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beerlover
09-18-2007, 12:56 PM
this past week was satisfying beyond anyones wildest dreams & we have david carr to thank. all the negative pub, the unleashing of pent up anger & frustration released, don't we all feel a whole lot better now? thanks david

if not for David Carr the Texans would not have still been selecting 1st overall 5 years latter, hence no Mario Williams. thanks david

if not for David Carr Andre Johnson would have already been injured as teams looked for ways to knock him out of the game, as it was they were happy to leave him in double coverage with little consequence towards the outcome of the game. thanks david

if not for David Carr Matt Schaub would be the starting QB for the Atlanta Falcons. he would not be a Texan tearing holes in defenses like an opener on a can of tuna. thanks david

if not for David Carr the braintrust of Kubiak/Smith would not have focused extra emphasis on the offensive line to insure the QB is protected in a scheme that releases the ball in 1001, 1002, 1003, thanks david

so the next time y'all go bashing david carr stop yourself & think about how the Texans got to here & why? you'll be pleasently surprised :)

Dread-Head
09-18-2007, 01:01 PM
I don't care what anyone says. I still like David Carr. He's class act who became the gun-shy scapegoat for a lacklustre offensive line, a mediocre coach and a pathetic GM. Quit bashing the guy already he's moved on. BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.

TexansLucky13
09-18-2007, 01:02 PM
David took a lot for this team. People do need to give him some respect.

infantrycak
09-18-2007, 01:04 PM
BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


Top left of the forum is a New Thread button.

Texan_Bill
09-18-2007, 01:07 PM
I don't care what anyone says. I still like David Carr. He's class act who became the gun-shy scapegoat for a lacklustre offensive line, a mediocre coach and a pathetic GM. Quit bashing the guy already he's moved on. BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


DH.. where ya been man?? Japan??

By the way - go into whatever forum you want to start the new thread in and look at the top left corner. It kinda looks like a Texas Flag, but says "New Thread"

santo
09-18-2007, 01:09 PM
....BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


DH.. where ya been man?? Japan??

By the way - go into whatever forum you want to start the new thread in and look at the top left corner. It kinda looks like a Texas Flag, but says "New Thread"



http://home.austin.rr.com/khari/images/images/buttons/newthread.gif

Dread-Head
09-18-2007, 01:10 PM
DH.. where ya been man?? Japan??

By the way - go into whatever forum you want to start the new thread in and look at the top left corner. It kinda looks like a Texas Flag, but says "New Thread"

...the small buxom Japanese one and I are currently estranged. We may work out our differences...we may not. She hit me with more drama than Julliard.

TexansLucky13
09-18-2007, 01:16 PM
http://home.austin.rr.com/khari/images/images/buttons/newthread.gif

I'm clickin that button you posted but it aint workin

:tease:

hollywood_texan
09-18-2007, 01:16 PM
BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


You sound like Carr reading defenses!

You are priceless.

I hope you hang around because I am sure I will find it very amusing.

HOU-TEX
09-18-2007, 01:18 PM
I don't care what anyone says. I still like David Carr. He's class act who became the gun-shy scapegoat for a lacklustre offensive line, a mediocre coach and a pathetic GM. Quit bashing the guy already he's moved on. BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


I can see a Second Honeymoon rant coming real soon.:user:

Pantherstang84
09-18-2007, 01:20 PM
I can see a Second Honeymoon rant coming real soon.:user:

In 5...4...3...2...

2BCF
09-18-2007, 01:26 PM
David took a lot for this team. People do need to give him some respect.


LOL

Yep, he took our time, money and dreams for 5 long years.

Good Riddance.


I believe this is the site you and Dread are looking for:
http://www.panthers.com/home/

Double Barrel
09-18-2007, 02:18 PM
David took a lot for this team. People do need to give him some respect.

Respect? For what? He got paid. That's all that matters to him, the money, but not gaining our respect. I doubt he gives a rat's behind what Houston fans think of him.

He took a lot from this team, too. If he can admit now that he didn't want to be here, then why sign an $8 million extension? He openly admits that he stopped having fun years ago. So it's not love of the game, not be a champion or lead a new franchise to a winning season. It's about the money.

It was never his fault that he failed. Never once did he accept full responsibility for his play. And guess what? It's now obvious that it wasn't the line's fault, either. So it's nobody's fault that he's the Happy Backup.

iiwii.

Respect is earned, IMO. As a human being, I afford him the respect that I give any good person.

But as a football player, we owe him nothing, the least of all our respect.

HOU-TEX
09-18-2007, 02:45 PM
Respect? For what? He got paid. That's all that matters to him, the money, but not gaining our respect. I doubt he gives a rat's behind what Houston fans think of him.

He took a lot from this team, too. If he can admit now that he didn't want to be here, then why sign an $8 million extension? He openly admits that he stopped having fun years ago. So it's not love of the game, not be a champion or lead a new franchise to a winning season. It's about the money.

It was never his fault that he failed. Never once did he accept full responsibility for his play. And guess what? It's now obvious that it wasn't the line's fault, either. So it's nobody's fault that he's the Happy Backup.

iiwii.

Respect is earned, IMO. As a human being, I afford him the respect that I give any good person.

But as a football player, we owe him nothing, the least of all our respect.


I'm going to 2nd this.:specnatz:

By the way, what does iiwii mean?

bpe3
09-18-2007, 02:48 PM
Respect David Carr??? Never. Stop blaming his shortcomings on the rest of the team. He had five years to show EVEN A FLASH of brilliance and he showed us NOTHING. Good riddance. Take your millions and get lost, Carr. Don't let the gates of Reliant Park hit you on the way out.

If anyone needs a primer on how David Carr can turn an EASY Texans first down into a six point score by the Raiders defense, click here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0

bpe3

Double Barrel
09-18-2007, 02:55 PM
By the way, what does iiwii mean?

It is what it is. :cowboy1:

Dan B.
09-18-2007, 02:55 PM
iiwii = it is what it is. In this case, Carr is who he is, and it's nobody's fault.

My 2c on Carr. He is exactly where he deserves to be. A backup. He played his way there. Every team in the NFL had a chance to sign him and make him a starter. None did so, so that shows you how the NFL percieves his talent. He wasn't THE problem with Houston, obviously. The defense has completely remade itself, particularly up front, and Green is a far better option than Carr had the last few years when he was REALLY bad. Carr is simply not a good quarterback though, and apparently there's not a team in the NFL that would argue.

Texan Asylum
09-18-2007, 03:05 PM
iiwii = it is what it is. In this case, Carr is who he is, and it's nobody's fault.

My 2c on Carr. He is exactly where he deserves to be. A backup. He played his way there. Every team in the NFL had a chance to sign him and make him a starter. None did so, so that shows you how the NFL percieves his talent. He wasn't THE problem with Houston, obviously. The defense has completely remade itself, particularly up front, and Green is a far better option than Carr had the last few years when he was REALLY bad. Carr is simply not a good quarterback though, and apparently there's not a team in the NFL that would argue.


IMO, I think Carr's problem is that under pressure, he just couldn't see the field and make a determination of what to do under pressure. In college, you play against comparative players on average, with the occasional exception regarding NFL caliber players. In the NFL, you're playing against the college's 'cream of the crop'. The level of play is stepped up dramatically, and the transition needed to make those judgment calls is ramped up dramatically. I don't think he had it in him to play at this level.

Again, all this is of my opinion...

HOU-TEX
09-18-2007, 03:08 PM
It is what it is. :cowboy1:

Ah, thanks:user:

TexansLucky13
09-18-2007, 03:18 PM
LOL

Yep, he took our time, money and dreams for 5 long years.

Good Riddance.


I believe this is the site you and Dread are looking for:
http://www.panthers.com/home/

I love the Texans. If David was not the fit, then he wasn't the fit. Do not ever attempt to make me look like the kind of person who would bail on my team because of one player. EVER.

Respect? For what? He got paid. That's all that matters to him, the money, but not gaining our respect. I doubt he gives a rat's behind what Houston fans think of him.

He took a lot from this team, too. If he can admit now that he didn't want to be here, then why sign an $8 million extension? He openly admits that he stopped having fun years ago. So it's not love of the game, not be a champion or lead a new franchise to a winning season. It's about the money.

It was never his fault that he failed. Never once did he accept full responsibility for his play. And guess what? It's now obvious that it wasn't the line's fault, either. So it's nobody's fault that he's the Happy Backup.

iiwii.

Respect is earned, IMO. As a human being, I afford him the respect that I give any good person.

