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View Full Version : Texans trade Babin for safety Boulware !


nunusguy
09-01-2007, 11:18 AM
The Texans traded defensive end Jason Babin to Seattle today for safety Michael Boulware.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5101129.html

GlassHalfFull
09-01-2007, 11:20 AM
Just saw that. I hate to see Babin go, but the safety position needed shoring up.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 11:20 AM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/Hoth-Boy/Oyeah_viv1.gif

disaacks3
09-01-2007, 11:21 AM
Just saw it too. My first reaction is EEEK! I was hoping Babin was finally settling into a spot, but I guess the coaches have given up some of that hope.

We definitely NEED a safety, but was this move worth it?


Not exactly a GLOWING endorsement. (http://www.kirotv.com/nfl085/13967898/detail.html)

"The Seahawks' safety gave up a team-high seven touchdown passes last season, according to statistical service StatsPass, while serving as a primary target for opponents on a Seattle defense that surrendered a whopping 55 plays of at least 20 yards."

"The fourth-year veteran and second-round draft choice in 2004 from Florida State was anything but blessed in '06. He lost a starting job for the first time in his life, spending half of the 16 regular season games as a substitute and on special teams. The lowest point came Dec. 24 when San Diego's Vincent Jackson slipped behind him for a 37-yard touchdown with 29 seconds left to give the Chargers a 20-17 win.

After that game, Boulware openly cried in the locker room. Yes, he was a target last season. Opposing offenses exploited his tendency to play like the college linebacker he was and not the NFL safety he is. And Seahawks fans directed their ire at him for Seattle's penchant to give up huge plays."

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 11:24 AM
Just saw it too. My first reaction is EEEK! I was hoping Babin was finally settling into a spot, but I guess the coaches have given up some of that hope.

We definitely NEED a safety, but was this move worth it?

I think with the emergence of Orr and Cocharn, plus Kalu and Weaver (when he reurns) and then Mario I think this was a move we could defiantly afford to make.

I've been a Boulware fan since he entered the draft.

dickieb
09-01-2007, 11:25 AM
Wow, I guess Kubiak's talk of MOVES did mean a trade was coming.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 11:26 AM
Wait, wait, wait..

HARRISON IR'd?!

Marcus
09-01-2007, 11:26 AM
Holy ****!

HOLY ****!

Boy, was I wrong on that one. I didn't figure there was any way in the world they'd pull a deal off like that at this stage.

Man alive.

Hardcore Texan
09-01-2007, 11:30 AM
Wow, I am not sure what to think as I don't anything about Boulware.

Anyone have insight on the caliber of player this guys is?

Babin was having a pretty good pre-season I thought, I really hope it was worth it On the flip side, I am glad we added a safety if he's good.

Marcus
09-01-2007, 11:30 AM
We definitely NEED a safety, but was this move worth it?

Like they say, you have to give up something to get something.

Look at the bright side. Most of you were declaring Babin a bust in earlier seasons anyway. Would you ever have dreamed that they could get Boulware for Babin staight up?

Don't think so.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 11:30 AM
Wait, wait, wait..

HARRISON IR'd?!

Between the "supposed" hammy pull and the concusion he suffered last week (or was it Mitchell) not overly shocking, might be better for us then to try and sneak him across the waiver wire.

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 11:30 AM
wow...pretty shocking. Babin has been one of our best pass rushers. It's time for Mario to step up!

I like that we're getting a quality safety, though. It has been one of the weakest aspects of the team.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 11:31 AM
Just saw it too. My first reaction is EEEK! I was hoping Babin was finally settling into a spot, but I guess the coaches have given up some of that hope.

We definitely NEED a safety, but was this move worth it?

Michael Boulware is a freak....dude has great size and is a big hitter (converted linebacker out of college...I actually wanted to draft him)....but gives up tons of big plays in space. He's been a big disappointment in Seattle....frankly I kinda like the trade however. We could use the run support since I wasn't impressed at all with CC Brown as a SS. We will still have issues with safety play in space/coverage. I don't know if I'd call him a "quality safety" though....he is a physical freak (great speed for his size) however.

http://www.texanstalk.com/content/view/31/16/

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 11:35 AM
Michael Boulware is a freak....dude has great size and is a big hitter (converted linebacker out of college...I actually wanted to draft him)....but gives up tons of big plays in space. He's been a big disappointment in Seattle....frankly I kinda like the trade however. We could use the run support since I wasn't impressed at all with CC Brown as a SS. We will still have issues with safety play in space/coverage. I don't know if I'd call him a "quality safety" though....he is a physical freak (great speed for his size) however.

Yup he's pretty much a Roy Williams clone. Played LB at FSU (I think?), and I think he is defiantly now the best safety on our roster, but he is a SS.

I still like this deal alot, mainly because I think Boulware is better then all of our safties and I think Orr will make a better pass Down DE (as he is much better in spave then Babin).

YellerLotYeller
09-01-2007, 11:36 AM
6'3" 220...very nice. I hope he can do more than just be a runstopper.

JohnsonFan
09-01-2007, 11:36 AM
i really like this trade but the other DLineman are goign to have to step up!

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 11:37 AM
Michael Boulware is a freak....dude has great size and is a big hitter (converted linebacker out of college...I actually wanted to draft him)....but gives up tons of big plays in space. He's been a big disappointment in Seattle....frankly I kinda like the trade however. We could use the run support since I wasn't impressed at all with CC Brown as a SS. We will still have issues with safety play in space/coverage. I don't know if I'd call him a "quality safety" though....he is a physical freak (great speed for his size) however.

yeah, he was benched last October for giving up too many big plays. My perception of 'quality' is that they are better than what we've got, but it's not like pro-bowl quality or anything.

I think he'll give us good run support, but I'm still concerned about our pass defense considering we can barely muster a pass rush and just traded what is arguably the best pass rusher on the team.

Specnatz
09-01-2007, 11:37 AM
I thiught the team needed more of a FS versus SS? I have not seen many Seattle games, so I am not sure either on his play.

DBCooper
09-01-2007, 11:39 AM
Good move.

Boulware is a solid player.

Shows that the coaches are not worried about the defensive line also.

Smith and Kubiak sure aren't afraid to make moves. Smart moves also.

HJam72
09-01-2007, 11:39 AM
No, you can't run on our D, but just take the snap and immediately chunk a bomb as deep down-field as you can, because a receiver will catch it.

I said FREE-safety! :gun:

All-in-all, I guess this makes our team a little bit better, but I'm sure getting tired of hard-hitting DBs who can't cover receivers.

dickieb
09-01-2007, 11:40 AM
I thought Jason Simmons was doing okay, I would rather see him start than C.C. Brown. With Earl being injured and possibly being ready to go next year I would have figured we would have gone after a FS, but at least Rick Smith is making moves to help our football team get better. Because we have to admit most of us knew the safety position was weak before Earl got hurt, at least we are addresing it.

JohnsonFan
09-01-2007, 11:40 AM
its strange though i never thought we would trade babin!

Vinny
09-01-2007, 11:40 AM
I thiught the team needed more of a FS versus SS? I have not seen many Seattle games, so I am not sure either on his play.we need both...If you watch the Cowboy game it was CC Brown's sloppy approach that gave Terrell Owens the easy TD (Brown took a laughable angle).....I think the team knew it was in big trouble at both spots at that time.

nunusguy
09-01-2007, 11:44 AM
I thiught the team needed more of a FS versus SS? I have not seen many Seattle games, so I am not sure either on his play.
Remember all the talk about Earl and Brown both being SS ?
I dunno either, because this guy is definitely on Seattles DC as the #2 "SS", not FS. So I'm confused to because the big problem was FS, or so I thought ?

dickieb
09-01-2007, 11:45 AM
It kind of funny, we moved up in the 04 draft to take Babin in the 1st round and Boulware went in the 2nd round of the 04 draft. Just another knock against the C & C reign.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 11:47 AM
Remember all the talk about Earl and Brown both being SS ?
I dunno either, because this guy is definitely on Seattles DC as the #2 "SS", not FS. So I'm confused to because the big problem was FS, or so I thought ?

I think they just didn't like Simmons as the #1 SS. I think I like this trade but I'd still like to see a new FS.

I think our team just got a bit better. :texflag:

mexican_texan
09-01-2007, 11:49 AM
Thumbs down...

Vinny
09-01-2007, 11:50 AM
It kind of funny, we moved up in the 04 draft to take Babin in the 1st round and Boulware went in the 2nd round of the 04 draft. Just another knock against the C & C reign.I think they have both been dissapointments....I don't see this as a knock. Perhaps both guys will flourish with their second teams. Frankly they are both tweeners....neither played the position in College that they were drafted for. Hoth-Boy mentioned Roy Williams....he has a game very much like his...we need to blitz him and use him in run support and keep him out of too many one on one coverages like the Cowboys do with Williams. I wanted to draft him out of College a few years back....heck of a prospect at that time (http://football.about.com/cs/playerprofiles/p/michaelboulware.htm)...but was a tweener just like Babin was at his position. Babin wasn't going to get much time and was situational here....Boulware will be an instant starter...I think we did OK with this one.

mexican_texan
09-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Babin was our best pass rusher last year. Now we trade him for another Strong Safety...

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 11:56 AM
Babin was our best pass rusher last year. Now we trade him for another Strong Safety...

That's like saying "I'm the best athlete at Fat Camp"! We had a really, really bad pass rush last year, I'm shocked anybody gave us this kind of value for one of our DEs.

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 11:56 AM
we need both...If you watch the Cowboy game it was CC Brown's sloppy approach that gave Terrell Owens the easy TD (Brown took a laughable angle).....I think the team knew it was in big trouble at both spots at that time.

I think you're right on the money with this one, and the FO knew we'd be exploited if it wasn't addressed before the season starts.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 11:56 AM
Babin was our best pass rusher last year. Now we trade him for another Strong Safety...We are going to miss all 4 of those sacks.

gwallaia
09-01-2007, 11:59 AM
With this and the Lundy trade, my Madden line-up has to be changed.

mexican_texan
09-01-2007, 12:01 PM
We are going to miss all 4 of those sacks.
From what I've seen this preseason, we will.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 12:01 PM
With this and the Lundy trade, my Madden line-up has to be changed.

Don't you mean the Lundy cut?

Brando
09-01-2007, 12:01 PM
I think with the emergence of Orr and Cocharn, plus Kalu and Weaver (when he reurns) and then Mario I think this was a move we could defiantly afford to make.

I've been a Boulware fan since he entered the draft.
woohoo I wanted to draft him when he came out. He was a linebacker in college that was going to be shifted to Safety because of his body type.

I'm satisfied although I thought Babin was developing pretty good.


:doot:

bckey
09-01-2007, 12:01 PM
We still could grab a free safety off the waiver wire. Heck maybe the Chiefs will cut Greg Wesley now thinking the Texans don't want him anymore. We nab him and have a totally new starting safety tandem.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:03 PM
We still could grab a free safety off the waiver wire. Heck maybe the Chiefs will cut Greg Wesley now thinking the Texans don't want him anymore. We nab him and have a totally new starting safety tandem.Yeah...they may not be finished with their moves...at least we have a physical SS who can lay some wood in the secondary now...I'm pretty happy about that.

YoungTexanFan
09-01-2007, 12:04 PM
I liked Boulware coming into the draft, but he has been a disappoointment in the league. He has been misused. However, he has proved that he is not a FS, but more along the lines of a SS. My question is will he be expected to play a more glorified role of CC Brown trying to impersonate a FS, or is he going to play SS like he should?

