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Kaiser Toro
09-11-2007, 11:07 AM
I watched the Short Cut production from the Superfan package and it was missing the first seven minutes of the second quarter so I am missing some film. I will be recording the full game broadcast moving forward.

I basically watched the DL, ST, a little of the secondary and the OL

Special Teams
Not overly excited except for Turk. He adds a huge component that has never been there before. Kick coverage was fair at best. Mathis needs to grow a pair or Marciano needs to get him out of there as I fear he will get injured as he is providing no value. Moreover, Bennett beat him down the sidelines on Punt coverage with 1:1 blocking. Granted Mathis had a little extra room to cover, but worth noting. Props go to Kris Brown for a nice tackle after Mathis whiffed.

DL
Outside of Mario's gaudy stats, specifically the 3rd quarter, there is still the evident lack of instinct and technique. He did have some QB hurries but these are still predicated on a bull rush. As we play against quality teams he will be exposed at times. His first sack was terrific as he was engaged by 3 OLMen from KC, which looked like a stunt with Kalu. Kalu came around the outside and corralled the QB in to Mario. Kalu was fantastic - great motor, low center of gravity, no wasted motions and attacked seemingly at the right angles. His "Karate Kalu" sack appeared to be a stunt where he came from the left side and went around the other DT and DE. A stunt I saw with Mario and TJ looked painfully slow. Amobi did look tired at times and believe the offsides call was because of it in the 3rd quarter. Amobi did have a nice spin out as the direction of a play reversed (showing vision and dexterity). He dropped back in coverage once in a two minute drill. Amobi also had two nice chips on Mario's return for TD. Much like Mario we will see flashes, but I think Amobi is more of a football player at this point - age, putting on the right weight and conditioning at this level are the issues. TJ's interception was terrific and his rah-rah style was evident and maybe even catchy for others on the field. I liked it when Mario got in Gonzalez's ear hole after his offensive pass interference. Weaver looked slow at times, I hope this is a conditioning issue because outside of him being a great guy I have not seen any value here since we signed him.

Secondary
We brought some hits - Hutchins and Fletcher both had hits that led to turn overs. Faggins played better, but the competition concerns me for an honest eval. Fletcher whiffed on a tackle on LJ in space. CC Brown needs to learn one skill to excel at or forget about starting in this league. Dunta came back on the field to watch over Simmons when he was down and then transported to the cart - that showed me something.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2007, 11:15 AM
OL
McKinney on 1:1 blocking is an absolute liability. When he has help he is fine, but three times he got blown up on different downs and in different situations (these were not blitz situations). Pitts may have had his worst game since his rookie year - his pulls were off as he missed his guy on one (bad angle) and on the other was called for holding. Pitts chipped on two of McKinney's blow ups, which came right after a Pitts' hold. All in all our OL wore down the KC DL in the fourth, which was reminiscient of the Indy game, consequently, I feel an identity beginning to form. I would be remiss not to add Leach and Dayne to that identity as well. Owen Daniels pulled on one play and whiffed on his block, otherwsie Green may have taken it to the house.

threetoedpete
09-11-2007, 11:19 AM
Outside of Mario's gaudy stats, specifically the 3rd quarter, there is still the evident lack of instinct and technique. He did have some QB hurries but these are still predicated on a bull rush.

Just let us know when he passes the toro bust line there torro. The fact of the matter is as of today, he has more Td's than Reggie Bush. and he's tied with Saint Vincent. Get over it. Mario is all over the feild and made plays all game long from his DE position. Wanna say K.C's oline sucks fine. the guy is a beast starting to emegre. Won't happen every game. Won't be spectacular plays every series. But it should be obvios by now, he is a player. And the more experence he gains the more difficult it will be for the other clubs to deal with. Let the water walkers go. They did the correct thing in the '06 draft.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2007, 11:21 AM
Just let us know when he passes the toro bust line there torro. The fact of the matter is as of today, he has more Td's than Reggie Bush. and he's tied with Saint Vincent. Get over it. Mario is all over the feild and made plays all game long from his DE position. Wanna say K.C's oline sucks fine. the guy is a beast starting to emegre. Won't happen evry game. Won't be spectacular plays every sereis. But it should be obvios by now, he is a player and the more experence he gains the more difficult it will be for the other clubs to deal with. Let the water walkers go. They did the correct thing in the '06 draft.

