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TexanFan881
09-20-2007, 09:39 AM
From ProFootballTalk

JOHNSON IS EXPECTED TO MISS FIVE WEEKS

Although the injured knee of Texans receiver Andre Johnson is scheduled to be re-examined on Friday, the current scuttlebutt is that he'll miss five weeks.

We're not saying he'll miss five weeks -- we're only saying that that's the scuttlebutt. (It's the same thing as Mort saying that his report about Eli Manning missing a month wasn't wrong because his sources truly thought he would miss a month, but in this case we're disclosing that fact before, not after, the story is proven to be wr-wr-wr-wr-bullcaacaa.)

If he misses five weeks, he'll be back for the October 28 game at San Diego.



Jacoby is really going to have to step up, and the same with Kevin Walter. With Andre we could easily win 4 of the next 5, hopefully we can still salvage without him. :(

TexansSB07
09-20-2007, 09:41 AM
Jacoby is really going to have to step up, and the same with Kevin Walter. With Andre we could easily win 4 of the next 5, hopefully we can still salvage without him. :(

If you want to know the WRONG information trust Pro Football Talk guy, I would rather trust the #1 Texans haters BSPN then PFT

HoustonFrog
09-20-2007, 09:41 AM
This is a team and personal fantasy nightmare.

real
09-20-2007, 09:42 AM
I doubt AJ is out 5 weeks.

LORK 88
09-20-2007, 09:44 AM
Pro Football Weekly = the football equivalent of the World Weekly News. They get people's attention by posting BS that catches people's attention. This is the same site that said Amobi Okoye was already being called a bust in July, take what they say not with a grain of salt, just dismiss it. He'll be back in a week or two, wait til he's re-evaluated.

Kaiser Toro
09-20-2007, 09:51 AM
Five weeks takes us to the Titans game, which is right after the Jags game. If we win without him this week I would expect him to be shut down until he is healed. If we do not win I expect him to be back by the Jags game.

Tedc
09-20-2007, 09:57 AM
What a load of BS!

Why write something without any info to back it up? Is this rag just for rumors? Is anything they write real? Are they affiliated with Western Onion?

I don't even want to waste my time with that.

Tedc
09-20-2007, 10:00 AM
With reports like that, Jerome Solomon could do well over there.

SheTexan
09-20-2007, 10:06 AM
I'll worry about AJ this time next week. We KNOW he's missing the Colts game! The rest is just speculation on the part of id*ots who want to stir the pot! Who cares what they write! I care what KUBIAK says period!! Most wedsites, and the local ragsheet, just like to express THEIR opinion, which I could care less about!

Double Barrel
09-20-2007, 10:08 AM
He's back by ATL. :howdy: ya' heard it first from DBN (Double Barrel Network)!

Shaft75
09-20-2007, 10:12 AM
Why would they be so public about his injury? Could we consider it to be something like Eli Manning's? People were saying that he was out for a month and then BAM he was out on the field last Sunday.

Think about it. He has a sprained knee with no swelling. He was walking around fine after the game. The world champs are coming into town.

Now he is going in to be re-examined on Friday. For what??? To get authorization to play maybe, I don't know, this Sunday?

He might play this weekend. I don't mean to give false hope to Texans fans or anything, but it might be a game planning ploy. Maybe we are trying to catch the Colts off guard.

Or... "Maybe I'm Craaaazzyyy..."
:yahoo:

hobie
09-20-2007, 10:12 AM
I'll worry about AJ this time next week. We KNOW he's missing the Colts game! The rest is just speculation on the part of id*ots who want to stir the pot! Who cares what they write! I care what KUBIAK says period!! Most wedsites, and the local ragsheet, just like to express THEIR opinion, which I could care less about!

Exactly..Until Kubiak comes out and announces it, the rest is nothing but trying to break the story first. They were so wrong in Manning's problem with him missing a month yet he still played and had a pretty decent game even though they lost. I guess they think that AJ's injury is usually a 5 wk. thing they think they need to say it...As long as the Texans are winning, I don't see a need to rush him back..If he misses 5 games due to the team winning and to get him back 100%, I will take it !! That means a well rested and ready to go AJ for the home stretch !!

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 10:13 AM
What a load of BS!

Why write something without any info to back it up? Is this rag just for rumors? Is anything they write real? Are they affiliated with Western Onion?

I don't even want to waste my time with that.

Hey, I actually appreciate that report.

If there is scuttlebutt out there to be had, I want to hear it. And the PFT guy really made a point of saying hey, this might be a load of crap, but this is what the gossip is. He didn't report it as fact.

Personally, I am not sure that the scuttlebutt is correct. Today is the day they are suppose to take his knee out of the immobilizing thing and see how it is feeling. Given that there was no immediate swelling, it suggests no tear, and so I would think that his return would be based on how it is feeling and not some sort of guestimate. The injury I heard that he had is one that has no specific time frame for return--that it differs from person to person.

Hervoyel
09-20-2007, 10:13 AM
He's back by ATL. :howdy: ya' heard it first from DBN (Double Barrel Network)!


Ditto. I think that these guys don't know anything and are just trying to pull in some traffic with an "over the top" non-story.

hobie
09-20-2007, 10:14 AM
He's back by ATL. :howdy: ya' heard it first from DBN (Double Barrel Network)!

Isn't that the network Casserly works for??

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 10:16 AM
Ditto. I think that these guys don't know anything and are just trying to pull in some traffic with an "over the top" non-story.

Like him or not, the PFT guy gets ton of traffic and doens't have to make up stuff. Not everything he reports turns out, but he gets lots of leads , and he has often been the first to report stuff.

It's a football gossip site. Like a lot of gossip, sometimes it turns out and sometimes it doesn't.