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 12:05 PM
As soon as I get a pic of Boulware in a Texans uni, I'll add him to my TDC sig. Dude is all about demolition!

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 12:05 PM
We still could grab a free safety off the waiver wire. Heck maybe the Chiefs will cut Greg Wesley now thinking the Texans don't want him anymore. We nab him and have a totally new starting safety tandem.

Does not look like that is likely to happen:

per www.kffl.com

Chiefs | Wesley likely to remain with team
Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:21:46 -0700

Adam Teicher, of the Kansas City Star, reports Kansas City Chiefs FS Greg Wesley will likely begin the season with the team. The Chiefs discussed a trade involving Wesley with at least two teams, including the Denver Broncos and Houston Texans, but those talks cooled.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:05 PM
I liked Boulware coming into the draft, but he has been a disappoointment in the league. He has been misused. However, he has proved that he is not a FS, but more along the lines of a SS. My question is will he be expected to play a more glorified role of CC Brown trying to impersonate a FS, or is he going to play SS like he should?

I don't think the Seachickens ever used him at FS, nor did they misuse him...I believe he has been a SS his entire short career.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2007, 12:05 PM
My thoughts are , maybe our 180 lb CB won't be the hardest hitter in our secondary now .

I want WR's to have alligator arms when they go over the middle .

pappy
09-01-2007, 12:07 PM
Well we now probably now have a little more cap space so we can get a fs hopefully .

Brando
09-01-2007, 12:12 PM
I'm wondering if he starts Sunday or get's a little playing time?

I'm really happy about this move. He is instantly one of my favorite Texans.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 12:12 PM
I'm wondering if he starts Sunday or get's a little playing time?

I'd be willing to bet he starts.

Marcus
09-01-2007, 12:14 PM
I've been trying my best to get a Seahawks fan's take on this trade, but it's as if the sidewalks are still rolled up in Seattle.

Hey, at least it wasn't a Green Bay or Denver trade.

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 12:16 PM
Michael Boulware is a freak....dude has great size and is a big hitter (converted linebacker out of college...I actually wanted to draft him)....but gives up tons of big plays in space. He's been a big disappointment in Seattle....frankly I kinda like the trade however. We could use the run support since I wasn't impressed at all with CC Brown as a SS. We will still have issues with safety play in space/coverage. I don't know if I'd call him a "quality safety" though....he is a physical freak (great speed for his size) however.

Nice sum up.

I think it is interesting how both Babin and Boulware's careers are similar in some ways. High round picks that frustrated their fan bases while they were trying to learn new positions. Sometimes they showed flashes, but the team acquired guys playing the same position because of their failures in public learning. Both of them had pretty nice camps.

It might be nice of them to both have fresh starts. Boulware is also one of those high character guys that the Texans like and has had early success with his team, so he has that going for him.

The sad news of all this is the Harrison on IR thing. I talked to CC Brown at the team luncheon and he didn't seemed to be that concerned about his shoulder.

Here's my FanHouse mini-take on the Boulware-Babin thing:

Boulware for Babin (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/01/seattle-texans-trade-michael-boulware-for-jason-babin/)

dickieb
09-01-2007, 12:16 PM
Hey, at least it wasn't a Green Bay or Denver trade.

It's always the little things that make us happy! :doot:

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 12:17 PM
I've been trying my best to get a Seahawks fan's take on this trade, but it's as if the sidewalks are still rolled up in Seattle.

Hey, at least it wasn't a Green Bay or Denver trade.

Hey it is a Saturday morning there.

I've asked for fan responses over at my FanHouse post, so maybe a Seahawk fan will bite.

the wonger need food
09-01-2007, 12:19 PM
What's not to like about this trade? You trade an underacheiving situational DE for a starter that will play every down and is an instant upgrade over what you have. And he's cheaper. Another great move by our GM.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I see it working ... the Patriots need to replace Harrison and we've got Boulware .

We trade Boulware and Petey Faggins for a disgruntled Assante Samuels .

I can dream right . :texflag:

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 12:25 PM
Don't you mean the Lundy cut?

His cut was ANNOUNCED yesterday but like Kubiak said, it's not actually done until today.

If the Packers want him, they could still trade for him.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 12:28 PM
I've been trying my best to get a Seahawks fan's take on this trade, but it's as if the sidewalks are still rolled up in Seattle.

Hey, at least it wasn't a Green Bay or Denver trade.

Seattle fans take:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=114#s=114&f=1936&t=927784

Pretty much well wishes for Boulware and some excitement for Babin, but not as much as there is here.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2007, 12:28 PM
OK ... I'm stumped . I can't remember the LB turned SS , who went to USC and played for Minnesota .

i REMEMBER .... Joey Browner .

Is Boulware as good as Joey Browner ?

disaacks3
09-01-2007, 12:34 PM
What's not to like about this trade? You trade an underacheiving situational DE for a starter that will play every down and is an instant upgrade over what you have. And he's cheaper. Another great move by our GM. Umm...he spent 1/2 of last season as a backup and led his team in getting TORCHED on long balls.

He should be an upgrade for the Texans (which is sad in itself), but I still want a good FS to back up the CBs. He's definitely a hitter, which should help us on the short routes and augment the LB corps.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:34 PM
Seattle fans take:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=114#s=114&f=1936&t=927784

Pretty much well wishes for Boulware and some excitement for Babin, but not as much as there is here.
I doubt any Seahawk fan ever saw Babin play in College and it's highly likely that the only time a Seachicken fan has ever watched the Texans play was when their team played them.

nunusguy
09-01-2007, 12:37 PM
I've been trying my best to get a Seahawks fan's take on this trade, but it's as if the sidewalks are still rolled up in Seattle.

Hey, at least it wasn't a Green Bay or Denver trade.
I posted this on their Board just a few minutes after I put it on our Board,
and I think I've got one response. The guy up there said he was a stud run-stopper, but not too dependable in pass coverage. Surely we will get more feedback in time.
I've spent some time up that way and they aren't into football up there like we are down this way, hence the lack of response so far.
BTW, we drafted Babin #27 and Boulware was drafted by Seattle #53, so we assume each others mortgages, right ? Isn't that how it works on these trades, and if so should be a cap-friendly transaction for us ?

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:38 PM
I posted this on their Board just a few minutes after I put it on our Board,
and I think I've got one response. The guy up there said he was a stud run-stopper, but not too dependable in pass coverage. all you gotta do is axe me nuns...I got the scoop. :pirate:

bckey
09-01-2007, 12:39 PM
I've got a feeling Rick Smith isn't done yet.

ArlingtonTexan
09-01-2007, 12:42 PM
Boulware seems to be a more athletic version of the SS we already have, so we will see that if translates into better on the field production.

I had seen enough of Babin's good pass rush moves, but not athletic enough to set them up act. Best wishes to him.

TheIronDuke
09-01-2007, 12:46 PM
He should at least be able to get to the QB on safety blitzes. I can remember even Glenn Earl causing trouble when he was blitzing last year. He can't possibly be a downgrade at SS while we're only giving up a situational pass rusher. I think we got the bigger end of the stick in this deal.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-01-2007, 12:47 PM
Love the move. Almost feels like we are giving away nothing in this trade with Orr moving back to DE.

GuerillaBlack
09-01-2007, 12:47 PM
Not a bad trade to me. I actually had Boulware on Madden '07, and made him a stud. Video games don't equal real life, but the guy is an upgrade for the Texans.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:48 PM
Love the move. Almost feels like we are giving away nothing in this trade with Orr moving back to DE.

I think you hit on something important...Orr can give us what Babin gave us since Orr has good pass rushing skills. We had some redundancy at the situational pass rush position.

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 12:49 PM
I doubt any Seahawk fan ever saw Babin play in College and it's highly likely that the only time a Seachicken fan has ever watched the Texans play was when their team played them.

Ya think? From that thread:

"I like Babin at DE, Texan fans called him "Bad Boy Babin".

My nomination for the inadvertant humor of the day.

gwallaia
09-01-2007, 12:50 PM
I hope this pans out better than P Buchanon fiasco.

CloakNNNdagger
09-01-2007, 12:50 PM
Just saw it too. My first reaction is EEEK! I was hoping Babin was finally settling into a spot, but I guess the coaches have given up some of that hope.

We definitely NEED a safety, but was this move worth it?


Not exactly a GLOWING endorsement. (http://www.kirotv.com/nfl085/13967898/detail.html)

"The Seahawks' safety gave up a team-high seven touchdown passes last season, according to statistical service StatsPass, while serving as a primary target for opponents on a Seattle defense that surrendered a whopping 55 plays of at least 20 yards."

"The fourth-year veteran and second-round draft choice in 2004 from Florida State was anything but blessed in '06. He lost a starting job for the first time in his life, spending half of the 16 regular season games as a substitute and on special teams. The lowest point came Dec. 24 when San Diego's Vincent Jackson slipped behind him for a 37-yard touchdown with 29 seconds left to give the Chargers a 20-17 win.

After that game, Boulware openly cried in the locker room. Yes, he was a target last season. Opposing offenses exploited his tendency to play like the college linebacker he was and not the NFL safety he is. And Seahawks fans directed their ire at him for Seattle's penchant to give up huge plays."

I believe the next part of the article is a bit more important to the Texans. It appears that he may have been misused.:

The 6-foot-3, 220-pound Boulware was caught between coaches asking him to play like a linebacker, closer to the line to aggressively defend running plays, and demanding he drop deep into pass coverage as a defensive back on the next play.

"Last year, I had tendencies to think and react like a linebacker would," Boulware said, acknowledging it is a tricky switch.

"But now I'm thinking only, 'It's a safety in the box.' No more linebacker."

Last week at Green Bay, Boulware didn't look like a linebacker. Or a safety. He looked like an Olympic sprinter.

He ran down Will Blackmon, the Packers' second-year game breaker with 4.47-second speed in the 40-yard dash, at the end of an 83-yard kickoff return. Boulware made up a deficit of about five yards to Blackmon before leaping, lunging and pulling him down by the collar of his shoulder pads at the 15-yard line.

The desperate tackle drew a personal foul penalty as part of the NFL's relatively new "horse-collar" rule. But teammates were in awe of the inspiring play in an otherwise dreadful 48-13 loss.

"Boulware made one of the most unbelievable plays I've seen," said Pro Bowl middle linebacker Lofa Tatupu, whose drive and intensity is far more renowned than Boulware's. "I mean, he chased down a cornerback. And he's a converted linebacker."

Coach Mike Holmgren, who spent much of last season explaining Boulware's misplays, gushed after this one.

"It was great effort on Michael's part," Holmgren said, adding he didn't think it warranted a penalty based upon the rule's intent. "He just dove out and that's what he could grab."

I say the Texans made no mistake on this one.........recoach and polish this diamond in the rough.

Brando
09-01-2007, 12:51 PM
Ya think? From that thread:



My nomination for the inadvertant humor of the day.

lol I read that also. I don't remember any of us calling him Bad Boy Babin.

Anyone?

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 12:51 PM
Ya think? From that thread:



My nomination for the inadvertant humor of the day.

Yeah, I saw that as well and thought "when the hell has he ever been called that", oh well?

I hope this pans out better than P Buchanon fiasco.

The cost is much less then the P-Burnt trade.

nunusguy
09-01-2007, 12:53 PM
I think you hit on something important...Orr can give us what Babin gave us since Orr has good pass rushing skills. We had some redundancy at the situational pass rush position.
And there's nothing to prevent Charlie Anderson from putting his hand down
at weakside edge on passing downs, just he did in college like Orr and Babin did.
So what do you think V, our new safety starts for us I guess ? So looks like we just upgraded our starting defense ?