But as a football player, we owe him nothing, the least of all our respect.

Whatever, DB. I think you have been drinking in the anti-Carr sentiment a bit too much for your own good. I am not defending him in saying that he was a good player, but I am saying that he was a Texan, nonetheless. I don't think he was "doing it just for money", considering the whipping he took. Sure, last year could have been about money, but not the first few years. The fact is we DID have a dismal Offensive line, and he DID get his a** handed to him.

David Carr is the product of this franchise, just like the franchise was a product of him. We have moved on now, and that is what is important. You don't see me lurking around Carr threads defending him anymore (with this one being a rare exception).

the wonger need food
09-18-2007, 03:25 PM
I don't care what anyone says. I still like David Carr. He's class act who became the gun-shy scapegoat for a lacklustre offensive line, a mediocre coach and a pathetic GM. Quit bashing the guy already he's moved on. BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


Hello Davie Carr apologist. Thanks for your weak take and lame excuses for Mickey Carr....

http://a301.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/m_64767a0c21da0843055c8c74de8d6c34.jpg


Dave Carr's failures were due to his own incompetence. You obviously haven't watched a Texans game this season and seen Matt Schaub perform behind the same exact offensive line. And his coach and GM are the same as they were last year when he was absolutely miserable as an NFL QB. Can you come up with any other excuses because these just don't hold water.

Shaft75
09-18-2007, 03:38 PM
Why was this thread created?

We beat the Panthers and Carr never touched the field. We also have a qb that can torch other NFL teams.

So, in the wise words of Len Pasquarelli... Let's move on, or move out... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGg9oQth0q8)

DocBar
09-18-2007, 03:40 PM
After the emotional and monetary investment I've made in this team, I feel I can bash Carr all I want. In short order, we've gone from laughingstock to respectable with minimal offensive changes. Carr couldn't read a defense when he was coming up to the line, much less after he was under pressure. The dude is exactly that.. a DUDE. That ain't a compliment where I come from. He can lay back and goldbrick his way to more millions while letting someone else shoulder the burden of leading a team and earning their paycheck.
:bat:

hollywood_texan
09-18-2007, 04:03 PM
After the emotional and monetary investment I've made in this team, I feel I can bash Carr all I want.

My thoughts exactly!

Texan_Bill
09-18-2007, 04:15 PM
...the small buxom Japanese one and I are currently estranged. We may work out our differences...we may not. She hit me with more drama than Julliard.

Dang dude, Sorry to hear that!! Catch me up when you can!!

Double Barrel
09-18-2007, 04:15 PM
Whatever, DB. I think you have been drinking in the anti-Carr sentiment a bit too much for your own good. I am not defending him in saying that he was a good player, but I am saying that he was a Texan, nonetheless. I don't think he was "doing it just for money", considering the whipping he took. Sure, last year could have been about money, but not the first few years. The fact is we DID have a dismal Offensive line, and he DID get his a** handed to him.

David Carr is the product of this franchise, just like the franchise was a product of him. We have moved on now, and that is what is important. You don't see me lurking around Carr threads defending him anymore (with this one being a rare exception).

"anti-Carr sentiment" ...hmmmmm...I think FIVE seasons and 70+ starts gives me all the insight I need about David Carr. I certainly don't need to read anyone else's takes to form MY OWN OPINION.

"fact is we DID have a dismal Offensive line"

THREE - count them - of our linemen were on the team in 2002. Does that register at all with you? Can you see past your mancrush to comprehend that our line did not change, yet it is vastly improved in front of other QBs? Heck, even Rosenfels and Banks looked good behind a line that Carr got sacked in record numbers.

What changed?! Can you please tell me? Because I don't understand your perspective, much less make much sense of it.

"David Carr is the product of this franchise, just like the franchise was a product of him." - by the same token, the first five LOSING seasons were a product of David Carr. It is hand in Mickey Mouse glove. Sure, it's a team sport, but there is little doubt that some positions hold more influence and sway than others. The QB position is important because it is one of those positions. It requires a lot more than just football skills, too.

The fact is that Carr is a dismal QB. I can argue with message board poster, or just understand that 31 other teams did not want to sign him as a starter. Hmmmm, who has more clout? :um:

I'm not doggin' you or calling you out. But, to say that we have to respect him as a football player because he was a Houston Texan is absurd, IMO. He did nothing to earn the respect of the fans or his teammates.

The emperor has no clothes and David Carr is a big, fat bust. The FO admitted as much by cutting him less than a year of signing him to an extension.

After the emotional and monetary investment I've made in this team, I feel I can bash Carr all I want. In short order, we've gone from laughingstock to respectable with minimal offensive changes. Carr couldn't read a defense when he was coming up to the line, much less after he was under pressure. The dude is exactly that.. a DUDE. That ain't a compliment where I come from. He can lay back and goldbrick his way to more millions while letting someone else shoulder the burden of leading a team and earning their paycheck.
:bat:

Word. :howdy:

bah007
09-18-2007, 06:58 PM
"anti-Carr sentiment" ...hmmmmm...I think FIVE seasons and 70+ starts gives me all the insight I need about David Carr. I certainly don't need to read anyone else's takes to form MY OWN OPINION.

How dare you state your own opinion!

This is a message board for cryin out loud.

TexansLucky13
09-18-2007, 07:19 PM
"anti-Carr sentiment" ...hmmmmm...I think FIVE seasons and 70+ starts gives me all the insight I need about David Carr. I certainly don't need to read anyone else's takes to form MY OWN OPINION.

"fact is we DID have a dismal Offensive line"

THREE - count them - of our linemen were on the team in 2002. Does that register at all with you? Can you see past your mancrush to comprehend that our line did not change, yet it is vastly improved in front of other QBs? Heck, even Rosenfels and Banks looked good behind a line that Carr got sacked in record numbers.

What changed?! Can you please tell me? Because I don't understand your perspective, much less make much sense of it.

"David Carr is the product of this franchise, just like the franchise was a product of him." - by the same token, the first five LOSING seasons were a product of David Carr. It is hand in Mickey Mouse glove. Sure, it's a team sport, but there is little doubt that some positions hold more influence and sway than others. The QB position is important because it is one of those positions. It requires a lot more than just football skills, too.

The fact is that Carr is a dismal QB. I can argue with message board poster, or just understand that 31 other teams did not want to sign him as a starter. Hmmmm, who has more clout? :um:

I'm not doggin' you or calling you out. But, to say that we have to respect him as a football player because he was a Houston Texan is absurd, IMO. He did nothing to earn the respect of the fans or his teammates.

The emperor has no clothes and David Carr is a big, fat bust. The FO admitted as much by cutting him less than a year of signing him to an extension.



Word. :howdy:

Are you seriously going to sit here and say that we had a good offensive line, and that David Carr was the problem all along? The fact that three of the starters are still here means absolutely nothing.

Two of the people you are referring to are Weary and Pitts. I have never had a problem with those guys. They are good guards. The fact is, we NEVER had good tackles. Sure, the ones we tested out were always good at run blocking, but their pass blocking skills BLEW.

We were screwed when Boselli didn't play. That is the over and under of the first few seasons on the o-line. If you want to argue that David was the problem last year, THAT IS FINE. But do NOT sit here and try and feed me that garbage about how David was "ALWAYS" the problem.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2007, 08:20 PM
Carr always had been the major problem on the field and off the field from a team building stand point. Anyone that did not get that before and does not get that now needs to put their brain back inside their head and stop playing with it.

TexansLucky13
09-18-2007, 08:28 PM
Carr always had been the major problem on the field and off the field from a team building stand point. Anyone that did not get that before and does not get that now needs to put their brain back inside their head and stop playing with it.

Ah, the prototypical KT response. Right on time, too.

I am not saying that David was not a huge problem. What I am saying is this... it is downright stupid to say that the offensive line was not a problem.

2BCF
09-19-2007, 02:51 AM
UNBELIEVABLE

Looks like TexansLucky13's MAN-LOVE for Carr runs deep.
You poor bastard.

He just NEG REP'D me for this post:

Originally Posted by TexansLucky13
David took a lot for this team. People do need to give him some respect.

LOL

Yep, he took our time, money and dreams for 5 long years.

Good Riddance.


I believe this is the site you and Dread are looking for:
http://www.panthers.com/home/

************************************************** *****

Marcus
09-19-2007, 05:41 AM
I am not saying that David was not a huge problem. What I am saying is this... it is downright stupid to say that the offensive line was not a problem.