Marcus
09-20-2007, 10:17 AM
Five weeks takes us to the Titans game, which is right after the Jags game. If we win without him this week I would expect him to be shut down until he is healed. If we do not win I expect him to be back by the Jags game.

I have a problem with that, KT. I would expect him to be shut down until he's completely healed, no matter what. I know we need him that bad, but we don't need that bad to where he's not 100%, and at the risk of further injury.

As for the 5 weeks thing, yeah someone is pulling that out of his ass, but that aside, I have a feeling Kubiak and company is going to err on the side of caution as to when he does return. I don't expect him back for at least another month.

Shaft75
09-20-2007, 10:18 AM
Why would they be so public about his injury? Could we consider it to be something like Eli Manning's? People were saying that he was out for a month and then BAM he was out on the field last Sunday.

Think about it. He has a sprained knee with no swelling. He was walking around fine after the game. The world champs are coming into town.

Now he is going in to be re-examined on Friday. For what??? To get authorization to play maybe, I don't know, this Sunday?

He might play this weekend. I don't mean to give false hope to Texans fans or anything, but it might be a game planning ploy. Maybe we are trying to catch the Colts off guard.

Or... "Maybe I'm Craaaazzyyy..."
:yahoo:

seriously does anyone feel the same way???

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 10:22 AM
As a side note, when he first got the injury, it was announced as a PCL sprain.

Then he got the MRI, and then the Texans were non-specific about the type of injury, just calling it a knee sprain. If you look at the Manfull report, she makes that distinction by saying that they originally called it a PCL sprain.

The Boselli Rule: You can't trust anything you hear about any Texan players injury and their expected return.

Everybody pray for Andre. Yeah even you atheists and agnostics and such. Why not? You might get an answer.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 10:25 AM
From the Pittman, Houston Press article:

JCF: What is Andre’s mood like right now? Is he fairly optimistic that he’ll be able to return soon?

BP: Well, I haven’t talked to him personally, but from what I gather, it shouldn’t be a lengthy injury. Three weeks at the most, I think. But you never know. Everyone reacts differently when it comes to healing time.

link (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/2007/09/long_snaps_with_bryan_pittman_1.php)

See, GOSSIP! IS! EASY!

gtexan02
09-20-2007, 10:34 AM
The only thing Matt is missing is healing powers!

fritz145
09-20-2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks for passing the link along, TC. You're right, of course. As much as we all want the diagnosis and time frame RIGHT NOW, there's just no way to know what's going on in AJ's knee and when it will allow him to return.

If there's one thing I've learned about doctors over the years, it's that for all the great medical advancements that have been made over the years, there's still far more we don't know about the human body than what we do.

real
09-20-2007, 10:36 AM
I think he'll be back by next week. JMO.

DocBar
09-20-2007, 10:36 AM
With a sprain like this you'll get micro tearing in the ligament and the MRI will show the extent of the tearing. I'll go on record as saying it will depend on how the sub receivers looked in practice and whether or not AJ has a greatly increased chance of making the injury worse or sustaining a different injury to another part of the knee by playing this Sunday before Kubiak makes a decision. I guess we'll just have to wait til game time. If he's out Sunday and we play well on O, he might miss a couple of weeks.

Double Barrel
09-20-2007, 10:44 AM
Isn't that the network Casserly works for??

Yep, he took your old job as our head janitor! :joker:

AZwhoopr
09-20-2007, 11:26 AM
Well he's definetly out for one week as most of you know, but as for 5 weeks, I don't think so. I've had a similar sprain before and it took about 3 weeks to heal(BP also stated this). Sure, maybe his sprain is more serious, but that's my insight that I have to offer on that subject. I think our real concern going into this game vs. the Colts would be the health of other players such as Green and TJ. Any word on these two yet? If we are without green AND Aj this week, things could get ugly(unless dayne runs them over like he did last year). And I'd love to have TJ bringing that inside heat to PM too.:cool:

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 11:33 AM
Here's my write up about it:

How Many Games Will Andre Johnson Miss? (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/20/how-many-games-will-andre-johnson-miss/)

Lots of people who read PFT also read FanHouse, so I figured I try to put out there everything that we know right now so people would know what the deal is and not just go panicking through the streets shreiking 5 weeks 5 weeks aaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!

Goldensilence
09-20-2007, 11:40 AM
I am more on the idea he'll miss closer 2-3. But we all know for sure he'll be out this week and we'll learn more on friday. Personally i think Kubiak and Co will err on the side caution.

Here's hoping for the best. :fans:

Tedc
09-20-2007, 11:44 AM
If it is all gossip over there why don't they slap a "National Sports Enquirer" banner on it and sell it at grocery store checkouts?

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 12:15 PM
If it is all gossip over there why don't they slap a "National Sports Enquirer" banner on it and sell it at grocery store checkouts?

Actually, they put that information in a section called "rumor mill."

There is so much information and misinformation out there that it is hard to sort out the difference.

TexansLucky13
09-20-2007, 12:17 PM
Try five days.

gtexan02
09-20-2007, 12:36 PM
Westbrook had an MRI for a knee sprain is supposed to play this Sunday. "Knee Sprain" means nothing. its a case by case basis

Silver Oak
09-20-2007, 01:12 PM
I choose to take the "glass is half full" approach to AJ being hurt. It will give JJ or KW or someone else the chance to stand up and make some plays.

Also, Schaub has had a week to have practiced with the guys who will be on the field Sunday, so timing will have been worked on as well.

That said...get well soon AJ! I rarely break out the jerseys, but I'll be wearing my #80 Steel Blue jersey Sunday for you!