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 12:53 PM
I hope this pans out better than P Buchanon fiasco.

No draft picks. If it doesn't work, we are where we were before.

We traded a guy who we had problems finding a place on the field for another guy who they had problems finding a place for on the the field.

With the limited plays Babin was going to get in Houston, even if he shines for the Seahawks it isn't like he was likely to have those opportunities here.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:55 PM
Nice article on our new SS...

"For me, class is in session. I'm learning the tricks of the trade. It's been great. They (Grant and Russell) are like having two more coaches.

"They are making me so much more knowledgeable in my game for my career. I'm blessed, I really am."

The fourth-year veteran and second-round draft choice in 2004 from Florida State was anything but blessed in '06. He lost a starting job for the first time in his life, spending half of the 16 regular season games as a substitute and on special teams. The lowest point came Dec. 24 when San Diego's Vincent Jackson slipped behind him for a 37-yard touchdown with 29 seconds left to give the Chargers a 20-17 win.

After that game, Boulware openly cried in the locker room.

Yes, he was a target last season. Opposing offenses exploited his tendency to play like the college linebacker he was and not the NFL safety he is. And Seahawks fans directed their ire at him for Seattle's penchant to give up huge plays.

The 6-foot-3, 220-pound Boulware was caught between coaches asking him to play like a linebacker, closer to the line to aggressively defend running plays, and demanding he drop deep into pass coverage as a defensive back on the next play.

"Last year, I had tendencies to think and react like a linebacker would," Boulware said, acknowledging it is a tricky switch.

"But now I'm thinking only, 'It's a safety in the box.' No more linebacker."

Last week at Green Bay, Boulware didn't look like a linebacker. Or a safety. He looked like an Olympic sprinter.

He ran down Will Blackmon, the Packers' second-year game breaker with 4.47-second speed in the 40-yard dash, at the end of an 83-yard kickoff return. Boulware made up a deficit of about five yards to Blackmon before leaping, lunging and pulling him down by the collar of his shoulder pads at the 15-yard line. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_FBN_Seahawks_Boulware.html

Vinny
09-01-2007, 12:57 PM
And there's nothing to prevent Charlie Anderson from putting his hand down
at weakside edge on passing downs, just he did in college like Orr and Babin did.
So what do you think V, our new safety starts for us I guess ? So looks like we just upgraded our starting defense ? Boulware is faster than both Brown and Earl, and probably a better player than both of them...I think he is an instant starter at SS....soon as he learns the scheme. Donno if that takes him a couple of weeks or not.

Runner
09-01-2007, 12:57 PM
It's nice to see them making big moves. This puts more pressure on the rest of the Texans d-lineman to perform, but they needed to do something at saftey.

I'll say good trade. Probably for both teams.

CloakNNNdagger
09-01-2007, 12:58 PM
Seems to have the same tools as what he demonstrates now............He just needs to be upcoached from where he was as a Chicken:

Position: Outside Linebacker
School: Florida State

Status: Senior

Height: 6-2
Weight: 225
40-Yard Dash: 4.55
positives: Michael Boulware is an every-down linebacker who is strong, fast, and very agile. He is a remarkable athlete. He is great at chasing a play down from behind, he takes great angles in pursuit, and shows tremendous closing speed.
He's very quick in recognition and reaction to plays. He plays agressively in both run and pass defense. He is tremendous in pass coverage for a linebacker... has extremely fluid hip movement. He also possesses good ball skills, and matches up well with most tight ends and running backs.
Negatives: He is a little small for a weak-side linebacker, but I don't think he's fast enough to play safety in the NFL. He needs to bulk up somewhat... also needs to work on tackling skills. He doesn't miss a lot of tackles, but he tends to drape himself on ball carriers to bring them down instead of delivering a blow and driving through the man.
He also has a tough time getting off blocks and struggles to hold the point of attack on running plays. Once an offensive lineman gets ahold of him, he usually doesn't get away. Needs to learn to use his hands better.

Projection: If Boulware can add some bulk, and prove he can hold up against the run, he has a chance to be a playmaker at the next level. He is one of the top-five linebackers in the country, and most likely, he will be picked in the second round. I would expect him to play the weak side in the NFL.

Draft Profile (http://football.about.com/cs/playerprofiles/p/michaelboulware.htm)

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 12:59 PM
I believe the next part of the article is a bit more important to the Texans. It appears that he may have been misused.:



I say the Texans made no mistake on this one.........recoach and polish this diamond in the rough.

It's the Babin story too. Having, in his case, to re-learn a position and performing nicely in the offseason. Fans get down on a player and it is hard to erase fan's memories of learning mistakes.

[pessimistic voice emerging]I have to say however, that I don't have the most confidence in the world of the Texans coaching staff as it relates to coaching up of safety play and putting secondary players in the best position for them to succeed.[/pve]

ArlingtonTexan
09-01-2007, 12:59 PM
I Seahawks fan i know from a fantasy board described Boulware as a big hitter, not so much as great against the run. He mentioned two specific plays where boulware took poor angles and allowed big plays in the run game.

Brando
09-01-2007, 01:02 PM
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20061001/450hawks_boulware.jpg

Vinny
09-01-2007, 01:02 PM
I Seahawks fan i know from a fantasy board described Boulware as a big hitter, not so much as great against the run. He mentioned two specific plays where boulware took poor angles and allowed big plays in the run game.
It's probably true that he has issues to clean up...but are these the same Seachicken fans that insist that Shaun Alexander is "soft"? I've seen tons of hawk fans cry about how bad a back Alexander is for whatever reason over the years.

Brando
09-01-2007, 01:08 PM
I hope his hamstring will not be a problem.....

HC Mike Holmgren(On Michael Boulware not playing… ) Michael tweaked his hamstring the last day we worked out, maybe the day before. Like Leroy Hill, and some of those guys, we just decided not to play him.


Source (http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/seahawks?title=quotage_mike_holmgren_8&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1)

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 01:13 PM
Additional source:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801ff60a&template=without-video&confirm=true

The person spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the deal was not yet completed.

eriadoc
09-01-2007, 01:18 PM
My inital response to this was "Oh hell, we traded our best DE for yet another safety that can't cover". I've thought about it a bit, and I do think that's about how it comes down. However, Boulware is undoubtedly an upgrade to CC Brown (faint praise alert!) - and I only call Babin our best DE because, well, Mario has sucked for the most part. It'll come, but so far .... meh. I am glad that we were able to get some value for Babin, and as Vinny points out, Boulware is an absolute freak.

So I guess, in the short term, this doesn't do much to help our most glaring defensive need, and may in fact hurt our second-most glaring defensive need (pass rush). I don't have faith that Orr can put his hand on the ground and rush the passer with any consistency. I kind of liked him being able to move around and rush from the LB spot.

If Boulware gets his act together, we might get the better end of this deal. On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me to see Babin flourish elsewhere. Hey, at least Boulware didn't give up two 80-yard TDs in the same game last year.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 01:20 PM
I think the other positive from this is we were able to make a deal and no give up and future draft picks.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 01:20 PM
So I guess, in the short term, this doesn't do much to help our most glaring defensive need, and may in fact hurt our second-most glaring defensive need (pass rush). I don't have faith that Orr can put his hand on the ground and rush the passer with any consistency. I kind of liked him being able to move around and rush from the LB spot. Orr doesn't play well in space and isn't all that great vs the run....if he does anything well it is rush the passer...he has very good pass rushing skills (as opposed to blitzing skills). Probably the best on the team and he was getting to the QB every bit as much as Babin did (or more) this preseason when given the chance.

eriadoc
09-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Orr doesn't play well in space and isn't all that great vs the run....if he does anything well it is rush the passer...he has very good pass rushing skills. Probably the best on the team and he was getting to the QB every bit as much as Babin did (or more) this preseason when given the chance.

Yes, he was, but everytime he's gotten pressure on the QB, it's been from the LB spot, no? I don't recall seeing him put his hand down and rush from DE, but I haven't been watching DL so much.

nunusguy
09-01-2007, 01:24 PM
I really thought that when and if Babin was moved to another team, it would be one that used the 3-4 and would put him back at OLB where he was drafted to play. Looks like Seattle is a 4-3 team though, so he probably remains at DE.

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 01:24 PM
lol I read that also. I don't remember any of us calling him Bad Boy Babin.

Anyone?

At one time we were joking that he had the looks of one of the members in a 'boy band' (i.e. N'Sync, etc.). He would be looking like the "bad boy" of the group. That's the only mention I can recall of this particular nic, and it was only in jest.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 01:24 PM
Yes, he was, but everytime he's gotten pressure on the QB, it's been from the LB spot, no? I don't recall seeing him put his hand down and rush from DE, but I haven't been watching DL so much.it doesn't matter if he is hand down or standing...he has very solid pass rushing skills and he has shown them over the years. I've seen him play "hand down" in the past. Orr shouldn't be confused with linebackers that are good "blitzers" (Demeco Ryans)....being a good blitzer is very different than having good pass rushing skills as Orr used to be a DE in College just like Babin was.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 01:27 PM
I really thought that when and if Babin was moved to another team, it would be one that used the 3-4 and would put him back at OLB where he was drafted to play. Looks like Seattle is a 4-3 team though, so he probably remains at DE. to me he has looked better at de than he ever did at olb.

eriadoc
09-01-2007, 01:29 PM
it doesn't matter if he is hand down or standing...he has very solid pass rushing skills and he has shown them over the years. I've seen him play "hand down" in the past. Orr shouldn't be confused with linebackers that are good "blitzers" (Demeco Ryans)....being a good blitzer is very different than having good pass rushing skills as Orr used to be a DE in College just like Babin was.

I hear what you're saying, but at 246 lbs. I just don't see Orr being used in a very limited role, whereas Babin was decent against both the run and pass. Does this put Kalu on the field more? Weaver (injury situation)? Do we start running a few more 3-4 sets?

I hear what you're saying, it just opens up a lot of questions I'm curious to see how they answer.

The1ApplePie
09-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Wow, trading the best of our 4 straight 1st round D-Linemen...

I hope this isn't a bust for a bust trade.

I remember Reggie Nelson sitting there on draft day...

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 01:32 PM
Wow, trading the best of our 4 straight 1st round D-Linemen...
I hope this isn't a bust for a bust trade.

I remember Reggie Nelson sitting there on draft day...

Really, I mean you really think that Babin is the best of those 4? Atleast the other three are starters.

I've read this several time today and am shocked that so many people think that Babin is the best of our D-linemen.

To each he's own I quess.

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 01:37 PM
Really, I mean you really think that Babin is the best of those 4? Atleast the other three are starters.

I've read this several time today and am shocked that so many people think that Babin is the best of our D-linemen.

To each he's own I quess.

I agree with you on this.

Babin was at best the fourth best DE on the team. Behind Williams, Weaver, Cochran.


I like the trade. Lets hope this guy can come in and make an immediate impact cus we sure need it.

I thought it was weird that we were keeping five DE's.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-01-2007, 01:38 PM
Yes, he was, but everytime he's gotten pressure on the QB, it's been from the LB spot, no? I don't recall seeing him put his hand down and rush from DE, but I haven't been watching DL so much.



Orr was playing with his hand down on the right side in the Cowboys game whenever they had Mario line up on the left side.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2007, 01:39 PM
I thought that Babin's was a typical small school lineman . You just don't know how they'll play .

I think alot of Texan players got caught up in the Texans country club atmosphere of the Capers/ CC era . You can name many a player who was considered an underperformer ... TJ , Babin , and so on .