You obviously live on another planet or read every ninth word I post on this board.

real
09-11-2007, 11:22 AM
Lol

threetoedpete
09-11-2007, 11:24 AM
Well at least i was thoughtful enough to resond to your drivel. That's something.

Vinny
09-11-2007, 11:25 AM
Just let us know when he passes the toro bust line there torro. The fact of the matter is as of today, he has more Td's than Reggie Bush. and he's tied with Saint Vincent. Get over it. Mario is all over the feild and made plays all game long from his DE position. Wanna say K.C's oline sucks fine. the guy is a beast starting to emegre. Won't happen every game. Won't be spectacular plays every series. But it should be obvios by now, he is a player. And the more experence he gains the more difficult it will be for the other clubs to deal with. Let the water walkers go. They did the correct thing in the '06 draft.
Get over it? Why don't you get over it Pete...go drink another bloody mary. This forum is here for critical commentary and breaking down the game. Some people may have an opinion that you don't share. Seems to me the only person that needs to get over themselves is you.

I thought Mario had some moments but I agree that he was wooden out there far too much....also, you are the only one who keeps bringing up the draft when people are trying to talk some football....stay on topic

Double Barrel
09-11-2007, 11:26 AM
Nice analysis, KT, and thanks for taking the time to review and post.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2007, 11:32 AM
Well at least i was thoughtful enough to resond to your drivel. That's something.

Actually, I resonded to your resonce on the fact that I have been on the Mario bandwagon since about January of 2006. If you have not noticed I have been a vocal defender of Mario before we drafted him, since we drafted him and will remain. However, a result is to be viewed and used as a tool for development. In this medium it is for us to have some more acute observations to promote more football dialogue rather than the easy and weak banter regarding other second year players, that all of us like to partake in every once in while. If you cannot decipher between the two you are less credible than I actually thought.

Double Barrel
09-11-2007, 11:35 AM
Let the water walkers go.

The fact of the matter is as of today, he has more Td's than Reggie Bush. and he's tied with Saint Vincent. Get over it.

You need to follow your own advice. Nobody brought up the '06 draft or those players except for you.

http://talesofthesevenseas.com/phpbb/images/smiles/forum%20smiley%20parrot.gif Mario has more TD's than Bush *squawk!*

Goldensilence
09-11-2007, 11:45 AM
Good points KT. Yeah i am nervous about McKinney as the year progresses.Definately something that needs to be addressed this year. Who knows maybe White can step it up.

Was good to see Travis and Mario do well this game. That was just a great football play to make the interception by Travis. First to recognize he wasn't goingto make it to the QB in time, next to see LJ slipping into the middle of the field and third to have the presence of mind to drop back and make a move on the football.Itwas really good to see the entire team getting stoked about each other's success.

powerfuldragon
09-11-2007, 11:50 AM
kalu was awesome.

nunusguy
09-11-2007, 12:06 PM
Good points KT. Yeah i am nervous about McKinney as the year progresses.Definately something that needs to be addressed this year. Who knows maybe White can step it up.


I would prefer Chris White to Flanagan, and they obviously think enough of him to keep him as their third center for fear of losing him permanently to another team.
But the one play where McKinney was manhandled by the big Chiefs DT was down right embarrasing. I dunno if I ever saw McKinney run that fast ? Problem was of course he was moving backwards and you were left with the impression that the Chiefs guy would still be moving him south had there
never been a whisle.
As I recall, Carolina has an outstanding DLine, atleast at DEs. Not sure about the tackles ? Lets hope SM does better Sunday.

threetoedpete
09-11-2007, 12:25 PM
Actually, I resonded to your resonce on the fact that I have been on the Mario bandwagon since about January of 2006. If you have not noticed I have been a vocal defender of Mario before we drafted him, since we drafted him and will remain. However, a result is to be viewed and used as a tool for development. In this medium it is for us to have some more acute observations to promote more football dialogue rather than the easy and weak banter regarding other second year players, that all of us like to partake in every once in while. If you cannot decipher between the two you are less credible than I actually thought.