Hardcore Texan
09-20-2007, 01:17 PM
I am in the crowd of 1-2 weeks. I think there is a small glimmer of desperate hope on my part he will be back this Sunday, but that's my hope talking. I think by Atlanta maybe Miami at the latest. But hey, that's just me speculating. :)

He needs to get one of those hypobermic (or however the heck you say and spell it) chambers.

tulexan
09-20-2007, 02:03 PM
Hey, I actually appreciate that report.

If there is scuttlebutt out there to be had, I want to hear it. And the PFT guy really made a point of saying hey, this might be a load of crap, but this is what the gossip is. He didn't report it as fact.

Personally, I am not sure that the scuttlebutt is correct. Today is the day they are suppose to take his knee out of the immobilizing thing and see how it is feeling. Given that there was no immediate swelling, it suggests no tear, and so I would think that his return would be based on how it is feeling and not some sort of guestimate. The injury I heard that he had is one that has no specific time frame for return--that it differs from person to person.

Exactly. If you actually read what PFT said, is that this is what is being reported, but it could be a bunch of crap. It didn't say that he will definitely miss 5 weeks and that he has a serious injury. Eli was supposed to miss a month and didn't miss a game.

ArlingtonTexan
09-20-2007, 03:00 PM
If it is all gossip over there why don't they slap a "National Sports Enquirer" banner on it and sell it at grocery store checkouts?

Profootballtalk.com can't make it more obvious that they hear a rumor a basically just print it with little no confirmation of facts.

1) the section is called rumormill
2) they call themselves rumormongers
3) the Andre Johnson article uses schuttlebutt

Effectively, they go beyond what National Enquirier does in letting you know we are not a "real" or "legitimate" news source. ESPN, FOx etc, use "insiders" who are basically sports gossip columnist, but attempt to pawn these guys off as doing journalism. Which one do you want?

Goldensilence
09-20-2007, 03:06 PM
I am in the crowd of 1-2 weeks. I think there is a small glimmer of desperate hope on my part he will be back this Sunday, but that's my hope talking. I think by Atlanta maybe Miami at the latest. But hey, that's just me speculating. :)

He needs to get one of those hypobermic (or however the heck you say and spell it) chambers.

Hyperbolic and i was thinking that might come in useful as well.

powerfuldragon
09-20-2007, 03:10 PM
hyperbaric? a hyperbolic chamber would have a lot of exaggerated maths.

AnthonyE
09-20-2007, 04:29 PM
Pro Football Weekly = the football equivalent of the World Weekly News. They get people's attention by posting BS that catches people's attention. This is the same site that said Amobi Okoye was already being called a bust in July, take what they say not with a grain of salt, just dismiss it. He'll be back in a week or two, wait til he's re-evaluated.

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/cp/vol-02/no-03/talk/images/wwn.jpg

Sad thing about it, it works.

Shaft75
09-20-2007, 05:24 PM
Why would they be so public about his injury? Could we consider it to be something like Eli Manning's? People were saying that he was out for a month and then BAM he was out on the field last Sunday.

Think about it. He has a sprained knee with no swelling. He was walking around fine after the game. The world champs are coming into town.

Now he is going in to be re-examined on Friday. For what??? To get authorization to play maybe, I don't know, this Sunday?

He might play this weekend. I don't mean to give false hope to Texans fans or anything, but it might be a game planning ploy. Maybe we are trying to catch the Colts off guard.

Or... "Maybe I'm Craaaazzyyy..."
:yahoo:


I swear no one reads my posts sometimes...

Does anyone feel the same way about this?

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 05:30 PM
From Kubiak's presser (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3660):


(on if there’s any further information on WR Andre Johnson) “No, just that you guys know he won’t play this week. I mean, we were hoping for a miracle and we’ve still got time for one, but it doesn’t look good. You know, like I said, the good news is he’s going to be fine. The question is how long’s it going to be? Is it going to be a week, three weeks, five weeks? I don’t think we know until they kind of get him out of the thing that he’s in right now and really test him out, and the plan is to do that tomorrow.”

(on a report that says that WR Andre Johnson will miss five weeks) “Well, I think that would definitely be the worst scenario. And I’m very optimistic, especially with a guy like him who’s a really hard worker and very well-conditioned player. If anybody should make it back quicker than the doctors think that he can, it’s probably that guy. So I’m going to be on the optimistic side.”

About Ron Dayne:

(on if RB Ahman Green and RB Ron Dayne are OK) “Ahman’s fine. Ronnie, there’s a little bit of question on Ronnie. He did practice some today. He did not put on his pads with the rest of the guys, so we’ll push him tomorrow and we’ll make that decision. If not, Samkon (Gado) will go.”

(on what the question is on RB Ron Dayne) “Just got some bruised ribs, and coming out of the game just in general, beat up. Eighteen tough carries and 15 of them in the fourth quarter. But he did do some things today, he just didn’t get in the banging with everybody else.”


Why Kubiak rocks:

(on if there was a game that QB John Elway missed and Kubiak came in and won against all odds) “Every time he missed they said we had no chance. When I got a chance to play, it was probably a lot of, ‘Oh, crap.’ But that’s part of football and I think what it does is it makes everybody just reach down a little deeper. Everybody on this football team knows what kind of player we’re missing this weekend, everybody knows that and I think it just makes everybody dig a little deeper. Every coach, everybody. So when our team comes out of this, we should be a better football team. Do we have to replace a great player? You dang right we do. But it should make us all better.”

Hardcore Texan
09-20-2007, 05:43 PM
From Kubiak's presser (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3660):




About Ron Dayne:




Why Kubiak rocks:



For what Kubiak said in your last quote is why I think we have a better chance than people think, everyone will play that much harder, and maybe they drop their guard just a little. Every unit will have to play very well as a whole but it can be done.

