell Owens.. even with the win, do you think he'd be happy?? I doubt it.

Now maybe you saw a lot of catches being made, and Petey being the first one to make the tackle, or at least he was in the Vicinity.

Dallas Clark, & Anthony Gonzales were upsetting me more than anything. Our LBs bit on the Play-Action like our safeties used to. Was Bulware playing safety or LB?? Because he got beat by Clark on the line for the Colts first TD(made it look stupid easy).

& Reggie Wayne had 4 catches for 84 yards, and a touchdown. Was that Faggins as well?? I remember seeing Dunta eating a little dirt as Reggie ran past him.

But I don't mind getting beat ever now and again by one of the best WR duo in the league today(Chad and Houshmanzadah is the other duo). But to let Clark, Gonzales, & Addai beat us is unacceptable in my book.

Our LBs need to get better at reading run/pass, and they can't cover worth a $@#t.


Petey played well against Carolina... yes he did. Sure Steve Smith scored twice on him. But not because Petey got burnt. Because Smith got lucky. & they were down by three scores when Smith made his 3rd TD, and our entire secondary got burned.

But the rest of that game, Delhomme had a hard time finding anyone to throw the ball to.

And Damon Huard struggled with it as well.

I predict we will continue to struggle with teams that have a strong intermediate passing game. Most of your West Coast teams. and teams that want to stretch the field, and play vertical will have a hard time with us. Dallas, Carolina, KC.

Because our LBs can't cover.

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 01:49 AM
Just my .02.

I didn't think this was a playoff year to start. I might be changing that. But if I have to chose between a wildcard and out year vs an 8-9 win season and developing a CB2. I'll take the CB2 and even higher expectations next year. Hell, if you have to... rotate CB2. Either way... at least there isn't much film showing oppsing coaches what Bennet's weaknesses are. Faggins lack of ability is documented over a 4 year period. He's a nickleback.. and that's not a knock on him. He's overachieving as a 6th round pick. I have no doubt he puts in work.. you have to if you want to stay in this league. Especially given the fact I don't think he's as physically gifted as anyone but Kris Brown on our roster.

Mike

Well that makes two of us. They were cap strapped to start with. They didn't have a two and Okoye fell into their laps. They made this decision back in April. Now they've watched the guys play and practice for five months....and WTF they are telling you ....believe it or not...is that Pettie is their best option.
Here's hoping Pettie doesn’t go down and some of you hard heads don't get to live the "why" of their decision. What I've seen the first three games is a guy playing way above his head and giving his very best. Can't ask any more from a man than that. If the resluts are not to your liking that's your problem not the Texan's. They put the very best product they could on the feild under their circumstance last off season. Crying about it for the next three months isn't going to accomplish anything. Either you trust them or you don't. I trust kubiak at his word. They didn't have the eighty million to buy one and there wasn't one after the third who was going to start for you in '07. That's the bottom line with Pettie.


http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=585300

threetoedpete
09-28-2007, 02:03 AM
once again, we drafted Bennett with our 3rd pick (after Okoye and J.Jones... who would you not want right now) and signed Jamar Fletcher...

This off-season we had no money and got a QB, RB, OL depth, re-signed Andre Johnson, DT, LB help, WR help.

What would you've done differently? I'd say spending a middle round pick and getting an ex 1st round CB via FA is doing something!

you're throwing perls befor the swine there DM. The blood is in the water and the whipping post has been lonesome since DC left town.

Er, not to bang, however...

73 Jacoby Jones WR Lane Houston Texans
123 Fred Bennett CB South Carolina Houston Texans

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft

So basically what they are calling for is a redraft ? So which CB and where do you sacrifice Okoye or J.J. for ? Well herd I just don't see it.

Some folks just gotta whine. Like Beerlover stated, they'll fix it in the '08 off season.

Trap_Star
09-30-2007, 03:36 PM
bump.

Errant Hothy
09-30-2007, 03:40 PM
bump.

Why? Did you see Fletcher playing any better then Faggins?

Cause if you did you wern't watching the same game I was.

brakos82
09-30-2007, 03:43 PM
bump.

:bat:

J-Russ
09-30-2007, 03:44 PM
^^^ How many PI was called on Fletcher, how many big plays did he give up? You definitely wasn't watching the same game as us.

Shaft75
09-30-2007, 03:46 PM
Fletcher was given his chance, and failed miserably. Petey looked pretty bad today too. I am sick and tired of our d's play on 3rd downs... How do you let Harrington find the open man. We need more blitzes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dread-Head
09-30-2007, 03:50 PM
Agreed. The man's too inconsistent

Errant Hothy
09-30-2007, 04:00 PM
Neither Fletcher not Faggins is the answer at #2 CB spot, and no amount of thing otherwise will change it.

TheIronDuke
09-30-2007, 04:05 PM
Isn't Von Hutchins a converted CB? Maybe that's our answer? I hope not.

BTW, where the hell is Boulware?

TexansSeminole
09-30-2007, 04:09 PM
Both Fletcher and Faggins played horrible. What jumped out at me today was the way Atlanta was keying on Faggins. They were attacking him consistantly. They had WRs talking crap to him on almost every passing play as well. It looks like attacking Faggins and getting in his head early is a reoccuring theme for offenses lining up against our defense. Our defense these last few years has had alot of holes and Faggins wasn't picked on much then because there were just so many things an offense do to us. Now it seems that we shut down alot of things an offense does and the one glaring weakspot we have is Faggins (and now what looks like Fletcher) so teams just go right at him.

Bottom line: We need to address this #CB position by first game of next year.

P.S. If Dunta gets hurt we are so screwed at CB. BTW, What happened to Dunta during the game? Some sort of hand problem? I see that he continued to play, but does anyone know what type of injury it is?

awtysst
09-30-2007, 04:22 PM
Is it time for Bennett to get a chance? I know he is supposed to be the theoretical long term answer, so if we are gonna get burned like this, why not have him out there learning? I mean, can he really be any worse?

Errant Hothy
09-30-2007, 04:24 PM
Is it time for Bennett to get a chance? I know he is supposed to be the theoretical long term answer, so if we are gonna get burned like this, why not have him out there learning? I mean, can he really be any worse?

If we are sure Bennett is healty, and ready, then I expect we start to see him soon.

I think they will wait till he is 100% healty. I doubt the coaching staff will take many chanceswith palyer health the rest of the year.

TexansSeminole
09-30-2007, 04:26 PM
If we are sure Bennett is healty, and ready, then I expect we start to see him soon.

I think they will wait till he is 100% healty. I doubt the coaching staff will take many chanceswith palyer health the rest of the year.

Agreed. We can't play him if he is injured. We need to heal up.

ATXtexanfan
09-30-2007, 05:35 PM
hopefully we can buy a corner next year, we have to address our secondary in free agency and the draft