Well when you're dead wrong, and I think you're dead wrong and the coach from his own mouth says your dead wrong, I'm going to call anyone on it. If I misread your knee jerk to Mario's game sunday I apologise. There is a faction who wishes for him to fail for no other reason than he is not VY or Reggie bush. Including you Vinny...

Y'all want me gone I'll go. You want Walt Disney world in here that's fine by me. Crap is crap. dialoge or not you post crap I'll rise to the bait. You can bet on that.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=703006&postcount=12

HoustonFrog
09-11-2007, 12:40 PM
Well when you're dead wrong, and I think you're dead wrong and the coach from his own mouth says your dead wrong, I'm going to call anyone on it. If I misread your knee jerk to Mario's game sunday I apologise. There is a faction who wishes for him to fail for no other reason than he is not VY or Reggie bush. Including you Vinny...

Y'all want me gone I'll go. You want Walt Disney world in here that's fine by me. Crap is crap. dialoge or not you post crap I'll rise to the bait. You can bet on that.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=703006&postcount=12

You took a well reasoned, in depth analysis and turned it into a Bush and VY rant by comparing TDs and other inane topics. You got issues and a weak array of football knowledge.

euro-Texan
09-11-2007, 12:41 PM
I think everyone needs to lay off Mario for at least this week as he is in the running for the Freaking DEFENSIVE PLAYER FOR THE WEEK! He is quickly moving in the right direction and showed more promise than fault Sunday. There aere areas of the team where concern is warranted, but please no Mario bashing this week.

HoustonFrog
09-11-2007, 12:43 PM
I would prefer Chris White to Flanagan, and they obviously think enough of him to keep him as their third center for fear of losing him permanently to another team.
But the one play where McKinney was manhandled by the big Chiefs DT was down right embarrasing. I dunno if I ever saw McKinney run that fast ? Problem was of course he was moving backwards and you were left with the impression that the Chiefs guy would still be moving him south had there
never been a whisle.
As I recall, Carolina has an outstanding DLine, atleast at DEs. Not sure about the tackles ? Lets hope SM does better Sunday.

McKinney, without rewatching the game, was embarrassing at times. There was a stretch where he got just manhandled and at one point just turtled while the Chiefs walked into the backfield. As someone on here put it in the Game thread..Schaub might as well have snapped it to himself.

I think everyone needs to lay off Mario for at least this week as he is in the running for the Freaking DEFENSIVE PLAYER FOR THE WEEK! He is quickly moving in the right direction and showed more promise than fault Sunday. There aere areas of the team where concern is warranted, but please no Mario bashing this week.

I don't see Mario bashing. He played a real solid game. I think people are critiquing as a football coach would and are trying to figure out how he can use his athleticism and size to the best of his ability. that is what the board is for....football X and Os.

Porky
09-11-2007, 12:44 PM
Nobody in this thread is "bashing" Mario. I saw a very good analysis by KT, nothing more, nothing less. If it's a lovefest you want, this isn't the board for you. This place is for real analysis and insight, and I for one thank KT very much for his insightful analysis. Good work!:texflag:

Brando
09-11-2007, 12:45 PM
I watched the game on Superfan. I have to say that is worth $99. You can watch a whole game within 30 minutes. Awesome.

As far as the game is concerned, I wonder why they decided not to show the Special Teams fumble recovery. To me that was the biggest play of the game because the momentum went in our favor after that play.

euro-Texan
09-11-2007, 12:55 PM
Nobody in this thread is "bashing" Mario. I saw a very good analysis by KT, nothing more, nothing less. If it's a lovefest you want, this isn't the board for you. This place is for real analysis and insight, and I for one thank KT very much for his insightful analysis. Good work!:texflag:

Look, His insight and analysis is his opinion. The truth is that our biggest concern was LJ and our D shut him down. I don't have a problem with being critical with players and their play, but jumping all over another fan because he disagrees is wrong. I'f I were after a lovefest believe me I would have given up on this team by now.