:texflag:

BattleRedRaider
09-20-2007, 05:48 PM
All I know is, if we can beat the Colts without Andre Johnson, then he'll definitely take his time to heal.

CloakNNNdagger
09-20-2007, 07:25 PM
I have to voice my skepticism. My concern is that a Posterior Cruciate Ligament injury is not very difficult to diagnose on physical exam. Now after an MRI which is accompanied by no "report," it makes me feel that someone knows much more that is being revealed. A number of members of the board have eluded to trusting Kubiak and the front office on their statements on injury status Sorry, but following that track has not been very reliable in the the past......not just occasionally, but regularly. AJ today made a telling statement today that he will have to take it day to day............or week to week. Why would it be so difficult for someone to confirm the injury?...........If by now, team physicians don't have a definitive diagnosis, it's time to look for new physicans. "Smoke screens" aren't a good explanation for the pattern that we've seen over the years............. You just have to ask yourself how many "nebulous" injuries sustained by Texans players have ended up as lesser than than greater severity? For the answer, you can use the fingers of your non-dominant hand while using the dominant side of your brain. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=739512&postcount=127)

Kaiser Toro
09-20-2007, 07:39 PM
For the answer, you can use the fingers of your non-dominant hand while using the dominant side of your brain.

Only three things scare me in life - nuclear war, Carnies and a Dominatrix with a Cleveland Browns' tattoo.

Shaft75
09-20-2007, 07:44 PM
I swear no one reads my posts sometimes...

Does anyone feel the same way about this?

FORGET IT......................

nero THE zero
09-20-2007, 07:45 PM
I have to voice my skepticism. My concern is that a Posterior Cruciate Ligament injury is not very difficult to diagnose on physical exam. Now after an MRI which is accompanied by no "report," it makes me feel that someone knows much more that is being revealed. A number of members of the board have eluded to trusting Kubiak and the front office on their statements on injury status Sorry, but following that track has not been very reliable in the the past......not just occasionally, but regularly. AJ today made a telling statement today that he will have to take it day to day............or week to week. Why would it be so difficult for someone to confirm the injury?...........If by now, team physicians don't have a definitive diagnosis, it's time to look for new physicans. "Smoke screens" aren't a good explanation for the pattern that we've seen over the years............. You just have to ask yourself how many "nebulous" injuries sustained by Texans players have ended up as lesser than than greater severity? For the answer, you can use the fingers of your non-dominant hand while using the dominant side of your brain. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=739512&postcount=127)

I posted something very similiar on a fantasy message board Monday or Tuesday.

With the evasiveness and track record of this organization in handling serious injuries I think we have legitimate cause for concern.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 08:37 PM
I have to voice my skepticism. My concern is that a Posterior Cruciate Ligament injury is not very difficult to diagnose on physical exam. Now after an MRI which is accompanied by no "report," it makes me feel that someone knows much more that is being revealed. A number of members of the board have eluded to trusting Kubiak and the front office on their statements on injury status Sorry, but following that track has not been very reliable in the the past......not just occasionally, but regularly. AJ today made a telling statement today that he will have to take it day to day............or week to week. Why would it be so difficult for someone to confirm the injury?...........If by now, team physicians don't have a definitive diagnosis, it's time to look for new physicans. "Smoke screens" aren't a good explanation for the pattern that we've seen over the years............. You just have to ask yourself how many "nebulous" injuries sustained by Texans players have ended up as lesser than than greater severity? For the answer, you can use the fingers of your non-dominant hand while using the dominant side of your brain. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=739512&postcount=127)

They definitely aren't reporting everything.

There was the initial diagnosis of the knee as being a PCL sprain. Then they weren't specific after the MRI.

The Texans report after the MRI says good news, no swelling, but today, the Hashmarks guy (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-3-219/Late-Afternoon-Hash--Texans-Super-Bowl-Edition.html) calls the Texans training staff and is told "the swelling has gone down." Wha?

Okay. So I got curious and have been thinking about this some more. In 2005, Andre Johnson missed 3 games and was hampered for most of that season with what was talked about today in the Chronicle as a calf injury. I couldn't remember which one, so I looked it up and apparently it was his left calf (http://www.gazettenet.com/~blogger/2005/10/injuryroster-updates-for-week-5.html).

The knee that is bothering him now is his left knee (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5142029.html).

And originally, his injury was described as a strained PCL. Since then they just generically call it a sprained knee which can mean a whole lot of things.

Okay, I'm not a doctor, but here is some rememberances with some doctor questions. In 2005, I met Andre Johnson the night he came back from outta town from meeting with a doctor about his condition (the reason why this sticks with me). And he doesn't say much but at the time, I was talking with some other people and was told that his calf injury was sort of a quirky injury. That what he had was really a knee issue. That the pain he was having was in the back of the knee as it connects into the calf.

And he really tried to play through that. It messed with him throughout 2005.

And similar to the current situation, they never really identified publicly what was wrong with him other than he was having issues with his calf. And AJ's frustration with how long it took him to come back made him visit with a doctor in a different state. (He was late to the event I was at because he had just come from the airport).

I am pretty sure I am remembering right but does anyone remember the same about the nature of his 2005 injury?

And would that be similar to what a PCL strain is?

CloakNNNdagger
09-20-2007, 09:09 PM
They definitely aren't reporting everything.

There was the initial diagnosis of the knee as being a PCL sprain. Then they weren't specific after the MRI.

The Texans report after the MRI says good news, no swelling, but today, the Hashmarks guy (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-3-219/Late-Afternoon-Hash--Texans-Super-Bowl-Edition.html) calls the Texans training staff and is told "the swelling has gone down." Wha?