C'mon man, you're just a poster on an Internet message board. So it's not going to kill you to fess up and admit that you're wrong about how bad the offensive line was, and about how the offensive line was the reason why Carr turned out the way he did.

If McNair and Kubiak can admit they were wrong about him, you can too. I drank the "It ain't Carr, it's the OL" kool-aid for over 4 years. I so desperately wanted to believe that Carr would eventually be QB to take us where we needed to go. And I was one of those who bashed the "Carr-haters".

Looking back on it, we can now really see how huge an impact it was when Tony Boselli never played a down. If Boselli had played, Carr's incompetence would have shown itself a whole lot sooner. Lord knows what the makeup of this team would be like today if that had happened.:hmmm:

Shaft75
09-19-2007, 11:24 AM
I am not saying that David was not a huge problem. What I am saying is this... it is downright stupid to say that the offensive line was not a problem.

How much evidence do you friggin need?

Carr is gone and we are 2-0 for the first time in team history, with the same o-line. Everyone in the locker room says how much better Schaub is at getting rid of the ball, at being a leader and a field general. He has thrown Andre 3 td's in the first two weeks of the season.

WAKE THE F' UP BUDDY!

Double Barrel
09-19-2007, 11:31 AM
Are you seriously going to sit here and say that we had a good offensive line, and that David Carr was the problem all along? The fact that three of the starters are still here means absolutely nothing.

Are you seriously going to sit here and just blow it out of your assumption?

You're making things up. I never said that Carr was the only problem. But the reality is that he was a big part of the problem.

If the fact that three starters means absolutely nothing to you, then maybe the fact that Carr was cut by this team and failed to land a starting job with 31 other NFL teams means something to you.

Otherwise, you're just being obtuse and delusional, and I mean those as compliments in this case.

But do NOT sit here and try and feed me that garbage about how David was "ALWAYS" the problem.

I'm not trying to "feed you" anything.

YOU are the one that entered this thread and spewed forth that we "do need to give him some respect" for "David took a lot for this team". I suppose if you were to be an expert at verbal garbage, it's only because of your experience with creating it.

I am not saying that David was not a huge problem.

Then why, exactly, should we respect him as a football player. Dude is a bust in every sense of the term.

Enough of your myopic, emotional outbursts about one of our former players. You're lucky that I even bother responding to your blatant assumptions with no basis in reality.

real
09-19-2007, 11:34 AM
David Carr was an awful QB with no field presence, let alone pocket presence.

How remedial (or nervous) do you have to be to throw the ball while past the line of scrimmage 2 times within the span of 1 quater ?

How about the fact that David thought a "big play" was 15 yard slant...

What kind of football player wears two white latex looking gloves, and flips his hair like a woman ?

The guy doesn't have the mental make-up to be a front line QB. Pretty much as simple as that.

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 11:46 AM
Are you seriously going to sit here and just blow it out of your assumption?

You're making things up. I never said that Carr was the only problem. But the reality is that he was a big part of the problem.

If the fact that three starters means absolutely nothing to you, then maybe the fact that Carr was cut by this team and failed to land a starting job with 31 other NFL teams means something to you.

Otherwise, you're just being obtuse and delusional, and I mean those as compliments in this case.



I'm not trying to "feed you" anything.

YOU are the one that entered this thread and spewed forth that we "do need to give him some respect" for "David took a lot for this team". I suppose if you were to be an expert at verbal garbage, it's only because of your experience with creating it.



Then why, exactly, should we respect him as a football player. Dude is a bust in every sense of the term.

Enough of your myopic, emotional outbursts about one of our former players. You're lucky that I even bother responding to your blatant assumptions with no basis in reality.

I find it funny that you ignored my argument altogether and went with the cheap shots instead. I didn't expect that from you.

If throwing Carr under the bus and blaming all our past failures on him makes you happy, go ahead. There was only one person on this message board whose respect I admired, and that person left because of people like you.

You started this, and then tried to tell me that you weren't singling me out. Of course, after that, all the mindless Carr bashers jumped in. I couldn't care less about them, but I had always read your posts and admired your point of view. Today, things have changed.

If you want to respond, try talking about the debate that I tried to create, and not the toilet that the other bashers are swimming in. If you can't find it, it is because you aren't looking. If that is the case, this whole thread was dead before it was created.

Double Barrel
09-19-2007, 11:56 AM
It's not "throwing anyone under the bus" when you review Texans history and form educated opinions about players.

For the record (as you seem to desire to pigeonhole me with assumptions):I've never stated it was all Carr's fault.

But you cannot deny that he was BIG part of five losing seasons. Of course it's a team sport and others are responsible, as well, but they're all gone and we don't have a plethora of Capers-homers or any other emotional attachment like some have for David Carr.

You take things to a personal level and then cry when others respond accordingly. I don't understand the mentality of calling someone out but being too thin-skinned to read the replies. I never intend to make points about posters unless they quote me or verbally attack me. You put yourself in that position, and I'd hope you understand the nature of the debate.

My reply to your original post was 100% about David Carr. If today things have changed, then it's in your mind and so be it. I have nothing personal against you and hold you in high regard in the same way I respect 99.9% of the members here. This is merely a heated discussion about a former player that has become a lightning rod of sorts, and if you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

We owe David Carr nothing. He got paid. Feel free to respect him all you want, but don't get emotional when other fans do not share your perspective.

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 12:03 PM
It's not "throwing anyone under the bus" when you review Texans history and form educated opinions about players.

For the record (as you seem to desire to pigeonhole me with assumptions):I've never stated it was all Carr's fault.

But you cannot deny that he was BIG part of five losing seasons. Of course it's a team sport and others are responsible, as well, but they're all gone and we don't have a plethora of Capers-homers or any other emotional attachment like some have for David Carr.

You take things to a personal level and then cry when others respond accordingly. I don't understand the mentality of calling someone out but being too thin-skinned to read the replies. I never intend to make points about posters unless they quote me or verbally attack me. You put yourself in that position, and I'd hope you understand the nature of the debate.

My reply to your original post was 100% about David Carr. If today things have changed, then it's in your mind and so be it. I have nothing personal against you and hold you in high regard in the same way I respect 99.9% of the members here. This is merely a heated discussion about a former player that has become a lightning rod of sorts, and if you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

We owe David Carr nothing. He got paid. Feel free to respect him all you want, but don't get emotional when other fans do not share your perspective.

You are correct in saying that I take things too personal. That said, I believe that your attacks on me were without merit. But that doesn't matter.

I want to debate this. Lets put this whole pie throwing contest aside and talk.

Topic number one.

Two of the three Offensive linemen you are referring to are Pitts and Weary. IMO, they are and always have been good guards. My debate is about the tackles we have rotated in and out of that line. I do not believe that they ever had the pass blocking skills necessary of a tackle. Sure, they could run block with the best.... but they never quite had it in the passing game.

Your response?

Shaft75
09-19-2007, 12:04 PM
I find it funny that you ignored my argument altogether and went with the cheap shots instead. I didn't expect that from you.

If throwing Carr under the bus and blaming all our past failures on him makes you happy, go ahead. There was only one person on this message board whose respect I admired, and that person left because of people like you.

You started this, and then tried to tell me that you weren't singling me out. Of course, after that, all the mindless Carr bashers jumped in. I couldn't care less about them, but I had always read your posts and admired your point of view. Today, things have changed.

If you want to respond, try talking about the debate that I tried to create, and not the toilet that the other bashers are swimming in. If you can't find it, it is because you aren't looking. If that is the case, this whole thread was dead before it was created.

A little melodramatic of a post...

I mean is David Carr really worth any of this???

Shaft75
09-19-2007, 12:06 PM
You are correct in saying that I take things too personal. That said, I believe that your attacks on me were without merit. But that doesn't matter.

I want to debate this. Lets put this whole pie throwing contest aside and talk.

Topic number one.

Two of the three Offensive linemen you are referring to are Pitts and Weary. IMO, they are and always have been good guards. My debate is about the tackles we have rotated in and out of that line. I do not believe that they ever had the pass blocking skills necessary of a tackle. Sure, they could run block with the best.... but they never quite had it in the passing game.

Your response?

My last statement in this thread...

DC is not worth the time!

hobie
09-19-2007, 12:07 PM
Carr always had been the major problem on the field and off the field from a team building stand point. Anyone that did not get that before and does not get that now needs to put their brain back inside their head and stop playing with it.

KT, you assume I have a brain? WOW, I appreciate the kind words !

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 12:08 PM
My last statement in this thread...