Porky
09-11-2007, 01:04 PM
Look, His insight and analysis is his opinion. The truth is that our biggest concern was LJ and our D shut him down. I don't have a problem with being critical with players and their play, but jumping all over another fan because he disagrees is wrong. I'f I were after a lovefest believe me I would have given up on this team by now.

I'm not sure you understand the history or context, I'll leave it at that.

HOU-TEX
09-11-2007, 01:25 PM
Look, His insight and analysis is his opinion. The truth is that our biggest concern was LJ and our D shut him down. I don't have a problem with being critical with players and their play, but jumping all over another fan because he disagrees is wrong. I'f I were after a lovefest believe me I would have given up on this team by now.

I think it's more understanding the game of football and recognizing what players do wrong and right than it is opinion. But whatev:)

I agree 100% with his analysis and appreciate the time taken to provide it.:texflag:

Silver Oak
09-11-2007, 01:30 PM
Those Short Cuts are great!

eriadoc
09-11-2007, 01:50 PM
I went back and watched the fumble again last night, and it was pretty clearly a fumble, IMO. He caught it and turned, and had both feet on the ground before the ball came out. Nice hit by our guy.

The O-Line still has issues. McKinney doesn't have the talent necessary to effectively pass protect on a consistent basis. He is pretty good in the running game, though. On the play where Schaub got blindsided, Salaam blocked no one. I mean no one. He didn't touch a soul. He didn't get blown by or anything, he just planned on engaging someone else and Pitts got him. The sack from Boone (was it Boone?) was also like that - a miscommunication between Pitts and McKinney. The line still has some execution issues. The only obvious overmatch, in terms of talent or physicality, is McKinney.

That drive to end the game is the best drive by a Texans team ever.

Double Barrel
09-11-2007, 02:01 PM
That drive to end the game is the best drive by a Texans team ever.

It was a work of art.

But, I'd say the drive to take the lead during last year's win over Indy has to rank right up there with it, too. We just haven't seen much of them in our first five seasons to count.

texasguy346
09-11-2007, 02:01 PM
His first sack was terrific as he was engaged by 3 OLMen from KC, which looked like a stunt with Kalu. Kalu came around the outside and corralled the QB in to Mario. Kalu was fantastic - great motor, low center of gravity, no wasted motions and attacked seemingly at the right angles. His "Karate Kalu" sack appeared to be a stunt where he came from the left side and went around the other DT and DE.

Mario's sack where he took on 3 OLinemen was really something to watch. I haven't watched the game on DVR yet, but even at the game I noticed him fighting through the double team. Then on the replay on the screen I saw the third OLineman. That was one of the first times I found myself thinking what a beast Mario was, and I thought myself that he looked fired up. I hope to see more glimpses like that this season from Mario, and the defense as a whole.

As far as Kalu I'm glad to be wrong about him. When we first signed him I thought it was a bit of an odd move to bring in an aging DE, but he's been a great player & leader for our defense.

I've got alot of the same concerns with Weaver as you do, and it looks to me as if he'll end up being yet another big contract given to the wrong player by this FO. I hope I'm wrong, but I just haven't seen much from him to show me he's worth the money.

Double Barrel
09-11-2007, 02:11 PM
D.Rob said he called Mario out in the huddle during the 3rd qtr. by telling him he hasn't heard the big guy's name, yet. Maybe Mario just needs a guy like Robinson to get on him for motivation. Whatever was said, it seemed to have worked!

eriadoc
09-11-2007, 02:11 PM
It was a work of art.

But, I'd say the drive to take the lead during last year's win over Indy has to rank right up there with it, too. We just haven't seen much of them in our first five seasons to count.