I really think Babin's tribal ink will be a hit in the pacific northwest .

eriadoc
09-01-2007, 01:40 PM
Really, I mean you really think that Babin is the best of those 4? Atleast the other three are starters.

I've read this several time today and am shocked that so many people think that Babin is the best of our D-linemen.

To each he's own I quess.

Well, it's kind of like boasting about doing limbo under the St. Louis Arch, but yeah, he's been the best of, so far. Travis Johnson has done a whole lot of nothing, with a big dose of immaturity thrown in. He finally looks to be shaping up, so I'm optimistic. Mario has flashed here and there, but for the most part, he hasn't played well. He obviously has a ton of potential, but he hasn't produced at even the level Babin has. Okoye is out of the argument, because he's a rookie who has done nothing yet, naturally.

Babin played pretty well as a rookie in the 3-4, while learning the position. The next year, he dealt with some injury issues, as well as bad coaching, but he still came around by the second half of the year and contributed. Last year, he switched back to DE in a 4-3, played under new coaches, and had to try and prove himself all along. In very limited time, he put pressure on the QB better than anyone else we had.

Babin doesn't have the upside that Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Okoye have, but he's outproduced them to this point in their respective careers - even as little as that production has been. As long as our 1st round D-Line starts producing, we won't miss Babin. Those guys should all be outproducing him handily.

eriadoc
09-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Orr was playing with his hand down on the right side in the Cowboys game whenever they had Mario line up on the left side.

Ahh, very cool. Thanks for the info! I'll go back and view it again.

nunusguy
09-01-2007, 01:44 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003863363_hawk01.html
Michael Boulware was a star as a rookie in 2004, but now his inconsistency has left him on the bubble to make the team today when the roster is announced.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003863363_hawk01.html
******************************
I dunno but this article in the Seattle paper, which appears to have been published prior to the trade, says Boulware was possibly on the verge of being cut outright. Have the Texans been had ?

vtech9
09-01-2007, 01:46 PM
Like others have said, Babin was a SITUATIONAL pass-rushing DE. He wasn't a starter. The Texans traded a situational back-up DE for a starting SS. I'm still hoping for a starting FS to be brought in, but we now have a starting SS to replace the injured Earl. Orr has done just as well if not better than Babin, and doesn't cost nearly as much. I say "GOOD TRADE".

J-Russ
09-01-2007, 01:46 PM
Will Demps is also available now, hes a FS, cut by the Giants.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2007, 01:46 PM
I think we have another commodity at DL to trade .

I think Anthony Weaver plays where Mario and Earl Cochran play . I bet Earl as Mario's backup is alot cheaper .

Is there a 3/4 team that really needs a DE ?

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 01:48 PM
Will Demps is also available now, hes a FS, cut by the Giants.

I saw that as well, but I think he's got some injury issues.

vtech9
09-01-2007, 01:48 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003863363_hawk01.html
Michael Boulware was a star as a rookie in 2004, but now his inconsistency has left him on the bubble to make the team today when the roster is announced.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003863363_hawk01.html
******************************
I dunno but this article in the Seattle paper, which appears to have been published prior to the trade, says Boulware was possibly on the verge of being cut outright. Have the Texans been had ?

If he was cut, the Texans probably would not have had a chance to get him.

J-Russ
09-01-2007, 01:49 PM
I think the coach are still going to start Mario at weakside. Now that we traded Babin we don't have a capable starter at the weakside, besides Mario. So that means Weaver is here to stay.

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 01:53 PM
Well all I have to say in Babin leaving is there goes four draft picks and five sacks.

Kaiser Toro
09-01-2007, 01:54 PM
This is a flat out good trade. We get an upgrade in the secondary for a situational pass rusher. Babin leaves here with no shame and has respect from the fan base. A horrible GM gave to much away years ago off of bad scouting - this was not Babin's fault. Babin improved while he was here and he came to be what he is - an above average situational pass rusher that is is in competition against potentially above average pass rushers that can offer more on the field.

Boulware is Babin's doppleganger as far as role with their former team. We get better at SS with Boulware, we stay the same on pass rushing from the line, sans Babin, but we now field a player at SS that offenses have to account for when we show blitz.

It appears Babin will cost us ~2m on the cap for his remaining signing bonus. Not sure how that will accounted for by trade/contract (cap neutral with Boulware?) or if fuzzy math will be needed. All in all it appears that there is no cap issue with this one given their terms of service and the delta in their draft positions.

Today is a good day to be a Texan. :texflag:

PapaL
09-01-2007, 01:56 PM
Really, I mean you really think that Babin is the best of those 4? Atleast the other three are starters.

I've read this several time today and am shocked that so many people think that Babin is the best of our D-linemen.

To each he's own I quess.

By best I'm guessing they meant longest tenured situational player who has taken 3+ years to develop into a "solid" 4 sack a year artist.

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 02:00 PM
Today is a good day to be a Texan. :texflag:

:fans:

I will now dub thee, Michael Bullware.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 02:03 PM
There is a video interview up, on the main site, with Rick Smith in regards to the trade.

- Killings will be cut

- Harrison to IR

PapaL
09-01-2007, 02:06 PM
Mario has flashed here and there, but for the most part, he hasn't played well. He obviously has a ton of potential, but he hasn't produced at even the level Babin has.

What do mean MW hasn't produced at a "Babin" level? Their stats are practically identical. Granted Babin got more tackles in his first year but he should have, he played LB.


M.W Stats:
Year G Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int TDs Yds Avg Lng
2006 16 47 35 12 4.5 -- 3 -- -- -- 0.0 --

J.B Stats:
Year G Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int TDs Yds Avg Lng
2006 15 26 19 7 5.0 -- 1 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2005 12 35 24 11 4.0 -- 2 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2004 16 63 51 12 4.0 -- 4 -- -- -- 0.0 --


This is a good move for us. We end up saving a little money and get another Safety. Best wishes Babin; Welcome to Houston Boulware.

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 02:07 PM
Really, I mean you really think that Babin is the best of those 4? Atleast the other three are starters.

I've read this several time today and am shocked that so many people think that Babin is the best of our D-linemen.

To each he's own I quess.

I think it speaks more about how little we've seen from the rest of our linemen when folks perceive Babin to be one of our best. Low expectations, I suppose.

I've always liked Babin, but mentioned earlier in the pre-season that he has never really impressed me. I was reminded that he's a tweener and needed time to develop, but I guess the coaches weren't all that impressed with him, either.

We traded up with the Titans to acquire Babin, exchanging four draft picks for him and a fifth-round draft choice.

Looking at what our current FO can find in later rounds, we gave away too much to get him. Typical Casserly move, IMO.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 02:08 PM
Yes, he was, but everytime he's gotten pressure on the QB, it's been from the LB spot, no? I don't recall seeing him put his hand down and rush from DE, but I haven't been watching DL so much.

They've actually had Orr and Anderson BOTH playing DE with their hands on the ground. And they've both looked pretty good rushing the passer. I think that had a lot to do with this decision.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 02:10 PM
my tweener for your tweener (http://www.texanstalk.com/content/view/31/16/)

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 02:11 PM
The GM is pretty adament that they are still looking at the S spot.

Harrison to IR, and Killings is cut are the final moves.

DiehardChris
09-01-2007, 02:14 PM
I think it's a good, not great trade. It's a slight upgrade.

The thing I like best about it is that it means for certain that Shantee Orr is on the roster. I'm tellin' ya, that guy is a flat out playmaker and he will have some huge sacks this year when he gets his situational snaps.

MissouriTexan
09-01-2007, 02:18 PM
Is Will Demps the only other possibility at FS?

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 02:24 PM
Good trade.

I agree with Vinny when it comes to Orr v. Babin.

So we stay the same on the line, we didn't lose a starter on the dline and gained a starter at SS.

Although I would be worried with starting him week 1 because he might be a bit confused out there...but our Safeties have always been confused so Maybe its not that bad of a idea to start him if he's ready.

I think I may have to replace Demeco in my avatar for Rick Smith!

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 02:24 PM
Is Will Demps the only other possibility at FS?

Let's see what shows up from all the cuts.

Marcus
09-01-2007, 02:31 PM
We traded up with the Titans to acquire Babin, exchanging four draft picks for him and a fifth-round draft choice.

And what did the Titans get with those picks?

Pretty much nada.

kiwitexansfan
09-01-2007, 02:33 PM
And what did the Titans get with those picks?

Pretty much nada.

What did the Texans get with those picks..... Michael Boulware apparently.

You can't judge the value of a trade based on the incompetency over another teams front office.

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 02:35 PM
That's odd.

So I Go to the site to see what Smith has to say and click on the video...

It doesn't load up. So I reload the screen...and the video is apparantly gone from the site now...

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 02:37 PM
That's odd.

So I Go to the site to see what Smith has to say and click on the video...

It doesn't load up. So I reload the screen...and the video is apparantly gone from the site now...

Wow.

You're right. It's gone.

He did say that they were still in the process of executing the trade.

He also mentioned in there that with 4 TE's that they could pull someone from there to make a deal.

I wonder if he spoke too soon?

disaacks3
09-01-2007, 02:38 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003863363_hawk01.html
Michael Boulware was a star as a rookie in 2004, but now his inconsistency has left him on the bubble to make the team today when the roster is announced.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2003863363_hawk01.html
******************************
I dunno but this article in the Seattle paper, which appears to have been published prior to the trade, says Boulware was possibly on the verge of being cut outright. Have the Texans been had ? I wouldn't go that far..we probably end up better off cap-wise & salary-wise w/ the trade. Looking at it from the "Orr will replace Babin" PoV makes me feel alittle better.

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 02:40 PM
Wow.

You're right. It's gone.

He did say that they were still in the process of executing the trade.

He also mentioned in there that with 4 TE's that they could pull someone from there to make a deal.

I wonder if he spoke too soon?

I'll be crossing my fingers.

Hopefully the deal remains as it is or gets better for us. I think it is a good move to trade Babin for Boulware straight up. I know Rick Smith isn't going to make a dumb trade...I know he won't.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 02:41 PM
That's odd.

So I Go to the site to see what Smith has to say and click on the video...

It doesn't load up. So I reload the screen...and the video is apparantly gone from the site now...

Could somebody have failed a physical?

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 02:47 PM
Wow.

You're right. It's gone.

He did say that they were still in the process of executing the trade.

He also mentioned in there that with 4 TE's that they could pull someone from there to make a deal.

I wonder if he spoke too soon?

Usually, the HT.com web people don't want to say squat about a deal until all the eyes are dotted and t's are crossed. Maybe someone jumped the gun.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 02:51 PM
Usually, the HT.com web people don't want to say squat about a deal until all the eyes are dotted and t's are crossed. Maybe someone jumped the gun.
I think that is exactly the case.

Errant Hothy
09-01-2007, 02:52 PM
Probably, all the stories are still up on the Chronicle's website. Including an interview with Dunta on Boulware.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 02:53 PM
Probably, all the stories are still up on the Chronicle's website. Including an interview with Dunta on Boulware.

There's an interview with Babin up on CNNSI.com talking about going up there to rush the passer.

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 02:56 PM
Probably, all the stories are still up on the Chronicle's website. Including an interview with Dunta on Boulware.

Yeah, I just watched that one.

Its odd though, Dunta's gonna have Fred Bennett. Travis is going to have Boulware now it seems. Reconnecting classmates on this team lol, sure helps the team become closer, because Boulware can come here and meet with all the guys through Travis.

Silver Oak
09-01-2007, 03:03 PM
Hope this wasn't already posted, but here's a Seattle bloggers take:

By John Morgan • Seahawks News
Posted on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 03:19:23 PM EDT

Awesome news, as Boulware was essentially on the chopping block; i.e. this is the something for nothing trade smart GM's make.