DC is not worth the time!

It is worth it to me to understand why the general public believes that our offensive line was not the problem.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 12:11 PM
It is worth it to me to understand why the general public believes that our offensive line was not the problem.

Well if you can't see that Carr couldn't manage a NFL game with the same linemen you may want to stop and consider your pov.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 12:11 PM
to stay on-topic, i can't imagine any player who cost the franchise that much money for that long of a time can be any good to a team.

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 12:13 PM
Well if you can't see that Carr couldn't manage a NFL game with the same linemen you may want to stop and consider your pov.

If you keep avoiding the topic, I can't discuss my POV at all.

Second Honeymoon
09-19-2007, 12:15 PM
I can see a Second Honeymoon rant coming real soon.:user:

nahh....not today. it's not my fault that people don't know diddly about football. nothing I can do about it. sometimes you gotta let people have their opinions no matter how misguided and uninformed they are. i want to focus on what we have now and not what we were unfortunate enough to have the past 5 years. Lets kick the crap out of the Colts this week.

a lot of old wounds healed last Sunday v. the Panthers. we finally shook our expansion tag and played like a legitimate NFL team. we have a lot to be thankful for. no reason to keep bringing up how awful Carr was at QB. People may continue to make excuses for him or show some sort of retarded appreciation for what he did, but that is their prerogative and no amount of rants, facts, or logic will ever change the fact that Carr sucked and was a pitiful and pathetic QB. People can keep blaming others and making excuses but we all know the truth now....its all painfully obvious now to anyone with a brain. That is their own problem, not mine.

OT - Selling my 4 field level end zone seats (sec 134 row r) and 2 parking passes for $370 to Texans fans and $410 to Colts fans. They are just ridiculously awesome seats but I need some extra money at the moment and can't commit 7 hours on Sunday for football/tailgating due to family commitments. Hopefully they shoot the game in HD...

Raising my 5 year old princess > Football...i know its crazy, but its true :)

Exithios
09-19-2007, 12:18 PM
It is worth it to me to understand why the general public believes that our offensive line was not the problem.

Because the same line that was protecting Carr is protecting Schaub. This season we have 2 games under our belt with 2 sacks recorded on us.

Have you actually watched any of the Texans games for the past 5 years up until last week? If so then I am completely lost as to why we are having this conversation.

The "general public" consisted of people carrying opinions based off of what ESPN was saying, so I am assuming the "general public" you are actually referring to are the knowledgeable folks on this board that formed their own opinions from what they actually saw taking place. The people on this board, that have actually watched all of the games or likely even hold season tickets have seen what Carr was doing and called him on it for the past 5 years. Funny how now the media suddenly sees it as well.

Who gives you your analysis and opinions regarding the Texans?

2BCF
09-19-2007, 12:20 PM
If you keep avoiding the topic, I can't discuss my POV at all.

Topic is you're a thin-skinned poster who neg reps people for next to nothing.
Grow up or find another board.
You give Aggieland a bad name. Truly pathetic.

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 12:21 PM
Because the same line that was protecting Carr is protecting Schaub. This season we have 2 games under our belt with 2 sacks recorded on us.

Have you actually watched any of the Texans games for the past 5 years up until last week? If so then I am completely lost as to why we are having this conversation.

The "general public" consisted of people carrying opinions based off of what ESPN was saying, so I am assuming the "general public" you are actually referring to are the knowledgeable folks on this board that formed their own opinions from what they actually saw taking place. The people on this board, that have actually watched all of the games or likely even hold season tickets have seen what Carr was doing and called him on it for the past 5 years. Funny how now the media suddenly sees it as well.

Who gives you your analysis and opinions regarding the Texans?

Here we go with this "same offensive line" stuff. The two most important positions in regards to the passing game are LT and RT. In case you didn't know, we didn't have Salaam or Winston in 2002.

Name me one good pass blocking LT we had at that time, other than Boselli, who never played.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 12:22 PM
btw, i don't think there's any reason to insult a guy who still likes Carr. he WAS a nice guy, and while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster, etc etc. and it's not as easy to point to the 2-0 record now and say that it's clear that the biggest difference is Carr. no, the defense is playing better, the o-line is playing better, the special teams are playing better, the coaching is better...and why not? they have more experience now. it's not all on Carr.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 12:24 PM
nahh....not today. it's not my fault that people don't know diddly about football.
lol:user:

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 12:25 PM
btw, i don't think there's any reason to insult a guy who still likes Carr. he WAS a nice guy, and while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster, etc etc. and it's not as easy to point to the 2-0 record now and say that it's clear that the biggest difference is Carr. no, the defense is playing better, the o-line is playing better, the special teams are playing better, the coaching is better...and why not? they have more experience now. it's not all on Carr.

As expected, kastofsna has probably the most intelligent post in this thread. Thank you for considering everything that is involved in a football team, not just the QB.

Second Honeymoon
09-19-2007, 12:27 PM
IMO, I think Carr's problem is that under pressure, he just couldn't see the field and make a determination of what to do under pressure. In college, you play against comparative players on average, with the occasional exception regarding NFL caliber players. In the NFL, you're playing against the college's 'cream of the crop'. The level of play is stepped up dramatically, and the transition needed to make those judgment calls is ramped up dramatically. I don't think he had it in him to play at this level.

Again, all this is of my opinion...

Texan Asylum. You win the cupie doll. That is a good, no a great post, and shows exactly why Carr sucks. He was good enough in college in a subpar football conference but once he made the jump to the NFL he was woefully short on smarts, ability, moxie, and most importantly, work ethic/preparation.

I can't think of any other NFL team that would have drafted him or Joey Harrington #1 overall. It was a obviously a poor year for QBs but McNair and Casserley felt they needed to force a 'franchise' QB down our throats. Asserley is gone and McNair learned his lesson. Just sit back and sign the checks, Bob. You aren't that smart in regards to football. Now that he has gotten out of the way he has admitted he screwed up and is now staying out of the way...and what do you know....we are now competitive.

I <3 my Texans!!!

well back to work....

real
09-19-2007, 12:30 PM
I can't believe this is even a real discussion.

Who cares if he was the main problem or the whole problem.

The point is that he was part of the problem.

Texan_Bill
09-19-2007, 12:38 PM
TexansLucky,

As someone who was NOT a Carr basher and was willing to give DC all of last year under Kubiak's tutelage, to see if it was a) previous coaching, b) offensive line, or c) if it was lack of weapons (save AJ). By the mid point of the season I had started to realize that it wasn't A, B, or C (unless of course "C" stands for Carr). The final straw for me, was the New England game. Four (4) turnovers, and all 4 were Carr interceptions.

Since Schaub has joined the team (with essentially last year's same O-line), you notice a huge difference in pocket "presence". DC did not have that natural sense of pressure and/or how to shuffle over a couple of feet to the left, right, up or back, while keeping his eyes down field.

Although I took some shots at DC over on the Panther's board (smack talk is smack talk), I respect DC as a person and wish him and his family the best. I personally don't think at this point he is an NFL quarterback. Who knows, some day he may figure it out, but the odds are against him.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 12:40 PM
I can't believe this is even a real discussion.

Who cares if he was the main problem or the whole problem.

The point is that he was part of the problem.
indeed. the guys who are saying Carr wasn't a problem at all are illogical, and the guys who are putting all the blame on Carr are logical.

i think the real reason the Texans are turning it around is the draft. look at all the very good contributions that are being made from the last two draft classes. and they're only getting better this year. the 2007 draft class is looking pretty solid right away, too. compare that to the two draft classes prior. ouch.

i put most of the credit for the new Texans in the new management and coaching, moreso than Schaub, who i feel is a franchise QB. but Schaub with the old coach and management wouldn't have faired that greatly either.

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 12:47 PM
TexansLucky,

As someone who was NOT a Carr basher and was willing to give DC all of last year under Kubiak's tutelage, to see if it was a) previous coaching, b) offensive line, or c) if it was lack of weapons (save AJ). By the mid point of the season I had started to realize that it wasn't A, B, or C (unless of course "C" stands for Carr). The final straw for me, was the New England game. Four (4) turnovers, and all 4 were Carr interceptions.

Since Schaub has joined the team (with essentially last year's same O-line), you notice a huge difference in pocket "presence". DC did not have that natural sense of pressure and/or how to shuffle over a couple of feet to the left, right, up or back, while keeping his eyes down field.