Okay. So I got curious and have been thinking about this some more. In 2005, Andre Johnson missed 3 games and was hampered for most of that season with what was talked about today in the Chronicle as a calf injury. I couldn't remember which one, so I looked it up and apparently it was his left calf (http://www.gazettenet.com/~blogger/2005/10/injuryroster-updates-for-week-5.html).

The knee that is bothering him now is his left knee (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5142029.html).

And originally, his injury was described as a strained PCL. Since then they just generically call it a sprained knee which can mean a whole lot of things.

Okay, I'm not a doctor, but here is some rememberances with some doctor questions. In 2005, I met Andre Johnson the night he came back from outta town from meeting with a doctor about his condition (the reason why this sticks with me). And he doesn't say much but at the time, I was talking with some other people and was told that his calf injury was sort of a quirky injury. That what he had was really a knee issue. That the pain he was having was in the back of the knee as it connects into the calf.

And he really tried to play through that. It messed with him throughout 2005.

And similar to the current situation, they never really identified publicly what was wrong with him other than he was having issues with his calf. And AJ's frustration with how long it took him to come back made him visit with a doctor in a different state. (He was late to the event I was at because he had just come from the airport).

I am pretty sure I am remembering right but does anyone remember the same about the nature of his 2005 injury?

And would that be similar to what a PCL strain is?


TC,

Classically, the knee is stabilized by the 2 side (collateral) ligaments and a front (anterior cruciate ACL) ligament and back (posterior cruciate PCL) ligament. The cruciate ligaments connect the lower portion of the thigh (femur) bone with to the upper surface of the shin (tibia) bone, each crossing the knee joint (thus the name cruciate).

The PCL functions mainly in preventing the tibia from traveling backwards on the femur, known as posterior drawer sign. PCL tears are graded I- III with III being the worst. These grades are classified by the amount of backward tibial movement observed when the knee is bent at 90 degrees. Mild injury does not cause instability. More serious injury leads to knee instability with the shin bone having a tendency to slide backwards when the knee is bent at 90 degrees...............The main pain secondary to this injury is felt in the CALF. Once injured the PCL NEVER completely heals and must be doubly protected by strengthening of the quadracep, hamstring and calf muscles. Repeated injuries can lead to the need for surgical intervention.

Señor Stan
09-20-2007, 09:57 PM
I swear no one reads my posts sometimes...

Does anyone feel the same way about this?

Yeah, I agree.

No one reads your posts sometimes.

kcdoubleeagle
09-20-2007, 10:08 PM
TC,

Classically, the knee is stabilized by the 2 side (collateral) ligaments and a front (anterior cruciate ACL) ligament and back (posterior cruciate PCL) ligament. The cruciate ligaments connect the lower portion of the thigh (femur) bone with to the upper surface of the shin (tibia) bone, each crossing the knee joint (thus the name cruciate).

The PCL functions mainly in preventing the tibia from traveling backwards on the femur, known as posterior drawer sign. PCL tears are graded I- III with III being the worst. These grades are classified by the amount of backward tibial movement observed when the knee is bent at 90 degrees. Mild injury does not cause instability. More serious injury leads to knee instability with the shin bone having a tendency to slide backwards when the knee is bent at 90 degrees...............The main pain secondary to this injury is felt in the CALF. Once injured the PCL NEVER completely heals and must be doubly protected by strengthening of the quadracep, hamstring and calf muscles. Repeated injuries can lead to the need for surgical intervention.


GO MARIO WILLIAMS!!!! Oh..sorry wrong thread.....I guess all this genius talk is getting me confused.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2007, 10:10 PM
TC,

Classically, the knee is stabilized by the 2 side (collateral) ligaments and a front (anterior cruciate ACL) ligament and back (posterior cruciate PCL) ligament. The cruciate ligaments connect the lower portion of the thigh (femur) bone with to the upper surface of the shin (tibia) bone, each crossing the knee joint (thus the name cruciate).

The PCL functions mainly in preventing the tibia from traveling backwards on the femur, known as posterior drawer sign. PCL tears are graded I- III with III being the worst. These grades are classified by the amount of backward tibial movement observed when the knee is bent at 90 degrees. Mild injury does not cause instability. More serious injury leads to knee instability with the shin bone having a tendency to slide backwards when the knee is bent at 90 degrees...............The main pain secondary to this injury is felt in the CALF. Once injured the PCL NEVER completely heals and must be doubly protected by strengthening of the quadracep, hamstring and calf muscles. Repeated injuries can lead to the need for surgical intervention.

Oooh. So it could be possibly the same thing as 2005? And chronic.

Sigh.

AnthonyE
09-20-2007, 10:30 PM
FORGET IT......................

LMFAO, it happens to everyone.

I actually was conjuring up the same suspicion the other day. Why else would Andre himself say he would'nt be ready? If I were a Texans player, I'd say. "If coach says I can play, I'll play." He didn't even give himself two days. That's what I find fishy. And actually, I hope so fishy that it's a Landry's Coupon Give-A-Way this Sunday.

Now, they have declared him "OUT" on the ticker on the bottom of NFLN. So, I don't know.

MEGA SWATT
09-21-2007, 01:31 AM
I am in the crowd of 1-2 weeks. I think there is a small glimmer of desperate hope on my part he will be back this Sunday, but that's my hope talking. I think by Atlanta maybe Miami at the latest. But hey, that's just me speculating. :)

He needs to get one of those hypobermic (or however the heck you say and spell it) chambers.


2 week out club-member here:d:

Marcus
09-21-2007, 01:49 AM
I think something has been fishy going back to Monday when they didn't reveal the results of the MRI.

MRIs are the king kong of diagnostic tests. They, except in the most extreme cases, tell whether it is, or is not.