Yep. The reason I rank this one the highest is because I had that nervous "ohmygod, how are we going to lose this one?" feeling, and they did exactly what some of the best teams do. It was reminiscent of Riggins and the Hogs just stuffing the ball down KC's throats. Anything that can allay my conditioned fears gets a huge thumbs up from me.

Double Barrel
09-11-2007, 02:13 PM
I hear ya', man. I had that same gut feeling, too. Kubiak said they were going to run it and he knew the Chiefs were preparing for it, and it was a good sign that we were successful when all the chips were on the table.

Goldensilence
09-11-2007, 02:18 PM
Yep. The reason I rank this one the highest is because I had that nervous "ohmygod, how are we going to lose this one?" feeling, and they did exactly what some of the best teams do. It was reminiscent of Riggins and the Hogs just stuffing the ball down KC's throats. Anything that can allay my conditioned fears gets a huge thumbs up from me.

Had the same kind of gut feeling myself espcially after KC drove the ball down the field and at least our D stepped up enough to hold them to a field goal. IMO what would've topped everything off is going for it on 4th which seemed to be Kubiak's first thought. I didn't really think about it until the time was displayed on the TV then was like Holy Crap.You're right...good teams make drives to ice the game. KC was stunned as you could tell from the sideline pics.

Vinny
09-11-2007, 02:20 PM
D.Rob said he called Mario out in the huddle during the 3rd qtr. by telling him he hasn't heard the big guy's name, yet. Maybe Mario just needs a guy like Robinson to get on him for motivation. Whatever was said, it seemed to have worked! Robinson demanded more out of Mario...lots of talk about needing a vocal leader on the team...that's what a leader does.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2007, 03:41 PM
Well when you're dead wrong, and I think you're dead wrong and the coach from his own mouth says your dead wrong, I'm going to call anyone on it. If I misread your knee jerk to Mario's game sunday I apologise. There is a faction who wishes for him to fail for no other reason than he is not VY or Reggie bush. Including you Vinny...

Y'all want me gone I'll go. You want Walt Disney world in here that's fine by me. Crap is crap. dialoge or not you post crap I'll rise to the bait. You can bet on that.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=703006&postcount=12

Dead wrong? Once again I believe in Mario before he was a Texan based on fiscal and personnel variables and have promoted the team line in his contribution to the defensive unit as a whole, and I spoke to them ad nauseum.

You are off base barking up this tree, but do see how one can make that jump to a conclusion based on other's takes. I feel confident that my post history states Carr sucks, Mario was the need and will be a cornerstone of our future. The words "Mario, sucks, failure" have never been posted together from these cold dead fingers.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2007, 03:52 PM
The thing I forgot to mention was that we saw the shovel pass for the first time this year in Sunday's game, at least from the first unit upon my recollection. Kind of get the feeling that an actual playbook is starting to be opened up.

Runner
09-11-2007, 05:22 PM
The O-Line still has issues. ...On the play where Schaub got blindsided, Salaam blocked no one. I mean no one. He didn't touch a soul. He didn't get blown by or anything, he just planned on engaging someone else and Pitts got him. The sack from Boone (was it Boone?) was also like that - a miscommunication between Pitts and McKinney. The line still has some execution issues...

That drive to end the game is the best drive by a Texans team ever.

They were much better overall in run blocking than pass blocking, I thought. They looked bad at times and decent at times in pass blocking. Schaub took advantage of the times they were decent. At this point - after one game - I think they are about the same as last year in terms of consistency and execution.

I think they may still have some scheming issues that contribute to what looks like poor execution.

real
09-11-2007, 05:27 PM
The
I think they may still have some scheming issues that contribute to what looks like poor execution.


I just can't get down with the thought that these NFL guys (Kubiak and Sherman amongst others on our staff) can't scheme pass protection.

I really don't think that's a problem. JMO.

Joe Texan
09-11-2007, 05:32 PM
You always have some who see the glass half empty, I see it full to the brim and this is going to be a great season. Especially when we smash the teetons.