Although I took some shots at DC over on the Panther's board (smack talk is smack talk), I respect DC as a person and wish him and his family the best. I personally don't think at this point he is an NFL quarterback. Who knows, some day he may figure it out, but the odds are against him.

Oh, I completely agree. This is the problem I have been having when I try to have an intelligent debate. People aren't willing to listen to what I have to say, but rather, they assume that I am apologizing for Carr in some fashion, and I get knocked around for it.

I am trying to talk about the offensive line. IMO, we never had the tools at LT or RT to properly enable David to stay on his feet and avoid the shell-shock that he suffered.

Second Honeymoon
09-19-2007, 12:48 PM
btw, i don't think there's any reason to insult a guy who still likes Carr. he WAS a nice guy, and while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster, etc etc. and it's not as easy to point to the 2-0 record now and say that it's clear that the biggest difference is Carr. no, the defense is playing better, the o-line is playing better, the special teams are playing better, the coaching is better...and why not? they have more experience now. it's not all on Carr.

umm, who cares if he was a nice guy? how in the hell does this enter the equation. i am a pretty damn nice guy too. i am a little past my peak at 37 years of age but I have all the measurables that an NFL team would look for in a QB. 6'5" 270ish, good arm, pretty healthy, would have to quit smoking though..(love handles...damn you Blue Bell!!!). Will you cheer and support me after 5 years of bad QB play too? If so, I may have chosen the wrong career path.....if you thought 2-14 was a bad year, put me behind center....ill make you pray for the days of 2-14. :) I would make Carr look like Unitas, but I would be nice....so I guess I would be all good in your book.

in the NFL its about winning. its not about family. its not about faith. its not about hair. its not about looks. its not about smiling for the camera. its about WINNING. period. end of story. Carr was a loser. FACT. Schaub is putting up good numbers with same squad + Ahman Green...oh AND he is winning. Wake up.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 12:55 PM
umm, who cares if he was a nice guy? how in the hell does this enter the equation. i am a pretty damn nice guy too. i am a little past my peak at 37 years of age but I have all the measurables that an NFL team would look for in a QB. 6'5" 270ish, good arm, pretty healthy, would have to quit smoking though..(love handles...damn you Blue Bell!!!). Will you cheer and support me after 5 years of bad QB play too? If so, I may have chosen the wrong career path.....if you thought 2-14 was a bad year, put me behind center....ill make you pray for the days of 2-14. :) I would make Carr look like Unitas, but I would be nice....so I guess I would be all good in your book.

in the NFL its about winning. its not about family. its not about faith. its not about hair. its not about looks. its not about smiling for the camera. its about WINNING. period. end of story. Carr was a loser. FACT. Schaub is putting up good numbers with same squad + Ahman Green...oh AND he is winning. Wake up.
all i'm saying is, i can understand why people would still like the guy and support him wherever he goes.

Exithios
09-19-2007, 01:10 PM
Oh, I completely agree. This is the problem I have been having when I try to have an intelligent debate. People aren't willing to listen to what I have to say, but rather, they assume that I am apologizing for Carr in some fashion, and I get knocked around for it.

I am trying to talk about the offensive line. IMO, we never had the tools at LT or RT to properly enable David to stay on his feet and avoid the shell-shock that he suffered.

I am going to go along with you in your response to my previous post and say that you are right, we didn't have sufficient blocking from the LT and RT positions. Some of those sacks could have been nullified with a more fortified o-line. But what about the sacks that could have been avoided if he would have dropped back from under center with his back foot instead of immediately starting into his side step with his front foot which led to being stepped on by the center? How about the times that he stood in the pocket for too long while the line was providing good protection and the pocket simply folded as they all do? How about the times that he retreated from the pocket and ran out of bounds for a loss which is automatically recorded as a sack?

It may not be completely fair to throw Carr under the buss but it certainly isn't fair to assume that it was all the o-line. The mistakes that Carr made were mistakes that he made over and over again, o-lines tend to fold on occasion and that just a fact that you have to deal with. Bad decision making by a 5 year veteran quarterback is not a fact we were willing to deal with.

My $0.02

Vinny
09-19-2007, 01:16 PM
all i'm saying is, i can understand why people would still like the guy and support him wherever he goes.

I like Andre Ware but let's face it...it wasn't the Bengals line. it was Andre Ware who couldn't handle the NFL. A great College QB, nice guy...but lousy NFL QB and I know why Bengal fans don't like the guy....but football message boards are about football...and as with his brother Carr, he sucked.

Second Honeymoon
09-19-2007, 01:25 PM
TexansLucky,

As someone who was NOT a Carr basher and was willing to give DC all of last year under Kubiak's tutelage, to see if it was a) previous coaching, b) offensive line, or c) if it was lack of weapons (save AJ). By the mid point of the season I had started to realize that it wasn't A, B, or C (unless of course "C" stands for Carr). The final straw for me, was the New England game. Four (4) turnovers, and all 4 were Carr interceptions.

Since Schaub has joined the team (with essentially last year's same O-line), you notice a huge difference in pocket "presence". DC did not have that natural sense of pressure and/or how to shuffle over a couple of feet to the left, right, up or back, while keeping his eyes down field.

Although I took some shots at DC over on the Panther's board (smack talk is smack talk), I respect DC as a person and wish him and his family the best. I personally don't think at this point he is an NFL quarterback. Who knows, some day he may figure it out, but the odds are against him.

TB. Your cool in my book.....even though you used to homer :)

TexansLucky13
09-19-2007, 01:25 PM
I am going to go along with you in your response to my previous post and say that you are right, we didn't have sufficient blocking from the LT and RT positions. Some of those sacks could have been nullified with a more fortified o-line. But what about the sacks that could have been avoided if he would have dropped back from under center with his back foot instead of immediately starting into his side step with his front foot which led to being stepped on by the center? How about the times that he stood in the pocket for too long while the line was providing good protection and the pocket simply folded as they all do? How about the times that he retreated from the pocket and ran out of bounds for a loss which is automatically recorded as a sack?

It may not be completely fair to throw Carr under the buss but it certainly isn't fair to assume that it was all the o-line. The mistakes that Carr made were mistakes that he made over and over again, o-lines tend to fold on occasion and that just a fact that you have to deal with. Bad decision making by a 5 year veteran quarterback is not a fact we were willing to deal with.

My $0.02

I completely agree with you. David Carr folded under pressure. That is just a fact of life. Whether his tendencies were a product of bad offensive line or vice versa is up for debate. The fact is, though, by last year.... he was completely shell-shocked.

I am not placing all the blame on the offensive line, or any other part of the team. But I will not say that David has been the problem all along. We never had the talent at tackle to handle the pass rush.

Second Honeymoon
09-19-2007, 01:29 PM
I like Andre Ware but let's face it...it wasn't the Bengals line. it was Andre Ware who couldn't handle the NFL. A great College QB, nice guy...but lousy NFL QB and I know why Bengal fans don't like the guy....but football message boards are about football...and as with his brother Carr, he sucked.

I think you are thinking about Klingler from Cougar High. He was drafted like #8 by the Bengals. Ware was drafted by the Lions like #7-#10 or something. Long time ago and during my beer-n-bong addled college days.

argument works either way though.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 01:32 PM
I think you are thinking about Klingler from Cougar High. He was drafted like #8 by the Bengals. Ware was drafted by the Lions like #7-#10 or something. Long time ago and during my beer-n-bong addled college days.

argument works either way though.Yep, thanks for the correction. Klingler is a preacher too....all of these guys are nice guys, but all 3 were miserable NFL QB's who's teams just absolutely sucked while they were there.

HOU-TEX
09-19-2007, 01:38 PM
I completely agree with you. David Carr folded under pressure. That is just a fact of life. Whether his tendencies were a product of bad offensive line or vice versa is up for debate. The fact is, though, by last year.... he was completely shell-shocked.

I am not placing all the blame on the offensive line, or any other part of the team. But I will not say that David has been the problem all along. We never had the talent at tackle to handle the pass rush.

There have been QB after QB come into the league and get the snot knocked out of them. Plunkett, Aikman, S. Young, Manning, etc. etc. They don't curl up like a pillbug the first sight of a Dlineman, do they?

The Texans are 2-0 for the first time and I'm at the edge of my seat while watching the game for the first time in a few years. It makes me giddy having no idea what play we're running next.