Now, I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, or why they have decided not to tell the whole story, but Cloak has pointed out the history of this team doing this.

There hasn't been a day that has gone by where a statement or comment hasn't been made that 'preps' for future bad news.

sakebomb
09-21-2007, 06:15 AM
Well if he is out five weeks, then he will be back just in time for us to make our push for the playoffs. I hope they don't rush him back. I think we can go 3-2 with out him. That would put us at 5-2 with our best player coming back from injury. I'll take that.

gtexan02
09-21-2007, 10:17 AM
Its easy to get all worked up about this kind of thing, but the reality is there is no reason to. Yet.

When cloack mentioned that PCL injuries never "fully" heal, thats a little misleading and is going to cause a lot of chicken little reactions.

A non-surgerical requiring injury does not cause knee instability, and therefore while the PCL may not recover to its original strength, muscle strengthening and rehabilition over both short and long term allows for a "100%" recovery. It may not be exactly the same, but functionally it works.

Also, don't think of this injury as chronic. His 2005 injury was never fully diagnosed. A LOT of injuries result in calf pain, including direct calf injuries. He played the entire 2006 season at 100% (103 catches, thats a lot of tackles). If he was suffering from a chronic condition, we would have noticed some pain or limping from him after being hit in 2006.

Furthermore, he took a SHOT in the Panthers game. Its not like he was running, planted, and then came up limp. He landed from catching, planted his feet, and then got completely knocked. If you heard the interviews, everyone saw his knee bend in a non-natural way. If he had suffered a previous PCL injury, the current injury may have been much more serious.

Finally, players injure their knees all the time. Many, many players with NO history of knee injuries can tear their ACL just by taking an awkward step. Look at Lawson just a few days ago.

The fact is, conditioning is the only way to help prevent injuries, as football is a violent sport. AJ's condition is not "chronic" in the way that a lot of players have "chronic" knee problems. He is probably just as likely as anyone else of developing an injury. He played all of 2006 injury free, and so I would hardly get all worked up. Yet

Shaft75
09-21-2007, 10:58 AM
Yeah, I agree.

No one reads your posts sometimes.

LOL! Good one...

I can take solice in the fact that you read it though.

Shaft75
09-21-2007, 11:04 AM
LMFAO, it happens to everyone.

I actually was conjuring up the same suspicion the other day. Why else would Andre himself say he would'nt be ready? If I were a Texans player, I'd say. "If coach says I can play, I'll play." He didn't even give himself two days. That's what I find fishy. And actually, I hope so fishy that it's a Landry's Coupon Give-A-Way this Sunday.

Now, they have declared him "OUT" on the ticker on the bottom of NFLN. So, I don't know.

Someone answered my question... AMEN!!!

Between doctor cloaknnndagger and TC my posts were lost in the shuffle. I would repost and then bam, texans_chic spits out another 5 paragraph post.

However, I have just had this weird feeling that they are making it look worse than it really is. I mean, how tough is it to play on a sprain? I played three years of varsity football without an ACL in my right knee.

gtexan02
09-21-2007, 11:11 AM
Someone answered my question... AMEN!!!

Between doctor cloaknnndagger and TC my posts were lost in the shuffle. I would repost and then bam, texans_chic spits out another 5 paragraph post.

However, I have just had this weird feeling that they are making it look worse than it really is. I mean, how tough is it to play on a sprain? I played three years of varsity football without an ACL in my right knee.

Does anyone else hear something?



Just kidding. It is really easy to get lost in the shuffle in here, as some posters seem to only read each others messages. I guess clicks form even on internet messageboards.

As to your comment about the ACL, I think you'll find that 0% of NFL players will risk permanent damage to play an extra game. Playing with no ACL is no only dangerous, but frankly, sort of stupid. You could end up SERIOUSLY injured, and when your career rests on the health of your knees, you don't risk millions in my opinion

Marcus
09-21-2007, 11:42 AM
I would just like to know what were the results of the MRI, that's all. A radiologist examines the scans, and types a report based upon his findings. I've had an MRI with contrast done recently. That is the procedure.

MRI results are pretty cut and dried, one way or the other. The Texans are not revealing what the results were.

Why?

Shaft75
09-21-2007, 11:51 AM
Playing with no ACL is no only dangerous, but frankly, sort of stupid. You could end up SERIOUSLY injured, and when your career rests on the health of your knees, you don't risk millions in my opinion

Do you know anyone that would represent me in a malpractice suit against my old ortho?

You say it's stupid, yet the doctor that I say at St. Luke's in Houston told me that I could do no more harm to my knee. He basically gave me the option of surgery immediately or playing with surgery later. I got fitted for a Donjoy and hit the field.

Have you ever had a knee surgery or did you play football in high school? Let me know why you think that playing on a torn ACL can seriously injure me.

Marcus
09-21-2007, 12:04 PM
Do you know anyone that would represent me in a malpractice suit against my old ortho?

You say it's stupid, yet the doctor that I say at St. Luke's in Houston told me that I could do no more harm to my knee. He basically gave me the option of surgery immediately or playing with surgery later. I got fitted for a Donjoy and hit the field.

Have you ever had a knee surgery or did you play football in high school? Let me know why you think that playing on a torn ACL can seriously injure me.

Shaft, you need to get a second opinion. I'm no doctor, but a torn ACL is an unstable knee. You don't want a bone on bone condtion, else you be looking at knee replacement later on in your life, and those are no fun.

False Start
09-21-2007, 12:06 PM
I really hope Andre can make it back soon . Five weeks is a long time in the NFL . Maybe this will be the beginning of the Jacoby Era .

nero THE zero
09-21-2007, 12:10 PM
TC,

Classically, the knee is stabilized by the 2 side (collateral) ligaments and a front (anterior cruciate ACL) ligament and back (posterior cruciate PCL) ligament. The cruciate ligaments connect the lower portion of the thigh (femur) bone with to the upper surface of the shin (tibia) bone, each crossing the knee joint (thus the name cruciate).