Here's what we need to know about Babin: He's 27, a former first round pick with big tools (28 reps on the bench, a very quick first step) who has been completely misused as an outside linebacker in Houston. Returning to his preferred position, he will help Seattle's pass rush for this year and work into being a long-term replacement in subsequent seasons.

Tim Ruskell once again scores with a savvy move, shipping off a player that was on his way out in Seattle for a former first round defensive end in his prime.


http://www.fieldgulls.com/

Vinny
09-01-2007, 03:07 PM
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823433113/bctid1165620332 << Dunta's quick interview on the trade

Lrayblu
09-01-2007, 03:10 PM
Man what is Smith doing ,Babin was the best pass rusher, I think they should have waited to get someone who was cut. Another mistake by this Team

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Hope this wasn't already posted, but here's a Seattle bloggers take:

By John Morgan • Seahawks News
Posted on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 03:19:23 PM EDT

Awesome news, as Boulware was essentially on the chopping block; i.e. this is the something for nothing trade smart GM's make.

Here's what we need to know about Babin: He's 27, a former first round pick with big tools (28 reps on the bench, a very quick first step) who has been completely misused as an outside linebacker in Houston. Returning to his preferred position, he will help Seattle's pass rush for this year and work into being a long-term replacement in subsequent seasons.

Tim Ruskell once again scores with a savvy move, shipping off a player that was on his way out in Seattle for a former first round defensive end in his prime.


http://www.fieldgulls.com/


This trade works out for both teams. Apparantly Seattle has depth at Safety and was planning on getting rid of Boulware. We have...not really depth on the dline, but Upside on it and 3 first rounders on it with first round money and basically had nothing at safety.

What Boulware brings is both Upside (The guy is 25 and turns 26 next month) and hopefully is a playmaker. Like Dunta said, he had a good rookie season and maybe his production fell off when they tried to make him a tweener.

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 03:12 PM
Man what is Smith doing ,Babin was the best pass rusher, I think they should have waited to get someone who was cut. Another mistake by this Team

I think Vinny hit the nail on the head with this. Orr is as good a pass rusher (if not better) than Babin. We had NO ONE to get excited in our secondary besides Dunta.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 03:14 PM
Man what is Smith doing ,Babin was the best pass rusher, I think they should have waited to get someone who was cut. Another mistake by this TeamI don't understand this logic...it was pretty obvious Seattle was looking to trade Boulware....at least that is what the trade implies to me. Our GM Rick Smith is an ex SS himself and he has shown an eye for talent in the short time he has been here....so the glass is half full for this fan.

Lrayblu
09-01-2007, 03:16 PM
I think the Saints may be cutting Jay Bellamy , hes a little long in the tooth but can still bring it . I would have like to see him in Texans uni, but what do i know.

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 03:16 PM
Hope this wasn't already posted, but here's a Seattle bloggers take:

By John Morgan • Seahawks News
Posted on Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 03:19:23 PM EDT

Awesome news, as Boulware was essentially on the chopping block; i.e. this is the something for nothing trade smart GM's make.

Here's what we need to know about Babin: He's 27, a former first round pick with big tools (28 reps on the bench, a very quick first step) who has been completely misused as an outside linebacker in Houston. Returning to his preferred position, he will help Seattle's pass rush for this year and work into being a long-term replacement in subsequent seasons.

Tim Ruskell once again scores with a savvy move, shipping off a player that was on his way out in Seattle for a former first round defensive end in his prime.


http://www.fieldgulls.com/

Most trades are attempts to be win-wins for teams.

Usually,(Casserly excluded), most trades that are completed aren't one sided--both sides have to have incentives to make it happen.

Seattle: Too many safeties, Boulware wasn't playing, gonna get cut, gets a player who had a good camp.

Houston: Too many situational DEs, huge problem at safety, gets a player who had a good camp.

eriadoc
09-01-2007, 03:18 PM
What do mean MW hasn't produced at a "Babin" level? Their stats are practically identical. Granted Babin got more tackles in his first year but he should have, he played LB.

Well, I mean that Babin required only about 20% of the snaps Mario had last year to meet his stats. Really, like DB said, it's more about what our other guys haven't done than what Babin has done.

Lrayblu
09-01-2007, 03:18 PM
This trade works out for both teams. Apparantly Seattle has depth at Safety and was planning on getting rid of Boulware. We have...not really depth on the dline, but Upside on it and 3 first rounders on it with first round money and basically had nothing at safety.

What Boulware brings is both Upside (The guy is 25 and turns 26 next month) and hopefully is a playmaker. Like Dunta said, he had a good rookie season and maybe his production fell off when they tried to make him a tweener.

I tend to agree with this , i think they didnt use Babin they way they should have. I hope im wrong and he does'nt become a star in Seattle.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 03:19 PM
Well, I mean that Babin required only about 20% of the snaps Mario had last year to meet his stats. Really, like DB said, it's more about what our other guys haven't done than what Babin has done.I figure if Mario was situational and came in to the games fresh 100% of the time he would have produced around the same as Babin did....that's really not saying too much however.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 03:20 PM
I tend to agree with this , i think they didnt use Babin they way they should have. I hope im wrong and he does'nt become a star in Seattle.who do you suggest using him? We stood him up and played him as a linebacker and we played him hand down as an end...is there another way to use the guy?

Lrayblu
09-01-2007, 03:22 PM
I figure if Mario was situational and came in to the games fresh 100% of the time he would have produced around the same as Babin did....that's really not saying too much however.

True ,but you dont trade your best pass rusher on a already unachieving D-Line. They could have got a safty via cuts. They jumped to quick on Boulware

the wonger need food
09-01-2007, 03:26 PM
Well, I mean that Babin required only about 20% of the snaps Mario had last year to meet his stats. Really, like DB said, it's more about what our other guys haven't done than what Babin has done.


Not even close. Mario had double the tackles and Babin didn't make any plays to win games like Mario did. Good try though.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 03:26 PM
True ,but you dont trade your best pass rusher on a already unachieving D-Line. They could have got a safty via cuts. They jumped to quick on BoulwareTell me what Babin gives us that we can't get in Orr and Kalu...I don't think any one of those guys are heads and shoulders better than the other when it comes to rushing the passer.

gtexan02
09-01-2007, 03:27 PM
lol, only on the Texans messageboard do you find this kind of ridculous logic being thrown around.

We traded a backup. A situational pass rushing DE, who accumulated all of 5 sacks last year, for an every down starting caliber safety.

Safety is our WEAKEST spot on the team. DE is not.

A few months ago everyone was clamoring to cut Babin. Now we trade him for a starter, at a position where we have 0 NFL caliber starters, and everyone is upset? Sure he had a good preseason, but its PRESEASON. Don't be fooled people

This is a fantastic trade

Texans Horror
09-01-2007, 03:28 PM
I think Babin was just coming into his own, like Dunta and TJ, but since the team gave up on chances to fix the secondary, this is as decent a band-aid as there is around. As others have said, we have plenty of pass-rushers, and a deplorable secondary.

However, my jar being half-empty, I would have really preferred the Texans did something about secondary earlier (e.g., draft). From what some people are posting, it sounds like we may have just traded our best pass-rusher for another Jordan Black.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 03:28 PM
I tend to agree with this , i think they didnt use Babin they way they should have. I hope im wrong and he does'nt become a star in Seattle.

I don't agree at all. I've got no problem if Babin goes to Seattle and does well. It's not about that.

It's about us putting together the best 53 man roster that we can. We've got Jason Simmons and CC Brown hurt and Harrison and Earl on IR. We NEED a Strong Safety.

Babin has had a good pre-season. He's a little undersized for a 4-3 DE. In the right situation, he can be good. We've got Shantee Orr and Charlie Anderson who can both do the same job and may even be better. We've got Weaver, Williams who are going to be on the roster no matter what and Cochran and N.D. Kalu who've been playing pretty good this pre-season. So, although the DL hasn't been a strength of this team, DE is a position where we've got a lot of bodies.

We trade Babin to a place where he's probably going to play more and be more successful than he would have been here. And we get a guy for a position where we really need a player.

I don't see how this could possibly be construed as a mistake.

the wonger need food
09-01-2007, 03:29 PM
True ,but you dont trade your best pass rusher on a already unachieving D-Line. They could have got a safty via cuts. They jumped to quick on Boulware

Wrong and wrong.

Babin was not our best pass rusher, he just had the most sacks... barely. DE production is measured in a lot more ways than just sack numbers. Unfortunately you won't learn these things by watching ESPN highlights.

Lrayblu
09-01-2007, 03:31 PM
I think Babin was just coming into his own, like Dunta and TJ, but since the team gave up on chances to fix the secondary, this is as decent a band-aid as there is around. As others have said, we have plenty of pass-rushers, and a deplorable secondary.

However, my jar being half-empty, I would have really preferred the Texans did something about secondary earlier (e.g., draft). From what some people are posting, it sounds like we may have just traded our best pass-rusher for another Jordan Black.

Great Post , if you dont jump up and down over this trade your not a true fan, I think your right i do remember Babins name being called nore than anybody on the d--line and he will come into his own in Seattle , MISTAKE

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 03:32 PM
lol, only on the Texans messageboard do you find this kind of ridculous logic being thrown around.

We traded a backup. A situational pass rushing DE, who accumulated all of 5 sacks last year, for an every down starting caliber safety.

Safety is our WEAKEST spot on the team. DE is not.

A few months ago everyone was clamoring to cut Babin. Now we trade him for a starter, at a position where we have 0 NFL caliber starters, and everyone is upset? Sure he had a good preseason, but its PRESEASON. Don't be fooled people

This is a fantastic trade

I agree with you...

I can see if Boulware was 35 or something and on his last legs...but this guy hasn't even hit his Prime (most likely) and has about 11 more years in the NFL...I don't see anything negative with this trade.

gtexan02
09-01-2007, 03:33 PM
Wrong and wrong.

Babin was not our best pass rusher, he just had the most sacks... barely. DE production is measured in a lot more ways than just sack numbers. Unfortunately you won't learn these things by watching ESPN highlights.

This argument makes no sense. he didn't claim Babin was our best DE, he said he was our best pass rusher.

Secondly, that ESPn line is a bunch of crap. Why do people get so condescending on here? The guy is on the messageboard posting, so leave the insults at home. You have no idea if his knowledge comes from ESPN highlights (as if the Texans were in any of them anyways)

LORK 88
09-01-2007, 03:39 PM
Great Post , if you dont jump up and down over this trade your not a true fan, I think your right i do remember Babins name being called nore than anybody on the d--line and he will come into his own in Seattle , MISTAKE
To be honest, I'm still trying to see what Seattle wants in Babin. They brought in Kerney and have their second year man Tapp starting. Fisher is good depth (former starter) and they drafted Atkins. Babin will have to really work hard to see the field on a frequent basis.

Texans Horror
09-01-2007, 03:40 PM
I don't like the deal, but mainly because I think the Texans painted themselves in a corner. They have had dirt for a secondary for years now, and they had a good opportunity to really upgrade it. As much as I like the Okoye pick, some of those safeties and cornerbacks we could have gotten are starting to look real good.

On the other hand, this is a reality of a new GM and coach. Year 2, they cleared out two previous first-rounders. DE is not a problem. Secondary is.

I still don't think this gets the secondary off the hook, though. They are going to have a tough time with or without Boudelare.

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 03:40 PM
True ,but you dont trade your best pass rusher on a already unachieving D-Line. They could have got a safty via cuts. They jumped to quick on Boulware

As said before, "best pass rusher" is a quantitive statement.