Screw Carr! I'm pissed I even posted in this thread.:pirate:

beerlover
09-19-2007, 01:39 PM
trying to be positive with this thread asking the question was David Carr the best thing for the Texans? think back to the draft, 2002 has Joey Harrington shown he is any better? of course Peppers is good but then I'd bet Mario Williams would not be a Texan & the draft picks would not have been as high so neither would VY or Reggie Bush.

the point I failed to get across was because of David Carr & his general failure leading the Texans to a winning team it bought this franchise time to build a solid defense, a better offensive line, more skilled players, a better QB, HC & GM (man I hated Casserly). maybe not all directly related to DC, but its hard to argue on his behalf that he wasnt a huge contributing factor towards dismal results.

now we have an entirely revamped team, scheme wize, talent wize & organizational wize. the end result- David Carr had a positive impact he was extradited like a fugitive along with every other weak link purging the Texans & assimilating a competitive, entertaining & winning franchise in its place :logo:

real
09-19-2007, 01:42 PM
I think David hurt our lines development.

He's had a lot of bad tendencies since day one. In fact I can't really come up with one area of Carr's game that he improved upon since entering the leauge.


"I was getting tired of the situation, I was just like..let someone else deal with it" tells me all I need to know about David...That means that he's either lying or he had given up on himself and the team way before he had gotten cut...

That is a quitters attitude...I can not support a quitter in any avenue of life, let alone one of the things I'm passionate about--football.


Forget about the mans on field production as the reasons for his piss poor play are debatable...

The only thing that is certain is that he didn't have what it took off the field to be successful on the field...A quitters attitude, poor leadership qualities, self pitty...The guy had the attitude and self awarness of an overweight 3rd grader...

David was a good guy.

But honestly, How many times did we hear David take blame for his poor play ?


The only way you can tell who has a legit "winners attitude" is to lose.


We were losers and the real winners showed their faces. And the losers, well...they got dressed in a hurry and got the hell outta dodge....

Second Honeymoon
09-19-2007, 01:43 PM
Yep, thanks for the correction. Klingler is a preacher too....all of these guys are nice guys, but all 3 were miserable NFL QB's who's teams just absolutely sucked while they were there.

I thought Ware had some talent but with Klingler it was obvious that he was a product of the system. the whole Pardee/Jenkins regime at UH put out a bunch of stats but beat no one of consequence and put garbage QBs into the NFL....kinda like Tedford does...oh wait Carr is a tedford system QB....

surprise surprise

your point is well put in stating that all 3 guys sucked and were miserable in the NFL. putting up 600yards and 5Tds against a community college is one thing, doing it in the NFL is a different thing altogether.

small colleges put out good players and in some cases even good QBs...but very rarely happens when the guy comes into the league with hype and anointed a starter...most have to pay their dues and actually earn their spot. Carr was too busy being Mr.All-American family man to do any real work. ok back to work.

real
09-19-2007, 01:45 PM
trying to be positive with this thread asking the question was David Carr the best thing for the Texans? think back to the draft, 2002 has Joey Harrington shown he is any better? of course Peppers is good but then I'd bet Mario Williams would not be a Texan & the draft picks would not have been as high so neither would VY or Reggie Bush.

the point I failed to get across was because of David Carr & his general failure leading the Texans to a winning team it bought this franchise time to build a solid defense, a better offensive line, more skilled players, a better QB, HC & GM (man I hated Casserly). maybe not all directly related to DC, but its hard to argue on his behalf that he wasnt a huge contributing factor towards dismal results.

now we have an entirely revamped team, scheme wize, talent wize & organizational wize. the end result- David Carr had a positive impact he was extradited like a fugitive along with every other weak link purging the Texans & assimilating a competitive, entertaining & winning franchise in its place :logo:


I think that's where the argument comes in.

Your implied premise is that David Carr was the reason that the Texans sucked so bad.

He was part of the reason, but it wasn't all his fault.

You'd have to include Casserly, Capers, McNair, Victor Riley and every other bust and sorry football player we've ever had.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 01:46 PM
trying to be positive with this thread asking the question was David Carr the best thing for the Texans? think back to the draft, 2002 has Joey Harrington shown he is any better? of course Peppers is good but then I'd bet Mario Williams would not be a Texan & the draft picks would not have been as high so neither would VY or Reggie Bush.

the point I failed to get across was because of David Carr & his general failure leading the Texans to a winning team it bought this franchise time to build a solid defense, a better offensive line, more skilled players, a better QB, HC & GM (man I hated Casserly). maybe not all directly related to DC, but its hard to argue on his behalf that he wasnt a huge contributing factor towards dismal results.

now we have an entirely revamped team, scheme wize, talent wize & organizational wize. the end result- David Carr had a positive impact he was extradited like a fugitive along with every other weak link purging the Texans & assimilating a competitive, entertaining & winning franchise in its place :logo:
a half a decade of losing?....looking too hard to find a bright spot in the Carr decision I see. It's almost like praising your cured ingrown toenail by reveling in the decision to chop off your leg.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 01:46 PM
Yep, thanks for the correction. Klingler is a preacher too....all of these guys are nice guys, but all 3 were miserable NFL QB's who's teams just absolutely sucked while they were there.
you can't ignore the common theme that they were all drafted by teams that really sucked, too.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 01:49 PM
you can't ignore the common theme that they were all drafted by teams that really sucked, too. So did the Colts...but then again, Peyton is an elite player as opposed to Klingler, Ware or Carr. Let's just face the fact that when your elite players who soak up the most cap hit sucks...your team will tend to suck. It's really not much deeper than that.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 01:57 PM
also look at the teams and how they were managed before and after those players were drafted. look at the players Bill Polian drafted to put around Manning, it's insane. obviously Manning is great no matter where he is, but you can't just fault the QB's for sucking.

and i wouldn't put Carr in that Klingler/Ware category. he was never so awful as to warrant being released almost immediately such as with Ware. yes, he probably deserved to be benched here and there, and you can fault the coaches for that, but Carr was routinely "below mediocre," as opposed to the other guys who were dropped hard and fast.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 02:00 PM
also look at the teams and how they were managed before and after those players were drafted. look at the players Bill Polian drafted to put around Manning, it's insane. obviously Manning is great no matter where he is, but you can't just fault the QB's for sucking.

and i wouldn't put Carr in that Klingler/Ware category. he was never so awful as to warrant being released almost immediately such as with Ware. yes, he probably deserved to be benched here and there, and you can fault the coaches for that, but Carr was routinely "below mediocre," as opposed to the other guys who were dropped hard and fast.
Vince Young also came in and changed a culture of losing...One great player at QB can do that in football. Ask Elway too.

If Bob McNair didn't have some unnatural love for DC he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did here. Bob had no clue...and it was obvious. Carr would not have lasted that long with any other Franchise...you can tell that by the fact that when he was a Free Agent without any compensation no team wanted him to start for them. Nobody.

Double Barrel
09-19-2007, 03:39 PM
It is worth it to me to understand why the general public believes that our offensive line was not the problem.

I have not read any takes that David Carr was the only problem with this team for the first five seasons. I'm not sure where you keep reading this, but I've never seen it even from the hardcore Carr haters.

However, many people have stated that the line was the sole responsibility for David Carr being a horrible QB (Matter-of-fact, most "experts" said Schaub would have a tough time here because of the offensive line).

Can you see the difference? We got rid of one player, who nobody wanted as a starter, and kept the members of the "worst.line.evar!", and you think the line was the biggest problem?

There really is no point in dissecting the first five seasons. The net result is still the same.

while Carr wasn't that great, you certainly can't place all the blame on him. the defense had plenty of problems, the coaching was a disaster,

So tell me, Mr. NFL, how horrible a defense is when we win a game in spite of -5 (negative five) total passing yards? Can you name any good QBs with that kind of game in their history?

And again, I repeat: Nobody is blaming everything on David Carr.

Lucky
09-19-2007, 03:42 PM
Vince Young also came in and changed a culture of losing...
What "culture of losing"? The Titans had a couple of bad seasons due to cap problems. Prior to that, they had been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

BTW, Vince Young hasn't won anything...yet.

HOU-TEX
09-19-2007, 03:52 PM
What "culture of losing"? The Titans had a couple of bad seasons due to cap problems. Prior to that, they had been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

BTW, Vince Young hasn't won anything...yet.

I think he might win 'the sore loser of the week award'. Geez, he acted like a complete baby during and after the game.