The PCL functions mainly in preventing the tibia from traveling backwards on the femur, known as posterior drawer sign. PCL tears are graded I- III with III being the worst. These grades are classified by the amount of backward tibial movement observed when the knee is bent at 90 degrees. Mild injury does not cause instability. More serious injury leads to knee instability with the shin bone having a tendency to slide backwards when the knee is bent at 90 degrees...............The main pain secondary to this injury is felt in the CALF. Once injured the PCL NEVER completely heals and must be doubly protected by strengthening of the quadracep, hamstring and calf muscles. Repeated injuries can lead to the need for surgical intervention.

Could you expound on the benefits of surgery? More specifically, how long would it take to rehab and would the knee be 100% afterward?

Shaft75
09-21-2007, 12:21 PM
CloakNNNdagger,

How can you check yourself to see if the shin slides backwards at 90 degrees? My knee(right) still buckles a little, but it seems like the shin slides forward and a little to the left when I flex my quad. A little off topic but an answer would be helpful. Thanks.

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2007, 12:30 PM
Its easy to get all worked up about this kind of thing, but the reality is there is no reason to. Yet.

When cloack mentioned that PCL injuries never "fully" heal, thats a little misleading and is going to cause a lot of chicken little reactions.

A non-surgerical requiring injury does not cause knee instability, and therefore while the PCL may not recover to its original strength, muscle strengthening and rehabilition over both short and long term allows for a "100%" recovery. It may not be exactly the same, but functionally it works.

Also, don't think of this injury as chronic. His 2005 injury was never fully diagnosed. A LOT of injuries result in calf pain, including direct calf injuries. He played the entire 2006 season at 100% (103 catches, thats a lot of tackles). If he was suffering from a chronic condition, we would have noticed some pain or limping from him after being hit in 2006.

Furthermore, he took a SHOT in the Panthers game. Its not like he was running, planted, and then came up limp. He landed from catching, planted his feet, and then got completely knocked. If you heard the interviews, everyone saw his knee bend in a non-natural way. If he had suffered a previous PCL injury, the current injury may have been much more serious.

Finally, players injure their knees all the time. Many, many players with NO history of knee injuries can tear their ACL just by taking an awkward step. Look at Lawson just a few days ago.

The fact is, conditioning is the only way to help prevent injuries, as football is a violent sport. AJ's condition is not "chronic" in the way that a lot of players have "chronic" knee problems. He is probably just as likely as anyone else of developing an injury. He played all of 2006 injury free, and so I would hardly get all worked up. Yet


A "chicken little" response was not what I intended. But "chronic" is not what I implied............."recurrent" is what I was referring to. Once a ligament is injured, as you and I have both pointed out, there is usually the ability to "compensate" with muscle strengthening, if the injury is not severe. However, reinjury is more likely in a case like this (with a front on hit on the tibia while the knee is bent). "Compensation" then becomes more difficult........and the probability of developing "chronic" related problems are likewise increased. Having played a season at "100 %" in no way rules out likelihood of recurrence, and in no way is surprising, or minimizes the situation.

Meanwhile, all the above are irrelevant to the fact that the Texans know what the injury is......and have a good idea of what a realistic prognosis is............and are evidently concealing pertinent information ("His 2005 injury was never fully diagnosed"---right:shades:), whether good or bad..............and, yes, excuse me for using the word "concealing," but I feel that is an appropriate word for the situation as it stands.

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2007, 12:47 PM
CloakNNNdagger,

How can you check yourself to see if the shin slides backwards at 90 degrees? My knee(right) still buckles a little, but it seems like the shin slides forward and a little to the left when I flex my quad. A little off topic but an answer would be helpful. Thanks.


You don't need an attorney, you need a well-trained orthopedic surgeon to re-evaluate you condition. Your above findings are totally consistent with lack of the support of an anterior cruciate ligament. This ligament limits the extent of the tibia moving forward on the femur (just like the posterior cruciate ligament limits the tibia moving backward on the femur). I have no idea why you received the advise to continue your football activities under the circumstances. But I do know that with the instability you are describing, in time left untreated may cause enough irreversible degenerative changes (if you haven't already) that knee replacement may need to be entertained. At minimum, you need to find out at least if ACL repair is indicated.........and NOW rather that later.

Good luck

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2007, 01:04 PM
Could you expound on the benefits of surgery? More specifically, how long would it take to rehab and would the knee be 100% afterward?

Hard question..........in that if there is relatively minor "collateral" cartilage damage from the acute injury..........a scope and rehab..........around 2 months to be relatively functional.........3-4 months back to preop perfomance
(remember, without all the info on the injury, tough to pin down)

If actual repair of the ligament, all bets are off..............6 months of rehab then straight line running until muscles extra supportive (~80% normal strength)..........then lateral running andcutting is allowed. Rule of thumb>>>>>>>> 1/2 of patients can return at the same level, 1/3 can return at a lower level, and one sixth cannot return at all.

Texans_Chick
09-25-2007, 03:30 PM
A "chicken little" response was not what I intended. But "chronic" is not what I implied............."recurrent" is what I was referring to. Once a ligament is injured, as you and I have both pointed out, there is usually the ability to "compensate" with muscle strengthening, if the injury is not severe. However, reinjury is more likely in a case like this (with a front on hit on the tibia while the knee is bent). "Compensation" then becomes more difficult........and the probability of developing "chronic" related problems are likewise increased. Having played a season at "100 %" in no way rules out likelihood of recurrence, and in no way is surprising, or minimizes the situation.