Lrayblu
09-01-2007, 03:40 PM
This argument makes no sense. he didn't claim Babin was our best DE, he said he was our best pass rusher.

Secondly, that ESPn line is a bunch of crap. Why do people get so condescending on here? The guy is on the messageboard posting, so leave the insults at home. You have no idea if his knowledge comes from ESPN highlights (as if the Texans were in any of them anyways)

Thanks Man . Im not here to stir anything , i just wanted to voice my opinion {not that it matters} on Babin. I liked him and was waiting for him to bust out. I think he was primed for a good season.

disaacks3
09-01-2007, 03:43 PM
lol, only on the Texans messageboard do you find this kind of ridculous logic being thrown around.

We traded a backup. A situational pass rushing DE, who accumulated all of 5 sacks last year, for an every down starting caliber safety.

Safety is our WEAKEST spot on the team. DE is not.

A few months ago everyone was clamoring to cut Babin. Now we trade him for a starter, at a position where we have 0 NFL caliber starters, and everyone is upset? Sure he had a good preseason, but its PRESEASON. Don't be fooled people

This is a fantastic trade We're all agreed we really needed a safety, but most would have preferred a FREE Safety.

If he was an every-down "Starting-caliber" guy (for anybody but us), the Hawks wouldn't be making this trade. He's got upside, but was most assuredly on his way OUT in Seattle.

This has the "potential" to work out for the Texans, but don't over-sell it for something it's not.

gtexan02
09-01-2007, 03:45 PM
We're all agreed we really needed a safety, but most would have preferred a FREE Safety.

If he was an every-down "Starting-caliber" guy (for anybody but us), the Hawks wouldn't be making this trade. He's got upside, but was most assuredly on his way OUT in Seattle.

This has the "potential" to work out for the Texans, but don't over-sell it for something it's not.


Just because he lost his job in Seattle, doesn't mean he isn't NFL quality. They have a pretty good lineup of safeties there (they let hamlin go, too, who I thought was great).

Babin couldn't break the starting lineup on what many would consider a bottom 5 DL

Leahmic223
09-01-2007, 03:45 PM
We're all agreed we really needed a safety, but most would have preferred a FREE Safety.

If he was an every-down "Starting-caliber" guy (for anybody but us), the Hawks wouldn't be making this trade. He's got upside, but was most assuredly on his way OUT in Seattle.

This has the "potential" to work out for the Texans, but don't over-sell it for something it's not.

Well...he'll be starting for us, its not like he has much competition.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-01-2007, 03:46 PM
Said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again...

Having Orr back at defensive end makes Babin expendable as he is just as good as, if not better, than Babin when it comes to rushing the passer.

Both players struggle at the point of attack so that is a wash. In my eyes, we gave up nothing in this trade and gained a starter out of it.

TheRealJoker
09-01-2007, 03:48 PM
Looking forward to seeing Boulware in our secondary.

If it doesn't work out for him at SS though, what are the chances the coaching staff would move him to WLB? How do you think he would perform at that position?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-01-2007, 03:51 PM
We're all agreed we really needed a safety, but most would have preferred a FREE Safety.

If he was an every-down "Starting-caliber" guy (for anybody but us), the Hawks wouldn't be making this trade. He's got upside, but was most assuredly on his way OUT in Seattle.

This has the "potential" to work out for the Texans, but don't over-sell it for something it's not.


Anytime you have a chance to upgrade your team at a starting position when all you have to give up is some depth at a position (especially one where there is a logjam of players with similar abilities), you do it.

dickieb
09-01-2007, 03:54 PM
lol, only on the Texans messageboard do you find this kind of ridculous logic being thrown around.

We traded a backup. A situational pass rushing DE, who accumulated all of 5 sacks last year, for an every down starting caliber safety.

Safety is our WEAKEST spot on the team. DE is not.

A few months ago everyone was clamoring to cut Babin. Now we trade him for a starter, at a position where we have 0 NFL caliber starters, and everyone is upset? Sure he had a good preseason, but its PRESEASON. Don't be fooled people

This is a fantastic trade


I'm with you man, good post! Anyone who knows our team should know that our secondary was a weak spot even before the injuries. We just made our weakest link stronger therefore we just improved our football team and increased our cap room if I'm not mistaken. We have to get to 53, and it's just the way this game works, you can't get something for nothing. Best wishes to Babin, but I'm more excited for us and look forward to Boulware helping this team and getting better as a player - we sure as heck need him to play spectacular.

Vinny
09-01-2007, 03:56 PM
We're all agreed we really needed a safety, but most would have preferred a FREE Safety.

If he was an every-down "Starting-caliber" guy (for anybody but us), the Hawks wouldn't be making this trade. He's got upside, but was most assuredly on his way OUT in Seattle.

This has the "potential" to work out for the Texans, but don't over-sell it for something it's not.The only team CC Brown could start for is us....you just have to have a little perspective. Brown starting at SS would have been a disaster based on what I saw from the Cowboy game. There has been tons of players in this league to lose their starting spot just to regain it later.

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 03:58 PM
Man what is Smith doing ,Babin was the best pass rusher, I think they should have waited to get someone who was cut. Another mistake by this Team

How is this a mistake?

We traded a bench player and got a starter.

Easy on the best pass rush there, he only had five sacks.

Thats like saying Kate Moss is the fastest woman in a room full of anorexics

Texans Horror
09-01-2007, 03:58 PM
As said before, "best pass rusher" is a quantitive statement.

Definitely won't argue with that. If one more quarterback had stumbled in front of Mario, he'd have as many sacks as Babin. Babin was used in situational pass-rushing. If the new safety plays full-time and plays as well as Glen Earl, then it was a good deal.

Double Barrel
09-01-2007, 04:01 PM
Definitely won't argue with that. If one more quarterback had stumbled in front of Mario, he'd have as many sacks as Babin. Babin was used in situational pass-rushing. If the new safety plays full-time and plays as well as Glen Earl, then it was a good deal.

The highlighted quote is cracking me up! :heh: sad, but true!

disaacks3
09-01-2007, 04:03 PM
The only team CC Brown could start for is us....you just have to have a little perspective. Brown starting at SS would have been a disaster based on what I saw from the Cowboy game. There has been tons of players in this league to lose their starting spot just to regain it later. I'm NOT disagreeing with this assessment, but I'm already getting tired of hearing how we're getting a "Starter" from Seattle.

He likely becomes a starter for US, but he had become FAR from a starter for them. We did NOT take a starter from THEIR roster anymore than they took one from OURS.

The more I think about it, the more I like the trade, but the OVER-Sell is killing me.

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 04:03 PM
Looking forward to seeing Boulware in our secondary.

If it doesn't work out for him at SS though, what are the chances the coaching staff would move him to WLB? How do you think he would perform at that position?

I say why not. IMO we still don't have a very good linebacking core. Anderson has been OK, Clark is OK, Greenwood is Forman in another body, Barber has played below my expectations.

DeMeco is still the man.

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 04:06 PM
I'm NOT disagreeing with this assessment, but I'm already getting tired of hearing how we're getting a "Starter" from Seattle.

He likely becomes a starter for US, but he had become FAR from a starter for them. We did NOT take a starter from THEIR roster anymore than they took one from OURS.

The more I think about it, the more I like the trade, but the OVER-Sell is killing me.

Bullware does not have a choice but to be a starter. There is no one else.

However, do you know how Babin is going to be used? Do you know if an undersized DE is going to play every down?

Vinny
09-01-2007, 04:06 PM
I'm NOT disagreeing with this assessment, but I'm already getting tired of hearing how we're getting a "Starter" from Seattle.

He likely becomes a starter for US, but he had become FAR from a starter for them. We did NOT take a starter from THEIR roster anymore than they took one from OURS.

The more I think about it, the more I like the trade, but the OVER-Sell is killing me.I've seen him play enough to think he will start with us. I can't imagine him not starting....Brown was awful at SS last week. Rick Smith took Vonta Leach off the scrap heap to play a role in the teams success last season...I think he has a pretty good eye for talent. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.

mattschaub#8
09-01-2007, 04:09 PM
man babin was good but we do need a safety

o yeah if yall want an matt schaub wall paper i made go here it on this website

go 2 my user and look at threads started bye me and look 4 1 free
wall paper bye me ojk

and its not cut off it keeps going ok good look boulware yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beerlover
09-01-2007, 04:09 PM
coming out of College both where regarded as early 2nd rd. picks-

both where converted to new positions-

Seattle is on the downside while the Texans are on the upside-

Glenn Earl is out for the season (most likely) Rick Smith & Kubiak knew we had a gapping hole @ SS.

instead of being forced to start a rookie, or put an injured CC Brown into a postion to fail, we added a physical freak with 4 years of NFL experience-

gives the Defense a more physical presence-

sorts out the defensive line roles-

I could go on & on, Rick Smith is such a better GM than Charlie Casserly it makes me very exicted to be a Texan, this one move will help make our defense much more formidable :pirate:

TheIronDuke
09-01-2007, 04:33 PM
man babin was good but we do need a safety

o yeah if yall want an matt schaub wall paper i made go here it on this website

go 2 my user and look at threads started bye me and look 4 1 free
wall paper bye me ojk

and its not cut off it keeps going ok good look boulware yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, are you like 12 or something? "I'm An Texans?"

TexanSam
09-01-2007, 04:35 PM
I guess the trade is alright. We gave up an ok defensive end for an ok safety.

Malloy
09-01-2007, 04:51 PM
man babin was good but we do need a safety

o yeah if yall want an matt schaub wall paper i made go here it on this website

go 2 my user and look at threads started bye me and look 4 1 free
wall paper bye me ojk

and its not cut off it keeps going ok good look boulware yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure I understand anything of this post...

Specnatz
09-01-2007, 05:00 PM
I'm not sure I understand anything of this post...

goto graphic section and you will understand the last part. Thought process running faster than typing skills I would say.

AZwhoopr
09-01-2007, 05:16 PM
I like this trade alot. Boulware can lay the wood, he's out for blood every time he steps on the field(former linebacker if no one has mentioned it already). He was good during his rookie year and is an upgrade to the safties we have right now. Not sure how well he'll play vs. the pass though. He got 5 int's(which isn't too bad) his first season in the NFL and 4 in the second and I'm pretty sure an injury plagued him last season. Look at it this way though guys, we have plenty of depth on the D-line and none in the secondary. Babin can be replaced IMO, we def. adressed a bigger need with this trade.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 05:24 PM
The video is back up on HT.com.

Wolf
09-01-2007, 05:49 PM
I look at it this way. like others said (and this thread needs to go to the Texanstalk hall of fame about babin and the praise he is getting for I don't recall all this praise before) ..Babin was situational. I personally wasn't happy with our secondary overall (and it still needs work), but with Bouleware. whether he is the answer or not(we don't know) , is an upgrade to what we have..He is going to play 40+ plays and give or take good or bad, it will be more than what Babin was going to do, Babin wasn't going to be a starter and we all know he was a tweener...I would think that Orr or anyone else should come up with 26 total tackles and 5 sacks

I also think MW and Okoye should pick up the slack

Specnatz
09-01-2007, 06:03 PM
Dude, are you like 12 or something? "I'm An Texans?"

uncalled for, just mention the type-o without being rude.

euro-Texan
09-01-2007, 06:09 PM
So should we expect to see this guy ready to start in eight days?

Texan Asylum
09-01-2007, 06:15 PM
go to graphic section and you will understand the last part. Thought process running faster than typing skills I would say.



uncalled for, just mention the type-o without being rude.


Gotta rep for this.