I'm told that after the game, Young put on another display, throwing his helmet, ripping off his uniform and pads. I know from being down there he was a baby in the news conference. Short answers. Defensive. Just can't handle the heat, I guess. At least it wasn't as bad as last year here at the RCA Dome, when I learned after the loss he took a football cleat and stuck it into a locker room wall.

http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/

OK, back on topic. Eh..nevermind:gun:

HoustonFrog
09-19-2007, 04:02 PM
BTW, not to turn this into a VY thread but it is funny because after the game Sunday Dunta had a quote in the paper about how Schaub kicks tail and it made them..he and the defense want to go out there and kick tail. Later he repeated the sentiments.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3636

“Even when things weren’t looking good, he never dropped his head,” cornerback Dunta Robinson said of Schaub. “He talked to the offensive guys to keep their heads up. He came to the defense to apologize for that early turnover…It was something that we’d never seen. We knew from that point on that we had a chance to win. Like I said, it’s great to have a leader like that. The only emotion he shows is positive emotion.”....


“We’re more unified,” Robinson said. “The offensive guys believe in the defensive guys, and the defensive guys believe in the offensive guys. It forces us to come out and play for each other. You don’t want to let the guys on the other side of the ball down, and they feel the same way about us.”

So how was it that people last year were scoffing that having VY play made the Titans D step up in some games despite their horrible ranking?

As to the subject at hand. We have the exact same line and a different QB yet the system is running well. We could see it work with Rosenfels last year. Carr got beat early in his career and the line was not good but so did alot of guys like Aikman. Carr stopped improving and pretty much was just as much to blame the last few years as the line and anyone else. If every QB was good despite a line, none of them would be out of the league. The guy didn't hack it here and didn't put in the work. We came out the winner now.

kastofsna
09-19-2007, 04:40 PM
So tell me, Mr. NFL, how horrible a defense is when we win a game in spite of -5 (negative five) total passing yards? Can you name any good QBs with that kind of game in their history?
you can't find any HORRIBLE QB's with that kind of game in their history. that was a once in a lifetime thing, how can you even bring that up? i never said he was good, and i never said the defense was so bad they gave up a thousand yards every game, we're talking on a week-to-week basis throughout the time Carr was in houston. jeez.

Vinny
09-19-2007, 04:46 PM
What "culture of losing"? The Titans had a couple of bad seasons due to cap problems. Prior to that, they had been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

BTW, Vince Young hasn't won anything...yet.the two years prior they won 9 (9-26 to be exact from 2004 to when VY got his first start) games total and many (including you) called them worse than the Texans leading into last season. They were 8-8 last year and one game from the playoffs. Vince Young hasn't won anything....yet, but I'm 43 years old and been watching the NFL since the early 70's and I'm still waiting on my first Super Bowl for Houston.....I know how it goes when it comes to not winning anything....yet. I do know special players when I see them though. Homer goggles be dammed.

Second Honeymoon
09-20-2007, 09:26 AM
Vince Young also came in and changed a culture of losing...One great player at QB can do that in football. Ask Elway too.

If Bob McNair didn't have some unnatural love for DC he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did here. Bob had no clue...and it was obvious. Carr would not have lasted that long with any other Franchise...you can tell that by the fact that when he was a Free Agent without any compensation no team wanted him to start for them. Nobody.


your preaching to the choir Vinny. Carr would have lasted AT THE MOST 2.5 years in ANY other franchise. McNair wanted to be all touchy feely and kept making excuses for his mimbo QB...and alot of the sheeple fans fell in line. it was fans like myself and Vinny that were like 'WTF, why is this guy still here? This guy is horrible.'

bottom line is that BM admitted that he was a dumbarse and let RS make the decisions...shortly thereafter Carr was sent packing. Too bad RS couldnt have been hired a year earlier. We wouldnt have picked up Carr's option and would probably be in better shape now with a better QB in place whether that be Schaub, VY, Garcia, etc.

Carr sucked and anyone who says differently is totally clueless and blinded by Carr's bangin' hair.

Texan Asylum
09-20-2007, 09:44 AM
All this debate concerning Carr and the defending of his abilities is simply silly.

The evidence is plainly staring us in our "2-0" face. Never has this team, and our OL/QB combination in particular, looked this good. Those who continue to argue otherwise appear to be doing so just to justify there positions on Carr in the past. I'm one of the biggest Carr homers there is (was), but I can plainly see the difference his departure, and subsequent replacement in Schaub represents.

Jump on board fellow and former Carr homers, the koolaid is GREAT!!! :cool:

HoustonFrog
09-20-2007, 10:01 AM
All this debate concerning Carr and the defending of his abilities is simply silly.

The evidence is plainly staring us in our "2-0" face. Never has this team, and our OL/QB combination in particular, looked this good. Those who continue to argue otherwise appear to be doing so just to justify there positions on Carr in the past. I'm one of the biggest Carr homers there is (was), but I can plainly see the difference his departure, and subsequent replacement in Schaub represents.

Jump on board fellow and former Carr homers, the koolaid is GREAT!!! :cool:

Well said!!If people can't see the difference between what Rosenfels did in one game behind this line last year/what Schaub has done this year compared to Carr in the pocket and the line, then they are ignoring the facts just so they won't have to eat crow. Listen to any Texan interviewed now and you will see a team that expects to win. Read my quotes by Dunta on the previous page and it is all you need to know.

Texan_Bill
09-20-2007, 10:07 AM
TB. Your cool in my book.....even though you used to homer :)


:bat:

LMAO... I was never a Carr :homer: , I always took the position that I would have liked to have seen Carr with different coaching.. Thats why I wanted to give him one year with Kubiak. Well I got about half to three quarters of the way through last season and gave up.... AND THEN there was the New England game (to add insult to injury). As far as the O-line, while not stellar, I think the proof is in the pudding by looking at Schaub's performances....

Kaiser Toro
09-20-2007, 10:12 AM
We had no problem with the Texans' Offensive Line.

Signed,
Tony Banks, Sage Rosenfels and Matt Schaub

beerlover
09-20-2007, 10:38 AM
bottom line is that BM admitted that he was a dumbarse and let RS make the decisions...shortly thereafter Carr was sent packing. Too bad RS couldnt have been hired a year earlier. We wouldnt have picked up Carr's option

Yes, but do you really think it would have taken him that long? didn't Casserly depart shortly after the 06 draft? then the Broncos gave permission to speak to RS, hence his hiring a month later? I feel after the 05 season if they could have contacted & signed RS Casserly would have been gone prior to the draft process & the Carr extension things would have been a whole lot different.


and would probably be in better shape now with a better QB in place whether that be Schaub, VY, Garcia, etc.

everyone, including Vinny needs to let go of Vince Young he is a Titan now & there is not a hell of a lot any revisonist can do about it now. I for one am happy to have Matt Schaub as the QB of the Houston Texans, not to mention Mario Williams is gonna kill Manning this weekend (figuretively speaking) & do a whole bunch more damage before his career is finished as a Houston Texan :cowboy1:

real
09-20-2007, 10:40 AM
VY is a great football player, but Matt Schaub is a better QB.

Specnatz
09-20-2007, 11:14 AM
:bat:

LMAO... I was never a Carr :homer: , I always took the position that I would have liked to have seen Carr with different coaching.. Thats why I wanted to give him one year with Kubiak. Well I got about half to three quarters of the way through last season and gave up.... AND THEN there was the New England game (to add insult to injury). As far as the O-line, while not stellar, I think the proof is in the pudding by looking at Schaub's performances....

Yeah I was one of those that said under Kubes, things would be different. The only thing I have ever defended or I should say went off on was the personal attacks.

Anyway Stomp the Colts!!


:fans: :texflag: :d:

:specnatz:

Hervoyel
09-20-2007, 11:57 AM
I have to say that I think it's never a good thing when you have the first overall pick in the draft and you blow the call. Whether you pick a guy who ends up busting or take a player who doesn't fit what you're trying to do or where your team is in it's development makes no difference. If you trade out and don't get at least reasonable value it makes no difference.

The David Carr pick set the Texans on a path that took 6 years to get straightened out and in the process altered subsequent drafts to complement and support the mistake.

In the end it's nice to know what went wrong but it's less important than simply recognizing that something was wrong and making the change needed to correct it.

Vinny
09-20-2007, 04:18 PM
everyone, including Vinny needs to let go of Vince Young he is a Titan now & there is not a hell of a lot any revisonist can do about it now. I for one am happy to have Matt Schaub as the QB of the Houston Texans, not to mention Mario Williams is gonna kill Manning this weekend (figuretively speaking) & do a whole bunch more damage before his career is finished as a Houston Texan :cowboy1:
I don't need to let go of anything...I just comment on the game I love and enjoy. I'm not running around lamenting about wanting Young over Schaub....I don't really get into homer stuff and don't think I need to apologize for typing what I think about the players I think are good.