Runner
09-11-2007, 05:42 PM
I just can't get down with the thought that these NFL guys (Kubiak and Sherman amongst others on our staff) can't scheme pass protection.

I really don't think that's a problem. JMO.

Yep - we've disagreed on this before. I think coaches frequently make mistakes. I think players also execute poorly at times. I don't think every o-line problem is due to poor execution though. Some are the result of other teams looking at our schemes and finding a way to beat them. At that point, I expect the Texans coaches to adjust their schemes - I don't want to see them rely on "executing better" to fix problems.

The sack where Pitts doubled the end with Salaam leaving McKinney to get beat one on one was eerily similar to a play against the Patriots last year, except it was Hodgdon, Pitts, and Salaam.


Do all 32 teams have perfect schemes, or just ours? :)

edo783
09-11-2007, 10:10 PM
To me, it's more than a little scary that McKinny is the best center we have. I hope that was just rust showing because he didn't play much center in preseason. Look for the Panthers to come up the middle on passing downs after they see that on film.

real
09-11-2007, 10:40 PM
Yep - we've disagreed on this before. I think coaches frequently make mistakes. I think players also execute poorly at times. I don't think every o-line problem is due to poor execution though. Some are the result of other teams looking at our schemes and finding a way to beat them. At that point, I expect the Texans coaches to adjust their schemes - I don't want to see them rely on "executing better" to fix problems.

The sack where Pitts doubled the end with Salaam leaving McKinney to get beat one on one was eerily similar to a play against the Patriots last year, except it was Hodgdon, Pitts, and Salaam.


Do all 32 teams have perfect schemes, or just ours? :)



There is no such thing as a "perfect" scheme in the essence of "this scheme is designed to be effective against whatever you throw at us"...

Sometimes the defense just guesses right....Heard it plenty times before...

Like that 3rd down last week when they blitz right in Schaub's face on the play fake...he scrambled to his right a little bit to get outside the tackle and he threw it away...and we kicked a field goal....Defense guessed right...They brought a blitz from the side we were play faking away from...That'd be like sending a blitz on a bootleg with the linebacker coming from the side Schaub's rolling out to..

Sometimes the defense has the perfect defense called for the play that you're running...

On the play you're talking about with Pitts, he just made a mistake...

Yes coaches make mistakes, but I personally don't think our schemes are poorly designed....really complicated?....yes....A lot of people really don't realize just how complicated pass pro schemes are...I have no clue exactly what it is the Texans do protection wise, but I know some of the basic things they do... But when you live and breath it, it becomes almost second nature....The coaches have lived and breathed football for a long time...At this point in their minds, all of this stuff probably fits like a puzzle...Between Sherman and Kubiak, I would be really shocked and dissapointed if they have installed a faulty pass blocking scheme...


I would think the players would have a little less faith in the coaches if they were reviewing film and trying to figure out what went wrong on a play and it was determined that the scheme was faulty....Yeah, I'm thinking Kubiak and Sherman are more capable offensive minds than you give them credit for...

Besides...The "schemes" probably change up or are tweaked a little from week to week based on what kind of defense we're playing and the personnel...Whereas against the Colts you may allow your RB's to block DE's you may not block that way against the Panthers...

Sorry for the rant, but I just can't imagine that Sherman and Kubiak combined could be that incompetent as to not have a sturdy blocking scheme in place. That'd be really poor on their behalf. Especially considering they're offensive guys, their lineage, their background and how long they've been around the game of football.

That just doesn't seem very likely to me..


P.S. about the all 32 teams thing....I would be shocked if there was any coach in the NFL that had a faulty pass blocking scheme in place...

1) Football is learned...Coaches aren't creating offensive schemes out of thin air...They have learned these offenses through being around them and playing in them...They may add their own wrinkles and plays, but the fundamentals are the same 2) Some schemes may not fit the the personnel, but that's something totally different

MissouriTexan
09-11-2007, 10:54 PM
There is no such thing as a "perfect" scheme in the essence of "this scheme is designed to be effective against whatever you throw at us"...