Not many will stand up for another in an anonymous forum.

Good words Spec! :cool:

Specnatz
09-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Gotta rep for this.

Not many will stand up for another in an anonymous forum.

Good words Spec! :cool:

Thank you!


:fans:

The1ApplePie
09-01-2007, 06:54 PM
Didn't we trade half the draft to move up and draft Babin a head of Bob Sanders?

Vinny
09-01-2007, 06:56 PM
Didn't we trade half the draft to move up and draft Babin a head of Bob Sanders?Sanders had an injury that pushed him down the draft pecking order...I think he was on the pup the first 6 games of the year...seems everyone was concerned about that injury.....so he slid a bit.

Twitch-Houston
09-01-2007, 07:48 PM
Weird thing is that Babin and Boulware are both on the roster still....ha ha

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/Roster.html

downtownsb
09-01-2007, 07:50 PM
Well, I love Boulware. It breaks my heart to see him go, but I think it will be good for him. He apparently is one that had a lot of potential, but just couldn't quite get the position down. But I think you'll be pretty happy with him. Good guy. Always at practice early; stays late, studies hard. I'm sure it broke Holmgren's heart to have to trade him.

We have two older women that are seahawks season ticket holders that always wore these weird looking hats to each game...one said "Beware" and the other said "Boulware." You should start that tradition in Houston so he'll feel at home.


I asked a friend from a message board I go to about this trade and this is what they said. Anyone want to get some hats made?

Twitch-Houston
09-01-2007, 07:56 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet, cause I haven't read all the pages of the post yet.

"In the offseason, Boulware underwent successful shoulder surgery. He passed the team's physical when he reported to camp. He's been practicing with a hamstring injury the Seahawks say he "tweaked." The Texans say they aren't worried about it. I spoke with Boulware today, and he assured me it won't be a problem, either. He's fired up about coming to Houston and getting a fresh start."

Should we worry? According to McClain Boulware isn't worried and neither are the Texans.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/09/what_do_you_think_of_boulwaref.html

Second Honeymoon
09-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Didn't we trade half the draft to move up and draft Babin a head of Bob Sanders?

'we' didn't trade up to get Babin, Casserley did. take that for what its worth. I can't rememeber anyone coming away from that draft thinking it was a good move...it was just another Casserley 'Special'.

Classic Asserley that day was him thinking he was smarter than everyone else, per usual. I remember his arrogance defending that deal and demeaning a lot of the fan's opinions who had panned the move widely.

We still need a FS though but this move does upgrade our SS position and give us flexibility in moving someone from SS to FS. It also removes another Casserley draft pick from our roster....which is always a good thing. I guess the Seahawks are the destination for the Casserley Castoffs...Joppru and now Babin. To backup what one of our esteemed posters said, its nice that we are actually getting something for one of our players and not just dumping them or trading them for a can of soup.

Wolf
09-01-2007, 08:39 PM
'we' didn't trade up to get Babin, Casserley did. take that for what its worth. I can't rememeber anyone coming away from that draft thinking it was a good move...it was just another Casserley 'Special'.

Classic Asserley that day was him thinking he was smarter than everyone else, per usual. I remember his arrogance defending that deal and demeaning a lot of the fan's opinions who had panned the move widely.

We still need a FS though but this move does upgrade our SS position and give us flexibility in moving someone from SS to FS. It also removes another Casserley draft pick from our roster....which is always a good thing. I guess the Seahawks are the destination for the Casserley Castoffs...Joppru and now Babin. To backup what one of our esteemed posters said, its nice that we are actually getting something for one of our players and not just dumping them or trading them for a can of soup.

not defending casserly, but we were a 3-4 defense then

threetoedpete
09-01-2007, 08:42 PM
That's like saying "I'm the best athlete at Fat Camp"! We had a really, really bad pass rush last year, I'm shocked anybody gave us this kind of value for one of our DEs.

Yeah , even if it doesn't work out at least you've made a chance that Boulware will make a fair SS. Ok babins guys, were you going to re do the guy next year at thirty million with twleve up front for a stuational pass rusher ? Some of you guys cring I wanna see you post that sheet for five to seven sacks per year guy. It was a good move. We traded a position of excess for a positon of need. Both teams got a chance to make a great deal out of the move.

Second Honeymoon
09-01-2007, 09:05 PM
not defending casserly, but we were a 3-4 defense then

yeah...i hear ya...there is no defense for Casserley...senility? lobotomy?

they reached on Babin and gave our rival a treasure trove to move up in order to do so. he was just another workout warrior that Casserley always falls head over heels for. That guy just sucked as our GM, was arrogant in how the public received his dubious selections, and had a face that makes children run away in utter fear.

if you ever want to really get upset about Casserley and how much he nerfed our franchise's development, just go back and look at the drafts he made the first 3 years....and people wonder why we have had so much trouble getting things going in a positive direction

God Bless Rick Smith

beerlover
09-01-2007, 09:09 PM
they reached on Babin and gave our rival a treasure trove to move up in order to do so. he was just another workout warrior that Casserley always falls head over heels for. That guy just sucked as our GM, was arrogant in how the public received his dubious selections, and had a face that makes children turn away in utter fear.

if you ever want to really get upset about Casserley and how much he nerfed our franchise's development, just go back and look at the drafts he made the first 3 years....and people wonder why we have had so much trouble getting things going in a positive direction

God Bless Rick Smith

you get a rep from me for that one :thumbup

Texans_Chick
09-01-2007, 09:27 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet, cause I haven't read all the pages of the post yet.

"In the offseason, Boulware underwent successful shoulder surgery. He passed the team's physical when he reported to camp. He's been practicing with a hamstring injury the Seahawks say he "tweaked." The Texans say they aren't worried about it. I spoke with Boulware today, and he assured me it won't be a problem, either. He's fired up about coming to Houston and getting a fresh start."

Should we worry? According to McClain Boulware isn't worried and neither are the Texans.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/09/what_do_you_think_of_boulwaref.html


I worry about everything. Especially shoulders and knees. Those are some snarky joints that are handy to have if you are a football player.

Check this out:

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=35836

The three-year starter at strong-side outside linebacker almost moved to strong safety for the 2003 season, but after undergoing shoulder surgery during spring drills, the FSU coaching staff scratched those plans …

Anybody know same shoulder or different shoulder?

BTW, there is a way to email him in that link.

Porky
09-01-2007, 09:54 PM
This is a no brainer for the Texans, and probably for the Seahawks too.

As far as I am concerned, it comes down to this -

Bouleware is a much larger upgrade over Brown, then Babin is to Orr.

Enough said, and good job once again Rick Smith.:d:

DBCooper
09-01-2007, 09:54 PM
Before the trade:

"Manning steps up to the line, dances and jiggles and sends a running play right at DE Babin" (on an obvious passing play, of course)

Touchdown!


After the trade:

"Manning steps up to the line, dances and jiggles and Boulware blitzes."

Sack!

Hey Peyton, "Rub some dirt on it!"

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2007, 10:36 PM
worry about everything. Especially shoulders and knees. Those are some snarky joints that are handy to have if you are a football player.



Snarky ... was'nt that Hutch's partner ?


Oakland cut Quentin Moses DE . They picked him in the 3rd round from Georgia ... I'd give him a look .

TEXANRED
09-01-2007, 10:44 PM
I worry about everything. Especially shoulders and knees. Those are some snarky joints that are handy to have if you are a football player.

Check this out:

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=35836



Anybody know same shoulder or different shoulder?

BTW, there is a way to email him in that link.

Don't know if it was the same shoulder but Brees had a problem with one of his shoulders and it worked out OK.

BattleRedToro
09-01-2007, 10:45 PM
Snarky ... was'nt that Hutch's partner ?


Oakland cut Quentin Moses DE . They picked him in the 3rd round from Georgia ... I'd give him a look .

I agree. He was once considered a possible Top 15 pick, before his disappointing senior season. He is supposed to have an explosive first step.

TexansSeminole
09-01-2007, 10:56 PM
FANTASTIC TRADE! You know I am happy about this. Another SEMINOLE. Great player to get at a serious need position. What a deal, Rick.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2007, 10:58 PM
FANTASTIC TRADE! You know I am happy about this. Another SEMINOLE. Great player to get at a serious need position. What a deal, Rick.

lol

You :homer:

TexansSeminole
09-01-2007, 11:06 PM
lol

You :homer:

Yea, I know, but hey its not only that. This guy is a good football player. Just like someone said earlier in this thread he has been misused. I think that was YoungTexanFan, who btw I usually agree with. He can play the line of scrimmage very well. The guy is a freak just like Vinny was saying, very fast for his size and very physical. I've been following this guy for awhile now. It's not like the guy has no coverage abilities. He was a college linebacker so he has been learning the safety position in the NFL (not easy to do). The guy has been beat his share of times but he has made twice as many plays IMO. Getting beat is going to come with the territory. How many guys can you say have made a successful jump from LB (in college) to S (in NFL)? I would call his first couple years in Seattle a success. He is by far the best safety on our team now. BY FAR.

twelvegage
09-01-2007, 11:07 PM
i'm also onboard with this trade. i think as good as babin looked in the preason, he was still expendable. i think this might've saved us a high draft pick too, seeing as this was a pretty big need for us.

texasguy346
09-01-2007, 11:19 PM
Sanders had an injury that pushed him down the draft pecking order...I think he was on the pup the first 6 games of the year...seems everyone was concerned about that injury.....so he slid a bit.

Sanders was the last drafted player to sign that year. He held out long than all the first rounders even.

utahmark
09-02-2007, 12:54 AM
sounds like a good guy. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5102068.html

Malloy
09-02-2007, 04:23 AM
goto graphic section and you will understand the last part. Thought process running faster than typing skills I would say.

I did go read his other posts, interesting in a root-cannal kinda way, and slightly scary :)

Second Honeymoon
09-02-2007, 09:50 AM
Snarky ... was'nt that Hutch's partner ?


Oakland cut Quentin Moses DE . They picked him in the 3rd round from Georgia ... I'd give him a look .

wow. now that is a blown draft pick. basically they take a guy 65th overall and then cut him a few months later.

I would give that guy a look. He must have some injury issues or attitude problems. The guy has a lot of skill and can get after the passer.

BattleRedToro
09-02-2007, 10:10 AM
wow. now that is a blown draft pick. basically they take a guy 65th overall and then cut him a few months later.

I would give that guy a look. He must have some injury issues or attitude problems. The guy has a lot of skill and can get after the passer.

I don't believe it is an injury problem. There has been some talk about him having a lack of motivation. I imagine getting cut probably fixed that.

The1ApplePie
09-02-2007, 11:02 AM
If we could pick up Buster Davis and Moses from wiavers, we will be in good shape.

TexansSeminole
09-02-2007, 11:29 AM
If we could pick up Buster Davis and Moses from wiavers, we will be in good shape.

I have no idea why Buster Davis would be cut. I'm very confused about that one.

Wolf
09-02-2007, 12:29 PM
one note (in my mind at least) is when you don't sign players to ridiculous contracts ...it is easier to trade players for players (I know :captain obvious)

something we didn't and couldn't see with the old regime and we ended up releasing players instead of trading.

even though this wasn't CC's fault...got nothing for sharper and glenn but with FA's we signed ex. Wade (and other names escape me) we couldn't get squat.