Playoffs
04-25-2014, 10:24 AM
...
if not for David Carr the Texans would not have still been selecting 1st overall 5 years latter, hence no Mario Williams. thanks david...

Selecting first again, and David looks back just a little...

(tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top)
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith

... (the tackle) was cut and we'd bring in another guy."

Good 'ol days of #Texans: Carr - "We'd sign a (left tackle), he's starting. We'd go play Jevon Kearse in Tennessee and it was bad. Then ...

Casserly and Carr recently spoke. Casserly told Carr #Texans didn't do things right in Carr-era and team, QB paid price. #NFL

David Carr said first era of #Texans started behind 8-ball and never moved ahead. "I'm 22-years-old and I'm having to lead the team."

Carr added: "You have to have a coordinator that knows what he's doing," referring to what it takes for first-round QBs to succeed in #NFL.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

David Carr on time with #Texans: "If you're going to spend the money on a franchise quarterback, you've got to keep him on his feet."

TheIronDuke
04-25-2014, 11:04 AM
The problem with Carr's biatching about his offensive line is that his last season here he was sacked a ton and the next season, behind the same offensive line, Schaub was sacked far less and was way more productive than Carr was. Carr didn't put in the work required to be a good NFL QB and he has only himself to blame. Yes, the o-line stunk but I think he made it look way worse than it really was because he sucked so bad.

Thorn
04-25-2014, 11:05 AM
BTW...how do you start a thread? I've been here for a year and still don't know how to start a thread.


That was back in 2007. :lol::lol:

disaacks3
04-25-2014, 11:17 AM
My favorite part? David Carr said first era of #Texans started behind 8-ball and never moved ahead. "I'm 22-years-old and I'm having to lead the team."

Add this to the list of quotes you'd never hear from Andrew Luck.

HOU-TEX
04-25-2014, 11:23 AM
Last in, first out is what I'll remember most about 'that' era. Whether it was due to poor mentoring/coaching, he hurt himself as much as the team did. His final couple years were an absolute mockery of the NFL QB position. Running OB behind the LOS (sacking himself), throwing bullets at cameramen and cheerleaders and the infamous fetal position were also staples from 'that' era.

kingtexan
04-25-2014, 11:27 AM
Wonderful, more DC talk.

Synopsis of a career:

Drafted #1 overall then was thrown to the wolves too soon, behind a sub-par line, while being directed by the ultimate quarterback killer Chris Palmer. Had great promise from an athletic standpoint, but never reached potential. Team fault or player fault? Either can be justified. He made too many mental mistakes, but how much of a mind did he have left after the beating he took? Also perceived to not be passionate or committed to the game, but more involved in faith and family. Good traits, unless you play football apparently.

Bottom line - he has a ring and the Texans don't.

santo
04-25-2014, 11:48 AM
My favorite part?

Add this to the list of quotes you'd never hear from Andrew Luck.

Or any other good quarterback for that matter.

:mariopalm:

PapaL
04-25-2014, 11:55 AM
Wonderful, more DC talk.

Synopsis of a career:

Drafted #1 overall then was thrown to the wolves too soon, behind a sub-par line, while being directed by the ultimate quarterback killer Chris Palmer. Had great promise from an athletic standpoint, but never reached potential. Team fault or player fault? Either can be justified. He made too many mental mistakes, but how much of a mind did he have left after the beating he took? Also perceived to not be passionate or committed to the game, but more involved in faith and family. Good traits, unless you play football apparently.

Bottom line - he has a ring and the Texans don't.

Who gives a crap that he has a ring he didn't earn? The Seahawks K, P, and LS have rings too. At least they got on the field and earned theirs.

thunderkyss
04-25-2014, 11:57 AM
The problem with Carr's biatching about his offensive line is that his last season here he was sacked a ton and the next season, behind the same offensive line, Schaub was sacked far less and was way more productive than Carr was. Carr didn't put in the work required to be a good NFL QB and he has only himself to blame. Yes, the o-line stunk but I think he made it look way worse than it really was because he sucked so bad.

I thought he was put in a bad situation, but he handled it well, very well the first couple of years; 2002, 2003. Dude impressed the crap out of me with his toughness.

I don't think he sacked himself any more than any other 1st or 2nd yr NFL QB during that time. My problem with David was that midway through the 2004 season, it looked like he gave up. Just said, "Fk it. I'm not going to get killed for this crap."

At that point, there were two things he could have done. He could have quit, like he did. Or he could have stepped up his game, to another level. It's possible that he had tried to get to that other level the first half of that season & just couldn't, then he's got no other choice but to protect himself.

I fault the Texans more than anything for not seeing that. As soon as his game became more about self preservation, he doesn't need to be on the field. & if he hadn't inspired that team to win after 2 and a half years, if he hadn't established himself as the team leader by then, it's time to move on.

I know we argued here about whether he was a leader or not, but it shouldn't have been a question in his third season. & the Texans should have known. Looking at how his career has turned out since, I can't imagine I was wrong about what I thought of him at that time... & the Texans should have known.

kingtexan
04-25-2014, 12:15 PM
Who gives a crap that he has a ring he didn't earn? The Seahawks K, P, and LS have rings too. At least they got on the field and earned theirs.

Well, he earned the right to be on the team. Have to give him that.

He beat out other players to be there.

Double Barrel
04-25-2014, 12:53 PM
I think 'fault' lies with both the franchise and the player.

Rookie QB thrown to the wolves behind a Swiss cheese line without a dedicated quarterback coach.

Rookie QB with a poor work ethic that did not understand how to study the game.

I have no hard feelings about David Carr. Speculation will always be in our fanbase regarding his potential and how he would have done on an established team. But, dude got paid - one estimate was over $60 million as a Houston Texan - so it is what it is at this point.

In the end, let's just blame Charlie Casserly. He's a jackass and deserves all of it. :fingergun:

Wolf
04-25-2014, 12:53 PM
If I recall chris palmer was his offensive coordinator in 2002

. Which he also was his qb coach in 2007


Hindsight I always wondered why capers didnt put in Tony banks in. Just to save Carr from the pummeling but also help him see how banks ran the Texans offense. Just to get some game film. However whe. You are shelling g out so much money on a rookie. It seems he had better be starting

Double Barrel
04-25-2014, 01:10 PM
Hindsight I always wondered why capers didnt put in Tony banks in. Just to save Carr from the pummeling but also help him see how banks ran the Texans offense. Just to get some game film. However whe. You are shelling g out so much money on a rookie. It seems he had better be starting

I honestly think it was more a marketing decision. Carr, with his chiseled chin and all-American looks, made the Texans uniform look good.

yeah, it's a jaded perspective, but the decision to start rookie Carr never made much sense from a football strategy pov.

19-10 set our expectations too high, as well.

infantrycak
04-25-2014, 08:38 PM
If I recall chris palmer was his offensive coordinator in 2002

. Which he also was his qb coach in 2007

Palmer was his OC 2002-5 with the Texans.

They were reunited 2008-9 with the Giants. Carr was in Carolina for 2007 while Palmer was in his 1st season with the Giants. So Carr knew Palmer was the QB coach when he joined the Giants and it was reported Palmer was recruiting him. Kind of makes you think Carr didn't blame Palmer for anything that happened with the Texans.


Hindsight I always wondered why capers didnt put in Tony banks in. Just to save Carr from the pummeling but also help him see how banks ran the Texans offense. Just to get some game film. However whe. You are shelling g out so much money on a rookie. It seems he had better be starting

It was reported their intention was to start Banks for part of the season but they decided Carr had won the job from Banks in TC.

kingtexan
04-28-2014, 06:27 PM
Kind of makes you think Carr didn't blame Palmer for anything that happened with the Texans.

No one ever said he was a very bright kid.

Txn_in_Oki
04-28-2014, 07:51 PM
David Carr was out first draft pick ever, and that was a terrible decision. He was not prepared to come to this team and the team was not ready to start a rookie quarterback... not even close. It sucks and probably set this team back further than it needed to be.

That being said... when are we going to stop opening this wound up? Houston fans seem to be amoung the worst at loving to inflict pain upon themselves.

Double Barrel
04-29-2014, 10:10 AM
That being said... when are we going to stop opening this wound up? Houston fans seem to be amoung the worst at loving to inflict pain upon themselves.

If we didn't have bad memories as Houston football fans, we'd have no memories at all.*

:kubepalm:

*except 19-10! hehe ;)