Meanwhile, all the above are irrelevant to the fact that the Texans know what the injury is......and have a good idea of what a realistic prognosis is............and are evidently concealing pertinent information ("His 2005 injury was never fully diagnosed"---right:shades:), whether good or bad..............and, yes, excuse me for using the word "concealing," but I feel that is an appropriate word for the situation as it stands.

Maybe I missed it, but today's paper is the first time that I've read that he has both a strained PCL and MCL. (Was this reported before?) Does this change the time table of him coming back any? The maximum time they've suggested is 5 weeks, but making noise like he is so well conditioned he could be back sooner.

Specnatz
09-25-2007, 03:31 PM
Maybe I missed it, but today's paper is the first time that I've read that he has both a strained PCL and MCL. (Was this reported before?) Does this change the time table of him coming back any? The maximum time they've suggested is 5 weeks, but making noise like he is so well conditioned he could be back sooner.

No this is the first I have heard or seen anything about both being sprained.

Texans_Chick
09-25-2007, 04:09 PM
Okay, to be clear, this is what the paper said today regarding AJ (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5161803.html):

Johnson will not return this week, either. Sunday was the first time he was allowed to bend his knee since suffering the sprain Sept. 16 against the Carolina Panthers.

Johnson sprained the posterior cruciate ligament and medial collateral ligament in his left knee, and must wait until they both heal.

"It's like I'm learning to walk normally again," Johnson said. "I've been in a brace for the whole week. Now, I have slack in my brace where I can bend my knee."

Five weeks was the outside amount of time that they said last week. They didn't reveal the PCL/MCL thing last week, they barely mentioned the PCL originally.

hmmmm.

Double Barrel
09-25-2007, 04:17 PM
bummer. Sounds like it might be at least a couple of more weeks before AJ is up to playing.

Malloy
09-25-2007, 04:20 PM
Pup ?

The Pencil Neck
09-25-2007, 04:21 PM
Pup ?

Too late for that.

Vinny
09-25-2007, 04:23 PM
PFT wasn't too far off on their 5 weeks out speculation.

Andrew6
09-25-2007, 04:28 PM
anyone else getting a sick feeling about this?

Tailgate
09-25-2007, 04:32 PM
anyone else getting a sick feeling about this?

I have a sick feeling about the rest of our season now. If its this bad this early...

Malloy
09-25-2007, 04:40 PM
Too late for that.

You're right, I missed that detail :)

Fox
09-25-2007, 05:35 PM
I think some of you conspiracy theorists are jumping the gun a tad early on this one. The Texans are one of the most media friendly teams in the league, and provide their fans with great access to the goings on within the organization. Perhaps they haven't released a detailed medical report on Andre's knee because: 1. It would be a bunch of meaningless medical jargon to most Texans fans. 2. I can't see how it would be helpful to the franchise, they obviously know the diagnosis and telling us won't make it get better any faster. And 3. Does Doctor - Patient confidentiality come into play under any of these circumstances? If a player comes down with a serious case of syphilis and has to miss a game, are you going to demand them to release a statement that said player had a little too much fun in Vegas and has a bad case of the syph?

Andre sprained his knee, he should be back in a couple weeks. Other than satisfying your curiosity, what good is it going to do for them to tell us to what degree the ligament was strained and other medical minutia?

Double Barrel
09-25-2007, 05:41 PM
I have a sick feeling about the rest of our season now. If its this bad this early...

'eh, that's football. While it is certainly a major blow to lose AJ for any length of time, the fact remains that we have 13 games left in the season and there is no reason to throw in the towel now. Schaub will get the ball to his receivers, and we just have hope that they catch them. (And, of course, a running game would help.)

amazingandre
09-25-2007, 05:44 PM
not only does this suck about aj but now we dont have jj for a while lol....we are hurting but shoud be fine...our defense is still playin great ball right now

Lucky
09-25-2007, 05:55 PM
I think some of you conspiracy theorists are jumping the gun a tad early on this one. The Texans are one of the most media friendly teams in the league, and provide their fans with great access to the goings on within the organization.
Are you familiar with the Texans history on disclosing the medical condition of Tony Boselli? Domanick Davis/Williams? I don't think you have to be from Area 51 to point out the Texans poor record in this regard. They've earned the speculation here.

Having said that, I've sprained my MCL before. My dog (rest his soul) pulled me down a hill chasing a ball. Hey, he was a big dog. I thought I would need surgery, but I was in a brace for about 2 weeks. My knee was very stiff initially, but it loosed up nicely in a couple of days. I felt very fortunate. If the doctors have already moved AJ to a looser brace, that sounds like good news to me. I'm sure he'd like to be back by the Miami game.

Fox
09-25-2007, 06:03 PM
Are you familiar with the Texans history on disclosing the medical condition of Tony Boselli? Domanick Davis/Williams? I don't think you have to be from Area 51 to point out the Texans poor record in this regard. They've earned the speculation here.

Having said that, I've sprained my MCL before. My dog (rest his soul) pulled me down a hill chasing a ball. Hey, he was a big dog. I thought I would need surgery, but I was in a brace for about 2 weeks. My knee was very stiff initially, but it loosed up nicely in a couple of days. I felt very fortunate. If the doctors have already moved AJ to a looser brace, that sounds like good news to me. I'm sure he'd like to be back by the Miami game.

Yea I'm aware of the situation with Boselli and Domanick Williams. Then again, coaches and PR rep's aren't exactly doctors so you have to take their medical prognoses with a grain of salt. I'm not saying don't be skeptical about the date of Andre's return, I'm asking why be so critical of the Texans organization for not faxing us all a copy of Andre's MRI?