Texans Horror
09-02-2007, 12:45 PM
The Texans just got rid of one DE and we're all ready to pick up another? Quentin Moses obviously has at least one or two major issues to work out, and the Texans is not the organization to help him come to terms with those issues. The Texans won't take him cause the Texans don't need him and don't want him.

beerlover
09-02-2007, 12:50 PM
something we didn't and couldn't see with the old regime and we ended up releasing players instead of trading.

even though this wasn't CC's fault...got nothing for sharper and glenn but with FA's we signed ex. Wade (and other names escape me) we couldn't get squat.

actually that is CC's fault, he is responsible for personel 02-05 1/2. his biggest lay to claim was on the way out, we all know he got nothing in return for DC plus had to pay full bore & never drafted a true franchise RB, QB or LT. to me thats three strikes & your out :bat:

BattleRedToro
09-02-2007, 12:55 PM
one note (in my mind at least) is when you don't sign players to ridiculous contracts ...it is easier to trade players for players (I know :captain obvious)

something we didn't and couldn't see with the old regime and we ended up releasing players instead of trading.

even though this wasn't CC's fault...got nothing for sharper and glenn but with FA's we signed ex. Wade (and other names escape me) we couldn't get squat.

Dan Ferens is another person that doesn't get enough blame when people refer to the contracts of the Free Agents signed by the Texans. He held the position of Vice President of Administration, was the team's chief contract negotiator, and salary cap expert.

Wolf
09-02-2007, 12:56 PM
Dan Ferens is another person that doesn't get enough blame when people refer to the contracts of the Free Agents signed by the Texans. He held the position of Vice President of Administration, was the team's chief contract negotiator, and salary cap expert.

very true

Wolf
09-02-2007, 12:59 PM
actually that is CC's fault, he is responsible for personel 02-05 1/2. his biggest lay to claim was on the way out, we all know he got nothing in return for DC plus had to pay full bore & never drafted a true franchise RB, QB or LT. to me thats three strikes & your out :bat:

I see that, I was thinking expansion draft on CC's fault as far as contracts ..at the time, I thought it was a good draft with what we did with Glenn,Coleman,Sharper,Payne,Walker, solid players for a new team

Wolf
09-02-2007, 01:12 PM
tidbits around the net

oct 1 he had a concusion against the bears and did not return.

The contract second-round draft choice Michael Boulware signed Tuesday includes a $1.3 million signing bonus as part of a five-year, $3.225 million package that will become a four-year, $2.68 million deal if the he achieves playing incentives in any of the first four seasons.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/184057_hawk29.html?searchpagefrom=1&searchdiff=5

Reaction of Michael Boulware's agent
Posted by Frank Hughes @ 12:29:46 pm

I spoke with Roosevelt Barnes, the agent for Michael Boulware, who said that Boulware was very happy with the deal that sent him to the Texans for Jason Babin. He said that Boulware could see that with all the money that the Hawks spent on Deon Grant and Brian Russell in the offseason that his time was going to be limited, and that Tim Ruskell was kind enough to deal him to a place where his career could continue and he could see some playing time. With injuries to many of the Texans' defensive backs, Boulware should be able to contribute immediately. "It's a win-win trade for both sides," Barnes said. I also asked Barnes if Boulware's "hamstring injury" was a smokescreen because the deal was in the works, and he said it was a legit injury but that he will be ready for the opener.



http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/seahawks?title=salary_notes_and_a_front_office_dep artur&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Leahmic223
09-02-2007, 01:16 PM
actually that is CC's fault, he is responsible for personel 02-05 1/2. his biggest lay to claim was on the way out, we all know he got nothing in return for DC plus had to pay full bore & never drafted a true franchise RB, QB or LT. to me thats three strikes & your out :bat:


I think Domanick Davis was our franchise back. I mean he was a pretty good back considering what he ran behind, its just a shame he couldn't survive through it. I know I am not the only Texan fan that felt Domanick and Andre were our only bright spots in those days. I think if you were to put a healthy Domanick in Kubiak's system, you can turn a 1,000 yard rusher into a even better back than he was.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-02-2007, 01:49 PM
If we could pick up Buster Davis and Moses from wiavers, we will be in good shape.


Moses was claimed by the Cardinals.

Goldensilence
09-02-2007, 01:54 PM
Good trade i think. I think a change of scenery and a fresh start with new teams will do wonders to both players careers. I know it wasn't Jason's fault the situation he was placed in draft wise so i hope him the best in Seattle.....unless he plays us.

I'd also like to add how juvenile and stupid it looks when people add how nice it is to not have it linked to the broncos and packers.

Wolf
09-02-2007, 02:04 PM
interesting article

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003493940_hawkside25b.html

"I didn't get deep enough," Boulware said.

That was it. Five words that brought out the most emotion the normally stoic Boulware ever displayed in public.

What more could he say? In his first Sunday back in the starting lineup, in an important game, in a disappointing season, Boulware made quite possibly the worst play of his football career in the worst possible moment.

"I did a poor job playing that play," Boulware said.

Boulware has never faced a situation quite like the one he's in this season. You could argue that Boulware won four games by himself for the Seahawks during his rookie season in 2004 — late interceptions against Minnesota and Tampa Bay, an interception return for a touchdown against Miami and a game-saving tackle on a kickoff against New Orleans.

Last season didn't hold quite the same buzz. Coach Mike Holmgren didn't start news conferences like those in Boulware's rookie season — with "Thank goodness for Michael Boulware."

And then came this season. Boulware's benching that he took without complaints. And later his return to the starting lineup against the Chargers in a game that really mattered. Dating to high school, college, his early pro career — this is different, Boulware struggling. This is hard.


I am not sure if anyone posted this through the threads

BattleRedToro
09-02-2007, 02:15 PM
Moses was claimed by the Cardinals.

What are the rules regarding the waivers process? What happens when 2 or more teams want the same player? Who gets to pick him up?

Vinny
09-02-2007, 02:19 PM
What are the rules regarding the waivers process? What happens when 2 or more teams want the same player? Who gets to pick him up?
inverse order of the draft till week 3 then they go by current record is what I think it is.

The Pencil Neck
09-02-2007, 02:20 PM
inverse order of the draft till week 3 then they go by current record is what I think it is.

Inverse? I thought it was the same order as the draft. That's why the Texans got 1st pick off waiver wire last year.

the wonger need food
09-02-2007, 02:58 PM
If we could pick up Buster Davis and Moses from wiavers, we will be in good shape.


Man I'm glad you're not in the front office....

Texans_Chick
09-02-2007, 03:28 PM
One Seahawk fan's view of their secondary situation:

http://mvn.com/nfl-seahawks/2007/08/06/a-look-at-the-seahawk-secondary/

Strengths: It starts at the top, with new secondary coach Jim Mora Jr. The younger Mora was a defensive backs coach before his tenure as the head man in Atlanta, and he brings some serious experience and knowledge to the Seattle sideline. His objective will be to take an inconsistent unit and shape it into a heads-up, assignment-correct one. Signing Grant and Russell, two safeties known for their heady play, to replace Hamlin and Boulware, two safeties who have never been accused of being heady in their entire careers, should help matters.

(It’s here that I’d like to point you to a counterpoint, since we’re all about reasonable debate here at The Power of 12… the folks at Field Gulls feel that making Russell the starting strong safety over Boulware is a mistake. Here’s their case. I’d like to respectfully disagree – I decided I’d had just about had my fill of Boulware’s erratic play last season. He cost us the San Diego game, damn near cost us the game at St. Louis, and was merely a spectator on two long TD passes against Minnesota in a loss. It’s time for a change. On the other hand, I think Boulware stands to gain a great deal learning from Russell’s intelligence and in-game decision making, meaning he’ll get better when he is on the field.)


So from our perspective, we are getting a player who needs to get smarter, though had nice seasons in 2004-2005. And the Seahawks are hoping their new SS is an upgrade.

From everything I've read, he seems to be the sort of hard working, taping watching, eager to learn guy that the Texans like. And he has the Southern thing going for him. And he is getting a fresh start.

BattleRedToro
09-02-2007, 03:44 PM
Man I'm glad you're not in the front office....

Your sentiments are noted for posterity's sake. So now if they have long illustrious careers you will look like an http://www.tailored.com.au/uploaded_images/ass-758565.jpg

beerlover
09-02-2007, 05:45 PM
I think Domanick Davis was our franchise back.

my intention was not to hijack this thread but Reggie Bush is more of your ideal franchise back not some 4th rd. pick with a history of injury problems. another classic example of one CC passed on was Clinton Portis, then he had the birght idea that Tony Hollings was going to be the Texans feature back :lightbulb:

lets get back to Boulware. compare the Phillip Buchanon trade, refresh my memory, CC gave up a 2nd & a 3rd rd pick right? thats almost as much as Rick Smith traded to get Matt Schaub, now our franchise QB. he played, lets see a season & half then released. add that to the CC's trade down for Babin in 04, a 2nd, 3rd & 4th (swapped) how did that work out?

how many teams where lining up to give the Texans a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th rd pick for Babin? I'll split the difference & say he was probably worth a mid 3rd pick. now lets look at starting Safety position around the league, who is available & how much is that going to cost your as oppossed to a situational, marginally average, undersized DE? lets see the Lions are now looking for a Safety since Daniel Bullocks tore his acl & of course NE will be without Harrison four games due to using a banned substance, no I'd have to say the market for starting quality safetys to be quite tight, not to mention a huge need for the Texans.

oh yeah (Wolf) if you still want Glenn I believe the Cowboys have cut him (I would still be interested in him as a postional coach for the secondary).

Wolf
09-02-2007, 05:49 PM
oh yeah (Wolf) if you still want Glenn I believe the Cowboys have cut him (I would still be interested in him as a postional coach for the secondary).

no not Glenn, That bus has left. I liked Glenn when he played here, but after a few years later, I don't think so

JohnsonFan
09-02-2007, 06:34 PM
man i cant wait to seen boulware mess someone up while wearing a texans jersey!!

The1ApplePie
09-02-2007, 08:15 PM
Man I'm glad you're not in the front office....

Yeah, because picking up a 3rd rounder this year for free is bad. Kind of like replacing the pass rush specialist we lost with another pass rush specialist would be bad.

Aren't you the same dude that thinks Lundy is a better player than Reggie Bush?

the wonger need food
09-02-2007, 08:57 PM
Yeah, because picking up a 3rd rounder this year for free is bad. Kind of like replacing the pass rush specialist we lost with another pass rush specialist would be bad.

Aren't you the same dude that thinks Lundy is a better player than Reggie Bush?


Aren't you the guy that thinks he knows more than Rick Smith?

Arizona has the worst LB corp in the league, they've lost some of those guys to injury and Buster still got cut. It's not hard to do the math on this one.

Lundy was a better RB than Reggie Bush last year. Go look at the stats. Reggie was a better scatback/WR, no doubt about that.

JohnsonFan
09-02-2007, 09:07 PM
Aren't you the guy that thinks he knows more than Rick Smith?

Arizona has the worst LB corp in the league, they've lost some of those guys to injury and Buster still got cut. It's not hard to do the math on this one.

Lundy was a better RB than Reggie Bush last year. Go look at the stats. Reggie was a better scatback/WR, no doubt about that. lol yea man! that was my argument i started the thread and proved that he was actaully better than bush! lol thanks for the rep!

brakos82
09-02-2007, 11:14 PM
I wonder what the Seahawk fans in Seattle will think when I head over there in November when we have a better record than them :fans:

Leahmic223
09-03-2007, 09:38 PM
There is a new interview with Boulware just talking about his current situation...

It was hard to understand what he was saying since the reporters decided to interview him before he could catch his breath...

MissouriTexan
09-03-2007, 11:10 PM
There is a new interview with Boulware just talking about his current situation...

It was hard to understand what he was saying since the reporters decided to interview him before he could catch his breath...

Traaaaaanscriiiiipppppppt.