Sometimes the defense just guesses right....Heard it plenty times before...

Like that 3rd down last week when they blitz right in Schaub's face on the play fake...he scrambled to his right a little bit to get outside the tackle and he threw it away...and we kicked a field goal....Defense guessed right...They brought a blitz from the side we were play faking away from...That'd be like sending a blitz on a bootleg with the linebacker coming from the side Schaub rolling out to..

Sometimes the defense has the perfect defense called for the play that you're running...

On the play you're talking about with Pitts, he just made a mistake...

Yes coaches make mistakes, but I personally don't think our schemes are poorly designed....really complicated?....yes....A lot of people really don't realize just how complicated pass pro schemes are...I have no clue exactly what it is the Texans do protection wise, but I know some of the basic things they do... But when you live and breath it, it becomes almost second nature....The coaches have lived and breathed football for a long time...At this point in their minds, all of this stuff probably fits like a puzzle...Between Sherman and Kubiak, I would be really shocked and dissapointed if they have installed a faulty pass blocking scheme...


I would think the players would have a little less faith in the coaches if they were reviewing film and trying to figure out what went wrong on a play and it was determined that the scheme was faulty....Yeah, I'm thinking Kubiak and Sherman are more capable offensive minds than you give them credit for...

Besides...The "schemes" probably change up or are tweaked a little from week to week based on what kind of defense we're playing and the personnel...Whereas against the Colts you may allow your RB's to block DE's you may not block that way against the Panthers...

Sorry for the rant, but I just can't imagine that Sherman and Kubiak combined could be that incompetent as to not have a sturdy blocking scheme in place. That'd be really poor on their behalf. Especially considering they're offensive guys, their lineage, their background and how long they've been around the game of football.

That just doesn't seem very likely to me..


P.S. about the all 32 teams thing....I would be shocked if there was any coach in the NFL that had a faulty pass blocking scheme in place...

1) Football is learned...Coaches aren't creating offensive schemes out of thin air...They have learned these offenses through being around them and playing in them...They may add their own wrinkles and plays, but the fundamentals are the same 2) Some schemes may not fit the the personnel, but that's something totally different
Amen!

Runner
09-11-2007, 11:00 PM
Between Sherman and Kubiak, I would be really shocked and dissapointed if they have installed a faulty pass blocking scheme...


Two good coaches with somewhat conflicting approaches. I think a lot of football fans have been shocked and disappointed in coaches before.

I certainly entertain the notion that players make mistakes. I also consider the idea that the schemes may not have all the kinks worked out.

Yeah, I'm thinking Kubiak and Sherman are more capable offensive minds than you give them credit for...


This was a basic ad hominem argument and not germane to the point under discussion, but...

I think they are great coaches. I just don't think everything they do is automatically right and must go unquestioned because "Kubiak and Sherman did it". I am talking about one specific aspect of the game where they may not have everything in place. That doesn't equate to me not giving them credit.

Runner
09-11-2007, 11:19 PM
Sorry for the rant, but I just can't imagine that Sherman and Kubiak combined could be that incompetent as to not have a sturdy blocking scheme in place. That'd be really poor on their behalf. Especially considering they're offensive guys, their lineage, their background and how long they've been around the game of football.

That just doesn't seem very likely to me..


P.S. about the all 32 teams thing....I would be shocked if there was any coach in the NFL that had a faulty pass blocking scheme in place...

1) Football is learned...Coaches aren't creating offensive schemes out of thin air...They have learned these offenses through being around them and playing in them...They may add their own wrinkles and plays, but the fundamentals are the same 2) Some schemes may not fit the the personnel, but that's something totally different

So is it just pass blocking schemes, because those are special in some way, or do all offenses in the league have un-faulty passing attacks, running plays, run blocking, etc.? Or do coaches only not make mistakes on in pass blocking schemes? What about the defenses - those coaches are professional and learned too.

I see a lot of words, but they boil down to the league doesn't have faulty pass blocking schemes. What makes them so special?

2) Some schemes may not fit the the personnel, but that's something totally different

Totally different? Sounds like this is an example of coaches putting in a faulty scheme for their team.

real
09-11-2007, 11:20 PM
I just don't think everything they do is automatically right and must go unquestioned because "Kubiak and Sherman did it".

Ad hominem...lol...it was, wasn't it!


But I don't disagree with you that they make mistakes, but I just can't see them having a faulty blocking scheme in place...I think that'd be a little remedial...

No matter how much football a person watches, they will never be able to take an NFL team and coach it...One can watch football for their whole lifetime, and they still wouldn't even be able to be a position coach...

People can't sit down and teach you how to be a coach from scratch...It's something you learn from being in the system...From being around the system...

When a coach has control over a team from top to bottom, all he is going to do is take little things that he's learned from over the years and implement them in the fashion that he thinks will be most effective...

I seriously doubt Sherman and Kubiak have created anything...All they are doing is what they've been taught and what they've learned over the years...Football is passed on for the most part...That's why when new offenses are created it's a big thing...ala the west coast offense...Offenses aren't just the routes and such...It's the whole freakin offense...from the blocking scheme, to the route design, to timing...

I can't see Kubiak and Sherman experimenting with schems just drawing stuff up and expecting it to work...As I said; I think the team in general would have a little less confidence in Kubes if our schemes were faulty...I think they'd realize it pretty quick that Kubes was a doofus....

That'd be like a math teacher trying to teach you how to figure out an equation and they ended up doing the problem wrong....Yeah, I'm not going to think very highly of that teacher...

Runner
09-11-2007, 11:22 PM
Peace. We are at loggerheads here. Time to move on.


p.s. I must state for the record I don't think Kubiak and Sherman are incompetent as I seem to be characterized as doing. I think they might have some areas of the offense they need to work on, but overall they are doing a very good job. After about 8 games I'll see if I can knudge that to excellent. It'll take a full season to be spectacular.

real
09-11-2007, 11:26 PM
So is it just pass blocking schemes, because those are special in some way, or do all offenses in the league have un-faulty passing attacks, running plays, run blocking, etc.? Or do coaches only not make mistakes on in pass blocking schemes? What about the defenses - those coaches are professional and learned too.

I see a lot of words, but they boil down to the league doesn't have faulty pass blocking schemes. What makes them so special?



Totally different? Sounds like this is an example of coaches putting in a faulty scheme for their team.


Football is basic.

There aren't too many different ways to pass block.

We aren't going to have linemen looping around and doing stunts to block...

How many differnt kinds of offenses do you think there are ?

Look at the coaching lineages...These guys all come up under someone else...They all learn what it is they do from someone else...These schemes you see today have just been tweaked and wrinkles have been added...

Who has created a new offense ?

This stuff just gets passed down...Kubiak and Sherman are knowledgeable and experienced....not innovative...

Malloy
09-12-2007, 02:57 AM
D.Rob said he called Mario out in the huddle during the 3rd qtr. by telling him he hasn't heard the big guy's name, yet. Maybe Mario just needs a guy like Robinson to get on him for motivation. Whatever was said, it seemed to have worked!

We talked about this a few months back, and I still hate the fact that Mario needs someone to motivate him to perform. I'm not saying this is the case (need to point that out or Pete will accuse me of being a Vince-lover), but if it IS the case, then something's wrong with Mario.

Malloy
09-12-2007, 03:03 AM
The thing I forgot to mention was that we saw the shovel pass for the first time this year in Sunday's game, at least from the first unit upon my recollection. Kind of get the feeling that an actual playbook is starting to be opened up.

I loved the shovel pass, caught everyone, including myself off guard! :)

dalemurphy
09-12-2007, 03:22 AM
We talked about this a few months back, and I still hate the fact that Mario needs someone to motivate him to perform. I'm not saying this is the case (need to point that out or Pete will accuse me of being a Vince-lover), but if it IS the case, then something's wrong with Mario.

Do you remember what it was like to be 22 years old?